Why Do So Many Gay Men Hate the Word "Queer'?

It's because it was a slur used against us for such a long time. At first, I didn't like it. Now, I use it because I'm garbage with acronyms and constantly forget which letters are part of LGBT+ now.

DL skews old.

Do you identify as "queer", OP?

Did you and/or your friends constantly say "that's so GAY" when you were teenagers?

r3 No to both questions. I identify as gay because I am. If my sexuality was more fluid, I wouldn't have any issue identifying as queer, though.

I am gay, not "queer". It's that simple. Queer is supposedly a more "inclusive" name that includes gay, bi, trans, pan, etc. I'm just fucking gay, keep it simple stupid.

Queer = trans bullshit.

Anyone who thinks putting on a dress magically turns a male into a female is definitely queer in the head.

How "fluid" would your sexuality have to be to cross the line over to Queer™, though?

This is one where I truly understand both points of view.

Queer is U, gay is non-U ... and the trendy who do vague hippityhop things with their fingers when taking selfies.

Gay refers to men who affirm being attracted to men. It works fine.

Queer was a slur for decades. DECADES.

Younger generations think they are so cool to rehabilitate it and include anyone who is not "straight" as "queer". Fine. But it doesn't mean GAY. Gay men.

Are they rehabilitating spic, dago, wop, guinee, chink, etc?

[quote] vague hippityhop things

R9 is so old she farts dust

I'm young and I hate that word. Every guy I know that describes himself has emotional issues and is trying to seem even more "special". You're attracted to guys and you're a guy, well you're fuckin gay then. No need to make it more complicated.

R12, right, it's like a badge of honor for people to call themselves "queer" now. Didn't village idiot Jameela Jamil even come out as queer recently? Fuck that.

Yep, “queer” was a slur they wanted us to use, and it wasn’t fair that we preferred “gay” instead. WE WERE STEALING THEIR WORDS!!!

r5 I'm gay, not queer also. I'm just not angry about it when somebody says they're queer.

r7 If my interest included men, women, trans men, trans-women and non-binary people.

I find the word offensive. I grew up hearing that word in a negative way so I'm not about to just accept it. Also the modern idea of 'queer' is meaningless. It doesn't mean gay anymore so it's not anything I want to do with.

[quote]Why Do So Many Gay Men Hate the Word "Queer'?

I don't really think they do. The typical DL respondents who flip out every time either the word or the subject of the word comes up are indulging in a species of trolling. This is evident because, no matter how many times it's been explained that the word was reclaimed decades ago by gays and by those in academia, none of them ever learn another point of view, or acclimate to information of which they were previously unaware. The periodic recurrence of this topic is just another occasion to express outrage, to troll. The subject is kept alive by trolls.

But wouldn't "pansexual" cover what you're describing, R15?

Maybe because most gays out there are not gays in academica and don't give a shit about how gays in academia "reclaimed" the word?

It's also used by straight people, including nonbinaries who want the mystique of being gay or bisexual without actually having to suck cock or get gay married.

R17 is our resident tranny troll, here to tell us all how to think

[quote]the word was reclaimed decades ago by gays

R19, read it again. Not just academia, but gay folks.

Nobody gives a shit about the word except those who like cultivating outrage.

Also r17 you M.O.d 25% of the topics on DL, which are trollings .....

I've never liked the word "gay," as if I should be flighty or tripping through the tulips. But I'm not sad enough to make a thread about it. Get off my lawn, oldsters (and those who are similarly crotchety.)

"Queer" is hurtful. harmful and term of derisiveness. "Queer" is insulting. I don't want to own it, embrace it or use it. I hate the word and have no intention of using it.

Except for infrequent uses in rap songs, blacks generally did not embrace the word "nigger." It simply became off limits, and now the word is rarely used and most of the time referred to as the "n-word." They don't even say the full word. And yes, I realize the "nigger" and "queer" are not the same thing and have different histories. But I hate the word "queer" and don't intend to use even for those who like the word.

The word "queer" needs to be relegated to ash heap of history. It's insulting and disgusting.

The n word is very commonly used among black people.

[quote] Nobody gives a shit about the word except those who like cultivating outrage

I'm not outraged by it. I would just never want to be called that myself. If others want to be called that, fine. Just call me gay and we'll be fine.

[quote]Also [R17] you M.O.d 25% of the topics on DL, which are trollings ...

Try restating that in English.

We replaced "queer" long ago with "nellie prisspot."

[Quote] Just call me gay and we'll be fine.

You don't have a forename?

R30, my bad 🤣. Just don't refer to me as "queer" and we will be fine.

.....because, fat bitch.

Excuse me, that's Fat Whore to you!

Queer is intact and gay is mutilated... and the trendy ones who make their peens go hippityhop when they take dickpics.

We're light in our loafers.

Musical.

[quote]I'm not outraged by it. I would just never want to be called that myself.

R27, I couldn't care less if I'm called 'queer,' even if it's intended as an epithet, which is kind of rare these days. Epithets say more about the people who use them than they do about the ones being labeled. R21, for example, says nothing about me, but instead identifies himself as one of the far-right anti-trans trolls.

I think it's a good thing that people can have an open conversation about boundaries. How they want to be addressed, how they, identify, which community they feel close to, etc.

And in the end it will all sort itself out when the confrontational dickheads will be shunned like the plague while the ones who respect each other's boundaries get to have a pleasant social life.

I'm gay...and proud to be a gay man.

Like others have written, queer is a slur to me. It's offensive.

R26. The-n-word may be used among some blacks; however, for various reasons, it is said in humor, in camaraderie, in anger, as an insult, etc. But it is not used by all blacks, and it is not accepted by society as a whole, nor is anyone encouraged to use it. In fact, some may use it at their own peril. Blacks are not trying to own the word "nigger" the way some gays want us to own "queer." I have no intention of owning the word "queer." I refuse to use it. "Queer" is an awful, harmful word.

“Queer” is a vague word. It might mean anything. I prefer specificity.

I quite like "homo" but I realize for some of you who've been through shock therapy etc. that word wounds.

[quote] “Queer” is a vague word. It might mean anything

Yes, this is why I hate it. It's an umbrella term. Apparently, it's so vague, even straight celebs like Jameela Jamil can call themselves queer and be accepted.

How do we know Jameela is straight?

How about Sissy or Pansy or Degenerate? Gay is so gay. God I don't like any of the words. We need a word like Lesbian. Yeah I know there's always Homosexual.

Queer is offensive. It's insulting. It's a very negative word. At the very least, it sounds like you're some sort of freak. Bury that fucking word. I don't want to take it back or own it. Make it forbidden to say it or call a group of people that harmful word.

Can you gay guys all go out and join a BLM protest? You need to get pout more.

[Quote] We need a word like Lesbian.

What about "Lane"?

OP: Do you have enough reasons now why the word "queer" is an offensive, insulting piece of shit word and should never be used to refer to gays.

[quote] Meredith Baxter Birney Dexter Rowan

I LOL'ed at that one.

