Anonymous Letter From a Terrified Lesbian

“I’ve never felt as shouted down, ignored, and targeted as a lesbian *within* our supposed GLBT community as I have over the past couple of years.” —Sad Lez

Sad Lez is “terrified” that she could lose her job over a “like.” And although I wish I could say her fear is irrational, it’s not. That’s where we’re at. This is where we’ve arrived.

“LGBTQ” and co., have demonstrated such venomous retaliation toward lesbians, for crimes as simple as a “like” or a “repost,” or for being openly same-sex attracted (something we’re told we’re no longer allowed to celebrate with Pride).

The house of rainbow has become more like a carnival house of horrors… A powerful propaganda machine, fueled by big corporate bucks. Nothing is off-limits any more. Not even toddlers. So drunk with power, so cocky in their grip, that on multiple occasions, non-lesbians, who now run Dyke Marches, have told lesbians not to attend… The Dyke March.

The male-dominated “LGBTQ” has no problem slinging slurs, revising history, or threatening those of us who dare to call out the lies. And its media redacts the word “lesbian,” as though we’re a bad dream and they wish we’d just disappear. They have no moral qualms when it comes to enforcing censorship and controlling the media on the left—Controlling what information readers on the left may and may not have access too.

“I’m actually afraid to follow either of you…or like most of your posts because I’m terrified someone will brand me [and] take it back to my Company.” —Sad Lez

Lesbians have organized and moved underground in droves—Vetting, secret passwords and all. We’re among the most vocal in our opposition. But so many, like the “terrified” lesbian behind this letter, have fallen silent out of fear.

There are a handful of vocal figures (who “identify” as “lesbians”) that back up the “LGBTQ,” even though its become dangerously anti-lesbian and pro child abuse. They’ve not only backed it up, they’ve lead virtual homophobia parades that specifically and exclusively target lesbians. It’s hard to say what motivates them… Perhaps they crave validation in the way of “likes” (and in quantities that only the non-lesbian majority can provide). Perhaps it’s greed or a desire to be seen… Maybe they’re just bad people. Perhaps they’re damaged, or maybe they’re just not playing with a full deck.

“… I follow your feeds closely. Please feel free to share this; I’ve made it anonymous enough to feel safe, I think.” —Sad Lez

When did it happen, that someone like me, a lesbian on the left, would need to actually start a new publication, on the left, just so that a young lesbian desister could tell her story and get it published (through a publication on the left)? When did it happen, that lesbians, like Sad Lez, came to fear the organizations and publications that once promised to protect us? That lesbians, like Sad Lez, felt so intimidated, so targeted, so terrified that they could lose their jobs just for clicking “follow”? When did it happen that someone like me could be seen as even remotely controversial simply for being a lesbian?

The gesture of an anonymous letter, in the current climate, is a small act of bravery. As is going a step further, giving consent to publish that letter anonymously. And if we take a moment to understand the justified fear this lesbian feels—the possibility that this letter could somehow be traced back to her, that if it is, she will quite possibly face consequences—then we understand that this small gesture, isn’t quite so small.

That said, I want to thank all of you who’ve taken the time to write. Know that this small act means something. Each of your sparks, ignited in the blackness of despair, contribute to the fire that is my fight.

Without further ado, I’d like to share this woman’s voice, this seemingly small, yet significant, act of bravery:

April 27, 2019, “Love mail from a sad lez”:

“Just want to say that I stumbled across your Twitter (and SisterOutrider) by complete chance and it’s been like finding water in a desert.

I’ve never felt as shouted down, ignored, and targeted as a lesbian *within* our supposed GLBT community as I have over the past couple of years.

I work for a very Pride-happy company, and I’m actually afraid to follow either of you on Twitter or like most of your posts because I’m terrified someone will brand me… [and] take it back to my Company.”

We’re strongly encouraged to label our preferred pronouns in the display name fields of our email addresses at my job (for ex niceperson@thispridehappycompany.com shows in your inbox as From: Nice Person (she/her) ) something I wasn’t comfortable with due to years of hearing that lesbians aren’t “real women.”

I felt that having to overtly label myself with gender pronouns of she-her put me back in that space though I’m completely fine with anyone who chooses to add their preferred words; I just didn’t want to do it myself — and I’m still very nervous that not having those pronouns there is going to bite me hard soon.

Long story short, even though I’m too chickenshit to interact with either of you much on Twitter, I follow your feeds closely. Please feel free to share this; I’ve made it anonymous enough to feel safe, I think.”

Sad Lez,

The relentless bullying we’ve endured as a community is exhausting. It’s meant to wear us down. To make us so tired, we have no fight left. It’s exactly how we ended up with no voice in the mainstream, and only a handful of lesbians bars remaining in the U.S. That’s why we have to fight back.

When you say, “I’ve never felt as shouted down, ignored, and targeted as a lesbian *within* our supposed GLBT community as I have over the past couple of years,” it breaks my heart… Because it’s something lesbians have been writing to tell me in astounding numbers, and I’m worried it’s causing us all heath problems (emotional and physical). So just know, lesbian leaders have organized underground. We’re all fighting to fix this.

When you describe adding “she/her” to your email as “something I wasn’t comfortable with due to years of hearing that lesbians aren’t ‘real women,’ “ know that lesbians have expressed that sentiment, time and time again. You have every right to express that without fear of backlash. It’s terrible that you have to work in an environment where that’s something you’ve been made to feel “very nervous” about.

Lesbians have a long history of refusing to ‘conform’ to sexist ‘norms,’ so, out in the real world, we’re receiving the brunt of the ‘ask my pronoun’ abuse (from both the right and the left). It’s only served to put a target on our backs, and it cements the idea that there’s a wrong way to be female. So when you say “having to overtly label myself with gender pronouns of she-her put me back in that space,” know that it’s put a great deal of lesbians in a bad place. And let’s face it, in real life it reinforces the sexist idea that ‘butch’ lesbians are “incorrectly female.” If that weren’t the take away, why isn’t anyone asking ‘femmes’ to clarify their pronouns?

When you say, “I’m so tired of being made to feel that I’m a monster,” please know, you’re anything but. People who make you feel like a monster, just for embracing your own truth and honoring your own reality, aren’t your people. A true ally would never ask you to deny who you are. An ally would never ask you to sacrifice your own needs. An ally would never ask you to give up your own happiness or demand that you compromise your own comfort, safety and health. And while we’re on the subject, anyone who thinks lesbians should just shut up and play along while lesbian youth are harmed, is the furthest thing from an ally… Steer clear of that vile brand of evil.

I’m so happy to hear that stumbling across my Twitter has “been like finding water in a desert”… Drink up! I’m so glad you found us. We’re still out here. Please do all you can to help others find us too. Since you’re feeling scared, kick it old school for now: Word of mouth is our friend. Our lack of visibility is especially dangerous for young lesbians right now and it’s causing permanent scars. Lesbians have been excluded (in the name of inclusion) from the few lesbian publications we had remaining, and non-lesbians—with their “Lesbian sex” advice headlines screaming, “Newsflash: We should be using condoms” for “PIV sex”—see no moral dilemma in doling out advice to baby dykes under the guise that they’re lesbians. It’s leading to severe trauma (emails I can’t share).

