Who did Madonna probably hate more during her heyday?

Interestingly as far as I know she never publicly said anything about Sheena Easton, Taylor Dayne, Celine Dion or Toni Braxton who all had their time to shine too

She’s on record of having talked shit about all of them, which is ironic considering all her female empowerment shit she’s always harping on about. Yeah, she cares so much about women that instead of supporting fellow women, she talked shit about any female she felt was competition to her.

Wasn’t there a tiff with Boy George ? And Elton John ?

R1 There was one time she was presenting an award at some awards show in the 90’s, and Celine won and she sarcastically said “What a surprise.” She’s a total bitch.

[quote]Wasn’t there a tiff with Boy George ? And Elton John ?

She’s had tiffs with about half the industry.

I voted for “other,” as in she probably hates the shit-stirring idiot who started this thread.

She was jealous of Whitney and Celine. I doubt She cared about Janet or Paula Abdul.

She hated actresses like Sharon Stone because they did something she couldn't---act.

Cyndi was perhaps the most in her lane. She new she wouldn’t get compared with a black woman, so Whitney probably wasn’t much of a concern. It is a shame because Cyndi has defended Madonna in many interviews throughout the years. But after the 80s I am sure Madonna never thought about her agian.

Of the 90s stars, probably Courtney Love, since she had the balls to interrupt her interview with MTV and Courtney was far more bad ass than anything Madonna has ever done.

Lady Gaga is probably the one who Madonna hates the most. When Gaga came on the scene, Madonna knew rhe jig was up.

Hydrangea, she's loathed them openly for decades!

I remember in Truth or Dare one of her background singers was singing a Belinda Carlisle song to another background singer (because she used to sing background for BC) and Madonna said, “Those girls annoy me. It’s dumb imitating Belinda Carlisle.”

Cher was a contender against her in the 80’s

Sharon Stone.

Belinda was kicking around the UK With a minor comeback when Madonna was also living there.

[Quote] Mariah of course went on to permanently surpass Madonna for most #1 hot 100 hits

With payola.

Janet wasn't a force on the world stage until the janet album, so that probably kept Madonna's ire at a fairly low level.

There’s a handwritten letter written by Vadge herself that was unearthed a few years ago where she talked shit about Whitney and Sharon saying she’d rather die than be them and calling them horribly mediocre. OK bitch then why are they on your mind getting you upset???

Whitney's catalogue, styling, dancing (!), tours... were mediocre. There are some highlights, but yes, mediocre on the whole.

R16 Plus Mariah’s cant dance ass couldn’t even tour.

It seems like back then then everyone hated each other and did not hide it, it was great.

[Quote] Mariah’s cant dance ass

LIES!

LOL! The Grandmadonna stans still haven’t answered the question: if those artists are so mediocre, why were they even crossing her mind? You wouldn’t even waste your time acknowledging a person that was supposedly mediocre.

It must kill her that "reductive" Lada Gaga got an Oscar nomination for acting and won for writing a song but the acting one probably really irks Madge.

Definitely Whitney and Janet.

For Whitney, the letter speaks for itself. "Mediocre" -- in what lifetime?

I recall her saying she would "kill herself" than be Mariah Carey..

For Janet, former dancers of Madonna went on record a few years ago to admit the tension between the two camps was mainly from Madge. Arsenio Hall in his book claimed Madonna was talking slick backstage at an awards show he hosted/attended (can't remember exactly) Apparently their dressing rooms were next to each other. Janet isn't known to shade anybody so her "class" dig at Madonna appears provoked from all that behind the scenes tension. I can't recall her feuding/shading anyone else, tbh... The quote from the MTV History book (of Arsenio Hall): "..yeah, I was in my dressing room and Madonna's was next to mine and Janet's was next to hers. Well Madonna's dressing room door was cracked open and I could hear her talking about Janet -not in a positive way...and actually one of Janet's people heard as well."

Kevin Stea, one of Madonna's dancers for the Blonde Ambition tour, confirmed it in this radio interview clip, saying there was "one specific incident that he couldn't believe" he didn't want to spill the details, but said "there's something really deep going on here, that I'm not privy to" and "it seemed like she only does it to -- I don't know, specifically to Janet" and that he thinks it was more from Madonna's side than Janet. (Link of interview attached, timestamp 30:17)

[Quote] why were they even crossing her mind? You wouldn’t even waste your time acknowledging a person that was supposedly mediocre.

Really? Madonna always had $ucce$$ on her mind.

I think Hagdonna considered Crackney “mediocre” because she was just a great voice and nothing else.

Janet’s peak (‘93-‘94) landed right in the middle of Madonna’s post-Erotica retreat.

I’m sure it bothered her as she then re-emerged with (surprise!) a mid-tempo R&B track, ‘Secret.’

It was the first time Madonna became a follower and not a leader of pop culture.

Jabba Jackson's shitastic dancing was a step above The Pointer Sisters. Nice try, loser. And MJ's dancing was extremely limited and probably all stolen from classical dancers.

R25 Thank you. And there you have it.

She’s a nasty cunt that has never been nice to people and deserves all the bad karma she’s got in recent years.

She was always a bigger star than Janet. Why would she be jealous? Only Celine and Whitney have eclipsed her at times.

[Quote] It was the first time Madonna became a follower and not a leader of pop culture.

That's not quite true. She jumped on house music relatively late, for instance.

Cyndi, Whitney, and Mariah could sing better, so probably them. Paula and Janet could dance a little better, so probably them.

But Whitney's dead, Mariah's fat, Cyndi is the opening act for Rod Stewart, Paula is such a drunken mess she got kicked of a talent show, and Janet had to cancel her tour.

I think Madonna was also threatened by Sinéad O'Connor for a few years, probably even more than Paula Abdul. For all of her early crucifix necklaces and the shenanigans of Like a Prayer (the video, Pepsi commercial, Blonde Ambition tour controversy in Italy), Sinéad didn't have to resort to such orchestrated events to get the same amount of attention--not to mention having a better natural singing voice than any of the women listed here. Madonna flaunted her sculpted physique, Sinéad shaved her head and wore baggy clothes and yet was clearly more beautiful. (Sinéad also studied Kabbalah way before M).

According to the book "I Want my MTV : The Uncensored Story of the Music Video" by Rob Tannenbaum: "When Sinead O’Connor’s “Nothing Compares to U” beat out Madonna’s “Vogue” for the Video of the Year award, Madonna was furious (“Sinead O’Connor has about as much sex appeal as Venetian blinds”) and Sinead gloated (“I was very pleased to beat the s— out of her.”)"

After the SNL incident, Madonna was on the following week and relished the chance to jab O'Connor by tearing up a picture of Joey Buttafuoco. Despite the negativity, she was still probably jealous of all the press O'Connor got, even if she could never understand why she throw away a lucrative pop career over a song that wasn't even a single or on her upcoming album.

Whitney was always very kind about Madonna, Janet, Barbra and Aretha. And Missy Elliot and Lauryn Hill and Kelly Price and Luther and Nancy Wilson and Dionne and Diana and everyone really. Not so much Mariah. Later, well yes. Whitney was confident in her own great talent. You can't be that good and not know it. Untouchable talent. High or not.

Madonna didn't really threaten anyone did she? She was kind of in her own lane, always. Popular.

Madonna was like most Leos who are success-driven: insecure and competitive, despite how much she has accomplished in her career. (Funny enough, Whitney was a Leo as well and never felt threatened by her rivals the way Madonna did back in the day.)

She was on record dissing Whitney, Janet and Mariah, so definitely those three.

The sad miserable bitch is now old and alone because of her shitty personality. You may be able to get away with that shit in your 20’s and 30’s, but after 40 you just end up looking like an old cunt.

I get that Janet is kind of a joke now, and I’m speaking as a fan of both.

