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Horrible Kitchen Design

I want to vomit any time I see someone put the refrigerator next to the wall oven(s). BAD BAD BAD!

What else drives you crazy?

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by Anonymousreply 3768 hours ago

When you walk in the front door and you're in the damn kitchen!


This may be just a NYC thing.

by Anonymousreply 107/25/2020

Kitchen cabinets that don't go all the way up to the ceiling

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by Anonymousreply 207/25/2020

R1 hate that too. It's more common in NYC because of smaller spaces but I've been in apartments in Texas with them.

by Anonymousreply 307/25/2020

Open kitchens (or rather living rooms with a freaking kitchen).

The dumbest idea ever.

by Anonymousreply 407/25/2020

R2 - or, as in all of European homes, East and West, that don't go all the way to the floor, but just close enough not to be able to sweep up the crap under them without gargantuan effort. In fact, all European baths and kitchens are stupid. A five star hotel in Milan and the water is all over the floor when you shower. EVERY.FUCKING.TIME. What's worse, they all think it's normal.

by Anonymousreply 507/25/2020

R5 that's because it's common in Europe for kitchens to not include cabinets, so they need to be semi portable.

by Anonymousreply 607/25/2020

R2 That, with fake ivy dripping down everywhere. Kill me now.

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by Anonymousreply 707/25/2020

R5 American bathrooms are so uncivilized. I miss my bidet.

by Anonymousreply 807/25/2020

Let's not forget this gem:

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by Anonymousreply 907/25/2020

Overly complicated, loud or too-busy tile designs on backsplashes that overpower everything else in the room and shout "Look at me!"

by Anonymousreply 1007/25/2020

quartz, granite etc countertops that tend to look like a cross between roadkill and vomit. and people seem to spend big money on that and think it looks "classy", too. blech!

bonus points for deliberately "antique" style carved cabinetry with some kind of faux finish to make them look even older.

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by Anonymousreply 1107/25/2020

OMG Op ,thats such a stupid thing to do ! Whenever I see that on a design show I think "Dont you idiots realize the heat from the oven will make the fridge run continuously???"

by Anonymousreply 1207/25/2020

Yes those tv designers should know better, yet they do it anyway.

Tangentially, don't get me started on televisions over fireplaces.

by Anonymousreply 1307/25/2020

Stop it R13 ! you're triggering me !

by Anonymousreply 1407/25/2020

Waterfall countertops like in the picture at R11. They serve absolutely no purpose other than to draw attention to the designer in the corner saying “look what I did.”

by Anonymousreply 1507/25/2020

OP, you are too sensitive.

Fridges have good insulation nowadays.

And 90% of households don't use their stove to cook their own meals. They either eat out, or use a quick-and-easy-microwave or hire someone from the lower classes to deliver something.

by Anonymousreply 1607/25/2020

Pot fillers above stoves. How lazy are you???

by Anonymousreply 1707/25/2020

90% of households ARE "the lower classes".

frozen pizza still needs an oven.

by Anonymousreply 1807/25/2020

I hate cheap cherry cabinets. They scream turn-of-the-Millenium frau design.

by Anonymousreply 1907/25/2020

Chandeliers in over-the-top Castle Kitchens. Highly impractical.

by Anonymousreply 2007/25/2020

OP, sometimes there are space issues. And perhaps you've never heard of insulation.

But do vomit. It might help with the weight and excuse the breath.

by Anonymousreply 2107/25/2020

Sometimes I stumble upon new construction with oak cabinets from the 80s and early 90s. Why?

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by Anonymousreply 2207/25/2020

I hate cooktops on the island where the only exhaust is one of those pop-up things that doesn't go nearly high enough to grab the fumes coming off of taller pots. Or the microwaves over the stove/cooktop that just recirculate the air below them. Give me an exhaust fan properly vented to the outside.

by Anonymousreply 2307/25/2020

R11 I agree that particular granite waterfall looks like vomit. But waterfalls can be useful if you want to hide the fact that some island benches are for eating on and the stool-sitters need leg room.

by Anonymousreply 2407/25/2020

Great comments. I also hate the cooktop on an island and the wall ovens next to the fridge. I do however actually use the pot filler over the cooktop. My sink is on the other side of the large island from the cooktop so it comes in handy.

by Anonymousreply 2507/25/2020

Nothing dates a kitchen faster than those beyond tired granite counters and stainless appliances. Both also notorious for being nightmares to clean.

by Anonymousreply 2607/25/2020

Sofas in an open kitchen.

The fabric must smell fucking terrible.

by Anonymousreply 2707/25/2020

[quote] And 90% of households don't use their stove to cook their own meals. They either eat out, or use a quick-and-easy-microwave or hire someone from the lower classes to deliver something.

I can't fathom where you got that bit of lunacy from.

by Anonymousreply 2807/25/2020

Which 'bit' in particular, R28?

by Anonymousreply 2907/25/2020

I despise cook-tops on islands. I hate even more cook-tops on islands with seating adjacent to the cook top.

Hot, messy, might burn someone, stupid, and on and on. Are you supposed to eat or do paperwork with a hot or boiling pot inches from your fingers. STUPIDEST IDEA EVER!!!

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by Anonymousreply 3007/25/2020

Tile countertops. You can't keep the grout clean and it makes it awkward when rolling out dough, even if you're rolling it out on foil.

Kitchens with no cabinets above the countertop. All that empty wall space and you couldn't put a single cabinet in it?

A kitchen with a "popcorn" wall (rare, thankfully). I had one of those and the wall just shredded sponges, cloths, and paper towels, making it damn near impossible to clean.

Countertops without a back splash of some kind.

Kitchens with no fan or vent to the outside above the stove.

A hardwood floor in a kitchen. They must not spill as much as I do.

Definitely agree with cabinets that don't go all the way to the ceiling or don't go all the way down to the floor.

by Anonymousreply 3107/25/2020

Island cooktops with seating make me feel like I'm in a Japanese steakhouse

by Anonymousreply 3207/25/2020

I’ve never seen a stove/oven next to the refrigerator. Wouldn’t it get food splattered all over the side from things cooking on the stove?

I don’t like when the stove or refrigerator is right at the doorway.

by Anonymousreply 3307/25/2020

The reason for cabinets that do not go all the was to the ceiling is that most ceilings are uneven, even in new construction. If the molding meets the ceiling, the top cabinet rail is a trapezoid to compensate for the uneven ceiling.

by Anonymousreply 3407/25/2020

Dishes and food stored on open shelving.

by Anonymousreply 3507/25/2020

R35, you would hate our kitchen. We cook. Nearly everything is out, either on a shelf or hanging on the wall. Yes, things that are seasonal or that we do not use daily are in cupboards, but most everything else is out. And, yes, it is clean because everything is used too often to be covered in dust or grease.

by Anonymousreply 3607/25/2020

Single sinks annoy me. It makes washing dishes nasty or an additional hassle. Two sinks all the way!

Fancy counter tops, nice subway tile backsplash, quality cabinets, nice appliances, then linoleum on the floors. Like really, you just gave up when it came to the floors?

by Anonymousreply 3707/25/2020

Not respecting the triangle.

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by Anonymousreply 3807/25/2020

I do love those wall mounted ovens. Maybe it's because I've seen them on TV, but they look so fancy , fun and practical.

by Anonymousreply 3907/25/2020

I guess I have two pet peeves. One is farmhouse sinks. I hate the idea of them, just like I hate barn-style doors. You shouldn't have any of these unless you live on a farm or in a barn.

The other pet peeve in the kitchen would be refrigerators not fitting in with the cabinets. Why are they deeper than cabinets and therefore have to stand out? It's very unsightly. I like the European concept where refrigerators are concealed and look like a kitchen cabinet from the outside.

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by Anonymousreply 4007/25/2020

Oak-y and/or highly beveled cabinetry.

Busy countertops - no matter how high quality - Like R11 pointed out.

DLers will probably think this is ultra trashy - but in a small kitchen, a cabinet above the fridge

by Anonymousreply 4107/25/2020

Dead spaces in the corners (cabinetry). One solution is to put the sink in the corner, since the under-sink area is kind of a dead / unclean-feeling space. One of my favorite apartment kitchens had a corner sink.

Love Japanese kitchens. When I lived there, had enameled metal cabinets that went up to the ceiling. Felt so clean. Also, the hot water (gas) system was amazing. As soon as you turned on the faucet, hot water, no waiting. That was Japan.

Also hate tiled (especially small tiles) on counters and backsplashes. Why do that?

by Anonymousreply 4207/25/2020

The cardinal kitchen sin is no window. Same with bathroom.

by Anonymousreply 4307/25/2020

I hate island cooktops but island ranges are worse

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by Anonymousreply 4407/25/2020

I meant no cabinet above the fridge.

by Anonymousreply 4507/25/2020

Speaking of old sinks, a friend has a 17th C chateau in the Jura mountains. Gorgeous little palace where Rousseau was a frequent, long-term houseguest. Anyhoo, the pantry gave me orgasms, and the kitchen was typical - so very old - with stone sinks. We had to hand wash all the crystal and china. Let me tell you, crystal breaks so easily in stone sinks. There is NO room for error. I recommended a few times they get sponge nets for the sinks but they shrugged. That house was sold over a decade ago, completely furnished with all the 18th and 19th Century dog-eared treasures, to a Russian oligarch. I wonder if he kept any of the old charm.

by Anonymousreply 4607/25/2020

I have no cabinet above my fridge. Is that classy or trashy? Frankly, I’d rather not have a cabinet up there.

by Anonymousreply 4707/25/2020

I don’t like when the island morphs into a banquette. Nobody can gather at the island and talk.

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by Anonymousreply 4807/25/2020

OP my apartment has that arrangement. There is absolutely no other way to do it though. At first it bothered me but it doesn’t seem to be a problem. It just looks annoying.

by Anonymousreply 4907/25/2020


Much of that has to do with NYS/NYC zoning laws in particular old and new law tenements.

By law habitable rooms must have windows for air and light. Kitchens and bathrooms can either have same or use mechanical ventilation ; those air grates you see in many kitchens and baths in buildings built say after 1950's or whatever connect to vents on roof that supply fresh air. In some buildings there is negative air flow in that grates in halls or common areas push fresh air out (again from roof or mechanical systems), while those inside apartments pull air in. Result is that instead of air (and associated odors) being pushed out from apartments into common areas, things go up and out instead.

Leaving aside studio apartments can see good reasons for having kitchen near front door. Then again grew up in a large suburban home where back service door lead to kitchen. That was the door Mom used when bringing groceries or other things to kitchen instead of having to walk all way from front door back to kitchen.

In large pre-war apartments that were designed and built with expectation a household would have servants there are often two entrances. Formal front door where residents and their guests enter, and a back service door near or off the kitchen.

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by Anonymousreply 5007/25/2020

Island benches are now 'de rigeur'. They are talking spaces and performance spaces.

Your audience watches as you cut, stir and mix. You must never turn your back on your audience.

by Anonymousreply 5107/25/2020

I toured an old farmhouse belonging to a 19th c poet, the house had a wooden sink for washing the dishes and glasses so they wouldn’t break. I kinda like that idea.

by Anonymousreply 5207/25/2020

Design that is too busy. People don't realize how many things create a pattern in a kitchen - many stone countertops, backsplashes, cabinet carpentry at times, hardware, flooring, lighting, curtains, etc. Some kitchens with lovely individual features end up looking like a Gloria Vanderbilt mishmash of clashing patterns.

Small kitchens almost always have the stove/range next to the fridge. Can't be helped. When cooking splashes on the side of the fridge you wipe it down when you wipe down the stove itself. Duh.

And, yes, I never understand the island ranges. I'd need liability insurance for burning/scalding/frying my guests.

I used to want everything hidden away but as I became a serious cook I wanted most things out and readily available. I have put some dishes/platters on shelves and despite the cons to that I appreciate how handy that is when cooking in a small space and juggling several dishes as once.

by Anonymousreply 5307/25/2020

Not a horrible kitchen design, but I am curious: Coming from Europe I noticed that American kitchen sinks are usually under the kitchen window. Why is that? Is there a historic reason for that?

by Anonymousreply 5407/25/2020

To look out the window while you do the dishes, r54, which historically were not done in dishwashers. Grandma *was* the dishwasher, and looking out the window was nicer for her than staring at a wall.

by Anonymousreply 5507/25/2020

R34 - Here are two other reasons: First is cost. Cabinets cost money and cutting them down is cheaper than running them all the way to the ceiling. Second is the dreaded kitchen soffit. The soffit often gave space for the HVAC ducts and kitchen ventilation to run as well as to be used for electrical (you might as well use the ugly things for multiple purposes). Often can lights etc. are incorporated underneath where the soffit continues without cabinets underneath. The look is very cheap and dated, but did serve purposes I suppose. If you have no soffits present then see reason number 1 or R34's wise post.

by Anonymousreply 5607/25/2020

I'd MUCH rather have a single deep sink than 2 or 3 bowls. For me, the sink is just where dirty dishes go to fester until they get put in the dishwasher. One sink bowl means all the biohazardous rotting crap goes into the disposal, instead of... er... "collecting & rotting" until the cleaning lady comes on Tuesday.

