Cuomo is now begging the rich to return to Manhattan.

It’s just anecdotal, but we will see evidence eventually. Rich people with options take them.

If you can work from home, why not have your coffee on your patio overlooking the pool with the birds singing? It’s better than walking through your boarded-up lobby stepping over hostile homeless people. I’m not worried about daylight armed robberies in East Hampton.

Let them stay gone. Fuck them.

Easy to say, r2. Waiters, nannies, tutors, drivers, doormen, cleaners, bartenders need rich people as much as rich people need them.

No. We have survived without them years ago and we will again. You would know this if you were a Native.

wonder if it will become actually affordable for everyone else without rich assholes driving up prices to idiotic levels. Seize their empty condos and give them to the poor.

The Politburo @R5 has spoken.

Well not yet, r6, but the selfish and stupid rich will guarantee a revolution in this country eventually. They just can't help themselves.

Nobody with options will live in a congested urban centre dealing with a deadly epidemic if it's safer elsewhere.

You get more flies with honey so the government should entire the super rich by setting up ways the rich can self congratulate and give each other rewards for heroically serving in the battle zones. Lick all their asses and you might get some benefit. Rich people are as mobile as their capital is. They are surely figuring out residency in the least infected and acceptable countries.

should "entice"

They'll come back when he admits his disastrous handling of the pandemic which will be never.

Let's not forgot how defenseless Manhattan was when all that looting occurred. Most rich people must have seen the news and thought I'll never be protected there, I'm getting the fuck out.

They need to book themselves on musks Mars ship and get the hell off this planet.

Maybe you guys missed THIS >

'A single per cent of New York’s population pays half of the state’s taxes and they’re the most mobile people on the globe.'

R13 they'd the problem right there. Confiscate their wealth. You can be sure all are guilty of financial crimes.

The wealthy wanted to the city all to themselves creating a situation where they are surrounded by all those with less than. Never seemed like a good idea to me right? Be surrounded by the poorer folks while I'm living in comfort. How smart is that really even to be in Manhattan, what happens when something goes wrong? I guess when you are on top you are so comfortable you never consider the what ifs?

r13 [quote]Maybe you guys missed THIS > 'A single per cent of New York’s population pays half of the state’s taxes and they’re the most mobile people on the globe.'

It has been well discussed that rich people don't pay taxes. The wealthy have received extraordinary tax brakes since W was president and during Obama he kept them going and Trump increased the tax breaks. So excuse me if I say BULLSHIT on rich people holding the world of New York aloft with their tax money.

Excuse me r16. You and your little people kind know not of which you speak. R13, he knows, being a billionaire, albeit of the temporarily frustrated kind.

Bye. Go be with your offshore tax havens. More room for the rest of us. Hope this happens in other cities as well. Good riddance.

R4

You're either an idiot, ignorant of NYC history, or perhaps mixture of both.

Am a native (note use of lower case) New Yorker, and can assure you city is better off economically in decades post 1980 than before. Much of this is due in large part to city once again attracting high income persons to live within its borders.

Post WWII through good part of 1970's and into 1980's people were fleeing city in droves. Mainly white middle class and above households, taking with them not just their wealth but industry.

Poor right up through what could be considered lower middle class in this state and city pay comparatively very little in taxes. OTOH the economic impact from so called "wealthy" households is vast.

Just their daily household activity ranging from servants employed and services used make better off households economic generators for this city. Cleaners, childminders, interior decorators, contractors, laundresses (yes, they still exist), and so forth all make their living from better off households.

Then there is simple fact compratively small number of "rich" households are responsible for greater share of NYC and NYS taxes.

" Within the highest-earning 1 percent as of 2016 was an even more rarified contingent of roughly 3,500 city residents with incomes of $5 million or more, who made up the highest-earning 10 percent of the top 1 percent.

These filers earned about 19 percent of total AGI, while generating 23 percent of New York City income taxes and 28 percent of all the state income tax paid by city residents. On average, taxpayers in this income category generated $599,000 in city income taxes, and $1.3 million in state income taxes.

In other words, if just 100 New Yorkers in this super-high income category picked up and move to another state, the income tax loss alone would come to $60 million for the city and $130 million for the state."

R19 Empire Center, sounds right-wing

Truth to tell that cap on SALT tax deductions already spurred a good number of well off to move out of NYS, Albany cannot afford to have that turn into a stampede regardless of reason.

[quote]the income tax loss alone would come to $60 million for the city and $130 million for the state."

Bit of a piss in the ocean when you consider this from the linked article >

[quote]Now, there are calls for higher taxes on the super-wealthy[bold] to offset the projected $30billion deficit New York is facing over the next two years[/bold]

I've missed Andrew's daily TED-ish talks. Absence has indeed made the heart grow fonder.

Talk to me Andy, show me some graphs and charts. How is your sleeveless assistant Melissa?

Ma doin o.k.? How about your girls, is the one still with the same boyfriend? How about Captain the dog?

You still single.....I got the impression Sandra was open to reconciliation....

R20

Actually Empire Center for Public Policy isn't "right wing".

Seize their properties. Sell them on. Use the money for health, infrastructure and education.

The rich take more from society than they put in.

Mike Bloomberg, great to see you posting on DL!

This has happened in London as well. The rich have fled. The wealthy parts of London are like ghost towns. I wonder if they'll come back.

[quote]Seize their properties. Sell them on.

You'll need more rich people to buy them. Figure that one out.

We have one we'd like to send back right now.

The rich take more from society than they put in.

That's why they are rich.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The rich don't want to pay taxes, and then on the other hand you have a city that has an enormous class of welfare-dependent citizens who suck up lots of tax dollars. What to do in a situation like that?

People are generally moving south and west. Recent tax reform is accelerating this longterm trend. Who wants to live a degenerate, crowded, dirty, rat-infested city when you can have a new huge home with a beautiful acre and a four-car garage?

NYC is an insane asylum, and the rich people there are just as crazy as everyone else. If they had sense, they would move to a state without state income tax.

