Table Manners: What Drives You Crazy?

So what you are saying is after eating a lot of your cooking, your husband knows to automatically grab the salt?

Think about that OP, I know you can get to the bottom of what that means.

That never bothers me. If they want to ruin their food, that is on them.

Food needs salt. So many home cooks wonder why their food doesn't taste as good as the dish in the restaurant does. The answer is normally it is missing salt (and also acid).

When people cut their food in such an awkward way it makes an awful scraping, "nails on the chalkboard" sound.

I've seen people pile the side, protein and vegetable (who have been served in separate parts on the plate) all into a homogenous mess and then shovel it into their mouth.

People who hold their fork with their fist like a mini pitchfork.

Slurping.

I salt and pepper almost everything instinctively

not table manners but i hate eggs and syrup/jam touching each other. i have to have my pancakes on separate plate

OP, my partner is the cook, and a good one at that, and his seasoning is always perfect. If I ever (unwisely) seasoned the food myself after it was served, I'm sure I'd be sent to stand in the corner.

R4 OMG the fork thing bothers the fuck out of me too! Did these cretins not have parents to teach them how to properly hold a fork? Drives me fucking insane.

I'm not a prissypants, so there's little a normal person will do that would bother me.

OP, ask him. And if you're a woman, just shut up and don't bother us here. Because your thread says "table manners" and that is a term that applies (if you listen to Miss Manners) to public and social eating. Family manners are a different class, and set by the household. If you have an issue that is personal, that by definition is not social and not any of our interest. It's not our fault you married a boor and he married a non-communicative control freak. Listen to R1, too. Maybe your "delightful" meals (such a silly adjective) are bland. Try salting the shit out of something - a salt-roasted chicken with extra salt. But do hush.

And if you play hall monitor I'm going to have the thread dropped. Because I can.

For, it's hats on men during a meal out, unless it's a dive serving food.

[quote]Table Manners: What Drives You Crazy?

People who obsess over table manners.

Farting at the table

[quote] Table Manners: What Drives You Crazy?

OP, you're asking a board full of eldergays that eat in their easy chairs on their little TV table.

The only "manners" involved is making sure the kitties don't leap up for a bite.

People who hold their knives like pencils.

OMG R6, yes! I also can’t handle the syrup touching the eggs. Separate plate for my pancakes please, thank you....

Let's hope R11 gets clubbed by the asocial trog sitting next to her who wants her half of the raw squirrel.

But syrup on bacon, yum!

People who take out a handkerchief and blow their nose at the table. Yes, I have seen this. Excuse yourself and go to the bathroom to do that, you hillbilly.

[quote]not table manners but i hate eggs and syrup/jam touching each other. i have to have my pancakes on separate plate

You sound high-maintenance.

[quote] i hate eggs and syrup/jam touching each other. i have to have my pancakes on separate plate

MARY!

*alarm sounds*

PRISSPOT ALERT!

For me, it is the vertical fork pushing down meat and the knife as if it were a saw. And I see it a lot.

How else do ya do it?

People who talk with food in their mouth. No conversation is so urgent that one cannot wait until one's food has been swallowed.

A pretentious friend (100% American) seemed at one point to decide to eat in the European manner in terms of holding his fork.

I always have a private chuckle when he forgets to do it.

R17 - “ But syrup on bacon, yum!”

I agree. Go figure.

People who hold their forks by fisting it like they're about to shovel snow. I've noticed it's become a lot more common with younger people.

I dislike it when people enjoy their food too much, as in ahhing and moaning and slurping and rolling their eyes back (from watching too many cooking shows on TV: you'll never be another Nigella). At least Nigella doesn't make a lot of noise while eating. It's a miserable thought, but the more noise going in, the more noise going out. The seasoning thing doesn't bother me: my Mom would cook without salt, for health reasons, and I knew to salt most things she'd serve me. Besides, I actually have struggled with a sodium deficiency.

People trying to get the chewy bits out of the spaces between their teeth.

People who blow their nose at the table. People who wipe their nose with the restaurants linen napkins.

People who bite their fork when they take a mouthful. The sound of tooth enamel of metal — wince!

