Gypsies

Yes, with tramps and thieves.

What is the deal with gypsies? Are they persons of color?

No, they just beg on the street corner while staring blankly at their expensive smart phones.

R2 Their origin is from Pakistan and Northern India so yes.

They are too busy picking the pockets of people in Paris to travel.

Still have a major presence in eastern European countries -- especially Romania and Hungary. Also in big cities like Rome and Paris. Lots of stigma against them.

When Europeans talk about our racial problems in the U.S., don't forget that they have theirs -- the Romani.

[quote]Lots of stigma against them.

Wholly deserved!

In major European capitals they swarm tourist sites like a plague of locusts. Some of the girls will pretend to be deaf and blind and shove a “petition” in your face while someone else is robbing you blind. They apply similar tactics on the subways. Some even go as far as holding a fake baby and pretending to drop it so you’ll be distracted while they steal your wallet or purse. They are worse than the African guys who harass you. The police can’t do anything to them since most of them are just kids. It really can ruin your trip, especially in Paris. The government really needs to step it up and figure out a way to get rid of them.

R4 I read that India informally recognized them as children of India and part of the Indian diaspora. The Romani language has a lot of Hindi words in it. I wonder how much Indian DNA an average gypsy possesses, though they are very mixed with Europeans.

Our tour guide in Greece went into such a long rant about Gypsies. With just a few word changes it could have been a monologue from some cornpone!

last year when I visited spain they were a bunch of rumanian gypsies living in what they call chabolas, which are huts made of boards that don't even have electric power. I wonder why the hell those rumanian gypsies like spain so much.

r5 Racial problems in America just seem so much simpler! Let's solve that first.

[quote]I wonder why the hell those rumanian gypsies like spain so much.

Language is easy to learn and there are richer European tourists to cheat and fleece.

Gypsy is considered a slur. The term is Roma.

Gypsy is considered a slur. The term is Roma.

Wow, Yul Brunner is a Romani! (was looking up known Romani because I couldn't think of any)

She is dancing away from you now

She was just a wish

She was just a wish

And her memory is all that is left for you now

R14, I believe using the term gypsy for Roma is like using Indian for Native American -- fallen out of favor, although still widely used by some within the communities themselves.

R15 Not all Roma people live like gypsies, though. A distinction seems necessary.

I read an interesting book called "Bury Me Standing" about the Roma people. After reading it, you feel sympathy for how reviled they are in most places. However, their own customs seem to work against them. They are anti-education and have backward attitudes toward women, etc.

Tramps and Thieves!

R16 No, he admitted that he lied about that to seem exotic. He had Swiss-German, Russian and Buryat (Mongol) ancestry.

[quote]His father, Boris Yuliyevich Briner, was a mining engineer and inventor, of Swiss-German and Russian descent. The actor's grandfather, Jules Briner, was a Swiss citizen who moved to Vladivostok in the 1870s and established a successful import/export company.[11] Brynner's paternal grandmother, Natalya Yosifovna Kurkutova, was a native of Irkutsk and a Eurasian of part Buryat ancestry. Brynner's mother, Marousia Dimitrievna (née Blagovidova), hailed from the Russian intelligentsia and studied to be an actress and singer. Brynner felt a strong personal connection to the Romani people; in 1977, Brynner was named honorary president of the International Romani Union, a title that he kept until his death.

the carried the banned gnostic texts through the tarot cards.

GYPsy = eGYPt

R24

[quote]Roma (Gypsies) originated in the Punjab region of northern India as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt.

Has anyone hooked up with a gypsy guy?

R26, asking the real questions.

Great Yugoslav film: I Even Met Happy Gypsies (1967)

Thanks r28!

Yul Brynner was fucking hot

They're a major scapegoat in Naples, Italy. Or at least they were when I was a kid -- statements to the effect of 'they'll steal your underwear if you're not looking.'

R18, just like Eskimo is no longer an acceptable term, and yet many people still use it.

For reasons which do not always seem clear, many of Roma heritage do in fact identity as Gypsy, yet do not mind Roma, whilst others, such as the Scinti, object to both terms, Roma, and Romani, and insist on being termed as such.

I've known Roma and Scinti who both refer to themselves as Gypsies. I think it's respectful to be sensitive to what they call themselves. Despite the crime, and overall generally negative impression, they are a fascinating people with an interesting history.

R26 I was posted to Bucharest, Romania a few years ago and yes! I hooked-up with a few Roma guys. They were great fun...beautiful skin and eyes. All claimed to be tops but I ended up fucking them all. I have to admit that because of my own prejudices, and the reputations they have, I took them to hotels rather than my residence, and had no valuables with me.

And R11, its ROmania, not RUmania. You’re stuck in the 1940s.

Are Travelers the same thing?

