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Do You Love Hitchcock's "Vertigo"?

I've never been able to get into it, and have a theory that it's a straight guy thing. I think they have the hots for Kim Novak and identify with Jimmy Stewart.


by Anonymousreply 13706/27/2020

Why no Rope?

by Anonymousreply 106/18/2020

It's not widely seen. I did include an "other" category, and Strangers on a Train is pretty homoerotic.

So I take it your favorite is Rope?

by Anonymousreply 206/18/2020

R2, j’adore Rope, along with so many of his other films, but I voted for Vertigo.

by Anonymousreply 306/18/2020

The first time I saw VERTIGO, I was a teenager and didn't care for it all that much. I saw it again as an adult and think it's excellent, but it's a slow-burn film that won't appeal to all of Hitchcock's fans.

I can't say that I have a single favorite, but SHADOW OF A DOUBT, NOTORIOUS, STRANGERS ON A TRAIN, VERTIGO, and PSYCHO are my top 5.

by Anonymousreply 406/18/2020

The Birds is his gayest, even gayer than Strangers On A Train.

by Anonymousreply 506/18/2020

Another vote for Rope. Was always impressed with the seemingly “seamless” transitions when I watched it as a kid (video store rentals).

But upon further viewing as I got older, the scene transitions were very apparent.

Psycho, I appreciate in many ways, but it just is not as revered by me than by others. Sacrilege I’m sure, but I much prefer Psycho 2 if I’m going to watch one of the films of that “series”.

I often wondered had he been alive what Hitchcock would’ve thought of Psycho 2.

by Anonymousreply 606/18/2020

VERTIGO is an OLD straight guy thing.

I don't sympathize with Jimmy Stewart's character a whole lot. He believes Kim Novak when she claims to be a totally different person from the blonde she was masquerading as before, even though she has the same face and Stewart forces her to dress like the disguise and wear blonde hair again.

Would a decent guy stalk some woman who defrauded him? Would a good guy force her to become lovers again? Would you, then, drag her by the arms up the bell tower where she defrauded you and threaten her with violence?

Stewart wasn't personally harmed by the fraud, other than losing a recent date.

I guess straight guys back then were supposed to beat a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 706/18/2020

Vertigo is the only Hitchcock movie I love. It's the visuals. They are so good, you can forget the plot holes.

by Anonymousreply 806/18/2020

Did Kim flash her boobs in this?

by Anonymousreply 906/18/2020

From your list I chose North By Northwest -But I also love Family Plot, The Man Who Knew Too Much (remake), and The Trouble With Harry.

Vertigo is not just an "old straight guy thing." In fact, I think it's one of his gayest films. The man's obsession with someone he doesn't know -has barely met. The way he stalks her and builds up fantasies about her. Reminds me of a lot of gay men I've known! There is also the man's obsession with her youth and unavailability -Kind of like gay men and their obsessions with straight guys.

by Anonymousreply 1006/18/2020

I don't like it but I have only seen it once.

by Anonymousreply 1106/18/2020

OP, your thread title doesn't match your poll.

Anyway, no, I did not love "Vertigo," very stupid and weak premise to the story (mistaken identity).

by Anonymousreply 1206/18/2020

I'm pleasantly surprised that so many of you have seen and loved Rope. I assumed it was a little too obscure to put in the poll but am regretting that decision now. It isn't a favorite of mine, but it's compelling and underappreciated.

I know the title doesn't match the poll. Originally, I was just going to ask who loves Vertigo, but then added the poll on a whim right before posting.

by Anonymousreply 1306/18/2020

[quote] Reminds me of a lot of gay men I've known!

The way he tries to turn her into his ideal of the perfect woman is like how many gay man take all these pics on instagram to show how "masculine" they and their partners are (But really aren't).

by Anonymousreply 1406/18/2020

I also grew to love Vertigo later in life. If you see the film as a dream it makes more sense.

by Anonymousreply 1506/18/2020

He used JIMMY Stewart a lot? Ideally do love Strangers on a Train and Rope. When I think about it, I prefer Rear Window.

by Anonymousreply 1606/18/2020

1. Lifeboat

2. Rebecca

3. The Birds

4. Notorious

5. Young and Innocent

by Anonymousreply 1706/18/2020

I always found "Vertigo" to be slow and overly long with very little action. My favorite Hitchcock is "Rear Window." I loved the way the movie made the viewer a voyeur just like Jimmy Stewart, peeking at people through their windows and inventing stories about their lives.