If you have 9 or 10-foot ceilings (the norm for modern American homes, even skyscrapers), ceiling-height cabinets would need a literal ladder to reach. And as noted, ceilings are NEVER truly square & level. It's also great to put lights on top aimed upward to provide bright diffused light, hidden behind top moulding.

My house has two dishwashers flanking the sink. I use clean dishes out of one, while putting dirty ones into the other, and only have to put away a few dishes when it's time for them to swap roles. My mom is appalled. My dad thinks it's cool. My partner thinks I'm weird for refusing to use anything that has to be hand-washed, and regarding hand-washed dishes as fundamentally gross & unsanitary.

by Anonymousreply 5707/25/2020

[quote]My partner thinks I'm weird for refusing to use anything that has to be hand-washed, and regarding hand-washed dishes as fundamentally gross & unsanitary.

I think you're weird, too. Are you a Lysolina?

by Anonymousreply 5807/25/2020

Maybe it's the angle, but in OP's pic, it looks like the cook would have to stand to the side to open the oven doors. There's not a whole lot of space there.

by Anonymousreply 5907/25/2020

Why don’t you like the fridge next to the wall oven OP?

by Anonymousreply 6007/25/2020

r48 they can talk at the side. I really like that setup for that kitchen's size.

by Anonymousreply 6107/25/2020

R37, I love my single bowl sink. I can lay frying pans and 9" x 13" baking pans flat to soak. And for handwashing dishes, I use a dishpan.

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by Anonymousreply 6207/25/2020

I don't understand from r50 why the foyer is the kitchen?

by Anonymousreply 6307/25/2020

[quote] instead of... er... "collecting & rotting" until the cleaning lady comes on Tuesday.

[quote] My house has two dishwashers flanking the sink. I use clean dishes out of one, while putting dirty ones into the other, and only have to put away a few dishes when it's time for them to swap roles.

He's not weird. He's lazy.

by Anonymousreply 6407/25/2020

[quote] Why don’t you like the fridge next to the wall oven OP?

It's energy inefficient, I'm guessing. Something that creates heat next to something that supposed to keep things cold.

A friend has his "beer fridge" outside his house. It's under the eaves, but it does get morning sun (HOT climate). Really energy-inefficient.

by Anonymousreply 6507/25/2020

I absolutely loathe the trend of different colored upper and lower cabinets. It looks ridiculous and is already very dated and out of fashion. I can't imagine how many people shelled out $50,000-$100,000 for a new kitchen, only to get such a horribly dated design.

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by Anonymousreply 6607/26/2020

R40 counter depth fridges are easy to find in the US, but generally more expensive than regular fridges.

And I'd kill to have room for a big kitchen island with the cooktop on it and room for barstools. I have seen several of these setups in friend's homes and not once have I seen anyone sitting at the bar doing anything while cooking was going on. My kitchen is a very long galley kitchen. It has its positives, but after 44 years with it I'd love to have a big wide kitchen where I could move in all directions, not just right or left.

by Anonymousreply 6707/26/2020

Great trap hanging lamps.

by Anonymousreply 6807/26/2020

I love my farm sink. When I wash wine glasses and other fragile things I put a large dish towel on the bottom of the sink makes a nice pad just in case.

by Anonymousreply 6907/26/2020

R68 meant to type GREASE TRAP hanging lights.

by Anonymousreply 7007/26/2020

This is the sort of DL thread I need right now. Seriously. Fun, escapist, gay, and I learn a little bit.

by Anonymousreply 7107/26/2020

I love this thread!

With all the comments on cabinets and how they should reach the floor and ceiling, can you all explain the practicality of kitchens with high ceilings?

I don't think the kitchen looks that bad in the picture, but you would need a 12 foot ladder to get items from the top cabinets! And some of the stuff in there looks pretty big.

Take a look at the huge cabinets above the refrigerator. What could possibly be in there? Why not just use a storage closet?

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by Anonymousreply 7207/26/2020

I don't mind cabinets that don't reach the ceiling in some instances. I think with super high cabinets you'd try to store things that aren't used that much at the very top.

by Anonymousreply 7307/26/2020

I get that you would store less frequently used stuff in higher cabinets, but in the pic at R72, it seems a bit perilous for anyone to be on a tall ladder reaching over, grabbing, and trying to bring down a 3 foot long ceramic serving platter from high level cabinets.

by Anonymousreply 7407/26/2020

You're probably right, r74. And yet, I like that the storage goes up to the top. Just for looks, I appreciate that there is no break between the cabinets and the ceiling. It would be a dead spot that wouldn't serve the looks or a purpose other than collecting dust and grime. I'd probably store paper towel, toilet paper and my mother in law up there.

by Anonymousreply 7507/26/2020

R72, they could just be faux cabinets. For the glass display cabinets, what would be the point? The items you display up there are so high up, you can barely seem them, and they'll just collect dust that the poor, underpaid cleaning lady is going to risk life and limb to bring down for proper washing and polishing.

Other ideas are just to put matching panels.

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by Anonymousreply 7607/26/2020

What do you all think of the more minimalist Italian kitchen designs like Boffi....(just scroll down through link to see different designs)

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by Anonymousreply 7707/26/2020

Or Pedini...

I know they are pretty overpriced at $100K

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by Anonymousreply 7807/26/2020

[quote] And [bold]90% of households [/bold]don't use their stove to cook their own meals. They either eat out, or use a quick-and-easy-microwave or [bold]hire someone from the lower classes[/bold] to deliver something.

Look at R16 telling on her classism like that. “90%” hire “the lower classes” okay hon 🤣

by Anonymousreply 7907/26/2020

I like having the high cabinets to store extra sets of dinnerware that don’t get used often. Also it’s good for bulk items. All you need is a step stool tucked in a closet nearby.

by Anonymousreply 8007/26/2020

I'm having flashbacks to my 4th floor walkup (5th floor for Yanks) in Paris.

The kitchen was the worst. A single row of removable cabinets and countertops with a sink not much bigger than a bar sink in a suburban home. Countertop all ridged stainless steel, nowhere flat to put anything. Two flat-top burners, and an oversized toaster oven/rotisserie (Frenchies gotta have their roast chicken). The refrigerator fit under the counter too, like a dorm frig.

Not much cooking went on there.

by Anonymousreply 8107/26/2020

"Dorm frig"

Oh Dear!

by Anonymousreply 8207/26/2020

American here, but I get you R81. I lived in Madrid and London for awhile and I feel like the major kitchen appliances for most people there including washer/dryer, are much smaller than what people would expect in an average mid-priced/sized home in the US.

by Anonymousreply 8307/26/2020

Bathrooms located right off the kitchen (instant turnoff) -- puke!

by Anonymousreply 8407/26/2020

So many horrible design mistakes already described.

I hate appliance garages. Pulled ours out.

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by Anonymousreply 8507/26/2020

My dream kitchen Would include the electrical outlets under the cabinets, like the lights.

Those modern kitchens are terrible. No counter space and they look cold and impersonal.

by Anonymousreply 8607/26/2020

Wow R85 I was thinking "appliance garage" was just a mocking name for that but..... it's not.

by Anonymousreply 8707/26/2020

R81, have you ever seen the kitchen that Julia Child had in Paris, when she learned to cook? It was the size of a closet.

by Anonymousreply 8807/26/2020

A friend put a Pedini kitchen in his chalet in Cortina and had many problems with it.

by Anonymousreply 8907/26/2020

Can you please elaborate R89?

by Anonymousreply 9007/26/2020

Cortina just isn't going to work out.

by Anonymousreply 9107/26/2020

I visited a friend who had a postage stamp sized kitchen in Sausalito. Like 6 feet, along one wall, including an apartment size fridge and stove and maybe 18” work space. No dishwasher. He had a hanging pot rack and some basic wire shelving for storage and still managed to turn out gourmet meals. So while it might be more pleasant to cook in a large, well equipped kitchen, as long as you know what you are doing and have the basic tools, it’s not necessary.

by Anonymousreply 9207/26/2020

Laquer that scratched with soft cleaning, warped wood, bad fittings and runners, granite he didn't consider up to stuff. But my friend is VERY picky. I also wonder if the house was well maintained for temperature.

by Anonymousreply 9307/26/2020

I’m not sure about the trend in upscale houses to have the main kitchen be streamlined for show and then a lot of The uglier things like microwave, toaster, extra fridge, coffeemaker, blender, warming drawers in the supersized pantry. It sounds nice but functionally seems tricky to cook in.

by Anonymousreply 9407/26/2020

R88 In that Julia Child movie from quite a while back, they make her out to be a sex fiend who can't get enough orgasms, can't get enough of that D!

by Anonymousreply 9507/26/2020

The South Fork (Dallas TV series) had two single door refrigerators both beside ovens.

by Anonymousreply 9607/26/2020

[quote] I don't mind cabinets that don't reach the ceiling in some instances. I think with super high cabinets you'd try to store things that aren't used that much at the very top.

Renter here. The tops of my cabinets are unfinished particle board. I can't wipe it down. I hate it. At least the top of a refrigerator is enameled metal that you can wipe down.

by Anonymousreply 9707/26/2020

If I could design my own kitchen, I would build in under-cabinet lighting. Not sure why it's not standard. I have an over-range microwave. The MW is now broken and the things I really miss are the two small light fixtures on the under side of the microwave. Those two small bulbs really helped with cooking on the stove top.

by Anonymousreply 9807/26/2020

True r97. I vacuum them every couple of months.

by Anonymousreply 9907/26/2020

I believe Carmela Soprano stored her samovar on a high shelf in her cabinets.

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by Anonymousreply 10007/26/2020


Cut out area for fridges is what it is; so unless you're building new and or willing to do some major renovation you're stuck with things as are.

Refrigerator size ranges have changed over years, and what was available say in 1940's, 1950's, 1960's or even 1970's may no longer be today. This or whatever people can find that does fit, doesn't come in color or style wanted.

People have spent large sums of money repairing and old fridge because nothing else is available that will fit into same space.

by Anonymousreply 10107/26/2020

Slightly off topic: I hate homes that are designed so that when you open the front door you're looking right up the stairs. I once saw a home so badly designed the front door grazed the bottom stair when you swung it open.

Back on topic: overuse of tiles and bad backsplash design. Yanking out poorly thought out and/or ugly tiles is such a nightmare.

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by Anonymousreply 10207/26/2020

R34, my solution was to use a hidden piece of moulding that "leveled off" the ceiling. Granted, my kitchen is NYC apartment small, so it didn't take much extra time/effort.

by Anonymousreply 10307/26/2020

Do we all at least agree that the white subway tile is out? I still see this being put into newly renovated homes, and some are trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of it by installing the tiles to be oriented vertically rather than the usual horizontal.

by Anonymousreply 10407/26/2020

I didn’t think it was ever in, R104, I positively loathe white or any other color subway tile.

It is the most boring, unimaginative, ugly, lifeless, uninteresting, flat and, did I mention boring, backsplash ever.

by Anonymousreply 10507/26/2020

I'm wondering... in countries that have adopted the American norm of built-in cabinets in standard sizes, but are "100%" metric (like Australia), how do you decide how much width to leave for the range and overhead microwave oven? In the US, they're nominally 30 inches, and kitchen cabinets are generally sized as multiples of 3 inches. But I know that 30 inches comes out to 76.2cm, and I'm assuming that in "metric" countries, cabinets probably run in standard sizes that are whole multiples of 5 or 6 centimeters.

So, how do you deal with the "30 inch range" problem? Do they make slightly-different ranges that are exactly 75cm wide for sale in "Metric" countries? Use some other width that's a "nice" metric size and sufficiently smaller or larger than 76.2cm to guarantee no "oh, shit... it's a few millimeters too wide to fit" problems (like maybe 65 or 70cm)? Make cabinets that are generally whole multiples of 5cm, but make an exception and include 76, 77, or 77.5cm as an additional standard width between 75 and 80cm to accommodate ranges made for 30-inch markets?

Ditto, for things like dishwashers. 24 inches is the norm for American dishwashers... which comes out to 61cm... too wide to fit if you left a 60cm gap, but would leave a gap of nearly an inch along both sides if you tried leaving a 65cm gap. And if you sized the gap to be exactly 61cm, you wouldn't be able to find a wall cabinet that's a whole multiple of 5cm that would properly sit above it & would have your sizing for the entire row of wall cabinets thrown off.

I know that in Canada, they just accept that they're stuck with 3" standardized cabinet widths for all eternity... and in Germany & much of continental Europe, they just don't build-in kitchen cabinets. But most British and Australian kitchens I've seen photos of appear to have the same kind of mass-produced built-in cabinets that American kitchens do.

Then again, I know Britain and Australia were both imperial as well until at least the 1970s. So, maybe they just said "screw it" with trying to force "pure" metric kitchen dimensions, and just decided to size cabinets in whole multiples of 76.2mm? Or started with 77cm as the baseline reference from which all subsequent dimensions are derived, and add or subtract some whole multiple of some "nice" whole number of centimeters or millimeters to 77 to derive the standard widths for the rest of the cabinets in the kitchen?

Mundane trivia, but I still think it would be fascinating to know. :-)

by Anonymousreply 10607/26/2020

I kind of like that appliance garage at R85.