Like the old saying goes: We are here, we are queer, get used to it.

Looks like trolls and haters still are not used to it.

Don't you just love it, some tranny telling gays & lesbians how we should THINK!

Kindly fuck off, Poisoned Drag Goon, don't you have a fake vagina that needs dilating?

Queer is up there with faggot and the n word. I hate it.

I go back and forth on it. Growing up, queer was a slur, so it still stings a bit every now and then. I also think it's a convenient way for people who aren't gay, lesbian, bi, or trans to pretend they are in order to feel special. If you're a woman married to a man and have 4 kids, I really don't care that you kissed a girl once in high school. You're not part of our group. People living as out and proud gay, lesbian, bi, and trans people run the risk of being hurt or discriminated against every day and you're over here living a normal breeder life in suburbs with no fear of someone beating you up or calling you names. Something about that rubs me the wrong way.

I've been in the presence of people who didn't know my sexuality and they made ignorant comments. Would my experience be so different if I'd been married to the opposite sex while hearing people spew ignorance in my earshot. Do we have to enter oppression olympics?

I agree that gay is probably the most accurate description of a man who is physically and romantically attracted only to other men, and that "queer" not only can be confusing, but was, for decades, derogatory to gays; however, I embrace the term queer because I feel it takes the hate and power away for gay men to use it. Also, for some reason, I kind of like the sound of it. To me, it means I'm not like you, or anyone else for that matter. that being said, I don't think I've ever used it in conversation or had the chance to describe myself with that term. Usually, if I am just talking about my life to someone who doesn't know me, I would just work my husband into the conversation and they'd get the drift. I think I'm pretty easy to figure out, however there have been instances when that wasn't the case. I'm waiting for an opportunity to call myself "queer", so maybe next time some vendor I have to meet with thinks my being friendly means I'm trying to pick her up (which happened recently), I will work into the conversation that I am as queer as a 3 dollar bill.

Very interesting post. It seems that many of us are deeply offended by the word “queer”, and it’s absolutely valid.

I’ve wondered about the word and, honestly, I don’t know If I’m offended by it. Not trying to be flippant and definitely not waiting for some of you to pour down their wrath on me for typing that. I do know that when I’m with certain gay friends we always toast to “cheers, queers” and it’s amusing to us. That’s it.

People have the right to choose how they identify. Gay or Queer. Queers can't demand gays call themselves queer the same way gays can't demand queers to stop identifying as queers.

This "using the word queer when I'm around is literal violence!" drama is all trolling mocking so-called triggered snowflakes.

R56 Yes, that is a toast I've heard before as well... Also the TV series [italic] Queer As Folk [/italic] and the slogan of ACT UP "We're here; we're queer; get used to it".

I understand how some older people are offended by the term. I actually used the term for ages to mean odd, or strange, but had to break myself using it. It provoked far too many misunderstandings living in the US.

I appreciate both Poisoned Dragon's and Bonnie Prince Charlie's thoughts. It would appear some of us have co-opted the formerly pejorative as something quite different, and inclusive. I think I might be comfortable using the word around younger people (I'm 50) however I'm still conscious of it's harm to older men's feelings.

I wish more us could consider intent when acting so reactionary to certain words. In truth, not everyone is willfully attempting to slur others all of the time.

I’M NOT A QUEER! I’M A COCKSUCKER!

There's the old association with gay-bashing, which BTW, you'd think the fucking snowflakes would treat with some respect. They're so determined to protect half the world from ever having their feelings hurt under any circumstances, but they're okay with reminding generations of gay men of the bad old days when it was legal and accepted to beat the shit out of us?

But mainly, I hate the term, because it's so vague! if someone says "I'm coming out as QUEER", you have no idea if they mean "Ask me for a date, hunty", or "I'm wearing lacy panties under my khakis", or "Being straight and white at a liberal arts college sucks".

[Quote] But mainly, I hate the term, because it's so vague! if someone says "I'm coming out as QUEER", you have no idea if they mean "Ask me for a date, hunty", or "I'm wearing lacy panties under my khakis", or "Being straight and white at a liberal arts college sucks".

I think you're lying. You believe it's the last option.

(Someone can claim gay and it not be true... I guess queer lies prick you more...)

Possibly because some gay men have a conditioned response to the word as it was used while they were being hit with a two-by-four.

Queer sounds too much like Weird.

Gay sounds too fey.

I'm more offended by the word HOMOSEXUAL.

I bet it was a straight man who came up with THAT word.

'Queer' is for straight, cis, white (mostly) SJWs who want a seat at the intersectional table. "I'm an ally, give me a cookie..."

[quote]Queer is up there with faggot and the n word. I hate it.

I agree. Fuck off with that word. We don't want it. It's offensive and insulting.

Two reasons:

As R1 points out, "queer" was used as a slur against many of us when being bullied. It's difficult to disassociate the pain/trauma caused by that bullying when we hear the word "queer".

For a community that says it hates labels, there sure is a lot of energy put into labeling and categorizing our members.

[quote] If my sexuality was more fluid. . .

Oh dear.

I'd be so happy if you was queer.

People who identify as "Queer" usually believe in TWAW/TMAM, "gendered brains", "male vagina", "female penis"... And other tranny bullshit... Also, they're narcissists as hell, as much trans people.

This term became so vague and "inclusive" that even heterosexual people (not to mention the "trans gay men" and "trans lesbians") now use...

i.e huge red flag, I hate with passion and avoid all people who call themselves that.

R65 = Tranny licker. Most people who don't like this term are homophobic trannies and TRAs. Homosexual as well as Heterosexual, are perfectly valid sexual orientations/descriptors.

Because I have nothing in common with “queers.”

It’s the same reason I’m not part of the “LGBTQ” community.

Or put it simply, I wouldn’t call myself a lesbian.

I’m a gay man. I’m gay. I’m not “queer.” To me, definitions matter and the world isn’t a spectrum of grays.

Queer is still used as a slur. I should know. Fuck that word and those that use it.

I’m in my mid-50s so I’m old. I can out 15 years after Stonewall not 50 years. The idea that Supreme Court protections against employment discrimination or for marriage equality was a fantasy. I definite myself as a gay man. I feel connected to lesbian women in the struggle we engaged in. I feel some connection to bisexual persons though I have met many who take the easy route by passing as straight but engaging in same sex encounters on the sly. I support protections for trans persons but I feel their issues are parralllel but not the same as gays and lesbians. If folks want to call themselves queer fine. That is not who I am and it is not a term that captures the complex nuances and real differences experienced by gays, lesbians, bi, and trans persons. The commonality I guess is anti-straight. To me that is not sufficiently alike and erases the differences in realities of different parts of LGBT communities — plural not singular. We are more a confederation than a centralized nation-state.

I'm curious now, why there are people who dislike "Homosexual" but like "Queer"? which is a slur and now being reclaimed back by T-pets?

When I hear the word "queer", I get visions of purple hair.

Too many straight girls use it to describe themselves. I’d like to be called a homo.

