Now, Voyager on TCM tonight, 8pm

I watched The Letter the last time we had a viewing party and it may be my favorite all time melodrama.

But a bunch of you kept saying no, no, Now Voyager is the greatest. So tonight will decide it for me. It’s been so long since I’ve seen NV that I completely forget the ending.

Bette's least bitchy role. She's wonderful. Gladys Cooper steals all her scenes.

If you have three minutes, here’s a clip examining the work of Orry-Kelly

Over-rated dreck.

Jimmy Carter told Bette Davis that "Now, Voyager" was the only movie he ever paid to see twice.

Gowns by, R3.

[quote] I completely forget the ending.

Oh Jerry...

Old hateful-ass Mrs. Vale, Gladys Cooper, was actually a lovely person whom Bette adored.

I wish she had won the Oscar for MFL.

Gladys Cooper joins her son-in-law Robert Morley on this 1971 Dick Cavett Show @ 21:05.

Mary Wickes as Mrs. Vale's dyke nurse, Dora Pickford.

John Loder, who played Charlotte's fiance Elliot Livingston, was once married to Hedy Lamarr.

Mary Wickes is a total scream. Isn't she in The Man Who Came To Dinner, too? Now, Voyager is a favorite.

I recently watched "Now, Voyager" because it was about to leave HBOMax.

While the acting was great, the plot was fucking ridiculous. Sadly, I saw it through the prism of today, which rendered it unbelievable. A former mental patient is allowed to visit her doctor, eavesdrop on another patient, and then talk the doctor into allowing her to take that MINOR patient off the premises? And then the minor is allowed to share a bed with a strange woman and go live with her....

By the end I was cracking up.

Dora, I suspect you’re a treasure.

May problem with old movies is the racism. It was everywhere. Also homophobia, of course, but not as blatant, imo.

Bette despised the director, Irving Rapper.

She bad mouthed him repeatedly until she died, most hilariously on this 1986 Tonight Show appearance @ 4:30.

I remembered, r7, that’s all the nudge I needed. Thanks!

The only thing wrong with "Now, Voyager" is the child. Maybe it's me, because I also think that the only thing wrong with "The Women" is the child in that movie -- different actress, just as icky.

So, R1, "The Letter" wins for me because there are no fucking children! That, plus the brilliant opening scene -- BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! -- and dear Herbert Marshall as the cuckolded husband, not to mention James Stephenson as the hapless lawyer who can't avoid the truth forever.

There are no kids in Dark Victory, either, r19. That’s my pick for best melodrama. And they all star Miss Davis.

"The Old Maid" has never received as much attention as some of her other films, but Bette gives a wonderful performance opposite Miriam Hopkins.

It was released in 1939, the same year as "Dark Victory", which overshadowed it.

Tina is a stupid bitch and the old Mrs Vale is a mean old piece of shit.

No, thank you. I'd sooner drink a Coca-Cola than watch this.

What shameful item did Mother find in Bette's bookcase? Vibrators? Dildos? Playgirl?

R24 it was probably a black, double ended dong

"The Old Maid" and "Mr. Skeffington" are two wonderful films that get overshadowed by Bette's more flamboyant roles.

I always wondered why she did movies where she had relatively minor parts, like "The Man Who Came To Dinner", "Watch On The Rhine" and "Juarez".

My mom is exactly like that old bitch Mrs Vale

Dark Mirror--even middle-aged Bette was dynamite.

Mary Wickes steals the scene again.

That was brilliant, R17. Thanks for that.

Charlotte had already implied that she kept cigarettes and high-alcohol-content "medicine" hidden, when Dr. Jaquith visited her room, so I assume that's what her mother found.

There are only 10 movies that I love so much that I can watch them over and over..."Now Voyager" is one of them!!!

"Don't let us ask for the moon... We have the stars!"

She’s off to see Dr Jackass

[quote] Dark Mirror--even middle-aged Bette was dynamite.

Bette wasn't in Dark Mirror. That was the Olivia de Havilland movie where she played twins, one good and the other evil.

That dumb little bitch didn’t know how to use a phone.

Now, Voyager was a big disappointment for me after hearing how great it was. Bette was at her best with Wyler.

"Tina, you SIMP, get your shit together!"

Tina was beyond repair

Their idea of camping is hilarious

[quote] John Loder, who played Charlotte's fiance Elliot Livingston, was once married to Hedy Lamarr.

It's Hedley!

