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Mary Todd Lincoln

She was pretty ugly, wasn't she?

Couldn't Abe have done better?

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by Anonymousreply 13909/15/2020

Mary had money and social connections which Lincoln needed.

by Anonymousreply 109/13/2020

Lincoln wasn't very handsome himself--let's face it.

by Anonymousreply 209/13/2020

Robert Todd Lincoln was a hottie.

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by Anonymousreply 309/13/2020

She had an intoxicating vajayjay

by Anonymousreply 409/13/2020

George Washington also married for money.

by Anonymousreply 509/13/2020

I would have eaten Honest Abe's ass.

by Anonymousreply 609/13/2020

Lincoln was even less attractive, which probably played a big role in making him such a decent person and great leader.

by Anonymousreply 709/13/2020

R2 You're right. And he wore that ugly Islamic beard.

I hate it.

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by Anonymousreply 809/13/2020

That dress looks like a cake.

by Anonymousreply 909/13/2020

Sally Field had to get prettier to play her though.

by Anonymousreply 1009/13/2020

Wasn't she like 4'3"?

by Anonymousreply 1109/13/2020

Nice women didn’t wear much makeup back then. That was for saloon girls and actresses (ie, whores)

So, Ms. Lincoln looked pretty much like everyone else in their circle - drab and aged before their time. Often with treacherous eyebrows.

by Anonymousreply 1209/13/2020

R9 She is wearing a crinoline.

Ladies who wear crinolines are warning potential suitors that they must be rich enough to afford wide double doors in order to woo them.

by Anonymousreply 1309/13/2020

she vas not hot piece of ass like current first lady

by Anonymousreply 1409/13/2020

Don't be jelly.

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by Anonymousreply 1509/13/2020

This other lady from 1861 has better bone structure - but she also looks like she’d slit your throat while you slept.

So maybe Mary wasn’t so bad.

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by Anonymousreply 1609/13/2020

Lincoln looks like he had a long but skinny dick. You know the type.

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by Anonymousreply 1709/13/2020

Another 1861 angel of death.

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by Anonymousreply 1809/13/2020

Mary flew into a jealous rage if another woman got near Abe. He must have been packing.

by Anonymousreply 1909/13/2020

“Someone please save me from this century...!”

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by Anonymousreply 2009/13/2020

Lewis Powell was a babe. hanged for conspiring to killing the president.

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by Anonymousreply 2109/13/2020

Another 1861 angel of death.

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by Anonymousreply 2209/13/2020

Jesus, how did procreation occur?

Everyone looks miserable.

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by Anonymousreply 2309/13/2020

R23, that's precisely the look of a woman who's procreated too much

by Anonymousreply 2409/13/2020

Mary was quite the spendthrift!

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by Anonymousreply 2509/13/2020

[quote] That dress looks like a cake.

She looks like a tres leches First Communion cake.

by Anonymousreply 2609/13/2020

Sally lost the Oscar to AnnE. That must have stung.

by Anonymousreply 2709/13/2020

Although not conventionally handsome, Abe had a countenance that was both very warm and kind, yet steadfast and dignified. That's almost better than being conventionally attractive because you're seeing the person's inner qualities show through.

by Anonymousreply 2809/13/2020

R12 You say nice women didn’t wear much makeup back then.

But they wore an excess of dust-collecting bric-a-brac on their bonnet and bodice. Now just what is that cascade of fake flowers down her dress? Is it wired, dyed cloth?

by Anonymousreply 2909/13/2020

You had to stay very still for quite some time to be photographed back then.

It was much easier not to have to hold a smile which is why everyone looks so miserable in those photos.

by Anonymousreply 3009/13/2020

With - from my perspective, at least - the unattractive John Wilkes Booth somehow considered the most handsome man of his era, I think it folly to judge someone’s mid-19th appearance by modern day sensibilities.

by Anonymousreply 3109/13/2020

Lincoln often told this story: "I was once accosted ... by a stranger who said `Excuse me, sir, but I have an article in my possession which belongs to you.' `How is that?' I asked, considerably astonished. The stranger took a jackknife from his pocket. `This knife,' said he, `was placed in my hands some years ago, with the injunction that I was to keep it until I found a man uglier than myself. Allow me now to say, sir, that I think you are fairly entitled to the property.' "

Also, it's said that Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, frustrated with Lincoln, exclaimed "We've got to get rid of that baboon in the White House." Lincoln was told of the insult and responded: "Insult? insult? That is no insult. It is an expression of opinion. And what troubles me most about it is the fact that Stanton said it, and Stanton is usually right."

