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Someone needs to remind Italians they aren’t white

Real Italians like that man are not white.

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by Anonymousreply 24607/14/2020

Huh?

by Anonymousreply 106/26/2020

Yes they are. Some Sicilians may have some Moor blood from a long time ago, but they are white.

by Anonymousreply 206/26/2020

They aren’t white

by Anonymousreply 306/26/2020

Check out the bulge on the masked guy in the black shirt. He's totally having a semi!

by Anonymousreply 406/26/2020

Garibaldi didn't unite Italy, he divided Africa.

by Anonymousreply 506/26/2020

Papists and Fenians really need to stop hanging around WASP only bathouses.

by Anonymousreply 606/26/2020

Fucking mongrels trying to act superior.

by Anonymousreply 706/26/2020

Italians are white.

by Anonymousreply 806/26/2020

Some are, R8.

Some aren't.

by Anonymousreply 906/26/2020

Someone also needs to remind them black people were here long before them and when they got here they were placed in concentration camps, lynched etc. also. How they’ve forgotten.

It’s scary how many of them proclaim “Italian” (they aren’t Italians) but don’t know any of the real Italian American history.

by Anonymousreply 1006/26/2020

R10, of they know, but trying to forget by pretending they are better than others.

by Anonymousreply 1106/26/2020

[R10], oh they know, but trying to forget by pretending they are better than others.

by Anonymousreply 1206/26/2020

A lot think they're better than whites. Superiority complex.

by Anonymousreply 1306/26/2020

There is nothing more entertaining than the whole Who's really White debate. It brings it all together, the complete arbitrariness of the whole silly thing.

by Anonymousreply 1406/26/2020

R13 : So they think they're upgraded whites?

by Anonymousreply 1506/26/2020

What are they bitching about?

by Anonymousreply 1606/26/2020

How quickly they forget.

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by Anonymousreply 1706/26/2020

R17 yup. They were brown. They used to look like what Mexicans look like. They didn’t start looking white until they started mixing with legitimate whites.

by Anonymousreply 1806/26/2020

There's this thing called a "tan".

by Anonymousreply 1906/26/2020

Italians are genetically related to all other Europeans. There’s very little admixture,-especially northern Italians- with North Africans.

by Anonymousreply 2006/26/2020

Well, since you brought it up - why do some Italians have nappy hair?

John Turturro, for example

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by Anonymousreply 2106/26/2020

Are Greeks white?

by Anonymousreply 2206/26/2020

White Italians are white.

by Anonymousreply 2306/26/2020

Southern Italians and Sicilians were euphemistically said to have an "olive-complexion"

by Anonymousreply 2406/26/2020

What about Arabs? They're hawt!

by Anonymousreply 2506/26/2020

Italians were Middle Eastern and did have black DNA

by Anonymousreply 2606/26/2020

stupid thread. FF.

by Anonymousreply 2706/26/2020

Watching that video, you Americans are fucking crazy, both sides, the BLM and those idiots.

by Anonymousreply 2806/26/2020

If I have to read a genealogy print out to kill you without conscience, you’re white.

by Anonymousreply 2906/26/2020

[quote] Southern Italians and Sicilians were euphemistically said to have an "olive-complexion"

We call that white.

by Anonymousreply 3006/26/2020

Americans have weird obsessions.

by Anonymousreply 3106/26/2020

Italians are NOT white. Maybe some very Northern Italians, but we true WASPs have to review that on a case by case basis. We are not just letting anyone in. The rule, before applying any creditable exceptions is that Italians are NOT white and, being Papists, are NOT Christian.

That's just how it is, but they get so uppity about it.

by Anonymousreply 3206/26/2020

The average IQ in that group couldn't be much more than 80.

by Anonymousreply 3306/26/2020

Are we talking Italians or Eye-talians?

by Anonymousreply 3406/26/2020

But R32, Christianity existed before Protestantism. They are the one who decided to secede from the Roman church, which was the center of Christiandom. Now, Christianity is formed of the Catholic church, the Protstant church and the Orthodox church.

That the WASPs love to shout :"You are not one of us !", ok, but let's not create alternative realities.

by Anonymousreply 3506/26/2020

Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

Because of the close relationship and intermingling between Greeks ad Italians since ancient times, there is an expression in both countries called, in Italian: ”Una Faccia, Una Razza,” and in Greek: "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα" meaning One Face, One Race...meaning they are very similar in looks and genetics and have been throughout the ages.

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by Anonymousreply 3606/26/2020

R34, as English is not my first language, I never got the nature of that ethnic slur ( is it a slur ? It is meant to be unpleasant, right ?)

Eye-talian ? Hoo !I mispronounce their nationality ! That will teach them !

Or is there something that went over my head ?

by Anonymousreply 3706/26/2020

Another perspective of in Italian: ”Una Faccia, Una Razza,” and in Greek: "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα"

One Face, One Race (it's a real thing):

The Hellenic Institute for Byzantine and Post-Byzantine Studies opened in Venice in 1951, providing for the study of Byzantine and Post-Byzantine history in Italy.

The Istituto Italiano di Cultura di Atene in Athens is responsible for promoting Italian culture in Greece.

In July 2014, an official artistic exhibition with the title "Italy – Greece: one face, one race" was inaugurated in Rome on the occasion of the passing of the EU Council Presidency from Greece to Italy. The title of the exhibition refers to a Greek saying, "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα" (mia fatsa mia ratsa, cf. Italian una faccia, una razza), often used in Greece to express the perception of close cultural affinities between Greeks and Italians.

