Eastern Europe

Estonia.

They are proof that Europeans are not as advanced as they think.

They are the Deep South of Europe.

We don't want them here.

Slovenia be best.

Estonia - more like a Nordic country than Eastern European.

R1 beat me to it. I was filled with dread when I had to go there on a work trip and I ended up loving it. I've gone back twice on my own time. It feels similar to Finland to me, but with happy people.

It gets progressively worse the further east you go.

Product of Estonia

@tomzalac (r) and high school friend in Croatia, where they grew up.

I’m so glad my European ancestors came from non hillbilly Europe

The Iron Curtain was their Mason-Dixon line.

I had a friend in Finland who told me how wonderful Estonia is. I always thought the Czech Republic was considered progressive, but is that just because of the pron?

R13, the Czech Republic doesn't belong on this list. They're Central European, much more progressive, and would not want to be lumped in with these other bad news bears.

Hungarians have a certain elegance of character and manners - when they are not right wing nationalists, that is. All the Eastern countries can of course produce male beauties. The Baltics hardly seem "Eastern Europe" at all anymore. The Czechs and Slovaks don't have much violence or machismo. They are very soft cultures.

Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia are Central Europe.

[quote] I’m so glad my European ancestors came from non hillbilly Europe

Oh so they didn’t come from the British Isles? That’s where are the hillbillies came from.

Anything east of Transylvania in Romania is a place to steer clear of. I can tell you that after a year in Romania. No Moldova, Ukraine, or Russia...they are no man's land. Little liberal minded towns however are scattered all over in a sea of backwardness.

I would say many Slavs (excluding the ones south of the Black Sea) are white trash and about 70 percent of Hungarians.

Romanian women don't have the trashy and tacky gene due to their Latin heritage and are somewhat more similar to Italians from the region around Rome, so I can't see similarity between them and the Russian women I have seen in LA with flashy cars who marry rich old geezers. They also make fun of Slavs the way we do of Melania.

The Baltic countries are really more Nordic than Eastern European countries according to most folks here like Hugarians, Romanians and folks from the Balkans. Czechs also don't belong on this list, as they are more central European but have a trashy Slavic gene if you leave the big city.

[quote] according to most folks here like Hugarians,

There’s a DL Freudian slip if there ever was one.

Every time I think of Eastern Europe I think of the movie Hostel

[quote] I would say many Slavs (excluding the ones south of the Black Sea) are white trash

Not as white as they think/claim. They have more Romani and Turkish blood than they would care to know about.

Poland has its nice parts.

R14, Thanks. I remember one of the posters on the old Atkol forums took the time to differentiate between Central Europe and Eastern Europe, so I'm glad for the confirmation.

Does anyone remember that really hot mod on Manvox who was always posting his nudes? What country was he from?

Prague is fine but the rest of the country is a cesspool of racism, xenophobia and backwards thinking.

I know it’s Central Europe but it’s on the map, so.

I've been to every EE country except Belarus, Moldova, and Russia. I feel it's a tie between Estonia and Latvia. Also, living in Europe taught me western Europe's progressive and refined reputation is unearned. Lots of trashy and backwoods mouth breathers can be found in the UK, France, Germany and Italy.

It sounds shitty

r26 UK is white trash central.

Every time Andrei and Elizabeth talk about his homeland of Moldova on 90 Day Fiance, my mind flashes to this scene.

bump

What is Bulgaria like?

Czechia is shockingly conservative

I have an older neighbor lady friend who says her parents were from Latvia. Her name is Helle and I had guessed her to be Scandinavian but I don't know much about Latvia though.

[quote] What is Bulgaria like?

They named their capital after one of The Golden Girls characters. Tells you all you need to know about them.

No but you should be embarrassed OP by your ignorant post.

Shithole

Bulgaria is very much what you would expect of an EE country. Most of the people are nice, but there's a lot of poverty and a glaring wealth gap.

Unfortunately these countries suffered grievously under the Nazis and/or Soviets and some made better progress than others during and after the occupation. Anything over there outside the EU is best avoided. Within the EU the Czech Republic has a good reputation for business and tourism. I fucked a very nice Latvian and he fucked me very well (while he was fucking me, I thought I was in love with him), so I'll put in a good word for Latvia.

Slovenia is less trashy by one since a particular cunt emigrated for a fuck job in the USA.

Moldova. I lived there for a year. Poorest country in Europe. A complete disaster.

Hot dumb men, but they're all uncut so don't waste your time.