I like the fact that for years when this film appears on TCM, there is almost invariably a DL thread.

Oh, Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon; we have the stars.

Thanks for joining in, DL.

I bet Tina didn’t wear deodorant

The sailor Charlotte falls for when she's young was played by gay actor Charles Drake

Charlotte deserved more than a man who wouldn’t leave his manipulative wife. There was nothing remotely romantic about this movie.

So sorry, DL, the film was Dead Ringer. I'm duly spanked as the dumb bitch I am, you rude fucking cunt.

Davis did play twins in a different 1946 movie, A Stolen Life - it was pretty much a clunker.

The Old Maid final scene is the tearjerker to end all tearjerkers.

R31, I always assumed Charlotte had some form of pornography hidden away.

[quote] I always assumed Charlotte had some form of pornography hidden away.

She had some very special canapés hidden away.

R26, I know that Bette appeared in "Watch on the Rhine" as a favor to Jack Warner.

With Bette's name on the marquee, Warner felt he could cast Paul Lukas in the role he had originated on Broadway rather than a bigger name male star.

R49, I agree. It always makes me tear up. Bette gave a lesson in screen acting in about one minute.

Orry knew know to deal with those floobs by drawing the eyes up

Bette is the greatest American actress ever. It is always amazing to me that she was fairly homely but could still look completely stunning and glamorous in movies, including Now, Voyager and All About Eve. All About Eve is my favorite but also love her in The Little Foxes and ...Baby Jane. Now, Voyager, Dark Victory, and The Letter are all up there as well.

R55, Bette looked absolutely beautiful in "Jezebel".

Now, Voyager floor-length cape detail at the Smithsonian

The relationship with the mother is what makes this iconic and constantly watchable for me. Such a direct, early portrayal of the narcisstic mother destroying their children claiming devotion. Helped me fight my mothers endless, perpetual neediness for 50+ years.

[quote] Such a direct, early portrayal of the narcisstic mother destroying their children claiming devotion.

And that is negative in what way?

[quote] Such a direct, early portrayal of the narcisstic mother destroying their children claiming devotion.

Lessons learned.

[quote]Davis did play twins in a different 1946 movie, A Stolen Life - it was pretty much a clunker.

But Carol Burnett's version was wonderful.

Team The Letter.

Team Dark Victory!

The Letter team.

Dark Victory team!

Letter man.

Team prognosis negative!

Prognosis negative team!

Stabby Sondergaard Team!

Team Blindness then Death

STOP ROCKING!

You've never done anything to make your mother proud, or to make yourself proud either. Why, I should think you'd be ashamed to be born and live all your life as Charlotte Vale. Miss Charlotte Vale!

I still love the man I killed!

Have you no sense of obligation to your family or to me? Here you have the chance to join our name Vale with one of the finest families in the city, Livingston, and you come in here to tell me that you aren't in love. You're behaving like a romantic girl of eighteen.

I'm getting my high riding stone ice cold bitch practice in now; when I get older should like to be just like Mrs. Henry Vale!

Team Mary Wickes

Blindness Then Death team.

Mary Wickes team

Team Malicious Cell Regeneration!

Malicious Cell Regeneration team!

Nurse Dora Picford - I expect you're Miss Charlotte.

Charlotte Vale - Yes.

Nurse Dora Pickford - I tried to get down before you rang. Pickford is my name. Dora. I'm the nurse. We'd better not stand here gabbing. She has ears like a cat.

Charlotte Vale - What happened to her?

Nurse Dora Pickford - She's fit as a fiddle. She has a heart, but she denies it. At her age, who hasn't? It'll last years if she's not excited.

Charlotte Vale - How long has a nurse been necessary?

Nurse Pickford - It hasn't been. Mostly she's used us to fetch and carry There were a few others before me. They were just in and outers. I lasted a whole month! She sacked me since you're home. You better hurry in. When she waits, she gets mad. Then get the smelling salt. She's all dressed for the party... ...except for her gown. She's cute as a button. If you need help, I'm above, packing my duds

Mary Wickes was in about seven (6) films in 1942, and you can see why from Now Voyager alone. Bette Davis and Mary Wickes played off each other in those scenes so perfectly. The next scene that has them together when Nurse Dora answers Mrs. Henry Vale's litany of orders with "which first Queen Elizabeth?" is priceless. That Dora intercedes to act as a buffer against the echo Mrs. Henry Vale tries to illicit from Charlotte was not only good in film, but how a professional or someone who cares would subtly intercede into the fray.