But let’s not pretend ‘Rhythm Nation’ and ‘Janet’ weren’t huge records, at least for us minorities.

Madonna went crawling to Babyface for hits for crying out loud. And, again, I’m a fan.

[Quote] (Funny enough, Whitney was a Leo as well and never felt threatened by her rivals the way Madonna did back in the day.)

That's BS. Take the "I don't think of her [Mariah]" quote, for example.

R36 Whitney not threatened are you sure about that? Mariah did the same thing to Jlo a decade later.

R35 R39 R40 Whitney was kind about Mariah in the beginning, but she was getting tired of people always bringing her up in interviews. So that's why she finally gave that cunty remark. I don't blame her. She was out to promote her album and in almost every interview she was asked about Mariah.

Lady Gaga wasn't included because her success happened way after Madonna was past her peak

Whitney wasn't threatened by Mariah. She always complimented Mariah's talent as a vocalist and said repeatedly that she doesn't understand the comparisons because she felt Mariah had her own style of singing.

R42 No one here (with a brain) likes Lady Fugga anyway.

Robyn has a story in her book about Whitney worrying over Mariah's out-of-the-gate success. Whitney's third album under performed.

how did Madonna not ever have a moment with Sheena Easton? Sheena was 1 of the most consistent pop acts. She had hits from 1980 to 1988

I think there was a story back in the early 80s that Madonna said something cunty about Teena Marie, too.

R43 Come on , two power singers with ballads for hits and who couldn’t dance for shit were going to get compared to each other.

Sony wasted 7 million on the ridiculous Scream video where Janet does absolutely NO fucking dancing. She and MJ do a lame exercise routine at 3:20 that is still not "dancing" in any sense. In the whole vid Janet is just walking around, pretending she has a dick a couple times, hopping around, crawling around. Anyone who honestly thinks Jabba was a legit "dancer" in ANY sense needs to get their head outta their ass. Her dancing was as fake as her non-existent singing voice and her plastic titties that wrecked her career never to return.

Oh, I agree, R48. Tommy Mottola followed the Clive Davis blueprint and used it for Mariah's early stardom. So the comparisons were going to be made regardless. I'm just saying Whitney didn't start out being dismissive of Mariah in the beginning and was often complimentary towards her.

Whitney was jealous of Madonna's success and performing skills which is why she constantly attacked her in interviews. She couldn't stand the fact that Madonna was outselling her all over the world. She also was jealous that Madonna was a great dancer and performer and her tours were far more successful than her's. Whitney never had a successful tour.

Mariah and Whitney eventually recorded a hit single together (I've forgotten the name of it) and it was like the dueling divas. They both sounded pretty good on it.

Nah, Whitney was a bitch about Mariah from the beginning, but guess what? They’re all bitches. It’s why we like them.

That's really not true. The first time Whitney was asked about Mariah was on Byron Allen's talk show in 1990. She wasn't bitchy in her response.

Madonna's "heyday" was arguably 1984-1992. Therefore it would probably be Janet and Paula in 89-91 and Whitney in 92 with the Bodyguard soundtrack.

I don't think she hated Cyndi in the 80s, I think she probably saw herself as a younger sexy version of Cyndi so Cyndi wasn't really a threat to her.

Start at the 8:58 mark.

I don’t know if hate is the right word. I would have used Dislike instead.

Madonna is the best selling female artist of all time. Best female touring act of all time. And most of all, she is the most popular one the most famous one and is always considered the Queen of Pop. only Michael and Elvis are are on her level.

She’s however a whore, narcissist, a cunt

Madonna would not be able to get away with hating talented (except Janet) black women today .

Disagree about Paula, R7. While Paula was a trained dancer with a fairly good resume as a choreographer, yet with a weaker voice (with rumors of not actually singing on her hit record), I remember Madonna sniping (in reference to Paula) that you had to be in really good shape to dance AND sing, implying Paula couldn’t/didn’t do both.

For better or worse, Madonna was more bitch than not.

Paula had the dancing street cred that Madonna craved.

Paul Abdul gave dancing lessons to Janet Jackson and helped her with her moves in her song videos.

R61 PAULA*********!

Yeah, I don’t know about those Paula not singing on her own records rumors... Those vocals sound straight out of Paula’s own nose.

The thing I find funny is Whitney felt threatened by Paula of all people? You don’t throw this type of shade at a fellow pop star if you aren’t threatened.

Paula Abdul was a decent vocalist, channeling a sexy vamp kitten.

Madonna didn't hate Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders, she just tried to steal her sound!

Any singer who can act better than her, so the list is long

This thread is just bored divisive bitching. Madonna can't sing or dance. But she was once extremely popular.

The others mentioned here were ALL more talented. Every one of them. The end.

R66 Hagdonna also copied the style of the Bananarama chicks.

Here's Madonna being asked about Whitney, Janet and Mariah.

R68 Even Manet??

R68 Sounds like brain dead Millennials who have zero understanding of what real talent, singing ability, dancing ability, or craft is. Vadge was weird looking, ugly, too short, practically a homunculus, gap-toothed, always had terrible dye jobs, could not sing, act, dance, or age well. But her huge ego prevented her from caring how everyone was laughing at her.

[quote]The thing I find funny is Whitney felt threatened by Paula of all people? You don’t throw this type of shade at a fellow pop star if you aren’t threatened.

I think because Whitney couldn’t dance for shit, and her videos and concerts were boring compared to Paula.

Whitney got tired and bitchy just like anyone else. But she knew what she had.

Whitney made clear she respected Madonna--every time someone tried to bait her into slagging M, W would redirect. And of course there was the time W sent M flowers when M had to face a stalker in court. Most interesting is this clip where she talks about Madonna and the difference between the performer and the person. Looking at it from the perspective of Whitney being closeted and pushed to maintain an image that was not her authentic self, I wonder if despite their very different styles W admired M being so frank and unapologetic about sex and sexualty.

Oooh, her voice was so pretty. Forever my girl.

Newsflash: Madonna is a sociopath. She wasn’t obsessed with Sharon Stone - she was obsessed with her character in Basic Instinct - also a... sociopath.

R76 I wish she’d recorded her own version of this song. Her voice was just effortless and beautiful back in those days.

No, Madonna immediately stood out from the others. As for Cyndi Lauper she even joked about it when she hosted Saturday Night Live. She had a skit where she showed some "home movies" and one of her cousins was dressed up in Cyndi Lauper type clothes and Madonna comments, "I never liked her."

Singers don't care about that competition. They only care about selling records and after Like A Virgin was a monster album, any competition was over. Madonna was the first artist since the Beatles to have that effect on the music industry. Whitney, Janet and Mariah just rode along. As a matter of fact Whitney's "perceived rival" at the time was Anita Baker, who actually has a much better voice than her, which seeing how good Whitney is, is saying something.

You're insane R79. Got to bed Madge.

I think she wrote the letter around 1993 when her career had somewhat imploded with the negative publicity about the book, the lukewarm response to the erotica album and the horrible reviews and box office of her movie body of evidence.

During that time stones erotic thriller basic instinct was a cultural juggernaut and madonnas erotic thriller failed. Also Houston’s first movie was a success and the bodyguard soundtrack became one of the biggest albums of all time, while madonnas underperformed and she got another razzie.

The first half of 1992 started out pretty good for Madonna she had another number one hit with “this used to be my playground” and a league of their own was a surprise hit.

Whitney was venting about Abdul because that was around the time she was being criticized for being too white and schmaltzy, she was booed at the soul train music awards which was humiliating and abdul was racking up hit after hit and got no blowback or criticism. The world was in love with Paula Abdul in 1989-90.

Right after Whitney died tmz posted a video of Whitney watching madonnas Super Bowl performance and rocking out to it and someone there said she was having fun and talked about how they were chart rivals but and had no ill will towards her.

