Italian-Americans

Little Italys are still a thing.

Who is the guy at OP?

Oh dear, here we go again

R2, he's the Tik-Tok Guido from New Jersey (or was it North Carolina?) who gave us Italian cooking lessons shortly before the pandemic ate up our attention.

There are still Polish and Greek neighborhoods in NYC.

Aren't Italians the last European group to immigrate to the US?

The Sopranos tackled this.

Not white.

Urban whites

A very clannish people.

The argument over Italian-American whiteness should be a part of the DL FAQ.

Annoyingly so, R10.

Prone to criminality.

a hunty, they’re all filled with Asian immigrants. Lol. Italian immigrants assimilated a generation ago, per our national pattern. You’re not only obsessive and delusional, you’re stupid.

Does this dude look white?

He's hot, R4.

[quote] How did they end up so different from other white immigrant groups?

How so?

OP, Italians are not white and the Catholic Italians are not Christian, either. Why are they such a clannish subculture? Because their mothers wouldn't have it any other way.

Irish-Americans don't have their own culture?

Guido love.

Mike Piazza referred to himself as white several times in his autobiography. To me, he looks anything but.

r19 Drinking heavily and wearing Green once a year? Everything else is just generic Catholic guilt.

You yanks are an interesting bunch.

R18, Italian Catholics, like Norwegian Catholics, are Christians. And white.

Most people don’t realize that there were interment camps for Italians in the US during WWII.

Italian-Americans are the ghetto whites.

Italian Americans are DL favorite! Yum!

Chris Cuomo sometimes refers to himself as a "white guy" too. If you squint, he and Piazza can pass for mulatto.

[quote] The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd and subculture.

Italian-Americans are the only oldschool euro ethnic group still left in cities like NYC, Boston and Philly.

Italian-Americans seem to be the only white people with emotions. Other white cultures seem sociopathic in how they learn to disguise and suppress their emotions.

Biggest cocks you can get with a mostly white address...

Men's devotion to their mothers keep them living close.

R29: Italian-Americans are a huge part of NYC culture

R28 Chris is a Fredo

R15 NO

[quote] The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd [SIC] and subculture.

What are we, chopped liver?

R15 Yeah.

R15 does not look white.

My ex’s parents barely made it from Sicily to Syracuse before he was born and he’s easily five shades whiter than this German-English hybrid.

What would Vinny do?

[quote] The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd and subculture.

OP obviously doesn't live in NYC. But his cover boy is hot!

Are there still Italian neighborhoods left in NYC?

Staten Island

Yes, R42.

Putative Italian neighborhoods. Remnants of Italian neighborhoods. Neighborhoods with some Italians still hanging on. (Marine Park, Arthur Avenue.)

But actual thriving Italian neighborhoods? Maybe on Staten Island.

Eyetalians are still probably the largest ethnic group in NY.

Gee, R19, I guess making fun of the Irish is still fair game...

Replace what you wrote with some other racial or nationality-based stereotypes and see how that sounds.

So many creeps always come out on these threads. I wonder if a few of them had their lonely hearts broken by Italian Stallions, or had some unrequited love for them pickle their brains.

More tedious housekeeping to get on with here... thanks for exposing yourselves, you of the white-obssessed creep crew. It must make you feel more rare or exotic I suppose to only define White as WASP.

R23 Agreed. I learn the most about their odd ethnic boundaries and hatred from reading the odd remarks they brazenly post to anonymous online forums, otherwise they're quite demure and discreet in their covert hatred. It's very difficult to trust such phoney people, even after living amongst them for decades.

They drink less than the Irish. That's good.

They drink less than the Irish. That's good.

Italian-Americans are NYC.

More white supremacists to stink up the place... just what DL needs, right?

This thread exists because DLers are so old they remember ethnic distinctions from 60 or 70 years ago

If Italians are not white, what are they? Africans?

Are there any other white or white "adjacent" posters sick of all the "Ultra-White" posters on this forum, telling others they're not white? You ought to really speak up, and help put them in their place.

I'm so sick of certain white people lately.

r40 Take big cock like a champ.

R51 tell us more.

LOL R53

No, it exists because some posters are either ignorant or trolls.

1970 eyetalians

[quote] The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd and subculture.

Polish and Jewish neighborhoods still exist.

R61 Right they do...as do Chinese, Russian, Ukranian, Greek, and Korean neighbourhoods. At least in Chicago and NYC.

Once a year, New York's Little Italy has the San Gennaro Feast. Italians moved to suburbs. Chinese moved north of Canal. Today's Little Italy is limited to three or four blocks lined with tourist trap eateries.

Italian-American men of NYC

Brooklyn's Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights were Italian, now lots of Asians.

Is Jacob Elordi Italian Australian? That’s a hot combination.

[quote]Polish and Jewish neighborhoods still exist.

Which are the Polish and Jewish neighborhoods of NY? Please include the boros and the tri-state if you're so inclined.

I love Italian people and their culture, regardless if some old DL fetid cunts think they're not white. FFS.

[quote]If Italians are not white, what are they? Africans?

Just the southerners.

Restaurants and food stores, as with the Chinese. Strong extended family ties. The unity of the scorned and unwanted. Religion.

Now mangia!

This thread is quintessential DL.

[quote] Biggest cocks you can get with a mostly white address...

Huh?

And they are nothing like Italians in Italy. It is a very specific evolution of culture and food.

Italians in Italy think of Italian-Americans as their loud, trashy, embarrassing cousins across the pond.

R74 is pulling shit out of his ass.

No Italian-American cocks in this thread? What gives??

Italian. Erected.

Just had to google, R76.

[quote]Italians in Italy think of Italian-Americans as their loud, trashy, embarrassing cousins across the pond.

Somehow I suspect that most of the Italians who think that are from the northern & central part of the country - something to keep in mind considering that the overwhelming majority of the Italian immigrant who came here came from the south.

Mike Piazza and R15 ARE white.

You stupid cunts seem to think the only white people are the ones that look like Edgar Winter!

Only an Aryan would think that.

Big Pussies

r79 That's frightening looking.

Is this white enough for you mein Führer?

I’d advise you all to tread lightly about this subject.

r83 Looks like a ghoulish creature from a Scandinavian folk tale meant to frighten children.

My heritage is Irish/Italian. My Italian great grandparents came from Genoa and north/central Italy.

There's a big difference between the Baciagaloops, the Boombots, and Cavones in Howard Beach and Bensonhurst and the rest of us.

It has to do with socio-economic background and level of education.

That said, I still drop the last vowels on prosciutto, mozzarella, and mortadella.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? It's 2020 and you're still fighting over who has the right to call themselves white. Who cares.

Racist R30.

EVERYBODY should be fair game, R47. Bunch of butt-hurt people in this world.

Rolls eyes at R79. You tell ‘em, putz.

[quote]Bunch of butt-hurt people in this world.

Don't say butt-hurt; it wounds.

Are Italian-American men less likely to be circumcised?

I like the tough guy persona many Italian American men have. No so much on their ladies. Like mustaches.

When Italians and Irish came to the US, they were not considered white, even by the US Census.

