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Suspiria

I’m watching Suspiria by Luca Guadagnino. Tilda Swnton is a great witch. Weird movie, and good.

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by Anonymousreply 198September 21, 2021 1:22 PM

Watch the original one too OP.

by Anonymousreply 1August 1, 2020 11:06 PM

The original is hard to find. I have only seen it available as DVDs for purchase. I would like to see it.

by Anonymousreply 2August 1, 2020 11:08 PM

It's widely available on streaming platforms.

by Anonymousreply 3August 1, 2020 11:11 PM

tripe

good looking tripe, but still tripe nonetheless.

by Anonymousreply 4August 1, 2020 11:23 PM

The remake is actually a whole different Movie. Same setting and premise but a whole different screenplay.

It’s better than the 1977 movie in my opinion. Very strange and disturbing.

by Anonymousreply 5August 2, 2020 12:50 AM

This version bombed at the box office. I like the original movie better (from 1977 I think) with Dark Shadows star Joan Bennet.

by Anonymousreply 6August 2, 2020 1:20 AM

Suspiria 1977 with bullish woman in the middle.

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by Anonymousreply 7August 2, 2020 1:25 AM

Shushpiria! I shaw the original back in sheventy-sheven. Shcary!

by Anonymousreply 8August 2, 2020 1:35 AM

R6 didn’t see the 2018 movie. Old dumbass bitch.

by Anonymousreply 9August 2, 2020 1:39 AM

I liked it. Dakota Johnson carried it very well, she's a surprisingly good actress.

It would be fun to see more remakes of Giallo films.

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by Anonymousreply 10August 2, 2020 1:40 AM

I loved it and watched it twice. Disturbing fun with some really good performances. I love the original too but they have little to do with each other plot wise.

by Anonymousreply 11August 2, 2020 1:43 AM

First of all: goddamn I hate Box Office Mojo these days, they totally ruined it.

I liked Suspiria and I was a bit surprised to find out it really did flop, and bad. The budget was $20M and worldwide B.O. only $7.7M. That $20M most probably is without P&A although I suspect that number isn't very high. Still, it's basically a European art house film, a 70s pastiche, so no wonder people didn't want to see it. You can't even describe it being truly horror.

by Anonymousreply 12August 2, 2020 1:43 AM

Luca Guadagnino talking about the film

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by Anonymousreply 13August 2, 2020 1:44 AM

The Luca version was great. I thought Dakota was absolutely fantastic in this role. The Tilda multiple roles really annoyed me. She's not as great as she thinks she is. It made a great film into something bordering on boring camp for the sake of camp. The film would've been a 10/10 if they had a real old geezer playing the old man role (maybe some Oscar winner in his 90s) and not Tilda doing a bad impersonation.

I think Argento is overrated, though I've seen most of his pictures. Joan Bennet was great in Suspiria, the 70s version, but everything else fell flat aside from the interesting sets. Sergio Martino is the best giallo director but strangely not as popular at this point in time. See "The Strange Vice of Mrs. Wardh" for interesting giallo.

by Anonymousreply 14August 2, 2020 1:45 AM

It’s a horror film, you reject r7. A gory one too.

by Anonymousreply 15August 2, 2020 1:46 AM

An incredible pile of shit.

by Anonymousreply 16August 2, 2020 1:47 AM

I learned a new word from it that I had to google; "(Double) Caposhi".

[quote]Popular 70s term meaning "cool". pronounced kuh-pa-she.

by Anonymousreply 17August 2, 2020 1:48 AM
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by Anonymousreply 18August 2, 2020 1:49 AM

You never saw it. Go back to bed grandpa!

by Anonymousreply 19August 2, 2020 1:49 AM

Old dumbass bitch tries to chime in on a movie it hasn’t seen.

by Anonymousreply 20August 2, 2020 1:51 AM

R2, here you go. The original is available for free via Tubi TV

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by Anonymousreply 21August 2, 2020 1:51 AM

Someone also shared it on Youtube

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by Anonymousreply 22August 2, 2020 1:53 AM

[quote]I liked Suspiria and I was a bit surprised to find out it really did flop, and bad.

Not surprising when you remember that it was the director's follow-up to Call Me By Your Name. The new audience he'd gained wasn't interested, and Giallo has always been a cult thing anyway.

by Anonymousreply 23August 2, 2020 1:54 AM

I liked the film and I think it will sadly be Luca Guadagnino's last art-y film as he's signed on to do yet another "Scarface" remake and directing a film with a script written by Seth Rogen. It was a flop at the box office, but I think there should be an asterisk next to it because it was distributed by Amazon Studios so it was released in the theaters before being released on Amazon Prime so I'm sure many felt they'd rather wait to see it with their subscription versus seeing it in limited release. Netflix doesn't release their box office numbers for their theatrical releases so they avoid this type of scrutiny. I think the only real box office success Netflix had was for "The Irishman" because each time I wanted to see it at the Egyptian in L.A, it was sold out.

by Anonymousreply 24August 2, 2020 1:54 AM

The bullish woman in R7 is the once stunning Alida Valli.

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by Anonymousreply 25August 2, 2020 1:56 AM

The Perfume of the Lady in Black is one of my favorite Giallo films, it's very unusual and claustrophobic. I think it would work really well as a remake in a modern setting. Most of Argento's films are overrated, Suspiria included.

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by Anonymousreply 26August 2, 2020 2:07 AM

Throwback to Asia Argento calling Luca a cunt:

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by Anonymousreply 27August 2, 2020 2:10 AM

Oh that reminds me to resume watching.

by Anonymousreply 28August 2, 2020 2:28 AM

I preferred the original, primarily because I loved the stylishness of the art nouveau sets and the oddness by having all of the actors' voices dubbed (except the main woman) because their German accents were so thick.

by Anonymousreply 29August 2, 2020 2:34 AM

Tilda

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by Anonymousreply 30August 2, 2020 12:09 PM

The 2 movies are very different. I enjoyed both actually.

by Anonymousreply 31August 2, 2020 12:18 PM

Hated the new one with the bloated run time and unnecessary holocaust plot-line with old tilda.

by Anonymousreply 32August 2, 2020 12:33 PM

People have been saying Argento is overrated since he first became mega-famous in Europe in the 70's. The debate continues! I think his first eight films (most people agree) are stylish masterpieces of bold weirdness, that have influenced a few generations of filmmakers in their own way. Most of his films after 1980, not so much. He is one of the most famous giallo directors, so discovery of his films often leads to a "gateway" of discovering the genre had many star directors, some better than Argento in many ways, but countless films and lesser-know directors (and sub-genres). The giallo genre is massive and all over the place. SO MANY giallo films were made in the 1960/70's and 80's. It's difficult to pick a "best."

R29 Actually, most of the actors were Italian. And this is the way most (but not every one) Italian films and television were shot back then. Shoot with no sound, then all sound and dialogue dubbed in later. It was kind of an industry standard.

by Anonymousreply 33August 2, 2020 12:57 PM

R33 -

[quote]Rudolf Schündler, the West German actor who played the role of Professor Milius, could not speak any English or Italian, so in the scene where he talks with Jessica Harper (Suzy) about witches, she could not understand him as he was speaking in German. Harper later quoted that she tried to keep a straight face as not to flub her lines.

[quote]In an interview, Jessica Harper said that many of the actors spoke different languages during shooting, mostly Italian and German, and it would make communicating difficult at times. However, since the film would be dubbed into English for American release, it was deemed not to be an issue during filming.

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by Anonymousreply 34August 3, 2020 7:13 AM

R34 Interesting!

by Anonymousreply 35August 3, 2020 12:26 PM

Mia goth as the friend was incredible honestly blew me away. Could not stand the that no-eyebrow bitch before haha

by Anonymousreply 36August 3, 2020 1:20 PM

This movie summons the Devil!

by Anonymousreply 37August 3, 2020 1:27 PM

Chloë Grace Moretz as a dancer at that school was a bit unconvincing, she's pretty but too stocky and short.

