White people who love going to national parks: fuck off, you self-segregating racists, says ABC

How do you make the national parks palatable to black people then?

Wtf, ABC?!

The world is over white people.

No one is stopping POC from going to national parks.

Are people lining up to sit in some hotbox entrance booth with no air conditioning and deal with endless Karens all day?

POC get looked at funny when going to National Parks

"There's work that needs to be done,"

How? Are you going to replace all the signs in English for Spanish and then pay for their gas, gear, and entrance fee? And that's if they even WANT to go. Maybe the reason why the majority of POC don't attend national parks is because they're just not that interested. Ever thought of that?

What a weird article

Remember when Oprah went camping? POC just aren't into this shit.

Tedious. Tiresome.

*Black people who love going to domino tournaments: fuck off, you self-segregating racists, says ABC

As a white person who enjoys the outdoors, it honestly never crossed my mind to go to a national park so I could “self-segregate.”

Interesting that they use a capital 'B' for 'Black', but poor old whitey just gets a small-w 'white'. Should I be offended at this microaggression?

Black people aren’t safe in the woods. This is why they hate it. There is a long history of black people being killed in the woods.

What is going on with the media?

All I hear about now is that all white people are racist. CNN, ABC, MSNBC, are all saying that all white people are racist. How is this journalism? I really thought that OP was trolling because this sounds like a satire article. But no, it's real, very real.

This problem sounds less like institutional racism and more like the national parks trying to drum up business in the face of their biggest demographic going extinct. And yet, the fact that the acting director of a national park service would scapegoat white people for POC's lack of attendance is really, really odd.

Black people are not all POC, R14. How do you explain Latinos who don't go to national parks?

Next up: Skiing, water polo and grand opera.

SJW really reaching for something to write about.

The only POC I’m not a fan of at parks are the busloads of Chinese tourists. Every experience with that has been nightmarish due to en masse disrespect and disregard for everyone else.

White people: Exist

POC: That's racist!

I think it depends on the location of the national park. Are POCs going to drive to Wyoming or Idaho or Montana when they dont live close to there but white people do? I would think places like that are a lot more segregated than somewhere say, Yosemite.

On the other hand, I married into a large Mexican family and they love hiking, camping, boating, horseback riding and take full advantage of California’s national parks.

R16 They rather go to Disneyland.

The Congressional Black Caucus has offered to make inroads on this problem by distributing kente scarves to the buffalo.

R3 Certainly not you though, fattie / a you fall in love with a white man on tiktok every damn day.

So what are we supposed to do, round-up blacks on the weekend and forcibly bus them to national parks, or offer them free vacations? Nothing is keeping them out except their own lack of interest.

"Disneyland's sort of a park, ain't it?"

This has to be the dumbest claim of racism yet, and that's saying something.

R6 If they look like YOU then yes...

[quote]Advocates like Williams and Tariq say they hope the moment since George Floyd's death in police custody brings attention to systemic racism in the outdoors as well as other parts of society and translates into a long-term change in attitudes and behavior.

Oh for fuck sake. Fucking going to the park, black people. If anyone tries to stop you from entering, THEN say something. That's not what this is.

I don't even understand this story. This is just a fucking stupid story and I would like to throw the writer off a cliff for attempting to conflate actual, pro-active segregation with black people just not going to National Parks. They're not being barred.

[quote] The only POC I’m not a fan of at parks are the busloads of Chinese tourists.

Any POC who ruin the narrative shall be disregarded.

[quote]"The outdoors and public lands suffer from the same systemic racism that the rest of our society does,"

This is right up there among the silliest virtue signalling stupid comments out there right now.

There is absolutely NOTHING stopping someone from going to a national park if he wants to go. NOTHING, except personal preference.

[quote]Historically, in the South, in particular, many atrocious things that happened to Black people were in the woods

Yeah, I can't imagine why Black (sorry, not sorry @R13) people wouldn't feel like going camping. That said, this is an issue that will dissipate as we move toward a more equal union. It's pretty self-evident that if you want people to be treated fairly, treat them fairly.

Call out the creator of this piece and the producers that approved it for race baiting.

What should whites "encourage" blacks to do next? Eat mayonnaise sandwiches on white bread? Country line dance? Attend tractor pulls and demolition derbies?

Is the idea here that everybody needs to be exactly the same as everyone else? Because that doesn't seem terribly progressive to me.

If anything, this story treats black people like they're children who don't know that they have every fucking right to be at these places.

It's outrageous claims of racism like this that makes me think Trump will will a second term.

R33 swim

If this is a real problem, how would you remedy this?

Wealthy/well off people go to national parks to experience the outdoors. Poor people work outdoors. It's not relaxing to be outdoors if that's where you work all the time.

R38 that's definitely part of it. Or, like my community, we live in the country, with plenty of woods. I really don't believe their statistics either -- 42% are POC? Since when? Any other time they cited whites as 70-80% of the US, which aligns perfectly with 77% of park goers being white. (I just looked it up, whites are 76 5%)

Come to think of it, there was criticism of the Lake District for this reason last year.

[quote] As a white person who enjoys the outdoors, it honestly never crossed my mind to go to a national park so I could “self-segregate.”

Same, I go for fresh air, scenery, exercise, etc. Not as some F-U to black people. This article is dumb. Its more about socio-economic status and access to parks, I'm upper middle class and can afford the gas and time to travel to parks. If you are poor and working all the time, that's much harder to do.

[quote] Poor people work outdoors.

Is that really true though? Half of the working poor people probably work indoors in retail shops, restaurants, manufacturing plants, distribution centers, etc.

does the article mention the racist lake that ate Naya

LOL R43

National parks are almost always in rural areas of course. POC live in disproportionately higher-density areas like cities.

It takes a lot of effort and money to get up and go to these places, which are probably not the highest on your list of things to do for vacation.

California parks have all types of visitors.

This is such a bullshit article. You couldn't drag me to a national park on my vacation. Tents, bugs, mosquitos, poor shower facilities - what's to like? My idea of HELL.

Btw - I'd like to know what the gay percentage of visitors is. If it is low, are national parks now anti-gay?