A sad story from Lincoln's adolescence:

Polly Richardson knew Lincoln in Indiana, where he lived from ages 7 to 21. Her recollection of those years is heart-breaking. It paints Lincoln as the target of unceasing barbs from girls, based on his appearance:

Yes, I was Abe's first sweetheart. He'd take me to spelling bees and play parties and to meetin' and the like, but still I can't say that I wanted him to go with me though.

Still Abe was always mighty good, and I never found any fault with him excepting he was so tall and awkward.

All the young girls my age made fun of Abe. They'd laugh at him right before his face, but Abe never `peared to care. He was so good and he'd just laugh with them.

Abe tried to go with some of them, but no sir-ee, they'd give him the mitten every time, just because he was so tall and gawky, and it was mighty awkward I can tell you trying to keep company with a fellow as tall as Abe was. But still Abe was always so good and kind I never sacked him, but bein's I didn't have no other company them days when us young folks would all start to meetin' ... I'd let Abe take me.

I'd sometime get right put out the way some of the girls treated him, a laughing and saying things, and so when we'd get off to ourselves I'd give them a piece of my mind about it. And then they'd all say that it is too bad the way we do, because Abe's so good, but they'd appear to forget all about it, for the very next time they'd do the same way. Abe wanted me to marry him, but I refused. I suppose if I had known he was to be President some day, I'd a took him.

by Anonymousreply 3209/13/2020

Love is blind.

by Anonymousreply 3309/13/2020

[quote] give him the mitten

This should become DL parlance rejecting someone.

by Anonymousreply 3409/13/2020

[quote]just what is that cascade of fake flowers down her dress? Is it wired, dyed cloth?

I would guess it is! Maybe silk flowers sewn onto ribbon, that’s then loosely tacked onto the dress so it can be snipped off when the skirt and bodice are cleaned.

Although it could also be a special floral arrangement, sort of a real flower sash, that was made just for the day that portrait was done, and pinned into place?

That was an inauguration portrait.

by Anonymousreply 3509/13/2020

R11 MTL was 5'2".

by Anonymousreply 3609/13/2020

People in the 19th century were butt ugly. That’s why there were so many wars — they kept the population of ugliness under control.

by Anonymousreply 3709/13/2020

She looks like W.C. Fields. Maybe she was hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 3809/13/2020

She reminds me of former US Attorney Barbara McQuade.

Except I cannot imagine our Barb in a crinoline. A nice, sensible sprigged lawn in pale blue or yellow would suit her.

by Anonymousreply 3909/13/2020

Her eyebrows were bomb

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by Anonymousreply 4009/13/2020

This is from Time magazine (2012)


[italic]Mary Lincoln had a privileged upbringing that primed her to lead the life of the President’s wife. While her husband was presiding over the Civil War, slavery issues, and massive national reconfigurations, Mary was ensuring that the 16th Presidential administration and the White House reflected a confident, progressing nation.

Though only roughly 5 feet tall, she dressed in opulent, bold dresses that were known to cost up to $2,000 each. Many of her dresses were low-cut and emulated popular European styles, particularly that of Empress Eugénie of France. Her personal seamstress Elizabeth Keckley tailored each gown to her specifications and designed many of her flower-topped headdresses.

Mary Lincoln liked to wear ball gowns with very long trains but also without shoulders and President Lincoln once remarked that he thought she needed “a little less tail and little more neck” instead. She was also known for wearing elaborate head-dresses of multiple roses, and in a letter to his wife, one Senator described Mrs. Lincoln critically, as wearing a “flower-pot” on her head.

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by Anonymousreply 4109/13/2020

You mean “on fleek” r40

by Anonymousreply 4209/13/2020

Mary's chicken leg tea service. One of the many "flub-dubs' Lincoln accused her of wasting money on.

