Spain's former king Juan Carlos, suspected of corruption, leaves the country: palace

He hopped in his low rider and headed for Biarritz!

A big debate in Spanish media recently is whether a former king has absolute immunity.

Oh, that's sad. He was a genuine hero in Spain when he stood up to Franco and stopped a coup attempt in 1981.

Yes, he played an essential role in transitioning Spain from a dictatorship to a democracy. This rather sad. He was handsome too. He had a nice ass but I guess he couldn't stay clean forever.

Franco died in 1975.

so how much did he steal?

[quote] Franco died in 1975.

And he’s still dead.

Where's QE2? Had she fled the country too and WHY?

R7 I miss those days.

r4 He was never close to clean; he was born in privilege and wealth, so didn't have to break the laws for much, yet was into illegality from early on.

Juan Carlos was Franco's chosen successor.

OMG - he could go stay in Tyler Perry's home with the Sussex clan; it could be a new reality show: Royals In Exile

Spain never liked its Kings (and we have reasons for that because most of them were incredibly stupid), but people liked Juan Carlos (way more than they liked the monarchy), so everything that happened with him in recent years it was a big dissapoinment for his supporters

R12 If he were younger, he'd be hitting on Meghan in no time.

Is his son the hot one?

OP's link isn't working, so here's a Guardian article about it.

Was he in Jizzlane's book? Didn't Virginia G. say there was a Spanish king or PM?

There are just too many rapist/pedophile/oligarchs to keep track of. Can somebody make a chart or something.

R17 I doubt it, he always was a womanizer but even younger than him most of his women were way above the legal age

Wow. His son had already stripped his shady dad of his annual stipend back in March. Was this already known to the Spaniards?

[Quote]In March Felipe stripped Juan Carlos of his annual stipend and renounced his own personal inheritance from his father after reports that he was in line to receive millions of euros from a secret offshore fund with ties to Saudi Arabia.

[Quote]Three months later, Spain’s supreme court launched an investigation into the former king’s role in a deal in which a Spanish consortium landed a €6.7bn (£5.9bn) contract to build a high-speed rail line between the Saudi cities of Medina and Mecca.

[Quote]On Monday afternoon the royal house published a letter sent by Juan Carlos to his son saying he would “move away from Spain” in the wake of the “public repercussions that certain past events in my private life are causing”.

R19 I think the only surprise is that he left the country.

[quote] Was this already known to the Spaniards?

This has been publicly known for several weeks.

The whole family should leave. They are thieves and whores.

R20 And even that was long rumoured as an strategy to save monarchy.

Felipe has a lot of problems, first he is not linked to any important historical moment like his father was, and Spain is not UK, monarchy never was a big thing to start with.

The country changed a lot in quite little time (in the 90's bullfighters were extremelly popular, right now most people dislike bullfights and are extremelly against them), and unlike other countries Spain tends to go to the left, so Felipe better clean his image as much as he can or Spain will be a republic in no time

Didn't he called Juan Carlos' wife "La Chacha," after he heard Vicente Fox use that term?

La Chacha = The Help

Remember that the Spanish transition from Dictatorship to Democracy was orchestrated by Franco himself and he made sure that his successors did not fuck it up. There are lots of Franco sympathizers in Spain (the church, the military and the PP have never believed in true democracy). Remember that Suárez suggested having a referendum about the monarchy that was quickly ignored, that the members of the Supreme Court just rolled in directly from the Franco team.....

Yes, when you take a hard look at Spain, it always feels like it could go revert back. And we saw glimpses of it in the last two years.

I don't think so.

Of course there are still people nostalgic of the old regime (and people who weren't born by them who declare themselves franquist) but the rise of the far right on Spain is very linked to the rise of the far left some years ago. Some people who were angry an voted for people who gave easy answers to difficult questions.

The results of Vox were very linked to the situation of Cataluña in the moment of the election. Unfortunately for them (not for the rest) they are really bad polititians and unlike Marine LePen, Santiago Abascal has not even an ounce of charisma. Probably half of them will end in jail because they were in the most corrupt part of the PP.

The main problem is PP themselves, and their leader who is stupid enough to not see that the votes are in the center and not in the far right.

Right now the coiuntry is very polarized, it's the old if you are not my friend you are my enemy. In Spain we are sons of Cain for sure and we like to destroy each other

R24 You must be thinking of Letizia, Felipe's wife, who comes from a humble background. Sofia, Juan Carlos' wife, was born royal (Greek/Danish).

R28 Yes, but he despised her publicly a couple of times.

Not that i feel pity for her, she seems to be pretty homophobic. She complained on a book that Pride parade was noisy and disturb the whole city

R12 that’s a good one, that’s funny

[quote] ome people who were angry an voted for people who gave easy answers to difficult questions.

Sounds familiar.

By European royalty standards, the Spanish royal live in modest homes. There’s an official palace for special occasions (like Buckingham Palace will become). The current king lives in something like a McMansion.

I doubt the dowager queen will go into exile with him.

The queens don't like each other and are both crooked. Here's Letizia blocking Sofia from using the daughters for a photo op.

And he also killed his brother.....accidentally.

Also remember that Spain has never faced their Civil War Trauma. After Cambodia, Spain is the country with most mass graves. Right now, over 100K cadavers are still buried. You cannot build a democracy when half the country does not want to start facing the past.

[quote] And he also killed his brother.....accidentally.

“accidentally”

Why was Juan Carlos made king when the monarchy was restored and not his father? Was he deemed too old?

I compare the sudden apparition of franquists in Spain to the sudden apparition of racists in the USA. Both were there, but suddenly they seemed everywhere, probably encourage for the situation.

In Spain Vox gave us surrealistic moments like Abascal defending gay rights and accussing the left from being homophobic. That was a good laugh

R37 Because Franco didn't liked his father

R38, with all due respect, that is not correct. If you were a Franco apologist, you have always been welcome in Spain. The Right in Spain has always been very strong and the Church and The Army were unequivocally pro Franco and they were very vocal about it.