This feeling you have—that you have to hide—is everything lesbians saw coming from miles away, as our voices and our autonomy were being stripped away. When you say, “I’m actually afraid to follow either of you on Twitter or like most of your posts because I’m terrified someone will brand me…” and “take it back to my Company,” know that this Stockholm-like grip that “LGBTQ” has on lesbians, is exactly what’s led us to the point where emancipation is our only option. The irony of #droptheL is that we’ve already been dropped. While the letter L itself, is being held hostage, it’s strictly for optics at this point. As far as lesbians are concerned, the alliance is so over.

You took a step, you wrote and you gave me permission to publish your words, so when you say, “even though I’m too chickenshit to interact with either of you much on Twitter, I follow your feeds closely,” know you’re braver than you think. I’m sure that second step isn’t far behind. And keep following closely, that’s what we’re here for. The important thing is you found us, and you can low-key help others find us too. We’re even expanding our mentorship program, so The Lesbian Leadership Alliance (LLA), Sister Outrider included, can expand our work with young at-risk lesbians.

Lesbians have gone grassroots. We’re rebuilding. When you’re up to it, we could use the extra hands. And this time, we’re not letting anyone huff and puff and blow our houses down. We’re building steel-gated fortresses.

The Republicans who whine about "thoughtcrimes" think it's okay to fire football players who kneel

This is from a far-right website full of propaganda, it's over a year old, AND it paints gays and lesbians as inherently evil and abusive.

Propaganda much?

R6, what do you mean? You must not be talking about The Velvet Chronicle which is hardly a far-right website.

R7, that’s the new mTRA talking point they’re trotting out, that anyone opposed to medical conversion therapy for gay children is an evangelical christian.

Ok, R6 explain yourself. I took a quick look at The Velvet Chronicle and it's clearly a lesbian website. Why are you lying about it being anti-gay and anti-lesbian? Because it's critical about trans issues?

Don't tell me some post-menopausal women from the 1970s are speaking for ALL lesbians again.

As a heads up, these people are now saying that 'Story Hour with Drag Queens' grooms kids for child abuse: that is what they mean by the reference to child abuse in the text.

R10, the writer and her wife are in their 20s. But why would it it be a problem for older women to speak out about their experiences? Are older women not people? Are their experiences not important? Is the problem that lesbians are speaking out about discrimination or just that women are speaking at all?

R9, they’ve had their 50 follower sock puppet troll accounts all over Twitter since the BBC Newsnight episode aired exposing the Tavistock Gender Identity Clinic as being conversion therapy for gay children. Every single case study showed homophobia in the family as being the driving force for conversion/transition.

R12, who? You mean The Velvet Chronicle? How would that make them anti-gay or anti-lesbian? I'm getting confused here.

R13, no. The trans-extremist troll & his sock puppets trying to slur the lesbians.

The owner of this website (which she just started a year ago) does the whole "we present the truth without bias" Fox News thing, while sitting on Twitter screaming about everyone trying to erase lesbians and replace them with trans. She lists being a HuffPo writer as one of her accomplishments but hasn't written for them in years, and only wrote four articles anyway, one of which was of the "all trans are evil because one murdered a lesbian couple" genre.

Yeah, this has the exact same rightwing angle as all the other anti-trans bullshit online does, like the LGB Alliance, the anti-trans org that just came out as anti-gay marriage after dozens of anti-gay tweets over the last few months.

There isn't a single photo of the Velvet Chronicle lady that makes her look sane.

There, I explained myself, bitch. Now go cry about it again, since that's all you're emotionally and intellectually capable of doing.

“Homophobia in families attending GIDS is mentioned in all the transcripts Newsnight has seen. As well as seeing young people struggling with their sexuality ... some parents appeared to prefer their children to be transgender & straight, rather than gay.”

R15 yes we'll take your word though asshole, who's changed stories multiple time already. First you called the site right wing. That was false. Then you said they were old 1970s lesbians (as if that's a problem?) But you were lying again.

Stop trying to stifle discussion here already. This is a gay issue. Even gay men were able to see through drag story hour, where they didn't do background checks, and read TRANS CHILDREN BOOKS. So you're lying again about it being against gays.

The letter mentions "die in a grease fire" so I assume someone has been visiting DL

R18 yeah it's probably R15 the freak that's obsessed with controlling this particular topic. We see you R15.

Wait a minute. From OP's quoted piece, the L are angry with the G, B, Q (does it stand for queer or questioning these days?), I, and A because the T have asserted themselves? Since when? Ok, maybe I live in a bubble. In my bubble, I've fought for equal rights for [italic]all[/italic] of the letters in that acronym... even those I do not understand or maybe even have the capacity to understand, but nevertheless, have allied for our common good. I see the logic in working with others who have common purpose, to come together and fight for our rights. I also see the logic deployed by the right, and was stunned to see Trump analyzed recently with the accurate summary comparing him to Hitler in this respect: divide and conquer. I say "stunned" because it took guts for [italic]that[/italic] anonymous person to make the connection, particularly given the penchant for right to immediately quote Godwin's law, and particularly when the comparison between them and Hitler strikes a note of honestly.

So why is Julia Robertson doing the right's dirty work? Why is she driving a wedge between the L and the G? For that matter, why does she quote the acronym as "GLBT" rather than the more commonly used "LGBT"? Maybe, just maybe, the usage of "LGBT" came into more common or popular use because the "G" were trying to elevate the "L" from the outset. It's not like "LGBT" is in alphabetical order, or by rank according to the size of the various segments. Maybe it's that "gay"as a term for homosexuals is predated by the use of the word "lesbian", but I could be (and probably am) wrong about that.

Nevertheless, what I'd like to say to her is this: "Sister, I hear you. I respect what you say, whether I agree or not, and I respect your right to say it. But it's time for the left (and I proudly label myself as part of 'the left') to take a long, hard look at the right and understand why they hold the positions of power and authority in this country and this world. To wit, Donald Trump is the president despite the fact that most Republicans neither like nor respect him. But they saw that in order to attain and retain the power, they had to hold their noses and vote for him. Now, we can argue about the wisdom of putting a man like Trump in the position of most powerful man on Earth, but that's another argument suited for another day; the important nugget to take from this observation is that change is only attainable through ascending to power, and like the Republicans have done with Trump, using that power, once attained, to reshape the government. Like my father told my brother and me when we fought over which rides to stand in line for at Disneyland, we can argue about the specifics when we get there, but if all we do is argue before leaving, we won't be going at all."

R20, you’re either putting one on or have been really checked out for the last 20 years. Do catch up:

R19 is insane. You think the writer of the letter is the pro-trans troll trying to defame both the letter writer and the lesbians who run the lesbian website it was posted on? You’re a lunatic.