Asians slurping noodles. It's "volume off" when watching this on film.

This will be a collection of the nelliest prisspots who ever lived.

Brits do what R4 describes--on the upside down, rounded portion of the fork. It's appalling.

Cutting more than one bite.

Since the pandemic, the only person I've been eating with is my husband. I'm sure I've let my own manners slip. I know for sure I now wolf down my food, and usually finish long before he does.

That looks like Jack Lemmon in "Some Like It Hot" at R32.

People (usually men) who, when they eat, place one elbow on the table then lean / slump their weight into that one elbow. The other hand will be shoveling food into the mouth.

Think Chopped, Scott Conant and Aron Sanchez. Both of those guys ate in the slovenly fashion.

Not using a napkin frequently, or (horrors) not using a napkin at all.

I have a friend who was raised in upper middle class - just a hair under high society. Royal families and many famous authors and academics ate at his house.

He eats as if he's on death row and has a limited time to shovel it all in. Literally holds his fork like a shovel.

And no, he's not fat. (He's a bit more beefy now that he's older but he was a skinny minnie for most of his life.)

I dated a guy who was ideal boyfriend/husband material, except for the way he ate. Primarily the holding the fork like a shovel thing, but also talking with mouth full.

I tried to get past it. I did. But i couldn't, and to bring it up to him would have offended him. If it weren't for that, I'd be living in a fabulous West Kensington townhouse right now.

R40 I’m right there with you. I just cannot deal with either of those things. Why don’t people’s parents teach them how to behave in public? At least you then have the choice to not behave if you wish, rather than not knowing any better. People do notice these things including eating out with colleagues.

What drives me crazy is the fact that having a meal together with your loved ones is less and less of a regular ritual today. I perfectly understand how difficult and busy our lives are, but dinner together as a family taught me not only table manners, but also how to converse and to argue respectfully.

Even if it just one or two nights a week,a sit down meal with your loved ones is an important socialization ritual.

Answering or looking at your phone or iPad while dining with others drives me bonkers.

What I don't understand about the holding your utensils like shoves thing... I get that you might use your utensils that way if your parents were lazy and never bothered to teach you properly.. but how do people not pay attention to how other people are using theirs and change accordingly?

R42 Right! My father’s boss would make sure he would be home by 530 PM every night! Dinner was at 6 sharp every night. No phone or doorbell interruptions either!

People continuing eating after I've finished. Serving shrimps. Or green peas. There's no elegant way to eat them. Using garlic. Toasting ME.

My brother and his wife did not teach my niece, who is beautiful, table manners which really shocks our family since our mother and father really stressed good table manners. "Don't slouch, no elbows, close your mouth" etc. We blame his wife who is also kind of sloppy. My brother should have spoken up but didn't. Anyway, here's this pretty girl smacking her food and chewing with an open mouth.

I think parents are just lazy and maybe no one sits down at the table for dinner anymore.

No elbow is actually an obsolete rule and should not be taught. It dates back to the middle ages when people held daggers on their side, so putting your elbow on the table seemed threatening, since it was easier to reach the dagger from there.. You're welcome.

People who throw their cloth napkins on to a dirty plate (with leftover food still on it) when they are done.

THANKS! While I didn't have problems getting the small smudges from your mouth out of the napkin, now I'm going to have extra time to get out the long smear of gravy and grease from top to bottom!

And butter: Don't use your personal knives (particularly ones you've already used) to cut the butter and spread on your roll or other food. Use the butter knife, take only a small bit to transfer to your side plate, then smear it how you like with your OWN damn utensil!!

R48, yes, on the butter thing. I've noticed people dont know how to use a bread plate. I was also taught to tear a small piece of bread off one at a time and butter that instead of buttering the whole thing at once. Looks much nicer especially if it's a roll.

They spill their broth

On the tablecloth

They lead disgusting lives

Loud smacking sounds. There's a guy on YouTube who I really like. He makes interesting foods, but when he starts tasting, I am grossed out.

Talking with your mouth full.

Licking your fingers clean.

Picking your teeth at the table with your fingernails.

Going beyond just picking your teeth and trying to dislodge something in the back of your teeth with your fingers.