Where's he going? To Los Angeles to live near H&M?

I have been reading Spanish Press and can they let someone who is being accused of serious tax fraud go? I am not sure what happens if they let him go.... and for R38 from El País....El PP sobre la decisión de Juan Carlos I: “Demuestra su lealtad a España, a la monarquía parlamentaria y a Felipe VI”

The right is defending him of being loyal to Spain....tax fraud, Swiss bank accounts, money laundering be damned.

And he has already left Spain.

[quote]And he also killed his brother.....accidentally

As it sometimes happens...

R40 True, but not in the media and not in social media.

Vox is quite popular right now (it won't last) and some people proclaim his xenophobia quite freely something they were reluctant in the past.

The part that was franquist on PP was very influential but not big

R42 Right now there's no case against him. And he said (or to be totally true, his lawyers said) that he'll be back in Spain in case he has to declare on court

Spain is a country that needs a strong leader in order to function. Franco was able to defeat the communists and keep Nazi Germany out.

This video is of a young, blond Juan Carlos returning to Spain for the first time in 1948.

It's a damn shame that he has tainted his legacy.

R46 That's one of the few things that he did right, he knew Hitler hated people who were late at meetings, Franco only needed to be late to his meeting and Hitler was just not in the mood to anything. Franco knew Spain was destroyed and couldn't participate in the war

R37, Franco did not trust Don Juan, and believed he would try to mitigate or overturn the fascist state if he came king. Juan Carlos was preferred because the fascists thought that being young, he could be moulded into a puppet king. They were very wrong.

[quote]And he also killed his brother.....accidentally

It happens

The queen mother is Sophia. WHET her?

Sofia and Juan Carlos have been married in name only for decades. They lived in separate wings of the palace. There are some who say that she lives in London.

London is where her brother's family is, so it might make sense for her to spend some time there. The impression I get of the Juan-Carlos money scandal is not one of tax evasion but of bribery.

Where did he go in exile?

He was hand-picked and became a total puppet of Franco as King. He's accused of accepting $100 million dollars from Saudi Arabia in exchange for a deal involving high-speed rail construction. His wife, and most of his family despise him, so I suspect he will be alone in his exile, and it will be outside the EU in a country that has no extradition treaty with Spain. Cunt.

He should take his ugly homophobic wife Sofia with him. Man, that old bitch is homely as fuck.

R55 That's not true, in fact he did the opposite of Franco was expecting of him, that's the reason he was beloved before.

Of course he was overprotected by the press. At the beginning of the 90's nobody could tell something about the royal family in the press without facing the consequences, but he made the mistake of dissapear at a time one of the ministers was very ill so the government had to name other one and he had to sign it to law.

And he was missing, and european press published he was with one of her mistress

R55 He didn't become king until after Franco was dead, so no puppet, no puppet. Everything he did was his own doing.

R58, yes, he was Franco's puppet. Franco brought him in and he has never ever criticized Franco.

It is true that Franco named him as his successor but puppet means that someone is pulling your strings and making you do what they want. It's impossible to do that when you're dead.

Franco might have been dead but all the military, police and judicial system was very much in place. Some people are still arguing that Franco's system is very much in place.

R61 Oh, I see. Thanks.

I used to work for a famous London department store, and Sofia was a regular customer. She’d go about pretty much unnoticed except by those of us whose job it was to know who she was (and Spanish tourists who couldn’t believe what they were seeing).

Of course the remnants of it are still there. Franco couldn't take it with him. All those people indoctrinated in right wing thought remain right wing. The Catholic Church was right up Franco's ass and it's not going away. The Catholic Church is down with anybody that protects it and enhances its power. Yes, much of Franco wrought is still there.

But they did dig up Franco. And that was a beautiful thing.

Where did he go?

I think it is still unknown to the public R65

I have heard Dominican Republic as a possibility and also Panamá.

How about Venezuela?

Juan Carlos is also a known elephant poacher.

More dead African wildlife.

He'll be fine. He sends his love. Oprah is arranging for one of her friends to lend him a spare mansion.

Franco was immediately reburied in a family vault in a cemetery in Madrid.

He's not going to some underworld country like Panama or the Dominican Republic (of all places). I see Montevideo or Buenos Aires,

[quote] He's not going to some underworld country like Panama or the Dominican Republic (of all places). I see Montevideo or Buenos Aires,

Would he be the first Spanish king to live any time in Latin America?

[quote] He's not going to some underworld country like Panama or the Dominican Republic (of all places). I see Montevideo or Buenos Aires

Uruguay and Argentina are literally underworld countries.

Monaco. A sunny place for shady people.

Many reports are saying he is going to DR.

In the old days he would have sought asylum in Switzerland -see Duvalier for instance - but times have changed. The gov frequently blocks access to ill-gotten funds now.

Even the glamour of exile is dead today.

[quote] Man, that old bitch is homely as fuck.

Then they're absolutely a pair.

I notice you have nothing to say about how plain Juan Carlos has become now in old age.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Some people are saying he’s going to Portugal, to someplace where he spent his childhood

[quote] to someplace where he spent his childhood

And killed his brother.

R72, it has been confirmed that he is going to DR.

What about Queen Sofia? Will she go with him, or will she wave him off at the airport singing "So Long, Dearie"?

[quote] or will she wave him off at the airport singing "So Long, Dearie"?

I doubt she'd even see him off. She'll probably kick his ass on the way out.

Isn't Juan Carlos the last of the Capet line. 1400 years of royalty is done. (Mostly France)

^How is he the last of any line when his son Felipe is literally king? God, the stupidity here sometimes. Anyway, they're Bourbons.

