25% of NYC renters have not paid rent since March

[quote]The lack of income from rent has landlords struggling to pay their own bills. A survey found that 39 percent of Big Apple building owners could only make partial property tax payments this month, while another 6 percent couldn’t afford to pay at all, as The Post reported last week.

I know everyone considers most landlords to be evil grifters (and maybe they are) but I have been wondering about this. Especially on the commercial side. Maintenance still needs to be done, trash picked up, water/electricity paid, etc. I just don't see how this ends well.

Trump and the GOP should pay for mishandling the Covid-19 crisis.

Yes, but I'm fortunate because I'm still fully employed and my income has not been affected by the pandemic

Isn't non-payment of rent the only way to evict tenants from rent-controlled or rent-stabilized units? Somehow, I doubt too many NYC landlords are losing sleep over this. If tenants cannot come up with rent in arrears they get evicted.

OP types poor.

How do you pay your $2,500/mo. efficiency apt. rent when you're an unemployed Cater Waiter?

[Quote]OP types poor.

Nope, not poor. Paying 3-figures in a 2-bedroom, 2-bath, rent stabalized apartment, in a posh part of Manhattan, that I acquired when the former tenant went to prison. Did the math with my accountant years ago. If I were to buy the same place way back when, my morgage would be 4x what I'm paying in rent and that's not including property taxes & maintenance. This is my primary residence that I rent out during the winter when I visit my family. I have no heirs, so when Im gone that's it.

Yes I’ve been able to pay my rent due to unemployment and help from family. I live in an overpriced apartment in Brooklyn but it’s just me. I am only a few minutes away from manhattan and I can say the bridge and Empire State Building from my bed. I do know some people who were able to pay rent but didn’t want to. Joke is on them when nyc allows evictions again

I missed qualifying for unemployment by $200 in additional earnings! Can you believe that shit?!?!

I've been paying rent from my 401k, early withdrawals. Thanks, you Chinese bastards!

R9 Like Americans needed more reasons to hate the Chinese, right?

Thank the first citizen of NYC, Donald Trump. It's no longer a China thing; the virus damage is purely on Trump and the sycophants who enable him.

1. Residential evictions won't likely be happening for months, well into new year. Long as any part of a NY county is shut down in whole or part by covid-19. This is due to law signed by Cuomo last week.

Does it really matter if evictions are forbade until the new year if you STILL can't pay after evictions are reinstated?

2. Good news is that OTOH 75% of NYC renters did pay rent, so things aren't totally bad.

People who get SSI, pension and other checks each month have no reason not to pay, they still have income.

That 25% is a mixed bag really, but mostly made up of two or three groups; illegal aliens who cannot get unemployment or other federal assistance even though they were working (and have for decades) in NYC. Those with various issues in getting unemployment such as self-employed, independent contractors who cannot supply DOL with proper paper work. Finally you have people living in roommate situations where rent is say $4k per month split four ways. Well if only one person is working/can pay rent but doesn't have that whole $4k, they all are in trouble.

Finally you have a good number of "cancel the rent" people who aren't paying out of principle. These are same idiots out there marching for BLM and other anarchy. They feel no one should be paying rent right now, so aren't. Since LL's for now cannot evict them there isn't anything that can be done.

Anyway you slice it things are only going to get worse for some people.

Even if they cannot be evicted, LLs can still seek and obtain a monetary judgment. That is going to screw up people's credit for ten or more years, and make finding another apartment difficult not just in NY but any place else. All landlords nowadays use tenant screening services, and those judgments will pop up.

For those still unemployed that extra $600 will end July 24th (program officially ends July 31st, but you claim UI starting Sunday for previous work week).

NYS unemployment isn't generous and most certainly cannot pay rent on just those checks alone.

32% of US households will miss their July payment. That means they will miss August...September...etc.

Another stimulus injection can only carry them so far.

Be careful with these stats as they can mislead. First of all how many don't pay during a normal month . How many can pay but are noT?

It makes sense not to pay, if you can afford to as you can't be evicted and the law requires the landlord to work with you. So if you can pay, hold the money and when your financially sound, pay it all quickly.

It's very difficult to evict in NYC, however landlords have to pay mortgages and if they can't pay the tenant will have issues. Usually banks bundle and sell loans, so it's not like the old days whereas banks will work with the landlords as they don't want the unit.

No mortgages are bundles and sold in full or pieces to holding companies as commodities. This means you can find yourself in a situation where the building is simply shuttered.

Hold up - this is a report by a group who owns rent-stabilized apartments.

So it's 25% (supposedly) of a select group of rent-stabilized apartments from an organization that wants to kick these people out badly.

Bullshit. And I don't feel sorry for landlords - the vast majority of NYC landlords have become extremely wealthy over the last 20-30 years with the price increases.

Again - Bull. Shit. This is just an article planted to get the owners of these properties some sympathy.

Agree with R18. Landlords are also unsympathetic to small business owners, who have not been able to open their retail spaces for months. Imagine having zero income coming in, but you are still obligated to pay $20,000/ month and above back rent for your restaurant or shop. No wonder so many people are going off the deep end.

"Rent"? What is this "rent" of which you speak?

R20 = homeowner in Bumfucke.

[quote] and I can say the bridge and Empire State Building from my bed.

Pfffft. We can ALL do that. (Deaf people excluded.)

I can see Russia.

Eddie Murphy on SNL

"Images" by Tyrone Greene

"Dark and lonely on the summer night.

Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.

Watchdog barking - Do he bite?

Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.

Slip in his window,

Break his neck!

Then his house

I start to wreck!

Got no reason --

What the heck!

Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.

C-I-L-L ...

My land - lord ..."

Is it time for a rent strike?

Postrevolutionary pioneer: Anarchist María Luisa Marín and the Veracruz renters' movement

Compañeros: ¡Viva el amor Universal! ¡Viva la emancipación de la mujer! ¡Arriba el Comunismo! ¡Viva la humanidad libre! ¿Mujeres? ¡A la lucha! María Luisa Marín, 1923

When female prostitutes in the Veracruz working class neighborhood of La Huaca quit paying rent to their landlords in February of 1922, they sparked a social protest that would soon involve more than half the city’s population. Fed up with bad housing conditions, excessive rents and constant harassment by rent collectors, residents of some of port’s poorest neighborhoods along with local anarchists and members of the Mexican Communist Party founded the Revolutionary Syndicate of Tenants (Sindicato Revolucionario de Inquilinos) directed by local agitator Herón Proal. As the mobilization grew, protesters first called for specific housing reforms but then added a number of other demands influenced by the internationalist ideals of the time : the abolition of private property, the emancipation of workers and the eventual elimination of the state.

article at link

R18

Regulated apartments make up > 60% of all rental units in NYC. Thus it's pretty difficult not to be a LL of rent stabilized units unless we're talking about new construction. Even then due to fact it cost so much to build housing in this city developers won't do "affordable" rentals without some sort of tax abatement or other treatment. That in turn puts units under rent stabilization either permanently or for a given time period.

FWIW outside of Manhattan (largely below 125th street) bulk of rent stabilized tenants are minorities, and often paying 33% or more of their total household income towards rent.

Yes, in parts of Manhattan you still have white middle class and above households holding onto rent regulated apartments. But most of them are late middle aged to senior citizens. This aside from small groups of younger people who either won affordable lottery apartments or their apartment/building fell into rent regulation because owner accepted state or city funding (those tax abatement and other schemes).

R20

Your comment makes no sense for NYC, a place where nearly 70% of households rent their homes.

Wow from R14's article:

[quote]Look at 25-year-old Jessica Lee and her husband, who needed four roommates to afford their $4,000-a-month four-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn’s hip Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, a relative bargain in the Big Apple. Now her husband and everyone else in the house have all lost their restaurant jobs and she’s the only one still working—at a company making hand sanitizer. The landlord is threatening legal action to collect the $20,000 in back rent.

It never occurred to me about landlords collecting back rent. Honestly I'd rather just be evicted and get it over with. No way they will be able to pay $20,000.

I am sympathetic to the loss of jobs and income ,but I will say this... You can live without cable,you can live without hot water,you can live without many luxuries,you can live without electricity even,but you cannot live without a roof over your head . Period. If 5 people cant come up with $4000 a month somehow,then maybe that isnt the apartment for you . I dont know if it was because my dad was a depression era kid,but he always stressed you must pay for housing,even if you cant pay anything else. I lived my whole life thinking that and its stood me in good stead .

R29, you shouldn't make assumptions about other people's circumstances. I know a guy who lost his job. He has roommates, but is the only one among them who cannot keep up with his rent. Why? Because he sends the bulk of his salary to support his brother's widow and her 3 children in another country. The guy was doing fine then he receives a call that his brother was killed for speaking out against the current corrupt government that is siphoning off funds that were intended for the poor.

[quote] in Brooklyn’s hip Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood,

Never thought I’d live to see the day Bed-Stuy was considered “hip,” and not in an ironic sense.

