Dorothy Zbornak

Pension.

I understand why she was a substitute teacher - it was to make her seem pathetic - but it would have been more in character to make her a history teacher.

I always thought of her as an English teacher even though she was always referred to as a substitute.

Granny porn.

Pension from what?? Do subs get a pension?

She once put an ad in the want ads saying she was willing to do anything for $8.00 an hour

A "mature" woman with 3 roommates...they were obviously collectively poor.

Blanche was rich, or so I thought.

And before she self-diagnosed herself with chronic fatigue she should’ve tried dropping a few scarves and ankle length skirts. The woman was dying of heat exhaustion!

This never gets old:

[quote]This thread and others make me think that Datalounge is basically a secret underground civilization of people who have never seen the actual world above. The only clues they have to it are some ancient videotapes of the complete series of "I Love Lucy" and "The Golden Girls," and they watch these over and over again, obsessing about them, going over every last detail, and wondering just how life in the sunlit world above can possibly correspond to the details of what they're seeing on the holy videotapes.

R3 She was. Sad she usually worked just day or two in one school. She had English but often she had to teach driving.

Yes, Blanche is always the confusing one r8.

Her backstory is she has money, many comments on how her kids were raised by nannies. Yet the entire premise of the show is that she needs roommates to help pay for her house.

R12, I assumed her family had money growing up, and her husband did well for himself, but circumstances changed when she became a widow. It’s a common story.

maybe she got alimony from Stan

R13 Condoms every week and a new bed every year can add up.

She is a retire teacher, Rose.

R12 I never got that she needed the money desperately but I quote:

"Dorothy, you can't pass up a chance to own real estate. It's been a lifesaver for me. You get a bunch of saps to pay your mortgage for you every month while your equity just rises higher and higher, while those poor suckers..."

Clearly when George died they hadn't paid off the house yet and she couldn't do it on her museum salary. I figured she had a lot of money tied up in stocks she couldn't touch.

More importantly, how did a poor pensioner and two gals "two paychecks from broke" afford to buy shares in her house? Did she just sell them a token 1% each?

R17, I thought the gals just paid Blanche rent. They weren’t partial owners, were they?

Dorothy became a co-owner of that apartment block so maybe her fortunes rose. Did they ever refer to financial problems in later seasons?

R18 yes she sold them all shares when the zoning guy found out she had 3 renters, which isn't permitted.

And how did they afford to buy such a big hotel?

Didn't Stan come into money midway through the series by inventing a baked potato opener?

[quote]She is a substitute teacher.

Yes ... a homeleh, mannish, perenialleh dateless substitute teachuh.

R22 yes he was Zborn Again!

Some substitutes work every day and make a decent salary. Surely this reasonable explanation is the one offered up in Golden Girls.

R18 You need to re-watch season 7

Onlyfans

R25 please read R17, she was nearly broken

Broke I mean

R29 she was almost broken too when Stan left her and having to care for Ma. She gave up her career as a successful high school teacher afterwards and became a substitute teacher as she wasn't sure if she was emotional strong enough to go to work everyday.

Zborn Porn

I think she never really quit gambling and at one point she hit it big.

She didn't have to worry about money anymore when she married Blanche's uncle.

How did that thieving old Sophia give all that Social Security money back without an investigation?

Probably a full time teacher until Dorothy got older and preferred to do the teacher thing as a side hustle.

Didn't they address this in the very first pilot episode, where Blanche was going to get married and the rest of them said they wouldn't be able to afford a place on their own?

Teachers are rich

You sad old queens need to understand it was only a tv show. It wasn't real.

Teachers pension. If it was from NYC it had to be in the millions. The public service unions, including the police, are draining us dry.

I mean Blanche and Rose were just renting a room because it's all they could afford. The show didn't pretend like they a lot have money.

Blanche is the only character who was supposed to have some money, that's why she owned the house.

Dorothy and Rose*

Dorothy spent all her money putting her burden of a mother in a home.

Dorothy spent all her money on cowl neck sweaters and games of chance.

R17 George didn’t die - he stained his desk.

How many drachmas are there in eight dollars?

She spent most of her hard earned money on a wardrobe that would make her look like the mother of a Solid Gold dancer.

I never thought Dorothy was sad. Life gave her lemons and she made lemonade! But it was some bitter shit...

Didn't she lose her savings gambling and paying for Ma?

Her feets stank

[quote] Blanche was rich, or so I thought.

Blanche probably did have a bit of money, but she really didn’t want to have to work. In one episode, she complained about “busting her hump 12 hours a week at the museum.” In another, she admitted that the reason she had roommates was because they paid her mortgage for her. So basically, she had no (or very low) living expenses.

The average pension for a Florida teacher TODAY is $19,700 a year. God knows what it was in prehistoric times, when Dorothy taught. No wonder she had to move in with other people!

And, just for the troll, the average pension in New York is $41,703. The poverty line in New York is $31,756... Boy, those teachers are greedy!

In the first season Stan is more successful -he pays Dorothy alimony , he lives in Maui for some time with his New wife, etc. They make him a novelty salesman later and more of a flop financially. Then he becomes a success with his potato gadget.

Rose is the one that’s broke from the beginning.

Blanche has money but is stingy with expenses that aren’t related to her personal appearance.

R52: Remember in Season 2, he loses the business and Dorothy pawns Blanche on him so she can go on the date with the Commodore? That story is one of the few consistencies in the show.

There are two things consistent about Dorothy.

1) She married Stan because she was pregnant.

2) They were married for 38 years.

Unfortunately those two things are completely inconsistent with their kids who are not the right age at all.

Golden Girls never did go for logic.

R54: I say it's Kate. The second actress who played Kate (who was a worse actor than Season 1 Kate) could easily be 39-40. She was older looking, as opposed to 20-something Kate 1. But Kate and Dennis (1st Dennis was hot but bad actor, 2nd Dennis was meh but much better at playing the role) only appeared twice. But I stand by my theory. Cuz we all know Micheal is nowhere near 40 in any of his appearances.

They invested in Bitcoin, Rose.

Who thought it was a good idea to give Dorothy a College roommate (Trudy)?

If Dorothy lost the baby after she married Stan, they separated (or he went to Korea) during which time she went to College, then they reunited and had Kate & Michael later it just makes more sense chronologically.

Did they explain how Rose got her Grief Centre job back? She was a waitress for 1 episode.

What happened to the money she got from selling the farm?

Charlie was terrible with money as we learned in season 2 when Kunty Kirsten first shows up.

She probably got very little out of the sale.

Rose a naive farmer’s daughter who hadn’t seen a ”man” before her wedding night ended up being an associate producer on GMM. She became money maker for the household. Not bad after decades of being housewife in Minnesota with or without education (depending on episode and storyline she didn’t graduate from high school or studied ”latin”).

I honestly kept thinking Dorothy and Stan's first child was born in the 50's, died and they had Michael and Kate a decade later but in the mid-50's Brooklyn flashbacks, references are made to Dorothy and Stan having children and Michael is mentioned by name when Sophia tells Dorothy that Stan's mother terrifies him.

R13 is not incorrect. It's a minor plot point that is easily explained, but it would have been nice if they had just hinted at it. I could see Blanche blowing through the fortune in her immediate grief. Could've explained her ridiculous wardrobe at least. It would've added more to the character and the story if they had just filled that in better.

The chronology of Dorothy's kids' births never made sense. She was supposedly pregnant in high school so why didn't she have a middle aged oldest child in the series? All her kids were under 30. Did she graduate in 1968? Did she fail a few grades? She was at least close to 60 in the early seasons, right? She would have been born in the early 30s and graduated HS in the mid-50s at the latest; she'd have a kid who was at least 30 by the first season. None of it adds up.

Rose landing an on air gig as a senior citizen with no experience was laughable. TV stations don't hire kids out of college with no experience, they sure wouldn't hire some old woman who needed training for an on air spot.

R63, kind of sounds like the plot to Trump bringing his he-haw family into power.

Dorothy made her money in several ways:

1. She would enter any Fess Parker look-a-like contest and usually won

2. She was a nude model for gay sculptors named Lars

3. She bred homosexual minks

4. She flipped burgers at the seashore

5. She sang at the Rusty Anchor and gave hand jobs in the back room between performances. For an extra 5.00 bucks she would croon “Mawwwwww” in her deepest register.

If I remember correctly, Sophia was born in 1905, Rose and Dorothy were both born in 1930 and Blanche was born in 1932. Birth years were one of the few things that remained a constant in regards to the show's infamous continuity. Dorothy and Stan were married for 38 years. This is first mentioned in season 1 which means they got married in 1947 when Dorothy was 16-17 since he got her pregnant after the senior prom. Michael is said to be 23-29. Which would mean he was born sometime between 1957-1963. Prom is generally held in February/March which would place his month of birth as November/December.

Yeah they do that in tv shows OP.

R63 she had the one thing reporters need: hair that doesn’t move.

Dorothy should have taken up literary criticism or writing short articles.

I would assume Dorothy received alimony and a share of whatever home she and Stan had that would have been sold in the divorce. I also assume that she had previously been a full time teacher with a pension. Those together with her substitute teaching gigs, should have been enough for her to live comfortably with roommates in Florida at that time. Remember the cost of living is lower in Florida, especially in the 1980s. That is one of the reasons it is a retirement mecca.

