Reversing Diabetes

Cut carbs, lose weight.

I don't know how close I got to full-blown DMII, but my blood sugar control is great. Even non-fasting it's in good ranges.

And fast: Lunch, then dinner before 7. No breakfast. No snacks.

Intermittent fasting.

Are you a type 2 diabetic R2?

They say taking a supplement of - of all things, cinnamon capsules - also helps a bit.

it's an easy thing to do when you're young, not so much when you're older.

my dad was diagnosed with diabetes as a teenager, but now his levels are normal, because at the time he was advised that if he changed into a healthier diet, he'd be able to keep it in check to the point he'd basically not have diabetes anymore. that did turn him into a heavy smoker tho, which was and still is how he controls his weight. smoking a lot makes him less hungry, so he won't eat between meals and doesn't eat that much during meals. i would've prefered having diabetes tbh.

my mother on the other hand was diagnosed with diabetes a few years ago, and her levels are hard to control. she basically has to eat like she's on a strict weight loss diet in order to have normal blood sugar levels. and this is a woman that loves to eat and snack all the time, so those numbers are always high

Yeah, fasting isn't a good idea to do on your own when you have diagnosed DMII, especially if you're taking Metformin.

A vegan diet will reverse diabetes.

Go vegan.

Your numbers will normalize in a week.

Diabetes is related to the amount of animal fats you eat, not the sugar

[quote]Diabetes is related to the amount of animal fats you eat, not the sugar

Noooooo.....

[quote] ....not so much when you're older.

Nonsense. At 78 I watch my calories. Have removed carbs from my diet. Dropped 40lbs

A1C was pushing 8..

Now its less than 6

R9 You'll just die of boredom instead

[quote] Diabetes is related to the amount of animal fats you eat, not the sugar

FALSE!!!!!

Lose enough weight, it will disappear.

Betcha Celine Dion doesn’t have DMII.

My doctor just ordered a LipoProfile lipid test for me, which measures the sizes of lipid particles (cholesterol, triglycerides) instead of just counting the HDL and LDL, as typical cholesterol tests do. My particles are TINY, putting me in the red zone, at 3x higher risk of a cardiac event than the average person, even though my LDL count is only a little elevated and my HDL:LDL ratio is normal.

The report also says that because of the small particle sizes, I am approaching insulin resistance (!!!), even though my A1C glucose level is low. So I have low blood sugar but I am prediabetic somehow.

Diabetes is CARB-related, not fat.

R2 if I don't each breakfast my sugar drops to the point where I get a headache.

Keto

R16 That is not strictly true.

R16 “In conclusion, the proportion of small, dense LDL particles and changes in this proportion are predictive of changes in intima media thickness and insulin resistance, and are closely associated with other determinants of an adverse metabolic status. Thus, this parameter extends the individual risk assessment beyond the limitations of traditional risk markers in patients with dysglycemia.”

Simple things, like fewer carbs (and snacks) and more vegetables plus not drinking have brought my A1C down from 6.8 to 4.0 and my fasting sugars down to the 110 - 125 level in six months. I’m not sure diet alone can “cure” type 2 diabetes, but it’s sure helped.

Read Wheat Belly and eliminate wheat from your diet. And R9, if that were true, I'd have Type 500 Diabetes because all I eat is animal protein.

An MD who specializes in diabetes said in a radio interview "eliminate all grains." So I can never have a sandwich?

We didn't evolve eating grains.

R24 There’s been a lot of grain eating going on for at least three to four thousand years. The extent varies among cultures, but from Egypt to Western Europe, it’s been a whole lotta grain.

Genetically modified grains that are all saturated in chemical herbicides is a new US creation circa 1995, however.

[quote][R24] There’s been a lot of grain eating going on for at least three to four thousand years.

And if you're a Biblical literalist, that would mean something.

Keto keto keto.

R26 Huh?

Intermittent fasting on a 16-8 schedule, plus I cut out sugary soft drinks and fruit juices.

As a consolation I drink the flavored seltzer water instead.

[quote][R26] Huh?

