Leslie Van Houten Gets Parole

She was only recommended for parole. The governor will probably block it.

Just in time for me.

Finally, Milhaus will get his grandmother back.

Get her, Roman!

COVID-19 is one of the reasons her lawyer is arguing that she should get parole. Her age makes her vulnerable, and it's in the prison where she lives.

this happens all the time. She always gets recommended but then turned down.

Newsom blocked it once, and he'll do it again.

Nobody wants to go down in history as the governor who freed a Manson Family member.

Isn't Patricia Krenwinkel also alive? I'd have a harder time seeing her get parole. She seems genuinely remorseful, but she butchered Abby Folger. Leslie may only have stabbed Leno LaBianca once he was dead. That's not a great thing to do, but is it worth serving half a century in prison?

Leno was already old, this makes no sense.

I can remember her father on Larry King once. He blamed it all on Manson and drugs. Didn't take any responsibility for his daughter's behavior.

She's not getting out. Not going to happen. Their crimes were too horrendous. P

[quote] Her age makes her vulnerable, and it's in the prison where she lives.

I don’t give a fuck. What these people did was beyond depraved. She should be grateful she’s gotten to live this long.

Gavin wants to be president some day. This is not something he wants on his record.

I don't think she should get parole, but based on the photo I do think she should get moisturizer.

Call me a soft-hearted liberal but it seems the compassionate thing to do.

Has John Waters commented?

Did Barbra go crazy thinking they were coming for her next?

Jane Curtin for the biopic!

Die witch!

Actually, R16, some of us DID toy with the idea of going after Strei- oh, never mind.

She’s 116, She’s beautiful, And she’s mine!

Judith Light for the biopic!

Squeaky made it into a Sondheim musical. What accomplishments did these other bitches have?

[quote]Jane Curtin for the biopic!

I like this suggestion. Who should play young Leslie?

[quote]Jane Curtin for the biopic!

I like this suggestion. Who should play young Leslie?

It’s simply unconstitutional that any governor has the power to veto a parole recommendation for an offender who has served time for a crime and met the requisite requirements for parole.

I don’t care that most of you think what she did was reprehensible enough to die in prison—it’s irrelevant what you or frankly the public thinks about it. The parole board has on four occasions concluded that Ms. Van Houten has met the requirements of parole and should therefore be released. The fact that CA governors continue to veto these rulings as a consequence of their own political aspirations and legacy is abominable.

Ms. Van Houten stabbed Mrs. LaBianca multiple times at age 19 under the influence of a psychopath and for that crime has spent almost 50 years behind bars. She is by all accounts fully rehabilitated, genuinely remorseful, and a low risk to society.

Plenty of murderers get paroled every year. The sensationalist and infamous nature of being associated with Manson is the only reason she has spent this much time in prison.

Free Mark David Chapman!

[quote]The sensationalist and infamous nature of being associated with Manson is the only reason she has spent this much time in prison.

The barbarity of her crimes is why she is and should remain in prison.

I know this will be a controversial decision, but she's no danger to society and I think 50 years is long enough.

really, the LaBianca 's got life!

Wasn't she sentenced to the death penalty?

R24 Emma Roberts

Leslie Van Houten is a fucking cunt and deserves to spend the rest of her miserable life for what she did.

So she will get out and then job hunt? I doubt she is even eligible for Social Security.

It was the fourth time she was recommended for parole by the board. Doesn't mean she "got" it - or that she ever will.

Reading comprehension is not your forte, is it OP?

R32, she eagerly wants to apply for that chicken-slaughterer position at Tyson Farms, I bet she’d be a natural!

I could be mistaken but I believe Leslie’s father may have set up a trust for her when he died, so I doubt she’d be penniless if she were released. I also understand she has an adopted Korean sibling who she could possibly live with as well.

Unfortunately the only way she’d be able to make money at this point is by rehashing her crimes, either by talk show circuits, prime time interviews, and/or a book deal. Although she is hated by a large segment of the population who was alive when the murders happened, younger people see the Manson murders more abstractly.

[quote] The barbarity of her crimes is why she is and should remain in prison.

The crime is only one factor that has to be considered for parole consideration. Hers is hardly unique or particularly heinous. Sorry to say that but that is a fact of life.

She long ago became what is essentially a political prisoner in that any other similarly situated person would have been paroled 20 or 30 years ago. Simple as that.

I heard she's a great cook and her best recipe is rosemary chicken -- she really knows how to carve it well.

Quentin Tarantino, get her!

She could always go live with John Waters given how much stupid fucking support and encouragement he has been giving her over the years. He is as appalling as she is.

I’m 34 now but I think back to all the really stupid stuff I did at 19, 20, 21. Granted I never killed anyone, but frankly I could have, considering that on more than one occasion I drove very drunk. The bitch has spent 50 years in prison for a stabbing a corpse (Krenwinkel made the fatal lacerations) when she was 19. Plus a team of psychologists, psychiatrists, and the parole board have determined she isn’t a danger to society. It’s time to let her go.

She’s got to stay in prison. Terrible person.

[quote]R5 COVID-19 is one of the reasons her lawyer is arguing that she should get parole. [bold]Her age makes her vulnerable, and it's in the prison where she lives.[/bold{

As vulnerable as being butchered in your home by strangers with knives?

Please...

^^ Or as vulnerable to as my intended words are to unintended embolding when typed on a cell phone?

I hope you guys realize that thousands of prisoners, some of who are more of a direct threat to you than this old lady, have been paroled this year due to COVID-19.

R44 She forfeited forever her place in society by the barbaric butchering of Leno and Rosemary La Bianca. Your attempt at parity is both irrelevant and deplorable.

You take a life, you don't deserve to live yours. Sorry not sorry.

Patricia Krenwinkel was asked by a parole board who had she hurt most by her crimes, her response: "Myself".

Translation: I'm the real victim here.

Pat Krenwinkel's criminally hairy arms are enough to keep her locked up forever.

Maybe Zelda Williams can play her in R21's film.

I could certainly play young Leslie.

r45 no it is very relevant since you all are discussing this like she is unique, and she is not. I am just reminding you and everyone else of what's going on right now.

Van Houten was 19 when she and other cult members fatally stabbed the LaBiancas, carved up Leno LaBianca’s body and smeared the couple’s blood on the walls.

I agree with others here. She’s a political prisoner, no governor (even Moonbeam Brown, who should have this last go round) is going to stake their reputation on a Manson member. Had she not been associated with the murder of a pretty blond actress, she would have been paroled decades ago. There are still too many people alive who want vengeance for that.

Leslie Van Houton is out and about'en.

Any governor who lets her out would face career suicide. Won't happen. Oh well! I will lose zero seconds of sleep over this murderer.

She and her cohorts killed the wrong people at the wrong time. Hollywood went into shock.

Wasn’t Sharon Tate’s sister opposed to her being released?

Wouldn’t it be funny if she was finally put on parole after all this assurance that she isn’t a harm to society, and the very first thing she did upon release was to go out and stab somebody?

R57 And as she is arrested she is captured on camera saying " Jesus, I'd been itching to do that for FIFTY YEARS!"

Sharon Tate’s sister has been aggressively working behind the scenes to ensure that every member of the Manson Family stays behind bars. She has organized online petitions and attended parole hearings, including those of Ms. Van Houten, to give victim impact statements.

But Ms. Van Houten had nothing to do with Sharon Tate’s murder. Ms. Van Houten stabbed, by all accounts, a body that was near or post mortem. Again, the association with Manson and Sharon Tate is the reason why Ms. Van Houten has been locked up for so long.

She has spent 50 years, her entire adult life, behind bars. That punishment is more than twice as long as the average incarcerated convicted murderer. It’s time to let the woman go, for god’s sake.

And no, I don’t think any other Manson Family members should be paroled. They are unrepentant psychopaths, but Leslie is different.

[quote]I don’t care that most of you think what she did was reprehensible enough to die in prison—it’s irrelevant what you or frankly the public thinks about it.

Except that what YOU personally think about the crime is motivating your opinion, R25, so it's kind of funny that you preemptively tell everyone else their opinion doesn't count.

Van Houten held Rosemary LaBianca down while she was being stabbed, then called for Tex Watson to help because she and Krenwinkel weren't having any success killing Rosemary. Tex showed up, stabbed Rosemary several times, then gave the knife to Van Houten who stabbed Rosemary 17 times in the butt.

She stole items from the LaBianca house afterwards.

Multiple lawyers tried to defend her by saying she was under Manson's influence and she dismissed them all. On the stand, she told the jury she was sure Rosemary was alive when she stabbed her, and in fact hoped that her stab wounds to the spine were what killed Rosemary LaBianca.

She tried to confess to a killing she hadn't been involved in and which was actually committed by Manson, in order to defend her hero.

She told the court psychiatrist she beat her half-sister when they were kids, and also would have committed murder anyway, whether she was involved with Manson or not.

Now what was that you guys were saying about her not really being that much of a criminal?

I love that Wikipedia gives Charles Manson’s occupation as “singer-songwriter.”

[quote]no it is very relevant since you all are discussing this like she is unique, and she is not.

R50 More irrelevance. 50 years, 100 years or 1,000 years does not mitigate the barbarity of her crimes. Again, your insistence at parity, or worse, minimization, is deplorable.

I’d hope Newsom would do the decent and humane thing this time and grant parole. He’s proven himself to be a good guy and a little compassion could go a long way in the USA. Continue to lead by example, Governor.

R36= ghost of Charles Manson

Van Houten should be shown all of the decency, humanity and compassion she showed to the La Biancas.

[quote] She’s a political prisoner

I totally agree!

[quote] a little compassion could go a long way in the USA.

To a convicted murderer? It's not like she ran up a bunch of traffic fines.

[quote] I’d hope Newsom would do the decent and humane thing this time

Yes, won’t someone think of poor Leslie?

Give her a trip to Mar-a-Lago.

There are probably millions of people in prison who deserve to be paroled. This psycho bitch is not even close to being one of them.

It simply is NOT unconstitutional, R25, for the governor to weigh in, fool.

R9, it's okay for someone to be stabbed to death because he was "old"? Btw, Leno La Bianca was not old, he was 44, you idiot.

As for R36 and R52, you clearly have no idea what a political prisoner is. Go to places like China, and you'll see political prisoners.

Van Houten nor any of the rest will ever get out, nor should they. It isn't about whether or not they're a danger now--clearly they're not. It's about justice. They were given the death penalty, and they were unbelievably lucky enough to see the death penalty briefly overturned in CA, long enough to commute their sentences. The fact that they're still alive instead of being bones in a grave is enough parole for them.

Many of the replies in this thread indicate a vindictive and unforgiving society.

I’m not surprised it’s disintegrating before our eyes. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened sooner.

Simmer down John Waters at R73. Society isn't collapsing because a handful of people don't think Van Houten should be given parole.

Forgiveness is up to the individual, not society. It is the demand that criminals contemptuous of humanity and social cohesion be "forgiven" and readmitted to society that is the cause of social disintegration.

Blow it out your ass, R75, MARY.

R74 the USA is predicted on violence towards many of its citizens. It cuts right across society. Getting ticketed to fund law enforcement, to incarceration for not being able to pay a fine, to a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key attitude, to refusing parole... a violent and unforgiving society. That’s what I’m talking about.

What damage would it do to parole this woman?

“When you see a bad spot on an apple, you cut out that spot."

- Sandra Good, Manson Family member

DL has its own form of deplorables in the form of R77 like Van Houten is exactly that what he decries-a violent unforgiving person-who has caused a staggering amount of terror and lifelong misery in her life but is worthy of compassion. Why exactly? Once is enough. Her victims get no second chance.

R79 thanks for validating my point.

What? Of your support of violence and terror in society and of the torment it still causes? You have a very disturbing way of looking at things.

[quote] any other similarly situated person would have been paroled 20 or 30 years ago.

No, no, he’s right you know.

And I wasn’t even there.

If R77 thinks getting a speeding ticket is a form of violence, there’s no point in engaging further.

[quote] the USA is predicted on violence

Miss Cleo?

She was responsible for the deaths of innocent people. She should pay with her own life behind bars. No sympathy whatsoever from me.

[quote] I don’t care that most of you think what she did was reprehensible enough to die in prison—it’s irrelevant what you or frankly the public thinks about it.

Oh, do fuck off.

[quote] The crime is only one factor that has to be considered for parole consideration.

A real Mensa member we got posting here. lmfao

Family impact stories are also considered, moron.

She’s lucky she didn’t get the chair. Sitting behind bars is her parole.

[quote]It’s simply unconstitutional that any governor has the power to veto a parole recommendation for an offender who has served time for a crime and met the requisite requirements for parole...I don’t care that most of you think what she did was reprehensible enough to die in prison—it’s irrelevant what you or frankly the public thinks about it. The parole board has on four occasions concluded that Ms. Van Houten has met the requirements of parole and should therefore be released. The fact that CA governors continue to veto these rulings as a consequence of their own political aspirations and legacy is abominable.

Yes, get back to us in a few years when the cops who've murdered people are up for parole.

There are black people serving life for a bit of weed, or defending themselves from their abuser and no one gives a shit. Fuck this bitch, let her rot in prison.

[quote]She’s lucky she didn’t get the chair. Sitting behind bars is her parole.

This.

What does a 70 year old who has spent their entire adult life in prison do for money when they get out? They can't get Social Security because they have no work credits. They probably can't get a job. What do they do for money?

No one in their 70s commits violent crimes? Who's doing weed at this hour?

R92 Live in John Waters' basement?

[quote]They can't get Social Security because they have no work credits. They probably can't get a job. What do they do for money?

Leslie Van Houston: Murder For Hire

THIS little piggie went to M U R D E R

FIRST on the hit parade — OTTO KOREKT

R10. She has taken responsibility for her own behavior. Why are you bitching about her father? He was undoubtedly trying to adjust to a terrible upheaval in his world. He did what most parents would do--even yours.

[quote] A real Mensa member we got posting here. lmfao Family impact stories are also considered, moron.

Oh, the irony!