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by Anonymousreply 4309/13/2020

That is something from an acid trip.

by Anonymousreply 4409/13/2020

|bvcxaJohn Wilkes Booth was very handsome, but he never made it big as an actor. His brother Edwin Booth because a big theater star, even though he wasn't nearly as good-looking.

Edwin's career survived the scandal of having his brother assassinate the president of the US, something that wouldn't happen today. Back then, the public decided that he'd had nothing to do with his brother's batshittery, and still paid to see him act.

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by Anonymousreply 4509/13/2020

^ He was great in Young Frankenstein. Not handsome - dude looks like Gene Tierney.

by Anonymousreply 4609/13/2020

She was one hot bitch

by Anonymousreply 4709/13/2020

R8, as opposed to a Jewish or Amish or Hipster beard, eh?

You sound like a moron.

by Anonymousreply 4809/13/2020

She was great at pegging.

by Anonymousreply 4909/13/2020

He had sex with the boyfriends.

by Anonymousreply 5009/13/2020

R48 OMG! You've prompted me to google Amish beards! So creepy and unnatural!

Jewish beards are natural.

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by Anonymousreply 5109/14/2020

I heard Lincoln was ugly because he was kicked in the head by a horse. Ever wonder how handsome he’d look with symmetry in his face? This handsome!

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by Anonymousreply 5209/14/2020

OP= Donald Trump

by Anonymousreply 5309/14/2020

Steven wanted me to play her in his film. I am and are regarded as the greatest actress that ever lived but even I can't play ugly. I suggested Sally. She was wonderful in the film.

by Anonymousreply 5409/14/2020

My husband’s family is related to the Todds. They tease me SIL because she bears a resemblance to MTL. (She’s also neurotic).

by Anonymousreply 5509/14/2020

When Kathy Bates was younger she should've played Mary Todd Lincoln in a biopic, she would have been perfect. A shame no one thought of doing that around 20 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 5609/14/2020

What did I get out of this brief history lesson.?

Some old tall dude with a short wife may have died. But, the two guys who might have done it were really YUM!!!

by Anonymousreply 5709/14/2020

I was attached to play Mary Lincoln in the early development stages of the film. Once Steven Spielberg boarded the production I was sacked.

by Anonymousreply 5809/14/2020

[quote]This knife,' said he, `was placed in my hands some years ago, with the injunction that I was to keep it until I found a man uglier than myself. Allow me now to say, sir, that I think you are fairly entitled to the property.' "

I would have gladly taken that knife and cut that bitch!

by Anonymousreply 5909/14/2020

[quote]I would have eaten Honest Abe's ass.

You wouldn't have wanted to eat anybody's ass back in those days. Think of hygiene standards in the 1800s. Ugh.

by Anonymousreply 6009/14/2020

Wow r18. Imagine wearing a dress like that when you REALLY had to take a dump. Like, right NOW. Must've been a lot of messy accidents in those days.

by Anonymousreply 6109/14/2020

I think Abe was kind of hot

by Anonymousreply 6209/14/2020

I would KILL for that dress.

by Anonymousreply 6309/14/2020

R52 are you blind? Even when symmetrical he's still not a handsome guy.

And the notion that his appearance was because of being kicked in the head is silly. His appearance was due to genetics, just like everybody else.

by Anonymousreply 6409/14/2020

R64 Geez, I was obviously kidding! Symmetrical Lincoln is a dead-ringer for Cornelius from “Planet Of the Apes.”

by Anonymousreply 6509/14/2020

It took quite a long time to take an exposure on a wet plate, and it's hard to keep your face frozen in a smile for that long. it's much simpler instead to have your face in repose when the exposure is so long. That's why everyone from back then looks depressed in their photos.

In truth, they were laughing and smiling as much as we did--whooping it up over rum punch and telling naughty jokes about crinolines and hoop skirts.

by Anonymousreply 6609/14/2020

R60, but if you were horny enough, you would've taken Abe's log inside of your cabin.

by Anonymousreply 6709/14/2020

Girlfriend was crazy.

by Anonymousreply 6809/14/2020

This is the MTL I want to see.