Queer is a pink haired obese female millennial SJW who got drunk and kissed a chick one night.

This is what I'm reminded of when I here the word "queer". When I was in middle school in the 70s, there was this odd out-of-place square cut into the pavement in our school courtyard. It was referred to as the "queer square" and was to be avoided at all costs. You didn't walk through it, lest you be called a queer. The bullies liked to shove the weak into it and then ridicule them for being a queer. Kids would toss loose change into it just to tempt someone to pick it up so they could laugh at the queer. One would make a wide path around it so as to not be possibly be caught dead in it. Except for this one kid named Jerry. He would gather up and pocket the loose change while the bullies hurled insults of "Queer!" at him. He didn't care. He may not have had any friends, but he had a pocket full of change. Jerry was apparently wiser than the rest of us. He realized the word "queer" only had power if you gave it power.

I'm guessing even when some gays attempted to "reclaim" the word, most didn't use it.

How about whiny faggots? That's what you all sound like.

Because queer is just an ambiguous word people use because they don't want to be a hetero ally, so they say it thinking it automatically makes them apart of the community. And all they've really done is have a drunk-one night stand with their friend, and have no intention of sleeping with the same sex again; or they did it a couple times in college with their roommate.

When I hear "Queer" I always think of the snark that people who identify as "Queer" are fat ugly straight girls with pink or blue hair and multiple piercings who are unfuckable by either sex. They're just trying to be interesting.

Queer was a non gender specific way of saying gay or lesbian. But also it described a gay person who identifies as a civil or political activist. In other words there were "gay men" and then there were "ANGRY gay men". The latter would identify as queer.

The "queer community" would march in the pride parades. So, not specifically gay or lesbian or all the subset categories. The Acronym LGBTQ took over and became more common and the term queer transitioned to describe academia, art, and politics.

I think because it was used as a pejorative term for so long. Also, the people associated with that word are shall we say a little out of the norm. Gender non binary and all that stuff.

[quote]We need a word like Lesbian.

Say it fast a few times and the word lesbian becomes an onomatopoeia of two women scissoring vigorously.

Be careful what you wish for r44. Lesbian come from Lesbos, so the equivalent for male homosexuals exist and is "sodomite" from Sodoma.

Queer right now means about everything " not straight" and is still offensive for some people so, I avoid it.

I dont think Ive ever been called a Queer in my entire life . Faggot ,on the other hand ,about 11 billion times . I hate Faggot much more than Queer .

(best) Gay - Homosexual - Queer - Fairy - Faggot (worst)

Sodomite comes from the city of Sodom, not Sodoma, whatever that is.

‘Queer’ is every bit as offensive as ‘faggot’ and ‘n- - -r’. Just because some assholes in academia, arts, activism, and media decided to reclaim it doesn’t mean that the rest of us just have to decide to not be offended by it and go along with it. If you think we should, I fucking dare you to say the same thing re: the N word to black people who don’t use it. Just because a segment of the black American population has reclaimed that word doesn’t mean that all members are onboard with it.

And of course I agree with all the reasons everyone has given in opposition to ‘queer’. Just be specific about what you’re into. Gay, lesbian, or bi. One of those will suffice, BELIEVE ME. And if you think that attraction to transsexuals makes you that different, why? Aren’t transwomen just women? Why does being attracted to them vault you into a different category? So GTFO with that.

I also resent the arts using the term to describe gay-themed movies, etc. Looking at you, Criterion and Film Forum. You’re not describing a movie that focuses on pansexuality or men who are into other men, and women, and transsexuals, or blue-haired straight SJWs. You’re describing gay- and lesbian-themed movies nearly 100% of the time.

I also like being able to use the word ‘queer’ to describe anything that’s just dorky or beyond goofy/stupid without it having any sexual connotation.

r91 I think Sodoma is in Arizona! They have fabulous bathhouses and strip clubs! Gambling and brothels are legal. Anything goes there!

Sodoma is in latin (spanish/italian/french/ etc)

r92 Clearly you're alone on your soapbox. The gay community to the word queer back, waaaaaaay back in the late 80s. I don't know what cave you've been living in for the past 35 years, but you may want to catch up with the rest of us!!!

R95, have you read the rest of the thread? I’m hardly the only one who’s saying these things. Did you even read what I wrote? What have I missed in the last 35 years? Is ‘queer’ officially no longer offensive? Is it the preferred identifying word for gay men now? Was a poll taken? Help me out here. What exactly are you implying.

Let Jackie Beat explain it to you....

r96 Ironically, you're actually a "Queer Activist" because you are so passionate about your position!!!

Joke's on you!

Militant homosexualist, thank you very much, R98.

I'm upset that people use queer in place of gay, online. Why should I stop using gay? To remind everyone that I'm different? I am just a normal person. I don't think that everyday straight people understand yet. But they understand gay.

I don't like "queer," but I've never liked "gay" either. Or "homosexual." I've never liked any of the words used to describe us.

I don’t really like “queer” but I respect people’s choice to identify that way. All I ask is that I be allowed to identify as “gay” without ever being called queer. My identity doesn’t roll up under some supposed “queer” umbrella. I don’t want to be called queer, even if it’s an umbrella term. In reality, if you identify as queer, you and I have never actually sat under the same umbrella.

r99. You see all the protests going on and the masses marching and chanting "BLACK LIVES MATTER". Well, imagine those were gay men and women and what they were chanting was

"WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USED TO IT!!!"

Your gay forefathers marched for YOUR civil rights and screamed that mantra in the streets and took the negative connotation back! They intentionally labeled cinema, literature, and art "QUEER"! They took back the negative power that the word held and ENERGIZED it. It worked. The word lost it's context.

They used the word to mobilize the gay community!!! It worked! Believe it or not, but the men and women didn't associate with each other. There were gay bars and lesbian bars. They stayed away from each other. Queer politics brought the men and women together to march and fight as one! And gay people screamed at the tops of their lungs:

"WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USED TO IT!!!"

And when the dust settled, the "Queer Community" was finally a cohesive TRIBE who had the same political goals! Civil rights for every subsection under the Queer umbrella that covered gay men, lesbian women, bisexuals, trans, everyone!!!

Queer is not a slur... anymore.

How I love the battle cry of the Datalounge Queer Warrior.

I hate the word queer. I hate poisoned dragon.

Queer academia is as useless as black studies or gender studies. It is for college students who failed organic chemistry and had no talent to fall back on.

[quote] ‘Queer’ is every bit as offensive as ‘faggot’ and ‘n- - -r’. Just because some assholes in academia, arts, activism, and media decided to reclaim it doesn’t mean that the rest of us just have to decide to not be offended by it and go along with it.

[quote] Queer academia is as useless as black studies or gender studies.

Divide & Conquer, guys. Divide & Conquer.

r105 JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CALLED YOU A QUEER IN THE 6TH GRADE, YOU'RE GONNA CARRY THAT TRAUMA TO YOUR GRAVE???!!! TOUGHEN THE FUCK UP!

Why don't you google "Queer Politics"!

