British author and intellectual. Who's had him? I really think he's so intelligent, handsome, and witty. I was happy to learn that he is family. He is not very well known here in the United States, unfortunately. Maybe none of you have had him. I can't imagine he would be into whores like you.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||19 hours ago|
|by Anonymous||reply 1||08/17/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 2||08/17/2020|
[quote]I can't imagine he would be into whores like you.
Mind your own fucking business OP.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||08/17/2020|
His partner is Richard Armitage.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||08/17/2020|
R4 checked Wikipedia which doesnt say anything about a partner, but the site below say he was engaged to a female woman of the opposite sex in 2016 but broke that off and he's single now. But who knows, ya could be right. I wouldnt know
OP is right though, Douglas Murray is rather nice, intelligent and cute with it. And probably not into a whore like me
|by Anonymous||reply 5||08/17/2020|
Anyone who calls someone else an "intellectual" deserves the horror of being with someone who considers himself an "intellectual."
|by Anonymous||reply 6||08/17/2020|
He is so so far right, even the conservatives have disowned him.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||08/17/2020|
I prefer his more progressive pal and kindred spirit, fellow gay man Andrew Doyle.
Murray is, of course, just as closed-minded (and unable to see things from anything other than the perspective of his own cloistered, book-lined world) as the "woke" people he routinely excoritates. Use the word "intersectionality" around him, OP; he hates it and will hiss at you.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||08/17/2020|
*Excoriates, apologies for the typo
|by Anonymous||reply 9||08/17/2020|
R8 I have seen him get quite pissed off in interviews. If he were my man I would rub his shoulders after hard days at the office like that :)
|by Anonymous||reply 10||08/17/2020|
r8 "woke" and "intersectionality" are both concepts obviously deserving of mockery.
What's the problem?
Murray's hawt - and correct.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||08/17/2020|
D.M.'s partner is from South America. Not an actor. Been together for over ten years.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||08/17/2020|
“You MUST find Caitlyn Jenner attractive, and if you don’t want to sleep with her, then you’re transphobic!“
|by Anonymous||reply 13||08/17/2020|
R12 I’m not a homewrecker. I’m glad he is happily partnered.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||08/17/2020|
R14: they were said to have broken up last year. I remember reading about it here.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||08/17/2020|
That's not at all what I heard, r15.
Last I heard they were on holiday together in France before the UK declared quarantine from travellers from France. That was a few weeks ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||08/17/2020|
I know Douglas Murray is gay but never knew Doyle @ Titania McGrath also family. A perfect antithesis to that annoying Owen Jones.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||08/17/2020|
r17 They just locked him/her/it out of twitter for questioning ...dogma
|by Anonymous||reply 18||08/17/2020|
Isn't Douglas Murray just another version of Andrew Sullivan?
|by Anonymous||reply 19||08/17/2020|
Not even close. Andrew Sullivan wishes he were one eight as eloquent as Douglas Murray.
Murray really is in a class of his own.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||08/18/2020|
Let me just oh dear myself: not 'one eight', but rather 'one eighth'
|by Anonymous||reply 21||08/18/2020|
R8 You say "book-lined world" as if it's a term of abuse.
Do you want him to live in the Twitter-world?
|by Anonymous||reply 22||08/18/2020|
Meanwhile, a California bookstore has put Titania McGrath's "Woke" on their table display of "books that diversity, equity [sic] and inclusivity"
|by Anonymous||reply 23||08/18/2020|
Let me just oh dear myself: Books that 'focus on' blah blah blah
|by Anonymous||reply 24||08/18/2020|
R23 You can't expect booksellers to know what's inside the books they sell. Most booksellers could just as well be selling cheese or power drills.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||08/18/2020|
It's still hilarious, r25.
Perhaps booksellers ought to take a peek inside some of their wares every once and a while.
Just a thought.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||08/18/2020|
R8 You say he hates "intersectionality".
I don't like it either. I don't see the point of people obsessing over their particular labels. They display their label so they can identify and pour hatred upon other label-wearers more quickly and more vociferously.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||08/18/2020|
My house burned down two and a half years ago, along with all my books - nearly a thousand, collected from my teens.
It's been painful to live without my - as r8 puts it - 'booklined world'.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||08/18/2020|
R28 fuck thats awful, hope you've been able to replace at least some of them
|by Anonymous||reply 29||08/18/2020|
I watch his videos on YouTube. Hot.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||08/18/2020|
Thanks, v8fairy. I was in shock for a while and the insurance didn't cover books (or much else aside from the structure - my fault as I never thought something like this could happen).
And now, I'm slightly frit about owning too many possessions. I now keep everything extremely trim.
New house is very small, but good, has a proper fire, and I think, now, that is all I need.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||08/18/2020|
R18 SJWs and the transtapo are such humorless cunts. I read that thread and it was hilarious.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||08/18/2020|
Love Titania McGrath. She doesn't sound that much different from some of our more "woke" DLers.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||08/18/2020|
Does he have an OnlyFans?
|by Anonymous||reply 34||08/18/2020|
[quote] My house burned down two and a half years ago, along with all my books - nearly a thousand, collected from my teens.
People who collect books don't actually read them
|by Anonymous||reply 35||08/18/2020|
R34 Quite the opposite: he has quiet British dignity.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||08/18/2020|
Sorry about your house and your books, R28!!
|by Anonymous||reply 37||08/18/2020|
Andrew Doyle is the real deal: smart, funny, down to earth, kind, and does not respond to gay-baiting straight interviewers!
|by Anonymous||reply 38||08/18/2020|
Oh poor R28. How terrible for you. I feel your pain. My home is full of books I have spent decades collecting. Along the way used book stores/estate & garage sales and the like mostly replaced buying at regular book stores. I have come across amazing discoveries amid junk and discarded items. I think I got as much enjoyment out of the hunt as I did out of the reading. So nothing can take that away from me. I recently culled them and gave away about 400 of them. I need to weed through them again. It gets easier to do as you get older.
Maybe adopt a library or a section of a library, maybe even at a school - do schools still have libraries? After my mom died we wanted to honor what was important to her so one of the things we did was to adopt a room at a local library in her memory.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||08/18/2020|
Thanks, r37, and thanks -that is good advice, r39.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||08/18/2020|
Let me introduce you to the Kindle
|by Anonymous||reply 41||08/18/2020|
So nobody here has been fucked by Douglas?
|by Anonymous||reply 42||08/18/2020|
Had no idea Andrew Doyle was gay. When it was revealed he was the person behind Titania McGrath there were countless articles from the ‘trans women are women’ brigade decrying his misogyny for pretending to be a woman. Maybe it’s to his credit he didn’t accuse them of homophobia and defend his right to drag up.