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by Anonymousreply 6909/14/2020

R69, I'd love to see Gwyenth Paltrow getting her head blown off at Ford's Theater

by Anonymousreply 7009/14/2020

Sally Field probably would have won a third Oscar for "Lincoln" had she just done something with the scene where she breaks down over Willie's death. Spielberg must have been intimidated by her because she's so terrific in the rest of the film, but in that scene she just relies on old tricks she did for the crazy scenes in "Sybil"--the grunting, the falling down, the low gutteral voice--and it's embarrassing because it seems like shtick. But everything in the rest of the film is freshly thought out, and her performance is terrific.

Mary Tyler Moore did a superb job as Mary Todd Lincoln in the network miniseries "Gore Vidal's Lincoln" back in the early 80s, even though she looked nothing like her.

by Anonymousreply 7109/14/2020

Mary Todd Lincoln will always be a great part for actresses. From what we know, she was the most emotionally complex of the women who have been First Lady, and also probably the unhappiest.

by Anonymousreply 7209/14/2020

And remember, Abe preferred men.

by Anonymousreply 7309/14/2020


by Anonymousreply 7409/14/2020


by Anonymousreply 7509/14/2020

[quote] Some old tall dude with a short wife may have died. But, the two guys who might have done it were really YUM!!!

DL in a nutshell

by Anonymousreply 7609/14/2020

Larry Kramer, we thought you had died.

by Anonymousreply 7709/14/2020

Britney Spears should do a one woman MTL show, I think she’s had the life experiences that would bring gravitas to the production.

by Anonymousreply 7809/14/2020

I love threads like this, and the Henry VIII thread. A great distraction from politics and what’s going on right now.

by Anonymousreply 7909/14/2020

She had her own white almond cake recipe.

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by Anonymousreply 8009/14/2020

[quote]R71 Mary Tyler Moore did a superb job as Mary Todd Lincoln in the network miniseries

Buck never would have relied on Sally’s tired old shtick.

by Anonymousreply 8109/14/2020

[quote]She had her own white almond cake recipe.

It was no Mamie Eisenhower Million-Dollar Fudge.

by Anonymousreply 8209/14/2020

Pish posh! No president was as satisfied as my Ike when he was eating my Deep Dish Pie and lapping up my sweet, creamy Prune Whip!

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by Anonymousreply 8309/14/2020

OP = Joshua Speed

by Anonymousreply 8409/14/2020

No one named a snack cake after her.

by Anonymousreply 8509/14/2020

I follow some Civil War re-enactors and historical costume makers who attend balls wearing their costumes. Here’s what I learned:

Women then had their clothes held together by straight pins. If they wore an apron, it tied around the waist and the top part was pinned to the bodice by straight pins. MTL’s flowers were probably attached to a sash, then the sash was pinned to her dress with straight pins. They didn’t use snaps and a lot of the closures we use now. Sometimes they closed clothing with pins, not buttons.

Those 1860s dresses were often two piece. When you see a dress with a bodice that comes to a point in front, that’s often a matching skirt and shirt.

Ladies’ underwear had no crotch in that era. It was overlapped and crossover-wrapped, like a Diane von Furstenberg wrap dress. They wore a garter belt to attach handmade sanitary napkins made out of layered fabric scraps. If they had to go to the bathroom, they moved their underwear to the sides. They didn’t have to take it down.

Corsets weren’t really there to give you a 13” waist like Scarlett O’Hara in GWTW. It was more like a longline bra. Women didn’t always tie them tightly and they often could be fastened from the front so the woman could dress herself. You didn’t need someone to put her foot in the middle of your back and pull, like in the movies. The corsets were so stiff, it made everything smooth looking, tight or not.

by Anonymousreply 8609/14/2020

[quote] If they had to go to the bathroom


by Anonymousreply 8709/14/2020

[quote]No one named a snack cake after her.

OK, but Abe's oral skills made my pussy as moist as a snack cake.

by Anonymousreply 8809/14/2020

Thank you R86 for putting the image of Mary Todd’s bloody fabric scraps into my head.

by Anonymousreply 8909/14/2020

When I see pictures of people from the 1800s I think how miserable it would be to wear the clothing of the period. Imagine wearing these outfits in the dead heat of summer with no A/C. Jesus fuck I would've wanted to kill myself.