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by Anonymousreply 10707/26/2020

Really R105? I feel like circa 2015, the whole subway tile for kitchens was all the rage, especially when combined with a more rustic aesthetic.

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by Anonymousreply 10807/26/2020

I always wonder about those of you who are always complaining about other's decorating choices. It's like nothing is ever right. Post a picture of a kitchen that is decorated properly. What kind of tile is correct? What kind of countertops are correct? Help us out here.

by Anonymousreply 10907/26/2020

Mary! at R109, the thread is titled HORRIBLE kitchen design. By definition we're not sharing the things we like.

by Anonymousreply 11007/26/2020

I’ve seen brass showing up more in design magazines and I’m not a fan

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by Anonymousreply 11107/26/2020

Here is a slightly updated Walter Gropius designed kitchen, in London. It's just about ideal and incredibly chic. If I had money I would have metal kitchen in BAUHAUS style, or original bauhaus designs.

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by Anonymousreply 11207/26/2020

Is brass considered cheap? I have no idea.

by Anonymousreply 11307/26/2020

R50's link with the picture of a tenement triggered my memory of W. C. Fields trying to sleep on the porch while a salesman is looking for Carl LaFong: "It's A Gift" (1934). Possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen.

by Anonymousreply 11407/26/2020

Of course I forgot to link it -- sorry!

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by Anonymousreply 11507/26/2020

Of course that's the wrong link!

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by Anonymousreply 11607/26/2020

Well, yeah, R108, but just because everybody is doing it doesn’t mean it’s good. Or stylish. Or interesting in any way, shape or form. 😬😬

by Anonymousreply 11707/26/2020

I'll take the subway tile over a migraine-inducing busy mosaic.

by Anonymousreply 11807/26/2020

Subway tiles were definitely 'in', for way too long. And I actually like them in the right setting. But just like granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances they became ubiquitous , so they no longer made a statement other than 'I try to get my bathroom or kitchen up to the latest fashion trend'.

I'll add subway tiles as my third HGTV shill disaster next to farmhouse sinks and barn-style doors. Ewwww...

by Anonymousreply 11907/26/2020

Yes, R119.

Plus that shiplap crap.

by Anonymousreply 12007/26/2020

Subway tile isn’t tacky, it’s a part of a legitimate style. It’s very nice when done right. It has been overused in the past decade, often inappropriately and shoddily done.

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by Anonymousreply 12107/26/2020

That's horrific R121, and the "Please make straight" is ironic on DL...

Anyway, if granite is out for countertops, what's new and fresh?

by Anonymousreply 12207/26/2020

R40 For us it was a cost and space issue. A cabinet-depth refrigerator was $1800 more than a standard depth one, plus it had less available storage. Making a wider space for the fridge would cost us a set of drawers. So we gritted our teeth and bought the standard size one.

Looks like shit but what can you do.

by Anonymousreply 12307/26/2020

Oh, I get it. Same for me and my kitchen. I just don't understand why this is not better coordinated within the industry. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind giving counter space those additional four inches of depth. But yes, for us too it came down to budget to rectify what the industry messes up. So we ended up with a truly 'outstanding' but affordable refrigerator.

by Anonymousreply 12407/26/2020

I realized the other day that my large refrigerator (double door, French doors, pullout freezer on bottom) is filled with things to GO with food! Has anyone ever had two refrigerators, one for condiments and drinks and the other for actual food?

by Anonymousreply 12507/26/2020

Open shelves.

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by Anonymousreply 12607/26/2020

Avocado appliances and harvest yellow laminate counter tops.

My mother's kitchen had those counter tops and she wall papered the powder room with similar paper to the pic. My older sister bought refrigerator paint and sprayed her appliances harvest gold.

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by Anonymousreply 12707/26/2020

I don't mind some open shelves - as long as there's some cabinets too.

by Anonymousreply 12807/26/2020

The modern concept of a huge great room containing open concept kitchen with big island, floating dining table and then seating area facing TV leaves me cold.

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by Anonymousreply 12907/26/2020

But isn't that how people live R129? Gone are the days when you had rooms that you were only allowed to go into for holidays and special occasions. The whole house is supposed to be livable.

by Anonymousreply 13007/26/2020

I agree with livability but don’t think that means it has to be all in one rectangular room R130. I think rooms can have flow and good sight lines while still having some warmth and definition. Just my preference.

by Anonymousreply 13107/26/2020

R130 I'm not R129 but I agree with them, those big open great room/kitchens are very hard to set up in a way that feels warm and looks nice. Too frequently it feels like a warehouse or gymnasium with different sections set up in it. You can still have fully used rooms and a livable space while separating them, even leaving them more open to each other than most rooms are, but less open than in the pic.

by Anonymousreply 13207/26/2020

R79 What do you call those lowly-paid people who deliver your dinner?

Would you do that job for their lousy wage?

by Anonymousreply 13307/26/2020

I don't see the open plan design going away anytime soon. I'm looking for a house now and ALL the new constructions are open plan. The only time you can avoid it is when you're buy older houses built in like 1960 or something.

by Anonymousreply 13407/26/2020

Whenever you deviate from standard for kitchens it tends to cost more. Fridges that aren't any of the standard counter depths or other measurements, cost more.

This also explains why portable dishwashers can cost more or same as built-in (market isn't that large so money has to be made on selling lower amounts but at higher prices). Ditto for why 18" dishwashers often aren't that much cheaper than full size.

by Anonymousreply 13507/26/2020

Except for my parents’ house and houses built before 1980, I have not seen a formal, separate dining room in a house in forever. I’m not sure formal dining even exists any longer.

by Anonymousreply 13607/26/2020

Open floor plans are still in heavy use, but it seems that the absolute horror of McMansion style open floor plans have peaked. A lot now are a more modified open floor plan, where you can get some half walls or archways to help break up space. Also on trend are the use of glass walls which create the feel of open floor while still dividing rooms. And there's a whole industry developing around fixing horrible open floor plan houses.

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by Anonymousreply 13707/26/2020

^ Forgot to add, a friend is in the middle of building a house and he's using a modified open floor plan. Kitchen and dining are open, but there is a living room and den which are each separate rooms, one of them behind glass doors to create a partial open feel.

by Anonymousreply 13807/26/2020

One more thing: if you've never treated yourself to this blog, do it! Warning, you will lose many hours reading through her archive.

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by Anonymousreply 13907/26/2020

There are still formal dining areas (not rooms) in modern houses that are typically to your left or right as soon as you enter a home. They can also be converted to a home office or study if formal dining is not needed.

by Anonymousreply 14007/26/2020

My home growing up had a nice way of doing an open-ish/not-quite-open kitchen/living room that I like much better than the big warehouse style kitchen/living room combos popular today. There was a large kitchen with space for a table to eat at, and a great room parallel to it. A wall covered most of the border between them, except with a wide opening between the two near where the table was placed. So the rooms were visually separated but felt connected and open to each other. It's hard to describe without a pic but a brief google can't find any similar plans. When you were cooking in the center of the kitchen, you felt like you were in a separate room. Sitting at the table you felt like the great room was accessible, but you weren't quite in it yet.

We had the dreaded cooktop-in-the-island, but mitigated by the fact that the seating part of the island was raised much higher than the cooking/countertop part so they felt separate and you couldn't reach out and burn yourself.

The floorplan included a separate formal dining room but we didn't put a dining table in it, although we still called it "the dining room."

The caveats are that we had a lot of space to make it work, it was built in the 90s so some of the choices may be out of style, and my parents were immigrants who did not care whatsoever about suburban norms or trends when they built it.

by Anonymousreply 14107/26/2020

Been there, and done that when growing up; dining room was rarely if ever used outside of major holidays (Thanksgiving or Christmas family meals), and sometimes not even then.

All the trouble of setting table (complete with good china and silver), and no one went near; everyone either at in the kitchen or in front of television.....

In homes of today a dining room likely is a waste of space. Dining area like Samantha Stephens had off her living room in Bewitched is more modern and slightly better IMHO.

by Anonymousreply 14207/26/2020

That blog post is excellent R137.

by Anonymousreply 14307/26/2020

Absolutely loathe open floor plans...

There's something to be said for keeping a bit of space between mayhem in kitchen and one's guests.

Besides open floor plans all but invite backseat cooks to wander over and offer their unsolicited advice. Will Truman's apartment on W&G bugged me because cannot see how pre-war building would have that open floor plan kitchen/dining area/living room. A studio apartment maybe, but not a two bedroom.

Then again Will Truman was always cooking or baking something...

by Anonymousreply 14407/26/2020

Will Truman's kitchen also had the magical property of being soundproofed from the living area for private discussions R144. Unless of course one of you were behind the counter and one on the couch, then you could hear each other.

by Anonymousreply 14507/26/2020

I LOVE those glass dividing walls at R137 ! Thats an old European idea.

by Anonymousreply 14607/26/2020

I don't know how to describe the style, but those small horizontal tiles as seen at r66 for me is another example of tile work that never should have happened in the first place. Not attractive, dizzying and another good example of something that looks outdated at the start.

by Anonymousreply 14707/26/2020

Open floor plans are not a modern concept. Originally, they came up to manage the temperature better for everyone living inside. But you cannot deny the additional advantage of the large living space as a center for your family or social life.

Personally I very much like the 'half-open' floor plan as mentioned above, with half walls, glass dividers or even different floor levels. It's probably my preferred concept.

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by Anonymousreply 14807/26/2020

God R148! where would you go to jerk off in a house like that?

by Anonymousreply 14907/26/2020

Oh, I don't want that. Just saying it's a rather old concept. I am not giving up my privacy for that.

by Anonymousreply 15007/26/2020

I love those R77, so clean and modern. I hate the idea that kitchen has to look like some Karen picked it out from her local discount design center.

by Anonymousreply 15107/26/2020

All the old queens hate open plans, gee what a surprise.

Get over it girls, especially now, with people cooking more than ever before and some learning how to, I predict it will become even more popular.

by Anonymousreply 15207/26/2020

R139, that is a goldmine. "90's Taco Bell Valance" LOL

by Anonymousreply 15307/26/2020

^^Gold mine^^

by Anonymousreply 15407/26/2020

I actually dont mind center island cook tops if they are done right with induction instead of gass and a flush mount ceiling smoke removal system instead of a big large kitchen hood.

by Anonymousreply 15507/26/2020

R148, how dreadful. Sumerian housewives understood the benefits of privacy.

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by Anonymousreply 15607/26/2020

Where's the bathroom r156?

by Anonymousreply 15707/26/2020

R152, are you the queen who has been demanding for the last 20 years that we all eschew stainless steel and granite and embrace open plans and concrete?

by Anonymousreply 15807/26/2020

Well if you can get your feet washed in the courtyard, then you can certainly shit in the street, r157!

by Anonymousreply 15907/26/2020

R157 NO I CAN'T!

by Anonymousreply 16007/26/2020


by Anonymousreply 16107/26/2020

[quote]are you the queen who has been demanding for the last 20 years that we all eschew stainless steel and granite and embrace open plans and concrete?

Nope, I am not that old. Why would I push that. Just stating a fact, open pans are here to stay. Permanent change in society, they are not a fad like subway tile or farmhouse sinks. Formal living Room vs Family room is gone as well. No one builds houses like that for a reason, no one uses a formal living room like they did in old times. Even very wealthy people who have personal chefs will sometimes have two kitchens, the one for the workers and the one facing the living area so the people living there can pretend they cook. That and it's a known fact people like to gather in kitchens. It's been that way since man gathered around a fire. The idea of a closed off kitchen is really an abstraction in normal human behavior patterns if you think about it.

God kill me if I am on the DL for 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 16207/26/2020

^^open plans^^

by Anonymousreply 16307/26/2020

R16, Your percentage claim is out of your posterior. Do you think everyone is upper middle class or above?

by Anonymousreply 16407/26/2020

[quote]it's common in Europe for kitchens to not include cabinets, so they need to be semi portable

It's not very common now, except in Germany which remains semi-wed to the idea. Europeans do not generally move their kitchens from house to house; most people start again in the new space because, well, kitchens are not all the same and European kitchens were never more than semi-modular.

It happens but with the same frequency as in American houses: very seldom.

by Anonymousreply 16507/26/2020

R17, It's not a matter of "lazy;" it's a matter of strength to carry a big pot of water. The flaw, of course, is in the emptying.

by Anonymousreply 16607/26/2020

[quote]open pans are here to stay.

That’s where the Sumerian housewives shit!

by Anonymousreply 16707/26/2020

You're too fucking sensitive: vomiting (in all caps, no less) because a refrigerator is next to a wall oven?

Because the sacred "work triangle" is violated?

Not all kitchens lend themselves to your rules. Sometimes it's impossible to put the kitchen sink under a window so that the aproned housewife can take cheer from spotting the first robin of spring because to achieve one rule is to violate three more important rules.

by Anonymousreply 16807/26/2020

A kitchen as a 'design' focus.

by Anonymousreply 16907/27/2020

On trend kitchens.

They just date and of course get gutted and replaced.