She was double dipping, OP. Lots of people do that.

Did she and Stan own their own home?

[quote] Dorothy should have taken up literary criticism or writing short articles.

A real moneymaker!

The Golden Girls as a horror

R72 I assume they did. He must have been pretty successful to move to Maui after the divorce.

They borrowed money from his mom so they didn't have to get a small bank loan or even have a garage sale.

Stan's mom (Alice Ghostley) couldn't live forever.

Stan's mom lived in a trailer and didn't enjoy Stan's visits

Almost every Golden Girls thread devolves into general griping about its inconsistencies. I think it bothers us more than we care to admit. Perhaps it’s time to seek therapy?

Relax, it was a sitcom that went off the air some 30 years ago, dear.

R77 She might've had a good life insurance policy.

No shit, I had a Golden Girls dream last night!

She was taking a stroll through my hometown with some man (I think it might have been Leslie Nielsen), and I guess she should have been spending more time with the girls, because they were pissed at her, and for some reason I was too, even though I wasn't actually there. Blanche told her how much she and Rose missed her and Dorothy didn't give a shit. They started throwing the usual Dorothy being ugly/Blanche being a slut jokes.

It ended with Rose crying and Dorothy STILL not giving a shit. I distinctly remember Dorothy saying, "You know what, Blanche? Maybe you're right. I AM a cunt." Even though Blanche never called her a cunt. I guess my subconscious was putting words in her mouth.

It was a total character assassination. I think it may have been a manifestation of my feelings of betrayal over the shitty, depressing ending.

The inconsistencies on the show are kind of ridiculous. I've been watching season 1. In Season 1 Episode 17, Blanche says she ran away to NYC and danced as a Rockette under an assumed name for two months. In the next episode the girls are learning to tap dance and Blanche is nervous about performing in public and says she has always been that way. I understand inconsistencies popping up in a long-running show, over the various seasons, but not from week to week.

I always thought Rose was a bitch, way more than Dorothy.

[quote] Perhaps it’s time to seek therapy?

I’ll tell you this right now, r78, I’m not walking around with a monkey on a fucking traffic cone!

Another inconsistency that hasn’t been pointed out in any of the countless threads that bitch about GG inconsistencies:

In 6x11 (Stand By Your Man), Dorothy has that running gag throughout the episode where she talks too long about something and then finishes with, “Who are you to judge me?!” One of the moments is her trailing off and talking about having sex in an airplane lavatory with the pilot! THIS from the loser who had no sex life?

I guess it’s not an outright inconsistency but it’s very out of character. And it’s the only moment in the whole series she ever tells a Blanche-y story like that, so it’s kind of a WTF moment whenever I see it.

Wait, what?? Alice Ghostly (aka Aunt Esmeralda) was Stan's MOM?? How do I not remember that??

R83 I always thought Rose’s passive aggressive insults were the best. Like when Blanche talks about dumping a guy and says “maybe I should say he’s just too good for me” and then Rose is all “sometimes the truth is best,” in that way only BW can deliver a line.

Such pros, all of them.

Rose’s “Hypersexual bitch” is still the best.

I was a substitute teacher a few years back.

$75/day.

$80 if you have a graduate degree.

No medical/dental or any insurance whatsoever.

This was 2007-2012. Can you imagine 1985's pay?

who????

R89 Remember Florida has no state income tax, so she would have taken home more of her paycheck than in most places. Also, they seemed like the type of roommates that would split the grocery budget and things equally. Though Sophia might not have been expected to pay for groceries, since she seemed to do most of the cooking. Between her pay, alimony, and three other roommates it would be easy for Dorothy to live a comfortable life in 1980s Miami as a substitute teacher.

[quote]Though Sophia might not have been expected to pay for groceries

Of course not. Did you see how she scammed that supermarket into a cheaper nectarine?

[quote]Almost every Golden Girls thread devolves into general griping about its inconsistencies. I think it bothers us more than we care to admit. Perhaps it’s time to seek therapy?

This is why Disney was the wrong choice for [italic]Star Wars[/italic].

Remember the episode where the girls agreed to split the cost of the groceries but Dorothy thought Blanche would use the pastrami as a dildo and Rose kept telling the cashier she was undercharging.

R94 That’s the season 1 finale. “Rose, why don’t you save it for The Price is Right?”

Wait, I thought the "girls" won tons of cash on Grab That Dough. Or am I thinking of another '80s sitcom with a game show episode? Mama's Family on The Family Feud???

They did, R96. Kind of. Dorothy grabbed that dough in the giant vacuum chamber, but then they blew it in the final round. All they got was a skillet and a lifetime supply of soup.

[quote][R63] she had the one thing reporters need: hair that doesn’t move.

They said I'd be perfect as the lead in [italic]The King & I[/italic]. So stupid here shaves her head and doesn't get the part!

R98 You tried to lock me up in Blanche's home when I came to visit

you big dummy !!!

She meant Blanche's home, R99, not "the home."

I love how such a big deal was made over Rose being overprotective of her mother because she wanted her mother alive as long as possible... then in a later episode she just casually mentions her dead parents like they’ve both been gone for decades.

Surprised they didn’t use such an occasion for one of their depressing Very Special Ebbtisodes.

Dorothy used to cut her own hair

I recently watched the episode where Blance's sister comes in search of a kidney transplant and it reminded me that Blanche always had two sisters. Her sister was looking for a kidney donor and they talk extensively about their third sister but never mention a brother.

Then a few seasons later she has a brother (a brother who she is supposedly close with no less!) who comes visit and comes out as gay who never existed before.

She performed back-alley zbortions on the side

R103 she also had a mentally challenged brother who was first mentioned (and seen) at The Golden Palace

I prefer to talk about guys who aren't related to me.

Dorothy should have married Stan again and get double alimony!

R106 explains why I sometimes don't exist.

[quote]She performed back-alley zbortions on the side

All those huge coat hangers from the Maude set really came in handy.

The Dorothy Zbornak entry on Wikipedia reads like a caftan’s PhD.

Yes R10, it does. Like one and a half times into reading it.

Which I don’t have in posting.

[quote] She performed back-alley zbortions on the side

With her bare hands.

If ever there was a woman who could benefit from a loose caftan..

She was already loose enough as it was!

Why did Bea Arthur ALWAYS wear a scarf on Maude? I thought it was to cover some horrible disfigurement. But her neck is uncovered on the Gold Girls, so what is with that?

In the pilot all the ladies were in their 60s. By the next episode, their ages were moved to their mid 50s. So Dorothy was too young to be collecting a pension. She was clearly living off alimony, her subbing salary, and probably “managing” Sophia’s social security.

R118 Which is funny as both BA and BW were really in their mid 60s, RC was really in her mid 50s.

Rue Mc. was valedictorian of her HS class in Oklahoma, and her sister is a PhD.

It always felt to me that Blanche never had money problems. I think at one point she freely admitted, 'thank god, I married money', and Dorothy called her a tramp. To me it felt like she got roommates for entertainment, maybe for safety to not be the sole resident of the house.

And in later seasons, the girls' gowns become pretty fancy when they were out with their suitors.

They go into Rose's finances quite a bit in one ep -- she loses Charley's salesman pension and has to hit the streets looking for a job.

Blanche had a horrible relationship with her 5 or 6 children. She was lonely. Yes, the girls paid her mortgage, but they were really there because she didn’t want to be alone.

Ok, I just watched S1 E20. Discussing seeing Frank Sinatra in concert. She says that Stan had bought her tickets but two weeks before the concert Stan asked for a divorce, she states "I got the house and the kids, he got the tickets." If she is telling the truth. She could have sold the house and used it as a nest egg.

Dorothy is one of my fave people

What happened to the house?

After all 4 tenants left, it converted itself into

a haunted house to stay in the spotlight Rose.

Did the girls ever refuse a certain storyline they disagreed with?

R128 Jokes about owning slaves, blackface & jews inventing jewelry...

I'd say NOPE!

[quote] And how did they afford to buy such a big hotel?

Blanche started charging.

Writers of shows, especially sitcoms, can be sloppy. When the script needs them to be poor they are poor, when they all need stylish gowns to go to some fundraiser they aren't poor. When the script needs Dorthy to have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome she can barely make it through the day, next episode she is fine. You just can't expect them to remember what they wrote in past episodes, even though we do.

R131 any one of their gay fans would have happily volunteered to be continuity advisor.

What I don't get is why the actors don't bring it to the writers attention when something directly contradicts their character's personality or history? This happens in soaps and continuing series a lot. Looks sloppy

I think they did not want to make the show a copy of [italic]Soap[/italic] so they cared more about individual scripts as they were being written.

If anything, the worst continuity error was the one that happened in season four regarding Rose getting her GED. In season two, she talked about belonging to a college sorority called the Alpha Yams. How could she belong to a sorority if she never graduated high school? This was before they replaced almost the entire writing and producing staff in season 5. By that time, they had basically agreed on the basics.

R116: Bea was a little bit heavier when she was Maude. On some episodes of that show, I noticed she had the beginnings of a double chin that she didn’t have in the 80s or after that. I think she must’ve lost some weight between the two shows.