It's not from a far-right site moron at r6, it's a lesbian site and it's fighting back at those who are trying to get rid of lesbians and gay men.

But, way to go to prove the letter writer's point that it's almost impossible for gays and lesbians to raise these issues and discuss the trans onslaught without being stigmatised in the so-called "LGBTQ community".

R21: well, I am old. But oh my pretend-man-in-sky, they really tell lesbians that they have to consider having sex with a biological male in order to really be gay? Why does William Brighty Rands' [italic]Topsy-Turvy World[/italic] ring in my head?

R23, the pro-trans wackjob is a Russian troll. Transplanet is one of their ops. Bannon spoke on record about wanting to exploit the conflict between intersectional feminism and white male losers. R/transmaxxing is a whole sub-reddit for misogynist incels to learn how to become “transbians” so they can attempt to finally get laid and get in on some of that imaginary ‘female privilege’.

R24, yes, and the LGBT orgs both condone and encourage it. Anyone who stands up for lesbians, or women, more broadly, is now branded as anti-trans bigot. The truth, however, is that the entire trans-ideology is foundationally homophobic, sexist and, taken to its logical end, will erode all of the sex based rights women and gay people have fought and died to attain. The T must be broken off from the GLB.

Only morons think that lesbians standing up for themselves is “right-wing”.

The Heritage Foundation and other conservative orgs fund and recruit people on the left using wedge issues that they see eye-to-eye on. For instance, if they want to distract feminists from fighting against the loss of women’s reproductive rights (a big one in the U.S. right now), replace the villainous Republican men in suits who want to strip women of their autonomy with the more frightening and visceral image of bearded trannies invading women’s spaces and “stealing” away their identity (i.e. erasing biological sex.) In other words, superimposing a liberal type of “predation” against women over the conservative one.

Also, abortion rights seem less of a concern for gay women, so I can understand why those who’ve been pressured to accept biological men among their ranks and in their bedrooms (conversion tberapy!) feel no other option than to turn to conservative groups since liberal ones have failed them.

This strategy is honestly brilliant, because not only does it frame transgender people as the true villains, it turns Republican lawmakers into chivalrous defenders of women’s rights. If you told me five years ago that trans people would be the number one concern of Martina Navratilova and J.K. Rowling, I would have laughed my ass off. Not that their concerns aren’t valid, just hyperbolic compared to other problems facing women.

R6, so does your troll farm work just like a call center? Like now you try to promote homophobic conversion therapy, now you bullshit about QAnon, now you bury bad news about Dotard, make laughably false anti-science based claims about CV19, etc. Or do you get assigned a specific Social Division issue that you vomit all over the web?

I'd be interested to know what, in your opinion, other problems women are facing, r28.

R30 - Threats to women besides trans people? I can think of a few. Heartbeat laws preventing abortion after 6 weeks of pregnancy; anti-abortion laws without rape exceptions; intimidation of rape victims with traumatic interrogation techniques and stiff penalties for “false” rape allegations; loss of insurance coverage for reproductive health services (including birth control); intimate partner violence; short prison terms for rapists; male correctional officers in female prisons; male team coaches and physicians in girl’s and women’s sports; forgotten backlogs of rape test kits; etc, etc.

I guess once they successfully eliminate trans identity, THEN they can move on to these lesser concerns

R28, is full of shit.

I should also mention: if there’s an epidemic of girls transitioning to be men due to sexual abuse trauma and patriarchal attitudes, we’re putting the cart before the horse by not addressing the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

R11, you're going to need a much bigger crowbar.

No, the problem isn't that 'women are speaking', you loon. It's that a particular subset of highly conservative, often homophobic (as explained by other posts on this thread) and older women highly influenced by 1970s radical feminism have taken it upon themselves to speak for ALL lesbians and ALL women, dismissing those from a different generation who have a different perspective.

Transing a 5 Year Old Tomboy

When have Trans been working to help gay people? Any examples of them helping out anyone else in the Alphabet aside from themselves?

And, no, I don't mean Marsha beheading all of the police back at Stonewall in 1969.

They don’t really seem interested in gay men.

And then the letter itself is mostly about bemoaning other gay rights orgs:

[quote]Are media outlets continuing to ignore women led organisations in favour of those led by men?

But r31, all the things you mention pertain only to biological women, yet here you are supporting people who want to ban all talk of biological women.

If women actually tried to organise around abortion issues, violence against women, rape, reproductive health, we would be called terfs for picking issues that "exclude" transwomen. It's a bit like saying "people who menstruate are called women" - and menstruation is a women's issue, women want to talk about it. Now do you see how damaging banning the ability to talk about the issues that are important to biological women is? I doubt you'll say yes, though.

"male correctional officers in female prisons" - yet a male rapist in a female prison is fine if he "identifies" as a woman, right?

What an ageist, misogynist r34 is. He is obsessed with the phantasm of 1970s "conservative" feminists. Just fuck off, some of us weren't even born in the 1970s. If anyone is conservative and homophobic, it's you and the trans ideology you support.

[quote] all the things you mention pertain only to biological women, yet here you are supporting people who want to ban all talk of biological women.

I don’t support people who want to “ban all talk of biological women” and never said that. Your mental gymnastics are astounding.

[quote]"male correctional officers in female prisons" - yet a male rapist in a female prison is fine if he "identifies" as a woman, right?]

Did I say either was OK? No. NEITHER is OK, but the former paved the way for the latter. Men have been invading women’s spaces since forever, but it wasn’t until gender-nonconforming men started doing it that YOU took notice.

[quote]If women actually tried to organise around abortion issues, violence against women, rape, reproductive health, we would be called terfs for picking issues that "exclude" transwomen.

So your excuse for focusing on trans issues instead of also fighting against anti-choice laws and violence against women, is that if you do so, you’d be called a TERF?

Sure, R39

There's a deep, DEEP, strain of sexism in the radical left, and has been for a long time.

People who think they're progressive and for the rights of all oppressed or offended people, firmly believe that women need to shut up and put the needs of others above their own, and will viciously put any woman who tries to do otherwise in her place. They're no different than their grandfathers who said "The position of women in the Civil Rights movement is prone", or their great-great grandfathers who told their wives to shut up about votes for women and make sandwiches for his fellow labor organizers.

Will lesbian women and gay men even be allowed in next June's "Trans Women of Color Pride Parade" next year?

We better start gender conforming, or they won't let us march!

[quote]I should also mention: if there’s an epidemic of girls transitioning to be men due to sexual abuse trauma and patriarchal attitudes, we’re putting the cart before the horse by not addressing the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

But how are we going to address those issues r33 if we're not allowed to talk in terms of biological women and the unique experience of biological girls and women? Those of us who are trying to stand up to the trans ideology know very well that it's predicated on misogyny and homophobia, but people like you won't allow us to talk about it. Just a glance at the responses of the trannies and their supporters to Rowling's comments shows just how much misogyny there is out there.

I think the one who is out of touch with what's actually going on out there is you. You seem very naive about what trans demands actually are.