Of course they're uncut, R41, all of the developed world is. It's not the 19th century anymore.

good lord, a year in Moldova is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

There is no "Central Europe". There is East and West. Czech Rep., Hungary, Poland, Croatia, all EASTERN EUROPE.

There is no "Central Europe". There is East and West. Czech Rep., Hungary, Poland, Croatia, all EASTERN EUROPE.

What happens in Moldova?

R44 agree. Even if Czech Republic is central (ish) on the map, having spent time there for work it definitely has an Eastern Europe state of mind. Outside of Prague, anyone who is not white and straight and/or dressed well is gawped at like a zoo animal.

[quote] What happens in Moldova?

What happens in Moldova stays in Moldova.

[quote] many Slavs (excluding the ones south of the Black Sea)

Given that Turkey and Georgia make up the southern shore of the Black Sea, which Slavs are you talking about R18?

Are you the Brit who lives in Romania?

R31, we're ruled by the mafia which has destroyed anything positive about this country in the past 30 years. We used to have lovely nature but the mafia-owned vonstruction and tourism companies are quickly destroying what's left of it.

That being said, America doesn't look too good from over here too. Perhaps the people in coastal areas are rich and progressive, but the rest...

*construction

The Hungarians and Czechs were integral parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire and thus more Central European in outlook than other Eastern Europeans.

The Hungarians are also not Slavs

That said, while Prague and Budapest feel very cosmopolitan and Western, once you get out into the countryside, it's definitely more like Euro-ppalachia.

Definitely hygiene issues amongst the population. Worse than France if you can believe it.

Serbia, Romania, Albania, Hungary. All vying for #1 Top Eurotrash Nation (Eastern Division).

Are Eastern Europeans trashy because of their farming/peasant roots or is there more to their trashiness?

The industrial revolution and development of a strong middle class mostly bypassed Eastern Europe R55, so they were old school peasants up through World War 2.

Then after WW2, they got swept up by the Soviets so again never developed a middle class and then capitalism was thrust on them.

Basically they're still catching up and the rural areas can feel like you've stepped through a time warp.

But spend some time with 30something professionals in Budapest or Prague and their lives and habits are not much different from Americans.

A year in Moldova. I should write my memoir about it.

So even the middle class are trashy, R56?

A lot of the middle and upper classes were deported and/or murdered by the Nazis and Soviets.

Hey what about Transnistria R55?

Depends on how you define "middle class" R58

People who've gone to college and are lawyers, bankers, media executives, etc. (and are under 40) are far more like us.

Factory workers in rural areas are not

[quote] A lot of the middle and upper classes were deported and/or murdered by the Nazis and Soviets.

70-80 years ago.

Even the ones that escaped Eastern Europe stayed true to their trashy roots. Western Canada is filled with the descendants of Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Mennonite immigrants and who basically did nothing but farm or work in factory/natural resource jobs like the oil patch.

After that R62 they lived in the Workers' Paradise where middle and upper class people were discriminated against. They've only been free of the Soviets for 30 years and even after the USSR collapsed a lot of old commies carried on in power. Look at Belarus.

Wasn't Fiddler on the Roof filmed in Moldova? They left for New York and Chicago in the end, no surprise.

Agreed R64.

What I have found (pre-Covid I was in Prague and Budapest a couple times a year for work) is that college graduates-with-good-jobs under 40 in those cities tend to be very Western and have often lived in the UK, France or even the US for a while and generally spoke excellent English, but those in their 50s and up still felt very Soviet/Eastern Bloc. Gross generalization of course, but largely the case.

Yes R62 but did you get any cock-action and bum-fun?

Several teachers during my Prague college years admonished me for using the word EASTERN to qualify the country, R45. We are in Central Europe, they said.

Poles are frequently very provincial and close-minded; however, most have a solid work ethic and are honest people with a moral compass.

I'm not sure I would say that about many others in Eastern Europe. Criminals and cut-throats, many of them.

R68 That's what they want you to believe. Czechs are somewhat ashamed of their Slavic heritage. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Polish acquaintance of mine, who told me that Czechs are much more cosmopolitan than the Poles and they also want to be perceived that way. To make a point, they also threw religon overboard as most of the country is atheist. They also love to consume US media and try to imitate the Western lifestyle.

[quote] To make a point, they also threw religon overboard as most of the country is atheist. They also love to consume US media and try to imitate the Western lifestyle.

Good for them.

