Polish minister says that the entire country should be an ‘LGBT free zone’

Eastern Europeans no likey the gays.

Of course

The lady doth protest too much.

Sounds similar to Judenrein. Now, where did I hear that?

The problem is that this is popular and won The election

R1 are all easteuro countries pretty much like this?

Essentially. Poland and Russia are more virulent than most others

Honest to god I don’t understand why they get so worked up about us, other than it is politically useful. Glad I went to Krakow in 2015 before the hate got so cranked up. I would never go there now.

Are Catholic Eastern European countries (Poland, Hungary, Croatia, etc) more homophobic than Eastern Orthodox countries (Russia, Serbia, Greece, etc)?

This is frightening. I had no idea. Thought Russia was the main homophonic place.

Sad.

[italic]Homophonic?[/italic]

Poland's always been a shithole, that's why I left for Paris.

Time to partition it again

R12 Moi aussi.

Polish people are based af.

Hungary is rightwing facist, but not as gay-focused as Poland. Croatia has civil unions, legalized gay marriage for a period until voters quashed it. Greece has civil unions. Poland and Russia are the worst in Europe.

Serbia is lead my an openly lesbian Prime Minister

Croatia has the most advanced LGBT rights in the Slavic World according to ILGA-Europe.

When is a Polish boycott to be announced? When they designate LGBT - free zones, whatever do they propose to do with the gay citizens living in such a zone? US troops ought to pull out of Poland.

Slovenia has a domestic partnership law

Economics will decide Poland's fate not LGB public policy .

No market=no business=no jobs.

The EU needs to cut the parasites off- like starting this afternoon.

And don't answer Kowalski's panicked and desperate phone calls either.

cunts

Many countries (Armenia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Serbia, Ukraine and even Montenegro), have constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, defining it strictly as “the union of a man and a woman.” Croatia introduced a similar clause in its constitution following a referendum in 2013.

In 2018, Romania also attempted to introduce such a definition via a referendum, but turnout was low and the result was invalid. Same-sex civil partnerships remain outlawed in the country however.

Montenegro recently legalized civil Unions

Sorry , i live in Poland and people are AGAINST it. Some idiot is homophobe but that is all. Dont hate on all polish people, ok? People dont agree to this.

Time to treat them like we treat Serbia.

So noble.

Some of the least developed Eastern European nations aren’t even developed or culturally far along to even consider gay rights. They have very few openly gay people and cultural conservatism makes any public discussion of sexuality taboo. Poland has more an educated and western population that was clamoring for women’s and gay rights. Of course, there are huge numbers who oppose as threats to traditional values and beliefs, and a powerful backlash developed. It was simply too soon for gay rights to advance in Poland.

What's truly sad is that r25 is right, Poland has made big strides lately, possibly because of Germany having legalized it. The latest opinion poll I saw had support for gay marriage at 45% to 50% against, which is a HUGE leap. I heard somebody say once that Eastern Europe is about 10 years behind the West in support for gay rights, which sounds about right.

Also, Duda only won the election by 2%, 49-51. Unfortunately as we Americans know, sometimes assholes who win close elections take it as a mandate to do what they want. If they try to enshrine this crap into law, then I hope the EU decides to step in and REGULATE. Otherwise all their human rights babble is just virtue-signalling bullshit.

R25, why did y’all re-elect Duda then?

R25 I don't believe in hating entire groups of any people, yet some shall argue a majority of Polish voters did elect this cretin.

As regards my father's Jewish family, Poland doesn't have a good track record for hospitality. My ancestors left for Britain in the Nineteenth century, and rarely did anyone go back to visit. The few who remained were almost all killed in the Holocaust.

I don't doubt there are decent Poles, they may just be few and far between in Poland. I know there are many nice Polish people throughout the rest of the world.

R30 Because people wants money. Our goverment give money (500 zlotych for every child - it is a lot if you have 3 children or even two.) And old folks over 60/65 yers old gets money too.

Sounds like a variation on Jew-free.

Poland, and the Poles, can use their experience with that.

R32 Do you at all fear for your future there? Are you uncomfortable at times, or feel oppressed?

R33 Indeed, very much so.

There is a soul a huge urban versus rural, western versus eastern dynamic in Poland.

not surprising considering it’s a country whose top tourist attraction are the ruins of concentration camps (which were staffed by Poles!)