Also saying he stood up to Franco in the attempted coup of 1981 when Franco (who personally put him on the throne) had died in 1975. Did you all flunk out of school?

Uruguay and Argentina are literally underworld countries.

As in "Mmm, Skyscraper I love you" or vampires and "lycans?"

R87... I think you are the one who flunked out of school. Franco died in 1975 so "He stood up to Franco in the attempted coup of 1981" would be a miracle. It has long been rumored that JCarlos had a lot to do with the planning of the 1981 coup by Tejero.

R89 needs to read R87 again

[quote]Also saying he stood up to Franco in the attempted coup of 1981 when Franco (who personally put him on the throne) had died in 1975.

Made him oodles easier to stand up to.

Has he left in the middle of the night?

Yes, r90. I was wrong.

He's gone to DR via Portugal. It's all in the Fail. He seems to have fled.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The Bourbons are a branch of the Capet line. King Carlos is listed as a Capet. And yes his son would be a Capet too. Also Bourbons.

No snipping comments from me.

This is the palace the king left. He won't find its like in DR.

[quote]What about Queen Sofia? Will she go with him, or will she wave him off at the airport singing "So Long, Dearie"?

I doubt she'll even do that. In one of the articles about his departure it said the gossip is they haven't shared a bed in forty years.

Did his mistress fly with him or is she arriving separately?

It was a former mistress who informed on him to the authorities. He may feel that getting a new one in DR would be a better idea. I am sure sugar baron Pepe can make the arrangements, along with providing free board and lodging.

The DR of all places. The Bahamas, the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, I could understand.

I feel sorry for JC. Sold out by his whore. Pussy don't pay as a friend's father used to tell us when we were teens.

Perhaps he has cronies in the DR who will protect him?

Liaisons. What's happened to them?

[quote] The DR of all places.

What are the Spain/DR extradition arrangements?

I haven't found them via Google. Any Spaniard / DRer here?

He was framed.

[quote]Juan Carlos was described as a charismatic leader close to the people who could be harsh against those who abused their power. In a 2007 meeting of leaders, when Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez interrupted Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, Juan Carlos told him: “Why don’t you shut up!”

It's not yet confirmed he went to the Dominican Republic

I don't know if this is true but this house is supposedly where Juan Carlos is staying in the Dominican Republic.

Criminal Spaniards always run to Latin America. None of the Latin American countries will extradite him. From Mexico to Argentina, those countries are full of Spanish people who never get extradited. Juan Carlos will live his last years partying with the Chachas and his pals.

You know it's true. He is never seeing the inside of a cell. It's how the world works.

[quote] In a 2007 meeting of leaders, when Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez interrupted Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, Juan Carlos told him: “Why don’t you shut up!”

I saw that incident on the TV. But Chavez has been dead a long time; without him, who has allegedly framed JC? Regrettably, I see JC as the architect of his own downfall, through stupid greed and lust, common enough symptoms of even mild personality disorder.

Current, younger king (or prince?) is hot.

R111 How come the younger, hot king is so tall: where does that come from?

[quote]I don't know if this is true but this house is supposedly where Juan Carlos is staying in the Dominican Republic.

It won't be his only one. I'm sure he'll have various places to stay in many other Latin countries. Vicente Fox must be ecstatic. Their bromance can resume.

R113 Perhaps one or more of those countries can restore the monarchy and he can travel about like an itinerant king of olden times!

r112 King Felipe gets his height from his mother's side. Queen Sofia and Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh are first cousins.

The Borbones have always been trash!

Oooooh, Felipe!

Why did Spain choose a monarchy? By the mid 70s monarchies were past their prime.

Spain didn't choose it Franco did. The Fascist Franco beat the Nationalists who overthrew the monarchy.

[quote]I saw that incident on the TV. But Chavez has been dead a long time; without him, who has allegedly framed JC?

This was done in 2007 and before. It just came to light now.

Having two first names is stupid for a man

Billy-Joe, is that you at R121

[quote]Spain's former king Juan Carlos, suspected of corruption, leaves the country: palace

It happens

Spaniards today are taller than they used to be. Franco wasn't great with health care and nutrition. 5'9" was pretty tall in the 50s and 60s. Spaniards born later than the 60s... they are often considerably taller.

Tell me about it R123.

We know how to handle people who won't hand their leaders back over

Sorry to hear you had to go.

These things happen. You're in good company.

The Iranian Shah-rina is still alive, no?

I guess they're not going to disclose what country he moved to?

And I like how they make it sound temporary.

The Fail have said DR and they may very well be right.

Shahbanu R128

for r131

There are many grand exclusive enclaves in the DR!

The Shah-rincess!

Queen Sofía is not traveling with him. Apparently though they both lived in the Zarzuela Palace, they've been estranged for years.

Great the queen mother gets the whole palace to herself and she can clear out all of JC's whores who no doubt have been squatting in various antechambers in his wing.

Dumb, r125. That's the Emperor Jean-Baptiste Bokassa of the Central African Republic, not Idi Amin. Both were cannibal despots, though.

R114, Albania needs a monarch.

r138

So does Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, Italy, Bulgaria, Russia and Greece.

Albania seems crappy enough for him, tho.

R50 They didn’t even celebrate their 50th anniversary. She knew he had a long time lover and he wanted to take off Sofia’s titles. She also spent lots of time in England with her sister, the former queen of Greece. Felipe needs to work harder to keep monarchy. Felipe is popular but Juan Carlos has damaged RF rather badly with several scandals.

[quote]Carlos has damaged RF rather badly with several scandals.

Which can arguably be seen as a good thing.

I have little sympathy for that raisin-faced wife of his, even if she had to put up with this bastard for 50+ years. Here's an actual quote on homosexuality from her:

[quote] "If those people want to live together, dress up like bride and groom and marry, they could have a right to do so, or not, depending on the law of their country, but they should not call this matrimony, because it isn't. There are many possible names: social contract, social union. [...] I can understand, accept and respect that there are people of other sexual tendencies, but should they be proud to be gay? Should they ride on a parade float and come out in protests? If all of those of us who aren't gay came out to protest we would halt traffic."