[quote] Honestly I'd rather just be evicted and get it over with. No way they will be able to pay $20,000

It doesn’t work that way. Even if you’re evicted you’re not off the hook for the rent. The landlord will get a judgment like a credit card company would.

Otherwise you’d have people agreeing to pay rent, stop paying and get evicted with no consequences. All the while the landlord doesn’t have the rent.

Once you sign a lease you’re on the hook. Depending on the wording in your lease, it could be something similar to (assuming $1k/mo rent) “we are loaning you $12,000 payable in 12 equal installments of $1,000 due on the first of every month.”

I’m curious what happened to all the waiters and bartenders I know. ALL of them were living paycheck to paycheck barely covering their rent. Many had been in NYC for 20+ years. I would be surprised if they left NYC - but can’t imagine how they are paying their rent. Even with things reopening, it’s likely months before bars and full restaurant service begins again. How are these people surviving?

Rent dodging is a big problem in the Hamptons right now with summer rentals and renters who fled NYC back in March. In some cases, landlords only have a verbal agreement because they thought they were renting to "the right kind of people." LOL!

R33, some of them left and are now living with relatives or friends.

R32

Exactly!

In NYS non-payment housing court proceedings can result in two types of judgments; monetary (back rent) and possessory (lease terminated, LL takes back apartment). State how has said for duration of pandemic LL's can only get possession (eviction) under certain circumstances. otherwise they must content themselves with monetary judgment alone.

Monetary judgement often aren't worth the paper they are printed upon. Many who are evicted in NYC are judgment proof; that is they don't have large assets to take, thus at best a LL can enforce a lien by garnishing wages or whatever. Judgments in NYS are valid for twenty years, and can be renewed if not satisfied.

Most LL's would often be happy with just getting the apartment back, especially if it was below market rent regulated unit. Previously they could gut renovate and use other methods to get new legal rent up over $2k per month and unit out of RS. That is no longer possible after 2019 changes in rent laws which may in end harm some tenants.

If a LL really wanted the apartment for above purposes previously tenant (or his/her legal representative) would be offered a deal; leave and LL wouldn't pursue or obtain a monetary judgment. Maybe tenant surrendered security deposit which helped take one month off total back rent due. In theory a LL could then turn around, gut renovate etc.. and in the end have an apartment that gave him more than what was lost on deadbeat tenant.

Yeah R32 I’m sure you are right. What I meant was not waiting for eviction. After the 2nd month I probably would have offered the keys in lieu of back rent and moved in with family. I know not everyone has that option, but I would have explored it heavily before racking up a $20,000 bill.

New Jersey is staring down same issues....

One expert was quoted in another article as saying that 20 to 28 million people in the US will be homeless in the coming months.

^^We're here for you! We have places all set up.

The landlords are voting Trump. This is not good since the tenants won't bother to vote.

R28 Renters cant just move on like that. In most states, an eviction on your record is PERMANENT.

Person in their mid 20's finds work after college in the big city. Works their way up the ladder. Ends up laid off after 5 or 6 years of work. Or a pandemic hits. Bam. They have no way to pay their rent. No place to go. Maybe they're on a lease with one other reliable person who also lost their job. Or they are still working but roommate lost their job. They can't pay rent. They're totally fucked. No savings. So they move out. They still may be on hook for cost of remainder of the lease even though they don't live there anymore and can't afford it. Or they get evicted. On their permanent records.

Now take a straight couple in the suburbs. Husband makes good money, they buy a house for $300K. Same mortgage payment as those renters pay above. Wife doesn't work, pops out a few kids. They go on vacations. Two nice cars leased. Bam. Same pandemic. Their mortgage company doesn't force them to make payments while they try to sell the house. Maybe they're idiots and go bankrupt anyway. It will be off their credit in 7 years and they can repeat the cycle. All the time they were in that house, they got a tax deduction for their mortgage which helped pay for vacations, home upgrades, expensive luxury items once in a while. They'll be fine. Meanwhile, hard working renter above is just fucked forever.

R42 that’s why you shouldn’t rent your primary residence. I know when you are starting out it’s usually the only way but always buy when you can afford to, even if you have to downsize. I was stupid to rent for as long as I did. If I could go back I would’ve told my young self to buy a “cheap apartment “ at the time which would now be worth around $1m. But hey, you live and learn.

Forty percent of Texas renters unsure if they can make their next payment

[quote]An indicator that presaged the housing crisis is flashing red again

[quote]New mortgage delinquencies hit a record in April, well above anything seen during the Great Recession.

[quote]Some 3.4 percent of Americans became at least 30 days delinquent on their mortgage in April, according to a new analysis from CoreLogic. The real estate data firm’s figures include about three of four U.S. mortgages, going back to 1999.

more at link

Where do you live, r43?

To be fair, if you can afford to live in NYC, you should have at least 6 months rent in savings. Otherwise, move!

R47 Then there would be no bartenders, waitresses, street sweepers etc in NY. What is needed is affordable housing for those on modest wages.

R46 Boston. Not quite NYC but 20 years ago you could buy affordable apartments in the city. Now not so much.

For NYC residents who latched onto a below market rent regulated apartment home ownership may not have made sense. This is likely behind the very low rates of home owning in city.

It is a proven fact investing in S&P 500 brings better returns on average over a given period than owning a home. Those who rent but still save/invest likely will be fine in end.

Renting also suits persons with a transient nature. You are literally free to pack up and move whenever fancy strikes.

Of course now it is nearly impossible to find a "cheap" rent regulated apartment in NYC. But then again not everyone plans to end their days here either. So renting is a better option for them than owning even a condo.

My house is paid off but still have to pay property taxes (which can now be done monthly instead of quarterly) and insurance, which comes to about $550/month. And yes, have kept up with it because fortunately I am still employed so far (my husband has been furloughed).

And 32% of mortgage holders were unable to make their July payment.

Anybody buying a house right now is stupid. The coming foreclosure flood is going to drop home values like a rock. Again.

I own a house. Well, not technically own as I have a mortgage on it. It's a co-op, which is fairly normal here in Norway. I own the "inside" of my house, everything on the outside is covered by the co-op. If my roof starts leaking I pay zero for it to get fixed, same with the windows etc. I do pay a monthly fee though, which is quite expensive. But a lot is included in it, shoveling in the winter, mowing the grass in summer (all of the area outside is owned by the co-op and shared by the owners), house insurance, taxes for water, tv and internet etc. I have my own patio though, of course.

Wish I could live in NYC for free for four months in spring and early summer. Even if most stuff is shut down. Just sayin'.

I have a rent stabilized apartment and it never made sense to buy. Fees and RE taxes on a coop would be as much if not more. Rent stabilization is the only thing that keeps long time NYers here in a lot of cases. The majority of 50-somethings I know have decamped to cheaper pastures in the past 10 years.

I do think prices will come down now - studios are flooding on the market now and I’m seeing rents below $2,000 - which is shocking as that means they have fallen back into rent stabilization. No one wants to be stuck in a studio apartment now and landlords - who have been used to renting vacant units in a day - are sitting on a record number of unrented below-$3,000 units.

R55, that is strange because I haven’t seen any evidence that rents are going down in NYC.

Supply and demand principles have been thrown out of the window when it comes to rents.

R56

it's really a case by case (or building by building) thing. Some LLs are willing to offer reduced rents, others aren't.

Most are offering various things like one or two free months rent or something a bit less tangible than lowering asking rent.

Also believe it varies by location. Don't see rents coming down much or at all in Manhattan, outer boroughs are another matter.

I think the insane $3,000 250-sq ft studios in places like the West Village will take a hit. Makes no sense to pay a premium to be in a super small space just because of access to bars, clubs and restaurants - because they are all closed. And given the need to spend more time in your apartment, people will likely choose a decent 1-BR in Brooklyn over a super-tiny studio in the Village.

Think for many young people (who still are working and can afford the rent) allure of living in Greenwich or West Village or any part of Manhattan below say 96th street is still there.

Yes, bars and clubs are closed for now, but there are still things people can do, and you're still right in the mix.

R55

After age 50 or thereabouts people need to start thinking about how they are going to manage in retirement/older years.

If you live in a rent regulated unit with dirt cheap rate, and savings/retirement money will keep (hopefully) wolf from door, things should go fine.

But if finances aren't what they should be, you're living in a fifth or sixth floor walk-up, or just cannot see yourself ending days in city, then it's time to make that move.

Happily for many they bought back in the 1980's or 1990's (if not before) and their apartments have appreciated enough that they can sell and live comfortably elsewhere.

No, you don’t R54. You have no idea what it was like here.

The real estate fallout in Manhattan hasn’t even begun. It’s going to be very ugly. Commercial real estate is going to be a catastrophe.

Let’s hope so r62

If people for whom NYC never made sense financially do get evicted, it will probably be a blessing for them. It will nudge them to look for work and housing somewhere more sensible.

Rent in Brooklyn? I don't think so...with all the shootings, no thank you.

NYC soup kitchens are now serving grad students, actors and musicians

I say good, because landlords are greedy pigs...completely greedy. A few might be humans but not many.

R67 agreed. You just know these slumlords owned/bought in the 70s for pennies on the dollar. I hope they go under.