Who knew people were still so angry about the Mason murders? Y'all old

R99 really is an idiot.

R99 understands.

The "compassion" troll is off being a homophobe on an Ellen thread with shitty comments about "bulldykes."

What the fuck kind of broken piece of shit is saying "ooh, I plant TREES to make myself feel better and save the world!" and "oh you EVIL Americans who won't parole a murderer!" on some threads, and then using "bulldyke" as a slur on others?

[quote]Unfortunately the only way she’d be able to make money at this point is by rehashing her crimes

She could appear on Dancing With The Stars

[quote] She long ago became what is essentially a political prisoner in that any other similarly situated person would have been paroled 20 or 30 years ago. Simple as that.

Same with Mark David Chapman. As long as Yoko Ono is alive, he'll never be released.

In what world is Mark David Chapman a political prisoner, R104?

There are people serving life sentences for petty crimes because of the "three strikes" rule, so you can cram it with the "anyone else would have been already let go" routine. That's simply not true and you know it.

[quote]R63 50 years, 100 years or 1,000 years does not mitigate the barbarity of her crimes. Again, your insistence at parity, or worse, minimization, is deplorable.

I’ve never understood the process of patrolling murders, anyway.

R99, I’m under 30, but if you read about what she did, for any non-sociopath it’s clear she should be in prison until she dies.

If the woman was already dead, was it really stabbing-stabbing?

^^ PAROLLING. Not patrolling.

Murderers actually should be patrolled.

Is she dating anyone? I have an uncle about her age who would love to pawn off on her.

[quote] What does a 70 year old who has spent their entire adult life in prison do for money when they get out?

If she gets paroled, maybe John Waters can buy the old LaBianca house in Los Feliz, Leslie can move in, and they can get a reality show.

[quote]In what world is Mark David Chapman a political prisoner, [R104]?

r105, did you miss the phrase "what is essentially" in r36's post? He is not saying these people ARE political prisoners, but they have become LIKE political prisoners.

Imagine stanning for this woman as the poster in this thread is. Imagine the kind of life this person must lead. Now, be grateful for what you have yourself and thank the good Lord that you aren't a Leslie Van Houten stan.

Clearly Waters finds what she did deliciously forbidden and deliciously thrilling. I mean all of Hollywood terrified? Does it get better than that? Come sit by me!

She should have gotten parole long ago. Sharon Tate was married to a rapist so she had no morals anyways. I don’t believe for one second that he wasn’t rapping kids when he was married to Sharon.

She should have been electrocuted and dumped in a grave many years ago for her crimes.

First of all, R113, R36 is no arbiter on political prisoners.

Second, Van Houten and Chapman are neither political prisoners nor are like them. You want the real definition of political prisoner is: a person imprisoned for their political beliefs or actions.

I wonder if Sharon watched as Roman drugged and sodomized Thirteen year olds? Or did she participate?

R119=troll.

Again, a parole board has determined that Ms. Van Houten is suitable for parole. When a parole board has come to that determination on FOUR separate occasions, it’s time to let the prisoner free.

Sure, the LaBiancas, Sharon’s sister, a large proportion of overly dramatic DL eldergays, and a segment of the greater population won’t like it, but that’s irrelevant.

The woman has served 50 years behind bars. To suggest that that punishment was light or disproportionate with stabbing a corpse is patently ridiculous. Leslie has 10, 20 more years to live if she’s lucky. She’s an old woman who made a very serious mistake at 19, and who has payed a very dear price for that mistake.

R121, she could come up for parole 50 times more and there is no obligation to release her.

[quote]and who has payed a very dear price for that mistake.

One has to wonder the depth of inhumanity of the person who characterizes brutal murder as a "mistake".

[quote] Sharon Tate was married to a rapist so she had no morals anyways

Only a psychopath could vomit up a rationalization like that.

Are these pearl clutches for real? there are tons of murdered out on parole that served far less time than Leslie did and were older and were not under the mind control of a drugged out cult leader when they committed their crimes.

There’s no reason why she shouldn’t be released. The lives of her victims aren’t anymore important Than any others.

R125, nothing you say makes any difference. She did his to herself. If she never gets paroled, that's her problem.

R124, it that's just a shit-stirring troll. Best to ignore it.

R123, or wonder how that poster doesn't the correct spelling of "paid."

If Sharon Tate was not some wealthy white cunt married to a rich peodphile, Leslie would have been out decades ago. People should not be punished harsher because they murdered a rich person.

Ah, the beauty of blocking. I only know the troll posted, I don't have to see it.

That particular troll was already blocked, so it's a real shit smeller. I suggest everybody do the same.

Poor Leslie Van Houten! Life just isn't fair for convicted murderers!

WAWAWAWAWAWAWA!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Now that the ringleader (Charlie) is dead, she's possibly a lot less dangerous. But when she gets out, she'll be unemployable, she'll have zero social security, and she might not have any living relatives.

Honestly she should just stay in. Then she can receive good health care free of charge, and she probably has friends in jail.

I always hoped that they would both (Krenwinkel and Van Houten) get out and be paroled to that pathatic fantard asslicker John Waters house.

I wonder if Krenwinkel has given up on attempting parole? At her last hearing, I believe they gave her a denial and seven years before she could make another attempt. She has to know that if Leslie can't get out, she definitely won't.

Krenwinkel's behavior was so much more violent than Van Houten's, and she was present on both nights of the murder and almost certainly killed Abigail Folger all on her own. Krenwinkel will never get out.

This site claims that Van Houten has a net worth of $12 million dollars, they don't say how though. Maybe she inherited the money from her parents. She was the only natural child of her parents but she does have two adopted Korean siblings.

Plus she was married for two months in 1982, who knew?

Twelve million dollars!!!

ROTFL, R134!!!

[quote]R116 I don’t believe for one second that he wasn’t rapping kids when he was married to Sharon.

I didn’t know Polanski rapped.

Probably to entice The Children, though.

She should stay in prison. Ivanka will need someone to show her the ropes in a couple years.

[quote]Now that the ringleader (Charlie) is dead, she's possibly a lot less dangerous.

Oh come off it -- it's not like, if Charlie were still alive in prison, she'd be released and immediately begin a decapitation spree.

This request wore a cover-19 kimono, naturally. That might just be what is needed to put the request over the top.

Personally I think she needs to die in prison. At least she can read books and hang around with the other criminals and chat. She can masturbate. These are all things the people she helped murder can not do.

[quote] I didn’t know Polanski rapped.

Roman was a pioneer -- he dropped his hip hop album all the way back in 1969.

"covid-19" -- fucking autocorrect.

[quote]R130 Now that the ringleader (Charlie) is dead, she's possibly a lot less dangerous.

Dead from ass cancer. How apt.

How do you know "she's no danger to society"? Because she's old? The elderly have been known to commit murder, OP.

I guess her Covid masks will ease her re-entry.

Yes, r29; they all were.

[quote] Sharon Tate was married to a rapist so she had no morals anyways.

Anyone who adds an S to anyway reveals everything we need to know.

[quote] Dead from ass cancer. How apt.

Manson didn’t die from any kind of cancer.

She thinks just because she takes her precious Jesus up the ass now instead of Tex Watson, she gets to waltz out the prison gates with a Get Out of Jail Free card?

That may be how Christianity works, but not the state of California.

Susan Atkins and Watson were/are the Holy Rollers, not this one.

[quote]R145 Manson didn’t die from any kind of cancer.

Your evil idol died from cardiac arrest [italic]resulting from [/italic]respiratory failure and colon cancer.

R88 I agree, but my opinion is irrelevant.

[quote]R147 Susan Atkins and Watson were/are the Holy Rollers, not this one.

You think your puny facts matter to me??

Now get outta my way - I’ve got a man waitin’ for me out there.

Far worse than her have been let out of prison.

And as far as I’m concerned she’s paid her debt to society and it serves no purpose in keeping her locked up inside anymore.

[quote] And as far as I’m concerned

That's just it--your concerns are not relevant.

I say put it to a vote of the people of California.

R125, I must assume you were not alive in 1969.

The Tate-LaBianca Murders finally put paid to the Swingin' 60s, in reality and in myth, more than did Altamont or Vietnam. They were the coda to 1968's MLK, Jr., and RFK assassinations.

It's not that any Manson victim was more "important" than any other homicide victim; it was the number of victims and perpetrators, and the youthfulness of the killers in conjunction with their excessive savagery. That most were females. The lack of motive. The different days and different neighborhoods.

It was the jungle of "Lord of the Flies" erupting in the Hollywood hills, complete with the word "PIG" scrawled in blood---8-months-pregnant Sharon Tate's blood.

Of course, many people in human history have been heroes, traitors, villains, victims, perps, beautiful, talented, superior in myriad ways. But most go unknown, and of the known, only a small percentage captures the public's attention and imagination and becomes the stuff of art and even legend.

Do you really mean to imply that you don't understand this?

[quote]R151 she’s paid her debt to society and it serves no purpose in keeping her locked up inside anymore.

I heard she went to Paris to make art films. ART FILMS? Nudies! That's all they are. Nudies!

[quote]who has payed a very dear price for that mistake.

It's 'paid,' Boris.

The only star that comes out of a parole board hearing is Helen Lawson, and that’s ME, baby, remember?

[quote]Isn't Patricia Krenwinkel also alive? I'd have a harder time seeing her get parole. She seems genuinely remorseful, but she butchered Abby Folger. Leslie may only have stabbed Leno LaBianca once he was dead. That's not a great thing to do, but is it worth serving half a century in prison?

It was Rosemary, not Leno. And there's no way to tell which stab wound killed her, because a number of them were in and of themselves fatal.

She was already lucky that Life with Parole became a possibility between her first and second trials.

Not to mention that she only got that trial because the Family killed her first lawyer.

100% agree with r154

Was it Joan Didion that wrote something similar to what r154 wrote?

[quote]What does a 70 year old who has spent their entire adult life in prison do for money when they get out? They can't get Social Security because they have no work credits. They probably can't get a job. What do they do for money?

Chaturbate

R160, if Bobby Beausoleil gets out too, maybe 'ol Les can peg him on cam.

[quote] Free Mark David Chapman!

Why, so he can take a shot at Yoko?

I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t end up getting a shit ton of plastic surgery if she ever does get out that will put Joan rivers to shame.

R160, Bobby was just denied parole several weeks ago after being approved for parole in 2019, and having it overturned by Newsom.

Patricia Krenwinkel is NEVER getting out and she knows this. She is a true psychopath but has come to terms with her fate, as evidenced by this NYT video from 2014.

Misleading title. Anyway, after reading John Waters book, i hope if he finally got his wish.

I will play you, Leslie!

I do almost, ALMOST, feel sorry for Leslie. She was plugged into the Family through Bobby (and Catherine Share), and there was a story in one of the books about Manson that talked about how she was supposed to be riding with them down to LA to join up with everyone, and they drove off without her. She realized that that she could have avoided everything if they'd just kept going.

Catherine is the one person beyond Linda Kasabian that I believe is truly penitent for her actions in those days. She's spent the rest of her life trying to atone for them. I never knew she'd had a baby with Clem.

Let Leslie out of prison. She has paid her debt to society. She was 19 at the time. She has expressed insurmountable and overwhelming remorse. She is not a threat to society. It's time.

[quote]R159 Was it Joan Didion that wrote something similar to what [R154] wrote?

No, it was Ms. Didion who originally wrote, [italic]“She thinks just because she takes her precious Jesus up the ass now instead of Tex Watson, she gets to waltz out the prison gates with a Get Out of Jail Free card?”

The stupidest thing about Leslie's involvement was that she wasn't even a VIP within the family -- yes, they had their own hierarchy. She was peripheral. At least Krenwinkel was one of the original, important henchwomen.

Scrolling past, I thought it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

Squeaky should take down Trump, and regain her status so many years later.

Who is asshole R168? 'She has expressed insurmountable and overwhelming remorse. She is not a threat to society. It's time.'

So she said she's sorry and everything's ok? She's 70, nobody over 70 commits murder? It's time for fucking what oh all seeing one? Do you have an invitation for John Water's celebration party?

Certain people will never see the light of day outside of prison: the Manson gang; Mark David Chapman; Sirhan Sirhan.

I also think she should remain in jail, but at least the Manson women in prison *act* sorry for what they did. Squeaky was on some documentary recently and it's obvious she still thinks Charlie was a god and she seemed pretty ok with all the murder, too. They're all nuts.

R169, this case was before my time, but my favorite quote about the case was that after the Tate murders, the sewers of Los Angeles were high -- so many people had flushed their drug stash down the toilet. Forget where I read it.

She was clearly abused, drugged, raped, and brianwashed by Manson. I think she should be set free.

Leslie's main job was acting as honeytrap and sexual currency. When Charlie wanted to lure a man into the family or pay off debts/impress men outside of it, he'd offer them his girls. Leslie and Ouisch were the prettiest, and the men almost invariably chose them. Leslie was brainwashed by groupthink and LSD and repeatedly sexually abused. I'm sure this contributed to the rage and chaos inside her which led to her participation in the killings. It doesn't excuse it, but it does explain it. I think after 50 years and repeated proof of remorse and rehabilitation, she's paid her debt and earned her freedom.

She and "the family" gave hippies a bad name. There was nothing peace and love about them. Screw her.

R164, PK makes me sick. That phony affected tone, the gobbledygook, everything about her is repulsive.

Too bad she can't meet Abigail's fate, complete with "red" dress.

Manson hated hippies, r180.

[quote]fat famewhore Sharon Tates sister might object

Jesus, just fuck off. I'm sorry so many of you bitches on here are miserable in your real lives, but being a psychopath doesn't help anything.

[quote]Sure, the LaBiancas, Sharon’s sister, a large proportion of overly dramatic DL eldergays, and a segment of the greater population won’t like it, but that’s irrelevant.

You're the one who brought up your own history with drunk driving as a reason to let Van Houten free. Why you keep telling everyone else they should stop having personal opinions, while you practically spam this thread with your own personal opinions and tried passing them off as unassailable facts, is beyond me.