At one time "Queer" meant a mincing prancing limp wristed pansy, and the gay community turned it into a BATTLE CRY, you dunce! Do your research! Educate your lazy ass!!!

[quote]TOUGHEN THE FUCK UP!

Yet if you don't use a queer's preferred pronouns......

When I hear gay I think of blue skies, lambwoolly clouds, daisies in spring, birds singing, pink satin bows, pretty kids, piano lessons, white picket fences, hostess aprons, skipping along in polished brown shoes.

What's not to like? Of course I prefer gay.

Funny how you no-Queer people think you have the right to dictate what others obviously feel comfortable with and identify with. Just who made you the on to choose? Arrogant and entitled herd of old fuckers you are, just like a bunch of old queens. Leave other people alone.

I hate being called "queen" and queer is millenial BS for homosexuals or people who wanna look interesting

I prefer ‘gay’. And ‘gay man’ in particular. I don’t have anything in common with lesbians or the mostly women who have some other less common identities.

What "Queer" usually means...

[quote] Funny how you no-Queer people think you have the right to dictate what others obviously feel comfortable with and identify with. J

That's funny because the people on this thread actually hate being called queer for the SAME exact reason you just listed. Stop pulling shit from your ass.

'Gay' isn't great either.

'Gay' historically refers to something that is 'soft' or lightweight, and somewhat sappy.

When kids say 'that's so gay', it's not, 'that's so homosexual', it's more 'that's so sappy.'

For homosexuals to be called 'gay', it suggests we too are sappy, non-consequential. It's a rather 'fluffy' term and keeps homosexual men in their place - a novelty not to be taken seriously.

R113, perfect example. I would never hang out with someone like that in real life.

Of course DL does skew older... but there are also a lot of transphobic women who post here and hate the word queer because they associate it with trans people and those who believe they should be treated as human beings.

I have nothing in common with this, nor do I wish to associate with it.

“Queer” is just more bullshit propaganda from the medical industrial complex funding radical gender activism. Fuck “queer”. Get the T out of LGB.

Queer does not mean gay any longer. Many people who call themselves “queer” are straight, so it’s a mistake to substitute one for the other, which is why lumping LGBT under the category “Queer” is inappropriate.

As someone (among many) who had the shit beat out of me when I was a boy while being called “queer” and “faggot”, I loathe the word.

Boomer mommies and daddies really fucked-up their little Millennials ("That's so GAY!").

Then they stuck them in college from 1999 to 2009, where they took classes like Queer Studies and Queer Theory.

To many gays over 45 it's like the N-word.

I don't like the word "queer" I was (I believe) the word most commonly used to disparage us when I was younger. You can describe yourself anyway you choose. None of my family or friends use "Queer", which I'm happy about.

Get dykes out of Gay Rights too.

As already stated multiple times above, the main problems are:

1. It has decades if not centuries long history of being a negative word in general, and since it was first used in an article about Oscar Wilde, a NEGATIVE WORD SPECIFICALLY FOR GAY MEN.

2. Today's "gender fluids"/NBYs/Questioning etc. aka "boring straight people in desperate need of SOMETHING to make them feel special" have appropriated the word.

Moreover, those of you using QAF or the "we're here, we're queer" slogan as evidence of it being "ok" now, you're off the mark. The whole point of ACT Up and Queer Nation were to purposely be PROVOCATIVE and IN YOUR FACE given what was going on in the 80s and 90s, i.e. they needed to be offensive to be heard. It's somewhat analogous to the rap group NWA purposely naming them selves with the N Word as an act of provocation. It does NOT mean that the overall gay population now wants to be labelled us such, just as the overall Black population does not want to be called the N word, especially by non Blacks.

R124, that's why I have to roll my eyes (on the inside) whenever I hear someone announce themselves as "queer" today. Especially if it's a celeb.

I prefer queer to LGBT or LGB. But prefer just gay to queer.

R95. You are wrong. R92 is not alone in objecting to the word "queer." It's insulting, offensive and a repulsive word. I'm gay. I am not queer. I have nothing to do with the bullshit queer mentality. I don't want to own "queer." I want it buried and banished from the lexicon.

It was so much fun being the object of 'Smear the Queer' as a boy, I just can't wait to wear a rainbow jersey with QUEER on it 35 years later.

The majority of blacks in a civil society don't want to be called "nigger." I prefer to be in that same civil society and want nothing to do with the word "queer."

I realize that both of those words are quite different, but nonetheless they are harmful, offensive words. Gay, lesbian, bisexual and even trans is enough and sufficiently defines everyone. If you're one of those who don't like labels, respect my wishes and don't call me queer, a word that is abhorrent to who I am.

That's YOUR opinion R127, Some like it so it will not be buried just because YOU want it. Just throw a big QUEER hissy fit next time someone uses it. It's not all about you. People use the words they want.

Because "queer" doesn't mean anything, it certainly doesn't mean same-sex attracted, it's fake and pretentious, and it stems from queer theory, which is complete trash and, if followed to its logical conclusions will erase the gay.

Why can't gay or bi celebrities simply come out as gay or bi?

I notice that no one is proclaiming let's take back "faggot." Sure, we say it to each other in jest on occasion, but gay people would not want straight society calling them fag or faggot. We don't want to own those words enough to make them acceptable. Queer is equally if not more offensive.

The word queer is repulsive and hateful. Don't use it around me.

[quote] "Queer" is as legit an identity as the others.

And that's the problem - "queer" is an "identity", not a sexuality. One of tbe most stupid things of today is saying shit like "I identify as gay", rather than "I am gay".

My politics are queer.

But my sexuality? I’m a gay man.

OP, you said it yourself at r7, you would call yourself queer if your "interest included men, women, trans men, trans".

"Queer" does not mean gay or bi, it is not a word that can be used to indicate same-sex attraction, it means a bunch of other things.

R70 Gays are just better.

Sorry, I mean you said it yourself at r15 in response to r7.

"Pansexual" used to be called "a complete whore."

R50, that's when "queer" still meant gay/bi and it was only used in that context because it rhymed with "here", not because it's what gays really called themselves. Back then, it could be considered funny and ironic.

The problem started when queer got taken over by the "queer theory" bullshit.

Queer is a term invented by women to invade gay men’s movement.

Sorry, fat dyke-until-graduation, you have pink hair not a personality.

"Queer" is just bizarre rebranding from the trans brigade meant to erase "gay" and gay men.

I even see freaking casting notices, notorious for being uber politically correct and inclusive seeking "queer" actors, because the straight people writing them have been bullied into believing this is the appropriate word for gay men and lesbian women! It's an insane level of tokenism and gay erasure, that's why I dislike it. I don't need an outside group of gender agitators to barge in and rebrand my identity, thanks!

Bigots gotta make every thread an anti-trans thread.

The term queer is mostly used by straight cis women. Trans usually just call themselves trans.