I also really liked one of Hitchcock's lesser known films, "Torn Curtain," with Paul Newman and Julie Andrews. A great Cold War thriller.

by Anonymousreply 1806/18/2020

I was chiming in to mention Lifeboat. Talullah is fantastic!

by Anonymousreply 1906/18/2020

A while back, my best friend was assigned to watch 'Vertigo' as part of a course on film appreciation, and we watched it together. It certainly doesn't meet today's standards of behavior; Jimmy Stewart's dominating, controlling behavior came across as very off-putting, especially making Kim Novak change her manner of dress and appearance in order to mirror what was supposed to be that of a dead woman. It made us both kind of uncomfortable with our main character; it wasn't at all what we expected from a film from 1958.

And it was evident that this film was highly influential on the work of David Lynch, who has repeated the motif of two women, one blonde, the other brunette, often played by the same actress, as well as themes of death, and domination/submission.

by Anonymousreply 2006/18/2020

Basically, I like Hitchcock films -All of them. Some are better than others. He did prefer a slower pace that many people can tolerate today, but there was usually a good payoff at the end. He did some amazing work in his less-popular films like Torn Curtain and Topaz.

by Anonymousreply 2106/18/2020


Joel McCrea in his boxers... YUM!

by Anonymousreply 2206/18/2020

Rope always reminds me of those two wily criminals - Lame-o Leopold and luscious Loeb

by Anonymousreply 2306/18/2020

What is gay about The Birds?

by Anonymousreply 2406/18/2020

Shadow of a Doubt--Hitchcock's own favorite among his films, and deservedly so. His most consistently strong cast: Joseph Cotton, Teresa Wright, Patricia Collinge, Henry Travers, Macdonald Carey, Hume Cronyn, Frances Carson, little Edna May Wonacott, and Janet Shaw as the awesomely burnt-out waitress Louise at the 'Til Two Diner: "Yessir, I'd just about die to have a ring like that."

by Anonymousreply 2506/18/2020

R24 there's a subtext that Suzanne Pleshette's character is a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 2606/18/2020

R26, subtext? She’s practically a one-woman Home Depot softball team.

by Anonymousreply 2706/18/2020

[quote] Jimmy Stewart's dominating, controlling behavior came across as very off-putting, especially making Kim Novak change her manner of dress and appearance in order to mirror what was supposed to be that of a dead woman. It made us both kind of uncomfortable with our main character; it wasn't at all what we expected from a film from 1958.

You were expecting him to be woke and empowering? "Judy, I've brought you a mimeograph machine so you can print your newsletter on women's rights in the workplace..."

He's meant to be very unsympathetic in his behavior towards Judy at the end. It came across as bullying back in 1958.

by Anonymousreply 2806/18/2020

R24, it's a sensibility, evident throughout the film - like a grown man who lives with his mother and younger sister, who has somehow never succumbed to the advances of women who have become infatuated with him.

by Anonymousreply 2906/18/2020

Rebecca is an under-rated classic. It's where Mel Brooks got the idea for Frau Blucher!

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by Anonymousreply 3006/18/2020

[quote] It made us both kind of uncomfortable with our main character; it wasn't at all what we expected from a film from 1958.

Of course, that was the point. He has issues.

by Anonymousreply 3106/18/2020

I went on a Hitchcock binge about 10 years ago. I have to say Vertigo was one of my least favorites. I loved Rear Window and North by Northwest.

I might rewatch both!

by Anonymousreply 3206/18/2020

I’m voting for Hitchcock’s favorite Hitchcock film: “SHADOW OF A DOUBT” (1943), with Teresa Wright and Joseph Cotten.

by Anonymousreply 3306/18/2020

I love The 39 Steps and The Lady Vanishes

by Anonymousreply 3406/18/2020

MARNIE has a lot to answer for now: then-untreated topics as "recovered memory," marital rape, female childhood trauma, female PTSD, etc. etc.

ROPE is insanely homophobic (despite being written and enacted by gay men), but I love it.

by Anonymousreply 3506/18/2020

I liked Marnie much more than The Birds or even Psycho. Frenzy was terrible. That rape scene is so ludicrous, I just stopped watching after that.

by Anonymousreply 3606/18/2020

I think ROPE becomes less homophobic when you realize that their professor may very well have been fucking both of them when they were his students.