The Whitney and Mariah duet was “when you believe” it was a hit but bit a huge smash and the song was forgettable and they both deserved better.

Madonna puts on a great show. That was her biggest strength. She knew how to entertain people. She couldn't compete vocally with Whitney or Mariah or Celine, but she outdid them with her concert tours.

There was an interview with Boy George where he discussed his rival George Michael, who had recently died, and admitted to badmouthing GM during their heyday. Asked why, and BG responded that they all badmouthed each other back then because that was the culture of the post punk '70s and '80s. Being brash and snotty and bitchy was how you intimidated your competitors, and if they were resilient and pushed back and persevered they earned your respect. Today everybody acts so nice and supportive, he said. Madonna came up during that era and that brash and snotty attitude is what made her stand ahead of the pack.

What about me, bitches? My peak was 1987-1989.

R83 If you weren’t a one album flash in the pan Tiff, they would have hated you and seen you as a threat as well.

R81 Hard to believe that mediocre song beat out Aerosmith’s “I don’t wanna miss a thing” for the Oscar. Diane Warren and Tyler deserved that one. Poor old gals.

You can tell OP is the type that still has a Phantom of the Opera mask on her wall.

I know Madonna definitely hates her true contemporaries Debbie Gibson and Tiffany.

No. She hates Alisha and Regina.

Sheena Easton didn't really sell albums, did she? I doubt Madge ever saw her as a thread. If Sheena's Nile Rodgers produced album was a hit, there might have been words from Madonna.

Whitney could respect Madonna's talent, which was vastly different from her own. Their record companies were always pitting them against each other, but they were on different paths. Here's Whitney watching Madonna's Super Bowl performance.

R89 most of her albums went gold in the US, only 1 platinum but she had 8 top 10 hits including 1 #1 and 2 #2 songs. Obviously she was prettier and a much better singer too but maybe Madonna was only threatened by lots of #1 songs and albums

[quote]As a matter of fact Whitney's "perceived rival" at the time was Anita Baker, who actually has a much better voice than her, which seeing how good Whitney is, is saying something.

Ah, Anita Baker. Speaking of capital "C" Cunts....

Sheena Easton was a singles artist, her albums did ok, but were never huge sellers. And I don't think anyone could name one of them, unlike the others being discussed here.

Madonna's main talent was being a provocateur and reinventing her brand.

She also knew a good tune and effective lyric.

Madonna is moderately talented. Her work ethic, connections, persistence, ability to spot (steal) upcoming trends and vagina is what got her to the top.

Every artist she hates and/or feels threatened by is more liked and well remembered by the public and is not treated as a joke like she is now.

So bizarre to hate Madonna. She is talented. Her longevity prove that. Any other bullshit and carry on is deranged.

R4 That was at the Oscars and it was in response to Titanic winning everything that night, not about Celine. Although, she shaded Celine in an interview saying her dad listens to her.

R98 There was some truth to that though Celine’s music leaned for a more mature audience.

Of course that's true. Celine is a decade younger than Madonna and nothing like her at all as a singer or musical artist. But Madonna enjoys being mean. Celine is a sweetheart who has one of the greatest voices of all time. Madonna is an sad silicone filled whore who sounded like a chipmunk on her best day.

You don't get to be a global superstar without being a bit of a monster. They're all like that.

Did Robyn ever confirm that she and Whitney were lesbian lovers?

Yes, though her book tries to convince us that she and Whitney were no longer lovers throughout the 1980s.

Madonna has praised Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Alison Goldfrapp, Kylie Minogue, Taylor Swift, and initially Lady Gaga. So she's not above throwing props to female artists she respects. And whenever Elton or Boy George or Cher dissed her, she never dissed back.

Cher of course. She had a respectable movie career and an Oscar.

I agree R105. Cher was completely right too. Madonna did nothing that Cher didn't do first. Cher was a bit establishment and Beverly Hills and Vegas for a time, but she was also beautiful and surprising and shocking and sexual and full of ambition. Gorgeous in her way and even more beautiful later. Outspoken but likeable. Unlike Madonna, Cher succeeded at most everything she tried. And then she came back round and succeeded again. And again. She didn't fall to pieces or let her small talent falter. She worked hard to maintain things and get better if she could. I don't like her music at all but there's no doubt that Cher is a bigger talent, a more intelligent human and a better woman than Madonna.

Madonna is the lamest performer f all time. She has mo charisma on her own which is why she needs the circus act and all the sychronized dancers who are all better than her.

Why does r49 come in and ruin every thread about Madonna or Janet, you are a dog with a bone. You can hate Janet as much as you want, but to insinuate that she isn’t a good dancer is laughable.

No need to insinuate when it's an obvious fact. Only a clueless moron would think well of Janet.

How can you insinuate that someone isn't a good dancer if they've been doing the same choreography for 30 years. That definitely takes talent!

Herself.

I like Janet, Whitney, Mariah all much better than Madonna, but shit, Open Your Heart is still the bop

Whitney definitely -- a genuine talent and beauty -- unlike all the rest.

interesting how Cyndi currently has the most votes

Madonna likely stopped thinking about Cyndi when True Colors did so poorly compared to her first album. By then Madonna had 3 huge albums, and each sold better than the last.

And everyone stopped thinking about both of them about 10 years ago. Cyndi won that fake Tony for Kinky Boots and Madonna started falling down a lot and did an hour on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon selling skincare? With a face and ASS full of fillers that distorted her beyond belief. Ghostown.

Whitney is the greatest recorded voice of the last 50 years and Janet is a legend. Paula was cute and harmless. She sang as well as Madonna, was a much better dancer and twice as attractive. The end.

Anita Baker arrived on the scene looking like an old woman. She was a vocal sensation, but no one's rival.

I've never heard of Shena Easton or Kylie Minogue. Truth.

Madonna shaded Cyndi in her sex book. She hated her (and copied her) because she is a real singer and an artist, less concerned with the business of making money. That probably inadvertently shaded McDonna, who was an amazing business woman - but could never be a real artist or singer (she came close to the latter on Evita - if she could have gotten past her chipped ego over singing lessons she could have really done so much more).

I don't think Sheena, Tiffany, people like that, not even on her radar.

Whitney was nice to her because she wanted to eat Madonna's pussy. As nasty and dick filled as it was, certainly, it had to be fresher than Bobby's budissy.

Keep trying JanBot, but the Rebel Heart tour was one of the biggest of 2016. So not only were people still thinking about her, they were paying top dollar for tickets.

Nobody in the mainstream has thought about Janet Jackson in YEARS. She's been over for a long time.

Madonna is the greatest female pop star of all time, esp. on a global level. Yes, she's been embarrassing herself for about a decade now, but you can't take away her legacy. She was the first female artist to outsell most male artists.

[quote]Whitney is the greatest recorded voice of the last 50 years

Aretha and Barbra are.

And Diana Ross broke more ground than Whitney ever did.

Madonna performed mid show at the 2019 billboard awards (basically the bathroom break slot), The same show where Mariah Carey was honored with the icon award and Paula Abdul closed the show.

Streisand is already forgotten. Nobody listens to her dreck music or recordings. Aretha was not a pop singer. Maybe the greatest female singer of all time. At her best. BUT, Whitney is the greatest recorded voice of the last 50 years and the most beautiful and accomplished voice of our time. Her ability and tone were superhuman. A flawless voice. She was even more thrilling when she sang live. Those are the facts.

Janet is a legend. Not to ancient white fags on Datalounge - but to the rest of the world. Aka, most people.