R34 Sounds hot. Many have very handsome eyes and faces. That's certainly more typical than the Travellers" appearance.

“ ‘Gypsy’ is a slur.”

I’ve been hearing this for a few years. I don’t think it’s equal to “n—-er” or “Polack” or “wetback”. It’s more like “Oriental” or “Burmese”; old-fashioned words, but not an insult.

And no matter what you call them, they’re a problem.

Are they cut or uncut?

Beware of any roof or driveway repair offers from a company called Rose Louise and Her Hollywood Blondes.

"KIng of the Gypsies" by Peter Maas is a good book.

Eric Roberts starred in the move,

R36 No, ethnically or genetically they are not. They do however often share a similar caravan lifestyle, love of crime, and certain occupations: metal smithing, tinkering, horse breeding, roofing, and dealing in second hand goods.

Many Gypsy or Romani words have made it into the Travellers' vernacular over time from close proximity.

Bill Paxton' s film "Traveller" is really good. It's about Travellers in the US.

Is Stevie Nicks a gypsy?

'Cause I always keep all doors bolted on each of my properties' houses, damned unannounced visiting relatives!

R44 You're funny!

These guys are Hungarian gypsies supposedly

And hungry, R47, for hot, white milk!

My great uncle met à small group of gypsies at the polish meat store. He was in his 80s and lived alone, probably bit senile. They moved right in. My mom had to call the cops to get them out. There was a live turkey running around the back yard and a bunch of stolen krap in the basement.

R49, was that in Poland?

The Gypse Robe was recently changed to the Legacy Robe and I think the Gypsy of the Year show has changed its name.

I met a very fine and sexy mixed Roma and French Canadian bloke in Toronto years ago. I almost invited him back to my hotel, but was drunk and decided to sleep it off instead. Just last year I've noticed vids of him camming and wanking, though he tells his audience he's "straight".

Admittedly, sometimes I still think of him when I wank. The videos satisfied much of my curiosities. Huge, uncut brown cock, heavy balls, and a rather hairy chest for a gypsy.

The late Frank Buis (Royal Press Amsterdam) worked with the plainclothes anti-crime unit in Amsterdam for many years mainly documenting Romanian and Bulgarian pickpockets (zakkenrollers)

Since his death Jaime van Gastel has taken up the task as the prime zakkenroller-jager (pickpocket hunter) in conjunction with the Amsterdam police.

Here's an older link to one of Buis's in your face confrontation with Gypsy pickpockets- trained from a very young age.

Gypsy woman are incredible house keepers, no matter how humble their living situation, you will find it spotless.

Gypsy Woman (She's Homeless)

Old Irish people have negative stories about Travellers but I've never met any myself.

They were the second-largest group victimized by Nazis, and antiziganism runs centuries-deep in Europe. If things are improving for them, I think it's really only because there are other groups taking their place..

,,,,

Gypsies (Roma, Gitanes, Gitanos Tsiganes, etc. etc. etc.) are a plague all over Western Europe, especially in summer in well-travelled tourist areas. The police turn a blind eye to their pickpocketing, begging and thieving, as long as they victimize tourists. There are frequent clashes in major cities with Africans, who Gypsies feel are invading and taking over their scams and territory.

No. They've found a home.

Are they circumcision friendly?

[quote]And no matter what you call them, they’re a problem.

How very racist of you R38. That's like a white supremacist saying black are a problem, no matter what you call them.

Check your privilege, troll.

R60, poor Tiffany in that photo of horrors.

[quote]Check your privilege, troll.

R62 displays both complete ignorant and self-righteousness in abundance.

^^^ignorance^^^

R50 Chicago

R62, you have no idea. This is a group of people whose own defined culture is to lie, cheat and steal from outsiders. Go hang out for a night in front on Gare du Nord or the Ramblas and you won’t have any possessions left.

She's no longer a Gypsy!

Oops--this was the image I wanted to show.

R64 has been triggered after being called out for its racist bullshit.

I think this family is Gypsies?

They were featured on an episode of American Greed. Their shoplifting skills were rather remarkable.

SEVEN MILLION, r71?

Are some of the "Toys" actually Bugattis?

I remembered correctly:

[quote]The Bogdanov family's roots go back to Eastern Europe, although neither Branko or Lela is a citizen of any particular country. Once they complete their sentences, they likely won't be deported because they do not have a home country to send them back to, prosecutors have said.

[quote]Lela, who has been treated for cancer and heart disease since her arrest, listened to the proceedings through a Romani interpreter.

"No nationality"? So they somehow went to America without a passport, stayed, and never applied for citizenship? Odd.

I reckon that they destroyed their passports after arriving so they could never be deported. Common trick.

Yul Brynner's wiki page is not accurate. Even his ex wife Doris says in a documentary that nobody believed his BS about being Swiss. She said he fabricated most of his early history.