The only bad thing about ROPE is that Jimmy Stewart just could not pull off the whole stammering finale where he's trying to weasel out of his responsibility in the matter. James Mason would have been revelatory in the role. Cary Grant better, but a little too smarmy. Stewart was self-conscious and unconvincing in a lot of scenes.

by Anonymousreply 3706/18/2020

I always liked FRENZY, it's by far the perviest Hitchcock film

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by Anonymousreply 3806/18/2020

r38, sorry, that rape scene is so ridiculous that I couldn't take the movie seriously. It was so laughably executed.

by Anonymousreply 3906/18/2020

MARNIE, anyone? Tippi Hedren playing a frigid kleptomaniac with severe mommy issues (probably lez coded). She gets raped by Sean Connery who tries to 'fix' her - very bizarre and way too long.

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by Anonymousreply 4006/18/2020

R40, I posted above, but I like it way more than any Hitchcock film made after Vertigo.

by Anonymousreply 4106/18/2020

The 39 Steps is very good - the entire movie is available in HD on Youtube linked below for those interested.

But I agree that Vertigo and Psycho are his best work. The Lady Vanishes, Strangers on a Train and Spellbound stand out to me as well. The Birds is too ridiculous to enjoy unironically, I do like Suzanne Pleshette in it though.

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by Anonymousreply 4206/18/2020

Love Marnie. Very Hitchcock.

by Anonymousreply 4306/18/2020

The best Hitchcock movie is Rear Window. But many of them are simply superb — the paragon of a good director and storyteller.

Rebecca Notorious Strangers on a Train Vertigo (really, some kind of masterpiece) North by Northwest Psycho The Birds Marnie

by Anonymousreply 4406/18/2020

Not his best but highly watchable and entertaining: Rebecca (1940), Spellbound (1945), Stage Fright (1950) ,

by Anonymousreply 4506/18/2020

R24 The Birds is very lezzy, these two had more chemistry than Melanie and Mitch did.

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by Anonymousreply 4606/18/2020

Turn it all the way up!

Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is that of ultra-sheer genius; the picture has it's ups and downs, but the score is fabulous! I love to listen to it when I'm on a long road trip, such as the back way from LA to Walla Walla on the 395; literally hundreds of miles of desolate, haunting landscape with not a soul in sight, and then that patrol car comes up behind me . . . :)

Also Alex North's score for the much-maligned "Cleopatra"; again, super-evocative, excellent composer!

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by Anonymousreply 4706/18/2020

OP your opening gambit doesn't make sense. I could LOVE Vertigo and it also could NOT be my favorite Hitchcock.

by Anonymousreply 4806/18/2020

Is Rebecca streaming? I can't find it anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 4906/18/2020

Beautiful Anthony Perkins

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by Anonymousreply 5006/18/2020

r49, there is apparently an HD version on youtube

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by Anonymousreply 5106/18/2020

Thanks, R51!

by Anonymousreply 5206/18/2020

What, no To Catch a Thief ?

by Anonymousreply 5306/18/2020

Vertigo was great. I live all Hitchcock movies, but Marnie and Rebecca are my personal favorites.

Tippi Hedren was very beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 5406/18/2020


I wouldn't expect much DL affection for STAGE FRIGHT, I CONFESS, THE WRONG MAN, FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, SABOTEUR, FAMILY PLOT, SUSPICION...outside of some of the actors in the cast.


by Anonymousreply 5506/18/2020

R54, I loved Vertigo and Marine too. You're taste seems similar to mine, I'll give Rebecca a try.

R49, you're welcome. Thinking of watching it myself.

by Anonymousreply 5606/18/2020

My favorite Hitchcock movies are "Rear Window," "Dial M for Murder," and "North by Northwest."

The first two because of Grace Kelly,,,great performances. Plus in "Rear Window" Hitchcock gives such a slice of a New York neighborhood that rang tru from the 1950s, and, I bet, still rings true in some places today. Plus Jimmy Stewart and Thelma Ritter were outstanding too.

In "Dial Me for Murder," Grace Kelly's vulnerability rings true.

As for "N by NW," Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint...suave, debonair, chic!!!

by Anonymousreply 5706/18/2020

I love Vertigo because it's dreamy, with its long languorous passages. The effect is heightened if you watch it on celluloid in a movie theatre. It's deeply perverted too.

by Anonymousreply 5806/18/2020

YOUNG AND INNOCENT (37) hinges on the revelation of a killer in blackface (gasp!).