^ And you wonder why I left her..

R143 She is a product of her time and religion.

The biggest insult for a Spanish/Latin man is to be called "maricon".

[quote]She also spent lots of time in England with her sister, the former queen of Greece.

Former Queen Sofia spends time in England with her BROTHER, former King Constantine II of Greece.

[quote]That's the Emperor Jean-Baptiste Bokassa of the Central African Republic

Sorry. Jean-Bédel Bokassa

[quote] Former Queen Sofia spends time in England with her BROTHER, former King Constantine II of Greece.

Tino moved back to Greece several years ago.

I'm glad he's in exile. That filthy pig mad a number of passes at me. ME, the queen of hearts.

[quote]She is a product of her time and religion.

Not to mention her "royal" privilege. Without that no one would give one fuck about her opinion on anything.

Isn't there a bungalow awaiting him in Mar-a-Lago?

R151 My point was that she's not the only person in Spain or Latin America of that generation (she's 81) to have those beliefs. The one thing different, I think, between the Spanish and American cultures is that the Spanish are less likely to be openly nasty or abusive to a gay person.

Sofia isn't Spanish - she's a Kraut who was born in Greece.

She has lived in Spain most of her life. The Countess of Romanones was born in the US, she became totally Spanish after her marriage to a Spanish count. Also, do you think old Germans don't think like that?

R145, that excuse doesn’t wash anymore. She’s a ferret faced homophobic cunt.

R147 Yes, you’re right. The queen is from Denmark

The only thing the gays will forever like Sofia for is churning out the hotness that is Felipe VI out of her homophobic Germanic pussy.

Felipe is hot. But that face doesn’t work for his sisters. They’re as unfortunate looking as. Sofia.

Sofia, the only woman alive whose father was a king, brother was a king, husband was a king and son is a king.

Isn't the pejorative for maid "ta-ta," not "cha-cha?" In the U.S. among Mexicans, cha-cha is (from "muchacha") a somewhat trashy overly made up girl in too-tight clothes.

Both my parents were from Spain and were adolescents/teens during the Civil War. My mom and her sister actually were maids during post-war years for a wealthy family in Madrid. She was 18 -20 and even she referred to herself as a ta-ta.

About generational differences in height: My mom was 5' 6" and my dad 5' 7". I'm a 5' 10" female. My parents' critical growth years were during the Civil War when nutrition was lacking. Food was scarce, but they were more fortunate than others because as peasant farmers they had some land to grow food and animals. Sometimes the authorities required them to feed soldiers passing through their area leaving them with even less. Both told stories of being hungry or only getting a plate of beans in a day. My dad's older brothers were all 6 footers , but they were 10-18 years older. My mother's uncles were also 6 ft plus tall, but her brothers were only a couple of inches taller than her. Bad nutrition with too little protein.

What is the connection of the Dominican Republic to Juan Carlos or to Spain? It's been almost 150 years since the Spanish colonial days in DR.

Sofia must be over the moon to finally be rid of that old goat. And HE's the one that gets exiled and she gets to stay within reach of her kids and grandkids. Happy days. 💃

And the mistresses are about to be thrown out on their ass. I bet Sofia wishes it was the good old days when she could have their heads.

Sofia was born in Greece not Denmark.

^^ Egad those teeth!

The better to bite you with R166.

European royal family members are dishonest, corrupt, greedy criminals. Slow news day?

Are there like tiers of royal families? I feel like the British, Spanish, Japanese and maybe Saudis would be at the top.

[quote] Albania needs a monarch.

Here you go R138. Link says Sofia attended his wedding.

The Japanese is the oldest. The British the most famous. The Saudis probably the richest and most murderous.

[quote] In the U.S. among Mexicans, cha-cha is (from "muchacha") a somewhat trashy overly made up girl in too-tight clothes.

And that's only because of Cha-Cha Gregorio from "Grease"--and they call her that because she's the best dancer at St. Bernadette's!

[quote]In the U.S. among Mexicans, cha-cha is (from "muchacha") a somewhat trashy overly made up girl in too-tight clothes.

What about chola?

Are there like tiers of royal families? I feel like the British, Spanish, Japanese and maybe Saudis would be at the top.

No, there really aren't among monarchs themselves. They consider ALL monarchs equally chosen by God.

Queen Victoria would not socialize with British aristocrats as equals, but she would with Queen Emma of Hawai'i, for example.

Doo he need company? Do the Mexicans in DR have malls? If so call me, King Juan, I am available!

They're saying he went into exile "abroad". But one of the articles claims he went to Portugal. Big deal! That's like going from L.A. to San Francisco. They then claimed he left Portugal and went to the Dom Rep, but officials there say he's never arrived in the country.

I wish him well, it's too bad what happened to him.

[quote]And that's only because of Cha-Cha Gregorio from "Grease"--and they call her that because she's the best dancer at St. Bernadette's!

She taught me the most forbidden dance of all, El Penatrado

Portugal was just a layover. He moved on, but where?

I’m amazed at how awful Felipe has aged. He used to be handsome.

He's under a lot of stress r180. Between the conflicts of his idiot father, his selfish sister and BIL, the bad relations between his wife and mother, the troublesome separatist Catalans and current hostile (republican-leaning) left-wing government, he has a lot on his plate.

And of course also, the large COVID-19 crisis in his country.

R181 JC is blazing the trail soon to be taken by Felipe if the anti-monarchists have their way. When they get to their jungle luxury retreat they'll share the proceeds of JC's decades of bribery and corruption. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

This is why the young princesses have been forced into the spotlight early, making speeches and attending events. Prince William is a grown-ass man yet he could hardly be bothered to do more than than the bare minimum of engagements until his brother went into a self-imposed Beverly Hills exile.