She lost weight and had work done.

I read these comments in my head in the voice of the characters. Y'all are funny!

Dorothy had an OnlyFans. Made her bit an extra on the side.

[quote]How could she belong to a sorority if she never graduated high school?

You can go to a community college without a high school or GED. There are other private colleges that will also accept you. So it's possible to belong to a sorority.

The biggest continuity error is Morothy and Stan's age, versus the ages of their children. Unless they have one really old one they never talk about.

By now R128 most of us know anything is possible in St. Olaf.

Exploding farm animals & relatives who'll shit on your stuff when they're up a tree.

I think it's agreed Dorothy and Stan's first baby died and it gave her time to go to College, room with Trudie and become a teacher.

I'm surprised they didn't do an episode like that or similar, R140. It would have answered the show's most glaring error in chronology once and for all and been an opportunity for one of those Very Special Episodes they loved to do, where one of the girls reveals some terrible event or secret from their past.

R133 There is a very good book about Lucille Ball called The Lucy Book, that goes through every television appearance that she made. One thing it talks about is that on The Lucy Show once she dropped her original writers and started using different writers, the show started getting sloppy and became very inconsistent and full of contradictions.

I think if you compare The Golden Girls with the similar Designing Women, the difference is that Susan Harris created but didn't write many episodes, whereas Linda Bloodworth-Thomason kept a close watch on DW and wrote the majority of episodes. Therefore, they had fewer such contradictions.

I Always thought THE most egregious error was the Bob Hope episode where Rose reveals that “the NYLUNDS” are really her adoptive parents. WTF??!?

It’s bad enough the episode sucks but seriously??

The timeline doesn't match up with either Kate or Michael. Michael was 22 in 1988 so he couldn't have possibly been the baby conceived that night. Nor could Kate if she was in grade school during Beatlemania (the actual phenomenon, not the incredible simulation). A miscarriage or stillbirth is the most likely explanation, and their being Catholic meant they couldn't get out of the marriage.

r143

I hadn't realized that it took that long for them to say Rose was adopted.

That could easily have been fixed just by changing it to the correct name. That would not have required any major restructuring of the plot. Of course, they eventually did find her real father: a monk!

[quote] Dorothy Zbornak

Sorry, I don't know her.

R143 that's what I mean and although the burden is on the writers, it does make Betty look inattentive at best. She didn't pick up on this simple error in the history of a character she played for years?

r143 Bob Hope's short little comedy act at the end went over like cold vomit. It was embarrassing to watch. The whole episode was embarrassing to watch, actually. I don't remember any of it being funny!

[quote]Golden Girls never did go for logic

If you want logic, watch "Matlock", Rose

Dorothy's lifestyle was obviously financed by her the wealthy lesbian writer Barbara Thorndyke (that's right the name is "ThornDYKE")

Now I’m starting to wonder what the first serialized sitcom was, where they followed a show bible and stuck to an established history.

Bitches, she didn't room with Trudy in college; she roomed with Jean, who was raised on a farm and therefore able to fall in love with Rose.

Trudy was her high school tennis rival who reunited with the whole team at Blanche's house (as tennis teams do). Dorothy tells the story of the junior prom and how the girls agreed to wear their tennis whites, but then she was the only one who showed up dressed like that.

Bea best.

[quote]Dorothy grabbed that dough in the giant vacuum chamber, but then they blew it in the final round. All they got was a skillet and a lifetime supply of soup.

With those big mitts of her's, I thought Dorothy would grab enough dough so we'd finally be set - "a toilet in front of a big-screen TV" kind of dough.

But no, she broke my heart - an old lady can dream though.

R148 I guess Betty was going “method” in that episode.

Dorothy just needed to butt out! Needed a good smack that one.

The ridiculous Rose/Hitler subplot in the season 4 premiere came close to ruining one of the show’s best episodes. It was so fucking stupid and unbelievable, even for the increasingly stupid and unbelievable St. Olaf tales. It’s a shame the legacy of Fidel Santiago will always be associated with such foolishness!

What was the name of that ugly guy she had great sex with?

Eddie, r159. His ex-wife, Roberta, also owned the restaurant he took Dorothy to for their first date.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU PEOPLE! The Golden Girls was a crap tv show from 35 years ago. Get a life. Volunteer somewhere.

R160 thank you for being a friend! X

[quote]Dorothy had an OnlyFans. Made her bit an extra on the side.

Yeah. And she really enjoyed those two dollars.

I didn't really believe the plot in the episode where Dorothy was about to run off with the guy in the Beatles tribute band.

First of all, it would have been out of character for her, and secondly, wouldn't Dorothy have been a bit old to have been a Beatle-maniac? (she claimed she was a big fan and had tickets to see them at Shea Stadium but couldn't go because one of the kids was sick)

Yes, they should've made it Elvis.

It would have been more believable, R165, but I think they established that Dorothy didn't like Elvis.

If we have established anything in this thread it is that the writers don't care or even remember what characters said in prior episodes r166.

Yes, but not that they ever bothered themselves with continuity.

R161, you misspelled [italic]Who’s the Boss?[/italic], a crap show from the same era that scored a big red F on the test of time while GG gets a solid A-.

R164 Not, really. Someone can really get into the people their kids like. My mother was at the tail end of the Elvis generation, but her mother and aunts who were in their 30s at the time, were crazy about him, too. Her great aunt who was in her late 40s/early 50s, at the time, loved Elvis more than anyone.

Volunteer somewhere? Hey, R161, you dumb bacia-galoop, we fed the homeless on Christmas Day! Sounds like something Jesus would’ve done, even if that yutz Stan had to show up and ruin it for everybody.

R170: That was no worse than Rose and Blanche arguing over who loved Elvis more. A lot of shows did Elvis-themed plot lines in 1988, which is interesting because they missed the 10th anniversary of his death.

Have you seen this already? QA from 80s with cast etc.

Dorothy had a few side gigs going on. She taught night school...remember when Rose enrolled in her GED class? At one point, she accepted a corporate training gig offered by her former student, a video game developer. And...some of her substitute assignments were long-term, like when she taught Mario's class long enough to submit his essay in a contest. And she had taught the video game developer long enough to "cut him off at the pass" in 10th grade. An another gig, the football coach and fans campaigned to scare her away from the school after she failed the star player. She was familiar enough with the school to help chaperone formal dances.

It was best that she was a substitute teacher, as that allowed her to be a jack of all trades. She proudly leveraged her teacher status when she wanted to edit her dialog in the pizza commercial.

Why were they all carrying their purses in R173? Why not leave them in the dressing room?

We just want to know how much they each paid to live there. Did the rent include utilities?

Each lady paid $250 a month. It included utilities. They were responsible for their own groceries.

One thing that bothered me was when Charlie's pension was cut off and Rose feared she would be homeless. The 4 of them had been living together for several years by then and become such great friends, not to mention Rose had about 5 children and she faced being out on the streets despite having a large support system. Her St. Olaf stories weren't THAT bad.

She was afraid of not being able to pay the rent. She also exaggerated her husband's financial skills so her children wouldn't be ashamed of him.

In one of the flashback episodes. Dorothy and Sophia want to secretly buy each other a TV. Dorothy asked her mother to watch the kids while she works. Sophia talks about them watching Your Show of Shows which ran from 1950 to 54

Say what you will about Dorothy, she could whirlybird like nobody's business.

Is Zbornak a real surname? Anyone ever know one?

She and Blanche didn't cheap out on workout gear either, like Rose did.

Didn't they also talk about watching Person to Person, R180? If so, then the time period for that flashback had to have been in 1953 or later, since Person to Person first aired in 1953.

R183 nice outfits girls.

[quote] Is Zbornak a real surname? Anyone ever know one?

There was a stage manager on the show named Kent Zbornak who later became a producer on [italic]The Office[/italic].

and how did they afford to buy a hotel eventually?

OMG, R65, you not only made me laugh out loud

But I also may have discovered the source of my somewhat unique sexual fetishes

1. Fess Parker look-a-like contests

2. Nude GIlF models

3. Homosexual minks

4. Flipping burgers at the seashore

5. Getting hand jobs at the Rusty Anchor while my escort croons “Mawwwwww” in her deepest register.

And for those of you who are judging me - who are you to judge me?

I went to therapy once and this quack therapist wanted me to carry around a monkey on a traffic cone, which I also find oddly sexually arousing

They seemed to each own as many nightgowns and bathrobes as they did day wear garments.

It always kind of annoyed me that they all became co-owners in the very last season, when they were all about to ditch the place. You’d think at least Blanche would have had a harder time selling the house to purchase a fucking hotel.

Susan Harris had some REALLY stupid ideas.

This ‘do of Dorothy’s was peak Zbornak.

R190: Susan Harris barely had anything to do with the show by that point except for a handful of episodes on which she got an executive producer credit. She never actually wrote any episodes after that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome storyline. She actually had another show on another network by that point: [italic]Good and Evil[/italic] on ABC. It was a major flop. Witt-Thomas was also working on [italic]Blossom[/italic] without her just as they did for [italic]It's A Living[/italic] and the CBS series [italic]Beauty and the Beast[/italic].

[quote]Susan Harris had some REALLY stupid ideas.