Thing is for many there just isn't any place else they can go....

Up until say 1980's and early 1990's it was still possible to find a rental (even rent stabilized) that wasn't insanely expensive. This was true even in Manhattan where you could still find areas that were "undesirable" on various levels.

Large parts of Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen, East Village, Lower East Side, Yorkville, Upper West Side, Morningside Heights, Harlem, Inwood, Washington Heights, etc... still had RS apartments that may have not been in greatest area (or condition), but rent was doable and you still were in Manhattan.

If you couldn't swing Manhattan there was always Brooklyn, especially Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights...

Now everything is super expensive unless you're willing to venture way deep into Harlem or far eastern reaches of Brooklyn. Even then you're paying rather dear to live in what still are basically hoods.

Rent relief is available in CA....

City's creative class is in deep trouble. Side or even main gig jobs are gone or greatly reduced in number. Performing art venues aren't expected to open until January 2021, but who knows if that will happen. If nationwide or international travel bans for NY are still in place many theaters or events may not attract nearly enough to be worth keeping open.

R71 The covid situation is so horrible at the moment I doubt the venues can open early 2021. A month ago it looked possible but because WH the situation has gone from okay to bad. NYC is doing better at the moment and hopefully won’t open up too soon.

R72

That's all very well but what happens to all those under and unemployed as mentioned in R71?

Places are closing, and many likely aren't coming back. Fear is soon as terms of PPP loans are satisfied even more restaurants, bars, etc... will start closing by start of fall. This is going to hit gay community hard as many will be hit from both sides, their main jobs in performance or other arts are shut, and their side gig jobs are gone as well.

Famed Odessa Cafe in East Village couldn't make it work either, and is closing down.

R73 I wish I knew the answer. So many people are so near falling out of the entire society. It’s scary terrible and reality for too many, including too many gays as you mentioned. All of the sudden the life we knew is gone.

Perhaps Stonewall bar has right idea....

It probably doesn't count, but because my partner owns the house I live in, I have been able to pay him 25% more than I usually do because I have been able to save money by not spending it on anything else. I have lived here for seventeen years.

Run that by me again?

You pay money to your partner to live in a house that by law is half yours already?

How does that work?

NYC has never made sense unless one is earning enough to afford to buy a decent apartment, which is someone who consistently brings in over $250k a year, a salary that only a tiny sliver of New Yorkers bring in.

There are so many NYCers in their 40’s and 50’s with little to no savings, no significant retirements, and no real estate holdings because their incomes—even if they bring in high five or low six figures—because they get eaten alive by taxes and rent.

I think the pandemic as well as the highly destructive BLM protests—which curiously were condoned and even encouraged by big city mayors—will lead to a mass exodus from large cities, and cities like NYC and SF will be most affected by it. So expect residential real estate prices—both rental and owner—to plunge in the coming years in city centers while suburban and even rural real estate will explode in popularity.

#78 He owned the house before I moved in, and we are not married. He still has a mortgage, and our state does not have Common Law marriage. I have enough money of my own.

My neighborhood of Wash Heights has gotten dirtier and more violent with shootings and gang action. Most of these people live with govt assistance and do not work and have no interest in working a legitimate job. Easier to show no income and run the streets for money. The people who do work and pay taxes are falling by the way side and soon it will be only the takers left in the area without the workers who pay the taxes and full rents to the landlords. The city cannot keep playing this tax and spend shell game forever. The system will break at some point soon.

R81 - the good news is you will be able to move to the lower west side as rents plummet. Wash Hts was fine when the city was gentrifying - but now you don’t want to be in an area on the edge.

Scumbags.

It sounds horrible. Not only dealing with a deadly pandemic, and loss of income. But also shelter. Somehow make it through and then have destroyed credit. I wish the best for people in this situation. I hope they make it through somehow.

Yesterday was final tax day for Americans, and so many one knows had no choice but to put what was owned on credit cards.

IRS interest rates on late payments is rather low, but one racks up penalties and fees against unpaid sums that are not paid when due. Thus in end even with an installment payment plan cost of financing that "debt" can be rather high.

With money tight in many NYC homes, and that $600 extra UI ending next week plenty just said "what the hell"......

Sad thing is none of what is going on now affects 2019 taxes; given high number of gays who are self-employed, small business owners, independent contractors this covid-19 thing hit at worst possible moment.

R85 most people get a tax refund and don’t put it on a credit card.

R86

No, that is not correct.

Those who get tax refunds are normally employees, and as made quite clear in my post situation applied to self employed/small business owners.

Many Americans get refunds (sometimes rather large) thanks to a curious and odd habit of over paying taxes though out the year by over with holding. Upon tax time the file and get back a "refund" which essentially is all the money they've lent federal government for a year interest free.

You hear low to middle income people go on every year about plans for their tax returns, as if they've just received some sort of bonus money.

Here's what I wonder: nationwide, if people are evicted for rent arrears, to whom will landlords rent all the empty properties? To people who've been evicted elsewhere?

Depends on location, type of property, local housing market, monthly rent.....

[quote] All of the sudden

Oh, dear!

R30, oh boo fucking hoo. The widow can work. Isn’t that feminism?

R86 you’re kidding right?

Most people that are ndependent contractors and the self employed - owe money.

What is rent?

Only losers rent. Buy a fucking house for chrissake!

A renter of a rent- stabilized 1BR in the Village for $756.

R95 - jesus, how many years have you lived there to still only pay $756? Must be like 30 years?

And if you're name isn't Jesus, I apologize. (lame joke)

27 years

R97 - well you found a fucking deal. I lived in the West Village 27 years ago and paid $1200/month for a 350 sq ft 1 BR.

I'm not going to ask how - but I wouldn't fucking move either if I were you. I don't think you can find a 1BR for that amount ANYWHERE in the US.

R95 I’d watch your back. Cars have a habit of hitting people in your situation.

How do I apply for “rent stabilization”???

Heres what I dont get when it comes to all these small business loans... with covid raging with no end in sight,how effective is it really to keep pumping money into some small restaurant or store when it seems to me like the changing of society is only just beginning . We may never be "normal" again ,so is it wise to take out $30-40-50,000 in loans to prop up a failing business ? Same with renting. If your struggling like mad to pay rent with your job either gone or close to it,why keep struggling when who knows what 3 months from now will bring ?

I have no sympathy whatsoever for landlords. None. This pandemic is a karmic payback for the years and years they fucked over tenants. If they lose their building? So what? Who cares? New Yorkers as usual see this as all about them. There are states that are completely on the landlord's side and for years have been squeezing people to death. so go try living in one of those states and see how long you can rack up a 20 grand back rent.

Landlords have to be culled in the Trump stupidity bulldozer as all of us are in everything we do now. Did they think somehow they would dodge a pandemic real estate collapse?

All the good restaurants in the West Village are gone. Only expensive ones with average food. $25 for a burger and drink means you are helping to pay the landlord his exorbitant monthly rent. I moved uptown 15 years ago and don't miss my grungy Perry Street apartment at all.

NYC IS OVAH!

Economist predicts an avalanche of defaults that will make crash of 1929 look like a tea party.

R105 Prof Wolff - nice to see him! He taught me in Marxist political economy in Paris a million years ago.

You all said Manhattan rental prices would never drop. Look it's happening.😬

R107 I'm so excited for this! I looked at a place last week in the UWS. It was in a nice townhouse, had a private outdoor roof - cheaper than it would have been a few months ago. But I think rents will drop even more come sept/october. So I'm holding off until then. There is a TON on the market right now for it being July. The summer is normally the busiest for rentals - because it's lease turn over time. Most people that would move from one apartment to another within the city, may be deciding to just let their leases not renew, if they are working from home, and to temporarily relocate to a less expensive area until the mess is over. Others may be unemployed and behind on rent in where the landlord won't renew.

From the article:

For instance, a studio at 145 W. 12th St. in the usually coveted neighborhood of Greenwich Village listed at the end of June for $2,700 a month, then decreased its price by 8 percent to $2,495 five days later. (It is still on the market for $2,000 following two further price chops.) In nearby Soho, a one-bedroom rental at 104 Sullivan St. hit the market for $2,800 in early June before lowering its ask to $2,650 by the end of the month.

YESSS! It's happening - NYC rents are dropping and I couldn't be more excited!!

Not to curb your enthusiasm, but these are market rate apartments. There is no upside on renewal increases so whatever discount if offered with one lease can vanish with the next.

One of many reasons why so many rentals aren't moving this summer is the tons of new grads that normally arrive to begin first jobs in city, haven't. This or they are part of the growing word from home movement.

market will not expand up for a long time

R110 I’m well aware - I’m a real estate broker licensed in manhattan. This is normally our busy season. It’s not just new grads - it’s everyone that moved to nyc in the summer months (most do) therefore old leases are always ending in the summer - that’s when current residents also move to larger places or different areas of the season. Move in with SO’s etc. that’s not happening nearly as much at the moment.