I guess you can tell how stable a monarchy is by the time they force the heirs to put in some "work". The Spanish princes will probably a 70-year-old Queen by the time Prince George starts taking on a full schedule of engagements.

But do you think that Felipe and Letizia would have to leave Spain, if the monarchy is voted out r183? He himself is not corrupt, and is considered a straight shooter. I think Letizia would want to stay in Spain and raise her daughters there, no matter what.

JC had to leave due to his shenanigans. I liken Felipe to perhaps the recent abdication of Albert of Belgium (for his son, Philippe): done because of his behaviors, but he was allowed to remain in the country along with his wife as long as he stayed out of public life.

They've already stripped the monarchy of most of its powers. They don't even have a coronation and he doesn't get crown. Nice being king but their government basically made him king in name only. Removing them wouldn't be a big deal.

The annual budget for the royal family is €7M.

Felipe's disallowance of father Juan Carlos was well known; he likewise disavowed any financial inheritance. There is no good reason for a Spanish royal family of Bourbons and Greeks, but Felipe is smart enough to have seen the writing on the wall and makes an effort at appearances (which his father couldn't be arsed to do); he aims to appear interested in all of Spain, and does okay at his figurehead role. He appears to know that he's a lucky fuck, granted palaces and luxury for no good resson he figures if he runs a lean ship and does the right things that he can hang onto a nice ticket. His father stole hundreds of millions in bribes and always put crown (himself) before state. He was placed in power by Franco to deflect from radical revisions of Francoist institutions and enablers. Juan Carlos is a disgusting man for saying fuck you to Spaniards and her setting and shooting elephants while Spain suffered a terrible financial and cultural crisis, with hungry people in the streets.

[quote] Albania needs a monarch.

Kneel before Zog!

[quote] They don't even have a coronation and he doesn't get crown.

Even though he doesn't have many actual powers, the Spanish constitution itself says Spain is a parliamentary monarchy and refers to the the king and the institution as the crown. The king is head of state. It reads, in part, "The person of the King is inviolable and is not subject to responsibility."

[quote] [R145], that excuse doesn’t wash anymore. She’s a ferret faced homophobic cunt.

She's a Roman Catholic convert and converts seem to be the most overzealous and bigoted.

Her brother-in-law and sister-in-law are far from homophobic. Her sister is not homophobic. Her son and daughter-in-law are not homophobic.

Margarethe of Denmark is not homophobic. A court official once asked her if she knew a member of her government was gay. The official wasn't sure what to do about an upcoming reception at the Amalienborg. Margarethe was a bit annoyed and snapped at him, "Of course, I know. And they are both (meaning his partner) to be invited."

Queen Beatrix (when she was still queen) encountered a similar situation when an official informed her that a government minister wanted to attend an official function with his same-sex partner. Beatrix smiled and shrugged her shoulders and asked what the problem was. Queen Juliana, Beatrix's mother was also fine with the gays.

Beatrix and Margarethe are of the same generation as Sophia, so age is not an excuse for homophobia.

[[Quote]What about chola?

They're totally different. Chachas will gossip and do mean girl stuff. That's typically as nasty as they get. Cholas have gang affiliated boyfriends or are in gangs themselves. Typically have harsh makeup with waxed, plucked eyebrows dramatically penciled in like Cruella De Ville. Known to be violent/fight. Scary all around.

Thanks for the clarification, r191! 👍

[Quote]Margarethe was a bit annoyed and snapped at him, "Of course, I know. And they are both (meaning his partner) to be invited."

Big love for Margarethe.

The Swedish royal couple are also gay friendly and they're both around Sofia's age too. Here they are seen standing under the rainbow flag (the pic was taken in some restaurant whose owner is gay).

Sweden, Denmark and Netherlands: northern Protestant monarchs.

The Romans to the south like Sophia are a different matter.

Bring back the Greek monarchy.

They're banned from Greece R196 so I assume that's a backdrop behind them, somewhere in Surrey England where they dwell in exile.

More recent photo of the Greek royal family without the children.

Brother/sister, cousins and in-laws to the Spanish royal family.

Greece doesn’t need the German/‘Danish’ royals back.

Bring back the French and Italian monarchies. The Italian royal family just left in 1946.

Greece chose them in the first place. So I guess they were free to un-choose them. They initially thought of Prince Alfred of Great Britain, Victoria and Albert's second son, but had to go with a Glücksburg.

Romania, Serbia, Albania, and Montenegro basically have monarchies without being official monarchies. The royal families have been invited back to the countries, live in the palaces, and have some official roles. They’re monarchies except in name. Montenegro in particular, the crown prince is allowed to use the royal standard and is allowed to officially represent Montenegro at state events. If any of them tip back into official monarchies, it will be Montenegro.

If any of the current European monarchies topple, it will be Spain. Possibly Belgium. The others are safe.

Not Belgium: the Belgians have the greatest of difficulty governing their own country and are only too pleased to have a 'captive' royal family to supply heads of state.

oh that’s true R203, I forgot about the time there was no government for a long time and King Albert was taking on a bigger role.

Yes R204. For about six months the king, his private secretary and the civil service ran the country without a government.

maybe that’s why Albert retired/abdicated. That was a few wild years of long periods without governments, then resignations and whatnot. He must have been stressed and exhausted at all the times he had to be in meetings about it. None of his cousins have that kind of royal responsibility

R199 And Greece does not need a Miller sister and her anorectic daughters.

Greece needs some pomp and pageantry.

Greece is broke and the Germans are not going to pay for Greek pomp and pageantry.

[quote] JC is blazing the trail soon to be taken by Felipe if the anti-monarchists have their way.

They will not have their way. Don't be melodramatic.