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by Anonymousreply 38August 3, 2020 7:11 PM

Are those girls in OP's pic dressed in fucking macrame?

by Anonymousreply 39August 3, 2020 7:14 PM

In case any of you missed it, Jessica Harper ("Susie" from the original) has a cameo in the 2018 remake.

by Anonymousreply 40August 3, 2020 7:34 PM

R24, true, it did have a very limited run in theaters. The closest screening near me was two hours away. None of my friends would be interested in joining me for a movie like this, especially considering it's run time, so I had to watch it at home instead.

by Anonymousreply 41August 3, 2020 7:37 PM
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by Anonymousreply 42August 3, 2020 11:29 PM

[quote]Mia goth as the friend was incredible honestly blew me away. Could not stand the that no-eyebrow bitch before haha

I always thought of her as nothing more than Shia LaBeouf's wife, but she was shockingly good in "Emma" starring Anya Taylor Joy.

by Anonymousreply 43August 3, 2020 11:34 PM

Could someone give a synopsis? I tried watching the original but couldn't get past the first 15 minutes. Should I try again?

by Anonymousreply 44August 3, 2020 11:35 PM

R44 go jump in the toilet!

by Anonymousreply 45August 3, 2020 11:43 PM

R44 [italic]Young American dancer Susie Bannion arrives in 1970s Berlin to audition for the world-renowned Helena Markos Dance Co. When she vaults to the role of lead dancer, the woman she replaces breaks down and accuses the company's female directors of witchcraft. Meanwhile, an inquisitive psychotherapist and a member of the troupe uncover dark and sinister secrets as they probe the depths of the studio's hidden underground chambers.[/italic]

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by Anonymousreply 46August 3, 2020 11:54 PM

R34 Italian movies and television were almost always dubbed back then. The industry standard was to shoot without sound, then dub everything later. Even if all the actors were speaking Italian.

by Anonymousreply 47August 5, 2020 2:41 AM

R47, see r34

by Anonymousreply 48August 5, 2020 5:03 AM

I think the original Suspiria is very overrated--Inferno, Tenebre, Phenomena and Opera are all better. It wasn't the slightest bit scary. I will give the remake a try, thanks OP.

by Anonymousreply 49August 5, 2020 5:18 AM

As a hardcore Argento fan going way back I feel this remake shouldn't have happened. It did, and people enjoy it, so there's that. But I feel like it would have been a better idea for Luca Guadagnino to make a horror film about a girl's dance school that was an homage to Suspiria only, with a different title and maybe not so many similarities. The remake has its strong points to be sure! I wonder if it might not have been so overlong and complicated if it didn't feel obligated to re-create the original. Guadagnino is a good director with a striking style.

by Anonymousreply 50August 5, 2020 11:57 AM

I'm wondering what the intent is going forward. Remaking the other two films in the series?

* Spoiler Alert*

In the original, Elena Markos was Mater Suspiriorum. The big "twist" in this remake is that Suzy Bannion is actually Mater Suspiriorum all along. In Inferno, Mater Tenebrarum is the only one of the three mothers from the US. If they go through with two more films, are they shifting around where the three mothers are from?

by Anonymousreply 51August 6, 2020 10:19 PM

I just saw the remake yesterday--I think it is far better than the original. Maybe not a great movie, but at least a good one. There is more depth to this one, the performances are better, it's more disturbing, etc. It's really not a remake at all, it's a totally different movie. It's like a horror version of the Red Shoes combined with the original Suspiria. The dancing was very interesting, to say the least.

by Anonymousreply 52August 6, 2020 10:22 PM

R52 "Volk" was very much inspired by the controversial (Stravinsky) “Rite of Spring” ballet choreographed by Vaslav Nijinsky in 1913.

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by Anonymousreply 53August 6, 2020 10:38 PM
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by Anonymousreply 54August 6, 2020 10:38 PM

R53/R54, fascinating. The dancing is a big reason reminds me of The Red Shoes.

by Anonymousreply 55August 6, 2020 10:55 PM

The leftmost dancer in r54 picture is tranny, one of two tranny actors in this movie . Both of the she males are quite good in their roles.

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by Anonymousreply 56August 6, 2020 11:14 PM

[quote]I'm wondering what the intent is going forward. Remaking the other two films in the series?

You must have missed R12's post. Suspiria flopped badly. There is no further intent.

by Anonymousreply 57August 7, 2020 12:05 AM

R56 that was obvious from OP's photo.

by Anonymousreply 58August 7, 2020 1:25 AM

I love both films, for totally different reasons, they are totally different moods

by Anonymousreply 59August 7, 2020 10:22 PM

I was ready to go in to hate Luca's movie, but surprisingly I didn't. He could have totally excised the old Holocaust survivor storyline without the movie suffering at all. This and Midsommar did not need to be more than 2 hours long, they're fucking horror movies, not the Epic of Gilgamesh.

by Anonymousreply 60August 7, 2020 10:36 PM

The leftmost dancer in [R54] picture is tranny, one of two tranny actors in this movie . Both of the she males are quite good in their roles.

She was the one that broke down crying (was it because she might be a better dancer than Susie, which she knew would end badly?); anyway, I remember thinking she was rather mannish...

It was kind of weird, interesting movie & gave me a better opinion of Dakota Fanning who uses her blankness/blandness effectively in this movie...

by Anonymousreply 61August 7, 2020 11:47 PM

You mean Dakota Johnson lol. Just remembered she is the daughter of Melanie Griffith.

by Anonymousreply 62August 7, 2020 11:54 PM

The idea of Joan Bennett having sex with that little boy was as disturbing as any of the disturbing images.

I have no need to see any Suspiria again.

by Anonymousreply 63August 8, 2020 12:04 AM

[quote] The idea of Joan Bennett having sex with that little boy

I could have been asleep during the movie but I don't remember this at all.

by Anonymousreply 64August 8, 2020 12:07 AM

What was the deal with the Ohio flashbacks? Was Susie’s Mennonite upbringing important?

What did her mother know about her that others didn’t - “She’s my sin. She’s what I smeared on the world.”

by Anonymousreply 65August 8, 2020 12:12 AM

I love the original. The music score by Goblin, the use of colours, the set design, Jessica Harper.

When I first saw the remake, I was a bit confused. I don't know if I liked it. However, I often think about it and appreciate what Luca did with it. It's very different from the original.

**Spoiler**

Honestly, the "reveal" shouldn't have been that much of a surprise but somehow it worked. And liked how they integrated Jessica Harper into the film.

I'm not keen on a Scarface remake but who knows with Luca. He might pull it off.

by Anonymousreply 66August 8, 2020 12:24 AM

Oh, forgot to say, the remake reminds of the original combined with The Red Shoes but also Rosermary's Baby.

by Anonymousreply 67August 8, 2020 5:43 AM

It was kind of weird, interesting movie & gave me a better opinion of Dakota Fanning who uses her blankness/blandness effectively in this movie...

Sorry, I was drunk when I typed this...apparently even more drunk than I realized

What did her mother know about her that others didn’t - “She’s my sin. She’s what I smeared on the world.”

I wondered that too; I assume that she just meant she always knew she was evil (as so many Amish/Mennonite girls are...); why would a Mennonite girl dream about going to Berlin for something other than cheese; she's clearly EVIL

by Anonymousreply 68August 8, 2020 10:08 AM

I find the stuff about the Holocaust survivor and his missing wife in the remake incredibly moving and sad, I don't think it should be excised at all. It's integral to the whole point Luca Guadagnino is making, about how we're doomed to repeat the past if we ignore it, and how evil simply finds new forms across the decades

by Anonymousreply 69August 9, 2020 10:52 PM

I find the stuff about the Holocaust survivor and his missing wife in the remake incredibly moving and sad, I don't think it should be excised at all. It's integral to the whole point Luca Guadagnino is making, about how we're doomed to repeat the past if we ignore it, and how evil simply finds new forms across the decades

Agreed, the scene where she's telling him what really happened to his wife was very moving...

by Anonymousreply 70August 9, 2020 10:54 PM

The Holocaust stuff in the remake is directly tied to the film's Baader-Meinhof stuff -- the idea of the German parents who were former Nazis being confronted by their extremist children bombing them, becoming "terrorists" in the name of sweeping the old rotten state clean. It's exactly what Susie represents -- she comes in to this old coven where the top has gone rotten and cleans the slate, blowing all their heads off.

Dropping this conversation into our current time and place and political situation is hardly accidental!

by Anonymousreply 71August 10, 2020 7:06 PM

[italic]After what Luca Guadagnino calls “20 years of obliviousness,” the Nazi years were introduced into German school curricula in the early ’60s, just in time to enter the minds of the youths who would be on the front lines of the decade’s subsequent cultural shifts. In Germany, the late-’60s generation gap was even starker than in other Western countries, as young people born during or after the war woke up to the fact that their parents’ generation had perpetrated one of history’s greatest monstrosities. As Gudrun Ensslin, a founder of the Red Army Faction, put it after West Berlin police killed a young protester in 1967: “This is the generation of Auschwitz we’ve got against us. You can’t argue with people who made Auschwitz. They have weapons and we don’t. We must arm ourselves.”