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by Anonymousreply 9009/14/2020

At least she didn’t look (and act) like an Eastern European whore

by Anonymousreply 9109/14/2020

r91 not everyfuckingthing is about Trump.

by Anonymousreply 9209/14/2020

I'm aroused by your post R86. Nice work.

by Anonymousreply 9309/14/2020

Hey! At least Mary kept her clothes on.

by Anonymousreply 9409/14/2020

Mary Todd was more than wealthy with prominent social connections. Her father gave her a good education but his remarriage when her mother died when she was six left her miserable, as her stepmother was divisive to the first six children and had nine of her own. She didn't receive anything from her father until after Mary married Abe and had Robert.

Plus, she developed and stimulated those connections through her own personality. She was intelligent, well-informed, charming, funny, engaging and serious. Stephen Douglas proposed and she was sought after by a grandson of Patrick Henry and another Springfield legislator.

She suffered from migraines and was "high-strung," but her psychological issues did not start in earnest until later. The death of their son, Eddie, left her depressed for a long time, and the death of Willy in the White House added to her stresses and depression - she came close to being institutionalizing. She was reviled as a Southern sympathizer (her half-siblings uniformly were with the Confederacy, with two brothers dying while fighting for the South in the war, as did a brother-in-law). She was alternately a spendthrift (hundreds of pairs of gloves in two months, secret deals and debts for extravagances she hid from Lincoln) and a penny pincher. Lincoln's death sent her over the edge and she never really came back. She just got worse, wandering Europe with Taddy.

When Tad died and paranoid delusions came into plain view, Robert had her tried for insanity and placed in a sanitarium for several months. In the few years she had left, she was a recluse in her sister's house in Springfield, not seen or heard from.

She appeared to have diabetes, likely overused calmatives/sedatives, and had problems with her reproductive system after her last child that appears to have ended her sex life. But more than anything, two conditions are now suspected to have been at the root of her problems. She probably suffered from pernicious anemia for decades, and she probably suffered from syphilis, a lasting remembrance of Lincoln's pre-marriage life. Her autopsy revealed a brain tumor, as well.

Be kind about Mary. Few people suffered so, and her appearance reflected it. But she had many reasons behind her suffering, additional to holding Lincoln's hand the moment he was shot.

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by Anonymousreply 9509/14/2020

What did MTL think of black people?

by Anonymousreply 9609/14/2020

I thought it was quite telling what she said to Abe right before he was shot.

“You’ll never lay another hand on me again you no good son of a bitch!”

by Anonymousreply 9709/14/2020

No one ever took a shot at Mary in the balcony.

by Anonymousreply 9809/14/2020

[quote] Lincoln looks like he had a long but skinny dick. You know the type.

Yes I doo.

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by Anonymousreply 9909/14/2020

When Betty Ford revealed she was in recovery from alcoholism, Dan Aykroyd did a very funny commentary on "Weekend Update" on SNL about other First Ladies who were alcoholics.

In those days it had been pretty much publicly unthinkable that a First Lady would admit to being an alcoholic, so the piece went on and on with basically all of the First Ladies of the twentieth century being drunks. It ended with Aykroyd saying that back in the day, Mary Todd Lincoln would get completely tanked up at state dinners, and would jump up to the table "and, lifting her crinolines, would soil the punch bowl, all the while exclaiming, 'Look at me, look at me, Abe: you could never give me what I really wanted.'"

by Anonymousreply 10009/14/2020

I enjoyed your post, R86.

I've noticed that even desperately poor women like this goldfields shopkeeper still followed the fashion for hoop skirts and crinolines—

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by Anonymousreply 10109/14/2020

R86 posts are great. Beautifully written, informative and emotionally evocative. I'm a fan. Thanks again.

by Anonymousreply 10209/14/2020

If you want to see accurate reproduction Victorian and Edwardian clothing, including the underwear, check out the YouTube accounts of Karolina Zebrowska and Bernadette Banner.