Very wasteful.

by Anonymousreply 17007/27/2020

R77, I happen to love "minimalist Italian" Modern. My absolute favorite style.

by Anonymousreply 17107/27/2020

R85, I have two appliance "garages" and really like the clean look. Inside one are my blender, mini-chopper, and Cuisinart; the other houses a basket of reading glasses and electronics accessories like ear buds, charging cords, chargers, etc.

I had to buy three bookcases to store my Le Creuset pots in my dining room. My kitchen cabinets can hold a lot, but not all.

by Anonymousreply 17207/27/2020

Girly, crafts, sparkly, shiny (i.e., The Property Brothers) backsplashes with little bitty whimsical tiles in a thousand bright colors.

Few surfaces need backsplashes, maybe near a stove or a sink, but big fucking American kitchens have acres of fussy little micro-tile backsplash in glass and ceramic and stone and sparkly bursts of unicorn farts in metallic. It's tragic and unnecessary. What are these people doing - throwing eggs and squirting condiments behind their toasters? It makes a calm kitchen schizo.

Undecorated tiles or allover pattern of normal sized tiles, or an expanse of stone or metal if you must, but stop with all the expression of kitschy personality. It looks like shit.

by Anonymousreply 17307/27/2020

Armchair real estate porn addicts who get their panties in a bunch because a $4M house they can't begin to afford has a kitchen that isn't to their exact taste. Well change it, then, with the same money you don't have to buy the house with.

Sensible people expect to make changes when buying a house; everyone has their own scope of work their willing to undertake. The point of owning a house is that it's yours to do what you want with, not live with what a landlord has provided.

by Anonymousreply 17407/27/2020

Whoever invented open floor plans ought to have been shot.

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by Anonymousreply 17507/27/2020

Agreed, R175. There are a very few instances where they are tolerable. Two forces are at work. One, the are the idea that everyone is a Pucci pant-suited Ina Garten of a hostess around whom guests flock and engage in witty banter whilst she whips up something utterly splendid and in no time at all. Two, make them do more with less: like this shitty floor plan below where, if you are in the living room you will see your dirty dishes, pots and pans cooling from the last meal, the rag used to wipe the counter, the soap used to clean the dishes, the overflowing too small recycling bin, all out on display barely an arm's length away from the farthest seat on the sofa (it's cheap, or the cheapest thing out there, and all the Marie Kondo's and less-is-more and save-the-planet people are living in nice houses with separate kitchens while you contemplate the hum of your refrigerator and turn up the volume of the TV to drown out the dishwasher..

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by Anonymousreply 17607/27/2020

[quote]Whoever invented open floor plans ought to have been shot.

Sooo, according to your article it was Frank Lloyd Wright should be shot? Along with Architects like Richard Neutra and R.M. Schindler? I will take their vision over your opinion any day. And fortunately, so has the rest of America. It's been going in that direction for the last 80 years! Times have changed Gramps. Deal with it.

by Anonymousreply 17707/27/2020

R176, I cant imagine that small space being divided into a separate kitchen, dinning and living room. If that's all the space that is allocated for a single apartment, then open plans make for common sense. We cant all afford to live in McMansions such as yourself.

by Anonymousreply 17807/27/2020

The irony of this emphasis on glamour kitchens is that 75% of them go unused most of the time since few of any people have the inclination or desire to cook. All that stainless steel, granite, ceramic tile and laminate flooring is really unnecessary when most people are reheating take out and popping frozen shit in the microwave for their meals. Hell, even Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners can be ordered on-line and simply reheated in an oven.

by Anonymousreply 17907/27/2020

You see a lot of that in new condos r176. Last spring a friend invited me to tag along condo hunting, and she insisted on downtown. The new builds were small, tiny actually. Some had a kitchen, dining area, and living room in the same space as would have been just a living room 20 years ago. Lots of closet space, and huge bathrooms but master bedrooms maybe 9x9 in size.

But the older gut jobs were worse. Most had those seemingly random support beams on the ceilings and those dreaded drywall covered posts.

by Anonymousreply 18007/27/2020

Oh look the 1% at R179 is posting again. News flash, except for uppity NYC queens, the vast majority of people cook most of their meals. Eating out and delivery is expensive for an every day is too expensive for the average income person these days. It's done as a treat not as a regular daily lifestyle.

by Anonymousreply 18107/27/2020

[quote]I cant imagine that small space being divided into a separate kitchen, dinning and living room. If that's all the space that is allocated for a single apartment, then open plans make for common sense. We cant all afford to live in McMansions such as yourself.

Of course there's no easy way to create a kitchen from the living room at R176. You get a kitchen wall along one end exposing its ass to the shitty little living room, all because what should be a one bedroom apartment is carved into two bedrooms sacrificing a remotely decent kitchen for another bedroom. That apartment is 700 square feet, but here's one with only 376 square feet, just over half the size of the "two-bedroom," slightly less expensive, but vastly better in space because it recognizes its limitations. The tiny apartment is superior to the much bigger apartment because it sticks a very small kitchen in its own space and leaves the living room a pleasant space without stacks of dirty dishes on view, where you could wash your dirty dishes without getting up from the sofa.

It's not about McMansions, it's about providing some basic sense of decency to people at the lower and lowest rungs of the real estate ladder. In this case I've show two condos that are among the very cheapest for sale in a city center. Example A with the open kitchen and maximized economic potential (the lucky owner can take in a roommate whose dirty dishes he can admire whenever he sits in the living room) fails; Example B, smaller and somewhat cheaper, succeeds because it doesn't try to wring every cent out of the property and makes the best of a small space: a space that lent itself to being a small one-bedroom apartment was renovated as a small one-bedroom apartment.

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by Anonymousreply 18207/27/2020

R177: Yes, yes, Frank Lloyd Wright and other prominent architects designed houses that experimented with opening kitchens as part of the public spaces of a house. It's a natural progression considering a host of social changes, but those kitchens are not bare-assed ugly like Example A, they well considered.

Here's an example of one of Wright's early ones from 1933, but you see that while it is incorporated to and thoroughly connected to adjacent space it is still pulled back, still somewhat apart from the main spaces. These early designs did not have a big walloping entertaining kitchen with the refrigerator in line of sight from the front door and mom's eyes scanning from behind the cooktop island the whole of the open plan spread to see which of the kids is masturbating or crushing the dog. Open plan kitchens may not be everyone's idea of a dream house, but they can make sense in the right context. Every house, however, doesn't provide the right setting. And living in the U.S. you should know that popularity doesn't always make a thing right.

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by Anonymousreply 18307/27/2020

Open plans are a cheap ass move by developers to save money on construction and they convinced helicopter parents it was desirable.

by Anonymousreply 18407/27/2020

The chef's kitchen thing is so stupid. A simple whirlpool stove is fine for most of the cooking that most people do. These fancy over the top kitchens are just for show.

As for the open floor plan I think it's based on the way people entertain.

At every straight party I go to the guys always end up either in the kitchen drinking and talking or around a TV. While the women are grouped together in the food area. For gay parties it's the tops who are in the kitchen or around the TV and the bottoms are gossiping in the food area.

The open concept keeps everyone together in the same open space.

by Anonymousreply 18507/27/2020

There's a huge difference between an open floor plan that's designed to maximize space in a small home or apartment and the gargantuan cheap-ass nightmare that they became in oversized homes with absurd layouts. A good designer can create an open floor plan that makes a small space feel bigger but still allows some measures of division, with tricks like floating kitchen cabinets, island bars, half walls, wall windows, etc. At the other end of the spectrum are those homes that are so large that a wide open floor plan simply makes no sense. A floor plan with something called a "great room" is a big red flag that it's a cheap and poorly crafted mess.

A design such as this makes the kitchen feel like a separate room, but you still get the benefits of an open layout. I'd prefer floating cabinets to shelves, but that's just personal preference. Plus it maximizes counter (which should be the #1 priority for any kitchen design) and storage space in what would otherwise be an absurdly tiny kitchen.

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by Anonymousreply 18607/27/2020

Compare ^ that to this, which is just stupid:

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by Anonymousreply 18707/27/2020

R187, that looks like the clubhouse at my aunt's retirement community.

by Anonymousreply 18807/27/2020

R152 is dead wrong, the hype over open plans is already tempering. This article about it was conveniently published today.

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by Anonymousreply 18907/27/2020

Well R187, in a retirement community it makes sense to have one GIANT room with no dividers whatsoever where everyone can see everything and everyone at all times in case someone keels over and needs help. In a large home, though, it just means a cheap builder tricked some dupe into thinking it was a hot trend.

by Anonymousreply 19007/27/2020

R179, WTH do you live?! And whence your bold assertions about how "few....people have any inclination or desire to cook"?!

Talking out of your ass.

by Anonymousreply 19107/27/2020

In the suburban house where I grew up, the kitchen / dining / living areas were in an L shape. The dining area was at the corner of the L. There was a large pass-through between the kitchen and the dining room. No wall between the dining / living rooms. The dining room table did get used a fair bit: for homework, overflow projects from the kitchen, etc.

City apartment living is a different story. Unless you're very wealthy, you'd be lucky to get a small kitchen with a small, combined living/dining area.

I don't mind the open concept so much. My preference is something like what I grew up with (semi-open).

by Anonymousreply 19207/27/2020

R189, that link is to an article about open offices, not open kitchen/dining/living spaces. The bit at the end about homes doesn't really say much at all, other than comments from a single designer.

Personally, I moved to an open floor plan in my old circa-1939 home because the space was small and the rooms were claustrophobic. Opening it up made a huge difference and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

My current home doesn't have that problem and it would be much more problematic to try to come up with an open plan that makes sense, so I'm leaving it alone, with separate kitchen, dining room, and living room.

by Anonymousreply 19307/27/2020

How often are these fucking people "entertaining" that they feel they need their kitchen open to the entire living room?

by Anonymousreply 19407/27/2020

I hate the mixture of stainless steel and brass hardware in the same room. That to me it is as bad as the top cabinets being a different color than the bottom cabinets.

by Anonymousreply 19507/27/2020

How often are people "entertaining" that they need a completely separate and discrete "dining room"?

by Anonymousreply 19607/27/2020

If you spend more than 15 minutes in the kitchen when you have guests over, you are entertaining wrong.

by Anonymousreply 19707/27/2020

I think having a “messy kitchen” behind the open concept show kitchen is more pretentious than a separate formal dining room.

by Anonymousreply 19807/27/2020

Having your kitchen area open to the sitting area (whether it's a dining or living room) makes sense if your home is small enough that you don't want guests crowded into one area, or don't have room for the kind of furniture you need to lay out your meals (or cocktails). So it makes sense for an apartment or home such as R186--you can imagine someone using the kitchen as part of the staging area, or needing to be in the kitchen to mix the drinks, and with a large number of guests you'll have people both sitting and standing/moving around. But no one in the kitchen in R187 is going to be chit-chatting with someone sitting on the couch, unless you enjoy chit-chat by shouting. The wide open layout in a huge home serves no functional purpose except to advertise that you paid way too much for it.

by Anonymousreply 19907/27/2020

[quote] I think having a “messy kitchen” behind the open concept show kitchen is more pretentious than a separate formal dining room.

IMO, it's not pretentious to have a separate formal dining room. Especially if your house / apartment tends to be the usual gathering place for occasions (e.g., Thanksgiving). To insist that everybody should have that type of dining room is silly, though. It's just not feasible or even desirable for everybody.

by Anonymousreply 20007/27/2020

As one believes above linked Atlantic article made clear formal dining rooms began to vanish from middle class households at least thanks in large part to living without servants.

Back when even middle class homes could afford (and find) an army of servants including maids, cooks, and childminders a separate dining room made sense. Madame wasn't the one doing the cooking, and thus didn't have to worry about also supervising her children and or running a household while cranking out three or four meals per day.

As servants vanished home design changed. Instead of formal dining rooms by 1960's or whatever you got dining areas off living rooms that allowed Madame to still see out and supervise but still stuck segregated away from her family in kitchen. Worse without childminders most suburban women had no other choice but to bring infants and children into kitchen instead of leaving them alone in other part of house. That is unless they were old enough to be left alone say in dining area or living room where a mother could still peer out and monitor.

Legions of children grew up doing homework at kitchen tables because that is where their mothers were in hours after school. There or again that dining room table in dining area off living room that could be seen from kitchen.

You look at Edwina's house in Ab Fab. That huge place with a very lovely sitting room and IIRC even dining room on main floor, but yet as in real life homes all action took place in kitchen downstairs.

That was and still is issue with row/town house living. They were largely designed for an era of servants, thus kitchens are downstairs, while living and entertaining spaces are above. That worked out well in Victorian and Edwardian times; but when servants vanished housewives were on their own trudging up and down several flights of stairs all day long.

Many who purchase those old row or town houses will knock down wall or otherwise open things up between dining and living room to create one great open space. If there is a way possible they will also move kitchen or add another on main floor to avoid having to trudge up and down stairs all day.

by Anonymousreply 20107/27/2020

I have to wonder at some of the rules on kitchen design here (and across the interwebs I should add). In the real world you get the floorspace and budget you can afford and try to make the best of it. After nearly 20 years coping with a tiny 6x8 ft kitchen with about 2 ft of usable bench space I finally had the money, time and energy to do a home renovation. 90% of the "rules" posted here just don't apply if you've got such a small space to play with. By knocking out the wall between the kitchen and dining I gained an extra 20 inches of bench space, moving the fridge into the dining space got me another 2 feet, putting in a single tub sink got me a corner cabinet with a lazy susan, reducing the bench depth on one side to 20 inches got me a slimline dishwasher and two good sets of drawers.