This song has been stuck in my head since I stumbled upon this thread last night.

But I can't complain; it's a good song.

This thread has a lot of interesting stories (mainly from Europeans)

They made me change my name, Momma!

Yes, they do alot of begging in Europe. When I went, it was easy to ignore them although they would parade around dirty kids to invoke sympathy

Because they are poor and grifters, they are treated like shit in Europe.

There's an interesting documentary Latcho Drom, which traces dance from India to intermediate countries to Spain and how it gypsies took the dances of India and influenced folk dance throughout Europe.

Legend has it that gypsies originated in an Indian court and were conquered centuries ago and followed their European conquerors to Europe

[quote]There's an interesting documentary Latcho Drom, which traces dance from India to intermediate countries to Spain and how it gypsies took the dances of India and influenced folk dance throughout Europe.

This is one of my favorite soundtracks.

Present hole and they'll fill it. They have no shame and like to have fun. Love me some good Gypsy cock. Don't tell their wives and they're fine with it.

Always wondered if they were somehow related to thugees. Could both descend from an ancient caste of thieves?

I enjoyed 'The Riches' which was about American Travelers.

I've had a few interactions with them over the years. Way back in the 1970s they had a habit of coming into some of my local suburban Maryland grocery stores and then some of the women would stand in the front and throw their skirts over their heads and stand there with their minge showing, and while everyone was standing there stunned, their compatriots would run around grabbing food and then running out the store

Then back in the 1980 I had joined a fundie Assembly of God church for a short time, and apparently one of the young male leaders of a group of gypsies was watching Pat Robertson's '700 Club' TV show and experienced a 'religious experience'. He called the number on the screen, and they directed him to my local suburban Maryland Assembly of God church, which they attended for awhile. The congregation was very uncomfortable with them, running around raucously during the service (which was already a circus-like atmosphere with the old white ladies spontaneously bursting into speaking in tongues at the slightest pretext) All in all, it was a wild ride. I only lasted at that church for about a month, since I realized I didn't subscribe to their beliefs, so I don't know how long the gypsies kept attending.

I know two Roma, both identify as racially ambiguous sorta people of color (depends on the day.)

R84 Most histories definitely state they are from the Untouchables caste in India. (at least the first wave which emigrated) There are still Gypsies in India of this caste.

I wonder if, next time there is a revival of "Gypsy," they will be forced to change the name of the show.

The Gypsy Robe tradition for Broadway shows has already been forced to change its name. It's now the Legacy Robe.

R82 Gypsy music is lovely.

My favorite gypsy.

So are Gypsy men, r90. And they play around, As long as they can be the top.

They can be good bottoms too, r 92, if you know how too handle them. Tell them they're the top and then fuck the shit out of them. They love it.

r91 led me to this

Have always loved this - and I think Alma Sinti is a gypsy

^^^ meant to include this

Gypsy men are fabulous. They are like Marines: They have been trained to be butch but also trained to obey. They can be so much fun if you know how to treat them.

R95 With that surname, I would hazard to guess yes... Sinti are a Gypsy tribe that came to Germany in the Middle Ages. They speak a seperate dialect known as Sinti-Manouche. I have a friend from Germany with partial Sinti ancestry.

Thank you r98!

Cheers R99

Gitano, and Gitans, los Gitanos are all Spanish terms for the Iberian Cale.

[quote]Way back in the 1970s they had a habit of coming into some of my local suburban Maryland grocery stores and then some of the women would stand in the front and throw their skirts over their heads and stand there with their minge showing, and while everyone was standing there stunned, their compatriots would run around grabbing food and then running out the store.

Shades of John Waters! LOL

R67 is right. The prejudice is not unfounded when their culture is basically anti-social. Lying is perfectly normal and expected to non-Roma (that's why they never tell non-Roma their real names), stealing is also their main source of income.

Look, you can't go around camping on others property, stealing their shit, lying, being aggressive and then claim discrimination.

Settle down and get a fucking job. Their 'culture' has a lot of criminality involved that they justify. They don't want to integrate and they don't want to be respectful. So you get what you get.

R103 Yes, to be truthful. However settled Gypsies can be quite "normal", and I think they should be given a chance to be judged as individuals. Many are now two or three generations away from that lifestyle, and have assimilated.

R67 Tell me more about them not giving their real names. Do they steal identities or use names that sound native to where they live? What is a typical gypsy name? I’m truly fascinated.

The show My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding was (is?) a fascinating train wreck. You can't look away. Yes, it is a VERY misogynistic culture. The girls dress extremely provocatively but are absolutely forbidden premarital sex of any kind. Their sole goal in life is to marry and move into an RV with their husbands. They are not allowed to work outside the home, but must spend every single day cleaning the RV from top to bottom. Their fathers will drop 40-50,000 CASH on the wedding, it's a status symbol to them. Same with the completely over the top wedding dresses. (Celine Dion would be envious of these monstrous gowns.)