Bigots gotta sic lynch mobs of Men’s Rights Activists in dresses on women stating established biological facts, slander them, threaten them with rape and death, get them fired, silence them on social media, all so they can have easy access to women’s changing rooms, steal all their sports scholarships, make sexual harassment unenforcible and strip women’s reproductive autonomy from law by redefining the word to mean ‘anyone’ rather than the class of humans who create large gametes.

Yawn.

Start your own thread, rad fem at R145.

Isn't infighting FUNNY?

Why push differences aside and fight against a common enemy when you can scratch each other's eyes out over ... words? Screw equal rights, the economy, healthcare, racism, the environment, the education system. Fight for what's REALLY important: The privilege to tell others how to identify!

The whole queer thing is totally linked to the trans thing, r143.

Infighting suggests a common group with common characteristics, interests and ideas, r148. There are no such common characteristics between gays and trans. You should stop telling us gays how to "identify" and what to think.

I'll agree "queer" is easier to say than LGBTQIA+. But there's only one reason I can see that it's taken off - and it's not clear how much it has - is that it's trendy. The quickness to conflate trans issues with gay issues, the freedom of younger boys to do drag, the "I don't see gender" bullshit, the difficulty for some people to say they're gay is all rolled into it.

Most gay men in their 20s I know have know problem saying they're gay and only are attracted to men. My impression is that it's not common and I doubt it will last.

Maybe younger kids in smaller communities feel the need to have allies with all LGBTQIA kids so queer is unifying to them. Who knows? I think "queer" is just silly and ratifies heterosexuality as the "norm". Fuck that. Just be who you are and out and labels will become less relevant to your lives.

R150, labels like gay and straight and man and woman matter when it comes to sex based legal rights. The conflation of sex with “gender identity” undermines the safety and futures of all gay people and women.

Today SCOTUS conflated the two in law, declaring that ‘anyone who self-IDs as a female’ is so and can participate in girls’ and women’s sports. This means there are no more women’s sports, no more sports scholarships for girls. And this piece of foundational law will now be used by those same trans men’s rights activists to undo every other sex-based protection that women, gay people and their allies have fought and died to establish over the last century. If you’re not taking this seriously, you’re not paying attention.

I sure love to see some of these trolls get laid by anyone with their "I hate queer, don't call me queer or I have to crawl back to my safe space!" attitude. They must be total catnip in the hook-up and dating scene.

I don’t see how the recent SCOTUS ruling undermines gay rights.

Women’s sports are not gay rights.

You're flat wrong on that, R150. McLaughlin v. Florida established the principle that if you have a law that punishes sex outside of marriage differently based on the race of one of the members of a couple, it's race discrimination. Florida punished non-marital sex for two years if both parners were white and seven if one of them were "colored". It was race that made the difference Kennedy even made that argument in Obergefell but was so unwilling to completely go there that he wrote a decision based on a controversial vague right (due process) and so we get decisions saying it's not the same as Loving v. Virgina. A white man marrying a black woman was unlawful. If his wife had been white, it would have been legal. That was race discrimination. The same logic would have given us recognition of the FUNDMAENTAL right to marry. Instead we have a "liberty interest" and the Court is free to "sexual orientation" is different.

Bostock got it 100% right. If a woman puts a picture of her husband on her desk and is accepted but a man does the same thing and is fired for it. It's HIS sex that made the difference though both employees had husbands. Title VII protected people under this logic when sexuality was not part of it, but that doesn't mean that sex (gender) is irrelevant to sexuality. The reason a man who has sex with a man is so offensive is sex and sexuality. You can't separate them that way.

And if the ACLU had made that argument in Bowers v. Hardwick, we would have never have been allowed to be branded as criminals. The Georgia attorney general said he would not prosecute oral sex between a man and a woman. The Court even acknowledged that there was a sex discrimination argument to be made in the footnotes (as the dissent did). Instead, the ACLU tried to make it about some vague unwritten right to due process, which depends on historical liberties, so the Court turned to history and said there was no historical protection for "homosexual conduct". A woman giving a man a blowjob is legal and a man giving a blowjob is a crime? Ridiculous.

It's the sex of the members of the couple that makes laws that punished "same-sex activity" and "sexual orientation" work the way they did. To say you can separate them is just being obtuse.

And in NO way will that mean what trans activists are going to define or limit us or even prevail on the current dogma If they're not "sick" now, the world is going to wake up and stop paying for their "medical care" for their "gender expression". We need to start being bold enough to say so

And everyone agrees that if Obergefell had been decided as Loving v. Virginia had been, the protection would have been stronger. The only reason we didn't is that closeted Kennedy wouldn't agree to it. Breaking off sexual orientation from sex guarantees that religious groups will be given exceptions for not hiring "openly gay" employees when they would never be able to fire women to norms based on religion.

If a man puts a

Sorry that should have been directed at R151.

R155 why have men’s and women’s sports, historically, been sex segregated?

Oh, I see fish have decided to make this thread about them.

I think I’ll just take a break.

Why have men and women’s prisons and bathrooms and changing rooms been, historically, sex-segregated? Why is there still no pay equity in any Western nation between men and women? Are 99% of global sexual assaults committed against women because they ‘identify’ as women or because of their biology?

I want to be queer but not sure what it means. What do I have to do to be queer?

R159, all you have to do is self-identify and slur anyone who doesn’t know or care what’s in your head as a bigot.

Gay is the word for me. Or lesbian but gay is more my group. Queer isn't exclusively about sexual orientation, which is why it's favored, but for that reason, it's not for me. An age thing--I'm over 40 and heard "queer" hissed at gay people.

Queer replaces having to say I am LGBTQRSTUVWX. I don't enjoy heterosexuals belonging to Queer so I reject it and I also don't like Trans politics the last 10 years. Finally, its a gimmick to rehabilitate an insult word, and I find that facile and cloying. Why should someone be able to take away a neutral and usefully descriptive label many felt comfortable with for decades? If I want to claim membership in LGBTQRSTUVWX I can, but I can also be gay, and if straits get to belong, what's the fucking point?

Like "cis" is just another bullshit tranny term I hate, avoid at all costs, since there's no such a thing as "cis"

Cis makes people a subclass of their own sex. It gives legitimacy to the Identiferians. Gender norms are social constructs used to oppress women and gay people.

Hearing someone say, 'I'm queer" doesn't convey anything informative. Are they gay? Not necessarily. It tells me a lot about class and culture but not about the individual. When I say I'm gay, I'm communicating an actual detail about myself.

And I understand that if I'd been born 15 years later I would be fine with "queer," but I wasn't.

That's funny R109, I just think of fucking a guy.

[quote] When I hear gay I think of blue skies, lambwoolly clouds, daisies in spring, birds singing, pink satin bows, pretty kids, piano lessons, white picket fences, hostess aprons, skipping along in polished brown shoes.

Now you’re talkin my language.

[quote] Bigots gotta make every thread an anti-trans thread.

“If the tacky, triple EEE wide Payless shoe 👠 fits ....”

And if the Birkenstock fits you’re a TERF!

OP, I'm more interested in why you need us to accept being called queer. If the group of people that would be referred to with that term is objecting, why do you have a problem with that?

