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These B-list stars surpassed their A-list rivals

It's always fascinating when a B-list star equals, or even surpasses, the fame of their A-list rival as they get older. They accomplish this through hard work and/or landing a prime role later in their careers. Here are some examples:

Barbra Streisand will always remain the superior star because of her legendary early career, but Bette Midler and Cher have surpassed her in success in the last 20 years. Both of them are prolific workhorses while Barbra has become lazy and increasingly neurotic with her work habits. If you don't keep your face in front of the public, they quickly forget about you no matter how big a star you are.

Joan Collins is a bigger star today than Elizabeth Taylor was at the time of her death. Even though Taylor's early career was vastly superior to Collins's C-list early career, that all changed when Joan landed the role of Alexis on Dynasty. She literally became Taylor's equal overnight. Collins's death will probably be a bigger deal than Taylor's was.

Joan Rivers became a bigger star than Johnny Carson. Carson was mostly forgotten when he died, but Joan was still beloved and famous. Her death was a much bigger deal than Carson's.

Bea Arthur and Angela Lansbury did Mame together on Broadway and were lifelong friends. Bea became a huge TV star when she starred in Maude and later on in Golden Girls. However, Lansbury became the bigger and more beloved star when she starred in Murder, She Wrote.

The most shocking example would be Betty White and Mary Tyler Moore. Who would have ever guessed that Betty would become a much bigger star than Mary? Betty is much, much bigger than MTM was at the time of her death. You can also add Valerie Harper into the equation.

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by Anonymousreply 238August 4, 2020 10:15 PM

This is insane. All of these stars are/were (still) huge. We remember them all.

by Anonymousreply 1July 26, 2020 6:35 PM

While Joan Collins is and always has been fabulous, at no point has her fame even come close to that of Elizabeth Taylor.

I would also argue that Bea and Angela had similar levels of fame with Angela having a slight lead due to her Disney movies.

by Anonymousreply 2July 26, 2020 6:35 PM

Johnny Carson had the number one nightly show in America for over 30 years. To compare his fame to Joan Rivers is insane. He was a private person. Joan owed everything to him, as she has stated in interviews.

by Anonymousreply 3July 26, 2020 6:47 PM

Carson went out on top. Rivers became a laughingstock. She never became a bigger star and she was never beloved. Perhaps in her earlier Carson days she was a loved comedian, but her later days showed her to be a bitter, hateful woman. Not beloved.

by Anonymousreply 4July 26, 2020 6:50 PM

Why do these stars have to "compete" with one another as to who is most remembered, most famous, most successful, etc.? You are so inane, OP.

by Anonymousreply 5July 26, 2020 6:51 PM

Your hypothesis is deeply flawed, OP. But thanks for playing.

by Anonymousreply 6July 26, 2020 6:51 PM

OP, what the hell are you talking about? ...one too many mimosas with brunch.

by Anonymousreply 7July 26, 2020 6:59 PM

Kardasian/Hilton

by Anonymousreply 8July 26, 2020 7:08 PM

[quote]Barbra Streisand will always remain the superior star because of her legendary early career, but Bette Midler and Cher have surpassed her in success in the last 20 years

That is because Streisand essentially dropped out after "Lentil." Sure she did lots of work but nothing high profile and since that was her apex, the thing she wanted to do most, she decided to pull back.

by Anonymousreply 9July 26, 2020 7:19 PM

Carson is not known to any young people under 35, Rivers still is. Over all Johnny dropped out of sight and that is why he is unknown.

Just like Jo Stafford who was the biggest female singer of the first half of the 20th century and the biggest female singer up to 1955. Who knew Jo Stafford when she died in the 2010s? Almost no one, because she just faded away.

by Anonymousreply 10July 26, 2020 7:21 PM

Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk.

by Anonymousreply 11July 26, 2020 7:22 PM

No-one under 40 will have even seen an Elizabeth Taylor film but they’ll know who Joan Collins is.

by Anonymousreply 12July 26, 2020 7:24 PM

No one under 40 knows Joan Collins either. Dynasty was the 80s.

by Anonymousreply 13July 26, 2020 7:27 PM

Famous right now OP or in general? Famous for millennials? Your thread description is a mess.

by Anonymousreply 14July 26, 2020 7:27 PM

R12 Oh please, plenty of people under 40 know who Elizabeth Taylor. And they've probably seen at least ONE of her films: The Flintstones film.

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by Anonymousreply 15July 26, 2020 7:27 PM

"Joan Collins is a bigger star today than Elizabeth Taylor was at the time of her death. Even though Taylor's early career was vastly superior to Collins's C-list early career, that all changed when Joan landed the role of Alexis on Dynasty. She literally became Taylor's equal overnight. Collins's death will probably be a bigger deal than Taylor's was."

Bitch, you done lost yo mind.

by Anonymousreply 16July 26, 2020 7:29 PM

Barbra Streisand doesn’t have to prove shit to anyone.

by Anonymousreply 17July 26, 2020 7:31 PM

R13 I’m under 40 and watched Dynasty in the 80s. The only memory I have of Elizabeth Taylor was that she was grossly overweight and hung out with Michael Jackson.

by Anonymousreply 18July 26, 2020 7:33 PM

OP is confusing fame with familiarity. Television stars and performers of any kind who appeared on television a lot in the late 20th century became more familiar to the public because everyone watched the same few networks in those days. But that are not more famous. Anyone who thinks Joan Collins is or ever was more famous than Elizabeth Taylor has a pretty skewed view of fame.

I can't imagine what the person who thinks Jo Stafford was "the biggest female singer of the 20th century" is smoking. Jo was great, but she was one of many popular female singers of the era.

by Anonymousreply 19July 26, 2020 7:34 PM

R17 is Jason Gould looking for a raise in his allowance.

by Anonymousreply 20July 26, 2020 7:37 PM

OP, neither Bette nor Cher have surpassed Streisand in the last 20 years. The 3 films Streisand made all made a bundle (even if not so good) the Focker movies made her a small fortune- her CDs have charted #1 and her arena concerts sell outs, indeed setting individual arena records. Dunno what rock you’re under.

by Anonymousreply 21July 26, 2020 7:39 PM

Taylor's association with Jackson in the 80s was bigger than Collins Dynasty.

by Anonymousreply 22July 26, 2020 7:40 PM

Call me when Joan Collins has an equivalent iconic photo!

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by Anonymousreply 23July 26, 2020 7:48 PM

Two old down low gays and their hags. They should've done a Golden Girls type sitcom together.

by Anonymousreply 24July 26, 2020 7:54 PM

Who would have thought Kelsey Grammer and Woody Harrelson would be the two biggest names to come out of Cheers and have bigger and more lucrative careers than Shelley Long, Ted Danson and Kirstie Alley.

And I know Ted Danson still works a lot (and in some very good stuff) but he never had a Frasier. And more people know who Woody Harrelson is.

by Anonymousreply 25July 26, 2020 8:32 PM

[quote]While Joan Collins is and always has been fabulous, at no point has her fame even come close to that of Elizabeth Taylor.

You're totally wrong. If you asked 100 people on the street, more of them would know Joan Collins and Dynasty than Liz Taylor. I can guarantee you that. Taylor was only famous for her perfumes the last 30 years of her life. Joan was also prettier.

No one under 40 even knows who Johnny Carson is today, but most people still know Joan Rivers because of QVC and her red carpet appearances. She single-handedly made the Oscars and other awards shows must-watch TV for the current generations.