[quote]Talking with your mouth full. Licking your fingers clean. Picking your teeth at the table with your fingernails.

With whom have you been dining? The Clampetts?

None of you are cool.

OP, as part of Management Assessment at my company, prospective candidates were taken to lunch. If they salt or peppered before tasting, it was counted against them. Making decisions without full knowledge.

People who cut their meat or chicken into pieces, instead of slicing each piece as you eat.

Slicing rolls in half with a knife.

In high school we had a class in Table Manners. We were told when leaving the table, the napkin is placed on the chair. When finished eating, at left of dessert or dinner plate. At a banquet, when I returned from the men's room during dinner, the waiter put my cloth napkin on the table!

R57 - depends on the roll. I know you're supposed to break off pieces, but you're assuming a small dinner roll without a hard outer crust.

I have misophonia, so eating with other people is nearly impossible for me. My partner has no table issues that irritate me, and that's part of why I fell for him nearly 20 years ago.

R58 - the napkin never goes on the chair.

I agree with OP. People seasoning a home-cooked meal before tasting it is fucking rude, especially when they are guests.

R61, I think it does in that situation.

I have to leave the table to blow my nose? No.

You can turn your head away. Or you can go to the bathroom while I blow my nose at the table.

But fuck off with your "LEAVE MY TABLE!" rule.

R64 You are disgusting.

Loud chewing. I had to break up with a guy because I couldn’t stand the way he chewed food

👃💨🍽, r65

R64 - seriously you are so wrong and all of your dinner companions (which would most likely be few) hate you.

R64 commented in another thread that he didn't wash his gym uniform in 2 years during high school, so let that sink in.

My son is a financial advisor and went for a job interview. The interview was over a dinner that the owner of the business paid for. They did small talk until the meal arrived. My son tasted his food and then went for the salt shaker. He got the job. The owner told him that he did all interviews over dinner. He would wait to see if the person used salt before or after they tasted their food. He said those that salted their food before tasting it would jump into investments without looking into them first. Those that salted after tasting, tested first before jumping in.

R69 commented in another thread that he fantasizes about getting raped by a dog.

Let that sink in.

R70, what about those who don’t salt their food at all? I hardly ever use salt in a restaurant.

[quote] the napkin never goes on the chair

I'm a bit too old to be changing the habits of a lifetime, my good fellow.

R48 I did that napkin thing once as a teenager at my aunts home. She sure let me have it! Never forget that lesson!

Picking or flossing your teeth at the table.

I have an uncle who always brings along his own toothpick holder filled with toothpicks to wherever he eats, whether a private home or a restaurant. He puts it on the table at the beginning of the meal and the moment he feels something caught in his teeth, he pulls out a toothpick and starts digging in between his teeth. He may never do it at a meal or he can do it over a dozen times using a dozen toothpicks. When we were children, we were oddly fascinated by it, but warned by our parents never to comment on it. Forty years later, I still think it's disgusting when he does it.

R61's only eating out dining experience has been in greasy spoon diners with booths and jukeboxes on the wall.

Other people eating.

R70 what if the candidate just doesn't season their food but is reckless with other decisions?

Seems like a stupid decision making process. I believe you, but sounds stupid.

My husband holds his fork like a pitchfork and I hate it. The conversation goes like this: Me -“I hope you don’t hold your fork like that in front of the bankers and board members” Him- “I don’t do it all the time.” He does it all the time. I’m trying to help him so he doesn’t make a spectacle of himself. I learned that his red neck uncouth dad did the same and his mother could never break him of the habit. I can’t enjoy a meal watching someone clutch a fork like a toddler in a sandbox. Watch the divorce proceedings unfold here

[quote] I was also taught to tear a small piece of bread off one at a time and butter that instead of buttering the whole thing at once. Looks much nicer especially if it's a roll

But it's 2020, not 1920. People always look so silly eating tiny pieces of the roll/bread. They always make a big deal out of it

[R80] I was taught to do that by a hillbilly mom who read an etiquette book in order to be high falultin.