Karolina Zebrowska is a dress historian and owns complete outfits of Regency, Victorian and Edwardian clothing. She does a good job of explaining what’s accurate and why it’s made as it is.

by Anonymousreply 10309/14/2020


by Anonymousreply 10409/14/2020

[quote]....if they had to go to the bathroom?


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by Anonymousreply 10509/14/2020

Wait, so Lincoln might have been syphilitic? How long could you suffer from it? If he hadn’t been assassinated, he might have died from syphilis. Ew.

by Anonymousreply 10609/14/2020

R45, I'd like to see one photo of Booth that even hints at his reputed handsomeness. I'm with R46; your pic ain't it.

by Anonymousreply 10709/15/2020

All my co-conspirators tell me that I'm not very photogenic.

by Anonymousreply 10809/15/2020

Now, in weak-chinned, receding hairline glory, is a real example of presidential assassin pulchritude.

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by Anonymousreply 10909/15/2020

Here you go.

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by Anonymousreply 11009/15/2020

R45 is Edwin Booth, not John. Edwin was his older brother.

The link has an interesting story about Edwin. His father was an alcoholic actor. When his father went on tour, his mother sent 12 year old Edwin to try to keep his father from going off the deep end. Edwin spent seven years as his father’s minder. When his father died of cholera, Edwin came home, only to be thrown out of the house by his mother because his father died alone. Edwin lived a sad life. His first wife died, he had an unhappy marriage with his second wife.

The bedroom picture is Edwin’s bedroom as it was in 1893, when he died. It’s been preserved.

Edwin voted once, for Abraham Lincoln.

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by Anonymousreply 11109/15/2020

If you want a fictional take on Abe and Mary (and Joshua Speed), I recommend the novel COURTING MR. LINCOLN by Louis Bayard. It's about Abe's conflict between his affection (or maybe more) for Speed and his need to marry to bolster his political ambitions. It's beautifully written and quite moving.

by Anonymousreply 11209/15/2020

R110, I’m still waiting.

by Anonymousreply 11309/15/2020

Joshua Speed was an insatiable bottom

by Anonymousreply 11409/15/2020

Mary Todd was Abraham Lincoln’s faghag

And she was cray-cray

by Anonymousreply 11509/15/2020

That's why they called Abe "Lincoln Log" at the baths, because of his foot long meatstick.

by Anonymousreply 11609/15/2020

The mustache did wonders. But yeah, J.W.B. really wasn't a great-looking guy. Oftentimes, a historical figure will be portrayed as better-looking than they were it makes for more interesting history.

If you look closely at pics of Jackie Kennedy and imagine her without the fancy clothes and hair, she was also pretty homely.

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by Anonymousreply 11709/15/2020

I like to think Mary could deliver a solid kick to the cunt bone.

by Anonymousreply 11809/15/2020

She's my auntie (great, great)

by Anonymousreply 11909/15/2020

I've read that John Wilkes Booth had a great smile that lit up the room.

by Anonymousreply 12009/15/2020

Henry James Montague (1843-1878) is an example of a 19th century actor who would pass muster today. He's mentioned in Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence. He appeared on Broadway in The Shaughraun by Irish playwright Dion Boucicault.

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by Anonymousreply 12109/15/2020

H.H. Holmes was hot. Too bad about that pesky little serial killing problem he had though!

by Anonymousreply 12209/15/2020

[quote][R45] is Edwin Booth, not John. Edwin was his older brother.

John was the brother that could sing. That’s how you keep them straight.

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by Anonymousreply 12309/15/2020

All this time I thought we were posting about Mary Toad Lincoln.


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by Anonymousreply 12409/15/2020

[quote] Too bad about that pesky little serial killing problem he had though!

I mean, really.

One may be socially acceptable but multiple victims? It's too gauche.

by Anonymousreply 12509/15/2020

Edwin Booth with his brothers in a famous photo. Junius Jr. is the third man.

Edwin once saved Robert Lincoln. This occurred between late 1863 and early 1865. In Robert's own words:

[quote]The incident occurred while a group of passengers were late at night purchasing their sleeping car places from the conductor who stood on the station platform at the entrance of the car. The platform was about the height of the car floor, and there was of course a narrow space between the platform and the car body. There was some crowding, and I happened to be pressed by it against the car body while waiting my turn. In this situation the train began to move, and by the motion I was twisted off my feet, and had dropped somewhat, with feet downward, into the open space, and was personally helpless, when my coat collar was vigorously seized and I was quickly pulled up and out to a secure footing on the platform. Upon turning to thank my rescuer I saw it was Edwin Booth, whose face was of course well known to me, and I expressed my gratitude to him, and in doing so, called him by name.