The Red Army Faction If you’ve seen Suspiria, this was the group that Chloë Grace Moretz’s character supposedly fell in with. If you haven’t: The RAF was a Marxist terror group that emerged out of the more militant fringes of West German counterculture. (Though the RAF received assistance from the East German government, the regime generally considered them unruly dilettantes.) You might have also heard them called the Baader-Meinhof group, after two of their leaders: Andreas Baader, Ensslin’s boyfriend, who as David Clay Large drily notes in Berlin, “seems to have drifted into the radical protest movement less out of conviction than out of a desire for adventure and self-dramatization”; and Ulrike Meinhof, a former journalist who joined the gang after helping Baader escape from prison.

When we see the RAF in Suspiria, most of their original leaders are in jail. After a string of robberies and bombings, Baader, Ensslin, and Meinhof were all arrested in 1972, but a “second generation” carried on in their absence. With the exception of Meinhof, who had been found dead in her cell in 1976, the leaders were convicted on several murder and terrorism charges and sentenced to life in prison in 1977, kicking off a string of events now known as the “German Autumn.”

The ‘German Autumn’ The term refers to a series of kidnappings and other violence the second generation of the RAF undertook in order to force the release of Baader, Ensslin, and their compatriots. (You could argue that really began in the spring during the trial, when the group killed West German attorney general Siegfried Buback, a former Nazi, in a drive-by shooting.) The first kidnapping, of banker Jürgen Ponto, went wrong, as RAF members shot Ponto to death after an apparent struggle. Then, in September, the group abducted Hanns Martin Schleyer, president of the West German employers’ association and a former second-lieutenant in the SS. When the government refused to negotiate, the RAF raised the stakes.

On October 13, an allied Palestinian organization hijacked a Lufthansa flight and threatened to blow up the plane unless the prisoners were released. The plane ended up in Mogadishu, where the West German government pretended the accede to the demands, but instead sent a commando squad who stormed the plane, killed the hijackers, and freed the hostages. (News coverage of this pops up in Suspiria.) After the failure of the hijacking, Baader, Ensslin, and others were found dead in their cells, though, as with Meinhof’s death, the official ruling of suicide was challenged by RAF supporters. Schleyer was murdered the next day, his body left in a car trunk in France. We’re getting outside the purview of the movie, but the RAF would hang around until 1998. In all they were responsible for the deaths of more than 30 people, many of them innocent bystanders.[/italic]

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by Anonymousreply 72August 10, 2020 7:10 PM

Side note: if you're clueless about Baader Meinhof stuff as I was (good lord! It's always the Germans!), the Baader Meinhof Complex is a good movie - and the terrorists seem quaint compared to today's standards. They didn't behead one person!

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by Anonymousreply 73August 10, 2020 8:18 PM

R25 And in case anyone doesn't know Alida Valli (billed as Valli in Hollywood) she was the star of The Third Man, The Paradine Case, The White Tower, Walk Softly Stranger, Miracle Of The Bells ... and many Italian films including Visconti's Senso.

by Anonymousreply 74August 10, 2020 8:28 PM

R74, she was also in Antonioni's Il Grido (very good film!) and Eyes without a Face (another classic). She is pretty but those snake eyes really get to me. In Suspiria, they make her look like a cross between a butch Jessica Tandy and Alice from The Brady Bunch.

by Anonymousreply 75August 10, 2020 8:41 PM

R74, holy shit, I would have never been able to tell that was her in The Third Man. Wow, her looks changed dramatically between that movie and the late 50s.

by Anonymousreply 76August 10, 2020 8:43 PM

Was Thom Yorke's score well-received?

by Anonymousreply 77August 11, 2020 6:45 PM
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by Anonymousreply 78August 13, 2020 6:24 PM

R77, I liked it.

by Anonymousreply 79August 13, 2020 7:01 PM

R29, I think it was seeing Suspiria that made me realise just how much I like art nouveau. I just love the look of the original film, and how the way it was put together makes it come across like a fever dream; like Susie has entered a nightmare as soon as she exits those sliding doors at the airport.

Things like the dubbing and the fact that the original story was meant to have 12 year old girls, which later had to be changed to young adults, and yet the screenplay kept the younger dialogue and the set was still built to make the students look more juvenile... it all makes the movie come across very strange in a good way.

I want to watch the remake again because I saw it at the movies and liked it, but it was so long and it was late at night, plus I went with a friend who wasn't enjoying it so much.

I'm (very slowly) making my way through Argento's films. So far I've seen L'uccello dalle piume di cristallo, Profondo rosso, Suspiria, Inferno, Tenebre, Phenomena and Non ho sonno. I intend to find copies of Quattro mosche di velluto grigio, Il gatto a nove code and Opera and then I think I'll pack it in, given what I've heard of Argento's work after Opera, and having seen Non ho sonno, which I have to admit has an excellent opening 20 minutes but is all downhill from there. I find it frustrating he never did Mother of Tears back in the 80s, because it would be nice to be able to enjoy the trilogy, but the bits I've seen of the version he ended up doing looks so bad.

by Anonymousreply 80October 14, 2020 12:29 PM

[quote]I think I'll pack it in, given what I've heard of Argento's work after Opera, and having seen Non ho sonno

The Stendhal Syndrome is worth watching.

The Suspiria remake is not actually a horror movie. It's a moody set piece and pastiche to the 70s. The only really horrific scene features gore so ludicrous, fake and over the top that it seems to have been inserted ineptly and out of pace with the rest of the film on purpose to give horror lovers something to salivate over. I do love the Cold War styling and the lengths they went to recreate it, that huge cold set up on the mountain, and isolating the cast to really fuck with their minds. Tilda and Dakota are both great in it.

by Anonymousreply 81November 2, 2020 6:20 AM

Related to Suspiria, the unofficial meta sequel The Black Cat (also known as De Profundis and Demons 6) was released on Blu Ray in time for Halloween this year.

The Black Cat has a complicated history. Originally developed by Argento to be the third and final movie in the series, and based on Daria Nicolodi's original script, Dario was sick of directing supernatural thrillers by the late 80s so his associate Luigi Cozzi directed and re-wrote the project to add a sci-fi element, also gave a film-within-a film angle (this was before Wes Craven's New Nightmare and Scream).

Dismissed as trash and then forgotten, its reputation as a faithful homage to Suspiria and Inferno has grown over the years.

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by Anonymousreply 82November 2, 2020 6:38 AM

Thanks R81, I've heard similar things about The Stendahl Syndrome, but I would struggle with a movie watching a woman being raped again and again. Maybe when I get the nerve up.

I really enjoyed the Cold War atmosphere of the remake too. I rewatched it just the other night and probably enjoyed it even more than the first time. Things that had confused me a bit on first viewing were more understandable on this round through, probably because I remembered the main plot and could concentrate on other, more subtle things. In a way, it didn't even really need to be a remake of Suspiria, take away a few of the references here and there and he could've argued it was his own idea.

I like the mythology around the original film; Daria Nicolodi saying that it was based on a real life story of her grandmother's, who had fled a school after realising the teachers were practicing witchcraft. But I did come across an interview with Argento a little while ago where he admits they made that up.

by Anonymousreply 83November 2, 2020 7:42 AM

The assault scene of Asia Argento in Stendhal is really grotesque and bizarre, horrific but not sexually explicit by Hollywood standards. The pervert factor is turned up to 100 knowing her own father directed her in it. The harrowing stuff is what happens more subtley and psychologically to her character afterwards. Asia is truly lovely in Stendahl Syndrome.

The point trying to be made by Argento, is the double standards of art on the wall of the Uffizi Museum where the movie is set, is even more disturbing than what is depicted in the film, yet one is treasured and the other reviled (or something like that). It's hard to know as Argento shifts gears many times throughout the film. But it's his last artful film. The assaults in Stendhal Syndrome happen around the 20mins and 60 mins, so these can be skipped.

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by Anonymousreply 84November 2, 2020 9:25 AM

Thanks R84, that certainly sounds more interesting than I was expecting, and if I can skip those scenes, it may be worth checking it out. I have heard a few people say it's his last good movie, so I probably should see it sometime.

by Anonymousreply 85November 2, 2020 7:44 PM

Non ho sonno I think is actually his most successful giallo of his later period. It's not great and doesn't hold a candle to his first nine films (and the first 20 minutes steal the show), but there's something consistent and strong about the story and most importantly the style that holds the film together for me as a life-long Argento fan. It's like a tight, modern giallo that just works, like it was made for television or something. Can't quite put my finger on it.

by Anonymousreply 86November 3, 2020 10:22 AM

R86 Many hardcore Argento fans agree, and have noted this was the first of his later films that Asia wasn't spotlighted in.

by Anonymousreply 87November 3, 2020 10:24 AM

I agree, R86. And yes, it does have a television feel, that's a good description.

by Anonymousreply 88November 3, 2020 6:32 PM

I liked both a lot. However, in the second version I thought Tilda was overused and distracting. Dakota definitely won me over as a fan.

by Anonymousreply 89November 4, 2020 3:15 PM

They just put out a Blu-Ray of Sleepless recently and it was like watching a whole different movie. The Artisan DVD from 20 years ago was terrible. I really enjoyed it this time around and couldn't understand why so many people hated it. The biggest problem are the two leads who are really boring and the dubbing doesn't boost their personalities at all.