I bet it was cooler people that didn’t work outin the long run but had a moment. Like neneh cherry or the Deee-Lite singer or Jody Watley oe Bjork (in her disco era) Janet was pop sexy like she was. Paula abdual same thing & Kylie was the crappy SAW era

R122 best recorded voice? Whitney? Kathleen Battle & renee flemming both say fuck you & fuck off

Liking KFC-loving Jabba Jackson in 2020 should be a crime worthy of the greatest torture EVER. Ain't nothing good about that has been.

R122 just looked up Streisand album charts. Fuck you. Since 1985 six of her 11 albums went #1 Real forgotten asshole. You know you’re already on the internet could maybe a 3 minute search kill ya?

Madonna can’t sing live on key. What a fraud. Also she was grotesque on Fallon hawking product. The beginning of the true end.

Yes, she should just lip coo like some others.

This is a shirt stirring thread. Wow.

They were all jealous of each other. Whitney dissing Janet and Paula’s no voices in her documentary! Why, they weren’t on her level. I LOL when somebody brings up Lady I need more popular artists to duet for hits Gagz. Gagz isn’t even in the top 10 most successful of her contemporaries ( except those payola’d fluff articles). She had to ticket bundle her latest album knowing the tour would be canceled on the LAST day before Billboard changed the ticket bundle rule.

Anyway, they were all jealous of each other. Lauper was not more talented. She didn’t write her hits and her voice is fucking annoying. The general public said NAH and that was that. Janet, Miss Nepotism if you’re untalented. NAH.

19 #1 hot 100 singles baby! most of any female singer, #2 all time

including making a xmas song go to #1 iconic!

Madonna could NEVER

[quote]Janet is a legend. Not to ancient white fags on Datalounge - but to the rest of the world. Aka, most people.

Nobody in the mainstream world has thought of Janet Jackson in a very long time. She's never been as popular, globally, as Madonna or Whitney. Younger generations are not really listening to her music like some other artists of her era.

R130 google payola Mariah and enjoy. Must be nice that Tommy bought all those “ hits” no one remembers. Lol

Madonna may be a cunt but I love her voice.

Janet? The one who thought pulling out her nasty tit in front of children? That whore? She got canceled in 2004.

Whitney Houston undoubtedly is one of the greatest voices of all time, and she did have some great songs, but unfortunately she had a lot of shit too. She did too many bland MOR songs that any other singer could've done. That doesn't take away from the fact that she's one of the all-time greats, though.

Boomers are the only ones who are into Barbra Streisand. I'm Gen X and she's never been a big deal to us. Even Gen X gay guys. Madonna was THE most popular female pop singer of our generation, by a mile. Nobody else even came close.

Cyndi Lauper was too gimmicky for long-term success. It was inevitable that she would fizzle out. And her speaking voice was like nails on a chalkboard.

R134 right, Madonna was miles ahead in popularity. Even during the Backlash era she was playing stadiums. She had no reason to be jealous of the lesser thans.

Cyndi Lauper too gimmicky? Have you seen Madonna? No one is more gimmicky than her. Throughout her career she goes from gimmick to gimmick for shock value

Only a few critics thought CyndinfuckingLauper would make it long term. Male misogyny wanted Madonna to fail and sold that narrative. Funny now her first album is highly regarded when back then it was not. Cyndi sucked.

But Madonna's image changes were interesting to the public. Lauper stayed in her same kooky persona and style and it wore thin after a few years.

R137 bwhaha have you seen GAga? That’s gimmicks to the nth degree.

This thread was made by Gaga/ Janet Stan. 100%. Stir the pot. OP is the jealous one. Period. Seething. After all these years it cannot get over Madonna won. Big time. Do you eat your feelings? I bet you’re a fat freak who imprinted on your damaged fave diva due to shared mental fragility and ugliness. Weakling. Madonna doesn’t attract weak fans.

Gen X? Madonna was a gay sensation to white Boomers. Find me a 50 year old straight man or woman who loves Madonna? You can't. 60 to 75 year old white gays only. She sold a lot of records, but only ancient white gays will admit to being a fan of hers. She's virtually talentless. Her vast success seems like a cosmic joke now. Elvis at least could sing.

R142 you’re describing Janet dear.

R142 You sound unhinged. I’m reveling in your tears. That whole post screams typing while crying.

Madonna is so over that R142 is still yammering about her. Unhinged much?

Madonna Madonna Madonna it’s always Madonna. Why can’t it be MY fave, huh? Mommy I’m angry!

[quote]Gen X? Madonna was a gay sensation to white Boomers.

Bull. Shit. Gen X were Madonna's biggest fans. The kids of the 80s were all Gen X.

It constantly says Madonna is irrelevant and everybody hates her... and yet it posts thread after thread about her.

No gimmick was as bad as Cyndi joining wrestling. That was a straight-up WTF moment.

Madonna's former dancers (from Blond Ambition tour) talked about the 1990 VMAs and how there was a rivalry between the female dance artists; Madonna, Janet and Paula. They said that the crowd went the craziest for Madge and her crew during their VMA performance.

What about ME?!

R150 as her dancers though... wouldn't they obviously say that?

Well if you'd seen the show, you'd hear for yourself the crowd's insane reaction to the "Vogue" performance. They screamed throughout. And it was all that was talked about from the show for days after.

R130 in the mid /late 90’s: i remember Mariah singles were $1.29 for the cd & 69 cents for the tape single I bought a few because why not. Had they been the regular price of other singles i would never of bought them. To be fair this was when napster began & a lot of artist stopped releasing singles (you had to buy the album or pay import costs for the japan or uk singles) but Janet, Whitney & Madonna never discounted their singles (they also released singles stateside) so - love them or hate ‘em - Janet, Whitney & Madonna’s hits were less payola & reflected true interest & sales. As a side note , about ten years ago I threw away all my cd’s. What a waste of money it all was.

And how many times did we buy a CD and only two songs were decent and the rest were all shit just to fill out the album. I got burned so many times. And they weren't cheap, either.

R153, lies! Everyone was screaming during Madonna's performance because they were STILL screaming for Janet's performance!

And you tried it but the only thing people were talking about for weeks after was how stunning Janet looked and how much weight she had lost.

But you tried it!

Madonna's VMA Vogue performance is one of the greatest live performances ever. It's still being talked about. It was extremely well-done.

Janet actually brought out that rancid tit in front of kids because she’s like her brother and thought it would be cute. Was supposed to be her comeback but instead final nail.

Whatever you say about the bitch, and most of them are, Madonna had bad ass songs. And I,too, liked her voice. Versatile and very emotive. She felt those lyrics.

Frankly, none of them. Madonna didn't hate Whitney but she was obviously jealous of her during her Erotica/Bedtime Stories phase because her peak crashed while Whitney's exploded. They met later and Whitney defended Madonna in the press. And Whitney was chilling to Madonna's Superbowl performance before she died. Janet was a better dancer but inferior in every other way.

[quote] Mariah of course went on to permanently surpass Madonna for most #1 hot 100 hits

By the time of Butterfly, Mariah could not get her songs to number one without payola. This is actually well documented. Honey and My All hit the top 10 but they weren't going to number one the way Mariah thought they would (unlike songs from Daydream or Music Box). So Tommy paid the radio stations to play her songs more and they hit number one. I still think it's stupid that Billboard considers airplay in it's formula. A song can have great radio play but mediocre sales and hit number one. Stupid.

R156. They both did fine on that show. Madonna wore the glenn close outfit to vogue & janet did the heavy metal song. I don’t know how old you are but myv was a part of life but not essential at that point Hanet got sexy with love will never do & then the janet album. I’d agree she was bigger than madonna with that album (who did Erotica after a huge greatest hits album) R142 wrong. Madonna/ Janet/ Whitney /cyndi wannabe’s are now in their late 40’s - to mid 50’s. The 60 & 70 crowd were all about Debbie Harry (the true diva of them all) /donna Summer people. You’d know this by looking it up on the device in your hand. All these chicks have been relentlessly documented on the a thing called the internet

Vadge fans will continue to scream payola, payola, payola until they turn red in the face, R130, but we all know it burns them up inside that Mariah has more number one hits than her.