MURDER! (30) hinges on the revelation of a biracial, gay, transvestite (gasp!).

by Anonymousreply 5906/18/2020

That scene where Kim Novak wakes up naked In Stewart's bed is still shocking today.

by Anonymousreply 6006/18/2020

R55, obviously you didn’t read my entry at r33!

by Anonymousreply 6106/18/2020

Does anybody like The Paradine Case? What a slog.

by Anonymousreply 6206/18/2020

Plenty of people have mentioned several of those films, R55.

by Anonymousreply 6306/18/2020

I think I'm the only person who like Under Capricorn

by Anonymousreply 6406/18/2020

I have several favorites of Hitchcock films, so it's hard to pick just one. Vertigo, Rear Window, North By Northwest are probably my three favorites.

by Anonymousreply 6506/18/2020

Psycho is my favorite and it still packs a punch to this day. The Birds is one I haven't seen since I was a kid, but I'm very interested in rewatching it again soon. I only recently saw Vertigo for the first time and found it visually stunning, but a little emotionally cold. I'm all for having unlikable characters as the leads of films, but you have to give us a good reason for their behavior for us to relate to it and find it compelling. Frankly, I just didn't think there was anything relatable about Stewart's character to keep me interested.

by Anonymousreply 6606/18/2020

Shadow of a Doubt is terrific, except for MacDonald Carey's horribly stilted reading of the line "I love you, Charlie. Love you desperately."

by Anonymousreply 6706/18/2020

"It certainly doesn't meet today's standards of behavior; Jimmy Stewart's dominating, controlling behavior came across as very off-putting, especially making Kim Novak change her manner of dress and appearance in order to mirror what was supposed to be that of a dead woman. It made us both kind of uncomfortable with our main character; it wasn't at all what we expected from a film from 1958.

So, by your purity test, there is no such thing as human obsession, guilt, lust? For a film appreciation course, no less. American education continues its downward spiral.

I adore all the Hitchcock classics, but particularly VERTIGO, THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, LIFEBOAT, NOTORIOUS, STAGE FRIGHT (Marlene !!), PSYCHO, TORN CURTAIN (a clever metaphor about marriage) and (despite the tacky rear-projections) the magnificent MARNIE. And oh, oh, oh, Bernard Herrmann!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 6806/18/2020

r68, you're making generalizations about "American education" because of what one person posted? Mmmkay.

by Anonymousreply 6906/18/2020

What makes Vertigo great is that Jimmy Stewart's behavior does not "meet today's standards of behavior" or the standards of the 50s.

Hitchcock at his best always explores characters whose ruthless need makes us uncomfortable. The scene in the remade Man Who Knew Too Much, where Stewart reveals to Day that he gave her sedatives without her knowing draws gasps. Few commercial filmakers of that time were willing to have characters transgress so casually.

by Anonymousreply 7006/18/2020

I love Vertigo, the whole film is both visually so beautiful, but also with a twisted story and as others have said, explores the protagonist's dark and obsessive side. Also Kim Novak has never looked better than in Vertigo with how they styled, basically "created" her for this movie (which kind of mirrors the storyline, so it's very interesting).

by Anonymousreply 7106/18/2020

Novak was far more stunning in Bell Book and Candle.

by Anonymousreply 7206/18/2020

I ADORE "VERTIGO"! And I'm as gay as a tree full of Ungaro spring frocks!

I love the atmosphere of San Francisco in the 1950s, full of elegant sophisticated people, and so beautifully realized that there are times I can *smell* the cool fog rolling into the scene. I love the performances, which was Stewart's best dramatic role, and Novak's career best. And most of all, I love the fact that it seems to start out as a gothic-themed romance, and but the romance turns freaky, twisted, and completely insane!

Probably Hitchcock's most deeply felt film, but I don't really want to think too much about what it says about his habit of turning a series of actresses into version of his "Hitchcock Blonde". I'd rather just enjoy the movie.

by Anonymousreply 7306/18/2020

R20 Stewart was a closet gay in "Vertigo" since no one seems like to mention that Kim Novak doesn't look very good with darker hair. He's just letting his gay good taste loose on her, as well as his Hitchcockian cock-lust for blondes.

by Anonymousreply 7406/18/2020

[quote]Psycho is my favorite and it still packs a punch to this day. […] I only recently saw Vertigo for the first time and found it visually stunning, but a little emotionally cold. I'm all for having unlikable characters as the leads of films, but you have to give us a good reason for their behavior for us to relate to it and find it compelling. Frankly, I just didn't think there was anything relatable about Stewart's character to keep me interested.