People are realizing NYC is a craphole

Cuomo better step up to the plate. I'm not sure he has a plan. There's no reason NYC should be so expensive for what we get. The cost of living is ridiculous. I life in a small co-op in Chelsea and my maintenance is $2,500 a month. I'm about to leave but who would buy at this point?

DeBlasio is worthless and can't do a thing.

Where are you going, R35?

This is the guy many here were saying should be on Biden's ticket or even replace him at the top. DLers are incapable of longterm critical and thinking.

Cuomo’s handling of COVID is now thought of as horrible

I would move to Panama, maybe, but everything is so up in the air in the world. Even Sweden seems like a mess.

I can't stand that Cuomo is being held up like a miracle worker. He fucked up and it's been us in NYC who took responsibility. He's awful.

Don’t they usually fuck off to the Hamptons or abroad this time of year? They’ll scurry back when they need to “work”.

If things haven't cleared up they won't come back Sag Harbor doesn't look like much fun either, everyone wearing masks.

DL's very own YourMillennialFriend fucked off to mommy and daddy's house in the Hamptons months ago.

They'll return, there's no need to worry. If they don't, their children will.

New York is where the action and ideas are. Is the people who make the city, and it's certainly not the boring rich people.

So tax them, let them go. I wouldn't worry. But the key is to tax them well, very well.

For all the people on this thread commenting about how a small percentage pays a large percentage of taxes - that's because THEY MAKE SUCH A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE AMOUNT compared to the average person.

They also make probably a massive amount of the general income for NY state residents.

It's not unfair - what's unfair is that there are so many people making so much money for little effort.

It is a wash for this year, but in 2021 if persons choose to remain outside of NYC for residence purposes they will save a bundle by not being subjected to city income tax surcharge.

If I was rich I would flee NYC and never come back. The pandemic has shown me that NYC isn’t worth it. Being trapped in a tiny apartment, homeless population increasing, depending on subways, it is miserable.

My job is the only thing keeping me here.

I don’t blame the rich fleeing. Who would chose to live this way when you can’t enjoy the benefits of the city for the foreseeable future?

And now with this checkpoint system?? Please.

Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they’re now trying to control everything by other means. They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.

I think it's now clear that the covid19 case numbers simply went down because everybody left, not because DeBlasio or Cuomo did anything brilliant.

Cuomo has demonized the wealthy for years and punished them vengefully the entire time. Covid19 gave them the perfect opportunity to tell him to go fuck himself. Both Cuomo and DeBlasio will go down as terrible failed leaders.

Holy Christ R35, $2,500 a month for maintenance? I'm in Queens and pay $650 for my 1 bedroom co-op mainenence. It's not the Ritz, but it's home and it's in a fantastic fucking area. I love where I live, other than the fact that it's in a city run by imbeciles.

[quote]Cuomo’s handling of COVID is now thought of as horrible

Hi Kellyanne!

We were hit with a global pandemic with two weeks warning and a deranged trust fund brat slash slumlord in the White House chasing all of our needed PPE and conficating it. Yeah, what a disaster Cuomo was!

Everyone here in NY is grateful for a sane, sober adult at the wheel instead of these insane ideologues in states of true disaster like Florida and Texas.

All these NY-haters (TINY SHOEBOX APARTMENTS!!!!) on this thread make me sick. Today was the third day in a row with zero Covid deaths in NY. Go find that in Phoenix, assholes!

The wealthy ain't moving to Charlotte, or Jacksonville, trust me. They're mostly summer Hamptons types (Jewish) who aren't going to move to Nebraska! Most of those who fled the city are still in NY state! Where the fuck else do you think the well off want to live? Around other wealthy people, fool! What other place has the infrastructure (and fucking patience) to support the needs and lives of multi-millionaires? Boise?

The only reason DeBlasio isn't putting up the homeless in the empty apartment on Billionaire's Row is because he's too stoned and too dumb to have thought of it. The guy is truly a disaster.

[Quote] Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess.

But its the private corporations who do not pay taxes yet need to be bailed out by our tax payer money.

Real incentive to return to the filthy city by setting up f’ing checkpoints like nazi Germany.

Checkpoints are necessary to keep the bug out. NYC has done a better job than other places and will want to keep the epidemic under control.

NY is like living in a shopping mall now, who would want to live there when you have all the money in the world?

New York is over.

O

V

E

R

over

Checkpoints don’t do shit. It’s unconstitutional. How can you actually advocate for checkpoints?

Also - remember how we felt in April when other states were claiming they would turn around New Yorkers? How quick things turn.

Also you think the anti-mask MAGA population have any interest in coming to NYC?

NOBODY has any interest in coming into NYC right now.

This has reminded me...there was a HUGE exodus of rich Americans to London in the 60s and early 70s. I know there were a lot of film people due to the film boom in London, but I don't know why else they all came. There were certain very fancy streets that were full of them, like Wilton Street. Then they all went back in the mid-70s when the going got tough here. They also started taxing them very heavily. My father gave a few farewell parties for them.

I’m shocked the NYC is the greatest city in the world queens haven’t invaded this thread yet.

They invaded the other NYC thread saying how the city is still amazing and there is tons of outdoor dining to be done.

I’m shocked the NYC is the greatest city in the world queens haven’t invaded this thread yet.

They invaded the other NYC thread saying how the city is still amazing and there is tons of outdoor dining to be done.

He’s right statistically - but the message was a little disturbing. Honest and true - but it was such a blatant and unvarnished meant of fact that we all rely on a few people who have grabbed all,the wealth in the world for themselves

We do need them - but there was a reason we (and CA) kept attracting them despite insane taxes and daily hassles of living (which are VERY limited when you never take the subway and have people to do everything). I think the SALT-elimination people will disappear. The extremely wealthy who want access to the best of everything at any price will return when restaurants, theater and other rich people return.

We wouldn't have to kowtow and cater to these super rich if there was some sort of income equality movement. Other people will gladly pay more in taxes with higher incomes.

I'm never going to cry over the plight of billionaires and multi, multi millionaires. They don't care about us.

Lastly - we are all taxed the SAME. The rich person gets taxed the same on the first $75,000 and does someone who makes $75,000 a year. It is just with additional income that additional amount is taxed at increasingly higher rates.

