"Perry Mason" on HBO

I didn't even know it took place in the 30s. Now I'm interested!

[quote] it's much more like Raymond Chandler than Erle Stanley Gardner,

In that case they should have filmed Raymond Chandler characters. Not an Erle Stanley Gardner show.

Have you even [italic]read[/italic] the early Erle Stanley Gardner stories from "Black Mask" in the 30s, r2?

Sorry--the early stories were mostly in the Saturday Evening Post, not Black Mask.

I found it dull and derivative. Another hard-boiled fella who never has the time or energy to clean up. The music was great if not entirely original in its conception. But, Rhys is watchable so I’ll give It a few more episodes to hook me.

R5 I agree. However, I think I might just stick with it. There's nothing else to watch this summer (or so it appears), so whatever. It's not awful. I read that Nic Pizzolatto was originally connected to the reboot, thank god he doesn't appear to be involved anymore.

Any nudity?

God forbid they make a period piece detective show that isn't "gritty".

My biopics.

Wrong thread, oopsie!

[quote]Any nudity?

Yes, if you're a chubby chaser.

Matthew Rhys is okay, but he's no me!

I despise Lithgow, horrible actor in everything. I did the first episode but if they use him a lot I will stop watchin.

I enjoyed the first episode, though the ratings were really underwhelming. (On the other Hand, ratings for Yellowstone’s premiere were double that of last year).

Matthew Rhys was great, and so was Lithgow. I don’t know how anyone can watch Lithgow and call him a horrible actor. His Churchill in The Crown was incredible.

Is HBO doling this series out one episode at a time? I might watch it (although I'll have to pretend it's not Perry Mason), but I'll wait until they're all available and I can binge.

I think it would have been more interesting and perhaps gotten better ratings if they had set the show in the late '40s and had Mason as a young attorney, first building his reputation - that is, in keeping with the timeline of the familiar and still-popular TV series. And nothing beats late '40s-early '50s LA for noir atmosphere, if that's what they're going for.

love it. best new show of season....star is hot, its yes gritty and amazing cinematography......good script.....YEA

I gave up after 20 minutes. A whole lot of meh.

Dark and rich in story, im digging it....matthew is sexy as fuk, a real man.

[quote]I enjoyed the first episode, though the ratings were really underwhelming.

Perry Mason surprises with HBO's biggest ratings debut in years.

The legal-detective drama premiered Sunday night to the cable network's biggest series premiere ratings in two years.

Mason was watched by a total of 1.7 million viewers across all platforms — that's more than the comic drama Watchmen (1.5 million) or the Stephen King adaptation The Outsider (1.2 million). If the show continues close to this level in the ratings, a pickup is all but assured.

I tried watching but couldn't get into it. The whole time I was watching, I was thinking, "I bet he smells really bad". Smoking, drinking, never seemed to shower. No thanks.

Glad to hear it did well, eager for the rest of the season, he is an amazing actor, was terrific on The Americans..

There’s the potential for that to happen r15. A second or third season could move Mason into the 1940s. HBO wants to get as much mileage as it can out of the property.

Hated it. Didn't get in more than 15 minutes. Boring.

It was grotty. I’m sick of directors putting green filters over camera lenses & filming on too-dark sets to make us feel gritty. I don’t want to see dirty looking people fucking. Matthew Rhys’s head seems to have grown too gigantic for his body & he looks like a circus geek. Dirty, dark, foul, smelly looking people doing uninteresting things with violence. No thanks.

R19, I got the Perry Mason ratings from show buzz daily.com, which say It came in 89th of 150 shows on Sunday Night.

Its 18-49 demo rating was 0.09 at 9 pm and drew 884k viewers. In comparison, at the same hour, Yellowstone had a demo of 0.89 and over 4M viewers, finishing in 1st place for the night. The difference is stark.

The article you cite mentions “across all platforms,” so I’m sure HBO prefers that spin, adding their different time zone airings, repeats , etc. Regardless, in its 9 pm time slot, the show did not get good ratings.

[quote]The difference is stark.

As is the difference in standards of ratings success between cable and pay-cable TV. HBO is extremely happy with Perry Mason. That doesn't detract from the performance of Yellowstone, which is a huge hit (though a mediocre show).

Very happy, !

Need more Matthew Rhys nudity. That man is so beautiful

Agreed, juicy as heck...smells like beer and irony...

I loved it. It was beautiful to look at, but I love a slow burn story. I loved the way he fucked that chick. It was nasty/hot. Della was a surprise to me, I'm not sure what to make of her yet. They introduce Paul Drake next week. They made the character a black cop, so it will be interesting to see how his story evolves. The fat guy who was fucking the youngest Sheffield daughter had a huge cock.

I loved it yet still have to agree with r24’s reservations.

hope its ratings are fab, and has long run, best new show of the year....

My husband is an actor and had a small part in this...gay cocksucking is coming up!

hope it involves the hot/perry/matthew !!!!

I’m with R23. It was trying SO HARD with the setting and the “vibe” but it was cliche writing and overdone everything. I I prefer more subtlety from cable shows.

P MASON made me realize how amazing most of THE AMERICANS was. And Rhys was just so excellent in that. This felt like a step down in quality.

Perry Mason reminds me how boring nd tedious the Americans was, Mason is pure thriller detective fun. I adore matthew in his dirty wife beater and suckin on a Lucky as he downs whiskey.. I remain, his ass eating whore.

That first episode was mighty slow.

I'm continuing to watch because I like the lead actor and the period genre.

But that first episode was awful slow.

[quote]My husband is an actor and had a small part in this...gay cocksucking is coming up!

So they're doing an homage to Raymond Burr and William Hopper?

R38, I think that would require two scenes, because, while Burr definitely enjoyed smoking the occasional pipe and many people say Hopper did (although I have never seen anyone present actual evidence of same), I don't think they enjoyed each's company in a carnal way, shall we say.

Burr seems to have preferred younger, more boyish types, which would rule out robust, manly Bill Hopper. Since no one has ever claimed direct knowledge of Hopper's supposed homo- or bisexuality, I have no idea what his type was.

It's super-violent. The discovery of the corpse with its head split in two was something else.

It's also super-expensive--they've really spent a fortune on the sets. Last week they had the incredible re-creation of the original Angels Flight raillway at its original location, and this week the huge scene of the Dodson mother being arrested outside the Temple.

Matthew Rhys's face is incredible. It's about the most expressive face in acting. he looks like he's been in incredible torment. it will be interesting to see how Perry Mason once had sex with a man (which he admitted to the DA this episode).

I'm really glad to see Lili Taylor. It's weird to see her playing women in their fifties (I always think of her decades ago in "Dogfight"), but her face is perfect for the Great Depression.

Trivia: the actress last episode who played the Joan Crawford-like star "Velma Duffy," aka "Red" (the beautiful woman who had sex with the Fatty Arbuckle-like character), is Madeline Zima, who played the youngest daughter on "The Nanny."

That hussy is NOT based on ME!!!

You were pretty much a hussy still in 1932, J. The world's most popular hussy, but still a hussy.

I usually love Matthew.

Not so much in this.

The quality of this is so beautiful. they know they have a winner as theyr spending so much on it.

Mr Rhys is amazing, and highly respected in the business.

Delighted the ratings are terrific.

r40

I thought he had the homo sex to get out of the army

Rhys is not even ugly hot. The least believable part of the Americans was that no one questioned why Keri fucking Russell was married to that.

The second episode was so much better than the first. This is going to be a good series and Perry Mason was "queer only once".

I'm always delighted when Stephen Root shows up.

R47 You haven't seen a lot of straight couples, have you?

Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell are a real life couple.

[quote] Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell are a real life couple.

Which negates your (ill-conceived) claim, r47.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find Rhys hot, and so does Keri Russell.

It's almost like different people have different tastes!

It wants to be Rome & Game of Thones in 1930s California. Meh.

That makes no sense, r54. How does it want to be like Rome & Game of Thrones? because it is expensive?