Countries in the Austro-Hungarian Empire did have the industrial revolution and did have civil servant, professional and merchant middle classes, before the Soviet occupations. It wasn't the serf situation of Russia for crissakes.

Why do you ask OP? Are you thinking of some sex tourism when they let us travel there again?

what about romania? I fucked a closeted romanian guy, and later found out he had a profile on plenty of fish looking for girls, he was really good looking with beautiful blond hair and blue eyes, and the taste of his cum was amazing. so i would like to visit romania and see if i can get me a romanian beefcake.

Moldova is the worst of everything that ever existed.

Because they sit between Europe & Asia, they have been raped & looted by everyone since the dawn of time. I mean *everyone.* There’s no one who hasn’t had a piece of Moldova. Anyone who ever amounted to anything in Moldova was taken away as a slave to someplace else. Moldovans are the ones they left behind because they weren’t even worth having as slaves. Even now they’re not worth anything because they’ve all sold a kidney. It’s illegal to sell both kidneys, so they just sit around in their villages waiting to die.

[quote] Wasn't Fiddler on the Roof filmed in Moldova?

Nope, it was filmed in Croatia.

How sad R75 but Transnistria sounds worse.

R74, the Romanian countryside is very beautiful, so there is that.

Summer of my Transnistrian soldier. He was blonde, blue-eyed, hung like a horse, hairless, with honeyed breath and a fragrant hole that smelled of lavender and melon. Those late evening strolls on the boulevards of Tiraspol! Sodomy in the rose gardens behind the public baths.

R74 = R79

R75 I lived there. Are you Moldovan?

OP - not that you're a bigot or anything, eh?

R75, you should work for the Travel Bureau!

Come to Moldova if you ever wondered what it was like to be so poor & unwanted that the slave traders of Europe, Turkey, Central Asia & Mongolia don’t want you. Not even Russia or the Caucasus want you, which is pretty low.The USSR didn’t want Moldova, but it was part of a package deal to end WW2. It was an offer they literally couldn’t refuse. It came with Romania & Albania and a side of fries.

Provincetown is full of HOT Bulgarian men working in service jobs like peddle cab drivers.

So, no beef with them!

Also: EVERY Euro country has trash in it...I mean, you can't get much trashier than some of the chavs in the UK.

R85, true. Nothing worse than a young English tourist looking for fun. Not even the worst Russians are as feared as these drunk, violent, condescending, lordly pricks.

Thanks for the good words about Bulgarian men!

Rogan on Harlem Hookups sampled some hot Bulgarians ... I think the lead was called Gencho (see link).

R49 - I am not a Brit living in Romania, I am an American living here. I meant south of Transylvania towards the Black Sea...ugh.

This thread is making me feel sorry for poor Moldova.

Apparently they like to draw penises everywhere in Moldova.

Some more hot Bulgars with their boy.

Moldova sounds moldy

These men are both Moldovan of the same age. Which one is more typical?

Got it R88

Is there a big expat community there or did you move to Romania to be with your Romanian boyfriend/partner/husband?

Budapest and Prague have sizable expat communities, both Americans, Canadians and Brits working for multinational companies and artist types taking advantage of the cheap(er) cost of living--though the latter is not nearly as common as it was 20 years ago when the cost of living really was cheaper. But still, you can easily spend your days inside the expat bubble

What is Bucharest like as an expat?

Is Prague or Budapest a better city to visit?

Tough call R95. Both are beautiful cities

Prague is way overtouristed and Czech food is mediocre.

Budapest is not quite as overrun (though packs of drunken chavvy Brits on drinking holidays abound both places) and Hungarian food is much, much better.

But Hungary is run by an autocrat who makes Trump look like a defender of freedom and liberty.

As a tourist you will not see that though. There's no secret police, you will see signs protesting things the government has done and Hungarians will bitch about Orban to you and all that. And Budapest does not have the homeless and migrant issues that you have in other European cities--it's very safe.

You can easily see both and I would also try and get to Vienna too--it's only about 2-3 hours by train from Budapest.

I am completely biased since I lived in Prague, but Prague for sure. Budapest feels a little dreary to me. In Prague try to avoid the main tourist spots (or see them quickly and early morning) and see the rest of the city. Amazing spots all around. The 7th district is the best to stay/eat out.

Ha! The 7th District in Budapest (the Jewish Quarter) also has the best restaurants/night life. It's a little touristy in spots, but if you stay away from the more well known Ruin Bars, you'll avoid most of the aforementioned drunken Brits.