The new Suspiria is good, but could have benefitted by deleting the entire psychiatrist subplot. Every time Tilda showed up in her old man makeup, I wanted to go to sleep. There was nothing interesting about it. I wanted more with the women at the school.

by Anonymousreply 90November 4, 2020 3:20 PM

I have to thank R71/R72/R73 - this provides a lot of context to the remake and is very interesting. I wasn't able to get that completely myself, not knowing a lot about it, so I appreciate it!

by Anonymousreply 91November 8, 2020 8:28 AM

You weren't asleep, R64. That never happened.

by Anonymousreply 92November 12, 2020 9:50 AM

R92, it never was shown in the film, but it was implied that the coven was also sexual.

by Anonymousreply 93November 12, 2020 11:46 AM

R84 Question about Stendhal Syndrome. Is Uma Thurman dubbing Asia Argento in it? Google has no answer. It sounds like Uma, epecially the voice on Anna's answering machine. Asia does speak with an American accent fairly well, but that is not her voice in Stendhal.

On the old Suspiria thread, we found out Theresa Russell did a lot of the English dubbing for Argento's Seventies and Eighties films.

by Anonymousreply 94November 12, 2020 12:03 PM

R94 Yes, it's true about Theresa Russell in the english dub of TENEBRE (1982), but that was the only Argento film she did that for. I get the impression she did the gig for pay. She wasn't an established star at that point, not quite.

I'm almost certain that it is not Uma Thurman in STENDHAL SYNDROME (1996) Thurman was very famous at that point and wouldn't need to do it unless she wanted to. Interestingly, Bridget Fonda is a huge Argento fan and was in talks with him to star in STENDHAL initially before Asia, but it didn't work out.. There were lots of American film industry people that were very enthusiastic about Argento in the mid/later 90's (that's largely why the slightly awkward TRAUMA was filmed in the US). If you find anything out about Thurman in that voice role please let us know.

by Anonymousreply 95November 12, 2020 2:48 PM

Fonda was also supposed to play a role in Trauma, but had to drop out for some reason. Jennifer Jason Leigh was apparently circling Stendhal as well and I believe it. It seems like a role she'd take on and she'd have probably been wonderful. I've never thought much of Asia as an actress.

Stendhal was originally supposed to take place in the U.S. I think it was going to be somewhere like Arizona or New Mexico, but Argento changed his mind later on.

by Anonymousreply 96November 12, 2020 5:33 PM

R93, I've seen the film more times than I can count and nowhere did it even imply that Madame Blanc was having it off with the boy, Albert.

[quote]Jennifer Jason Leigh was apparently circling Stendhal as well and I believe it. It seems like a role she'd take on

I believe it too. That woman [italic]loves[/italic] to be raped on film. What is it with her and Jennifer Connelly?

by Anonymousreply 97November 12, 2020 6:46 PM

R95 - just ask Uma if you see her in New York. She's very friendly. Or ask Ethan and he will call and ask. They both love film even tho they're now divorced.

by Anonymousreply 98November 14, 2020 3:23 AM

The original Suspiria was one of the most hyped movies I've ever seen in my life. It was terrible. I laughed throughout most of it. And that awful cheesy synthesizer music.

WHY do so many people consider this tripe some kind of horror cult classic?!

btw, I don't need any film majors lecturing me. I was an art major in college, I took several film classes, please don't lecture me that I "don't understand the film".

by Anonymousreply 99November 14, 2020 3:36 AM

For me R99, I like it because of how it looks and the atmosphere. I enjoy the art nouveau set, the use of sound... and the parts that look dodgy by our standards (bad dubbing, acting etc) all add up to make a fun experience. It's hard to explain, it's like I totally accept criticisms about the plot or the acting etc, but it still all comes together to create this look of capturing a fever dream on camera that I really like about it.

The things that others consider a problem in it I find charming. I will say though, that I think I like Inferno more than Suspiria.

by Anonymousreply 100November 14, 2020 3:40 AM

R99 and R100 encapsulate why Argento's work achieved such enormous cult status over time. People kept arguing about his films, are they good or not? Do those who love his films "get it" and others don't, or do the people who think they're overrated "get it" and the fans don't? Add to that his first nine films, which are undeniably dazzling and weird even for weird. The whole thing just kept growing and growing, and still is.

by Anonymousreply 101November 14, 2020 1:02 PM

A reliable way to have people respect your opinion is to point out you went to school.

by Anonymousreply 102November 14, 2020 1:04 PM

Is that on IMDB or YouTube?

by Anonymousreply 103November 14, 2020 1:32 PM

For me, I love that Suspiria feels like a nightmare you'd have as a child. Nothing really makes crystal clear sense, but it has enough of a linear story to guide you along the way. Many of Argento's post-Suspiria films have this feeling in one way or another. He's really great about producing atmospheric and nightmarish visuals on screen, but he's never been very good at character development or realistic dialogue. Deep Red and Tenebrae are probably his most down to earth works in the sense that the stories make sense and dialogue sounds semi-human. If I'm introducing someone to his work, I usually start with one of those movies. They're a little easier to digest.

The cool part about Suspiria is that he'd written it with young children in mind, so all the dialogue was written with that in mind. He couldn't get funding for a film about witches brutally murdering children, so he cast it with 20-somethings but never changed the dialogue, so they're still behaving like children which gives it an extra weird layer.

by Anonymousreply 104November 14, 2020 6:36 PM

R104, that's why I love Inferno wayyyy more than Suspiria. It succeeds even more on that "dream" level. The way New York is portrayed, it's as if the entire city is desserted at night.

by Anonymousreply 105November 14, 2020 6:38 PM

Argento's style isn't for everyone. It's very broad and theatrical with over the top performances, tons of gore, and garish lighting/sets. Personally, I love it up until Opera and then he started trying to become more down to earth. Trauma has its moments and so does Sleepless, but maybe it's due to lack of budget or changing times, but a lot of his signature style is gone by that point. The most obvious is when you watch Mother of Tears which was the final installment of the Three Mothers trilogy that Suspiria and Inferno were a part of. It's missing everything that made those two previous films so interesting. There's zero style and everything looks like a flat TV movie. If I hadn't known any better, I'd have never thought it was made by Argento or that it was even a part of the trilogy.

by Anonymousreply 106November 14, 2020 6:45 PM

[quote]A reliable way to have people respect your opinion is to point out you went to school.

That wasn't my point, moron. My point was, I studied fine art, filmmaking, film critiquing, graphics, commercial art and many other areas of art. As a Creative Director, I continue to work in the area of graphics. Because of my studies, I have a different perspective than the average person seeing this film, then critiquing it. People into Argento, see his films as art, lots of his fans tend to work in creative fields.

DL posters, stay pressed and snarky. I expect nothing less.

R106, who stated Argento's films are over-the-top and garish, someone else said they look cheap, those are actually some of the reasons I didn't like Suspiria. I also didn't think the film was truly scary.

btw, I cannot stand torture porn films such as Hostel, gore doesn't always equal horror let alone suspense.

by Anonymousreply 107November 14, 2020 6:55 PM

One thing Argento's early films aren't is cheap. His later 90's and 2000's films, yes, but his films always had very high production values up until a certain point and then they started looking like generic direct to video films.

by Anonymousreply 108November 14, 2020 7:18 PM

So, I decided to tick another Argento off the list tonight, and watched Opera. This is the one often referred to as his last great giallo. I enjoyed it! I'm still squeamish and have to look away at parts, but I think a lot of what really added to the atmosphere was that constantly moving camera. It made me feel slightly seasick and constantly on the edge of my seat that something might be going to happen. And I enjoyed the way it was used towards the end to show the raven searching out the killer. That was cool.

Lots of cool little Argento setpieces in it too - like the crawlspace between the apartments. Or the weird bit near the end where the housekeeper goes downstairs and they hear her scream and just shrug it off. Totally not believable, but perfectly Argento, haha. And the part where Mark and Betty look out the window to try and catch a glimpse of the man who is watching her apartment and they see the empty phonebox - that was a very Hitchcockian scene, I thought. Similar to The 39 Steps. Actually I think this is the movie I've found his Hitchcock inspiration most obvious.