As for Murray, I find a lot of his views abhorrent but in a world of ‘defund the police!’ ‘Abolish border control’ ‘refugees welcome’ and ‘trans women are women’, that he is able to articulate his views with more clarity than many on the left without resorting to hashtags and slogans makes him an effective campaigner.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||08/18/2020|
R43 Are you able to tell us which of his views that you find abhorrent?
|by Anonymous||reply 44||08/19/2020|
R8. I've spent some time trying to figure out what intersectionality is. And I've concluded that I don't need to know what it is
|by Anonymous||reply 45||08/19/2020|
R42 only in my dreams.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||08/19/2020|
[quote][R43] Are you able to tell us which of his views that you find abhorrent?
His frequent defence of Trump, as a starter.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||08/19/2020|
I've stopped watching things he shows up in. I do enjoy his eloquence and I want to hear viewpoints to the right of my lefty one, but he seems to be set on being an anti-woke pop star rather than a serious commentator--lots of sneering, not enough argument.
In the wake of the George Floyd demonstrations, I found a lot of compelling black intellectuals who don't show up in pop media, for example, Glen Loury and Adolph Reed.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||08/19/2020|
R48: people more widely known than the likes of Glenn Loury, Coleman Hughes, and John McWhorter have been recommending their work (books, journalism, and podcasts), so hopefully they will gain some more visibility soon. Coleman Hughes will rise to prominence in the next few years, with more appearances in mainstream media.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||08/19/2020|
I'd say there are few commentators more serious than Douglas Murray, r48. He's one of the few public intellectuals in the UK who has not been reduced to merely spouting baseless wokeisms. He actually uses facts and research rather than feelings and anecdotes. Every time he speaks, he backs up what he says with hard research.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||08/19/2020|
The sole purpose of intersectionality is to create an "us" vs White Jewish and Christian heterosexuals. That is all. It is failing as people become more aware of this identity politics nonsense during the past few month.
Douglas Murray senses where all this is leading to and it is not a good place for the gays or lesbians. You may call his ideas "abhorrent," which probably makes you feel good about yourself, but he is widely traveled, widely read, quite brilliant, and an excellent, and often funny, writer. His book, The Madness of Crowds is a must read. R47, I have never once heard him defend Trump, let alone frequently.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||08/19/2020|
Months not month
|by Anonymous||reply 52||08/19/2020|
^. I also don't remember Murray defending the current US President. But there may be something in The Spectator which is behind a paywall.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||08/19/2020|
I agree with Trump and Douglas on this.
Douglas' favored question when the woke/identity politics crowded rants about how terrible western history and the current state of supposedly oppressive countries.....compared to what? This crowd is quite ignorant of history or the truth of how many live because of tribalism, lack of education, corruption, religious idiocy, over population and a host of other reasons, yet this crowd says nothing of that. They say nothing of the 26 million people currently enslaved, or the horrific treatment of gays or lesbians, or how academics, scientists and free thinkers are routinely tortured or massacred on streets. Yet, it is the west that is "problematic" and deserving to be destroyed. These same people would be burnt alive in many other countries.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||08/19/2020|
ahright, that's one example. One example does not equal frequent. What else ya got?
|by Anonymous||reply 55||08/19/2020|
His views aside, has anybody hooked up with Douglas? That is what inquiring minds want to know.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||08/21/2020|
All these conservative/libertarian/anti-woke types tend to exclusively invite like-minded thinkers on their podcasts and talk shows: here we have Douglas Murray on Joe Rogan, Douglas Murray on Dave Rubin, there's Coleman Hughes with Sam Harris, Coleman Hughes on Triggernometry, Coleman Hughes with Glenn Loury talking about Thomas Sowell, Coleman Hughes on John Anderson's talk show, Coleman Hughes with Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson with John Anderson, Lawrence Fox on Triggernometry, Lawrence Fox with Peter Whittle, Lawrence Fox with Darren Grimes, and so on.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||08/22/2020|
You've written out a very exhaustive list there, R57. Did you watch any of them?
I realise an hour long YouTube discussion is an investment of time but you must have watched a bit of some of them to have an opinion.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||08/22/2020|
That old ratbag Leftie Clive James commented on Murray's 'The Strange Death of Europe'—
"Douglas Murray's introduction to this already destructive subject of Islamist hegemony is a distinguished attempt to clarify the origins of a storm.
I found myself continually wishing that he wasn't making himself quite so clear.”
|by Anonymous||reply 59||08/22/2020|
Murray is one of the few journos left who will address uncomfortable truths, particularly about the myth that multiculturalism is the alpha and omega of any society anywhere on Earth at any time in history.
His discomfort with Islam as a gay man is quite understandable. Poll of British Muslims in recent years showed more a substantial percentage thought homosexuality a crime that should be punishable in law.
This is from The Guardian in 2016 (mind, The Guardian: not the Express:
"Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds
Survey for Channel 4 documentary finds 23% want sharia law but most feel strong connection with Britain
. . . . Extensive polling conducted by ICM suggests that in most cases attitudes held by the British Muslim population do not broadly differ from those held by the population at large, but there are significant differences when it comes to some issues such as homosexuality and women’s rights.
Trevor Phillips, the former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said the findings were “extremely worrying” as they suggested on many issues Muslims were “nation within a nation”.
He called for a more “muscular approach” to integration."
Phillips, by the way, is black. He has for years been a strong critic of Britain's policy of laissez-faire multiculturalism rather than integration and assimilation.
It's nonsense to call Murray out for his concerns as a gay man and pretend that there are no issues here.
I've read him in The Spectator for years. I don't agree with every position he takes, but I do admire his refusal to be intimidated by the Woke tyrants and his courage in taking positions that are in many ways shared by those afraid to say so.
And he's a fluid and fine writer.
I haven't had him but would very much like to.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||08/22/2020|
^Trevor Phillips says some surprising things
|by Anonymous||reply 61||08/22/2020|
Jesus Christ. Murray is a very far right conservative author and political commentator.
He started the hard right-wing think tank the Centre for Social Cohesion.
He's also a nasty cunt.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||08/22/2020|
R58: I have listened to a lot of those interviews (I certainly don't mind a 2-hour chat at all if it's interesting enough) and actually subscribe to some of these people's channels. I was commenting on the fact that podcast "culture" can get very cliquey and cozy, with hosts mainly or exclusively inviting people whose ideas and opinions broadly align with their own. We'll soon get to a point where all these podcasters have interviewed each other multiple times.
I do think people like The Cosmic Skeptic (atheist philosophy student at Oxford) and the aforementioned Coleman Hughes (young black Columbia philosophy graduate and musician) are remarkable and am often impressed by the caliber of guests they interview on their respective podcasts. For example, both have interviewed the Australian philosopher Peter Singer in the past year.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||08/22/2020|
The crank left really are making it easy for the likes of Murray to get their arguments across.
This is a left wing commentator, concerned at the 55 year sentence given to the brother of the Manchester Arena Ariana Grande concert bombe, where 23 people (mostly young girls and women) were killed and 800 injured. Because the man was under the age of 21 when he planned the attack with his brother couldn't be given a whole life sentence so the judge gave him the maximum tariff.
