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Mass Stabbing in Reading, England

3 dead, 14 injured, 2 critically

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by Anonymousreply 18901/11/2021

Not related to the peaceful BLM protest that had ended 2 hours prior.

by Anonymousreply 106/20/2020

It's believed to be a terrorist attack. The suspect is reportedly a Libyan male.

by Anonymousreply 206/20/2020

Yes, the murderer was a member of the religion of peace, founded by that slave holding, child molesting and mass murdering prophet.

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by Anonymousreply 306/20/2020

....

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by Anonymousreply 406/21/2020

I was nowhere near England.

by Anonymousreply 506/21/2020

[Quote] Yes, the murderer was a member of the religion of peace, founded by that slave holding, child molesting and mass murdering prophet.

Block.

Every Muslim isn’t a terrorist just like every Christian isn’t an American terrorist and homophobe.

The right wings of all religions are dangerous

by Anonymousreply 606/21/2020

He came from Libya, the land of Liberty— where men have the liberty to rape whenever they have a sexual emergency.

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by Anonymousreply 706/21/2020

Awaiting the usual cries of he’s not a “real” muslim! Well, he certainly thinks he is. R6 this keeps happening in England over and over. There is an issue here and it’s okay to discuss it. Sweeping it under the rug doesn’t solve anything. I live in London and I’d like to feel safe sitting in the park enjoying the sunshine personally.

by Anonymousreply 806/21/2020

[quote] I live in London and I’d like to feel safe sitting in the park enjoying the sunshine personally.

R8 Nothing would make you feel safe sitting in a park except for every black and brown person around you trying to enjoy the sunshine as well suddenly vanishing. We're not amused.

by Anonymousreply 906/21/2020

That's unfair, R9. R8 never said anything about wanting everyone of other races to vanish. But it would be naive to deny the role of radical Islam in terrorism. The left's tendency to bury their heads in the sand over this is what led to Brexit.

by Anonymousreply 1006/21/2020

R7 = Probable rapist that thinks painting migrants as rapists will take some of the heat off her

by Anonymousreply 1106/21/2020

R7 any video of that?

by Anonymousreply 1206/21/2020

There are so many gay men on here who are apologists for the "religion of piece" (as in hack you to pieces). Are they that stupid?

by Anonymousreply 1306/21/2020

Guns would have helped.

by Anonymousreply 1406/21/2020

R12 Google "Libyan soldiers rape Englishman".

by Anonymousreply 1506/21/2020

Well, guns would have helped the guy to kill a lot more people, certainly, R14. I assume that's what you meant?

by Anonymousreply 1606/21/2020

[quote] But it would be naive to deny the role of radical Islam in terrorism. The left's tendency to bury their heads in the sand over this is what led to Brexit.

No, decades long right wing propaganda, lies and misinformation pumped into the British public coupled with nakedly racist campaigns and innuendo lead to people voting for Brexit. Also not allowing soon to be adults the vote.

No one denies this person is a religious fanatic. But it's worth noting that it's never the focus in the majority of Christian-lead domestic terrorism incidents.

by Anonymousreply 1706/21/2020

We don't care about your porn search history, R15. Go burn a cross.

by Anonymousreply 1806/21/2020

R9 please don’t put words in my mouth. That is rude. P.s. are you the Queen? “We are not amused”. Seeing as how “we” are being rude... you are a pompous git.

by Anonymousreply 1906/21/2020

you're a hysterical ninny R17

by Anonymousreply 2006/21/2020

R15 Google "War is a crime" and see how English soldiers have raped, maimed and slaughtered countless Middle Eastern men women and children. The UK and US have been waging war on Libya for decades.

by Anonymousreply 2106/21/2020

R17 please provide a link to one of the Christian-led domestic terrorist incidents in the UK that you reference. I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time.

by Anonymousreply 2206/21/2020

R20 Aren't you the one who can't sit on a park bench in LONDON without hyperventilating if there's muslims around? Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 2306/21/2020

Last I heard it was one dead and 11 injured.

by Anonymousreply 2406/21/2020

Schizophrenia strickesa again.

by Anonymousreply 2506/21/2020

Don't let these mofos off the base. That's it. Let them train, send them home , but don't let them off base.

by Anonymousreply 2606/21/2020

R22 Preventing women from getting abortions is an act of state lead terrorism that is fundamentally religiously motivated. Of course there is a huge and comprehensive list of direct civil violence perpetrated by radical Xtians and Neo Nazis who are often Christian extremists but we know you're not really interested in the facts of the matter.

by Anonymousreply 2706/21/2020

Gays defending the Islam is like chickens defending KFC.

by Anonymousreply 2806/21/2020

Pavlo Serhiyovych Lapshyn (born 12 March 1988; Ukrainian Cyrillic: Павло Сергійович Лапшин[2]) is a Ukrainian right wing terrorist who committed crimes in 2013 against Muslims in the United Kingdom. Lapshyn was given a life sentence, and will serve a minimum of 40 years,[3] for a murder in Birmingham and three attempted bombings of mosques in the West Midlands. He confessed to police that his motivation was to kill and harm Muslims.

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by Anonymousreply 2906/21/2020

R27 and how precisely does this pertain to the United Kingdom? I’m no fan of religion of any flavour. It’s all worshipping magic sky-god to me. Make your own decisions instead of following some book designed to make you subjugate yourself. I’m trying to engage with you and asking you for facts and you are continuing to avoid the facts and make ad hominem attacks.

by Anonymousreply 3006/21/2020

R29 okay that is one. One. The problems are not equivalent in size or nature. They just aren’t. That isn’t an opinion, it is a fact.

by Anonymousreply 3106/21/2020

A yes the religion of peace strikes again.

by Anonymousreply 3206/21/2020

Can I be in charge of the STRIP SEARCH?

by Anonymousreply 3306/21/2020

The Religion of Peace.

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by Anonymousreply 3406/21/2020

It's easy to identify posters who defend Muslims and Islam (on a gay board!) who are completely ignorant about both (a religion? Islam most certainly is not). They also conveniently overlook every domestic Muslim terror attack from London 2005 to Manchester 2017 to to car rammings, stabbings, acid attacks, and murders to say nothing of those terror attacks that failed or were aborted. They take their indifference/rationale/justification for Muslim terror from the Mayor of London who, giving a "what can one do?" shrug, advised Brits to resign themselves to terrorism.

Madness!

by Anonymousreply 3506/21/2020

[quote] It's easy to identify posters who defend Muslims and Islam (on a gay board!) who are completely ignorant about both (a religion? Islam most certainly is not).

The largest religion in the world is "certainly not a religion" according to R35, who demonstrates with his naked racism what this is really all about.

by Anonymousreply 3606/21/2020

Disliking the Islam is not racist. There are Muslims from all races.

by Anonymousreply 3706/21/2020

R36 shrieks childish invective to hide the fact that she's completely ignorance of Muslims and Islam.

by Anonymousreply 3806/21/2020

[quote] she's completely ignorance of Muslims and Islam.

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 3906/21/2020

R38 = Informed Daily Mail reader completely non-ignorance of Muslims and Islam.

by Anonymousreply 4006/21/2020

R40 IgnoranT of Muslims/Islam and an assumptive ass.

by Anonymousreply 4106/21/2020

R38 R40 Childish invective is an big indication of ignoranCE. You'd do far better to leave it at the elementary school you wandered in from.

by Anonymousreply 4206/21/2020

Last October, he assaulted a judge while she sentenced him for two previous offences (one attack on an emergency worker, and one on a security guard).

