Christina Crawford is actually a decent actress

Yet all you hear from her is her drunk-ass mother replacing her on [italic]The Secret Storm[/italic].

she was supposed to be terrible in “Barefoot In The Park” and couldn’t take direction, ignored her marks, tried to improvise, acted like an entitled Hollywood daughter etc. No one wanted to work with her after that.

Myrna Loy took Joan's side against her and was a total bitch to her. I lost respect for Loy after that.

R3 these celebs publicly spoke out supporting Christina

[quote] I wonder why her career didn't go further.

For reasons that are well known to her.

The defenses I remember hearing of Joan's actions and the attacks made against Christina were mostly of the kind Cheryl Crane says her mother told her: "In this town, we stick by one another." I remember Ginger Rogers getting upset about the book on some talk show and insisting she was glad she never had children so they wouldn't betray her--as if it the unforgivable act were not the abuse but telling someone about it.

The stories Natalie Schafer and June Allyson tell at r4 are pretty horrible, and they corroborate the accusations made against Joan in the book. These aren't just instances of strict mothering; these are clear instances of sadism.

It must be in her genes.

There were a big article many years back - maybe VF - that interviewed many - even Joan detractors - that said she could be cold, strict, but Christina made up a lot of this - including her brother Christopher who recanted much later, saying she'd paid him. Joan was no angel but I suspect Joan physically beat her.

Myrna Loy had worked the daughter in Barefoot, and said what R2 stated. I don't think she actually took Joan's side.

Link, or it never existed, r8.

She has a Glenn Close quality.

R4, that shit about the chocolate is straight out of Matilda. WTF.

Christopher Crawford never recanted his story r8.

Helen Hayes, Betty Hutton and Eve Arden backed Christina up

As has been said here numerous times, Joan should have just sent this ungrateful creature back to the foundling home she came from. If Joan was so bad, she should have tried living the life of the trash who birthed her.

I told Christina to ‘break a leg.’ I tried repeatedly to help her do it.

Betty Hutton was a horrible mother to her three daughters. They were estranged from her most of their lives, and none of them came to her funeral.

However, two of Joan's children defended her as a mother.

She didn’t put out for Harvey Weinstein. I wonder if turning him down was worth it.

BUMP

R16 that still doesn’t mean Betty Hutton didn’t see joan abusing her kids. Also the twins were 8 years older than Christina and both girls went to boarding school from an early age.

"However, two of Joan's children defended her as a mother."

Always the last grasp for Crawford fans who cannot accept that their Queen Bee was an child abuser. Assuming you people are adults and not teenagers, the question you should ask yourselves is, why can't you separate Joan's film performances from her personal life?

Blow it out your ear R20.

^ teenager

Honestly, I'm shocked she had time to abuse children given how she spent all her time with her dicktrap spread open just in case a man fell in.

R19 - I think you meant to say that the twins were 8 years YOUNGER than Christina. But yes, they seemingly had a different life and I suspect that Joan was a different parent depending very much upon what was or was not happening with her career and love life.

Just because one child in a family is abused does not mean all of them must be abused (at least not physically). There were 5 kids in my family and I was the only one who got beat up regularly.

Christina was an ungrateful little shit.

Joan was better with "the twins" (who were not actual twins, though she referred to them as such) than she was with Christina and Christopher. She raised the two older kids primarily in the 40s, when she was super-insecure regarding her career (that was the decade she was fired by Metro & was desperate to win an Oscar) and to still be regarded as sexually attractive; the later two girls were ten years younger, and were raised primarily in the 50s and 60s, when Joan was more used to her position as a hasbeen, was no longer trying to find hot young men interested in her, and also realized how much she had alienated Christina and Christopher by being so controlling and abusive. The younger girls' upbringing was very strict, but it was not the horrorshow Christina and Christopher experienced.

p.s.--Anyone who excuses or casts doubt upon the abusive horrors Christina and Christopher went through--which have been corroborated multiple times by multiple people, as the above posts attest--is a complete fucking POS.

