Ian Holm is DEAD TO ME

Ignore that knighted comment.

I'm not much interested in short people, nevertheless, I read his 330 page memoir.

It dealt with, at length, about all his sundry psychiatric issues, all his unhappinesses, his abuse of his four wives (one of whom was Penelope Wilton). There were no shiny moments, no mindless theatrical anecdotes, and not much insight into the process of bringing life to other people's scripts.

And so, after all those 330 pages, I didn't feel in any way more disposed towards this actor.

Well, R2, he was a great actor, so who cares? As for not being interested in short people, I assume you're very interested in stupid people, being one yourself.

What was his greatest performance?

Who were some of his lovers?

He was a good actor, of course. But I can't imagine getting excited about taking him to bed.

R6, I'm sure he would not have been very excited to be taken to bed by you, either.

He was perfectly cute enough in his day.

I lost so many loads to him in Alien :(

[Quote] I'm sure he would not have been very excited to be taken to bed by you, either.

Well, no. I believe he was one of those heterosexuals.

He was still alive? It is a shock that George Chakiris has outlived Holm.

He seemed like an evil gay in 'Alien' before the android reveal.

He was really hot in 1979!

My point exactly, R9.

R10, George Chakiris still being alive isn't hard t believe. He's not Dame Olivia, after all.

R10 - Take heart, Chakiris troll: James Darren, now 84, is nipping at 85-year-old Chakiris' heels. Chakiris is a vegetarian and has that lean dancer's body that probably withstands the ravages of time better than most. I saw a photo of him dated 2019. He looks old, but he looks good.

At this rate, only Queen Elizabeth II and her husband will outlive Chakiris.

I haven't read Holm's memoir but what poster upthread revealed about its contents isn't surprising. There was always something "not nice" about Holm (de mortuis and all that). His best role was the quietly murderous android in "Alien".

He was pretty terrible in The Sweet Hereafter. His annoying character ruined the film for me.

You queens have never heard of THE HOMECOMING? It was both a play and a movie written by the great playwright Harold Pinter, and Holm was great in it. He won a Tony for his role and repeated the role in the film.

"Not nice"? Oh no! That covers 90% of DL cunts who have no discernible talent. What a vapid thread this--hardly surprising.

What has talent got to do with treating people poorly?

Exactly--nothing. My point, R16. An artist is one thing and a person is another. His "not being nice" is completely irrelevant. And the ones accusing this dead guy of "not being nice" never fucking met him.

R4 In The Sweet Hereafter followed by Another Woman.

R15 Pinter was the man of the moment in the 1960s.

Then he became middle-aged, middle-class and a little less interesting.

And while his wife was committing suicide, Pinter married a rich, Laura Ashley-type, aristocratic woman while still claiming to be 'a peace activist'. I don't think he wrote any scripts over his last 30 years.

Holm's 3rd wife was Penelope Wilton (who, of course, starred opposite Maggie Smith in 'Downton').

Penelope Wilton is a niece of the late Bill Travers (who was a sexy hunk in the 1950s) and his sister Linden Travers (who starred in one of Hitchcock's classics 'The Lady Vanishes').

"An artist is one thing and a person is another. His "not being nice" is completely irrelevant."

Oh please. He was only an actor that doesn't excuse his shifty behavior. Actors are a dime a dozen.

Boy, R19, are you full of misinformation. Not that it matters--Pinter's reputation will last. He certainly wrote "scripts" in the last 30 years of his life, and his miserable first marriage ended, by the way, long before his first wife drank herself to death. That second wife you condescendingly refer to is a prize-winning biographer.

R21, actors aren't artists? What a moron you are. His "shifty" behavior, if it existed, is none of your fucking business.

He was adorable in Chariots of Fire when he punches through his straw hat in joy after his track protege wins a race.

[Quote] His "shifty" behavior, if it existed, is none of your fucking business.

Did he not write a memoir?

So, R24? It's your judgment of him I'm calling bullshit on.

Harold Pinter's 'The Homecoming' had an excellent season of ten months on Broadway in 1967. And 'Otherwise Engaged' also did ten months in 1976. 'Betrayal' did 6 months but all the others couldn't sustain 3 months. There have been no new Pinter scripts on Broadway for 38 years.

R26, Pinter's last play was Celebration in 1997. His last screenplay was written in 2007. He died in 2008. Therefore, he was writing scripts almost until he died.