These crimes happened well before I was born. If it makes you feel morally superior to think I'm a hysterical eldergay who doesn't understand truth or logic, so be it. It's not like you'll be the first person to ever launch into ad hominem because you don't have the emotional capability to tolerate a difference of opinion.

[quote]R184 you keep telling everyone else they should stop having personal opinions, while you practically spam this thread with your own personal opinions and tried passing them off as unassailable facts

That poster never learned to roooolllll with the punches.

And believe me, on this board they come left, right, and below the belt!

The bitch was sentenced to DEATH. She should be kissing the state’s ASS for letting her live, not rattling sabers and whining about how she deserves freedom.

R184, it’s not my opinion, your opinion, or the public writ large opinion that’s relevant as it pertains to Leslie’s parole eligibility. It’s the opinion of the parole board, and they have ruled four times that they believe she has met requirements for release.

Why do you continue to ignore this fact? You think she should spend the rest of her life in prison, and a panel of law enforcement officials say she should go free because she has undergone decades therapy and psychiatric evaluation, and they have determined that in addition to being remorseful, she has a low probability of recidivism and does not pose a threat to society.

You acknowledge that murderers with far more violent pasts than Leslie have been, and are paroled on a frequent basis, after serving much less time. What do you want? Why are you and others so obsessed with this woman? She’s 70 and will be lucky to make it to 80, and will likely like a pauper for what little time she has left.

R187 I hope that fucking cunt Van Houten lasts to 100 years of age rotting away in jail where she belongs. She desveres as much time as possible to regret and reflect what she choose to take part in. Fuck her and all the Manson family killers.

People like you who have money and others like John Waters will shower her with gifts and money and she will be seen as some sort of noble survivor. There is no doubt you are a very sick fuck.

[quote]R187 She’s 70 and will be lucky to make it to 80, and will likely like a pauper for what little time she has left.

No matter how much she likes the pauper, she’ll probably kill him.

#Word

She should have been released 25 years ago. It's disgusting. And yes I'm serious AND familiar with the case. Don't @ me Sharon Tate weirdo.

R189 For decades I've really liked John Waters. I like most people I imagine was aware that Waters had a fascination not only with the Manson 'family' but other murderers. However in recent years his support of Van Houten has been really off putting. Frankly, John Waters is now as deplorable as the people (like Trump) that he claims to find deplorable.

R189 here. Yes I used to really like him a lot but I no longer see him as I once did.

[quote]Leslie Van Houten Gets Parole

But does she get those Cha-Cha Shoes?

Leslie Van Houten did a terrible thing at 19, but many other criminals who have been paroled have done as bad or worse. Governors won't allow her parole not because they consider her a genuine threat or in need of further punishment, but because they don't want to be criticized for releasing a Manson family member. To keep her in jail now is optics, not justice.

R195 And that is her tough shit. This thread isn't about other perpetrators of crime. It is about Van Houten and she deserves to rot in jail for what she did.

They should take her out to the prison yard and stone her to death. This piece of filth deserves to be dead.

You're an insane piece of white trash R197. You stink up this whole site. But you'll be dead soon.

R197 Whilst I can understand some people have that sentiment I don't believe in the death penalty. Let Van Houten rot in jail for the rest of her miserable life to reflect on what she did.

I have a feeling she might get paroled this time, due to her age and corona virus. It's such a shit storm right now. Aside from corona virus, there have been riots. Maybe the governor will feel that publicity surrounding her release will fade from the headlines relatively quickly. Plus, there is less traveling, less attendance at hearings, etc. Things can get done with less fanfare. Maybe.

If she is released we can all gather and stone her to death in the parking lot.

Sometimes people do things they can never be forgiven for. Being young at the time of the crime is no excuse. I was 19 once and I managed to not commit any murders.

Perhaps they could release Leslie Van Houten into some sort of a halfway house or supervised living situation. She deserves to be paroled, she is not a threat to society and has proven her remorse. As a previous post said, at this point, her release is optics not justice. No governor wants to labeled as the one who released a Manson family member. But Leslie Van Houten deserves some sort of freedom, and that's why I suggested she be allowed to leave prison and live her days in some sort of supervised situation until the appropriate time when she could be outright paroled. She was 19 when the murders were committed. It's time for her to be set free--or at least some kind of partial freedom. She has earned her parole. I hope Governor Newsom has the courage to look beyond some people still demanding a pound of flesh from Leslie Van Houten. She has rotted in jail long enough.

[quote]I hope Governor Newsom has the courage to look beyond some people still demanding a pound of flesh from Leslie Van Houten.

How different her life would have been if Van Houten had considered the flesh of the La Biancas before she butchered it.

R202. We all were 19 at one time. We were luckier and didn't get involved in drugs and Charlie Manson. I'm not making excuses for Leslie Van Houten, but the late 1960s were a very vulnerable time. My point is, not everyone had the life you or I did. Leslie Van Houten has paid the price. Your life is not her life and can't be compared. We have to judge each individual on his or her own. She's done her time. Read and watch her parole hearings. They are available on the Internet. Learn about her life and all the sorrow and reflection she has gone through and expresses every day of her life in jail. There are mitigating circumstances for what a 19-year old did versus what is now an old, nearly broken woman who deserves just a slice of freedom before she too leaves this world.

R203 Do you want to volunteer to live in a hallway house with her?

She was involved in committing a heinous murder and deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison.

R204. Charlie Manson didn't deserve redemption. Leslie Van Houten does.

R205 Plenty of people have had terrible things happen to them during their childhood and teenage years and get mixed up with some dreadful people and they don't commit cold blooded murder.

Fuck Van Houten. She deserves to rot in prison for the rest of her miserable life. Her victims didn't get a second chance at life and her victims families have had to live with the pain that she inflicted on them until their dying days.

She can rot. Such a shame there isn't an afterlife. People like Van Houten deserve to rot there for eternity.

R206. It's not my role--or yours--to supervise anyone living in a halfway house or supervised living situation. However, there are those criminal justice, social and psychological experts who are trained to do such work. Just because you and I are not one of the trained experts to supervise former prisoners doesn't mean she should not be paroled.

R209 There are plenty of people in prison who deserve parole and deserve a second chance. Van Houten is not one of them.

Prison serves two roles: to punish and to rehabilitate. Some people deserve to be punished forever. However, Leslie Van Houten falls into the second category. She has been rehabilitated to the point that continuing to punish her more than 50 years later serves no purpose. She can and deserves to live her elderly years out of prison.

Isn't being served prison food for 50 years a death sentence in itself?

[quote]She has been rehabilitated to the point that continuing to punish her more than 50 years later serves no purpose. She can and deserves to live her elderly years out of prison.

Society's compassion for Van Houten ended when she brutally murdered the La Biancas. She deserves nothing but society's scorn. That is prison's purpose.

I don'r know what to think. If she gets out won't the media be interested in her? Would that be appropriate?

R211: in stating the purposes of imprisonment, you forgot a very important one: "protecting the public."

R211 You are right - some people deserve to be punished forever. Leslie Van Houten is a prime example.

Leslie Van Houten

[quote]There are mitigating circumstances for what a 19-year old did versus what is now an old, nearly broken woman who deserves just a slice of freedom before she too leaves this world.

There really aren't any mitigating circumstances. She was an adult who made a series of decisions ranging from committing murder to lying to the authorities to try to get Manson out of jail. Her first attorney, a man who was trying to help her the best he could, was murdered by the Family for her, and she was glad of it.

She had a slice of freedom before she went to jail, and that's what she chose to do with her freedom.

It's uUnfortunate that there doesn't appear to be much compassion for something that a 19-year old did--who now is nearly 71 and is not a danger to herself or society as deemed by those recommending her parole. She has been rehabilitated. There is no point to having her as some say, "rot in jail."

Manson deserved jail for all of his natural life. Leslie Van Houten deserves parole. She has served her time--and that's the reason why we have parole.

Van Houten deserves to spend the rest of her life in jail, a woman died because of her.

Let the cunt rot, or better yet, catch covid-19, survive, but having painful breathing problems for the rest of her days. I hope she lives to 110 in prison.

[quote]R211 She can and deserves to live her elderly years out of prison.

She does not “deserve” any additional years at all, in or out of prison, as she was SENTENCED TO DEATH.

She was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole, which is how and why she was granted parole. Her first conviction of death along with other members of the Manson family was overturned when the death penalty was ruled unconstitutional in California.

Remember that Van Houten was granted a new trial in 1976 because of the death of her lawyer Ronald Hughes. In 1977, the retrial ended in a hung jury and she posted bail and was set free until her retrial in 1978. There was that brief period of time where she was free.

[quote]R223 Her first conviction of death along with other members of the Manson family was overturned when the death penalty was ruled unconstitutional in California.

As I said, and as you agree, and as everyone knows, she was SENTENCED TO DEATH.

But I’m sure she’d [italic]love [/italic]a fan like you as a pen pal.

Let's put rat poison in her lunch. That would fix her.

[quote] Ronald Hughes [Van Houten's attorney] was among the first lawyers to meet with Charles Manson in December 1969. Initially, he signed on as the attorney for Manson, but was replaced by Irving Kanarek two weeks before the start of the trial.

[quote] Hughes eventually represented Leslie Van Houten in the Tate–LaBianca murder trial. He had failed the bar exam three times before passing and had never tried a case. Hughes, a onetime conservative, was called "the hippie lawyer" due to his intimate knowledge of the hippie subculture.

[quote] As attorney for defendant Van Houten, Hughes tried to separate the interests of his client from those of Manson, a move that angered Manson and may have cost Hughes his life. He hoped to show that Van Houten was not acting independently, but was completely controlled in her actions by Manson. This strategy contradicted Manson's plan to allow fellow family members to implicate themselves in the crimes, clearing him of all involvement.

I don't know how Hughes was ever allowed to be Van Houten's lawyer. He had a conflict of interest because he had been Manson's lawyer, however briefly. You can't confer with Manson, then switch clients and try to point the finger at your former client. (I hate Manson, BTW. One of the few people I feel hatred towards.)

Couldn't Manson and Leslie have okayed it? I'm sure the judge might have blocked it, but if they didn't have a problem with it, why bother?

Hughes is one of the most tragic figures (outside of Sharon, et al) in all of this. He was just legitimately trying to put on a good defense for Leslie, and he ended up dying for it.

R228, looks like Manson didn't like it at all (was "angered"). Yes, both could have consented. Seems like that would have been an appealable issue for Manson.

Tragic death (Hughes), yes. However, he had no business trying a death penalty case. He had no trial experience. (Plus failed the bar exam 3X.)

Having lived all those years under prison regulations, her biggest threat to society is getting out and becoming a crazy Karen.

Prison hasn't been kind to her. She's really looking old!

[quote]Tragic death (Hughes), yes. However, he had no business trying a death penalty case. He had no trial experience. (Plus failed the bar exam 3X.)

I mean, neither should Irving Kanarek. Both he and Susan's lawyer, Daye Shinn ended up getting disbarred.

If she gets out, I know a perfect place for her to live.

R225. I have no intention nor desire to become pen pals with Van Houten. I simply disagree with you and feel she has earned her right to parole after spending 50 years in prison and being approved for parole four previous times throughout the years. More qualified people than you and me have analyzed and reviewed her situation, her age both at the time of the crime and her age now, her remorse, status as a exemplary prisoner, educational degrees earned while in prison, length of time being incarcerated, etc., and determined that she has paid her debt to society regardless of the crime. Her sentence qualified her for parole and she has been approved multiple times. And it has also been determined that she is not a danger to herself or to society in these elderly years of her life and what remains of it.

Not everyone qualifies for parole, for example, Charlie Manson. I agree with the parole board and feel Leslie Van Houten qualifies. As a Californian, I hope that Gov. Newsom grants her release although I have my doubt because this decision will be viewed through a political lens rather than on the findings of the parole board. Perhaps Newsom will have the courage ad conviction to take the advice of the parole board. and accept its decision of remorse, stability and redemption.

I don't think LVH or the others should spend any more time in prison.

I think the original penalty should be applied.

R236, Well, seein' as how old Charlie is croaked,......

R238. Yes, I know Manson died a few years ago. I was just using him as an example of someone who would not deserve parole, while Van Houten does deserve release in my opinion.

Tex Watson was the worse of the worst.

He was allowed to father kids in the California State Prison system. Patricia Krinwinkle, the way she brutally murdered A. Folger is still very horrifying.

Toss the keys away on those two.

LVH, release here. It's been time. Politics shouldn't play a part in keeping her confinded. Thousands over the years have been released in Califrnia after murder having done much less time.

It's not even certain that the Mansons murdered Hughes. His body was so badly decomposed when they found him, the cause of death was unclear. He'd been camping on a weekend of flash floods, and it's quite possible he was swept away by the waters. Yes, the Mansons told people they'd killed Hughes, but that wouldn't have been the first time they lied.

Sure. I mean, he was only pissing off Manson, last seen in the company of a man and a woman who were likely Family members, and then turned up dead weeks later.

I'm sorry, but what do you need? A signed confession?

[quote]R236 I simply disagree with you and feel she has earned her right to parole after spending 50 years in prison

Parole is a privilege, not a right.

R243 Agreed and Leslie Van Houten lost that privilege when she committed murder.

She lucked out being spared the death penalty, and should thank her lucky stars she’s even allowed to breathe.

#SlowYourRoll,Leslie

He wasn't last seen in the company of Manson family members. According to Bugliosi's book, he was last seen by 3 campers in the Sespe Hot Springs area. He was alone but talked briefly with the campers and seemed fine.

^^Ronald Hughes was last seen.

R243. Under her sentence and for her crime committed, she has the right to a parole hearing. Those are the rules under our justice system. I didn't say she had the right to get out of prison. The prisoner has to do his/her time and show that they are worthy and ready to be being released. Leslie Van Houten has more than shown she is worthy. She has been recommended for parole by the parole board four times. The experts judging cases such as these feel she is ready. It's up to a governor to grant the release. But the decision about her has become political and not whether or not she is deemed worthy or has fulfilled the necessary requirements to be considered, which she has done. For a variety of reasons including age, education earned in prison, behavior, what she did at 19 is not what she would do as a a senior citizen and elderly woman. It has been determined that she is no longer a threat to herself or to society.