POS here! I think Christina is a money grubbing phony and Christopher was a drunk loser.

And I cosign R28.

[R27] Cindy and Cathy were indeed fraternal twins.

Christina exaggerated her stories to sell books, which is not to say that Joan wasn't abusive but MOMMIE DEAREST was written for money and revenge - and it shows. Christina was never hospitalized with broken bones, lacerations, etc. at Joan's hand. There's a difference between "denying abuse" and putting things into perspective. According to many accounts, Christina was a spoiled, selfish little monster who felt entitled to anything she wanted -which was the opposite of Joan's upbringing. There's a story about Elvis Presley nearly slapping Christina on the set of WILD IN THE COUNTRY because she was so obnoxious.

She threw a drink in Elvis's face and he told his Memphis Mafia to "get that bitch out of here."

"MOMMIE DEAREST was written for money and revenge - and it shows."

That's what they ALWAYS SAY about every unflattering book about a movie star.

Christina lost contact with Christopher before he died. I wonder why.

Christopher wanted nothing to do with her either.

Ah, but nobody ever said life was fair, Tina. I'm bigger and I'm faster. I will always beat you.”

[quote]Christina exaggerated her stories to sell books, which is not to say that Joan wasn't abusive but MOMMIE DEAREST was written for money and revenge - and it shows.

No, dear. Stop being a stereotypical fag making excuses for abusive women because you deem them as bad-ass divas. It's a bad look. Joan should have been locked up.

Joan clearly favored the twins and the twins were most likely super obedient sycophants which is one of the things that Joan craved. Selective abuse where some children are abused and the rest are favored/spared does happen. It's more common than people think.

Interesting how even though some celebs spoke out and shared stories of witnessing Joan being cruel to her children that some posters here still think Christina is a liar

How come Tina Darling has never tried to make a life for herself? She revels in self pity and victim hood

And your point it, R40? Christina's life is entertainment for other, I (we) could give a shit if she revels in self pity and victim hood.

what about the celebrities who said Joan was a strict but not abusive mother? Even the twins said Joan was very strict.

Christina was on Larry king one night and she explained how the meeting stopped around age 13. Christina said she realized that in order to not get killed she would have to stop having a bad attitude, have to pick up her room, do her chores, and not talk back. In other words, behave like all children of that era were expected to behave.

*beating, not meeting

No one on here has claimed that Joan was mother of the year, but that doesn't mean that Christina didn't shade and color things to sell books. And Joan never got to tell her side of the story.

Joan got the delicious revenge of cutting Christina out of the will. It triggered 43 years of jealousy from Christina, although some might say she’s made an industry from it.

Did the twins get anything? They were basically cut out of the movie.

Dl falling for and overrating the nepotist case Nr. 33487503

R6 June Allyson was a well known alcoholic. Natalie Schafer's performance in that comedy show from the 1960s wasn't acting - she really was that daffy and clueless.

It definitely bothered me over the years that Christina seemed to get angrier and angrier. Rather than wisdom leading to an understanding of why Joan was the way she was, and forgiveness, Tina just seems to dislike her more as the years go on.

In the latest round of publicity for the 40th anniversary of the book in 2018, she took to speculating that Joan probably killed her husband Al Steel by pushing him down the steps and causing a heart attack. I thought that was pretty low of Christina. There is absolutely no evidence of this.

Joan was possessed by demons

[quote]It definitely bothered me over the years that Christina seemed to get angrier and angrier.

Because that is all she has left and shows who she really is. At some point healthy people make peace with the past, you just don't keep wallowing in things you can't change.

Off-topic, but It has to be said: James Brolin was so fucking gorgeous back in the day!

the twins each got $77k, which adjusted for inflation is around half a million. Joan had a couple of million left over and she bequeathed most of it to charity. The twins also received Joan’s possessions, in particular Joan’s jewels, Adrian gowns, and Billy Haines furniture (which sold for millions at auction) and Joan’s Oscar which was sold for around $75k.