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by Anonymousreply 4306/21/2020

Is the media going to pull stories out of their ass about The shooter being GAY therefore not a true Muslim?

Cunt Asshole Gash Angela Merkel has used that excuse quite a few times

by Anonymousreply 4406/21/2020

*the stabbers

by Anonymousreply 4506/21/2020

[quote]I’m trying to engage with you and asking you for facts and you are continuing to avoid the facts and make ad hominem attacks.

Calm yourself, R30 you’re lapsing into verse.

by Anonymousreply 4606/21/2020

Chef Boyardee at R25

by Anonymousreply 4706/21/2020

I see the you’re not allowed to talk about this topic police is on patrol on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 4806/21/2020

"Every Muslim isn’t a terrorist just like every Christian isn’t an American terrorist and homophobe."

A well-meaning but idiotic attempt to sanitize reality. The vast majority of terrorist acts worldwide are committed by Muslims. A certain type of liberal desperate no be be called "racist" and overeager to be seen as "worldly" will come up with the dumbest excuses for Islam which is not a religion but a fascist lifestyle dogma.

From their "whatabout-ism" which normalizes violent misogyny, homophobia and violence, you people are what Muslims call "usefull fools" and that you are.

by Anonymousreply 4906/21/2020

It seems like especially over the last 10-15 years, hardcore Muslims have taken over London. I got my masters in London in 2013-2015. Everyone at my University was Muslim. There was one other American student in my class and we were both like "WTF, where are all the British people". At the time, "Jihadi John" was in the news for beheading these young American reporters on TV and I think it was the first time I heard of Isis. It turns out our student union was run by radicalized Muslims. Our LGBT group felt unsafe, which at first I didn't understand why, but then I got out at that the younger undergrad students where being harassed by Muslims.. We end up getting a letter that Jihadi John was an alumnus of our school, before his identity is leaked. He's a very wealthy kid who grew up in Maida Vale. My school was OK in terms of standing (it's no Oxford or Imperial College), but we did invent the first movie theatre/cinema on Oxford street. I was just recently back for a visit this past Christmas. My uber driver was an asshole and was saying Muslim prayers the entire trip from Heathrow. It doesn't even feel like there are any more British people in London. I lived in Sloane Square - the days of Sloane Rangers are long over - they have all moved to other areas. Knightsbridge is basically Saudi Arabia and that neighborhood has really gone done hill despite being incredibly expensive.

by Anonymousreply 5006/21/2020

[quote] Every Muslim isn’t a terrorist just like every Christian isn’t an American terrorist and homophobe. The right wings of all religions are dangerous

Yes

by Anonymousreply 5106/21/2020

Didn’t even have to read the story to know it was a Moose Lamb.

by Anonymousreply 5206/21/2020

Muslims are terrorists and homophobes. Just look at The pulse shooting. Hillary lost my vote when she re unused to condemn the shooter and instead blamed his attack on his closeted gayness. ( which turned out to be another one of her disgusting lies)

by Anonymousreply 5306/21/2020

[quote] I live in London and I’d like to feel safe sitting in the park enjoying the sunshine personally.

Everyone deeply cares about your feelings, and as long as you can feel safe in the park, the rights of every Muslim in the UK should be trampled upon.

by Anonymousreply 5406/21/2020

R54 that is the perpetual culture of grievance summed up right there in 29 words. Who exactly is trampling on the rights of UK Muslims? They can certainly live here freely compared with Muslim-majority countries. It really does sound like you are implying innocent people deserve to be stabbed and die which is completely deplorable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

by Anonymousreply 5506/21/2020

R54 ok I’m done. You are either trolling or you are insane or both.

by Anonymousreply 5606/21/2020

r50 I'm also American who's been visiting London regularly for 20 years now, and my experience mirrors yours. It's quite unfortunate, and I have no idea why it was allowed to escalate.

by Anonymousreply 5706/21/2020

“he’s not Muslim he’s gay” is a common tactic far leftists use to defend Muslims from things that their members do.

It’s coming.

by Anonymousreply 5806/21/2020

Brits, what brought the massive influx of Muslims? I'm from LA and I know that the fall of the Shah was why so many Persians came here in the early 80's. Was there some sort of inciting incident? It's not easy to immigrate to the UK outside of the EU. It's very hard for an American to just move there and get a job unless in a highly specialized field, which is odd since you are our closet ally.

by Anonymousreply 5906/21/2020

R54 - Since when does acknowledging a problem with lacklustre assessment of people seeking to enter the UK as refugees aydd up to "trampling on the rights of every Muslim"?

The real problem is that Britain's government hasn't thought it worthwhile to give enough funding to the agencies that are supposed to enforce the laws of the country and process people quickly and send them back where they came from if they either aren't genuinely who and what they say they are, or evidence other problems such as criminal records and mental illness.

Thousands of "refugees" have landed on Britain's shores in the last few years in rubber dinghies, all coming from France, a safe country, and claiming asylum in the UK.

Less than 100 have been sent back, encouraging ever more to make the trip. They only have to get close enough for the Coast Guard to spot them, pick them, and tow them to safety, where, at the taxpayers' expense, they get housed, fed, clothed, medical care for years.

The country that held off the blitz and the Third Reich after a near complete defeat in June 1940 at Dunkirk, can't even protect their shores from floods of migrants doing some country shopping in rubber dinghies. They're too scared to get tough.

Don't fob us off with that "the rights of all Muslims" - those grooming gangs in Rotherham and elsewhere up and down the country got away with it for so long because the authorities were too afraid of being accused of racism.

All Muslims aren't rapists or terrorists. But the fact remains that Britain has seen too many of these incidents not to have to acknowledge that it does have a wee problem with people it has let in.

Trying to pretend that doing anything about it tramples on the rights of all Muslims is a transparent excuse not to do anything for fear of offending tender sensibilities.

The entire Pakistani community in Rotherham knew about the grooming gangs. No one went to the authorities about it.

Instead, one of the earliest reports of it by a social worker to the local Labour Council got this response: "You must never say things like that." And she got sent off for "diversity" training.

If you want to know what makes people wish they'd voted differently over the last 40 years, that's a perfect example. The Labour Council Chief at the time is on record as stating he shrugged it off and maybe should have looked into the report, "but I didn't want to rock the multicultural boat".

It's the 1,500 young Anglo girls whose rights were trampled on, you fucking racist.

by Anonymousreply 6006/21/2020

The reason that the UK has a Muslim problem is because of Tony Blair. When he came to power he, and a few others within Labour, decided to increase immigration from Muslims countries to stick it to the Tories, they also thought it would bring in more Labour support for the future despite the fact that Muslim followers are extremely conservative. A narrative was created during the 2000's that anyone who questioned why there was so many Muslims coming to the UK would be deemed racist and could lose their job and possibly charged. This isn't a secret as it was well publicised and ironically was one of the many reasons that Labour lost power in 2010. It is also why Labour have been deemed to have lost it's connection with the working class, as the working class were the people who had to deal with the issues of Muslim migrants directly in their towns and neighborhoods, while the champagne socialists patted themselves on the back for diversity and sticking it to the Tories.

by Anonymousreply 6106/21/2020

R36, islam is not the largest religion on earth. 34% of the world's population is Christian. 23% are muslim.

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by Anonymousreply 6206/21/2020

R62 - Not for long. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It already has over one billion adherents. As the West detaches itself from its Christian roots in favour of secularism, the more muscular and self-confident Islam (which isn't afraid to believe in something and doesn't have wet messes like the Archbishop of Canterbury making it clear that the CoE doesn't stand for anything you can't find in the TIMES of a Sunday morning, so why bother with church?) grows.