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by Anonymousreply 26July 26, 2020 8:35 PM

[quote]Barbra Streisand will always remain the superior star because of her legendary early career, but Bette Midler

Hmm. Disagree.

[quote]Joan Collins is a bigger star today than Elizabeth Taylor was at the time of her death. Even though Taylor's early career was vastly superior to Collins's C-list early career, that all changed when Joan landed the role of Alexis on Dynasty. She literally became Taylor's equal overnight. Collins's death will probably be a bigger deal than Taylor's was.

Yes, this is true.

by Anonymousreply 27July 26, 2020 8:39 PM

R26 oh and I agree totally about Joan Rivers but honestly I don’t think young people know who Joan Collins or Eliz Taylor are.

But freaking 10 year olds know who Betty White is, so that one is definitely true.

by Anonymousreply 28July 26, 2020 8:40 PM

Johnny Galecki showed his castmates from Roseanne a thing or two, didn't he?

by Anonymousreply 29July 26, 2020 8:49 PM

Elizabeth Taylor and AIDS go together like milk and cereal. People are still aware of her. Joan Collins more famous than Elizabeth Taylor? OP, you're just silly.

by Anonymousreply 30July 26, 2020 8:54 PM

I rarely hear of AIDS these days, let alone Taylor's charitable contributions to it.

by Anonymousreply 31July 26, 2020 8:58 PM

Kathy Griffin passed Joan Rivers near the end of her life. And Joan was livid about it.

by Anonymousreply 32July 26, 2020 9:05 PM

People will always remember who Liz Taylor is due to Lindsay Lohan's iconic portrayal of her in Liz & Dick.

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by Anonymousreply 33July 26, 2020 9:07 PM

too much math in this thread

by Anonymousreply 34July 26, 2020 9:26 PM

Joan Rivers is already forgotten. Her red carpet hosting were memorable only because she continually messed everything up and she became a joke. The idea that she's remembered is funnier than anything she said in the last ten years of her career..

by Anonymousreply 35July 26, 2020 9:29 PM

It's an interesting premise, but one predicated primarily on life span, going by many of the examples.

If not "outlived," I might say that the surpassers more "worked steadily."

by Anonymousreply 36July 26, 2020 9:49 PM

Taylor’s legitimate career was over by the end of the ‘60s. She didn’t work much from the eighties on.

How big a star she is to you might depend on when you were born.

by Anonymousreply 37July 26, 2020 9:55 PM

life is not a competition. there are no rankings. Lists of "top ten" anything are bullshit created for clicks or views. Stop trying to judge who was bigger, more important, famous, or successful. If you're having the debate or thinking of including them on a list, they've already succeeded 1000x more than most.

by Anonymousreply 38July 26, 2020 10:02 PM

This is a very stupid thread. It seems OP's point is that some people outlived others? Something like that.

by Anonymousreply 39July 26, 2020 10:09 PM

Who would have thought that Patti LaBelle would become more famous and beloved by the public than her rivals Diana Ross and Dionne Warwick? Young people today don't even know who Dionne and Diana are anymore, but everybody knows and loves Patti. I think Patti even has more money than both of them.

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by Anonymousreply 40July 26, 2020 10:16 PM

R40, everybody knows Patti’s macaroni and cheese.

by Anonymousreply 41July 26, 2020 10:18 PM

R40 is that Gladys on the left? It's not Diana.

Anyway I love Patti but comparing her to Diana or Dionne is dumb.

by Anonymousreply 42July 26, 2020 10:20 PM

OP is clearly an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 43July 26, 2020 10:20 PM

Young people do NOT know or care about Patti.

by Anonymousreply 44July 26, 2020 10:20 PM

Diana Ross is a good one. I doubt most people in their 20s would know who she is.

by Anonymousreply 45July 26, 2020 10:21 PM

Some stars peak in their twenties then go on to live for another six decades.

Some peak in their forties and live another two.

That context matters when it comes to how big they are at the time of their deaths.

by Anonymousreply 46July 26, 2020 10:26 PM

Patti LuPone overtook Bernie Peters in the last decade.

by Anonymousreply 47July 26, 2020 10:27 PM

Olivia and Joan were of roughly equal stature on DL a decade ago, but Olivia became a meme since then and so her death seems like a bigger deal now that Joan’s did.

by Anonymousreply 48July 26, 2020 10:27 PM

Most people under 30 have no idea who any of the people we are talking about might be.

by Anonymousreply 49July 26, 2020 10:28 PM

Streisand is unlikely to ever do anything of note again. Bitch is almost 80

by Anonymousreply 50July 26, 2020 10:30 PM

Do people under thirty even know who Paris Hilton is? Or do they only know Kim?

by Anonymousreply 51July 26, 2020 10:31 PM

I can't remember the last relevant thing Britney, Christina, or Jessica Simpson have done, whereas Mandy Moore is now a recent Emmy and Golden Globe nominee and has 2 Screen Actor's Guild Awards.

by Anonymousreply 52July 26, 2020 10:31 PM

Sandy bullock leap frogged over Julia Roberts in the late naughts

by Anonymousreply 53July 26, 2020 11:31 PM

B*tch, Bette Midler is A-list!

by Anonymousreply 54July 26, 2020 11:56 PM

R28, how are you defining “young people”? 12-year-olds probably don’t know who Elizabeth Taylor was, but I’m sure there are quite a few 25-year-olds who have at least heard the name and know she was a movie star. I don’t think you can generalize that the vast majority of people in their 20s know nothing of 20th century popular culture.

by Anonymousreply 55July 27, 2020 1:05 AM

[quote] Who would have ever guessed that Betty would become a much bigger star than Mary? Betty is much, much bigger than MTM was at the time of her death.

At the time of her death, yes. But Betty White has NEVER been as big as MTM was in the 70s. Very few people have been.

by Anonymousreply 56July 27, 2020 1:11 AM

George Clooney and Roseanne.

by Anonymousreply 57July 27, 2020 1:14 AM

Betty White is much more well-known today than MTM.

by Anonymousreply 58July 27, 2020 2:34 AM

"I’m under 40 and watched Dynasty in the 80s"

You watched Dynasty when you were 6?!

by Anonymousreply 59July 27, 2020 2:38 AM

Buck never would have known who Betty White is.

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by Anonymousreply 60July 27, 2020 3:49 AM

I had to look up r60's quote, which I've seen a lot of DL. You'd have to be in your 50s to get it.

by Anonymousreply 61July 27, 2020 3:55 AM

Buck would have never married DL icon Deb Winger.

by Anonymousreply 62July 27, 2020 3:55 AM

Buck would have never married DL icon Deb Winger.

by Anonymousreply 63July 27, 2020 3:55 AM

Mary Tyler Moore is in a league of her own starring in two of the most popular and critically successful television shows of all time: The Dick van Dyke Show and The Mary Tyler Moore Show.

Just because Mary has died and Betty White is still alive (and I love Betty), but it doesn’t mean that Betty has surpassed Mary in stature. And just because a 20-year old may know of Betty but doesn’t really know Mary today doesn’t mean Betty’s star is larger. It just means that Betty is still alive. But trust me, as soon as Betty dies, her star power will fade quickly. It won’t mean she wasn’t a star; it just means she’s not in the public eye any longer and people will slowly forget unless you were a fan of Betty’s two biggest shows in which she starred, The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Golden Girls.