What, so Asians are not POC now? Because Asians love to go to these parks and nature reserve places, camping too. Every time I go to these areas I always see many Asian families walking, hiking, or doing activities with their families.

So now people who go to these places are supposed to feel guilty about being racists or contributing to racist culture? Fuck this shit, this is why it's so fucking easy to make fun of these reaching woke types who see racism where there is none. There is real racism in the world and it's not going to be helped by woke assholes like NYT writers who spew this kind of bullshit.

Map of US National Parks. Look where they fucking are. How many POC from the East, Midwest and South are going to travel 2,000 miles to go to where most of these parks are?

Seriously, they can't be serious!

I don't think this is a thing.

This shit is getting ridiculous

R42 I'm not the person that mentioned that initially, but as someone that grew up poorer and still isn't well off -- camping/ parks can suck. If you don't have a lot of expendable money, that means tent camping, with all the hassal that comes with. Also, being poorer is somewhat like camping at times (the foods, lack of utilities, and so on.)

I find it weird to focus on such a specific thing like national parks, instead of maybe pointing out the struggle of getting away at all -- the little to no vacation time, lack of funds, cost of travel, expenses while on vacation (food), the obvious lack of POC in general at resorts, hotels, going abroad, and so on.

Guess it was a step to far to get into how poverty can be a bummer overall, or how there's too many crap jobs with stagnate wages, no time off, and whatever else people don't get to experience because money.

R16 Are Ricky Martin and Shakira POC?

R47, national parks can be quite a jaunt. If people only have two days off, they're probably not going to drive for hours just to spend a little more than a day there.

I bet national forests -- usually abutting or closer to large cities -- have way more diverse representation. I know the Angeles National Forest right outside LA does.

Understand one thing - this is someone attempting to create something that isn't a thing as R48 said. This is where journalism fails. They try to make this into some widespread belief because they quote a few people.

It's horseshit.

Camping, even tent camping, isn't cheap, and a lot of people, especially those in cities don't have tents or the room to store them. Tents, camping stoves, sleeping bags, air-mattresses and all the other camping related necessities take up a lot of room. Lots of people in cities don't have cars, so accessibility to these parks is also a barrier.

White people have always been an outdoorsy race.

I've noticed my black friends are never into "hiking".

Hiking is definitely a white people thing.

Hiking is RACIST!

Black guy here.

I don't like camping or hiking. I don't understand it and think it's dumb. But I am only one black guy, I'm sure there are many black people who get off on those activities. I do, however, enjoy boating, fishing, going to the beach, dining al fresco, and outdoor garden/cocktail parties.

And for the record, ABC clearly has too much time on their hands. What a nonsense story.

[quote] tent camping isn't cheap,

It's the cheapest way to travel/survive from the elements. That's why there are homeless in tent encampments in cities.

"Williams said she adjusts her behavior in parks and public spaces, smiling or moving aside on a trail to let white visitors pass even though she's disabled and walks with a crutch. She called it an ingrained behavior to avoid any negative connotation with being a Black person in a predominantly white space."

Well then that's on you, you stupid bitch. You're moderating your own behavior based on some inferiority/ superiority dynamics that you're not even defining. Maybe you're letting others pass because you walk with a crutch? That would make more sense other than a feeling of inferiority based upon race. And if it is racially-based, then it's all on you because you're the one looking at white visitors and automatically kowtowing to them for no reason.

Add Obama to Mt. Rushmore?

Obama was a disappointment, he spoke a big game but in the end was just too cozy with big corporations to fight for real change in many areas. Did not go far enough with healthcare reform and should have fought for universal health insurance.

Back to white people and national parks. This type of overreaching is sign of things to come. It seems like the goal is to get everyone white, white-adjacent (which apparently includes Asians now) to cop to being racist both individually and as a group in order to facilitate the narrative of perpetual black victimhood.

Going to National Parks is a very white thing. Whiter than, say, a National Public Radio tote bag. The numbers seem slightly off or not very tidy, due probably to the way the US Census classifies "Race and Hispanic Origin" and trying to translate that into the non-Census category People Of Color. Still they point to a real disparity.

The National Parks -- the wilderness ones, not the national historic sites which should have different statistics-- are typically removed from population centers. National Historic Monuments, however, are better distributed across the country and especially in cities and also in the East Coast, the better to attract people who don't have a family tradition of camping and RVs and driving 2000 miles to see a geyser (none of which appeal to me.)

For a lot of reasons I agree that the Park Ranger uniforms should be more modern and look less like police/military uniforms. An historian with a Ph.D. giving a talk about the history of the landscape preservation movement at Yosemite or about immigration at Governor's Island or the Statue of Liberty shouldn't have to dress like he or she is the deputy of some time forgotten Southern speedtrap. A lot of the interpretation of historical sites has a lot of minority focus and seeks to place all Americans in the picture of its history at different points and places; the NPS has been cognizant of minorities not being represented in history, or being misrepresented for many years; it's one of the these they have done well and have sought to improve continuously.

The NPS has always been two unequal parts, one about "parks" the other about "history," with the former, the favorite child, getting the lion's share of attention though it is the area that seems to serve minority populations less. The old idea of Smokey Bear and Sunset Magazine holidays with a massive camper behind a station wagon and park rangers with buzz haircuts dressed like a drab version of the Canadian Mounties and 2000+ mile roadtrips, yeah, they would do well to think about the future of site visitation and messages.

It's not a case of "white people stay home" it's a case of doing a better job of making the parks and sites an asset for all Americans.

the thing is they’ll bring portable grills and have family cook-pots in the parks, with boom boxes blasting loud beats. People don’t love that

Hispanics love going to parks, are they only considered POC when it suits the narrative.

Most people who commented here, are absolutely correct.

The writer is just spouting bullshit.

This isn't about self-segregating or being racist. It's more about proximity.

The US national parks are in isolated areas that are hard to reach, and quite costly. It would cost a family of four at least $5000 for a trip to a national park, assuming that you don't live in the area. Even if you did a road trip, it would still cost a lot of money, not to mention all the vacation time.

Many POC live paycheck to paycheck, and can't afford the luxury of a week long trip to the middle of nowhere.

And to be honest, when they do take trips (from my experience), they would much rather go to places like Vegas.