Ultimately, to boost their numbers, whites included them. And they are treated like other whites by society.

There are a shit load of Italians in my neck of the woods (SF and northwards), and except for newer immigrants, most have assimilated. Many are still proud of their heritage and try to keep it alive, but the old days of Italian neighborhoods are gone. North Beach was one, there are still newer immigrants there, but it's not like it used to be. We do have some wonderful restaurants still run by authentic Italians.

Many of my friends claim all or partial Italian heritage. Funny, one friend especially proud got a DNA test and turned out to be only 30%, the greater part is German. I had to laugh. He was crushed but carries on as Italian anyway. The thing is, he looks German. It makes him happy so what do I care. I love Italy, beautiful place.

When Frankie answers an ad looking for a roommate, he thinks GWM stands for "Guy With Money."

Italian men live with their families until they get married. If you are a gay man with your own place in Staten Island you can get fucked hourly by guidos.

Ffs, this again?

OP has GOT to be a bot. This is the second thread on the fucking Italians and their "racial" shit.

Wassamatta you, OP?

r92: all the Italian-Americas men I know have been cut.

Native Italians are all uncut.

Christ, Italians are long assimilated and as for the poster who keeps insisting that "Italians" aren't "white" . . .

How about a nice photo montage of Luciano Pavarottie (RIP), Princess Paola later Queen of Belgium, Marcello Mastroianni, Giorgio Armani, Robert Di Niro, Carla Bruni, Marisa Tomei, Federico Fellini, Giancarlo Giannini, Franco Nero, Luchino Visconte, Roberto Rosselini, Virna Lisi, Monica Vitti, Rossano Brazzi, Carlo Ponti, and Alida Valli?

Yes folks, Italians are white. This silly idea to marginalize ethnic groups that do not look Scandinavian white white, verges on the ridiculous. I find the same here in the southwest U.S. with people with Mexican background. We don't want them to be white, so we categorize them as Latinos, or Hispanic. "God" forbid they should be thought of as white. So as R3 said "Here we go, again". Those of you who want to continue this game of racism and hate by trying to be oh so subtle about it, we can see right through you. You're not fooling anyone.

Yes r30,They seem to be very emotional and they do not shy away from expressing their opinions.

A big factor in Italian culture and neighborhoods continuing to exist is because of Italian food. It's very popular among all people. It draws people together, has created a proliferation of Italian restaurants and thus Italian neighborhoods even if those neighborhoods have diminished since Italians are not immigrating to the U.S. in droves as they did 100 years ago.

R30 - So are the French, who also talk with their hands, are very emotional compared to say, Danes, and aren't afraid of expressing their feelings or opinions.

This thread was supposed to be about neighborhoods and subculture, but it quickly degenerated into a discussion of the continued topic of Italian whiteness or lack thereof. Why is that such a DL obsession? There’s a thread about it or that degenerates into it about once a month.

[quote] A big factor in Italian culture and neighborhoods continuing to exist is because of Italian food. It's very popular among all people. It draws people together,

Y’all’s right. Olive Garden has thee best Eye-Italian food and what all in town and it’s right smack dab by the Walmart. So alls of us family get together there on weekends. Their breadsticks are endless. Aunt May even puts some in her purse as a to go treat.

You can’t tell me that John Turturro doesn’t have some black in him.

r102 She kinda looks like J-Lo's homely cousin.

R105 it is strange. As if whiteness is some sort of huge gift, only available to certain people.

In old "rust belt" cities the Eye-talian neighborhoods were still strong in the 70s and 80s and are still there now. Probably one of the few old European cultures still strong individually within the larger context of those large cities. In Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland you can still see Polish & German communities that are big.

Tuturro looks more Arab/Egyptian/Middle Eastern to me. But regardless, where are people getting these weird ideas that all Italians have a certain "Italian Look" and if they don't they're not white, or not truly Italian, or not European, or what have you?

People look different. It's not always about ethnicity.

[quote]In Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland you can still see Polish & German communities that are big.

Not like back in the day. Today a lot of that is restaurants and businesses, but many residents have dispersed out over time. Both Polish and Germans also have high rates of marrying/reproducing outside their group.

Polish communities are still huge in Chicago--they rule parts of the southwest side.

Nicholas Anthony Iacona Jr.;

[quote] Nicholas Anthony Iacona Jr.;

I loved him in the Chrysler commercials!

I think Chicago also has big communities of people from The Balkans. And aren't there still Russian neighborhoods in places?

[quote]where are people getting these weird ideas that all Italians have a certain "Italian Look"

It's because they've never been to Italy.

Italian Italians do have a certain look but it's about a way of dressing and grooming which is usually to a high standard no matter what social class they are. . They're more often slim, rarely muscular except for legs, and usually have great skin and hair. And they move gracefully. Even if it's a construction worker, they have a strong feminine side. You can spot Italian tourists.

Americans have an idea of Italians from the mass immigration of poor people from the south 100 or so years ago. But that does not represent Italians.

So when Americans go to Italy, they wonder where the "Guido" are.

right, most Italian Americans are from Sicily or southern Italy which are/were far poorer than the north. Another interesting fact: many Italian immigrants went back to Italy after spending some time here.

R51 - you're right and don't you forget it!

Dear Lord in Heaven!!

Guy in the OP is hot.

Is the young gentleman at OP what one might call olive skinned?

R4 Thank you

R4 does he show his ass?

I have no idea, r123. I don't notice asses.

r4

R124 does he show his cock?

[quote]the Catholic Italians are not Christian, either.

Oh, goddamn, R18 - sell that bigoted sectarian 'No True Scotsman' shit someplace else.

i paid for him to do a cameo for dl.

he is hot.

That I would remember, r125, and I don't. So no, I don't think he showed us his Guidong.

he said something like...love...not going there...lol i have no earthly idea how to find it.

Were Little Italy neighborhoods ghettos where Italian immigrants had to live?

....

.....

i'd share but these god damned links do not work!

R132 thank you for that lol.

They were immigrant communities just like anywhere else, R130.

WTF r132? 😂 😂 😂 🤣

helping my brothers out.

Am I the only one reading this thread with Marisa Tomei's voice?

Yes, R138.

Italians invented the official dish of NYC, which is the slice. You fold it in two to eat.

Italians also invented the official dish of Chicago--deep dish pizza.

Italians also invented the official dish of Philadelphia--the famous Philly cheesesteak.

We don’t have eyetalians in North Carolina. Please send some down from Jersey. And Jimmy Garoppolo please come on down.

where do you live? winston salem?

R141 no. It was a polish chef at Uno that created the Deep dish, not an Italian.

You can swim back and forth between Sicily and Africa, and centuries of doing so is evident in the "swarthy" Italian.

They can be charming but too many, waaaaay too many, are stupid Republicans because Democrats gave everything to the moulies. They're infantile attachment to mama and the constant arguing over who has the best [whatever] is as pointless a discussion as you're ever going to hear. The dumb sweet ones can be attractive, but so many take enjoyment from their ignorance. When they first arrived they brought great verve to cities, but after the war ("Who us? In league with the Nazis?") they fled to the suburbs and gave birth to women are proud to be bitches, who take great enjoyment from low level threats to your safety, and revel in cheap jewelry proclaiming that they're Mafia princesses.