F&F OP, who has been starting endless threads like this. Still bitter they have no Michfest this year.

What attracts these women to Datalounge? Normally this type of separatist 'political lesbian' likes to disassociate themselves from organisations and groups containing men. You might think they would also be triggered by the discussions of pornography, which they have been conditioned to view as unequivocally evil.

“Shut up and take it!”

And yes, “cancel culture” is fucking cancer, and I can’t believe people don’t see where this is headed.

All I can say is, wait until they come for YOU and YOUR sacred cow. I’m a liberal, and I feel a lot more threatened by the left than the right. I espouse about 75% of the progressives’ ideology, but not balls-to-the-wall on some of it, and disagree with 10%. And I’m the ENEMY because I’m not all in with shit like cash reparations and people losing their livelihoods because they don’t post the right slogans on their SM.

I’m glad I’m old and hope the end result will be instituted after I’m dead.

The left is eating itself while republicans come together. This bullshit will keep Cheeto in office another 4 years.

It’s not ok to place the interests of one minority group over another’s. It’s not necessary to apologize to the whole world over past events and injustices you had no participation in.

The world doesn’t owe you a damn thing and the coddling needs to stop. All we can do is learn from the past to avoid making the same mistakes.

I am sick and tired of spineless people latching on to a cause that they do not understand and or do so to fit in with the crowd. It’s like high school all over again except on a global level.

r49, the left has been infiltrated by bad actors on the Kremlin payroll. They even use the same fucking bot farms to promote gay conversion therapy as they do to promote QAnon. Same fucking people.

[quote]But how are we going to address those issues [R33] if we're not allowed to talk in terms of biological women and the unique experience of biological girls and women?

R44 How much influence does that nutty fringe have that they stop you from addressing women’s problems that, COINCIDENTALLY, conservatives ignore or even promote, such as rape culture (unless it’s blamed on the trans) and loss of reproductive rights (“but abortions kills more little girls than men do!”).

We recently had a major supreme court ruling in the U.S. - written by a conservative justice but opposed by many Republicans - that extends sex-based protections to gay and transgender people. Guess what? It’s based on BIOLOGICAL sex, not imaginary sex. In other words, both gay and transgender people cannot be discriminated against based on not conforming to their BIOLOGICAL sex rather than “being” a different gender than they were “assigned to at birth.”

So far, there have been no riots in the streets over not affirming the imaginary chromosomes of transgender people per this court ruling, and I question how many of the them even care (beside the handful of male weirdos who want to wear tampons).

So progress is being made. You must be thrilled about this landmark decision!

There have been no "riots in the streets," R51, because activists like Chase Strangio and Laverne Cox are simply lying about it, and saying in interviews that the decision WAS based on "gender identity" when, clearly, it was not.

And yes, many gender-critical people such as myself ARE thrilled about this landmark decision. We've been telling you for years that we believe that transgender people are entitled to the same employment rights as everyone else in America. If you didn't listen to us, or believe us, that's not our fault.

Laverne Cox defended a child rapist just because the rapist wears a dress. Laverne Cox blamed black women for straight guys not wanting to fuck him. Laverne Cox is a toxic mess.

I agree that Laverne Cox is one of the nutters... believes that biological sex is “on a spectrum” which is hilarious because that’s basically claiming some trans people are more valid than others based on how much they’ve medically transitioned. That said, I believe Cox actually means that biology is whatever you DECIDE it is - which is even more stupid than claiming a spectrum of sex based on surgeries and hormone therapy! But this is what happens when a 3rd-rate celebritard is chosen to be a spokesperson for a political movement.

LGBTQIA

I don't even want to know.

I can't even pronoun-ce it.

R51, you obviously have no clue whatsoever what is really going on with the trans and the LGBTQ+++.

The SCOTUS ruling has nothing to do with what's happening on the ground and among activists and in the lives especially of young people who are just coming out. Why do you think there was such a crazed reaction to the very anodyne and self-evident things JK Rowling said?

And we're not all American so the SCOTUS ruling means jackshit to most of us, some of us (e.g. myself) are from countries where such workplace discrimination was banned years ago and without the need to redfine an old law from 50 years ago about sex (unfortunately, potentially conflating sex and gender). But the influence of the gender ideology coming directly from the US is far more influential and pernicious.

Of course that gay-hater Linda Bellos came to the US to campaign and protest against it!

Linda Bellos is involved with Dykefront (LGBAlliance). I’m

I can honestly say that just about every other lesbian I have ever met is mildly psychotic. Sad, but true.

R57 Like I said, acknowledge there’s a radical movement to redefine sex, claiming “trans women are women” (in other words, give the MTF a cookie). I agree this attitude has gone mainstream among millennials, but Gen-X’rs and boomers like Navratilova and Rowlings openly critique it.

My question to you is: what percentage of people do you think will start identifying as non-binary or the opposite sex if we open the floodgates and accept trans ideology? The last I heard, it’s under 1% right now. Even if that percentage triples, 97% of people will still identify as their biological sex.

So how will this change sports, where biological males like Caster Semenya have already won Olympic medals in the women’s division (with feminists’ - including Navratilova’s - full support)? How will MTF prisoners (many of them gay men) in female prisons make much difference when male correctional officers already routinely coerce female prisoners into sex or force themselves on them?

The powers that be who despise gender-nonconformity because it undercuts the concept of female inferiority are more than happy to see you aim with laser sight on trans as the root of all evil. It frees them up from having to oppose you.

"How will MTF prisoners (many of them gay men) in female prisons make much difference when male correctional officers already routinely coerce female prisoners into sex or force themselves on them?"

1. Over 80% of MTFs are heterosexual males, so don't even... 2. Can you hear how sick you sound? "What's a few more rapes? You might as well just accept it."

"The powers that be who despise gender-nonconformity because it undercuts the concept of female inferiority are more than happy to see you aim with laser sight on trans as the root of all evil."

Misogynists are misogynists. Homophobes are homophobes. I'm gonna call that shit out, whether it's on the Right or Left. Stay mad about it.

"It frees them up from having to oppose you."

It's really quite hilarious that you believe that Biff and Skippy are poring over radical feminist manifestos, rubbing their hands together, and cackling, "We've got them now!" Heterosexual men do not oppress women and gay men because of feminism. Ever.

[quote]It's really quite hilarious that you believe that Biff and Skippy are poring over radical feminist manifestos, rubbing their hands together, and cackling, "We've got them now!"

In the U.S., they’re known as The Heritage Foundation.

And you believe, R63, that the men of the Heritage Foundation oppress women because of feminism? You believe that they ponder these issues and say to themselves, "You know, I wasn't going to be anti-abortion, but then I heard Claire Heuchan give a speech about women's spaces, and, well..."

They don't give a flying fuck what Claire or any feminist says or does.

Actually, people like the Heritage Foundation oppress gay men and women because they despise everything feminine and consider it inferior and subject to everything masculine, because that maintains a social order in which every man gets to feel superior to someone, no matter how inferior he really is. And yes, they include total tops in that, because they know diddly-squat about the realities of gay life.