Gayest movie ever?

Or would that be “I’ll Cry Tomorrow”?

[quote] Or would that be “I’ll Cry Tomorrow”?

Or perhaps it's "I Want to Live!" also with Miss Susan Hayward.

[R83]: You made a me guffaw, during this rachet, pandemic. "I suspect you're a treasure, Gay Wedding Planner". Apart from "All About Eve", "Now, Voyager" is my favorite Bette Davis' movie.

My mom tried to destroy me, but the joke was on her. Davis was an icon of the fuck-off attitude and ima gonna be me. So needed when one is growing up.

I found a copy of Susan Hayward’s “I Want to Live!” Which I’ve never seen.

What’s your opinion, worth it? I love some good camp, and I sense quite a bit of camp with this.

R86, it is indeed campy and has a moving climatic speech by Susan Hayward.

R87, Every gay man loves when she insists on not removing her heels on the way to the gas chamber because she looks better with them on.

R86, Ryan O'Neal once spent a night in jail years ago on a DUI and he said in an interview that another guy in jail with him that night swore he had fucked the real Barbara Graham's corpse while it was in the morgue.

Oh, Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon. We have the stars. This movie is a camp site. Swirls hand with lit cigarette like she’s having a conniption fit.

[quote]it is indeed campy and has a moving climatic speech by Susan Hayward.

I don't recall her discussing the weather.

Bette Davis entrance as the new overhauled Charlotte Vail is film magic. No, Ms. Davis wasn't a striking beauty, but with right clothes, camera angles, lighting and make-up..... Then throw in Bette Davis's superb acting skills.....

The way overhauled Charlotte Vail carries herself is streets different than the mousy terrified spinster all but taken out of that house in a straight jacket months before.

Body language of CV as spinster is of a character that wants to melt into background and hide. The "new" CV stands her ground and dominates scenes, this builds up to the final show down she has with her mother.

R92, There were scenes filmed of Charlotte's weight loss and cosmetic transformation, but they were edited out to make her shipboard entrance more dramatic.

A still from the deleted makeover scene

Who is the woman in black at r94? I quite liked her. Did she play Charlotte’s sister in law?

Good info, r93, I didn’t know that, and I thought I knew everything.

R94. That was Ilks Chase, a well-known figure at the time as a Broadway actress (original cast of The Women), writer of humorous essays and books—a celebrity in her day.

I'm telling you NOW, voyager, so I don't have to tell you THEN (voyager.)

Without cheating, can you name the poet for which Now, Voyager is titled?

Extra credit if you can name the poem itself.

No cheating or the dowager Mrs. Vale will slap you, viciously.

I did that wrong at r99.

Can you name the poem for which Now, Voyager is titled?

Extra credit if you can name the poet himself.

[quote] I don't recall her discussing the weather.

Oops. "Oh dear" indeed.

Love this movie

The Untold Want by Walt Whitman, R100

Well done, r103! You win an eyebrow waxing.

But are we Team Back Bay Vales or Team Beacon Hill Vales?

The scene at the train station platform clearly states “Back Bay,” r105. Makes them sound rather cheap, no?

Pedigree is everything.

Well, if you lived on Beacon Hill, R106, at least on the side facing the Common, you'd entrain from Back Bay Station: it's closer than South Station.

I would never be seen doing such a thing, r108. Never.

Walt Whitman. Don’t recall the specific poem.

Well done, r110. You win one eyebrow waxing.

One. Not both.

A very young but certainly entrepreneurial Mr. Wahlberg freuqented both the Back Bay - "The Block" (actually it was two blocks but who's counting?) between the Ritz-Carlton and the old Greyhound Station - and a certain Beacon Hill antique store. You wouldn't think a tough kid from Dorchester would be interested in antiques, but you never know.

Although the "what" has changed somewhat, then as now people bought what he was selling. It was more "one-on-one" then, I guess you'd say.

I Sing The Body Electric

No one has topped that. Walt Whitman was about a millenium ahead of his time.

[quote] Well done, R110.

Not well done. He could've just read half of R103.

Is that true, r110? Come closer, closer...

Oh come now, r113, everybody knows that Walt Whitman ripped that off from “Fame.”

[quote] Oh come now, R113, everybody knows that Walt Whitman ripped that off from “Fame.”

No he ripped it of from "The Twilight Zone".

[quote]Such a direct, early portrayal of the narcisstic mother destroying their children claiming devotion.