Croatia is also Central Europe.

R93. I a year I never saw a Moldovan man who looked anything like the man on the left. The man on the right is fake but not far off.

R14 is right, the Czech Republic doesn't belong on the list. As for Estonia, and the other Baltic countries, they like to think of themselves as "Scandinavian", but they definitely are not, nor are they "like a Nordic country". They're more "Russia-lite".

[quote] Anything east of Transylvania in Romania is a place to steer clear of.

Well, no shit--Dracula is there!!!

[quote] Moldova is the worst of everything that ever existed.

My friend agrees with you. He is Jewish and his parents grew up there. His dad was frequently mocked for being Jewish and yes, that country is cold, literally and figuratively. I think it's the poorest country in Europe, poorer than Georgia.

An escort from Albania will run you approx US$40 for the night. Even on a fixed income you can have some fun there!

Croatia is supposed to be beautiful and have handsome men, but they are fairly homophobic still.

I’m not kidding there really are entire villages in Moldova where all the men have 1 kidney. For some reason, they don’t want the women to sell their kidneys. I guess in case their one kidney goes bad — they want to have a donor.

Estonia, Latvia and Litva are Baltic countrues and are considered Nordic rather than Eastern European here in Europe.

However, when we're talking about Central Europe, it is absolutely a thing but there are two distinct halves - the Eastern one (Poland, Chechia, Croatia, Hungary) which used to be under heavy Soviet influence, and then there's the Western Central Europe - Germany and Austria. They have tons in common in terms of deep historical culture but also a ton of differences due to the recent Soviet wounds/lack thereof.

A friend of mine is Albanian. The country was cut off from the world when the communists were in power. You couldn't visit and you couldn't leave. They didn't even compete in the Olympics then.

That said, my friend is gorgeous, black hair, brown eyes, a stunning face, built, swarthy, hairy (even hairier beneath the zipper, he tells me) and his enormous cockhead pushes hard on his jeans. I am falling all over myself and caught in the middle of "gay friend" to "gay man who wants the bed you".

How many other Albanian men have been hidden from us? He tells me Albanians have migrated to southern Italy for generations. Anyone else with some experience with them?

You’re an idiot , r55/r63. The descendants of Ukrainian and Polish farmers are multi millionaire farmers, or business owners, or professionals. There are thousands of Polish and Ukrainian dentists, physicians, lawyers, judges, bankers, accountants, etc. across the prairies.

Chechia, R107?

The women would have to stop catering to their men's every need for more than one minute so they can't donate. I'd love to figure out a way to sell Moldovan wine in the US and send money that actually reaches those villages.

Well, here we are: sex tourists, please speak up and say it all; that's what we came for.

[quote] Anyone else with some experience with them?

Yes, they’re gangsters. But we pretty much leave them alone & go after black Americans instead.

R110: the Chech republic

It's Czechia, the former Czech Republic. Replace your H with a Z.

In my town the Irish & Polish immigrants went to the same church, but the Italians built their own church. I think the Irish & Poles didn’t really consider the Italians legit Catholics. I know my grandparents were totally unwilling to go to the same church as Italians because Italians did things like stick dollar bills all over statues and were always having some kind of statue procession of one kind or another. My grandparents would never admit it to Protestants, but they thought the Italians practiced idolatry. They were like “Sure, we light candles in front of the Blessed Virgin in church & we have a statue of her in the church garden, but we don’t go parading the bloody statues all over the town every two weeks like these bloody Italians. They make it look like we worship statues!”

And the Italian church had Casino Night. The Irish & Poles were all “No, no! You can have card games & bingo inside the church hall, out of everyone else’s view. But you don’t go having a bloody CARNIVAL on your church grounds for everyone to see, Jesus Christ! It justifies the Protestants being all pissy about gambling in the church.”

So the Irish & Poles got along fine.

R104's link is dangerous. My Malwarebytes stopped the connection and informed a trojan was trying to infect my Windows 7. If you opened the link you should immediately run antivirus/malware check. Don't forget that there's tons of Mac malware these days as well, especially trojans.

[quote] Estonia, Latvia and Litva are Baltic countrues and are considered Nordic rather than Eastern European here in Europe.

I've never heard anyone viewing them as Nordic countries. As a reminder in the most recent study I found on google 71-85 % of people in those three Baltic countries OPPOSE gay marriage, and only 12-23 % are in favor, Estonia being the most gay friendly of the three. Sill, 71% of Estonians oppose gay marriage although apparently it's the only Baltic state with a gay civil union. These numbers are probably worse than today, though, since apparently the research interviews are from 2015-2016.