Probably the only thing I wasn't keen on was the "heavy metal" type score that showed up in places. But the use of opera music and Brian Eno's weirdness where all good. Oh, I thought it was interesting too that this was the first movie of his I've seen that didn't really seem to have a sense of place. I am actually not sure where this was meant to be set, aside from the Swiss part at the end. Most of his movies really make the setting integral to the atmosphere: whether Turin, Freiburg, New York, Switzerland, the near-future almost dystopian Rome of Tenebrae... but here that sense of place was missing, which was a slight shame.

But all in all, I thought it was really good!

by Anonymousreply 109November 26, 2020 10:59 AM

I didn't mean to, but ended up watching another Argento tonight, this time Il Gatto a Nove Code. I was actually looking for Four Flies on Grey Velvet on YouTube, but it's not there, so I watched Cat instead. And I really enjoyed this one too. I was kinda surprised actually as I wasn't expecting to think much of it at all. It's kinda the early one that you don't hear people talking about so much. But I thought it was good. It's no L'Uccello or Profondo Rosso, but yeah, enjoyable all the same.

I thought it was interesting that it was a lot less graphic than what I expect from Argento (apart from the elevator shaft scene and the lingering on Bianca's death, but even these were less than usual). There was no real Argento set piece in this film, the closest maybe the scene of Franco at the door to the mausoleum while Carlo is looking for the necklace. It also varies from most of the films in that it doesn't do the foreigner in a strange country getting mixed up with a mystery and has to solve it type thing. I thought Franco and Lori were sweet, and I thought Carlo was very good looking, with a nice looking bum in those faun trousers.

The most interesting scene to me though was Carlo's trip to the gay bar. You know, for a film made in 1971 by a heterosexual, I thought the depiction of the gay characters in this really wasn't as bad as you would expect. Argento seems to have a respectful eye for the gay characters existing as they are, if that makes sense. I'm not saying it would necessarily be approved by today's standards, but it really was more sympathetic than I thought it would be, and it reminded me a bit of the transgender character in Profondo Rosso who gets treated sympathetically too. Carlo takes it all in his stride. We'd almost not believe it could be possible if the film was made today but set in the 70s, because of our preconceptions. I liked it!

Now, all I have left is Quattro Mosche di Veluto Grigio from the classic era of Argento (Bird to Opera) and I am done. I may continue with Trauma and Stendahl later on though, as I have heard a number of people say they enjoyed those.

by Anonymousreply 110November 29, 2020 12:04 PM

[quote]The cool part about Suspiria is that he'd written it with young children in mind, so all the dialogue was written with that in mind. He couldn't get funding for a film about witches brutally murdering children, so he cast it with 20-somethings but never changed the dialogue, so they're still behaving like children which gives it an extra weird layer.

YES! Nowhere is it more telegraphed that he did that than in the scene with Olga and Sarah: "Suzie... Sarah... I once read that names which begin with the letter S... are the names of SNAKES! SSSSS! SSSSSS!"

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by Anonymousreply 111December 3, 2020 11:58 PM

A bit of sad news, I just discovered that Daria Nicolodi passed away only a bit over a week ago. She was only 70 too. I loved her appearances in Argento's movies, especially Profondo Rosso.

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by Anonymousreply 112December 6, 2020 2:41 AM

Quattro mosche di velluto grigio is fascinating. The central image - literally of four flies on gray velvet - is so bizarre and yet so chilling when it finally slides into place.

If you are interested in similar films from other directors, I recommend "Lizard in a Woman's Skin" and "Don't Torture a Duckling" as well as "The House with the Laughing Windows" and "Twitch of the Death Nerve."

by Anonymousreply 113December 6, 2020 2:57 AM

Ooh thanks R113. I have heard good things about "Don't Torture a Ducking". I have seen bits and pieces of "Twitch of the Death Nerve" but not the whole thing. Just to see how movies like Friday the 13th took a lot from these earlier, Italian movies. Oh, and I've watched the very final scene, which is just bizarre and awesome!

You've got me even more excited for Quattro mosche now. I've been dying to see it since I saw the opening credits sequence on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 114December 6, 2020 3:02 AM

A word of caution. Woman in a Lizard's Skin contains a scene set in a vast decaying building that is usually excised. Do not seek out the uncut version. And Don't Torture a Duckling has a very ugly scene midway that is not the least bit funny or intended to be, despite the slightly campy nature of the opening sequences. Fulci is not Argento. His work can be much grittier and "Don't Torture a Duckling" is very much a bleak social critique.

by Anonymousreply 115December 6, 2020 3:11 AM

Thanks for the warning, R115. I will be aware. I have seen Fulci's "Zombi 2" and I completely looked in the other direction during THAT scene, as I knew that was coming. So I'm glad to be forewarned for these others too.

by Anonymousreply 116December 6, 2020 3:14 AM

R116 - the scene in "Lizard" takes place when the woman opens a door in the attic of the vast building. What she sees landed Fulci in court.

The sequence in "Duckling" is both easier and harder to take in that it is less gratuitous in terms of plot - in fact it is integral to the film's themes of superstition and poverty breeding violence - but less dreamlike in conception. It's a grueling tragedy, rather than a WTF moment.

by Anonymousreply 117December 6, 2020 3:24 AM

I'm glad you do think about it, I love hearing opinions like this. It often takes me awhile after seeing something to be able to think about it critically like that, so I always appreciate hearing from the smart people :).

I've said it many times before but I wish modern filmmakers would get inspired by the aesthetics, the colour and the sound from these old movies, it would be lovely to see. I suppose some of them do of course, but I don't see it often.

by Anonymousreply 118December 6, 2020 3:29 AM

Those Italian horror films were so gorgeous from the 60's up until the late 80's and then everything switched and they seemed to be trying to ape American films more. Things became more colorless and bland.

by Anonymousreply 119December 6, 2020 3:31 PM

Very true R119. I would love to see some of that kind of beauty in film come back again.

by Anonymousreply 120December 6, 2020 8:25 PM

Wow, I can't believe Daria is dead. That's so sad. I think 70 nowadays is still too young to die. It's more of a late-middle age as opposed to be elderly like it was 30 years ago. She should still be alive.

I'm really upset about hearing of Daria's passing. I loved so many of the films she wrote and acted in.

by Anonymousreply 121December 6, 2020 8:32 PM

I agree with you R121. It is way too young for her, and it really did shock me when I suddenly saw that article.

by Anonymousreply 122December 6, 2020 8:35 PM

I saw the original "Suspiria" when I was around 12 and it left an indelible impression. Loved it ever since. I also am a huge fan of Guadagnino's remake. The muted colors (in contrast with the LSD palettes from the original) give it such a cold, somber atmosphere, and it is beautifully shot and truly eerie. I do think the political themes woven into the screenplay are half-baked and don't fully work, but if nothing else, it was an unusual and ambitious experiment. I went and saw it three times when it was in theaters.

by Anonymousreply 123December 6, 2020 8:39 PM

R123, I concur. I love both the films, they both have points I really enjoy in them. I've only seen the remake twice (the original more times than I can remember) but will definitely rewatch it periodically. I really enjoyed that it was able to make muted colours look beautiful at the same time.

by Anonymousreply 124December 7, 2020 2:47 AM

Has anyone here seen the episodes directed by Argento for Masters of Horror? He did two: "Jenifer" and "Pelts". I've not seen them, but was wondering what people thought. I just came across a thread on reddit where some people were saying they thought "Jenifer" was right up there with some of the best stuff he's done.

by Anonymousreply 125December 8, 2020 10:04 AM

They were okay I thought. JENIFER was a bit generic, but the story is passable. The direction didn't really have any Argento feel, apart from a couple of seconds I would have not have thought it was from Argento. It is filmed in Canada but has a very American production feel.