[quote]R248 But the decision about her has become political

You keep saying that, but should replace it with, “But the decision about her has become something most people don’t want.”

Almost everything has a political component, yet that doesn’t mean it’s what the issue’s fundamentally about.

Has anyone made a musical about her life?

Would one number be “Stabby Spendor”?

She has never taken responsibility for her actions. Her excuse has always been "I was a confused little girl (she was 21 at the time) on drugs who was under the spell of a madman." She blames it all on Charlie.

R248 How's it hangin' John.

Let her stay in your home if she is paroled. Just make sure you lock away your kitchen knives and bedroom door at night.

Does she even want out? Isn't all her family dead? Who would even pick her up from prison? Please, the other prisoners are the only people she has. She will die with them.

When filming "Crybaby" John Waters told Johnny Depp about his dear friend Leslie Van Houten languishing in prison. Depp wanted to visit her! Waters suggested he might rethink doing that; think of the publicity. As it turns out Depp couldn't visit her anyway, because of HIS criminal record. It's too bad he wasn't able to visit her; it might have ended his career and the viewing public would have been spared all the shitty movies he went on to make.

Depp could have played Manson.

I have a good friend who visits Leslie regularly, and has for 30 years or more.

Responding to the arguments and opinions on this thread, a reflective question and a follow-up statement.

Do you believe in the parole system at all? If so, Van Houten has long since demonstrated the rehabilitation, mature remorse, and constructive personal potential necessary for parole.

The Governors' vetoes have been purely political, responding to some weird cargo cult negativity about "hippies"....

Maybe the LaBianca family will hire a hit man to take her out.

All these people screaming for murderer Leslie Van Whore to be released on parole don't seem to every spare a thought for the LaBianca family or the families of the other Manson family victims.

Leslie Van Houten is not the victim here.

"Van Houten has long since demonstrated the rehabilitation, mature remorse, and constructive personal potential necessary for parole."

No, she fucking hasn't! She takes no blame for what she did. She keeps saying "I just did what I was told to do." A poor, helpless little girl who was under the control of Charles Manson. On the night of the LaBianca murders she claimed to be totally passive and only did what she was instructed to do by Tex Watson. The bitch blames everybody else but herself.

R260 Well parole boards, whose job it is to determine remorse etc. have multiple times concluded:

[quote]She is remorseful, has accepted responsibility for her crimes and no longer poses a danger to society.

So, either you believe in the system of parole (some might not, no point in talking to them) or Van Houten has had some unusual higher bar she must meet.

So these are the factors the Parole Board considers:

California Code of Regulations, title 15, section 2281 provides a number of factors tending to show both suitability and unsuitability for parole. These factors are general guidelines and “the importance attached to any circumstance or combination of circumstances in a particular case is left to the judgment of the panel.” (Cal. Code Regs., tit. 15. § 2281, subd. (d).) Factors tending to show an inmate’s suitability include: (1) lack of a juvenile record, (2) stable social history, (3) signs of remorse, (4) motivation for the crime, (5) lack of criminal history, (6) age, (7) understanding and plans for the future, and (8) institutional behavior. (Cal. Code Regs., tit. 15. § 2281, subd. (d)(1)-(9).). The panel will also consider whether the inmate suffered from Battered Woman Syndrome or Intimate Partner Battering at the time of the crime and whether the crime resulted from the inmate’s victimization. (Pen. Code § 4801.) After the panel weighs the evidence, they will consider evidence suggesting unsuitability. The factors of unsuitability include the inmate’s (1) commitment offense, (2) previous record of violence, (3) unstable social history, (4) prior sadistic sexual offenses, (5) psychological factors, including the prisoner’s history of mental problems related to the crime, and (6) institutional misconduct in prison or jail. (Cal. Code Regs., tit. 15. § 2281, subd. (c)(1)-(6).). Additionally, the California Supreme Court has held that an inmate’s lack of insight is a significant factor in determining whether the inmate is currently unsuitable. (In re Shaputis II (2011) 53 Cal.4th 192.)

Board members apparently decided she met the criteria after a review and hearing. I believe she does a lot of work helping other prisoners in addition to the other categories. These are all assessed, with input from victims' families on her likely suitability for parole. If she's found to be a danger, the Board can't recommend release. Now the governor can reverse or modify the decision if he chooses.

One of the purposes of incarceration is to rehabilitate the criminal. The Board may have found this has happened. I don't know if the decision is public. The point of punishment is to make the person pay and also to elicit honest remorse. State law and the Parole Board determine if the criminal has paid for the crime through time and application of the factors. I doubt the board releases anyone without seeing true remorse. People may be right about the politics of this case, that Newsom would be making a bad political decision by releasing her.

[quote]R257 Do you believe in the parole system at all?

Only as a way to keep down violence in prison. That benefit aside, a sentence should be a sentence.

But in the criminal justice system, some offenses are considered especially heinous - -

[quote]R257 The Governors' vetoes have been purely political, responding to some weird cargo cult negativity about "hippies"....

Are you living in 1957?

Who doesn’t love the idea of Burning Man, yoga, dancing through flowers, “free love”, farm fresh produce, etc., in this day and age?

"Well parole boards, whose job it is to determine remorse etc. have multiple times concluded:"

Parole boards have frequently let very dangerous individuals back into society. For some criminals, especially those good at lying and manipulation, "playing" remorseful is just a game. I think Leslie Van Houten is very good at playing remorseful. She's had decades to perfect her act.

She can be paroled... to the garbage dump.

R263 So you believe the criminal justice system is punitive only, not rehabilitative. You values and position are clear and consistent them.

Just very different than mine. I've worked in adult education for over 40 years, including administering education programs in jails and prisons. I believe entirely in authentic moral rehabilitation. I have seen it. Justice is best tempered by mercy.

The prison system is NOT set up to rehabilitate prisoners.

It would look very different if it were.

[quote]R267 Justice is best tempered by mercy.

The mercy this killer showed when she was stabbing an innocent, bound, blindfolded woman sixteen times, while hearing her husband butchered in the next room?

That mercy?

What Leslie did was unfathomably depraved and wrong. She has spent 50 years in prison for essentially stabbing a corpse when she was young, impressionable, and brainwashed.

We will never forget her atrocious crime, but we should forgive, given that she has shown herself to be rehabilitated and with the potential to help others and contribute to society.

The power of forgiveness. 2:30 and following, powerful moments.

You can forgive someone while still believing they should stay locked up.

[quote]R270 She has spent 50 years in prison for essentially stabbing a corpse

She also held down and immobilized that woman as she was repeatedly stabbed.

Why do you leave that out?

Sorry I can’t jump on your #FreeLeslie! bandwagon.

"She has spent 50 years in prison for essentially stabbing a corpse when she was young, impressionable, and brainwashed."

She SAYS she stabbed a corpse. But I think she's lying. And she wasn't "brain washed." She committed her crimes of her own free will. She WANTED to kill "the pigs."

By the way, after they finished butchering Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, Watson, Krenwinkle, and Van Houten fixed themselves a snack from the refrigerator. They snacked on cheese and chocolate milk.

He should let her out. Any other woman in the exact same circumstance would've been paroled in the '80s. It's only because of the notoriety of the crime that she's still locked up. At this point, it's not justice. It's petty and vengeful.

She was 18 years old, and under the influence of a charismatic madman. Manson used drugs, hypnosis, psychological manipulation, and sleep deprivation to get those kids to do his bidding.

Mercy is the highest calling of man. Time to show some mercy, Gavin Newsom.

I hope they let her out and she drops dead in the prison parking lot. Otherwise, if she needs a job she can be a co host on the view. Maybe share a dressing room with Meghan Mcain.

And, r240, thirteen have been executed by California since 1977, when the DP was re-instated.

I guess timing really is everything.

"She was 18 years old, and under the influence of a charismatic madman. Manson used drugs, hypnosis, psychological manipulation, and sleep deprivation to get those kids to do his bidding."

Oh shut UP. She was 20 years old. It was established at their trial that none of the Manson killers killed under duress. They weren't on drugs the nights of the murders. The murders were organized and premeditated: they had careful instructions. They wouldn't have been able to carry the murders out they way they intended if they'd been fucked up on drugs. You're either a troll just trying to get a rise out of people or a mindless fool.

This was long ago, she has been punished enough, let the woman go!

In addition, as to the massive interest in these particular murders: The killers laughed. Walking down the halls of justice they laughed and smiled. Their female cohorts sat vigil outside, complete with shaved heads and "X"es carved into their foreheads. The crimes referenced the Beatles. Nixon declared them guilty and almost put the kibosh on the trial. A lawyer disappeared.

Almost too much of interest, right after the Moon landing and Chappaquiddick.

R279, What does "enough" mean here? Length of time? Living conditions? Forced daily to face her crimes? Didn't get to bid Charlie farewell?

She escaped execution. That's enough mercy for her.

So, what would become of her if she were let out? What could she do? Where would she go? I don't think the victims' families would be well-served by her making a living via endless talk shows and news interviews -With the eventual book and movie deals. Beyond that, is she psychologically equipped to live in our present society? The world is a very different place from fifty years ago, and she has spent nearly two-thirds of her life in prison. Not to mention the fact that she is notorious. Could she even live safely without protection?

She should be burned at the stake. She could have left. She could have gone for help but instead she grabbed a knife and started stabbing. Imagine what it was like for the victim.

R262 The are also factors like committing cold blooded murder that should keep Van Houten behind bars forever.

She must remain in prison for two reasons. One - she committed a cold blooded premeditated crime Two - She'll do it again.

Once they get a taste for blood, there’s no saving them.

She’s probably killed a lot of staff, inmates, and visitors on the inside, over the years... yet cleverly concealed it.

Where is the proof she [italic]hasn’t??

LVH has stated in at least one interview that she was responsibility for her part in taking all that life out of Rosemary. So the argument that she takes no responsibility is false. Krenwinkle and Van Houten initially were trying to hold Rosemary down but she kept fighting, grabbed the lamp that they tied her neck with and started swinging it. They both called Tex and he took Rosemary down with stab wounds. Van Houten went out to the hallway, stared in the den and has stated she has no sound memory of Rosemary dying. Tex had already killed a few people, and was crazed as hell, so there’s no reason to disbelieve he was the one that delivered the fatal stabs. Van Houten had nothing to do with Leno, that was all on Tex.

Tex said Manson wanted everyone’s hands dirty so Leslie stabbed her also. A dead woman. At this point it’s a waste of taxpayers money to keep her in. She didn’t run off and murder anyone in the 70s during her first parole. Let the woman out.

Responsible-first sentence.^

Somewhere along the line is not rehabilitation a goal of the US prison system?

If she's rehabilitates, and qualifies for [parole, let her out.

R289 the American prison system is a multi million dollar business. People get huge sentences not in line with their offenses. In some areas, people still get years for weed possession. Ass backwards country we live in.

She was released from prison between her second and third trial. Did she kill anyone then? It's not likely she's going to kill again.

[quote]R287 Krenwinkle and Van Houten initially were trying to hold Rosemary down but she kept fighting, grabbed the lamp that they tied her neck with and started swinging it.

God damn that unreasonable bitch!

[quote]They both called Tex and he took Rosemary down with stab wounds.

After the gals had already stabbed her hard enough to to bend their knife out of shape.

R248, you can keep fucking that chicken, but you’re not going to change my mind or the minds of most of the people who don’t support her release.

[quote]R289 Somewhere along the line is not rehabilitation a goal of the US prison system?

If rehabilitation was the goal, they wouldn’t put prisoners in solitary confinement.

Which, of course, happens daily.

Keeping her locked up at this point is petty and vengeful. She has substantially paid for a crime she committed at age 18 while under the influence of madman who plied with with drugs, and used various psychological techniques to control her.

Any other woman who'd partaken in any murder in 1969 would've been paroled in the '80s. It is only for the notoriety of this crime that she remains locked up. It is unfair, and unjust.

[quote]Keeping her locked up at this point is petty and vengeful. She has substantially paid for a crime she committed at age 18 while under the influence of madman who plied with with drugs, and used various psychological techniques to control her.

Keep fucking that chicken.

R292 Rosemary wasn’t stabbed before Tex was called. He rendered the first blows.

She will be a celebrity on the shock talk show circuit and be quite generously funded by Waters and Depp. You people who want to see that sickening spectacle while the relatives look on in the deepest turmoil are truly fucked up.

"So, what would become of her if she were let out? What could she do? Where would she go?"

She'd probably live a nice life. She has friends in high places, John Waters among them. She's travel and go to parties and meet interesting people. She'd probably even have male groupies who would want to be her husband or boyfriend.

She'd probably even go to the Academy Awards. John Waters wrote how Van Houten would just be another anonymous person if she got out of prison. While she was out on bail while waiting for a retrial she went to THE ACADEMY AWARDS. How did she manage to do that? Like I said, she had friends in high places, so I guess that's how she could go there. But think of it: a Manson killer, who broke into the home of people she didn't even know, and cut them to pieces, going to events like the Academy Awards. It makes one want to vomit.

Mr. Waters would put her in his next film.

I’m sure that’s his dream.

This is her FOURTH time being recommended.

STFU 296, not only should she be released now, it should of happened years ago!

She could get out and start a knife sharpening business.

[quote]R301 This is her FOURTH time being recommended.

Many are nominated for an Academy Award and never win.

There’s no guarantees.

Squeaky Fromme has been out on parole for years AND SHE TRIED TO ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT.

I've always wondered why Squeaky wasn't along on those two fatal nights. She was such a true believer, you think she would have jumped at the chance.

OP starts this same thread a couple of times a year to engender outrage & engage in her True Crime obsession. She’ll stew on the Manson family, then bring up her obsession with the totally pedestrian Zodiac case which she finds *so scary* & the Hillside Strangler & EARS ON case. Then it’s the obvious drug killings in the Keddie cabin & the mother, daughter & friend disappearance somewhere in the Midwest on high school graduation night that haunts her.