Here is a typical gown (this one is actually a bit on the conservative side). Behind her is her RV home.

One more clip, I can't resist. Apparently this one is an arranged marriage and she has never met her husband to be, PeeWee.

When I was an American student on exchange in London one of the American girls in the program became starry-eyed over some Roma guy she'd met (God knows where) who wanted to take her away to live in his "gypsy caravan". Thirty years on I wonder if she regrets not going.

R108 Stop resisting, I'm loving the clips. I haven't caught it this season, but watched this show somewhat regularly last year, and the previous year. It never did disappoint.

Lol R110 twist my arm why don't ya? Check out the blue and white dress in this clip. Also the really scary cross-eyed and toothless grandma. Looks like they don't put much stock in dentistry.

dammit it went to a different clip^^.

This dressmaker (despite the designs) really is a genius.

R11 Wow, all that real gold, and actual $100 bills... Did that bride win the lottery, or has her husband to be been working overtime running blacktop schemes?

R113 Yes indeed, though many are ugly, it's amazing how she pulls off these mad ideas. I recall the live flower dress was the most bonkers... frought with many pitfalls.

R107 The gowns look like cotton candy! Thank you for the pics.

R111 That 24K dress -- It looked like she couldn't walk in it!

I don't know if there are any Project Runway fans here, but designer Michael Costello is Roma.

Where do they get the money for these fancy weddings?

Kimberly Gilfoile smell like gypsy and look like one too. I keep my Baron away from such nasty lady.

R116 Most the brides have mobility issues. That's why they often need to seek unorthodox methods of transport. Would make muchmore sense for them to change at the venue, but then they'd lose all the circus aspect of getting there I suppose.

Interesting R117. He definitely looks more Indian. The Romanichals on Gypsy Weddings almost all appear very European, yet they're still very much preoccupied with Gypsy bloodlines.

R118 Indeed...?

R118 I've often suspected TLC pays for some of it, or at least the Sondra Celli gowns.

It's a shame they don't get some serious gypsy musicians in on the show. I seriously enjoy the music... Even Gypsy Kings, though they may not be so popular anymore.

They do travel and they have a lot of rights. In Switzerland the small towns have to scramble to make a deal with someone to let them set up in a field - nobody wants to because they always create a toxic waste dump within days. Now due to COVID there are many new restrictions. For example it's forbidden to beg in cities because of COVID and the borders are not open like they usually are.

This memoir by a gay gypsy is very good.

R126 Thanks, I'm definitely going to read that.

They used a ruse to trick my grandma into letting them into her home, and then stole all her jewelry. Fuck them.

Oh yeah very aggressive. High percentage of home burglars are Roma. About 5 years ago there were really liberal policies and they were running all over Swiss cities causing havoc. 2x at dusk in Geneva a gang of Gypsy kids tried to get me to fall to the sidewalk. They follow kicking your feet and they even climb up on you and a dozen little hands are searching all over for anything valuable. Then, it seemed to calm down because people had had enough of the "civil rights" of it all.

R129, that sounds like a scene straight out of Hostel.

R128 They used a similar ruse to get into an elderly neighbour's home. He would sit for a spell each day on his front steps, and one had asked to use the loo, and another asked for a glass of water, after the old gent turned down their solicitation of work.

I still think we must draw a line between settled Gypsies earning an honest living, musicians, etc. and those working the typical grifting schemes.

R128 They used a similar ruse to get into an elderly neighbour's home. He would sit for a spell each day on his front steps, and one had asked to use the loo, and another asked for a glass of water, after the old gent turned down their solicitation of work.

I still think we must draw a line between settled Gypsies earning an honest living, musicians, etc. and those working the typical grifting schemes.

Everyone just had enough of the bullshit. Social workers and teachers. Health workers. Welfare workers. I feel sorry for kids born into that culture. Kids are innocent and that culture is SHITTY SHITTY about given their kids any chance in life. All over Europe there were fortunes invested by western countries to try to get them in school, in activities, in a dentist's chair for chrissakes. Its never lasts. People invest and invest and just get screwed, including the kids. The parents are abusing the kids. And I don't mean sexually. They are just used.

My half-Sinti friend I had mentioned upthread has a University degree, and works a very straight business job for a French liquor and wine conglomerate. Her boyfriend is a Wall Streeter (fair argument, a legitimate type of grift) yet they're perfectly normal decent and honest people. I don't think she tells many people about her ancestry TBH.

Well she is far from the motherland the roving culture of gypsies, then. The question is about European gypsies and if the stereotypical lifestyle.

R135 She is European, half-German, speaks German, French, and English. She's lived here in the States nine or ten years. I'm sure she may be a minority, but I've read about others.