R66, you found Stewart's character - a lonely man obsessed with a beautiful mysterious blonde who enters his life - unrelatable, but you found Perkins - a mother-obsessed perv who murders young women and dumps their bodies in a swamp, and keeps his mother's dissicated corpse in the cellar - to be "relatable"?

by Anonymousreply 7506/18/2020

I guess you haven't read any other threads on Datalounge, r69.

by Anonymousreply 7606/18/2020

Definitely "Shadow of a Doubt." It brings murder right to the doorstep of a small-town-American family. As mentioned earlier, it has a great cast. Teresa Wright is superb as she moves from blind adoration of her uncle to the suspicion that he might be a murderer. For sheer camp value, though, it's hard to beat "Stage Fright," especially when Marlene Dietrich croaks her way through "The Waziest Gal in Town"...

by Anonymousreply 7706/18/2020

"Foreign Correspondent" has sexy Joel McCrea, terrific actors Herbert Marshall and George Sander, Leo Durocher's wife Larraine Day and future Kris Kringe, Edmund Gwenn as a murderous accomplice in a exciting plot with twists and turns, even turning into an Irwin Allen-style disaster film in its near-finale, written by Thornton WIlder of "Our Town" fame, with its great cast headed by Teresa Wright and Joseph Cotten, which is kind of like "Our Town" turned on its murderous head. Other faves are the "Man Who Knew Too Much" with excellent Doris Day and James Stewart, "Rear Window" with Stewart, Grace Kelly, Raymond Burr and Thelma Ritter, "Psycho" of course, is still great to watch even if you know what's coming, among other great ones.

by Anonymousreply 7806/18/2020

George Sanders, that is.

by Anonymousreply 7906/18/2020


Read the fucking thread before you post something like this.

Multiple people have expressed their love for "Shadow of a Doubt."

by Anonymousreply 8006/18/2020

I can appreciate it but I'm not fond of it.

by Anonymousreply 8106/18/2020

r76, if the datalounge is so abhorrent to you, why do you post here?

by Anonymousreply 8206/18/2020

Hitch is probably my favorite director, and I’ve been in love with many of his films ever since I first saw Psycho when I was in 2nd grade (my parents rented the VHS for me). The Birds is another favorite, as are Vertigo, Rear Window (though I haven’t watched that one as many times as others), Frenzy, and Family Plot.

I was too young when I saw North By Northwest and found the plot too confusing. I need to revisit it as an adult. I have the blu ray collection (NxNW omitted; it’s the British set) and recently got to see all the other classics that I never did when I was younger. I liked almost all of them, even Topaz for god’s sake!

I still have not seen Stage Fright, The Man Who Knew Too Much (either version), or Rebecca (!).

I will never understand why people talk shit about his final 2 movies. They’re both hilarious, and very Hitch. They’re certainly not worse than his earlier lesser efforts.

by Anonymousreply 8306/18/2020

I wanted to add that The Trouble With Harry is incredible! It’s another one I never saw when younger. Suspenseful plot, hilarious writing, pitch perfect performances by all the actors especially Forsythe.

by Anonymousreply 8406/18/2020

R17, you and I may be the only 2 people alive who've seen "Young And Innocent" (1937). It's a good movie in its own right, but I appreciate it because I loved the novel it's based on ("A Shilling For Candles" by Josephine Tey) and also because the heroine's name is so euphonious: Nova Pilbeam.

by Anonymousreply 8506/18/2020

That is not the character's name---that's the actress's name.

And I also love Young and Innocent. They used to run it on Channel 13 in NYC

by Anonymousreply 8606/18/2020

Also, she played the obnoxious kid in the original Man Who Knew Too Much.

by Anonymousreply 8706/18/2020

Yes, R86 -- I should have said the actress playing the heroine (I don't even remember the character's name).

by Anonymousreply 8806/18/2020

There are at least four. And the character's name was Erica.

by Anonymousreply 8906/18/2020

I love YOUNG & INNOCENT - it's in the public domain and also on YouTube.

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by Anonymousreply 9006/18/2020

Welcome, R89 and R90! I'm losing count, but it seems that we have enough for a game of bridge?

by Anonymousreply 9106/18/2020

I really enjoy Hitchcock but have never liked Vertigo. For my favorite, I'd go with The Birds, mainly because Tippi Hedren looks unbelievably perfect 60's glam and there are few better scenes in film than watching her sitting on the bench outside the school, smoking, hearing the kids singing that song, and watch her watch the crow fly over and turn around and see them on the playground equipment. Love it.

by Anonymousreply 9206/18/2020

Has anybody brought up Obsession?