Van Houten has not been paroled. She’s not going to get paroled.

She could get a job as a butcher at Publix.

Squeaky lives with her husband in tiny, upstate Marcy, New York. I wonder how many block parties they get invited to.

I'm the OP, R307, and I've never before started any kind of thread on the Manson family. I've also never started a thread on the Zodiac Killer. Lots of people are interested in True Crime.

^^ [italic]witness [/italic]the devil’s lies ! ! !

I heard Tyson chicken processing plant is hiring. Leslie would do great on the line.

Susan Atkins had brain cancer and an amputated leg and they wouldn't even give her a mercy release in the end. Totally proper in my mind.

OMG, R311, take a Xanax and STFU already.

Let her out. it’s time.

Maybe that new Lucy series could have an episode where Lucy moves out to the country and it turns out her neighbor is Squeaky Fromme. Vivian could carve an X into her forehead and pretend to be the maid.

[quote]I've always wondered why Squeaky wasn't along on those two fatal nights. She was such a true believer, you think she would have jumped at the chance.

I always wondered if Charlie considered Squeaky to be a bit of a fuck-up and so never let her be anything more than a hanger-on.

I worked with a guy one time who corresponded with one of Charlie's girlfriends. He was an autograph collector and was trying to get Manson's autograph. I think the girlfriend was one of Charlie's "prison" girlfriends, meaning that she was on the outside but somehow had a relationship with him while he was in prison.

I think Squeaky was probably the least expendable to Manson.

I have a question. Didn't Leslie carve her forehead during the trial? How come you don't see it in OP's picture? Was it not deep enough to make a lasting scar?

Clem Grogan has been released. He was only involved in the murder of a ranch hand, so obviously some killings are more equal than others.

Was Leslie the one who giggled her way through the trial?

In "Helter Skelter" Vincent Bugliosi said that when Linda Kasabian was testifying about the murders Patricia Krenwinkel "sketched", Susan Atkins "giggled" and Leslie Van Houten "looked bored." There's lots of film footage of those three during the trial, walking handing in hand and singing and smiling from ear to ear. All of them were/are sociopaths.

[quote]R322 when Linda Kasabian was testifying about the murders, Patricia Krenwinkel "sketched", Susan Atkins "giggled" and Leslie Van Houten "looked bored."

Leslie wanted to be out on her next kill.

Untrue, R297. They had been trying to stab Rosemary Labianca but the knife hit her sternum and bent. That's why Leslie called for Tex for help.

R324 well Rosemary was able to get up and start swinging the lamp. If the knife bent, I find it hard to believe there was a puncture, unless the wound was superficial.

Do you know how much adrenaline would have been rushing through that poor lady’s body??

They could have ripped her ARM off and she’d still instinctively have got up to fight for her and her husband’s lives!

Get a clue.

You seem really irritated that Rosemary LaBianca dared hit members of the Manson family with a lamp as they were trying to murder her. You've brought it up multiple times now.

Well, granted, Rosemary was [italic]not[/italic] being a very good hostess.

Did she offer them a cup of tea?

You know how stressful it is when guests drop in unannounced.

My guess is her resume to Folger's Coffee.hits the round file.

Leslie would be excellent as the new host on The Dating Game.

R327 For fucks sake I’m not irritated at her swinging the lamp. Only a moron like you would think I think that. I’m stating that to reconstruct the story, but you knew that already. R326 And if she was stabbed in the lower back like you surmise, with enough force to bend the knife, even with adrenaline, I seriously doubt she could stand up. So you get a goddamn clue.

How dare Rosemary take a lamp to our beloved Leslie.

The girls were such useless failures on the nights of the murders. Tex had to do pretty much ALL the work.

They were but worthless fraus in training - -

" Tex had to do pretty much ALL the work."

Well, he seemed to be in charge. But Krenwinkel and Van Houten were enthusiastic participants. Krenwinkel carved "WAR" into Leno LaBianca's stomach. She also stuck a fork in him; I guess she considered him "done." She also wrote in blood in on the walls misspelling "Helter Skelter" as "Healter Skelter." Van Houten help subdue and stab Rosemary LaBianca, along with Krenwinkel. After they finished she wiped fingerprints and helped to get rid of evidence. It was cold blooded, premeditated murder; how and anyone who did what they did EVER be considered for parole? It's mind boggling.

"It is unfair, and unjust."

Yeah, right...

I think all murderers ought to rot in jail. She's the epitome of cold blooded freaky inhuman behaviour. We're not discussing manslaughter, or reckless homicide here, rather something far more sinister. I don't care if she has been rehabilitated either, as I believe the sentence for murder IS punishment, not simply protecting the general populace. She is lucky to still be alive actually.

As the brilliant poster upthread remarked, it isn't for "society" to forgive murderers, or any other inmates really. I'm not Christian, and reject that general tenet or mandate for every perp and every victim anyhow.

I agree with R339.

Cold blood murderers should never be released. Its very different from manslaughter, self defence or accident incidents which result in death. Van Houten was involved in a planned premeditated murder. No excuses, no forgiveness ever.

[quote]I think all murderers ought to rot in jail.

Agreed. First and second degree murder should mean forever locked up.

As Krenwinkel repeatedly stabbed her while pinned down on the ground, Abigail Folger said "Stop. I'm already dead."

The idea that one could end another’s life and expect (even DEMAND, as Van Houten has done in her lawsuits) to get their own back is mind boggling.

She is old now and has been in prison for 50 years. She has more than paid her debt to society. Let the poor woman go!

We heard you the first three hundred times, r344. Luckily for us and you, you are not the final arbiter.

R325, Your ignorance approaches Trumpian levels.

[quote]She is old now and has been in prison for 50 years. She has more than paid her debt to society. Let the poor woman go!

No she hasn't. Her debt to society will end when her life ends in prison. I am talking about society, not the legal system here. You plan and plot to take someone's life then there should be consequences for that action. Time out is for children. Adults committing murder need punishment not a time out.

I say once you commit murder, that's it, you need to be removed form society, you are too dangerous. So even if 50 years later you are born again or whatever, that's just too bad, you still have to live with the consequences of your actions, just like the people who's lives you destroyed. If she had any redeeming qualities she would acknowledge that and not ask for parole again. That's how she could prove she's changed.

R346 of course you were in the Labianca house so you know exactly what happened. Blocked fuckwad.

[quote] Well, granted, Rosemary was not being a very good hostess.

The LaBiancas were awful hosts -- didn't even offer their guests a little wine and cheese.

Parole is a privilege. 50 years may sound like a lot of time to rehabilitate but in reality some individuals are psychopaths and can never be rehabilitated and I believe that LVH is one these.

The years will not erase the family’s pain and suffering, nor will it bring back their loved ones. She got lucky in that she only received 50 years, she should have been executed. She should be thankful that she gets to take another breath daily, a luxury her victims do not have.

Another thing for the troll insisting that the parole board has determined that she meets the criteria for release; parole boards are not infallible and there are plenty of instances where they released an individual that went on to reoffend. Google is your friend you should try it.

Oh, come now. Seventy-year-old Leslie Van Houten, a half-century away from the poisonous influence of the Manson family, is not going to hurt anyone. Argue that she deserves to stay locked up because of her part in the LaBianca murders--that, at least, is a defensible position. But to act like she's going to get out and go on an interstate killing spree is just silly.

R348 believes as a Deplorable: facts don't matter; coroner's reports don't matter; police reports don't matter; and sworn testimonies don't matter.

Which of you would be willing to rent out a room in your houses (with full kitchen access) to Leslie?

[quote] But to act like she's going to get out and go on an interstate killing spree is just silly.

True. And ONCE AGAIN, she was free on bail between her second and third trial, which was much closer to the actual series of events than she is now. She didn't kill while she was out on bail.

R351. Very good point well-stated.

I believe Van Houten should be released. Others may disagree. She has earned her parole in my opinion and in the opinion of four separate parole boards throughout the years who have also recommended her release. I guess that can be endlessly debated on DL and elsewhere. But to argue that she’s a danger to society and will become a criminal endangering others at this stage in her life is rather preposterous.

And it’s not a question of whether or not I would allow her kitchen rights in my house as some have suggested in other posts. That’s not the standard of parole. The standard is can she live on her own or with a friend or relative and function as best suits her capabilities and circumstances.

R64, I believe Newsom would be LVH's best shot at parole. Jerry Brown was very much alive when the killings took place, and so I think this crime had a more visceral, indelible association to him. I think maybe that's also why the parole board has been recommending parole for LVH the last few go-arounds -- members are younger now, weren't around when the crime happened, and they just a feeble old lady.

Who knows how many people she has been a deterrent to in the past 50 years? People who thought about committing a crime then thought,"I don't want to end-up like Leslie, life in prison".

they just *SEE^^

She's a murderous psychopath. Why you are saying she can't be one in her 70s defies all explanation unless you want to make a movie called Female Trouble Too.

None of the other Manson members, even those later convicted of murder or attempted murder, have gone on to murder more people once released from jail. To argue that Van Houten, who may not even have killed anyone, will kill again is ludicrous.

She should stay in prison simply because her crimes were so monstrous and heinous. No one who did what she and her cohorts did should ever be let out of prison.

[quote]She's a murderous psychopath. Why you are saying she can't be one in her 70s defies all explanation unless you want to make a movie called Female Trouble Too.

R359. Various experts on the parole board over the years have concluded that she's not a danger to society. It wasn't just some random decision. There has been all sorts of research and psychological tests and studies done to come to this conclusion. If you don't believe in parole notably someone in his/her seventies, well then, that's another discussion. But under our justice system, even those who have committed murder are selectively and periodically eligible for a parole hearing and then for possible parole. Four parole boards have concluded that after 50 years, Van Houten is not a danger to herself or to others. If you were to deny parole to everyone or to everyone who has committed murder, then there is no point in having it. It's not given to everyone. Parole also remains a carrot or reward for those prisoners who want to work hard and earn their way back into society.

Sometimes, the nature of our justice system is not to lock someone up forever and thrown away the key. Whether you agree with it or not, rehabilitation is part of the mix and a possibility especially for someone who committed a crime 50 years ago. Sometimes justice is right to show no mercy, while other times, justice is served when there is a component of mercy or redemption. Under the parole board's rules four separate times, Leslie Van Houten has qualified for justice with redemption. I hope Gov. Newsom agrees.

She would have been out 40 yrs ago if it wasn’t the Manson murders. Same crime, accessory to murder would be 10- 20, with parole around the 10-12 yr mark in VERY crowded California prisons.

Tex Watson & Patricia Krenwinkle killed that woman.

"Tex Watson & Patricia Krenwinkle killed that woman."

Van Houten eagerly helped them do it. Which makes her equally responsible for the ghastly murders of the LaBiancas.

It's Leslie's misfortune that there are no faceless victims (or perpetrators) in the Tate-LaBianca slayings. We know all the names and we know all the faces. It makes the community's revulsion at the crime and insistence on punishment more intense.

But, as I remember, they wanted to shock the world. Reap what you sow.

R354 How do you or any of us know she didn't kill somebody when she was out on bail. There are plenty of unsolved murders and she sure has form.

Is it true Patty Krenwinkel drinks Folgers coffee every morning??

Didn't she stick a fork into Rosemary Labianca while she lay dying to watch it move back and forth to her failing heartbeat? They should have executed her .

R368, that was Krenwinkel, I think. And she did that to poor Leno LaBianca.

Why did they choose the LaBianca house?

Tasteful friends, opinions on the Cielo Drive home?

R370 Manson and family members had previously partied at the home next door to the LaBiancas, so Manson was familiar with the area. Family members had gone through the LaBianca home and did their creepy crawl, meaning they would go in move shit around, just to freak out the owners. Rosemary had stated she knew someone had been through the home. What gets me is how easily Charlie and Tex got in. They just walked in and tied up the LaBiancas. The LaBiancas knew someone had been through the house, and knew about the Tate murders just before they were killed, so why the fuck would’nt you double check all the locks?! The outcome was probably going to be the same. But this is still all too weird 51 years later.

I think Van Houten should be paroled. It's time.

However, on just a slightly different...if you ever want to read the scariest and most compelling book ever, read "Helter Skelter: The True Story of The Manson Murders" by prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi. The story is unbelievable. Manson was something else. You cannot put the book down. Fascinating read.

I like Newsom but in this case grow a pair and let her out

"I think Van Houten should be paroled. It's time."

Oh fuck that "it's time" shit. So what if she's been in prison for decades? It's all she deserved. She doesn't deserve to get out. She should have been executed and her life was spared. She doesn't deserve any more leniency.

^^Van Houten has fulfilled the requirements of the four parole boards. They have recommended her for parole four times It's time.

She looks like an ancient Susan St. James wearing an ancient Big Edie's glasses.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

She was a teenager when she committed her crimes. She was the youngest woman in Calif to be sentenced to death. To deny parole at this point in time is peculiar. Its not as if life outside would be easy for her

The pro LVH poster has the weird doggedness of the Meghan Markle freaks that swing by nightly to say the same thing again and again.

R379. Referring to yourself?

No. Symbolically and literally, the crimes committed by the ‘family’ were just too high profile & gruesome to let any of the remaining ‘family’ out.

Why did they let Steve Grogan out?

He was deemed by a judge "too stupid and too hopped on drugs to decide anything on his own" and was even considered retarded by the Manson Family. He also cooperated with authorities, rather than pledging allegiance to Manson.

Had it been up to me r382, he wouldn’t have gotten out either. Maybe institutionalized, but not released.

Fuck Leslie. She is lucky she was not gassed as she was sentenced to be. If she wants to do something nice for humankind she would find a way to commit suicide in prison.

So she has been recommended for parole 4 times. Her crime still is sending shock waves through society a half a century later. This alone tells you most people do not want her out including the relatives of the victims. I know your attitude towards them is fuck 'em and you want to see her feted by the Polanski Limousine liberals. You're twisted people who want to hear her dine out on these crimes for the rest of her life.