This was after testimony from the families of the victims, including the mother of fabulous gay man Martyn Hett, who said that she can't go to bed before 10.31, the time of the bomb, because she is wracked with guilt that she was fast asleep as her son lay dead on the floor. Abedi refused to return to court for the sentencing and listen to the victim impact statement and has shown no remorse, yet stupid cranks like this woman try and frame Abedi as a victim.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||08/22/2020|
R62 Has Douglas Murray's alleged 'nastiness' personally affected your life?
|by Anonymous||reply 65||08/22/2020|
Can't wait for Murray's column on the Woke Left now demanding that "Rule Britannia" and "Land of Hope and Glory" be ditched as the close of the last concert of the Prom season.
"Rule, Britannia" by the way was written in 1740 and celebrated not Empire (as the critics would have you believe) but 1) the glories of the British navy, which well predate coloniaism and the slave trade (the English were a sea-going folk 1,000 years ago, hence the success of the Dunkirk retreat), and 2) the phrase "Britons never will be slaves" referred to the successful curbing of monarchical power.
The only people who should be offended by its popularity are the royal family.
By the time it's all said and done, the tail will have successfully put down the dog. The problem is, the tail is actually part of the dog. It can't put down the dog without killing a good bit of what made the dog so appealing.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||08/24/2020|
I don't find your dog appealing in the least r66.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||08/24/2020|
R66 I will need time to comprehend your analogy.
I'm not British but I admire British culture. So I'm curious that you mention the Dunkirk retreat as 'a success'. I understand the Charge of the Light Brigade was a military failure but Tennyson's poem celebrates bravery and sacrifice. And the Gallipoli Landing seems the same.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||08/24/2020|
"I don't find your dog appealing in the least"
But so many others did that they were banging the doors down to get in after WWII. Odd, that, don't you think?
Yes - let's get all that cultural detritus off that poor old dog: the art, the literature, the science that came out of universities founded centuries ago, the march toward freedom from the power of a hereditary monarchy, the many dialects across the nation and linguistic richness, the unique sense of humour . . .
Let's just put that poor old dog down because recent arrivals can't stand that it doesn't look like them.
Well - they all wanted in to that very same Little England that everyone now jeers at. There must have been something appealing about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||08/24/2020|
Dunkirk was a success as opposed to a victory.
Had the retreat from the beaches of Dunkirk not succeeded, the entire British Expeditionary Force of some 400,000 troops would have been wiped out. The success of Dunkirk was that Britain lived to fight another day, and by June 1940, Britain was the Last Man Standing as the rest of Europe went under the wheels of the Third Reich's juggernaut.
Open a history book. It was clearly stated by Churchill that no one should see Dunkirk as a victory. But as a momentous success in snatching victory from the jaws of defeat: yes, it was unquestionably a success, and one carried out not by giant royal naval vessels, but by small craft fisher=folk from the coasts that could see France in good weather.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||08/24/2020|
Douglas Murray explains LGBT+ to you, including how none of the letters really get along very well.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||08/24/2020|
Truth be told, there's nothing more frightening than Douglas Murray smiling.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||08/24/2020|
R72 Douglas Murray is an intellectual. He is not supposed to be a sex symbol like Hugh Dancy (below) was.
He's 41, he does a lot of travelling chasing stories in Europe and Australia and he doesn't bother with contact lens anymore and I don't think the scruffy look is suitable for him at his age. But, as I said, he's not supposed to be a sex symbol.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||08/24/2020|
He doesn't usually look that owlish; that was just an unflattering picture. Weren't people on DL swooning over his surprisingly non-geeky body earlier this year?
|by Anonymous||reply 74||08/24/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 75||08/24/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 76||08/24/2020|
Interview with Talk Radio this morning. About Sam Smith during the Covid lockdown: "At least they had themselves for company."
|by Anonymous||reply 77||08/24/2020|
He did look geeky and goofy, years ago. But then he discovered the Gym, got contacts, and ironed his hair. It's the stuff of Gay Rom-Coms.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||08/24/2020|
R77 lolll. Delightfully bitchy!
|by Anonymous||reply 79||08/24/2020|
His books, and lectures, have been prophetic, especially The Madness of Crowds.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||08/24/2020|
R80 He isn't as prophetic as HG Wells, Aldous Huxley or George Orwell. He's writing simultaneously to the phenomena he describes. He described 'the Strange Death of Europe' in 2017 and 'The Madness of Crowds' in 2019'.
I've read both and I consider them both as well-researched, well-analysed sensible journalism without the self-obsessed verbiage we get from American journalists.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||08/24/2020|
R81 for the win.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||08/25/2020|
I'd love to be spanked by him.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||08/25/2020|
Douglas why are you making treads about yourself?
|by Anonymous||reply 84||08/25/2020|
Anyone know if Douglas has a big cock?
|by Anonymous||reply 85||08/25/2020|
R84, I'm not Douglas. I'm a total bottom, as I've said in other threads, so I can't be Douglas. Also, I'm American.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||08/25/2020|
R86 - "Douglas why are you making treads about yourself?"
Is "treading" a new Thing I've missed out on?
|by Anonymous||reply 87||08/26/2020|
Just by the fact that he's not a tranny pet (TRA) I love him a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||08/26/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 89||08/29/2020|
We Americans don't do stank sleeve.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||08/29/2020|
[quote] The plot of The Camp of the Saints follows a poor Indian demagogue, named “the turd-eater” because he literally eats shit, and the deformed, apparently psychic child who sits on his shoulders. Together, they lead an “armada” of 800,000 impoverished Indians sailing to France. Dithering European politicians, bureaucrats and religious leaders, including a liberal pope from Latin America, debate whether to let the ships land and accept the Indians or to do the right thing — in the book’s vision — by recognizing the threat the migrants pose and killing them all.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||08/29/2020|
R91 you can’t buy that book (or get a Kindle sample) on Amazon, because it’s “Under Review.” Interesting that Amazon sells a lot of disgusting shit but a nonfiction book is not allowed.
I’d be curious to read it, as I enjoy apocalypse fiction.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||08/30/2020|
R92 here's a PDF of the novel. It's meh.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||08/30/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 94||08/30/2020|
I meant “fiction” not non-fiction, obviously.
Thanks, R93. I’ll read a bit of it.
If anyone has any good apocalypse novels, please recommend. I’ve read The Stand, It Can’t Happen Here, Swan Song and my favorite so far, On the Beach.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||08/31/2020|
Brilliant, as usual.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||08/31/2020|
I know Murray has quite a few fans and admirers here, but keep in mind that he's very restrained about what he says about Donald Trump and rarely if ever expresses anything other than very mild criticism of the man. He may not be impressed by Trump as a person, but he never condemns his policies in public. Other conversative British journalists have not been so restrained.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||09/07/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 98||09/07/2020|
R48 Are you aware of Akala?
|by Anonymous||reply 99||09/07/2020|
He's one of the conservative commentators I can stomach because at least he's sincere and consistent in his beliefs--a "true believer," if you will. By "sincere," I mean that he's been a conservative since at least his teens (he's been a public figure in the UK for many years). He was also out as gay at Eton (no jokes, please), so that at least shows some character. I imagine he must have been very precocious, having published a biography of Lord Alfred "Bosie" Douglas when he was only 21.