Christina

Crawford

is a

Crunt.

Isn’t a crunt something you get at Winchell’s?

Poor misunderstood Joan.

Christina and Christopher both sued the twins for their share of Joan's fortune after the infamous omission and after a few years back and forth, they gave them both small chunks of their shares of Joan's fortune probably to get rid of them. I think that was what happened in that TV show about celebrity wills.

I would still love to see a new film adaption of Mommie Dearest that is serious and completely faithful to the source material and properly cast with a good well known director at the helm.

I. AM. NOT. ONE. OF, YOUR. FAAANNNNSS!!

[quote] Anyone who excuses or casts doubt upon the abusive horrors Christina and Christopher went through--which have been corroborated multiple times by multiple people, as the above posts attest--is a complete fucking POS.

That includes the twins, though.

R9, Myrna had issues with Christina long before "Mommie Dearest" was published.

When Christina entered the viewing room at Campbell's Funeral Home for Joan's wake, Myrna promptly got up and left the room.

Myrna Loy is a cunt cunt cunt

#TeamChristina

#TeamJoan

R62 Is Bette Davis.

R64 is Myrna Loy's yeasty pussy

That was sarcasm, in case you didn't know, JOANBOTS.

R66 Sarcasm can be..........(pause)

(pause)

(pause)

...............taken the wrong way.

R67 = Joanbot with limited comprehension, limited life :(

R68 Fuck yourself with a rusty lead pipe, you fat whore.

[quote] the twins each got $77k, which adjusted for inflation is around half a million.

More like $350K

There were rumours that a lot of Joan's fortune was 'wilted' away by Christina. She got found out by Joan who allegedly slapped Christina.

Joan’s fortune was wilted away by Joan herself. She didn’t have as much acting work so she had to live off her fortune. Pepsi stopped paying her by the early 70s so she adjusted her lifestyle accordingly, by moving into a succession of smaller (although well appointed) apartments at a less fashionable address. She also traveled less and ate out less. She lived very simply, but kept busy with her correspondence which she took extremely seriously. She didn’t even have a full time maid towards the end, ‘Mamacita’ only came in a few times a week although Joan was fastidious with cleaning and tackled most of it herself anyway. By the time of her death I don’t think Joan even had a maid, as Mamacita had quit for good. But Joan wasn’t bedridden until her last week of life and continued with her daily activities.

Our Joanie was an OCD bitch before they called it OCD.

In the film of Mommie Dearest, before Joan's death, there's a scene of Christina accepting some award at a televised ceremony hosted by Richard Chamberlain that Joan is watching live from her sickbed. Do any of you Joan experts know what award that was supposed to have been? Or was it all made up for the film?

R58, classic!

I. AM. NOT. ONE. OF, YOUR. FAAANNNNSS!!

Joan tried repeatedly to nab a guest appearance on "Marcus Welby" with her former co-star Robert Young, but it never happened.

She must have been STEAMING mad when Christina got her guest spot instead.

As a nun!

R74, I think the award was dramatic license. They wanted to show that there was some thawing in the relationship of friends two women but more importantly the director wanted to show Joan living in reduced circumstance. Joan’s apartment, the smallest one that she lived until her death, was featured in Architectural Digest. It was well decorated and furnished with bright contemporary style. Joan didn’t live on a mattress stacked on the floor as in the scene, at one point Joan ordered a new bed and the mattresses were temporarily on the floor until it was delivered.

[R72] Joan moved from the apartment she shared with Al Steele at Imperial House to a smaller unit in the same building. She received something like a 50K per year pension from Pepsi (a very substantial sum in the 1970's), she had occasional roles, book sales and her jewels. Joan was financially well-off but she lived sensibly. That brief scene in MOMMIE DEAREST where Joan is watching the awards show while laying in a mattress on the floor was a cheap shot to mislead the audience that she was hard up. She actually did put her mattress on the floor for a short time but it was due to back pain, not hardship. Christina is a drama queen and a failed actress who envied Joan.