And if she was truly repentant she would accept her punishment and not cause those left behind constant trauma. But she seems to great satisfaction out of it. She is full of shit.

R386 Great post. I agree 100% with your comments.

The only justice for the families of the victims is for Van Houten to remain behind bars until she dies.

So do you all think parole should be abolished?

R388 In general no. But in the case of cold blood premeditated murder it shouldn't even be considered.

If the Tate-LaBianca murderers should not stay imprisoned for life, then who should?

This isn't even the philosophical issue of the death penalty, to which, it seems worthy of constant repetition, all were originally sentenced.

Does mercy in justice have to be one of the other? Why not let her end her days in a minimum security setting? That way those who feel she can never be released are satisfied and those who feel she must have the sun on her face and see butterflies and write poems beneath a giant oak can imagine some fairness in this world.

Worth nothing, every time a governor overrode a parole board the decision was appealed to either the appela board or the courts, so it isn’t like the decisions are without merit or scrutiny.

Fun fact, LVH is in the same jail as DL fav Betty Broderick. I suppose she should be considered for parole too, if only for then hours of entertainment she’s provided.

Did I hit a nerve, R380. Sorry but with all the wrong in the world Leslie van Houten seems an odd cause to champion to this extent. But everybody gets their freak on, I guess. You seem kinda Manson girly though, I gotta say.

[quote] Fun fact, LVH is in the same jail as DL fav Betty Broderick.

I do think it's ironic that a lot of the same fraus who want LVH to burn in hell cheered Betty Broderick on and would probably champion her release. Go figure.

What a bunch of rabid, blood thirty goons. She should be released and allowed to live out whatever time she has left in peace.

I hear the La Bianca home is on sale. Maybe that should release Leslie and put her up in that house under house arrest.

R394 I don't see how wanting a convicted self confused murderer in one of the most hideous crimes ever committed to remain in prison for the rest of her life is being rabid or blood thirsty.

As others have said on this thread there are plenty of legitimate wrongly convicted people serving time - spend your time trying to get them the justice and prison release they deserve. Van Houten deserves her prison sentence and may she live a very long life in prison to reflect on her evil crimes.

I wonder if Leslie Van Houten, Patty Krenwinkel, and Betty Broderick play bridge together?

I get the fury of those who want LVH to stay in jail... still remain puzzled by the intensity of the support for her release.

Their arguments make logical sense. But in the end there is always choice. In the end, all but the most mentally damaged understand the choice between right and wrong. It's basic. It's gut instinct. We all make those choices thousands of times each day. They might be described as mistakes but her "mistakes", they were a 10 out of 10. She may have changed but perhaps that doesn't atone for what landed her in prison in the first place.

good for her for becoming a model prisoner. But, frankly, that's what she should have done. Should she have just continued to turn her back on the expectations of society and waited out her sentence? She's got a part to play in her rehabilitation too and I acknowledge she did. But she was party to horrific crimes. She needed to do something to atone for what [italic]she allowed to happen to her and for her choice to do wrong, not right[/italic]

Now can there be compassion for a well behaved convicted criminal who is aging? Yes. Maybe that compassion might dictate some kind of less onerous incarceration at the end of for life. But not for what it says about her but what is say about our values as a society.

Technically, yes, she may qualify for release on parole. But in the end parole, in the end, is [bold]granted.[/bold] That's the distinction. She is entitled to nothing except process and consideration.

I read that Leslie and Patricia are not allowed any contact. After all this time, I doubt they want any.

I can understand Betty's impotent rage and murderous fury being fucked over repeatedly by a powerful man who used her and then treated her like soiled toilet paper in a way from which she could never recover and would make her a joke for the rest of her life. Leslie's barbaric gory actions have no explanation but pure evil in human form.

She should be released and forced to live with Leslie Jones 24/7 for the rest of her life.

At least she has a chance at parole. The Menendez brothers will never have that chance, even though they have been in prison for nearly 30 years.

" It's time."

It's time for you to shut up. You're an yammering idiot.

I don't think LVH should get out, but if you read any thread about Betty Broderick, some [frau] posters are much more sympathetic to her and think she should get out -- even though she's admitted to no remorse and also murdered in cold blood.

Erik Menendez in particular should never have been given a life sentence without the possibility of parole. He was only 18 when the murders occurred and was probably talked into it by Lyle. It was simply way too harsh of a sentence.

I find it astonishing that someone handed a life in prison sentence has any will to live. The worst living conditions imaginable, no privacy, awful disgusting food, not able to see friends or family frequently, no freedom and being confined to a very small area, no enjoyable sex or members of opposite gender (if prisoner is hereto), year after year after year.

Leslie Van Houten has been confined within the equivalent of a two block compound for almost 50 years! To anyone who doesn’t think that’s enough punishment for a crime she committed at 19, you are clearly unrepentant, vengeful, unforgiving people. Forgiveness is not a right, it’s a privilege and Leslie has earned hers. Letting her spend the few years she has left as a free woman is in no way disrespecting or minimizing her victim, Ms. LaBianca. Leslie has spent her entire adult life behind bars as punishment.

"Erik Menendez in particular should never have been given a life sentence without the possibility of parole. He was only 18 when the murders occurred and was probably talked into it by Lyle. It was simply way too harsh of a sentence."

The Menendez brothers are stone cold psychopaths. After the murders of their parents (which was carefully premeditated) they partied like it was 1999. They, in the words of Dominique Dunne, "bought and bought and bought." I remember they had that crazy lawyer, Leslie Abramson. She loved to get murderers off. She looked like a nut herself; she had the craziest hair, a mop of bleached blonde corkscrewed curls. Her look was copied in "Fatal Attraction."

R405, Your syntax is appropriate for your intention, but appalling for that. "When the murders occurred" is that no-agency passive voice. Somehow, these murders simply "occurred"!

No. Erik was 18 when he and his brother murdered their parents. Active voice.

[quote] Letting her spend the few years she has left as a free woman is in no way disrespecting or minimizing her victim, Ms. LaBianca.

Yes, nothing says respect for a murdered woman like letting one of her killers go free.

[quote] Forgiveness is not a right, it’s a privilege and Leslie has earned hers.

By your value system, which you may have noticed also justifies your calling anyone who disagrees with you unrepentant, unforgiving and vengeful. (By the way, if there’s a dictionary up there on your high horse you may want to refer to it regarding the meaning of the word unrepentant and why you don’t know what you’re talking about when you use it as you have. But that’s righteousness. Invoke first and edit later, I guess.)

By my value system it would’ve been wrong to put Leslie Van Houten to death by the state as punishment for her crime. But I have no problem with her ending her life in prison. She was party to and helped commit the most terrible crime there is. She took the life of an innocent person. She helped take their life away there’s no coming back from that, you know? At least for the victim. If you wanna get sentimental about that because she’s old lady fill your fucking boots. And obviously my opinion doesn’t matter. I disagree so, I’m just unrepentant, unforgiving and vengeful

R406 = John Waters

Rosemary was dead before Leslie got her hands dirty with the stabbing she did. I don’t know what you posters don’t understand about this. Even Suzanne, Rosemary’s daughter, has forgiven Tex (the one who killed her) and feels he should be released. That’s not something I could do. But that’s the way she feels. Was Leslie innocent in all this? No. But there are degrees of every crime. I think spending more than half your life in prison for this huge life altering mistake is sufficient punishment. If it was your daughter, wife or you in prison because of this, you’d be whistling a different tune.

If she were my daughter I would urge her to commit suicide. She is trash!

Rosemary's Susan La Berge daughter is a born-again loon. Doris Tate once rightfully referred to Susan as a "dumb shit".

If it was my parents butchered, who died in terror, I’d be singing a different tune as well.

It’s nice the daughter has reconciled herself to this. The administration of justice is as much for the whole as for the parts. She was sentenced seven years to life. Guess she got life. More than the LaBiancas.

" I think spending more than half your life in prison for this huge life altering mistake is sufficient punishment. If it was your daughter, wife or you in prison because of this, you’d be whistling a different tune."

"Life altering mistake?" Yeah, her life got "altered" while the LaBiancas ended up six feet under. I'd say little Leslie got the better end of the deal.

Governor Newsom is a good man, he needs to do the right thing and free Leslie!

R192 John Waters is worse than deplorable now. He's NOT FUNNY anymore.

[quote] You seem really irritated that Rosemary LaBianca dared hit members of the Manson family with a lamp as they were trying to murder her.

What type of lamp was it? Was it an ugly lamp?

[quote] If she were my daughter I would urge her to commit suicide. She is trash!

A gay dad’s advice to his daughter.

Leslie looking stylish

R420 She looks very 'innocent' in that photo. Proof that looks deceive. Keep her locked up until she is dead.

I wish Ms. Van Houten all the best of luck during this precipitous time on the brink of her long deserved freedom. I would be happy to know her, she is a danger to no one. She's led a life of service and has more than atoned for her forced drug induced participation in a cult murder more than 50 years ago. Most of us weren't near born then. It's barbaric that she is still imprisoned. There is mercy in this world and there too must be forgiveness. She is welcome at our home for an extended stay while she gets her bearings in a vastly different world. Poor woman deserves the peace of nature and quiet pleasures. Good food, some nice books, a lovely bed to sleep in. A free life, as free as a caged animal can ever feel. We await her release. Godspeed Leslie. Now is your time.

They killed a young closeted gayling, Steven Parent. It was rumored he went over for some midnight hanky panky with the houseboy and was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course everyone forgets about him, the focus has always been only on Sharon's death

R422 Is John Waters.

Throw her a parade, why don’tcha?

R411, Don't be so sure about that "wife or daughter" assertion. I think I'd be sufficiently horrified to divorce or disown and maybe even change my surname. As for were it I, the mere suggestion shows the paucity of your argument.

"They killed a young closeted gayling, Steven Parent."

Leslie wasn't in on that one. Parent was the first one killed when the Manson maniacs descended on Sharon Tate's house. He was leaving the premises when he encountered Tex and the gang. His last words were "Please don't hurt me! I won't say anything." Then Tex shot him four times and slashed him with a knife. He had been visiting the "caretaker (actually he wasn't much of one)" of the Tate house and trying to get him to buy a clock radio (Parent was selling stuff). I have no idea where any gay rumors about Parent came from. Actually, very little is known about him. He was 18 years old; there probably wasn't much TO know. Maybe the rumors started with William Garrett, the "caretaker." He was a weird duck. Long after the Manson murders he was a supporter of some loony who claimed to be Sharon Tate's child. At any rate, Steven Parent is barely mentioned there's talk of the Manson murders. There's really not a whole lot of say about him.

How did the caretaker get out of being murdered?

Pretty sure he played the so hard to get good help these days card.

r428 it is rumored that he knew Patricia Krenwinkle and she spared his life.

R430, he told Hairy Patty she had a hot ass and she was so unused to the compliment on her looks, she didn't stab him like a piggy!

I like reading others' opinions of whether or not LVH should be paroled. Personally, I feel she should be released. However, could I ask that all those stating that she should commit suicide just stop. You add nothing to the discussion. Besides, if LVH hasn't killed herself by now, she is probably not going to do so. Apparently, she has quite a lot of perseverance and will to live regardless of your opinion of her.

I read a transcript of an interview with LVH and her attorney in 1969. Girl was certifiably crazy, talking about Helter Skelter, Revolution 9, and the hole beneath Death Valley leading to paradise.

The interview is available on Youtube, but can't link here because it's one hour long and too much for this thread.

John Waters is the greatest person who ever lived!

"John Waters is the greatest person who ever lived!"

Shut up, Leslie.

Leslie could easily live another 15-20 years. This would afford her many years of helping other female inmates doing her good works. Otherwise she'll just get herself drunk and make bad use of her freedom giving Johnny Depp blowjobs while John Waters watches and giggles.

But R427, I feel quite certain that Leslie would’ve been happy to stab him after he was dead.

After Leslie commits suicide we can all stick a fork in her.

R427, William Garretson was the "houseboy" hired by gay owner of the Cielo property Rudi Altobelli to "watch the dogs." He, otherwise, got to live in the guesthouse for free.

An older man just hiring a houseboy to watch dogs -- Sure, Jan!

Garretson hid in the guest house the night of the murders and the Manson clan never found him. For years he maintained that he didn't hear what was going on because his radio was too loud, but in later years he admitted that he saw what was happening and hid. With no working phones or other ways to contact the cops, he can't be blamed for hiding. If he'd tried to help, they'd have killed him too.

Where did he hide? I would have tried to run I think.

[quote] I would have tried to run I think.

Abigail Folger did try to run.

The poster here who is so obsessed with these murders is A) very old, and B) more violent in their ideation than Leslie Van Houten ever was in her actions. They keep repeating the same things, as if these murders happened to them personally. Sharon Tate's sister is a sad fame whore and a vindictive piece of trash. She's been pimping out her sister's corpse for years. Watch any interview with her and then watch one of Leslie Van Houten's parole hearings. Then you can judge who is sane and who is better woman.

People are entitled to their moral opinions, I guess. But the death penalty is always wrong. THE Manson Murders are a HUGE fetish of ONE single poster here. They are avenging nothing with their outrage and selective recounting of events. Just fingering themselves while they wish death upon an old woman. That same poster is crazy on more than a few other subjects. CRAZY. Perhaps dangerous.

Of course LVH deserves to be set free. She should have been paroled 25 years ago. There are far worse and more gruesome murders that happen all the time. That makes nothing right. But LVH's participation was minimal and she's been so clearly remorseful and transformed for more than 40 years now. She deserved parole the second time she was up for it. I feel sad that she is a prisoner of the vengeful minds who get off on reliving the "Manson Murders" and not inconsequentially - their own youth. These people are old and sad. They remember the Manson Murders like their first big concert. The poster here who keeps urging suicide, murder and death for LVH is clearly more disturbed than anyone else.

I know she'll never get out. But I hope Newsome does the right thing. Former Governor Jerry Brown knew better - but was a dickless coward. Fucking Linda Ronstadt will do that to you.