I'm in kitchen heaven now. I wouldn't care if the whole thing was done in baby pink with the world's ugliest cabinets.

by Anonymousreply 20207/27/2020

R202 that’s awesome you love your kitchen but to many people aesthetics are an important component too.

by Anonymousreply 20307/27/2020

Does one need a library in the kitchen?

Moisture & paper don't mix.

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by Anonymousreply 20407/27/2020

Bring back servants!

by Anonymousreply 20507/27/2020

[quote]I don't mind cabinets that don't reach the ceiling in some instances. I think with super high cabinets you'd try to store things that aren't used that much at the very top.

That's where the hoarded toilet paper goes, sillies!

by Anonymousreply 20607/27/2020

I used to rent in a home laid out similarly to the one in R137's post, and despised it. Whoever thought putting bedrooms right next to the noisiest areas of a house should be shot. I broke my lease and moved as soon as I could.

by Anonymousreply 20707/27/2020

That place pictured at R187 looks like a bitch to heat.

by Anonymousreply 20807/27/2020

R182, that kitchen is a torture closet for anyone who loves to cook. No thank you, I will take an open kitchen plan in a small place like that any day. Besides, what with the "dirty dishes" mantra? How long do you leave that shit to pile up in your sink? How many people are you actually entertaining in a 350sq ft apartment? I clean up my kitchen after every meal, it's not that hard for 1 or 2 people. You sound like a hoarder.

by Anonymousreply 20907/27/2020

I would feel trapped in R186 kitchen, those shelves would have to go, the counter could stay. I would love, love love a kitchen like the R187. I like to cook, and some of the things I make can takes hours. During those times I am out about the house doing other things but need to pop in say every 15 minutes to check on things or make sure something hasn't boiled over. An open plan makes that a dream, a closed off room makes it a pain in the ass.

by Anonymousreply 21007/27/2020

Reading these posts people don’t seem to have a problem with open concept when there are space and budget limitations or an older home with tiny rooms being opened up some. It’s the cavernous McMansions built from scratch with space galore who choose a great room with a floating island as the ideal layout.

by Anonymousreply 21107/27/2020

[quote]the hype over open plans is already tempering. This article about it was conveniently published today.

Dream on Gramps. One article dose not a movement make. And if you bothered to read it says nothing about closing off kitchens. Mostly talks about walls and partitions coming back into office spaces which I agree with. Dedicated rooms for Yoga? Really? That's your argument?

by Anonymousreply 21207/27/2020

This is why they are not going away anytime soon. From the people who actually buy houses and live in them, not from the builders or architects that have theories about it.

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by Anonymousreply 21307/27/2020

An open plan doesn't mean it's always a great room or nothing. There is a big difference and I will concede I never liked the idea of one giant room. But conversely, I think kitchens open to a dining room are a must if you actually like to entertain. People love hanging out it kitchens. They just do, that's where all the action is unless you are so wealthy that you have a cooking staff.

by Anonymousreply 21407/27/2020

I have lived in two 1300 sq ft bungalows and would never part with my walls. They absorbed sound and made the place seem larger (more rooms, more destinations). Open plan houses of the same size just feel like apartments to me. I guess they’re fine if you live alone.

Also, more walls, more places to hang art.

Most pre-war Craftsman houses have high ceilings, so it didn’t feel claustrophobic to me at all. I prefer a more hygge vibe, though, so to each their own.

by Anonymousreply 21507/27/2020

R213, I’d say a home building company has a lot invested in convincing the masses they need cheap open plans.

by Anonymousreply 21607/27/2020

The hidden "messy" kitchen solves nothing, for the cooking elements are still in the open concept zone, with attendant smells, vapors, and noise. And why would the person cooking want the refrigerator in a different area behind them?

IOW, just put the entire kitchen behind the wall.

by Anonymousreply 21707/27/2020

Here's the opposite of horrible kitchen design, just a big, airy room beautifully fitted as a kitchen, with loads of storage in the pantry beyond.

Of course you will hate it.

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by Anonymousreply 21807/28/2020

R218 - Ooooh.. Beautiful! On the contrary, I love many of their offerings. What a find!

by Anonymousreply 21907/28/2020

Yes R218 that kitchen is horribly dreary and depressing. I guess if you like pretending you live in the turn of the 20th century then that fits the bill. Not for me or most people under they age of 60.

by Anonymousreply 22007/28/2020

R220, check out some of the company's other offerings. Very well done.

by Anonymousreply 22107/28/2020

[quote] cooking elements are still in the open concept zone, with attendant smells, vapors, and noise. And why would the person cooking want the refrigerator in a different area behind them?

How bad is your cooking that it stinks! Food is supposed to smell good r218. Watching the prep and process is something people like to do. Have you never been to a high class restaurant where all the chefs are in a kitchen behind a clear glass wall so you can see how the magic is made? A good meal is more than just a plate of food shoved in front of you from another room, its about the build up of the whole process which wets the apatite. That includes something smelling good as it cooks and the anticipation that builds as your senses kick into high gear for what's to come.

As for refrigerators, behind them? Not sure what you are talking about but speak to any professional kitchen designer and they will explain to you about the working triangle of the stove, the refrigerator and the sink. Linear design like a galley kitchen or a large enclosed room with appliance at opposite ends is probably the worst configuration you could have. Just as a purely functional level that is.

by Anonymousreply 22207/28/2020


by Anonymousreply 22307/28/2020

[quote] everyone has their own scope of work their willing to undertake.

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 22407/28/2020

[quote] with attendant smells,

Perhaps you should hire different attendants if yours stink.

by Anonymousreply 22507/28/2020

[quote]Have you never been to a high class restaurant where all the chefs are in a kitchen behind a clear glass wall so you can see how the magic is made?

Yes. Though we part ways on watching the magic being made. For me, it's the food first and secondly the whole experience. A visible kitchen in one thing, especially in a small restaurant where it's an aspect of the limited space, but too much kitchen theatre and and tableside preparation is...forced, like a Benihana on a cruise ship, or harkening back to asking the field slaves to whistle and do a little dance while picking cotton.

As for smelling food, of course good food smells good—but that's before you sit down to eat. No matter how good the pot roast, curry, roast chicken, wood-fired pizza, crema catalana, or whatever smells before sitting down to eat, I don't want to smell it for hours after I've eaten.

by Anonymousreply 22607/28/2020

Working for a catering company I hate open plan kitchens just for the fact I don’t want the guests lingering and watching while we’re working. I interact with them usually but there are times they just need to leave us alone. I especially hate when we’re arranging appetizers to be passed and guests will walk up and start grabbing stuff before we’re finished with a tray. We just grit our teeth and say No problem. But this is a very specific grievance with open plan.

For myself I’m actually looking at houses right now. I like some openness for entertaining but I don’t like the giant cavernous room with a kitchen at one end. I like a kitchen with a large island and even an eating area that flows to a family room or “keeping room” as realtors here call them, but I still like a separate dining room as well especially with a butler’s pantry between the kitchen and dining room. You can get away with less upper cabinets if a lot of the stuff is moved to a butler’s pantry. In my city at least, the vast majority of higher end houses are “open plan” like I described in that yes the kitchen is open to A living and informal dining area but there still dining rooms and other living areas in other parts of the house that flow from one to the other. They may not have full walls between but it’s not just one giant room with a kitchen stuck on one wall.

by Anonymousreply 22707/28/2020

[quote] tableside preparation is...forced, like a Benihana on a cruise ship, or harkening back to asking the field slaves to whistle and do a little dance while picking cotton.

I hope you have a safe parachute to softly land after your giant leap.

by Anonymousreply 22807/28/2020

Seen this multiple times in Europe: toilet one door away from the kitchen and extraction fans over stove tops that don't vent anywhere. Yikes.

by Anonymousreply 22907/28/2020

Kitchen starts at 7:46. What do you all think of the more modern design? It's both open but separated off from other rooms.

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by Anonymousreply 23007/28/2020

That is my dream house at R230

What do we think of islands with sinks and dishwashers?

by Anonymousreply 23107/28/2020

We this thread makes me even more glad that I don't cook or entertain people worth a damn. As long as my coffeemaker, fridge and microwave are working, I'm good!

by Anonymousreply 23207/28/2020

I like it too R231! I like the the natural light floor to ceiling windows bring, but I'm sure they're expensive and a pain in the ass to keep clean. But would people consider it an "open floor plan?" It seems so, but the rooms connecting to the kitchen also appear to have their own distinctiveness.

by Anonymousreply 23307/28/2020

I love the kitchen at R218! The one at R230 is also great, it is open but still defined and doesn’t face the main room.

by Anonymousreply 23407/28/2020

Gotta love the queen insisting that most people don’t cook in their kitchens and rely on servants and takeout to feed themselves. Does this bitch ever get the fuck out and talk to actual people???

by Anonymousreply 23507/28/2020

This is all very helpful, as we are planning someday to completely redo our kitchen, which is original to the 1957 ranch style home. We've lived with it for 5 years since we bought it, and it's certainly a conversation piece with guests, who marvel that the original wall oven and electric stovetop still work, and the boomerang Formica countertops. The knotty pine cabinetry, although in pristine condition, just isn't very nice to look at.

We'd never knock down any walls to make it the dreaded open concept, but I do like the idea of a large center island, perhaps with a sink and dishwasher as in the video at r230

by Anonymousreply 23607/28/2020

My aunt lives in a modern dream home that is shaped like an L. The large kitchen is in the short end of the L. It has a huge island with a second sink, and tons of storage space. In the crook of the L adjacent to the kitchen is the "family room" with TV, then as you progress down the long part of the L, large dining table, and beyond that, the "living room" area with fireplace and more formal seating.

Because of the size of the house she's able to accommodate the entire extended family and friends for large parties. At first, everyone congregates in the kitchen family area, gobbling appetizers and getting in the way of the "chefs" (family and friends who can cook). The dining/living area is large enough to set up tables for a large sit down dinner.

It's fabulous for entertaining, but when empty, not particularly cozy. At that time just the kitchen and family sections get used.

by Anonymousreply 23707/28/2020

[quote] boomerang Formica countertops.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this?

by Anonymousreply 23807/28/2020


A design of Formica countertops, for example.

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by Anonymousreply 23907/28/2020

Open plan design is the architectural equivalent of LIVE LAUGH LOVE.

by Anonymousreply 24007/28/2020

R222, Did you actually look at the "messy kitchen" design? The refrigerator is behind the wall; the range is in front of it.

And presumably you've heard of garlic, fish, onions, cumin, steam, ....? Ingredients before they comprise the final dish sometimes are best left in the kitchen and not the living room. Speaking of others, not myself. I have a good friend who cannot stand the smells of Mexican or Indian food.

by Anonymousreply 24107/28/2020

Thanks, r239!

by Anonymousreply 24207/28/2020

[quote]We'd never knock down any walls to make it the dreaded open concept, but I do like the idea of a large center island, perhaps with a sink and dishwasher as in the video at [R230]

R236: A big kitchen can be a great thing, big enough to do what is needed of the space. A center island, open to a large dining table...I see why people like these things, but for me a kitchen should be its own space, defined not just by having appliances and a sink and countertop surfaces, but by a break in or a different ceiling, or a wall of windows, or some design cue to help define the space (without closing it off like a tomb.) A big kitchen that opens into another space can be great if the way that they are both joined and apart is well considered.

What doesn't work for me are big amorphic spaces where there's no architecture, just a horizontal sprawl of one vague shape opening into another vague shape—the "I can see your refrigerator from the front door" or "Even though it's quiet as a kitten's purr I can hear that fucking expensive dishwasher all the way across the house on this sofa because bwteen me and the dishwasher it's just a big vois with some random sofas."

The pic below shows an open plan kitchen that looks like it dropped from space and left to orbit on its own inside a big amorphic house. It look like a concept restaurant at the international departures lounge, or a cooking school, or a vignette from a kitchen sales showroom. There's no connection to the rest of the house, it's just that that part of the house ends there, behind the kitchen sink. Is the baggage claim behind those closets? The point is that when a kitchen is open plan it should be planned in concert with the spaces its open to, not just pushed off in isolation to the side. It looks lost and is because there's no architecture, just a kitchen way over there looking a bit lost.

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by Anonymousreply 24307/28/2020

R233, it's definitely on the more acceptable end of the open floor plan with the architectural markers to separate out the rooms. Plus it helps that it's a linear plan divided in I think thirds, which is aesthetically pleasing, as opposed to a giant open space with no sensible divisions.

by Anonymousreply 24407/28/2020

Modiani kitchen.... Italian, modern, and minimal.

Minimalism is my thing right now.

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by Anonymousreply 24507/28/2020


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by Anonymousreply 24607/28/2020

R236, if the cabinets are in good shape, consider painting or staining them instead of replacing. It's a lot of work to do it right, but it's much cheaper, especially since it's hard to get that level of quality wood cabinetry now without busting your budget. Plus you can get so much more creative with color and design.