Raymond Burr is Perry Mason. Plus, Burr was a hot hunky bear when he was younger, and a silver fox when he was older.

Ryhs is too thin and too average.

I'll pass.

[quote] How does it want to be like Rome & Game of Thrones? because it is expensive?

Violence, death & explicit sex

It’s HBO. Sunday night, 9pm. It’s required.

We’re we supposed to recognize they guy who killed his co-conspirators in ep. 1?

SPOILER ALERT

So we now know Ennis, a cop, is in on the kidnapping.

What's more to know, why should I keep watching?

So it was the junior cop who (cliche alarm) has some history with the hero PI?

If you are going to post spoilers R60 alert us. I don't plan on watching the show until I have DVR-ed all episodes.

R61

Then maybe you shouldn’t be reading this thread until you have watched it

If you are not going to watch the show for a couple of months, you should stay out of the thread in which people who are watching it now discuss it. Spoilers are inevitable.

I’m not sure anything revealed in episode 1 can truly be called a spoiler.

It wouldn't hurt you to be courteous R62 and R63 and just say "spoiler alert" before you post. Many people read threads about a show or movie before they have watched it and most people have been courteous. It is assholes like you two that make coming here less enjoyable.

[quote]Violence, death & explicit sex

It's Boardwalk Empire all over again, especially seeing that BE director/writer/producer Tim Van Patten shot this week's and last week's episode, Stephen Root turned up in this episode and Shea Whigham costars.

The reason HBO still releases series one episode at a time is so that watching the show can be a communal experience. It is not reasonable for someone to expect every plot point mentioned all season to be proceeded by a spoiler alert for the benefit of someone who wishes to participate in a conversation about a show they haven’t watched yet. And I did not find your complaint particularly polite.

R65 Adult yourself.

If you're going to go onto a thread about a TV show on Datalounge, r65, then you can alwaus expect people on the thread to reveal what last happened after the episode of that show airs. That has [bold]always[/bold] been the way with TV show threads on Datalounge: people would talk about what happened during the last aired episode on the last Game of Thrones or Mad Men thread without posting "spoiler alert!"

If you don't like that tradition, then just don't click on DL threads about TV shows you haven't seen. And if you do, expect you'll get things spoiled for you.

And by the way: you might as well can it with the prissy "this is an outrage to my wounded sense of etiquette!" tone when you yourself are calling other people "assholes."

[quote] What's more to know, why should I keep watching?

You do not have to keep watching if you do not want to do so.

So Perry likes cocks?

R69, I agree with your point about spoilers. Back in the day, Television Without Pity used to create non-spoiler threads for popular shows so people who hadn't seen the latest episode could still talk about it. At IMDB, people used to put [SPOILER] in thread titles, but there were always lots of threads that weren't spoilery. Nowadays, with the severely shrunken discussion options online, if you read a thread about movie or TV show, you have to expect spoilers.

As for the communal experience, I do miss it. I recall with nostalgia rushing to TWOP to discuss the latest episode of Mad Men. There would be such a tidal wave of comments, I sometimes took the day after the premiere and final episodes off from work just to keep up with the fun. It was part of the movie experience to come home and see what others had to say on IMDB. But all that's gone now.

Week-by-week watching isn't worth it, especially now that so many people binge watch that there just isn't that much discussion anymore. (Note that there are only 71 replies after two episodes of PM.) I'm just barely enough of a grownup to wait to find out what happens next, but I can't stand having to organize my schedule around watching a TV show; and, if you're going to leave the show in your DVR or on Amazon for several weeks, you might as well binge watch the whole series. This is more than a bit ironic because, as an eldergay, organizing my entertainment time around the TV schedule was essential for most of my life. Now that I've been liberated, though, I'm not going back.

Perry didn't seem very into fucking that fat Latina.

Even the Guardian's threads about TV shows contain spoilers these days, people should learn to live with them.

I will give this HBO series a try since it's HBO.

I'm enjoying the show, so far, but I didn't grow up with the original Perry Mason so I have an admittedly (dumb) question. Maybe it's just that the remake is bland and generic with the characterization, but can someone explain what makes the character of Perry Mason PERRY MASON? Maybe a better way to ask it is, what is/was the character of Perry Mason known for? Right now, the actual character seems pretty typical of other tv detectives. Does he have anything special?

He's the prototype for all detectives.

[quote] He's the prototype for all detectives.

***ahem***

[quote] Maybe it's just that the remake is bland and generic with the characterization, but can someone explain what makes the character of Perry Mason PERRY MASON? Maybe a better way to ask it is, what is/was the character of Perry Mason known for? Right now, the actual character seems pretty typical of other tv detectives. Does he have anything special?

This is from the wikipedia page on the character Perry Mason, and answers you question:

"Julian Symons has noted that Erle Stanley Gardner "had spent more than twenty years practicing law in California, and the knowledge he gained was put to good use in the Perry Mason stories, which hinge on points of law, forensic medicine or science as clever as a watch mechanism … and also the total lack of characterization".

While the Mason novels were largely a form of pulp fiction of the sort that began Gardner's writing career, they are unusual in that the whodunit mysteries usually involved two solutions: one in which the authorities believed (wherein Mason's client was guilty) and an alternative explanation (wherein Mason's client was innocent). Almost always, the second half of each novel is devoted to a courtroom scene, during which Mason arrives at the alternative explanation and proves it to the satisfaction of the court. "It is perfectly true that our author works to formula; in one sense, the plot never varies," wrote Jacques Barzun. "Having said this, one must add that the variety of persons and circumstances and the ingenuity in contriving the details that Gardner dreamed up in his dozens of cases are astonishing and entrancing.""

R78 Thank you. I had looked on the wikipedia page for the original tv show with Raymond Burr, but NOT the actual character Wikipedia page (obviously). And, well, this explains a lot: "and also the total lack of characterization."

Robert Downey Jr. was originally cast as Mason. His smugness and smirking would have been unbearable.

I turned it off pretty quickly. Not because it was bad; I wanted to enjoy it. But when they showed the baby. . .that just bothered me. What the hell did they do to it? It looked like they tattooed crosses on its eyes. I turned it off right there; it just seemed sick.

They sewed his eyelids open to make the parents think he was alive.

I'm liking it more and more, but as I said above, it repeats and plays to what we all think Los Angeles was in the 1930s. It's not terribly original to show us the seamy underbelly of a town running on glamour and beauty. We get it -- it was all just Day of the Locust, and every cop is crooked, every dame is hard-boiled, every detective holds a secret that makes him a chick magnet, and every lawyer is not to be trusted. I'll stick with it because my husband is hooked.

Hair and makeup are spot on. Sets are great and the war scenes are unexpectedly involving. Rhys is good and looks good in a fedora. Lithgow is wonderful, and so is Rylance in. a great new version of Della Street.

Well, it's a lot better than the new season of Penny Dreadful which is set in the same time and location.

Stephen Root, John Lithgow, and Shea Whigham. It's a trifecta of my favorite character actors.

R81 Sick indeed, but also a reference to this historic LA murder.

R83, I think the wigs are terrible. Emily Dodson’s is probably the worst wig I’ve seen in years. Sister Alice’s is the second worst. Della’s is the third.

Anyway, wigs aside, this is very enjoyable. Top-drawer talent.

Matthew Rhys reminds me of Paul Dooley around the eyes. Like a Bassett hound, capable of looking so so sad.

And are we to assume that Perry’s extreme reaction to Emily’s infidelity is some kind of PTSD due to his own wife?

R87 I imagine it was difficult to decide whether to recreate the Angels Flight OR buy good wigs.

sposed to have some hot gay moments in the series.....I think its beautiful.....wish we could binge on the whole thing. FUN SHOW

no kidding, penny dreadful is shit, cept for the gay stuff......super dum plotlines,,,,,,,,gag

Penny Dreadful is supernatural shit.

[quote] super dum plotlines,,,,,,,,gag

LOL!