Buck would have succeeded.

[quote]Garretson hid in the guest house the night of the murders and the Manson clan never found him. For years he maintained that he didn't hear what was going on because his radio was too loud, but in later years he admitted that he saw what was happening and hid. With no working phones or other ways to contact the cops, he can't be blamed for hiding. If he'd tried to help, they'd have killed him too.

Charlie went back after the crew got back to Spahn Ranch and creepy-crawled the house, rearranging furniture, and just trying to make it easier for the police to tie it to the Gary Hinman murder. That idea is terrifying in and of itself, but I am damned sure he found William Garretson and let him live for some reason,

He knew the guest house was there.

None of the Manson family "found" William Garretson. He survived because of luck. After finding the people in Tate's house and butchering them the Manson crew hightailed it out of there, not waiting around to see if there was anybody in the guest house. I remember an interview where Garretson said he heard noises but thought it was just people kidding around. He heard gun shots but thought they were "firecrackers." He heard a woman screaming "Stop! Stop! I'm already dead!" and thought that was strange (how could anyone be "already dead" if they were capable of talking?) but didn't bother to investigate. If he had ventured out no doubt he would have been discovered and killed. Seems to me he was a clueless dunce, which may have helped save him. Despite hearing strange noises he didn't do anything, and it saved his ass.

^ fingering itself again ^

This thread is not about Leslie Van Houten's unlikely freedom. It's an excuse for R446 to relive her juicy memories of 1970. A grotesque display. Insanity is here.

R447, you're not even making sense. Insanity is indeed here and you personify it. You're nuttier than a squirrel turd.

I made perfect sense. Your insanity is all over this thread R448. You post from several devices but your crazy voice is always the same. I am not familiar with squirrel turds. Ask Debra Tate.

[quote] Where did he hide? I would have tried to run I think.

I seem to recall he ducked down and stayed low so he couldn't be seen through the windows. I cannot remember if he said the lights were already off or not. I also think he heard or saw the door knob turn as if someone was trying to get in. I guess he had locked them which in and of itself was probably a minor miracle because why would he lock them normally back then? Krenwinkel said she went to the guest house and tried the door. Not sure if that was at the beginning of their "visit" or during the carnage.

I suppose he might have tried to get out and hide outside but not sure there was an area on the other side of the guesthouse where he couldn't be seen. When you think how close down the hill was that twin house (smaller version of the Tate house) you wonder how it went undetected til morning.

"I made perfect sense."

No, you're just a loon with a bug up your ass. Cuckoo, you are.

Stop fingering your prolapse to the Manson murders R451. You're a grotesque.

Who grey lines a thread like this? We’ve been LSA-Markled. How embarrassing for Markle. The neomansons are copying their homework.

R452, you are once again demonstrating your mental impairment. I'd say you're the one doing the "fingering", being demented and all. You're a grotesque little barmy worm. And that bug is still firmly entrenched up your dingle-berried asshole. Sad case you are.

Free Leslie Van Houten!

R443. Good, thoughtful post. I agree. Newsom: release LVH.

R443 sounds like one of the Manson killers. I wonder which one. Squeaky? Sandra Good, maybe? They're both totally insane, and so is that poster. A totally insane piece of shit.

Free Erik Menendez too. How can you possibly sentence an 18 year old to life in prison without parole. You aren't even legally allowed to drink at 18.

[quote]Free Erik Menendez too.

Shut the fuck up. My sex life increased 100 fold since I went to prison. I've worked my way up to top prison bitch!

On the night of the murder the last thing Tex said to Leslie was "Stick a fork in her. She is done."

And get off my back! I didn't even do time!

[quote]Leslie wasn't in on that one. Parent was the first one killed when the Manson maniacs descended on Sharon Tate's house. He was leaving the premises when he encountered Tex and the gang. His last words were "Please don't hurt me! I won't say anything." Then Tex shot him four times and slashed him with a knife. He had been visiting the "caretaker (actually he wasn't much of one)" of the Tate house and trying to get him to buy a clock radio (Parent was selling stuff). I have no idea where any gay rumors about Parent came from. Actually, very little is known about him. He was 18 years old; there probably wasn't much TO know. Maybe the rumors started with William Garrett, the "caretaker." He was a weird duck. Long after the Manson murders he was a supporter of some loony who claimed to be Sharon Tate's child. At any rate, Steven Parent is barely mentioned there's talk of the Manson murders. There's really not a whole lot of say about him.

I don't think Steven Parent's parents or relatives have ever spoken to the media and IIRC, nobody from his family has ever attended parole hearings for Manson family members.

R462, I believe his sister Janet Parent has attended many parole hearings over the years.

R430, There is no such thing. The killers simply were on one mission, and they accomplished it. They weren't on a grounds-scouting trip.

People here are making things up, or mindlessly repeating rumors.

Charlie didn't "re-arrange furniture" in the Tate house because he didn't go there post-murders.

Where is any proof that William Garretson recanted his initial statements to the police and later said "he saw....and hid"?

The fork was stuck into Leno, so the joke fails in several ways.

R463 There's a video on dailymotion of Janet a hearing for Susan Atkins. Has anyone from Abigail Folger's family ever attended hearings?

R466, probably no one from the Folger family. I think I read somewhere that the Folgers are big money and they never wanted their name associated with these sensationalistic hippie murders.

The judge who sentenced Erik Menendez to be locked up for life with no parole deserves to be locked up himself.

Why the hell were Abigail Folger and Voytek Frykowski living with Sharon Tate, anyway? They were "house guests", but why were they there at all? Oh, it's easy to know why Frykowski was there; he was a deadbeat, a moocher, a friend of Roman Polanski's. But why was Folger there? Just to be with her boyfriend? Why didn't she just get a place for the two of them to live if she wanted to be with him? Of course she would have had to pay for it, but she could afford it. Anyway, Sharon was tired of them (they had a lot of lover's quarrels) and wanted them to leave but was too nice to tell them to get out. At any rate, staying in the house to "keep Sharon company" turned out to be the worst decision they ever made.

r469 there are theories that Voytek was a drug dealer and the Cielo house was a hotspot for Hollywood parties in the 60s. Maybe he sold drugs out of that house? It doesn't seem likely that Roman was just being a good friend and letting him live in his home rent free without a job. The house already had a maid and a caretaker.

Abigail wasn't as rich as her last name would imply. The estate she left behind was less than half the size of the middle-class Rosemary LaBianca's. Like most privileged girls of the era, she was supposed to find a nice rich boy and settle down, and the money she got from her family was meant to only keep her until she could accomplish matrimony. Instead, she drifted along in Hollywood, getting high and dating a dealer, but she wasn't happy. According to the book Helter Skelter, she visited her therapist the day she was killed and said she'd finally worked up the courage to leave Voytek and start fresh. Too bad she didn't have that epiphany a week or two before.

Too bad Leslie Van Houten is rotting in jail while the above nutjob keeps jerking off over the corpses from 50 years ago. Leslie Van Houten didn't kill anyone. She was there and she has more than paid the price for it. Set her free.

I thought I read that Roman liked that they were there to keep Sharon company until he returned. That's not the same as a housekeeper who didn't live in and a caretaker living in the guest house.

R469 Voytek and Abigail rented a house together at 2774 Woodstock Road (near Laurel Canyon & Mulholland Drive and across the street from Mama Cass) when they moved to L.A. in August 1968.

In April '69, however, Roman asked Voytek and Abigail to house-sit while he & Sharon were both in Europe. (Roman was prepping [italic]The Day of the Dolphin[/italic] in London; Sharon joined him there after she finished filming [italic]12+1[/italic] in Italy.) Polish artist Witold-K stayed at the Woodstock Road residence while V&A were house-sitting at Cielo Drive.

Eventually, with her due date approaching, Sharon returned to L.A. in July (via the QE2), while Roman stayed behind in England. He was set to return on August 12, in time for the birth, and asked Voytek & Abigail to remain in the house with Sharon until he did.

Sharon had a lot of gangbangs at her house, even while pregnant. They brought on this race war idea, because Roman kept pimping her out and filming it. All drug scene people. Why do you think that so many famous people in Cali were so freaked out by these murders? Because they were all sinners, living extremely hedonistic lives with open door policy to all kinds of lowlife and whores and gangs and drug dealers. Black men were useful for two things back then - to deliver heroin and to fuck your blonde wife. Terrible price that Sharon paid for her husband's kinks. Charlie tried to blame black men.

Leslie Van Houten was a good girl who fell in with the wrong crowd. She killed no one. Set her free.

"Too bad Leslie Van Houten is rotting in jail while the above nutjob keeps jerking off over the corpses from 50 years ago. Leslie Van Houten didn't kill anyone. She was there and she has more than paid the price for it. Set her free."

You're a troll or insane. Or both. At any rate, you're embarrassing yourself. If anybody is "jerking off" to anything it's you. Jerking off to Leslie Van Houten...whew, you're a mental case.

R475 is cray-cray

[quote]Leslie Van Houten was a good girl who fell in with the wrong crowd. She killed no one. Set her free.

Truth. Grant her peace and some justice - Governor Newsom.

This bitch will never get out. No governor wants to be the one who does it -- immediately, permanently cancelled. The parole board should stop recommending her for it, frankly. It's like teasing her, lol.

In around 1990 we were friends with a Fabulous Lebyterian couple who lived in a FABULOUS Los Feliz apartment overlooking LA/ It was right next door to the La Bianca house. We had so many happy times, dinners, there with our LA friends, who have all sadly perspired by now.

If it was gay Stephen Parent whom Van Houten had stuck a knife into, you would all be screaming blue murder at the thought of her getting parole.

Leslie should already have been freed years ago. And would have been if it wasn't for the notarity of this case.

Leslie deserves to be sucking cocks in hell at this point. She should just kill herself and save the world.

What was her daily living situation when she was on parole in the 1970s? Were there any credible threats on her life? It's pretty arguable that the insanity of gun culture is overtaking reason, far more than I've ever seen it.

She's got to keep up with the news. Some kind of security would have to be in place if she was to walk out of prison.

This isn't a statement of opinion about whether or not she should receive parole, it's about her personal security if she does. On another related note, I was acquaintaned with a man who served 17 years for murder. He was out of prison for less than two months. I could see him struggle to orient himself to the present. It was sometimes almost paintful to watch him try to formulate a new concept. And he wasn't by any means mentally slow.

What would it be like for somebody who spent nearly 50 years in prison to reorient to present day American society?

Leslie would be fine. She needs to live in a rural area. At her age she can blend in as any old woman who's led a hard life. Get a haircut and dye her hair. If Karla Homolka can live free with a husband and 3 children without security, so can an old tired woman. FREE LESLIE VAN HOUTEN.

FEED LESLIE TO THE SHARKS!

"What was her daily living situation when she was on parole in the 1970s?"

Who knows. She was probably living with some benefactor in a nice home. And she was having a good time. She went to the Academy Awards. And she went skating with Linda Ronstadt! This is from Ronstadt's memoir "Simple Dreams":

We had a pal named Dan Blackburn, who worked as a news correspondent for NBC. He was a good skater and offered to meet us at the beach and give us some tips. Dan said he would bring a friend he wanted us to meet. He arrived at the designated hour and introduced us to a slender brunette, quiet and pretty, with a refined, well-brought-up manner. Her name was Leslie. We skated for an hour or so, until we were accosted by a tangle of people who were lying on the ground, trying to grab our ankles and begging for water. Some of them were eating dirt. They were obviously wasted on something strong. Someone said it was "angel dust," which was the street name for PCP. The analgesic effect of angel dust can prevent users form realizing they need water, and by the time the drug starts to wear off, they are desperate with thirst.

We managed to slide away and skated to a nearby restaurant for lunch. After we ordered, we began to talk about how we felt sorry and embarrassed for the people we had seen, that they had been shorn of any dignity they may have possessed, and that angel dust looked like a bad drug. Nicky and I had never tried it, and wondered what could be its appeal. Quiet Leslie became animated and said that yes, it was a very bad drug, and could cause one to do things one would never do when sober. She said she knew this, because she herself, had done some bad things under the influence of drugs and had gone to jail. Remembering my own jail experience, I naively asked her what she was arrested for. "Murder," she replied. "Well, who did you murder?" Nicky sputtered. Leslie replied that her full name was Leslie Van Houten and that she had been part of Charles Manson's "family." Nicollete and I were choking on our burgers. She seemed so nice and normal.

We wondered as politely as we could, how she had gotten out of jail and could be lunching and roller skating with us instead of sitting in a cell with the rest of her cohorts. She was out on an appeal because her attorney disappeared during the trial, and so she was found to have had ineffective assistance at trial.

As she saw it, the combination of Charles Manson's influence, plus the drugs he had encouraged her to take, would convince the court that she was not in her right mind, and therefore innocent. Dan and Leslie left us pondering how someone's life could change so irrevocably from normal to grotesquely tragic. As we skated back to where the car was parked, we wondered, could this happen to either of us? Or someone we loved? It definitely reinforced the hearing loss argument against drugs. I remember feeling so disturbed and distracted that I lost track of what my feet were doing and fell hard on the concrete. This, added to my fall down the stairs at the Capitol theatre a few years earlier, caused years of back problems.

Leslie's appeal, no surprise, was ultimately unsuccessful, as she was retried and ultimately found guilty. After close to a year of freedom, she was returned to prison, where she remains to this day

Let her rot in prison for the rest of her miserable life.

[quote]You're an insane piece of white trash R197. You stink up this whole site. But you'll be dead soon.

I remember this old thread, and also remember thinking it wasn't a surprise that ^ THIS ^ guy would be so adamant about LVH being a poor innocent lamb who should have been out of prison 25 years ago.

R16, the only Barbara who is involved in this mess is me and my LSD-laced hamburger!

R489 I remember It as well, and how many nutbaggers I blocked reading through it!

I thought Newsom had 30 days to decide? I guess her parole rec was denied again.

R443 We all wish a Manson murder on you so go away forever. Your ugly insanity alone gives the death penalty moral purpose.