Most Muslims I have met are kindly, generous, hard-working, and their focus on family, whilst sometimes going too far, seems to be where Western Christian family focus was 50 years ago. Today, the West is so focussed on "self-realisation" that the birthrate has suffered, as has cultural cohesion.

Remains to be seen if, after a few generations in the self-obsessed West, Islam becomes "Europeanised" and goes the same route.

That isn't to deny that there have been major problems in assimilation (the government were foolish to go for multiculturalism rather than integration) and that too much immigration happened too fast.

Identity politics are shredding and dividing the country which once had a far more coherent culture. It's not the fault necessarily of the immigrants - I blame blinkered governments who threw all the chips in the air without the slightest regard for where and how they fell and then face-palmed when we didn't turn out to be Happy Families with a few Ethnicity-Light differences.

And politicians of every stripe have rushed to mine the resulting mess and blame everyone else but themselves.

by Anonymousreply 6306/21/2020

r61, the vast majority of murders are not committed by Muslims. Sorry to disappoint you bigots.

by Anonymousreply 6406/21/2020

r49, ranting about liberals just shows how biased you are

Right-wingers are busy denying that a ton of terrorist acts are committed by white Supremacists. They're busy pretending that the Boogaloo Boys aren't right-wing

The IRA killed a bunch of people but you won't hear right-wing assholes bitching about Irish people because they're white

by Anonymousreply 6506/21/2020

Blair ruined England, full stop.

by Anonymousreply 6606/21/2020

R61, R66 Yes. Ex-Prime Minister Tony Blair created this situation.

Blair is catholic. He suffers with 'White Guilt' and his hatred of his political opponents morphed into a hatred of traditional English culture.

He made use of the Englishman's 'sympathy for the underdog' to change the rules, make the nation more "diverse".

His snivelling assistant, by name of Andrew Neather, described the policy with a vile analogy. He said "we wanted to rub the Right's nose in diversity".

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by Anonymousreply 6706/21/2020

^ I described this analogy as vile because it suggests that—

1. Britons are homeowners.

2. Migrants are dogs and cats.

3. Their presence in Britain is like dog excrement on the carpet.

by Anonymousreply 6806/21/2020

[quote]The IRA killed a bunch of people but you won't hear right-wing assholes bitching about Irish people because they're white

Are you kidding? Back in the IRA days the Irish got a ton of shit from right wingers.

by Anonymousreply 6906/21/2020

[quote]The IRA killed a bunch of people but you won't hear right-wing assholes bitching about Irish people because they're white

This is the woefully muddled mindset of those who cluelessly believe that one bombing is much like another, killing bunch of people is killing a bunch of people.

The IRA wanted the English out of Northern Ireland. The IRA didn't commit acts of terror locally or around the world against anyone who wasn't Irish nor was it interested in conquering the world for Ireland nor demanding that the world be Irish.

by Anonymousreply 7006/21/2020

Thank God I only take the B&O, Pennsylvania and Short Line railroads.

by Anonymousreply 7106/21/2020

[quote]Yes. Ex-Prime Minister Tony Blair created this situation.

It may help to remember that Blair currently earns milliions of pounds "consulting" for the Sauds. One can only wonder if his "consultancy" began while he was PM.

by Anonymousreply 7206/21/2020

[The IRA didn't commit acts of terror locally or around the world against anyone who wasn't Irish]

Do you not recall all the IRA bombings in London and other English cities? I was a student in London at the time. All of us received training to watch for abandoned boxes, bags, etc in buses and on sidewalks I was in my flat on the phone with a friend in Geneva when a massive bomb went off outside in Aldwych Road So loud my friend asked 'what was that?'

That said these Islamic terrorists are far worse IMO

BTW Jihadi John was a student at my Uni the LSE while I was a student. Chilling to learn his identity.

by Anonymousreply 7306/21/2020

They really went overboard with immigration. It hasn't turned Britain into a land of sunshine and roses, as was intended. It's actually been quite disastrous.

by Anonymousreply 7406/21/2020

Revealed: Reading terror suspect Khairi Saadallah was freed early from jail after judge reduced his sentence in March as second victim is named as 'brilliant and loving' gay American amid fears attack was motivated by homophobia Pharmaceutical worker Joe Ritchie-Bennett, 39, and history teacher James Furlong, 36, are two of the victims Khairi Saadallah, 25, is accused of carrying out frenzied knife attack that killed three in Reading on Saturday Security guard revealed he saw the attacker being detained - including the moment he was rugby tackled Saadallah, a Libyan refugee, is reported to have come to the UK to escape from 'Islamists' in his homeland Minute's silence was held in Reading at 10am today, while students of Mr Furlong have been laying flowers ** Do you know Khairi Saadallah? Please email: tips@dailymail.com **

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by Anonymousreply 7506/22/2020

the suspect:

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by Anonymousreply 7606/22/2020

^ The link won’t work - just go to the Dailymail front page:

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by Anonymousreply 7706/22/2020

Pinknews:

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by Anonymousreply 7806/22/2020

[quote][R17] please provide a link to one of the Christian-led domestic terrorist incidents in the UK that you reference. I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time.

Any pertaining to "the Troubles" would count, R22. Too many to name.

by Anonymousreply 7906/22/2020

Kinda long post. Sorry. 🖕🏽

The problem is that so many of the men who immigrated, are coming from a world where they were a few steps above living like cavemen. They are taught to hate women & everyone who isn’t them, from birth!

They come from areas where there’s zero to no education, & a labor market is minimal to non-existent. So what do they do with all of their free time? Fanatically pray to Allah, 5 times a day, creating conspiracy theories amongst themselves, about the women and girls they live around or with, in order to go home and beat them, rape them, or even kill them, as soon as they leave their mosques, where women and girls are not allowed to enter. Domestic violence & sexual assault, is a form of showing that they observe their religion, and prove to other male peers in their own communities, that they are good Muslims. Becoming a terrorist can also be interpreted as being a good Muslim. That, is the most profoundly sad and fucked up thing about so many religions, but this one is endorsing and teaching an ideology that justifies murder. And that ideology, starts with the indoctrination of their small boys.

The little boys are not only taught to do nothing but pray, control women by any violent means necessary, they are also taught to hate all Westerners, including and especially, gays and women, whom are immediately categorized as infidels, and whores, because they don’t worship Allah, aren’t closeted, and don’t wear what is the equivalent of a black tarp with two holes for the eyes, from the crown of their heads to the underside of their feet.

by Anonymousreply 8006/22/2020

Continued from R80

By the time the boys are 10, it is pretty much a done deal. They have been indoctrinated into a way of life, in the name of religion, that molds them to become young adolescents & men, who exhibit and display, what basically amounts to what we refer to as an antisocial personality and behavioral disorder. And the worst part is, that many of these kids were probably not born with the actual, clinical disorder, or even had a blunt force trauma brain injury, in order to qualify them for such a diagnosis. However, as we all know, physiologically, their brains are shaped into an organ that has usually processing trauma at home, from birth. Oftentimes, this is also due to war, the after effects of that war, regardless of where those communities are later created. And let’s not forget the possible prevalence of genetically acquired mental illness and actual disabilities that may or may not be observed, by the naked eye, that these children face, due to being the progeny of intra-familial marriages between close relatives. How is anyone expected to fare well socially, or easily assimilate to any new environment, when growing up under these circumstances? This is a travesty! Imagine growing up like this, with zero to no other book to read, other than one that is oftentimes interpreted as a handbook to learning antisocial behavior. One that justifies the behavior, as something positive? We all know that the book is the Quran.