I didn't know that there was a real-life original for the dead Dodson baby (even down to the corpse's eyes being forced artificially open to fool the parents paying the ransom). Thanks r86--I'm always surprised when Datalounge brings up another crime that was notorious in its time that I had never heard about before.

I did a little checking on line--here's one of the creepy ransom notes that was sent to Marion Parker's father.

I'm loving it so far. I live in DTLA and wish they'd kept the sets up-it's a shithole down here! I enjoyed Penny Dreadful but the writing was bad. Perry Mason has tighter writing and the plot is moving faster. I find it odd that both shows feature an Aimee Semple McPherson plotline. I guess she's 2020's "It Girl".

She really is having a moment, R95. They released a movie about her pretty recently, too.

"Aimee Semple McPherson plotline. I guess she's 2020's 'It Girl'."

And I played her in 1976!

R97 Yes, bitch, you did.

God, it took me forever to place the grieving mom!

R99 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH, I was wondering why she looked so familiar, but never cared enough to look it up!!

I knew that was Sheila from GLOW from the first moment, but it was Juliet Rylance that as driving me crazy because I couldn't place her. Then I looked up the cast. She looks so different from her role in The Knick with short black hair.

I think the look of the show is very impressive, but I thought that Penny Dreadful also pulled that off and it was the highlight of that series. It was a shock that the Perry character isn't an attorney, but I also never read any of the books.

The grieving mom also played Queen Victoria in "The Greatest Showman".

The grieving mom looks a lot like my mother and her sisters when they were young. (They were blonde and rosy, though). Freaks me out.

episode 2 is so goood .. the production value is off the charts, old streets, cars, trolley cars, etc.....the best ive seen in a while.

matthew rhys as usual is brilliant.

but they need to show more of his/perry's gay life, and less of the war flashbacks, oy vey.

Wish we could binge the whole season, eager to see perry's hot ass get plunged. Its a kool crime thriller show, great acting all round. (goood casting)

I thought that sex scene in episode 1 was super hot, despite the fact that Matthew Rhys was fully clothed. She fucked him out of the bed!

[quote]The least believable part of the Americans was that no one questioned why Keri fucking Russell was married to that.

Did you somehow miss that they were KGB agents in a phony arranged marriage?

Oh, you mean why none of the other characters questioned it? Because they're both incredibly good looking and I can't even figure out which character you think was out of the other's league.

rhys is hot as fuk, his being a brilliant actor only intensifys the thrust of his thick fat cock

Still waiting for the cock sucking - but I'm enjoying the show.....

I keep getting flashes of Paul Dooley when Perry looks pensive.

So is Sister Alice schizophrenic? Epileptic? What’s in the IV?

Officer Drake is inexplicably hot to me.

Watching Episode 3. Whoa, this is slow.

I am actually more hooked than I thought I would be. Not only do we need to find out why the baby was killed and not just returned to the Dobsons, and how both Dobsons are involved as well as Ennis (the evil LAPD detective), but we also don't know why Mason got the "blue ticket" (which was a dishonorable discharge from the army for being gay), but also what Sister Alice's story is and what she's going to do about trying to resurrect the baby.

My guess is that the show will become more and more about the courtroom as the season progresses--this IS Perry Mason after all.

I like both Chris Chalk as Paul Drake and Diarra Kilpatrick as his wife.

Few people have aged worse than Robert Patrick. He was so sexy in Terminator 2 and now he looks like a fat corpse.

I was excited to see Chris Chalk in this. He is sexy af. Still enjoy his performance in Homeland.

Tonight's episode had me riveted. I'm really getting curious about Sister Alice's relationship with her mother. I think she's epileptic but it brings on her visions. I think she's seen something with Mrs. Dodson.

Getting better with ev episode, love the old clothes, cars and interiors.....mr rhys is as usual sexy and witty.

hope we see his hot rump getting abused with joyous abandon.

John Lithgow has always been too weird looking for me.....something about his chin and mouth seem deformed and creepy.....

Chris Chalk is doing a great job in this show......yes.....so many questions. I hope the answers are worthy of the time we're taking to watch....and not just explained away with stupid explanations that don't make any sense i.e. Ryan Murphy.

Enjoying it so far, good production values, like a sunny Babylon Berlin.

Della's a sanctimonious nag

Three episodes in. Pretty good. Solid actors. But is rather quickly becoming convoluted. I hope it doesn't collapse under too many contrivances. They're piling up. Too much "mystery" can be a bad thing.

Chris Chalk is fantastic in this. Most of HBO’s expensive actors are playing mopey stereotypes, but Chalk communicates intensity and unpredictability. I hope he plays a bigger part in this show.

Chris Chalk is really gorgeous. I've never seen him in anything before.

The woman who plays Della looks like a younger Catherine Keener.

^ She really does. Is the coroner supposed to be gay? What kind of fun time was he hoping for?

I thought Lithgow was positively heartbreaking this episode.

I think the point is that Virgil the coroner is very lonely and has poor social skills, and that people hate hearing his stories about cutting up corpses. He just wanted to share friendly stories with Perry and his associate.

I'm not sure that he's meant to be gay. The actor who plays him, Jefferson Mays, is gay, so maybe he just can't hide it well.

I actually thought Lithgow was pretty hammy. He usually is, which is why he was so good as Churchill (who was a hammy person in real life).

[quote]The actor who plays him, Jefferson Mays, is gay,

Really? Is someone going to tell his wife of almost 20 years?

It was COMPLETELY unbelievable that that little blonde girl would carry the box with the giant snakes hidden in it to give to Sister Alice.

That scenario would required that a little girl of only about nine years old was 1) unbelievably strong, 2) had violent enough condemnatory feelings to want to humiliate and denounce Sister Alice as a false prophet and make her physically afraid, 3) was completely unafraid of large snakes, and 4) was an excellent actress who could hide her true feelings of hatred while feigning adoration.

R127, that's the whole ethos of the show: in sunny L.A., the entertainment capital of the world, everyone is down for pointlessly gruesome shock effects.

And, by the way, does anyone on this show have a motive for doing anything? Maybe I've overlooked something, but I'm not seeing it. All I know is that last week's episode made a point of showing us the map of a proposed subdivision development, always a sign that a show is going to go all "Chinatown" and be about real estate.

I saw on IMDB that Lithgow was only in 5 episodes, so I expected him to die. Did anyone else find the suicide a bit too foreshadowed?

That's not a convincing argument that that was an intelligently written scene, r128.

That’s reassuring, R131, since defending the scene was not my goal.

Still no cock sucking.......

A bit of lez-lez, though.

Who is the guy at the Elk Lodge as far as where Perry has run into him before? I mean, I know we know what the guy did, but who is he in relation to the rest of the story? Is he one of the guys at the cult?

each episode is a bit more boring, less of the dead baby stuff plz....more gay

He’s the junior detective on the case, and the fourth man who killed everyone.

Why doesn't Matthew just do a Brothers and Sisters reboot? We all want that.

R135 That's the guy who shot the dude with the false teeth. The corrupt cop.

im bout to give up on it, by ep 4 ive seen no homo stuff.....i want some!!!

Thanks, R137/R139. I knew he was the fourth guy/killer and shot the other three including the one who did the header off of the roof, I just couldn't figure out if we was really that detective or not or if he had some other "regular" interaction with Perry. The production values are stellar but they also seem to make it harder to tell the guys apart! Even the whack job who gave the baby blanket to Sister last night looked an awful lot like the real baby father for a few seconds, and all of the church elders are indistinguishable from everyone else.

R141 Agreed! I thought the dad was the guy who fell off the roof after getting shot. I love the show but all the cops and religious nuts look alike.

Maybe that was not their baby that was dead...justa thought.

Matthew Rhys is the new age James Goldifini. Pure acting talent. Sexy as fuck too.

better see him sukin dik soon or im out of there.

Chris Chalk is terrific. He is so unusual looking--he has such craggy features. And he has an amazing commanding presence.