I have a sneaking suspicion there are many amongst us, yet they don't dare admit they're part Roma or Gypsy. It probably helps my friend is a blonde, and appears more German.

[quote] And [R11], its ROmania, not RUmania

Romanians are very touchy/adamant about not being confused with Roma. I think because people extrapolate the ROMANI from their name and assume they are 'gypsies.' The Roma situation is quite possibly the most dire there.

R137 To be sure there is that predicament, especially with so many daft Americans. I've lived in the States twenty years now, and the gaps in education never cease to amaze me.

I even met a friend, and former volunteer at a charity gig who thought "Roma" were from Italy originally, or part Italian. That may speak to the bigoted Anti-Italian stream of consciousness one reads of here on DL.

[quote] Eskimo is no longer an acceptable term, and yet many people still use it.

r32, Many people still use the unacceptable term "colored people." Doe this make it right? It doesn't cost them anything more to say "Inuit" instead of "Eskimo"; "Native American" instead of "Indian"; "Romani" instead of "gypsy"; Black instead of Negro; etc.

In 1964, Cassius Clay publicly rejected what he termed his "slave name" and proclaimed he would henceforth answer only to Muhammad Ali, yet newspapers continued to refer to him as Cassius Clay for six more years. What is it in the American psyche that makes us so loath to call people what they wish to be called? How, actually, does this even concern us?

r139 Not all Eskimos are Inuit apparently and some want to call themselves Eskimos. Definitely not all Gypsies are Roma and Sintis will not be happy if you call them Roma as already mentioned in this thread. Stop making everything a black and white issue just to feel extra rithgeous. Nuances exist.

Video on some of the hardships facing Roma in Romania. This was from a years ago though.

this thread is useless without me

[quote] Nuances exist.

So does entirely missing the point, r140.

r143 Yes, and r139 is a very good example of that,

Iowa Johnny if I could give you unlimited W/W for R139'I would in a heartbeat. I don't think you've missed any subtle nuances at all, but rather grasped the greater teaching to respect others, and that certainly includes referring to any group as they wish to be called.

I also thank you on behalf my half-Sinti friend, who rightfully so, as a member of that tribe, with a different German-influenced dialect, objects to being labelled "Roma".

The men throw a mean fuck, that I can say.

r145, Thank you.

R147 You deserve it; you're sincerely welcome. I think I may have sparred with you briefly on another thread, but I truly think you're a shining beacon of light in a very dark world.

What about Crystal Waters and Gypsy Woman (She's Homeless)?

Are they the source of the term getting gypped?

BAJOUR!

We have come so far as a country in US now that we have Gypsies living in the White House!

R96, R94, and R91 I wish to thank you for sharing the music with us.

A people who can create such beautiful music cannot all be inherently bad, so my ears and my soul tell me.

And I thank R139 for the warm amber ambient light that is going round these posts.

Shalom

r148, Your very kind words mean a great deal to me. And kind words go a very long way in shining a bright light into the darkness.

R154 Cheers my friend. I have only recently noticed your salutation, or closure recently, so if you are a new poster, I welcome your future replies. Thank you for your kind words, and your nice contributions here. You may very well improve the place, if we are so lucky!

R155, Aleichem shalom. If we all let our lights shine, we can drive the trolls from our midst with kindness alone. And wouldn't that just be more fun than a pick nick? Cheers to you also, friend.

Get a room!

R156 Yes, and we can still have wit and wisdom, snark, and good humour without racial or other stereotypes, or dehumanising entire groups of our fellow man. You almost bring a tear to my eyes. (I fight it, but with the music, it is hard to resist)

This is exactly why I still light my candles, and kindle hope in my heart for the world. As regards so many other recent threads, wherein posters ask "what's wrong with this country", or "what's wrong with the world", here we have it: people who cannot appreciate the person as an individual before us. And we are sadly incapable of hearing the music they play.

I hope you post more remarks here.

The Roma have their own food traditions.

R157 You're funny and valuable as well, but this really isn't about any of that. There is a serious lack of humanity on this site; all good and stimulating jokes aside, but sometimes we must admit some things are not funny, like hatred, prejudice, sweeping generalisations, and intolerance.

Imthink we all dwell,in a different world now, with the COVID, economic strife, and the resulting perils. We all ought to be a bit more circumspect and conscious about what we post about our fellow man.

We're either going to come together in empathy, and respect, or we're going to go out failing each other and becoming ugly. It's an easy choice I should think.

R32 for some reason "Inuit Pie" doesn't have the same appeal

I like Roma brand frozen pizza does that count?

There is a "gypsy cart" in the collection of a museum on Long Island that I fell in love with as a kid. It was so magical looking and the inside was just as amazing. It made me wish I could hook up a horse and rise it around the country. It sounded like a idyllic way of life and I couldn't imagine why anyone would not want to be a gypsy.