The worst episode of the whole series, the original (in-name-only) pilot for [italic]Empty Nest[/italic], was one of her scripts.

Thanks for the info R192. Who's responsible for that god-awful jacket episode? the one which Sophia leaves a lottery ticket in a jacket and the gang ends up in a Salvation Army type place. It ends with a lady singing a lame ass song. And that other old lady gesturing with her hands and says, "Sophia it is morning." When I watch the show on Hulu I always skip that one. That and the Empty Nest episode. Cringey as hell. Before Hulu on the Hallmark Channel a person had to watch it.

Hate the teenage pregnancy tripe too

Casting Julie McCullough as the pregnant girl was their way of saying fuck you to Kirk Cameron, so they get a pass for that.

R192 that’s right and they had Lane Davies in one of the best season 7 episodes, probably right after that show was cancelled.

I’ve always wondered what Sam Harris thinks of the show, or if he ever even watched it.

R192 Oh I know, (and on that note, I’ve read that one of the reasons she wasn’t as involved after season 1 was because the script for A Little Romance was awarded an Emmy over her Pilot), but apparently she WAS the one who suggested the hotel idea.

“If I had that money I could have moved into a swinging condo instead of living with—I better not say anything until I’ve had my coffee [sips coffee]—a slut and a moron!”

Did Dorothy have a gray bush?

Dorothy Zbornak was a substitute teacher in NYC (or wherever she lived before moving to Florida) for thirty (30) years.. That is messed up, when you consider for others had careers as public school teachers for same amount of time.

Yes, know it is only a television show but in real life that wouldn't make sense. Substitute teachers are at the very low end of totem pole compensation wise for public school teachers, don't want to think about private. If DZ never became a tenured full time there would have to have been a backstory.

Am trying to work out DZ's age and when she would have begun teaching. Know by the 1980's in NYC and elsewhere schools were laying off tenured public school teachers due to low enrollment. In fact city was also closing schools as well for same reason.

The show never said she was a permenant Substitute teacher her whole career, she only started subbing after feeling the onset of her Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in 1983.

Am going by what Wiki page states:

"Dorothy worked as a high school substitute teacher of English and American history (her major in college) for over 30 years. Her teaching career is important to her, since she learned French for an exam for her teaching position. When she was in college, she taught part-time at a school for the blind. She also taught a night-school course for adults wishing to complete their high school equivalency"

That Wikipedia article is ridic, her career was important to her because she had to learn French for it? The idiot who wrote that is misrepresenting and diminishing the complexities of Dorothy.

She was likely a Principal at one point before Stan upended her whole life in 1983 when he took off, leaving her in a note!

R203: Mary!

That makes sense R203. Someone as sharp, commanding and organized as Dorothy Zbornak would've made Principal or Vice Principal. But it's not stated in the show. That loser of a husband, Stan, probably guilted her into settling to the substitute teacher position. That way he had an equal in a life position. A novelty salesman and a school Principal doesn't make sense. But a novelty salesman and a substitute teacher does.

R205 She nearly became a vp but gambling took over.

R197 that’s so ridiculous — A little Romance was 1000 times better. I’m actually starting to think she was involved in all the worst episodes.

And I never really watched or was a fan of her other shows, so I’m inclined to think of her talents as extremely overrated.

R207 I agree she's overrated. If you create a show why abandon it so quickly?

I can't believe that after all these years, I only realized today that Nancy Walker was Aunt Angela. Without her trademark red hair and in old lady clothes, I just didn't recognize her.

She was awful as Aunt Angela, made Estelle look like Meryl Streep

R210 and she was even more “too Jewish to play Italian” than Estelle, who mayyybe seemed kind of believably Sicilian next to her.

Annoying af in that role too, I never liked those episodes (except the part where Sophia is trying to trick Rose into spilling the present)

Aunt Angela was even uglier and nastier than the raisin in sneakers

She looks like a startled frog in this pic

Hey, Bounty commercials and Bruce Jenner musicals alone don't pay the bills. And those [italic]Rhoda[/italic] residuals weren't as as big as you'd think. A girl's gotta eat!

I didn't realise Nancy died even before Golden Girls ended, no wonder she wasn't at Dorothy's wedding with a bitch remark about the wedding dress! Feel kinda bad calling her ugly now.

[quote]no wonder she wasn't at Dorothy's wedding with a bitch remark about the wedding dress!

Yeah, that’s why she wasn’t at the wedding.

Even so, she was on a Fox show called [italic]True Colors[/italic] at the time. There's no guarantee there wouldn't have been a scheduling conflict even if she hadn't died.

I would have sucked off Dr. Budd.

Whew. I’m really glad I finally got that off my chest.

She likely wouldn't have been invited back, they had too much to fit into those last episodes. I wish they'd built up to the finale over a few episodes so it wasn't so rushed.

R219 Even stretching it out over 4 episodes would have been better than what they did. It would have certainly been a lot better than Rose’s depressing heart attack and her cuntful daughter Kiersten.

I think Kiersten was the most unlikable character in the entire series. When she came in and started moping about the girls laughing, I wanted them all to get up and start decking that bitch.

[quote]I think Kiersten was the most unlikable character in the entire series. When she came in and started moping about the girls laughing, I wanted them all to get up and start decking that bitch.

I wouldn't make jokes like that about hitting women if I were you since she was also Ricky Schroder's mother on [italic]Silver Spoons[/italic]. At least he hurt heterosexuals which is more than I can say for Faye Dunaway.

Regarding the jacket episode. When the got to the shop where Michael Jackson bought it, in the time they were running their mouth to the body guard they could have just said they left something in the pocket... take the jacket.

The only good special episode was Ebbtide's Revenge where Phil was dead. Brenda V shone.

Season 7 was one of the best and most consistently funny seasons in years. No very special episodes and no clip shows.

Did Angela have a sex change or are she and Angelo twins?

I think Angelo and Angela are fraternal twins. Too bad they never did an episode together.

They never even gave Sophia a maiden name!

Couldn't stand Angelo. He was so... icky. And no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He was an even bigger yutz than Stan. And yet everybody seemed to like him.

R223 I actually like the gambling episode too. Not sure why. Maybe it’s Rose’s line about The Temptations.

The ebbtide one you’re talking about I go back and forth on Estelles acting in it. Sometimes I think she’s embarrassing and other times I’m really moved.

R224 I totally agree .

The only moment that makes me laugh from the gambling episode is Blanche talking about the jockey patting her and saying, “Good girl, goooood girl...”

Dorothy talking to Rose about taking it one day at a time and Rose acting as if it was some big revelation will never cease to drive me insane.

Rose being on pills was less unbelievable and it also had the very funny B-plot of Dorothy and Sophia in the pizza commercial.

[quote]They never even gave Sophia a maiden name!

I remember in the original Golden Girls Inconsistencies thread, somebody pointed out that Wikipedia stated the family’s maiden name was Angelo. Not sure what the source of that bullshit was, but I’ve always chosen to believe that to be truth, just for fun.

It would literally make their names Angela Angelo and Angelo Angelo.

[quote] Couldn't stand Angelo. He was so... icky. And no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He was an even bigger yutz than Stan. And yet everybody seemed to like him.

Sal Petrillo was kind of a yutz. He fed monkey meat to his children.

[quote]Rose being on pills was less unbelievable

It’s easier to believe Rose could get hooked on pills than it is to believe Dorothy could destroy her life with gambling.

But Rose being prescribed pain meds for 30 YEARS? And none of her doctors even questioning it? Even Dorothy’s gambling problem made more fucking sense.

Her doctors were from St. Olaf. She should be lucky they even know what a stethoscope is.

[quote]But Rose being prescribed pain meds for 30 YEARS? And none of her doctors even questioning it? Even Dorothy’s gambling problem made more fucking sense.

Maybe compared to Dorothy being a chain smoker for a week and then quitting again only after she destroys Sophia and Max's Pizza Knish Stand. Even the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome got two weeks.

Who did the housecleaning???!

Dreyfuss the Dog came by and licked the house clean once a week, R236.

R236 Marg-your-reet, of course.

Maybe Rose was getting her pain meds from the dentist that kept groping her. He wanted to keep her happy so she wouldn’t tell.

How many of those Fred Flintstone vitamins do you have to take to get high?

R214

There was always the theater!

Did they ever get their undergarments mixed up in the washer?

[quote] Who did the housecleaning???!

Coco, but he never appeared on screen after the pilot.

Did Coco leave or was he fired?

r144

That was the plot to "Come Back Little Sheba." Which, by the way, is a great movie starring Hazel

We don't know when Morothy got her degree. I assume she waited till the kids were out of college. So that means she didn't get it until a few years after the show started.

You could have been a substitute teacher with only a few credits of college up until the late 70s, as long as you were enrolled in college and working toward a degree. You didn't even need a teaching degree. My mother was an RN and after a teacher / parent meeting she came home and announced she would be teaching next semester at my brother's high school (she was not working at the time). She taught Science in 9th and 10th grade.

Sophia was originally only going to be a recurring character, when they decided she was a regular, that meant gay Coco got the axe. Would have been interesting to see a version of the show where he was around.

R246 I assume you mean before the show started. And no, she got her degree in her early 20s after her baby passed away. She only started subbing in 1983 when the emotional trauma of the divorce.