Because r170, they'll be stripped of their "Most Woke" titles by not genuflecting to the most woke thing ever, the Trans Agenda and the "Trans Women of Cullag started Stonewall and GAVE YOU YOUR RIGHTS" chorus!!

*CULLAH, I meant above.

You have to say it that way, or you're a TERF!

Homophobic child abusers are the ones pushing "queer".

"BBC Newsnight has revealed that gay and lesbian children are being pushed into chemical castration and surgical mutilation by homophobic families and peers. Homophobia in families is mentioned in all of the transcripts Newsnight has seen. Staff were actively discouraged from contacting authorities when they felt children faced abusive situations. We did have a lot of families and parents who did tell us ‘Oh, I’m so glad my child at least is not a gay or lesbian.’ Suddenly the young person stopped identifying as lesbian and started identifying as trans,” the report says. For everyone who has accused gender ideology of targeting young homosexual people with conversion, this is a horrifying vindication."

I reject "cis" and "queer" for myself and I'll use them if they're the terms for you. I don't explain why I don't like a term for myself that I didn't choose.

I was involved with Queer Nation in NYC from the start. I have no issue with queer being interchangeable with gay. I do have an issue with straight people calling themselves queer and demanding the focus shifts to them and the difficult lives they lead due to their queerness.

As an elder gay, the words queer and faggot still sting and bring back ugly memories of being taunted and abused as a kid in the 60's and early 70's. By the time I came out in the late 70's / early 80's, the term "gay" had entered the vernacular, but queer and faggot were still used as an insult. Personally, I'm not comfortable using either word to describe myself or others but I understand why some want to embrace those words.

[QUOTE] The gay community to the word queer back, waaaaaaay back in the late 80s. I don't know what cave you've been living in for the past 35 years, but you may want to catch up with the rest of us!!!

I rejected it then and I reject it now. I’m a gay man.

I have no problem with the word when it comes to arts, queer cinema or queer literature are perfectly ok for me because it's an umbrella where a lot of different thing can fit.

And curiously that's my problem when it comes to use queer as sexual orientation, you never know what the person is talking about it. There are totally straight people who define themselves as queer because they are in open relationships or throuple or alternative life styles.

And the fact that totally gay actors and singers use the world to avoid any criticism for the bearding they did for years doesn't make me a fan either.

I'm not a fan of ambiguity a sexual orientation doesn't define you (nobody expect that saying you are straight tells from a persona nothing more that he or she is sexually atracted to the opposite sex).

I don't hate the word but i'll never use it to define myself

R175 You forgot most people who identify themselves as "Queer" are not actually gay/exclusive same-sex attraction. In fact most of them are tranny chasers and fuck everything that has a hole... And no it's not right using gay/homosexual and "Queer" like they're same thing, they're both completely different things.

I do know gay people who identify as queer but they really are mainly either academic types or in the "woke" crowd. The rest of the people I know who identify as queer are either trans, gender NB, straight but trying to be edgy, etc.

I also prefer “homo” to “gay” — and ALL these words were used as insults back in the 70s.

Not many people who identify as queer are exclusively same-sex oriented.

A lot of these trendy words are covers for closeted gays. If you are a man and you like to have sex with other men, you are gay. I am an older gay man, I have had sex with a few women back when I was very young. Did I enjoy it? I always enjoy fucking, but I prefer men. I room with a woman who is beautiful and even if I was younger, I would prefer a man so I could fuck because I have no interest in pursuing hetero sex.

Sick of these names. You fuck the same sex and want them, you are gay. You fuck both, you are bi. You think you are of another gender, you are delusional. End of story.

R77 Is that Chumlee from Pawn Stars?

R163 Not to pick a bone with you, but you should realise these are scientific terms, not "made up" by transsexuals....In organic chemistry we utilise these terms to describe geometric isomerism. They are Latin terms:

Cis="this side of" Cis isomers are molecules with the same connectivity of atoms...

Trans= "the other side of" Trans isomers have molecules with two same atoms, but in the opposite side of the double bond.

Have you never heard the term Trans-fat? These terms became commonly accepted to refer to natural born, and its "other side" after Julia Serano discussed its use in her book [italic] Whipping Girl [/italic] in 2007. Use of the term began in 1990 according to Oxford. Its use became an accepted definition by the OED in 2015. Gender theorists began using it... It cannot be "credited" as made up by any particular trans person.

You don't have to like or use the term, however you should be straight on the meanings and origin. No pun intended!

Then leave them in organic chemistry, r185. That's where they belong. I am not r163, but like him, I am not a "cis." I am a gay man. We did not need that terminology for most of my life, and we do not need it now. I certainly do not.

Thanks R185 - I didn't know "cis" was the opposite of "trans" in Latin, I also assumed it was a made up word, like all the ridiculous car and drug names of this century. I still feel it is an unnecessary addition to interpersonal discussions of identity and the like, but it's interesting to know how it entered the lexicon.

R185, these "scientific" terms have nothing to do with the new fad of "gender identity". You show how intellectually facile you are by referencing Serano.

Love how the trans advocates appeal to "science" in an effort to deny empirical reality.

By the way, trans fats are bad for you.

R187, cis and trans are prefixes in Latin and were never used in the way that the trans ideologists are trying to use them today. They basically went through Latin to try to find some "scientific-sounding" terms to give their nonsense some credibility, despite being themselves the biggest deniers of biological reality that you can imagine.

[quote] The word "queer" needs to be relegated to ash heap of history. It's insulting and disgusting.

Calm down, Mary!

Deep breaths. Deep breaths,

Again, I'm not pushing for anyone to choose these terms to refer to himself, just stating that they simply were not made up by transsexual (s)..... Au contraire, it isn't "intellectually facile" to try to enlighten others on the etymology of a term. I'm not quoting Serano, nor a scholar of her work... I'm simply sharing what is available everywhere discuss of how the word became POPULAR, or ACCEPTED.

It's not my proclamation... Don't shoot the messenger, as they say. Take it up with Oxford, and the linguists on the board who were involved with the 2015 decision if you're so ardently passionate about the matter. (I went to Cambridge!)

^ discussion

I despise the term queer, as it was it was term that grown-ups & grandmas used to politely voice their disgust with gay people. This word will never be reclaimed & people who choose to be identified as queer are pompous, uninformed, self-important individuals with no regard from history or courtesy beyond themselves. No one outside their circle of friends will ever refer to them as queer with any intent of affection. No one outside of her circle of friends ever refers to a woman as a bitch with any sense of endearment. As well, no one outside of their circle of friends refers to a black person as the n word intending to offer acceptance. Anyone who thinks the world will ever use queer as an all encompassing term of positive inclusion are foolishly naive. Hearing someone like Janelle Monae refer to people as queer with a ridiculous air of being "woke" & assuming that everyone appreciates being referred to as such should be smart enough to ponder whether or not an offensive label may be as offensive as someone referring to her as an n word because the word as been "reclaimed".