They don't oppress anyone because of Feminism, feminism is a reaction to their oppression.

"Actually, people like the Heritage Foundation oppress gay men and women because they despise everything feminine"

There are a lot of masculine women, and a lot of masculine gay men, and guess what? Still oppressed.

Like I said, R66, these people don't have a great grasp of what's actually masculine or feminine.

They lump all gay men and all women into the inferior feminine/inferior category, regardless of how butch they actually are, and all straight men into the masculine/superior category, regardless of how wimpy or genuinely inferior they are. This has a great appeal to straight men who are either treated as inferior in the sort of hierarchical social structure these assholes like, or who are genuinely inferior by any standard.

[quote]How much influence does that nutty fringe have that they stop you from addressing women’s problems

Are you fucking serious? People have lost their jobs just for stating biological facts. Have you not even seen all the online harassment and calls to rape and murder "TERFS"?

R67: You keep replacing femaleness and homosexuality with "femininity." Femininity doesn't have fuck-all to do with why girls' genitals are mutilated or why gay men couldn't get married to each other until a few years ago. They hate girls for having female bodies, and they hate gay men for loving male bodies. Please stop trivializing it as being about tutus and sparkles and My Little Pony. It's not.

R42 That's where all of this Karen business is coming from. People who think it's white women's place to be self-effacing and subservient.

R68 There is no excuse for threats of violence. But do you claim that most trans people do that, or just a small minority?

As far as losing one’s job over schooling a transgender co-worker on their biology, it depends on the context. A medical professional should NOT be fired for suggesting an MTF get a prostate exam, but an employee who refuses to use their co-worker’s preferred pronouns, or publicly mocks their trans identity is just being an asshole. That would be workplace harassment. Same goes for telling a Christian client who wishes you “Merry Christmas” that there is no scientific proof of God, or pointing out to a gay co-worker who’s adopting a child that statistically children are better off being raised by both a mother AND a father. All three scenarios have science to back them up, but that doesn’t mean it’s OK to confront your clients or co-workers with those facts.

R71 I've worked with a couple of non-binaries, I haven't ever used a co-worker's preferred pronouns, and it's been fine. They don't know unless someone tells them, as long as you aren't rude or harrass them people aren't bothered. I'd be frightened if I lived in a blue state.

R71, are you telling me that adults can't handle that kind of interaction with other adults? It is not harassment. It may be obnoxious or rude but it is not harassment. Seriously people are such wimps. Try being a woman and having to deal with REAL harassment.

R71 people are being doxxed and harassed for being an asshole. They are receiving death threats and losing their jobs for saying things like 'trans women are biologically male' or 'I object to being called a cis woman - I am a woman' or 'I'm a lesbian and I'm not attracted to penis.'

^^^^ NOT for being an asshole, obviously.

r75 the trans rights movement is for incels. It's a Men's Rights movement in lipstick.

R73 - I stand corrected. Workplace harassment is typically defined as a REPEATED behavior that creates a hostile work environment, while saying something stupid once in a while gets a pass.

That said, I think it’s within the rights of an employer to fire a worker who is rude and obnoxious to co-workers and clients, unless it’s part of their job description. I don’t see why you or anyone else would have a problem with that.

[quote] 1. Over 80% of MTFs are heterosexual males, so don't even.

Hmm.

I thought they were all gay boys?

I’d ask for a source, but I’m not a dyke and know you pull them from your cunt.

r77, I have a huge problem with the first amendment violation compelling both though and speech that is required by using female pronouns for someone who is obviously male (and they're all obvious). Making the truth illegal is a horrible road to start going down.

Should we just call people by what pronouns we prefer?

Because many butch lesbians look like men.

Oh eat shit Boris at r80. R68 and all her other posts made a piece of used toilet paper out of you.

But I have a right to call people by whatever pronouns I see fit!

Anything less is Nazism.

Ok, sir, at R80 (by the way you smell fishy).

Anyone who doesn't care about the erosion of sex-based rights, has no place on a gay board. Is that you, George Takei?

[quote]die in a grease fire

Uh oh was it a DL poster that has her scared?

Sex-based rights is a radical feminist term. Not a gay men’s term.

Sounds like soon to be fired, misogynist sports cheat 'Rachel McKennon' aka Veronica Ivy has joined us. Read his horrific performance review.

You can’t imagine a gay man would dare to disagree with you?

Women are born, not worn. We are a biological sex and sex matters. If a trans person needs to see a doctor, the doctor needs to know what SEX they are, not what gender.

Gender is nothing and should be abolished. Wear what you want but your sex will always be the one you were born with. Its impossible to change your sex.

Women's rights are based on our sex, so yes, we tend to get upset when we see a tiny group of men demand they be abolished in order to allow them access to women's spaces.

Drag Queen story time sounded like a great idea in theory. But seeing an aging man in a dress teaching young children about twerking by demonstrating it in front of them isn't really a good thing. Its not a surprise that people see it as child grooming. Especially when you see poor kids like Desmond is Amazing dancing in clubs whilst men throw money at him.

I started out as a trans ally. I thought that trans meant transsexual people who went through years of therapy and brutal surgeries. I have much compassion for them. But then I discovered that transgender means any man who announces he's a woman. And then I saw the abuse handed out by the trans cult to any woman who dared to ask questions. Including transsexual women who the cult refers to as transcum.

I saw the way language about women changed. We became uterus havers and menstruators. I saw the ridiculous demands being made, the misogyny and the hatred of women. I saw women being attacked at public meetings.

I saw same sex attraction being called transphobia. Something bigots with a genital fetish did. I saw transwomen who decided they were lesbians, tell young women that the 'girl dick' was a different 'mouth feel'. And the promoting of the cotton ceiling.

I saw small children caught up in the whole 'trans' thing. Children who apparently knew they were in the wrong body at the age of three. I saw children being put on puberty blockers will no long term scientific study to see what that would do to them. This is basically medical experimentation on children. I saw surgeons recommend that young women have their healthy breasts cut off because they could always get another pair later. (No they can't) And I saw just how much money there was to be made by the pharmaceutical companies and surgeons in this field. A child put on puberty blockers could well be on medication for life. What more could a drug company want?

And when people raise questions? They're told they are bigots, transphobes and Nazi's. There is no discussion of women's concerns, it isn't allowed. There's certainly no discussion of the concerns of lesbians because they're bigots, transphobes and Nazi's too.

Ok, I'm done. Off to have a nice cup of tea.

Brava, r88!

[quote]Ok, I'm done. Off to have a nice cup of tea.

Then going to vote SNP, have a scone, and whine about gay men having surrogates.

Then you'll be back with another six thousand word essay when it would so much quicker if you just wrote: 'I hate men'.

Radical feminism has a lot of flaws and drawbacks, it isn't the answer to life's problems. It especially isn't the foundation of gay identity or gay rights.