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by Anonymousreply 9306/18/2020

I cant stand Jimmy stewart so no...........I do like kim novak altho I dont think she is a great actress I just like favorite Hitchcock is Marnie.............that and brids are really the only ones I am into of his. I read tippi heredons book and know hitch was a supreme shit to her.Because she wouldnt sleep with him............... she was stuck in a $600 a week contract until 1966 and only made 2 movies in her hottest time period. It seriously seriously damaged her career.

by Anonymousreply 9406/18/2020

I don't think my parents would have let me watch Psycho in second grade...

I haven't seen many people mention The Man Who Knew Too Much -Those that did seemed to appreciate Hitch's remake with Doris Day more than the original. I'm in that group myself -It was a totally unexpected role for Day, and she carried it beautifully. I've never been able to hear "Que Será, Será" the same since seeing it in its original context! This, and The Maltese Falcon, are my go-tos when arguing about the worthiness of remakes. Is there anyone who argues that the original version was better?

by Anonymousreply 9506/18/2020

I love Vertigo but IMHO, Hitchcock was at the top of his game with North by Northwest. Psycho and The Birds were experimental films — fascinating to study but but oddly detached. Marnie is a glorious train wreck but also a naughty pleasure. Nothing after that is of interest to me.

by Anonymousreply 9606/18/2020

R93, Obsession is complete camp and a lesser De Palma movie. Watch Body Double instead (a mix of Rear Window and Vertigo).

by Anonymousreply 9706/18/2020

Veritgo is an overrated rip-off of Black Narcissus and Kim Novak looks like a tranny.

by Anonymousreply 9806/18/2020

Vertigo isn't very similar to Black Narcissus at all, except for the ending

by Anonymousreply 9906/18/2020

Has anyone seen/like Suspicion?

by Anonymousreply 10006/18/2020

Believe me as an adult you'll find the plot of North by Northwest makes even less sense.

by Anonymousreply 10106/18/2020

I think Suspicion is decent. Not Hitch's best, but not exactly his worst, either.

by Anonymousreply 10206/18/2020

I guess I AM the only person alive who has seen The Paradine Case.

And as well according to this thread the only one who has seen Rich and Strange.

by Anonymousreply 10306/18/2020

I haven't seen Rich and Strange, yet. But I have seen The Paradine Case.

by Anonymousreply 10406/18/2020

I saw the Paradine Case years ago but I barely recall a single thing about it (which I guess is a good sign that it wasn't too memorable). To tell you how long ago this was, I rented it at my local Blockbuster.

by Anonymousreply 10506/18/2020

Vertigo was the one Hitchcock film I really disliked when I finally saw it - it had already been branded one of the greatest American films ever made. At the time I just found it overly melodramatic and the plot too contrived (even for Hitch).

I can appreciate the film’s formal beauty, and the time capsule appeal, and I can understand the argument of it being “a dream” since that solves one big problem I have - the impossible way Novak vanishes from that room - but the film still leaves me cold. I prefer the deep black humor of many of his other films.

by Anonymousreply 10606/18/2020

I love Vertigo! And one of the reasons I love it is that it's one of the few older man/younger woman movies that doesn't pretend that what beautiful young women really want is someone who went to school with their dad. When Novak begins to be drawn to Stewart, it's because he shows himself to be decent and brave, and then, she's hurt him and will put up with anything, however batshit, because of overwhelming guilt. It's a horrible relationship that leads them both into ruin, yet plays as totally believable.

Conversely, Novak and Stewart are totally unbelievable together in "Bell, Book, and Candle", made a couple of years later. She's a witch who could get any man in the world with her looks and her magic... and she choses HIM???

by Anonymousreply 10706/18/2020

THE PARADINE CASE (47) has only two fabulous things going for it: the set decoration and Louis Jourdan's beauty.

by Anonymousreply 10806/19/2020

My take on Vertigo is that it's about a man who can't achieve orgasm without killing the woman he's with. There is so much vaginal symbolism in the film -- how many times do both Stewart and Novak walk through an arch in the film, including the final scene where she falls to her death through one and he runs right through after her? The symbolism is as obvious as a train entering a tunnel. It's Hitch's most perverse of all his films.

A couple of posters above have mentioned the dreamlike quality of the film. One theory of the film is that when Scotty wakes up screaming from a nightmare in the institution midway through the film is that the dream never ends and the rest of the film is a continuation of his dream.

Hitch disliked both Novak and Stewart in the film. Novak was forced on him by the studio for her box office value after Vera Miles dropped out because she got pregnant. He was supposedly infuriated when she refused to get an abortion but he did use her afterwards more than once on his TV show as well as in Psycho. He told friends privately that he blamed the film's financial failure on Stewart's aging looks and they never worked together again.

by Anonymousreply 10906/19/2020

Rich and Strange was actually pretty good, for what it was. Loved Joan Barry in it, she was so good.