Exactly.

Hideous, masochistic, misogynistic shit.

A woman has no choice between subservience to family demands or subservience to love (meaning an unattainable man).

SACRIFICE!

Utter hatred for women.

And of course women sucked it up like it was a pool of melted ice cream.

I am the unibrow of virginity, cloven by love!

r119 she got over her unrequited love. And you're probably late for your menstrual hut bitching session.

She did indeed overcome, r119. Remember the time. This act was revolutionary for its time.

As with all mass changes, they accrued in drips. Celebrate Charlotte Vale here. Her place was as an unsuspecting warrior and she wore it well (Gowns by Orry-Kelly.)

is it a talky?

r119 is so tender to the touch!

Ilka Chase! The original Sylvia Fowler!

R123 is the eldergay who has to bash "millennials" in every thread

Oh be kind to r119, she’s right, with an asterisk.

To watch this movie nowadays is infuriating to any modern woman. R119, respectfully, just fails to see that this movie is an artifact of its time, and time has changed things. We can look back and laugh.

This is why we watch this movie and howl out laughing when Charlotte tells her her mother, her doctor and her lover what’s what. Charlotte comes into her own. We know this is bs, we recognize what’s camp.

Ilka Chase was the daughter of Vogue’s editor in Chief, the pre-Wintour!

That would be Edna Woolman Chase!

I’m most fascinated with Mary Wickes and Claude Rains.

I thought Claude was very attractive here, very subdued, whereas Mary cracked me up out loud to the point I wondered why she never got a sitcom. I mean, Josephine the plumber just doesn’t measure up to her capabilities.

Mary Wikes was one of the all-time greatest show business dykes.

Mary Wickes, I mean. This board needs an edit function.

R130, Josephine the Plumber (Jane Withers) never got a sit-com either.

And Jane Withers was a much better actress than Mary Wickes. So she really should have had a sit-com

So dizzy I’ve fallen down

R62 Dead Ringer! Bette was great at playing twins...

Dead Ringer is hilarious. Bette Davis is only supposed to be around 40 in the movie, but she was in her mid-50s and looked mid-60s. And everybody was constantly smoking, even ancient old Mildred Natwick.

Bette's wig in that movie was one of the most hideous wigs of all time.

R137. That was ancient Estelle Wineood—Mildred Natwick wasn’t ancient yet—she would play Jane Fonda’s middle-aged mother s few years later in Barefoot in the Park, receiving her only Oscar nomination for it.

Mildred Natwick was even in 1988's Dangerous Liaisons playing John Malkovich's aunt.

It's a great title.

[quote]Ilka Chase! The original Sylvia Fowler!

And Julie Andrews' stepmother in the original R&H "Cinderella" (1957), here with stepsisters Kaye Ballard and Alice Ghostley.

How much has it gotta hurt to be cast as an ugly stepsister?

^^Kaye Ballard, in an interview for the "Cinderella" DVD extras, talks about getting the call saying that R&H were interested in her for "Cinderella." "What role?" she asked. "One of the ugly stepsisters, of course," she was told. I guess her feelings were a little hurt, but she was good-humored about it.

At least Angela Lansbury got to be a lovely teapot in Beauty and the Beast. She had little teacups and no one played her for old.

I love so many of Bette's movies that I'm not going to pick a favorite. But more mention should be made of:

Mr. Skeffington

The Great Lie

and of course

Old Acquaintance

I’ll agree with r145, Bette was brilliant in movies that still were scarred.

I used to remember her entire filmography, pretty sure I’m right.

In The Nanny, Bette played an aging Charlotte Vale minus the makeover.

And Joan envied her eyebrows, r147

Dead Ringer was great--the horrible sister, the clothes changing, the nice guy waiting in the wings. Tacky, but great.

And don't forget Miss Lina Lamont, r149!

Dead Ringer is hilarious.

Back Bay Vales team

Beacon Hill Vales team

So Bette did TWO evil/good twin sister movies?

Yes.

Mary Wickes also plays Davis’s gal Friday in the OTT pilot (never aired) THE DECORATOR!

Circa 1986, The Regency in NYC did a Bette festival. Each week they'd show two different films. It was wonderful to see them on a big screen and it was the first time I got to see:

The Corn is Green

The Old Maid

Deception

Beyond the Forest

[quote]Dead Ringer is hilarious.

And, bringing this thread full circle, "Dead Ringer" was directed by her "Now, Voyager" co-star, Paul Henreid.