You need to be making arguments based on shared values, know your audience. If people don't believe in your mythology or your value system, why do they care about the opinions you hold based ln those things?

R90 I don't hate men at all. I've been married to one for over 30 years. I have many friends who are men.

I'm delighted that gay men can have surrogates. My only issue with surrogacy is women being forced into it because of poverty. But I've never seen a case like that.

I do think it's hypocritical for some gay men to announce that trans women are women when they've employed a surrogate. I can guarantee that none of them interviewed transwomen for the job. They know exactly what a woman is when they want a baby.

r91, science is not radical feminism. The females of nearly every species produce large gametes. That's just a fact. You don't have to 'believe' in anything other than reality. Ideology has no place usurping biology.

r92, look at the surrogacy farms in India.

R92, I think you need to understand that this is a gay men's board. A website for homosexuals. This is our place.

If we take issue with trans, it will be our own issues and we will do it for our own survival.

Please leave.

R94 Thank you, I'll look into that.

R95 Sad little man who's frightened of women? The title of this thread is 'Anonymous Letter from a Terrified Lesbian'. So why are you reading it and why haven't you told all the other women in this thread to leave?

You're a misogynist, you should seek help for that.

Wow, R96/R92 -- and the second a gay men asserts his right to his space you immediately call him a misogynist.

You don't care about gay men.

Don't you fa... I mean, boys know that I'm standing up for your sex based rights?

Now, shut up. Datalounge is for straight women as much as it is for you disgusting gay men.

Say otherwise and you're misogynist.

R96 I'm not usually a fan of the frau accusations that get thrown around here, but he's completely within his rights to tell you to leave.

This is a gay board for gay people to discuss gay issues. Lesbians are allowed, straight women frequently lurk and slip into the conversations when they aren't too intrusive- but this is not a place for straight people to be directing the conversation.

You are being intrusive, and I think not realizing how you're talking over gay men on their own board when they tell you they don't believe in your ideology.

You are not a bad person, I believe that you support gay people and gay rights, but I do think it's time for you to exit this conversation.

r99, the conflation of sex (biologic fact) and 'gender identity' (ideological belief) in law will eradicate all gay rights. And the misogynist troll was telling a lesbian, not r96, to fuck off.

Fine, I tried. Let's circle the drain of misogyny accusations.

[quote][R99], the conflation of sex (biologic fact) and 'gender identity' (ideological belief) in law will eradicate all gay rights.

It's for us to decide what we find homophobic. Not you.

[quote]And the misogynist troll was telling a lesbian, not [R96], to fuck off.

No, I was telling R92 to leave when she revealed she was a straight woman. And I told her it was because this website is for homosexuals. Lesbians have a claim to be here. Straight women do not.

[quote]And the misogynist troll was telling a lesbian, not [[R96]], to fuck off.

And.... here's why you have to leave: the second a gay men tells you this website is not for straight women you immediately accuse him of being 'misogynistic'.

Thanks, R99.

r101, well you've certainly convinced no one that misogyny is not involved in erasing lesbians, women and even the word 'woman' from the public discourse.

R101 I'm not trying to. I'm trying to tell a straight radical feminist, or possibly a couple, that this is not a intellectual debate forum. The way to talk to gay men about lesbian issues is not to hurl accusations when they don't automatically agree with the official lesbian opinion.

Let the lesbians talk, let the gay men talk. Gay community relies on shared experiences, we are not a political group or an ideology.

[quote] [R101], well you've certainly convinced no one that misogyny is not involved in erasing lesbians, women and even the word 'woman' from the public discourse.

You posting history reveals that you are obsessed with this issue.

There are other forums on the internet devoted just to that. Not Datalounge.

Please leave.

r106, who the fuck are you to tell people who have been here for 20 years what this forum is and isn't? You shitstain.

R108 Well pardon me, you housebound cunt! Much better that you shit reddit jargon in all directions and foam at the mouth when questioned or criticized. Who are you helping?

I'd like to take a cruise on that SADLEZ canal

Is Trans Woman of Color Pride Month over yet?

I'm exhausted from erasing all the lesbian women and gay men from "Pride"!

r111, Black Trans Lives Matter

I worry. Most of the people who say they feel erased by Pride, actually want to erase Pride.

TERFery is going in an increasingly homophobic direction now... like when they were complaining about having to see a rainbow lanyard on a nurse once.

R113 Link or I'm not interested.

This imaginary war on gay men you claim lesbians are fighting makes no sense.

You'd be better off campaigning to have transpeople who are homosexual included in the LGB, and kick the weird fetishist straight people out. You'd had a lot of moderate support with that one.

It came from that horse-faced homophobe, Cuntaline Farrow.

And was then retweeted by lots of TERF Twitter -- all talking about how it was 'literal violence against women'.

[quote]This imaginary war on gay men you claim lesbians are fighting makes no sense.

Not all lesbians are fighting against gay men. But most lesbians tend to identify more with feminism not gayness. This has lead to a lot of them getting involved with some people who are pretty open about hating gay men but hide it under the guise of feminism. Like that lesbian who was appearing on Tucker Carlson and working with the Heritage Foundation and testifying against the Equality Act.

If you can't see why some of us are really concerned by things like that... well

[quote]You'd be better off campaigning to have transpeople who are homosexual included in the LGB, and kick the weird fetishist straight people out. You'd had a lot of moderate support with that one.

I support separation actually. But I find LGB to be an even more artificial construct than LGBT. As I mentioned, lesbians are more likely to side with straight women over gay men. I'd rather have a plain G Gay Rights movement for gay men only, but I know that eventually a lot of the TERFs will come for that once they're finished with T.

[quote]1. Over 80% of MTFs are heterosexual males, so don't even.

[quote]I thought they were all gay boys?

LGBT statistics are dicey, because they all depend on how one identifies at a given time. If men who formerly ID’d as straight transvestites now classify themselves as “trans lesbians” that would increase the population of gynephilic MTFs. The few I’ve met formerly ID’d as gay men, but they are more likely to live it full-time, perhaps.

The same issue came up on an infamous study on intimate partner violence back in 2014 which showed lesbian couples had much higher rates of domestic abuse than gay male and heterosexual couples, which I found questionable, but it was based on women who IDENTIFIED as gay at the time, which may have included heterosexual women with psychological problems or mental illness.

This was years before trans self-ID, so if you are wondering: biological men were NOT included in the lesbian statistic, lol.

Yes, the statistics are dicey, but the issue is really how I noticed most rad fems on their own board speak as though its all straight men -- then when they come here claim its all gay boys.

[quote]which showed lesbian couples had much higher rates of domestic abuse than gay male and heterosexual couples

There have been many a funny DL thread on that actually. Apocryphal maybe. But search for Lesbian Drama. Lots of DL-ers have stories.

Tuesday 16th June - Transwashing Gay & Lesbian History

Thanks to Fred Sargeant, a veteran of the gay rights movement, for calling out this distortion of gay and lesbian history.