OPs point is right-on. You give the cook/chef respect, and taste what they have prepared. Then you can adjust the taste to your needs. If the plate is really bad, the cook gets to witness all their guest slathering the food with salt, Tabasco, Sriracha, maple syrup, cum, Nutella, ketchup, vinegar, clam juice, Coca-Cola, Ora-Jel, peyote, Accent or whatever, it will appropriately humble them.

Hyper-correction in table manners in general bothers me.

People trying so hard to do everything so correctly. It usually comes across as dainty.

Good table manners are effortless and look easy. It has a casualness about it, but is actually immaculate and precise. Like watching someone drawing - someone who draws well does it with quick, smooth, and effortless strokes while someone who can't draw will painstakingly apply each line with the pencil.

The people who are obsessed with how much salt other people use are control freaks. 99% of the time they have some weird hangup with picky eaters too.

If you are worried about other people using salt, you have too much time on your hands. Some people just like a lot of salt. It's has to do with most food in America being poor quality, shit. I don't like ketchup or Sriracha, but I don't give a shit if someone else wants to slather it on everything they eat. It tastes good to them. What kind of asshole wants people to eat food that doesn't taste good to them?

Shovel fork and licking fingers. Hate it.

r72 that would be the same as the person that tasted their food first before salting.

I don't even know how it is possible to get food in your mouth when you hold your fork like a shovel. It would all fall off on its way to my mouth if I tried that maneuver.

R87 see below

when guests present hole BEFORE the dessert course! So tacky

You prove my point, r88. I couldn't eat like that.

r87

Sorry r90 r87 I thought you meant you couldn't picture how it was held

R71 - haha - but no - if you don't know already, we can see what you post recently on other threads. You posted that about not washing your uniform and followed it by your disgusting behavior of sneezing at the table.

You're a mess.

R83 - good table manners look effortless because they are practiced so that it is natural.

There are basic table manners and then table manners (or rules) for very elaborate dinners. The latter are exhausting, but nobody really gives a flying fuck as long as basic table manners are applied. Nobody is going to be appalled by someone using a fish fork for salad - and no one with manners would call them out on it.

[quote] People who bite their fork when they take a mouthful.

Dogs do this because they don’t understand how silverware works. That I love. But people, no.

My partner and I watched in horror as a friend of ours unabashedly flossed her teeth at the table when we were out to dinner. She brought a few strands of her long hair up to her mouth and excavated bits of Cuban food, which clung to the strands. Then she wiped her hair with the cloth napkin.

So, that and loud, piggy chewing. Like R60, I have misophonia and nearly lose my mind when people chew like swine.

Children have to be taught proper table manners. It's a fucking chore, it takes years and it interrupts many childhood dinners with unpleasant corrections in order to get it through their heads. Then it becomes effortless and you can take the kid anywhere for the rest of his life and he won't embarrass himself.

The point of good manners is to make others comfortable. If someone at your table is eating the soup course with the dessert spoon, a good host will do the same, going along to make the guest feel comfortable.

R96 - well, almost - I won't mimic anyone else who is doing something improperly - but I won't call them out either - at that level. If you sneeze at the dinner table, I will say something.

It IS a pain in the ass to teach to children, but it's good parenting. There's certain things you have to be an asshole about when rearing children - and many people nowadays don't want to put in the effort or be tough with their kids.

I am 56 years old and I have never salted my food. There’s never been any salt in my house since I’ve moved out on my own in my at 20.

I use various spices and fresh ground pepper but never salt

People who blow their nose at the table.

If you never use salt then your food sucks, R98, sorry.

I guess people that "inhale" their food or eat too fast, especially at a nice restaurant. I had a friend who inhaled food and also ate with the fork in his fist.

These food inhalers, you wonder what they're like sex-wise. Can't be good.

So weird - a friend’s teenage daughter does those same two things: she inhales her food, and she holds the fork in her fist as if it’s a shovel.

Is your friend overweight?

Yes, my friend is overweight. Maybe by 30 pounds, nothing crazy.

And, R102, to top it all off, he's selfish with his food. You'd be very lucky to get a tiny taste of something good from his plate. Maybe that's why he eats so fast. We're actually not friends any more.