They also use their Italian-ness as a Get Out of Jail free card: they won't apologize, or forgive, because "I'm Sicilian," or "I'm from Calbria."

^^Their infantile^^ Dammit.

Noah Centineo’s cock.

Calabria not Calbria

🙄

Nyle DiMarco

Joe Manganiello

Jimmy Garoppolo

My dad is of the east coast variety who grew up in the '50s/60s in NY -- a completely different world!

Brandy Martignago

What about Dr. Anthony Fauci?

I'm shocked there still hasn't been an eyetalian president. The Irish got there with JFK and Reagan. The Cuomos are the tribe's royalty right now.

[quote]You can’t tell me that John Turturro doesn’t have some black in him.

Maybe not at the moment.

158 responses and still the burning questions have not been addressed. Do they sauce the pasta in the pan or not? Do they call it sauce or gravy? How do they drain the pasta? Discuss.

R157: I thought Ronald Reagan was partially Irish and the other half WASP?

How many Italian Americans are purebred now? They’re usually mixed.

R144 Raleigh. I laugh at what people think is good Italian food here. But like many things slowly that will change.

R159. It’s Gravy - just of the red variety. You should mix the pasta with the gravy and a small cup of the pasta water. Don’t cook the pasta to completion as it still cooks when combined with the gravy.

That said there’s nothing wrong with calling it sauce. It’s a synonym.

Gravy. Haha. Gravy.

they are still a distinct subculture because, as anyone of any italian lineage will tell you: everything was made by italians first, and/or it was made by them better than anyone else's. and they continue to seek that out. they will dress down anything as being insufficient unless it has been made by or is from italy, or any italian.

this is why even us mudbloods loudly proclaim our tiny sliver of "i'm italian!"

R147 yet another example of elderly DLer relying on stereotypes from 60 years ago.

I enjoyed Paddy Chayevsky's "Marty" too R147.

The difference is I realize that if Marty was still alive today, he's be close to 90.

R150, too many, waaaaay too many, mistakes in my post. Of course it's Calabria. I thought I caught the only one. Dammit.

Best scene of all time.

[quote] The argument over Italian-American whiteness should be a part of the DL FAQ.

This.

Is Tommy DiDario white?

not with that yellow skin!

[quote] not with that yellow skin!

He has yellow skin?

Given some responses here, I guess Greeks, Spanish and Portuguese men were non-whites as well. The fundamental tenets of democracy were created by non-white people. Modern interpretations of justice were created by non-white people. America was discovered by a non-white person. The man who planned the first circumnavigated ocean trip was a non-white person.

If you feel these people aren't white, you better be prepared to rewrite the history books. You can inform these Mediterranean people they are non-white. I'm sure that will go over well.

"white" no existe', senor. not in the sense that everyone here keeps using it.

it's a social construct, and near-meaningless. nearly any group in Europe you can name was considered "out of the club" for one reason or another, generally for being conquered, or considered too poor, or too backwards for inclusion. generally, because they were being dominated by someone else who wanted their land, labour, resources, etc and had to find justifying reasons for the invaders to "take it".

i think of it as an extension of tribalism. going back to pre-history, we have to support and grow our group vs. the group on the other side of the river, and we want to raise our kids up to do the same. hence "they wear their red hats on the left side of their heads, and we wear our brown hats cocked to the right" being a reason for distrust, disparagement, and mockery on up the chain to outright war. "they CRAZy people!"

Silly Homosexuals

In the mid-1800s, the only "white" people in America were from England, Scotland, Wales and the "Scots-Irish" Protestants

Then Germans and Scandanavians got to be white in the mid-1800s

The Irish weren't really white for a while, probably not till the 1920s or 30s

Italians and Jews came next, probably 70s or 80s--hence the issue many Eldergays have with them, they remember the social norms of 1950s or 60s America and apply that to 2020.

White Latinos (Cubans and South Americans) are likely next in line for whiteness along with Chinese and Indians. Give them another 20 years.

I actually read a book about this once.

Italian-Americans were accepted as white when they started marrying other white ethnic groups, mostly Irish-Americans starting in the 1960s. In the 1970s, Italians led the charged against "forced busing" and they've been totally white since then.

[quote] Italians led the charged against "forced busing"

You sir, are wicked retahded

[quote]Italian-Americans were accepted as white when they started marrying other white ethnic groups, mostly Irish-Americans starting in the 1960s.

This is such bullshit.

R175, (haughty cough)

My grandparents were all from Sicily, coming to the US in the early 1900s. I had my Ancestry DNA done. Had 1% African continent . 80% to 92% Italian/Greek, apparently the can't tell the difference between Italian and Greek.

[quote] pparently the can't tell the difference between Italian and Greek.

Una faccia, una razza.

[quote] Modern DNA research has shown that many people living now in southern Italy share almost identical genetic information with a majority of the people who currently live in metropolitan Greece. And how could that not be true, since wave upon wave of Greek people throughout history has traveled, lived and prospered in the areas of southern Italy, and Sicily in particular.

Southern Italy was settled by Greeks. It was called Magna Grecia, or greater Greece. Naples was originally Neo Polis, or new city.

R175. In what world would Scandinavians, Germans and Irish not be considered white? Even in a very discriminatory world, Northern Europeans are considered white all over the world...and even in America in the mid-1880s.

Irish were not considered white in the 19th century. That was the whole point of some of the earlier posts. They were considered "lower than black people". Mainly because they were Catholic.

[quote]I had my Ancestry DNA done. Had 1% African continent . 80% to 92% Italian/Greek, apparently the can't tell the difference between Italian and Greek.

Every Italian gets the same Italian/Greek/African DNA breakdown when they do those tests. I wonder if they even do the test at all? They probably look at your last name and then send you one of their printed out "Italian" reports.

r149 I thought he was Latinx.

r161 The ones that aren't mixed usually take creepy pride in being 100% pure Italian (this guy Anthony I was fucking for months years ago was like that).

🍕 There are only two kinds of people in this world.

Those who are Italian, and those who wanna be.

Italian-Americans are as Italian as The Olive Garden

[quote] Those who are Italian, and those who wanna be.

I've seen some version of this quote on social media before. And all I can say is that the ones who brag about Italian-ness are the ones who [italic]really[/italic] shouldn't...

Fauci looks like Sophia Petrillo without her wig.

r161 Italian-American is its own separate identity.

They love theses...

[quote] Every Italian gets the same Italian/Greek/African DNA breakdown when they do those tests. I wonder if they even do the test at all? They probably look at your last name and then send you one of their printed out "Italian" reports.

They linked me to relatives that had a different last name than my own. It’s very real. Italians have Greek and African blood. Jews also settled there.

My handsome, tan, naturally muscular Italian American partner just walked down in a Brioni blazer, white Charles Tyrwhitt oxford and Brooks brothers khakis for a relatively unimportant zoom. That's Italian American.

