Biggest female movie star of all time ?

According to box-office receipts, Mary Pickford, Doris Day and Barbra Streisand are the most successful actresses of all time.

OP you spelled “Marilyn”wrong but I voted for her.Considering that she’s been dead for 6 decades and still remains one of the most famous women in the world speaks volumes.I love all these women,but for cultural impact no other female pop culture figure can touch her.And she was hugely popular and influential in her day as well.

No Crawford?Streep?Garland?

r3 Only ten choices are allowed. And which one listed in the poll would you replace with Crawford or Streep ?

Actually, and this rarely happens, OP put in his poll the women who probably deserve to be in it.

Marilyn, due to being recycled endlessly.

[quote] And which one listed in the poll would you replace with Crawford or Streep ?

Doris Day and Julia her last name escapes me the one with the extra teeth.

R3 DA Doris Day, Julia Roberts and Mary Pickford. Judy Garland and Meryl Streep are way bigger stars than them. Even Crawford is. Hell, Angelina Jolie is and will be for the future generations way more popular than Julia Roberts

[R4]OP okay fair enough about the 10 choices.And it is a good list.I would take out Doris Day and Ingrid Bergman actually.Day was immensely popular at the box-office in her heyday,but so was Betty Grable and no one is going to put her on a list of all time greats.I don’t really think her legacy has held up.

I don’t dispute that Bergman was and is a legend,but if I had to make a choice it would be her.Personally I always found her a little bland.Others will disagree of course.

I find it interesting that Audrey Hepburn never made the Top 10 Box Office Stars list in her long and illustrious career.Just goes to show you that Box Office popularity has relatively little to do with lasting legacy.And when you peruse the list,it’s peppered with names like Bo Derek!

I do think Streep is a glaring omission from your list.Very few women in Hollywood history have matched her for acclaim,box-office,fame and longevity.

#11 was a tie between Pia Zadora and Brendad Ickson.

If the criteria is "movie star" then Elizabeth Taylor. From child star to ingenue, vamp, the marriages, children, health and triumph in the end on her own terms eclipses even Marylin who never aged.

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If you want to talk in terms of sheer iconography and enduring star power it’s Marilyn, without question. Everyone else on that list with maybe the exception of Julia Roberts has pretty much faded into obscurity in the consciousness of the general public. MM in death continues to live on as a part of Americana and a symbol of golden era Hollywood glamor far and beyond what she ever was in life.

[R11]If “biggest”means most lastingly famous,then Marilyn gets the title I think.Liz would probably be a very close second.But why compare really.Everyone still knows who these women are.Audrey too.I find that strangely comforting.

Ask the average millennial/Gen-Xer and they wouldn’t have a clue who Day,Pickford or Bergman are.I think even fabulous diva legends Bette Davis and Garbo would be a stretch.Not that that’s a good thing.Just that fame is a fickle beast and never more so than our current craven insta-fame, blink or you’ll miss me,consumer culture.

I almost feel sorry for Jennifer Lawrence.She’s no sooner hailed as the greatest thing since the invention of movies,then she’s an overexposed hack who people want to throttle.Especially here on DL.The poor girl has barely had time to breathe.Isn’t it a little early to be writing her off?It’s got to be the social media age.These girls aren’t allowed any sense of mystery.The beast has never been hungrier.

They say Mary Pickford was the most famous and beloved woman in the world in her heyday.Her memory and legacy deserve preservation.As does everyone on this list.Some of us still give a crap about that.And the torch will be carried.But who to pass it to?Kylie Jenner “fans”?

MY movies have made more money than all of these other bitches combined. Fuck you, OP

Katharine Hepburn

Where the hell am I ?

Try the lesbian section Sandra.

Lens Dunham.

I scrolled your poll and couldn't find Bette Davis, OP. And no poll on the biggest female movie star can really be taken seriously with her exclusion.

Crawford should probably be in there too; with she and Davis replacing maybe both Hepburns (neither were ever as big Joan and Bette).

Really bad poll, OP.

They're all fat.

Yes there’s no place for julia but is Meryl is a great actress but is she really a star? Doris is a mediocre actress but was a star. Ditto marilyn. Op is not talking about great actresses.

Liz - she was the biggest and most famous.

Gotta love Doris Day, one of the all time greats!

Bump

R20 You are high

This is a bit of a bullshit poll, too many eras being crossed. Mary Pickford was Americas sweetheart until talkies became popular, Viviene Leigh was as good an actress if not better than most names posted. Marilyn?!? She had her charms but no way she could pull off Eleanor of Aquitaine, or Taylors Martha. But I wouldn't say K. Hepburn is better than Taylor, because they brought such different performances to their material.

Meryl deserves to be there based on the fact most of her top 10 highest grossers came when she was well over 55. She got lots of movies financed and went from highly lauded actress to unlikely movie STAR. .

The Devil Wears Prada - €330 m

Mamma Mia - €610 m

It's Complicated - €220 m

Into The Woods - €210 m

The Post - €185 m

Julia & Julia, The Iron Lady, Hope Springs all made well over €100m.

Depends on how you define it. In terms of cultural influence, Marilyn is a strong contender. How many books and movies have been made about her over the years?

On that note, I've always found something about Monroes acting style and mannerisms off putting verging on repulsive. I adore most old Hollywood actors and actresses but something about her makes my skin crawl. Putting aside my visceral reaction, Monroe would probably be considered one of the biggest female stars of all time.