He's good in those "Resisting Wokeness" videos with the more left-wing Andrew Doyle, who balances him out (he also shows some sense of humor there, apologizing to the audience that "the heterosexual community is not represented at all" on stage (both he and Doyle are openly gay).
He has been fairly cogent and level-headed on the pandemic, this summer's protests, and general freedom-of-speech issues, but I have to switch him off when he starts denying the existence of massive income and wealth inequality. There are limits to what I'll listen to from him.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||09/07/2020|
More on his Rom-Com makeover ( r78 ).
Sometimes he does scruff.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||09/08/2020|
Love the Cosmic Skeptic, R101.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||09/08/2020|
Cut or uncut?
|by Anonymous||reply 103||09/08/2020|
R5 That website loves to diwnplay the homosexuality of hot men. Armitage all but came out to the press this year.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||09/08/2020|
R95: Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||09/08/2020|
He's quite the actor in his interviews, from the little sighs he makes to the studied pauses to the pursing of the lips and staring in the distance when he's about to express his "concern" (hate how that has become a red flag!) for today's young people. He makes a good point, though, about our unforgiving climate in which the inevitable outcome of anyone making even one wrong move has to be the end of their career/dismissal/cancellation.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||09/08/2020|
He seems like he’d be great husband material and is nice-looking enough, but, depending on how the camera catches him, is not always above-average looking.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||09/08/2020|
Sorry. This is the photo I wanted to use as an example.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||09/08/2020|
He reminds me of a Jack Russell terrier in OP's pic. Ridiculously intense.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||09/09/2020|
Recent lecture for students and faculty of the somewhat unfortunately named St. Corona College:
|by Anonymous||reply 110||09/09/2020|
I followed Douglas Murray for years, he was always a pleasure to watch in debates and whatnot with everyone pitted against him, expertly cutting through various kinds of hypocrisy. Of late, however, I find him a bit of a bore, he's turning into one of those intellectual types who say perfectly obvious things in a pretentious way like he's the first to have thought them. It's easy to feel special arguing exclusively with matter hatter, gender obsesses woke crowd, much less taxing than arguing with Islamists, which I suppose he's done enough of.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||09/09/2020|
^My typing is atrocious today, so sorry DL
|by Anonymous||reply 112||09/09/2020|
R111 What he’s saying may be perfectly obvious but sadly it’s now considered to say them and most people in his position aren’t.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||09/09/2020|
^now considered unacceptable
|by Anonymous||reply 114||09/09/2020|
Right, R106? The last minute or so of this had me taking notes on how to convey gravitas.
I'm not a conservative, but I do enjoy him, though he sometimes overly dramatizes issues, for example in the linked interview.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||09/09/2020|
Is he in a relationship? And do pics exist of him with said boyfriend? (and no, Richard Armitages boyfriend is a certain Jim G.)
|by Anonymous||reply 116||09/09/2020|
He's managed to keep his private life very private. I thought he mentioned in passing in an interview last year that he'd recently broken up with his long-term partner, but someone here on DL corrected me and said he's still with the guy (a Spanish national, according to that poster).
I was considering attending a "Resisting Wokeness" event featuring Murray and Andrew Doyle before COVID, but my would-be companion said we'd be photographed at the event and "shamed" on some public Facebook page for attending. Both of us are center-left politically, but interested in all sorts of opinions. The event would have been fairly light-hearted, by all accounts (Doyle is a comedian).
|by Anonymous||reply 117||09/09/2020|
*We would have been branded 'Nazis' for attending.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||09/09/2020|
I like that he's comfortable being gay and doesn't seem like he'd secretly want to be straight, like certain other gay conservatives. He did have a close friendship with Roger Scruton (who was a type of mentor to him), who wrote (among other dubious things) that people should instill in children feelings of revulsion towards homosexuality. I wonder how Murray feels about that, privately.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||09/09/2020|
His little anti-trans rant: "'I've-got-a-penis-but-I-can-still-be-Glamour-Woman-of-the-Year' award":
|by Anonymous||reply 120||09/09/2020|
R95 - On the Beach was a terrific film, well played by a great cast and both touching and prescient. Factoid (and SPOILER]: the author of the book, Nevil Shute, sued the movie studio for changing the plot just enough to, in the author's view, change the character of the leading man, Gregory Peck and turn him into a knowing adulterer. Shute lost.
In the novel, Peck's character has accepted the fact that his wife and children are dead, so his eventual affair with Ava Gardner is desperate but not wrong. In the film, he is portrayed as not having accepted that his family is dead, making his succumbing to the affair with Gardner an act of adultery that went against the honourable character Shute gave the Navy Captain.
Shute also wrote the book on which a couple of film as well as an acclaimed TV series, A Town Like Alice, was based.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||09/11/2020|
Douglas showing off his muscles in a tight tshirt
|by Anonymous||reply 122||09/13/2020|
Douglas Murray explaining his new Lockdown Look from the video at r122 :
[quote] "I've given up on suits and shirts. What's the point? If it's the end times, we might as well be comfortable.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||09/13/2020|
r122 He's such a Frau.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||09/13/2020|
R122 It's sooo weird and a bit inappropriate that the host of this video with the gnarly British teeth describes our Douglas as "gorgeous."
|by Anonymous||reply 125||09/13/2020|
Yes, R125, James Delingpole isn't photogenic or telegenic.
I understand that he's heterosexual but he's an ally with Douglas Murray against the rising flood of Silly Woke Hysteria infiltrating British institutions.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||09/13/2020|
James Delingpole is also a climate change denier.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||09/13/2020|
R127 James Delingpole is sceptical about a whole range of things. He cultivates some of them as part of his job as a journalist and to keep himself in the public eye. But does he take it all that seriously? I don't think that his opinions on all these issues have a greater value than yours or mine. And, thankfully, Britain's Cancel Culture isn't quite as vicious and merciless as American's Cancel Culture.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||09/13/2020|
Fun fact: Delingpole was a long-haired marxist and became a music reviewer specialising in punk at NME after Oxford. He still goes to Glastonbury every year and comes back telling of how fun the drugs were.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||09/13/2020|
He is so ferocious and I love him for it.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||09/14/2020|
^ He's got a book called 'The Forsaken' on his shelf.
I wonder if it's this?—
|by Anonymous||reply 131||09/14/2020|
He pretends to care about young people, but of course it's only conservative-leaning ones he cares about; he mocks and looks down on the youthful Extinction Rebellion and other environmental activists, whom he no doubt considers misguided across the board. He tries not to come across as *too* much of a snob, but fails.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||09/14/2020|
The 'youthful Extinction Rebellion' generates mirth and anger with its own antics and nude protests. It doesn't need Douglas Murray to mock them.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||09/14/2020|
But regardless of their antics, he--and many textbook conservatives like him--express a general lack of interest in (or even disdain for) environmental causes, as if enviromental degradation somehow doesn't affect them. I doubt he would more sympathetic to Extinction Rebellion if their brand of activism were more orthodox.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||09/14/2020|
Hmmm … I don't think I remember Murray saying anything about environmental issues.