Homo sapiens became a distinct species about 300,000 years ago. We didn't start eating grains until about 100,000, and didn't start cultivating it ourselves until about 10,000. Biochemically, nature didn't intend for us to start eating in in such quantities.

The problem is the ease of processed carbs. Yes we ate grains long ago but they were whole grains and they were not abundant. Meats were cured for longevity and protein was a rare treat. There was a reason being fat was considered a sign of wealth. There was a study in Thailand I think. Two groups. Wealthy folks and underprivileged. The underprivileged diet consisted of high fat low cost cuts of meats and very little carbs. The wealthy had a higher carb diet (simple and complex). The pooer people had low to no cases of diabetes, obesity and were generally in good health. The richer people had all sorts of health issues, Type 2, overweight, heart problems etc.

R30 OK, so it is a relatively recent but not new dietary change. Still, it’s interesting that bread is a mainstay of Western European diets and Western Europe has lower levels of diabetes than we do in the United States.

All carbohydrates contribute to the development of the disease, but I think the laser focus on wheat alone is misplaced. Food in the US is processed into oblivion and it’s full of added sugar and especially with corn syrup, not to mention that so many American people hydrated primarily with soft drinks—sugar and chemical additives with no nutritional value.

Placing the blame exclusively or almost exclusively on wheat doesn’t make a lot of sense. Singapore has the second highest rate of diabetes in the world and it doesn’t have among the highest levels of wheat consumption. India is the second greatest consumer of wheat after the US, but has only the 76th highest rate of diabetes prevalence.

“In terms of prevalence, Singapore finished a close second to the U.S. (10.5%), followed by Malta (10%), Portugal (10%), and Cyprus (9.5%) in 3rd, 4th, and 5th place respectively. The countries with the lowest estimated prevalence in the 38 nation league were (lowest first), Lithuania, Estonia, and Ireland (all around 4%), followed by Sweden, Luxembourg, the U.K., and Australia (all around 5%). Canada, the host nation for the World Diabetes Congress, has the 12th highest prevalence, at 7%.”

r32 true - I just watched a youtube video on the difference between MC Donalds foods in the UK and US - a big mac, fries and a shake in the UK was a total of 900 calories - in the US it was almost 1600 for the same food.

OP, there is some good stuff in this thread and there is also some garbage. I think the one thing any true diabetic is going to tell you is...

LISTEN TO YOUR ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

I’ve been diabetic since I was four years old. Living in many different homes (growing up in foster care) gave me a crash course on management. I had to constantly meet with my endocrinologist to manage everything, especially when I got a new placement - some families were good at accommodating my needs and some were horrid.

If you’re not in a place to be able to afford that, I really feel for you. Simple things like being at a healthy weight (it doesn’t help to say “lose weight” when we don’t know how much you weigh - some people might need to maintain or gain weight), eating healthy foods, etc. are all helpful.

I’m 28 now, and ever since I graduated from college, I’ve gone to the grocery store weekly to get vegetables and fruits to cut up as snacks (fruits have natural sugars, so watch your sugar intake there too). I am a grazer, so making sure my snacks between meals are healthy are important. I also run daily to burn more calories so I can have my snacks.

Finally, don’t make your family miserable. Be clear that you don’t expect them to always eat what you eat. My husband tried to avoid eating things I wasn’t able to eat when we first started dating. I had to (forcefully) tell him I didn’t mind. He’s happier all around, which lowers my stress and makes managing my condition easier.

R34, sorry to hear about your childhood in foster care. It sounds like you made it through though, and succeeded despite it.

Intermittent fisting helps.

How can some of you not eat for 18 hours. Sounds like torture.

I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes in 2016. I didn't need insulin, but was prescribed Metformin twice a day. I started eating healthier and walking 4 ton 8 miles a day, losing 40 lbs by 2018. Now my blood sugar is normal and I no longer have diabetes or have to take any medication. So, it's simple, lose weight and exercise and you will reverse it.

I followed the Fast 800 Diet to get my blood work numbers (and weight) back down. My doctor was amazed at how quickly it worked. Now I just do the 5/2 diet part of it and it's great.

R34 I love your comments. They are always interesting. No snark intended.