The actor playing the main villain, Ennis, is also really interesting. His name is Andrew Howard, and he's actually from Wales.

I was not surprised what happened this episode--I knew EB would have to be dead after last week's cliffhanger since the miniseries promised to show how Perry Mason got to be who he became (i.e. a successful defense attorney), and at the beginning of the miniseries he's only a private investigator.

Did people really mostly only wear black, white, brown, and grey during the Depression? No wonder they were depressed.

I am actually enjoying it as a 1930s LA noir detective story and the set pieces are magnificent, but it bears no resemblance to the books or the Burr series whatsoever so I'm confused why they bothered to call it Perry Mason.

And I like the fat Latina aviatrix a lot. She isn't conventionally attractive by a long shot, but she has plenty of charisma and I like her chemistry with Perry. There are feelings there between them, but they're realistic and mature.

Well, they weren't trying to base it on the Raymond Burr series at all. Why would they, when their point here is to give us a new take on the character?

And the Erle Stanley Gardner books (have you actually read them, r147?) are actually famous for telling the readers practically nothing about Mason's background, or how he got to be a defense attorney. They focus almost solely on the cases themselves. So that gives the producers of this series ample room to improvise.

Yes, I can't understand naming it Perry Mason, either. Anyone who watched the original series would certainly be over 50, 55 now, wouldn't they? No network cares about viewers that old, so why bother?

The Latina actress, Veronica Falcon, plays a drug kingpin in a rather cheesy USA series, Queen of the South. I like her a lot, too.

Geesh i wish he would romp in bed with some hot fella...

The Latina woman sounds an awful lot like the late Elizabeth Pena.

I like the actress Juliet Rylance who plays Della Street. I don't believe I've seen her in anything before.

I finally remembered where I'd seen Rylance before -- it was Cinemax's The Knick, opposite Clive Owen. I like her, too.

Still no cock sucking......my patience is about gone.

Interesting that Lithgow's real son played his son in that one scene....he's not quite as ugly as his father.

Maybe Sister will raise the baby from the dead - because he ain't really dead.....

I like the old Raymond Burr series and I like this series. One of the things I liked about the old series, other than the film noir aspects, was all that wasn't said. This show kind of fills in the blanks, in a way and makes the old series richer in my opinion. For instance Burr's Perry was definitely shady and this series sheds more light on why.

if u like the guy that plays perry, u must see the very good The Scapegoat....he meets a man who is his twin, but not related, and switch lives. very delightful.....drama/comedy...

im jus now watching all of the Americans, he is brilliant, having trouble with kerry russell, but lots of good minor actors in it . deep and a puzzle.

(R154) If you want cocksucking why don't you just watch PORN you stupid shit.

Jonathan Rhys is one of those guys that I call "ugly hot".

And Matthew Rhys isn't so bad, either.

😂😁😎 Thanks R159. I don't know where I got Jonathan Rhys from.

Seriously?

Did anyone else sense sexual tension between Mason and Hamilton Burger? Was tea drinking 1930s code for homosex?

^the waitress seemed to think so

"Kavanaugh-he's a scumbag." 😂

did they ever say who the guy was at Perry's ex's house? OR the other woman?

That's Linda's sister and brother in law.

I saw baby's mama in a crazy movie called Her Smell - I think - about three crazy women in a rock band. Elizabeth Moss was the lead singer and baby's mama was the whacked out drummer.....

[quote]Thanks [R159]. I don't know where I got Jonathan Rhys from.

You know, JRM and Mathew Rhys played brothers in Julie Taymor's film. Titus, as Tamora's sons, Chiron and Demetrius. Great cast in that movie.

167, you mean Sheila the Wolf was in Her Smell?? I have to see it now. Wasn't the band sort of loosely based on Babes In Toyland/Hole/Sleater Kinney? I do like a good Alex Ross Perry/Elizabeth Moss collaboration. Queen of the Earth was amazing.

[quote]Did people really mostly only wear black, white, brown, and grey during the Depression? No wonder they were depressed.

In the Depression, was I depressed? Nowhere near.

[quote]The actor playing the main villain, Ennis, is also really interesting. His name is Andrew Howard, and he's actually from Wales.

As is Matthew Rhys.

Is Della gay or bi?

Yet another detective show no one asked for. This won't last a full season.

I’ll take that bet, R172.

We'll see R173.

I wasn't sold on the first episode, but wanted to give it a shot because I loved Matthew Rhys on The Americans so so much. But at this point, I'm all in. I am really enjoying Tatiana Maslany as Sister Alice. I'm super curious what's going to happen with this resurrection. I love how seedy all the rooms are.

The season is eight episodes. Five have already run to good ratings. And you believe HBO is going to pull it off when — before the sixth episode? After the seventh?

Yes R168 - the movie is weird, but then so is the subject. I don't know if the band was based on anyone in particular - but those bitches be crazy and exhausting.

I absolutely love this show. The period detail and lavish budget only make it more enjoyable. I hope HBO does more seasons of it, although I am wary as it is listed as a mini-series. Sad to see John Lithgow go, but the prospect of Justin Kirk as potentially a gay power player (and power bottom?) is attractive. Fingers crossed.

Kirk’s character was the DA who opposes Mason in the TV series..

Season 2 baby!!!! Yay!

I forgot to include the link.

Two seasons? HA! Call me when you do nine seasons of over 30 episodes each.....then we'll talk.

[quote]Season 2 baby!!!

How can that be? R172 told us it wouldn’t even make it through season 1!

What wonderful news! I’m so glad HBO is standing behind this show. It really fills a nostalgic void since Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, True Blood and Boardwalk Empire ended; a big, lavish Sunday night HBO adult drama. And, no, I don’t mean Westworld (ugh).

Can you imagine how hard Raymond Burr must have worked. I think there were 39 episodes in the first season of the old series.

I love Lucy season 1 had 35 episodes! I know it was 30 minutes but still

Yea they used to do 39 episodes a year for most series with 13 weeks off for a summer replacement.....My Little Margie was the first summer replacement for I Love Lucy - and then got picked up for its own run.

Reruns didn't become popular until a couple of seasons later.....one of the reasons filming a series became the norm.

[quote] Did people really mostly only wear black, white, brown, and grey during the Depression? No wonder they were depressed.

No, they didn't. But clothes were often mended or completely repurposed. Most women could sew & pretty much all could baste & cinch a waist. They could buy things like collars to attach to a woman's blouse or to a man's shirt so he could wear a tie. Women could attach a black net to a hat for a funeral.

Fabric shops were in every town. Even in the 1960s lots of girls could sew their own outfits fromSimplicity patterns. Women's magazines often included a pattern for an outfit. My mother could only baste a hem or cinch a waist. She was from a dirt poor family who couldn't afford clothing material to sew into a shirt or skirt.

Families were bigger in the depression and the youngest one got the clothes everyone had already worn, so they looked pretty bad by that time.

I can't remember if it was My Left Foot or Name of the Father where the lead character remarks that each kid went to school in a different day of the week because they didn't have enough clothing. So one girl would wear a dress to school on Monday, one of her sisters would wear it on Tuesday, a different sister would wear it in Wednesday, etc. When not in school, the kids went around the house (and yard) in a nightgown. or just underwear for boys, a diaper for the youngest kids. Underwear didn't exist.

Oops. Underwear for each kid didn't exist.

hell i aint even seen perrys dam ass yet...wtf??????

It and the alienst part2 are my fave shows of late.... awesome production value...

(i tricked with a whore who had tricked often with raymond b.....tipped dam good he said)

crossover::::

perry should boink Dakota Fanning, nude but with ur liddle hat on....

I think the person who said this might go in a Chinatown direction was right. Looks like this will lead to the development project being tied up with the church elders wanting to strike it rich. Lots being set up this episode. I missed the first few minutes though. What was the Shea Whigham character investigating with the Pinkerton men?

So... is there anything really gay at all in this show?