^^ . . . ask for the moon"

We have the stars.

I accidentally sent that message prematurely, so I not only didn't complete the famous line from "Now, Voyager," I typed "lets" instead of "let's."

Change that famous line.

Oh Jerry, don’t let’s ask for the moon. We have SARS.

Oh Jerry, don’t let’s snort from a spoon, we have the bars.

Bette Davis and Paul Henreid together in their later years. They both kind of look drunk as shit here.

Bette Davis thinks Charlotte Vale should have ended up with Dr. Jaquith in a clip from the Dick Cavett Show (November 8, 1971)...

R159, And that young woman playing Bette's maid was Paul Henreid's daughter.

R141, Ilka also guest starred as Aunt Pauline in an episode of "The Patty Duke Show".

"For the next few years, Ilka Chase endured a series of bit parts—mostly maids—with Walker, then with companies headed by Henry Miller and George Cukor. While touring in Rochester with Cukor, she met and fell in love with the elegant actor Louis Calhern.

They were married in 1926 but divorced less than a year later, after which Calhern remarried his ex-wife Julia Hoyt . (Purportedly, Chase sent Hoyt a box of her unused calling cards, elegantly engraved "Mrs. Louis Calhern," with a note saying, "I hope these reach you in time.") Following the divorce, Chase stayed in London with her mother, trying, without success, to find work on the English stage."

Davis and Henried, 22 years after Now, Voyager on the set of Dead Ringer...

Just put her back on Broad...Way!

That Dead Ringer wig was atrocious.

Was Bette Davis never without a cigarette?

I see photos of the older Bette Davis and all I can think of is cigarette and whiskey breath.

The reading of her will.

[quote]Was Bette Davis never without a cigarette?

Was she puffing away when she played Queen Elizabeth I?

She was puffing away as Baby Jane.

I was an extra on Disappearance of Aimee. She *always* had a cigarette between her fingers from her trailer and back to her trailer. Afterwards, I regretted not looking for one of her lipstick-stained butts in her path. I mean, if you're going to have a Bette souvenir, what would be more appropriate?

She didn't smoke as Baby Jane.

Amazing Bette lived to a relatively old age with all the drinking and smoking. It really did take a toll on her looks, though. She got haggy looking pretty fast.

The novel is freely available on Google Books for anyone who cares. Unlike the movie, it opens on the terrace cafe scene, and the story of Charlotte's life is told in flashback.

I never understood why Bette married her third husband, William Grant Sherry.

What did she see in him?

Go on! Make fun of me! You think it's fun making fun of me!

Bette watching Sherry and his stick.

Bette had a habit of marrying men who were in no way on her financial level or as successful as her. It caused a lot of problems. Of course, it was a very different time when people "had" to get married, so to speak. In the modern world, a woman like Bette would've just had affairs with men like this but back in those days that just wasn't done. People had to get married. That's why all those old movie stars had multiple marriages. No celebrities today have been married four or five times like the older stars were.

R181, Sherry remained married to his second wife for 53 years until his death, 14 years after Bette died.

[quote]I never understood why Bette married her third husband, William Grant Sherry.

Didn't she kill one of her husbands? (Not Sherry, obviously.)

Her second husband Arthur Fansworth was a raging alcoholic who took a tumble down the stairs and that caused a bloot clot in his brain that killed him a couple weeks later.

The actor Jeffery Hunter died exactly the same way.

[quote]Her second husband Arthur Fansworth was a raging alcoholic who took a tumble down the stairs

Are we certain he wasn't pushed?

[quote]Circa 1986, The Regency in NYC did a Bette festival. Each week they'd show two different films. It was wonderful to see them on a big screen and it was the first time I got to see:

R158 You are one lucky guy. Wow.

[quote]Bette watching Sherry and his stick.

Sherry was hot as fuck!

Didn't Sherry cuckold Bette with their nanny?

R193 They had a child?? Name please.

Gary Merrill was none to shabby, either.

Gary Merrill was an abusive alcoholic. He would be in jail in today's world.

Sherry left Bette for B.D.'s nanny. He had a son with the nanny, he posts on a Facebook group I belong to

You Prince!

R197, Sherry also had a daughter with the nanny.

Children: B. D. Hyman, John Grant Sherry, Jenny Michelle Sherry

Spouse: Marion Richards (m. 1950–2003), Bette Davis (m. 1945–1950)

Wow, didn’t know that Gary Merrill was a cad, what a disappointment. Did Bette hate him publicly like she did Crawford?