Pelts is much more Argento in tone, dark, with a fascinating color palette and some tricky camera work. It also has a VERY perverse sense of humor. It is not one I would recommend for the squirmish, however. Meatloaf is the star of PELTS and he delivers a surprisingly great performance in it.

by Anonymousreply 126December 8, 2020 11:17 AM

Pelts felt like where Argento was trying to go with Trauma, but failed. It's been a while since I've seen Pelts, it's low budget but he is really unrestrained in it, and having a good time like it's the 70s again.

by Anonymousreply 127December 8, 2020 11:40 AM

I absolutely love both Jenifer and Pelts. Both have their virtues, but Pelts is definitely top-tier 21st century Argento (I know that’s fainter praise than I really mean it to be, alas). As was already said, Meat Loaf does an excellent job and there are a few scenes that are up there with Argento’s best. Thankfully, both have engrossing and surprising plots, as well, which is definitely not always the case with Argento.

by Anonymousreply 128December 8, 2020 11:46 AM

Thanks guys. I've been wary of checking out any of his stuff post Opera, but I will have to give these episodes a try. After all Sleepless wasn't a complete bust.

by Anonymousreply 129December 9, 2020 12:01 AM

R121, another nod for Daria. I thought she was a very beautiful woman and brought a lot to these films. She was excellent in Phenomena. Sad to hear she is no longer with us and at a relatively yougn age.

by Anonymousreply 130December 9, 2020 4:31 AM

Daria was a huge influence on Dario and it's interesting that, the moment she stopped being involved with his films, his best work was behind him. His first few films are very good, but it was really Deep Red where his style started to take shape and he really flourished from '75 to '87. He made his best films while he was involved with her.

by Anonymousreply 131December 9, 2020 5:09 PM

Argento sure liked the image of a wet woman in the back of a taxi, as in R112, didn't he?

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by Anonymousreply 132December 10, 2020 8:36 PM

And:

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by Anonymousreply 133December 10, 2020 8:38 PM

Daria (along with Argento) used to claim that the inspiration for "Suspiria" came from a story her grandmother had told her about encountering a coven of witches at a music academy she took a piano lesson at as a girl. I always found the story very creepy, though later Argento apparently said they fabricated it. It is an odd thing to make up.

by Anonymousreply 134December 11, 2020 7:35 AM

Me too! Yeah, I found an interview awhile after I heard the story where he said he and Daria made the story up (my claim to fame is that I put that in the wiki, haha), but it was creepy . Something about her grandmother having to flee the school after she found that out, it makes for a great tale. It is an odd thing to make up though, I agree.

by Anonymousreply 135December 11, 2020 7:40 PM

R135 - "Witches" were a term for politically active anti-fascist women in the 1940s and after. My mother and a friend visited a "coven" when they toured Italy several years ago. That might have been what inspired "Suspiria's" remake.

by Anonymousreply 136December 11, 2020 8:33 PM

Really, R136? That's so interesting! And I can completely see that inspiring the remake!

I mean, it makes sense. "Witch" I think has often been used as a term to define women outside the "norm".

by Anonymousreply 137December 11, 2020 8:38 PM

According to the ladies of the "coven" that hosted my mom, women would pretend to actually be witches which frightened the superstitious away but also made the cops and fascists' ignore them since they thought it was just rich ladies being silly with seances and herbal cures. They then could discuss politics and plan things without people listening.

by Anonymousreply 138December 12, 2020 6:02 AM

What a fucking amazing story! That is so cool! Haha, good on them!

by Anonymousreply 139December 12, 2020 6:03 AM

R117, just stopping by to mention that I did watch Fulci's "City of the Living Dead" the other night, and plan to go through the Gates of Hell Trilogy. I spoke about it elsewhere on here, but it was interesting to watch. I can see what you mean when you say "Fulci is not Argento", this film even felt much bleaker and less "fun". Also, I must admit I didn't watch every scene, just listening to it was bad enough.

I still was interested while watching it though, and keen to watch the other two. I totally didn't get the ending though. It was a happy ending as far as you could expect, but they start randomly screaming when the boy runs towards them? I didn't know if I missed something or I should just take that as part of the "dream logic" of these films.

by Anonymousreply 140December 29, 2020 4:46 AM

I'm back, my friends, and want to thank R84 for mentioning that it is worth watching The Stendhal Syndrome. I mentioned above I thought I would struggle with certain scenes in it, but the poster was correct - they weren't explicit in the way I was expecting. They were horrific and repulsive, but in a "this is a horror movie" way, I didn't feel it was exploitative, you know? It's hard to explain, but my worries were for nothing really, it was different to what I was expecting.

I never intended to watch it, but came across it on YouTube tonight and thought: "Oh, I'll just watch the first 10 minutes and then stop"... but I really was hooked from the beginning. Argento's direction here is really good, classic Argento really. He makes the artistic pieces he films so ominous, and I liked that. Also, the actor playing Alfredo is a really good looking guy, but I loved that the direction made him look so repulsive. There was nothing attractive about him and I think that's a real skill to make a good looking guy so off putting like that. If I'm making sense? I guess I'm just reiterating that it really wasn't as exploitative as often these types of scenes are, sometimes they almost seem tittilating. And I appreciated that this wasn't that.

It's not without problems, but no Argento is. It's just too recent for the dubbing to seem quaint and part of the charm, you know? It wasn't as bad as I've seen elsewhere, but I did think: imagine if this film could be made today, with Argento's eye for direction, but proper audio and proper CGI (if needed, the CGI in this was wholly unnecessary, I thought).

But all up, I'm glad I watched it. Will have to see Trauma sometime soon - maybe an argument could be made that Argento is actually good up until The Stendhal Syndrome, rather than up to Opera?

by Anonymousreply 141February 21, 2021 10:23 AM

The Shtendhal Shyndrome - where Ashia Argento is shexually asshaulted after shuffering an epishode in a musheum. Shpooky shtuff!

by Anonymousreply 142February 21, 2021 6:49 PM

Ticked off another Argento tonight - found a copy of Trauma online.

It's a feeling I haven't had watching Argento, since Sleepless. I was pretty disappointed in it. There were flashes of Argento's style in it which made me feel happy to be watching him, but all in all, it just didn't work that well. There were no setpieces, it felt a lot less stylish and a lot more "everyday". It felt like it dragged along, too. I think when the killer has the same method of killing over and over again that actually makes it a lot less interesting to watch. You know what is going to happen, so there's no real suspense.

I guessed who the killer had to be, not because of the plot, but because I thought: "you don't hire that person and not give them more to do than we initially thought".

I mean, I didn't hate it. There were a couple of interesting ideas which could've been better utilised - the whole anorexia thing for a start, and also the scene at the mental hospital could've been really great. The main male character was the type I used to find attractive back in 1993 when the film was made and I was just entering puberty, so there was some nostalgia there.

On my list of those Argento's I've watched, this is at the bottom, along with Sleepless. But Sleepless has that great opening 20-minute setpiece, so I think it edges Trauma out. I've at least rewatched that part of Sleepless a few times. I'm not sure I want to rewatch Trauma particularly.

by Anonymousreply 143March 26, 2021 11:21 AM

R134, Actually, the story he tells was about his mother/her grandmother taking lessons at a Waldorf/Steiner School. Looking from the outside, Anthroposophists probably did seem like a coven of witches. Also, that probably influenced the design as Waldorf schools are notorious for their use of color. In the 30s/40s, the colors must have seemed even more outrageous.

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by Anonymousreply 144March 26, 2021 1:07 PM

Here's an old article where he discusses the story behind Suspiria briefly:

[quote][bold]Is it true that Suspiria was inspired by your then-girlfriend, actress Daria Nicolodi, whose grandmother discovered her ballet school was a front for black magic?[/bold]

[quote]No, that story was made up. But my supernatural films do follow real beliefs and legends.

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by Anonymousreply 145March 27, 2021 1:15 AM

It's shet is a shcary danshing shchool shomeplashe in Shtrashbourg!

by Anonymousreply 146March 27, 2021 1:19 AM

I saw the whole trilogy, Suspiria was amazing; Inferno was just meh (but the opening underwater scene was great); Mother of Tears was godawful. Ps I love these Liza movie reviews haha.

by Anonymousreply 147March 27, 2021 6:14 AM

Jesshica Harper shtars as Shuzy Bannion, a danshe shtudent shtraight from the United Shtatesh! She shenshesh a shinishter conshpirashy at work at the shcary danshe shchool!

by Anonymousreply 148March 27, 2021 6:21 AM

cant remember if i posted before on this. The movie is a mess. It doesn't make any sense and at 140 minutes is painfully long. That said, its worthfast forwarding to the big dance recital sequence and then the final 10-15 minute bloodbath. Both are magnificent and memorable cinema.

by Anonymousreply 149March 27, 2021 6:51 AM

I assume you are referring to the remake, R149.

by Anonymousreply 150March 27, 2021 7:55 AM

R147, Liza reviewing the entire works of Dario Argento would be amazing (and one of those hilariously niche things like Drew Droege's Chloe Sevigny impersonations that works so well because it is so niche). Let's make this happen! ;)

Also, I have to say, I love Inferno as much as, sometimes if not more, than Suspiria. The tone of it is great, and I particularly love the first half of the film, with the drowned ballroom, and the scenes in Rome with the ill-fated Sarah doing some investigation. Never seen Mother of Tears and I kinda don't wanna. I've seen a little bit of post-Opera Argento and it doesn't fill me with a lot of promise. I don't think I can handle having the trilogy I love end on a note like that. Will just imagine instead what may have been.

by Anonymousreply 151March 27, 2021 9:45 AM

Ennio Morricone's haunting and creepy theme score for Stendhal Syndrome follows the same tune whether it's in forwards or reverse.