One day, you suddenly have these boys who end up in the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, or wherever, which is the society that they have been SPECIFICALLY taught from their cradles, to despise, and THIS is what you get. Absolute mayhem, rape, domestic violence, bombs, and terror. Even the ones who got there young, grow up, marry, have children, go on to teach their boys the same things they were taught back home, and then you get a situation where a very young man, such as this one, goes on to stab as many westerners as possible on a Sunday afternoon.

Fortunately, this does not apply to most Muslims who were fortunate enough to immigrate back in the 70s and early 80s, & assimilated smoothly. That said, plenty of terrorists are very well educated, & come from wealth. This young man was probably literate & bi-lingual. The commonality among all is their religion.

I have absolutely no quarrel with Muslims, and I do not despise them, , nor am I in any way a racist, however, I despise any religion that I observe, which turns entire communities or villages, of young kids into psychopaths, and does so, starting at birth, without the consent of the very children who grow up to become criminals & terrorists.

by Anonymousreply 8106/22/2020

You would stab people too if you had rotten teeth.

by Anonymousreply 8206/22/2020

R80, R81 I think you have really hit the nail on the head. What also bothers me is the loss of human potential from all the people who live like that.

by Anonymousreply 8306/22/2020

Religion, when experienced under the environment of war, poverty, genocide, and dogmatic exclusion of those who are not observant or who observe other religions, cannot be interpreted as religions of “peace”, in ANY society, including ours.

This applies to ALL religions, as we who hail from western & “civilized” democracies, very well know.

The problem isn’t primarily, xenophobia. The problem is the varying religions that promote the roots of xenophobia, including those who propagate terrorism as a form of negotiating any and all opposing views to their beliefs.

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by Anonymousreply 8406/22/2020

I've been saying this for years, but if the Muslim faith were practiced by people who were lily white Anglo Saxons, the Western world would have no problem telling them all to go fuck themselves, as is routinely done with fanatical Christian fundamentalists. Islam would be considered a dangerous cult and nobody would take it seriously.

by Anonymousreply 8506/22/2020

Reminder that a lot of the posts here are paid trolls from sites like Breitbart. Ignore them. Everyone condemns these acts and we aren't 'apologizing' for a religion, we just aren't bigots.

by Anonymousreply 8606/22/2020

Thanks for the video r84. That was great.

by Anonymousreply 8706/22/2020

r86 gay people are not a monolith and don't all think alike. Hardly paid trolls, but real people with differences of opinion.

For the record, I have never in my life known a gay man or lesbian who has anything good to say about Islam, unlike what I've seen on DL.

by Anonymousreply 8806/22/2020

R78 do you think they were targeted or it was random?

by Anonymousreply 8906/22/2020

Well, I’m certainly not a bigot, nor a xenophobe. However, the points I made in my posts @ R80, R81, & R84, including the video I linked, are there to explain exactly why some of us here are not bigoted, and/or xenophobic.

There is an Islam problem due to interpretations of the Quran. To deny that is ridiculous, & does not make it not true.

Terrorism, ALL terrorism, is ALWAYS rooted in some sort of ideology. It matters not, if the terrorist is Timothy McVeigh, Osama Bin Ladin, or the IRA, or the US Military.

Now, that said, the ideological explanations and justifications for these acts of terrorism, may be pure bullshit, which I believe is oftentimes the case, whether the act is domestic, foreign or militarized, and sanctioned by US policy & it’s allies, whether secular, or religious. However, when it comes specifically to Islamic terrorism, which ONLY becomes Islamic terrorism, because an Islamic terror cell or group, or lone wolf, claims to be responsible for the terrorist act, and along with the claim, is always done in the name of Allah & Jihad- A god, and religious tenant, originated within an interpretation of a Quran.

Is that true? Well, I don’t know that every single individual, or persons, actually and genuinely, committed a terrorist act, in the name of Allah. I can only claim to know this, if I know that it has been attributed to an Islamic group or individual, who claims that it was done in the name of Allah as the primary objective, & if that claim has been authenticated by various, credible sources not just one.

Yet, even then, blanketing this as one single thing, is intellectually dishonest, and disingenuous. How does someone end up making a decision to commit an act of terrorism? It has to start somewhere, and oftentimes, there’s a systematic grooming, founded upon the exploitation of variables such as: age, life inexperience, isolation, lack of resources, poverty, learning disabilities, failure to thrive, failure to socialize and assimilate, or mental illness involved.

You pair any of these aforementioned variables with profound and consistent, regular grooming and peer pressure from a group of men you might admire, under the name of ANY secularist or religious dogma, or a Deity, that is being used to go against one’s most basic and fundamental, biological instincts, including avoiding lack of freedom and the PRIMARY instinct we all share, no matter where we were born or environmentally socialized, which we all know is self preservation, by avoiding death at all costs, whether caused via self harm, or by possible mortal injuries, possibly caused by outside forces, then you are eventually and/or possibly, going to end up with a terrorist, who is going to go on and attempt, fail, or succeed, at committing an act of terrorism.

So let me be clear. I have no clue if this young man who stabbed an array of Brits, killing several, did this as an act of terrorism. However, the reason why so many people assume that this is so, is because almost every terrorist act committed in the developed world, over the last 20-40 years, not including the military of any nation for this specific point, has taken place, because either a terrorist group claimed their involvement, and claimed to be Islamic, and motivated by Jihad, or the acts of terrorism have been committed by ideological psychopaths, such as Timothy McVeigh, or true racists, anti-semites, and xenophobes, as we have witnessed with the shooting of African Americans at church, here in the US, the Jewish Temple shooting in Pennsylvania, & the mosque massacre in New Zealand.

Pointing out the similarities and differences doesn’t make be a bigot. It makes me someone who knows that despite the differences offered to us as simplistic explanations for terrorism, the people who go on to commit these acts, share MUCH in common, rather than not, AND... we never discuss this as rational, intelligent adults, without being called bigots, and other, some-such ridiculous, unfounded bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 9006/22/2020

[quote][R78] do you think they were targeted or it was random?

That the man has been charged with terrorism offences rather than simply murder means the police knew he was accessing material to inspire/instruct him to go out and murder people, but the victims he selected in the park were most likely picked at random.

There was a Black Lives Matter in the park 2 hours previously so the park would have been filled with some of the attendees along with others just wanting some fresh air and hanging out with their friends as part of a sunny Saturday evening.

by Anonymousreply 9106/22/2020

I didn’t know this, R91.

Interesting yet relatively fortunate, that he used the least effective weapon: a knife.

JFC. Religion truly is the root of all evil. Money is just money, depending on who has it, AND who doesn’t.

by Anonymousreply 9206/22/2020

Apropos of absolutely nothing...*clears throat*

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by Anonymousreply 9306/22/2020

R91 the third man who was murdered has just been confirmed as gay so I’m going with targeted. In that, he went there to murder people but focused on gay guys. I don’t know about the other victims who were injured though. I guess I’ll be avoiding the park for the foreseeable. I live in London.

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by Anonymousreply 9406/22/2020

r94, I'll guess two of those men in the photo are/were gay. How fucking sad. This should have never happened.

by Anonymousreply 9506/22/2020

I wonder if the asshole saw the men showing affection or the like and singled them out. Were they the first he attacked?

by Anonymousreply 9606/22/2020

I just realized that these guys who were murdered, may have very likely participated here, on DataLounge.

by Anonymousreply 9706/22/2020

. R97. Oh yes. They'd throw us all from rooftops given the opportunity. Never forget this.

by Anonymousreply 9806/22/2020

Why do gay men contort themselves so wretchedly to defend Islam? Tell me, what is it you LIKE about Islam.