R61 = Donald Sinden, gleeful

If the rich are responsible for paying a large amount of city & state taxes I guarantee you it’s through real estate sales & nothing else.

[quote] Checkpoints don’t do shit. It’s unconstitutional.

Asshole. We had checkpoints all over the city after 9/11.

R67

Your ignorance is staggering. Just what part of above linked information do you have problems comprehending?

"The highest earning 1 percent of New York City residents generated 43 percent of city income taxes and 51 percent of the New York State income taxes collected from individuals living in the city as of 2016, according to newly released data from the Independent Budget Office (IBO)."

Assuming you aren't too thick to read and understand here is another report.

For those that don't know, read on, you might learn something.

Cuomo's largest fear is not so much those who have fled temporarily, but should the stampede out of city remain permanent for a good number of households.

Whether in LI or Westchester people would still pay NYS taxes, but NYC surcharge is another matter. As noted several times in this thread that resident surcharge brings in quite a bit of cash for city. If it decreases NYC will have holes in budget that must be addressed.

No need to tax more. Just tax better and more equitably and transparently. That would yield more income.

NY like NJ, Conn, MA and most other northeast states need to dismantle their vast social spending that acts as wealth redistribution. Then they could lower taxes thus attract and hold a more stable base.

Tons of threads from a couple of months back pressuring Biden and the DNC to pick Cuomo as VP just because of the positive coverage he was getting. Would have been a disaster if it had happened.

r72 that's good in theory, but what will the people who depend on social spending do? They won't pack up and move to another state, no matter how much we wish they would.

[quote] Truth to tell that cap on SALT tax deductions already spurred a good number of well off to move out of NYS

This, 1000x.

Biden needs to reverse this as soon as he gets into office. All of these people--including Trump himself--have now shifted residence to Florida.

We need them to go back.

R73

A - Anyone

B - But

C- Cuomo

Was same in 2016 DNC WH race, and feelings haven't changed much overall within the party at large.

Sadly we in NYS are stuck with AC and his big mouth for another two years, and unless something happens could have him again for another four when he runs again for governor in 2022.

It's too bad the plans are only to bring back the conditions that has brought us to this pandemic. We are doomed.

R75

Don't get your hopes up. Unless democrats keep majority in House and get a filibuster proof majority in senate, that SALT cap isn't going anywhere.

Truth to tell economists on both sides of political fence had been saying for years entire SALT deduction should go as it caused distortions in tax code.

Distorts how you say?

Well states like New York constantly raise taxes. This is (or was) a bit of smoke and mirrors because the very same high income households these increases were intended to affect also largely itemized their federal tax deductions. This lessened the blow of said local tax increases so people didn't protest so much, well not all of them anyway.

Now that punch bowl has been somewhat snatched away and those high SALT taxes have a completely different complexion.

Politicians like AOC are going to have to do more than mouth off on social media. They're going to have to come up with a plan to attract industry and wealth back. People in AOC's district are going to be hit the hardest. I bet you'll see an exodus among the poorer people too as low wage jobs will become scarce.

And anyone attacking Cuomo clearly isn't aware if what's happening outside of NY. California and Florida have no excuse for jumping into 1st and 2nd place.

R78, what you say is true.

I've been thinking the last few years that perhaps we (Florida) need to start matching state taxes to NYC/NY's if the wealthy are all going to move down here.

AOC, Ritchie Torres, and the rest of these progressive, liberal democrats are riding a wave of politics driven by immigrants from often Latin American countries where there are interesting ideas as to how government should operate.

In short basically tax everything to death, nationalize or by other means confiscate as much private wealth possible. Then redistribute that wealth to the "poor", after taking a sizable cut off the top. It's how Juan and Eva Peron got in, and Peronism manged to spread all over Latin America.

I've been saying that NYC will be like Detroit in 30 years.

Except, r82, it will never hold up in court and the tax everything strategy will be like getting blood from a stone.

[quote]Politicians like AOC are going to have to do more than mouth off on social media. They're going to have to come up with a plan to attract industry and wealth back.

Ha! I'm not sure AOC even knows how a bill becomes a law! She certainly hasn't passed any she's sponsored. She is an army of ONE interested in AOC only!

She was the ONLY Dem to vote against April's follow up Corona support bill saying it supported small businesses who don't pay employees enough (among other things) after claiming she was the one who chased Amazon out of their NYC plan, where most of the jobs averaged $135,000 a year! Too many fat cats getting tax breaks.

So, just to recap, AOC is on record as being against low-paying jobs as well as high-paying jobs, got that? It's quite clear the only person she wants to keep employed is herself. Fraud.

The rich won't be coming back to any of these cities if the left keeps screaming about disbanding the police and putting social workers on the front lines lol

It is going to be interesting watching the Pelosi woman (or whoever leads House democrats) next year regardless if they are the majority or no.

Besides AOC and others like her already in Congress, the progressive wing of democratic party is set to send more like her if those who won primary elections seal deal in November. Progressive democrats have unseated more than a few incumbents, and or otherwise are set to go into November in safe districts that all but guarantee they will win.

If people think AOC is something, wait until Ritche Torres, Bowman, Rashida Tlaib, and some others arrive next year.

So far Biden doesn't seem that interested in advancing much of the progressive agenda, and Pelosi has managed to restrain AOC and her group. What happens in future is anyone's guess.

"The Pelosi woman"....?

Does anyone here actually live in New York? I’m in my 30s and my wealthy (but not oligarch rich) single peers who work in elite firms are all in the process of moving back. Tons of people are buying condos in Brooklyn at least (brother is closing on a place and it’s competitive) right now too.

Just one time. Let's try living without the wealthy among us, shall we?

Yes, live in city, Manhattan to be exact.

Things are a mixed bag, and much depends on where one lives, and of course socio-economic position.

Yes, Brooklyn is hot RE wise along with suburbs. Former is due to strong demand for lower priced condos (compared to Manhattan anyway), and of course single family homes. You can get more for your money in terms of space with a condo in Brooklyn than much of Manhattan below Harlem. Throw in mortgage rates near nil for well qualified persons and now is a great time to make that move.