Why the pantaloni, r195?

Vá a Nápoli, r190

R196, what are you? An animal?! ;)

Why not start with how you're defining "white"? Skin shade? Darker features? Overall look? I've known Italian immigrants that have blond hair and blue eyes. Not much different in variation than any other *whites*. I knew people direct from Ireland that had black hair and narrower looking brown eyes, where you may think they are part Asian, but those features are common to the Irish.

Do you agree with this Italian guy who says you're not really Italian unless you or your parents were born in Italy?

Should anybody listen to a Youtube brat?

My best friend 's family came from Bevenuto, a city just outside of Naples. The City was captured by the Normans in 1053, which led to a steady infusion of Northern European coloring: my friend has milky white skin and strawberry blond hair....and a HUGE white thick uncut cock.

^ send nudes

Nothing better than a big thick Italian cock!

[quote]Little Italys are still a thing.

Not in New York City. Little Italy there is just a row of restaurants that all serve the same slop to clueless tourists and call it Italian food. Seriously, there is no difference between restaurants except the names. And Chinatown has taken over parts of Little Italy.

[quote] There are still Polish and Greek neighborhoods in NYC.

In Chicago and other cities too.

I think OP is a little ethnocentric.

[quote] My handsome, tan, naturally muscular Italian American partner just walked down in a Brioni blazer, white Charles Tyrwhitt oxford and Brooks brothers khakis for a relatively unimportant zoom. That's Italian American.

Do you mean because he's obsessed with old-fashioned preppy clothing, or because he's obsessed with brand names?

R207, because he dresses well for a zoom while most fat, sloppy Americans wear pajamas. Because he follows the preppy business casual dress code for white collar workers, but is compelled to show out with a Brioni blazer- there's always a little extra style.

And on a purely punny level, it's a mix of American/English and Italian fashion. Italian-American: Brioni and Brooks Brothers.

To Italian American and Italian DLers-

I've always been fascinated by the scene in "The Godfather II" where it depicts the Festival of San Rocca (or, San Gennaro)? I think we're to believe the location is lower Manhattan or Brooklyn. It's the scene that leads to the where a young Vito Corleone kills Fanucci.

My apology in advance if referring to the GF films offends. I understand that among some Italians those films controversial.

Here's my question- do those festivals still happen at the scale depicted(I know not now with Covid-19) in the GF II?

those films are controversial

[quote]do those festivals still happen at the scale depicted(I know not now with Covid-19) in the GF II?

These days, you can't distinguish NYC's San Gennaro festival from any other street fair. It's a huge disappointment. You have food booth after food booth, but there's nothing special about it that makes it purely Italian.

Thanks, r211. That's too bad.

I forgot to add, r211, that I gather too that those Roman Catholic festivals observed by Italian Americans and Italians probably are somewhat diminished too because the numbers of membership within the Roman Catholic Church are down, too.

Don't get me wrong. When I wrote "that's too bad" I should add that I'm a on-believer, ex Romin' Catholic, but even I have to admit that those old rituals and events that used to be within the Church still hold a fascination for me.

What about that hot man in tight clothing greased pole climbing thing they do? Does that still happen?

Does any have experience with Italians guys who are not close with their mothers? Or estranged from most of his family? Any sons of single parent households and living on their own a good distance away from his parent's house?

[quote]Irish were not considered white in the 19th century. That was the whole point of some of the earlier posts. They were considered "lower than black people". Mainly because they were Catholic.

R184. The Irish may have been considered "lower in status" than blacks because they were Catholic, but that doesn't mean that the Irish weren't considered white. They were still considered white even if they were considered trash on the totem pole.

R215

I'm Italian American; my mother was born in Italy. I don't live anywhere near my family, and you could consider me estranged from most of my relatives. But that could be attributed somewhat to the fact that my mother died a long time ago (and the estrangement somewhat to the fact I am gay.)

So, it happens. But probably for varied reasons. Not because we are all glued to our mothers, though many are.

[quote]The Irish may have been considered "lower in status" than blacks because they were Catholic, but that doesn't mean that the Irish weren't considered white. They were still considered white even if they were considered trash on the totem pole.

Exactly.

This "weren't considered white" business is bullshit.

[quote]Irish were not considered white in the 19th century.

Edgar Allen Poe and Henry James weren't considered white? My, my....you learn something new every day on DL.

[quote]Does any have experience with Italians guys who are not close with their mothers? Or estranged from most of his family? Any sons of single parent households and living on their own a good distance away from his parent's house?

Funny that Americans find the Mediterranean culture of close family ties as a negative.

You should be more concerned about the single mothers and fatherless households that plague some groups.

[quote]My apology in advance if referring to the GF films offends.

Could you please explain to us why mentioning the Academy Award winning, massively successful God Father films should offend?

DL is like a bizarre time warp when it comes to Italian-Americans. Italian Americans in today's world are fully assimilated into American culture. I'm from New England and they're basically indistinguishable from any other white ethnic group. I don't think any of those old Italian clubs like Sons of Italy are even around anymore because successive generations moved into the mainstream culture and weren't really connected to their ethnic roots anymore. It happens.

It's like the 1940s on DL sometimes.

In Italian families, the wife/mother is mostly in charge. They run the family and make most of the decisions. I think that's why you see that most Italian women are progressive and vote Democratic. I've noticed that Italian women are very accepting of gay people. In high school, it were the Italian girls who put a stop to anyone bullying the gay kids.

It's the same dynamic in Greek families. Maybe it's a Mediterranean thing. Are women from Spain the same way?

[quote]You can swim back and forth between Sicily and Africa, and centuries of doing so is evident in the "swarthy" Italian.

DNA analysis has shown that there is actually a very low African admixture in Sicilians. The majority of Sicilians do not have African blood.

r147 is posting from the 1960s.

[quote]Italians and Jews came next, probably 70s or 80s--hence the issue many Eldergays have with them, they remember the social norms of 1950s or 60s America and apply that to 2020.

My paternal grandparents were children of Italian immigrants. My grandfather was born in 1901 and my grandmother in 1902. They grew up in West Hartford, Connecticut. They, their parents, and all their siblings were treated the same as any other white people. I never heard them mention any prejudice, and this was a very white community in the early 20th century.

I had a Italian-American boyfriend for about three years. Nice guy, good cook, a little dumb, but very pleasant, big, beautiful intact cock. He came from a big immediate family but also has a big extended family. It kind of drove me crazy and I'm Greek. There were so many goddamn times when there was a day off including Sunday, holidays, etc., he often had to (or wanted to) spend it with the family. They were in and out the parents house all the time. And with a family that big, it was always someone's birthday, graduation, Mother's Day, first communion, someone had another baby, vacations together. After a while, I just couldn't take it any more. I was like the third wheel when it came to this very close and fairly happy family although they were just as screwed up as everyone else.

r220, I read about an Italian American advocacy group who find the Godfather films offensive. They were mentioned in a NY Times article about 10 years ago.

[quote]I read about an Italian American advocacy group who find the Godfather films offensive. They were mentioned in a NY Times article about 10 years ago.