Help me understand something. Della pulled that Perry was apprenticing under EB shit out of thin air right? She typed up that memo and signed EB's name. Perry had no formal law training or schooling, correct? It just seems like Perry became an attorney awfully fast. Except a few awkward moments in court and that fuck up during his opening statement, I would think there would be a bigger indication that this guy was out of his league. I just want to make sure that I didn't miss anything.

Della is a lez R194.

funny u should mention chinatown,,,,,i had the same thought...

tho im sick of the one pony plot, and the evangelist fug lady......ugh....kill that plot

she looks like an old honeymooners lady.

I thought it was mentioned earlier in the show that Perry had gone to law school but didn't sit for the bar exam. I watched the marathon yesterday. I'm sure I'll watch again, I'm sure.

Anyone wondering if that wasn't really baby Charlie? I'm thinking that's the only way the "rising" will happen again.

Perry in the courtroom as an attorney - at last. That was awesome.

But I think there was a mistake - Perry cross examined the baby daddy and seemed to be asking questions about things that weren't covered in the direct examination - which is not legal....

Of course we didn't see the entire direct examination....but.....

Yes. Della said Perry went to law school but didn't sit for the exam.

All of the maps in the credits seem to be pointing to a Chinatown type plot twist.

R197 I thought the same thing about baby Charlie....

I don't think so, r197. California is one of the few states in which you can apprentice yourself to a lawyer and sit for the bar exam.

I mentioned earlier my husband was an extra and said there's gay sex in this but he's wondering if it got cut. Hamilton Berger is gay and it has something to do with that. Still 2 episodes so we'll see. If not this season maybe the next.

I don't think I can wait that long R201.

[quote] But I think there was a mistake - Perry cross examined the baby daddy and seemed to be asking questions about things that weren't covered in the direct examination - which is not legal....

Not true. He can ask questions to cast doubt on the witness’s credibility.

I wasn't happy with the writing last night. Obviously they wrote Mattheew Rhys's mimicry abilities into the script by having his talk to himself in John Lithgow's voice, but it took me right out of the story--only actors are able to mimic people that well (because they train themselves to do it). I thought even less believable was the idea that Perry would repeatedly say "fuck" so frequently in the judge's chambers: even if I could buy that Perry would allow himself to do that (which made no sense since he doesn't swear like that in the courtroom), it is simply unbelievable a judge would stand for that in 1932 during a trial. He would have warned Perry the first time he said "fuck" and thereafter would have thrown him out of his chambers. he wouldn;t have stood for that in his chambers unless he knew Perry VERY well--that's just not how people behaved in those days.

I also thought Perry's breakdown in the car on the road back to his farmhouse was melodramatic and stupid.

I still think the actresses are all terrific, and I am really struck still by how fascinating Chris Chalk is as an actor. I had not seen him before this series. The overall plot line for the series is strong, even though the writing for this particular episode was so weak.

Taylor Nichols plays the corrupt church elder with the glasses, and I am surprised he still has the high voice he had when he was a younger actor (he was memorable in the Whit Stillman movies "Metropolitan" and "Barcelona"). I would have thought he would have trained himself to deepen his voice now that he's going to play these kinds of roles for the rest of his career.

The actor who plays the judge was Max Headroom.

I have a friend who is not an actor, but she is a great mimic. She can mimic anyone. One of the fun things she will do at parties is mimic a conversation between two different people and it’s always spot on and fun.

I agree with you about Chris Chaulk. I was a little hesitant about the character being black because I would think it would be hard to be a private investigator and black during that time period, but I like the cop origin story.

Something else I have a question about, I was looking at the courtroom audience last night and they had black people and white people sitting together. Is that in anyway historically accurate? Even for 1930s Hollywood?

Did anyone notice that the foulmouthed clerk in the Denver office that Strickland visited was Stephanie Hodge, from "Nurses" and "Unhappily Ever After"? She was almost unrecognizable.

I don't recall anyone ever claiming that Perry went to law school.

The foulmouthed clerk was hilarious.

And no one ever said Perry Mason went to law school. they were very clear last week that Della Street forged Jonathan's signature (as she had many times in the past) on an application for Perry to have been considered to have passed an apprenticeship, and as someone said upthread, you legally can pass the bar in California without having gone to law school if a lawyer certifies you have apprenticed to him/her. Perry was then coached through the California that episode by a Yale Law School grad.

^who helped him cheat. Remember he said they had not changed the questions for years?

It was his future foil, Hamilton Burger, btw.

Thanks R203 I didn't know that.

getting bored with della, she seems......thick.

yea no gay sex, as promised, big bummer, im outta there, jus too zzzzzz

Gay sex was promised? By who? If you're a sad horndog just watch porn.

in several dozen blogs u skunt

There WAS gay sex between Della and Hazel.

I thought Hazel was saving her all gay sex for Mrs. B!

Blogs, ugh.

attny general william barr said it would have homo sex !

You forgot my lemon slice.

they culd at least show his arse, unless its flat and fug

very bored with the plot and his constant grumpiness

They went astray focusing so much on the evangilist lady......boring and senseless.

im out.

Yea, tired of seein that old blonde biddy caterwallin around....

I like Sister Alice.

Compare and contrast: Sister Alice (Perry Mason) and Sister Molly (City of Angels/Penny Dreadful).

They are both based on real-life Sister Aimee

Yes, that's why her picture is in between them at R225.

But ya didn’t mention her, r227, did ya?

bored with sister molly, git her off the show asap......new subplots plz

Pity it wasnt a hot male evangelist that seduced our Perry....might liven this corpse of a show up a bit.

R221, 222, 223, 229, 230, etc. seems to think if he repeats himself enough Sister Alice will vanish in a puff of smoke.

And also seems to be missing that Sister Alice and company are integral to whatever the reason is for why the baby was kidnapped, etc., in the first place. In fact, it was probably all just so she could have a "resurrection" moment for her ministry. She's probably the one behind the whole thing.

#221 go fuk ur moms cock

I think it's a welcome addition to the covid-sheltered viewing option. I waited until yesterday in order to binge watch; that worked for me.

I think the music is truly beautiful - but does seem like a retro-cool jazz version of what the 40s noir world was, although the time period is 1932 Totally inaccurate, but sets just the right mood. Remember Alan Rudolph's Choose Me? The visuals and music feel like that.

R232 I like your idea - I hope the writers of the show have as good an imagination as you do.

R232, I agree that the church has to be a key part of the story, but we’ve seen POV shots of Sister Alice that have shown us that she’s an unstable wild card. She seems to be too impulsive to be in charge of an elaborate web of deceit plot.

It's that mother. There is something fishy about her.

the fish we smell is not on perrys cock, cause his asshole smells of boywhore cumwads.

Vile ⬆️🙄

An odd episode--better than last week, but still odd. They made it very clear in the beginning flashback that Lili Taylor in effect sold her daughter Alice to that man who came to drive them into town, but did nothing further with it--I'm sure it will be cleared up in the next episode, but it seemed odd to raise it and then not follow through with it.

They are still giving too many opportunities for Matthew Rhys to ham it up with the self-anguish.

I do like the actresses who play Sister Alice and Della Street still, and also Chris Chalk. Fine actors, the three of them.

Yes, R240, Rhys with the yelling and the drunken self-pity is getting on my nerves. I wish Chris Chalk had been the main character: his character comes across as tough, analytical, and driven. He'd sort this mess out in a few hours.

Hamilton Burger is GAY! William Talman must be spinning in his grave tonight!

Oh—Didn’t you pick up on that from the lemon slice? Plus, Yale Law School.

Well, it was merely suggested back then. I thought maybe he was dating Della (and that she was bi) and that's why he was doing favors for her. I don't think they've ever explained how they knew each other.

[quote] I wish Chris Chalk had been the main character: his character comes across as tough, analytical, and driven. He'd sort this mess out in a few hours.

It wouldn't be the Perry Mason show then. But I agree, a period series with him as the lead detective would be fascinating, and probably better than the show we're watching. He's not traditionally handsome, but there's something intensely watchable about his face, and he has an electric screen presence as well as genuine acting talent.