I also preferred the canary-colored cart of Mr. Toad to his later obnoxious motor-car.

R162, and R161 you are BOTH OK, well, and good. We still need comic relief after all. I'm always a sucker for vintage graphics and adverts.

It really all comes down to intent. I'm far from perfect, and acknowledge a strict PC approach doesn't solve every problem. Just be kind, and know your audience. I dare say some gypsies may be reading this thread, yet they are reticent to say something.

Judge favourably please. Dan L'Chauff Zecut, or Zechus.

Shalom

R162, and R161 you are BOTH OK, well, and good. We still need comic relief after all. I'm always a sucker for vintage graphics and adverts.

It really all comes down to intent. I'm far from perfect, and acknowledge a strict PC approach doesn't solve every problem. Just be kind, and know your audience. I dare say some gypsies may be reading this thread, yet they are reticent to say something.

Judge favourably please. Dan L'Chauff Zecut, or Zechus.

Shalom

R163, you are awesome in my estimation. Stay Awesome. It is that uncomplicated child we all ought to aspire to be... awe, wonder, and our dreams are oft the best parts of us.

r158, I couldn't agree with you more. I enjoy DL for many reasons: I know that I'm practically guaranteed a good laugh (or several) because I often find the wit to be of the highest caliber, and the snark, when it's not of the sophomoric variety, can be almost as funny. But I think for me, the vast array of more serious threads which generate such intelligent posts are the best part of DL. I nearly always learn something, often about subjects I wasn't really aware I was interested in. I've said this before in another thread, that I wasn't prepared for so much bigotry and raw hatred, but it didn't long to simply ignore them, and in the worst instances, to block them. Having known for a long while that diamonds polish diamonds, I especially enjoy engaging with other posters such as yourself and several others.

They're shifty Indians. No surprises there.

R167 Iowa Johnny, you're the best. You leave me speechless, though I made so many other posts... Lately, R164-R 166... Please keep bringing the light.

The Romani are probably the least effective criminals ever. Good thieves don't lift wallets, they run investment banks--or governments.

r169 Dan L'Chauff Zecut, You really are too kind. Bless you.

(I should have mentioned in an earlier response to you that I thought your response to r161 & r162 was perfect: "....Just be kind.")

Travelers are Irish. There was a case in Houston years ago about child abuse. The mother caught beating the kid was a traveler and the attornies basically got her off due to cultural differences.

[quote]and the attornies

It's a-t-t-o-r-n-e-y-s you illiterate moron.

R171 Cheers mate. I'm sorry I've probably even found a way to bastardise that transliteration... I find for me it is one of the most [italic] precious [/italic] tenets of my Judaism. We each have special things which speak to us. I'm assuming you're Jewish, or know Hebrew, possibly Israeli?

I think this teaching, as well as the caution of Lashon Hara, is especially important in today's world of anonymous postings to the internet.

Thank you again. As a Jew, I find a special sense of responsibility to remind others of the humanity of Gypsy people. There goes before them, some of the very similar hatred and judgement as we have suffered. Ill perceived notions, odd beliefs regarding their nature, etc. As I said, I love their music, and I love the ones I've come to know.

L'Chaim and Shalom

[quote] "The Romani are probably the least effective criminals ever."

r170, Your post was very nearly perfect. My only suggestion would be to replace "The Romani" with "pickpockets." However, your conclusion couldn't have been better put. Kudos.

Iowa Johnny, shush.

r174, I am not Jewish, but thank you for thinking I might be. All I know of Lashon Hara, which is to say virtually nothing, is that it concerns talking about a person instead of talking to them, and in so doing, destroying their humanity by reducing them to something less than human---an object of evil. Hate mongers' stock in trade.

I'm very happy that we've had this conversation. Morpheus beckons, so I'm going to sign off for now, but I'll be on the lookout for your future posts. Shalom.

R177 Cheers Johnny.... and many blessings to you as well. I too look forward to your future postings. I'm not perfect though, so cut me a bit of slack too!

I dont know who this Iowa Johnny is yapping at as I've got it blocked. Interesting.

Iowa Johnny will NOT shut up. Must be the corn.

They are from the banjara tribes of desert western India. They were tinkers. A profession still followed in England and Ireland. Gypsy settlements in Eastern Europe today remarkably resemble Indian towns, all a hodgepodge of building styles and messy.

As mentioned earlier, Tony Gatlifs remarkable film Latcho From is worth watching. Extraordinary musical journey.

One branch went to Egypt first. Another came into eastern Europe. So as also mentioned up thread, the name gypsy may very well derive from Egypt. It's also where gypped meaning cheated comes from.

Guests arriving at the UWS premiere public screening of Robert Duvall film Angelo, My Love, about the gypsy in new York reportedly found no seats as all had been occupied by gypsies - none of whom had paid for tickets. They'd all snuck in no one knows how.