I do not live in Manhattan but want to change that - however I’m never moving into a studio - I have pets. I also only wish to live in the UWS or west village - I’ve lived there before

20 years ago I had a rent stabilized apartment off Columbus at 71st - i should have kept it. But I got rid of it after 9/11. It was super tiny - 200 square feet or so, but it would have been a great crash pad a few nights a week when I would work late

It was cheap but I moved to Boston and got rid of it

I no longer live in Boston, but moved back to the area and commute into nyc.

[Quote]Not to curb your enthusiasm, but these are market rate apartments. There is no upside on renewal increases so whatever discount if offered with one lease can vanish with the next.

Not if you can score a rent stabilized unit. Increases for rent stabilized apartments are frozen for the time being. Even without the freeze, increases are decided by the rent guidelines board, which is typically about 2%.

R113

Well before covid-19 hit landlords were warehousing below market RS units. Much of that was in reaction to new rent laws passed in 2019 that took away ability to gut renovate old RS units, get the rent > $2000 and apartment out of RS system.

Only way you'll get such a unit (especially in Manhattan) is by knowing or being related to landlord.

Several friends who live in RS units have reached out to their landlords about finding cheaper apartments because covid-19 has altered their financial situation. These people knew there were empty units in their buildings and had approximate idea of rent because knew previous tenant. All were flat out turned down, and when asked about vacant units response was "we're saving those for someone else".

Many LLs of RS building long avoided "lifers"; people looking to move into a cheap rent regulated unit and remain for ten, twenty or more years. Rent stabilization rewards long term tenants at expense of everyone else. Until it was taken away by 2019 changes in rent laws LL's got a vacancy increase each time a new tenant moved into apartment. At 12%-16% per renewal those increases raised legal rent and became permanent part of.

As noted in this thread only ones today with below (sometimes well below) market rent RS units are people who moved in nearly thirty or more years ago, and never left. I know people paying over $2300 per month for crappy RS studio apartments in Yorkville or UWS.

Well r114, $2300 for a studio were I live in Hudson Yards is a great deal.

My best pal lives in a rent stabilized unit and pays $1,130/month. She’s lived in the two room studio since 1997, and she’s an artist and teacher. I think that’s appropriate, and these rent structures were intended for that purpose. I made a bit more, and bought a small place in midtown in 1998. I don’t use it often but hope to when I retire. I hope it holds its value. I feel estranged from NYC and hope it stabilizes economically. But things for now are so uncertain. My work has taken me out West, and I followed opportunity. I would never want to be broke in NYC. It’s a harsh environment, even with money.

For those that cannot pay their rent, Albany is offering assistance.....

This is so sad nobody should be facing homelessness in a country like the US. Especially during a time of crisis.

It’s interesting -Manhattan studios are falling below $2,000 - which puts them in rent stabilization. Curious if LLs leave it empty for a year until rents come back up. I’d be surprised if they are willing to rent below $2,000 - but that’s also a good chunk of money to forego.

R119

No, it doesn't. Market rate apartments only become rent stabilized if landlord takes specific actions. Mostly this involves accepting some sort of tax abatement or treatment in exchange for putting unit or units under rent regulation.

Otherwise market rate units remain just that; you can move in with a fire sale rent of $1500 this year, only to have LL tell you next year he wants $2500. Only restrictions now is how far in advance market rate tenants must be informed about lease renewal conditions.

R95

Got lucky.

NYT piece from 1994

Interestingly it was a good deal even 27 years ago - started at $400. But if you had told me I would be there 27 years later, I would have been depressed. It’s a little like golden handcuffs - you are strongly discouraged from leaving NYC or buying a place when your rent is less than coop fees.

In retrospect, I’m glad I stayed in NYC - until about 5 years ago. I think all the creative and gay baby boomers started to leave the Village - cashing out and moving to Florida or Hudson. So all that was left was the wealthy. Buildings that had 20 rent stabilized units filled with creative low to middle income gay men became a single family home occupied a few weeks a year by a billionaire family. The cheap restaurants all closed and were replaced by overpriced chic places - that closed after a year. Fortunately the gay bars remained - but they are less relevant as I get older. Now I’d be happy to leave.

[quote] So many people are so near falling out of the entire society.

Moving back home or to a more sensible location somewhere else is not falling out of society.

R123

Know plenty of older middle-aged and seniors both gay and straight who feel exactly same way. They are in a sense stuck with those golden handcuffs as it were..... They'd never find anything else in Manhattan much less NYC for less money than they are paying now in rent, also with same protections of RS. This even though in many cases living in a fourth, fifth, or sixth floor walk up apartment when they are > 65 and mobility impaired isn't the best thing.

Others complain everything about area they once knew is gone, and many of the friends/people as well. Often even moving out of city or state wouldn't help because there just isn't anything that could be found for less rent, and again those rent regulated protections.

Fortunate ones have savings, pensions and investments so paying that below market rent isn't a hardship. But plenty others have just SS and maybe small pension or whatever. If your rent is $747 and your SS check is around $1100 (or less), that is not good.

R113

No, that is not correct. Average renewal increases for RS units prior to BdeB's handpicked liberal/progressive RGB was around 3% for one year and 5%-6% for two years. It is only again because current administration has leaned on RGB to pass three years of zero increases, then a few of very (very) low that you've seen 1%-2% increases. This is by no means backed into cake; there will be a new mayor in 2021 and RGB will begin to change, and or be subject to whatever influence comes from that direction.

Large percentage of remaining RS units are outside of Manhattan, and mostly occupied by minorities who cannot afford legal RS rent. That is why year after year people show up at RGB meetings crying for rent freezes or roll backs.

Some people are going to be sorely disappointed if they believe NYC rents will plunge to something like 1990's or even 2000's levels.

Things may decrease short term for certain parts of city's RE market, but that is likely to be at the upper reaches. The gap between what is affordable to large numbers versus supply is likely still going to be huge.

NYC is dying, slowly but surely. DeBlasio has created a city where the influx of people (tens of thousands) have no education and are coming for the free housing and other social services. No other place in the USA is as generous as NYC these days. The middle class cannot afford the high taxes and are sick of the crime and grime and are relocating out of the city when given the chance. The middle class backbone is cracking at the weight of so many new citizens who need taxpayer money and now with covid the strain is even more evident. The city is under a lot of strain and the ultra liberal policies of DeBlasio is doing irreparable damage. With different leadership and some really good economic luck, the city will take a full decade to bounce back, if at all. Pray for a miracle. Pray that the city can survive another year of DeBlasio.

R128, if a huge chunk of the population gets wiped out by the pandemic, landlords may have no choice.

R128 if the economy sucks and people that are working are working from home rents will absolutely fall dramatically.

I am confused, how does working from home make rents fall?

Job layoffs and unemployment I can understand, but if you work from home you get a paycheck and can pay rent.

R132 you leave NYC if you can work remotely

Yeah, as long as you can get internet access, it doesn't matter where you live.

Jesus Christ is there one fucking thread in this place that hasn’t been invaded by the Trump Nazi fascists?

FUCK OFF R129. Go back under your rock.

Agree R135. We all have to be aware of the very real possibility that there are paid conservative operatives posting inflammatory posts here. Scarily it could be Russia or Trumps campaign - the agenda seems to have merged.

R129. Not a Trump supporter or Nazi, just someone who can see NYC is dying under DeBlasio's leadership. Your point is greatly dimished when you just throw out insults.

No, it’s not. Shut up. Blocked.

R132 people don’t want to work from home in a tiny cramped up studio That they are paying 2800 a month in rent for. If offices downsize (or worse close altogether) there will be an influx of available commercial rentals as well.

Companies feeling the financial effect of corona aren’t going to keep as many offices open. My company already closed a couple in Cali - and I’ve a feeling ny will be next.

My will finally be a true renters/buyers market - it’s about time!

But if bars/restaurants and entertainment venues are closed - the demand may not be their either for those that wanted to move to the city - even at reduced rents

I’m not r129 but crime has definitely gone up under DeBlasio

R129, link?

“It’s interesting -Manhattan studios are falling below $2,000”

Link?

“two room studio“

What?

“a record 6.7 percent off asking rents. That amounts to $221”

Ridiculous. That won’t make the slightest difference.

Call me when it drops 25% or more.

R144 are you a scared landlord? You seem in complete denial with reality. If nyc landlords want to play the game of not renting apartments because they will have to lower the price - let’s see how long that lasts

I lean towards agreeing with 135. But r129 is just a bunch of opinions with no real facts or figures to back up his his assertions. He is More likely a real a trumpster. Apparently, he has been drinking the kool aid giuliani has been laying out.

See facts at link below. The attack might have mentioned De Blasio by name, but it was really another attack on states and cities run by democrats.

I lean towards agreeing with 135. But r129 is just a bunch of opinions with no real facts or figures to back up his his assertions. He is More likely a real a trumpster. Apparently, he has been drinking the kool aid giuliani has been laying out.

See facts at link below. The attack might have mentioned De Blasio by name, but it was really another attack on states and cities run by democrats.