I enjoyed Holm's performances in [bold]The Man in the Iron Mask[/bold] (1977), [bold]Jesus of Nazareth[/bold] (1977), [bold]Alien[/bold] (1979), [bold]Time Bandits[/bold] (1981), [bold]Hamlet[/bold] (1990), [bold]Naked Lunch[/bold] (1991), [bold]Mary Shelley's Frankenstein[/bold] (1994), [bold]The Fifth Element[/bold] (1997), [bold]From Hell[/bold] (2001), and as Bilbo Baggins in Peter Jackson's [bold]Lord of the Rings[/bold] ('Fellowship' and 'Return'), as well as in Parts 1 & 3 of [bold]The Hobbit[/bold].

That's been a lot of entertainment. Decades' worth. Thanks, Mr Holms.

I would add, R26, a revival of a Pinter play appears on Broadway every year or two, with regularity.

[Quote] So, [R24]? It's your judgment of him I'm calling bullshit on.

Judgment of what he laid bare for the world to see?

I saw DL fave Danny Dyer in a revival of "The Homecoming." The woman in it was dire.

Yeah, R30. Because it's no one else's business. Do you feel we all have a right to judge you for every shitty thing you've done?

[Quote] Yeah, [R30]. Because it's no one else's business. Do you feel we all have a right to judge you for every shitty thing you've done?

Have I charged people to read about my shitty exploits?

Who asked you to either buy his book or read it, R33?

Vivien Merchant (Mrs Pinter) makes a nice contrast to him in this short Pinter scene.

He did specialise in playing churlish, minatory, pursey, small men.

He's very cute there.

35 posts and no one mentioned Holm's cheesiest role as Belgian explorer Phillippe d'Arnot saved from murderous natives by Christophe Lambert aka Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes.

R37 What do you mean by 'cheesey'?

R37, Holm's appearance in that movie did not make it the debacle it was.

Yeah, what, R37? I'm with R38.

Holm did Greystoke for the pay packet, not the artistic merit.

[Quote] Who asked you to either buy his book or read it, [R33]?

Ian Holm, I should think.

No, Ian Holm did not personally ask anyone to buy and read his book. It really is about free will, I should think, R42.

[Quote] No, Ian Holm did not personally ask anyone to buy and read his book

Did Ian Holm personally do interviews to promote his book? The book that he was paid to write by a publisher?

Did he, R44? Maybe. That still doesn't translate as exerting force, coercion or any other form of manipulation to make anyone buy and read his book.

R41 I would think Holm did all his films for the pay packet, not artistic merit. He was a proper actor— and by that I mean an actor who appears on stage.

He appeared in lots of supporting film roles though R14 praises two films that I've never heard of where he seems to have played a leading role.

[Quote] That still doesn't translate as exerting force, coercion or any other form of manipulation to make anyone buy and read his book.

Is it permissible for those who bought his book to form an opinion of him based on what he himself revealed in said book?

Sure, R47, it's as permissible as it is meaningless. Opinions are, as you know, like assholes--everyone has one.

[Quote] Opinions are, as you know, like assholes

That explains why you attend to them so fervently.

So, he wrote a warts-and-all memoir saying he himself was a jerk. And then other people say, Wow, he was a jerk. I'd say he got there first.

Aw, R49, just because you can't win an argument, you get all bitchy.

He was 5'5".

So that's shorter than Penelope Wilton, Alan Ladd, and Daniel Radcliffe but taller than Mickey Rooney.

What an insight, R52.

[Quote] Aw, [R49], just because you can't win an argument, you get all bitchy.

You made an argument that Holm's behavior is none of anyone's fucking business when he wrote a memoir detailing his poor behavior... Let's not throw stones from glass houses.

Dylan Sprayberry IS Ian Holm!

And it isn't anyone's business, R54. It's only the business of the people who were directly affected by his behavior, not anyone else. And that includes you. Opinions, including yours, are a dime a dozen.

Well, I'm COMPLETELY turned off by Peter O'Toole after I found out about his drunken abuse of wife Sian Phillips.

But he was only a film actor whereas the late Ian Holm had the bigger trauma of appearing on stage.

"had the bigger trauma of appearing on stage."

Huh? Trauma?

Peter O'Toole was hardly "only a film actor." He appeared on stage before and after his movie stardom.

R58 Ian Holm felt something was going wrong in The Iceman Cometh in 1976 .

...“the moment arrived when I knew I would not be able to continue”. He addressed the audience: “Here I am, supposed to be talking to you… there are you, expecting me to talk…” He got off the stage, past the other actors, “frozen in a kind of tableau”. He arrived in the dressing room, unable even to walk. “The black curtain which slowly cowled my brain had become a complete hood.”

He did not act on stage for nearly 15 years.

I know that, R60. But how does that relate to his behavior? Are you saying his dubious conduct came from the trauma of stage fright? I don't see the point you're trying to make.

R61 You need to read the 330 page memoir.

That's not an answer, R62.