The Roma are another nation without a country, like the Saami, that has permanent representation in the United Nations.

They are the reason child marriage is still a thing in many states. They marry their kids (esp the daughters) off at extremely young ages.

In my hometown there were several Roma families and some of the kids were in my class. They were not stupid but they did not get any support from their parents with homework or anything like that because they simply don't value education. Therefore the kids just dropped out of school in 4th/5th grade and could barely read or write. The girls were married off to older men at 12 and had their children at 13. Also incest and sexual abuse were rampant but not reported to the police.

For me it was like a cult, they make sure that you have no other skills to survive without your tribe, so you are stuck for the rest of your life. Very depressing.

They're HOT and have a fascinating accent

They're HOT and have a fascinating accent

Why are there no real-estate makeover shows featuring those wagon things? They're the original tiny houses, and Millennials should be all over that shit.

There are more than a million people in the U.S. with Romani ancestry. And I have never met one, or heard of one. There are no TV commercials depicting people joyfully discovering from genetic-testing kits that they are part Gypsy.

Some posters upthread mentioned pickpocketing. Lol, the smart ones upgraded a long time ago, now it is all about social welfare scams. They can work the system like experts: claiming child benefits for non-existent children (with fake birth certificates), faking disabilities, faking jobs and then applying for unemployment money, etc. My neighbors work for the local government and have so many stories to tell.

Irish Travellers have no DNA links to Roma. They might possibly be pre Celtic Irish. I have worked with some Traveller families who were settled. They had their own way of doing things but always seemed friendly and respectful. They are treated appallingly by the state which allowed instances like the terrible abuse of the O’Reilly sisters to go unnoticed for so long. They can be quite violent when the feel wronged though. There was a big inter family feud a number of years ago and people ended up dead. I also came across this in a completely unrelated incident with a family in England. I think they were of Irish Traveller origin too. Not sure if the same exists within the Roma families. They do need to hugely improve their treatment of women and children but I generally have no issue with their lifestyle as long as they are peaceful and staying the right side of the law.

Interesting documentary.

R190 Interesting. Does anyone remember this episode of Criminal Minds? Gypsy parents kidnap a girl (and kill her parents) to groom as a bride for their young son.

It sounds like they have retained their Indian culture and habits. Are they Christian or mixed in with Hindu?

Many are Chrstian, always mixed with lots of magic though.

If you go to the Long island Museum webpage (it's in Stony Brook, NY), the carriages page contains info on the carriage collection I was talking about, plus the Gypsy cart, known as a "wardo". IIRC the interior, which is shown, was displayed when I was a kid as fully furnished, and had little chairs and folding tables in it, with beaded cloths on the table and vases full of dried flowers. I think it was the child-size of everything (and it's "witchy" aspect) that was really enchanting.

The silver fire engine on display is also worth a look - emergency equipment designed by Louis Comfort Tiffany.

Would post a link but the site isn't allowing it.

once again....BAJOUR !!

They may have no talent, but at least they have a gimmick.

[quote]and had little chairs and folding tables in it, with beaded cloths on the table and vases full of dried flowers. I think it was the child-size of everything (and it's "witchy" aspect) that was really enchanting.

That was for the Midgytsies.

R121, Michael looks more like I how associate typical European Roma looks.

He's an interesting one -- grew up in Palm Springs, was married off in a typical Romani wedding (to a woman) and had kids. Later on, came out as gay and became a successful fashion designer.

The ones Ive met identfy as Gypsy not Roma, so is it really derogatory? They also look more white than indian. Very christian fundy homeschooling types. Then theres this one kid who keeps on OD’ing on something and CPS cant fo anything, hes practically emancipated and on his own

Roma tomatoes?

[quote]Irish Travellers

How did they survive the potato famine? Or did they come to the U.S.? And did they bring their spoons?

R194 Vardo

The grifty creepy manager/boss at my last job who didn’t pay my wages is this nutcase anorexic Frau whose husband beats her, and to cope she believes fervently in things like horoscopes and tarot and Gypsy magic.

Though I was a good employee who didn’t deserve mistreatment, several months before I left she started throwing false accusations at me, such as that I was stealing from her store and hiding her mail. Then I discovered later that she was paying a local Gypsy to spy on me outside the door at my store (it was a franchise, I ran the smallest one), and to try to get me to buy glass pebbles from her that I presume had a spell or curse attached. Every time this Gypsy woman approached me or spoke to me I politely greeted her, curtly declined her offers with thanks and sincerely wished her a pleasant day. The whole thing was so weird.

I think the late Bob Hoskins was part Roma.

To they have hygiene issues at all?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Chaplin being Roma would explain his preference for young girls.