Edwin was a staunch supporter of Lincoln.

Robert Todd Lincoln also was present at and a witness of the shooting of Garfield, and also was present when McKinley was shot. He always blamed himself for not going to the theater with his parents, because he would have been seated in the back of the box, closest to the door, and felt he could have prevented the assassination. Robert was "cursed" in this way. His wife was an alcoholic and psychologically distressed, as well.

John Hay, one of Lincoln's private secretaries, is my favorite. He looked gay, lived straight, had an eminent career, and was a poet. I have a copy of his work - he should have stayed unmarried and run an antique shop. Here he is.

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by Anonymousreply 12609/15/2020

John Hay's most "available" photo.

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by Anonymousreply 12709/15/2020

I can see a little bit of Mindy Cohn in Mary Todd

by Anonymousreply 12809/15/2020

R128, Mindy Cohn should've played MTL instead of Sally Field.

by Anonymousreply 12909/15/2020

Yes, it has seemed very possible, if not probable, that Lincoln had syphilis and passed it on to his wife. It has been considered likely that Lincoln would have picked up syphilis from a prostitute, with one trip he took to New Orleans prior to marriage being a possible time for his encounter.

Note, too, though, that Larry Kramer claimed that Lincoln was known to frequent organized all-male "camping" trips, where groups of men would travel and go native together under the guidance of "Dapper Dan from Kansas." Of course Kramer's evidence has not yet turned up, but no one would think that Lincoln was not sexually active. I have research Lincoln's relationship with Joshua Speed without considering Kramer's biases, and the intimacy, shared fear of marriage, emotional breakdowns prior to their marriages, and mutual encouragement on how to get through the ordeal are on the record.

The risk of contracting an STD would have been higher with any sexual contacts with a person having a lot of sex with multiple partners, such as a prostitute. There was no effective treatment for syphilis, sulphur and mercury "cures" notwithstanding.

Syphilis can remain dormant with symptoms never appearing, either overtly or in a hidden manner. However, it is more usual for latency to yield to the tertiary stage, where a host of issues - many life-threatening, life-disrupting or disfiguring - can occur.

Lincoln appears to have remained unaffected, if he did have this STD. Mary's many health problems, physical and mental, are suggestive.

by Anonymousreply 13009/15/2020

[quote]R130 It has been considered likely that Lincoln would have picked up syphilis from a prostitute

Or a pass around bottom.

by Anonymousreply 13109/15/2020

[quote] Or a pass around bottom.

Hello, I'm RIGHT here

by Anonymousreply 13209/15/2020

Who would have won in a fight -- Mary Todd or Miss Joshua Speed?

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by Anonymousreply 13309/15/2020

John Hay vs Joshua Speed

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by Anonymousreply 13409/15/2020

I remember having to write a poem about Abraham Lincoln in elementary school and I was quite proud of myself for rhyming "Booth" with "uncouth." There was also something with Nancy Hanks, but I can't remember what.

by Anonymousreply 13509/15/2020

Mary once told Abe “You cocksucker! You ate all of the godamned porridge!”

by Anonymousreply 13609/15/2020

Fun fact: There are no living descendants of Abe and MTL today because the last one, Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith, had gotten a vasectomy.

Why the hell would you get a vasectomy knowing that you're descended from a historical figure as revered as Lincoln?

by Anonymousreply 13709/15/2020

I would have paid for her electroconvulsive therapy, her antibiotics, her brain surgery, her psychotherapy, grief counseling, hoarding counseling, her wardrobe and her meds just to enjoy one performance of her singing "Rose's Turn" on stage with the lyrics, "Everything's coming up Mary!!!!"

For me.

For Me!


FOR ME!!!!



by Anonymousreply 13809/15/2020

I remember seeing an unsatisfactory mishmash of a movie about all this

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