Also, POC who make a lot of money are going to Europe and traveling to exotic places around the world, and not going to national parks. Watch Below Deck Mediterranean. They've had numerous guests who are either black or asian, and they were chartering yachts in Spain, Italy, and France.

As for AA's and Latinos who are in the middle class, I've seen them on cruises, in Vegas, and taking city trips to popular destinations.

Honestly, camping or hiking in the wilderness just isn't their thing.

Have you ever watched the Real Housewives of Atlanta or Potomac? Most of those ladies are HIGH MAINTENANCE. They take hours doing their hair, they don't like to be hot and sweaty, they don't want to go in the water, and they don't want to be around bugs. They want a comfortable hotel room with room service and drinks.

Now mind you, this is not to say that black people or latinos don't "do" the outdoors. If you've ever been to Africa, Central or South America, or Asia, all they DO is the outdoors. African grasslands, high mountain areas of Kenya and Tanzania, deserts of Namibia, steppe and grasslands of Southern Africa.

Same for Asia and Latin America. The majority of the people there are rural dwellers who live in and around nature.

So it's not to say that POC don't do the outdoors. It's just that I think American POC much more enjoy modern conveniences, over nature.

At most, I'd say they would do a backyard barbecue, which I see all over California, Nevada, and Arizona. Anything more than that is an inconvenience, and would get a "HELL no!"

I see tons of Latino families fishing, camping and BBQing at national parks. I think this article is Bullshit

[quote] Historically, in the South, in particular, many atrocious things that happened to Black people were in the woods

And, yet I know many Black people in the rural South who enjoy the woods. They like to hunt, fish, and camp just like the White people. The problem is that now the majority of Black people live in the city and have lost their connection to the land, just like most White urban and suburban people.

The biggest problem is where the parks are located. The majority of parks are in states and areas without large Black populations. I've only been to two National Parks myself, because there aren't many near me. Every time I've visited South Carolina's only one, Congaree National Park, there are a great many Black people there, because the area around the park is a largely Black area. I don't see as many, as a percentage in The Great Smoky Mountains National Park, but they are far from being unrepresented. It is difficult to determine visitation information for both of those parks, since unlike some Western ones they are free to enter. You can hike or visit without talking to or interacting with a ranger.

This article is not talking about Latinos R66, even if the writer pretends that he is...

In California they make over 40% of the visitors to National Parks, hardly a minority.

R68 Then the author should specify African-Americans. I also doubt Native Americans are part of the group he is talking about.

R69 That is the problem of using the term People of Color(POC), just like saying LGBT+ when you are only talking about one part of term.

Racism has become the new brand du jour. "Come on down, we're rasict!" This should be offensive to minorities, being patronized & catered to as if they're whiney children. Information about & directions to any nation park are posted online and are as easily accessible to ANYONE who chooses to pay a visit. If someone doesn't wish to go because of some irrational & outdated concern, then that's their problem to sort out, not the rest of society's. It's time to start including yourself if you wanna be included. "SOME RACIST WENT TO YOSEMITE & ALL I GOT WAS THIS RACIST T-SHIRT!" Fucking hell. Someone actually got paid to write this paranoia spreading editorial.

What's next, symphonies and classical music in general are racist because it's full of white and Asian musicians?

I like all people equally.

I agree R73 dark or white meat taste good to me

R72 According to The Washington Post it is.

Lol, jesus, we've entered the realm of the fucking ridiculous.

East Asian people are generally not so outdoorsy either, especially the older generation.

I work with some black girls. They are not interested in the outdoors. They like Vegas and cruises. They lay by the pool but do not get in. They do not camp. Lots of white girls are like this too. As far as black men, I dont know a lot who are interested in skiing or scuba diving. One of them said their sense of self preservation is strong and that crazy shit is for white people.

I find most of my black friends prefer more bougie options when it comes to R&R and the times I’ve suggested camping it was a definite NO.

I don’t think camping is high on the list, and expecting them to go camping more in the name of diversity.Is dumb. People should do what they like, and if they don’t, it doesn’t automatically mean they are being intentionally excluded or discriminated against.

"New government data, shared first with ABC News, shows the country's premier outdoor spaces -- the 419 national parks -- remain overwhelmingly white. Just 23% of visitors to the parks were people of color:

Huh? This seems like a non-story. Non-hispanic whites are around 61% of the population. So, yes, the percentage of non-whites going to the parks are lower than their percentage of the population - but 23% still seems like a healthy percentage - especially when you consider that a lot of these parks are in really white areas - especially all the Western parks. Black of Latino people not wanting to drive through Trump era red states to get to rural Wyoming (for example) is hardly surprising.

R77 Really? What an ignorant thing to say. Do you actually know any East Asian people? Because Japanese and Taiwanese people in their native countries are known for love of hiking, camping, and related outdoor activities. Tons of national parks, trails, beaches, and reserve areas there that native population use as much as tourists. The immigrant Taiwanese families that I know are also big on hiking and camping.

More people should camp during these times. It's a helluva lot safer than going to a casino in Las F'ing Vegas during covid.

[quote] I really don't believe their statistics either -- 42% are POC? Since when? Any other time they cited whites as 70-80% of the US, which aligns perfectly with 77% of park goers being white. (I just looked it up, whites are 76 5%)

42% is probably about right. 2019 figures show 37% are non white.

Are Hispanic Whites "white" under any circumstances. They can look really white, but does being "Hispanic" make it a no go? Lol.

What is the percentage of white people including Hispanic whites?

[quote]White people have always been an outdoorsy race.

Say what now?

Census 2019:

White (non-Hispanic) 63%

Black 13%

Asian 5.9%

Native-American/Alaskan-Native 1.3%

Native Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders 0.2%

two or more races (non-Hispanic) 2.7%

My black friends have no interest in camping or campgrounds. It's not much about being around white people, they don't like the activity.

R84 I think that is part of the push of the term POC, they don't want White Hispanics to be considered White, as previous immigrant groups have, because it would keep the country majority "White" longer. Even though the history of seeing Hispanics as a separate race isn't as well established as with Black people. Just look at I Love Lucy, there were some concerns, but the show wasn't banned and became beloved across the country. Desi was seen as being a White Hispanic. It wasn't until 1968 that US TV could show a Black/White kiss, and even then the episode of Star Trek was banned in many places, and they had to make them be under mind control.