JC is in terrible trouble, but he will be forgiven in the end because he resisted the attempted coup and saved the country from more decades of fascism.

Felipe is popular, as are his girls. Unless it can be proved he had a hand in his father's corrupt dealings, he will be safe. JC was smart to abdicate when he did. No one is going to kick out Felipe and his girls for what Felipe's father did.

Is the king still called His Most Catholic Majesty?

Long live King Felipe.

This is Markle's fault. She shined a light on the mystery of monarchy. Now everyone is under scrutiny.

[quote]And Greece does not need a Miller sister and her anorectic daughters.

Agreed, can't see the Greeks taking to snobby, free-spending Marie-Chantal or her hubby Pavlos either. In terms of any restoration, that ship has sailed.

But younger brother Nikolaos is an intriguing possibility, should a scenario evolve where Greece flirts with the monarchy again. For one thing, he actually speaks fluent Greek and has lived in the country for several years, living relatively modestly and doing a lot of lowkey charity work. His wife is relatively lowkey as well, and would be more appropriate than M-C.

Any agreement to restore the monarchy would likely hinge on choosing Nik over Pavlos, imo, if it came to that.

[quote] They're banned from Greece [R196] so I assume that's a backdrop behind them, somewhere in Surrey England where they dwell in exile.

They are no longer banned from Greece and he and Queen Anne-Marie live there for most of the year since 2014. The ban was lifted at the insistence of the European Union's human rights tribunal. The former King and his wife may live in Greece, but they are still denied Greek citizenship and still hold Danish passports courtesy of Queen Anne-Marie's sister, Queen Margrethe of Denmark. The Greek government has no official recognition of the former King as a commoner and foreign resident.

For 40 years, Constantine and Anne-Marie lived in Hampstead Garden suburb, just north of Central London, and that house was sold before the move back to Greece. His second son and his wife also live in Greece. His eldest son Crown Prince Pavlos and his Miller wife split their time between London and New York. His eldest daughter lives in Spain. His youngest son spends time in Greece and Britain. His youngest daughter is an actress in Los Angeles.

[quote]Any agreement to restore the monarchy would likely hinge on choosing Nik over Pavlos, imo, if it came to that.

R214. Prince Nikolaos and Princess Tatiana couple married in the Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas, Spetses, Greece on 25 August 2010. After 10 years of marriage, they have no children (he's 50; she's 39) however, if they assumed the throne and died without an heir, the crown would revert back to Crown Prince Pavlos' family and his eldest son, Prince Constantine Alexios.

But monarchy doesn't work that way. The crown wouldn't go to Nikoloas. His older brother, Pavlos, is the Crown Prince and heir to the throne. Pavlos is alive and well and actually a very smart, thoughtful man who cares a great deal about Greece and his place in the line of succession.

r216 = Marie-Chantal, Crown Princess of Greece, Princess of Denmark

[quote] European Union's human rights tribunal

What are you talking about R215/R216?

It sounds like nobody likes them and true "rich people" think they're doofuses, easily bought and, well, they know the rest. Bought up and put up, yes?

I saw Prince Pavlos being interviewed on BBC. He didn’t seem to be intelligent at all...the way he responded to the interviewer’s questions I thought that he was Beyoncé.

More to the point, where is the kickback king?

Juan-Carlos, donde esta?

"His youngest daughter is an actress in Los Angeles."

Greece was lucky to be spared this. Too bad the US has to deal with the Miller offspring and their nonsense.

R124 I think "considerably taller" is an overstatement. Spain's average height for male adults is in line with most of the Mediterranean, so around 175-177 cm (~5'9"). Even if you take into account birth cohorts, males born after the 80s are still around that height.

This is what Spain thinks of JC. He is asking that payments be made to him via Bizum, a phone to phone app for sending money.

[quote]But monarchy doesn't work that way. The crown wouldn't go to Nikoloas. His older brother, Pavlos, is the Crown Prince and heir to the throne. Pavlos is alive and well and actually a very smart, thoughtful man who cares a great deal about Greece and his place in the line of succession.

Monarchy may work that way in other nations, but you need to read up on your history of modern Greece. The path of that monarchy has hardly been typical or passed down in a steady line. It is not out of realm at all that jet-setting Pavlos (and by extension, his disliked American socialite wife, who's never had an interest in Greece) would be passed over in a potentially reinstated Greek monarchy. Certainly, they would not have their father Constantine back as King.

To begin with, in the 1800s monarchs were chosen by either foreign conferences (see the London Conference of 1832) or multiple referendums; in the latter the throne was offered up to multiple candidates until finally one of the last on the list (William of Denmark) accepted, becoming George I. Greece has a history of 'choosing' its kings, rather than using the standard method of hereditary inheritance favored by more stable nations.

Add to that the instability of that office in the past 100 years, with dozens of coups, govt turnovers and monarchial exiles. No fewer than three of Constantine I's sons ruled as King, with the throne jumping around depending on who alive/available or seen as appropriate by the whims of the standing government. Between 1924 and 1935 alone there were 23 govt changes, a dictatorship, and 13 coups.

Indeed George II is said to have remarked "the most important tool for a King of Greece is a suitcase."

The Miller woman is equally British as she is American. Don't lay the blame for her on the US.

The "Miller woman" is American, via her father, and Ecuadorean via her mother. She was born in London, where her father worked, but raised in Hong Kong and NYC, and educated in Switzerland and later attended NYU.

Miller's father, Robert "the duty-free king" Miller was born and raised in middle class suburban Boston and attended Cornell before making his meteoric, self-made rise in wealth. HIs mother was born and raised in Canada, but that's about as ethnically/culturally close to the UK as he gets. He did later in life become a UK citizen due to his business dealings, and does own property in the UK, but he is as American as one gets.

That Miller woman's grandmother was a governess. Oh dear.

The poster up thread who believes the Saudis are a legitimate Royal family with lineage is retarded.