How can Extinction Rebellion get their message across in a less disruptive way? What are they doing about our society's over-use of single-use plastic?
|by Anonymous||reply 135||09/14/2020|
[quote] I don't think I remember Murray saying anything about environmental issues.
Oh, he's covered it.
[quote] DOUGLAS MURRAY: Terrifying children with climate propaganda is abuse
[quote]And there we get a glimpse into the real project here: a new generation is being terrified into agreeing with a specific and fringe eco-lobby. This lobby does not care if it damages the mental health of a generation because it seeks to recruit that generation as foot-soldiers.
[quote] It is time we called this what it is: an abuse of children on a massive and unforgivable scale. Something that the generations that will succeed us will look upon with shame.
Buried in this rant is this tiny, ass-covering qualification:
[quote] None of this, of course, is to say that there are not environmental issues, most importantly to do with pollution. Many of our responses remain inadequate. But you have to be, if not ignorant, then very young to fall for everything that people tell you about the climate.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||09/14/2020|
He would fit right in here on DL as he considers Greta Thunberg--marshmallow target that she admittedly is, good intentions notwithstanding--a punchline.
R135: he's clearly not above engaging in a little "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?" concern trolling.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||09/14/2020|
Sorry, I meant R136.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||09/14/2020|
[quote]How can Extinction Rebellion get their message across in a less disruptive way?
Why should they even try? When has polite, background protesting ever worked?
|by Anonymous||reply 139||09/14/2020|
R134 You complain Douglas Murray is insufficiently 'sympathetic to Extinction Rebellion' yet Keir Starmer says the 'tactics and the action of Extinction Rebellion, particularly blockading newspapers [is] just wrong in my view and counterproductive'.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||09/14/2020|
R136 You use 'ass-covering' as an adjective as if you want to uncover his 'ass'.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||09/14/2020|
R140: I have my doubts about Extinction Rebellion and their "tactics" (such as they are) myself. Starmer is obviously entitled to his opinion as well. It just seems to me that whenever Murray has addressed the topic of the environment, it is as a 'left-wing' pet cause, when it is something that concerns and affects us all. Is he afraid of losing conservative credentials? Why is environmentalism, even in 2020, still viewed by some as a left-wing concern? Why does the conservative magazine he writes for, The Spectator, rarely write about environmental issues, when, say, The Economist, does publish such articles? Even Marion Maréchal Le Pen, the far-right and otherwise deplorable niece of France's Marine le Pen, launched a horribly misguided "patriotic" environmental movement.
And Murray *is* selective when it comes to his empathy for young people. He rightly condemns today's social-media climate in which a young person only has to make one stupid mistake and it is held against him forever. He advocates forgiveness, while at the same time ridiculing young people who have embraced causes he personally disapproves of. Yes, he's eloquent, but--like many of us--he's not as open-minded as he likes to think.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||09/14/2020|
Examples of Murray's rhetoric @ R136 read like the very worst of Daily Mail hysteria. It's greatly irresponsible to conflate real child abuse with a topic which can at least be argued about rationally.
It's quite a feature for otherwise intelligent men who write for The Spectator, and always has been. The need to corrupt that intelligence with outrageous exaggerations to raise a profile, make waves, and 'create debate.'
In addition freelancers need to make a living, so tout out their bylines and then have to fill space with lazy specious scaremongering. Posh hacks are still hacks.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||09/14/2020|
Here is his most recent interview
|by Anonymous||reply 144||09/14/2020|
I find him very droney and whiney - the other day I was listening to him rambling on, after a while it was like listening to a 45 being played at 33.
He never has any answers, just endless gripes.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||09/14/2020|
[quote]Here is his most recent interview
And this one from the day before. There's probably one from the day before that and...
Look at his awful expression.
It's all the gym and T-shirts now.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||09/14/2020|
He is incredibly ripped for an intellectual. He wasn't always. He must have a new boyfriend.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||09/14/2020|
Do friends call him "Doug"?
|by Anonymous||reply 148||Last Tuesday at 12:08 AM|
[quote]He is incredibly ripped
|by Anonymous||reply 149||Last Tuesday at 12:12 AM|
Too many commentators have jumped on the anti-woke bandwagon now, and they all invite each other on their podcasts and YouTube talk shows. You could spend the entire day listening to YouTube conversations between people vehemently agreeing with each other. The lucid and level-headed Andrew Doyle is probably the most entertaining of the lot. American academic James Lindsay seems fixated on the "intersectional social justice woke brigade." He has a sharp mind, but it's time for a new obsession.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||Last Tuesday at 12:18 AM|
He's smart enough not to respond to gay-baiting straight interviewers like the Modern Wisdom guy.
Delingpole (who's obviously a close friend of Murray's) was quite embarrassing in his fan-girling.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||Last Tuesday at 12:24 AM|
I want to see him gangbanged by a bunch of muslim refugees.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||Last Tuesday at 1:21 AM|
Oh, R152, would Nabeel, Mohammed, Asif, Salah, Tanweer, and Iqlak fullfil your fantasy?
|by Anonymous||reply 153||Last Tuesday at 1:34 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 154||Last Tuesday at 3:18 AM|
[quote]I want to see him gangbanged by a bunch of muslim refugees.
That might work out well for him in a Lawrence of Arabia sort of way.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||Last Tuesday at 3:24 AM|
^ I believe TE Lawrence was celibate.
I say that after reading 'Seven Pillars', 'The Mint', the George Bernard Shaw family letters and all those undocumented allegations of him picking up men and paying them to flog him.
I believe his 'personal discomforts' led him into a supreme state of fastidiousness and celibacy.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||Last Tuesday at 3:43 AM|
R156 - Why, he doesn't look a thing like Peter O'Toole! How should that be?
I do love the GO WOKE-GO BROKE!
|by Anonymous||reply 157||Last Tuesday at 4:59 AM|
I was alluding to the film, which is unlikely to have referred to Lawrence being raped just for sensational effect. David Lean was hardly that sort of director. Even if it was a fantasy conveyed by Lawrence, it was true to some intrinsic part of him.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||Last Tuesday at 5:04 AM|
R152 Douglas is a top.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||Last Tuesday at 5:37 AM|
R159 LOL no way he is a top. The question is whether he is into fisting or not.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||Last Tuesday at 7:02 AM|
It's always funny how DL posters think the primal act of penetration takes some special combination of physical, personality, and character traits, when the wider world thinks of the desire to penetrate as inherent to all males. Do you also look at your dweeby, unmasculine straight neighbor or coworker and marvel at how he was ever able to father three children?
|by Anonymous||reply 161||Last Tuesday at 8:03 AM|
R161 = bottom
|by Anonymous||reply 162||Last Tuesday at 8:06 AM|
Nope, just a realist who's aware how the rest of the world sees these things.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||Last Tuesday at 8:12 AM|
I agree with you, R155, R158, that David Lean would have avoided any American-style sensationalising of Lawrence’s alleged rape. The film merely hints at sodomy.