I know R79. I wrote that in post 79

post 78, I meant

She was in Jason Goulds short film "Inside Out"

Bubele wrote, directed and starred in the short, playing the gay son of two famous parents who joins a support group for children of celebrities.

The award ceremony that Christina appears at was modeled after a lecture series held in NYC in the early 70s called Great Ladies of the American Cinema. Other participants on different evenings included Myrna Loy, Rosalind Russell, Lana Turner, Sylvia Sidney, and Bette Davis. It wasn't an award, and of course, Joan appeared. But I've seen photos from the series and the stage looked exactly like the way they set up the awards for the film.

A decent actress? If awards were given to children who act like spoiled brats and pint-sized harlots, Christina would be right up there.....right beside a little temptress tot I know.

"Joan moved from the apartment she shared with Al Steele at Imperial House to a smaller unit in the same building"

No, darling. Joan moved to the newly build Imperial House on 69th and Lex. THEN she moved to a smaller apt on the same high floor in the same building. 22nd floor with an balcony. I cried for her :(

[quote] she took to speculating that Joan probably killed her husband Al Steel by pushing him down the steps and causing a heart attack

Funny since isn't that how Bette Davis supposedly offed one of her husbands?

I think she went from a four bedroom to a one bedroom,. Supposedly the set Ryan Murphy had built for ‘Feud’ is accurate down to the most minute details. However at Joan’s death Mamacita had already moved on and I think went to live with one of her daughters in another state, Joan died in her sleep with I think one of her neighbors present.

In her later years, Katharine Hepburn said she never regretted not having children because she knew she would've been a shit mother. Too bad Joan and some other actresses from that era weren't as self-aware.

[quote]Joan was better with "the twins" (who were not actual twins, though she referred to them as such)

They really were fraternal twins, they found their birth parents later in life. Both of the twins are now dead.

"I think she went from a four bedroom to a one bedroom,"

She went from an eight room to a six room. Nothing to cry about in NYC .

Liza also lived at Imperial House, and Lucille Ball kept an apartment there. I imagine between Joan, Liza and Lucy the whole building reeked of vodka and cigs.

such an unfashionable part of town though. Not a bad neighborhood but not very noteworthy either. Nothing to really recommend it other than proximity to the 6 train. The price must have been right, and when Joan bought in the building was new. That must have appealed to her, everything spotless and new.

Lex between 68th and 69th certainly isn't the poshest part of the UES (back in the days when that kind of thing mattered) but it was still a pretty nice neighborhood.

[quote] Both of the twins are now dead.

Good.

I didn't know the twins had died. I suppose Christina contested their wills. It is a wonder she has written, a word I use loosely, a book about them.

Christopher died too, Christina is the only one left. She's 81 now.

R96 What a wasted life

Christina seems to have done alright for herself.

R88, in those days lesbians didn't have children, Hepburn's comment had nothing to do with her lack of mothering skills.

I still say Faye Dunaway is worse. At least Joan Crawford attacked heterosexuals. She never would’ve treated Billy Haines that way.

or Cesar Romero either, her two best friends.

Didn't she change her will when she was told Tina was writing a book about her?

that’s what an article in Vanity Fair alleges.

[R102] Yes - another of Christina's lies. Christina did not write MOMMIE DEAREST in the wake of Joan's death to deal with her "complex" feelings and to bring the issue of child abuse to the fore. Christina helps herself, not others. She was already publicly feuding with Joan at the end of Joan's life, knew that Joan was ill, and enjoyed the fruits of timing Joan's death correctly. Joan knew Christina was writing an unflattering book about her at the time of her death.

She is an ugly ungrateful peasant whore!

"Cesar Romero either, her two best friends."

Darling, Cesar Romaro was a "best friend" and dance partner to dozens of Hollywood matrons. If he was one of Joan's best friends, she must have been one sorry bitch.

Joan Crawford died on May 10, 1977 and MOMMIE DEAREST was published on October 2, 1978. Do the math. The book was in the works before Joan died. Christina was not a professional writer.