There was a girl in one of my college classes, you became very militant about being Hispanic and NOT WHITE. The thing was that while her family came from Mexico, she was milky white with blond hair and spoke English with a Southern drawl. She was White, whether she wanted to acknowledge it or not.

The author, I’m guessing, is a confirmed camper.

Honestly, these complain-y type of articles don't accomplish very much. There are lots of outreach and outdoors organizations which have already been focusing on this very issue for years -- of trying to acquaint urban youth and disadvantaged communities with nature and make it more accessible. The authors' time is better spent volunteering her time and resources there.

National Parks and the wilderness aren't safe. The animals aren't safe, the landscape isn't safe, the other people aren't safe. Any one of those things can kill you in a national park, if you're unlucky or careless.

So go or don't go to the wild National Parks as you see fit, but don't expect other people to make it safe and welcoming for you. It's not their job, and any appearance of safety or welcome in the wilderness is an illusion anyway. The Great Outdoors is no place for weenies, or people who expect to be coddled.

R91 - agreed. As everyone has mentioned, the national parks are remote. You have to intend to spend at least an overnight once you get there.

When you add up park entrance fees ($30-$35 per vehicle), then overnight fees (it's common for $50-$70 per night in CA for a campsite), then add in all the equipment you have to purchase, it's not really THAT cheap unless you do it often and stay for an extended period.

If you start to add in gas, food and time, staying overnight in a national park is only marginally less expensive than a budget hotel.

You could not pay me enough to do this for ONE night, and my partner has a small Airstream that we can use.

There is a lot of stuff that white people do that black people have zero interest in doing. It's called self preservation and strong survival instincts. Being black in America is adventurous enough.

It’s like swimming.

Why do people make it sound like national parks and camping are like some super expensive activities that rich white people do? Lower and middle income families do these things because it’s hell of a lot cheaper than taking Disneyland trip with hotel and dining costs. Once you have the equipment you’re good for years. You take the family out there and don’t have to worry about dining out and hotel costs. The park fees are minuscule in comparison.

Serve fried Chicken, Kool-Aid and watermelon at the snack bar. Then they'll come.

It's not like swimming R94. Black people not swimming is a direct result of racism and segregation. And even today pools and beaches are often quite segregated.

Forced bussing, R37.

SJWbabble. Wokesters are our Trumpkins.

"And even today pools and beaches are often quite segregated. "

WTF? Where the hell do you live that the beaches and pools are segregated?

Watermelon and fried chicken are the worst food combo. You’ve got watermelon with mostly water and fiber. Then mix in protein cooked in oil. Now your GI system has to digest all that oil and protein that’s diluted by water making the gastric acids less efficient at breaking down the difficult to digest animal protein and grease.

[quote] Where the hell do you live that the beaches and pools are segregated?

It’s a real place, but you need a time machine to get there.

[quote]WTF? Where the hell do you live that the beaches and pools are segregated?

I live in the real world and have two eyes.

And white people lose their minds over fried chicken and watermelon, yet you all still push that meme about black people.

R95 - it's not that cheap. We're talking about the National Parks exclusively. You have to make a certain amount of investment in equipment before you go.

And if you go for an overnight on a weekend, it's going to cost you $150-$160 with gas, entrance fee and campsite fee. $70 for gas (if you're driving 300 miles), $35 for entrance fee, and $50-60 for campsite. Without equipment.

But that's not really the point here - as many have stated, there are tons of Latino families in CA state parks. It's the presumption that the national parks are somehow not welcoming to POCs.

Speaking of parks, I see many Asians and Latinos at the local state parks, but I rarely see African-Americans there. The Latinos I see are definitely working class, speaking only Spanish. The parks are close by and cost little to enter. It’s not clear why there aren’t African-Americans there, unless it’s a transportation issue. I see many A-As at city parks that they can walk to.

R104 is right. The visitation rates of POC has more to do with cost and location than NPS marketing. Most POC live in/around big cities while the nearest National Parks can be hundreds of miles away. So that requires a car. Then there are entrance fees, parking fees and camping fees - which vary from park to park - but can add up.

There are definitely Black outdoorsey types. When I lived in Atlanta, I used to to camp and hike a lot in greater Georgia, NC, Tennessee - mostly state parks and nature areas, but a few national parks as well. I saw Black people regularly. Not a ton, but they were there consistently. Some looked hardcore; others looked like they were there on a day trip. Maybe they just generally keep it closer to home. And, a bigger percentage of their population just isn't into it - which is totally fine.

R97 - Low swim rates for Black Americans has more to do with lack of money and lack of access than racism. I live in NYC and for the population, we have a relatively low amount of pools. There are pools and swim lessons at YMCAs and such but they can be costly and availability is limited.

[quote] Why do people make it sound like national parks and camping are like some super expensive activities that rich white people do?

Exactly. Somebody on another thread implied that backpacking was some hoity-toity, 1% activity. Lots of misinformation about camping still around I guess.

A campsite fee probably averages $20 at most for an entire family. Compare that to any 'cheap' motel/hotel in America -- which, are there any even under $100 anymore? People probably spend more on an average trip to Walmart or Costco than an entire weekend of camping would cost.

Black people prefer concrete under their feet.

I'm sorry, but I just can't picture a lot of African Americans with a space set aside in the garage for tents, camping gear, LL Bean, and RV's.

I just can't.

In this country, AA's have very different interests. I don't think it's a stereotype to say that the men enjoy outdoor sports, making music, etc. And females enjoy getting their nails done and shopping for clothes. None of these things suggest that they would also like going to a National Park.

In fact, they are somewhat polar opposites.

For whatever reasons - and I'm sure there are many - AA's prefer city life and less "adventurous" activities. And that's fine.

Suggesting that racism somehow plays into this, is ludicrous. And I'm sure that African Americans would be the first to tell you this.

A lot of people in this thread are being willfully ignorant, but at least most rational people are attempting to be better these days.