Lean was also by constrained T. E. Lawrence’s literary executor Arnold Lawrence who would have vetoed any display of his elder brother’s possible masochistic desire.
But it did leave Lean a problem with a ramblingly weak, unresolved, unclimactic plot and some unsatisfyingly shallow pyschology which he admirably disguised with his perfectionist film-craftsmanship and a great script and music.
He acknowledged his hero’s unsatisfyingly enigmatic, contrary behaviour and marketed the film with a blank face.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||Last Tuesday at 6:48 PM|
I dunno about Britain, but while the left might be annoying and ridiculous at times and invested in some stupid Woke nonsense, the Right is batshit fucking crazy, pretty much through and through. The choice on the Right is Trump Cult, QAnon lunatics, NeoNazi homicidal maniacs, Christian fanatics, or at best, dead-eyed worshipers of money and power. What the fuck does Douglas Murray think is going on in the Right Wing? What does he think Trump is? Sane? Competent? Honorable? Would love to know.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||Last Tuesday at 6:53 PM|
R60 I think Murray is right to be wary of Britain's so-called 'multi-culturalism' based on this event last year—
|by Anonymous||reply 166||Last Wednesday at 1:17 AM|
And back on Joe Rogan's show...
|by Anonymous||reply 167||Last Thursday at 10:15 AM|
I went to the effort of reading Murray's last 2 books from the library but I'm unlikely to listen to the above 145 minute clip unless someone can give us a precis or tell us when the highlights occur in it.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||Last Thursday at 2:44 PM|
Wow he is refreshing to hear. Good watch at r168
|by Anonymous||reply 169||Last Thursday at 3:20 PM|
[quote] I'm unlikely to listen to the above 145 minute clip
I just set the Youtube settings for that video for a speed of 1.75 of normal speed. That gets rid of Murray's dramatic pauses and Joe's slowness and speeds things right along.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||Last Thursday at 3:58 PM|
I watched bits of that clip at R167 and I suspect Douglas Murray tailors his speech to please his audience.
Rogan claims something about the US being in a new form of democracy. And Douglas Murray doesn't correct him.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||Last Saturday at 4:10 PM|
I want to see Douglas present hole. Surely someone London gays here have met him before.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||Last Saturday at 4:18 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 173||Last Saturday at 4:19 PM|
and that's the thing, whatever complaint you have about the Left, and there are lots, the right is just so much worse. it just seems like you have to be a moron or a monster to be anything on the right these days.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||Last Saturday at 4:25 PM|
Are you assuming Douglas Murray spends his time in London?
He spends lots of time in Australia which is why he's looking so jet-lagged and shopworn these last 5 years. Go seek out some videos from 5 years ago when he looked as fresh and dewy as an English rose.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||Last Saturday at 4:27 PM|
R174 What has Douglas Murray said to offend you?
What was 'moronic' or 'monstrous' to you?
|by Anonymous||reply 176||Last Saturday at 4:29 PM|
honestly not him specifically, I think he sometimes nails the left for it's nonsense and that's fine r176. But you cannot go through this life these days and not notice that the right is a pile of shit, both here in the US and in Britain. That is the big blind spot. You may have all kinds of complaints about woke dingbats on twitter, but have you noticed that Trump and the entire Republican Party here in these united states are a giant pile of shit with nothing to offer other than give more money to rich fucks and suppress minorities?
|by Anonymous||reply 177||Last Saturday at 4:33 PM|
R177 So you're admitting you haven't listened to Douglas Murray and you can't think of anything he said that's 'moronic' or 'monstrous'.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||Last Saturday at 4:36 PM|
again, r178, I don't consider him monstrous or moronic. Report to your cultmaster that you have extracted that confession. However, I don't think he is focusing on the correct problem.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||Last Saturday at 4:42 PM|
What is the correct problem?
|by Anonymous||reply 180||Last Saturday at 4:43 PM|
the correct problem is that the Right is absolute shit these days. That in the big contest between Left and Right, there is no Right worth supporting. That it is like the 30s, if you have to choose between extreme Left and extreme Right, choose Left. It at least gives a shit about what is going on in the world. The Right is living in a fantasy world that is not worth engaging in.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||Last Saturday at 4:45 PM|
You have stated your boundaries.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||Last Saturday at 4:47 PM|
and you have stated your allegiance. why?
|by Anonymous||reply 183||Last Saturday at 4:48 PM|
I want to see Douglas Murray debate with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
It would be interesting to hear what they say but it would more interesting to hear HOW they say it. One is a demagogue and the other a debater.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||Last Saturday at 4:55 PM|
I think AOC might not be the best partner. I would actually like to see a trained and intelligent Marxist talk to him, about marxism, about what has been happening with income inequality, and about so much else.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||Last Saturday at 4:57 PM|
Where are the trained and intelligent Marxists who'd be willing to debate Murray?
|by Anonymous||reply 186||Last Saturday at 4:59 PM|
I don't know. Are we really supposed to believe there aren't any?
|by Anonymous||reply 187||Last Saturday at 4:59 PM|
I'm looking at Google for 'contemporary Marxists'. I think they use different labels nowadays.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||Last Saturday at 5:03 PM|
so that's it? he can't google marxists? he just has to argue with nonsense dingbats who think they are black? okay, well, I guess it's a gig.
|by Anonymous||reply 189||Last Saturday at 5:04 PM|
R186 - he could debate with Patrisse Cullors from BLM, she's a self-declared 'trained Marxist', though I'm not sure how intelligent she is.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||Last Saturday at 9:57 PM|
As for a potential debate partner, I nominate British-born marxist UCLA professor Perry Anderson (who's also exactly twice Murray's age).
[quote]Francis Rory Peregrine "Perry" Anderson (born 11 September 1938) is a British intellectual and essayist. His work ranges across historical sociology, intellectual history, cultural analysis. What unites Anderson's work is a preoccupation with Western Marxism. Anderson is perhaps best known as the moving force behind the New Left Review. He is Professor of History and Sociology at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). Anderson has written many books, most recently The Antinomies of Gramsci and The H-Word: The Peripeteia of Hegemony, both published in 2017. He is the brother of political scientist Benedict Anderson (1936–2015).
|by Anonymous||reply 191||Yesterday at 12:02 AM|
Douglas Murray has always been pretty fringy in the UK (though sadly the centre of gravity is moving towards him). He is an excellent example of that country's tendency to give huge leeway to people who speak with a refined home counties accent and went to Oxford. If his accent, and not just his ideas, sounded like English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, he would get far fewer invitations to speak than he currently does. The Spectator often provides a platform for bomb-throwers like him, always from the right of course.