Is Christina too old to get a life?

The book, movie, and cultural phenomenon of "Mommie Dearest" have certainly put their marks (bruises?) on three generations of American pop culture, and I have enjoyed the schadenfreude, scandal and scuttle-butt since it started!

Shit, I didn't get smacked or cut out of any will, I'm just grateful for the whole megillah!

Please. The only reason Joan is revered/remembered today is because of Mommie Dearest. She was a middling actress who campaigned her way to an Oscar and made a fool of herself for the last decade or so of her career. She was a drag queen before drag queens were popular. In the firmament of classic Hollywood era actresses, there is definitely a hierarchy, and without Mommie Dearest, Joan would likely rank somewhere between Roz Russel and Norma Shearer.

Even at the time of her death, Crawford was a much bigger name than Shearer and Russel. I don't think she'd be forgotten without Mommie Dearest.

Didn’t Joan quit making public appearances after she saw a photo of her and Rosalind Russell and was horrified about how she looked?

Christopher and Christina sued the estate and I think each got around $50k and Christina gave her share to Christopher.

R110” she was a drag queen before drag queens were popular”

You said it yourself dingbat! That is why “Joan”would always be remembered and be considered a hollywood icon. No one else was like her! Slapping her hideous brat child is not the reason.

[quote] You said it yourself dingbat! That is why “Joan”would always be remembered and be considered a hollywood icon. No one else was like her! Slapping her hideous brat child is not the reason.

Wrong. Russell was just as big a drag queen as Crawford. And Tallulah Bankhead was a bigger drag queen than both of them put together. That kind of shit is only gonna take you so far. And that's exactly the level Crawford would be at if she hadn't had Mommie Dearest. She had two classic films, and in one of them she was completely overshadowed by Bette Davis.

Case in point- Bette Davis- loved by the gays but also completely transcends that camp ghetto to be respected and revered by everyone.

Crawford's 40s noir films have never gone out of style. They're iconic.

Yes, Crawford stopped making public appearances after the Roz Russell party because when she saw the pictures in the newspapers the next day she was very upset over how she looked. She spent the last three years of her life as a recluse in her NY apartment.

[quote] Crawford's 40s noir films have never gone out of style. They're iconic.

Other than Mildred Pierce, they aren't. Sorry. I know you want them to be, but they aren't. Even Stanwyck has more iconic films than Crawford. Hell, even that cunt Myrna Loy does.

I'm one of Crawford's number 1 fans. I'm in my 40s and I only discovered how awesome she was in my 30s. I didn't know anything about Joan or any classic actor in my teens and 20s.

As much as I detest both the book and the movie, both probably extended Joan's legend status. Same thing with Bette Davis, the song about her eyes introduced her to a new generation. The feud with Joan and her bitchy comments probably helped extend her legend status as well

Christina needs a kick to the cunt

Humoresque is pretty iconic. And then you have her 50s campfests like Torch Song and Johnny Guitar.

[quote]*beating, not meeting

What's the difference?

We always knew that cunt was rough with her kids. The daughter's book was no surprise.

the book was already written but it wasn’t released until the following year so as not to make Christina look like the book was triggered by being cut out of the will.

Bette was shocked by the book and angered by Christina writing it. She believed it was all just an act of revenge by a selfish spoiled child, and while she didn’t like Joan personally she only had positive things to say about her professionally.

Joan just became more pathetic as the years went by. Sad.

R2=the ghost of Joan Crawford

R122, how would releasing it the following year make any difference in not making it look like she was triggered by being cut out of the will?

Mildred Pierce

Humoresque

Daisy Kenyon

Possessed

Flamingo Road

The Damned Don't Cry

Sudden Fear

These mid-career Joan films were all well-received and enjoyed. They are top-rate, stylish noir melodramas, and excellent examples of that genre. They've never really gone out of style and decades later film buffs find them entertaining. Say what you want, but Joan had an solid career making quality films people enjoyed.