Fasting and intermittent fasting are a fad, and anything sold to you as a program you pay for with "my doctors were amazed!" should be treated as shilling. Fasting is also not advised if you're already on metformin, as others have said above.

Metformin does work. Metformin, cutting out orange juice and Gatorade and cutting down on post-meal desserts reduced my hemoglobin A1c from 5.9 to 5.1 in a few months. I also cut down on all carbs and increased protein and vegetables, and lost 40 lbs without even really trying, though it took a couple of years.

Exercise but be cautious because low blood sugar can strike up to several hours after exercising.

Supplements like berberine are shown to help but it also often causes diarrhea.

I am a type 2 diabetic - and there is some REALLY terrible and dangerous "advice" in this thread which has been posted by people who are not diabetics themselves and not qualified healthcare professionals. Posters just making shit up who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are keen to push their style of preposterous "eating disorders".

OP - the best advice I have for you is to take reputable advice only from qualified medical professionals, diabetes educators/specialists and other diabetics.

Posters like R41, R34, R38, R24, R21 and R16.

Do not pay any attention to the fasters and vegan bullshit. Taking their advice can be life threatening and will result is much worse diabetes health outcomes and damage down the track. Listen to all the reputable advice, do your research and try various things until you work out what works for you.

For me - I am on Metformin (which is a wonder medication for many things but results in significantly lowered testosterone and sex drive in males - so watch for that if male).

I have just joined the CSIRO Total WellBeing lifestyle plan. It is an Australian government scientific research based program specifically designed for type 2 diabetes with scientifically proven results. It teaches you to eat for your condition and make it a lifestyle change which sticks. If interested, here is the link. It costs $199.00 AUD which is refunded to you at the end of the 12 weeks program if you manage to lose at least 1 pound over the 12 weeks. It has excellent real online reviews from thousands of participants. The Australian government have developed this program in an effort to do something about the diabetes epidemic which is sweeping the world. I don't think you have to be located in Australia if you wanted to do it. The CSIRO also have various supporting books which they have made affordable so everyone can buy then. Mostly $20.00 AUD. They are available on Amazon US.

Dr Michael Mosley is also very well respected as has been posted here.

[bold]Carbohydrates[/bold] and [bold]being overweight[/bold] are what you have to watch out for with type 2 diabetes as other posters have mentioned above. Those are the two most important messages I have come away with from all my book and online research.

Good luck and take care of your self.

[quote]Fasting and intermittent fasting are a fad, and anything sold to you as a program you pay for with "my doctors were amazed!" should be treated as shilling. Fasting is also not advised if you're already on metformin, as others have said above.

This is incredibly important information that R41 has posted and should be taken note of. If you're on Metformin - do not fast. R41 knows exactly what he's talking about.

I will reply by saying that 'reversing diabetes' isn't a phrase I can use in my experience. I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic, and was able to arrest the progression towards full-blown Diabetes II with a major overhaul of my diet and my habits.

My PCP was about to prescribe Metformin, but I asked if he would give me a chance to get my A1C readings to a normal range before I added another prescription drug. I had become obese during my years as my parent's primary caregiver, and I had to change course after they died.

First, if you're already taking insulin or any prescription drugs, be sure you're coordinating with your doctor if you're planning any changes. There are a lot of risks involved there.

Anyway, I greatly reduced my carbohydrate intake, and incorporated simple changes (ie. stairs instead of elevators) and largely gave up junk food. I had to commit myself to cooking all my own meals and packing lunch. And I bought a glucose monitor to check my blood sugar readings every day (instead of weighing myself).

It had to become a lifestyle change to 'stick', but my blood sugar readings now stay in the normal range (cholesterol is good, too). I don't check my blood sugar every day now, but a couple of times a week. And, without any real discomfort, I slowly, steadily lost over 100 lbs, even though that was never my goal. I just didn't want to repeat my Dad's progression from diabetes into Alzheimer's disease.

Go plant-based.

This movie is currently on prime. Several instances of reversing DMII but cutting out sugar/carbs.

You've done amazing things R44! Inspirational.

Just drink lotsa water!!!!