Well, so much for them.

The truth is, Italian Americans loved Mario Puzo's book, Francis Ford Coppola's film, De Niro and Pacino, Nino Rota's score...

Gee, I wonder why.

[quote]Everything south of Naples is Africa.

I am violently disappointed this is not a thread filled with hot Eyetalian men with hairy puckers and long, dangling cream filled cannolis.

[quote] Edgar Allen Poe and Henry James weren't considered white?

Poe was Anglo-Irish. Henry James was Scot-Irish. White, yes, but not the type of Irish that were discriminated against during that time.

R231 No one said the Irish were not discriminated against.

The comment in question was the following, "The Irish were not considered white in the 19th century.".

That is what we are talking about. And the premise is simply absurd.

Are we doing this thread again? Did someone even write "Places everyone, places!"

In mean, if we're gonna do it right...

Italian-Americans are the best. My sons are the best.

R209 good guessing. A couple of year ago on the island of Lipari in July i saw a festival of Virgin Mary for the good fortune of the sailors, they carry the statue to the harbor and stick banknotes to the robes: recalled me too that scene with Fanucci. Sant'Agata Festival in Catania is a pretty big thing: lasts three days in which they carry on the shoulder the bust of the saint and twelve wood artifacts (Candelori). In my city we don't do anything like that but the fireworks for the patron Saint attract 100000 people every year.

Wow. Thank You for your post, r235.

That all sounds amazing.

Smooches!

Boomerang Smoocherang, r237

[quote]The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd and subculture.

I highly doubt that's true, OP.

[quote] I'm Italian American; my mother was born in Italy.

R217, me too. I do live within driving distance to my parents though. Although I did, at times, live outside the state for awhile.

The Italians that emigrated to United States were from southern Italy and Sicily. They do not speak the same dialect as Italians from Florence or Rome. I am not sure of this, but they may not even be able to understand each other. The official language of Italy is the northern dialect. I did take a college course or two on Italy before I traveled there. Northern Italians look just like Americans. Not a swarthy person to be seen.

[quote]The only European ethnicity still with their own neighborhoodd and subculture.

Ha ha ha!

Not kind towards blacks and Latinos. As a rule. And most of them are also virulently homophobic.

^^^^Robert Deniro’s obsession with black women notwithstanding.

I don't understand this obsession with Italian Americans. The biggest Italian population outside of Italy is actually in Brazil, almost 30 million Brazilians are Italian-Brazilians. All Italian Brazilians can have dual citizenship by law, that's how huge the thing is. Surprisingly, they don't call themselves Italians like Italian Americans do and they actually influenced Brazilian culture way more than they did in the US.

[quote] The official language of Italy is the northern dialect.

Actually, “official” Italian, imposed throughout the Kingdom of Italy by the fascists and then “standardized” by post-WWII state radio and television, is based mainly on Tuscan, so it’s more central Italian than northern. Standard Italian would be very different, especially in terms of pronunciation, if it were based on any of the northern dialects (Veneto, Emilian, Lombardy, Ligurian, Piedmontese...).

I lived in Cobble Hill Brooklyn 1992, . Up a few blocks was Carroll Gardens. A few blocks away were towering projects. There were no crime problems because criminals were dealt with swiftly. Doors remained open, kids played on the street, and it was a good neighborhood. Even as an Irish guy fresh off the boat I was accepted and looked out for.

I wonder how it is there today?

Where does the “Catholics are not Christians” stupidity come from?

[quote]Actually, “official” Italian, imposed throughout the Kingdom of Italy by the fascists and then “standardized” by post-WWII state radio and television, is based mainly on Tuscan, so it’s more central Italian than northern. Standard Italian would be very different, especially in terms of pronunciation, if it were based on any of the northern dialects (Veneto, Emilian, Lombardy, Ligurian, Piedmontese...).

Tuscan was also the language of Dante and Petrarch, so of course, natural that standard Italian on the poetry and literature of early renaissance writers which started and flourished in Tuscany before spreading elsewhere. Those other dialects are harsher and more dull and modern Italian would have had a different cadence if they had gone with them. That said, Tuscan is not as beautifully melodic as some southern dialectics like Neapolitan.

Italian Americans obviously get their cadence and mannerisms from the South.

for you r230, DL's favorite Eyetalian hoe, Hayden Monteleone!

Ed Marinaro -- black-ish?

Just tan. REALLY tan.

My grandmother, who was born in Abruzzi, always said that the Veronese dialect was the most beautiful.

Growing up, friends and classmates who had Italian(born in Italy) grandparents and other relatives(who spoke little or no English) learned Italian early on, merely because they heard it every day. If you wanted to converse with nonna or zi Concetta you HAD to learn Italian, it was that simple. My grandmother would teach my brother and I a few words here and there, but made no concerted effort for us to learn the language. I guess her attitude was we're in America, so we speak English.

The purist Italian is spoken in Siena and Pistoia.

But to my ear the most beautiful sound is Italian spoken by the Neapolitan upper class.

[quote] Where does the “Catholics are not Christians” stupidity come from?

The Southern Christian conservatives in America. They see the whole Pope thing, the drinking wine that turns into blood, a host that turns into flesh and the whole nun and priest thing as a cult. They don’t see it having Biblical ties.

So they're ignorant and bigoted? Do they feel the same about Orthodox christians? Do they think Jesus dressed like a televangelist and rode a Chevrolet to church?

What's the Italian American equivalent of "lace curtain Irish"? Asking for a friend.

America has always had an anti-Catholic/anti-papist streak. They get it from the English.

A couple of memories about Italy and my Italian friend. Well, half Italian American (father was Irish American but we don't talk about that), but to hear him tell it, 100% Italian!

We went to Europe together after college. It was always "I'm Italian this" and "I'm Italian that." Boy does that get old. I get it, your grandma came from Italy. When we got to Rome he stuck out as an American just like me. The real Italians promenaded the streets with their summer clothes, tans, hairdos and vivaciousness while we palefaces skulked along in awe stunned into silence. Big wake-up call for him. Not Italian. American.

A funny thing happened on our way to Italy. We got on a train in Germany. Only the last car was continuing on to Italy, the first few cars were staying in Germany. As we approached the train the German cars were quiet, windows closed, not much action. The train car headed to Italy was different. Windows open, people hanging out, shouting, laughing, general exuberance all around. A pretty good example of the difference between the two cultures.

My father had a business not far from North Beach (Italian neighborhood). He used to talk about the Italian grandma's who went up and down their back stairs scrubbing them with a toothbrush. Not quite true of course, but good for a laugh. A high school friend's parents were Italian. Every night they had pasta, salad, main course, and desert. Grandma lived their, too. Of course the whole family looked like butterballs, except my friend. He looked like the statue of David and was about as smart as a block of marble, too. Of course, his stunning presence made up for that. Never saw grandma clean with a toothbrush, but the place was spotless.

