Marlene Dietrich—overrated or underrated actress?

She was limited, but....she was a Star. She was magical on screen and on stage. Granted the magic was carefully manufactured and total artifice, but she just really knew how to work it.

She was more of a personality than a good actress. And her persona was so camp. Same with Garbo. To me anyway. Never got the allure of either one. Though Garbo was better at expressing real emotions onscreen. Dietrich was all about image, shadows and lighting. Dietrich just posed a lot.

Damn you, r2!!!

I think she's often great fun to watch, especially when things are way over the top. It's her singing I find overrated: she was no Greta Keller.

There was usually a mystery about her...

She was a fine comedian, which can be seen in "The Lady Is Willing." She was a fine dramatic actress, which can be seen all the way back in "The Blue Angel," and with a more Hollywood example (capable of being misread in its unevenness), "Shanghai Express."

Blaming an actress because she was fortunate to have brilliant directors and cinematography (von Sternberg was responsible for the "look" that people cite), because she looked amazing, and because she controlled her own presentation despite and after von Sternberg's work with her. "Blonde Venus" and "Morocco" remain enjoyable, whatever their camp value or how it overwhelms the movies (and even "Destry.")

But claiming she was not a good actress is absurd. Being limited is not being bad. Christ, these quarter-a-thread OPs who exist just to stimulate traffic or trolley are shits.

Exactly, r6. She knew her limitations and stayed in her own lane.

I thought she was great in Witness for the Prosecution and great fun in Touch of Evil.

Wayyyyyyyyy overrated as an actress, but the successful product of incredible marketing and image-setting.

R4 Thank you for remembering Greta Keller.

“Dietrich was all about image, shadows and lighting. Dietrich just posed a lot“

Marlene Dietrich was quoted saying: “The relationship between the make-up man and the film actor is that of accomplices in crime.”

"Darling, the legs aren't so beautiful, I just know what to do with them."

She's great in JUDGEMENT AT NUREMBERG (61). She said she was playing her mother.

I like her better than Garbo, her ostensible rival in the early 30s.

She friggin' ripped off Bjork!

R13. I agree—she certainly deserved a nomination for that—more moving than Tracy and less hammy than Schell. A kind of Hecuba figure.

From Marlene Dietrich's ABC (which I used to have a copy of):

*

Greenland ("Should be called Iceland. See ICELAND.")

Iceland ("Should be called Greenland. See GREENLAND.")

"She possesses the rarest of civilized virtues, irony."

R17 What are you really trying to say Kenneth? Are you jealous that Dietrich wanted your friend, John Osborne, instead of you?

I saw her in 1972. Magical. Granted it was all illusion and artifice, but isn't that what old-school Hollywood glamour was? She embodied it. My friend noticed that Ryan and Peter Bogdanovich were being seated so we went over and I got Ryan to sign my program. She didn't sign after the show, instead rushing into the limo accompanied by Ryan and Peter.

Fun fact: I would be able to change my last name to Dietrich!

Then I could go abroad to America and whenever someone asked me how to spell my last name, I would just say: "Just like Marlene's!"

She was approving of domestic abuse...

I'm surprised in her later career, people paid to come and hear her sing.

R22 She didn't really sing as much as spoke to music.

She saw what the boys in the back room will have.

Was she more into women or men?

Her work in Judgement At Nuremberg is kind of brilliant actually. It is a nuanced, brave, and well thought out performance that still resonates today. The last scene closeup of her face, devoid of all expression as the phone rings and rings, is haunting and iconic for what it says about the “ good German” of that time. In these Trumpian times, I think of it often.

By that later stage in her career, Dietrich had developed into a very fine actress indeed.

She was excellent in Nurmemberg, Witness For the Prosecustion and Hitchcock's Stage Fright.

[R13, R15]I posted my thoughts before I read the thread, so yes, I agree lol!

Her daughter's book is one of the best biographies I've ever read. It's so rich in detail.

She was lazy...

I don't get what the big deal is about Garbo. Dietrich was much funnier, especially that ending to Touch of Evil.

R29 It really is.

And unlike Mommie Dearest, Maria's book sort of appreciates the whole person.

Gary was such a cutie...

Gary was such a cutie...

She vas a wamp and a hawidan.

Wanna kiss me, ducky?

I like her but she was no Garbo.

I can't think of anyone who was, r37.

R31 We shouldn't compare Garbo and Dietrich. Both had a decade at the top and then Garbo discreetly retired.

Dietrich changed her career, did 'comedy' roles and semi-ghoulish cabaret appearances. She went on and on and on and lost her dignity in her last two decades.

Dietrich kept working because she needed the money. She supported her whole family. Garbo invested well during her Hollywood years and became quite wealthy, and also didn't have any family or husbands to support so she didn't need to work.

CINNAMON goes DIETRICH!

Mmmmm, I'm not sure anyone really considered her an actress, per se... I mean, "acting" isn't what comes to mind when you think of her.

How about...a presence?

Certainly. And she wore clothes amazingly well.

I love it when her daughter Maria Riva talks about her.

THe von Sternberg movies were early in her career and were fetishistic art movies. She did what was required, fantastically. You can't judge her range based on those movies. Sheesh, I'm really surprised this must be explained to you.

Stage Fright

More Stage Fright

And anyway, she is quite good in Devil is a Woman and Blonde Venus. There is range within those movies.

She always plays a woman who can't pronounce her "R"s.

^ At least she wasn't cwoss-eyed like Norma Sheawer.

And *both* her sides were good, unlike...

^ Both equally as noseless.

As noseless as Jane Wyman.

Von Sternberg embalmed her in glamour - there is an actress underneath. When she is asked to stretch - for example her disguised scene in "Witness for the Prosecution", she is brilliant.

Funny story: lesbian I knew saw Dietrich's one-woman show on Broadway at the Lunt-Fontanne and waited at the stage door. She caught Dietrich's eye and Marlene gave her her card with her private number on it. Kitty, the lesbian, called Marlene the next morning waking her up. Dietrich had no recollection who this fan was and hung up on her.

Was she more into women?

Dietrich wasn't so much an actress as an indomitable presence. When she was on screen, there was nothing else of interest. Even as consummate an actor as Charles Laughton was a dim bulb beside her megawatt aura.