Greeks have lived in southern Italy (Magna Grecia) for millennia, and today are called Griko. There are also Italians in Corfu.

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by Anonymousreply 3806/26/2020

They are considered white today. But they weren't all considered white when they first started coming to the US. The southern Italians had much darker skin than the northern Italians. The darker Italians were treated like black folks as far as housing, schooling, attending public places, etc. They were often called "white N*****s" or "N***** wop".

by Anonymousreply 3906/26/2020

R38, this is really interesting, but I doubt OP is interested in similarities between Greeks and Romans (and modern Italians!) or by the caddie of Western civilisation.

OP seems to be part of one of the numerous American clans, at war with all the other factions. The one and out of which makes no sense for us.

by Anonymousreply 4006/26/2020

** craddle of civilisation, obviously.

by Anonymousreply 4106/26/2020

I'm very white and I don't understand why the part white people are so angry. It's weird.

by Anonymousreply 4206/26/2020

Italians were called the “niggers” of Europe

by Anonymousreply 4306/26/2020

All of these guys use “fag” but gladly jerk off to tranny porn.

by Anonymousreply 4406/26/2020

R39, then shouldn't the Wasps be guilttripped about how unwelcoming they were ? Somehow, these recurrent thread make it sound like Italian Americans should be ashamed for having been shabily welcomed.

by Anonymousreply 4506/26/2020

I don't think anyone posting here has actually ever been to Italy.

by Anonymousreply 4606/26/2020

Northern Italy - White

Everyone other part - Well, everyone else knows the deal except them. But let them have their silk hankies over lamps fantasies.

by Anonymousreply 4706/26/2020

True R46 or know Italian history. There are dark Italians and light Italians. There are white Italians and mixed Italians. People fuck-up when they try to put all Italians in the same box given the history in different parts of the country.

by Anonymousreply 4806/26/2020

The laughable article at R17 is written by Brent Staples an African American who gets it all wrong.

by Anonymousreply 4906/26/2020

This thread reads like something from 4chan.

by Anonymousreply 5006/26/2020

MAYBE the guys in this video DON’T think they’re white, and also just hate BLM and the communists surrounding them? Like Asians.

by Anonymousreply 5106/26/2020

What is happening in OP video ? What is the confrontation about ?

Yes, I'm the cluelss non American who posted a couple of question in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 5206/26/2020

How about DL fave NFL quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo?

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by Anonymousreply 5306/26/2020

How about adjacent couples?

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by Anonymousreply 5406/26/2020

Melissa Gorga before and after

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by Anonymousreply 5506/26/2020

Johnny Cash's first wife, Vivien Cash - full-blood Sciscilian

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by Anonymousreply 5606/26/2020

Muriel should add this thread to the FAQs.

by Anonymousreply 5706/26/2020

Nobody has seen the Walken/Hopper scene in True Romance (written by Tarantino....)?

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by Anonymousreply 5806/26/2020

M U R I E L !!!!!!!! The cunt-faced "Italians-ain't-white" troll is backkkkkk from her virtual grave!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please re-bury her!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 5906/26/2020

Skip to the 06:30 mark in R58 vid - R58!!

by Anonymousreply 6006/26/2020

R59 is Italian?

by Anonymousreply 6106/26/2020

[quote]They were brown. They used to look like what Mexicans look like. They didn’t start looking white until they started mixing with legitimate whites.

The complete ignorance on DL is astounding sometimes.

by Anonymousreply 6206/26/2020

[quote]Italians were called the “niggers” of Europe

That was actually the Irish.

by Anonymousreply 6306/26/2020

When the wind blows the craddle will fall. Down will come R41, craddle and all.

by Anonymousreply 6406/26/2020

I forgot Gandolfini was in that movie too. A Tony Scott movie written by Tarantino wins the tasteless Olympics.

by Anonymousreply 6506/26/2020

I think a good metric for "whiteness" is that is somebody can't immediately identify you as white or has to ask, you are not white. Someone told me Persians consider themselves white and this is not the case. It's pretty basic.

by Anonymousreply 6606/26/2020

Nope. Middle Easterners are classified as CAUCASIAN!

Hindus/Indians are classified as ASIAN!

What about the poor Aborigines? No one EVER considers the classification of the Aborigines!

by Anonymousreply 6706/26/2020

[quote] Nope. Middle Easterners are classified as CAUCASIAN!

Countdown to the “They’re Caucasian but not white” post.

by Anonymousreply 6806/26/2020

They're Caucasian but not white. I don't think anyone would mistake Pratima and Mohammed as being late for the Oktoberfest across town.

by Anonymousreply 6906/26/2020

As R63 said it was about the Irish... But who'd say that ? I'm pretty sure the Swedes, the French, the Spaniards, people from Luxambourg, the Germans and the Russians didn't worry about Irish peop,e and bothered to callthemthat.

It seems like it could come from ... The English ? Hardly all of Europe ! Actually, they don't even want to be part of Europe !

by Anonymousreply 7006/26/2020

They’re Caucasian because Caucasian doesn’t actually mean WHITE

by Anonymousreply 7106/26/2020

Is Chris Meloni white?

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by Anonymousreply 7206/26/2020

r69 Yes, Persians look like Europeans. Have you ever seen one? Doesn't sound like it.

There is local difference everywhere. There are more blue eyed Swedes than blue eyed Germans, there are more blue eyed Germans than blue eyed Italians, they are more blue eyed Italians that blue eyed Persians. Yet brown eyed white people are still white.