OTOH for the poor, working, and lower classes all over city things are a mixed bag. Tons of places are still closed and job losses in certain sectors are growing.

Then you have things like this:

Along same lines... see link below.

IMHO what covid-19 pandemic and state/city response have done is amplify something anyone who lives in NYC already knows, even if they don't really give it much thought. There is a great economic divide here, and that difference largely is determining how people are riding this event out.

R93 food lines are everywhere. Pittsburgh made the national news when a line for a food bank stretched a few miles.

New Yorkers love to talk about real estate. All. The. Time.

That's a good photo of him at R46

[quote] NYC is an insane asylum, and the rich people there are just as crazy as everyone else. If they had sense, they would move to a state without state income tax.

Florida?! I'd rather be robbed and beaten senseless in NYC.

Of course this stupid POS caves on schools, allowing them to reopen, but letting each school district decide what plan is best for reopening. So that way he doesn't get any blame.

Fucking asshole.

[quote]So, just to recap, AOC is on record as being against low-paying jobs as well as high-paying jobs, got that? It's quite clear the only person she wants to keep employed is herself. Fraud.

After she gets primaried at some point in the future by someone who actually wants to help the constituents, she will end up as a host on the 'The View.' That's what she really wanted in the 1st place, to talk on TV.

New York is the center of everything!

R98 New York more than meets the threshold for reopening. To keep NY closed would clearly be partisan as well as not what most NYers want. If any state is going to reopen schools the right way...it will be NY.

[quote]New York more than meets the threshold for reopening.

Because they've implemented stringent lockdown procedures.

[quote]To keep NY closed would clearly be partisan as well as not what most NYers want

Most NY'ers also want gyms and movie theaters reopened as well. But they won't because it's too dangerous. But somehow, bringing all the kids back to school isn't?

Because gyms and theatres don't feed, socialize and educate children, r102.

If the numbers tick up then they'll roll it back if needed. But so far things look good despite the dumbassess partying in Astoria, Fire Island and on Dyckman.

It’s great that the hotel can make money now but they’ll have to gut it if they ever want visitors again.

[quote]Because gyms and theatres don't feed, socialize and educate children

And what socialization is going to happen when kids have to be kept apart from each other all day? When they won't be able to sit together at lunch to eat? Not even sit together on the bus? They'll come to school and sit at a desk the entire day except once or twice to use the bathroom.

How much education do you think is going to get done with teachers and students also having to worry about implementing safety procedures several times a day? Teachers trying to plan for the week when they won't even know if they'll even be in the building at the end of the week.

[quote]If the numbers tick up then they'll roll it back if needed.

And you know how many kids and staff could get infected by the time that happens?

R105, they'll be around each other just socially distanced. You're overwrought post makes it seem like Sally will be sitting alone in a cavernous cafeteria and Johnny will be the only one on the bus. Jesus Christ your posts are some of the dumbest shit I've read.

[quote]Progressive democrats have unseated more than a few incumbents...

False. This is a complete lie, of course.

The number of Dems unseated by more "progressive" Democrats stands at ONE, the guy in the Bronx, whose win was like AOC's win. He won a primary against a perfectly good Democrat by ethnically appealing to more voters in an overwhelmingly Latino district. Nothing but "Identity Politics", there's no proof it was anything other than that. These so-called progressives have flipped ZERO SEATS red to blue. That's not power, or really anything.

[quote[...wait until Ritche Torres, Bowman, Rashida Tlaib, and some others arrive next year.

Uhm, Rashida Tlaib is ALREADY a Congresswoman you dope.

R49, shit you're right... that's fucking terrifying

R106 Stick to screwing your cousin and leave arguments to the adults.

Says r110, with a childish post. And you're gone.

Of course eldergays would take this opportunity to screech about AOC. A young latina with power and a huge following? "UNQUALIFIED!", "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION!" Was Breitbart too homophobic for you?

R112, NYC is having money issues. Sooner or later she's going to be expected to bring jobs into her district and tax the rich isn't the answer because the rich have left or are leaving. So far she hasn't been impressive legislatively and she's less than stellar at local politics.

Like Trump's inabilities have been magnified in this crisis, AOC's will be too in about 6 months to a year, depending on how long it takes to develop a vaccine.

R113 She has only been a congresswoman for a year, what exactly do you expect? There are members of congress who go years without passing a single piece of legislation. Racist, homophobic Steve King has been in congress for nearly two decades yet has accomplished nothing in terms of bills passed - all he does is use his platform to promote his far-right, fascist agenda.

Like it or not, a huge chunk of AOC's platform is representative of the future of the Democratic party (and the country as polls show): immigration reform, environmentalism, universal healthcare, etc. That is precisely why she triggers right-wingers and soft Kumbaya dems.

Breakdown of NYC primary voting, do with this bit of information what you will.

[quote] Like it or not, a huge chunk of AOC's platform is representative of the future of the Democratic party

Repub taking point.

r112 understands things only at the most surface level at which they coincide with his preconceived notions of what he wishes they were.

Other than giving stern politeness speeches (that took an entire week), campaigning for "progressives" all of whom LOSE their elections, bothering adults like Speaker Pelosi, and chasing jobs away, what exactly is this "power" AOC is wielding?

Any chance she's planning on using it to pass legislation anytime soon?

R114 she's going on 18 months and like it or not NY is in a crisis that is going to take leadership to navigate.

Has DiBlasio calling the departing rich “fair-weather friends who should be taxed even higher “ been discussed?

Yes R103, but as you also know, gyms allow for working out with hot men, cruising in the locker room for hot men, and easing those aching muscles in a sauna with hot men.

I think you'll find this legally supersedes all this " feeding, socializing, educating children" nonsense you're prattling on about.

Even if you try to leave NYC or NY they still fuck you over with the tax code if your employer is NY based. What a bunch of bullshit.

Even the non-rich are moving.

Some people are gonna make a killing, buying places cheap now and selling later.l when the city becomes desirable again.