Cluck cluck little chickens I'm sure they won't throw YOU into the fabulous woodchipper.

by Anonymousreply 9906/22/2020

BBC Radio presenter pays tribute to her friend Joe Ritchie-Bennett, one of the victims of Saadallah. She says his husband died of cancer six years ago.

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by Anonymousreply 10006/22/2020

This is terribly politically incorrect and flies in the face of modern leftist ideology, but you just cannot civilize these people. They are backwards, intolerant psychopaths and they can never and will never be able to be integrated into first world Western societies. They shouldn't be allowed in Western countries.

by Anonymousreply 10106/22/2020

There are home-grown Islamic terrorists as well, like Jihadi John. They're cultivated in the mosques.

by Anonymousreply 10206/22/2020

R101 Do you say the same for homophobic white Christians from Eastern Europe or rural areas? I wonder why on DL there is so much more outrage for Black and Muslim homophobia compared to other types. Why is there always discussion of 'first world western societies' when a lot of people in the West who aren't Muslim are also very intolerant and will do stuff given the chance?

by Anonymousreply 10306/22/2020

[quote]Do you say the same for homophobic white Christians from Eastern Europe or rural areas?

Sure. Russians never should've been allowed into the US. Scum, all of them. Total fucking scum. Ask anyone who's had dealings with those psychos.

by Anonymousreply 10406/22/2020

[quote]Why is there always discussion of 'first world western societies' when a lot of people in the West who aren't Muslim are also very intolerant and will do stuff given the chance?

Because we're talking about backass Medieval Muslim who refuse to embrace the values of Western society. You want to talk about other groups, piss off and make your own thread. The West has far too much to handle.

by Anonymousreply 10506/22/2020

R105 You are naive if you think most of the people in a city like San Francisco share the same values as those who live in a town in Ohio, despite being 'western'. People who bring up 'western values' use it as a dog whistle to be xenophobic and act like all people from the Middle East are subhuman.

by Anonymousreply 10606/22/2020

^. 'subhumans' are happier living with their goats.

by Anonymousreply 10706/22/2020

I have never in my life seen a gay man or lesbian defend Islam or who thinks having large numbers of Muslims in Western countries is anything other than a horrible idea. Who the fuck are these apologists?

by Anonymousreply 10806/22/2020

You can find those apologists here on DL.

I'm assuming they either live in Deerborn, are college students or are naive SJWs.

by Anonymousreply 10906/22/2020

Nobody apologizes for Islam. It's something right wingers made up so they could be xenophobic and prejudiced. We just acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad. Generalizing billions of people doesn't get us anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 11006/22/2020

r110 mass Muslim immigration has been a detriment, no denying that.

by Anonymousreply 11106/22/2020

R110 You sound like an apologist to me. Can you apologise away why SO many need to kill?

by Anonymousreply 11206/22/2020

R112 Saying that some Muslims aren't bad isn't defending a religion. You know people can be good or bad despite the religion they follow? Islam does have problems but it's not an excuse to discriminate whole swaths of people.

by Anonymousreply 11306/22/2020

R103 is right. And again, this is what I am repeatedly attempting to point out in my previous posts upthread.

Most Muslims are NOT Jihadists, yet unfortunately, due to different interpretations of the Quran, a section of them become indoctrinated into a radicalized form of extremism, and that isn’t just reserved for Jihadists. Other terrorists from varying walks of life, are usually also radicalized either online, and/or via groups which they are exposed to and join.

by Anonymousreply 11406/22/2020

No shit.

Hey, remember this one?

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by Anonymousreply 11506/22/2020

Islam is a religion, not a race. Ffs

by Anonymousreply 11606/22/2020

Christianity began in the middle east and Jesus was Jewish. Neither began in Europe. Educate you fucking self.

by Anonymousreply 11706/22/2020

What's your point r117?

by Anonymousreply 11806/22/2020

[quote]I wonder why on DL there is so much more outrage for Black and Muslim homophobia compared to other types. Why is there always discussion of 'first world western societies' when a lot of people in the West who aren't Muslim are also very intolerant and will do stuff given the chance?

The Black and Muslim communities are being excused in social inculcation vis-a-vis homosexuals in that White homophobia BAD! Black and Muslim homophobia uhhh . . . ummm . . . kinda way. To say nothing of Black and Muslim racism, bigotry and misogyny. People won't remain silent and subdued for long about hypocrisy.

by Anonymousreply 11906/22/2020

There is no individuality in Islam. There is only submission.

by Anonymousreply 12006/22/2020

R120 'Submission' is the name of an interesting recent French novel. (the situation in France is much worse than England's and hundred times worse than the USA)

The French author says— "Muslims don’t care much about economy… they care about the birth rate and education… to them it’s simple—whichever segment of the population has the highest birth rate , and does the best job of transmitting their value wins .

"If you control the children, you control the future …"

by Anonymousreply 12106/22/2020

r86 = r103 = r106 = r110 = r113

For those keeping tabs.

by Anonymousreply 12206/22/2020

R103 because the homophobic Eastern Europeans may give you the side eye on the street, but won't stab you as you sit in the park enjoying a sunny evening with your friends. That's why. I've never had a negative interaction with anyone from Eastern Europe when I've worked there or here in the UK. They tend to live and let live. They "won't do stuff if given the chance". That is a false equivalence. This constant attempted suppression of talking about the issue of terrorism and islam will just cause it to explode in the future. It's like putting a lid on a boiling pot.

by Anonymousreply 12306/22/2020

Any ideology that expects, forces, and enforces that everyone be either one way, or not exist, is going to run into problems.

Constantly policing, subverting individuality, & attempting to control people, specifically the way women dress, and sexual desires, is why I left Christianity. It’s sick, and there’s no joy in living like that.

Children who grow up in such rigid environments eventually end up with issues. I processed that dysfunction by turning to drugs and alcohol. So imagine had I been a boy, raised in a strict household where Islam was taught to me from a young age? I too, may have ended up stabbing people.

You cannot put people in a tiny box, and not expect them to grow out of that tiny box, as healthy, well centered people. And you put them in a tiny box, with the idea that violence is a solution to their problems? You end up with an entire group of very emotionally fucked up people, who will eventually process all of the dysfunction that they were subjected to, with the violence that you taught them was the solution to all of their problems, instead walking away from all of it, and going to a fucking therapist, like the rest of us do.

by Anonymousreply 12406/23/2020

R117 precisely.

I like to remind people that in England witch-burnings began along with augmented subjugation of women only because Crusaders brought home with them Muslim doctors & scientists & clerics as well as some heinous ideology. At the end of the so-called Dark Ages, the true faith of a peaceful Britain (Paganry) was once again stamped down by BOTH Christian & Muslim fundamentalists working together. Both imported desert cults have been ruining this island since the 13th Century, and their adherents are absolutely sick and need to go once and for all. It’s dreadful that we ever allowed this parasitic belief system onto our shores (plentiful loot talks, I suppose). Wish the Vikings had stuck around instead, tbh.

by Anonymousreply 12506/23/2020

You long for the Vikings, r125?

Ok.