R259. Your story reminds me of watching The Jersey Shore on MTV and those goombahs and their girlfriends. I didn't watch the show much, but I did tune in now and then. Anyway, they were all Italian, Italian, Italian even if some of them weren't. Then the cast plans a trip to Italy, courtesy of MTV. They are all into it and so excited that they going to Italy--because after all, they'e all Italian and they'll fit right in. They're going home to the "home country." Fast forward to the cast actually being in Italy. This big obnoxious bunch of Jersey Shore yahoos (most of them weren't even from the Jersey Shore) became fish out of water. They weren't so Italian any longer. They were no longer on the Jersey Shore; now they were in Italy and they stood out Americans with big sore thumbs. They didn't speak the language, they didn't know the culture; they were unfamiliar with the people, the local customs, where to go and what to see. The were lost, and they were very definitely not Italian any longer. They were American and it showed loud and clear. The show eventually was okay because all they cast really wanted to do was go to a club, drink and get drunk, so their holiday in Italy turned out fun if you like getting drunk and not really mixing beyond your little Jersey group. But they had no clue what they were doing, They soon discovered that they were American. Not Italian.

By the way (similar to your German train story), I was once in Switzerland where everything was orderly and organized, people were reserved and deferential. I crossed over into Italy, and even simply buying something at an ice cream shop was chaotic and loud. Two very different cultures indeed.

Are italian americans really hung like chinese?

When Italian Americans order 'Spaghetti Sauce" in a restaurant they discover how American they are.

[quote] Are italian americans really hung like chinese?

God, no, their dicks will break you in two. Hung and thick as fuck.

I have a relative who’s ethnically Italian. She downplayed her ethnicity and the townspeople made a big deal about her surname when they found out what it was. It’s not really true that Italians in Italy don’t see Italian Americans as one of them.

Italians are fastidious when it comes to cleaning.

R264 like all populations some are tiny as hell and some are very large.

R74, trust me -- Italy has their own problem people with plenty of hang-ups of their own.

I have to say that masses of Italians are pretty amazing.

I often go to a popular and low price beach town on the Adriatic coast in the summer. It's families on vacation. Think Wildwood New Jersey. But instead of a fat slobby horror show as you'd find in the US, the people are elegant and genteel. It's like the US in1962, really a throwback in time.

I hate to be around kids but I stay in a hotel with lots of families....but over there, the kids are so well behaved. Dinner time is something to see. The best manners. No kid's menu and that sort of stuff.

I would never vacation in the US equivalent.

Wealthy Italians in Italy do elegant extremely well.

One of my favorite all time movies is The Great Beauty. I urge you all to watch it. The music is amazing, story line is great, visuals to die for. I've seen it at least five times.

Watch the trailer, it's a tiny bit of heaven.

R270, La Grande Bellezza can be rented for $3.99 on Amazon. Lo guardarò. Grazie.

[quote] like all populations some are tiny as hell and some are very large.

Except Italians are larger than average. All studies show this.

Ecuador leads the list? Perplexing. I shall cancel my travel plans to Cambodia.

Data sources used by worlddata.info to determine penis size, R272? Sketchy at best. But this is DL afterall.

Sometimes they're black, other times they're white...

[quote] Italians are fastidious when it comes to cleaning.

No, not really.

[quote]America has always had an anti-Catholic/anti-papist streak.

Especially in the South. An elderly neighbor when I was growing up was Catholic, and she told us that the Klan once burned a cross in her family's front yard.

From the movie at r270, the best verbal smackdown in cinematic history.

My mother grew up in the Midwest and came to the West Coast in the 1940s as a young bride. She wasn't a bigot, really enjoyed people from other backgrounds, but she had a bias against Catholics for having too many children. Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, and all the others in our multicultural area were just fine. It was just those damn breeding Catholics who wouldn't use birth control. So unseemly! Funny though, her best friend was a Spanish Catholic, but she had the good sense to have only two children. Perhaps she associated rampant breeding with poverty. She grew up poor, knew the hardships, and didn't want to live like that any more.

Your mother sounds dumb R279

(R246) and (R249) are absolutely correct. My Italian professor said the very same thing when she was asked about where the standard dialect came from (Tuscany).

Where was that R277?

80% of the world's Catholics have been using contraception with joyful impunity since the 1960s. Those old Irish and Italian parishes whose pews were filed with families who had a minimum of six kids were gone by the 1970s. The Church is well aware of it and looks the other way. If it were going to excommunicate all Catholics using birth control, it would find itself on a par with, oh, say, the Jains in India (whose tenets, btw, are far more consistent with Christ's teachings than probably every Christian denomination on the planet).

Oh, and most Mexicans are Catholics.

^*filled (not filed)

Catholics (outside of large urban centers like New York City) came in for some bigotry because they were associated with the Irish and the Italians, who were looked down up. Most of you are probably too young to remember the not too subtle mud thrown at JFK when he was running over concerns that his religion would have too much influence on him once in the Oval Office . . .

which, in view of later revelations about JFK's sex lide, ties to the mob, and his own sceptical view of much of the Church, is deeply ironic.

But the fact remains that he was an Irish Catholic which in 1960 awakened some rather nasty serpent's heads.

Papism as a slur was of course driven by the impact of the Protestant Reformation in northern and western Europe.

Catholicism was viewed as a form of superstition as battles over the Virgin birth, transubstantiation, and the Apostolic succession raged.

I remember a scene in the film about Lady Jane Grey with Helena Bonham Carter in which she and Lord Guilford Dudley, her eventual spouse, are arguing about a literal interpretation of the NT, and she quotes Christ saying, "No one comes to the Father but through Me, I am the door . . ."

"Was Our Lord a door?" the ill-starred future Nine Days Queen says bitingly?

Dudley, for what it's worth, was also a Protestant and had received an unusually humanist education.

But the lines give you some idea of the view that arose of Catholicism as some sort of sect not unlike Satanism in certain places after the Reformation.

This carried over into the New World for awhile.

^*sex life (not lide)

The electorate would have done much better worrying about JFK's ties to the mob than to the RC Church.

I thought this crap was grayed out.

Yes, your ancestors were probably Scots-Irish and fair-skinned OP

No, that doesn't save you from being white trash.

This thread is part of Datalounge folklore now.

R288 - No need to trash the Scots and the Irish because one obsessed troll keeps beating this dead horse.

r287 I agree with you 100%. Kennedy had to go out of his way to reassure all and sundry that he would not be taking his marching orders from the Pontiff. Considering what happened in later decades with the undue influence of the religious right, Kennedy's potential lockstep with Rome would've been a fart in a windstorm.

The merest whiff of religious pressure while a Democrat is in the White House was tantamount to theocracy(back then, a bad and unthinkable concept) When a Republican sits in the Oval Office; however, pressure from religionists seems to be viewed quite differently by many.

I’m a gay East Coast Italian American. Ask me anything!

R292 are you cut or no? Do you speak Italian or your elders have teach you some dialect?

The other great part of this thread is that Eldergays still think it's 1962.

Update: a 30 year old Italian-American is probably fourth or fifth generation at this point.

R293, I’m cut, but I have fooled around with a guy whose family was fresh off the boat and he was uncut. Good looking guy who looked a lot like young DeNiro.