There are lots of things that could be said in response to R177, but here's what I will choose: because of his dislike of some aspects of Islam, he has decided that the correct solution is collective punishment of Europe's muslims. He has called for a ban of all immigration into Europe from Islamic countries and has hysterically suggested that Europe is 'committing suicide'. He has argued that some mosques should be pulled down, and has stated that 'conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board' (note; not, therefore, only for extremist or violent muslims). He has also made a partial defence of torture and advocated an attack on Iran and Syria. He has also claimed that London is 'like a foreign country' because white British are a minority. Because of these views the Conservative party severed all links with him when he refused to resile from them.
This guy was trying to introduce proto-Trump politics into the UK before Trump was a thing. There's nary a pro-Trump poster on DL so don't fall for this guy.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||Yesterday at 12:27 AM|
[quote]He has also claimed that London is 'like a foreign country' because white British are a minority. Because of these views the Conservative party severed all links with him when he refused to resile from them.
I didn't know the Tories had done that - was this done officially and on the record?
Douglas Murray and Owen Jones get a lot of comparisons, not *just* because they're both gay, but they both push a very particular and almost pious view of the world and disdain for those who don't agree with them.
It feels like Owen Jones is very much on a downward trajectory, re-writing history and what happened with the disastrous Corbyn period he championed, whereas Murray is getting more traction with his views.
Naturally the answer isn't one or the other, it's neither.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||Yesterday at 12:39 AM|
btw, re: wokeness: I have real issue with some aspects of 'wokeness'/'cancel culture' and believe it is ultimately a dead end for the left. But can we stop pretending people who question it are some kind of persecuted minority? Not a day goes by without some hideously overprivileged person using a speech or column or TV appearance to decry how you will be destroyed for stepping out of line or challenging the new orthodoxy by our new woke masters: then they inevitably receive sustained applause all across twitter and various newspaper comments sections, and the columns and tv appearances keep coming. The actor Lawrence Fox made himself a second career and thoroughly milked his fifteen minutes of fame in front of an audience his tv career had never provided him with earlier this year in just this way.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||Yesterday at 12:44 AM|
His position in the UK is interesting and (to me) a little puzzling. He does remain somewhat of a fringe figure despite his columns in various mainstream publications. He's invariably introduced by those who endorse him as "bestselling author" and "one of our foremost public intellectuals," but he'll never attain the status of a Hitchens or s Dawkins or, well, fill in your own blank, really.
Has anyone here read any of his books?
|by Anonymous||reply 195||Yesterday at 12:47 AM|
R195. R51 and R168 say they have. The videos are free on Youtube but I'm unwilling to listen to an hour long discussion unless a precis is given or unless we're not told when are the highlights.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||Yesterday at 1:01 AM|
[quote]btw, re: wokeness: I have real issue with some aspects of 'wokeness'/'cancel culture' and believe it is ultimately a dead end for the left. But can we stop pretending people who question it are some kind of persecuted minority? Not a day goes by without some hideously overprivileged person using a speech or column or TV appearance to decry how you will be destroyed for stepping out of line or challenging the new orthodoxy by our new woke masters: then they inevitably receive sustained applause all across twitter and various newspaper comments sections, and the columns and tv appearances keep coming. The actor Lawrence Fox made himself a second career and thoroughly milked his fifteen minutes of fame in front of an audience his tv career had never provided him with earlier this year in just this way.
I agree, and yet the left wing version of this is to decry the criticism and ridicule people receive, generally claiming they are victims of -isms or -phobias when they make a stupid statement which draws attention.
e.g. the woman standing for the Labour NEC who tweeted ACAB, leading countless senior figures in the party to be asked if they agree with her - naturally they said no - and then she claimed she was the victim of media scrutiny.
The right and left reactionaries really do think they're morally superior to each other, but they're just different cheeks on the same arse in need of a good wipe clean.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||Yesterday at 1:05 AM|
R193, former Tory MP Paul Goodman was involved and has explained it..
Of course a lot has happened since that was written and the Tory party has also changed hugely, but as far as I know no formal links between it and Murray exist, though I don't think he runs that particular think-tank anymore. I don't believe he is a party member.
I don't buy the comparison between him and Jones. Jones is not a bigot, and love or loathe him, he doesn't make a career out of advocating the persecution of any group.
R195 Arguably his role is to remain on the fringe but to ensure that the political mainstream is pulled right by expounding fringe ideas from his many platforms. You can make an excellent living in England as a right-wing bomb thrower: many publications, think tanks and institutions will employ you
|by Anonymous||reply 198||Yesterday at 1:07 AM|
Thanks, R196. This has been an interesting thread. I wonder why is it greyed out--not sure if people find the poster known as Defacto or Murray himself offensive, or whether it's the "whores" bit that wounds. A bit of all three, I guess.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||Yesterday at 1:09 AM|
Following-on from last post, Goodman wrote a piece for the party blog 'Conservative Home' explaining the situation, I tried to post it twice but couldn't for some reason, but a little googling will get it for you (dated October 17th 2011 'Why the Conservative Front Bench broke off relations with Douglas Murray - and what happened afterwards').
|by Anonymous||reply 200||Yesterday at 1:10 AM|
[quote]I don't buy the comparison between him and Jones. Jones is not a bigot, and love or loathe him, he doesn't make a career out of advocating the persecution of any group.
Except Jews. His response to the institutional racism in the Labour Party under Corbyn has been to enable it.
This is a quote from an interview he gave yesterday.
[quote]Yes. I think there was a lack of very basic emotional intelligence in some sections of the left in terms of engaging with the collective trauma of the Jewish people. And the same with Israel. There is an emotional connection that many Jewish people have with Israel and you just cannot ignore that. It’s a fact, just as there are also many Jewish people who do not support the occupation and abhor it. But Jeremy is not an antisemite and the Jewish people who are close to him, and whom I have interviewed at length for the book, including those who were critical of how he handled it, would never countenance that. That doesn’t mean there weren’t blind spots and failings that led to a crisis.
Owen Jones defended Corbyn attending a memorial for the men who planned the Munich Olympic massacre with the line "Nobody was killed by a wreath".
He has used his platform to defend the indefensible. Either he does that out of blind political loyalty, or because he doesn't think Jews merit the same protections as other races/religious.
The idea that he's morally superior to the Muslim baiting Murray is not a credible argument.
And this isn't a recent thing, when Jones was at university he was obsessively editing Wikipedia entries about Jews.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||Yesterday at 1:15 AM|
I don't share your opinions on Corbyn R201 but that particular battle has been lost and I've no desire to fight it at length.
I will say only that none of Corbyn's enemies could point to a single policy proposal he advocated which would make the lives of British Jews worse in any way. The alleged instances of anti-semitism all came down to interpretations made of particular remarks, of Facebook 'likes' almost a decade old, of guilt by association, and so on. No other UK politician has been held up to that level of scrutiny, and the likes of Johnson, or Jo Swinson would offer much more compromising material to work with.