When I lived in Washington, DC, I volunteered with a Sierra Club program that took inner city kids to various national and state parks in the region for hiking and picnics. These kids lived so close to some of the best parks in the country, but visiting them took a backseat to surviving. And of course when we showed up places with the kids, they got dirty looks for doing the same shit white kids would do.

Most of the citizens of DC and the surrounding region are minorities. I don't know exactly what kind of historical campaigns were waged to discourage non-whites from visotong parks, but even in 2020 you can go to Great Falls or Shenandoah and not see many black people. Things are changing, but I do think there needs to be an effort to actively encourage everyone to take advantage of the national park system.

Oprah and Gayle addressed this 10 years ago.

I will agree that this is a shit article. This is what black people mean about not having the same conversations. Can we get some justice for people who are lynched in the woods, or those churches that were burned in Louisiana last year??? I digress...

FWIW, I like being outdoors and am about to try camping for the first time soon. Black people really aren't into it like that. Especially the urban kind. It really is that simple.

It’s a great place to smoke a joint & drink some beer!

White people who love going to tanning salons: fuck off, you self-segregating racists, says ABC

There are several reasons. Most black people can't swim. They also avoid the sun to not get too dark. Very few fast food places inside National Parks, so what will they eat to maintain diabetes?

R117, I'm sure you meant well, but you're pretty clueless.

As a black person just let me be very clear to woke white people and millennials and GenZers. Not everything is racism. Silly articles about so called racism in national parks and the lack of black people camping and hiking does nothing about police reforms. Stay focused FFS.

[quote] Silly articles about so called racism in national parks and the lack of black people camping and hiking does nothing about police reforms. Stay focused FFS.

Totally agree, R119.

It actually does the movement a dis-service.

I don't know if it's a concerted effort to undermine the BLM protests, or SJW's just being over eager, but it's not a good thing.

As you said, stick to the issues that really matter. Police brutality, voter suppression, wealth disparity, health care issues during the pandemic, and important things like that.

This National Park bullshit is absolutely ridiculous.

I keep seeing loads of articles about everything except preventing unarmed police shootings.

It might be a parody?

If you have black friends then you’d know that being in the outdoors and wilderness for long periods of time is not good for their skin. Black people need lots of lotions on their skin which they have to apply throughout the day. This is to prevent ashiness. I took a black friend from college camping one time in Tahoe. She brought along 4 types of lotions which she said was normal. Then when it came time to hike and put bug repellent on, it was just a big mess. The lotion interfered with the repellent or the bugs were attracted to her lotion. She ended up with bites all over exposed skin.

So I think there’s a reason too that some black people don’t take to the wilderness

[quote]So I think there’s a reason too that some black people don’t take to the wilderness

Even in Africa?

No R124 unless you don’t know the difference in lifestyle between Africans in Africa and black Americans. Do you even have any black friends?

Do you, R125?

As someone mentioned above I too have had bad experiences of Chinese tourists being rude, disrespectful and pushy.

Japanese tourists are usually pretty polite.

R126 I’d engage in more conversation with you if you weren’t such a troll and a bad one at that. Now piss off.

I'll take that as a no. I can't imagine anyone black wanting to be friends with someone who would only use them as a prop to win an argument or an election.

R127 Chinese tourists go to these parks to walk around and take photos. They don’t go there to hike or camp. I’m talking about mainland Chinese. These Chinese tour groups tend to go to more urban or flashy places where they can buy expensive goods. Nature areas don’t offer that.

R130/ R126 is talking to herself/ himself, a reaching troll without any friends, black or any other color.

I was in Schonbrunn Palace last year and the Chinese tourists kept talking over the tour guide, pushing past to get to the front and getting told off for repeatedly taking photos. Same in galleries in Florence and Prague where they blocked views of major works by standing right in front od them.

R132 is a racist trying to compensate for his own racism by projecting it onto others.

I’d like to think that I keep track of genuinely racist behavior and this article is reaching so hard they’re going to herniate themselves.

I would imagine black people who want to camp go camping and the ones that don’t, don't. Crazily, I feel like they can make their own decisions when it comes to their vacations like, you know, all people with free will.

R103 That's obviously a troll. You really gotta learn to just ignore people and not react, not everything is so damn personal. Some people are just equal opportunity assholes.

Wow, some of the racist fried chicken comments and stereotypes on this thread are really off the hook.

[quote] racist fried chicken

Everybody needs a little RFC

[quote]And white people lose their minds over fried chicken and watermelon, yet you all still push that meme about black people.

So true! I'm white and white people probably love fried chicken and watermelon even more than black people. I have no idea how that got to be such a stereotype about blacks, because whites consume so much more of it.

R137 You're giving the troll exactly what it wants: attention. Good job.

I brought fried chicken to a party once and a black man asked me for it. What was I supposed to do, say no?

R112 what were they doing to get bad looks. My mostly white honors trip was kicked out of the Jefferson Memorial because we were playing cards while waiting for a storm to pass.

Thank you, R112. I was beginning to think this whole thread was a parody of racist reaction, as though most posters here (and judging by the W&Ws, everyone) were taking a reverse psychology approach to make a point... and then I realised most are being serious. It's as though they can't see that 400 years of experience has shaped Black thinking in ways that white people can't understand. (Full disclosure: I'm white. I don't pretend to understand the experiences of Black people, but I have something lacking in abundance in Trump's America: empathy.)

I particularly enjoyed R47's attempt at gaslighting the entire thread: posting a map of the most frequently attended National Parks as [italic]the[/italic] map of the park system. Here's a hint: most people live within a few miles of a park. It might not be on the caliber of Yellowstone, Niagara Falls (heading off the inevitable gotcha-troll: yes, I know it's a State Park) or Yosemite, but there are purposefully tons of recreational and preservation set-asides readily accessible to everyone, and yet attendance figures show a disproportionately low segment of Blacks (again, sorry, not sorry R13) and other POC enjoying what they have to offer.

It's far too easy for whites to dismiss these issues as more bullshit, more whining, and to then use offensive and old-as-time itself racial slurs to justify their suggestions that Black people don't go camping because they can't swim, must eat fast food, or stay out of the sun to avoid tanning. You'd all be upset if a Black person suggested that whites can't dance, eat bland food or can't play basketball, despite there being at least some truth to these racist observations.

