"Huge Increase" - Americans Renouncing Citizenship Surges To Record Level

What a worthless article if it doesn’t say the top countries they’re moving to.

R1 I was just going to ask, “renounce their citizenship and move where.”

As with the people not wearing masks and not taking things seriously, I cannot wait until one of these fools runs into trouble abroad.

We'll start seeing their families in the US whine that the government won't help the fools.

I'll laugh even harder if they are denied entry to the US because they don't have the appropriate visas.

I envy them.

They have not all moved to one place.

We have many in Berlin but I have also met many in other countries on my travels.

Fat, disease-ridden Americans are being banned from traveling to most countries right now! The US passports are useless, that's why even Tom Hanks had to become a Greek citizen!!!

[quote]They have not all moved to one place.

Nobody said they did - we wanted to know what the top countries people moving to were.

Hmmmm...I wonder if I’d want to move somewhere that is full of American expats, though.

The vast majority of expats have not renounced their citizenship. People can either have dual citizenship or long-term visas or residence permits in foreign countries -- just like non-US citizens in the US.

So roughly 0.001661% of Americans renounced citizenship in the first six months of 2020.

It's a revolution.

The only problem with that is that the owners of the Federal Reserve demand 30% of everything you own before you get free. And if they think you lied, then, guess what, you instantly become a US citizen again (aka lifetime slave to the Federal Reserve via their private collection agency the IRS).

Yes, r9, plus, a lot of those renouncing were citizens by accident, having been born in the US to foreign parents who happened to reside in the US at the time of their birth.

However, US tax regulations like FATCA have majorly fucked over anyone who lives abroad and has US citizenship (known or unknown). All foreign banks that work with US currency (i.e., all of them) are being forced to check their entire customer bases for anyone who might be a "US person" by birth or marriage or domicile. Then they contact those people, some of whom had no idea that they were technically US persons, and tell them that they're either closing all their bank accounts, or they need proof that the customer is not a US person. That's driven a lot of the renunciations, where people have to go the US consulate, pay a fee, and get a certificate of renunciation.

I am a "real" US citizen who married a foreigner and moved abroad as an adult. I have been considering renouncing my citizenship for years, even though it pains me, because the US has made it effectively impossible for me to have a bank account (let alone something like an investment account). The reporting requirements for foreign banks when dealing with US citizens are so onerous (think thousands of bucks a year per customer) that they simply will not do business with you. And that even includes the local subsidiaries of US banks like Citibank -- if there happens to be one around!

I can't even get a joint account with my husband, because that would automatically make HIM a US person for tax purposes.

So think about it: as an American abroad, you're now basically locked out of having a retirement account, a credit history, anything financial at all. You can't buy or even rent a place to live in your own name, since you don't have accounts or a credit history or a financial institution to issue the check. You're totally dependent on someone else for all your financial matters. And it's all due to poorly-written, overreaching US tax laws.

(This may not apply to the very rich, who generate enough fees to make it worth the banks' effort, but I'm just an ordinary Joe.)

R12 what country are you in, I use HSBC in France and have a linked US account.

I'd move to New Zealand if I could. Austria now grants citizenship to 1st and 2nd generations of Austrian Holocaust victims, but no way I'd move there with all that flooding of Muslims and Africans.

Still, trivial numbers of people

[quote]The only problem with that is that the owners of the Federal Reserve demand 30% of everything you own before you get free.

And just who do you think these "owners of the Federal Reserve" are, Tina?

r10

It's not the numbers it's the wealth behind them. One Bezos is worth 100 million regular Joes. These are the types that are leaving.

As for the poster who wants to go to NZ, they don't want you. NZ is a nice place to visit for a week, but is otherwise worthless. The young leave in droves for Australia or London and never return. NZ has to fill it's empty spaces by allowing Asians to buy, yes buy their way into the country. Both Australia and NZ have schemes where you "invest" so much in a self employed start up and you can come over.

If you look at who are the primary US government bond dealers you will have a pretty good idea, Mary r12.

The US has reciprocal tax agreements with many countries. Last I read, you could earn up to USD$75,000 US tax free in a foreign country, as long as your income was subject to tax in your foreign country of residence.

Permanent residency in a foreign country gets you all the perks without the passport. The only thing you can't do is vote in national elections or serve in the government or the military. As R17 mentioned, many countries will allow you to buy your way in to permanent residency or citizenship.

Addendum to R19

If you're looking around for another passport and one or both of your parents were not born in the US, check the laws of the country they were born in. Many cash-strapped countries will happily sell you a passport based on birth-right. For example, my late Father and Grandfather were both born in Poland, and I have their birth certificates. For 438 Euro, the Polish government will happily FedEx me a Polish passport.

As a US or dual citizen you can get a job in a foreign country and earn money there and pay the taxes on it (I do, and btw the IRS earned income deduction for foreign residents is currently more than $75,000, closer to $100,000) BUT that doesn't mean that local banks in your country of residence will do business with you.

A second passport is nice, but doesn't help with this, because it's the fact that you're (also) a US Person that makes you toxic for reputable financial services providers. They are simply not willing to go to the trouble and reporting expenses of dealing with US Persons. I guess it's a business decision for them.

Believe me, I have a job and dual citizenship and I'm financially sound, and I still can't find a bank to open an investment account for me to even put some money into an investment fund. And not for lack of trying every oprion I could think of. It's that way throughout the EU since about 2018, and probably soon in Switzerland too, if it isn't already. In terms of financial services, you're treated like a Russian or a Nigerian.

Maybe it's different in China or a Caribbean tax haven, but having US citizenship is a genuine drawback in Western countries.