And to correct the record, she only discounted her singles with the release of Rainbow and Glitter, AFTER her prime. Vadgebots will have you believe she did this from the beginning and during her peak (1990-1997) which is patently false. This accusation is not supported by any credible musical journalists or historians.

And finally, payola doesn't explain why Music Box and Daydream sold over 30 and 20 million respectively worldwide. Payola doesn't explain why she has THREE diamond albums, with her debut album being one of them. Payola doesn't explain why she's one of the wealthiest women in music.

Madonna hated everyone. Her insane letters ranting about Whitney and Sharon Stone and screaming how can't anyone see how amazing she is screamed mental illness.

[quote]By the time of Butterfly, Mariah could not get her songs to number one without payola. This is actually well documented.

Link.

R165

[quote] In mid-1997, Mariah released the song “Honey,” which was not doing so well on the radio, at least not as well as expected. Call out research on the song was only average. However, when Sony discounted the song to 49 cents, the song immediately hit No. 1. Sony and Billboard were trying to give an illusion that Mariah was still a chart-topper, and it worked to a certain extent. In the spring of 1998, Mariah released another “No. 1” song, “My All,” which would have only been a top 10 hit had it not been discounted for 49 cents. The same could be said for future Mariah Carey “No. 1” songs such as “Heartbreaker” and “Thank God I Found You.”

And you have to remember that in the 90s, the billboard chart was changed to place a larger weight on radio play. This wasn't the case in the 80s when Madonna, Whitney and Michael had their biggest hits.

R163 you‘re wrong. Tower records in the basement single section (nyc) had mariah discounted in the 90 ‘s. You mention music box & the other one. That was her peak. Who’d argue it? But Honey- the first Mariah i bought was at a discount & from then on. As i wrote i bought a few

And Madonna is still way ahead of Mariah in sales, with about the same number of albums.

This is all so stupid. Fun but really stupid. Now none of them sell except Cyndi Lauper & the monster worldwide hot musical she wrote. So joke on us all

So bear with me, I was never much into Madonna cuz in I was more into hard rock. I always caught her premiere MTV vids back in the day because they were an event....

I just rewatched the Rupaul Rusical on Madonna, and was impressed with how many different periods she had gone through.

What were the real hit songs of hers that they parodied in the Rusical? I thought it would be a good playlist to start my discovering of her music.

Isn't there some kind of talk about how Madonna's numbers would actually be a lot higher but WB won't re-certify or some shit?

Mariah was discount city. Cheater. Madonna had pricey singles and like 8 #2 songs she could have pushed to #1 but didn’t. WBRnwas such a terrible label it drove Prince insane. They barely lifted a finger for her or Prince.

Janet is not a better dancer than the classically trainer Madonna. Janet does easy robot military moves over and over. Madonna does intricate choreography Janet could only dream. Even Paula shaded janets dancing.

And Janet had zero voice. Good god even Paula could sing circles around her.

R171 ment hit not hot.

R173, charmasters.org takes that stuff into account. According to them, Madonna is the only female artist in the top 10 selling artists of all time. She has sold about 240 million records. Celine is 2nd, Mariah 3rd and Whitney 4th. Keep in mind Whitney's discography is much smaller than the others.

Madonna is millions under certified by Warner. By at least 10-15 million. And that is only albums. Her singles are so under certified it’s ridiculous. Crazy For You sold 2 million but is only certified Gold.

R172 never mind

just found this

These threads always bring out the total psychotics. None of you are telling the truth. All your irrelevant bitches from the 80s sucked. The young have never even heard of any of them. Like Dylan is dino rock, they are dino pop.

Chartmasters isnt up to date on Madonna. Also, WBR pulled all their artists off YouTube in a dispute in 2006 for 3 or 4 years. When they put the vids back on, their video counts started at 0. Madonna lost hundreds of millions of views that are now counted as “sales”.

R179 I love when right on cue the elder gay comes in to tell us that people aren’t relevant because “the young “don’t know who they are. As if a young person buying a single doesn’t count the same as an older person buying a single or a stream from a younger person doesn’t count the same as the stream from an older person. Who gives a flying fuck if someone is popular with young people.

R179 Sweetie you’re psychotic having to always tell us somebody doesn’t count unless young people like them. I’m sure you hear that a lot on Grindr.

"Who did Madonna probably hate more during her heyday?"

Why not ask what air Madonna breathed most during her heyday?

How "young" are you gays here on DL anyway? You all sound like turds. So glad I'm over 40.

At her peak, Madonna sold a million copies of a VHS "video single" for nearly $10 each (about $20 in 2020). No one else has or could pull off such a feat.

Why would the best selling, by far, female singer hate these others? I’m sure they all had their issues with each other but Madonna was miles ahead in every measurable metric. It wasn’t even close overall. A few bested her in a year but Madonna was dominant unlike we’ll ever see again.

So, according to that Huffington Post opinion piece (written by a no-name actor who is NOT a music journalist), Mariah allegedly did this with "Honey," "My All, "Heartbreaker" and "Thank God I Found You." And this is based on an article written by Roger Friedman when she flopped with Glitter. Sorry, but I don't find any of this credible, nor does it makes sense. By the time Mariah released "Butterfly," she was divorced from Tommy Mottola. Too many former Sony executives and artists at the time said that once their divorce was finalized, he no longer had any interest in guiding her career moving forward. Meaning, the machine she once had during her prime was no longer there.

So the idea of Mottola manipulating the Billboard charts to move things in Mariah's favor during the release of Butterfly and Rainbow rings false. This is why it's important not to take the opinion of a pop culture writer as evidence. This guy gave nothing but speculations and used most of the slander from Roger Friedman's 20-year-old article to discredit Mariah.

And funny that this article was written at the time of her New Year's Eve fiasco (similar to Roger Friedman's hit-piece when she flopped with Glitter). That article was nothing more than a tabloid hit-piece. Not credible in the least.

R187, they weren't divorced yet. They were still married (but had publicly announced their separation) when the "Honey" video debuted. Their divorce took a couple years and it's very possible Mottola was still set to gain from her sales from Butterfly not just as a Sony exec, but also as her spouse.

Roger was HER go to guy for hit pieces on, mainly, Madonna as the emails from her former manager Medina leaked all over the Internet. Google Mariah payola. It even made it into a NY state case. Bitch was known to deeply discount her singles at just the right times. Billboard had to ban the practice for singles as they did for albums when gaga deeply discounted. There are so many things Billboard has had to ban because of tricks Mariah has done.

R187 get over it. That’s what happened. Cheap records. Who cares? It was the 90’s. Twenty years ago. Mariah isn’t selling & her last tour was as an opening act for lionel richie Janet isn’t selling.& can’t fill a concert hall like she once did. madonna isn’t selling & her body gave up on her with the last tour. paula doesn’t record but does package tours with other 80’s act Cyndi wrote a hit musical and records genre albums. Celine is on an endless tour & her albums don’t sell. kylie isn’t selling but does great in concert. Babs , Debbie harry , stevie, olivia are in their 70’s & retired or doing less then they did. Whitney’s dead. People buy their new stuff in a week or two & then not. The young have it for free on their streaming or take it off the internet or don’t know or don’t care who any of these people are. Still mariah was payola to keep the hits going & even that’s ancient history. You are still allowed to love your diva.