Eat a damn vegetable

OP, my cousin was diagnosed with Type 2 three years ago. I can't remember the names, but he was on three different prescriptions, plus insulin. He ended up sticking to a strict lower carb diet, getting more exercise and... here's the one weird one... drinking "bitter melon" / "bitter gourd" juice every day. That's not a euphemism. We're of Indian heritage and all our Indian aunties immediately started telling him he had to start drinking it. I know the plural of anecdote isn't data, but although his numbers were improving, it wasn't until he started drinking that (admittedly, disgusting) juice that he was able to eventually get off the meds. According to him, he's been off any medication or insulin for more than a year and has maintained his healthy blood sugar numbers by continuing to restrict carbs, exercise and, yes, drink the juice. Make of that what you will. You can usually find the stuff at Indian grocery stores.

This works but most don't want to do it. NIH-funded study, also covered in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Why do you think most people don't want to do it R51?

Fatty!

I thought this thread was about OP trying to sell herbalife supplement, but its worse. Recommendation like fasting or vegan diet to "cure" the diabetes?? Your ignorance can kill people!!

How about exercise? What kind? Can it reverse diabetes?

This is what r51 said:

[quote]The prescribed vegan diet (≈10% of energy from fat, 15% protein, 75% carbohydrate) consisted of vegetables, fruit, grains, and legumes. Participants were asked to 1) avoid animal products (ie, meats, dairy products, eggs); 2) avoid fatty foods, such as added oils, fried products, avocados, nuts, and seeds; and 3) favor low–glycemic index foods, such as beans and green vegetables. These diet changes increase dietary fiber and complex carbohydrate at the expense of total and saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein. Portion sizes, energy intake, and carbohydrate intake were unrestricted.

It’s all SO CONFUSING. My doctor (borderline pre diabetic) said NO carbs, no sweets, just protein, fats, and vegetables and low glycemic stuff.

R56 if your doctor said no carbs, then he is either a quack or an idiot.

Think about it -- where are carbs? In all fruits, vegetables, and legumes, which should comprise almost all your diet.

If you want to really understand how to be healthy, you should watch What the Health.

[quote]Recommendation like . . . [a] vegan diet to "cure" the diabetes?? Your ignorance can kill people!!

You're an idiot, R54. It is well founded among medical professionals that a vegan diet can, in fact, reverse diabetes and hypertension. Advising a diabetic to fast is patently ridiculous, granted; however, a vegan diet is fantastic for anyone with cardiovascular disease or diabetes.

Fruit Smoothies are deadly for diabetics. A soon as it hits your stomach, sugar spikes. Is this"Green Machine" OK? Baby spinach, Kale, Avocado, Mango, Whey Protein.

Cinnamon

Cinnamon Girl

Cinnaminomon.

r42 umm.. you are saying a vegan diet is bad for diabetics??

I wasn’t clear r57. He meant stop eating rice two-three times a day (god I love rice), no potatoes (baked potatoes were my winter standby), and no pasta (so easy to make a meal from it). Also watch what fruit I eat and no fruit juice. I find cooking with vegetables difficult. You need to have so many herbs, spices, and sauces to make them palatable and then they need meat and/or a carb to be filling.

[quote] Diabetes is CARB-related, not fat.

Absolutely NOT.

It starts because of excess animal fats in the diet. How well it is being controlled is measured by the sugar in the blood.

It's caused by some autoimmune process in the pancreas and in the sugar receptors. It's animal fats that spark such autoimmune processes.

[quote] Recommendation like fasting or vegan diet to "cure" the diabetes?? Your ignorance can kill people!!

It's pretty established that a vegan diet can reverse chronic diseases like diabetes.

Don't think so? Try it for two weeks and see what happens to your blood sugars. It's pretty amazing.

R42 is an idiot, R63 an doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

R56, it is confusing. Just my two cents here, but I found that a very low-carb, high-fat diet (good fats like walnuts and avocados and grass fed animal fat/butter) reduced my belly fat like no other diet ever has. And doctors agree that belly fat is *dangerous*. It’s not any more expensive, because you’re not eating a lot and buying tons of snack foods.