And along comes R140 to further gaslight the entire thread, as though it weren't filled with tired tropes and displays of prejudice so stark Helen Keller could see them.

Critical thinking, indeed.

I have never seen white people happier than when they are devouring fried chicken. Diverse palates my ass.

The mindset of the typical racist troll on this thread is perfectly encapsulated by Bill O'Reilly, who went to an African-American restaurant and was shocked that they weren't yelling out: "M-Fer! I want some more iced tea!"

Pointing out the racism isn't feeding the trolls, it's just me expressing surprise that there are people still so backward in 2020, dearie.

[quote] It's as though they can't see that 400 years of experience has shaped Black thinking in ways that white people can't understand. (Full disclosure: I'm white. I don't pretend to understand the experiences of Black people

You pretend to understand the experiences of black people and then immediately claim that you don’t do that?

Hey R143, when you're done virtue signalling about how much more empathic you are than everyone else, could you also tell us what white people are supposed to do about POC attendance? Thank you!

These articles distract from real issues the black community is facing and worse it drives a wedge between races.

The term POC is utterly useless and applied to suit someone’s narrative.

Latinos, Indians, Asians and various other brown skinned people do not identify as POC.

They are BIPOC now (aka non-whites).

I’M LESS RACIST THAN ALL OF YOU AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY

Indians in the US are more successful than whites.

^ Dot or feather?

[quote]tell us what white people are supposed to do about POC attendance?

Oh, come on. That's easy: treat Blacks and all POCs with respect.

Yup, that means that changing the Park Service's uniforms might be something to look at. We do not need military-looking park rangers (although I do like their hats).

Outreach. The Park Service has an iconic set of posters that have been updated innumerable times; how about including a Black family on one of them? Moreover, how about the Park Service make a concerted effort to hire more Black, Hispanic and Asian park rangers?

There, that's two (maybe two and a half?) suggestions off the top of my head. I know, easier said than done, particularly in Trump's America.

I think it's interesting that we're having a discussion involving race, and R150 can't contain themselves long enough to think about racial disparities, and SCREAMS about it when anyone else does. And R146, likewise, wants to call me out for being honest about trying to understand Black experience while having the decency to admit that I can't comprehend being Black. Call it virtue signalling. All you're saying is that empathy is, for lack of better words, insufficiently deplorable.

I guess we could all be like R146 and R150 (not to mention the plethora of commenters here) and make no headway or gains in solving the issue that beguiles us since committing the idealistic goal of "All men are created equal" to paper.

Let's hire Native Americans to inform the visitors of all colors about real the real persecution that happened on those lands and not some made up bullshit by some whiney little bitch, who probably has spent all their life in the city and for the first time ever took a step into nature and found it didn't fit with their "diverse" narrative.

The Chinese tourist thing seems to be more about competing with other Chinese tourists. I don't know if it is some weird tourist dynamic or what, but they seem to exit the bus as if there's only so much park to consume/enjoy and they are determined to get more than the rest of the people they arrived with.

The result is the pushy aggressiveness and disregard for anyone else present, which leads to negative perceptions of that demographic. I'm not rationalizing bad behavior, but it does seem like there is something going on when it comes to large groups of Chinese tourists (from China) that brings it out. Anyone know?

So, R153 (etc.) is the writer of this ridiculous article, right?

I guess white folks are supposed to take black folks by the hand, like recalcitrant children, and drag them out to "improve" themselves by frolicking in Mother Nature? Only.... black people aren't children and white people aren't their parents. They can do whatever the fuck they want, so why don't they stop pouting and whining and just do it if they're burning with the desire?

Unless someone can point to an incident when someone was refused admission to a national park because of their race? Because if they were, that's absolutely outrageous and should be severely punished. If not, get off your ass and go to a national park, or don't. Nobody on earth gives a shit, honey.

"Systemic racism" is apparently now as meaningless a term as "abuse."

POC don't go to national parks for the following reasons:

Blacks who could afford the trip and aren't too lazy to make it would have nowhere to show off their bling and Cadillacs. There is no crap fast food for miles and you can't steal rocks and leaves and resell them in the ghetto.

Hispanics don't go because they could just as easily park their cars and blast their shitty music on their front lawns while their 70 nuclear family members drink cerveza and drown in carbs.

Finally, none of them give a damn about preserving the beauty of nature and their asses are already dark enough without being exposed to hours out in the open.

R159 You sound like a real gem of a person. I'm sure everyone just loves being around YOU!

And cunt R159, seeing your other posts, hilarious to see you quarantined in some shithole like Romania! How fitting that you're stuck with Eastern European trash where you belong!

R160 - you are right but they only get the privilege if they are all white and, hence, alright.

R161 pretends to be offended by a satirical post while showing that he is, in fact, the real bigot on this site.

Low IQ always reveals itself.

I think I’ll try camping in Yellowstone on my next vacation.

R163 satire would involve a level of actual wit which is clearly beyond your capabilities.

Have fun in eastern europe.

A psychologist I knew once worked with troubled inner-city kids, and had the bright idea that taking them camping would broaden their horizons and open their minds to the beauties of nature, etc. So, she and some other counselors took a group of urban-poor kids of all races camping for a weekend.

The kids HATED it, they found "nature" strange and threatening, they were afraid of everything and thought that rattlesnakes were lurking under every rock. They were so upset by the prospect of spending the night around the campfire that they begged to be taken into town, and were much happier standing around the streets of the nearest town, which was a shabby little dump with nothing open but bars and gas stations.

The thing about life in bad city neighborhoods is that it's dangerous, to survive a person needs to have their fight-or-flight instincts on at full bore at all times. And if you take a person who's in constant fight-or-fight survival mode out of their usual dangerous environment, they don't drop the mindset or behaviors that allows them to survive. These underclass kids were used to being in constant danger, and when they were put in a place where none of their usual dangers existed, they didn't stop being hyper-vigilant, they couldn't. Instead, they assumed that the new environment was full of different dangers, ones they had no experience with and didn't know how to cope with, and they found that scarier than the horrible neighborhoods they lived in.

But that's just the poor underclass, nothing to do with the sort of middle-class POC who have vacations and who could go to National Parks if they chose.