Personally, when I think of Betty White, I think of her character of Sue Ann Nivens on The Mary Tyler Moore Show because I loved that show, and I was not really much of a fan of Golden Girls. As a result in my mind, Mary was and always will be the bigger star. It was Mary’s show, she was the central character, and everything revolved around her. I love Betty White; she was hilarious, but she was always a supporting character on MTM. I never even think of the Golden Girls where Betty’s character was just dumb and unappealing to me. For me, Betty lessened her star power with that dumb Rose character on GG. Mary Tyler Moore will forever remain the bigger star.

by Anonymousreply 64July 27, 2020 5:20 AM

The concept of this thread doesn't make sense to me. Are we to argue that Mamie Van Doren surpassed Marilyn Monroe because she's still alive?

by Anonymousreply 65July 27, 2020 5:24 AM

This thread weakly but loosely is like “So and so is the poor man’s _______ fill in the blank.” But yet it isn’t really the same thing.

by Anonymousreply 66July 27, 2020 5:25 AM

The Golden Girls is one of the most popular tv shows of all time, it's still on tv daily and teenagers watch it. It's a big part of pop culture. It's far more popular than the MTM show, which most people under 50 have never seen.

by Anonymousreply 67July 27, 2020 5:32 AM

Nobody under 3 knows who Olivia de Havilland was, so what's fame? What's A-list? What's B? All in the mind.

by Anonymousreply 68July 27, 2020 5:33 AM

Just because someone young knows who a particular star is, doesn’t mean that star is bigger than someone else.

Elizabeth Taylor was an enormous star. Joan Collins is an enormous star. It’s just one hit it big very early on, and the other hit it big a bit later. If you were movie buff, then you will surely know Elizabeth. If you came of age and were a fan of nighttime TV serial stories of the 1980s, the you are probably a fan of Joan. The bottom line is that Elizabeth is probably the bigger star, but there’s not really a competition between she and Joan. They have similarities, but they’re also different. And one outlived the other, but what does that prove?

by Anonymousreply 69July 27, 2020 5:36 AM

R67. The Mary Tyler Moore Show was huge...just as big if not bigger than the Golden Girls. In the ‘80s, MTM used to be on in reruns and played back-to-back episodes every night 6:30-7:30pm for the longest time. Mary was part of pop culture as was the entire cast and all the spinoff shows that happened as a result of MTM.

Then the Golden Girls came along, another very popular show, not my favorite, but very popular nonetheless. Then television expanded and there were more networks that started airing reruns. So GG reruns aired frequently. Just because the two shows came along in different eras doesn’t mean one had more of an impact. Someone under 40 watches what’s available for the time in which they were consuming television. Is one a bigger hit? Perhaps. Did one have a bigger cultural impact? Yes. So you often view the show based on when you grew up or cane of age. In another five years , the GG will too be passé and people under 40 won’t know them either. But you’ll still be defending GG because It means something to you, which is fine. But it won’t mean much to tomorrow’s 30 year old.

by Anonymousreply 70July 27, 2020 5:59 AM

There is no world in which Cher or Bette Midler are B-list stars.

Actually, Barbra, Bette and Cher all started off within a few years of each other. Barbra had a bit of a head start since she is slightly older than Bette and Cher. They were almost all stars from the very beginning of their careers. They had a few off years now and then, but they all remained pretty big even if one works less than another now. Each had their impact, and you can say who you think is the bigger star, but I never compared them to each other particularly since each one is so different than the other.

Liza is another one. In her heyday, no one surpassed Liza on stage. She was an electrifying performer for many, many years. Now she doesn’t work on stage, but her star power and talent were enormous even if a 30-year old doesn’t know her these days. Is Lady Gaga bigger than Liza? No. She’s just more current with a younger generation, and even Gaga’s star is fading.

by Anonymousreply 71July 27, 2020 6:19 AM

R61, or have seen a movie that was made before your movie-watching life began. From some of these posts, you'd think no one ever watched an old (to them) movie or television show. Do you also have to look up "frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" or "my father made him an offer he couldn't refuse"?

by Anonymousreply 72July 27, 2020 8:18 AM

r71, good post. But Gaga is currently one of the biggest female stars in the world. Her star was fading, but it’s back in full shine.

by Anonymousreply 73July 27, 2020 9:25 AM

[quote] Each had their impact, and you can say who you think is the bigger star, but I never compared them to each other particularly since each one is so different than the other.

Barbra and Cher are different.

But Barbra and Bette aren’t. Bette always modelled her career on Barbra’s. They followed similar trajectories, But Bette’s never reached the same heights.

by Anonymousreply 74July 27, 2020 9:30 AM

The MTM show is really in the dustbin of history now. Golden Girls is probably even more popular than it was 30 years ago. Hell, when was the last time you saw Buzzfeed stories about MTM?

by Anonymousreply 75July 27, 2020 2:38 PM

R75 Well, if Buzzfeed wrote about it, it must be famous!

OP, this was a stupid, stupid thread. You are comparing actors who are sort of connected and then claiming one’s star grew at the expense of another one.

And like many have stated, you are confusing current visibility with fame and impact. Fame is fleeting; not everyone is the same level of important their whole career or after death. That does not mean they at one time were not huge and just because someone is no longer in the public eye does not mean they are washed up.

More Zoomers now can identify Belle Elish and Black Pink than they can Arethra Franklin. Does that mean they are more impactful? More famous?

Joan Collins has camp value. She was never anywhere Liz Taylor. Liz Taylor will go down in history. Joan Collins as a foot note.

by Anonymousreply 76July 27, 2020 3:17 PM

R75 Well, if Buzzfeed wrote about it, it must be famous!

OP, this was a stupid, stupid thread. You are comparing actors who are sort of connected and then claiming one’s star grew at the expense of another one.

And like many have stated, you are confusing current visibility with fame and impact. Fame is fleeting; not everyone is the same level of important their whole career or after death. That does not mean they at one time were not huge and just because someone is no longer in the public eye does not mean they are washed up.

More Zoomers now can identify Belle Elish and Black Pink than they can Arethra Franklin. Does that mean they are more impactful? More famous?

Joan Collins has camp value. She was never anywhere Liz Taylor. Liz Taylor will go down in history. Joan Collins as a foot note.

by Anonymousreply 77July 27, 2020 3:17 PM

R75, MTM wasn't even really a hit in its first syndication run. It never had the sort of syndication power of GG or ILL. But that's true of most of those 70s sitcoms like AITF and Maude. There is a certain venerable quality about the series but I believe it's more manufactured by writers who were influenced by it and do stories about it rather than plain old TV watchers.

by Anonymousreply 78July 27, 2020 3:17 PM

[quote]Well, if Buzzfeed wrote about it, it must be famous!

What a very popular publishes is totally relevant.

[quote]Joan Collins has camp value. She was never anywhere Liz Taylor. Liz Taylor will go down in history. Joan Collins as a foot note.

Anyone who knows who is one is these days will know who the other is. And Taylor could be just as camp as Collins.

by Anonymousreply 79July 27, 2020 3:25 PM

[quote][R75], MTM wasn't even really a hit in its first syndication run. It never had the sort of syndication power of GG or ILL. But that's true of most of those 70s sitcoms like AITF and Maude. There is a certain venerable quality about the series but I believe it's more manufactured by writers who were influenced by it and do stories about it rather than plain old TV watchers.