I actually find it quite admirable of Ian Holm to share his warts-and-all life story with people. What seems to be lost on people here is that he knew he behaved badly and was willing to tell the world that--meaning he recognized what he did and by writing about it was atoning for it.

Of course, none of that has any bearing on his artistry--another thing that's lost on people here.

Did he atone by sending his ex wives some of the profits?

I don't know--did he, R65? R65 thinks reparations are in order, apparently.

This thread is a fucking garbage fire. Who spends hours scolding people for reading an autobiography and having an opinion about it?

I don't know, R67--who spends hours attacking a dead man?

Loved him in Time Bandits and the Sweet Hereafter.

Put the troll on ignore and most of the thread is gone.

We really do have trolls trying to derail even innocuous threads now.

Yeah, that would really make this thread sing!

Ahhh...has anyone seen Lowry?! HAS ANYONE SEEN SAM LOWRY?

"What seems to be lost on people here is that he knew he behaved badly and was willing to tell the world that--meaning he recognized what he did and by writing about it was atoning for it."

Wel, if he did abuse his wives, I don't think we should applaud him just for writing about it.

That said, he was a great actor. Loved him in Chariots of Fire and The Sweet Hereafter

Who's applauding him for that, R73? Jesus Christ, what a bunch of freaking pompous Marys there on this thread.

No, not Bilbo!

Uh, the post I quoted was applauding him.

R.I.P.

ALIEN and LOTR will always be dear to me.

Uh, I know, R76. I wrote what you quoted. I'm commenting on what you said.

Yeah, and I was quoting someone who applauded him, something you claimed no one was doing.

Where did I claim that, R79? I can't be bothered to look.

This thread reads like a bitchy Covent Garden dinner party.

^ Theatre is a small, bitchy, competitive profession and Ian Holm was a headache to cast on stage. He was OK playing romance scenes with Judi Dench but playing against Vanessa Redgrave would be a disaster!

He was great as Lewis Carroll in Dreamchild

DL only ever seems to talk about actresses. I'm surprised there hasn't been any talk of his lovers. Are any of them Dames?

^ His 3rd wife, Penelope wilton, was 'damed' after he discarded her.

I agree he was especially good in "Dreamchild". Also, as Joe Gould...

He did act with Vanessa Redgrave in David Hare's "Wetherby". Dench was also in the cast.

Shoulda been nominated - and won - for The Sweet Hereafter.

At least he was Oscar-nominated for his supporting role in "Chariots of Fire".

He did a good job playing athletic trainer Sam Mussabini.

What a shame. His 007 books were the bee’s knees.

You’re right.

He was also great as Gandalf.

Don't forget All About Eve and the original stage production of Oklahoma!

He looks like Daniel from Sean Cody if you've got cataracts or if you squint.

[quote] He was pretty terrible in The Sweet Hereafter. His annoying character ruined the film for me.

He was decent in that movie. The dumb cunt that played his daughter was horrible.

R86 Yes, you're right he appeared alongside short Judi Dench and the giant Vanessa Redgrave in 'Wetherby'. But that is a movie which uses elevating cameras and the performers wear flat heels and escalating heels.

It becomes ludicrous when seen on stage which is a VISUAL medium and the lead actor's shortness has to be accommodated by the rest of the cast.

This twitter (below) from Samuel West said the short Ian Holm made Shakespeare's 'King Lear' look like a convention of garden gnomes.

Ian Holm was great in 1971 film Mary, Queen of Scots as the bisexual David Riccio .

R93 I take it back: he wasn't really terrible but he was totally miscast. That role obviously called for a classic leading man and let's face it: Mr. Holm, as talented as he was, didn't have what it takes to carry a movie. A character actor like him would be better suited to play one of the crazy citizens of that Canadian hick town.

Holm would have made a good footstool.

The set for his King Lear

Well that's too bad. I hope his passing was quick and painless. I don't have anything witty or bitchy to say, I never read his autobiography. I just always liked his work and thought he was a very, very good actor. I'll watch something of his this week and remember what a terrific talent he was for so many decades.

I am R2 and it seems I'm the only one who survived reading his deathly, coruscating, self-hating 330 page memoir.

I imagine he had an awful life. Anthony Hopkins saved himself from alcoholism but Holm's life seemed like he was a human rag determined to mess up the lives of those around him.

He was Old Bilbo Baggins, not Gandalf.

Ian Holm may have refused a knighthood. There are those who do so out of political opposition to the monarchy.

Sir Ian Holm Cuthbert CBE

1. Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) in 1989

2. Knight Bachelor for services to drama in1998:

[quote] This thread reads like a bitchy Covent Garden dinner party.

I think, R81, that this thread reads like a Harold Pinter.

R52 He was shorter than his wife and Daniel Radcliffe.

But he was the same height as Audie Murphy.