Alice was tired of being pimped out by her mother. She knew she couldn't resurrect Charlie, she was trying to bring down the church. Mommy Dearest knew about her plans so she arranged for a baby to magically appear.

Shit, still more of this evangelist lady in 2nites episode. enough!

she a colossal bore.

Cant even watch it any more, i just tape it and fast forward till sumthing semi interesting pops up.

bummer.

Poor Perry......such a loser....

Matthew Rhys belongs in the "Failed Leading Men" thread.

What the duck were you idiots watching? Tonight’s episode was terrific, and tied together so many loose ends leading into next week’s finale.

And Matthew Rhys has been great.

Am trying to like it, nice clothes, sets n stuff... but who we sposed to care about? perry and his drunk screamiing fits? the bleach blonde ho preacher lady and her bozo wild run down the street lookin for meth? the mug faced mommy of dead baby who belongs on an old maid card?

della, yea, lets root for della....and her mightty fine wig.

robt downey and wife produced it tim van patten directs who to blame for this mess...

Rhys is so good, surprised he ok'd this script...Here is hoping next season is better, if there is one.

Ratings are bad, may not even be back.

It was renewed several weeks ago.

When I see "nudity" in the opening credits, I always get a little excited......then.......Chinese tits.....oh well.

jesus.

Ok, having not watched the whole episode yet, was that really baby Charlie?

I'm guessing Sister Alice's mother was in on the whole thing with the church elder. But it's hard to believe the parents didn't recognize their own child. And did Sister Alice run into traffic and get hit by a car? I thought I heard tires screech just as the screen went dark.

Glad it was renewed

That wasn't Charlie. Birdie arranged for the press to be there when that baby magically appeared. She probably got him from the orphanage that's ran by the church. Birdie wasn't going to let Sister Alice bring the church down with her resurrection scam.

I just happened to be reading the July 6, 2020, People magazine "Picks" article that had this lovely sentence about the series:

"Rhys gets a huge assist from Juliet Rylance as Della Reese, Mason's assistant."

Edited by Tom Gliatto - if anyone knows, him straighten him out.

I didn't know Della Reese was a skinny white secretary in the 30s!

R260 which one is birdie?

[quote] And did Sister Alice run into traffic and get hit by a car? I thought I heard tires screech just as the screen went dark.

You did hear that. They left it as a cliffhanger, but I think they should have made the tire screech louder--one of my friends today hadn't heard it well either.

Whether she actually got hit and killed is something we'll find out next week. They did not show her in the previews for next week, which could mean anything.

Birdie is Sister Alice's mother.

[quote] Ok, having not watched the whole episode yet, was that really baby Charlie?

No. Baby Charlie is still dead. There was a little private colloquy between Sister Alice and her mother (in the middle of the street surrounded by other people! Somehow no one else seemed to hear it) that made it clear her mother had spirited Charlie's corpse out of the coffin and was now claiming this live baby (that she got who knows where) was Charlie resurrected because she thought that was the only possible way forward.

git rid of sister alice, sick of her old fuk face...

R83, R87---I think the wigs are THE WORST! I am someone who does not notice wigs unless they are especially terrible, and these are bad all the way across. Lili Taylor's, the accused woman, the evangelist---all awful. They really cut corners on the hair hats!

Lupe seems to have her own hair. She is a bad ass, I love her character's no fucks given, fuck and fly personality. I'd watch a show about her adventures with or without Perry Mason.

I *LIKE* Matthew Rhys' face. He's not pretty, I like dissipated eye bags and other careworn signs. I enjoy Shea Whiggam (sp?) in just about everything.

The murdered people and the baby are damned gruesome. The story made Perry a lawyer pretty effortlessly, he picked up rhetorical skills on the job. OK!

Would watch a second season.

r262 A skinny, white LESBIAN secretary.

One more episode - one more chance for cock sucking.

Which baby is the real baby?

[quote]One more episode - one more chance for cock sucking.

With our luck, it will probably be attached to the butch Latina Aviatrix.

"You fucked me and then you FUCKED me."

precious time frittered away on the evangilist bitch,

not gay enuf , im out

The cemetery scene was just was over the top bonkers. Nevertheless, the ending was rather good.

Does anyone have a flow-chart of the plot?

I don't know what you mean by a flow-chart, r276, but NYT, tvline, Atlantic and New York run regular recaps and other features.

I mean I’m finding the conspiracy difficult to keep up with.

It seems unlikely Perry Mason would be unaware that his property was being auctioned off and that knowing, he would not have a plan to keep it. He’s a clever fellow, you know.

R279 I agree, that was bullshit.

I like the actor, but I just don't care what happens to the Perry Mason character.

I've started to root against him.

R278, it seems less like an overarching conspiracy than a series of blotched crimes, one leading to another, without much planning.

Great finale tonight. Everything got wrapped up and they set us up for season 2. There were a few things that I side-eyed, but nothing that took away from the show. Love that remake of the original theme.

R282 Not a great finale - I waited all series long for Ennis on the stand, then it's a fantasy fake out.

bullshit

doesn't deserve a second season

I didn't think I was going to like this series - I found episodes 1 & 2 kind of slow going - I think I was trying to hard to keep track of all the characters instead of just going with the flow of the story.

During episode 3 something clicked and I got totally caught up in this show - it feels like the best thing I've seen in years..

I like the Depression era setting and costumes. I like the feeling that Perry and Della are up against powerful unknown forces involved in a plot to convict an innocent woman for the kidnapping and murder of her baby. As Perry and Della created their new alliance, it also started to make more sense as the back story to the 1957-1965 CBS series, albeit with a more empowered Della Street.

I love Lili Taylor as Birdy, the mother of Sister Alice - although I was racking my brain trying to remember what I'd seen her in - and finally realized (with help from IMDB) she played Lisa, Nate's wife, in Six Feet Under.

Interesting how these Welsh actors capture the whole 1930's American accents so well...

[quote]I think I was trying to hard to keep track of all the characters instead of just going with the flow of the story.

*trying TOO hard

good final episoode 2nite...loved tht familiar perry mason theme music at the end

Who killed the baby?

Explain the damn plot to me. More loose ends than Marlo Thomas" puss.

As with the Americans, plots never clear !

The killing was unintended. The kidnappers found a wet nurse for the baby (the asian prostitute at the whorehouse), but she was on heroin and her milk poisoned the baby. So they found a way to complete the ransom by stitching Charlie's eyes open so that he looked alive when the parents saw him on the Angel Flight. And then everyone connected with the botched kidnapping had to be killed.

What's not clear is Birdy's role in the kidnapping. To say nothing of where she got the "miracle" baby.

Two touches I particularly enjoyed:

Hamilton Berger saying nobody ever confesses on the witness stand.

The theme music from the old Perry Mason show incorporated into the credit sequence.

I want to see a Hamilton Burger - Paul Drake sex tape.

Yeah, the whole thing was a plot to get the church out of debt. Birdie was in it up to her ears. What was unclear to me is how involved was Sister Alice. The flashback scene to Birdie pimping out Alice to that guy, was probably an indication that Alice was probably "unwillingly" involved, but we will probably never know. The saddest part of the finale was how Emily ended up, completely broken and now used.

One thing I didn't get was the final scene. What did Perry take out of the matchbox and blow away?

A thread he took from Baby Charlie's eye.

The only thing I didn't like from last night was the nod to wokeness that Della "Reese" will not be Perry's secretary, but she will be his partner......

What was in the note that Mason's sex partner found in the bottle in his empty house? I couldn't read it.

I wasn’t thrilled with that ending and if it weren’t for Datalounges I wouldn’t be able to have figured it out. I’ll stick with Raymond Burr.

R294 “The price was fair. Look after the cows."

R295 read this article on TV Line. It sort explains how they approached this series. They didn't want to/couldn't do a retread of the Burr series.