The Liberal Democrats are peddling lies about the Stonewall riot, a pivotal event in the history of the gay and lesbian liberation movement. A piece written by Coralie Ayala which appears on the Lib-Dem website, actually states that, "Marsha P. Johnson, a black trans woman, threw the first brick".

This is an urban myth that has become very popular with trans rights activists but it has been disproved beyond any doubt time and again. Luckily for Ayala and the Liberal Democrats, Fred Sargeant was actually present at the start of the Stonewall riot and was able to point out the article's various untruths.

Firstly, Marsha (real name Malcolm) was not a transwoman. He was a gay male drag queen and that is how he described himself. Secondly, he was not even present at the start of the Stonewall riot.

But why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

Here's Graham's recent interview with Fred.

And the problem with the LGBAlliance is that they peddle the myth it was a lesbian.

It was a drag queen (which partly explains why he was mistaken for a trans woman).

R115 Her website says that she is a conservative Catholic, nowhere does she mention radical feminism. She does call herself a feminist, which anyone can do. Caitlyn Jenner is a "feminist."

Yes, R121. She was up until a few years a single-issue anti-gay campaigner. Then after gay marriage she began to switch to anti-trans and has been embraced wholeheartedly by rad fems.

Someone on this site even called her a brave hero!

R116 You actually have a good point with that. Radical feminism has repeatedly burned out over the decades because of their tendency to witch hunt outsiders and to purity spiral. I think, personally, it's a fundamental issue with Marxist thought. Liberation movements based in Marxist thought seem to inevitably harm the very group they represent as viciously as the oppressor they're fighting. Look at BLM has done to black communities in the last month.

Radfems in general, for instance, have a marked disgust and aggression toward bisexual women that goes mostly unchecked. It can at times, from lesbian women, morph into a sexual rage and leads to bisexual women being harrassed and pushed out of feminist communities.

R118 The question is why did gay men have the lowest rates of IPV - lower than straight, bisexual AND lesbian couples. My guess is that misogyny is not a factor between male partners, while female partners experience it from men, while in same-sex partnerships they project INTERNALIZED misogyny onto each other. Bisexuals had the highest rates of IPV, BTW.

R121 If she's on their side, good for her. I'm really not interested.

[quote]Radfems in general, for instance, have a marked disgust and aggression toward bisexual women that goes mostly unchecked. It can at times, from lesbian women, morph into a sexual rage and leads to bisexual women being harrassed and pushed out of feminist communities.

Yes, this why I think LGB will ultimately prove more unstable than LGBT. I remember seeing a video of Julie Bindel and she was actually going through all her issues with, not just T, but all the non-L letters.

R124 It's bisexual women, specifically.

We have a monthly lesbian spousal murder thread that pops up on DL, like clockwork. The lesbian community has lots of dirty laundry. They still deserve to be kept safe and protected, and to be able to seek each other out without having to navigate predatory straight men.

Link, R126?

[quote]The question is why did gay men have the lowest rates of IPV - lower than straight, bisexual AND lesbian couples. My guess is that misogyny is not a factor between male partners, while female partners experience it from men, while in same-sex partnerships they project INTERNALIZED misogyny onto each other. Bisexuals had the highest rates of IPV, BTW.

Lower testosterone probably.

Some people describe the gay communities views towards effeminate gay men as a form of misogyny.

I THINK this is it.

One issue is that higher testosterone does lead to increased aggression. But a lot of lesbians don't want to discuss that because it would mean having to look at the results of lesbians having higher levels than straight women and the consequences of that.

This is what's happening to young lesbians because of T ideology -

What did Bindel say in that video at R130 that was critical of the G in LGBT?

She was more critical of the Q, to be fair. (And she mentioned both Queer and Questioning, which is good since both have been described as what the Q in LGBTQ actually stands for.)

Nothing in that video, but read search her Twitter feed for a quick rundown. This is one of her worst pieces:

Another issue is that Lesbians refuse to address how almost of the T ideology was actually created by and upheld by women.

Polls shows women have more favorable views towards trans than men.

But because of the narrow 'man-bad-womyn-good' of radical feminism, they can't.

R131 There’s little question hormones play a role in sexual orientation. Blanchard discovered it in his fraternal birth-order studies of gay men, while studies of the correlation of finger length (influenced by hormones) and sexuality have been shown.

Blanchard also has observed how “homosexual transexuals” have more feminine physical characteristics than their masculine, gynephilic counterparts. So yeah - testosterone plays a part, which is why when you pit lesbians against trans lesbians, you should run for cover.

I find the whole 'gender is a social construct' homophobic.

I'm an eff*minate gay man. I didn't choose that.

I worry about that gaining currency.

Oh are we having to debate the existence of homosexuality again? Because trans-identified people don't think it exists?

[quote]Oh are we having to debate the existence of homosexuality again? Because trans-identified people don't think it exists?

No, your post is an obvious non sequitur to bait people in saying 'trans bad'.

R135 the birth of the transgender movement is in the lesbian community creating space for extremely butch women who felt that they weren't, specifically, women. Fair enough.

It got hijacked by straight men who saw the political potential of it. I don't see any acknowledgment of that from radfems. It was trope in the 00s that a transgender child who made the news had lesbian moms. Feels like a century ago.

[quote][R135] the birth of the transgender movement is in the lesbian community creating space for extremely butch women who felt that they weren't, specifically, women. Fair enough.

No, I'm talking about how it was created by left-wing women with social studies degrees. Like Judith Butler.

And, it's revealing how you suddenly think it's 'fair enough' to 'deny biology' when your team (women) are doing it.

Judith Butler is a lesbian. I am not aware of transsexuals of the 70s and 80s pretending that biological sex wasn't real or that they were genuinely the sex they passed themselves off as. Octavia St. Laurent didn't want to be no fucking woman:

Can anyone explain “he/him” lesbians with XX chromosomes who identify as their biological sex but use male pronouns? They confuse me more than the non-binaries.

You don't get it, R142.

The ideology of today of today's trans movement wasn't created by coal miners or steelworkers. It was created by women in social stuides departments and they took it into the world.

r143, just trying to not be ostracised by the Identiferian cult.

R144 Upperclass academics, I get it. Foucault, Butler, yadda yadda. I'm not going to pretend that lesbians are malicious or out to get the rest of the rainbow.

All this over a staff e-mail account THAT GIVES HER THE OPTION to add her pronouns in her profile?

NICE TRY, BORIS.

Gays, lesbians and trannies still stand united against the forces of Putin and Trump and we will defeat you this year.

R140 - Wow - interesting history there. I remember how gay men who lived in drag did not demand to be be considered women, I think they did not want to surrender their male privilege, but that when the tables turned and women starting gaining more and more privileges (even more than men in some areas of society), the tables turned and trans identity became a thing.

^^ Oh dear - please excuse the multiple typos there.

[quote] Radical feminism has repeatedly burned out over the decades because of their tendency to witch hunt outsiders and to purity spiral.