You can have a very healthy vegan or keto diet, or you can have a shitty one. I don’t exactly buy the hype about eating lots of bacon, for example. And there are endless threads about crappy vegan diets, but I can’t presume to talk about vegan because I don’t know enough about it. I’m positive there are healthful ways to live vegan.

But I don’t think ANY doctor could argue with a healthy keto day: 2 boiled eggs with butter, and a handful of raspberries for breakfast. Salmon with fresh homemade garlic aioli and a big green salad for dinner, steak and asparagus for dinner. That’s keto. And it can be done a lot cheaper; I’m just giving the premium version.

R68 -- I don't think any thinking human could agree with eggs and butter for breakfast, salmon and steak throughout the day. You will basically kill yourself within a decade.

r63 here why do I not know my ass from a hole in the ground? I asked a question?

I think this thread has shown that the best thing to do is consult a medical expert who specialises in diabetes. And stop looking for health advice from a bunch of queers on a gossip chat board.

No, R70/R63, I was telling you that R42 didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground because he was claiming that a vegan diet was somehow dangerous for diabetics.

A good vegan diet would be good for a diabetic. But many vegans struggle to get enough complete protein, and tend to rely on simple carbohydrates like pasta and rice, which are too high on the glycemic index for diabetics. At the end of her life, my mother was on that diet and her blood sugar was uncontrollable. She’d go up and down like crazy. And she weighed all of 90lbs and I swear to god it killed her. “But that’s what the doctor told me.” Eating shit like grapes and sweet potatoes for breakfast, and spaghetti with broccoli for lunch. Her sugar would spike after eating and then crash after her insulin. It was insane.

You sound insufferable "Vegan M.D." (sure Jan). Going around calling everyone here idiots shows what a massive asshole you are.

Here are the facts R58/R67. Firstly, everybody hates you. I suppose you might even be an MD (sure Jan) but you are a quack. Being an MD doesn't mean you actually know anything about diabetes or that you're qualified to give any advice to diabetics given your rabid adherence to veganism. Well, apart from telling everyone they are idiots which you believe you're very qualified to do.

Secondly, vegan diets are difficult fullstop. They are heavily restrictive, very difficult to balance, often leave the vegan nutritionally depleted, are socially difficult, unacceptable, impossible to live normally when interacting with others/eating out. Also vegans tend to be extremely unpleasant people given to crusades about their veganism and being a vegan involves cult-like Kool Aid attitudes (example - YOU). That's why nobody wants to eat vegan. It's too hard and not backed by reputable evidence otherwise all diabetics would be vegans.

R71 is 100% correct. Consult a qualified diabetes medical professional - not a bunch of queens on a chat forum and most definitely not "Vegan M.D. Asshole".

R74, been there. I tried vegan for a diabetics. Lack of protein caused problems like unable to build muscle.

I'm sure a good diet can help, but no because is vegan is good for you. Vegetarian diets are way more balanced and healthy in that case. People here are blaming animal fats for everything, I'm sure they are part of the problem, but no more than carbohydrates, and those are perfectly vegan.

Kidney specialist in Toronto, Jason Fung - his research shows that Type 2 diabetes is treatable with fasting. He runs a clinic where people with diabetes are successfully treated using his methods.

And yet, R74, the number of world class athletes, respected doctors, medical professionals, and others who are 100 perfect vegan is rising exponentially because they know, unlike you, that a vegan diet is easy to maintain, inexpensive, and the best path to good health.

[quote] But many vegans struggle to get enough complete protein, and tend to rely on simple carbohydrates like pasta and rice, which are too high on the glycemic index for diabetics.

A true vegan diet is one with fruits and vegetables, not pasta and rice.

Nobody cares R78/R79...

Hey R74! Just so you know . . . you're an idiot. Did a vegan dump you? I feel as if you're damaged and irrational when it comes to this topic. Your ad hominem fallacies about vegans made me laugh.

And yes, Jan, I'm a radiation oncologist and more than qualified to speak on the subject of diabetes. Personally, I don't care what you or anyone else eat; your diet is up to you. But there is irrefutable, peer-reviewed data showing the benefits of a vegan diet. That said, it's like any other diet in the sense that you have to pay attention to what you consume. Getting protein on a vegan diet is not difficult, but you do have to be mindful of the food choices you make, just as with any diet.