Sir Michael Caine and Tracey Ullman both have some Romani ancestry. R187 You are correct, as I had mentioned upthread, due to such hostilities against them, most choose to fly under the radar.

I know an American woman whose adopted daughter has half Romani ancestery, and the lady informed me she is not going to tell her. I think that's sad and dishonest, yet I couldn't bring myself to say anything.

Both R190 & R191 are worth watching.

[quote]as I had mentioned upthread, due to such hostilities against them, most choose to fly under the radar.

oh, so they can "pass"

R208 I don't particularly care for the term "passing", but for lack of a better synonym, I suppose that is in some minds.

They generally are quite cautious to share the information is all, especially when settled and trying to live peacefully among those who may be hostile. I've met "Greeks" who have later told me they're Roma, after learning I'm Jewish, and not hostile to their identity.

I think in some people's minds, for them, as in the case of the lady I was discussing, she feels she's sparing her daughter some sort of shame, or stigma. I don't much care for the term "passing", but for all practical purposes, most people who are mixed with Romani can pass (as you say) as many things really. The adopted girl in question is also half Mexican, and in my opinion appears Mexican.

Opportunistic parasites

Went to a friends elderly uncle and insisted that ho hall wall was damp and pulled all the plaster off, charged 38k for materials and disappeared.

Fucking reptiles

Brad Pitt played the Gypsy boxer character ‘One-Punch’ Mickey O’Reilly in Guy Ritchie’s SNATCH (2000).

the gypsies in Wales still live in Caravans.

Their asses always smell bad.

OP it’s spelled ‘Gippos’.

None of those people look anything like gypsies R213

They are one step up from trailer park dwellers in the Southern States.

R216 They're descended from Romani people who settled in Wales in the 18th century. They are also called The Kale. The photo with the Wiki link is from 1951.

Shocking incident from Traveler halting site.

I can well believe it. A friend recounted how she and her cycling club were passing a Traveler halting site, when suddenly a bunch of small kids ran out and threw a broken bicycle into the path of the cyclists. Some parents watched laughing at the behavior.

R117 that lends credence to all the horrible stories of gypsies because Michael Costello was the biggest two faced phony that show has ever seen. It was shocking what a blatant liar he was.

[Quote] To they have hygiene issues at all?

They're descended from Indians.

BGKO or now Barcelona Gipsy Balkan Orchestra

I believe there are many in Romania

R20 I find them interesting, but it seems much of that bad reputation was earned.

R223 - yes I am in Romania and I can tell you there are. They are essentially like the untouchables, speak a Hindi language, liven the fringes of society and are pariahs. Some are poor and dark as Inians while some look Irish and wear huge dresses and the men sort of dress like Haredim.

Many of the poor left Romania but are now back because of the pandemic. The neighbor psychiatry resident I mentioned in another thread, very affluent girl, says that she was supposed to beat the hospital but was sick one day and a bunch tried to break into her place. It means they knew her schedule, saw her around with her car and realized she probably had valuable things in her home. Same with a young neighbor couple who own a couple of barbershops. They go to their country house each weekend and come Saturday morning a bunch tried the lock. Very dangerous.

No mention of the movie with Michael Fassbender in which he plays a traveler in the UK who wants to break out of a life of crime?

Thank you r222! I do love their music.

r62 - lol. Poor thing, you don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

I had to go to an Ikea outside of Paris recently. I took the RER train then a trail through a nature preserve, Ikea was on the other side. There was a full on gypsy caravan in the woods behind Ikea, across from a junkyard where about 6 little boys were playing. I took the same route back but if the kids were just a bit older, I would have expected to be robbed in the woods of my Küggis and Kørken.

Not necessarily true, R23. While the Roma may have a legacy of cartomancy and therefore began to use tarot cards after they were more popularized in the turn of the century with the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, the tarot originates in France and northern Italy. They may have read other types of playing cards, but the Roma did not originate or revive the traditional tarot. That’s the work of kooky English spiritualists.

[quote] What is it in the American psyche that makes us so loath to call people what they wish to be called? How, actually, does this even concern us?

Names are powerful and political tools. When Korea was a colony of Japan, the Japanese forced Koreans to adopt and use Japanese names. That's just one example. How very like an American to have no awareness beyond America and to assume every distasteful practice is uniquely American.

And another example is Olaudah Equiano, who was christened Gustavas Vassa by his Swedish owner. Later in life, once he had obtained his freedom as a Briton, he reclaimed his given name, Olaudah Equiano. The world does not begin and end with America.

*

R232 wishes he were American. What a prick.

Been listening to a lot of "gypsy jazz" lately -- prompted by this thread.

It's becoming one of my favorite styles of music.

I'm not European and have no firsthand experience with the Roma; still, I can see how they would be difficult to live alongside. But their music might be their most redeeming quality.

They’re basically the hobos of Europe with cuter outfits