Young and Innocent wasn't bad but I felt that it was kind of a step back for Hitchcock, who had done so well with 39 Steps, Man Who Knew Too Much, and other films prior.

The only Hitchcock I genuinely don't like is Jamaica Inn. I think I've seen all of his films, even the silents.

by Anonymousreply 11006/19/2020

Isn't his first film lost?

by Anonymousreply 11106/19/2020

I just rewatched Vertigo and Shadow of a Doubt again. I agree with the poster who said Vertigo makes more sense if interpreted as a dream. I see it as vision Stewart has before falling himself off that ledge at the beginning.

Shadow of a Doubt is fabulous based on Joseph Cotton - he does so much with his face.

Also love Rebecca - Mrs Danvers is perfect. Wish they had kept the book ending, tho.

by Anonymousreply 11206/19/2020

R112 I love when Teresa Wright sees Joseph Cotten getting off the train, and he's wearing a big coat and is all hunched over, struggling to walk with a cane. Then as he hobbles away, he sees her, sheds the coat, stands up straight, and struts up to her, all smiles. So creepy!

Go to about the 1:50 mark:

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by Anonymousreply 11306/19/2020

Yeah! He’s hiding on the train, pretending to be ill so one sees him.

I also love Herb’s (Hume Cronyn) face when eveyone is thanking Uncle Charlie for saving Little Charlie and he’s like “it’s a good thing I stopped by!”

by Anonymousreply 11406/19/2020

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that one of the long recognized main themes of Vertigo is obsession and compulsion. That's why Hermann included a leitmotif from Tristan und Isolde scoring the love scenes.

by Anonymousreply 11506/19/2020

R115 I didn’t know that but it’s fascinating! Thanks! The score is also used in NYC’s Sleep No More, which basically Macbeth crossed with Rebecca. Both of those stories are about obsession and compulsion, too.

by Anonymousreply 11606/19/2020

Your very welcome, r116!

BTW, I'm the guy who posted above that I think the subtext and visual imagery suggest that Scotty has to kill the woman he's fucking to get off. I wasn't trying to be outlandish. I really read the film that way. I see a strong suggestion of necrophilia too: Scotty spends the second half of the film trying to fuck a dead girl.

A very perverse film indeed.

by Anonymousreply 11706/19/2020

I find Vertigo way more disturbing than Psycho.

by Anonymousreply 11806/19/2020

I scrolled up to reread the posts that were made this morning abunt The Birds and most of them are gone.

by Anonymousreply 11906/19/2020

Slightly OT, but since Lifeboat has been mentioned a number of times --

The lifeboat itself was built on a raised platform in the middle of the soundstage. To get in and out of it between takes, the crew would have to hoist Tallulah over the side. A problem arose. While being hoisted, she started spreading her legs open and Madame was wearing no panties.

It was causing such disruption on set that an Assistant Director finally had to take the problem to Hirchcock for instruction. Hitch thought about it and finally said "I don't know whether this is a matter for wardrobe or hairdressing."

by Anonymousreply 12006/19/2020

Thanks for the clip R113. Love how Uncle Charlie arrives in town under that huge cloud of black smoke, like his train just emerged from hell. So many wonderful details in Hitchcock movies.

by Anonymousreply 12106/19/2020

I wonder whether Tallulah learned that trick from Helen Lawson or vice versa.

by Anonymousreply 12206/19/2020

Yes, the score for "Vertigo" is largely an imitation from Wagner's "Tristan un Isolde", which doesn't make it any less good. It just makes it less original than the marvelous score for "Psycho", also by Bernard Hermann.

And yeah, "Vertigo" is all about Scotty "trying to fuck a dead girl". He takes absolutely no sexual interest in Judy until his insane makeover is complete, even though she was one of the few women of the age who didn't wear a bra. Which BTW was meant to make her look completely trashy. How she ever got hired at Bullock's I'll never know, that place was elegant and high-end when I knew it.

by Anonymousreply 12306/19/2020

"no one has mentioned that one of the long recognized main themes of Vertigo is obsession and compulsion."