A lot of '70s sitcoms seem very of their era. That's when sitcoms were at their most 'topical' and politically interested. That's also partly why something like DESIGNING WOMEN hasn't translated to today like the THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

by Anonymousreply 80July 27, 2020 3:27 PM

Designing Women and Murphy Brown were both too topical to translate to modern audiences. Hell, I was around back then and I've caught a few reruns of both in the last few years and even I couldn't remember some of the references.

by Anonymousreply 81July 27, 2020 3:32 PM

R50 She had sold out tour last year, including more than 65,000 tickets sold for Hyde Park event

by Anonymousreply 82July 27, 2020 3:34 PM

Old Boomers are Streisand's audience. She's never been a big deal to younger generations.

by Anonymousreply 83July 27, 2020 3:36 PM

R83 You should have seen how many young people there were in Hyde Park. Yes, it was a special concert and many wanted to see her one more time or just once. Young people might not listen to her music but many know her name and wanted to pay a lot to see her. She is a legend.

by Anonymousreply 84July 27, 2020 3:40 PM

It's obvious that Streisand can't get that many younger people because she hasn't had a mainstream hit in decades. She made specific attempts to do that during the 70s, 80s and even 90s. A woman of her age can't do a song like Arianna Grande or Halsey and her style of singing wouldn't translate. A great star who will endure but she's damn old.

by Anonymousreply 85July 27, 2020 4:11 PM

Barbra's always been a little less interested in being relevant than Cher; and is more secure in her stature than Midler.

It helps that she's much richer than both.

by Anonymousreply 86July 27, 2020 4:17 PM

Oh. I quoted the wrong part of OP's post earlier and made the opposite of the point I wanted to make.

Grr.

Anyway: Barbra > Bette

by Anonymousreply 87July 27, 2020 4:27 PM

R86, not necessarily. She's tried rock (Butterfly and ASIB) and disco (Main Event No More Tears) and when she went to the Gibbs, she got her last real mainstream pop success. She's a smart businesswoman and understood to try what was successful at the time. I can't think of the last time a 70 yo woman had a big hit on the charts.

by Anonymousreply 88July 27, 2020 4:32 PM

It's crazy how both Bea Arthur and Angela Lansbury didn't become stars until later in life. I think Bea was in her 40s when she got Maude, and Angela was unknown until Murder, She Wrote.

I can't decide whether Bea or Angela is the bigger star today?

by Anonymousreply 89July 27, 2020 4:34 PM

Lucille Ball surpassed a lot of the actresses she was competing for roles with as a 40s starlet

by Anonymousreply 90July 27, 2020 4:36 PM

Yes, R88, but she had mostly abandoned trying to be current by the mid-eighties.

That's when she was doing Yentl and The Broadway Album.

All of Cher's work from the same time on has been done with more an eye of what's relevant.

by Anonymousreply 91July 27, 2020 4:37 PM

Tina Turner was not a big deal when she was younger and never made much money. Then in her 40s she became far bigger than her peers, like Diana Ross, Aretha, Dionne, Gladys, etc.

Tina was always a hard-worker through the years(because she had to be) and it eventually paid off.

by Anonymousreply 92July 27, 2020 4:39 PM

Well, TCM is on 7/28 " showing "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf."

So there goes that argument, OP.

by Anonymousreply 93July 27, 2020 4:46 PM

Yes, TCM.

So there goes your 'argument', R93.

by Anonymousreply 94July 27, 2020 4:52 PM

In my opinion, the original cast of Designing Women was far and away a better, more entertaining, well-written and acted show than Golden Girls. I loved Designing Women. Golden Girls never had the impact with me. It was a good show with a talented cast, but Designing Women was far superior. Designing Women was must-see TV; Golden Girls was hit or miss. If I watched, it was fine, but if I missed it, I never gave it another thought.

I know I’m going to get dragged for this post, but Golden Girls just doesn’t have a prominent place in my head or heart the way Designing Women does and lasts to this day.

by Anonymousreply 95July 27, 2020 5:09 PM

^^and yes, I’m a gay male.

by Anonymousreply 96July 27, 2020 5:11 PM

The biggest difference between Elizabeth Taylor and Joan Collins is that Taylor was immensely wealthy.

Most of Joan Collins assets are tied up in property so she has to keep doing theatre tours and selling QVC shite at 87 to keep the wolf from the door.

by Anonymousreply 97July 27, 2020 5:15 PM

Yes, Taylor was lucky to have things her marriage to Richard Todd and Cleopatra (for which she actually made closer to seven million dollars than her official one million dollar salary -- all in real terms).

Joan was only making forty thousand dollars an episode when Dynasty was at its peak. TV actors were much more lowly paid back then. I don't blame her for going on strike the following year for a raise.

by Anonymousreply 98July 27, 2020 5:20 PM

Joan was the highest paid actress on television in the '80s. Once Dynasty went off air I believe Angela Lansbury overtook her, and she held that position until MSW was cancelled.

by Anonymousreply 99July 27, 2020 5:22 PM

Angela was more famous before Mame but maybe Bea was more famous die to "Maude".

by Anonymousreply 100July 27, 2020 5:22 PM

By the time Mame was being filmed Broadway has ceased to be relevant to the average American in the way television was.

That's why it was so stupid of Angie to bemoan how it was made with Lucille Ball.

It could never have been made with anyone other than Lucille Ball.

by Anonymousreply 101July 27, 2020 5:24 PM

Scientologist Elisabeth Moss that passed the entire Mad Men cast.

by Anonymousreply 102July 27, 2020 5:28 PM

Chrissy Metz has overtaken Christina Hendricks.

by Anonymousreply 103July 27, 2020 5:30 PM

R101 fuck off, any number of stars could have made "Mame" work much better than that croaking frog Lucy.

And on no planet is Joan Collins anywhere approaching Liz Taylor's fame and legacy. Collins' last role of note was a cameo in a Miss Marple episode.

by Anonymousreply 104July 27, 2020 5:32 PM

Barbra Streisand was considered grandma music 30 years ago. Gen X gays have never been into her, except for Jewish guys in the NYC metro area. We were all about Madonna. Nobody else even came close to her popularity with Gen X gays.

by Anonymousreply 105July 27, 2020 5:32 PM

The point was, R104, that none of them could have gotten a film greenlit.

And Joan Collins still stays busy in the public eye, which Taylor had mostly stopped doing for the two decades before her death.

by Anonymousreply 106July 27, 2020 5:33 PM

R106 I'm sure lots of other actresses could have got it greenlit and Ball only got the part because she snapped up the musucal's rights.

by Anonymousreply 107July 27, 2020 5:36 PM

[quote]I'm sure lots of other actresses could have got it greenlit

Really? Which ones?

by Anonymousreply 108July 27, 2020 5:37 PM

None of this is true or even makes sense. It's like saying Jerry Van Dyke was on the Judy Garland Show, but her show flopped, while he ended up on Coach and got 4 Emmy nominations. Because who remembers her now?

by Anonymousreply 109July 27, 2020 5:37 PM

Don't forget that I am big. It's the pictures that have gotten small.

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by Anonymousreply 110July 27, 2020 5:38 PM

The Judy Garland Show might've only had one season, but Judy's place is modern pop culture is from TWOO not her show.

So, no, R109.

by Anonymousreply 111July 27, 2020 5:39 PM

R109. Who remembers Judy Garland? Is that what you’re foolishly asking?