Oh, bullshit. You Vadgebots create so many narratives about Madonna's rivals as a way to discredit them because you know she's the least talented out of all of them. And Roger Friedman was NOT her guy for hit pieces when he wrote several about Mariah during the 90s and early 2000s. It wasn't until after her breakdown that he softened up on her. But he always hated Madonna. No need to blame Mariah for that one. But of course, you lunatic Vadgebots would think it's some conspiracy from Mariah's camp to slander Hodonna.

Yes, yes, Billboard had to change so many rules, yet they continue to give her legend awards for her achievements on their charts every other year. Lol. Yeah. Okay.

R190, I am over it. I just wanted to correct the record that Mariah wasn't the only one who used payola around that time (Ricky Martin and many others did as well), and she only did it briefly at the tail-end of run in the 90s and early 2000s, NOT during her prime.

That is all.

No one is selling. It’s all streaming. That said, if Madonna does the hits on tour it’ll be epically huge. Bad knee or not.

R191 oh you poor thing. Least talented? That’s what you desperately want to believe to justify your hate. She’s a bitch and cunt but she’s a great songwriter, ask Patrick Leonard or Niles Rodgers or Rick Knowles, who describe her as one of the greatest, vocally she has great strengths and is firmly in the medium vocal range where most singers are, and she’s one of the greatest dancers. I like her voice more than mariahs whispery breathy bullshit or her annoying dog whistle (who cares). No need to make up her cheating it’s well documented. If Madonna spent a fourth of the time on her chart position as Mariah the cunt would have 20 something #1s.

R192...I wouldn’t bet on it, madonnas almost 70 now, she’s not gonna tour again. Even if she tried to (she shouldn’t, she’s not Tina Turner or Cher) she canceled almost half the shows and had to rope off sections of theaters to her tour last year because no one bought tickets.

The one that likes to talk about roped off tours is the one that is the biggest denier of someone roping off for the past... 20 years. Just saying!

I think Madonna hated them all equally because she felt inferior that they were all songwriters and she was just singing other people’s songs

R191 Oh no you don’t. Mariah did payola throughout her career. Tommy did soooooo much for her. Fuck Madonna but bitch didn’t need to cheat. Mariah and her payola is legend. And you want to talk who is a ho, Mariah is a prostitute for one literally marrying for hits. She let Eminem piss on her and was known to let every rent a rapper tap her ass. She’s supremely untalented even with that voice which she lost 5 years in. If you want to see something truly funny look up her touring stats and see how she couldn’t even fill 4000 C theaters at her heyday.

R196 you’re embarrassing yourself now as if anyone would think the airheaded Mariah or the nepotism addled Janet could write songs. Oh never mind if you look at the lyrics to the songs maybe they did. Third maybe fourth grade level material maybe.

I don't hate Madonna, R193. I admire her live performances back in the day and love her music.

I do despise her stans like you, R197, and many other eldergays on Datalounge because you're just as proud and insecure as the queen you worship.

But I'm over this debate. That little Huffington Post tabloid article didn't prove shit. Try and find an actual credible article from a legitimate music journalist.

If any of you want to look at tour stats how much each tour made on each stop to see who really made money and who really roped off sections go ahead and Google all the divas. You’ll see nothing but embarrassing numbers for Janet Mariah gaga and others. You’ll see video proof and financial proof that Madonna didn’t have to rope off anything.

R199 Listen here a little bitch. No one has to be a Madonna stan to know that Mariah Carey is the biggest payola artist ever. Her name and payola go together like peanut butter and jelly. If you Google her name and payola the goods are all there including federal cases. She’s a cheater. Her songs are not classics except that Christmas song which billboard again had to change their rules because she cheated her way to number one with that again. Look it up it just happened.

I like how it pretends not to be who we all know it is.

I liked some of Mariah's music but GOD what a dumb cunt she was. It was painful to see her in interviews, she was so fucking dumb. Madonna always kept things interesting. You know she'd say something really bitchy or outrageous.

I wonder who is the real winner here: the person who has to tour to make money in the 70s, decrepit body and all, or the person who can sit back and allow their Christmas classic generate a significant income each year while only performing a few concerts.

That's all you Vadgebots can go on, tour stats. No one but her hardcore stans cares.

Anyway. I'm done. Continue in your idolatry of all things Vadge, cunt at R201.

So in other words...

r204 you’re seething. If all she has is a Christmas song that’s tragic. All those fake #1s yet nobody carey and can’t get asses in the seats. She’ll always be an also ran and an epic cheater.

Nobody Carey! Lmfao!

Is she fat again? Did she celebrate her 54 birthday or did she do the anniversary of her 12th birthday like she always does with hello kitty dolls? Cuz that’s totes normal. That is the mental fragility you freaks imprinted on with her. You’re weak nutcases like her. She even derisively calls you lambs. What fragile mental cases you are. No wonder you don’t like Madonna.

Longevity. Top 5 Biggest Grossing Artist of all Time. Selling Female Artist. Holds 3 positions out of the 12 highest grossing tours of all time...

What else should artists be ranked on?

But yeah, Madonna doesn't have much else to go on.

[quote]I wonder who is the real winner here: the person who has to tour to make money in the 70s, decrepit body and all, or the person who can sit back and allow their Christmas classic generate a significant income each year while only performing a few concerts.

One is estimated at being worth 300 - 500 Million... the other is estimated at 500 to 800 Million.

Madonna- #1 selling album and singles artist, #1 touring female, inducted into Rock Hall unanimously first year eligible, globally outperforms all females by miles yet she doesn’t have a Christmas song. Yeah that hurts.

Madonna considered one of the all time greats. Mariah Carey? A payola queen who has this Christmas song. Burn.

I should link to the praise Patrick Leonard heaped on her songwriting. Hint: he’s worked with some of the greatest songwriters of all time and ranks her in their league. As does David Foster, Niles Rodgers, Rick Knowles and many others. Niles said she is hands down the greatest artist he has worked with. Look who he’s worked with. This was early in her career. Yeah, you haters lose your shit over her.

R211 no need to pretend that there is more than one person going batshit insane about Madonna's place in music history.

Actually payola is interesting i read a book on it. A major era was the 50’s /60’s with a dj called alan freed (dick clark too but his career wasn’t ended by it) it went on into the 70’s (money, pussy, drugs , vacations , access to the stars) anyway at the start of the 80’s this perfect storm happened to the entertainment world : in 1979 there was a disco sucks rally that changed the radio landscape : over night radio that was wAll to wall disco tanked. Leaving huge debts for radio stations. Because this took the entertainment world by surprise there was nothing to replace it but country music & conservative talk radio (from am radio) even movies / fashion/ advertising were all in with disco & therefore out of money. At the sametime the teens of the 80’s didn’t mind older artists but wanted their own stars. Along comes MTV and a lot of the colorful british acts which disturbed the conservative & cash poor radio stations - they didn’t play them until the record companies began to payola again (eurythmics sweet dreams) . (Many mtv hits weren’t radio hits & vice versa) Other payola was older (70’s acts) that were once huge. & now kids didn’t want (carly simon jessie). Mtv was payola too ( they didn’t play black groups. Princes little red corvette was a payola video. One of the reasons there are only a few videos to thriller was fear they wouldn’t be played on mtv ) another post disco thing: girl voices were blamed for the disco movement & because of this only a few girl voices were allowed on the radio at the time. At first it was pat benatar, stevie , olivia. Then became madonna / whitney / janet . ) so in many ways we have these big named divas because other just as talented stars couldn’t get a place on the radio) also people like linda ronstadt & roberta flack dueted with popular male cocalists to get radio play & bands like heart pushed that male(ish) pop metal sound to compete. Some of the arguments to deregulate the fcc in 87 was because companies lost their shirts during the disco disaster. I found this all so interesting . One ex was sheena easton’s career. It is up when one of the big 3 didn’t have music out or down when they did & she often did duets with popular men. But there’s a lot of those examples Long winded but then I’m high & found it crazy that radio listeners were subjected to so much behind the scenes bullshit. Iheartradio really ran with all this - those conservative fucks - who really are clear channel renamed. While a gress roots hot can happen we only hear what they want us to

The Mariah Carey Stan has lost its mind and admitted it’s high. Like its fave. A druggie. Mariah Carey the payola queen.