The shame of it all is that just the odd line here or there in a few episodes would have cleared up so many of these perplexing inconsistencies

r247

Charles Levine says otherwise. He says the show had afrAIDS. Playing a gay man in the age of AIDS was uncomfortable for everyone so they dropped his character.

Charles was so much better on Alice as Vera's cop husband, Elliott. Linda Lavin, DL mega-favorite, loved him. All around nice guy!

[quote] Charles Levine says otherwise.

Not anymore he don’t.

You say that like I had something to do with it

r252

Did Blanche ever work out how she could have been pregnant if she always used contraception?

The Sophia marriage episodes are some of the worst.

[quote]Did Blanche ever work out how she could have been pregnant if she always used contraception?

Nothing is 100%

r256

You are Ralph, you've been wrong everytime

R255 I agree. I also think Season 4 probably has most of the worst episodes. And they all looked especially awful that season too.

I thought I read something that the writers thought it would be hard to explain why and how the girls could afford a house boy. That it limited story possibilities.

R258, looked awful, how exactly?

R258: That’s why they hired new writers and producers next season. That’s when Marc Cherry and Jamie Wooten took it over.

R261 I’m in the minority but I love those years. I think the middle seasons are the most stale and they have it the shot in the arm it needed. You can tell the difference in the energy the last two seasons.

Season 7 is the best of the whole series. When Sophia goes flying out that window? Lol

Sophia probably had secret mafia money.

*gave it the shot in the arm it needed.

R262: They did a lot to make Stan grow as a character toward the end. First, he went flat broke, then he got rich off the Zbornie and finally grew a backbone, and Dorothy almost wanted him back ... right up until the pre-nup.

One of the best parts of the last episode was Stan’s wedding present to Dorothy: the surprise limo ride to the chapel. It still gets me to see the look on his face after the cutaway from the minister saying “if there is any reason these two should not be joined in wedlock...” That’s what it took to realize he had lost her forever: to see her marry another man. This makes it as clear as day why his next two marriages failed. He never stopped loving Dorothy yet never figured out how to treat her.

The Sophia-centric episodes were the worst. Getty was good with one-liners but was a weak actress overall.

There's a reason Dorothy - Bea is the star of the show. Sometimes the toughest, most bad ass person in the room doesn't know answers. We're all fucked unless we start trusting each other.

R267: Her having trouble remembering lines was not laziness, it was a sign that she was in the early stages of dementia. They did not realize it then, but we know that now. Much like we know about Bill Cosby being a rapist.

R266 awww Mary I wrote about that here in one of the TV episodes that makes you “tear up a little” threads. That and the one where they pretend to be married for Uncle Angelo in Season 3, and he says to Sophia “nah, this one’s on the house.” I think that’s the episode Dorothy finally won her Emmy for.

He really should have won an Emmy at some point.

R267 I generally agree but some of the last two seasons of Sophia centric episodes were so ridiculous (like the nun one) that I loved them. The one where they asked her to be a “wife replacement” too.

Who thought of having that old woman pick out her replacement? That was bizarre. It almost reminded me of that short-lived show Rue McClanahan did after [italic]Maude[/italic] went off the air: [italic]Apple Pie[/italic], the biggest flop any of Norman Lear’s companies ever made, about a woman trying to pick her own family members. That was a bigger flop than even [italic]The Betty White Show[/italic] or [italic]Amanda‘s[/italic].

Who would pick Sophia as a replacement for a lovely, ladylike wife? Sophia was a nasty old bitch!

Someone who would lie and say she was his sister, that’s who.

Could've sworn Sophia's maiden name was Grisanti and her parents were Eleanor and Angelo Sr. and her siblings were Angela, Angelo, Vito and another brother and sister who were both un named.

Does anyone know if Stan really died in Golden Palace? I know he leaves before Rose and Blanche enter the room and only interacts with Sophia, but later on after the will is read Blanche mentions that he left all of his money to "some yutz in Madrid." Earlier he told Sophia that he faked his death and is on his way to Madrid which is before his funeral. They read the will after the funeral. So there was no way Sophia would know about Madrid.

No, he only faked his death. Sophia was the only one who found out the truth.

It seemed a bit ambiguous. Most people were saying he actually died and that Sophia (who by now was definitely showing signs of dementia like Estelle herself was) was hallucinating his appearances. One thing that bothered me was that Dorothy wasn't in that episode. It would've made more sense if she was there.

He specifically told Sophia not to tell Dorothy because she would probably rat him out to the IRS. They've had dealings with them before. He had to sell his Corvette to pay for taxes owed from the last few years of their marriage.

No. I mean she should've been at the funeral. They reconciled as friends and came to a mutual understanding when he drove her to her wedding at the end of the first series.

They were only willing to shell out for one Bea Arthur cameo a year.

How did she afford to live? Easy....she was a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. In many cases, fiction only has a loose correlation to reality. Not everything has to make sense.

Season 6 and especially season 7 are cartoonish and practically unrecognizable in tone from the show’s roots, but they’re at least light and fun and have a lot of good lines.

Season 4 and season 5 feel more true to the show, but have so many episodes that are just a drag to watch. They were less cartoonish, but they were also sort of dull.

I think what you prefer depends on what you want out of the show. If you care a lot about the “Heart” of the show and the dynamic between the girls, I imagine you would prefer 4 and 5 over 6 and 7. If you care more about the quality of the jokes and the light tone, you would prefer 6 and 7 over 4 and 5.

Thoughts on this theory?

Keep in mind I just accidentally took double the dosage of my allergy medicine.

[quote] Keep in mind I just accidentally took double the dosage of my allergy medicine.

Just like Rose. Except she kept "accidentally" doing it for 30 years.

Lucy O'Ball said "Don't let the plot stand in the way of a good joke"

R283, Who's Lucy O'Ball?!

She is the next Lens Dunham.

[quote] "Don't let the plot stand in the way of a good joke"

I suppose in terms of consistency this may have worked when you filmed 40 episodes per season and never planned on re-running them. But in times of streaming when old plots are re-watched all the time, you cannot do that anymore. I'd say it was negligent even in times when syndication was an option. It's just lazy and no longer ok.

R281: The problem is we had a funny show with heart and MAINLY believable characters and situations in the first 3-4 seasons, then BAM, they all become over the top cartoon characters in wildly unbelievable situations. In many ways, Season 5 is the demarcation between 2 almost separate TV shows. I'm with Bea Arthur, it should have ended at Season 4. There a few gems in the later Seasons, but most of them are crap over the top episodes that just rely on the fact that it's THE Golden Girls to get people to watch and enjoy.

Season 7 is funny. In my mind it's always been the 80's v 90's in terms of humor for this show. The older, stuffy seasons v fresher, over the top material. Our lives are believable and boring enough. TV (and film) is an escape from all that.

R288: We disagree. Over the top to me is desperate and dumb, not fresh. They should have ended the show at Season 4 and the started Golden Palace for the cartoony shit.

I think of the first 4 seasons as Afterschool Specials for adults. They centered on the issues of people with boomer adult children moving to the next phase of life. The later seasons were just straight up sitcom goofiness. Just goofy plots carried out by familiar faces.

R288 it was definitely more “90s humor” so to speak. I think that’s why it holds up better (for me) these days.

I guess for the best combo of both laughs and heart Season 2 wins — and the first half of season 3. There’s a significant dip in quality the second half of season three that continues into the middle seasons of the show. To me the last two seasons were a refreshing change.

Didn't realize Dorothy had been raped by Stan. I completely overlooked that. Damn, no wonder she was bitter:

I’ve thought in recent years that this sitcom made in the ’80s and ’90s might get called out by the media standards of our times: the obvious and repeated way the show jokes about the rape of Dorothy Zbornak.

It is referred to in many episodes, but Stan’s rape of Dorothy is most explicitly narrated in the episode “The Accurate Conception.” When Blanche’s daughter Becky is about to get inseminated at a sperm bank, Dorothy tries to make Blanche feel better by casually saying, “Among the four of us, we each conceived our children in a different way. I was totally unconscious. When I came to, there was Stan carving a notch into his dashboard.”

“I never bought that unconscious story,” Sophia says to her daughter.

“I swear, he must have slipped me something,” Dorothy says.

“Apparently!” Sophia retorts, to roars from the audience.

Dorothy said clearly that Stan drugged and raped her while unconscious, and the studio audience laughed uproariously. That rape conceived Michael Zbornak, and led to Dorothy being shamed not just into marrying Stan and staying with him for decades, but into enduring taunts from Sophia for getting “knocked up” before she was married for the next half-century. (I believe Dorothy’s omnipresent, seething rage for Sophia is rooted in that she went to Sal and Sophia for help after being raped, only to have them tell Dorothy it was her fault; that her mother rubbed it in her face in the subsequent decades may be why Dorothy has happy to ship her off to Shady Pines.)

-Vulture

But instead they canceled an episode with Rosalind Cash and Lynn Hamilton in it because Rose and Blanche walked into the room with mud packs.

[quote]Who's Lucy O'Ball?!