I have no problem with the liberal granting of benefits in NYC. We have plenty of millionaires to pay taxes to support the poor. And even as a middle class NYer, I don’t mind paying 6-7% more in taxes because I make at least 25% more here than I would elsewhere for the same job.

The issue is BdBs incompetence, arrogance and cluelessness. I want a competent intelligent progressive mayor. DdB is just an idiot. And a wholly ineffective manager.

He’s a letdown, for sure. Inept, ineffective, lazy, possibly corrupt. It’s all true.

But at least he is not a republican. Everybody in NYC would be dead by now if so.

Who’s the schizophrenic Queen defending DeBlasio and seeing Russians EVERYWHERE!!!? DB is a sack of shit along with his grifter wife.

He was not defending BdB - he was shooting down the conservative poster who thinks NYCs problems are because we give out free money to the poor and thereby encourage people to flock to our city to live the glamorous life on a few hundred dollars a month in a run down housing project in the Bronx. Which is a stupid Republican myth that only clueless idiots believe.

R151 well DeBlasio basically gives out free money to people who become present-day slaves. Then allows the rich to get richer.

R151 STFU Janbot, keep your kunt shut.

R153 is rude with a brain that cannot come up with a statement of fact thus resorting to insults....ha

You can't Grindr in the burbs as easily....people stay in the gay ghettos for sex

R123

Now you know why so many rent regulated buildings are Naturally Occurring Retirement Communities (NORC). People moved in twenty, thirty, or more years ago and never left. Now they are 65 and up in age but also virtually trapped in those apartments because nothing else is out there they can afford, and much less comes with same protections as rent regulation.

Yes, some better off older or middle-aged persons leave their rent regulated apartments. But they have income or assets that allow them to do so. Maybe they inherited property from family. Or, simply move someplace with lower COL (including taxes) so their retirement income goes further.

There was a proposal in city council to get private landlords to make apartments rented by seniors more age friendly. Things like adding grip bars near toilet, walk in showers, those sort of things in exchange for property tax deduction. Don't think it moved very far or at all.

You have to give a BIG money donation to DeBlasio and his wife for any hope of your legislation to move forwar to law. It has to be a BIG amount of you can forget it. Mayor Bitch tits is so honest and honorable.

Has no one noted the flood of Chinese nationals into the midtown Manhattan rental and owner markets? It would not suprise me to see bilingual, English and Mandarin, signage popping up around Hell's Kitchen soon.

Perhaps the Chinese and Hasid Landlords can fight it out in the streets of HK - Tong Wars style.

R143 A “two room studio” is sometimes used to describe a small apartment with a living room and a separate kitchen that fits a dining table. Because the living room has no closet and because you enter the apartment into it, it is not quite considered a bedroom, even though you sleep there. So the phrase used by the real estate agent at the time was “two room studio”. It may be archaic now. I looked at several units like this, essentially one “living” space with room for a daybed, and an “eating” space consisting of an efficiency kitchen and room for a table. The door between the two rooms differentiates these units from alcove studios. I see them often above stores on the upper east side and East Harlem and sometimes in the East and West Villages, and lower East Side.

Have always understood that "two room studio" simply means an apartment with separate kitchen instead of a Pullman type kitchenette that is part of main (only) living area.

East Side of Manhattan from Midtown on up to UES, parts of UWS and some other areas of Manhattan are full of these "two room" studio apartments. Many went up in the 1960's through 1970's (replacing old tenement or row house buildings), and were seen as a step up from "efficiency" apartments with kitchenettes that are part of one room.

I’ve never lived in a studio. The thought of it horrifies me. It’s like a hotel room but without any of the amenities. 🤮

R145

Large landlords who own tons of multifamily such as Blackstone, Cammeby’s, LeFrak, A&E, Related, F Cornerstone, S.W. Management, Glenwood Management, Columbia University and Stellar Management (among others) will be fine. They are well capitalized and have access to credit, plus since their holdings are diversified a hit in one area can be made up elsewhere,or at least negated.

It is small landlords from single - three family homes, or those that own maybe one or two walk-up apartment buildings that will likely take hits. They cannot afford to carry nonpaying tenants, nor can they lower rents below certain amounts because that impacts financial stability of building.

Contrary to what might be popular belief there is money out there buying up multifamily properties. If small landlords can no longer make a go of things they will sell; which in end will drive more apartments under control of a few landlords.

R163

Add in the knock on effects of commercial tenants refusing to pay rent, employee telecommuting, 1% urban flight, and insane people in charge - then the chances of NYC being trendy in the 20s seems irrational.

[quote]25% of NYC renters have not paid rent since March

Many people will have to return back home.

R165, we don't want them back home. You take 'em.

~The parents

If there was a chance to keep rents high by getting rid of DeBlasio and his crony wife, the landlords of the city would push him out in a NY minute.

[quote] the demand may not be their either for those

Oh, dear!

R135, you don’t have to be a trumper to hate deBlasio.

Well?

The dominoes are falling.

People aren’t prepared for this economy to get exponentially worse.

R171

No, not really....

Reading is not your strong suit, is it R172?

Yes, it is; and if you also read the article crisis or whatever some are whipping up is largely in lower income households including rent regulated units. Market rate tenants are managing to pay rent on time in pretty decent numbers by now.

Where weakness in rents overall is happening at upper end of market, which doesn't help "poor" or even some middle class households. Furthermore I live here and thus between local NYC media and other reports can extract other information.

Huge problem with this so called "rent crisis" is you have large numbers of illegal aliens, who everyone knows were working in city now are unemployed. They cannot get UI , that $600/wk, stimulus checks and other federal or even some state aid because of their undocumented status. The other shoe are those who for various reasons cannot supply state DOL with proper papers to certify UI benefits. Plenty of people along with illegals were happy to work off the books when it suited, now they cannot prove income and worse they are out of work with not much shaking....

The end of August will be interesting.

No extra $600/wk, lockdown, most small businesses closed...NYC is a shitshow.

28 million people shall be evicted soon! Cray. Cray. They should try to be slaves for those of us with homes and jobs lol. Sell some ass to get a roof over your head as bitches been doing for thousands of years.

R176

This is gonna be fun.

Boogaloo 2020.

Coups, revolutions and disasters, they're all bargain basements.....

Yes, it will be interesting to see how things roll by end of August or September if that $600 truly goes away and isn't replaced with something similar.

An extra $200/wk likely won't help many New Yorkers due to high rents here; at least before with that $600 one or two weeks of unemployment checks paid rent.

Know people who've saved about two to three months rent by not spending all of their unemployment; so they're good maybe until September or October, but that also means they may have to cut down or stop paying credit cards, loans, etc.....

If Biden wins in November, and worse (for this situation) democrats gain senate seats in a substantial way forget any further help from DT and Mitch McConnell. Neither will feel any compulsion to help any further, so likely won't. Thus whatever is hatched out with ongoing Heroes Act better be able to last until January 2021 after new administration and Congress start work.

I hope Melissa Miller will be OK!

when does eviction ban end in ny?

It does and doesn't

Also.....

IMHO it is stupid and irresponsible to keep telling people "no, you can't be evicted", but meanwhile a LL can seek and likely will obtain a monetary judgement for back rent owed. So what happens when this pandemic ends, as it surely will sooner or later? If these people rack up two, three, four, five or more months of rent how are they going to pay that money down?

Meanwhile if anyone thought landlords were taking these blanket eviction moratoriums lying down, think again, because some aren't.

What states seem to be doing is shifting a problem from one group to another; that is working under assumption all property owners can absorb months and months of tenants not paying rent, but cannot be removed from apartment.

[quote] IMHO it is stupid and irresponsible to keep telling people "no, you can't be evicted",

Beats the hell out of throwing them out onto the streets in the middle of a pandemic when they were probably only temporarily laid off from their jobs.

I live in BK. I moved into my apartment 14 years ago and my rent just hit the thousand dollar mark last year. If it wasn't for the cheap rent, I'd have had no choice but to leave NYC. I can't imagine how folks are paying more than 2k rent. I've had the chance to move to bigger units but I hold onto this studio because I can't give up the cheap rent.

R184 - EXACTLY. Capitalism will ensure that whatever temporary cosmetic benefits the poor get now will just leave them worse off. It’s insane that BUSINESS got a forgivable grant to pay their expenses for 2-3 months but people just got a “you can pay later” IOU. There needs to be a revolution.

R185

Even with a low average rent of $1500 after three months a person would owe $4500. Consider most of these "low income" households are already paying 33%-40% (or more) of monthly income towards rent, how are they going to pay off back rent of nearly five grand and still pay forward rent on time?

If case went to housing court likely a stipulation agreement would be worked out but no LL is going to accept back rent paid off like a multiyear installment loan. Three or four months is usual with six or maybe seven rare and quite generous.

Even at six months we're talking about an extra $450 per month on top of current rent. That would bring this example up to an effective rent of $1950 for those months until back rent is paid off. Just don't see how many of these people are going to crack that nut.

This is why many are calling still for rent cancellation, not just various moratoriums. People know this so called light at end of tunnel for many just might be a train.