Answer: The entire fucking world!

by Anonymousreply 112July 27, 2020 5:41 PM

Has Markle (truly D-list) surpassed Middleton?

by Anonymousreply 113July 27, 2020 5:43 PM

R111, R112 I guess my meaning, and sarcasm, which I thought was clear, was not clear. I was making an analogy to say this thread is ridiculous. As in, saying Joan Collins surpassed Elizabeth Taylor is as silly as it would be to say Jerry Van Dyke surpassed Judy Garland.

by Anonymousreply 114July 27, 2020 5:46 PM

[quote]As in, saying Joan Collins surpassed Elizabeth Taylor is as silly as it would be to say Jerry Van Dyke surpassed Judy Garland.

No, that's not comparable.

by Anonymousreply 115July 27, 2020 5:48 PM

R115 Who gives a shit? I wasn't saying no one remembers Judy Garland, that was the point.

by Anonymousreply 116July 27, 2020 5:49 PM

You absolutely could make an argument that Collins surpassed Taylor. You could never say that about Jerry Van Dyke and Judy.

Your comparison is lousy.

by Anonymousreply 117July 27, 2020 5:52 PM

[quote]That's why it was so stupid of Angie to bemoan how it was made with Lucille Ball.

Bedknobs & Broomsticks was a big flop, so there's no way they would have given Mame to Lansbury.

by Anonymousreply 118July 27, 2020 8:59 PM

I doubt very much that the Joan Collins collection would realize the fortune that the Elizabeth Taylor auction did for Christie's and her children after she died. Even a 14-carat gold safety pin fetched over $5k. Not because it was gold. But because it once belonged to Elizabeth Taylor.

by Anonymousreply 119July 27, 2020 9:03 PM

Joan Collins jewels are largely paste, the most solvent husband she ever had was Anthony Newley (and he wasn't rich), they divorced 50 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 120July 27, 2020 9:13 PM

[quote] Not because it was gold. But because it once belonged to Elizabeth Taylor.

Hmm. I’m skeptical.

by Anonymousreply 121July 27, 2020 9:56 PM

Warren Beatty was very wealthy. Much more so than Anthony Newley.

by Anonymousreply 122July 27, 2020 10:53 PM

MTM is one of the great shows but it never did all that well in reruns and their DVD sales were terrible. Very few shows live on generation after generation after generation and very few shows from before say 20 years ago have retained that kind of staying power with all age groups. And it’s not necessarily a reflection of how good a show is. ILL (which I could never stand) , The Golden Girls, and Three’s Company live on forever and ever. Friends will be like that too.

by Anonymousreply 123July 27, 2020 10:54 PM

R122 Joan never married him though and aborted their child, with his consent.

by Anonymousreply 124July 27, 2020 11:19 PM

OP; you are in backwards land.

by Anonymousreply 125July 27, 2020 11:22 PM

R123, MTM show was perhaps too cerebral for most audiences?

Most people don't want to think too much when they watch a sitcom. They want a warmth and familiarity with some laughs thrown in. I wouldn't describe the MTM show as warm.

by Anonymousreply 126July 28, 2020 12:10 AM

MTM would be classed as a Comedy/Drama now as we all live in an 'Idiocracy'.

by Anonymousreply 127July 28, 2020 12:16 AM

R126, MTM was very warm. It’s the ones since that were cold, such as Seinfeld and 30 Rock.

by Anonymousreply 128July 28, 2020 12:20 AM

[quote]MTM is one of the great shows but it never did all that well in reruns and their DVD sales were terrible.

I don't know what you watched, but MTM was on in reruns for years, back-to-back two episodes every night 6:30-7:30pm. MTM was my all-time favorite, but it depicted the '70s, and I think after a while, people just move on. One of the few sitcoms that was older but one that has lasted is I Love Lucy, but nothing else that old is still around with any mass popularity. The shows from the '80s and '90s still seem relevant, but even those will fade in another five years or so.

There are plenty of MTM full shows on YouTube. Every once in a while i get hooked watching an episode, and then a couple of hours later, I'm still sitting here watching good ol' Mary and the gang again and again. The writing and acting is still great.

by Anonymousreply 129July 28, 2020 1:01 AM

Keep in mind that when many reruns of 70s and 80s shows, there wasn't the proliferation of networks that we have now. I think MTM reruns aired on local channels, and they were very popular. However, unless you were a diehard fan, most people had seen them--and they were from another era. Then years later, Nick at Night, TV Land started popping up. Shows like MTM were brought back in reruns, but by then, more current shows in reruns from the 80s and 90s took their place, and the 70s shows largely faded. I would watch MTM forever, but I'm a unique diehard fan.

by Anonymousreply 130July 28, 2020 1:09 AM

I Love Lucy's enduring popularity is pretty amazing. As the other poster said, no other show from that era is really known today, except perhaps the Honeymooners. But the Honeymooners has never been as popular. I Love Lucy was something special.

How many people today even know who Jack Benny, Sid Ceasar or even Milton Berle were?

by Anonymousreply 131July 28, 2020 1:13 AM

Bewitched reruns always get way more viewers than any of the 'Lucy' shows here in the UK.

Though so do 'Happy Days' and 'I Dream of Jeanie'. Laverne and Shirley is also a bit cult hit here (with people of a certain age).

by Anonymousreply 132July 28, 2020 1:20 AM

^^big not 'bit'^^

by Anonymousreply 133July 28, 2020 1:21 AM

r132, what other US shows are big over there?

by Anonymousreply 134July 28, 2020 1:22 AM

R134 Apart from Friends and Frasier almost nothing beyond the early 90's on terrestrial TV. The Golden Girls has just had a repeat run though. Everyone loves 'The Beverly Hillbillies'. A lot of US shows like 'Everybody Loves Raymond' are used as early morning filler.

We also pretty much hate all of the remakes of classic British shows like 'Sanford and Son (Steptoe and Son), Three's Company (Man about The House) and 'All in The Family' (Till'Death Do Us Part).

I personally quite like US procedural drama like CSI, Law and Order type shows.

On Cable/Satellite it's just the usual Game of Thrones etc, which was essentially a British production.

by Anonymousreply 135July 28, 2020 1:38 AM

[quote]How many people today even know who Jack Benny, Sid Ceasar or even Milton Berle were?

KInd of a shame, because when I was in high school some of us used to watch Jack Benny reruns and a lot of them were hilarious. The radio shows were super funny as well.

[quote]MTM show was perhaps too cerebral for most audiences? Most people don't want to think too much when they watch a sitcom.

Um, what? Cerebral? Were we such intellectuals in the 70s when this show was a huge hit?

by Anonymousreply 136July 28, 2020 1:45 AM

[quote] MTM show was perhaps too cerebral for most audiences?

Nah. I wouldn't say that about MTM. I'd say Lou Grant was ahead of its time and probably too cerebral even for TV viewers in the 70s.

by Anonymousreply 137July 28, 2020 2:37 AM

Gayle King and Oprah

by Anonymousreply 138July 28, 2020 3:11 AM

Gayle did not surpass Oprah

by Anonymousreply 139July 28, 2020 3:12 AM

John Lewis and Martin Luther king

by Anonymousreply 140July 28, 2020 3:14 AM

I think that Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears kind of fall into this dynamic. Though Britney is more beloved and iconic, her life is also more tragic with her guardianships and #FreeBritney and nonstop work schedule and whatnot. Meanwhile Jessica has made pretty much the same money by selling clothes in Kmart or wherever plus she got to have plenty of kids and get fat and enjoy her life.