WASPs can be or have been racist to Italians all they want, you can be racist to anyone if you hold the power, but they can not change the race of the people of an age old nation on another continent by that, You ARE aware that Europe and Italy actually still exist, Americans?

by Anonymousreply 7306/26/2020

People from India are NOT MONGOLOID they are CAUCASOID.

by Anonymousreply 7406/26/2020

R49, Care to elaborate?

by Anonymousreply 7506/26/2020

[quote] They're Caucasian but not white.

[quote] They’re Caucasian because Caucasian doesn’t actually mean WHITE

Told you so.

by Anonymousreply 7606/26/2020

The world is not made of Two races. PS the old fuck in his 80s always using terms like “Caucasoid” and “Mongoloid”, those terms are outdated and that was proven bullshit years ago.

by Anonymousreply 7706/26/2020

Here goes an articles most Americans need to read. Caucasian does not actually mean white.

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by Anonymousreply 7806/26/2020

And no, those brown Middle Eastern people are not “white”.

by Anonymousreply 7906/26/2020

[quote] People from India are NOT MONGOLOID they are CAUCASOID.

R74 = Dr. Eugene Icks, a protege or Dr. Mengele

by Anonymousreply 8006/26/2020

This white-adjacent thing is such horseshit. There are TONS of Northern Europeans/Britons/Irish who are swarthy. Tom Cullen is a good example - he's 100% Welsh and he could pass for a Spaniard.

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by Anonymousreply 8106/26/2020

[quote] Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

On DL Greeks are not white either.

by Anonymousreply 8206/26/2020

R81 because they are mixed

by Anonymousreply 8306/26/2020

Those people in the video aren't Italians. They are all Americans. Every single one of them.

Also - there are plenty of fair skinned, light eyed, blond Italians in Italy. Depends on the geographical location.

by Anonymousreply 8406/26/2020

[quote]Someone also needs to remind them black people were here long before them and when they got here they were placed in concentration camps, lynched etc. also. How they’ve forgotten.

Italians learned how to integrate into American society within a generation or two. Why haven't blacks who have been here for 400 years?

by Anonymousreply 8506/26/2020

Italians may be considered white now but racist Italian-Americans need to accept that WASPS used to discriminate against them too, and just maybe they can develop some empathy.

by Anonymousreply 8606/26/2020

Discriminate? They used to kill them!!!

by Anonymousreply 8706/26/2020

Half Italian (ethnically) and from Philly, and these guys are just embarrassing. They never left the city except to go "down the shore". They're still either living in the same house they grew up in or in the same neighborhood. They never amounted to much. They have chips on their shoulders. Seeing the city change before their very eyes so rapidly, especially demographically-speaking, is scary to them. The city's population is made up of African-Americans and hipster youth who have built the city up and now have strong political power. Houses go for over half a mil. These goombas are unable to progress with the world around them. They're clinging to whatever 'Identity" they have left.

by Anonymousreply 8806/26/2020

Anyway, I have to laugh that their precious Columbus statue is officially coming down.

by Anonymousreply 8906/26/2020

R88 while I agree with most you said, I hate when people knock people for staying in the town they were born in/grew up in. Nothing wrong with growing where you were planted.

I have more respect for someone like that than people who flock to cities they don’t even fit in.

by Anonymousreply 9006/26/2020

R85 - black people were slaves until 1865 when slavery was officially abolished. That was 155 years ago.

Then, various laws have actively worked to keep black people down for most of the last 155 years after that - segregation, suffrage, access to education, finance etc.

So that's hardly comparable to Italian immigrants is it?

No.

by Anonymousreply 9106/26/2020

[quote]Then, various laws have actively worked to keep black people down for most of the last 155 years after that - segregation, suffrage, access to education, finance etc.

Blacks' insistence on committing endless violent crimes for the last 155 years has resulted in their being kept down. Yes, "homicide" is one of various laws that has kept black people down by their refusal to obey it.

by Anonymousreply 9206/26/2020

NO R92 and you know it you racist fuck!

by Anonymousreply 9306/26/2020

R92 is the perfect example of people who don’t know their own history or they would have more empathy.

by Anonymousreply 9406/26/2020

R91 In fact. There is no comparison. Zero.

In my family a first generation Italian cousin went to Yale, another became a judge. My first generation grandfather became solidly upper middle class by the 1950s and sent his kids to college.

Italians founded the Bank of America 1904. Doctors, architects, scientists, artists, businessmen....Enrico Fermi, Valentino, Caruso, the architect Candela, Antonio Meucci, Domingo Ghirardelli, Giuseppe Bellanca, Fiorello La Guardia was the mayor of NYC.....the list is long

Immigrants from Italy were coming from a country that gave us the Roman Empire, the Renaissance ...Italy gave the world great inventions, advances in science, medicine, art, exploration....the fucking COUNTRY is named after an Italian.

Italians have absolutely NOTHING in common with the plight of Blacks.

by Anonymousreply 9506/26/2020

[quote]I hate when people knock people for staying in the town they were born in/grew up in. Nothing wrong with growing where you were planted.

Except they have no interest the world outside of their own. That's the problem. They travel in myopic circles.

by Anonymousreply 9606/26/2020

R93, please view this thread.

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by Anonymousreply 9706/26/2020

[quote]Except they have no interest the world outside of their own.

Old school Italian neighborhoods are fine with me.

by Anonymousreply 9806/26/2020

R97 and? Many people who live there say the cops started the shootouts but the media won’t cover it.

Who knows what is happening.