See post 68.

by Anonymousreply 12406/19/2020

R119, it doesn't seem to me that any posts about The Birds are missing. If you see gaps in the number sequence, that might mean that the poster(s) who used the missing numbers have been added to your "ignore" list -- that's happened to me a few times, even though I've never "ignored" anyone. Go to "settings" and click "Ignored" (next to the last category) to see whether some posters are included in that section by mistake -- if so, you can "unignore" them.

by Anonymousreply 12506/19/2020

Rear Window cause I'm a peeping Tom

by Anonymousreply 12606/19/2020

R123 I didn't know that about the score and Tristan and Isolde, but very interesting to me since I appreciate Wagner's music. He was an asshole, but a genius composer. I have to watch Vertigo again, but I can see how this score would support the dreamlike quality. And also the theory about only being able to orgasm when the woman dies, since Tristan and Isolde is basically a very long musical foreplay and only culminates in the end together with the death symbolism, if I remember Stephen Fry's documentary about Wagner correctly.

by Anonymousreply 12706/19/2020

I took a class at ASU about Hitchcock films. We watched and re-watched the Psycho shower scene at least ten times. IMHO, he peaked with The Birds and should've stopped there. Everything after was forgettable.

My favorite Hitchcock story was when he was shooting Lifeboat. A grip complained that Tallulah Bankhead wasn't wearing panties on the set and every time she climbed into the lifeboat, she'd flash the crew. Hitchcock pondered the complaint and replied "I don't know if this is a problem for wardrobe or hairdressing?"

by Anonymousreply 12806/19/2020

Oh crap, someone else already told the Lifeboat story. Sorry!

by Anonymousreply 12906/19/2020

[quote] Yes, the score for "Vertigo" is largely an imitation from Wagner's "Tristan un Isolde", which doesn't make it any less good. It just makes it less original than the marvelous score for "Psycho", also by Bernard Herman.n.

R123, How dare you insult Bernard Hermann, one of our greatest and most original American composers, by saying his score was imitation Wagner. Hermann never needed to copy anybody and didn't, although he could deftly copy styles when dramatically appropriate.The single leitmotif from Tristan was a matter of homage and deliberate quotation to set the mood due to the subject matter. If you want imitation Wagner and Strauss, check out Steiner, Waxman and Korngold.

[quote]And yeah, "Vertigo" is all about Scotty "trying to fuck a dead girl". He takes absolutely no sexual interest in Judy until his insane makeover is complete, even though she was one of the few women of the age who didn't wear a bra. Which BTW was meant to make her look completely trashy. How she ever got hired at Bullock's I'll never know, that place was elegant and high-end when I knew it.

How blatant do you think Hitchcock could have been about such things in 1958? Vertigo is layer upon layer upon layer of obfuscation. But when an obsessive compulsive man desperately wants a certain woman, what do you think he ultimately wants her for?

Below is Judy's Transformation. I can't pinpoint the exact moment Wagner's theme begins because Hermann so deftly intertwines it into his own work and I am an dilettante musician. Much of same music is heard when Scotty and Judy embrace at the beach but not nearly so extensively developed.

Trivia: When Judy walks back into the room with her hair up, in a green neon haze, the film quality briefly becomes very blurry, much more so than the intended soft focus requires. That's because when the film was restored by Robert Harris and James Katz in the 1990s, that part of the original negative was unusable and best film element they could find to replace it was 16 generations removed from the original. It's amazing what they were able to do with what they had to work with.

by Anonymousreply 13006/19/2020

^ Sorry, the link!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 13106/19/2020

Re: Hermann, his score for Brian De Palma’s SISTERS is absolutely bonkers, and I recommend it to anyone who’s a fan of PSYCHO’s score, or really any other Hermann. You can listen to it on Apple Music; it might be on other streaming services, too, or YouTube. Just absolutely insane.

by Anonymousreply 13206/19/2020

[quote] How she ever got hired at Bullock's I'll never know, that place was elegant and high-end when I knew it.

I'll never know either, since she worked at Magnin's, not Bullock's.

by Anonymousreply 13306/19/2020

Hitchcock originally wanted a light, jazzy score for Psycho and was considering Henry Mancini. But Hermann got his hands on the script and begged, begged, begged to do the music. He eventually scored four scenes and hired an orchestra at his own expense to play it, including the shower scene with those shrieking high violins. Hitch was duly impressed and gave Hermann the job.

by Anonymousreply 13406/24/2020

Wow a Henry Mancini scored Psycho would be very interesting.

by Anonymousreply 13506/24/2020

Rear Window is a prime example of the use of criminal profiling.

by Anonymousreply 13606/24/2020

Lifeboat is my favorite, it's full of things and situations attitudes and actions that's a more relevant today than even during its original setting.

I have to agree with Ethel Mertz when she told Tallulah Bankhead that she cried all the way through the picture, I know exactly how she felt

by Anonymousreply 13706/27/2020
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