I speak some casual Italian, but my side of the family is a lot more Americanized than some of my relatives. All conversations are in Italian there and I’m lost most of the time.

I'm from Connecticut and all of the Italian-Americans around here are indistinguishable from any other white ethnic group. It's been four or even five generations now for most of them, and they're 100% American like everybody else.

DL is like a weird time warp.

See also: the obsession with WASPs and "old money," neither of which really even exist anymore in the way that many DLers think.

Visit Jersey R296, lots of very old school Italians here.

If they are R297, they're children of post-WW2 immigrants (Italy lost the war, there was a much smaller second wave)

But all my 30something Italian-American friends from NJ are as described in R296

[quote] DL is like a weird time warp.

[quote] See also: the obsession with WASPs and "old money," neither of which really even exist anymore in the way that many DLers think.

Thank you R296. I thought I was the only person who realized this..

R299, I can only speak for myself, but I think that some of us here are leftovers from the 1950s as a result of our parents living during that era. For some of us, the 60s were seen by our parents as a degradation from had come before, and they tried to recreate the 50s they knew in their homes. This is not an exclusively American thing. My parents are not American and emigrated here from Europe. Despite (or perhaps because) the 50s being postwar, they looked back on it with nostalgia. Our home and our ways reflected the 1950s albeit perhaps the English and Continental 1950s rather than the American 1950s. I was born in the 70s, and while I don't remember much, it seemed like a gross, dirty era. The 80s seemed bright in comparison, literally and figuratively. I am no fan of Reagan, but the country seemed and looked better in the 80s.

Datalounge wants to revoke Italian-Americans' white status!

[quote]Datalounge wants to revoke Italian-Americans' white status!

You can have it!

Only Americans of a certain age question the whiteness of Italians. You're dating yourselves you prehistoric critters.

R292 - Ignore the cut or uncut query. Here's the important one: is it sauce or gravy?

R304, it’s sauce. “Gravy” is tryhard stuff. Just like, in Italy, calamari is pronounced as it’s written, not that “gallamud” Brooklyn bullshit.

R292 - Thanks! I just assumed, that pronunciation between northern and southern Italy differed the way, e.g., Castilian Spanish and Puerto Rican Spanish does.

But then, although I have been to Brooklyn numerous times, I've never been to Sicily, although I'd like to.

R306 unless they speak in dialect pronunciation don't differ too much but as Italian I can still understand the region of most people from the inflection. For example Calabresi and Sicilians pronounce the c in calamari or Calabria or Crotone very harsh like a real k.

R226, I know who you're talking about. His family just got in the way of all his relationships. I knew an earlier boyfriend of his. Even have a picture of them together. Will tried to hold on to him, but in the end it just didn't work out. Miss him.

Those eye-talians have a wonderful wallpaper though!

Gravy sounds gross

R5 not so much

What's with the Galamad thing?

[quote]So they're ignorant and bigoted? Do they feel the same about Orthodox christians? Do they think Jesus dressed like a televangelist and rode a Chevrolet to church?

Honey, it's all bullshit, but the Catholic Church is probably the craziest and most dangerous sect of them all, at least when it comes to size, not to mention all the shit they've pulled for centuries. It's like one big crime syndicate. Molesting children is just one of their many, many problems.

Italians seem to be half black. You would think blue eyes would have displaced African genes. I guess Italy is hot.

Christian groups in the US preach some horrendous, horrendous shit, but the Catholic Church is like the Scientology of Christianity. It's an entire network. The Vatican is embarrassing. All the gold, the statues, etc, is everything the religion preaches against. It's very intoxicating. The music, the art, and so on, but it's really a dangerous organization that's done centuries of damage.

[quote]Italians seem to be half black.

Like this guy? 🙄

[quote]Italians seem to be half black. You would think blue eyes would have displaced African genes. I guess Italy is hot.

Huh? Blue eyes would have displaced African genes? Then you're asking if Italians are half black?

Italy was invaded a bunch of times. Italians have a mixture of genes from Africa, to Spanish, to Jewish.

[quote]Italians seem to be half black.

Or this lady? 🙄

DL's Italian obsessives are an odd bunch. They apparently believe there is no Italian ethnicity, or native Italian people. They're all a mix of this and that. It's like saying the French are actually a mix of Spanish and German, there is no native French ethnic group. It's truly bizarre.

BTW, DNA testing has shown that admixtures from other groups are not as prevalent among Italians as many believe.

[quote]BTW, DNA testing has shown that admixtures from other groups are not as prevalent among Italians as many believe.

Link....

because I know a bunch of Italian-Americans who took those tests and they turned out to have a mixture of shit when they all believed they were purely Italian.

r318, Madonna is half French-Canadian.

A friend of mine did the Ancestry DNA test and it came back that he was half northern Italian and half southern Italian.

Of course, if DL were in charge of Ancestry it would've come back half German and half "African." You're all such a bunch of tools.

A genetic history of the Italian people.

Some select quotes:

[quote]In their admixture ratios, the Italians are similar to other Southern Europeans, and that is being of Early Neolithic Farmer ancestry, with the Southern Italians being closest to the Greeks (as the historical region of Magna Graecia, "Great Greece", bears witness to)[13] and the Northern Italians being closest to the Spaniards and southern French;[14][10][15][16][17] the genetic gap between the northern and southern Italians is filled by an intermediate Central Italian cluster, creating a continuous cline of variation that mirrors geography.[18] The genetic distance between the Northern and the Southern Italians, although pretty large for a single European nationality, is only roughly equal to the one between the Northern and the Southern Germans.[19] Indeed, Northern and Southern Italians began to diverge as early as the Late Glacial and thus appear to encapsulate at a micro-geographic scale the cline of genetic diversity observable across Europe.[20]

[quote]Barbarian invasions that occurred on Italian soil following the fall of the Western Roman Empire have not significantly altered the gene pool of the Italian people.

[quote]In Sicily, further migrations from the Vandals and Saracens have only slightly affected the ethnic composition of the Sicilian people. However, Greek genetic legacy is estimated at 37% in Sicily.

[quote]A 2013 study by Alessio Boattini et al. found 0 of African L haplogroup in the whole Italy out of 865 samples. The percentages for Berber M1 and U6 haplogroups were 0.46% and 0.35% respectively.

^^in other words, practically none at all.

Can this now be settled and you obsessives can all move the fuck on?

[quote]A friend of mine did the Ancestry DNA test and it came back that he was half northern Italian and half southern Italian.

That's not how Ancestry works, hon. They may tell you which parts of the country your genetics can be found in, but it doesn't come back Northern or Southern Italian. Southern Italians usually get results such as: Iberian peninsula, Arab, East Asian, Greek and/or Caucasus.

r324 Ancestry listed it as "northern Italian" and "southern Italian." For Christ's sake Italian is an actual ethnicity and not a hodgepodge of other things.

It is interesting that, in South America, Italians blend in perfectly, while Germans are the ones who have sometimes set up separate colonies. I reckon that this disparity is due to degrees of similarity between dominant and immigrant groups; Italians mix better with Iberians, and Germans with British.