Britney will be remembered for longer but I think Jessica will have the better life.

by Anonymousreply 141July 28, 2020 4:16 AM

R40, Classic. Ppl like you make DL great.

by Anonymousreply 142July 28, 2020 4:25 AM

R141_ That's not what the OP said at all. Stick to the fkin post you cunt.

by Anonymousreply 143July 28, 2020 4:26 AM

This thread is dying and deserves a quick death! Kill it already!

by Anonymousreply 144July 28, 2020 4:59 AM

R8 had the only true example listed in this thread: Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton

by Anonymousreply 145July 28, 2020 5:11 AM

[quote]Friends will be like that too.

No, it won't. It's already headed into "what were we thinking" territory.

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by Anonymousreply 146July 28, 2020 5:13 AM

[quote] MTM is one of the great shows but it never did all that well in reruns and their DVD sales were terrible.

Don't blame me, I bought them. It's not my fault if you can lead a horse to water, or in this case ambrosia, but can't make him drink it.

by Anonymousreply 147July 28, 2020 5:14 AM

What's weird is that ILL has a lot of references younger kids won't get and the Hollywood episodes are loaded with "celebrities" that are forgotten. Yet, it remains an evergreen comedy.

by Anonymousreply 148July 28, 2020 5:15 AM

This thread is all over the place because it depends on what you mean by surpass. Popularity? Material wealth? Volume of work? Personal happiness and stability?

by Anonymousreply 149July 28, 2020 5:16 AM

[quote] What's weird is that ILL has a lot of references younger kids won't get and the Hollywood episodes are loaded with "celebrities" that are forgotten. Yet, it remains an evergreen comedy.

I have a lot of old shows in my collection, and that's one of the ones that gets the most and best responses from all generations, races, sexualities. I'm sure most of them couldn't tell you what show came on after it originally.

by Anonymousreply 150July 28, 2020 5:17 AM

R148. I Love Lucy works because basically it's about love, family, friends...things and situations to which everyone can relate. If a show gets too "inside or about current events," then it gets dated easily.

by Anonymousreply 151July 28, 2020 5:19 AM

[quote] You're totally wrong. If you asked 100 people on the street, more of them would know Joan Collins and Dynasty than Liz Taylor. I can guarantee you that.

Are you ok, dearheart? Can we call someone for you?

by Anonymousreply 152July 28, 2020 5:21 AM

There were a few years after Rhoda premiered when Valerie Harper was bigger than Mary Tyler Moore. It didn't last, but it was a real thing for awhile.

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by Anonymousreply 153July 28, 2020 5:22 AM

It's easier than ever to look up references you don't get with a quick internet search. Even some of the jokes on [italic]I Love Lucy[/italic] were references to then-current things like [italic]South Pacific[/italic] when it was on Broadway before it was a movie, and even to things that were already dated but still recognizable, such as the silent Ramon Novarro version of [italic]Ben-Hur[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 154July 28, 2020 5:22 AM

[quote] There were a few years after Rhoda premiered when Valerie Harper was bigger than Mary Tyler Moore. It didn't last, but it was a real thing for awhile.

There hadn't really been a Jewish family on TV since [italic]The Goldbergs[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 155July 28, 2020 5:23 AM

1995 Marcia and Jan Brady > more well-known than the original '70s Marcia and Jan.

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by Anonymousreply 156July 28, 2020 5:30 AM

Google:

“Elizabeth Taylor” gets 24,800,000 results.

“Joan Collins” gets 3,710,000 results.

But yes Joan Collins is MUCH MORE FAMOUS!

by Anonymousreply 157July 28, 2020 5:31 AM

Younger audiences don't know who William Holden or Van Johnson were but know their appearances on ILL. The fact that an appearance on a TV sitcom is a greater legacy for some is a real testament to the show.

We're coming up on Lucy's birthday and last year, theaters showed several of the colorized versions of the show. The one I went to in Marina Del Rey was sold out and there were people from kids to seniors there and all had a great time. Too bad something like that can't be done this year.

by Anonymousreply 158July 28, 2020 5:31 AM

More google:

Johnny Carson” 11,600,000 results.

“Joan Rivers” 7,930,000 results.

That despite Johnny retiring decades ago, and Joan continuing to work until her death a few years ago.

by Anonymousreply 159July 28, 2020 5:34 AM

R146 yeah not true, and one dumb article doesn’t prove it either. Your opinion and DL’s opinion (we love to shit on Friends here) has nothing to do with it.

There are just a few shows that happen to take off with each succeeding generation. There’s probably some kind of “comfort television “ factor involved and it’s usually pretty easy to predict going into the first cycle of reruns. GG despite being about 4 old broads — some of its biggest fans were always young kids. It’s not in the least surprising that it would become as ubiquitous as it has become. Friends (like it or not) is heading on that same path.

by Anonymousreply 160July 28, 2020 5:41 AM

Pretty much the entire cast of Mean Girls surpassed Lindsay Lohans career, even though Lohan was considered the star of the film at the time. Even Lizzy Kaplan who played the weird outcast wound up starring in a well regarded showtime series.

by Anonymousreply 161July 28, 2020 5:46 AM

R161 oh wow that’s a really good one!

by Anonymousreply 162July 28, 2020 5:52 AM

R162 Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 163July 28, 2020 5:57 AM

Every single one of OP's comparisons is laughably, howlingly wrong.

by Anonymousreply 164July 28, 2020 6:04 AM

I think the one OP is right about is Betty White over MTM.

by Anonymousreply 165July 28, 2020 6:12 AM

Oh I’ve actually got a pretty good one you guys:

AMC: Kelly Ripa >>> Susan Lucci.

by Anonymousreply 166July 28, 2020 6:22 AM

R98, What? And do you mean Mike Todd or Richard Burton?

by Anonymousreply 167July 28, 2020 6:36 AM

OP is confusing "lived longer" with "surpassed."

That Joan Collins is working at age 87 means nothing vis-a-vis the legend that is Elizabeth Taylor.

by Anonymousreply 168July 28, 2020 6:39 AM

Joan needs to get her azz on (new) Dynasty. She could be that (bad) show's THIRD Alexis.

by Anonymousreply 169July 28, 2020 6:45 AM

Neely O'Hara surpassed Helen Lawson.

by Anonymousreply 170July 28, 2020 2:17 PM

Joan Collins was bigger than Taylor in the ‘80s.

by Anonymousreply 171July 28, 2020 2:19 PM

Is Christine Baranski considered bigger than Cybil Shepherd?

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by Anonymousreply 172July 28, 2020 4:14 PM

R172, nope.

by Anonymousreply 173July 28, 2020 4:30 PM

Okay how about this... for silent film stars TODAY (and for people who are into film ONLY), I think Buster Keaton has definitely "surpassed" Chaplin and Harold Lloyd for "popularity" in modern times. However, I think Harold Lloyd was the biggest money maker at the time of the three, no? Eldergays, help me out.

by Anonymousreply 174July 29, 2020 1:15 AM

No, Chaplin is by far the biggest silent movie star. Harold Lloyd had a bit of a resurgence in the 1980's, but it's still Charlie Chaplin. Buster Keaton is a barely remembered footnote.