R117 Clearly you are not familiar with the antagonistic attitude that many users assume when AOC is brought up. Have you missed all the threads where racist and misogynistic fuckheads cry about how she was "placed there" as a "PR stunt" or that she is a useless lunatic who should be put away? This is the reality of AOC threads here, time and again.

Power in today's world comes from influence and reach. With her over 8 million followers, user interaction second only to Cheeto in Chief and constant mainstream media presence, she has energized not one, but two generations of voters to become involved in politics. She has been instrumental in casting a spotlight on policies that were deemed "too radical" just a few years ago and yet now enjoy mainstream support (more on that below).

R118 And like I said, that's nothing in congressional time. And she is already showing leadership, but you would know this if you bothered to check what she's been up to. A quick glance will show you that just yesterday she announced her team has raised over $1m in donations for COVID aid (food pantries, protective equipment, financial support, etc).

R116 "Repub talking point"? How about you take a moment to look at the facts:

- 69% of democrats believe that immigrants should have a pathway towards citizenship (55% of the country agrees). Source: YouGov.

- 78% of democrats believe tackling climate change should be a priority (52% of the country agrees). Source: Pew Research.

- 59% of democrats support single-payer healthcare (55% of the country agrees). Note: support is rapidly increasing for obvious reasons. Source: Morning Consult, Politico.

This is where things are headed, no matter how much it upsets you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

R123, yeah, get back to me when you understand what a post Corona NY is going to look like. Your entire post is fantasy.

He is going to have to do more than beg. Rich people on the UWS and UES are moving out.

Cuomo looks like he likes to fuck rough.

Fuck the ny post, partisan trash rag

All the UWS Jews are in a tizzy over this.

DeBlasio ran on a platform of denigrating the wealthy, or even just the upper middle class. While COVID was not part of the plan, all of his choices have been slowly driving away well-off Gothamites.

"All the UWS Jews are in a tizzy over this."

So typical that 'they' don't like violent addled men shitting in the street and harrassing women and children, eh?

Evidently I'm one of the 420K that fled. My husband is older than I am and has cancer. He's considered high risk for COVID. There was no upside in sticking around under those circumstances.

[quote]Fern, who is six-months pregnant and the mother of a toddler daughter, [bold]just put her apartment of a decade near the Lucerne up for sale. [/bold]“I have definitely seen more crime, drugs and harassment in one week than in my whole experience growing up here,” she said. “I don’t want to see a child get hurt or raped, before they realize maybe it was a mistake to put [hundreds of] drug addicts and sex offenders near schools in the most dense residential population in the city.”

Gee, please send me the listing, Fern.

^^That quote is from the article linked @ R125.

I don't think Fern's too bright.

My favorite part of the article was the mom of the *teenagers* who said it’s a real shame she has to leave her 6 bedroom apartment because of all the junkies.

And was bold enough to pose for a photo for the story.

And the “Jews” comment is really unnecessary.

Is YMF back on the UWS or still holed up at his parents' house in the Hamptons?

My friend made a good point - is Chris Cuomo is even planning to return to the city?

R116: “Repub taking point”.

Freudian slip?

[quote]Let them stay gone. Fuck them.

Exactly R2. All the rich do is invade neighborhoods and force literally everyone else out. Fuck 'em all!

That tall homeless AA man seen in picture above is not new to UWS. He and his gf have been terrorizing 79th and Broadway for years now; in fact nearly any day of week he can be seen walking in traffic or standing at pedestrian plazas in middle of Broadway putting on a "show".

In fact last year the gf was arrested for throwing a block of wood at "William" which missed and struck a 70 year old woman who was passing by.

She was arrested and let out right back on streets within hours......

How long did it take NYC to turn from the crime-ridden cesspool where you could get mugged in Times Square of the 1970s to where the city was about 5-7 years ago?

Though he rarely receives credit, David Dinkins administration had begun the process of "cleaning up" Times Square, and his police commissioner came up with "Comstat" and other initiatives meant to address crime.

It really wasn't until Rudy G came in (1994) that you began to see real changes in terms of crime. Implementation of "broken windows" policies including things like stop and frisk while OTOH literally turned city into what some communities saw as a place occupied by a police force. OTOH it put an end to "revolving door" of justice.

Even for low level crimes instead of people being given desk appearance tickets (which they often ignored), everyone arrested was processed through the system. That is taken in, fingerprinted, charged, and often held on bail for even so called minor offences like fare evasion, loitering for purposes of prostitution...

Reaction to broken windows is what you see now in NYC and elsewhere. Only one district attorney (Staten Island) refuses to tow that social justice line, while all four others along with criminal courts along with BdeB have gone totally opposite.

In Rudy G's day every single one of those looters, rioters, etc.. that NYPD could have laid hands upon would have been arrested, processed and spent days, or weeks locked up until case was disposed of somehow unless they could post bail.

Fare evasion is no longer processed as a crime, so now it is rampant... Even squeegee men who all but vanished under Rudy G are making a comeback.

[quote]She said she started planning to move before the COVID crisis and recent neighborhood developments, but officially put down stakes Sunday in North Carolina

North Carolina does NOT want your dumb ass. Go back where you came from.

r142 is right. NYC is seeing an increase in crime because of the "get out of jail free" no bail/catch and release system of crime fighting.

Oh they just LOVE New York Jews in North Carolina! She'll be in heaven there.

Lol R145

Jews don't believe in Heaven.

The NYC real real estate market s collapsing and they decided it's BLM's fault?

L-O-motherfucking-L.

North Carolina has been one of the most popular relocation choices for people from the Northeast for a while r145. Areas like Cary are all former New Yorkers.

Dinkins was a fucking disaster just like this clown Deblasio. He doesn’t get a gold star just because he was black, as the city imploded on his watch. *MY FUCKING SIDES.*

Daddy fatty Alec Baldwin symbolizes the rich what run from Manhattan to the Hamptons... the story is kind of hilarious in a Bonfire of the Vanities kind of way...