R193, I like Monae but you're right. These people referring to themselves as queer are a niche group. They don't represent the majority of LGB-whatever people out there. I'm sure that's not what they think but it's true.

OP, just how weapons-grade stupid ARE you?

QUEER is a SLUR.

It's saying there is something WRONG with you.

It's the word that was hurled at me when I was gay bashed back in the late 80s.

Why the FUCK would anyone not understand this?

Some people have never heard about the game "Smear the Queer", which was played pretty much everywhere in the 70s and 80s.

R189 I didn't state cis & trans were ever used in such a context... until 1990...(if you carefully re-read my post). What I did state, was that [italic] linguists [/italic] came to popularly accept the term, after Serano... hence the reference. She is credited with the terms being OFFICIALLY recognised is all.

Anyone can find these references via a simple google search. I'm not making any controversy. It would appear many on DL are seriously triggered. This is evidenced by how many of you jump to conclusions, and resort to insults and ad hominem attacks, simply because someone joining the discussion insists on being truthful, rational, logical, and intellectual.

I'm not anti-trans, but I'm also not some scholar of gender, or a scholar of intersectional whatever.... I'm not an activist for trans people either. I'm simply someone who likes to correct things that are wrong, and to share my knowledge of things. I do believe trans people should be accorded all the same human and civil rights as the rest of us, so if that makes me an advocate, so be it.

We all are worthy of dignity, compassion, and respect as members of the human race. It's sad some people need to be reminded of that in our current turbulent times.

Shalom

R183 You talked exactly like a "Queer" not like a actual homosexual. "Queer" people enjoys sex with everything, even minors. (as Queer theory supports... Not saying that you are tho). That's why I hate this term and avoid everyone who call themselves that.

R183 - I didn't say I enjoyed sex with everyone. I said when I was young and hornier, I had found sex with women acceptable enough (a blow job, a fuck, etc.) but preferred men 100 times over and have since. Queer theory is idiotic. Every gay man has a different life experience, some may be able to enjoy sex with a woman and other don't at all...but ALL prefer same sex partners..that is why they are gay. Queer is made up BS.

Most "Queer" people today are straight and think hair dye is a sexuality.

How come it is so easy to always tell exactly what sex every genderqueer, gender fluid, nonbinary, nongendered, etc. person is? Why is the only person confused by it the person him/her/them/itself?

Today's "Queers" are fundamentally homophobic in their ideology.

"homos" also means "same"

Natal and biological would also have served but nope, it's far more motivated to use the ugliest term that sounds like a skin disease is without any consultation from the group we apply it to,

Kinsey scale in 2020:

cunts

R202, I couldn't even make it through the whole video, the trans persons's victimology was tiresome. I really hope MOST trans people are not like that. I have met normal ones in my life, perhaps I've been fortunate.

In grade school kids used queer and fagot as insults. I can’t understand how people who are not even same sex attracted have decided this is how they want to identify.

R199 Your gaslighting and contradiction is showing here...

You said very well that you like both sexes and prefers the other.... that's not homosexual even by your definition... moron.

And Just correcting, gay men are gay it's not because they 'prefer' men, it's because they like exclusively* men. And you're just another bi/queer who call himself "gay"... Blocking to avoid gaslighting and a unnecessary obvious discussion.

I don’t understand the pushback against queer. It’s just an umbrella term that unites us all together. It doesn’t take away from anyone being gay, lesbian, etc.

I’m a gay man and I would say I’m gay if asked, but I realize that gay also falls under the queer family and therefore I’m queer by default too.

Someone from New York is an American too, even if they most identify with and refer to themselves as a New Yorker. Calling them an American doesn’t negate them being a New Yorker, it simply unites with with other Americans.

Likewise, queer allows us to feel closeness with our LGBT cousins, but we can still maintain our tribal identities within our queerdom.

r209, even the thought of being called "queer" does not unite me with anyone or anything. I am gay. I am not queer. Fuck you. Fuck your "reclaiming." Fuck your attempt to redefine me.

I don't mind "queer,' though certainly it seems more natural in some uses than in others. "Queer" was briefly a more radicalized version of "gay" that implied some attendant attitude and perspective, often an "out there" gay in the sense of being forward and not shying away or conservative: "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" It crossed over to a sort of umbrella term, a word to replace the fucking awkward alphabet that changes through pronounced intention or sloppiness to recollect some sense of the order of the letters without omitting too important letter and not adding on too many not important letters. In the cross over "queer" became less a distinction between two stripes of gay and more a division between "gay" and "the queer rest," the gender non-conforming, non-binary, neither this nor that "don't label me" leftover zone of "queers."

Either of the two politicized variations of "queer" rub some "gays" the wrong way. Is being "gay" about defining and aligning yourself with other people who are attracted to the same sex? Is being "queer" about being a politicized "gay" for whom same-sex attraction is just one part of the definition? Is being "queer" about some mythical, magical garden of misfits who are not this and they're not that, and don't you dare call them that other thing, and who will not be defined by your definitions and "will not defined by your pronouns but my mine, daminit"?

I can explain the pushback against "queer." To me, something important about me is communicated by the word "gay." The word "queer" tells me nothing that interests me or even begins to paint a picture of the person so called.

As for a term that "unites us all together," that term for me is "humanity." I don't need a quasi-subculture. But I do love a proper subculture--the one I find myself in. It matters to me that my body and my partner's (and my experience of my body and her experience of hers) have in common something I care about. The homo in homosexual. If it doesn't matter to you, good for you, but I decide that my description, "gay," conveys what I am and what I love, and "queer" doesn't do that for me.

And I have to doubt any claim that someone doesn't understand an aversion to the word "queer." How do you not understand that other people are other people? I would never say "I don't understand why some people prefer 'queer.'" Is it less that you don't understand and more that you don't like it, and want to talk me out of it?

The trans psychos are pushing "queer" because, per their own ideology, homosexual people can be neither "cisgender" (gender conforming) nor "transgender" (in the wrong body). Homosexuals, to them, are just problematic bigots who are not accepting, yet, of the "fact" that they're "in the wrong body". But you're not going to convince anyone gay of that, so the push is to make everyone in LGBTFeagrargae+ "identify" as "queer".

There were pink triangles and “silence=death” stenciled all over the East Village and my brethren and sistren chanted “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!”

R191, I went to Cambridge too, Faculty of Classics in fact, and I think this "cis" stuff is bullshit with a fake etymology. The cis/trans nonsense to describe gender has nothing to do with scientific terminology and was very much invented by the transcultists and queer theorists.

The problem with "queer" is the way in which it has been monopolised by "queer theory" and turned into something very different from what it may have meant in a slogan such as "We're here, we're queer, get used to it". In queer theory, gender and sexuality are "social constructs", they are unrelated to your body (your physical existence) or the sex you are attracted to, and I'm not talking about steretoypes of gender and sexuality or social attitudes towards them as being social constructs, but literally gender and sexuality are deemed to be social constructs, and that is very dangerous and slippery slope for women and the LGB.

r215, one correction, transcultists believe that biological sex is imaginary and that 'gender' (sexist social constructs that vary from culture to culture) is the only true thing.