I once had a friend (different one) eat half of my dessert off my plate as I rolled my eyes. In her defense, she ordered a 2nd dessert, same kind, so we ended up eating a full dessert each.

Noisy eating. Talking with one's mouth full. Picking teeth at the table. Chewing with one's mouth open (shudder). This thread needs a trigger warning.

When a diner does not dab his mouth with a napkin before putting the wine glass to his mouth.

R100 I better outlive you by at least 10 years. That may not mean anything to you now but I will when you’re on your deathbed but have some more salt.

I meant I bet I outlive you by 10 years

I know people on this thread are going to be mad at me but I hate eating with other people at a table in general. Maybe it's because I grew up like this (lived with my grandparents, we didn't always eat together etc) But I just really hate it because it feels so forced. Idk. I prefer eating a comfy meal on my own watching something.

Eating with your hands instead of a knife and fork (or chopsticks): pizza, hamburger, hot dog, popcorn, candy bar, taco, French fries.

R107, you're fucking delusional, honey.

I don't have any health issues that require salt restriction. Salt is not unhealthy in and of itself and people don't lose ten years off of their lives from normal food seasoning.

[quote]I prefer eating a comfy meal

I prefer not eating in the presence of those who use "comfy" in normal speech.

People who sniff the food before eating it.

[quote]I bet I outlive you by 10 years

An extra ten years on earth as it exists today: a party I don't want an invite to.

R111 I don’t think food should be salt free but most food is already loaded with more than enough sodium.

Unless you live on a farm and you’re growing your own vegetables and meat then you’re eating more sodium than you think.

I went to a restaurant for the first time with a casual friend and had to consciously avoid staring at his plate as he cut the entire meal into bite-sized portions before starting.

I have a friend who, at the end of every meal, wipes his plate with his fingers, then licks his fingers. It doesn't bother me anymore. It's how he was brought up. At least he doesn't slurp.

(112), Honestly I despise the word too, but I was too lazy to spell out comfortable.

I have one friend in particular who is annoying as hell when he joins us to go out for dinner. He's incredibly stingy and has some weird phobia of other people seeing him eat (he's way overweight and pigs out all day when he's at home by himself).

So he'll just order something small and cheap, like a basked of bread sticks, or just snack on the complimentary nachos and salsa, while the rest of us order full meals. Then he'll just sit there and sulk while we eat as if to try and guilt trip us for treating ourselves to a nice meal.

^ basket

R46 my husband’s niece also has atrocious table manners. She does things like bend her face down to the plate to shovel in food, and I’ve never had a meal with her where she doesn’t end up with food on her face and clothes. It’s really quite unbelievable. She does great in school and presents well otherwise. She’s a young adult now, and we fear this is going to hurt her socially and in her career . Her parents never reined it in obviously.

HKLP

I just try to overlook most things.

The pitchfork and HKLP grips do make me wonder if some people were raised by wolves, or worse. People who ask for condiments 1.) slightly huffy that they even have to ask, 2.) by brand name; and 3.) proceed to pour great heaps of the stuff...savages surely, but savages who might possibly be saved by a quite enormous dick? The people who push their food around on the plate at great distances: carrots from 3 o'clock to 1 o'clock, clockwise, then raise to mouth...just mystifying.

I can overlook these things easier than someone who won't shut up the entire dinner about how he's cut high fructose corn syrups or sugar altogether, or salt out of his diet. "Yes, completely, not a touch of it! You don't need it! It's making you sick!" Inevitably for all his dietary caution he not not quite nor cut down in the least on booze and cigarettes and cocaine (dealers on four continents on speed dial), and a medicine cabinet that looks like Damian Hirst's "Pharmacy."

Open mouth chewing is pretty difficult to overlook, however. That's the one that may be a problem.

I can't believe no one has stated this one yet: Taking photos of their food, usually for social media, making others wait to start so they can get the perfect images.

It used to be exclusively Millennials but now I see Gen X doing it.

R109 - you have social issues. Shoveling food in front of a computer should not be a preferred way of eating.

^^^ I'm aware that I have social issues. But I also think it has to do with the way I was brought up. Eating dinner was just considered that, never a social ritual. Everyone ate when they wanted to or when they finally came back home.