Corbyn is also one of the few high-level British politicians to genuinely stand up for the Palestinians, and their inherent right to be citizens of a state, and to enjoy the same human rights and protections as the rest of us do. I only wish such a stance was not so rare, as they are the victims of the real injustice, yet their voice is only occasionally permitted to be heard.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||Yesterday at 1:25 AM|
Ah, you're defending Corbyn's racism, at the same time as criticising Douglas Murray's racism.
You really think you're better than him. You're not, you're both in the sewer,
|by Anonymous||reply 203||Yesterday at 1:36 AM|
He enjoys being a performer and a bit of a comedian now.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||Yesterday at 1:40 AM|
Corbyn ultimately failed in what he tried to do R203, but far from being a racist, I'm quite certain he is a much better man than you.
Back to Douglas Murray: start a new thread if you are determined to rake up old wounds.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||Yesterday at 1:47 AM|
Does anyone know if Douglas is a top or a bottom?
|by Anonymous||reply 206||Yesterday at 1:48 AM|
Turns out he's no longer with the neocon Henry Jackson Society either. Here's a critical analysis of this organization and the policies they promote:
|by Anonymous||reply 207||Yesterday at 1:51 AM|
[quote]Corbyn ultimately failed in what he tried to do [R203], but far from being a racist, I'm quite certain he is a much better man than you.
R205, final point about Corbyn.
You say Corbyn isn't racist towards Jews and that he's faced more scrutiny than other politicians and that it comes down to how people interpret his remarks. I'd argue that the scrutiny Boris Johnson has faced over a lifetime of deliberately provocative racist comments as a journalist is comparable with Corbyn but there you go.
What, therefore, is the motive of the 85% of British Jews polled who think he's a racist? Why have actual Jewish people come to a different conclusion Corbyn compared to you?
Do you think British Jews are lying?
|by Anonymous||reply 208||Yesterday at 1:55 AM|
Corbyn was great source of amusement from the year 2015 to 2020.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||Yesterday at 2:00 AM|
It's only been an hour but I'm really hoping ConcernedEuropean can answer as to why he thinks the overwhelming majority of British Jews were so wrong in identifying Jeremy Corbyn as an anti Jewish racist, who amongst other things flew to North Africa in 2014 to lay a wreath at the grave of the man responsible for organising the Munich Olympics massacre where 11 Jews were tortured and murdered in Germany.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||Yesterday at 2:47 AM|
This thread is about Murray. Please stop banging on about that loser Corbyn, he's totally irrelevant, in more ways than one.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||Yesterday at 2:53 AM|
R206 We've already established that he is a total bottom. We're trying to figure out if he is into fisting, scat play, water sports, etc. People in academia are usually quite kinky.
|by Anonymous||reply 212||Yesterday at 5:18 AM|
Yes R212 - I could see him being into BDSM. He's the type who'd wear an old school Muir cap while getting fucked in a sling with a giant dildo.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||Yesterday at 5:37 AM|
Or maybe he's into the Adult Baby scene.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||Yesterday at 5:40 AM|
At the one-hour, twelve-second mark in the video below, the interviewer asks him about his gym routine and how we went from "normal Douglas Murray to jacked Douglas Murray" and he replies that he has been working out for 15 years:
|by Anonymous||reply 215||a day ago|
*one-hour, twelve-minute mark, obviously--sorry.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||a day ago|
I believe it's not the first time Douglas was interviewed by this handsome young man. He might as well present hole already.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||a day ago|
Sorry for the delay R208, R210, and everyone not interested in this sideline.
Boris Johnson has made clearly and unambiguously racist remarks: calling black children 'piccaninnies' in an article in a national newspaper (incredibly they printed it), suggesting your own President Obama opposed Brexit in 2016 because of his 'ancestral dislike of the British Empire', and most importantly, in a calculated move aimed at winning him the Conservative Leadership contest in 2019, wrote a disparaging article in which he attacked the appearance of Muslim women in hijabs/jilbabs, comparing them to letterboxes and bank robbers. The dogwhistle/foghorn worked and he got into No. 10, and believe me, he may have been asked to comment on his remarks but very few people, and certainly no sitting Tory MPs to my knowledge, ever said he was unfit to be Prime Minister.
Contrast this with the US when a long, long list of prominent republicans said Trump was unfit in 2016, including both former Presidents, and there looks likely to be another list this year.
Any claim that the faced the same scrutiny- even that their 'offences' were comparable - doesn't hold water for me.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||a day ago|
Regarding your poll, no I don't claim that 85% of poll respondents were 'lying': how could I possibly know that? If that is the view they formed of Corbyn, there it is. I am afraid I do not have to agree, and I don't outsource my critical thinking to anyone. As the fallout over Israel's stated desire to annex large parts of the West Bank continues, British Jewish leaders trying to manage the controversy tell us that 'annexation is a matter of lively debate in the Jewish community with some for and some agaisnt'.
In my opinion, annexation should never be presented as a reasonable subject for rational debate, just like apartheid should not. So I will go so far as to say that *some* (certainly not all, as I personally know for a fact) British Jews have an issue with racism which colours their attitude to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It's important to *also* hear what Palestinians have to say, but all to often they are misrepresented or ignored.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||a day ago|
Regarding the wreath-laying incident, you can find a quite thorough account, including his defence, here. There are no photos of him laying any wreath at the graves he is accused of laying a wreath at.
But ultimately everyone will see and believe what they want to see and believe.
On a somewhat broader point about wreaths and commemorations and the PLO, I will say this: Simply being the armed forces of a recognised state don't mean you are automatically morally in the right, and being a non-state actor or militia group doesn't automatically mean you are a terrorist, or wrong: but politicians and commentators often act as if it does.. The Palestinians never had a state, so never got to claim that legitimacy for themselves and their struggle for the same rights that we all enjoy. That is part of the reason why being citizens of a state is important.
If we are going to say that the PLO are beyond the pale, and Hamas are beyond the pale, and can never be met with, spoken courteously to, or still less commemorated, while all these things are still possible for Netanyahu and the IDF, who also have killed many civilians, then effectively the Palestinian people have no leadership and no route to ever acquiring their supposedly inherent human rights.
That is not something that anyone interested in justice should accept.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||a day ago|
I will say as an outsider, Corbyn probably should not have been so close to Palestinian extremists. But then again here in the US, all kinds of politicians are close to Israeli extremists and it is considered perfectly normal. We are a country this is way too fine with killing Palestinians. With very few exceptions, it is a given that no politician will ever criticize Netanyahu or the fanatical West Bank settlers.
|by Anonymous||reply 221||a day ago|
R212 no, we didn’t establish that. You established that all on your own. Wishful thinking of the weird freaks on DL who want handsome, muscular, intelligent men like Douglas to be bottoms for some bizarre reason.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||19 hours ago|
Your issues are showing r222
|by Anonymous||reply 223||19 hours ago|