"The well-heeled shoppers on the Long Island shores — where during the stockpiling phase, one delicatessen rationed how much $100-a-pound lobster salad customers could buy — cite many reasons for staying put, including the chaotic reopening of schools, a surge in crime in the city, a possible resurgence of the virus and the antipathy of New York’s Democratic mayor, Bill de Blasio, a long-time foe of Cuomo, who has sneered that he would not beg anyone to live in the city."

later, on the locals: "Others were blunter. “I came here for peace and tranquility not for thousands of people,” said Christina Dorn, 75. “If they weren’t so rude maybe it would be easier but the way they drive quite honestly it’s very uncivilised. They’re a different brand of people than we are here.”

Dorn, who moved to the Hamptons in 1966 but is now contemplating moving to Maine, is especially appalled by the way the “outsiders” dress. “The women look like hookers from 42nd Street, everything hanging out,” she said."

Other delights:

“Without museums, movies, bars, restaurants, being properly back online, New York really seems like a useless endeavour for the most part,” one said.

Besides, the city’s businesses have followed the money out east. Carbone, the Italian restaurant beloved of Manhattan scenesters, is now selling its $95 branzino (sea bass) and $69 veal Milanese from a temporary location in Southampton.

Bergdorf Goodman and Saks, the Fifth Avenue department stores, have started a same-day delivery service to the Hamptons. Art galleries, such as Hauser & Wirth, have opened outposts...

Why does it feel like the wealthy always and I mean always have the rest of us over a barrel?

Why can't cities run as smoothly as the burbs? The burbs don't accept crime or rampant homelessness. The citizens seem to be in agreement about acceptable behavior. Why is America's number one city such a mess?

[quote] The burbs don't accept crime or rampant homelessness.

If homeless street people were drivers instead of walkers, the "burbs" would have them, too.

The “burbs” outside of Nashville have tons of beggars near every interstate exit and busy shopping center “selling” newspapers provided by some charity group. It’s a nice idea but gets old when you see multiple people doing it in the same area and you see the same person everyday at the same spot. The “burbs” are not immune to this.

[quote][R117] Clearly you are not familiar with the antagonistic attitude that many users assume when AOC is brought up.

Nope, you missed the point entirely. I'm not talking about the right at all, I'm decrying the relentless stanning and fangurling from the left! AOC is always given free props for her ethnicity and looks, two things that are irrelevant to hiring, or promoting ANYONE in ANY JOB by law!

It is amazing to me how impressed you are with a Congressperson who has actually ONLY chipped away at what Dems have been able to achieve in the age of Trump! What has she actually DONE, and don't give me this "she's only been in office a year!" bullcrap. It's been a year and a half plus, and other freshman Congresspeople have actually passed laws and achieved results, and not by campaigning against members in their caucus, ignoring the most powerful woman EVER in government, Speaker Pelosi, and ignoring the needs of her constituents, who I promise you don't give a FUCK about Bernie or Justice Democrats' "power".

You are solely impressed with her ethnicity. That's actually not an "achievement".

[quote]How long did it take NYC to turn from the crime-ridden cesspool where you could get mugged in Times Square of the 1970s to where the city was about 5-7 years ago?

I think the murder rate here actually peaked in 1991.

The UWS was a VERY scruffy neighborhood block by block for the first decade I lived here (1981-1991). It is very sanitized now. Although this population of homeless and untreated mentally ill people is certainly a huge quality-of-life problem, their presence has always been a citywide issue. I lived three blocks from that corner for most of the 80s, and admit, it is a lot nicer now. I would be very vocal about warehousing mentally ill street people without enforced police presence to prevent lawlessness. Nobody likes that shit.

r3, Exactly. And that is why I stopped being a liberal a long time ago.

[quote]Dinkins was a fucking disaster just like this clown Deblasio. He doesn’t get a gold star just because he was black, as the city imploded on his watch. *MY FUCKING SIDES.*

Of course statistics and crime stats say the opposite. Giuliani also rode Bill Clinton's funding an additional 100,000 cops initiative, but the Dinkins CompStat changes and a rising national economy had already begun bearing fruit.

You sound like one of those nuts who are still impressed with the laziest jerk we've ever had as Mayor, Giuliani!

R158 Sooo lazy that he was voted in twice as mayor. So lazy that his approval rating when he left office was over 70%.

You also have to take into account Roe v. Wade for the drop in crime rates. Abortion was legalized in the US in 1973. Crime rates began dropping dramatically in the early 90s. Do the math.

Current research has debunked the broken windows theory

[quote]Current research has debunked the broken windows theory

Please show your work.

Notice how the "we need to be more like the Camden Police" was quickly dropped? Not only did they not defund their force, they also employed a broken windows policy.

[quote][R3], Exactly. And that is why I stopped being a liberal a long time ago.

Oh honey, admit it - you've always been an asshole. You were just looking for an excuse.

Broken Windows Theory Debunked

Even if Broken Windows worked - it was like saying locking up all poor people resulted in a reduction of crime. The number of innocent people whose lives were ruined by it - or experienced life long trauma and arrest records - never justified it. Having lived through it, it was the beginning of the general acceptance of a police state as “necessary”. We need to completely reframe the purpose and role of police (without using the stupid phrase “defund the police”)

The original broken windows theory has little to do with later police methods which bear its name and include the infringement of civil rights like stop and frisk. The broken windows theory simply states that there is a correlation between abandoned houses, litter, petty crime(jumping the turnstyle), garbage in the streets-- and more serious crime. I believe that to be true. It does not mean that the police should impose draconian law enforcement measures to combat any crime.

Link, R13?

It was in the original article, R168.

This is what he gets for not sitting back and doing nothing while cops attacked protestors and protestors brought armageddon down on to the city. This is happening in every major metropolitan area, and I don't blame them. Why would they stay in a place that serves to be the first place to go up in flames if society flirts with anarchy again if the government won't do anything about said anarchy and it'd be much easier to flee to the suburbs.

Say what you want about white flight, but it makes logical sense.

I’m no fan of the police but I also understand that after these protests they are going to step back and let crime rise. Most of the NYPD live in Long Island and staten island. You think they give a sh*t about people getting robbed and assaulted in the city now after they were protested for weeks? They put themselves in dangerous situations as part of their job. If people are screaming that they want them defunded and abolished - what incentive do they have to continue to run into dangerous situations?