I tell my patients that you're free to eat whatever you want, but those choices come with a cost It's like the taxman--he's going to come calling.

The bottom line, OP, is that you should talk to your personal physician and find the best choice for you and then stick to it. 99.9% of the people whining that a vegan diet is "too hard" simply lack discipline and the desire to change. (Or they were dumped by a hot vegan.)

Everyone wants the ease of using pills to fix a chronic disease because they really want to keep the lifestyle they had that caused the chronic disease in the first place.

Most of these are caused by the meat and carb-laden western diet. Change it if you really want to be healthier. Stop hoping expensive pills with their crazy side effects are going to spare you that eventual heart attack.

Eat better and better is way, way, way more vegetables. While nutrition studies ALWAYS say eat more vegetables, what they are scared to say is what you will have to replace to eat those vegetables. The answer is meat.

[quote]Eat better. And better is way, way, way more vegetables.

If only your way, way, way more vegetables didn't suck, suck, suck so hard, hard, hard.

Tomatoes are good maybe three weeks out of the year. I like corn, but I'm always conscious of pesticides and GMOness. Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, and kale taste awful.

I don't find spaghetti squash a very good substitute for real pasta. Eggplant yields a less-than-palatable texture unless you salt it first. Ditto zucchini.

And those of you who tell us frozen vegetables are better are lying. I tried. The only frozen vegetables I like are corn and peas. And then you bitch at us because those are "starches, not vegetables." Same with potatoes, which I actually do love.

So, yeah, you can cunt all you want about vegetables, but most of them are not pleasant to eat.

People like you are exhausting, R83. I don't feel bad that your shitty diet will kill you young.

Hey Vegan MD Asshole, you wanna date? You sound hot and healthy!! 😉

[quote]Hey Vegan MD Asshole, you wanna date? You sound hot and healthy!! 😉

And R I C H , R84. Don't forget R I C H.

He's bringing in 300 to 400k yearly if he's practicing Radiation Oncology. 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑

Hey I'm a rich vegan in LA. Doesn't anyone want to date me?

^^^ Thanks, but no thanks, Ellen.

Clean Keto is the real deal. Research it.

There probably is no diet more dangerous than keto. Every single major health website and every major health organization warns people never to try it.

I was diagnosed pre-diabetic, and then type-2 Diabetic not too long ago. I cut out the following: processed sugar including most cakes, cookies, pastries, candy, chocolate and snack foods (Potato chips, corn chips, doritoes, etc.)

I also cut back severely on rice, pasta, potatoes, and white bread.

I upped the amount of fresh fruits, vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower, zucchini, lettuce, cabbage and salad ingredients. Also increased the use of nuts as a snack food instead of the usual stuff. Started also finding new cheeses to taste and new foods like tabouleh.

I like to take an apple and make slices from it as a side snack. Bananas, grapes, cherries, peaches and pears are my main source of sweetness.

I also walk more often, and have lost around 20lbs (though I've gained back about 5 mostly from not able to go to the gym.)

I no longer am considered diabetic, but my diet has remained changed forever. I will only eat a limited amount of sweets for holiday meals, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter. I miss chocolate, white bread and ice cream, but it's worth being healthier and thinner.

"There probably is no diet more dangerous than keto. Every single major health website and every major health organization warns people never to try it."

Yeah, every major health website/organization sponsored/funded by Big Pharma. And Big Pharma is anti-Keto for obvious reasons. Ignore shills like r89 and objectively research both sides of this issue.

Metformin worked wonders for me, personally. I went from A1C of 8.9 down to 5.3 within about a year and a half. I've also lost 71 pounds since getting on it. It gives you explosive diarrhea though, but it totally killed my appetite - which made it easy for me to just eat smaller portions overall. My doctor actually took me off it a couple months ago.

I still ate carbs, but again, in much smaller portions, and whole grain bread instead of white bread. I also cut out all sugary drinks, including diet drinks. I only drink unsweetened iced tea or sparkling water.

No sweets/snacking/grazing throughout the day.

R91 = typical science denier and Trump supporter