Sexist social constructs that the trans only reinforce through the caricatured versions of women and men that they "transition" into.

R209, are you stupid or delusional?

The word "Queer" does NOT apply to me, and never will. It's a homophobic slur. Period. WTF is wrong with you? I'm not a "faggot" either. Neither is an 'umbrella term' of any kind.

I'm a gay man. I am homosexual. I am not, in any way, 'QUEER'. So fuck you if you try and call me that.

If you don't understand the pushback against queer, it's becase you're "queer" yourself. The End.

R219 = Queer (a T, or blue haired SJW)

What R212 said. "Queer" does not communicate information. Actually, it prevents, or avoids, the communication of information. It's very twentieth century.

r221, it's very 12th century.

If you are a man and you like to have sex with other men, you are gay. not if you're that senator that was caught in Minnesota. The term is MSM - men who have sex with men. MSM=Gay

Just what is so wrong about being called gay. It's like men these days we'll identify anyting else but that (gender-fluid, queer, heteroflexible, pansexual,)

Is it just an American thing? I'm sure in Germany there are men that identify as gay or at least bisexual. Even in repressed countries such as Iran and China, they are gay but have to remain closet it because of the repercussions. But at least they still know they're gay and identify as gay at least not publicly.

If you are a man and you like to have sex with other men, you are gay. not if you're that senator that was caught in Minnesota. The term is MSM - men who have sex with men. MSM=Gay

Just what is so wrong about being called gay. It's like men these days we'll identify anyting else but that (gender-fluid, queer, heteroflexible, pansexual,)

Is it just an American thing? I'm sure in Germany there are men that identify as gay or at least bisexual. Even in repressed countries such as Iran and China, they are gay but have to remain closet it because of the repercussions. But at least they still know they're gay and identify as gay at least not publicly.

R223, definitely not just an American thing, it's much worse in developing countries like Pakistan, African countries, Latin American countries, etc. In Pakistan, men can often be married to a woman but have sex with men on the side and still be considered "straight". In some documentary I saw, a man had sex with about 1,000 men but was married and considered himself straight.

Queer is a slur.

R223 correction, 'MSM' is a umbrella term just for men who like men, exclusively or not... it's not just for gays.

I prefer "quare," like the Irish say.

r218 has stated her boundaries!!!

r227 men who have sex with men are gay men. Not women.

Queer is the new bi. It means you’re a coward who is to afraid to say you’re gay.

r231, no it means you're a coward afraid to admit you're straight.

I’m sure you’d like to believe that R232.

R230 You misundestood my post, I meant that MSM include men of all orientations not only gays.

Straight men don't fuck other men.

R235 Yes, I know. but according with definition of MSM, yes they have.

Well then either the term or the definition is wrong, clearly.

[quote]We replaced "queer" long ago with "nellie prisspot."

Do all British gays spell "nelly" that way?

I'm gay and I'm male. Just call me gay, not queer. Queer sounds like a blanket term for someone questioning their sexual identity and orientation. I already know who I am. I don't mind the use of the term at all for people who people who are still trying to discover who they are - but it's also rather irritating when you do come out and identify as who you are, to be just lumped back in the label of "queer".

I'm 50. I hate that word queer. It's a violent, hateful word specifically designed to vilify gay males. It upsets me every time I see it or hear it in the media.

It's the word they whispered under their breath as they did something nasty to discriminate against us behind the scenes so we didn't get the job, or the bank loan, or gain the social contact, or get the rental or achieve what we would have had we been heterosexual. Queer was the word they spat it at us along with other insults to terrify us as gangs of them chased us down the street. Queer was the word shouted at us as they beat us and broke our faces and kicked our guts in. And for some of us - queer was the last word they heard as they died from severe beatings with baseball bats and tire irons...

Nobody I know actually dare to speak the word out loud these days because it is as deeply offensive as nigger, kike, spik, gook etc. and everybody knows it.

And I wont be told by some jumped up fuck that the word is "reclaimed" and I have to like it and use it and if I don't agree then there is something wrong with me and that it's all my fault.

So that's why the word is deeply loathed by so many of us gays/homosexuals if you really wanted to know OP.

[quote]And for some of us - queer was the last word they heard as they died from severe beatings with baseball bats and tire irons...

Tell me about it.

I’m in my sixties and have seen “queer” go from pejorative to affirmative to aspirational. It’s that last meaning that makes my skin crawl—two many straight people claim it.

Am also struck by the fact that “blue hair” has gone from meaning “old-ladyish” to “young and hip.” Heh.

Op they are victims of identity politics. Its killing the country.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Queer is now an umbrella term for all sexual orientations and gender identities other than straight orientation and male/female identities.

Occasionally though I have seen someone identify as queer as their personal identity - I assume this means they don't want to share or are unsure of their orientation / gender identity but want you to know they fall under the umbrella?

The problem with queer is queer theory.

Just for this, nobody gets to complain when heterosexuals get called breeders.

I hate the word queer, but I've never been crazy about the word gay either.

Gay is perfectly fine and accurate.

It's too inclusive for my liking. Lump me in with my fellow gay men, lesbian women and I guess Bis, but I'm not part of any umbrella that includes trans, asexual, midgetsexual and every other addition beyond the original 3 letters.

I’m a gay man and prefer the word gay.

It’s offensive that straight people use a hateful word to describe me. Imagine “nigger theory,” “spic cinema” or “fish studies major.” It would never happen. Gays and lesbians are so discriminated against and we do nothing about it.

I hate that our flag was desecrated by the addition of black and brown stripes. If someone wants to make an all inclusion flag, make one, but don’t ruin my flag. Again, imagine if we added a rainbow or a brown line to the American flag!

The thing I don’t understand is the hatred towards trans. I don’t have close trans friends, but I have professional relationships with several (both MTF and FTM) and they’re all great people. I think the cross dressing freaks who demand access to women’s spaces are the exception, kind of like straights calling gay men pedophiles. Women have to stick up for their rights, but we don’t have to be so cruel to our trans brothers and sisters in the process.

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[quote]Does anybody really understand why? "Queer" is as legit an identity as the others.

Regardless of how it sounds, "stupid fucking queers!" etc., it's essentially meaningless.

If a guy comes out as gay or bisexual, we know what he's into. If a guy comes out as queer, it doesn't really mean anything. Could be bi, could be gay, could be straight and attention seeking or some kind of homophobic asshole that thinks that being gay or bi has more to do with appearances rather than being into people with the same physical parts as you so he thinks that straight guys who wear woman's panties are "queer" etc. etc. etc..

Honestly, if you can't say "gay" could you. just say "I LIKE DICK" or something that lets people know that you're into men? "Queer" doesn't cut it.

Also, being trans has nothing to do with it. Gay, straight and bisexual are about the physical parts of the person who is attracted to another and the physical parts of the person to whom they are attracted--they aren't about how someone is fucking dressed.