Janet stans try to act like she did heavy metal!!! My sides. That no talent bitch never did heavy metal. That was rock lite. As her bro tried to do. Janet is laughable in rock circles. At least Madonna attempted ( admirably but fell short) to actually PLAY metal on guitar with Pantera’s A New Level. That’s how you attempt metal.

LMFAO, someone arguing Janbot did "heavy metal" with Black Cat is like someone saying Madonna did folk pop with American Life. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

R209, you do know what estimates are, right?

To the person asking why would Tommy help Mariah after their divorce...it's because she was the biggest name at Sony Records.Of course Tommy would use payola for her, the more money she made, the better it would be for Sony. Once she was out of Sony, that's when Tommy started to stab her in the back--J Lo can attest to that.

Yes, you do understand the point, right?

R215 is off its meds again, relax Kanye

R218 right she flopped until she found other ways to cheat. Billboard changed a thousand rules due to Mariah Carey.

Uhhhhhh.... so your point is that they could both be worth 500$ million....

R220 ho nobody cares about Janet 1993 called.

R221, I don't understand why billboard doesn't just base their chart strictly on sales. I didn't realize until a few years ago that there was a seperate chart for Hot 100 singles sales. And it surprised me to learn that Don't Tell Me, Die Another Day and (I think) Hung Up all were number one on the hot 100 sales chart but none of them came close to topping the charts because at the time, Madonna was not being played as much on the radio.

R222 You think Madonna is worth as much as Mariah Carey? Bwhahaha. One is a touring force the other can’t fill 4,000 seat high school gyms.

R223 , About 300,000 more people cared about janets last tour than they did about madonnas

R225 hey dummy, I’m using the figure provided by you, ya lunatic

[quote]Keep in mind Whitney's discography is much smaller than the others.

This is what those all-time sales lists fail to consider. In the time Whitney would release 2 studio albums, Madonna, Mariah, Celine would have had 3, 4, or even 5 in some cases.

But I like the clip at r54 shows Whitney was never really threatened by anyone. Even right to the end she was also kind and nurturing to the new generation of singers unlike Madonna who got in a feud with Lady Gaga!

R224 Because, in theory, radio stations play what’s in demand so songs getting a lot of airplay are or presumed to be ones the audience loves and the songs that get little or no traction aren’t well-liked. But that’s never been universally true in the history of radio and it’s become rapidly less and less true since the 80s.

R226, Janet hasn’t sold out a tour in decades. She could even sell out her Vegas residency. JanBt you’ve been schooled with the numbers repeatedly, so we know you know you’re lying.

Oh, so R225... you really didn't get the point.

Janet who sold 4-pack tickets for $17.99?

R225, Janet is like 10 years younger than Madonna. When Madonna was her age, she had the MDNA tour which was setting records. When was the last time a Janet tour actually set records? Rhythm Nation?

R228, If Whitney had released more material, there's no guaranteeing she would have sold much more, the public may have gotten sick of her the way they did of Madonna during the Sex Book era. Her spacing out her albums was a great strategy that helped prevent her from being overexposed. Ultimately, Madonna was always outselling Whitney except for The Bodybuard era and Waiting to Exhale.

But actually, someone would have to be really really stupid or demented to think Mariah would be worth more than Madonna.

Remember when Gaga went on stage at the Grammys to thank Whitney Houston after being accused of copying Madonna? That was obviously an intended dig because she knew about Madge’s insecurities about Whitney.

R230, no, please explain your point of providing Net worth “estimates” with numbers in the same range

2011.

At age 45, Janet resorts to playing State Fairs and Bankrupts the Iowa State Fair.

At age 54, Madonna's MDNA tour becomes one of the top 10 grossing tours of all time.

Facts.

R232 trying to bury the Madame x tour like it never happened

Artists from different generations should never become rivals because the younger one will always end up on top.

Oh, and Anita Baker’s voice and singing style was definitely unique, but in no way was she considered objectively better than Whitney Houston. The two were friends, btw.

R231, but she sold tickets, Madonna canceled a whole shit load of shows because the seats were empty

Madonna was 60-something when the Madame X tour happened. Janet was in her 40s when her tours starting bombing. Try again. Every single tour Madonna had until the Madame X Tour was a success. J

Since you're so dense, the point is mocking the stupid assertion that either are hurting for money and that one "needs" to tour to earn money.

Uh.. no she didn't sell tickets that's why they were you know.. GIVING THEM AWAY in 4-packs for $17.99.

And do you REALLY want to talk about who has a history of needing to cancel tours, HAHAHAHA.

Whitney was her only real competition as she was a much superior vocalist and consistently beat Madge in American record sells and the American music awards. Whitney was also a much bigger box office draw, and received better reviews from film critics. Obviously we all see whose career and music catalogue was more iconic. Madge wins overall.

R241 took you a while to spin it, but your brain is as dusty as madonnas aching bones. You should re read what you wrote and try again.

Keep trying it, Dusty at R244.

Whitney didn't consistently beat Madonna in American record sells. It was only between The Bodyguard and Waiting to Exhale eras that she did. When you take into account downloads, streaming and compilation sales, her debut, Like a Virgin and True Blue sold far more than Whitney's first 3 albums did.

Janet played Arenas for the State of the World Tour.

Madonna played Clubs.

Both tours earned 46 Million.

Lol she played clubs

Logic has never been Joseph's strong point.

Yet another thread on DL about a bunch of has-beens.

Cyndi Lauper was over pretty much instantly. Paula Abdul and Belinda Carlisle both had longer careers than her.

By the end of the decade I imagine Madonna was thinking about her about as much as the average person, i.e., not at all.

[quote]Whitney didn't consistently beat Madonna in American record sells. It was only between The Bodyguard and Waiting to Exhale eras that she did. When you take into account downloads, streaming and compilation sales, her debut, Like a Virgin and True Blue sold far more than Whitney's first 3 albums did.

U.S. Sales? What are you talking about? Whitney's debut album 'Whitney Houston' was the best selling album of 1986 (first time a woman topped the year-end album charts) and the best selling debut album ever. Sold more than each of both 'Like A Virgin' and 'True Blue'. Her 1987 album 'Whitney' outsold both the 'Who's that Girl' Soundtrack and Madonna's 1989 album 'Like A Prayer'. Madonna doesn't have an album on Billboard's all-time top 50. Whitney has 3.

Mariah has an incredibly weak catalog. Only die-hards could name more than 5 of her songs - one of them being that Christmas song.

Janet's is even weaker.

Adele has sold 61 million of her 3 albums One of them was the worlds best selling for 2 years in a row. Fuck all them other bitch.

Oh honey, Gagz is the GRAND EMPRESS of the insecure.

[quote] U.S. Sales? What are you talking about? Whitney's debut album 'Whitney Houston' was the best selling album of 1986 (first time a woman topped the year-end album charts) and the best selling debut album ever. Sold more than each of both 'Like A Virgin' and 'True Blue'. Her 1987 album 'Whitney' outsold both the 'Who's that Girl' Soundtrack and Madonna's 1989 album 'Like A Prayer'. Madonna doesn't have an album on Billboard's all-time top 50. Whitney has 3.

This isn't true. You have to remember the Immaculate collection slaughtered Madonna's album sales. Many times, compilation sales completely cannibalize an artist sales so it can make the sales of the original albums seem much lower. This is the case with Madonna. Her albums were selling very well until she released that album.

r257. You can't deny that Whitney's debut album outsold both Like A Virgin and True Blue. And Whitney second album outsold both True Blue and Like A Prayer. It's verifiable fact. This was during Whitney's record run of seven consecutive number one singles.