If you read biographies and autobiographies of the classic Hollywood stars, it's amazing how many men back then smacked women around. It was just a part of life. Pretty sick.

Geez, give us a minute to breathe

Bette placed a plaque in the woods in New Hampshire in memory of Arthur Farnsworth. Apparently they met there when she was roughing it Now Voyager-style, and he died at the house they later bought and refurbished nearby.

He collapsed and died on a street in Hollywood.

I don’t think I get TCM. I can’t even remember the name of my cable service they’ve changed it so many times

R170, what a sexy image. I hope someone looks at me like that when I'm past it.

Farnsworth did die in LA, but the cause of death was skull fracture and cerebral hemorrhage he suffered in New Hampshire two weeks before. Bette reported the incident to the coroner, saying he was running down stairs to answer the phone in his stocking feet, slid on the steps, and cracked his head when he fell.

R205, this thread is from yesterday’s listing, you won’t find the movie at TMC today.

Poor fool, don’t you know I’m in love with you?

R182, what did she see in him? Gee, I don’t know, he looked good in hats?

That must be it.

R32 What are the others?

Sherry was BD's father.

Were Celeste Holme and Bette Davis friends off camera?

[quote]Were Celeste Holme and Bette Davis friends off camera?

Not one little bit.

No.

[quote]Were Celeste Holme and Bette Davis friends off camera?

You're joking, right?

Ha! So how about some elaboration, r213, r214 and r215

You're welcome.

Very sexy at R192.

Bette liked her some hunks. I also remember her having a blond, muscular marine officer as one of her beaus.

She locks her door, doctor. Make a note of it.

For decades, the two Edwardian beauties Gladys Cooper and Cathleen Nesbitt competed for the same roles. Since Cooper became the better known through her film work, Nesbitt usually got cast when Cooper declined or was unavailable.

Nesbitt was cast as Henry Higgins' mother in the original Broadway cast of My Fair Lady. Cooper, or course, got the part in George Cukor's film version.

But Nesbitt had the last laugh. In the early 1980s, Rex Harrison played a final farewell tour in My Fair Lady and Nesbitt was again cast as his mother. The tour played a sit down for several months in New York. There they were again, Nesbitt in her **90s** and Harrison in his 70s as her son. Their scenes together were wonderful and the only really good thing in a lackluster revival.

R220, I saw that final tour when it played Boston in 1981. Nesbitt received considerable applause at her first entrance. The producers housed her in the closest hotel to the theatre they could find in deference to her age.

In her younger days, Cooper was quite the trend setter in London. If she wore a hat or scarf or a piece of jewelry a certain way, it became the rage.

Don't forget Cathy sitting on her throne, goin' up and down those stairs on The Farmer's Daughter!

Gladys had...The Rogues.

Gladys Cooper's younger sister, Doris, had a much less successful acting career, mostly in minor roles. In her early days, she was dismayed that her entrances were greeted by what sounded like the audience hissing at her, but in fact it was people turning to one another and whispering, "That's Gladys Cooper's sister!"

[quote]For decades, the two Edwardian beauties Gladys Cooper and Cathleen Nesbitt competed for the same roles. Since Cooper became the better known through her film work, Nesbitt usually got cast when Cooper declined or was unavailable.

Gladys Cooper and Cathleen Nesbitt appear together in the 1958 film "Separate Tables," an Oscar nominee for best picture and an Oscar winner for David Niven (best actor) and Wendy Hiller (best supporting actress). It was based on two one-act plays by Terence Rattigan.

One of my all time favorite movie scenes is with David Niven in that movie R225. Although it seems odd to call it a favorite because it is so agonizing to watch.

It's the scene when he comes down for breakfast after the newspaper has printed their story of his arrest. You feel his discomfort and pain in great detail - it's brief but seems to go on forever.

He was completely brilliant in it and very much deserved that Oscar.

David Niven was a wonderful actor.

Isn't this movie really creepy in the way it implies she got drunk in the cabin in Rio and lost her inhibitions to a married man, fell in love and thus had to be punished... Hayes code - can't be happy at the end- Both Jerry and Charlotte "Camille" are a-ok with Charlotte practically adopting Jerry's daughter, a perfect stranger whom she meets in a mental institution as a fellow patient, and the doctor thinks this is also a-ok. Jerry is perfectly fine with the daughter living with Charlotte even though he's only spent time away with her in a foreign country. And the no-good mother is apparently fine with this, too.