Chaplin was worth the equivalent of $400million by the time he died in 1977.

The estate has earned vastly more than that since his death by licensing his image.

by Anonymousreply 175July 29, 2020 1:54 AM

Lloyd and Keaton are known to film buffs....but I'd say Chaplin is by the best known to the general public

by Anonymousreply 176July 29, 2020 2:09 AM

I was A bigger star than Will. He surpassed me and now is caught up in entanglements.

by Anonymousreply 177July 29, 2020 2:18 AM

Joan Collins is Fab... but NEVER surpassed the biggest movie star of all time.. Elizabeth Taylor

by Anonymousreply 178July 29, 2020 2:23 AM

Are you surprised that Dolly Parton has surpassed both Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda's careers since starring in 9 to 5?

It was her first movie and she ended up stealing every scene from those two Oscar-nominated actresses. She became much more famous and successful than both of them combined.

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by Anonymousreply 179July 29, 2020 4:31 AM

Miss Kay Lenz is more iconic and legendary than her brief husband, David Cassidy.

by Anonymousreply 180July 29, 2020 4:35 AM

Kay who?

by Anonymousreply 181July 29, 2020 4:41 AM

Don't joke about that R181. Kay Lenz.

by Anonymousreply 182July 29, 2020 4:52 AM

Not completely what you're getting at but...

Faith Prince won the Tony. Nathan became the star. Nikki James won the Tony. Rannells and Gad became the stars.

by Anonymousreply 183July 29, 2020 5:24 AM

Also- when I was in high school, I went to a summer arts camp and lost out on all the roles to this one guy! He was extremely talented but it was upsetting. Ten years later, I made my Broadway debut and that "one guy" was a cater waiter at the opening night party. So never give up guys!

by Anonymousreply 184July 29, 2020 5:27 AM

People of my generation just saw Elizabeth Taylor as some strange woman that was friends with Michael Jackson. I can see how it would benefit some of these people to retire at their peak so they keep a good image of themselves in the public eye

by Anonymousreply 185July 29, 2020 5:31 AM

[quote]r10 Jo Stafford was the biggest female singer of the first half of the 20th century and the biggest female singer up to 1955.

I’ll take Darlene Edwards over Jo Stafford any day. Her musical stylings have brought me so much joy!

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by Anonymousreply 186July 29, 2020 5:32 AM

[quote]R185 People of my generation just saw Elizabeth Taylor as some fat woman

FTFY

by Anonymousreply 187July 29, 2020 5:34 AM

R160: No, it is not becoming a hit with younger generations, but a liability. And it was more than just one article. Someone edited a whole compilation of homophobic “jokes” and it was nearly an hour long. That show is one police shooting away from being canceled altogether. It is more than just that one article, and no it is not a fucking stupid article. And comparing it to a beloved classic such as [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] is not just delusional, it’s downright sexist as well.

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by Anonymousreply 188July 29, 2020 6:36 AM

No, Collins did surpass Liz in the ‘80s.

by Anonymousreply 189July 29, 2020 8:55 AM

R185 there was a LOT more to Taylor than a friendship with MJ and being fat. Why don’t you educate yourself by looking up the history of AMFAR or watching Suddenly, Last Summer?

by Anonymousreply 190July 29, 2020 9:14 AM

Yes, she was a star in the ‘50s and ‘60s, but for those who came of age in the ‘80s, she was their mother’s star.

by Anonymousreply 191July 29, 2020 10:01 AM

Taylor was the embodiment of all that Hollywood aspired to re its creation of the ultimate, premiere, apex movie Queen. It was all realized in Elizabeth Taylor. Go ahead - throw whomever you like in my face for comparison. It makes no difference. Taylor was the "golden one." This is why she will always be remembered.

by Anonymousreply 192July 29, 2020 5:22 PM

Taylor was only the biggest female movie star during the 1950s. She quickly faded after that. The only thing that kept her in the public eye in the 60s-70s was her tumultuous relationship with Richard Burton. She had been replaced in Hollywood by Streisand, Fonda and Dunaway.

Joan Collins was absolutely bigger than Taylor during the 80s. She was on the cover of every magazine and the #1 actress on TV. She was a cultural phenomenon during her Dynasty years. Taylor was invisible during that time.

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by Anonymousreply 193July 29, 2020 9:05 PM

[quote]Taylor was the embodiment of all that Hollywood aspired to re its creation of the ultimate, premiere, apex movie Queen. It was all realized in Elizabeth Taylor. Go ahead - throw whomever you like in my face for comparison. It makes no difference. Taylor was the "golden one." This is why she will always be remembered.

MARY!

by Anonymousreply 194July 29, 2020 9:21 PM

[quote]Taylor was the embodiment of all that Hollywood aspired to re its creation of the ultimate, premiere, apex movie Queen. It was all realized in Elizabeth Taylor. Go ahead - throw whomever you like in my face for comparison. It makes no difference. Taylor was the "golden one." This is why she will always be remembered.

Elizabeth was one of the most talented actresses ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay men were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles, and she theirs.

by Anonymousreply 195July 29, 2020 9:22 PM

I like to think that Jonathan Taylor Thomas was the embodiment of all that Hollywood aspired to.

by Anonymousreply 196July 29, 2020 9:24 PM

Antonio Sabato Jr was the embodiment of all that Hollywood aspired to re its creation of the ultimate, premiere, apex movie Queen. It was all realized in Antonio Sabato Jr. Go ahead - throw whomever you like in my face for comparison. It makes no difference. Sabato was the "golden one." This is why he will always be remembered.

by Anonymousreply 197July 29, 2020 9:30 PM

No one has surpassed the incomparable and legendary songstress Lana Cantrell.

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by Anonymousreply 198July 29, 2020 9:39 PM

r195 LMAO. WW

by Anonymousreply 199July 29, 2020 10:52 PM

R195, I heard eldergays say exactly the same thing about Judy Garland.

by Anonymousreply 200July 30, 2020 12:18 AM

Have we yet determined if any B-List stars ACTUALLY surpassed their A-List rivals?

by Anonymousreply 201July 30, 2020 12:32 AM

Joan Collins has never even been nominated for an Oscar, though somehow won a Golden Globe in 1983 and has an Emmy nomination from 1984. Also a Peoples Choice award from 1985.

To say that she is mediocre would be a compliment.

Liz Taylor was a Star, not on one trick pony on a badly written soap.

by Anonymousreply 202July 30, 2020 1:00 AM

I think we can all agree that Cleopatra would have been much better with Joan Collins.

by Anonymousreply 203July 30, 2020 1:35 AM

Elizabeth Taylor was a vulgar coarse looking woman with no neck or calves. The hair was too dark, her brows too heavy, the voice too shrieking and her beauty was gone before she turned 30. She was very famous - though she is not remembered today. Her beauty was heavy and round and inelegant. A youthful moment of lush coloring and fine features were soon swallowed in bloat and tacky excess. She was short on everything but greed and calories. Oh, yes - the AIDS charity. She did what she considered "work." A drunk dilettante in tacky jewels and too much perfume. Showed up for five minutes a year. My grandma says that Liz Taylor was the most famous woman in the world. I guess. But there is nothing classic or classy about her looks or talent. Her voice alone is enough to make me change the channel.

by Anonymousreply 204July 30, 2020 1:39 AM

R204 is Zombie Debbie Reynolds.

by Anonymousreply 205July 30, 2020 1:42 AM

R204 And Joan Collins was the 1950's equivalent to a Yacht Girl. She's a bit deranged any over-sharing these days.

by Anonymousreply 206July 30, 2020 1:44 AM

^^and not any^^

by Anonymousreply 207July 30, 2020 1:54 AM

R204 Just a thought but try ploughing back through Joan Collins body of work since the early 1950's. Almost every character is identical, by the time you get to 'The Stud' and 'The Bitch' in the late 1970's I'd defy you not to be considering suicide.

by Anonymousreply 208July 30, 2020 2:03 AM

R204 = Cunt Chocula

by Anonymousreply 209July 30, 2020 2:34 AM

R204 = Cecil Beaton from the grave

by Anonymousreply 210July 30, 2020 3:39 AM

All it takes is 1 Liz fan to kill a party.