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by Anonymousreply 24707/28/2020

R247 perhaps this is a dumb question but I have no idea, can you stain wood cabinets a lighter color if they're dark, or is the only option to paint at that point?

by Anonymousreply 24807/28/2020

Thanks r247. We've consider that, as well as refacing them, but we've been saving towards doing a major overhaul of the kitchen, custom cabinetry included.

We are a little hesitant, only because it's such a nice "time capsule" for 1957, but the novelty is starting to wear off. It's a big sized space, but lots of windows and entries to other parts of the house to work around.

by Anonymousreply 24907/28/2020

The Great British Bake-Off show proved to me, you don't need a big kitchen. Each contestant has an "island" with countertop, burners and sink on the top, and ovens and storage below (and you could have cupboards above, for food and dishes). Refrigerator/freezer and dishwasher in a separate place, perhaps at the ends of the main island. And that's it.

by Anonymousreply 25007/28/2020

R248 -- since you have no idea, it is not a dumb question. Finished wood, stained and sealed, is different than painted wood. Generally, paint sits in a layer on top of the surface that is painted - you can paint something that is painted dark a lighter color, it just might take more than one coat. Stain is a coloring agent applied to bare wood, and it is absorbed by the wood - "staining" it. Stained wood is still porous so it is sealed with a clear layer to protect the stain - varnish or poly. You can't re-stain wood with out removing the protective layer, and if you want to go lighter the thin layer of wood that as absorbed the dark stain - so chemical strippers and/or sanding is required.

You can however paint over finished stained wood - this was done a great deal in the past to "lighten up" dark old woodwork -- people either feel it is a "fresh look" or akin to murdering you grandmother.

by Anonymousreply 25107/28/2020

R248, depending on the condition of the wood and the finishing, you might be able to stain it lighter than its current color. If you can sand it down thoroughly and in that process you either remove an already existing stain or lighten up the face of the wood, you could then apply a lighter stain to finish it. There are also ways to bleach wood, but you have to be really careful that you know what you're doing. The good thing is that as long as you doing ruin the wood, if you can't get it to a color and finish you like you can always paint it as an alternative.

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by Anonymousreply 25207/28/2020

^ Forgot to add, if you want to do this yourself definitely practice on some furniture or other items you don't mind messing up before you tackle something as expensive to replace as your kitchen cabinets!

by Anonymousreply 25307/28/2020

thank you R251 and R252! 😗

by Anonymousreply 25407/28/2020

I've lived in so many older apartments that I miss the old, built in place, cabinets. They're more flexible.

by Anonymousreply 25507/28/2020

Sure, R245.

A dago kitchenette for Sicilian dwarves and no one else can see the sink they're using.

Try "minimalistic usefulness."

by Anonymousreply 25607/28/2020

Those cabinets at r245 look like they belong in a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon’s office.

by Anonymousreply 25707/28/2020

I made my first "gourmet" meal on a hotplate on the hallway floor outside my dorm room. Great cooks just don't need all that BS to serve up fabulous meals. An old friend built a house in the suburbs with everything you could dream of. She had a bunch of house warming parties including a dinner party with everyone oohing and awing over the kitchen. Everything - and I mean everything - she served tasted awful. Even the chicken was terrible. Considering it's pretty hard to ruin chicken I think she had a special skill for bad cooking or she just had taste issues.

In the olden days people wanted kitchens separate because the kitchen was full of noise including after with the dishwasher going.

I don't want to look at the kitchen still in disarray while I am eating a meal and I' not interested in washing up before I sit down to eat. As much as I love cooking, I also have no desire to watch a restaurant staff cook my meals when I spend money to have someone else cook for me. But that's just me.

by Anonymousreply 25807/28/2020

Nobody needs a chefs kitchen with custom cabinetry, a six burner stove, marble countertops and two dishwashers. It doesn’t make food taste better. However it might be something some people enjoy and that’s great.

by Anonymousreply 25907/28/2020

R258 You can make a nice meal on a hot plate, and doing so will force you to understand the techniques, but if you've got the space and money why not have something nicer? If your taste is utilitarian it can be as modest as you like while still being more convenient.

by Anonymousreply 26007/28/2020

Actually two dishwashers means you rarely have to empty them and put stuff away in the cupboards. It’s very practical if you’re lazy.

by Anonymousreply 26107/28/2020

I loved several of those kitchens at R218 .But sometimes I want to just leave the dishes soaking overnight. Sometimes just dont feel like cleaning up after I cook . I dont want the whole damn world to see that nor do I want to have to look at it all night. Definitely in the seperate kitchen camp .

by Anonymousreply 26207/28/2020

[quote]I like it too [R231]! I like the the natural light floor to ceiling windows bring, but I'm sure they're expensive and a pain in the ass to keep clean. But would people consider it an "open floor plan?" It seems so, but the rooms connecting to the kitchen also appear to have their own distinctiveness.

Absolutely, it's the really the definition of a well executed open plan. For some reason, some of the old trolls on this thread think the word means "kitchen in great room". It's really the great room that is the cause of their angst.

by Anonymousreply 26307/28/2020

"Great room' is such a dopey term.

by Anonymousreply 264Last Wednesday at 12:24 AM

A kitchen wants its own room; cooking is noisy, dirty, and worst of all, wet.

by Anonymousreply 265Last Wednesday at 5:14 AM

Why is this thread dying? We can't POSSIBLY have seen all the horribleness.

by Anonymousreply 266Last Wednesday at 4:31 PM

R249, I completely understand if you didn’t want to do this but would you consider posting pics of your kitchen?

I would LOVE to see that.

by Anonymousreply 267Last Thursday at 7:05 AM

My parents’ mid-90s kitchen renovation featured beveled oak cabinets and Corion countertops. The Corion has held up remarkably well.

by Anonymousreply 268Last Thursday at 7:12 AM


by Anonymousreply 269Last Thursday at 7:13 AM

With all the love for mid century modern, I’m surprised Formica hasn’t revived the atomic patterns. I looked at their website last week and nada.

by Anonymousreply 270Last Thursday at 7:35 AM

R270 you must not have looked too hard, they sell it at Lowe's and Home Depot.

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by Anonymousreply 271Last Thursday at 8:09 AM

Linkie Stinkie

by Anonymousreply 272Last Thursday at 8:11 AM

Formica's competitor, Wilsonart, also sells it

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by Anonymousreply 273Last Thursday at 8:12 AM

[quote] beveled oak cabinets

Who wants to dust and clean that surface? The flatter and simpler the better.

Pretty doesn't always win the race. Never mind. I forgot where I was.

by Anonymousreply 274Last Thursday at 8:47 AM

Huge mirrors for the stovetop backsplash. Always greasy and hard to clean. It was the stupidest kitchen I ever saw.

by Anonymousreply 275Last Thursday at 8:56 AM

R275 in a thread full of bad ideas, that might be the worst. Who would want a mirror behind the stove? "I like seeing my face over a flame."

by Anonymousreply 276Last Thursday at 9:34 AM

A glass backsplash is so much better than a mirror. I saw a beautiful opaque or frosted glass backsplash in a kitchen once and I was insanely jealous. This pic isn't quite it, but close:

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by Anonymousreply 277Last Thursday at 9:58 AM

For those who like the idea of glass backsplashes, here's Donna & Lyla's 1930s Vitrolite glass walled kitchen in St. Louis.

I've had a couple of friends with big Victorian piles that had had their kitchens remodelled in the 1920s-1930s with Vitolite opaque glass panels, the stuff more commonly seen in cafes, diners, and shop fronts of the period. It's a eye-catching effect, and a bit echo-y, but rather nice. One friend was a professional baker and used hers as a sort of test kitchen, but she was also a bit fanatical about kitchen cleanliness and was attracted to the kitchen for that reason. It was always as clean as a doctor's surgery (no buckets of moldy jam in her kitchen.)

It was a pain to replace damaged pieces without damaging adjacent areas, and at the time you had to buy salvaged tiles. It's reproduced in the last twenty years, so less of a problem.

The mirror thing made some sense in that I first saw it in city kitchens as a backsplash between countertop and hanging cupboards in the 1980s and it was used with under-cabinet light strips to brighten up kitchen remodels in older apartments often with just one small window. Around a stove though, there's not much that can justify that except a love of cleaning glass.

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by Anonymousreply 278Last Thursday at 10:16 AM

R278, ugh no, too much. Many design elements need to be applied sparingly and wall glass/tile/backsplash is one of them. I also love glass subway tiles as backsplash, but there's too much of it in this pic, for example. One wall should be the absolute max, and I would have kept it to only the rectangle over the stove.

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by Anonymousreply 279Last Thursday at 10:34 AM

I fucking hate backsplash except at a stove or maybe a sink, or unless the whole kitchen is or tiled. It's quite useless in most places where it's popularly used and it's just a kitschy trendy detail where the owner gets to pick out way too many favorite colors.

by Anonymousreply 280Last Thursday at 10:41 AM

Yes, I forgot that I found it at Wilsonart.

by Anonymousreply 281Last Thursday at 10:42 AM

French Country style kitchen with GIANT range hoods. I call it doll house design.

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by Anonymousreply 282Last Friday at 2:40 AM

I love it, r282!

by Anonymousreply 283Last Friday at 3:24 AM

Jesus, fuck, that's a shit ton of apples at r282.

by Anonymousreply 284Last Friday at 5:07 AM

[quote] Jesus, fuck, that's a shit ton of apples at [R282].


by Anonymousreply 285Last Friday at 5:46 AM

Omg! That is absolutely stunning!!!!!!

Love it, R282. Wow!!!!

Sucks to be poor 😟

by Anonymousreply 286Last Friday at 7:11 AM

Some of you have horrible taste (r282, r283, r286)

by Anonymousreply 287Last Friday at 7:38 AM

That’s good, though.

Imagine what a boring world it would be if everyone’s kitchen looked the same.

by Anonymousreply 288Last Friday at 7:41 AM

I can see the appeal of R282 but for me it's another example of just too much. Doll house design is a good description. If I wanted a French Country Kitchen I'd need to balance out the twee with a more subtle and modern approach.

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by Anonymousreply 289Last Friday at 8:03 AM

Oh the SHADE, R285!

by Anonymousreply 290Last Friday at 9:40 AM

I like your analysis, R201.

I understand that British Victorian homes were designed so that the Master and Mistress never had to enter 'the green baize door'. These doors separated the servants' quarters from the main rooms. Green baize, similar to a billiard table cloth was tacked to the door to deaden the servants' noise.

by Anonymousreply 291Last Friday at 7:13 PM

My place was built in 1926 but the kitchen cabinets were oak crap from the 1990s, which we painted.

Later I found out a neighbor bought the original cabinets from our place, as well as from a few other places on our street. It looked ok at his place, especially the glass doors, but he hadn't done a good job of installing them. So half assed.

I'd love to have the original cabinets, I'd know how to install them. I still have some original cabinets, in a small butlers pantry.

by Anonymousreply 292Last Friday at 10:10 PM

I love little tidbits like r291 posted.

Fascinating look into the past.

by Anonymousreply 293Last Saturday at 6:32 AM

My only constant fault I find are huge American refrigerators that jut out... even in expensive complete renos. Nothing else bothers me as much. One friend solved this problem in her 1900s kitchen by taking the door and frame off a deep enough pantry, stuck the fridge in there, and had the frame and door put back on. It was perfect, and it eliminated the range being next to the fridge.

Her live-in boyfriend constantly complained about having to open the door however. Rightfully so, she told him he was just lazy.

by Anonymousreply 294Last Saturday at 6:44 AM

[quote] Her live-in boyfriend constantly complained about having to open the door however. Rightfully so, she told him he was just lazy.

I’m with the boyfriend. That sounds like a silly idea for me done for no other reason than aesthetics when she probably spent a small fortune on the refrigerator.

by Anonymousreply 295Last Saturday at 7:00 AM

R295 Funny, but you have two very big things reversed. She's spent, and continues to spend a lot on the live in boyfriend, and it's not his home, so it isn't up to him. The fridge was amongst the lowest priced models available.

The reason to tuck the fridge in this deep closet was to AVOID paying the premium one must in the states to obtain counter-depth, or other smaller than average sizes. She purchased a simple white enamel standard big box store fridge with a single door for fridge, and a smaller freezer above.

This also allowed her to have drawers and cabinets flanking her range now, and work space, whereas the prior set up was just those two appliances next to each other...

The previous fridge was not only unsightly that it jutted out, but was a hazard to traffic patterns. No bench or worktop space near a range is a serious challenge for a cook. Let the boyfriend purchase and renovate his own house.

by Anonymousreply 296Last Saturday at 8:30 AM

Did she have a separate large pantry after putting the fridge the previous one? I’m not sure I like this idea either but whatever works for her.

by Anonymousreply 297Last Saturday at 9:21 AM

R297 No, but there was still a bit of room to store some food in the one: there were a few shelves, and they kept things on top of the fridge. It wasn't quite a butler's pantry, yet larger than an average closet. I had imagined an old ice chest may have been in there originally. I would describe it as Craftsman/Cottage style. Very tiny all around. That original fridge was at the end of a short wall impeding easy passage to a bathroom, and the range was in the corner.

by Anonymousreply 298Last Saturday at 9:37 AM

R57, if the dishes you handwash are unsanitary, maybe you need to swallow your pride and ask someone to teach you how to do it.