State and various private sources have rolled out some rent assistance, but even with $100 million of federal funds it still is no where near amounts required.

Cuomo, BdeB and NYC government like LA, SF, and many other places largely are hoping and praying Congress allocates huge sums for rent relief as part of Heroes Act. Don't see that happening as CA and NY alone would likely need billions each to cope.

And yet r187, Trumpanzees will tell you Capitalism is the only way to go. They will keep supporting a system that works against them and their children, as they absurdly assume they will eventually get a slice of the pie and the "others" will get nothing.

R186 Smart cookie. I admire your pragmatism. I bought a studio in midtown east and have kept it as a pied a terre and for my retirement home part time when I am ready for that. I am a big believer in living well in a small space. When I enter my little place In NYC,I feel the freedom it offered me over the years. And now things are engineered way better for small spaces (dishwashers, air conditioning, refrigerators), so you can get almost exactly what you want for the spaces you have. Staying in a smaller place lets you live closer to the things you want access to, also. Stay small!

Latest from the trenches......

Rent abolishment will never be a thing because it's a possible Constitutional violation. Contracts are constitutionally protected and the state can't interfere into valid contracts between private parties - ex. leases. Every LL in the state would challenge any rent abolishment law under the Contracts and Takings clauses of the Constitution, as well as a possible tortious interference argument in states where those claims are recognized. The states can't even indefinitely suspend evictions, because that could also be considered a violation of the Contracts clause. The best solution would be for states to institute rent assistance programs which pay up to 60% of the rent until this crisis passes. These 1200 checks ain't shit.

If rent = mortgage, yes.

Anyone who uses “Trumpanzees” loses out of general principle.

R193

Forbearance and eviction protections only apply to multi-family where federal government owns or holds the paper. It is not the same thing as private lenders or owners.

On state and local level governors and or local elected officials subject to various laws and or emergency orders have attempted to address forbearance and so forth with paper held by private companies.

How successful and for how long these measures will be still is a work in progress. Lenders and others are lawyering up and suing states and or local governments over these acts claiming everything from being unconstitutional on down.

[quote]BREAKING: Harris County Commissioners Court has just committed $10 million in rental assistance, and an additional $25 million in direct financial assistance for the hardest hit Harris County families. Stay tuned for more. - Office of Judge Lina Hidalgo

Houston, TX, is mostly in Harris County. A county judge is the CEO of the county.

See? If NYC wanted to it could do same. Start with finding that nearly one billion Mrs. de Blasio cannot account for to fund such a scheme.

Wait - you want to subsidize landlords? Make the landlords forgive rents. The American bias towards capital vs people is crazy. Like PPP - why do we spend money supporting business so they will stay in business - rather than sending the money directly to the people who need it? Trickle down benefits are as bad as trickle down economics.

R186: You live in a Burger King?

I am a born and raised native Manhattanite and never, never, have I heard any area of NYC referred to as BK. You have a habit on these boards of "creative" abbreviation, a most annoying habit as your lingo is understood only by you.

R200 I really don't give a fuck. I've lived in BK for almost 30 years and yes, we call it BK. So you'll deal. Or not. As I said, Fuck Not Given.

R199

What is it about contract law you and others do not understand?

No government nor court can invalidate legal contracts except under most extreme situations. Even then such as a declared national or whatever emergency holder of contract would have to be made whole. It is a simple fact of USC and the takings clause.

After wars and other upheavals sooner or later government either federal and or state has to deal with sorting out claims from property owners and so forth to compensate them for what was taken.

Federal or state governments can no more cancel rents than they can order your employer not to pay legally earned wages.

Even the most liberal, progressive and some would say wacky states such as California or Washington has gone with cancelling rents. Those governors might be hugely progressive and liberal, but they aren't stupid. They know such an action would involve their states in endless litigation that they most certainly would lose at SCOTUS. Then they would be stuck with not only paying property owners for what was taken, but penalties and fees piled on.

Only way to "cancel rent" is to give LL's something in kind. Either pay them the rent tenants cannot or will not; or offer something like tax breaks.

For those who have forgotten their high school civics lessons, and or maybe were at school when the subject was watered down if not abandoned, allow me to bring you up to speed.

"The Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution reads as follows: “Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” In understanding the provision, we both agree that it is helpful to keep in mind the reasons behind it. We agree that the Clause is intended to uphold the principle that the government should not single out isolated individuals to bear excessive burdens, even in support of an important public good. When this happens, the payment of “just compensation” provides a means of removing any special burden. The most influential statement of this principle is found in Armstrong v. United States (1960), where the Supreme Court wrote: “The Fifth Amendment’s [Takings Clause] . . . was designed to bar Government from forcing some people alone to bear public burdens which, in all fairness and justice, should be borne by the public as a whole.”

Despite what AOC and her woke followers or others may believe United States is not some socialist nation.

R200 - I'm another native Manhattanite - BK is an abbreviation of Brooklyn that is used all the time, especially now in texting - like many abbreviations it is written much more than it is spoken.

R203, you really need to lay off the crack pipe. Neither contracts, nor the Constitution means anything to the present administration. Did you miss the fact they sent Federal troops against the Mayors wishes to some cities? These unidentified para-military troops (which companies are contracting out these mercenaries? How much are said companies charging? Whose cronies are the owners of these companies? Follow the money trail) have been documented kidnapping minors and other people off the street and taking them away in unmarked vehicles, no reading them their rights, no statement of their charges and no identification of even who the fuck these goons are.

The court starts hearing cases next week.

R205

Your comprehension of constitutional law is almost as ghastly as that stupid fucking cunt AOC.

Basic economics courses should be required for any college graduate. I’m assuming you didn’t finish high school since you posted something so fucking retarded.

R207, none of what I wrote is retarded. You're just too dimwitted and arrogant to process it.

The Constitution is meaningless to Trump. Don't you get it, asshole? He is the law now. There is no legal mechanism that will keep him from doing whatever the fuck he pleases. There's no turning back. The ship cannot be righted.

Don't bother crawling back on here. You've already been blocked - too stupid to live.

Mature response, r208

“Wahwahwha, somebody is challenging my stupid point of view so I’m going to block them”

You really don’t know anything about constitutional law, do you?

Crazy Trump fanatics on this thread. Ugh.

R210

I don’t like Trump, but I think he is less corrupt than Biden. I think that there are a large minority of gay people who feel the same way. I don’t post very often on DL, but lately I see more comments that I agree with!

Painting every Trump supporter as a racist, and allowing White SJWs call Black people Ni**ers because they won’t vote for Biden, are another reason I suspect Biden will lose.

Any good deals yet?

Trump who worked in tandem with Russia cheated to get elected. Trump hides his taxes. Trump who bribed another leader to dig up dirt on his opponent. Trump who calls other republicans-republicans he appointed-Obama hold outs and democrats when he fires them for not doing his illegal bidding. That Trump you find less corrupt than Biden. Dude your head is up your ass.

Well? Since when are NYers so quiet?

83 percent of NYC restaurants, bars unable to pay full rent, survey reveals

Well, that's no good.

R215

NYC is going to be the epicenter of the financial meltdown. Distortions to the fabric aren’t evenly spread, but what is happening there will be replicated throughout the Western world.

Get out of large cities ASAP.

When Biden gets elected and cancels the rent, they will be happy they didn't pay. In NYC the eviction moratorium will likely go on into mid 2021 or longer with the Democrats back in power.

[quote]I missed qualifying for unemployment by $200 in additional earnings! Can you believe that shit?!?!

R9, that doesn't sound right, especially not if you're referring to a one-time payment of an extra $200 you received. At most, that should make you ineligible for unemployment pay during that one week. But even if you're getting an "additional" $200 every week from somewhere, that still shouldn't make you completely ineligible for unemployment compensation. Maybe you should check into this....

R215

Not surprising....

No indoor dining; there is only so much a restaurant can make on take-out and outdoor dining. Places have been rushing out the latter, but there is only so much curb/street real estate available.

Bars are fucked.... More so now since Cuomo stabbed them in the back by saying drinks must and should always have been served with food. So now state inspectors are out shutting places down (by suspending their booze license).

Things are going to get worse, much worse with that $600 now gone.

Wait staff and other tipped hospitality workers now on UI basically are getting less than minimum wage on average.

Those who were laid off early on and thus got several weeks of UI & $600 hopefully managed to put away something. Those just being laid off or were in past few week get nothing or only got a few weeks of PUA.

Think current situation is bad? Wait until fall; after October 1st when terms of PPP loans start to expire all sorts who got that money (including hospitality) will be free to lay off employees. By most calculations many will from airlines on down.

What they don't tell you is last year at this time 30% of NYC renters hadn't paid their rent since March 2019

I imagine landlords will have losses to offset their taxes this year.

[quote]will be free to lay off employees. By most calculations many will from airlines on down.

Some have already put out WARN notices and made it public.

Cuomo has extended eviction ban again, now pushed back to 4 September.

How do you fix this no rent situation. If someone didn't have the 1 months rent in savings, in March, they are not going to have 10 months back rent in the fall.