And your link, r257 is for worlwide sales.

R258/R259, I know it is. But did you see how much higher Like a Virgin and True Blue were on that list? There is simply no way those albums would be that high without her American sales--they weren't just hits in the rest of the world. Simply put, even in America, when you take into additional sales generated by compilations AND singles sales, Madonna LAV outsold Whitney's debut, True Blue outsold Whitney and Like a Prayer outsold I'm your Baby Tonight. The sales of Madonna's 80s albums look much lower because TIC completely cannibalized her 80s album sales. Those albums really were selling strongly until she released that album. TIC sold an additional 12 million copies in America--that's huge. Whitney didn't release a compilation album long until her peak ended so her original albums continued to sell into the 90s.

If you asked a member of the general public to name five Janet songs what would they say?

[quote] If you asked a member of the general public to name five Janet songs what would they say?

Nipple, nipple, nipple, nippple and nipple.

[quote] If you asked a member of the general public to name five Janet songs what would they say?

And of course, the answer is they couldn't. And I like Janet. But none of her songs is well remembered by the general public. Janbot will claim differently though.

R261 they would say why? We’re not fags on dl

Lipstick Alley has arrived!

Great, the poster who hates "old white gay men" will now troll this thread.

R22 - that Mariah video is hilarious - she serves Miss Piggy realness from the neck down!

I love Mariah's dual-edged hyper-sensitivity to her image (only show her left side) AND a complete lack of awareness with how stuffed and desperate she looks in those outfits even hookers think are distasteful.

You're not making sense, 260. When was the Immaculate Collection released? 1990. How did it affect sales of albums released between 1984 and 1989? Also, what was the best selling album, by any artiste in 1986? Whitney's debut. How did Madonna outsell the best-selling debut album of all time? C'mon.

R268, You aren't listening to what I'm saying. Wjhitney's debut did not sell 13 million copies overnight--it sold that over time, much of it in the 90s. Same with Madonna's albums. Madonna's LAV sold 5 million in its original run and then continued to sell until the TIC ws released. It was the first album by a female to sell that much. Had TIC not been released, Madonna's 80 albums would have continued to sell. But TIC cannibalized her own album sales--a lot.

[quote] How did it affect sales of albums released between 1984 and 1989?

These lbillboard "yeard end" lists also are only for the exact year they are released. Rhythm Nation is not the best sellling album of 1990 anymore--TIC and MC Hammer's horrible album both sold far more than that album in subsequent years.

I fart very loudly due to this thread.

Good grief, you are all children. Time to grow up.

R271 I was fingering my hole over all these played out pop singers. My hole i tell ya

Hey

Yes, TIC did kill sales for Madonna, LAV, TB, and LAP. They were selling at higher rates than Whitney until the release of TIC. Ask Keith Caufield from Billboard. Seriously, email him. He’ll tell you Madonna was out selling Whitney by a lot in the 80s. Had Madonna not released TIC, her 80s albums would have out sold all Whitney albums by far.

Madame X tour was very successful. Look at her per date attendance and earnings. She was raking in the money at 100% attendance per Boxscore. Numbers don’t lie. Divide seating capacity by total earned and you’ll see there were very few comps. The reviews were all 4 or 5 stars with most saying it was one of her best. These are facts. Cancellations happened due to her knee injury. Madonna haters have to lie to slam her.

R268, Whitney sold the most records *in 1986*, but Madonna has far surpassed her since then. The only Whitney album that has sold more than any Madonna album is the Bodyguard soundtrack.

Whitney and Mariah never had a concert tour gross over $100 million. Not even close. There was never a big demand to see them perform. Tina Turner was a much bigger star and her tours grossed over $100 million.

Tina Turner was HUGE in the 80s and 90s, internationally. South America, North America, Europe and Asia, she played stadiums in many countries to sell-out crowds. And her music was fabulous, too.

Private Dancer is one of the best albums to come out of the 80s.

I think she hated Sharon Stone. Madonna wanted her role in “Basic Instinct”.

Tina Turner looks better at 80 and post cancer than Vadge looked at any age.

We loved Madonna in "Swept Away"

R246, ALL of Whitney's 80s albums outsold Madonna back then. Even if by small margins. And she would beat her every time at the American music awards and Grammy's. Keep in mind, America votes for the AMA's. They both were insanely popular, but Whitney was the beautiful girl next door who was more well liked by the general public.

But Madonna is still the best-selling female artist of all time, the only woman in the top 10.

What really amazes me is that Led Zeppelin and Nirvana are also in the top 10, when they didn't have nearly as many studio albums as a ton of other artists did, and were only together for a few short years.

R278, According to a certain DL loon, Madge was offered the role but turned it down.

R275 thinks making up stuff will change facts. American sales easy to verify. Whitney had only two albums in the 80s and both outsold every Madonna album from that period. It was only until 1990 when moved away from pop to R&B with her third album, I’m Your Baby Tonight that a corresponding Madonna album outsold Whitney in the US.

It makes sense that Whitney would outsell Madonna - Whitney had more cross-over appeal. My mom bought her albums for god's sake.

Julia Roberts

I can't believe this old whore generates so many responses

Facts? FACTS?

hahahaha

Janet SLAYS

Madonna DECAYS

And Janbot has entered the thread.

Madonna yelling "Sharon Stone!" during a performance with Anthony Kiedis. She was a bit obsessed.

face it darlings : you janet bots & whitney whores & madonna sluts and mariah cunts are all waxing nostalgic for a time so long ago & forgotten. All of you are old. I mean middle age old & three of the above chicks are old & one is dead. It’s been fun watching this go around in a daisy chain of selfsucking for days now that the only thing left is to discuss who has the best pubic bush or which gave the best head on or off tour. Aren’t ya’ll ready to create a new , equally stupid & unimportant thread about janet’s damita jo album or madonna’s fourth single from ray of light or mariah’s unforgettable album caution or whitney’s recording of my name is not susan?

R292 = LOL

Modern pop tarts like Dua Lipa and Ariana aren't all that, r292. At least the ones from the 80s and 90s were somewhat interesting. And you still hear their music today. I doubt anyone will even know who Lipa or Ariana are, three decades from now.

R284 it's not making up facts to note that Madonna's sales over time surpassed Whitney's. It is totally misleading to only talk about American sales within a specific time period when we're talking about worldwide sales overall, though.

Or are you really so stupid you think people stop buying albums or the industry stops counting sales after their initial run?

Of all the above mentioned acts, Cher is the only one still filling arenas.

R295 Everyone’s moved onto the kylie minogue thread. This one’s over

[quote]Of all the above mentioned acts, Cher is the only one still filling arenas.

^^Wrong, R296. Stevie Nicks' solo 2016-2017 24 KARAT GOLD Tour filled and sold out arenas all over the United States. It was a huge success!

R10 Also, Evita and The People Vs. Larry Flynt came out the same year, so Love stole some of her thunder by turning in an acclaimed performance.

Where is Stevie Nicks mentioned here except for your input?

Madonna: "They can't do what I do".

She was obsessed. Whitney was living rent-free in Madonna's mind.

Totally. So obsessed she would have probably started countless threads on Whitney if she could have.

I do hate the way Madonna performed "Material Girl" on her Who's That Girl and Blond Ambition tours. I know she was trying to be ironic singing it that way or what the fuck ever, but really it was just obnoxious, annoying and horrid. The audience should have booed her every time she pulled that crap and demanded her to sing the song properly. I can't imagine Mariah, Whitney, or anybody else really, sing THAT bad on purpose.

I liked the way she sang it on The Virgin tour.