Handwashed dishes should be more sanitary than those that go through a dishwasher. And they will be when you learn how to wash a dish.

by Anonymousreply 299Last Saturday at 10:13 AM

Refrigerators need proper ventilation or else they can overheat. The person who enclosed one in a closet is going to regret that when the house is burning down.

by Anonymousreply 300Last Saturday at 10:39 AM

R298 - I understand space limitations (I live in a tiny apartment) but a fridge behind a closed door is objectively inconvenient. Would the layout of the space made it have been possible to just remove and enlarge the doorway to create an open alcove off the kitchen containing a large (nicer looking) fridge and some other nice looking storage shelves and the like?

by Anonymousreply 301Last Saturday at 10:40 AM

R300 Calm down, there's plenty of room in there, very deep, as well as a window. The kitchen was done years ago now, and everyone is alive and well. Fridge is still working.

by Anonymousreply 302Last Saturday at 10:44 AM

Exactly, R301. That's the solution.

Depending on the type of construction,it's sometimes much cheaper to carve out a slight niche behind a refrigerator to all it to fit flush with the front counter edge. The alternative if buying the space specific appliance that's 2" shallower usually costs an extortionant premium.

Appliance manufacturers sell a few grades of appliance but in carapaces and trim sets that spell out loudly and clearly the level of luxury. Two identical oven/cookstops identical in function and specs, but one will have an ugly set of cheap plastic knobs.and the.other a slightly refined oven door window detail and comparatively beautiful knobs, but at nearly $1000 more for the premium grade. Same with counter depth appliances except that the uptick in price is even greater.

Why does your dog kick his ass all the time? Because he can.

by Anonymousreply 303Last Saturday at 10:49 AM

There were a few reasons my friend and her Interior Designer decided not to scrap her pantry/walk-in closet altogether. The panelled door, and the doorframe were original to the home, with a beautiful walnut finish, original hardware, etc. There would have been some symmetry lost as a result, as there was a similar, yet slightly more narrow door leading out the kitchen to her back steps on the same wall to the left.

The floor in the pantry had a very dark, possibly original finish, and had some mastic like coating in spaces. The original hardwood floors were already sanded and refinished perfectly shortly before she purchased the home. I believe she was a bit reticent to also remove plaster of that period, as it may have required asbestos abatement, which is very costly in Chicago.

Then there was that strange little window, which originally was more than likely a pass through for ice block delivery. Sounds to me as if she made the best decision. The pantry was rather deep, so things such as mops, a broom, and other unsightly things would have lost a home. There were no other closets in her kitchen, and no linen closet in her adjacent loo.

by Anonymousreply 304Last Saturday at 11:55 AM

We just redid our kitchen and we bought black stainless appliances with a counter-depth fridge. After 30 years of fingerprints on regular SS, I'm so happy I did this. The loss of space in the fridge is very manageable by just configuring the shelves correctly.

by Anonymousreply 305Last Sunday at 4:55 AM

[quote]Fridge is still working.

And so is our relationship, which still pisses off r294.

by Anonymousreply 306Last Sunday at 5:03 AM

Stainless steel appliances were one of those things that I assumed were going to be a quick fad and then disappear. I used to work in restaurants in the Eighties and early Nineties and always thought that the stainless steel appliances in restaurant kitchens were so ugly.

No idea why they’ve been so popular now for decades.

by Anonymousreply 307Last Sunday at 5:15 AM

I still love this kitchen from 17 years ago. The stainless appliances and subway tiles might not be exciting but it hasn’t hasn’t aged much.

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by Anonymousreply 308Last Sunday at 5:22 AM

Two islands! Why did I never think of that?

by Anonymousreply 309Last Sunday at 5:32 AM

I wonder if kitchen carpeting will ever come back.

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by Anonymousreply 310Last Sunday at 5:34 AM

R306 Why would you say that? I happen to own a home, as well as a vacation condo and my partner would never tell me how to decorate or organise either of them. He owns a property as well, and I don't feel it's my place to make demands, or change anything.

I'm also somewhat conservative insofar as the belief women ought to make the decisions for their decorating, of course unless their husband happens to be a gay man.... a loose rendition on one of Jonathan Adler's designing tenets... The boyfriend never cooks, so his POV is irrelevant logically. I think you just like to snare people into senseless arguments. If he wanted a more of a declarative role, he ought to have at least proposed, or coughed up some money for the inordinately expensive shallow fridge.

by Anonymousreply 311Last Sunday at 6:11 AM

R308: There are a few clues to that design being 17 years old, but few and subtle. It's of its time but holds up very well because the designer smartly avoided all the trendy motifs and bells and whistles of the day. There are no novelty edges to the (soapstone?) countertops, no fat cigar-like columns at the corners of the cabinetry, no flourish to the stove hood, the flush-set drawers and cabinet doors are a classic and more costly to execute design, but the only flourish at all is in the turned foot of at least one island and the hardware, again, not as popular today as 17 years ago, but a classic design that's been in production for 140 years and can look old or new depending on its use. The hanging light fixtures and the design of the drop-in sink help date the design but make make the space look dated. They avoided the mistake of making things too specifically trendy so that someone who knows kitchens to date it to within a couple of years just by sight.

Not everyone will like this kitchen of course, but I think it's fair to say that it does hold up well.

by Anonymousreply 312Last Sunday at 6:25 AM

I have a smaller kitchen with higher ceilings so my cabinets don't go to the ceiling. I don't know what I would have chosen had my contractor suggested it. But I have a few things stored there (large soup pot, speckled roasting pan, not cluttered so it's ok). Plus my cabinets already cost 8000 dollars of my budget and like I said it's a small kitchen. I hate clutter, busy or glass back splashes, granite and even marble counter tops, islands. Although I did have marble windowsills made out of a cocktail table. My appliances are in a triangle and they aren't all stainless matchy- matchy. I live in an old house (1910) so I wanted to make it kind of an old world look with a little bit of unusual.

by Anonymousreply 313Last Sunday at 6:26 AM

R313 I share your same aesthetic concerns for smaller older homes. Not everything popular today is appropriate for these small kitchens in modest homes. My home is 1870s, and opted to keep much of the kitchen "un-fitted", and work with the forties and fifties aspect of what was there when I had purchased it. Too much marble, granite, and other trendy materials don't make much sense.

by Anonymousreply 314Last Sunday at 6:36 AM

I said:

[quote] when she probably spent a small fortune on the refrigerator.

To which you replied:

[quote]The fridge was amongst the lowest priced models available.

Now you’re saying:

[quote] or coughed up some money for the [bold]inordinately expensive shallow fridge.[/bold]


by Anonymousreply 315Last Sunday at 7:58 AM

R186 what is also stupid is keeping food serving ware on open shelves.

by Anonymousreply 316Last Sunday at 8:06 AM

R315 what he is saying is that by putting the cheap, ugly bigger fridge in the pantry closet hidden behind a door, the girlfriend didn’t have to spend top dollar for a beautiful, shallow fridge to fit into the renovated kitchen in plain view not in the pantry. Therefore she saved a lot of money. The boyfriend wanted a beautiful fridge not in the pantry but wasn’t paying for it so his preferences were ignored.

by Anonymousreply 317Last Sunday at 8:31 AM

R317 That's about the skinny on it, thanks. There's still the practical aspect of gaining workspace, and cabinets and drawers too. This short wall had nothing but those two appliances. The range looks better in the middle of the wall, rather than in the corner. The plaster had food splatter as well. The walk-in pantry is on the opposite wall, where there are no cabinets, or bench tops. There is only a vintage sink, and a door leading out the back steps.

by Anonymousreply 318Last Sunday at 8:39 AM

Are Sub-Zero refrigerators and Viking ranges still "in"? Or is the money going to Miele, Gaggenau, and other Euro brands?

by Anonymousreply 319Last Sunday at 9:50 AM

This fridge would have looked nice built into the pantry if budget had allowed.

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by Anonymousreply 320Last Sunday at 9:55 AM

Actually that’s a pantry, here’s a fridge

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by Anonymousreply 321Last Sunday at 9:57 AM

I live in a mid-century. My kitchen absorbed a bedroom in 1956 so it's very large. When I bought the house it had the original builder grade (read, crappy) cabinets, which were in bad shape. I ripped those out, replastered the room and restored the terrazzo. So it was basically a giant box with a sink hookup and a gas line.

I was on a budget, so in order to afford the appliances I wanted (commercial full refrigerator, viking range), I ended up holding off on installing cabinets by buying some stainless steel racks and tables. There was a giant solid porcelain Crane wash sink in the laundry room when I bought the house, that sat on a metal legs, so I just used that as the sink. Now 2 years later I've actually grown to like having the flexibility of having everything raised off the floor and on wheels to able to move things for parties, to clean, etc. I will at some point finish the kitchen out, but for now, I don't mind it all. It's very much like a restaurant kitchen. My mother is mortified and asks me every time when I will finish it out.

My only "embarrassing" thing is the dishwasher sits next to the sink encased in painted plywood with a piece of marble on top of it. If I could figure out a way to integrate it better, I'd like that.

by Anonymousreply 322Last Sunday at 10:59 AM

That actually sounds cool r322. Not for everyone, of course, but very utilitarian.

Just wondering why you want commercial appliances though. We had them in our old house (previous owners put them in), and they were expensive as hell to maintain and repair.

by Anonymousreply 323Last Sunday at 12:16 PM

Islands have become too big. If you can't reach all the way across the island, it's too big. Also, if you have an eat-in kitchen with a breakfast room, get rid of the bar-counter with stools. Really not needed, and always in the way.

A kitchen I was in recently for a party, had an island which was 5 or 6 feet square. It looked like people were running a race around it. Crazy! Get rid of it, you'll be surprised how much easier and convenient the kitchen is without it.

by Anonymousreply 324Last Sunday at 12:29 PM

R323. I haven't had any problems. The Viking isn't a real commercial stove, but mine is an older model that is in effect a "tamed" commercial stove that can be installed residentially but because it has no electronics, there isn't much to go wrong. When you get into the real commercial stoves, they can't be put up against anything flammable like cabinets, sheetrock, etc. And they require bigger gas hookups and hoods, which leads into make up air, etc. You can also void a homeowners policy I found out. I like the power of the gas range for stuff like wok cooking and searing steaks.

The refrigerator is a professional model, 32" wide. You can fit a whole sheet pan inside. I like the size and it's the same size as the big Subzero at like 1/10th the price.

by Anonymousreply 325Last Sunday at 12:42 PM

Hate brown granite, dark wood cabinets and back splash. I do like a clean white kitchen off the garden or patio. I hate trendy. Who wants to live through a kitchen construction all the time, just go with timeless and classic. Must have my family room open to kitchen. I spend most of my time here. I loathe a separate kitchen.

by Anonymousreply 326Last Sunday at 1:11 PM

I have never met anyone who eats at the "bar" with the stools in a kitchen. Unless your place is too small to have a dining room/area, why have this space and clutter it up with West Elm barstools? Is it so someone can sit and chat while someone else is cooking?

by Anonymousreply 327Last Sunday at 1:11 PM

[quote]I have never met anyone who eats at the "bar" with the stools in a kitchen. Unless your place is too small to have a dining room/area, why have this space and clutter it up with West Elm barstools? Is it so someone can sit and chat while someone else is cooking?

I agree that I don't like the look of a kitchen bar with bar stools, but the utility of it is no mystery. I have a small kitchen and wouldn't like having to move a simple bar stool out of my way all the time; otherwise I would have one: for when I am cooking something and I have 20 minutes for it to be in the oven, it would be easier to stay in the kitchen with an eye on things and read the news on my phone; or when I'm home alone working by day have a light "lunch" and enjoy the view from the kitchen window; or a place to sit and talk to my husband while he cooks or vice versa. I don't like always having my meal in the dining room, any more than I like only using one room for one purpose. Other people and bigger families no doubt find similar and more uses, regardless of the "savagery" of not sitting down at a proper dining table to take every meal. If I wanted coffee and toast and (mold-free) jam for breakfast, I'd have it in the kitchen. Why not? I have drawers full of 18th and 19th Century silver and "nice things" from which to eat and good manners, even, but that doesn't make me a savage to have a yoghurt and juice at a barstool in a kitchen. Or to talk to your partner while you cook? Why not? Maybe you know a very refined sort who only dine in dining rooms or from trays brought into the bedchamber by maids, who make it a point never to be in a kitchen when someone else is cooking, or who never wants to sit down for 10 minutes while something finishes cooking.

by Anonymousreply 328Yesterday at 2:07 AM

Kitchens with islands which have bar stools are useful for those kind of people who've produced children.

by Anonymousreply 329Yesterday at 2:37 AM

That's BS, I am with r328, Its just me and my partner and he often wants to chat while I am making dinner. Stools at the counter are really good for that. Even when I have a couple friends over it's kind of the same thing until all the food comes out. It's just awkward to be sitting at a dinning table with other people when you are jumping up every couple of minutes to check on the food, or proceed to another step if you have multiple things going at the same time.