R165 - thank you, I just took a Danube river cruise in Budapest these past 3 days. Enjoy waiting at Yellowstone with Karen and her Repuke husband and bratty crotchfruit. Make sure to have your camera on hand to film her and upload it to Tik Tok just in case she threatens to call the cops on you for breathing while being "of color".

Camping and outdoor-style fashions aren't becoming to POC.

R159, you forgot Asians in that racist diatribe.

Interesting R166. Honestly camping in the woods and spending the day at Yosemite are completely different.

I think there are definitely cultural preferences and priorities at play as well. I’ve had friends come from other countries and wanted to take them to all these great famous locales in SF and found they wanted to spend the day in stores and outlets shopping. I found it odd but it was their trip.

R169 - because if they are Japanese, Chinese or Korean they go because they need to find SOMETHING to photograph with all those cameras around their necks besides their faces since they ALL look alike. South East Asians would not like the smell of fresh and, hence, would miss out but not my much because they aren't as tech-smart as their northern counterparts who know how to use cameras and also, pigmented enough to not need the extra UV exposure.

Satisfied?

r159 can you do Arabs next?

[quote] just took a Danube river cruise in Budapest

Of course a stupid cunt like you would take a cruise in the middle of corona! Enjoy the Rona, cunt

R172 he already did white MAGA trash quite well just by being himself

R172 - I've already done two medical students I met on Grinder and the smell of them after lamb kebab was enough to make even an experienced top gag no matter how good their anal hygiene. Foreplay included that pesky anal exam for explosives.

That said, their body odor should be employed to keep out trespassers, vandals, and poachers. It works as a natural repellent. Obviously, you need Rona victims with no sense of smell to do a body search for explosives BEFORE you let them into the parks, but hey, nobody's perfect.

R173 - we all had to be tested before we went idiot. Same for anyone entering many countries or tourist activities out here in the EU. My roommate had to have a clean test before entering Vienna to visit her uncle. I can't believe the US is letting people into fucking Disney World without a test. YOU enjoy being there.

R176 Doubt they are doing such testing in that eastern euro shithole. You also type fat and old. I bet if you get Rona, you'll die

I wonder why the NYT and other once prestigious publications are jumping so eagerly into the wokesphere. They're sucking up to people who don't pay for their news sources, and they're alienating the people who DO pay for their news sources.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

R143, so clever how you ramble a list of black stereotypes as being preposterous, then list white stereotypes "that are probably true". How do you sleep at night with all your woke white privilege? Grow up.

All the excuses posed in this thread as reasons why anyone other than whites can get to a national park are just that--excuses! Anyone who wishes to enjoy this experience can book a trip, save the money & do the research JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. There is no systemic oppressor waiting to block you at the gate, no booking agent who will tell you that all flights are full because your name sounds too ethnic, and no mobs of whites who will revolt because they're not the only ones peering down into the Grand Canyon. As I posted earlier in this thread, any suggestion that minorities should feel excluded from parks for the reasons listed within are not only insulting, but belittling & patronizing. This topic has been very over-intellectualized.

And to those of you who keep bringing up racial income disparities, you should do some research. Coleman Hughes, Glenn Loury, Thomas Sowell will all have very surprising & factual information for you. And no, I am not providing links. Do your own research.

R177 - you think? The government makes exceptions only for Hungarian nationals returning home who to put in quarantine for 14 days at a clinic because as they say:

"Requirements for exemption from the above regulations: 2 negative SARS-CoV-2 molecular biologic test results (medical certificate issued either in English or in Hungarian) taken within the five-day period with at least 48 hours’ time difference preceding entry to Hungary."

They also take your temperature and fine you 1000 Euros if you are caught without a mask in any enclosed space and they patrol all the time.

And if you think Budapest and the Danube are shitholes, you need to look beyond your red flyoverstan state's local water park.

R179 - ignore the humorless SJW's who live for virtue signaling to the point where they will soon be offended by the "white" in White Cliffs of Dover. They are doing nothing but actually causing more division and racism. They are also so boring and offended by even imaginary slight that it is a small wonder they can't function without their daily "happy" pills.

R119 - it's all meant to divide us. When I was back in the US, my Nigerian buddy and I would take a long weekend somewhere at a resort in a desert state, with Sedona as a favorite. We both love photography, gay friendly places, and the desert in November and it clears my mind as a writer and his as a doctor begged down with ER patients.

I troll the SJW'S because POC come in many forms, have many backgrounds, careers, diverse personalities and their stereotypes have an undercurrent of racism far more insidious than Trump and his tards rambling. What an article like this does is reinforce the stereotypes of POC as inner city goons as I parodied in my sketches, which the dummies didn't even u understand. You will see lots of East Indians, Asians, Africans, South Americans and Israelis at many landmarks. As for African-Americans and Hispanics, let's look at the income disparity and conditioning of what is "cool" in the inner cities and that is why sadly you will see less at these parks.

Yeah, I don't know that it's so much an income disparity thing. I think it's more of a city people thing -- a lot are just not at all interested in camping/outdoor activities on their days off. Hell, a lot of my friends are gay men of all ethnic stripes and they have zero interest in camping.

Which is fine. Do you really want to drag people to the outdoors if all they're going to be doing is whining about bugs and the elements? And if everybody was into camping, then national parks would just become more overcrowded. To each their own...

Exactly, R183. It's not rocket science.

The problem however, is how the idiotic author of this article is turning this into an issue about racism, when it is NOT.

I saw the ad the other day. I want to say it was while I was watching either CNN or MSNBC.

It talked about the Buffalo Soldiers (I still don’t understand what that was, but I guess they were black?) and people can explore the history of these black American heroes at the National Parks.

It didn’t seem heavy-handed to me. It just seemed like a way to market to black people, which I see all the time. Whatever. It’s a market, go for it.

If it helps the National Parks stay funded and appreciated, I don’t see the big controversy.

R183, lots of city people have zero interest in nature, rich and poor, all colors and ethnicities.

But not all POC are "city people", as you unintentionally imply, the suburbs and rural areas are populated by all sorts of all colors and nationalities now.

I was on LA when Gina Torres was pictured kissing a white man, and part of one of the top comments was something like:

"I bet they went fishing on their first date.