People needed to think this through better.

R170, white people have been told and taught that they ARE the problem with NYC, the USA, and the world. I would expect a celebration if they start to flee the city. Fewer racist scum to oppress innocent "minorities" -- who will soon be the majority in any case.

I should add to my previous at R172 -- If whites start emigrating to places where there are few POCs for them to oppress (say, Caribou, Maine, or Pocatello, Idaho, or somewhere), I really hope that nobody calls for "diversifying" those places in the name of "justice." It's not fair to subject POC to so much whiteness. White people should be kept safely locked away from POC in distant, isolated places, so they can't harm anyone with their racism and privilege.

^^Where white people go, POC will always follow. The standard of living is just too good.

Oh, R174, you are so wrong. Whites beat down POC everywhere. Remember "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back"? With fewer white oppressors jailing innocents and murdering young black men for sport, imagine what a paradise cities could be for POC!

^^^ right.

Everybody sing ( but only if you're rich).

[quote]With fewer white oppressors jailing innocents and murdering young black men for sport, imagine what a paradise cities could be for POC!

There are already many majority-black cities all over the world.

R178, I've never lived in a majority-black city, but I assume they are havens mostly free of oppression, where POC don't have to endure having whites profit off the fruit of their labor. I also imagine the police are much more fair and honest, and innocent young men don't have to walk the streets in fear of being randomly shot by a cop for no reason. Without oppressive cops, I'd guess the streets are much more peaceful and safe. Sounds like a kind of paradise.

R179 try Detroit or Camden? Maybe Trenton? Or Gary, Indiana?

Sound like nirvanas.

R179 = Mary Woke.

r179 try Port-Au-Prince, Haiti or Kingston, Jamaica.

[quote]where POC don't have to endure having whites profit off the fruit of their labor.

In American cities, many if not most blacks are on some form of public assistance that's being paid for by whites. Nobody is making a dime off of the "fruits of their labor" because they don't do any labor in the first place.

R183, educate yourself. POC built this country.

The white people in pictures like the one at R184 holding up signs like that always make me laugh. Embarrassing.

Any eldergays here who have lived in NYC for decades? What do you think will happen to the city?

[quote]Any eldergays here who have lived in NYC for decades? What do you think will happen to the city?

It will continue to decline. De Blasio's term ends in 2021, so whether it returns or not depends on who takes over as mayor. I predict the next decade will be a decline for New York City.

The middle class is fleeing NYC and the rich probably will too (Trump has already pulled his residency and transferred to Florida and I think others will do the same). Because of this, neighborhoods will suffer and crash. Putting homeless people on the Upper West Side will kill that neighborhood. Homeless people aren't shopping in the stores and using the business services in that neighborhood.

Broadway is dead. It's closed through 2020 and will take a miracle to get it back. If tourists fall off, and it's likely they will, the Theater District will become the skeevy area it was in the 70s and 80s. (Lena Horne even made a joke about it in her Broadway show).

Workers are realizing that many can do their jobs remotely. Companies had already started thinking that way before Covid. It's a way to save on real estate (office) costs. Companies will continue to shrink their presence in NYC.

NYC is on life support.

New York’s economic outlook ranked worst in the nation

I told you: We're #1!

I wonder what will happen to Millionaire's Row?...sorry, Billionaire's Row.

In a way NYC had it coming to them. It had become SO greedy and money-obsessed.

The study cited in the NY post article is from some republican think tank so I’m not taking that seriously. It says UTAH is the best state in the country. Right.

R187 - thanks for your insights. I will take the opinion seriously of someone who has lived in the city for years.

This is why the next year will be a good time to buy. If you’ve studied the 1918 flu epidemic, it showed Americans have zero memory and aggressively forget about past problems. I’m waiting to buy over the next year. Like the stock market - buy when there is a panic.

It all depends how long Corona goes on for.

Rents are already dropping. When I moved to my 1BR in yorkville it was the only neighborhood below 96th street where I could afford a 1BR and not a studio. I just look at Zillow and suddenly they’re are 1BRs all over for what I pay now and some for even less.

And this is just the beginning.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R195, let's call these encampments what they are, De Blasiovilles.

Any DLers live in the NJ suburbs? If so - recommendations for towns that are good?

When my Manhattan lease is up in the spring - I’m out.

I’m glad I’m not that fool who dropped $300m on an apartment in NYC. Try reselling that.

I'd start a new thread, R197. Why just NJ?

We'd like to thank you, Warren Wilhelm

For really being in the way

We'd like to thank you, Warren Wilhelm

For giving BLM their way

Prosperity was free and easy

And crime was fin'ly gone for good

But you and wife were awfully greasy

And now the city is da hood!

We used to winter in the tropics We spent our summers at the shore And then we'd come back to Manhattan -- We don't anymore!

1 year after covid is completely contained, gritty nightlife without the boring professional class will probably be roaring. I wonder what year that will be, however. I'm way too old, but I predict an exciting rebirth - but when? 2024?

Maybe 2025? This feels like it could F up the city for 5 years?

Unless everyone and all the businesses plan to move back ASAP - which I doubt?

Cuomo hasn't reopened any fucking thing...there is no indoor dining in Manhattan but Long Island and upstate all have it. How fucked up is that?

All small biz are dying...more people will be out of work.

[quote] Cuomo hasn't reopened any fucking thing...there is no indoor dining in Manhattan but Long Island and upstate all have it. How fucked up is that?

Cuomo and de Blasio hate each other. And I think part of this is Cuomo trying to fuck de Blasio over.

It's an interesting dynamic. Cuomo adored his father and followed him into politics. De Blasio hated his father enough to change his last name. Cuomo wants to be part of the 1%; de Blasio wants to be "up for the struggle." Cuomo wants the 1% to return so the city can be a rich playground; de Blasio wants the 1% to leave so he can recreate the city.

And both hate the Jews.

Ruh Roh Raggy!

Thomas Keller is joining that bandwagon bailing out of Hudson Yards; Bouchon Bakery and TAK Room are closing.