That's interesting R116, given the Vatican is in Rome and most all the popes and cardinals and all have been Italian. I wonder if the Italians are equally as suspicious of the Irish and Poles? (And that is likely complicated by the fact that the Italians in the US are mostly Sicilian, Calabrese and Napolitano, so have very different customs and practices than the northern Italians. But still, they've been Christians far longer--many Eastern European tribes did not accept Christianity until the Middle Ages.

R107- I know the Estonians and similar to the Finns in language and origin, but I thought the Latvians and Lithuanians were also Slavs. The Lithuanians history is bound up with that of the Poles, with lots of border swapping and wars and all that.

Well, I don't know about their percentages on gay rights, R117, but culturally and ethnucally they are not part if the Slavic world and are dar closer to the Nordic one.

*ethnically

And *far closer, idk what is wrong with me tonight!

There's that little un-named bit north of Poland in OP's map: that's Russian territory called Kaliningrad Oblast. Anyone been there? I imagine it's full of sailors.

R119 That's not totally correct, because Lithuanian and Latvian are actually distantly related to Slavic languages (these languages all descended from a single proto-Balto-Slavic language, so you sometimes see them grouped together as Balto-Slavic languages). But people from these two countries get VERY offended if you insinuate that their language or culture have anything to do with Slavic ones at all.

R94 - no, unfortunately, my partner passed away years ago and my company transferred me here for a 2 year contract and I am one year into it. I don't live in Bucharest, but rather in a smaller city in Transylvania called Cluj-Napoca and work at a multinational company. There is a sizable ex-pat community but nothing like Prague. Luckily, the city is pretty liberal and far more civilized and cultured than the rest of the country, owing to the fact that there are a lot of multinational companies, universities, it is an IT hub and there are cheap flights all over Europe. However, since the start of the pandemic, it's been harder since most EU and Brits went home (since most are work from home now) and the universities are online. Travel is pretty restrictive with having fo take a COVID test or stay in quarantine, so probably the next 12 months will not be so great. Luckily, the shops, cultural events and restaurants are open.

I have Moldavian friends and they aren’t doing too bad as immigrants to USA. They have a popular grocery store and restaurant in my town. They are delightful. I go and buy caviar from them at Christmas. They have told me that Moldova, due to its poverty and lack of strategic importance, is actually quite beautiful and looks like what you would imagine fairy tales to look like if brought to life. All the medieval villages are still standing. So here’s to Moldova!

I can say the same about Slovenia, R125! I've only passed through it several times but the beautiful nature, the winding rivers and the medieval castles atop quaint hills really make you feel like you're in a Brothers Grimm fairytale.

Why would a company relocate to Transylvania?

R127 - there are lots of American companies in this city because it is an IT and engineering huh and the educated work force is cheaper. For example, Emerson and Bombardier are here, among many others.

So, is Transinistria a part of Russia? What about Chechnya?

Fuck! Moldovans don’t look like this??!?

Victory Day in Transnistria. No R129 it does not belong to Russia.

R131, okay so Transinistria is a part of Moldova essentially. I've been watching Bald and Bankrupt on YouTube and I believe he went to the parade in Tiraspol.

Here's a good one he does in Albania. Apparently he's been blacklisted in Belarus because he supported the resistance movement.

We let them in the Eurovision Song Contest. What more do you want from us?

[quote] Transinistria is a part of Moldova

R132 they fought a war to say NO to that.

R131 and r134, I'm tired tonight but I will read up on that area tomorrow. It's incredibly interesting to me.

Moldova is also spelled Moldavia. Looked great in 1985!

R125 No offense to your friends, but no one other than Moldovans would ever call that place fairytalelike. The landscape is mostly very bleak. And the only thing those "medieval" villages have in common with the Middle Ages are the bad roads and the smell, because there sure as hell aren't any interesting ancient buildings left around. The cultural heritage in the cities is also pretty much non-exsistant; you won't find any of those cute cobbled old town centres around here.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Moldova is the only European country that doesn't have a single interesting sight to offer to a seasoned traveler. It's probably most famous for its wine cellars, so at least alcoholic tourists should find it worth a visit.

R137, even people from there probably want to get the hell out. God knows (almost) all the Jews did.

r99 Sorry I forgot to include Croatia!