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by Anonymousreply 12606/23/2020

Although, r125, the rest of your points are well taken.

by Anonymousreply 12706/23/2020

R124 you are completely right, but how do they get out of that box? The first step as with everything is acknowledging there is a problem.

by Anonymousreply 12806/23/2020

There's no way out of the box now, r128.

You've been placed in it by your 'betters', and you will suffer accordingly.

If you are gay and having lunch in a park and some person with more 'woke' privilege than you decides to stab you, then the police will let it happen and you will die, because it's no longer worth their pension to save you.

And that, as they say, is that.

by Anonymousreply 12906/23/2020

R109 - That's Dearborn, not Deerborn, and it has a huge Somali Muslim population.

by Anonymousreply 13006/23/2020

R130 I hear the ones in Dearborn are rich and integrated whereas the ones in Britain and Australia are angry, incestuous and refuse to integrate even though government welfare is so extremely generous.

The British people insist on bearing 'the White Man's Burden' long after the end of the Empire.

by Anonymousreply 13106/23/2020

Any God that tells you to murder people in the name of God is in fact Satan. Any religion that tells you to murder people is a follower of Satan. The fastest-growing religion in the world follows Satan, not God.

by Anonymousreply 13206/23/2020

All religion sucks. And I do mean all of them. I worked for the Office of Tibet (the Dalai Lama) representing their interests in the UN Human Rights Commission a few times. Just another religious order with political aspirations and men in grey suits

But most religions don't advocate the mass murder of non-believers and throwing gays from rooftops.

by Anonymousreply 13306/23/2020

The Somali community in Dearborn may be rich, but they are hardly well-integrated; the women for the most part wear traditional dress, and the authorities have had a problem with FGM in the community.

by Anonymousreply 13406/23/2020

Somali kids in Minneapolis harass a gay man on the street.

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by Anonymousreply 13506/23/2020

Somali kids in Minneapolis harass a gay man on the street.

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by Anonymousreply 13606/23/2020

This is a 3 year old video of Mohammudans in Holland wanting to kill gays

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by Anonymousreply 13706/23/2020

Somalis aren't well liked anywhere really. Even other Muslims have problems with them.

by Anonymousreply 13806/23/2020

Apologists = Fetishists = Mental cases

by Anonymousreply 13906/23/2020

Even the Darfur Orphan doesn't like Somalis.

That's why the Chinese are having such an easy time infiltrating Africa. The Chinese offer big infrastructure at cheap rates to poor nations knowing they will renege on the payments so China goes in to colonise further.

by Anonymousreply 14006/23/2020

[Quote] China goes in to colonise further.

Good luck with that China. Muslims are not fans of them. Just look at western China.

by Anonymousreply 14106/23/2020

............

by Anonymousreply 14206/24/2020

R141 China doesn't care what Muslims are a fan off. If China wants that land, then they will take it and they will remove the people on that land if they cause issues.

by Anonymousreply 14306/24/2020

Somalia is, I believe, currently listed as the worst place in the world to be born female.

by Anonymousreply 14406/24/2020

... ..

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by Anonymousreply 14506/24/2020

The only good thing about that Dutch video is that its apparent Dutch authorities infiltrated that group. They've been doing quite a good job of this.

Its the random freak or two unassociated with a group that are difficult to stop.

by Anonymousreply 14606/24/2020

R125 knows nothing at all about the history of alleged witches in European or English history. The great witch hunt began in the mid 15th century in the Alpine/North Italian region and spread out from there to peak in the 17th century. and had nothing to do with Islam or the crusades. Oh, and witches were never burned in England - they were hanged.

by Anonymousreply 14706/25/2020

Douglas Murray: the victims were not "members of the LGBT community"; they were GAY MEN

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by Anonymousreply 14806/25/2020

^ He says 'we have become juvenile' at 6.54.

by Anonymousreply 14906/25/2020

[Quote] Douglas Murray: the victims were not "members of the LGBT community"; they were GAY MEN

He's correct.

by Anonymousreply 15006/25/2020

Indeed

by Anonymousreply 15106/25/2020

This is specifically in response to posters who are saying that homophobic Eastern Europeans may have negative attitudes towards gay people but don’t commit violent acts against us.

1) From the Guardian:

“A University of Warsaw study last year found more than two-thirds of people identifying as LGBTI in Poland had endured psychological or physical violence, and 70% of teenagers identifying as LGBTI had had suicidal thoughts. At a recent equality parade in the eastern Polish city of Białystok, far-right thugs physically assaulted participants after the event was publicly denounced by the local archbishop.“

2) From Europe Now Journal:

“Further, it is important to note that even in 2010, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, and Estonia saw increases in the percent of people mentioning homosexuals as undesirable neighbors from the previous time period. As these older patterns make clear, the rising homonegativity and anti-homosexual violence we see occurring now has much deeper roots.”

3) From the European Consortium for Political Research:

“Three main groups of perpetrators of violence against the LGBT community can be identified. The first are members of the far-right groups, whether of neo-Nazi persuasion or various nationalist currents (including clerical-fascist, which play an important role in Central and Eastern Europe). In some cases these come out of the organized para-military formations (for example in Hungary) or satellite organizations of political parties (such as the All-Polish Youth linked to the League of Polish Families), other cases they are members of illegal groups (National Resistance in the CR, Blood and Honor in Serbia), unorganized religious fanatics (the case of orthodox Christian attackers in Russia), and in a number of countries (Russia, Serbia, Poland) members of ultra-right-wing gangs of football hooligans. Other attackers are ―ordinary citizens‖ influenced by the culture and attitudes aimed against the LGBT community. A third, separate group are the members of the security forces, especially the police.“

by Anonymousreply 15206/25/2020

What you won't hear is

"Third world, homophobic terrorist Muslim kills four white gay guys in UK", because even worse than getting murdered is seeming Islamophobic to a brown-skinned person here at the tail end of Trans Woman of Color Pride Month!

Sadly, immigration doesn't always work out well.

by Anonymousreply 15306/25/2020

That idiot at R67 named Andrew Neather talked about 'multiculturalism' but it is in fact 'disintegration' of society.

by Anonymousreply 15406/25/2020

DL fave Owen Jones also reduced the victims as "LGBTQ Men" . Since when the word "gay' become a taboo ?

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by Anonymousreply 15506/25/2020

Seriously, with someone like Owen Jones, who the fuck needs enemies.

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by Anonymousreply 15606/26/2020

Owen has that little turned-up nose, just like Greta Thunberg

by Anonymousreply 15706/26/2020

R148 - Douglas Murray, along with Laurence Fox, is one of the few men left in England telling the truth - and, naturally, being socially crucified for it.

by Anonymousreply 15806/26/2020

An amusing Twitter shitfight has broken out between Douglas Murray and the highly photogenic Benjamin Cohen, owner of Pink News. Murray suggested it wasn't thriving. Cue Cohen...

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by Anonymousreply 15906/26/2020

I'm not English.

But is Benjamin Cohen one of those who think the Transvestites are more important than Gays?

by Anonymousreply 16006/26/2020

They couldn't get enough of the tiny tot drag queen 'Amazing Desmond'. A child, and more particularly their mother, who shouldn't have been given a molecule of media air. But I feel the same way about the Thunberg and her parents.

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by Anonymousreply 16106/26/2020

Another mass stabbing has happened in Glasgow, near a hotel housing asylum seekers.

by Anonymousreply 16206/26/2020

Nothing but problems.

by Anonymousreply 16306/26/2020

Most of the birth defects in tbe UK are from Pakistanis marrying their first cousins. Nasty incestuous people. Islam is a pox on society.