Say it outloud

Yeah Morothy was not raped. She was in denial. She was supposedly an intelligent lady who made a bad choice. She made lots of bad choices. I suppose her being friends with a Nazi or gambling or sleeping with her ex were good choices??

r291 That's pretty much how I feel.

I would say 2 > 7 > 1 > 3 > 6 > 4 > 5.

I put 7 over 1 because 1 has the episodes with Blanche's nephew, Glen O'Brien #1, Kiersten #1, and Polly Holliday walking around with her eyes shut.

Dorothy offers up different explanations throughout the show, R292. In another episode she says sleeping with Stan was her way of supporting the war effort.

"Stanley, that's what happened. Stanley. I went to a drive-in with Stanley. He said he was being shipped off to Korea, would probably die, and it would mean so much. That was my part of the war effort. It took three seconds. I wasn't sure that we had done anything, actually, until nine months later when the baby came. Then I figured out that we had. You know, that was my only proof."

Of course this conflicts with yet another episode where Dorothy recounts Stan saying "Paint my toenails, we've just invaded Korea!", implying that they were already together at that point.

R292 It depends on how serious you take such an accusation. I've heard several women of that generation saying "he must have slipped me something," as a joke excuse for their bad behavior. They don't really mean that the man raped them, just that they now accept that they don't know what they were thinking to sleep with him. I would think the studio audience laughed because they understood it as that trope. One older woman that said it in conversation about her first husband, and I thought she was being serious. I said then he raped you. She said "I'm not being serious, that's just what good girls say when we don't want to admit we were bad." And, then she laughed like crazy.

I took the 'slipped me something' as an excuse for 'I don't know what I was thinking'. I don't believe it was ever meant to be more. It's like my excuse "I don't know what I was smoking." I didn't smoke anything; I just made a poor decision.

Now THIS is the resume of a hospital administrator!

Yeah, he slipped you something. His DICK.

If season 5 is the weakest it's only because it had too many very special episodes. Even the Christmas episode was about homelessness even though the minister was hot. There were still some strong episodes in the mix. Blanche fearing she might not ever have sex again after getting a pacemaker was one of the better late-era ones.

Remember the episode where Blanche thought Rose was a slut for getting AIDS but then Rose told her off and Blanche got a pacemaker for karma.

Someone explain the terrible Rita Moreno episode to me. Why?! Which season? Who wrote that crap episode? Are the GGs even in that episode??!

Based on that pilot, it's a miracle that [italic]Empty Nest[/italic] the series managed not to be terrible. Even the unsold backdoor pilots on [italic]Diff'rent Strokes[/italic] and [italic]The Facts of Life[/italic] weren't nearly as bad.

[quote] Who wrote that crap episode?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Susan Harris wrote it.

This is funny when you consider that CBS put [italic]Golden Palace[/italic] right opposite [italic]Family Matters[/italic].

I just watched the episode where Rose wrote the letter to Gorbachev. The thing that really stuck out to me was the blue dress that Blanche wore to the press conference. My mother had the exact same dress, in green. But, my mother was a good 20 years younger than Rue.

My mother is a Baby Boomer and she's older now than Rue was on the show.

Now that I’m looking at the episode guide, season 3 in general just has a lot of stinkers (not just the second half of it like I always had in mind). Letter to Gorbachev is one of them. There’s definitely funny moments (Blanche’s spit take, and the line about Dorothy being able to build a snowman in June), but it was season 7-level absurd.

It was also slightly depressing. It was one of the only times Rose wasn’t just cutely naive and ditsy, but you truly were concerned about her and pitied her. She was simple-minded and that episode made sure she knew it. I just find it kind of hard to watch, especially when the letter turns out to not be that bad.

I know, MARY!!

I thought it was funny that she was inadvertently able to fool both sides into thinking she was a nine-year-old girl. It was also a twist on the Samantha Smith story, which is interesting because the show she was doing with Robert Wagner when she died, [italic]Lime Street[/italic], was on ABC up against it.

And Sophia got to do her killer Reagan impersonation!

Is Empty Nest streaming anywhere. Couldn't find it. But wasn't looking too hard for it either.

R312 lots of episodes on youtube but don’t know are they good quality

R313 I wish I could watch Empty Nest and Nurses again.

I just watched the Chronic Fatigue Syndrom two parts. Who got Bibi Besch into that episode? She has two lines, seven words total. What was that about?

Empty Nest was great when Kristy McLesbian was on it. Her and Dianah Manhuff were comedy gold. The show stunk after Kristy went mental but at least she was smart enough to hide and not embarrass herself.

R315 She was probably a huge fan and wanted to appear but had a tight schedule and could only do a cameo.

R316 Agreed. I loved it until Kristy left and it had that annoying other sister whom I wanted to cook alive and eat.

I get Bibi Besch mixed up with Barbi Benton. Double Bs. I think both were on Fantasy Island and The Love Boat numerous times.

Diana was too over the top. She was great mind you but they needed Kristy to take her character down. And the two actresses together were a great comedy duo.

Dr. Budd, I came to you sick—sick and scared! And you dismissed me... *checks cue cards* You didn’t have the answers, and instead of saying, “I’m sorry, I don’t know what’s wrong with you...” *checks cue cards* You made me feel crazy! Like I had made it all *checks cue cards* up! You DISMISSED me! You made me feel like a... *checks cue cards* a child, a... a fool... *checks cue cards* a neurotic who was wasting your precious time...

*VERY OBVIOUSLY FUCKING CHECKS CUE CARDS*

Is that... is that your caring profession? Is that healing? No one deserves that kind of treatment, Dr. Budd. NO ONE.

*VERY OBVIOUSLY CHECKS CUE CARDS AGAIN*

I suppose if I’d been a man, I would have been taken a little more seriously, and not been told to go to a hairdresser...

I don’t know where you doctors lose your compassion, but you lose it. You know, if all of you, at the beginning of your careers, could get very sick, and VERY SCARED, for awhile—*checks cue cards*—you’d probably learn more from that, *checks cue cards* than anything else.

You better start listening to your patients. They need to be heard. They need caring, they need compaaaassssiiooonnn!

Some day, Dr. Budd, it’s going to be you on the other side of the table. *checks cue cards* And as angry as I am, and as ANGRY as I always will be...

*checks cue cards*

I still wish you a better doctor than you were to me.

Dinah was a total shrew on Soap, remember?

Diana was far too young to be in Grease

Season 5 was the weakest for both GG and [italic]Empty Nest[/italic]. Lisa Rieffel was no substitute for Kristy McNichol and they knew it. Paul Provenza, one of the actors originally considered for the role of Coco, was as much a nonentity here as he was on [italic]the Facts of Life[/italic]. Marsha Warfield was an improvement, and it was good to see Sophia still be a part of it (and in one episode she actually does something about Shady Pines' problems) even if it was painfully obvious that she was doing her lines one at a time by now. The damage was still done and could not be undone. I remember seeing it listed as being one of the lowest-rated shows on TV by the time it went off the air, a far cry from its glory days and not even equaling what the likes of [italic]Diff'rent Strokes, Silver Spoons[/italic] and [italic]Gimme A Break![/italic] could get on Saturday night in the immediate years before GG debuted.

That also explains why [italic]Golden Palace[/italic] happened the way it did and that might have been the least worst option besides just pulling the plug when Bea said goodbye. Replacing her with another actress might have hurt the original show in reruns. So they made the last-ditch changes to keep it alive but did it for another show rather than calling it season 8. But they should have done it on NBC. Maybe a 13-week guarantee might have created an incentive to make it a better show and thus guarantee the back 9, but I doubt it.

R324 Wrong, kunt. Season 5 was the only actual good season. 1-4 were tiresome with lame jokes over and over. "Ma - why are you up? Someone left the lock off my cage" Fucking lame and brain dead. 6-7 were terrible because Terry Hughes left after season 5 and they had nothing but terrible directors. Bea hated GG without Hughes which is why she just never cared anymore. So fuck you saying that season 5 was bad when it was the only excellent season.

R325 = Dr. Bud.

Thanks, r325. Way to go overboard and wreck a thread that was civil until you came along. Let me fix that for you:

I enjoyed season 5. I am sorry you do not. Personally, I prefer season 5 over season 1 through 3 for the kind of humor and direction. But what do I know? This is just me. I'm glad you enjoyed the first couple seasons.

R327 Are you a stupid idiot and a cunt? I was defending season 5 when that fucker was attacking it. STFU.

[quote] I still wish you a better doctor than you were to me.

Say what you want, but I like the speech and these two episodes. There was a lot of great comedy and drama in it. Sophia had a couple really dramatic and funny scenes (She may have trouble digesting raw vegetable but she is not mental. / Her interaction with the Chinese doctor.) Rue got some great physical comedy about egg yolks. It was clearly over the top, but that's permissible in my opinion as long as it stays a single incident and doesn't become the norm. Rose got an interesting facet by taking on a leader / caregiver nurturing role in both stories. It gave her some sincerity she hadn't had before and still kept the humor. Just remember the double burial story.

NBC wanted to pick up the Golden Palace, but they said the show was a new show and wanted to pay the actresses less money than they were earning. CBS was in the middle of the Laurence Tish era, and at a low point and stepped in and agreed to pay the actresses what they wanted, so the show moved.