Moldova comes up as the unhappiest country on Earth, though I think it's got to be better than, say, the Congo or Chad.

r105 I fucked a hot Croatian-born model about a decade ago. Absolutely in the Top 5 guys I fucked in terms of physical beauty. His face was architecturally perfect.

Poor landlocked Moldova. Ukraine could at least grant it a little bit of coastline.

Belarus is sadder than Moldova, plus they have Chernobyl

Chernobyl was in Ukraine, not Belarus.

R143, Chernobyl is in Ukraine. Dumb azz!

Ukraine Belarus, same shit!

Parts of Belarus were effected by Chernobyl and is still radioactive. Pripyat though which was ground zero for the Chernobyl disaster is located in Ukraine.

Is Slovakia just like Slovenia?

R137 - While I have not been to the actual Republic of Moldova, I have been to Moldova that is here in Romania and you couldn't be more incorrect. I actually found the villages, for the most part, tidy and very quaint. The news will always show you the absolute worst things. Actually, my roommate and I took a trip to the UNESCO world heritage sites at the famed monasteries and the food, lodging, service and friendliness was top notch. I couldn't have asked for a better experience and the two cities we visited, Suceava and Iasi, are pretty clean and the people well dressed and there are universities and museums.

Yeah but the Romanian region of Moldavia isn't the country Moldova. Just as the country Macedonia and tge historic region that spilks into Greece and Bulgaria are far from one and the same.

*the and spills ^ sorry again

R150 - but it is essentially the same people and language and an artificial border was set up by the Soviet Union. Chisinau I have heard is nice, with nice cafes, restaurants and events but that a lot of the infrastructure was left in disarray and resources stolen by Russia. The people in both places are just as weary and tired of the Putin crap that messed up an otherwise interesting place.

What I find interesting is the rather Nordic look of the people and it turns out there were invasions of Ostrogoths after Roman times, so there is Scandinavian DNA and it kind of shows in the wooden churches and structures very similar to the old ones in Gotland. Overall interesting place and, apparently, their kings were the most hardcore in fighting Ottoman Turks which never quite penetrated there.

It's all about Montenegro.

Why is it such a hellhole?

[quote] Is Prague or Budapest a better city to visit?

Both of them are absolutely beautiful and worth seeing.

Prague is more one-of-a-kind in terms of its architecture (there is no city in the world quite like it), and it also has better art; but it also has more drunk college students at night.

[quote] Not as white as they think/claim. They have more Romani and Turkish blood

You don't deal with a lot of Turkish people, do you.

R154 - imagine if the US was under Trump and his cronies for 70 years and before that, under Putin or Asad. That is why.

I was actually planning a trip to Moldova this summer before Corona hit. I’d read a statistic somewhere that said it had the least amount of tourists in Europe. Okay, maybe not the best recommendation, but I was going to go via Turkey and I’m sure I would’ve found interesting things to like and if not, there’s plenty to do in Istanbul.

How do those countries feel about Russia?

R159 - that they are a bunch of brutes and barbarians that held them back.

troll thread

The countries that are doing well economically are glad to be rid of Russia. The countries that aren’t doing well economically miss the USSR. They miss being part of a large, powerful empire and they miss the stability of 100% employment, free health care, free education, a military to protect them, low crime & a stable bureaucracy. Everybody’s against bureaucracy, rules & regulations until they aren’t there anymore.

When the USSR caved, they lost all those things and there’s no telling what the future might bring. There have been wars. Some were small wars, but they are wars nonetheless & people died. South Ossetia, Georgia, Abkhazia, Transnistria. Dagestan, Ingushitia.

Then there was Chechnya & Ukraine, which weren’t such small wars.

The more economically & ethnically unstable, the more pro-Russian an area is. They long for the peaceful days of the USSR. Even people who were oppressed & deported under Stalin long for the post-Stalin days once they were safe.

Then there is Kyrgyzstan, for example, which is a Muslim republic. They hate the USA because of the various Gulf Wars & Afghanistan. The hate that the US attacks Muslim countries & they have have many jihadi wannabes among the younger population & the older generation supports the young men who they see as fighting for their ancestors’ religion. Kyrgyzstan is pro-Russian. They speak Russian as well as the local language. Russia & Russian is familiar to them.

But...the smell...

R162 nailed it. I'm glad Ukraine pivoted towards the EU after the whole Crimea thing.

Regarding the former Yugoslavia, was it under official Soviet rule? What type of leader was Tito? I don't really know much about that area.