So, still no word on JC’s hideaway?

JC resides in heaven where he sitteth at the right hand of his father god the almighty.

interesting that the Spanish royals are SO blonde as children, like little Danes. Even Juan Carlos, mostly Spaniard and Italian, was a very bright blonde as a child, no doubt from his paternal grandmother Queen Ena. But yet it turned dark, as did the blonde hair of all his children. I don’t think Felipe’s two rather vacant looking blonde daughters will stay blonde either.

Oh I am pretty sure those blonde girls will stay blonde into their 80's. They may not be living in Spain when they are older (they may join gran papi in exile) but they will be blonde.

[quote] Is the king still called His Most Catholic Majesty?

Probably not. That's reserved for the reigning sovereign and spouse. J-C and Sophia are likely "just" Their Majesties since he abdicated. J-C's grandmother, Queen Ena used Her Majesty in her exile. The British court also referred to Queen Ena as Her Majesty after 1930. BTW, Ena was a granddaughter of Queen Victoria. She was born Her Highness Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg and raised as a British princess.

So Letizia gets to have an abortion and be divorced and still be titled as Most Catholic Majesty?

Her Most Catholic Majesty

Juan Carlos has been heard singing this in his exile in Canada.

(Bizum is an method for transferring funds from one bank account to another, used to pay friends, purchase goods or services, etc.)

R186, do you actually believe that European monarchs today have any political power? They are all kings or queens in name only. That's what a constitutional monarchy is.

R240, then what does a royal in a CM do, exactly?

they sign legislation into law, they appoint the government ministers (on advise of the government), they usually deliver the legislative agenda for the year to the people in a speech, they serve as a figure of national unity, above politics. They’re usually the head of state, so visits from other countries pass through them for the social aspects of the visit such as a banquet and palace tours. The can be the fountain of honors, depending on the country, and with government advise (and sometimes without) they can bestow honors. Sometimes they can even dissolve the government and ask for creation of a new one, and in the case of Belgium as we discussed above sometimes they SERVE as the actual executive until a government is in place. They’re useful. Even in a country like Sweden where the monarchy has no power whatsoever, they can be useful to cut ribbons to inaugurate important projects and for their patronage of charities.

R241, the royals do everything outlined in R242. But I think that in doing these things they are called upon to represent the very best in the history and traditions of their country. Elizabeth represents Britain at its best. Whether she is or not is another matter. But that's the role she fills.

I was going to school in the UK when the Pan Am plane was bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland. By the time the 7 a.m. news casts were airing, members of the royal family were in Lockerbie, surveying the damage, meeting people from Lockerbie who were underneath the damned thing as it fell from the sky. If I recall correctly, it was Charles and Andrew who were there. It was very traumatic for the nation, but especially so for the residents of Lockerbie. The presence of the members of the royal family acknowledged the severity of the tragedy. It validated the trauma the people of Lockerbie were feeling. As they comforted the people they met, they represented the nation being there to assist. That's when I got it. That's when I got the value of the monarchy. And as the story unfolded over months, they continued to return to Lockerbie.

Conversely, a few months later, there was a terrible train wreck at Clapham Junction, during the morning commute into London. Many were killed and hospitalized. In a mammoth breach of protocol, Maggie Thatcher, the head of government, not the head of state, took it upon herself to visit survivors in hospital. And she was pilloried in the press for it. The constitutional monarchy, if it did nothing else, keeps the politicians in the political arena, and keeps them from preening and over-reaching and taking on matters of state.

We should be free to hate and denounce and oppose the politicians who are governing without holding back out of some phony 'respect for the office' that they hold. They are put there by us to serve us. Keep it that way. There is simply NO WAY that Donald and Melania Trump represent the best that is the USA. And they should not be allowed to strut in front of the press and pretend that they do. In the US, we would do well to split that office of the Presidency. We would benefit greatly by having a head of government and a separate person serving as the head of state.

[quote] do you actually believe that European monarchs today have any political power?

Power, no. Influence, yes. Beyond their rhetoric, no politician even in a constitutional monarchy wants to risk pissing off the sovereign. Over the years some politicians have tried stepping on the toes of Lilibet of Britain and Daisy of Denmark and the queens had their own little ways of stomping back. As part of their training, beginning at an early age, monarchs-in-waiting learn how to be a cunt while remaining apolitical and within their constitutional roles.

[quote]Queen Beatrix (when she was still queen) encountered a similar situation when an official informed her that a government minister wanted to attend an official function with his same-sex partner. Beatrix smiled and shrugged her shoulders and asked what the problem was

Beatrix surrounded herself with high-powered gays, including Felix Rhodius, a member of her "cabinet." Her own husband, Claus, had some persistent gay rumors over the years, and was apparently spotted in a gay bar in New York City back in 1982 with his close friend Frits Salomonson, who was also the personal legal counsel to Beatrix. There were some wild rumors at the time that the CIA was blackmailing the Dutch government with footage of the prince at a gay party (again accompanied by Salomonson). The late (gay) journalist Willem Oltmans loved to gossip about this kind of thing.

maybe that’s why Claus had his nervous breakdown

Maenwyle gays where is the old king of Spain?

Weren’t there rumors about the late Prince Henrik of Denmark, Queen Margrethe’s husband? She pretty much looked the other way.

And Luxembourg’s Prince Guillaume, Hereditary Grand Duke...his wife finally had a baby. He was seen cruising the altar boys at his wedding...allegedly

First Juan Carlos was exiled in the Dominican Republic, now he is rumored to be in Abu Dhabi. If true, that's going to be mighty expensive.

Why expensive? Royalty in exile hardly spend anything unless they have to as people are so desperate to have them as guests, all expenses paid. They only spend if they have to buy a plane ticket, having failed to secure one free from the airline in first class, and an air ticket is only required if the current host is not being welcoming enough.