And using that is stupid because you don’t use white people who mass kill.

by Anonymousreply 9906/26/2020

R95- Fiorello LaGuardia was half Italian and half Jewish how the hell did he end up EPISCOPALIAN?

by Anonymousreply 10006/26/2020

Hey, with Greeks it is also fragmented and tribal. The fact is, if you're from the Macedonian region you're fair, and the scattered islands have a lot of Turkish and Middle eastern ancestors. As for Italy, the Arbs colonized Naples and remained there for more than 300 years. Hannibal Barca of Carthage in North Africa invade Italy and the Carthagenians stayed in the Italian Peninsula for a very long time. Ancient warfare and conquest, and the commerce on the Mediterranean meant a lot of mixing. Northern Italians mixed with Germanic Tribes, with Gauls, etc. and Southern italians mixed with Semitic people throughout the Mediterranean. Greeks too. And it happened over hundreds of years.

by Anonymousreply 10106/26/2020

[quote]Many people who live there say the cops started the shootouts

Oh please.

by Anonymousreply 10206/26/2020

[quote] the Arbs

I'd like to stay in one next time I'm in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 10306/26/2020

Apparently Leonardo DiCaprio, Madonna, Nicolas Cage, Bradley Cooper and Chris Evans are mixed race people according to DL. Let's not forget Meryl Streep in The Bridges of Madison County, one of the most grotesque examples of whitewashing in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 10406/26/2020

So Frank Sinatra was actually black?

by Anonymousreply 10506/26/2020

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS NOT WHITE DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE BLACK.

That is part of the issue. We’ve gotten to a place where we think the world is made of white or black. That’s a lie b

by Anonymousreply 10606/26/2020

So Frank Sinatra was Arab?

by Anonymousreply 10706/26/2020

If italians aren't white because of distant north african ancestry, then scandinavians are also not white because of distant asian ancestry.

by Anonymousreply 10806/26/2020

Madonna is my favorite black artist.

by Anonymousreply 10906/26/2020

Why is this topic so recurrent on DL? It comes up every couple of months. I don't see it discussed elsewhere.

by Anonymousreply 11006/26/2020

Ariana has the classic olive complexion seen by true Italians, not fake Italians.

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by Anonymousreply 11106/26/2020

Oh god now we have "fake" Italians and "true" Italians. DLers are batshit crazy.

WTF is it with Italians and this 'white adjacent' shit? The French can be dark or fair and nobody thinks they're anything but white.

by Anonymousreply 11206/26/2020

[quote] The French can be dark or fair and nobody thinks they're anything but white.

You must be new here.

by Anonymousreply 11306/26/2020

Ariana isn’t a real Italian. That tan is fake too.

by Anonymousreply 11406/26/2020

The French are notoriously non white.

by Anonymousreply 11506/26/2020

As far as Black entertainers go, Perry Como has always been my favorite.

by Anonymousreply 11606/26/2020

Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin opened a lot of doors for people of color in the entertainment industry. They were two of the first non-white artists to find mainstream acceptance.

by Anonymousreply 11706/26/2020

It was Hitler who called Italians "the mongrel race of Europe."

by Anonymousreply 11806/26/2020

R118 and millions followed.

by Anonymousreply 11906/26/2020

Raffaello, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Titian, Tintoretto, Giovanni Bellini, Botticelli, Donatello, Piero della Francesca, Fra Angelico, Andrea Mantegna, Filippo Lippi, Caravaggio, Giotto, Puccini, Rossini, Monteverdi, Vivaldi...just to name a few....all mongrels!

by Anonymousreply 12006/26/2020

Hitler worshipped italians due to the Roman Empire.

by Anonymousreply 12106/26/2020

I'm half Italian. I had to fill out a form that asked for race. I was honestly confused. No European countries were called out, so I thought about checking "other" and writing in Italian, but in the end just checked white.

by Anonymousreply 12206/26/2020

They are white

by Anonymousreply 12306/26/2020

I'm Italian. From Catanzaro in the South. Well, I was born here and my parents were born here but my grand parents, great grand parents on both sides, and my great, great grand parents on both sides were all Italians. I have a true olive complexion and thick naturally curly hair. I had cousins who had nappy hair. Nappy RED hair. Vikings passed through the Italian peninsula in the area where our people came from. One of the cousins did research and said the area in ancient times was called "magna Greca. " There are ancient amphitheatres in the countryside that date back to the Greeks.

by Anonymousreply 12406/26/2020

[quote] but in the end just checked white.

You chose...unwisely.

by Anonymousreply 12506/26/2020

What should he have checked? African-American or Asian?

by Anonymousreply 12606/26/2020

I am 1/2 Italian on my dad’s side and agree with R88. I love my dad, but he and his South Philly friends are racist and homophobic (although he loves his boy - anyway). I had a really cool black roommate in college and be became best friends. I learned a lot from being his friend, traveling with him and meeting other black people. It really opened my mind from my racist upbringing. Then I moved to NYC and expanded my world even more. However, when I visit South Philly/my dad, I am reminded of the same small minded attitudes that haven’t changed a bit in 50 years. It is really sad and I can’t wait to leave again.

by Anonymousreply 12706/26/2020

This doesn't look like any white person I know...

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by Anonymousreply 12806/26/2020

Does to me, r128.

by Anonymousreply 12906/26/2020

Does Alicia Vikander look white to you? She is much darker than the average italian.

by Anonymousreply 13006/26/2020

For the idiot at R128

Virna Lisi

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by Anonymousreply 13106/26/2020

Mariangela Melato

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by Anonymousreply 13206/26/2020

Giulietta Masina

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by Anonymousreply 13306/26/2020

Monica Vitti

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by Anonymousreply 13406/26/2020

Italians and the Irish became so racist to try and take away from their own otherness.

by Anonymousreply 13506/26/2020

R135 Racists? The Italians didn't institute slavery. Or Jim Crow. Or red lining. Learn a little history.

by Anonymousreply 13606/26/2020

Were Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon considered white? I would say so.