In Kazakhstan they also miss the USSR. Now they have oil oligarchs who run their country & economy. They miss the notion that everyone was equal. There were few rich people in the USSR. There were communist higher ups who were better off than everyone else, but those higher ups weren’t filthy rich. They had dachas, they had some better consumer goods & could travel pretty freely. But they couldn’t be ostentatious about their status.

Things are better for people in terms of travel & consumer goods. but they miss being part of something larger. I saw an a interview with a woman whose father had been a professor who was imprisoned under soviet communism, but she missed it. She liked that everyone in all countries affiliated with the USSR spoke Russian & had the same rules & laws everywhere. When asked about her father’s imprisonment she said she had no hard feelings against Russians - that was politics, not Russians. Most Russians were good people.

Now that camaraderie is gone and they live in an ugly, glitzy new world.

I think theyre the same as Americans who miss the past. Americans miss factory jobs, functioning public transport, good medical care, a good phone system, good public schools, civil defense when it was taken seriously, the feeling of being militarily superior because of all our deadly weapons so it was unlikely we’d face a war on our soil. It seems like an idyllic time. Everyone dressed nicely to go to work or church. People could make their own clothes. Food was good & fresh, not chemical laden & GMO. Nobody was morbidly obese.

People miss stability.

(R31) I took my parents to Bulgaria last summer, and I loved it. The countryside is so beautiful. There are mountains and fields of sunflowers, which are a major export. It's half as expensive as Western Europe.

Melania was the architect of most of the skyscrapers in Slovakia. She was a brilliant architect before she began her life of lesbian porn.

R168, Slovakia. Slovenia. Same thing, right?

For about forty years or so, this region of the world produced the world's best gymnasts. Quality has dropped off recently, however.

Who are these people like R161 who declare everything a "troll thread"? Every thread on here is declared a troll thread. WTF?

Several years ago I dreamed:

In the year 2025 Melania Knauss Trump will be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for her published memoirs, but the nomination with be a tie with Jussie Smollett for his criminal justice reform activism and war will break out throughout the world. After three years of pain and suffering, the world will finally come together after realizing how ridiculous everyone has been and acting and world peace will finally be achieved. 2028 will be the year of magical thinking.

R171 I'm not R161, yet I wouldn't at all disagree with the impression this thread is quite trollish. Categorising an entire swath of Europeans as "trash" or less than certainly isn't intellectual or even remotely evolved. Then there are delightful posters suggesting many are not WHITE or WHITE ENOUGH. It's disconcerting for many of us to read such ignorant sweeping generalisations of people. I find may of the posts à la Stormfront. Especially odd for gay people to be judgemental.

If these are your people, and you're proud to defend their bigotry and Xenophobia, be my guest. I side with the faction calling this a troll thread. If you are an American, do you profess to believe only Americans are created equal, but Eastern and Central Europeans are all "trash"?

I find many of the posters here quite troubling. It's sad how even many of the well travelled posters lack grace and noblesse oblige when it concerns poor, less developed countries. All people have worth and dignity as your brothers and sisters, regardless of being unsophisticated or stunted by communism. They are not automatically trash because of the vicissitudes of history and economic systems.

R173 You’re mentioning the racism and xenophobia you find so present on DL while ignoring those things when they’re seen in Eastern Europe. It’s done here as commentary in what’s labeled a vile pit of trollery. In Eastern Europe sticks and stones do break people’s bones but here, words hardly have the same effect. Equating the two is ridiculous.

Why do you, for instance, ignore the rampant racism and mistreatment of refugees and Roma? Nor do you mention of the right wing nationalist governments which flaunt the EU’s protections of gays and persecuted minorities and religions. Nowhere is heaven on earth, but try to save your scolding for people whose actions are hurting people, not your delicate sensitivities.

You must not be familiar with my posts, yet I defend Roma, and have Scinti friend I've discussed here. I stand for equality and dignity of ALL people. Regardless of certain likes and dislikes posters may have for certain peoples or cultures, language and tone can be quite inflammatory. Words are powerful, and we must use them carefully. I find this to be especially true concerning minority populations or the downtrodden. They're often already at a disadvantage, and they don't need others to dehumanise them further.

People ought to be fareful how they make foolish assumptions of others behavior, and values as you do here. You're ascribing things to me not in keeping with what remarks I've written here, whereas I have taken some of these posts at face value.