Also, I hate eating without doing something else. Idk why that is honestly.

R124 - well, while we're at it - using/looking at their phones during a meal. Unless you're sharing something pertinent to the discussion, don't bring them out for the 30-60 minutes of the meal.

I'm not so upset if people want to take pics of the food - for example, a holiday meal with the table decorations. It's now a thing we have to deal with - BUT, I've had some younger employees take pics at a BUSINESS DINNER with clients! Absolutely fucking no.

ONE MORE ITEM: I HATE when people unroll their napkin and place their cutlery on a BARE table. I see this all the time. Why the hell would you put your clean knives and forks on dirty restaurant tables? Unless there's a plate or table setting to put my utensils on, I'm not unrolling my napkin. Sometimes this is the fault of a restaurant, sometimes it is force of habit for people to put a napkin in their lap as soon as they sit down.

Putting your clean utensils on a plain table - I'll never understand that. And no, I don't put them on a tablecloth either.

People drinking coffee while eating dinner. In the late 90s when I was young and living in Paris it was when people smoked and ate at the same time. FFS! Stop it!

[quote]Shoveling food in front of a computer should not be a preferred way of eating.

I'm not r109—I would never type "comfy" except between quotation marks—and I don't shovel my food, but I live alone and I do eat most meals in front of my computer. I even bought plates that fit nicely in front of my keyboard, the small oval platter from Fiesta.

R128 Unless the table is still wet from being wiped down, or (god forbid) still has crumbs and bits of food from the previous diners’ meal, it isn’t going to be covered in germs. As long as the table is clean and dry your cutlery will be safe.

r128, are you a recent escapee from the "Shopping Is So Horrible, I Can Hardly Stand to Be Alive, part 36" thread?

R131 - you have a lot of trust in restaurants. No - bare tables that are wiped down and have rotating people eating at them are never going to be clean.

If you put your utensils down on a bare table, it's akin to eating off the table. I don't know what you're smoking.

Apparently I have bad table manners. How is one supposed to eat a steak if not like this?

R110 are you saying you eat popcorn with utensils?

Asking the waiter to deconstruct each dish and then request changes. I'm not talking about 'could I have broccoli instead of Brussels sprouts (which is annoying enough), I mean 'Could you ask the chef to use thyme instead of rosemary in the steak butter?' If you notice something in the dish you simply can't abide, then order something else. If there is nothing on the menu you can eat 'as is', then go to another restaurant!

I always associate eating quickly in big gulps with growing up poor and desperate to get your fill of seconds before others.

It's cliche, but highly correlated nonetheless.

This has turned into yet another DLCAS thread

(Datalounge Class Anxiety Syndrome)

[quote]This has turned into yet another DLCAS thread

Okay, I'll bite.

How would a discussion about table manners NOT be associated with social class?

While, of course, good manners and etiquette in general are fundamentally about making people MORE comfortable by establishing standard so people know what's expected of them and bludgeoning people with pedantic rules about manners is always in poor taste, a discussion about manners IS a discussion about class.

Only in your mind R139

Plenty of poor people eat quietly with their mouths closed and plenty of old money types gobble their food and chew loudly.

Social class may play a role in older people understanding the hierarchy between various forks and goblets, but that's about it.

DLers are oddly wedded to the odd notion that wearing the right type of suit and elegantly cutting their steaks will somehow cause people to forget they went to a community college. Or that

Even odder is that they desperately seek the approval of anyone who would care about that sort of thing.

Oh, look: another scolding about class at r138 from OurMillennialExcoriatrix.

R139 - agreed. People want to be immune to any criticism nowadays and are quick to call it 'shaming'.

R140 - you're completely misreading the thread. Nobody was talking about calling people out for using the wrong fork or glass. You're imposing your own thoughts on this because you find yourself lacking in knowledge.

What's next - greeting people politely is considered a class issue? Not using foul language in business meetings is just another way of putting you down?

Ridiculous.

You type poor, r140.

You also type like you'll never have money or have been shunned by people and are bitter after having earned a few pennies to rub together.

[quote]old money types gobble their food and chew loudly.