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by Anonymousreply 13706/26/2020

ariana dolezal's tan is fake. she's pale as a ghost naturally.

by Anonymousreply 13806/26/2020

If OP Edwina thinks she is 54 percent white then what are italians??

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by Anonymousreply 13906/26/2020

[quote]Were Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon considered white?

I have heard that filming was difficult for them because it was hard to find beaches that accepted people of color.

by Anonymousreply 14006/26/2020

[quote]Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

[quote]On DL Greeks are not white either.

Oh, okay. So I guess I'm not white. I'll let my father and grandmother know. They will be most interested . She'll pray for you at the Greek church this weekend. Then she'll put a hex on you, you white bastard.

by Anonymousreply 14106/26/2020

Annette Funicello kind of looked like Zira from Planet Of The Apes (1968) they both had the same SIMIAN hairdo.

by Anonymousreply 14206/26/2020

R136: Learn the definition of "racist"

by Anonymousreply 14306/26/2020

Italy was the most racist country I’ve ever been to. I was shocked. They don’t even hide it.

by Anonymousreply 14406/26/2020

WTF! People here are still putting all Italians (and Greeks) in the same box! Most are white. Some are mixed! Stop with the willful stupidity.

by Anonymousreply 14506/26/2020

R144: Italians are extremists. Either they LOVE you or they HATE you and very arrogant either way.

by Anonymousreply 14606/26/2020

im cuban of portuguese and spanish ancestry. acccording to acestry and 23andme i was supposed to be blond and blue eyed. however my hair is cery black and my eyes are brown. my father looks swedish and my mother is brunette. southern europeans can have a variety of skin tones fron pale to olive but their facial and bone structures are clearly europeans, only the unfuckable gingers in the USA think they are not white. yes , southern europeans are waaaayyyy hotter than those nasty looking english and germans.

by Anonymousreply 14706/26/2020

"Mama, am I black?"

"Well, Liza, I never thought about it before, but I guess you are."

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by Anonymousreply 14806/26/2020

it is all envy what americans have always felt for italians cuz they know italians have an amazing cultural heritage. they would give an eye if they could to just be able to get out of shithole utah and spend one day of their miserable lives in wonderful italy.

by Anonymousreply 14906/26/2020

As a Swiss diplomat once said to me, "Everything south of Naples is Africa."

by Anonymousreply 15006/26/2020

Imagine willingly committing brain cells to determining the merits of any side of this argument. Really scraping the barrel. It’s so low energy.

by Anonymousreply 15106/26/2020

FWIW the Irish were also once considered non-white. Both the Irish and Italians are considered white by all now except freaks like OP. Jews and Latinos have had a similar journey. There are Black Jews and Latinos though. In Italy, there is a long term, significant north-south divide, which has racial overtones. Northerners will say “Rome is where Africa begins.” This was a common expression before the recent “migrant emergency.” The Northern League, which is now trying to go mainstream, has very racist roots, and advocated breaking away under the name “Padania.”

by Anonymousreply 15206/26/2020

I'm sorry but Italian Americans have almost zero in common with real Italians. They are like two different species.

by Anonymousreply 15306/26/2020

Unless you look like christopher moltisanti, I’m not sleeping with you. Guidos are racist, horrible creatures. That’s why NJ is such a shithole

by Anonymousreply 15406/26/2020

White people come in shades, just like Black folks. This is a race baiter thread, DL catnip.

by Anonymousreply 15506/26/2020

R153: "Real" Italians? Okay...bloodline don't count? In what ways - says you?

by Anonymousreply 15606/26/2020

R155 yep the OP fat race baiting troll Edwina is stiring the pot again.

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by Anonymousreply 15706/26/2020

Eew.

by Anonymousreply 15806/26/2020

R150 You should have asked that Swiss Diplomat what art , culture, great music, cuisine, fashion, etc....the Swiss have ever produced,

by Anonymousreply 15906/26/2020

The Italians are very defensive of their consideration of being white or not. It is how big your dick is that really counts.

by Anonymousreply 16006/26/2020

It's 2020 and they still do not have the decorium to button up their shirts!

by Anonymousreply 16106/26/2020

Someone needs to inform the OP every race of people is comprised of various shades and hues.

by Anonymousreply 16206/27/2020

Only the Italians hung over 10” might not be completely white.

by Anonymousreply 16306/27/2020

Oh ffs, this old chestnut again?

Does Marcello Mastroianni not look white? Ballerina Carla Fracci (now one of the most beautiful 80 year old women I've ever seen)? You know how many blond Italians there are? Have you looked at statuary from Roman and medieval times? At Michelangeleo's David? Boticelli's Venus? Bellini's St. Francis in the Desert?

Southern Italy probably has a large dollop of North African DNA. DNA gets spread around, minimised with intermarriage, transmuted, changed, and either amplified or diminished in individuals as time goes on.

OP is a jackass stirring the pot. Probably the same git who insisted Antonio Banderas and all Spaniards aren't white, either, despite one look at the King and Queen of Spain and the plethora of tall blond Spaniards in Northwestern Spain.

Why is this bullshit always with us?!

by Anonymousreply 16406/27/2020

R155 - "This is a race baiter thread. . . ."