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by Anonymousreply 16406/26/2020

On social media, people seem more worried about the attack in Glasgow "being used for a racist agenda" than they do about two people being fucking stabbed. What is wrong with some people?

When the BBC revealed the name of the Reading attacker as Khairi Saadallah, there were tweets about how naming him was "dog-whistle Islamophobia". Do they honestly think the BBC wouldn't have mentioned his name if it were John Smith?

by Anonymousreply 16506/26/2020

[quote] It seems like especially over the last 10-15 years, hardcore Muslims have taken over London

When I first saw this picture I knew what it foretold for England. Why didn't you see it too? Or more to the point why didn't the English people.

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by Anonymousreply 16606/26/2020

Nothing but problems with those people. Seriously, it's a fact. Every damn place that has them has problems.

by Anonymousreply 16706/26/2020

Another "refugee", this time from the Sudan, went on a knife rampage in Glasgow.

The police aren't treating it as "terror" related because he was apparently angry at his "accommodations" in a Glasgow hotel and the food he was being given.

For free.

From the TELEGRAPH:

"Police shot dead an asylum seeker who went on a knife rampage on Friday after complaining about the hotel meals served to him during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The knifeman, who was from Sudan, had threatened violence against other refugees and complained he was ‘very hungry’ in recent days after being re-housed in the hotel, an activist told the Telegraph.

The attacker stabbed six people, including a hotel receptionist and handyman, as well as an unarmed police officer who was the first on the scene. Police Scotland later named him as Constable David Whyte.

Police Scotland last night ruled out terrorism as a motive for the attack at the Park Inn Hotel in West George Street, Glasgow, just before 1pm yesterday."

Britain is a ruined country too terrified of its own shadow to defend its culture. It will, therefore, be replaced by cultures that don't share its now flabby, self-loathing, pandering, self-doubting lost sense of identity and shared social values.

It would be comical if it weren't so sad.

by Anonymousreply 16806/26/2020

Daniel Redhead, an asylum seeker from Grenada, had gone to the Park Inn Hotel to pick up some tobacco from a friend when the attacker went on a rampage.

He said: 'My friend was screaming help me, help me. I saw him trying to fight the guy off as he was stabbing him.

'The man's face was calm. He wasn't even angry. He left my friend there and stabbed another man on the step. There was blood everywhere, so much blood.'

Mr Redhead said the attacker had harassed one of his friends before, describing the attacker as a 'loner who spoke very little'.

by Anonymousreply 16906/26/2020

I thought R168 was joking, but the Telegraph has indeed reported it (the food part, at least):

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by Anonymousreply 17006/26/2020

Why hasn't the UK tried to force more integration over time? In Switzerland, for instance, the government deals blows to them constantly to try to discourage seperatism. And there has not been a major backlash from Muslims from these actions

Muslims are not allowed minarets in their mosques, Muslim students must shake their teachers' hands like all other students, Muslim girls are obliged to exercise and swim with boys like other students, mosques are not allowed foreign financial support, Imams who promote political unrest or even sexist Koran rhetoric are stripped of their residence status/citizenship and deported, etc

Its pretty hardcore. Why doesn't the UK do these kinds of things?

by Anonymousreply 17106/26/2020

The UK doesn't do these kinds of things because it has a tradition of sympathy for 'the underdog'.

The UK had the most beneficent empire in world history during the 19th century. But now in the last century it has either been paying billions in aid to the former colonies or FOOLISHLY paying the ex-colonists to live in Britain on a VERY generous welfare system.

by Anonymousreply 17206/26/2020

My little sister’s current longterm partner is an Egyptian Muslim. He’s a nice boy and well-educated (atheistic, it would seem), from a well-off family. He stays with my parents sometimes, they love him. I don’t have any complaints about how he treats my sis, and he’s expressed his wish to me about wanting to be a good equal partner to her in a Western way. As a person taken on his own merit he meets with my approval and causes me no consternation.

Even knowing all that, it’s horribly tense having him in the family in this climate. My parents dread my sister ever going to Cairo with him to live or even to visit in future, mostly because his father is a religious nutcase and has threatened to disown or do worse to his own son for dating a kuffah woman - and as for my sister, the threat is really too big. There’s also many of his relatives who would actively disapprove and protest, plus his handful of more devout Egyptian friends from childhood. Back in England both my sister and bf get stick from random strangers (almost always from Muslims...) about being out holding hands or something equally innocuous, just really disgusting awful abuse.

I don’t like feeling unsafe about my sister all the time, to the point I’d rather this guy were out of her life as much as we all like him. To be honest we’re all just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for them to break up, as much as they’re good together and sad as that would be.

Lately I’ve even taken to avoiding any obviously non-integrated Muslims I see out and about just on reflex, where before I would not have been the type. This whole situation is enough to make you weep, but the time for that is long past and I think there’ll be bloody civil fallout before long. We are a small island of proud people in a tight community, even if our establishment are determined to erode that. There will be pushback at some point soon.

by Anonymousreply 17306/26/2020

The truth is that Muslims truly are several hundred years behind Western Europe.

They have religious officers in government, religious police, ban anything and everything that may contradict Islamic belief, and most importantly, believe that anyone who leaves the religion or says anything against Islam must be killed.

There is NO freedom of thought, press, expression, etc. They are literally not allowed to think differently and if they go against it, they will receive heavy penalties - threats of violence or death. And it is allowed.

That's worse than a god damn cult. How do you integrate people from this type of environment, when integrating into it makes you an enemy to your people and religion?

by Anonymousreply 17406/26/2020

When a people say they want to kill you, believe them.

- A Holocaust survivor's answer to the question: "What is the lesson to be learned from the Holocaust?"

by Anonymousreply 17506/26/2020

The Danes have also instituted a harsh program of Integration or Leave, with stiff penalties for families whose children aren't allowed to learn Danish quickly and fluently, and very stringent tests in Danish about Danish language and history to get naturalisation. The French also emphasise integration but aren't good at enforcing it. They also have one of the larger North African populations in Europe, and larger numbers make enforcement difficulty and encourage large enclaves of people who can live in two countries: the host country and their ethnic one.

Britain's mistake was to go for multiculturalism rather than integration, a mistake most government and social agencies, behind the scenes, now admit has had dire consequences for the England, particularly.

America has done a much better job on the assimilation of immigrants. It may take a generation or two, but my friends in America are entirely second generation Americans of Irish, Italian, Jewish (one of Polish, the other of Romanian), and Hungarian descent. They all had first-generation American parents born here to immigrants with heavy accents. They are all secular with the occasional nod (weddings, funerals, baptisms) to their respective religions ancestry. They consider themselves Americans, they feel like Americans, they spoke only English at home although they picked up a smattering of the argot of their parents' first languages. The parents were determined that the children should be "real Americans" and that's what they are.

Latinos have lagged somewhat in this, it may take an extra generation or so, but they aren't a monolithic bloc, either; ditto many (not all) the Muslims coming in now. The ones from Iran tend to be quite sophisticated and are fleeing intellectual repression; the ones from places like Somalia tend to be more belligerent about "retaining our heritage".

One of my American compadres, who believes tribalism is the root of all evil, thinks the way to go is what he called, somewhat but not entirely humourously, "Ethnicity Lite". I think he has a point.

A sense of identity is a nice thing; it's why adoptees become obsessed with finding their "real" parents, and why being mixed race can present emotional problems, and I think explains the success of those ancestry DNA reports so many people do nowadays.

But it's one thing to relate to the sound of bagpipes or Russian music or God Save the Queen and another to have identity depend on pushing back against an "Other" - the latter, I think, is what is happening politically. Political affiliation has replaced religion and I don't think it's a good exchange.