But, Charlotte must be persecuted and they "have to be right" at the end so they can't be together because she had sex with a married man. Ugh.

I do love it when the old battle axe Mrs. Vale dies at the end after Charlotte tells her off.

It's amazing what was prohibited under the Hayes code. Just ridiculous stuff that even in those days wasn't terribly controversial.

Bette talked about her marriages in this 60 Minutes interview, pre-stroke. She mentioned that Sherry often slapped her around as well.

Bette had said she filed for divorce after Sherry threw a heavy object at her while she was holding B. D..

B. D. reestablished a relationship with Sherry after "My Mother's Keeper" was published.

Oh fuck off, r228.

[quote] I do love it when the old battle axe Mrs. Vale dies at the end after Charlotte tells her off.

The ending of Now, Voyager is one of the most famous in Hollywood movies, and no, it does not end at the death of Mrs. Vale.

Yes, but Mrs. Vale thought that it ended with her.

On now. I don't know why they're showing it so soon.

Mary Wickes was a big ole lez.

[quote]Mary Wickes was a big ole lez.

Like so many other fine character actresses.

Mary Wickes FTW!

The script is brilliant. The way Charlotte gradually transforms her relationship with her mother is pure genius. She never goes head-to-head with her; instead, she builds empathy, like in this brief exchange.

[quote]What person sent the flowers?

[quote]There wasn't any card.

[quote]In other words, you don't intend to tell me.

[quote]Mother, I don't want to be disagreeable or unkind. I've come home to live with you again, here in the same house. But it can't be in the same way. I've been living my own life, making my own decisions for a long while now. It's impossible to go back to being treated like a child again. I don't think I'll do anything of importance that will displease you, but, Mother, from now on you must give me complete freedom, including deciding what I wear, where I sleep, what I read...

[quote]Where did you get that dress?

[quote]Lisa and I bought it in New York today.

[quote]It's outrageous. Where's the black-and-white foulard?

[quote]I gave it to Miss Till. She was so grateful.

[quote]Mother, please be fair and meet me halfway.

And later...

[quote]I'm very glad to give a devoted daughter a home under my roof and pay all her expenses, but not if she scorns my authority.

[quote]Well, I could earn my own living, Mother. I've often thought about it. I'd make a good head waitress in a restaurant or...

[quote]You may think that very funny. But I guess you'll be laughing out of the other side of your face if I did carry out my suggestion.

[quote]I don't think I would. I'm not afraid, Mother. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid, Mother.

[quote]Charlotte, sit down. I want you to know something I've never told you before. It's about my will. You'll be the most powerful and wealthy member of the Vale family, if I don't change my mind.

On tomorrow at 5:45 p.m. Eastern.

Mother, I have something else to tell you... I have a large black dildo in my bureau and I intend to use it on myself tonight after you have gone to sleep.

Her traveling clothes while she's on the ship might be the best clothes ever worn by a woman in a movie.

[quote] Well, I could earn my own living, Mother. I've often thought about it. I'd make a good head waitress in a restaurant or...

I have always loved this line.

Why would she presume she'd be made the HEAD waitress? Just because she's a Vale of Boston? She's had zero experience waiting tables.

I’m an old woman my dear, I know all about masturbatory sex.

[quote] I don't think I would. I'm not afraid, Mother. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid, Mother.

I also love this line. She says it like this:

(Matter-of-factly) "I don't think I would. I'm not afraid, Mother." (Slowly realizing the importance of what she's just said, as she says it again to sound it out to herself) "I'm not afraid..." (Now to her mother, happy and free) "I'm not afraid, Mother!"

Charles Busch has OFTEN imitated this line for his plays. It's so funny when she says the final "I'm not afraid, mother!" to Mrs. Vale (as if she expects her mother to be glad for her), when of course her mother wants nothing more than for Charlotte to remain afraid of living outside the Vale mansion.

The scenes with her mother, brilliantly played by Gladys Cooper, are standouts.

[quote]Her traveling clothes while she's on the ship might be the best clothes ever worn by a woman in a movie.

Orry-Kelly really knew how to design for Bette Davis. Here's Manolo Blahnik on the subject...

Omg! It's about to start!

Tina was a pain in the ass to watch.

[quote] Tina was a pain in the ass t

So was the large black dildo in Charlotte's bureau

Her two-tone shoes were fabulous!