The doctor should've told Dorothy, "No, you loudmouth, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is just something doctors made up to get bitches like you to shut up. Now go take your psychiatric pills and get the fuck out of my face, before you get a bunch of fives across your face."

That made me LOL.

I hated her hair style in 1990-1991

r325 shits in every Golden Girls thread now. In one of our most recent ones, she said the quality of the material didn't matter as long as the director was good. LMAO!

You delusional queens would not know good taste or intelligence if it bit you in your toxic acidic snatches.

I saw Dr. Budd on a reurn of Cannon this morning!

I'd smoke bud if I had chronic fatigue syndrome. I could get it from my nephew. I guess he was the original Dr. Budd.

[quote] I hated her hair style in 1990-1991

And I'm sure her hairstyle hated you just as much.

Maude's nephew married Marcia Brady!

At least she didn't have the rolling gait of a nymphomaniac.

Maude was the best and the funniest when she was sparring with Archie Bunker. On Maude you had no one anywhere near Bea’s equal in talent which would have made the character and the show so much better in my opinion. But I’m sure Bea wanted it that way , which is I’m sure why she prefers it over GG.

It’s a shame most actors are like that, because the fact is great talents are at their best when they’re working with other equally great talents. I’ll always give someone like Mary Tyler Moore credit for that — she knew how to see the “big picture” in a way most ego driven insecure actors don’t,

[quote]Maude was the best and the funniest when she was sparring with Archie Bunker. On Maude you had no one anywhere near Bea’s equal in talent which would have made the character and the show so much better in my opinion.

This also happened in the final year of Designing Women, when you had BJ who was conservative and was able to stand up to Julia's rants and rationally so. But by then it was too late to salvage the ruins.

Agree, having an equal made Bea better. Maude v Archie is classic television. On another note, Weird how Republicans are still loony like Archie.

[quote] On Maude you had no one anywhere near Bea’s equal in talent

I was on that show, too, you monster! You think it’s easy to pretend to be madly in love with Connie Bain, you try it sometime!

Rue you should have had an Emmy for Maude too.

R344 she was totally unmemorable on Maude in my opinion. Honestly, I was never impressed with any of her TV appearances pre GG. Blanche was truly the role of a lifetime for her.

R343 thanks for that. So good. He was the best.

Did they ever explain when Blanche started living in her house? Did she raise her kids there? Was it an 'empty nest' for her and George? Or did she buy it right before the other girls moved in?

R347, what is It Takes Two???

R348, a sitcom starring Patty Duke, Richard Crenna, Helen Hunt, and Anthony Edwards.

R347 Funny that the kitchen, which seems very much a suburban Florida kitchen, was originally a Chicago high rise kitchen.

R342 Except for that stupid ode to the Clinton's inauguration episode, it seemed so out of character for BJ to be a big Clinton donor.

Back to GG. In season five they actually made Dorothy attractive, her hair, clothing, and makeup all seemed to get a big improvement.

[italic]Nurses[/italic] never seemed to figure out whose show it was, and continually changing the cast didn't help that much.

Both Nurses and Unhappily Ever After started out as vehicles for Stephanie Hodge but she got booted off both shows eventually.

[quote] Weird how Republicans are still loony like Archie.

That’s commie propaganda, pure and simple.

Why did Steph Hodge get booted from two shows? Is she difficult? Drugs?

r325, the Metamucil's on the top shelf.

Can you believe that backstabbing slut at r161?

[quote]Why did Steph Hodge get booted from two shows? Is she difficult? Drugs?

No, she was just...bad.

[quote] That’s commie propaganda, pure and simple. —A. Bunker

You tell 'em! At least I only had her for a neighbor. You have her for a cousin!

By marriage, Doc. Only by marriage.

Don’t go all Dr. Sigmund Fruit on us, huh?

Oh, believe me, Mr. Bunker, I tried my best to keep the homosexual agenda out of Tuckahoe when one of my fellow doctors and I formed Fathers Against Gay Society.

Stan was paying alimony and she was probably siphoning from Sophia's account.

How much alimony would Dorothy need if her children are grown and Sophia is living at home with her and getting Social Security and Medicare?

I love the gay bar episode of Maude!

I doubt she was getting alimony from Stan, or would have accepted it. They must have owned a house which was sold in the divorce.

Why would Dorothy humiliate herself by offering to do all sorts of degrading jobs for just €8?

That’s almost equivalent to &20/hr. today, r366.

Hardly degrading for side work off the books.

She could have been forced to clean some old guy's basement out after he's been hoarding for years. When she finally has the place empty the old man sneaks up behind a sweaty, exhausted Dorothy and whispers "Now I'm going to hoard you!" and with that he ties her up.

[quote]This thread and others make me think that Datalounge is basically a secret underground civilization of people who have never seen the actual world above. The only clues they have to it are some ancient videotapes of the complete series of "I Love Lucy" and "The Golden Girls," and they watch these over and over again, obsessing about them, going over every last detail, and wondering just how life in the sunlit world above can possibly correspond to the details of what they're seeing on the holy videotapes.

Plato's [italic]Allegory of the Lanai[/italic]

She wasn't getting anything from Sophia, R362. Dorothy was mad when she found out Sophia had been getting checks from Phil and Gloria, because she felt she could have been living in a swinging condo, instead of with a slut and a moron.

Why did you add the quote, r369? I have been so good blocking everything that spells Crazy. And now you're bringing her back through the back door.

R363 Alimony has nothing to do with children or what is "needed." It is for the less wealthy spouse to get their "fair" share. For a salesman like Stan, Dorothy would have a claim because she could point out all the entertaining she had done for his clients over the years. I had a relative that got a large amount of alimony, for that very reason. Her work entertaining his clients with dinners and parties was considered a key part of his success, so she deserved a share of his income.

[363] You're confusing child support with alimony. Also, Sophia was only in the nursing home a short while, so all the money set aside for that expense Dorothy could dip into.

[quote] I am incredibly confused by Dorothy Zbornak's income.

Every time I have to scroll past this sentence I wish I could kick the OP in the face. Wish Muriel would restore the "block thread" function.

R374 Block Thread works fine for me.

Alimony sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

[italic]All in the Family[/italic] was only funny when The Jeffersons were on it, and [italic]The Jeffersons[/italic] was only funny when George called Tom "h0nky." Norman Lear is a hack and a hypocrite.

I just watched the season 6 two part episode where Dorothy was going to remarry Stan. The wedding dress in that episode was lovely. If they could come up with that outfit for a mid-season episode, it is inexcusable that they put her in that toilet roll wedding dress for the series finale.

Thank god Betty is the only one still loving, otherwise we would probably currently be enduring a shitty reboot à la Roseanne where everyone except Dorothy is reimagined as a huge Trump loving deplorable.

[quote]For a salesman like Stan, Dorothy would have a claim because she could point out all the entertaining she had done for his clients over the years. I had a relative that got a large amount of alimony, for that very reason. Her work entertaining his clients with dinners and parties was considered a key part of his success, so she deserved a share of his income.

But Stan was mostly a failure until long after he divorced Dorothy.

Am I the only one who wanted to get fucked by Stan Zbornak?

Yes

Yes R381.

I’m afraid you’re ridin that train solo, r381.

R381 I think Jessica Fletcher might have had him when he was an NY Detective on her show but he's, you can have him honey

R79 Blanche would be the only one of the 4 who would be a Trump supporter.

Rose would have voted for Trump because she would have presumed Charlie would tell her to vote for a man.

R380 They went back and forth about that. At first, he seemed to have been fairly successful. He made enough to send their children to college, buy a corvette, and to be able to move to Hawaii with his second wife. Then they retconned him to being a massive failure, before he suddenly became a success with his baked potato opener.

The Golden Girls were not real people, stupid fucks. None of them woulda voted for Trump.

R388 don't forget he had enough cash to buy property on their honeymoon!

Anyone know where I can pick up a Zbornie?

Amazon doesn’t have them.

TIA!

Get them on eBay.

r389 needs a prune Danish.

R387 Rose would have voted for Trump because she was DUMB.

How was Rose the dumb one if she could get a better paying job than Blanche could?

r381 Meh. He was tall and looked like he had BDF to me, so... I wasn't lusting after him but I definitely would have.

Same goes for Dr. Halperin, as well as the psychiatrist Blanche saw who had a different last name the very next season. Oh and Dr. Budd as I already mentioned at r218.

I love how in every GG thread, at least someone brings up how much they hate the teen pregnancy episode. No one ever refers to it as the Blanche/Meryl episode. I guess technically it was the b-story but it has almost the exact same screen time as Mary. And it was hilarious. And the Mary portion wasn't so bad. There's way better episodes to hate, like when Dorothy and Blanche set Rose up with Issac Newton, played by the terminally unfunny Paul Dooley.

Why did some guest stars pronounce her name like Dorothy A-Zbornack/Dorothea Zbornack?

[quote]There's way better episodes to hate, like when Dorothy and Blanche set Rose up with Issac Newton, played by the terminally unfunny Paul Dooley.

That episode sounds similar to an episode of [italic]the Facts of Life[/italic] where Tootie made up a fake lover for herself.

I feel like people don't mention enough how awful the Witness Protection saga was. Is it because we try and pretend it never happened?