I thought the whole idea of paying people more in unemployment is that they can afford to pay rent. So where is all those sweet checks going. Oh let me guess, people are saving those money and not paying rent. Isn't it supposed to stimulate the economy from April to July since people will spend more. Now before some of you groan me, I am not referring to those making much more before they got laid off. I am addressing those making way more now that we're making less before.

It is actually much worse than that already.

Evictions Cuomo and courts keep stalling are those where possessary judgments (warrant for eviction) were issued back in March but not executed due to covid-19 shutting things down.

Given the slow and tenant friendly nature of NYC housing court these cases (especially for non-payment) likely begun in January 2020 earliest. Most likely however cases commenced in December, November, October of 2019 if not before. When or if these moratoriums are lifted you're going to have people that have lived in apartments rent free for nearly a year or close enough if not longer.

Again those are just the cases that have to go back to square one. Then Cuomo, and local NYS governments have to face or otherwise decide how to come to grips with all those who haven't paid rent since March or April in whole or part, and each month they remain living in apartments not paying rent.

These people cannot pay forward rent, so don't see how they are going to pay off back rent while keeping current. Landlords aren't going to want several, thousands of dollars paid off in monthly installments of $100. Some of these tenants may end up on hook for ten grand or more when this is all over.

Clearly Cuomo keeps punting and stalling in hopes Congress will pass some sort of expansive rental assistance as included in Heroes act. That or at least reinstate that $600 extra unemployment so some can keep paying their rent.

OTOH as walk around my area (east side of Manhattan) clearly some people are simply moving out instead of waiting for ax to fall. Each trash day you see visible signs people have moved house. Much to delight of dumpster divers, scavengers and other garbage pickers.

OTOH you have to call BS on some of these stories being picked up by media as examples of dire plight of NYers.

Case in point:

"Evan Spigelman used to bring home $3,000 to $4,000 a month by juggling multiple theater gigs—from performing live in drag shows, to working behind-the-scenes as a stagehand. In March, when Spigelman was working an electrical gig at St. Ann’s Warehouse in Brooklyn, his income streams all came to a halt as news broke that Broadway was shut down.

“You saw an entire room full of stagehands completely lose their income and completely lose any sense of security that they had,” he recalled. He qualified for just $184 a week in unemployment benefits from New York, which works out to barely $800 per month, not enough to cover his rent. But another $600 from the federal CARES Act kept him afloat.

“This made it possible to live,” said Spigelman. It also meant he could stay in his Brooklyn apartment and not risk exposing himself or others to the coronavirus."

This person claims he was making $3k-$4k per week! At even low figure that is $156k per year, and after just three or four months he is broke and desperate that without $600. Something just doesn't add up.

That kind of money is more or equal to some professionals bring in each month, what did Mr. Spigelman do with all his money each month over the years? His plight sounds more like unfortunate choices than anything else.

R230

$3-4K/MONTH, not week.

He was earning around the low $40K range.

R231. Even if he was making 3k a month he should be able to pay rent. Everyone that was making that extra 600 can afford to pay their rent. I hope most landlord take all those grifter tenants to the cleaner for not paying rent since march.

R226 - yikes that pic of Cuomo - dude needs some botox STAT

[quote] OTOH you have to call BS on some of these stories being picked up by media as examples of dire plight of NYers.

I agree on your principle though.

The news recently had a story of a woman who was going to be evicted. She read the eviction notice to the reporter and it said, “...having not paid rent for 9 months...” and the first thing I thought was “the pandemic has been going on for about 5 months. So right off the bat she was behind 4 months in rent. FOH!”

Under normal circumstances non-payment cases in NYC can drag out in housing court for several months. Much of this has to do with pro-tenant bent of judges and others who will do whatever they can within the law to remain. This even if it means LL is raking up several months rent that will never be paid.

It all boils down to one thing in the end; there are vast numbers of people in NYC who simply cannot afford to live here. They don't need "affordable" housing but low to very low income, something that is in very short supply.

Each time there is some sort of major disaster in NYC (9/11/01, super storm Sandy, now covid-19) same issues arise for same groups of people.

Here's the thing; Cuomo and courts keep stalling, meanwhile back rent keeps piling up.

Obviously between "cancel the rent" movement and actions by some state and local politicians towards that end idea is to get landlords to simply excuse all this debt. That's not going to happen in a large way, so you have to wonder what will be plan "B" or even "C".

Sooner or later these various moratoriums are going to end. What are people going to do when they owe five, six or maybe even ten thousand dollars (maybe more) in arrears?

I’m extremely lucky, I live in a small midtown building and have a wonderful landlord - I’ve been here for years and he has never charged me as much as he could. The extra $600 made it entirely possible to keep paying rent; and I’ll go hungry before I stop paying him.

The collapse in rental payments by commercial real estate tenants in New York is catastrophic.

The owners of the buildings still have to pay property taxes, insurance, and mortgage payments, but have little income from ground level rental units.

The massive downgrades in commercial mortgage backed securities #CMBS are imminent.

Most pensions and insurance companies own CMBS since they are “safe”.

Once they are downgraded to “junk”, the largest holders of those securities will be statutorily prohibited from owning them and will begin to liquidate them wholesale.

I would rather try to catch a falling knife.

What a stupid poll. Many Dataloungers own homes, and most of us do not live in NYC.

people keep saying "if they got the $600 per week, they should be paying"

Millions of Americans ARE STILL WAITING FOR THAT MONEY. Maybe they'll get it eventually. But the influx of unemployment claims left a backlog of nearly 1 million people in Florida alone. So yes, they might get that money. In the meanwhile, they havent paid rent, havent paid bills, now have damaged credit, and are waiting for the benefits they paid into.

America closely tracks the vacancies and unpaid rent percentages of big corporations that own expensive buildings. They don't follow the mom and pop landlords as closely. But those landlords make up a huge percentage of the real estate out there. The eviction crisis is not just tenants not paying rent--its the shitshow that happens when the landlords get foreclosed on.

R241

Those (usually) retired people depend on those rental payments for expenses.

The tsunami is still WAY out to sea, but some people see the huge crest in the distance and are running for their lives.

Retail Chains Abandon Manhattan: ‘It’s Unsustainable’

NYC looses its appeal during apocalyptic events.

See: Escape from New York

What's the normal month rate for non-payment of rent? It's not 0%.

R245

For NYC; knock yourself out.

New York is over.

O

V

E

R

over

NYC eviction pause extended (yet again), until 1 October 2020.

Some people have been living rent free for nearly or more than a year now, with really no certain end in sight for LLs.

You can bet the egg money come late September there will be another extension or similar action.

R248

Is your problem congenital or recently diagnosed?

Whatever it is strongly advise you seek professional attention; and soon.

That was a great scene R248.

R249 - how can people have been living rent free for over a year? The pandemic didn't start until March.

R247

Many leases end from June to September as it coincides with young people arriving in NYC to start their first jobs after college. Many of that demographic for economic and or personal reasons have opted not to renew, and are leaving city.

Then you have those who have been economically or professionally affected by pandemic (and or NYC/NYS response), and they too are making tracks.

These and other situations coupled with a large supply of new inventory built over past several years means there is lots of supply out there, but demand is weakening.

Some however are seeing opportunities and making their move.

R251

Evictions that were scheduled to go in March were stopped; and haven't been carried out since.

It takes on average three, four or more months for a non-payment case in NYC housing courts to reach final outcome with possessory judgement issued. Thus it is almost certain those who were scheduled for evictions in March were first served three day notices (demand for payment of back due rent), sometime during fall or early winter of 2019, in some cases maybe even before that time.

Much of this will depend upon what sort of lease (or not) covers tenancy. Market rate tenants have fewer built in protections than rent regulated so eviction take less time. OTOH rent regulated non-payment cases can drag on for three, six or more months thanks to certain "rights* tenants have per laws. Such tenants have far more protections built into rent regulation laws and thus can prolong things for long periods of time.

Judges can grant up to six (6) month say of eviction for market rate tenants, and up to twelve (12) months for rent regulated. Not sure if changes made in 2019 to rent laws give the former same amount of time as latter.

I am not a greedy person, so if I can finally find and afford a $1500 a month small 1 bedroom or good size studio in Wash Hgts sometime in early 2021 I would be over the moon. Up until now, I have been stuck in the boondocks because I cannot afford anything in Manhattan. Not expecting the posh areas, just the Hgts. and will be ok.

Anyone from that area think it will be possible, I am curious. Thanks.

What terminology do I use to negotiate with landlord if I want him to reduce rent by 200 when the renewal comes up? I like the apt and area but rents in the area lower now. I hate moving, the hassle etc.

Any landlords out there who want to give up some secrets?

R236. I guess all the money they saved from unemployment goes to their landlord. The judges will rule that they have to pay owed rent.

R254, you may get your wish once this is all over.

$1500 for a one room studio is insanity for most parts of the USA, but here in NYC it is elusive, even today, but hopefully that will change and become a real thing and the gays can return to Manhattan!!!

I miss the 90s vibe and energy of the former gay enclaves in Manhattan, like Chelsea & The Village.