Royalty, even of different religions, are like family. I’m sure the royal family in Abu Dhabi are hosting the former king

Abu Dhabi is the new Switzerland - happy to host exiled royalty and despots.

I wonder if the King is having a dry stay with the Abu Dhabi royalty. I hope JC likes sweetened tea and falconry.

I didn't know Switzerland hosted exiled royalty. Details R253, please, if you can.

Well his daughter Cristina and her kids have been living 'in exile' in Switzerland for the past few years, since the corruption charges.

[quote] And Luxembourg’s Prince Guillaume, Hereditary Grand Duke...his wife finally had a baby

Well, that turkey baster certainly took its sweet time.

Does the baby look like a little Cuban?

R256 what has your post got to do with the old king of Spain?

R256 Well, Guillaume married Countess Stéphanie Marie Claudine Christine de Lannoy , the daughter of Count Philippe de Lannoy and Alix della Faille de Leverghem, so the Cuban genes have been quite weakened.

I have no idea who these people are. Are they parasites and grifters? I feel a surge of Leninism in my old bones.

[quote] First Juan Carlos was exiled in the Dominican Republic, now he is rumored to be in Abu Dhabi. If true, that's going to be mighty expensive.

What's the point of accepted hundred million dollar bribes if you don't spend it?

R257 he was responding to an earlier post about the Luxembourg royal family.

I’m sure deep within the royal palace compounds of the UAE anything goes, and alcohol and sexy western hookers flow freely.

Where is he now?

A pap shot of the King arriving in Abu Dhabi.

Felipe should remove the style “your majesty” from the former king, it’s not like Juan Carlos was an anointed (like Queen Elizabeth) or consecrated (like King Harold) monarch. He took a constitutional oath only, meaningless to God. Felipe should draw up papers to revert Juan Carlos to an HRH, and make him use prince, duke, or count.

did they find him yet? they need to joan arc him butt good.

R265 I believe JC still has a lot of other titles to choose from.

R266 - see R264

Question for the Spanish DLers here: Do you have the feeling that Spain has finally come to terms with its past, especially the France regime and its victims? And the role of the Catholic Church?

When I was there, I felt like it was taboo to talk about it, older people did not like that topic.

did Franco deport the Spanish Jews to appease Hitler?

R269....People are still openly pro Franco, pro dictator. The Church and the Army are clearly on Franco's side and the VOX is the new Fascist party (and not too far you have got the PP)

r270. There were not too many (openly) Jews in Spain in the '30s. However, all Republicans fleeing Spain who were caught in France were sent to concentration Camps. According to the website linked below, at least, 15000.

[quote]People are still openly pro Franco, pro dictator. The Church and the Army are clearly on Franco's side and the VOX is the new Fascist party (and not too far you have got the PP)

Yes, the coronavirus has brought out the fachas with their right-leaning Spanish flags (not the Spanish Republican flags), as in this apartment building with Spanish flags on 50 of its 55 balconies (it is in a super facha neighborhood, and architecturally ugly, too.)

Now where is the king-emeritus?

The king emeritus is in Abu Dhabi....or so they say. There were pics. I am not sure if you are following David Simon (The Wire) on twitter but Pablo Iglesias (Podemos, left) wrote something about one of his shows and Simon got caught in the middle of Pro-Franco Spaniards and leftist, Highly entertaining.

What, R274, no one rose to the schoolboy insult of "Me cago en la boca de tus familiares muertos"?

So the Catalans were right after all.

Always go with the cats.

The Catalan were right about what, R276? They have a lot of opinions on a lot of subjects, oh, and they invented everything, or so they will tell you

Aren't the secessionist leaders in jail by now?

Queen Sofia is an ugly homophobic cuntrag.

The gorgeous current King is actually a queen.

Does anyone think the Spanish monarchy will last long enough to see Princess Leonor become Queen?

I feel bad for King Felipe and Queen Letizia, because they actually seem to be the hardest working royals in Europe.

Queen Letizia often has a vacant look, with no light in her eyes. I wonder if she smokes weed or takes benzos.

I think they will be okay, although it will help if Juan Carlos dies soon. But they were smart in distancing themselves as much as possible from him before all this came out and making him leave the country.

It will help them that they work hard; that Juan Carlos and the Infanta Corruptia are out of the country for good; and, quite honestly, that the current Princess of the Asturias, Leonor, is so sweet and beautiful. Honestly, who would want to turn this lovely little girl out of the palace? Sadly this means she basically has to be absolutely perfect until she takes the throne--no acting out for her during adolescence!--but so far she's met that standard.

They were out working nearly a week ago. Good form.

The European royals do a really good job at integrating their children into their public works. I wonder if Prince George will be at a disadvantage

Tiny Tim is one of the Spanish royal family?

[quote] The European royals do a really good job at integrating their children into their public works. I wonder if Prince George will be at a disadvantage

The two daughters of Felipe and Letizia are teenagers.

George is only seven.

Also: Letizia and Sofia are the daughters of a sitting monarch.

George is currently only the great-grandson of one.

*Sorry, I meant "Leonor and Sofia," not "Letizia and Sofia."

R286 Right, but I remember Catharina Amalia and Christian having a more public presence at that age. Estelle of Sweden, who is 8, and her brother, Oscar, who is 4, accompany their mother to plenty of events.

R27 I agree. I mistakenly ff’d you, instead of ww on my phone.

^^^R227, not 27

R290/R291, you're just fucking up all over the place today aren't you?

^^^ Please disregard. My numbers are all screwed up.

George won’t be at any disadvantage. He’s British royalty, that puts him ahead of all Continental royals. Without even trying, even if he’s a total boor, he’ll be in an aspirational position.

It’s unfair, considering the other royals of the world are more interesting, but that’s the way it always has been. Blame it on the legacy of the empire, I guess.