No, it's because they neglected to mention whether Miles' daughter was in on it.

One of my favorite things about it is that after "Miles" Nicholas Carbone leaves, the very first scene in the next episode is Rose casually saying some shit like, "Oh, Miles is out of town this weekend!" or something like that. Just so blatant and lazy that you almost admire their gall.

I don't think that was laziness as much as Rose being in denial. They cared more about the mechanics of the plot and the funniness of the jokes than the accuracy of how they represent the Witness Protection Program.

R402 Not only does she say he is out of town, she says he is Europe with a group of students, like the previous episode didn't happen.

Y'all better be careful - Frenchie is ON TO YOU

WE SEE YOU, WHITE FRENCHIE!

[QUOTE][R402] Not only does she say he is out of town, she says he is Europe with a group of students, like the previous episode didn't happen.

Did NBC air some episodes of season 6 out of production order? They did with the first season; the second episode produced was "Job Hunting" which didn't air until March 8, 1986. Blanche's Southern accent wasn't quite there yet and Rue still sounded the same way she did on [italic]Maude[/italic].

I hate that job hunting episode but I wonder why they waited so long to air it if it was the second one produced. Estelle's wig and bad acting, Rue's ditzy Blanche. It always feels out of place in reruns.

So what you hated the job hunting episode. So did Blanche!

Dorothy Zbornak was no Allie Lloyd.

LOL 409! That was the one good joke in that episode.

That episode also had Blanche's classic "jumpy as a virgin at a prison rodeo" diva walk down the hallway, so it wasn't a total loss.

Dorothy is at her most Maude/ish in that episode. Now THIS is a resume of a hospital administrator.

[quote] I hate that job hunting episode but I wonder why they waited so long to air it if it was the second one produced. Estelle's wig and bad acting, Rue's ditzy Blanche. It always feels out of place in reruns.

They wanted to bring Stan into the mix as soon as they could, apparently. His first episode was the second one aired and the third produced.

I don't know why she considered it a rez-you-may. It was a cover letter.

There's only like 4 or 5 episodes from season 1 that don't involve a family member.

R415 my favorite is when she says to Blanche (who says she’s Angie Dickinsons body double) : Oh really then why is it on your JOB resume??

As opposed to another kind of resumé??

Some of the things Bea put emphasis on In her line deliveries were ridiculously hilarious .

Totally R417 - Margyareet, goverNment, ladies aux-yee-a-ree

It's how Dorothy tries to sound more sophisticated than she really is. She's a substitute teacher, not the chair of the English department at the University of Miami.

Miles is what Dorothy aspires to be.

R419 and the way she said “process” with a long “O.”

You’re right about Miles. I guess that’s why they hooked up!

Miles should've been Dorothy's boyfriend. They were a much better fit. And she would've told Caroline to shove her English horn up her w-h-e-r-e.

Of all the jobs they could have picked, "Hospital Administrator" still blows my mind every time I hear it come out of Dorothy's mouth. ROSE?! HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR? And Dorothy was CONDONING that disaster?

She must have just wanted Rose to shut the fuck up and go to bed. She knew they'd see all the crossouts and rewrites anyway.

Maybe she already knew she had Morton's Nyroma and was hoping for a free surgery if Rose was hospital administrator.

[quote] Tootie made up a fake lover for herself.

Nobody does that.

[quote] ladies aux-yee-a-ree

That’s the correct pronunciation of auxiliary.

Dorothy was over her chronic fatigue syndrome

R425, that may be true, but I've never heard anyone pronounce it that way.

You need to accompany yourself with a more respectable crowd.

Like who, R428, The PLO?

I am watching the GG's kitchen starring in the Patty Duke sitcom It Takes Two, now on YouTube. DL fave Helen Hunt plays Patty's daughter.

Helen was Murray's daughter on the MTM show. That means they are related. Ewwww

How do you think I felt pretending to be his husband and her mother?

Told you guys it was real. It's a real illness and you guys dismissed me. Now covid vindicates me.

We've been dealing with social distancing for 5 months now. That's exactly how long Dorothy had symptoms before she was diagnosed.

I always wondered if Dorothy loved getting cunnilingus. We all know Blanche lived to be eaten out. But Dorothy was so mannish, bitter and toxic, I wonder if she could let herself go when anyone wanted to munch on her coose.

I don't think Dorothy was toxic. Sophia was, in the last two seasons. And if my mother had treated me like Sophia, I may have become bitter, too.

R436 You're probably the most toxic cunt alive. So you're not a good judge on what is toxic. Of course Dorothy was toxic. Always miserable. Always complaining that no one wanted to fuck her. Her nasty face was always toxic. Bimbo Rose was the opposite of toxic. She was a sweetheart. Dumb as a bag of rocks but sweet. Sophia was a cunt because of the stroke or so the writers said. Blanche was always a selfish narcissistic slut who was basically a gay man.

R437 go fuck off asswipe. Dorothy was not toxic

Jean used to munch on Dorothy's carpet when they were in college.

Dorothy didn’t have a carpet. She was ahead of her time.

That's why she's a DL hero. Dorothy was toxic because Bea Arthur was 100% toxic in real life. She hated everyone. Everyone hated her. She could never cooperate or just be happy like frau White or cuntess McLanahan. She was always DL's spirit animal.

You'd be toxic too if every week you had to hear lines about how ugly you are.

Especially working with that catty old tart Betty White

Toxic? Bea was a drunk.

I've been down a Golden Girls interview rabbit hole lately. I didn't find it weird that she didn't like to socialize, but two things I did find strange. She would only eat on the set if Betty was eating, and she hated wearing shoes.

R444 Bea's dick was legendary. Huge, thick, and veiny. She could top better than 99% of other men. Rock hard until the day she croaked.

r444, I may be too apologetic here, but her reference to her 'alcohol addiction' may have been just another one of her one-liners. It would explain her ability to function around extroverts though. Thanks for posting the link. What really interests me now is Angela Lansbury and her her mouth like a longshoreman.

I always liked her evening outfit with the Mardi Gras colors.

I had a dream that Bea fucked me last night with his huge cock. Damn you DLers for putting these thoughts in my tender mind. Funny thing is, I wanted him to fuck me. I said Can you fuck me? He goes May I fuck you. Tsk tsk. Even when fucking, he's toxic.

Alimony.

I bet Morothy did the a-nell

Why did Bea shit on Betty’s dressing room floor? Did they make Bea clean it up?

Bea seemed like the grumpy type 24/7 and I'm sure Betty's happiness 24/7 was annoying to Bea. Nice clips of Betty and Bea through the years . . .

I thought Bea shit in Betty's toilet and didn't flush not that she shit on the floor.

What a waste.

r452

And blamed Betty's dog. Didn't even have the guts to own it.

I made doo doos on Bettys dressing room floor.

Did’t Bea used to say that Betty started eating snatch after Allen Ludden died?

She was eatin' it before, because Allen was eatin' ass, nasty ass, hairy old man ass

[quote]I always wondered if Dorothy loved getting cunnilingus

She had a dingy

[quote]and she was even more “too Jewish to play Italian” than Estelle,

Nancy Walker (much like Valerie Harper) was not Jewish.

[quote]Even so, she was on a Fox show called True Colors at the time. There's no guarantee there wouldn't have been a scheduling conflict even if she hadn't died.

I would've filled in

[quote]Of all the jobs they could have picked, "Hospital Administrator" still blows my mind every time I hear it come out of Dorothy's mouth. ROSE?! HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR? And Dorothy was CONDONING that disaster?

The writers heard the word "administrator" and though it was like an "administrative assistant"

Bea Arthur is waiting impatiently in heaven for Betty White to drop in so she can peg all three of her ungrateful holes. Betty White is turning 99 this year. Jesus fuck.

[quote] I thought Bea shit in Betty's toilet and didn't flush not that she shit on the floor.

Either way, that explains why there were toilet paper rolls on Dorothy's wedding dress.

More confusing she got knocked up at 17, she is 55 (but looks 66) when her son Michael visits and he looks about 28 years old.

Golden Girls is one of those old sitcoms whose writers didn't bother to keep track of, or seemingly to care at all about, family histories, work histories or even the actors cast in various roles. (Didn't the show repeatedly cast the same actors in different guest appearances?) It seems like absurd humor and self-contained episodic situation comedy was important when they made the series and no one really considered or cared that people might one day "binge watch" many episodes back to back and be appalled by a lack of continuity.

R467: I think they did it on purpose because they wanted a change of pace from [italic]Soap[/italic].

R466 It was a fucking fictional TV show. It doesn't have to correspond perfectly to real life, you stupid twat. Estelle Getty and Bea have both said that obviously the two of them were Jewish and only racist Hollywood of the 1980s prevented them from being who they actually were. so they had to play the worst faux Italians in the history of tv.

[quote]so they had to play the worst faux Italians in the history of tv.

Excuse me?

R470 I don't know who that is, nor do I care.

Making the character Jewish instead of Italian would have changed how the jokes about her appearance were received.

[quote]More confusing she got knocked up at 17, she is 55 (but looks 66) when her son Michael visits and he looks about 28 years old.

And Michael and Blanche's grandson look exactly alike. I wonder what is up with that?

Dorothy shit on Rose’s bedroom floor.