There is also a huge urban versus rural, western versus eastern dynamic in Poland.

R36 staffed by Poles? , yeah we even put jews over there, thats our fault,, fuck off

I agree. I have no use for Leprechauns, Goblins, Brownies and Trolls.

R36 You re victim of american propaganda , I see.

It's sad that a country that has been trampled on for centuries by other countries now has to find other groups of people to trample on. You'd think they'd be more sympathetic.

R40 I wish you would share with us your perspective living there as a gay person. How your life is now, and how you see it possibly changing in the near future....

Yeah

R38 = Holocaust denier

R42 My life is fine. We are not third world country. I am not planning to get married or have children , anyway

^^^ thank God for that. We don’t need anymore dumb Pollocks

R46 A lot of racists here. Is it normal in US?

It is

R45 Thanks for your reply...Yes, there exists much racism here. Do you not see news coverage of our protests and civil unrest here in the States? That aside, the term you're thinking of would be [italic] bigots [/italic] rather than racists. I never think of Poland as a Third World country, so your answer is a bit odd, but I can understand your feeling a bit defensive.

You don't think the government may target gays, or request you to move to a different "zone"? You must understand it sounds rather frightful to those of us not living there. It does sound similar to what has gone on elsewhere before genocide occurs. The wording is quite similar to how Nazis referred to Jews.

For your own sake, and for the sake of camaraderie here amongst fellow gays, I do hope you are not a Holocaust denier.

R49 Christ, nobody will be moved to different zone. Nobody takes it seriously here. Western media overreacted .

I live in the UK and am totally against Brexit but the EU really does lose a lot of respect for me due to its inability to stand up for the rule of law in Poland and Hungary lately. I wouldn’t say there is overwhelming support for this in Poland but due to the vagaries of it’s electoral system and just enough support the PiS won and will continue to suborn the judicial system. In short, Poland is fucked.

R50 first they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. ... I think you know how the rest goes.

The government feels comfortable broadcasting this crap and it doesn’t worry you?

Well the EU just said there are no money for the lgbt free regions, if they do that with all the country probably will mean the expulsion of the UE, and unlike UK i doubt poland wants that (specially because they receive a lot of money)

R50 Regardless of your strongly held opinion that Western media have over reacted, it doesn't reflect WELL on Poland. To the rest of the world, it certainly doesn't look good, unless you happen to be Brazil's government... no one else will find this acceptable amongst civilised nations. It appears rather ugly to be frank.

I believe the very wording places you as a second or third rate citizen in the country. Do not lull yourself into a false sense of security mate. It's better to keep one's mind, and one's eyes open to even the slightest of changes. I get that you more than likely share a very different worldview to those of us in the UK and US, considering your country's struggles with the former Soviet Union, and the remnants of that system's effect on your culture. You have been beaten down to not expect too much progress too fast, which leaves you vulnerable IMHO. I honestly believe you have been desensitised to this second-rate, or third-rate status, and you're accustomed to such treatment in your country.

I wish you well, and hope you can somehow play a part to fight against such tyranny. I am not married to my partner, nor do I wish for children, yet I understand that civil and human rights must be equal across the board in any civilised country, regardless of my personal preferences or lifestyle. You need to fight for the greater good, and for the triumph of equality, liberty, and freedom to be who you naturally are.

Pollacks are mostly Jew haters

They've lost their equanimity, because they've lost their faith in l'amour.

Let's get to the important questions: What's the average size of a Polish kielbasa? Has anyone had any?

Straight guys are hot

Come on, Poland! Get it together!!

(honestly, don't know what to do here. Don't want to hate all Poles. Wish they wouldn't be such jackasses. Wish they'd come around to sanity and stop the madness.)

R57 decently sized but don’t know how to use it in my experience.

Although he moved to the UK, pornstar Kayden Gray is 100% Polish, with a magnificent uncut kielbasa.

Eastern Europeans have fundamentally different political views than Western Europeans. Those countries should be pushed out of the EU until such time, if ever, they adopt Western values.

Estonia is okay

The election result was a Russian hacker special. The ol' 51 > 49

Poles are not a race, R47.

Romania is pretty bad

The march to mark the anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising – resistance against the Nazis during the World War Two – saw the rising anti-LGBT+ sentiment long brewing in Poland spill out onto the streets.