"In an Instagram post Wednesday, Keller said the decisions were “were not made lightly” and “came after painful deliberations amid a pandemic that has devastated the global economy and caused irreparable damage to our business and our profession.”

Translation:

Not enough wealthy or rich persons are around to make this a viable business venture.

Let's be honest. Hudson Yards was never going to work. Even with the subway extension, it's just too far out of the way. The rich weren't going over there and it eats up too much time for tourists. Why make the effort when there's nothing there to enjoy?

New York seems like one massive city-wide house arrest.

R207

My guess is developers of Hudson Yards and other properties on Far West Side of Chelsea/Hell's Kitchen were counting on people who moved into all that new housing to feed various retail and hospitality.

Am over that way often enough as friends and co-workers have moved into various buildings from 9th to Westside Highway. Yes it is a PITA to get over there, but for those who live in area there is a need for various better retail, restaurants, bars, etc....

Every time I visited the Hudson Yards the place was packed. The mall too. Although exactly how much buying was going on , I have no idea.

The location at the entrance (or exit) of the High Line ensured a steady flow of tourists. A mall at that location made a lot more sense than the one at Time Warner.

With tourism gone there is no way those shops and eateries can survive now.

Problem for eateries in NYC is they are getting piss poor direction from Albany about when indoor dining will happen in city, and what form it will take.

For high end places that depend upon native and out of town (or even country) well off there is the international and increasingly local bans on travel.

People aren't willing to continue paying rent for months on end without knowing, and can't say I blame them.

As for overall tone of this thread; the demise of NYC has been predicted and greatly exaggerated previously. City always bounces back, and this time will be no different. Though how long it will take is anyone's guess.

In recent memory there was Black Friday, several local recessions, *two* terror attacks on WTC just for a start. After each event yes, plenty of people cleared out; but they came back and or were replaced by new arrivals.

People sold or otherwise left Tribeca or lower Manhattan after 9/11/01 telling the world and God that NYC was "over". A decade or so later many of those who wanted to come back couldn't even afford a broom closet.

As I posted on another thread, I've only lived in NYC for 20 years, but I've been here for 9/11 and the 2008 financial crisis.

Both were unimaginable events that seemed like the apocalypse. People left the city in droves.

After both events, pundits observed how superficial, expensive and wealth-obsessed NYC had become and pondered whether this calamity might change the city's character for the better. Something certainly more humble, because the wealthy had fled, etc.

Yet NYC bounced right back to where it was before—both times—becoming even more superficial, expensive and wealth-obsessed each time.

NYC has basically become America's Dubai — there is so much old, new and international money baked into and tangled up here that it will always be in a bubble; it will never return to the artsy wasteland it was in the '70s, as much as people fantasize about that being preferable.

I've known many people who lived in NYC in the 70s and most of them have said that they never want to see the city go back to that - the crime was insane.

Hoping it becomes more affordable for the creatives and those really committed to urban life - not just transitory rich kids.

I was fortunate to get a taste of a fun, free, less restrictive NYC pre-Giuliani. Unfortunately, if it does come back, I’m too old to really enjoy - but I’m not ruling it out. I would love to see a thriving dance scene again - where people dance for themselves and not posing for Instagram.

I would be fine with less strollers.

Well, they said the movie studio will be expanding in Brooklyn navy yards area...so there will be thousands of jobs added in a few years...that's what was reported in the news yesterday...hope it works out.

And they are reopening museums and bowling alleys (?) next week.

I don't know what the fuck cuomo is thinking...bowling alleys where they have to share equipment? and they are also drinking and eating inside, this is so unfair to the bars and restaurants.

gyms will be opening soon as well, he's issuing guidelines next week.

R205 = fake news moron.

Cuomo does NOT hate Jews. He's very close to the Jewish men who married his sisters. He calls them his "other brothers". Cuomo is a guy from Queens who grew up in a modest house and has little interest in becoming a member of the 1%. He was tow truck driver and mechanic in his younger days and still fixes his own cars. Get your facts straight.

I have issues with cuomo but agreed - he’s not antisemitic.

R218

Cuomo like other governors has to balance public health with also driving places out of business. Neither state, local areas and certainly not federal government is going to pay business owners to be shut down eternally. That $600 UI benefit is gone and both employees and small business owners are now stuck trying to sort out their next move.

AC is a control freak; that is clear, and it is how governor had handled this epidemic. But state is hemorrhaging red ink with a good number of small businesses likely never to reopen.

Now that covid-19 is the new reality just as with preventing oneself from catching flu, that is way to go forward.

[quote]Now that covid-19 is the new reality just as with preventing oneself from catching flu, that is way to go forward.

And how did "hEY iTS jUST lIKE tHE fLU!" work out for the economies of Texas and Florida?

Idiot.

Everyone's just going to have to tax the rich to the hilt and redistribute the money. Sorry Jeff Bezos. It must be done.

This thread reveals just how shockingly stuck in the past Dataloungers are.

"New York is the cultural center of the world, New York is where the ideas are, New York is about the people in the city not the rich."

Have any of you left your houses since 1967? New York is none of those things anymore. I swear, you old fuckers must be living in a Yellow Wallpaper like scenario where most of your time is spent wandering around in your room, stuck in a delirious trance, pretending like you're wandering the streets of Manhattan during the Summer of Love.

Grow up and get with the times. New York is not that place anymore. It's now identical to Los Angeles, except maybe New York has less palm trees.

This thread reveals just how shockingly stuck in the past Dataloungers are.

"New York is the cultural center of the world, New York is where the ideas are, New York is about the people in the city not the rich."

Have any of you left your houses since 1967? New York is none of those things anymore. I swear, you old fuckers must be living in a Yellow Wallpaper like scenario where most of your time is spent wandering around in your room, stuck in a delirious trance, pretending like you're wandering the streets of Manhattan during the Summer of Love.

Grow up and get with the times. New York is not that place anymore. It's now identical to Los Angeles, except maybe New York has less palm trees.

R158 it's easy to have low crime rates when everything has been de-criminalized. That's what's been done.

...FEWER palm trees...