This reminds me of an uber-butch lesbian many suspected of being a former transman, who at one time was a fairly popular blogger in the gender critical community, but went off the rails and started accusing her fellow rad fems of being “fake lesbians” to score oppression points. Lost interest in the trans issue and started attacking “straightbians” (I believe she called them.)

R150 Who was that? There are quite a few blogs by detransitioned transmen, I'm surprised someone would hide it. It would give them credibility.

R151 I don’t remember, she went by an odd user name I can’t remember, and her blog was linked on a “check out this dumpster fire” site a while back. I do remember that she hilariously bashed new-age hippies and gender studies academics, while not-so-hilariously mocking sex abuse victims who identify as lesbian. That last part was too appalling for me to follow her, but she was interestingly strange.

[quote] I'm not going to pretend that lesbians are malicious or out to get the rest of the rainbow.

A lot of lesbians themselves say they don’t like the rest of the rainbow.

This is really a lesbian issue they’re trying to transpose onto gay men.

The lesbian separatist movement really took off in the 80s during the AIDS epidemic when they were emboldened enough to start adding “AND lesbian” to every gay organization’s name, with little resistance from gay men dealing with the AIDs crises, whom they opportunistically supported and nursed in order to push the “L” to the front of the acronym. Radical lesbians also used guilt stemming from gay men’s obligation to “pay them back”, and wrested power away from those who, in the 60s and 70s, risked their lives for gay rights while most of these women back then stood on the sidelines.

Before that, the term “gay” was inclusive of men, women, bisexuals (part gay!), and gender-nonconforming people who loved the same biological sex. Heterosexual transvestites who now label themselves “transgender” and fetishists into BDSM etc. who now label themselves “queer” simply lived in the shadows and enjoyed their straight privilege.

Now the same thing is happening to the once all-inclusive rainbow flag; it’s being invaded by excluding symbols of pastel pink, baby blue and distinct human skin shades that exclude Asian and caucasian the same way L excludes men, while “G” - like the rainbow - still applies to ALL who love the same sex.

Have you noticed that whenever there's a thread about the pernicious effects of the T ideology there is always this one poster who tries to derail the whole thread with some lunacy about lesbians and radical feminists (he should really just come out and say TERF, you know he wants to)?

He does this as some kind of attempt to distract from the bullshit that the trans are trying to pull, but basically exposes his misogyny and homophobia in the process, and so in the end the only thing he manages to do is make it even clearer that the LGB need to have nothing to do with the T, and we need to fightback against the T ideology that wants to erase women and convert gay youth.

[quote]The “LGBTQ” has become an abusive parent with a wicked backhand. It’s a brutal force—a well-funded super power...

That’s from the OP R155. Guess who initiated it? I’ll give you a hint - they also initiated the alphabet soup.

r115 and isn't it curious how, just like the MAGAt trolls, "he" is always right there, ready to pounce on every thread with the word "transgender" in it?

I mostly notice the straight women who make an introductory pretends about caring about gay men, then drop it almost immediately when actual gay men start speaking. Then they usually just start calling them ‘misogynistic’.

Lesbians and gay men are natural allies. The trans cultists want to divide and conquer. Anyone who doesn't understand that misogyny is the root of homophobia is a moron.

[quote]Lesbians and gay men are natural allies. The trans cultists want to divide and conquer. Anyone who doesn't understand that misogyny is the root of homophobia is a moron.

I disagree.

On all points.

[quote]Anyone who doesn't understand that misogyny is the root of homophobia is a moron.

I mostly find this statement homophobic, because it removes from us, as gay men, the ability to discuss homophobia when it comes from women.

It's incorrect, yes, but that's the bigger problem.

R159 Gay men try to be allies to lesbians - have literally given them special recognition by adding the “L” and creating an acronym community as requested by separatist lesbians back in the late 80s, yet I hear constant complaints about how gay men don’t do enough to fight against the Ts who want to be front and center in the same manner as the Ls did. Don’t be shocked if gay men seem to be kicking back and enjoying the schadenfreude.

Another obstacle is that women are terrible allies to each other and spar like Siamese fighting fish over who is the most oppressed (straight women vs. lesbian vs. bi vs. female POC, etc.) So when you claim gay men and lesbians are “natural allies” I have to laugh because lesbians have trouble being allies to EACH OTHER, and the gender ideology nonsense that led to the trans craze in the first place was/is FEMALE-dominated. You are giving the “trans cultists” who make up the smallest fraction of the LGBT population way too much credit for fracturing the community. The first blow happened more than 30 years ago.

r162, Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You're not hearing that from anywhere. And to ignore the systemic misogyny and homophobia that is coercing young lesbians into elective double mastectomies and hysterectomies is to miss the entire point of what's happening. Wake the fuck up.

All true, R162.

I notice in the letter from the anonymous lesbian, she writes GLBT (rarely heard these days) but every time she writes LGBTQ she puts it into quotation marks.

The letters were switched for lesbians and it's STILL a problem for them.

I still love the thread title though: "Anonymous Letter From a Terrified Lesbian" sounds like a horror film from 1972.

I'm putting that woman-hating, gay-converting tranny at r62 on ignore and suggest others do the same. It's not as though you can have a proper exchange of ideas with him, his sole intent is to destroy any possible discussion of the problems of gender ideology while spreading hate against women.

You've fully abandoned pretending to care about gay men anyway, straight chick.

It's all women, women, women.

R162 and R163 are both right.

This situation has moved on from being political infighting within the gay rights movement to being organized repression of lesbianism. Gender clinics operate as gay conversion clinics.

Lesbians need to learn to take criticism. You are not without blame.

Joan Baez playing on the old victrola in the attic, a driverless Subaru blaring its horn at the Womyn’s co-op, the missing Birkenstock...

Not the typical jump scares, I know. But it’s a good slow-burn thriller that creeps up on you.

[quote] But most lesbians tend to identify more with feminism not gayness.

How is this so hard to understand? Most of the discrimination women have endured throughout history and even today is because they are biological women.

[quote] Like that lesbian who was appearing on Tucker Carlson and working with the Heritage Foundation and testifying against the Equality Act.

First, the only reason the Heritage Foundation was used was because a group of women had been de-platformed from all other venues. She wasn't working "with" the Heritage Foundation. Similarly the MSM was also refusing to cover women's rights issues vis a vis trans issues. I wasn't happy at first about that but I learned a long time ago as a lobbyist that you sometimes have to partner with the devil in the fight for your cause. Who cares that they used the facilities of the Heritage Foundation. It's not like they were converted to its views. Shame on all those other venues that cowered under the threats of TRAs and participated in that censorship.

R171 I don’t think those lesbians “used” the Heritage Foundation; the Heritage Foundation used THEM. Used them to make the Heritage Foundation appear LGB and female friendly. But in reality, it’s not. It was just another case of THF exploiting women. And I agree the lesbian group should not have been censored by LGBT orgs. If someone wants to censor an opinion, there is probably some truth to the feared opinion. I would rather hear them out and debunk their arguments if I find them weak.

Well, I think they used each other. And frankly, I don't give a damn.

Absolutely, r172.