[R127] You are absolutely correct and the poster upthread doesn't know what he's talking about. I'd also add Johnny Guitar (1954) to her list of important, influential films that are studied and discussed in film schools. Joan and Bette both transcended "women's pictures" and, as others have stated, were responsible for their own genres (Bette's melodramas of the 1940's and Joan's noirs and melodramas of the 1950's).

Joan made some damn good movies in the 40s. A Woman's Face is also excellent.

"The Secret Storm" didn't just have Christina and Joan to contend with. Judy Davis, who played one of the core family members on the show (and may have been on during the time Christina and Joan were there) was the illegitimate daughter of Clark Gable and Loretta Young. Ms. Loretta claimed that she was adopted, but anyone can see that Judy had her mother's face and her father's ears. Judy wrote a terrific book about it, but unlike Christina's book, Judy seemed to understand why her mother did what she felt she had to do. At the time Joan was on, the director was Gloria Monty who went onto fame turning "General Hospital" into a blockbuster soap. Judy Lewis's grandmother on the show was played by veteran movie supporting player Marjorie Gateson who appeared in "Employee's Entrance" with Loretta and "Chained" with Joan.

Who did Loretta think she was fooling?

Judy Lewis looked like the female version of Clark Gable. No question he was her bio father.

R123, as I recall, Davis had no problem with Mommie Dearest. I remember her quoted as saying, "at least MY daughter would never write a book about me!"

"Crawford's 40s noir films have never gone out of style. They're iconic."

A few maybe. Problem: no one has seen them, and no one , with the exception of a small portion of gay men, has any desire to see them.

Judy Lewis was not physically and emotionally abused by Loretta Young. Her book is not a valid comparison to Christina Crawford's.

R133’s anti Joan hysteria (think of baby Tina! think of baby Christopher!) has tainted her mind into thinking that Bette’s collection of work has stood the test of time any more than Joan’s. “Now Voyager” and “All About Eve” are remembered by the same people who remember “Mildred Pierce” and “Humoresque.”

Personally I find both actresses campy and full of schtick. The only thing interesting remaining are the geriatric queens at The Townhouse Bar in Manhattan who argue about them nightly!

[quote]Problem: no one has seen them, and no one , with the exception of a small portion of gay men, has any desire to see them.

Joan's film noirs are studied in film schools.

Hey r133, you saying things does not make then true.

Lots of people are into 40s films/classic Hollywood movies.

I like Judy Lewis' book a lot. She died a few years ago and seemed like a nice woman.

"...anti Joan hysteria" Do you queens acknowledge your JOAN IS THE QUEEN hysteria? It's quite pathological.

[R137] Exactly. If "nobody" watched such films there wouldn't be a TCM and the classic movies posted on YouTube wouldn't have thousands of hits. I'd speculate that more people have seen MILDRED PIERCE than have seen an episode of, say, DEAD TO ME.

I know Bette publicly how despicable the book was that she would never read it but didn't Bette's cunt daughter write in her tell-all that Bette called her up laughing gleefully while reading Mommie Dearest and saying it was a terrific read?!

Bette's daughter BD Hyman was a spoiled rotten cunt who was supported by Bette for decades because BD and her useless husband didn't like to work. Bette spent a fortune on both of them. Bette had her difficulties, but she was in no way the kind of tyrant Joan was and didn't deserve such an ungrateful daughter.

R141 BD and that hideous cunt Tina are two peas in a pod!

Christina looks like an Afghan Hound

BD Hyman now looks like her mother as Baby Jane.

BD on her mother

BD wrote that she and Bette thought Joan was insane and Christina was peculiar when they all met for a few minutes.

Not true R100.

The impossibly handsome David Manners had a run in with Joan that was so nasty he was like I don't need this shit. He then moved to the desert with his lover. I assume he came from money. He looks like he would.

Douglas Fairbanks Jr. said when he first married Joan one night when he took off his socks and threw them on the floor Joan flew into a rage. He found that odd.