Like, totally.

by Anonymousreply 16506/27/2020

R164 Hello

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by Anonymousreply 16606/27/2020

R150, there's an English saying, obviously racist, "Africa begins at Calais". The French say "Africa begins at the Pyrenees. " It's an old European trope.

by Anonymousreply 16706/27/2020

It's not a Black White issue. There are groups of people who are semitic. Arabic. WTF ever you call them. And within countries there are regions and tribes that have different language, customs, culture, etc. Italians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart in terms of physicality, culture temperament, traditions, etc.

I think sometimes what we don't know about the world is embarrassing, as Americans. You can go to Portugal, Spain, Greece, italy, and you will find significant regional differences even in the dialect they speak, the architecture, the cuisine, the customs. In Greece you can call them "racist" if you like, but the prejudice and the insularities go back to the times pre-dating Alexander the Great.

On the mainland in the Greek peninsula, the Macedonian region were the lighter complexioned ones. Even today, I remember my grandmother had an old neighbor who was very quick to tell us he was "Macedonian." There was a term not much in use today, called The Orient. It included Turkey, parts of Russia, parts of China. Further to the West, in the Mediterranean, lots of commerce, lots of mixing.

We keep hearing about these distinctions all the time: Persians aren't Arabs. They will be the first to tell you. Middle Eastern? Yes. Arabs, no. Macedonians aren't Greeks. Sicilians aren't "real" Italians. People from Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, aren't "Africans" they're Arabs.

It's a pain in the ass trying to keep up with the fact that in this reactionary age, with a resurgence of a new version of nationalism, the fragmentation of human society is exacerbated by refugee crises, and people insisting on claiming identity from the narrowest possible definition.

by Anonymousreply 16806/27/2020

[quote] Italians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart in terms of physicality, culture temperament, traditions, etc.

They are miles apart, period. Europe is a real sliding scale from north to south (and a little more subtely west to east) when it comes to height, coloring, even culture, tradition and religion, just as much within nations as between nations. A naturally grown population must be consusing to Americans, so they cling to imaginary race clusters.

by Anonymousreply 16906/27/2020

For the people who get offended by this thread, I think it's just typical DL brand of off color un PC gallows humor to shed light on the systemic racism in the world. You either have fun with it or roll your eyes or keep moving. But on a side note, it is funny as shit the way Italian get all up in arms when you remind them about he whole Moors thing.

by Anonymousreply 17006/27/2020

We can all agree, regardless of race, Italian men have the nicest cocks, right?

by Anonymousreply 17106/27/2020

Geography plays a huge role in what evolves in a culture in order to survive. and outside influences affect everything from the evolving language, food, and adaptation of customs and traditions. YOu want to talk about evolving languages just look at the English Language itself.

I blame the Catholic Church for the ascendance and the promotion of racism and the whole notion of who is superior to whom. Religion has always been used as a weapon to oppress and subject one people to another.

by Anonymousreply 17206/27/2020

I think we need to define terms. OP, what is "white?" Because obviously it is a lot more than complexion, right? What is the standard against which you measure someone's conformity?

by Anonymousreply 17306/27/2020

I know this is in part a comedy-thread, but I think I now realise why the US has the reputation of being an unusually racist country. You never hear people from Northern Europe call into question whether Italians are white, not even when they’re hardcore neo-nazis.

by Anonymousreply 17406/27/2020

One thing is not up for debate: Santa Claus is a white man. He just is.

by Anonymousreply 17506/27/2020

[quote] he whole Moors thing.

Moops!

by Anonymousreply 17606/27/2020

For example DL fave Anthony Recker, who is Italian despite his last name, is not white.

by Anonymousreply 17706/27/2020

R174 I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand. For the most part everyone got along. But the key was you were either black or you were white. It wasn't until I left the south that I realized there were all of these other categories of white people. It was quite the eye opener. I didn't meet a Jewish person until college and even then I didn't understand why everyone was so down on them.

I was fascinated the first time I went to the big city and there were these areas like Little Italy and Chinatown and this is where all the Russians live. I was so naïve. But it really a lesson in how America works. The key thing being they want to be better than and look down on American black people. Even some of the Africans that come here have issues with American black people. I just don't understand it.

by Anonymousreply 17806/27/2020

[quote[ I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand.

I work a lot in the South (specifically Texas) for my job, having been raised the UK and Northeastern United States. Racism is definitely crazy and out of hand. Perhaps it isn't compared to say 60 years ago, but it is still virulent. When I'm not around black people, the racism comes out, and when you react against it people become very agitated.

by Anonymousreply 17906/27/2020

[quote] I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand.

I work a lot in the South (specifically Texas) for my job, having been raised the UK and Northeastern United States. Racism is definitely crazy and out of hand. Perhaps it isn't compared to say 60 years ago, but it is still virulent. When I'm not around black people, the racism comes out, and when you react against it people become very agitated.

by Anonymousreply 18006/27/2020

Are Brad Pitt and Derek Hough white?

by Anonymousreply 18106/27/2020

The Italians in the Southwest were just called Mexican-Lite. In the Northeast and the South they were actually killed by lynching and other nefarious ways.

In America Italians were "upgraded" to white when Hispanics started moving out of the Sunbelt into the Northern parts of the country.

by Anonymousreply 18206/27/2020

[quote] The Italians in the Southwest were just called Mexican-Lite.

In California I believe many Italians are from Northern Italy.

by Anonymousreply 18306/27/2020

[quote]In California I believe many Italians are from Northern Italy.