I think apt prices are just as high in most places, not only NYC. And now, the people who have fled NYC have gobbled up all of the rentals up the Hudson River. There's no chance for creatives w/ low incomes.

There's a real danger in finding out that these picturesque Hudson River villages (both sides of the river), could now have contaminated water like Newburgh. Some of the towns and villages have been taken over by Hassidic families. They dominate the local city councils, elected offices, + wrecked the schools.

Here's one transplant's apartment hunting experience.

I think a $1,500 Wash Hts apt is very doable. Studios in the Village that were $3,000 last year went for $2,200 recently. And with the elimination of vacancy decontrol, less incentive for landlords to do renovations to jack up the price. While sales prices may not fall as fast, rental prices seem to be taking an immediate hit in many areas. A good time to rent.

Vacancy decontrol only applied to rent regulated apartments, and even with new laws passed in 2019 there is still a way round.

That being said chances of a below (or well under) market rate RS apartment becoming available to masses is nil to zero, at least in Manhattan and other prime areas of city. Landlords have gone old school and begun warehousing apartments not long before ink was dry on new regulations.

Maybe a small LL who needs cash flow will be forced by circumstances, otherwise the owners of many properties are simply letting those cheap RS units sit empty. For some time before 2019 landlords with RS units didn't want lifers (people who move into RS units and don't move out unless feet first in a box), and that feeling has hardened now with stricter laws/rules.

If someone is a friend or relation of LL, and or knows someone that knows them.... then things may be different. But you're not going to see those cheap RS apartments on CL or via a broker. That old NYC game of asking a super or building employee about vacancies is out as well. Buildings have given employees marching orders that they are to direct all inquires to office.

Thing to remember about market rate apartments in NYC is they are just that; come time for renewal LL can increase rent by whatever amount they want, and or simply refuse to renew all together. State put a few more restrictions on how notices for one or both must be given, but otherwise nothing else.

So yes, you can score a "cheap" market rate apartment now, but in one or two years when lease ends LL may or may not offer further concessions. This includes not jacking up rent to what they feel able to get otherwise. Sometimes a deal can be reached, otherwise you've got to be prepared to pack up and move if not willing to pay the increase.

Actually time is great to buy either condo or co-op in many parts of Manhattan and a few other areas.

Just to point out situation for renters is far more nuanced than media (especially those with a liberal bias) are letting on.

A good majority of tenants are paying rent. Often where you have issues there is also a backstory that isn't pandemic related per se; but one or more things that were brought to a head due to current sitatuion.

Case in point the huge number of illegal aliens who work and live in NYC. Everyone knows who they are, where they work, and that they pretty much are treated equally to other city residents who are citizens or are here legally. Until things hit the fan, then things change.

These persons with "documentation issues", do not qualify for federal or some state benefits. Many if not sizable majority work off the books thus have a difficult time qualifying for what limited financial assistance (private and state/city) .

If the rental market declines dramatically in NYC it means that there is a likely depression coming and the rents won't be going back up in the next year or two. This will be a longer term problem than anyone wants to admit to right now.

First of all understand this; between 60% to 70% of all available rental housing in NYC falls under some sort of federal and or state rent regulation (rent control, rent stabilization, public housing, Section 8, subsidized housing, income based housing, etc..) Those rents are not subject to market forces but are set by a vast and bewildering array of laws and regulations.

That leaves a small remainder of rental housing as free market; these are units subject to what is going on with covid-19 pandemic in city, and what will happen afterwards.

Main reason we're hearing so much about this slice of market rate housing is that it includes units in 1-3 three family homes (mostly in outer boroughs) that make up a bulk of rental housing for low income, poor, illegal immigrants, etc... Because market rate units are not regulated, if people cannot or will not pay rent, they will be compelled to move either of their own free well or by force.

"Own free well". make that "free will".

For those who live in NYC, is Deblasio's hell hole really this bad? Jeesass!

[quote]Between 60% to 70% of all available rental housing in NYC falls under some sort of federal and or state rent regulation (rent control, rent stabilization, public housing, Section 8, subsidized housing, income based housing, etc..) Those rents are not subject to market forces but are set by a vast and bewildering array of laws and regulations. That leaves a small remainder of rental housing as free market; these are units subject to what is going on with covid-19 pandemic in city, and what will happen afterwards.

What you wrote about the percentage of NYC apartments under some kind of rent stabilization or control may be true, but that doesn't mean those apartments are not "subject to what is going on with the pandemic" just because they're not free-market. If a huge percentage of people can't afford to keep paying rent on even their rent subsidized apartments, that whole system will be hugely affected as well.

Do t click on r271. It’s a dangerous right wing propaganda dump site.

They will get you cookies and could harm you.

“What do you mean?” a friend of mine said to me when I told him Midtown should be called Ghost Town. “I’m in my office right now!”

“What are you doing there?”

“Packing up,” he said and laughed, “I’m shutting it down.” He works in the entertainment business.

Another friend of mine works at a major investment bank as a managing director. Before the pandemic, he was at the office every day, sometimes working from 6 a.m.–10 p.m.

Now he lives in Phoenix, Arizona. “As of June,” he told me, “I had never even been to Phoenix.” And then he moved there. He does all his meetings on Zoom.

I was talking to a book editor who has been out of the city since early March. “We’ve been all working fine. I’m not sure why we would need to go back to the office.”

One friend of mine, Derek Halpern, was convinced he’d stay. He put up a Facebook post the other day saying he might be changing his mind. Derek wrote:

“In the last week:

I watched a homeless person lose his mind and start attacking random pedestrians. Including spitting on, throwing stuff at, and swatting.

I’ve seen several single parents with a child asking for money for food. And then, when someone gave them food, tossed the food right back at them.

I watched a man yell racist slurs at every single race of people while charging, then stopping before going too far.

R272

Landlords of rent regulated units would on average likely be thrilled if system was "affected" if that would lead to its demise.

Landlords of below market rent regulated units also likely would shed few tears if they became vacant; at least in prime Manhattan and some areas of Brooklyn or Queens.

[R271] That video was most likely taken during lockdown. Most of those stores have reopened. I was in Saks Fifth Avenue last week and the shelves were fully stocked and it was open for business with customers.

R273 Zero Hedge is not right-wing. They are Libertarian or Democrat. I know one of the "Tyler Durden" posters. These guys work in finance or have been affected intimately by the crimes of Wall St and tell the inside truth.

R269 I live in NYC. There is no more Section 8 available at all.

R273 You are full of shit. Zero Hedge has a select few who have access to post under the nic Tyler Durden. I know one of them.

They are finance insiders and/or have been personally impacted by the crimes of Wall St. They are not right-wing nuts. They are Libertarians and Democrats.

It makes me so angry that Zero Hedge is being slimed.

R271 Yes, it's bad right now in NYC. I hate de Blasio ! I can't believe that we have the Guardian Angels patrolling my UWS neighborhood since the cops are nowhere to be found.

Due to Covid-19, 300 homeless men (including drug addicts + sex offenders) have been moved into 3 hotels in my neighborhood. Since they can't drug and drink in their hotel rooms, they congregate outside in groups where they drink, shoot up, harass people walking by, masturbate, and pass out.

Swell. And our shops are boarded up.

R278

Section 8 does still technically exist in NYC in two flavors. One program is administered by NYCHA and is closed to new applicants since 2009. The other program is run by New York State Homes and Community Renewal, and it is totally closed . Those who applied for NYCHA scheme before list was shut in 2009 are still eligible to be called (someday) for a Section 8 voucher.

However on balance will agree with your statement; unless someone already has a Section 8 voucher, and or fits some sort of emergency that allows them to get one, yes the scheme is closed for all intents and purposes.

R281 Someday? Yeah, right. There virtually is NO section 8 in NYC.

Before Wall St's Heist in 2008, the apts were laughableas well as a rip-off. The landlords would make an "improvement" by installing the most hideous indoor/outdoor carpet and vomitous kitchen tile to get around the regulations to jack up the rent from the previous renter who had left.

R282

Again there are a very small number of Section 8 vouchers for NYC; but they are nearly universally held for distribution to certain homeless, those in danger of becoming so, and or special situations such as domestic violence.

In 2018 DT (of all people) signed into law a bill increasing federal aid for housing including Section 8 vouchers. But it was a drop in bucket in terms of what is needed.

Thing is other areas of NYS have open waiting lists and once you are granted a Section 8 voucher it is portable. You can move anywhere in USA with that voucher long as you find a LL willing to accept.

R284 There are NO Section vouchers in NYC. My social worker would know.

Prices dropping in San Francisco too.

Thus far this predicted tsunami of evictions has largely not materialized.

Nationally by middle of August 2020 nearly 87% of tenants paid rent in full or part. Since about May there has been a steady upwards trend in rent payments overall. So obviously something is missing from the narrative that thousands are facing imminent homelessness.

Will give you that various forms of state and or federal aid (especially that $600 UI benefit) may have been responsible for much of what has happened.

Recent NYT article on rent and eviction situation.