I agree about Della being a partner thing. Also, I love Chris Chaulk, but I do wonder how realistic a black PI would have been in the 1930s.

R293 I thought the Della character's language about her "associate" status was, perhaps, anachronistic. (I won't use it as an opportunity to criticize current, or "woke' values). But it was consistent with her character - one of the more interesting writing choices, I thought. When Perry tells her he already knew about her woman lover... she didn't flinch nor shrink away in shame. "I thought you knew, but I didn't think you'd throw it in my face like that." She stood her ground, then went on to talk business. Then later when Perry said he likes the girlfriend (a kind of apology for using her to vent against Della earlier), again, Della's having none of it. "Yes, she's a pip. And it's none of your business." I think strong lesbians in the 30s lived like that... not shrinking away in weakness or shame, but also not letting others in... none of their business.

The show was too damn 'woke'.....the della thing, and other stuff, ya know...

Interesting to see DL with problems about "woke" revisionism. For the first 3/4 of the 20th century any hint of same-sex connections or relationships was very covert, or as some source of evil and shame, or as comic relief. Gay lives just didn't see the screen in any real or interesting ways. Now, making films about the past, I guess folks prefer the story and character to be stuck in that "mainstream" lifeworld... not updated with what's able to be seen and said now.

An example is Maurice (the Foster story) which presented an Edwardian England that had presented explicit gay affection... not just a whiff of shame in some quirky, abnormal, shameful plot detail.

Wouldnt have killed the show to be a tad like the original series with mr burr, oh no,, gotta have this n that, to be g dam woke.

when this shits gonna simmer down????

talk of della made a partner in first episodde, git real

my throat gags with pc warriors.

r301 [quote]my throat gags with pc warriors

I bet it does, I bet it does.

thanks, r296

In theory, I have no issue with the ‘wokeness’ of current TV series. I do have an issue when it takes me out of the story. And to be quite honest, even though I enjoyed Perry Mason, sometimes I was taken out of the story by certain scenes and actions because I have to stop and think would this be possible in 1930s Los Angeles?

Yes. The wokeness was gagging. When she announced she was an associate I thought that to be over the top.

The thing I find anachronistic about a lot of these cable shows set in periods before the late '60s is the obscene language. Four-letter words and other "bad language" were not used by middle and upper-class people in mixed company or professional settings in those days. It's really jarring to me.

Della’s cheerful announcement that she was going to become an attorney was off-putting. Lady, it’s 1931 and there are no laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex. Good luck getting into law school, or staying in the face of harassment from your male classmates and teachers.

I was disappointed with the ending of the trial. The prosecutor stopped arguing that there was anything connecting Charlie’s mother with his murder. The whole thing was over; Perry should have made a motion to have the charges dropped. Obviously he's not yet a hot-shot attorney.

the DA said he was going to refile but Emily was able to just leave? It was mentioned that she was a free woman

It wasn't bad. Could really slow at times. Surprised it came from the Downeys. Considering their car wreck Doctor Dolittle. RDJ was originally supposed to play Mason.

I guess r300 thinks gays didn't exist in the past. Maurice was based on a book written by a gay man who was writing about his experiences as a gay man in the early 20th century. I guess that's "woke" to you

It's not true that middle class people never swore around others

It's also not true that female lawyers didn't exist in the 30s.

[quote]It's not true that middle class people never swore around others

I never said that ... I said they didn't use that kind of language in mixed company or in a professional setting. Even "damn" and "hell" were problematic back then, much less "fuck" and "shit," both of which were used liberally in PM.

R311, people do things that are problematic all the time. People did problematic things back then, too.

I enjoyed it. I liked the soundtrack, I think I recognized a few songs from Pennies From Heaven.

I wonder if Della and her girlfriend gossip about Garbo and Dietrich the way we do, 88 years later.

[quote]I was disappointed with the ending of the trial. The prosecutor stopped arguing that there was anything connecting Charlie’s mother with his murder.

Because as Perry mentioned, the had no real evidence against her. He was attacking the woman's character because he could not connect her to the crime.

R310 Sorry I wasn't clear or was misunderstood.

That's the whole point that 1) yes there were gay humans before 1970s and 2) no they were not portrayed in media other than a) comic relief b) completely covertly or c) an example of something abnormal/evil.

Maurice was written by Foster while he was alive (funny how that works) and was not published until much later... and not made into a movie faithful to the story until later still.

Again the point: gay people in previous eras were not portrayed realistically or explicitly by media of the 20th century (film) until.. the 70s? So current productions that portray gay humans (including strong-willed lesbians) of 1932 might, by definition, well seem "inappropriately woke" (and can we retire the term woke? like "social justice warrior" and "political correctness" it excuses bullshit... no, it's not ok to use the "n" word unless you are black... I don't care if that's "PC" or not).

This point doesn't excuse what may be anachronistic in terms of culture, language, or style.

Did anyone understand the last line by the evangelist woman?

[quote] It's not true that middle class people never swore around others

They did, but their swear words were different. "Hell" and "damn"(and "goddamn") were considered swear words back then, and were used by middle class people. "Shit" and, especially, "fuck" were not in wide circulation then--they were used in the armed forces, and by lower class men; but genteel middle class people would mostly avoid them, until after WW2.

Perry Mason would NEVER have been allowed to say :"fuck" in a judge's chambers--hen would have been thrown out the first time he said it and held in contempt of court.

[quote] It's also not true that female lawyers didn't exist in the 30s.

That's true, but they were not common, and it was often difficult for a woman to take a law degree. Not many law schools were open to women.

8 fucking episodes and it's a mistrial? fuck that

And I'm suppose to root for bribing a juror? How is that any different than the corruption of Trump and his cunt enablers.

fuck this show

r318

I was wondering where they got that money if Perry is so poor

oh and the Sister Alice ending was a cop out.

She runs away and disappears.....wow that was so exciting (not)

r317 Thank you for chiming in. I decided to give up arguing with r310/r312

r319 I assumed they got it from selling the house to the aviatrix.

Someone please tell me who the guy was that had the thugs kill Ennis.

And why did they kill him after the trial and not before, I mean if Ennis wasn't untouchable which they made it seem like he was throughout the season.

I was nodding on and off and trying to care.

thanks in advance

R323 He was a police officer (Chief?) who was aware of the corruption, but didn't want to be aware of the details, and wanted to avoid any possibility that Ennis might turn, or even accidently give up information about the scam. He's the "superior" in the scheme who told Ennis to "end" the others who were still alive and knew about the plot. So Ennis killed the church accountant who was taking his share and leaving...

r323/r324 He was Ennis's partner - Holcomb.

That’s an awful lot of murder over $100,000.

I want to perform skin care o. the face of Paul Drake. So many bumps.

^^^"on" the face ^^^

i get the feeling there were too many cooks in the kitchen, as the plot was all over the place and ending left loop holes the size of della's ambition, by the by, i dint think that actress was a good fit for della. she be smarmy way she played it. next seasn she will be playin perry.

maybe they will clear up more next season, hope not, hope we wake up to find this series never happened, and that perry mason is bout to begin 8 episodes ago with a clear insightful often fun plot story.

shocked that good actor who played perry didnt have the writers get it together....

all in all, cept for the costumes and cars, too much smoke got in way of the show....give it a 50% on rot taters.

They threw ev thing but the kitchen sink into this show to make it gritty, grotty, grueling to watch...

for love of god fire all the directors of this season and onward into the next, Della's and Fanning's Detective Whore Agency.

I liked the Burr version of the show and I liked this version. The Burr version was very much of it's time and cleaned up some of Perry's rougher edges from the books and the radio series. I use this series to fill in some of the blanks in the Burr series. If you watch the early episodes of season 1 of the Burr version it is a little darker and you got the impression that Perry was shady and fucking his clients and Della, but someone clearly stepped in cleaned it up by episode 4 or 5.