And just on a practical point, eating at a kitchen bar makes cleanup a lot less involved. I only have to clean one area not two.

by Anonymousreply 330Yesterday at 3:11 AM

Faux granite countertops made of tiles. Why bother?

It falls under the term of "classy". Usually a house occupied some some over the hill 40 something blond bimbo with saggy implants and her husband 20 years plus her age on his second wife.

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by Anonymousreply 331Yesterday at 3:16 AM

Does anyone have pics of more timeless kitchens? The breakdown of what dated and what was classic about the Something’s Gotta Give kitchen was fascinating!

by Anonymousreply 332Yesterday at 3:48 AM

They are ugly, R331, but it is real granite—just cheap thin slices of it. And nothing says "I'm cutting corners and making bad decisions" much worse than this.

For the right period house with the right kitchen, I don't mind ceramic tile counters. I know everyone despises them because they are "dirty" and take more care to clean, but it's not impossible to keep them clean, it just requires a regular clean with a disinfecting spray and a periodic scrubbing to keep the grout from staining. For me it's a long time between big spills in the kitchen and keeping them clean wouldn't be a big chore. I wouldn't use it in a new build, but if I had a house from the 1920s-1940s where it made sense, I might consider it.

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by Anonymousreply 333Yesterday at 3:51 AM

Tile from the 40's can stay, tile from the 70's and 80's need to go.

by Anonymousreply 334Yesterday at 4:00 AM

R320 Those are certainly lovely for new design/construction or for a reno in a grander newer home with unlimited space. I think many live so large in suburbs on DL, they aren't familiar with pre-1920s Craftsmen Cottages, or other small two-bedroom city homes. Big budgets or unlimited ones do not necessarily solve problem spaces on their own.

Playing your fantasy game, I don't see how this walk-in pantry or closet could be sorted out as those pics shown; overall depth is probably 4-5', possibly even 6'. That would create an odd hall effect IMHO, akin to an old buttery or root cellar. There would still be the lack of hiding space.

I think the best case forward in intact historic homes is to do as little as possible, and to work with the original space, floorplan, and historic fabric. Not respecting the bones is why most nice old homes are often molested, and have seriously incongruous kitchens and baths.

by Anonymousreply 335Yesterday at 4:29 AM

I hate that every renovation now includes Wolf stoves and such even though no one is cooking

by Anonymousreply 336Yesterday at 4:48 AM

R336 Much of what is popular in American kitchen design seems excessive, moneywise or too large. That's the other aspect of the giant fridges. Perfect for large families who don't shop regularly, but for childless couples or singles, they seem "too much". I feel the same about five and six burner ranges, regardless of make.

by Anonymousreply 337Yesterday at 5:20 AM

Thanks R335, those are interesting points

by Anonymousreply 338Yesterday at 7:16 AM

R335 - you, and your friend with the craftsman bungalow and the fridge behind the original walnut door, are purists -- and there's noting wrong with that; too many beautiful old homes have been really destroyed by renovation that just guts all the original charm. But those are the two extremes, it is entirely possible to tastefully and intelligently reconfigure spaces in old homes to suit more modern sensibilities, levels of comfort, and space use yet still respect period detail and an overall feel appropriate to the age of the house - doors and woodwork can be removed and reused, with some new matching trim to fill the gaps, etc. -- you just need some sense and some taste.

by Anonymousreply 339Yesterday at 7:20 AM

[quote]I hate that every renovation now includes Wolf stoves and such even though no one is cooking.

The same people you don't dislike so much that you fear for their lives when you see them chopping peppers for a "welcome to our new home (our realtor and other people we don't really know)" party in the closing shots of most HGTV House Hunters episodes.

by Anonymousreply 340Yesterday at 7:26 AM

These aren't necessarily design elements in the purist sense, but my general kitchen dislikes:

1) Hanging skillet and pot racks - can you store these please? It's trying to make it look like a commercial kitchen as if you're cooking multiple meals a day for several hundred people. You're not. And it's not a decoration - it's just messy. I understand that sometimes small apts just don't have the room, so that gets a pass - as with any space-challenged city kitchen.

2) Side-by-side refrigerators. Impractical - there's never enough width space.

3) Multiple glass front cabinets - I don't need to see your daily dishes or cereals or whatever. Same goes for open shelves - one is fine, but to have all of your plates and bowls on open shelves rarely looks good. Again, it's not a style element.

4) All white kitchens - 95% of the time it just says - no style. You need to have some contrast.

5) Drawer microwaves - I HATE crouching down to use an appliance, particularly when you're tall. I don't know why this is a thing.

6) Appliances all over the counter top. Put them AWAY! Coffee maker is fine - but that's pretty much it. Why is the mixer out? Blender? Toaster? And those huge fucking rice makers? Bread makers? George Foreman grills?

Otherwise I'm pretty forgiving.

by Anonymousreply 341Yesterday at 7:55 AM

[quote] And those huge fucking rice makers?

Asian families never stow the rice cooker.

by Anonymousreply 342Yesterday at 9:14 AM

R361 I agree with everything you wrote. Can we be besties?

by Anonymousreply 343Yesterday at 9:42 AM

R362 so the whole family hides?

by Anonymousreply 344Yesterday at 9:44 AM

It will be interesting to see what R361 and R362 post and if R343 and R344 comment's hold up.

by Anonymousreply 345Yesterday at 9:48 AM

I had to google what a pot filler is. LOL. I guess I shouldn't be on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 346Yesterday at 10:01 AM

R346 but what do you think of them?

by Anonymousreply 347Yesterday at 10:02 AM

A random plumbing fixture over a stove - what could go wrong?

by Anonymousreply 348Yesterday at 10:10 AM

The toaster should be out on the counter.

by Anonymousreply 349Yesterday at 11:31 AM

These appliance garages are kind of nice to hide them instead of the roller ones

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by Anonymousreply 350Yesterday at 12:23 PM

We have so many specialty small appliances which we use infrequently. I'd love to create an appliance closet in the kitchen so they are more convenient than going down to the basement, where we currently keep them.

by Anonymousreply 351Yesterday at 12:25 PM

[quote]But those are the two extremes, it is entirely possible to tastefully and intelligently reconfigure spaces in old homes to suit more modern sensibilities

I can just imagine my grandmother, if she ever heard of someone trying to "preserve" or "respect" her wonderful little house:

"Oh my god, just tear that shit out! We would have done it if we'd had the damn money!"

by Anonymousreply 352Yesterday at 1:22 PM

Those racks for plates. It's a kitchen, not an armory.

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by Anonymousreply 353Yesterday at 1:24 PM

I hate this trend of OPEN CONCEPT remodels when they remove walls and too many cabinets.. This weekend I went to look at a house with a friend who is in the market for a new home. It was a really nice remodel, except they had removed half the kitchen to "open it up" to the dining room. The oven was on a little half wall by itself with no counter space on either side, and it was practically IN the dining room.

by Anonymousreply 354Yesterday at 1:27 PM

OMG a friend just posted this on her social media --- apparently they opened up a wall between the living room and kitchen. It's awful. Not that it was great to begin with -- BEIGE BEIGE BEIGE -- but why put the sofa against the passthru like that?

The link shows before and after.

BTW she's a straight frau.

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by Anonymousreply 355Yesterday at 1:44 PM

Wow - the only thing worse than that shitty, too small, incorrectly hung print over the couch is the new view into her depressing kitchen.

by Anonymousreply 356Yesterday at 2:23 PM

It may be the worst "open concept" I've ever seen. And she can't even see the kids if they're on the couch.

by Anonymousreply 357Yesterday at 2:30 PM

My parents' house was built (late 80s) with that half wall between kitchen and living room. It's fine, but if you have 2 good size distinct rooms I just don't see the point of the change. Especially when you leave everything else so depressingly bland. The only advantage is you can watch TV while cooking. OK, but you could have put a TV in the kitchen. Or cut out a small window between rooms. That's what I did in my co-op, but I have a tiny kitchen and the small window above the sink really did help open up the space and watching TV while washing dishes is a nice bonus.

by Anonymousreply 358Yesterday at 3:06 PM

Also, I might be wrong, but it looks like they lost space for the fridge with the cut out and so it was moved to the other side of the kitchen and opening it now blocks the archway between rooms. That's just a terrible layout.

by Anonymousreply 359Yesterday at 3:10 PM

The whole "open floor plan" thing where sometimes the whole 1st floor of the house is one giant room where you walk in the front door and the kitchen with it's GIANT island is there across the room. Some mommies rationalize it by their adamant stance that they MUST be able to see their offspring while they're cooking. Bitch please. When I was a child we got asked to LEAVE the kitchen while the cooking was happening and go find something to do. Sometimes that meant playing in the livingroom or family room, or playing in our rooms, or going outside. Yes, we were allowed to exit the safety of the house to go outside into the yard WITHOUT "line of sight" from the kitchen. Imagine the HORROR if that were to occur today. I don't understand this whole mentality.

by Anonymousreply 360Yesterday at 4:06 PM

R360 - I believe they're talking about kids under 6 or 7, but I agree with you in general. Our parents certainly did not have us in their line of sight unless we were standing right in front of them.

If something happened, they heard it from the screaming that ensued. You're not going to prevent too many accidents.

by Anonymousreply 361Yesterday at 6:38 PM

Re: kitchen sink under window. Gives a view other than a wall and allows Mom to keep an eye on things outside.

by Anonymousreply 362a day ago

Kitchen islands are good for entertaining. Every time I have Thanksgiving at my house everyone ends up in the kitchen. Some of the guys might be out watching the game but the kitchen is where it's at. I put cheese and fruit out and everyone sits or stands with their drinks visiting while I cook.

by Anonymousreply 363a day ago

I live in a small-ish but well laid out condo. The kitchen has Miele appliances. The oven is the 24" size (not untypical for a small condo/apartment kitchen). As a reference, a "full size" oven is 30". One of my siblings was visiting and was astounded at the "tiny" oven. How could I possibly "cook a turkey" in that tiny thing? LOL. I have never in my life cooked a whole turkey and don't plan to. But even if I wanted to, * it would fit *.

by Anonymousreply 36421 hours ago

R341 I agree with most of your peeves, except the pot racks, as many don't have a choice in small kitchens. I keep most of mine right above my range on the wall, and all my knives as well.

My mum's kitchen would drive you mad...Largest ever Cuisinart, Kitchen-Aid Stand Mixer, Kitchen-Aid gigantic convection toaster oven, Aicok electric kettle, Zojirushi bread maker, Dualit regular toaster, Keurig Coffee machine, DeLonghi Espresso machine, and the Vitamix. They're all out all the time. She's says they're too heavy to put away, and at her age (with arthritis) why bother, she asks.

by Anonymousreply 36517 hours ago

[quote] with it's GIANT island

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 36616 hours ago

R365, I agree with Mom.

She needs to live as comfortably as she wants, in spite of everyone else’s opinions.

by Anonymousreply 36716 hours ago

I could never be comfortable around cluttered countertops.

by Anonymousreply 36815 hours ago

R368 They don't disturb me psychologically or anything, I just don't care for the look. In her defence, they're neatly "lined up", and her kitchen is enormous. I like clean surfaces, I suspect her house cleaner has a bitch of a time with them. I fail to see the need for a standard toaster and the gigantic toaster-convection thing.

When I suggested she move the espresso machine, as it isn't used often, she asked "What would I put there then?" I think there are two camps, one believes empty space must be filled, and the other feels space needn't be "filled". I get that she's getting fragile; she'll be eighty soon. I'm impressed she still makes all her own bread and pastries. Her age hasn't slowed her down a bit in the way of cooking or entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 36915 hours ago

[quote]Her age hasn't slowed her down a bit in the way of cooking or entertaining.


I love your mom.

by Anonymousreply 37015 hours ago

Not just for kitchens exactly (although I've seen this in kitchens, too) is this trend to put TVs on the fucking walls! I know in some cases it's appropriate, but almost every house I look at online has an awkwardly placed TV on the wall (some with wires hanging down) or tacked up over the fireplace. With so much "open concept" these days I get that there isn't much wall space in some houses, and it can look nice in the right setting, but most of the time it just looks stupid.

If you have your TV mounted on the wall, I'm sure it looks great and perfect, so no need to tell me about it.

by Anonymousreply 37113 hours ago

"If you have your TV mounted on the wall, I'm sure it looks great and perfect, so no need to tell me about it."

LOL. Unless you can run the wires through the wall or otherwise hide them, do not mount your TV.

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by Anonymousreply 37212 hours ago

R372 ugh don't get me started on big ass TVs. My husband insisted we get one, but I refused to mount it on the wall, precisely because of the damn visible wires hanging.

But I still hate it.

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by Anonymousreply 37311 hours ago

I do love my big TV, but I find it hilarious when people try to mimic those "media rooms" or create those stupid "mancaves" with a giant TV and oversized couches/lazyboys in rooms that are just too small.

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by Anonymousreply 3749 hours ago

Televisions should never be placed/hung/mounted such that the viewer must extend his neck vertebrae upwards. Not joking.

by Anonymousreply 3758 hours ago

When the microwave is not large enough to fit the crying baby.

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