Keeping her in prison is just about vengeance now, she should have been paroled years ago. She is not a danger to society and has more than paid her debt to society after 50 years in prison, let the poor lady live the last days she has left in peace.

[quote] Keeping her in prison is just about vengeance now

In American criminal law, punishment has five recognized purposes: deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitation, *retribution*, and restitution.

She will bring covid from the prison population into our communities.

For this alone, she needs to remain behind bars.

"Let the poor lady live the last days she has left in peace."

"The poor lady?" The only "poor lady" was the lady she "cut up (her words)", Rosemary LaBianca. You are a pathetically dumb fuck or a stupid troll trying to piss off people.

At any rate, due to the severity of her crimes Leslie Van Houten should rot and die in prison.

How exactly has she more than paid her debt to society exactly? 50 years later and it is still an unforgettable crime that gives people the shudders.

What the fuck are you thinking?

Apparently the LVH advocate here mistakes vehemence, repetition, and vulgarity for logical argument.

The fact is that LVH, poor girl, had the great misfortune of participating in a heinous and senseless slaughter complete with writing slogans in the victims' blood, that, as Charlie intended, became nationally infamous.

If only she had been an accessory to a less famous murder! The harmless old lady would have been paroled by now!

Moral of the story: Choose your killings and cohorts carefully, kids!

She’s the kind of person Trump would pardon.

So all is not lost for her fans!

R500 She is too old for Trump to pardon. If she was some young dolly thing who didn't mind Trump grabbing her by the pussy she'd be out of prison in a New York minute.

Some of you are too stupid to realize that Trump can only pardon someone convicted on federal charges.

She was practically just a kid when those murders occurred. She is now an old woman who has served most of her life in prison. It's time to move on, people change.

"She was practically just a kid when those murders occurred."

She was over 18. An adult. It's not "time to move on." Her crimes were irrevocable and her crimes were beyond heinous. She (and the rest of them) should have been executed. But she was given a second chance at life (her victims didn't get that privilege). The only just punishment for her is to die in prison. I don't think she's "changed" much. I've never gotten the feeling she's ever had any real remorse for what she did. She just wants out of prison.

Gee, I wonder how much Sharon Tate's kid has changed. I mean he would be 51 now. He's already middle aged. Bet he looks lot different from when he was a tot.

R503 Why don't you tell us how much he's changed.

I have worked at the California Institute for Women 15 years ago. It by no means is a hellish place. It is on a large campus and women live in different buildings which are like bungalows, except full of cells or bunk beds. Everyone gets out in the day and has a job or school or drug treatment, except for the severely mentally ill (which have their own special housing) and the infirm. Except for Ad Seg, no one is locked in all day.

The clinic I worked at on the grounds had a nice flower garden. I was told some of the Manson women were gardeners. There were many pet cats and dogs too - they had a service dog training program. I recall, LVH played an instrument and was part of a church music group, and worked with the mentally ill.

R504, you have not one clue what the US criminal justice system is about. It is about rehabilitation. The only reason she is still in jail is due to political cowardice. Her crimes are not any more heinous than other murders, in fact, there are many many worse.

Of course, she should be released.

How is it political cowardice? Because the population still wants her in jail? The woman should have received the death penalty. Preferably disembowled after she had conceived and while she had a baby in her stomach wanting more than anything in the world to see her child born. Alas life is not fair and there is no God. Therefore she lived. And may she mercifully die in prison.

There is no greater rehabilitation for her than to remain in prison and minister to the needs of other woman prisoners. If she had truly changed she would have realized that. But she is still the raging psychopath she always was.

Is she the one from the rich family?

If so I remember her father being on Larry King once. I took no responsibility and blamed it all on Manson giving her drugs. Lots of people took drugs in the sixties and didn't butcher people.

My friend once lived in the guest house on the Cielo Drive property, and I believe this gives me, more than anyone else here, the right to say... [italic][bold]LOCK ‘ER UP!

He took no responsibility^^

R506 I fear for the safety of those cats and dogs.

Van Houten should be in a cell with no window and only allowed out in a cement prison yard for one hour per day to exercise for the rest of her miserable life.

The pro-parole posters are beyond convincing, and so, I believe, are we pro-incarceration posters.

The major difference in our relative obstinateness, however, is that the former want to release, based simply on time served, an allegedly repentant participant in hideous mass slaughters; while the latter group views said participant as already inordinately fortunate to have had her original death penalty undone by a general law.

The secondary difference is that the "Free Leslie!" people believe that there is some SOP of American judicial punishment that is somehow not being applied in her situation.

And in one true moment of clarity, they are in a sense right---just not in the way they think.

They think the requests for parole by LVH should be compared to the paroles GRANTED to other felons.

In proven and generally accepted reality, however, requests for parole by LVH are being compared to the DENIALS of parole to other NOTORIOUS felons convicted of participation in high-profile (and often "senseless") slayings.

LVH will be paroled when Sirhan Sirhan is, when David Berkowitz is, when Jeffrey MacDonald is, when Betty Broderick is, and when the Menendez brothers are.

The 12th of Never.

[quote]R514 LVH will be paroled when Sirhan Sirhan is, when David Berkowitz is, when Jeffrey MacDonald is, when Betty Broderick is, and when the Menendez brothers are. The 12th of Never.

Betty’s incarceration is unwarranted... a travesty!

[quote] I thought Newsom had 30 days to decide? I guess her parole rec was denied again.

Parole was recommended on July 23. After that a four month legal review process was begun (so will conclude around thanksgiving). Then Newsom has 30 days to decide. So, roughly Christmas, although I guess he could come to a decision before that.

The Menendez brothers should also be paroled, especially Erik. Sadly, they never will be because the heinous judge sentenced them to live in prison without the possibility of parole.

I would free Betty. Her husband totally gaslighted her and fucked her over. I like the fact that to this day she's glad she did it and has no phony baloney tears of regret.

"Her crimes are not any more heinous than other murders, in fact, there are many many worse."

Yeah, invading the home of someone you don't know and cutting them up and using their blood to write on the walls and having a snack with food from their refrigerator isn't particularly "heinous." You are either a troll or too fucking stupid to live, you pathetic idiot.

Erik Menendez was just 18 at the time of the murders, most likely, the whole thing was Lyle's idea. Erik was even remorseful afterwards and told is lowlife shrink who turned him in. After 30 years, Erik should definitely be eligible for parole!

Leslie is lucky to even be alive now. She should count her blessings.

Of those boys one was a homo and the other was bald. I would say the parents had it coming.

[quote]I’m 34 now but I think back to all the really stupid stuff I did at 19, 20, 21. Granted I never killed anyone, but frankly I could have, considering that on more than one occasion I drove very drunk.

Funniest post on the thread

R411, You are ridiculous.

Look up what American jurisprudence says about being an accessory to murder, even if one does nothing but sit in and drive the get-away car. "Accessories before the fact...[aka, accomplices] face the same liability as principals" (Wikipedia).

Oh, and if you want to play the un-American personalizing of a crime in order to adjudicate, then try this one:

Instead of imagining LVH as "your daughter, wife, or you," try imagining them/yourself as Rosemary LaBianca.

Torture victim. Heard her husband being butchered. Murder victim.

LESLIE VAN HOUTEN HELD ROSEMARY DOWN WHILE PATRICIA KRENWINKEL STABBED HER.

LESLIE VAN HOUTEN CALLED FOR TEX WATSON TO COME FINISH THE SLAYING.

But go on; sympathize with this brutal, sadistic, and vicious person who then gleefully mutilated Rosemary's corpse, STABBING IT 47 TIMES.

Question, r411: How did pretty Leslie KNOW that she was stabbing a dead woman?

Answer: She didn't. One of her stabbings severed Rosemary's spine, "which might have been fatal by itself" (Wikipedia).

R520. Are you even familiar with the killings of Jose and Kitty Menendez? After killing their father Jose, they reloaded their rifles as their mother (who never abused them) who was wounded tried to crawl away behind the sofa. They reloaded and unloaded into her as she tried to hide.

He may have been 18 but deserves life without parole.

BTW, they were finally allowed to reunite and are now at the same prison.

I would imagine almost all the Mason Family were psychopaths, I'm sure Charlie could pick one out of a crowd. This woman is, too. She fakes remorse. I've watched her, I don't believe her. Aren't there people jailed on Biden's crime bill that are lifers for much less?

So who is this disturbed individual who says Leslie has suffered enough? Who probably thinks that he/she is somehow a noble compassionate person and everyone else who wants her to remain in jail is vengeful and spiteful because this person KNOWS Van Houten has changed? It has to be Leslie.

In "Helter Skelter" Vincent Bugliosi makes a good point. He said that Manson asked a lot of people to kill for him. Some of them did, enthusiastically. Some of them didn't. He said that the ones who did had "some inner flaw. Apart from Charlie." I think that' so true. All of the ones who killed for him had it in them to commit murder even before they met Charlie Manson. That's why the defense "I was under his control! He made me do it!" defense is such garbage. ALL of the Manson killers acted of their own free will. They WANTED to commit murder. They're monsters, just like Charlie.

[quote] What does a 70 year old who has spent their entire adult life in prison do for money when they get out?

A rosemary-picking farm has already offered to take Leslie in if she's granted parole.

Where is this farm???? I would love to work there, I j’adore Rosemary.

"What does a 70 year old who has spent their entire adult life in prison do for money when they get out?"

Maybe get a job in a law office? I'm not kidding. She has sympathetic lawyers who I'm sure would give her a position in their law offices. Maybe she'll get a book deal. Susan Atkins did a book; so did Tex Watson. She has friends in high places. John Waters is a good friend of hers. Maybe he'll give her a job working for him; maybe he'll put her in one of his movies.

Back in the day, when he was filming "Cry Baby", John Waters told Johnny Depp about the plight of his dear friend Leslie Van Houten. Depp wanted to visit her in prison! It didn't happen because Depp had some criminal charges against him (for trashing a hotel room or something) , which made him ineligible for a prison visit. Waters figured it was for the best; if he had visited her, think of the publicity! Too bad he couldn't visit her. It probably would have tanked his career, and audiences would not have had to endure future performances of his.

Leslie is great at cutting rosemary.

These murders were more than 50 years ago, ancient history! She has served more than enough time in.prison! There in no justification for not granting her parole.

Do you think Leslie will like cutting up rosemary?

Leslie loves trolling on DL.

"There in no justification for not granting her parole."

Except that her crimes were among the most infamous and ghastly in history.

It's chilling to see photographs and videos of Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins during their trial. They's skipping hand in hand, singing, smiling. There's a photo of Van Houten with Krenwinkel where Krenwinkel is grinning broadly and Van Houten has her head thrown back and her eyes closed, with an ear to ear smile on her face that shows all her big teeth. Pure evil.

Was she the one who was a stripper before joining The Family?

Because that says something.

What there is "no justification for," r533, is your opinion.

I will never get over the fact that the "There is mercy in this world and there too must be forgiveness" guy who loves LVH so much went on to be a nasty homophobe wishing death on others and saying Sharon Tate basically deserved it because she had "gangbangs at the house."

Before she became a member of the Manson family Susan Atkins worked as a stripper or topless dancer or something like that. I think she was also involved in Satanism. ALL of the Manson killers were very fucked up even before they met Charlie. It's not like he got a hold of them when they were innocent lambs and then turned them into bloodthirsty killers.

I hope she's freed and Chrissy Metz eats her.

And it is another no. Rot in pieces Leslie.

Yet more vengeance on this poor woman, sad!

Yet more vengeance on this poor woman, sad!

R544 About what about her victims and their family who have to live with the crimes committed by the vile piece of shit for the rest of their lives.

not if ur the famiily of any of them that those fukkers butchered....rot in hell they should

To all the Leslie loving trolls on this thread: HAHA!

This meeting is adjourned.

Not quite yet. She will appeal the governor’s decision.

Too bad, bitch!

I watched the "Helter Skelter" documentary on EPIX this weekend. I heard audio of LVH, describing what happened the night that the group went out for the La Bianca killings. She had overheard what had taken place the night before (some of the "Family" members were talking about the Tate killings) and she said that it sounded like something that she wanted to do, too....something that she wanted to a part of. Shocking.

Well John Waters will just have to cancel his lavish Welcome Home Leslie! gala fete.

Poor little killer was to stay behind bars. Waaaaa!

She needs psychiatric help, may I suggest Lucy Van Pelt? And she's affordable, too.

[quote] Personally, I feel she should be released. However, could I ask that all those stating that she should commit suicide just stop.

Sure, as soon as she just stops trying to get out of jail.

You can repent, be reborn and turn over a new leaf all you want in jail, if that's truly what she claimed to have done then she shouldn't care about being released. She should recognize society is not happy with what she has done and as a truly believer in healing it would be best for all (not just herself) if she just stayed there until she died. It's the least she could do. Or, kill herself.

I do wonder what Leslie is doing making the victim's families show up each time she tries to get out of prison. I suspect she has no feelings for anyone other than herself. She should just quietly die in prison or find a way to kell herself and save the citizens of Californai a ton of money to support her. Rot in pieces Leslie.

I do wonder what Leslie is doing making the victim's families show up each time she tries to get out of prison. I suspect she has no feelings for anyone other than herself. She should just quietly die in prison or find a way to kell herself and save the citizens of Californai a ton of money to support her. Rot in pieces Leslie.

Once Betty Broderick is released, then we can talk.

But that’s Priority No. 1.

No, actually, OP, she lost her bid for parole. Again.

"She should just quietly die in prison or find a way to kell herself and save the citizens of Californai a ton of money to support her."

R556, she's been in jail for 50 years. It's a little late in the game to save money on Leslie Van Houten.

R559, this is an old thread and OP posted when he thought she was a shoe-in for parole.

If you read the first replies you'll see people corrected him quickly.

Well, no reason to throw good money after bad. We can cross our fingers and hope for heart failure or suicide.

R555 has it. A truly repentant LVH would not keep requesting parole, but would instead, in full recognition of the horrors in which she participated, grotesque horrors which have not dissipated with time nor argument, humbly submit to the sentence imposed.