That's why they were called Mexican-Lite. There is a reason why the Pachuco movement also spilled into the Italian neighborhoods.

by Anonymousreply 18406/27/2020

What's the "Pachuco movement"?

by Anonymousreply 18506/27/2020

When Mexicans started to dress like they came out of the Zoot riots. You know, like when Mexicans would get beat up by whites and blacks if they got out of their barrios... The navy would do drills in the barrios were they would practice by beating up Mexican men and Mexican women.

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by Anonymousreply 18606/27/2020

Actually, r124, the Vikings, well Normans, did more than pass through Southern Italy. They owned the place for awhile. It's what makes all this whole thing so silly, the constant worry about race mixing when everyone's such a mutt. How many white people in the South really want to look deeply into their own purity?

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by Anonymousreply 18706/27/2020

I know for a fact there's so much race mixing in Louisiana and Georgia it is hardly worth mentioning. It's only in the mountainous rural regions of north and south Georgia, and in the rural regions of LA that you get the extremists and the assholes. Of course Mississippi and Alabama are really bad as far as the racists go.

by Anonymousreply 18806/27/2020

Here come the "swarthy" people who have the inability to use the word DARK.

by Anonymousreply 18906/27/2020

R164, Never looked at Antonio Banderas and thought—yep, that's a white man! Lol.

by Anonymousreply 19006/27/2020

R164 - Welcome to DL, where a thread just like this erupted over (probably the OP of this one) insisting that Banderas wasn't white simply by virtue of being Spanish.

Frankly, I never looked at Banderas and thought he was anything but white - and scrumptious.

by Anonymousreply 19106/27/2020

[quote]In America Italians were "upgraded" to white when Hispanics started moving out of the Sunbelt into the Northern parts of the country.

Total bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 19206/27/2020

[quote]talians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart

They sure are.

The Swedes haven't produced even a teeny tiny fraction of the culture the Italians have.

by Anonymousreply 19306/27/2020

Italians are Caucasian, therefore white.

Like Blacks, whites come in many hues. The skin range is from pale white to dark olive skin.

by Anonymousreply 19406/27/2020

The Irish might have been considered trash but they are probably the absolutely definition of white. Light hair, extremely white skin, blue eyes are their predominate traits.. I guess there are the dark Irish.

by Anonymousreply 19506/27/2020

R195 - They're called "Black Irish" with dark hair and dark eyes (eg. Colin Farrell).

by Anonymousreply 19606/27/2020

Anyone who dismisses the Italians as being of "various hues" misses the point. Southern Italians, (those south of Rome, not Naples) were more mixed with other civilizations because of colonization, because of commerce, etc. So the culture, the cuisine, the climate, the dialects, etc. everything was influenced by others. In the north you have other cultural influences from the landlocked tribes and cultures of northern and Central Europe. There was a time when Austria invaded a ruled northern italy, for example. But again. We use the term "white." very broadly and everyone seems to put their own spin on it. For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent. I celebrate other cultures. They make like richer. But there are a lot of others who fear "outsiders" or anything that is different from their small, insular world.

by Anonymousreply 19706/27/2020

SOME are called Black Irish. Most Irish are white as white can be. It is hilarious how these things had to be "decided," no doubt after a lot of earnest investigation and scholarly bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 19806/27/2020

So who's the bitch that hates this Edwin so much? What's that shit about?

by Anonymousreply 19906/27/2020

[quote]For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent.

Why do you find that abhorrent?

by Anonymousreply 20006/27/2020

Most Italian immigrants came to the US in the twentieth century, long after slavery was outlawed and they had nothing to do with how blacks were treated here. So, Italian-Americans are not going to be paying one cent of Reparations or whatever bullshit handouts are being demanded by blacks and Progressive politicians, especially if they're being told they aren't white.

by Anonymousreply 20106/27/2020

Because DOnald Trump and the people who support him...the millions who support him, appropriated it long ago and defined it in such a way as to be abhorrent to me.

by Anonymousreply 20206/27/2020

[quote]But there are a lot of others who fear "outsiders" or anything that is different from their small, insular world.

Italy is filled with walled cities just for that reason.

by Anonymousreply 20306/27/2020

[quote]Italy is filled with walled cities just for that reason.

Those walled cities date back to the MIddle Ages, and have nothing to do with racism.

by Anonymousreply 20406/27/2020

R204 You're wrong. They were built at their time to keep invaders out. And still today, Italians are suspicious of "the other". And that's not a criticism on my part BTW.

by Anonymousreply 20506/27/2020

[quote]And still today, Italians are suspicious of "the other".

Every group, everywhere on Earth, is suspicious of "the other".

by Anonymousreply 20606/27/2020

Well, if you had invaders who raped all your women and killed your men and took over the country you'd want to build walls to keep them out too.

by Anonymousreply 20706/27/2020

R207 You think native americans should have built walls back in the 1500s?

by Anonymousreply 20806/27/2020

R206 Agreed. I was responding to the idiotic post at R197

by Anonymousreply 20906/27/2020

And r208 is right on cue.

by Anonymousreply 21006/27/2020

EVERYONE built walls in the Middle Ages, and a lot in the Ancient World. Is this honestly supposed to be some big clue into the Italian character? Really?

by Anonymousreply 21106/27/2020

Race is a social construct.

by Anonymousreply 21206/27/2020

R212 Amen!

by Anonymousreply 21306/27/2020

R211 Yes absolutely. It explains a lot about attitudes still to this day.

by Anonymousreply 21406/27/2020

no, it really doesn't r214.

by Anonymousreply 21506/27/2020

R215 Have you ever lived in a walled town?