As regards your other questions, of why I don't do this, that, or the other thing... this thread isn't about that, so you can shove your whataboutism straight up your cunt. I don't know who you think I am, but I do not live in the EU, I live in Chicago, and am a Jew.

^ meant for R174

R174 BTW, Inforgot to ask, are youneven R171? If not, that mere fact is HIGHLY INDICATIVE of being a bloody troll, as you lack the common courtesy I had exercised in explaining that I was not R161.

For the sake of clear dialogue, and proper rebuttals directed at the right poster, you ought to do so. I'm not lecturing to you, unless you happen to feel guilty, or that you personally can do better. Again, I was merely answering R171's question of who are these people who dare to call this a troll thread.

I think you can do better if you feel lectured, or defensive of my take on the comments here. I also find it perplexing you accuse me of equating two things... What again are you going on about? I didn't create any analogies or metaphors. I objected to sweeping generalisations of people, white supremacy, and the tone of the language being disrespectful to a broad swath of Europeans. Might I remind you many Americans have ancestry from Eastern Europe. Certain posters here and the OP insult them as well with such bigoted comments. These comments are no more defensible than Trump's remarks about "shithole countries". Whatever the mistakes or failings of Eastern Europeans, two wrongs do not make right.

Chisinau - When I would walk to work I noticed several buildings looked burned out. I was informed they were leftovers from The War, meaning WW2. I lived there in 2000. It is a forgotten city in a forgotten country. The citizens are completely demoralized.

[quote] Ursula von der Leyen says Poland's 'LGBT-free zones' have no place in EU

Poland is best avoided.

For those of you who think there weren't Soviet millionaires, think again. The Soviet Union celebrated them. There is nothing in Marxism which says you have to be a poors.

I was watching some travel videos of moldova and the city looks very clean and developped. I didnt notice any poverty at all.

Link R181 please.

[quote] Why would a company relocate to Transylvania?

Blood banks are boffo there.

Moldova.org August 27, 2020:

"Moldova is a country where farmers have to face the full spectrum of difficulties due to hail fall and drought; culture, tourism or catering sectors became almost non-existent due to the lack of support from the authorities; healthcare system is fighting for each person during the pandemic, using very limited resources that are mainly obtained from donations; infrastructure is still underdeveloped and the state budget is still very much dependant on international funding."

It's their adherence to conservative Christian believes, which they used to free themselves of Russian communism, that's fuelling the toxic environment now.

Russia has turned back to religious values, because Putin figured out how beneficial it is to manipulate people.

Which country has the best uncock cock? My vote is Hungary, but I haven't been to all of these places.

My father's side is Lithuanian. My aunts have gone back many times to visit relatives there and love it. Both are very liberal and have had zero problems in that respect.

R185 - "Russia has turned back to religious values, because Putin figured out how beneficial it is to manipulate people."

Well, it's rather old news ("opiate of the people" and all that) about how established churches and government work hand in hand.

But it's also true that Russia - how can I put this? - rather takes to it like the proverbial duck to water. Russia has no history of democratic progress, and a great deal of its cultural identity is tied up in the Russian Orthodox Church (whose music and services, by they way, are quite stirring - they retain the majesty and high ritual most Western churches have lost). It's not as if someone is forcing Russians into church on Sunday . . .

Then there was some talk about bringing back the Romanovs (monarchies and the church are even tighter) to cement the whole return to Russian culture and identity thing, but at that Putin drew the line.

Putin-head may not be nice, but he's not stupid. So, Russian Orthodox Church, yes; return of the Tsars, no.

R187 - Lithuania is a very distinct place and, in fact, is considered part of the Baltics. It has an ancient language - Lithuanian is one of only two living languages in the Baltic branch of the Indo-European language family, the other is Latvian.

It has a high standard of living, lots of democratic processes. It was never "Eastern European" in the sense that Poland or Hungary were. Vilnius is a beautiful city with a great deal of culture, although the tragic history of its Jews is saddening - it used to be called the Jerusalem of the North.

If I sound partial, it is because I have some Lithuanian DNA, although the relative from whom I got it died before I was born.

It has done very well freed at last from the tyranny of either Russia or Germany . . .

The food is probably great in Eastern Europe because they still have family farms in the countryside instead of industrialized farming. Fresh fruit & vegetables, eggs, chicken, pork......

Thanks R189! I didn't know my father (died when I was young) and only recently reconnected with his side of my family. I knew it was a Baltic state and just assumed that equated to Eastern Europe.

Thanks for the info! I plan on taking a trip there whenever that's a reality!