In this version, they borrowed heavily from the books and were able to play the grittier and slimier aspects of Mason. This origin story definitely had some holes and lacked some clarity, but for me that wasn't a deal breaker. Even going back to the Burr series, even though they wrapped each case up in a neat bow little every week, you knew that there was tons of story that we didn't get to see after the witness box confession and the Paul/Della/Perry wrap up tag.

My biggest problem with this show is something that I'm just gonna have to get over. Because I think that going forward period pieces are going to reflect modern sensibilities and not necessarily the ugly and complicated truth of the actual history.

R326 $100k in 1932 would be $1,881,000 in today's dollars.

And $1.8 million ain’t worth 7 murders.

I liked the show, despite the underwhelming finale (mistrial, weird attraction Sister had for Perry, wokeness the characters had going forward). Most disappointing for me was fact that Perry bribes a juror to be a holdout. I am only familiar with Burr’s PMn so if this is a sleazy grittiness that comes from the novels, well, color me surprised.

And yes, I too believe fewer and fewer period pieces will be allowed to accurately depict those times. Watching how the police chief and other officers treated Paul Drake made me feel uncomfortable: the implied racism and ever-present threat of violence against him and his wife. But it is accurate, and I think was important to include here.

The bribed juror came out of nowhere and what did the land deal have to do with anything?

r334 And seeing the black characters more fully fleshed out, with a community and homes and aspirations in the face of oppressive racism... I guess is too "woke" for some people... who'd like them to stay in their place.

Again, I agree that the language Della used in her assertion to break into new status in employment was anachronistic and seemed off key. But I am old enough that I remember my aunt and her lesbian cohort in the 50s and 60s, who had been young women in the 30s... and there was a strength, energy, assertion, and privacy among them that the Della character totally seemed to reflect.

I loved it when he finally told his ugly Latina girlfriend to fuck off.

R336 you can’t point out one part of my post where I indicated anything of the sort re: the black community, so I won’t ask you to. I will also not apologize to you because you misunderstood my meaning since it’s clear you’re drunk.

I hadn’t recalled the scene on the beach or in the end where viewers could see the strong community Drake and his wife had around them. I was merely speaking to every scene Drake was in with not just Ennis and Holcomb who were clearly villains, but even the Chief, or that disgusting woman at that disgusting motel. Those scenes were acted well, IMO, because I felt the racism, uneven power, and implied violence that one black man must have felt back in that day. And feeling that made me uncomfortable, because I’m watching it in a time when that _OVERT_ behaviour is repugnant... though racism still does exist.

R338 Not sure who is the inebriated; I was actually agreeing with you, and reinforcing your point as a response to others on the thread who seemed to challenge this "revisionist" history that simply to more accurately capture the grounded reality of the time.

"Because I think that going forward period pieces are going to reflect modern sensibilities and not necessarily the ugly and complicated truth of the actual history."

There was plenty in the show that was ugly and complicated.....it's hardly Walt Disney fare. I guess the Republicans here want to bitch about people for being "woke" though

I think some of you are twisting the concerns of those of us who question the "wokeness" of the series. I think it's amazing and worthy of applause that we saw the black characters, black lives fleshed out. I loved the Paul Drake character and I love the black lady he was talking to in the bar and his wife.

I just question their placement in the "white world". And this is so minor, but I question mixed seating in the courtroom and at that church. I didn't have an issue with Paul being a cop, because they assigned him to the "black" beat... but as the chief PI for an attorney with an overwhelming white clientele how does he blend into that world ? And I realize that California 1932 is not Mississippi 1932, and a lot of California's racial laws were aimed at Asians, but this is the same town that a few years later wouldn't let Hattie McDaniel sit with her GWTW costars at the Oscars.

And yes, I understand that it's minor... I just find it odd. And personally, as a black person, I think it let's white people and their segregation/Jim Crow nonsense off the hook.

R335, the church was buying the land because they'd heard the Olympics were going to held near there. The church was planning to build the city of Girard and grow the church. When that fell through, the land was worth nothing. They were in debt; the kidnapping was devised so that Dodson's father would pay the $100k. I think Ennis was supposed to turn the money over to the church.

Holcomb had Ennis killed because he was a loose cannon. When Holcomb went to see Ennis at his house, Holcomb mentioned something about not being told about the kidnappers being murdered and the Chinese hooker.

I think the juror was bribed because George (Emily's co-adulterer) was involve in the kidnapping. He's the one who fell from the building. Knowing that George was there with the kidnappers, it must have been hard for Perry to determine if Emily was involved or not.

And it turns out they didn't even need to bribe the juror, but Pete didn't tell Perry that.

I forgot the Chinese hooker—8 murders.

It won't matter once Della Reese records her first record and becomes a star - she'll leave the legal profession far behind and take her hot mama on the road for a big tour.

She'll be the 1930's version of Madonna......

R344, Would you list the 8 murders? I'm stuck on 6. Thanks

The baby Three kidnappers Elder Seidel The hooker Ennis The 8th one

The baby was a murder? It was an accidental death, the heroin in the wet-nurse prostitute's milk killed the kid. Unintended.

An unintended death in the commission of a major felony like kidnapping is murder.

R349 Oh, details, details.

I've watched the first three episodes after reading this thread, spoilers noted but whatevs, and am disappointed by the show. It very much has a TV Show Aimed at Males 35+ feel to it with all the gratuitous violence, that rough sex scene, and the broody main character with his misunderstood military history (he's really kind of a hero, but will never tell anyone cuz they'd never believe him!).

The female preacher scenes are straight outta Day of the Locusts and I can't help comparing this show to that movie since they both take place in LA in the 30s.

But I do like the costumes and scenery, and this Drake character so will stick with it.

I really dislike Della Street. She has no warmth or realism. She’s just a mannered actress checking character boxes. Female, not timid, not a secretary, lesbian, ambitious, equal to Perry, cool, calm, collected, etc. A better actress could have made her interesting.

[quote] The female preacher scenes are straight outta Day of the Locusts and I can't help comparing this show to that movie since they both take place in LA in the 30s.

You do realize that both are based on a incredibly famous historical female preacher in Los Angeles, Sister Aimee Semple McPherson, who was the most famous evangelical preacher of her day (the 1920s and early 30s).

I loved this show. I love Film Noire and I loved the character and actress who was based on Sister Aimee. I thought it was BEAUTIFULLY shot. I'm not a huge Rhys fan but thought he was really good. I've also loved Juliette (Della) since that craptacular miniseries 'American Gothic' a few summers back.

R353 The evangelist's character and church (the white men in droves standing around her discussing how to keep the cash flow primed...) was both chancy and evocative of the era. Chancy because of the crowds in the tabernacle and those spectacles - true to Angeles Temple's services (the building is still there in Echo Park) but also seeming like over-the-top revisionist TV. (All the up-thread critiques of anachronistic revisionism).

McPherson was a huge figure in the 30s .. her disappearance and scandal. More than evangelism , her church spread Pentecostalism - it became the Assemblies of God denomination. Anticipated TV Evangelism, Christo-fascist Trumpism, and feel-good showtime Christianity like Joel Osteen and all the Hillsong Beiber-Kanye nonsense.

I finished watching the whole season of Broody Mason last night and remain disappointed.

I won't bother tuning in for season two.

Rhys is such a fine actor. I was just watching him play two different men who look identical having a conversation with each other in The Scapegoat. His performance in PM was disappointing. Overly broad.

Michael McMillan was so good on True Blood. It was disappointing to see he only had two very brief scenes as a fellow lodger at Della’s boarding house.

Clearly I"ll be in the minority here, but I thought Matthew Rhys completely missed the mark with this characterization. This needed a Jack Nicholson, someone who could actually be charming while doing dark things. Rhys was just hostile to everyone and completely unbearable. That was the biggest problem for me. All the anachronistic stuff makes me nuts too, but I've come to expect such sloppiness nowadays. Nothing will ever be made true to the period anymore because everyone is too afraid to do it. Anyway, they better fucking fix Mason's personality for Season Two. Because in Season One he was fucking insufferable.