Disgusting."

*LSA

because of HIPAA there are strict limits of what I can share but I can tell you that the worlds most famous black opera singer came to our hospital for an elective procedure which required just TWO nights stay, and she brought a car full of Louis Vuitton luggage that the nurses didn’t have any place to store. They wound up stacking it in the soiled utility room (haha) and our diva was none the wiser. EVERYTHING was an escalation, EVERY minute of the stay was drama, EVERYONE was happy when this enormous personality was discharged.

Beaches will be accused of being racist in the next article.

"The glaring, blinding white sand intimidated me with its millions of non-melanated grains. Each one was inculcated with the privilege of whiteness and the moral stain of holding my ancestors as slaves. I could feel those sand dunes staring at me, silently telling me I didn't belong there. The ocean kept threatening me, pushing back toward the land, as if to shove me back into the 'ghetto' where the white beach thinks I belong. Even the sun and sky were glowing white, trying to bleach away my heritage and proud history. I ran away, sobbing at once again having been forced into segregation and denied my basic humanity by all-pervasive and oppressive whiteness."

-- actual verbatim quote from Fakename McBlackperson, as transcribed by SJW Bootsy Thatherton (Dartmouth '18) for the inevitable think piece

R191 - this is particularly ignorant fodder. Africa has some of the most spectacular beaches in the world and that natural habitat that is described is certainly the privilege of only Southern Europe.

The public parks in the predominantly African American parts of town tend to be empty, but that’s because they are periodically sprayed with gunfire by gangs protecting their territory.

Kind of hard to enjoy your picnic when you’re dodging stray bullets.

Anything you white devils enjoy should be closed.

It takes a certain level of disposable income and vacation time to go to national parks. It's not something poor people do. Lower middle class families usually go to the beach or nearby amusement parks for the two weeks vacation they can put together and even that is a strain. I never set foot in a national park until I was an adult. Now I love visiting them...but one thing you notice, a lot of the visitors are from other countries. You hear German, Japanese, Spanish, French, and Portuguese (rich Brazilians) spoken. The costs of traveling to Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone or Acadia ain't cheap. Food, campsites, hotel accommodations, all cost money. I think the whiteness of the parks stem from income levels more than race. Also, when I worked for the airlines with flight benefits, few of my coworkers of any race would choose to go to national parks cities when they could go to Hawaii, Europe, Cancun or the Caribbean.

R184, if anything, it's more an issue of accessibility. i.e. Busy parents, too far from national parks, etc.

And if people feel very strongly about this, they can contribute a donation to a non-profit like below instead of just complaining about it on Datalounge.

R194 - bitch we white devils want a safe space to enjoy our mayo laden food and bologna sandwiches, our wet dog scented sweat, and revel in our blandness.

When we want soul food or Mexican, we know where to go. But you have to let us come armed with our Karens, our bullet proof vests, our MAGA hats, and vast quantities of Rolaids.

Everyone lay off r159. he's from the commie eastern bloc. He probably doesn't know what a vacation is and has probably never seen an airport. It's not his fault he's from a shithole country.

Go ahead, r159, keep spewing your talking points. We don't begrudge you your vodka and borscht ration for your efforts.

Most parks are in rural areas where you have to drive through numerous predominantly white small towns.

I know different friends of color have talked to me about not feeling comfortable driving in the middle of BumpkinLand. This is not only law enforcement fears,, but being followed closely while driving by locals in trucks with gun racks who pass them and look at them suspiciously, etc.

I think if I had those fears I’d be hesitant to make that a vacation priority for my family.

Do black people like hunting? I can’t say I’ve ever seen one, but then again it’s an activity I associate with white trash in the south.

R200 Southern rural Blacks do, fishing too. Too many people seem to stereotype all Black people as living in the inner city. While many Black people moved away during the Great Migration, not all of them did. You can still find many rural counties throughout the South that are majority Black, or close to it. They tend to like the same activities as rural White people, hunting, honky tonkin', tractor pulls, drag racing, high school football on Friday nights, church on Sunday morning, etc.

"I know different friends of color have talked to me about not feeling comfortable driving in the middle of BumpkinLand."

Oh, like The Gays are! For those of us who go to National Parks, how many of us are willing to get out of our cars in the small deplorable towns we have to pass? Or make eye contact with the locals, or are willing to stop for a pee and a drink?

But it's not the same level of fear, at least, not for those that aren't flamboyant enough to be twigged while driving. No, when I've asked black friends about travel or suggested a road trip, and some were VERY concerned about safety. Some were very much afraid that they'd vanish on some back road, out where lynchings were once common and shallow graves will never be found, they felt that cities and suburbs were much safer for them, or at least the cities and suburbs they knew.

[quote]I know different friends of color have talked to me about not feeling comfortable driving in the middle of BumpkinLand.

I'm as pasty white as it gets and even *I* get nervous driving through redneck bumpkin towns. I can only imagine how people of color must feel.

Being from a small town, I have no fear of them. Neither do I fear large cities, the "ghetto," nor suburbs. But, I also believe that 95% of people regardless of where they live are good people.

R199, r202, r203...More irrational, overblown & encouraged fear. This is no more tolerable as white people refusing to drive through black areas of their cities or who lock their doors as a black person walks by.

I live in the PNW, and there are hiking trails EVERYWHERE. You don’t need money, and you don’t need to go very far to get to them (many city parks even have hiking trails). I see a lot of people on the trails when I hike: white, Hispanic, Asian... but almost never any black people. I just don’t think it’s their thing.

"More irrational, overblown & encouraged fear. "

There's nothing irrational about being wary out in Methland, you fucking idiot!

I mean, I go out there anyway, on my way to national parks or cool wild places, I'm just cautious when I do. Because there are some mean and crazy motherfuckers out there and they've got drugs, and nobody will ever find a shallow grave in a deep forest or huge pasture.

Please let’s stop this narrative that the National Parks are only for rich white people.

People like what they like. It’s not some grand conspiracy.

So, black people don't like camping? That's why we didn't see many black people in those Friday the 13th movies.

If they had, R209, then Jason would have killed them first.

R210 - not if he got close to some the sistahs in LA...they would have taken care of him immediately.