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by Anonymousreply 152March 27, 2021 10:43 AM

That's so interesting R152. Just listening to it now, and it's really great. Generally the music in his films is awesome (that was another knock against Trauma, the music felt out of place and too much in certain parts).

Ooh, the spooky whispering is starting - this is really awesome!

by Anonymousreply 153March 27, 2021 11:42 AM

Ok, the question is: Do we have Liza doing full reviews of the works of Argento, or does she introduce each movie, à la Masterpiece Theatre or similar?

by Anonymousreply 154March 27, 2021 11:47 AM

R145 didn't he initially try to deny Nicolodi any credit for co-writing Suspiria, but she challenged him on it, until it was ultimately ruled she had to get co-screenqriter credit?

She claimed she also deserved credit for Inferno.

by Anonymousreply 155March 27, 2021 11:53 AM

R155, I have heard that too - I don't know for certain one way or the other, but it does seem like that is what happened. I'm pretty sure she was heavily involved in the writing of both Suspiria, and Inferno, as well as the original third part of the trilogy.

It's interesting to see the characters Daria played over her time with Dario - from spunky lead, to terrified victim, screaming final girl, vicious murderer, to brutally murdered, to ghost. I mean, it probably doesn't mean anything, but you do wonder if it was a reflection of his relationship with her over time.

I believe she took the script for the third Mother movie and turned it into Demons 2, so I guess she got her own back there. Unless it was another movie I am thinking of?

by Anonymousreply 156March 27, 2021 12:07 PM

The ideas from Daria's final Mothers script were used for Luigi Cozzi's The Black Cat (aka Demons 6). The subject of the movie is the immortal witch Levana, the ancient Roman goddess of childbirth.

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by Anonymousreply 157March 27, 2021 12:31 PM

^Ah great, thanks R157, it was The Black Cat, not Demons 2.

by Anonymousreply 158March 27, 2021 12:55 PM

The Shtendahl Shyndrome

by Anonymousreply 159March 27, 2021 3:47 PM

Exshcushe me! I shaid above that "Shushpiria" takesh plashe in Shtrashbourg, but it'sh actually shet in Freiburg inshtead! Shorry!

I shometimes mixsh up my Shaxon shitties!

by Anonymousreply 160March 27, 2021 4:07 PM

^I frigging love you!

by Anonymousreply 161March 27, 2021 8:01 PM

Hi everybody, itsh me, Lisha. Today I’ll be reviewing shpooky shlasher shinema sheboleth Shushpiria, by Dario Argento. Shet in a dansh academy shomewhere in Shwitzerland or posshibly Shcandinavia, the movie is awash with shpectral colorsh. Shome American girl, Shushie by name, arrives with her schtuff but can’t get into the shchool becaush shome shtrumpet schreams at her and shcampers into the shtormy night. Later thish shame girl plungsh through a shtained glash sheiling caushing her to shnuff it.

Meanwhile Sushi ish trying to make friends with the shtuck-up bitchshesh at shchool . There is a shweet guy and a girl named Shara and another chick who sheems to be shomewaht shociopathic and livesh in thish placsh with Art Deco wallpaper that will knock your eyeballsh back into your shkull. Bashically it turns out that the instructressh and her fellow teachersh are all witchshesh. Shara gets shtabbed; the cute boy and the other chick dishappear and Shusie is left sheeking to shubdue the ishidious shorceresch whosh shinishter shighs and shushpirations shure are shkin-crawlingly shuggestive.

The shcore ish shwell.

by Anonymousreply 162March 28, 2021 12:36 AM

Hahahahaha! Thanks Liza! That was great :D "Shimply shenshashional" as you might say.

by Anonymousreply 163March 28, 2021 2:52 AM

I can’t wait for Liza’s review or The Schtendahl Schyndrome!

by Anonymousreply 164March 28, 2021 7:20 AM

[...]

by Anonymousreply 165March 28, 2021 7:37 AM

Chloe Grace Moretz is an odd choice to have for a dancer, not only a dancer, but supposedly the favoured student of a dance school. She just doesn't look the part.

R164, there's a taste at R142 ;)

by Anonymousreply 166March 28, 2021 9:57 AM

I wonder if Liza will prefer Profundo Rossho to Shushpiria? I’m not sure if she is an “uber fan” or merely an enthushisht.

by Anonymousreply 167March 28, 2021 11:55 AM

I'm almost imagining that Liza knows nothing about Argento, but has watched them and then has to do a "shummary" of them afterwards.

by Anonymousreply 168March 28, 2021 8:03 PM

Me, know nothing? Pleesh! I am a huge fan of Italian thrillersh. I love Mario Bavash, Luchio Fulshish, and the whole shycle of the Animalsh Trilogy: Flour Fliesh on Gray Velvet, Cat O' Nine Tailsh and the Bird with Cryshtal Plummage. Mashterful schtuff!

by Anonymousreply 169March 29, 2021 1:07 AM

Hello everybody! Itsh me again, Lisha, here to review Argento’s shequel to Shushpiria, Inferno. Thish film is shet in New York and Rome, two of my favorite shitties. It beginsh with shome actressh named Irene Miracle (and in what old shuitcase did she find that name) playing a women living in a shinister apartment building shomehwere on the Upper West Shide. She losesh her keysh down a shewer. Now, when I drop my keysh down the shewer I call the shuperintendant, but she deshides to shcwim after them. Sherch me. Anyway the shewer is unexshpectedly schwanky, full of shofas and shconces and shtained glass, but also shwarming with shwollen corpshesh and she schreams and schreams.

Later in Rome, her shexy brother is in classh with two other chicksh, one of whom ish petting her pusshy in public. The shecond, less shlutty girl visitish a library in shome godforshaken shateau and later getsh shanked for shnooping for shecrets. Back in Gotham Shity a whole bunsh of other shit happens, moshtly ending badly for varioush ashholes before the Mother of Darknesh revealsh hershelf to be the not-very-shexy nursh of the architect who built the apartment building in the firsht placsh.

Not ash eashy to follow as Shushpiria, thish ish worth a look for the shets, the shurprise shcares and the shuperb shoundtrack.

by Anonymousreply 170March 29, 2021 1:21 AM

I wonder if Liza ever hung out with Dario and Daria back in the day. Irene Miracle did a podcast a few weeks ago about Inferno and said Dario was coked out and unshowered anytime she saw him and that Mario Bava actually directed anything she did in the film, especially the underwater scene.

by Anonymousreply 171March 29, 2021 6:09 AM

Apologies Liza, I won't doubt your love of Italian horror again! And thanks for the "fantashtic" review of Inferno, a movie I often think I like more than Suspiria!

R171, that is really interesting, I would love to hear that podcast. I read somewhere that Dario had contracted hepatitis during the filming of Inferno and was sick for a lot of it, so Bava stepped in.

by Anonymousreply 172March 29, 2021 8:13 AM

Will Liza watch Mother of Tearsh too, I wonder? I've not seen it myself, I've heard it's so bad, but I'd watch a Liza review, haha.

by Anonymousreply 173March 30, 2021 8:58 AM

Up nexsht, R173.

by Anonymousreply 174March 30, 2021 3:21 PM

I really am imagining Liza sitting in an armchair by a crackling fire as she excitedly runs through these synopsis, haha!

by Anonymousreply 175March 30, 2021 7:27 PM

Hi everybody, itsh me, Lisha. Today I’ll be reviewing The Mother of Tearsh, the shocking final inshtallment of the Three Mothersh trilogy. Shocking moshtly becaush it ish shush shit. It shtartsh with an inveshtagator played by Ashia Arshgento, the directorsh daughter, who looksh like Shelley Duvall and Winona Ryder schwapped featuresh before shecumbing to an epishode of dipshomania. She ish a witness to a grueshome ashault upon shomeone shtudying an anshient scheplecure and shoon findsh out that all of Rome ish under the shway of the Mother of Tearsh, the eponymoush shexbomb prinshesh of darknesh, who capersh around el nudo and hash the mosht amashing titsh you’ve ever sheen.

She sheeks help from a handshome Britishhh guy, but alash, hish young shon is shtolen away by the shultry shiren’s Shatanic shtudents and he is redushed to an offshreen dimisesh. Meanwhile, the witchesh acolytesh are arriving in Rome from every consheivable airline, shrieking and shquealing ash if they were a crossh between a Shex in the Shitty shequel and the worldsh creepieisht bunch of Aushtralian touristsh. Creeping through a nightmarishh shabbat in a sheries of shubbterainean shells, Ashia evidently findsh the button marked “end of movie” and pressesh it like nobodysh buishnessh.