I support my friend's Ethnicity Lite suggestion. On a recent trip to New York, having breakfast with him and his friends on the Upper West Side, the discussion came up yet again, and the descendant of Romanian Jews (his grandparents got out one jump ahead of the Third Reich - a classic story of a family member on the Lower East Side) said, "I'd be happy to forget I was Jewish if only the rest of the world would let me." This got a rueful laugh around the table.

Britain hasn't had the spine to insist that its formerly coherent culture (stop boiling Britain down to 200 years of colonialism) is a worthwhile thing to have. As mentioned above, the country (particularly Tony Blair, whose silence on the recent havoc "diversity" is wreaking has been deafening) just threw the chips in the air without any plan for where and how they landed.

I'm waiting for the BLM crowd to demand that the beloved Peter Pan statue in Kensington Gardens be pulled down because of Tiger Lily. They probably don't know that the royalties from this much loved magical children's book supports the Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital.

The baby went out with the bathwater. An emphasis on assimilation with nods to Ethnicity-Lite, which I think is what America did more successfully (I don't say there were no bumps, just ask the Irish, Italians, and Jews), would have been far better.

by Anonymousreply 17606/27/2020

R176 - the assimilation of other Europeans into American society is hardly a huge leap - by and large they were Christian and white. That's not a huge stretch.

Muslims are immigrating with no intention of assimilation and think Western society is inferior. Trust me, Westerners would not be allowed to move into THEIR countries and do whatever they want.

There has to be some surveillance and kicking the religious fanatics out. Fanatacism of any kind is not going to assimilate just by its nature.

When I see undercover video clips of these anti-UK imams, you have to ask why the fuck did we invite these people in and, more importantly, why are they allowed to stay?

by Anonymousreply 17706/27/2020

Is there a way to dissolve and chop the knees of fanaticism without having to go to war with it? Or is all out confrontation the only way?

I’m no BNP member (maybe a little nationalistic but not xenophobically or racistly so) but I’m becoming more and more worried for my culture (yes, we do have one) and my home.

by Anonymousreply 17806/27/2020

R178 - Demmed if I know. I have a sinking feeling that that horse is in the next county by now. And to be honest. Englishness as a culture seems too tired to defend itself.

Re the BNP, the awful thing about how all this has gone, and the sense of how much has been lost, is that I'm sure it has resulted in there being many people out there silently thinking to themselves that the BNP was right, Ray Honeyford was right (who shouldn't be lumped with the BNP anyway, he was trying to help immigrant kids not kick them out), Enoch Powell was right, and if they had it do over, they'd vote differently. They can't speak up because someone else now has control of the narrative and they'll be vilified.

You can't even express a sense of cultural loss without being lumped with the BNP.

So, I have no idea what the way forward is - even someone with Johnson's brass doesn't have the guts to confront the issue.

I'm also older than many of you (I suspect, anyway) so I remember a much more English England, which wasn't without its flaws but also wasn't without its charms, uniqueness, and endearing character.

Your guess is as good as mine.

by Anonymousreply 17906/27/2020

J'adore this thread.

by Anonymousreply 18006/27/2020

"You can't even express a sense of cultural loss without being lumped with the BNP."

What has England lost culturally?

"I remember a much more English England"

England is still ~83% white. Yes, there are Asians and Black people. If you didn't want this many, perhaps Britain should never have had their empire. And should not have invited them after WW2.

Perhaps they'd be more integrated had they not experienced such horrific racism when they then took sailboats to come to your island.

Can you not hear yourself, r179?

by Anonymousreply 18106/27/2020

R181 Do you have anything helpful to suggest?

by Anonymousreply 18206/27/2020

R181 had to come along and shit on a thoughtful thread. Go yell at yourself in the mirror, useless American cunt.

by Anonymousreply 18306/27/2020

Contrary to early reports, the only person who died was the attacker (who was shot by a police officer). Badreddin Abadlla Adam sounds like the name of a panto villain. You give a kid a name with "bad" in it twice, you can't complain if he grows up to stab people.

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by Anonymousreply 18406/27/2020

R181 - I should have counted down to the tired, dog-eared "Empire" excuse and the complete obliviousness to what has happened to England since the end of WWII.

You listen to yourself. Or try googling an article called "The Unmaking of England".

The Cockneys are gone from "Multicultural London" and their language will be gone from the capital according to a study by a linguistics expert, by mid-century.

An Imam in Luton got a publicly supported swimming bath's sessions changed to feature only separate male and female ones. He insisted that underneath it all, this is what women really want, anyway, to be free of the leering male gaze. Since Luton is 30% Muslim by now, they couldn't muster enough opposition to change his medieval restructuring.

In Southwark, 1 in 20 girls are at risk of FGM, because the Somali community still doesn't think it needs to become English in England - just take the bennies and tell the host culture to fuck off.

Blackface on Guy Fawkes Day, a custom used to prevent identification and thus arrest for mischief on the night? Can't have that.

Historical white figures played by nonwhites? No problem, no matter how ridiculous or out of whack or dramatically and/or historically wrong it is. But try ever again casting a white Othello - who is, by the way, also part of English heritage: the creation of a white Anglo-Saxon 16th century writer - arguably the greatest in the English language. Who owns Othello? The man who wrote it and the culture that man emerged from, or the character?

Archbishop of Canterbury comes out and says "we" (which really means white English people) "need" to start "re-imagining" Jesus as nonwhite - because after all people in Fiji, China, and Africa imagine Him as looking like them. It's only questionably when white people do it, and after all, He was Middle Eastern. Yes, He was: he was a Semite, and it may have escaped His Nibs' notice that the Semites, for all their "swarthy" complexions and big noses, are part of the Caucasoid DNA group - like Indians, Arabs, Greeks, etc.

It goes on and on and on. The tail is wagging the dog. In 1965, London was still a great English capital. Now, it's just another multikulti mess.

And those empire folk couldn't wait to get into what they knew perfectly well was an overwhelmingly white country. They were banging the doors down trying to get in. Everyone wanted to come to English England - and then turn it into something else.

Did you happen to see the photo of the men congratulating Saidq Khan on his win over that Jew Zac Goldsmith?

Do you remember the riots in Bradford in Yorkshire in the last 1980s when they burned Salman Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses"?

Bookburnings in the streets - in late 20th century England, with its astonishing literary heritage and reverence for the written word.

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining or start whining about the Empire.

Churchill's statue? Well, shit - he was the only reason Britain's black and Jews didn't end up where the rest of Europe's did. He may not have thought nice thoughts, but then neither did FDR, who got American through WWII and brought in Social Security.

by Anonymousreply 18506/27/2020

R184 - the most hilarious comment on that Twitter feed is the first one asking if there was a connection to white supremacy - the perp was a Sudanese asylum refugee.

Oh, the six people were only stabbed, not killed? Well then, they have no right to be upset. After all, they could have been in Reading on the day, instead.

by Anonymousreply 18606/27/2020

Just to clarify - my post at R184 refers to the Glasgow stabbings. The three victims of the Reading attacker did indeed die. I suspect the initial media reports that three people had been killed in Glasgow were the result of confusion between the two incidents.

by Anonymousreply 18706/27/2020

The first Muslim Pride ( seriously ) just took place in London. Check out the cool signs LOL

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by Anonymousreply 18806/28/2020

Khairi Saadallah has been given a whole-life term for the murders

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by Anonymousreply 18901/11/2021
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