A 2013 study by Botigué et al. 2013 applied an unsupervised clustering algorithm, ADMIXTURE, to estimate allele-based sharing between Africans and Europeans. Regarding Italians, the North African ancestry does not exceed 2% of their genomes.

The only European group that has significant degree of North African ancestry are Iberians, in particular the Portuguese and western Spaniards.

R318 Gwen stefani looks old in that pic

Contrary to popular belief, the Moors didn't do mass rapes and pillaging across Southern Europe. They mainly kept themselves separate from the native populations. It was somewhat analogous to English settlers in North America not interbreeding on a mass scale with the Indigenous women. Of course it happened, but not to a huge extent.

R330, it’s Moops.

We have nothing against the Italians. They're fine people. It's Jews we draw the line at.

To solve the above question, about the proportion of North African blood that run in the veins of Italians today, I just did some calculations using Global25 to model the ancestry of Italians. I used three modern populations as a reference for the model: one from northern Europe (Germans), another from North Africa (Moroccans) and the last from the Middle East (Palestinians). The Middle Eastern population I decided to include here so as to not take the risk that Middle Eastern ancestry be misinterpreted as North African. One Italian sample is from Bergamo (northern Italy) and a second is from Abruzzo (southern Italy):

The results are:

[bold]Target: Italian_Abruzzo:[/bold]

Distance: 4.5331% / 0.04533105

50.4 German

49.6 Palestinian

[bold]Target: Italian_Bergamo:[/bold]

Distance: 4.7588% / 0.04758850

73.2 German

26.8 Palestinian

As can be seen, northern and southern Italians differ greatly in the amount of North European and Middle Eastern ancestry, but neither region differs in the amount of North African blood, which is practically non-existent on both sides.

To have a comparison from outside the region, this is how the ancestry of the Iberians is interpreted by this same calculator. The Iberian samples are, one from the west (Portugal) and another from the east (Catalunya).

[bold]Target: Spanish_Cataluna[/bold]

Distance: 4.6689% / 0.04668897

82.8 German

10.0 Moroccan

7.2 Palestinian

[bold]Target: Portuguese[bold]

Distance: 4.4222% / 0.04422189

75.0 German

12.6 Palestinian

12.4 Moroccan

As stated earlier, western Iberians have more North African ancestry than those in the east, but eastern Iberians have more such ancestry than I expected.

[quote]For Christ's sake Italian is an actual ethnicity and not a hodgepodge of other things.

Dude, the country was invaded a million times. No Italian is pure Italian. It's impossible.

Dominating mothers and the Catholic church. A bad combination. Never date an Italian.

A typical Ancestry result.

Kelly Ripa's.

No doubt the Greece and Balkins and Middle Eastern DNA comes from her Italian ancestry.

[quote]Dominating mothers and the Catholic church. A bad combination. Never date an Italian.

Millions of Americans of Italian decent come from mixed families.

Uh, Greeks, Russians, Bosnians, Albanians, Romanians (go to Chicago), even Germans (have you never set foot in Frankenmuth?), etc. in the US? Go to the Midwest in particular or parts of NYC and you'll see.

[quote]Dude, the country was invaded a million times. No Italian is pure Italian. It's impossible.

Dude, every country in Europe was invaded a million times. The populations certainly have some admixture, but they're still largely homgenous.

DNA testing has shown that the British, for example are still genetically homogenous to the ancient Brythonian people, who are their ancestors. In spite of the Romans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Normans etc. most Britons still have mostly Brythonian ancestry.

You overestimate the prevalence of foreign DNA being introduced into a native population. It really comes down to simple numbers. Numerically, it's impossible for an invading army to change the ethnic makeup of an entire population. 10,000 soldiers can't do it to a population of 10 million, for example.

DNA doesn't lie.

There's nothing special about Italians. They're mutts like everyone else on the planet. Y'all think you're special?! Most of what you do is do is due to Spanish, French influence.

[quote]Most people don’t realize that there were interment camps for Italians in the US during WWII.

Not only that, they use to deport them to Mexico because the US government was so racist and lazy.

I’ve never met an Italian that didn’t have serious mental/emotional issues - even the ones who were just half Italian.

I love DLers like r342 who are still living decades in the past. News for you: Italians in the 21st century are pretty much indistinguishable from any other white ethnic group.

We are on a gay website. We all have huge emotional issues R342. Italians think they are better than everyone. Even though there's been an African-American president and no Italian-American president yet.

[quote]DL's Italian obsessives are an odd bunch. They apparently believe there is no Italian ethnicity, or native Italian people. They're all a mix of this and that.

They are correct, as numerous DNA tests have shown. I have cousins in Palermo who have lived there for as long as anyone knows, yet none of them has more than 14% Italian/Greek admixture.

[quote]Ancestry listed it as "northern Italian" and "southern Italian."

Odd how only your friend supposedly has these results, but all the rest of us WOPS have nothing of the sort as our Ancestry results.

[quote]For Christ's sake Italian is an actual ethnicity and not a hodgepodge of other things.

Oh, my sides! 🤣

Of course there is an Italian ethnicity. Just like there is a French, German etc. ethnicity. To state that Italians are not "Italian" but a hodgepodge of other things is ridiculous. Look at the link above. And obviously your cousins came from somewhere else originally.

And yes, Ancestry.com does list "Italian" as a separate and distinct ethnic group.

Some of you are unreal.

Ancestry results listing "Italy." Can you shut the fuck up now?

[quote]I’ve never met an Italian that didn’t have serious mental/emotional issues - even the ones who were just half Italian.

Over half the world's population is on psych meds, dear.

Can we get back to talking about big Italian cock?

Italian-American guy getting serviced by a DLer.

Italians think they came up with tomatoes 😝😁😁

I blame Rocky and and those Italian-centric films from the early 70's for the rise of their popularity. By the the time Saturday Night Fever came along you couldn't go walk two feet down the street swinging a salami in each hand without hitting someone with Italian Horn on their necks or wearing a KISS ME I'M ITALIAN t-shirt. And my best friend in high school NEVER anyone forget he was of that ilk. And yes, I had a crush on him.

Those were the lower-class Italians, r353. The other Italians blended in and were pretty much indistinguishable from other white people.

I ❤️ Italians. Some of my closest oldest friends actually. The men are handsome, love their mothers, and many are great cooks. Even the straightest of them, I've found are very affectionate, and have no reserve hugging or kissing me. After moving to the States, some of the best hospitality has been shown to me by Italian-Americans. 🇮🇹🇺🇸

I've been so hungry for some good lasagna lately. I usually buy it already prepared at the gourmet grocer, because it's an ordeal to make.

the men are HOT to TROT

Whole Foods has great lasagna.

Hi Horshack @ r357!!

The men lose their looks and get fat after 30.

r360 This is so true! I was fucking this hot Italian guy for around 6 months when I was 24 in 2001. He was the same age, and absolutely gorgeous. He's now bald, fat, and old-looking. Meanwhile I look 10-15 years younger (10 when I'm tired, hung-over, sick, etc, 15 when I'm sufficiently rested, clearheaded, and well groomed).