I have in Italy for 3 decades. Do even speak Italian?

by Anonymousreply 21606/27/2020

jesus christ, bitch, you think living in a town with medieval walls tells you some big thing about yourself and your surrounding culture? Do you know York has walls? Do you know Quebec has walls? Do you honestly think this is some big thing that Italy invented and now everyone is stuck with living in walled cities and wondering when the Vikings are going to show up?

by Anonymousreply 21706/27/2020

[quote]you think living in a town with medieval walls tells you some big thing about yourself and your surrounding culture?

You bet it does.

R217 But you're an idiot. You truly don't get it. You know nothing about history and how attitudes are formed.

by Anonymousreply 21806/27/2020

fine, you are a medieval peasant, and that you will remain. Please plow the lower 40 with your ox. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 21906/27/2020

R219 Is one of those clueless tourists who will go to Italy and explain the country to the natives.

by Anonymousreply 22006/27/2020

yes, that must be it r220. Unless you get that every Italian is still a medieval peasant you can't understand them. Clearly.

by Anonymousreply 22106/27/2020

I do happen to know something about history, so stop acting like a pissy little Troll.

by Anonymousreply 22206/27/2020

does this bitch look white to english people???!!! give me a break!

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by Anonymousreply 22306/27/2020

well I do happen to know something about history too, so it's all good. The important thing is, who is white? IT is mystery.

by Anonymousreply 22406/27/2020

R201- YOU GO GIRL!

by Anonymousreply 22506/27/2020

We should just do a one-time massive redistribution of wealth. Wealth has been based primarily on bullshit for about 50 years now. Mix it up. Throw it around. Stop pretending it's some sacred thing, that there is some delicate balance where only the most talented and skillful and useful get money. We all know that's horseshit. Whatever you want to call it, reparations, stimulus, whatever the fuck, just start throwing the money around.

by Anonymousreply 22606/27/2020

Theo James.

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by Anonymousreply 22706/28/2020

Hey italians have you gotten it yet?? You are NOT white, because I said so!

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by Anonymousreply 22806/28/2020

Moar.

by Anonymousreply 22906/28/2020

R198 - "They're called "Black Irish" with dark hair and dark eyes (eg. Colin Farrell)."

Don't forget Tyrone Power and Aidan Turner . . .

by Anonymousreply 23006/29/2020

"For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent."

What mode of thought would that be? Shakespeare? Mozart? Albert Einstein? Charlotte Bronte? Mark Twain? The Tudors? The Kennedys? The Roosevelts? Jonas Salk? Robert Louis Stevenson? Evelyn Waugh? Yeats? Emily Dickinson? Jane Austen?

You don't deserve them.

by Anonymousreply 23106/29/2020

228 that guy does not belong to the mediterrenean caucasian race. he is clearly a mixed race hispanic

by Anonymousreply 23206/29/2020

R232 That thing in the purple is the OP of this thread Edwina. He says he is over 50 percent white!

by Anonymousreply 23306/29/2020

Italians get very defensive when you question their whiteness.

by Anonymousreply 23407/01/2020

Because they're white.

by Anonymousreply 23507/01/2020

[quote] Because they're white.

No. It’s because they’re insecure about not being white.

by Anonymousreply 23607/01/2020

R236 They’re secure in their knowledge that you’re an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 23707/01/2020

They think it's a huge offense to be called a non-white.

by Anonymousreply 23807/02/2020

R238 Why should someone accept being called a POC when they're not?

by Anonymousreply 23907/02/2020

R239, I'm not R238 but I think it's funny that they get so upset. Why do they care so much if it's not true?

by Anonymousreply 24007/03/2020

R240 Why do you care so much if it's not true?

by Anonymousreply 24107/03/2020

r240 I'm not r239 and I'm a nationality everyone counts as white, but I'm offended by the sheer American stupidity as well as the entitlement they decide who is what anywhere in the world. "Now that we made up a random hispanic race, no one can define by anything but language (and that that they're drug dealers and rapists of course) it suits our UScentric wordlview to decide that southern Europeans are also not white, although they are literally the infamous white people who colonized the entire world, including this very continent." It just hurts.

by Anonymousreply 24207/03/2020

That's one of the many reasons the article at R17 is so utterly dumb. "How Italians Became White"

Italians are white. They didn't become white. The US doesn't get to decide who is white and who is not.

The Euro press wasn't offended by those calling Antonio Banderas a POC during the Oscars. They were simply shocked at the stupidity.

by Anonymousreply 24307/03/2020

[quote]Italians were Middle Eastern and did have black DNA

National Geographic has done extensive DNA testing and concluded that only 3% of Sicilians and Calabrese Italians have "black" ancestry. Being Middle Eastern does not equate with black, and many other Europeans also have haplogroups that originated in North Africa. Moors didn't genetically mingle much while in Sicily and many of us have higher percentages of Ashkenazi DNA than "Middle Eastern."

The Normans also colonized southern Italy and Sicily for a while, but for some reason that's never mentioned in these threads. Northern Italians have high percentages of Swiss German DNA, which certain DLers like to pretend they don't know.

by Anonymousreply 24407/13/2020

I thought ‘Black Irish’ referred to Irish people with actual black ancestry like Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy. Colin Farrell isn’t even remotely exotic looking. He looks like any other good ole boy from Texas.

by Anonymousreply 24507/14/2020

It means black hair, dangerously pale white skin & blue eyes 👀 (sometimes brown eyes).

by Anonymousreply 24607/14/2020
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