Sweetie, just because someone is old and has money doesn't make them "old money." Even though cheeto inherited his wealth from his father, he's still nouveau riche by old money standards - he's not even close to "old money."

[quote] I always associate eating quickly in big gulps with growing up poor and desperate to get your fill of seconds before others.

DLCAS

R143 - don't bother with R140.

Manners isn't about money or class. Plenty of working class and poor people rear their children with manners and social graces.

The problem is thinking that it doesn't matter anymore and that we should throw everything out because it's for 'old people'.

[quote]Manners isn't about money or class. Plenty of working class and poor people rear their children with manners and social graces.

Agreed. Common courtesy and basic social niceties are not limited by money or class.

The "anxiety" that people like r140 demonstrate is a bigger problem - to eschew something as not mattering due to age or tradition reflects an much more deeply rooted insecurity.

[quote] Sweetie, just because someone is old and has money doesn't make them "old money."

Only in the odd world of Datalounge Eldergays would someone think this needed to be explained.

The Lost World Of Upper Middle Class Midcentury Middle America

Preserved in amber on Datalounge.

R12, R26 and R28 need to find less repulsive dining companions and R89 is a bottom because we tops never wince out when someone presents hole. Etiquette dictates we say "please excuse me" to the others at the table and proceed to rim them (without of course making disgusting noises and the daintily wiping the corners of hour mouths with a cloth napkin which we then graciously offer to the hostess).

Utensil semaphore!

[quote]Only in the odd world of Datalounge Eldergays would someone think this needed to be explained.

Only in the odd world of the Datalounger would someone so wholly misunderstand a comment enough to post this sort of rebuttal.

I don't feel like making a joke so I'll just leave this here for others to say it's the "average DLer" or whatever.

Chewing your food and talking at the same time.

I’m not a salt fiend, but I enjoy black pepper on certain things like eggs, potatoes or certain vegetables. Get over yourself, OP. This has nothing to do with table manners, either. You sound like a handful. Be grateful your partner reaches for the salt around you and not the vodka.

R151 I find it best not to bite when yourmillennialcunt descends like a seagull to shit all over a thread with his holier than thou pontifications.

[quote]Asking the waiter to deconstruct each dish and then request changes. I'm not talking about 'could I have broccoli instead of Brussels sprouts (which is annoying enough), I mean 'Could you ask the chef to use thyme instead of rosemary in the steak butter?' If you notice something in the dish you simply can't abide, then order something else. If there is nothing on the menu you can eat 'as is', then go to another restaurant!

If it seems that some component could might SIMPLY be removed or omitted from a dish, I may ask if the avocado could be omitted (food allergy.) While it's often the case, it's not always the case, and that's fine; I have a back up plan to not hold everyone up.

I would never order the lamb but ask for pork to be substituted because I hate lamb, and ask for the potatoes to be roasted in olive oil instead of the restaurant's signature duck fat and could they make them Hasselback instead of cut and with rosemary instead of lemon-thyme, and instead of...

That sort of reverse food engineering and scene stealing is disgusting.

I was raised to put my (cloth!) napkin in my lap when I sit down at the table. If the napkin is wrapped around the silverware, that means unpacking the silverware and setting it at the appropriate spots on the table and putting the napkin in my lap. If I'm afraid to put my utensils on the table, then I won't eat at the place.

For YMF, silverware roll-ups are very middle class. Fine dining involves setting a proper table, with utensils touching the tablecloth.

R157 - agreed, but people eat out a lot of meals today and they are usually not at fine dining restaurants.

A lot of middle-priced restaurants do the rolled silverware thing without place settings.

It's a problem created by the restaurants, for sure. But I won't unroll my napkin and utensils unless I have something to put it on - and particularly not a bare table. I put the napkin and utensils to the side until some plate or dish comes along.

If there's a fresh tablecloth or even a roll of paper (more at the hipster restaurants), then I will put the utensils down. But that's rare.

This is never an issue at fine dining restaurants.

[quote]I am 56 years old and I have never salted my food. There’s never been any salt in my house since I’ve moved out on my own in my at 20.

R98 is awfully pleased with himself.