It has a lush Max Steiner score. (All Max Steiner scores were "lush")

What shall I call you?

Well, let’s see... You can call me Carlotta, Charlie or a name I was once called - cunt.

Oh, I like that one! I’ll call you cunt!

R249, I agree with you about Tina. But Claude Rains made up for her and then some. He always did, in everything.

Why didn't she continue to do her carvings in her new life? Or is that considered old maid busy work?

Until this viewing I'd not noticed how symmetrical it is even in the smallest details.

Why did you call me Camille?/It's the only French name I know. Except for Fifi. /I suppose that's meant to be funny.

Why did you call me cunt?

It’s the only name I know to call you besides bitch.

Charlotte, where did you get that dress?

Lisa and I shoplifted it in New York today.

It’s outrageous. It makes you look like a retard. Take it off so I can rub my prune-pussy on it.

I could earn my own living, Mother. I’ve often thought about it. I give good head from what I’ve been told. I could go into business.

You may think that’s very funny but I think you’re sucking air up your ass.

I don’t think I am. I’m not afraid to turn tricks for a living, Mother. I’m not afraid of doing anal either.

Hee hee

I love the Fake Now, Vouager Dialogue Troll. I wish he’d do the no one compares to my lovemaking scene.

Vouager = Voyager

Where's Dora? I want Dora.

I want my ass rubbed , my piss pad fixed and another cup of hooch.

- Which first, Queen Elizabeth? - Ass rubbed.

Mmm. That's good. Don't stop.

You're a good girl, Dora.

A good, devoted girl.

You wouldn't stick your nose up my ass, would you, Dora?

You're talking absolute horseshit.

One of my favorite moments is when Mama Vale is talking to Charlotte, who is in another room. All you see is the hand of Mama wrapped around the bedpost and she is tapping her fingernails against the wood. You can almost feel the resentment in all those taps.

I love the way Gladys Cooper pronounces "secretiveness" at the beginning. Every time I see/hear that I imagine Charlotte secreting slime like a snail.

Yes, we need new fake dialogue for when she Charlotte gets caught giving the sailor a hand job.

Why, when Tina said she fantasized about pissing on on me,

Well, it was like a goddamned nightmare...

Like I want your child to piss on me, that would be like a fucking mule pissing on me.

I did allow myself to indulge in the fantasy, that both of us were beating the shit out of her.

I know what's best for her, and beating her ass would actually make her seem like our child after a while.

Overwrought but fabulous film.

I like the scene where the new Charlotte is revealed. The other passengers are waiting for her and one man says something like She hasn't stuck her nose out of her cabin the whole trip. But of course when she appears he is agog at her supposed gorgeousness.

R252: Not always. Watch "A Summer Place". The theme and main music are lush, but the incidental music isn't--he uses film noir type cues to punctuate key points in the plot, because Sandra Dee and Troy Donahue were such awful actors, Steiner is really the one who advances the story. You can skip watching the film and wait for his crescendos to to know when the story driving dialogue is around, so you don't miss "Oh Johnny, let's not be bad".

You wouldn’t stick your nose up my ass, would you, Dora?

R268 is fucking hilarious! Hilarious 😂

[quote]All you see is the hand of Mama wrapped around the bedpost and she is tapping her fingernails against the wood. You can almost feel the resentment in all those taps.

It's brilliant direction. To say so much with such economy; a close-up on a hand.

R243. I always assumed by “Head waitress,” she meant what we today would call the “hostess” of the restaurant—the cultured youngish woman (back then) who greeted customers, handled reservations, and seated patrons at their tables. Not an actual hash slinger like Mildred Pierce started out as.

I could earn my own living, Mother. I’ve often thought about it. I give good head from what I’ve been told. I could go into business.

[quote] Gowns by Orry-Kelly

[quote] "For the next few years, Ilka Chase endured a series of bit parts—mostly maids—with Walker, then with companies headed by Henry Miller and George Cukor. While touring in Rochester with Cukor, she met and fell in love with the elegant actor Louis Calhern. They were married in 1926 but divorced less than a year later, after which Calhern remarried his ex-wife Julia Hoyt.

Louis Calhern divorced Julia Hoyt in 1932, after which he was married to Lovey Howell herself, Natalie Schafer, from 1933 to 1942. Calhern was married and divorced four times.

Omg! It's about to start.

It's on again starting now.

Are we getting into botany? Are we flowers?