She was a fat whore., best forgotten.

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by Anonymousreply 211July 30, 2020 4:01 AM

As stated above, she would have been better gracefully exiting during her peak. The later years were often an embarrassment and ruined her image.

by Anonymousreply 212July 30, 2020 10:16 AM

Larry Fortensky and the gray hair with black wings. Tacky.

by Anonymousreply 213July 30, 2020 10:18 AM

Girls, girls, GIRLS!

You both embarrassed yourselves and disappointed gay men everywhere in [italic]These Old Broads[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 214July 30, 2020 10:18 AM

Sc.. like r212 likes to pretend that there wasn't a lot of child abuse happening in the Golden Age, much more than later on; and that there weren't many clinically perverted back then in showbiz.

by Anonymousreply 215July 30, 2020 10:33 AM

Hmm...Taylor received two competitive Oscar's plus this one for her humanitarian work. Compare Collins' Oscar wins and...whoops!

Forgotten? Fucking idiots...

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by Anonymousreply 216July 31, 2020 6:00 AM

Liz’s acting was usually quite mediocre, and her voice shrill. She was good in a couple things (which were well written parts), but I think if any of us made 50 movies, we’d hopefully be decent in a handful of them, too.

It’s not like she was any innate performer. Her fame just let her luck into a few roles she could naturally identify with, and expanded on her own personality/persona.

by Anonymousreply 217July 31, 2020 6:07 AM

There’s a deluded Liz fan on this thread.

Like Judy and Marilyn, she attracts them.

For some reason.

by Anonymousreply 218July 31, 2020 6:21 AM

Marilyn Monroe was at least an interesting person, though, with a more soulful quality.

Liz was just fuckin’ BLANK most of the time. (Beautiful face, of course...) Her line readings were so flat they sometimes had to completely redo them on a second pass with additional looping (like in “Ivanhoe”)

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by Anonymousreply 219July 31, 2020 6:37 AM

Elizabeth Taylor had two vocal settings. Breathy whisper vocal fry voice or shrill SHRIEKING grand emotion!! ACTING!! What a fucking cow she was. Even when she was young.

by Anonymousreply 220July 31, 2020 6:42 AM

I always saw Joan Collins as the epitome of tacky.

by Anonymousreply 221July 31, 2020 9:51 AM

Liz too.

by Anonymousreply 222July 31, 2020 9:59 AM

Pat.Is.A.Fucking.Nut.Case. That will be all....

by Anonymousreply 223July 31, 2020 2:46 PM

Pat who?

by Anonymousreply 224July 31, 2020 3:25 PM

Joan was a better actress than Liz. Taylor played herself in almost everything she did. Collins had the ability to transform herself into different characters.

by Anonymousreply 225July 31, 2020 4:13 PM

Yes.

Reminds me of how Monroe found Jayne Mansfield’s performance in Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? ‘not funny’.

by Anonymousreply 226July 31, 2020 4:21 PM

The fact that there are several queens in this thread arguing about Joan Collins being in the same realm as Elizabeth-Fucking-Taylor!

Oh, my sides!

by Anonymousreply 227July 31, 2020 8:59 PM

Joan was a real trooper.

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by Anonymousreply 228July 31, 2020 9:09 PM

R188 How does comparing FRIENDS to GG make it sexist? You sound absolutely insane! Then again so does any political extremist, be they far-right or far-left. However, it is the far-left who is currently condoning censorship in the arts, restrictions on freedom of expression, cancel culture, and militant actions.

FRIENDS is an easy target for far-leftists, because it is still very popular, has an all-white, all-hetero cast. Anything that doesn't promote their multicultural utopia where everyone has multiracial, gay, and trans family/friends/neighbors/colleagues is considered bad or evil. Extremists are terrible for the arts, because all they care about is promoting a political agenda, everything and everyone else be damned!

Incidentally, FRIENDS is very popular in Asia and in other parts of the world. Just because some SJWs/snowflakes in the US, Canada, and the UK take offense doesn't matter in the end.

by Anonymousreply 229August 3, 2020 10:18 AM

The far-left also has no sense nor respect for history; they prefer to reimagine the past as they wish it had been, not as it really was. IMO, that's dangerous territory. You know that old saying, "Those who don't learn from history..."

by Anonymousreply 230August 3, 2020 10:22 AM

Who is the bigger star today: Angela Lansbury or Julie Andrews?

I would have to give the slight edge to Lansbury. Julie hasn't done anything of note in decades.

Do you think Julie is resentful of Angela's meteoric fame and popularity in the last 20 years?

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by Anonymousreply 231August 3, 2020 4:42 PM

Julie Andrews should thank her boring old raspy ass that she was inexplicably popular for a few years, 60 years ago. She's not an appealing talent or attractive. Way too phony and not even a great singer of her type.

Have you seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks? Now that's a great film.

by Anonymousreply 232August 3, 2020 4:46 PM

Is there a feud between Julie and Angela?

by Anonymousreply 233August 3, 2020 7:05 PM

Angela died in 2017, so I don't think so R233. Julie Andrews can barely speak. She promoted her "book" on James Corden with a naughty story about once having swatted a fly. She was on Colbert too - just my luck. He was much more worshipful because he's 70 years old. Julie had the audience in stitches telling about how Paul Newman once mistook her for the script girl. Can you blame him? Someone on Datalounge is going to cry now that Julie Andrews sang for the Nazis. I know. She did good. But some of us were born in the late eighties. Julie is not fascinating or talented or attractive. At least Angela could sing. RIP.

by Anonymousreply 234August 4, 2020 1:39 AM

The fuck R234 is talking about? I'm still alive, cunt!

by Anonymousreply 235August 4, 2020 5:05 AM

After having won a Golden Globe (the male equivalent of the one Helen Reddy lost for [italic]Airport 1975[/italic]) for his first film [italic]The Champ[/italic], it must gall Ricky Schroder not only to see Jason Bateman, star of [italic]Teen Wolf Too[/italic], win an Emmy but to also see Scott Baio, star of [italic]Zapped[/italic], to steal his precious GOP convention podium out from under him even before he went to jail.

by Anonymousreply 236August 4, 2020 5:14 AM

Is Ricky Schroeder a Trumptard? Rethug, yes, but a Trumptard like Chachi? And was Ricky in jail? For what?

by Anonymousreply 237August 4, 2020 4:51 PM

If Ricky went to jail for allegedly hitting his girlfriend, then Faye Dunaway should get the death penalty for attacking that gay assistant.

by Anonymousreply 238August 4, 2020 10:15 PM
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