[quote]I am 56 years old and I have never salted my food. There’s never been any salt in my house since I’ve moved out on my own in my at 20.

R98 is awfully pleased with himself.

One last comment about the utensils and bare table thing (which is clearly my pain point) - even a lot of diners and cheap restaurants used to put down paper place settings for this reason or have the menu printed on them. You could then put your utensils on the paper.

But somehow over the past 20 years, it's now common to see a water and wine glass and utensils wrapped in a white napkin (cloth or paper) on top of a completely bare table. What are you supposed to do? You're supposed to put your napkin in your lap as you sit down - so where do you put the utensils? Most people opt to place the clean utensils right on the bare table because they have no other choice.

Fuck that. They're staying rolled up until I can put them somewhere reasonable.

Scraping your plate with your fork to get every piece of food or a bowl with a spoon. I just reeks low class - as if it's the first meal you've had in a month or last meal you'll have for a month. I've had to really strain from telling people to stop.

leaning over your bowl instead of bring the food up to your mouth with your back straight

Using your fingers to push food onto your fork.

[quote] I went to a restaurant for the first time with a casual friend and had to consciously avoid staring at his plate as he cut the entire meal into bite-sized portions before starting.

I had a neighbor (when I was a child) who would cut up her whole stack of pancakes before eating them. It looked like rubble from a building. She didn't proceed to shovel food into her mouth. But she did do scrape her top, front teeth on the tines of her fork (while withdrawing the fork from her mouth).

R163 I can understand that with food pinned to a fork your bringing into your mouth, but you can't expect the same with a spoon and soup! You have to lean over a little or you could spill soup all over the place carrying the spoon two feet to your mouth with delicate liquid!!!

OP's post about being furious the guest he serves doesn;t appreciate "a delightful meal" to his satisfaction cracks me up. It makes me think of the legendary poster years ago on Datalounge in a discussion about people holding their wine glasses by the bowl rather than the stem at his parties: it infuriated him so much that if he saw people do it, he said he would go up to them and snarl,. "Clearly I've not served the wine at what you consider the correct temperature or you wouldn't be trying to warm it with your hand! Would you like me to warm it for you?"

NEWS FLASH: Entertaining should never be about showing off, and having the guests appreciate your culinary (or oenological) wizardry; it is supposed to be about making your guests happy and relaxed.

2nd NEWS FLASH: Manners are not passive-aggressive weapons to deploy against other people to make them feel bad about themselves, as some of you here clearly seem to believe. The actual point of manners is to make other people feel comfortable in a social situation.

The Queen of the UK knows this: when anyone breaks the rules of protocol (like when Michelle Obama put her hand on her shoulder, or when Trump walked ahead of her), she never EVER corrects them. Why? Because she's classy, and realizes her job (and the protocol that goes with it) is not to make other people feel bad.

R167 I never said anything about correcting anyone, did I?

People leaning with their elbows on the table shuffling food into their mouths with their forks.

my 1st husband,god rest his soul , had the manners of a field hand when we started dating. He was a shoveler,and a plate huncher , and had not the dick been outstanding there wouldnt have been a second date. He wasnt a smacker though,thank god . That wouldnt have lasted more than a few minutes. He was raised in foster care and had zero clue about pretty much anything manners related. Long story short,by the time he died 12 years later you could have taken him anywhere. I had to be careful how I did it though,he was very sensitive to percieved criticism . Good manners as a whole have pretty much gone the way of the 8 track . Young people just dont seem to give a shit,and if you call them out they look at you blankly .

[quote] Good manners as a whole have pretty much gone the way of the 8 track . Young people just dont seem to give a shit,and if you call them out they look at you blankly .

It's baffling they don't respond to that. It's such good manners to call other people out.

Sweetie ,if Im holding the door for you and you sail on through without even acknowledging my very existence , you best believe Im going to call your ass out on it . Or if you sitting in a restaurant coughing your head off and not bothering to cover your mouth .Or if your talking loudly in a movie .

Everyone on this thread is a pathetic follower-type of human with no real core personality.

Teaching table manners shows which people are willing to do the sucky parts of parenting, and which people just want to have a good time and hang out with their kids.