Ash well she might, becaush outshide of the head witch’s tittiesh and a sheen where Ashia ashcapes an Ashian witch on an expressh train, thish thing ish about as much fun as a shandpaper condom.

by Anonymousreply 176March 30, 2021 10:02 PM

Liza reviewing - or “shummarishing” - the films of Dario Argento is the most magical moment of 2021 for me.

by Anonymousreply 177March 31, 2021 7:09 AM

If Liza is OK with shugesshtons I’d love it hear her thoughts on Phenomena aka Creepersh, schtarring a young Jennifer Connolly.

by Anonymousreply 178March 31, 2021 7:15 AM

Up nexsht in the queueueu, or however you shpell that, R178.

by Anonymousreply 179March 31, 2021 7:34 AM

I'm right on board with you, Irene at R177. And thanks Liza, I've never seen Mother of Tears, and now? I don't have to!

It's such a pity it wasn't filmed in the 80s, using Ania Pieroni again as the third mother. She had beautiful, dare I say it, bewitching, eyes.

by Anonymousreply 180March 31, 2021 8:40 AM

They could remake these movies, starring Liza herself.

Liza Minnelli IS Suzy Bannion!

Liza Minnelli IS Jennifer Corvino!

Etc.

by Anonymousreply 181April 1, 2021 8:13 AM

Hi everybody, itsh me, Lisha. Today I’ll be reviewing Creepersh, alsho known by the more elegant (and accurate) title of Phenomena. It shtars the lovely young goddam her to hell Jennifer Connelly ash a shtudent at an upper clash finishshing shchool in Schwitsherland. It beginsh with one of the mosht dishtubring opening shequencesh ever committed to shelluloid - a young girl left behind by her tour bussh sheeks help at a decaying shalet only to be defenishtrated by a mad killer we never get to shee. Meanwhile Jennifer is shettling into her routine, or trying to, as her teachersh are all hoshtile fashistish who think sheeesh a weirdo. Which shee ish. She hash the ability to shpeak to inshects and shipders which turnsh out to be intereshting than you'd asshume. She alsho shtrikes up an acquaintensship with a shienticsth who hash a chimp ash as an exeshutive asshishtant.

Shtudents are killed ash the killer goes increashingly bersherk. Jennifer triesh to get to the bottom of thingsh, but not before the professhor ish killed and the chimp acquiresh a rashor. She ish finally lured to the home of one of the teachersh who turnsh out to have a young shon who ish, shall we shay. not anybodysh idea of next monthsh Playgirl shenterfold. He chasesh her, she callsh upon the power of the inshect kingdon to dishpatcsh him, hish mother attacksh, then show does the chimp. Three guessesh ash to who shurvivesh.

Great shcore, Jennifer ish lovely (bitch) and there are shome genuinely shtomach-turning momentsh.

by Anonymousreply 182April 3, 2021 4:37 AM

Thanks again Liza! I must admit, I lost it at "Schwitsherland"! 😂

Going through the remaining Argento titles, I'm thinking "Shleeplessh" is probable perfect for Liza.

by Anonymousreply 183April 3, 2021 4:42 AM

I loved this demonic ass film. Tilda Swinton served and Dakota Johnson was a surprise.

by Anonymousreply 184April 3, 2021 4:47 AM

I liked it too, R184, as someone who is a big fan of the original. I know it's pretty mixed in its reviews, but I have enjoyed it both times I've seen it. In part it's because the 1970s Berlin aesthetic just appeals to me.

by Anonymousreply 185April 3, 2021 4:53 AM

My ranking (best to worst) of Argento's of the ones I've seen so far, and based on how I feel in this particular moment (I've enjoyed everything from 1 to 8 in their entirety though):

1. Suspiria

2. Profondo Rosso

3. Inferno

4. Tenebre

5. Phenomena

6. L'uccello dalle piume di cristallo

7. Il gatto a nove code

8. Opera

9. Sleepless

10. Trauma

by Anonymousreply 186June 6, 2021 12:02 PM

Bugger and bollocks, I forgot I'd seen The Stendahl Syndrome too and enjoyed it. Would put it up there before Opera.

by Anonymousreply 187June 6, 2021 12:04 PM

I'm so happy to report that I managed to find a copy of Four Flies on Grey Velvet and I watched it tonight, which means I have now seen every Argento that I wanted to see (and a couple of extras). I suppose one day I [italic]may[/italic] try to watch La Terza Madre, but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyway, glad to have seen this one. The lead actor was very attractive and we got a partial culo shot, mmm. I was surprised by how funny a lot of this movie was, like when Roberto is looking for his friend Godfrey and calling out: "God? God?" and the music suddenly goes "Hallelujah!" Hehehe, that tickled me.

The gay character, oh my! It's been so long since I've seen a stereotype like that, if I ever have, that it actually startled me. And then just made me laugh, it was pretty ridiculous. Maybe I should be offended by it, but it was just too silly. Plus, Argento tends to often have portrayals of gay, lesbian or trans people it seems, and while you could often say he's not exactly sensitive about it, I never feel he's being malevolent and it seems like every movie where the main character comes in contact with one of the community they are shown to not be letting it bother them/being accepting. But man was it a trip!

I found the editing a bit weird and choppy, and there was a lack of really good setpieces, I thought, also I would say it wasn't even as gory as The Cat O' Nine Tails. But it was ok! I am glad Argento ramped things up from here though, rather than continuing down the basic giallo path. If he had, I probably wouldn't have been as much of a fan. To me, after having seen many of the movies, I can confidently say that while I like everything I've seen to varying degrees (with the exception of Trauma which I didn't like much), Argento's classic period, his peak, to me is definitely: Deep Red - Suspiria - Inferno - Tenebrae - Phenomena. Those are my favourites.

by Anonymousreply 188September 19, 2021 12:00 PM

I loved it until the over-the-top end that lasted forever and got more and more implausible. What I liked about it in the first 80% is that it was somewhat realistic. Tilda/spoiler blew my mind just a little.

by Anonymousreply 189September 19, 2021 12:18 PM

Striking visuals, but too pretentious for my taste.

And they took too many liberties with the plot. It was Suspiria in name only.

by Anonymousreply 190September 19, 2021 12:31 PM

I guess it was quite a difficult decision - if it stuck too closely to the original it would definitely be negatively compared to it, and Argento has a very particular look to his films that another director wouldn't want to be accused of doing a pale imitation of, so I can understand why Luca went in the other direction.

I dunno, I liked it! I prefer the original, but I do like this one very much too.

by Anonymousreply 191September 20, 2021 8:51 AM

I didn’t hate the new Suspiria… always interested in new interpretations of art I love. As William S. Borroughs said about Naked Lunch being “remade” as a film, there’s always the original on the shelf. If you don’t want to see it, don’t. The original always remains, so remaking or re-interpreting is gravy ($).

I would love someone to remake Tenebrae, especially since it was set in 1980s version of “now” originally. Bonus: trans.

by Anonymousreply 192September 21, 2021 7:41 AM

Ooh yes, and I didn't realise it until after I watched it but Tenebrae was very influential on other directors too (Tarantino being the obvious one). I believe Tarantino also wanted to do a remake of Fulci's The Psychic (he uses the theme song from the Psychic in Kill Bill). I would've been interested to see that. I quite liked The Psychic, obviously fake mannequin at the beginning aside. I mean, her outfits were stunning for a start! :)

by Anonymousreply 193September 21, 2021 9:38 AM

1977 version - masterpiece

Luca version - piece of shit

by Anonymousreply 194September 21, 2021 9:55 AM

"Hey! Why don't you close it?"

by Anonymousreply 195September 21, 2021 10:29 AM

Trauma is one Argento movie I have given up on attempts to watch several times, despite it has some interesting points - the cinematography is pretty good and 90s Minneapolis setting looks different. It's bit cold and a bit featureless, but it could be anyplace, anywhere.

But the tone is all over the place. I think it's the only time I remember Dario being sentimental in a movie, even cutesy. Piper Laurie is even more over the top than usual, yet it's all strangely unsatisfying.

The music was also horrendous. It sounded like Danny Elfman was constantly winking to the audience. It was grating and completely unnecessary for Argento.

by Anonymousreply 196September 21, 2021 11:05 AM

There was also something unsatisfying, I thought R196, about the deaths being the same every single time. The lack of variety got boring.

by Anonymousreply 197September 21, 2021 1:17 PM

I really thought this was a great remake. Very effective.

by Anonymousreply 198September 21, 2021 1:22 PM
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