Thugs cut up rainbow flags and rage against LGBT+ equality during Warsaw Uprising march

Thugs aligned with far-right groups burned and cut up rainbow flags as they chanted homophobic slogans.

Janusz Kowalski, the PiS’ deputy minister for state assets, called for a law banning Polish state funds that “pay for any actions and institutions which are aimed at openly promoting LGBT+ ideology”.

“The entire territory of Poland should be designated as an LGBT+ ideology-free zone, since the Polish constitution clearly identifies a family as a relationship between a man and a woman,” he told Reuters.

Przemysław Czarnek, another PiS MP, went further.

“There’s no doubt, that LGBT+ ideology grew out of… the same root as Germany’s Hitlerian National Socialism, which was responsible for all the evil of World War II,” came the bizarre claim.

An estimated 10-15,000 gay men was murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

He needs to make sure the screen hatches on their submarines are secure.

Yes, Nazi ideology clearly had nothing to do with declaring that an entire nation should be free of a certain group of people. Nope, nothing Nazi there, minister.

No mystery here. Being that Poland is a primarily black country, it's not surprising that it is rabidly homophobic. Oh, wait a minute. Never mind...

R55 I never had such a clue in over fifty years sucking the air that there were antisemitic fish. I'll duly make a note of it, and make sure my Gefilte fish is Pollack-free.

If you're going to hurl around ethnic slurs, be sure to at least spell them correctly. You already come off ignorant enough by using them...

Poland and the Polish people gleefully murdered their and most of Europe's Jews. There are no Jews left for the Poles to scapegoat and persecute. Which leaves Gays.

And now, some reality . . .

Both male and female same-sex sexual activity are legal in Poland. This was formally codified in 1932, and Poland introduced an equal age of consent for homosexuals and heterosexuals, which was set at 15.

Poland provides LGBT people with the same rights as heterosexuals in certain areas: gay and bisexual men are allowed to donate blood, gays and bisexuals are allowed to serve openly in the Polish Armed Forces, and transgender people are allowed to change their legal gender following certain requirements including undergoing hormone replacement therapy.

Polish law bans employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. [bold]No protections for health services, hate crimes and hate speech exist, however.[/bold]

In 2018, the Supreme Court ruled that it is illegal to deny goods and services on the basis of sexual orientation. However, the Constitutional Tribunal ruled that the provision of Polish Petty Offence Code, which made it illegal to deny goods and services without "a just cause", was unconstitutional

The reality is that Poland has a gay tolerant history, and protections brought and kept in by keeping friendly with the EU, and is at threat of being ripped away by a growing fascism.

LGBT Free Zones aren't meant to ruin you immediately. They're to turn human rights into a debatable, and then negative issue, and then softly turn the zones into something actually enforced, and then HARSHLY turn the zones into something enforced through deadly means. We know in history that this can be done over the course of only years, though I'm sure fascists could be patient enough to make it a (couple) decades long process that flies under the radar until its too late.

[quote] Are Catholic Eastern European countries (Poland, Hungary, Croatia, etc) more homophobic than Eastern Orthodox countries (Russia, Serbia, Greece, etc)?

NO. No way--those Orthodox countries strike me as far more homophobic than the Catholic ones.

How silly of Greece to be homophobic. Greece? Greece???!!! It is to laugh.

that is interesting r74. Of course, 1932 is an interesting date. In practice there were many decades out of that when law codes were pretty much useless. But good to know there are currently some laws on the books. I wonder though if hatred spreads throughout the society if the law can actually withstand any of that, as has happened before.

"after that" not "out of that"^^^

The whole idea, premise and wording is repugnant. In some replies, our poster from Poland strikes me as suffering something akin to Stockholm Syndrome how he has "explained" it for us, or has rationalised it. The government sounds very ignorant, despite invoking Catholic beliefs about "family (ies)" as a defence.

It's as if the Polish government believes being gay is akin to drug use or something, a bad CHOICE one makes, that can influence others, and "turn them gay", rather than a simple small variance as part of the natural world.

Civil and Equal rights isn't an ideology, per se, either, but rather it is humanity. Being humane ought not be politicised against. Wake the fuck up Poland!

I'll probably get in trouble for asking this question but does it seem to follow that the countries that hate Jews would also be more homophobic? I'm guessing yes because if you are intolerant about groups of any people for whatever reason you will be intolerant toward all groups that don't fit your standards whatever they are.

it's a reasonable question r81. I think homophobia and anti-semitism go hand in hand, and with deep roots in religious fundamentalism, Christian or Islam, but also in any regime looking for scapegoats for their own constant fuckery and ineptitude.

I think you're right in the sense that there are countries who gladly scapegoat minorities to cover their own failures, r81. For those countries it's easy to see patterns of hatred. Eastern Europe is notorious for this. As far as anti-Semitism and homophobia being specifically intertwined, remember the Holocaust? Or the Spanish Inquisition? Yet Spain and Germany don't seem particularly homophobic now.

True, but Spain and German did have to go through a lot of hell before realizing that what some old bastard wrote in a scroll 2000 years ago might just be complete horseshit. Poland isn't there yet, from all appearances.

Stop all EU funding to the bastards and that'll teach em!!

Poland’s justice ministry has handed over a cheque to one of the districts that lost out on European Union funding due to adopting a resolution declaring itself “free from LGBT ideology”. The amount is three times as much as it was supposed to receive from the EU. During the ceremony, the justice minister promised that he would always stand up for Polish districts “harassed by the European Commission for ideological reasons”. He called for the creation by the government of a “permanent support mechanism” for such places. Since early last year, a large number of local authorities in Poland – usually led by the ruling conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party – have passed anti-LGBT resolutions, often declaring themselves to be “free from LGBT ideology“. The EU authorities have condemned the resolutions as a violation of European values and possibly European law. Last year, the European Parliament urged the Commission to ensure that EU funds are not “being used for discriminatory purposes”. In June, the Commission asked local authorities in the relevant regions to explain their resolutions. Then, last month, it declared that applications for funding from six such Polish municipalities had been rejected because they failed to “respect EU values and fundamental rights”.

So sad

You might be right @R73 In the UK polish immigrants get blamed for crime and low wages

My entire experience of 1st generation Poles in the U.S. was belonging to a mostly Polish book club and when we read something referencing the Holocaust, they talked like jackasses about how much worse it was for Poles than Jews. Then, one of the women made a big deal at a dinner party about how stupid astrology is, and then told an anecdote that hinged on believing in Catholic miracles. So, imo, some Poles are a bit blinkered and delusional.

[quote]The problem is that this is popular and won The election

Elections are frequently 'won' without being at all reflective of the will of the people, R5. Duda and the fascists 'won' with only the thinnest of margins.

I run a nursery school and we get a few non-British families joining us each year. One is a Polish family (who are Jehovah's Witnesses) and they've been absolutely lovely and have embraced Britain and its more liberal values. I suspect they're not that orthodox, bearing in mind they allowed their children to partake in nursery celebrations. Mum came in as a volunteer one day and chatted about Poland - they both still have family there, but are saving to bring them over here (I gathered for a visit rather than to stay, but who knows?) - they don't want to go back as they feel Britain is a better place to raise children.

A Romanian family was far more blunt about their home country. When they said they were going to visit family I presumptuously assumed they were going back to Romania. Mum looked at me horrified "I am never going back to that shithole!" she spat. Turned out, the family members who didn't come to Britain, went to Germany instead.

And yet, I'm linking one of the most sensuous of all songs ever written coming from the pen of Poland's famous openly gay composer of the early 20th Century, Karol Szymanowski, celebrating the triumph of Bacchus over repressive religiosity. It's like a musical orgasm. He found himself in among all the beautiful men of Taormina in Sicily and never looked back, and this was in the 1919. He wrote a gay novel, and apparently didn't give a shit about what people thought. Very brave for the time. Of course there have been many others like him in Poland, so it's sad to have these regressive people at the helm of that country.

This from the country that had to replace its hockey team after a spring training accident.

Remember when Hitler wanted to make Poland a "Pole free zone?"

Funny, Poland might be homophobic, but a lot of the guys I met from the UK weren't opposed to at least giving guy on guy action a college try. They were all under 25, macho, fun, and basically British enough. Get them one-on-one and enough were at least curious about guy-on-guy action. Damn, when Polish guys are hot they are HOT. Most are not.

Get them while young, they hit a wall quick. I wanted to visit Poland next year, but I will have to scratch that off my list as well. Sad. I'll just head back to the UK and get their immigrant family members.