If a lot of Meryl's movies (not Mamma Mia or Prada) would not have been greenlit with any of her contempories and certainly would have not made such returns. Even that Ricki movie made 50 million!

Bette Midler in Hope Springs?

Sarandon as Maggie T?

Barbra Streisand:

Won every major showbiz award out there.

A first rate singer, actress, director, producer, and interior decorator.

A huge sex symbol in Hollywood in the 70's With iconic looks that have been imitated but not duplicated

Has a musical catalogue that has run the gamut of popular song in the 1900's.

Babs was a huge sex symbol? What are you smoking?!

r31 She was Doris Day-lite in her hey day. Her cultural impact isn't big and I don't think she is remembered or celebrated as much as any of these actresses.

I'd put her in second league though which also includes Julie Andrews, Jane Fonda, Meryl Streep, Jodie Foster, Shirley Maclaine, Shirley Temple, Sandra Bullock (barely makes the second league), Judy Garland(she almost made the first league), Marlene Dietrich, Joan Crawford, Vivien Leigh, Sophia Loren, Ginger Rogers.

Barbra has had a much bigger cultural impact than Doris Day, Mary Pickford and Ingrid Bergman.

.

Meryl, since according to some on here she was solely responsible for all sexual misconduct in Hollywood being covered up and condoned until #MeToo

[quote]Meryl deserves to be there based on the fact most of her top 10 highest grossers came when she was well over 55.

Marie Dressler was the top box office star in the country at 62 and 63 years of age in the early 1930's. She was so popular, Time Magazine put her on its cover, which was practically unheard of for an entertainer at the time.

Liz is the epitome of celebrity and star power for the glamour, the messiness and the desirability. She was a decent actress particularly in Virginia Wolf where she was really good. She was the first star to get $1m salary for Cleopatra!

Is Jason posting here?

Princess Diana!

R31 Barba Streisand was sex symbol in Hollywood in the 70's? On what planet?

R40 in her personal mall "Planey Hollywood"

41 posts and no highly warranted “Oh, dear!” for Marylin?

Next, OP, do one for television’s biggest star of all time.

R42: See r2.

As the OP clearly stated it’s not about who’s a “great actress”.So declaring that Marilyn couldn’t pull off Martha in Virginia Woolf or Elinor of Aquitaine is completely missing the point.This is about star quality and enduring fame.That’s the only way a list like this makes any sense at all.And if that WAS the criteria then leaving out Meryl Streep would be a glaring omission.But she is also unquestionably a Movie Star.

Streep is that rare bird-the great character actress who is also a beloved star to millions of people.Her talent and versatility are unquestioned,whether she’s your cup of tea or not.Her box-office office standing is impressive by any measurable standard.And she’s been world famous since the 1970s.

I understand the argument for Streisand.She dominated her era like few women have,before or since.She was often the only woman in the top 10.However she remains a polarizing figure then and now.Jane Fonda was also right up there.This list strangely ignores the 60’s to the 80’s.And Streisand and Fonda remain very famous to this day.

Also if you’re talking classic era movie stars,where are Dietrich,Swanson and Crawford?Barbara Stanwyck and Judy Garland?I know it’s all just in good fun,but maybe a comprehensive list can’t be kept to just 10.

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With I think female movie star, I think Julia Roberts, Meg Ryan, Demi Moore, Jodie Foster, Sharon Stone - all those 90s actresses they built movies around, for better or worse. They don’t do that anymore.

R47 it’s like everything else that’s become overly corporatized they want you attached to a brand, a logo or a franchise. If you’re attached to an individual it gives the individual too much power. There will never be any success like the 90s in the US again. Individual success will be flash in the pan. There are too many ways to consume and too many types of content. Everyone under 45 has had their brain re-wired by technology to the pony that they function like Methheads. Even the Kardashian success will never be replicated, the world moves too fast and the attention span isn’t there. They’ve even moved away from individual Reality TV, no more Paris Hilton shows it’s all franchise and everyone is replaceable. Unless we stop them the corporations will always win.

Am I the only one for whom the search function isn't working?

I’m torn between Audrey and Judy Landers.

If you're counting mystique and stature: Greta Garbo

Acting talent: Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Judy Garland, Spencer Tracy, Marlon Brando, Peter O'Toole, Barbra Streisand, Jessica Lange

LOL Barbra is no actress

It’s Hepburn. She maintained her fame, critical reputation and box office clout for far longer than any other actress, with only a few stumbles. Her fame wasn’t buoyed by tabloid sensationalism, it was because she had an amazing run of popular and critical hits that remain classics decades after her career ended.

Now, if you’re talking about the biggest celebrity, it’s either Monroe or Taylor, depending on how one values longevity. Monroe is more iconic because her image is preserved as a young woman, but Monroe gave us decades as a public figure, and did a great deal of good with her fame.

OP, Why are you asking us this question?

You can get the statistics about "movie success and box office pull" from the Motion Picture Distributors Organisation. It may be on IMDB.

R9 I'm quibbling with your statement that Audrey Hepburn had a 'long and illustrious career'. She was the most in-demand woman for those years between 1954 and 1966. She had the first pick of everything but that demand dried up in '67. She hated her first husband in '67 and made the disastrous 'Two For the Road' out of spite.

It's obviously Gaga.

A true movie star has a specific and iconic look, which Streep doesn’t have. I say it’s Marilyn followed by Liz, then Kate H., then Audrey H. These aren’t my personal favorites, but they are the superstars that everyone still copies.

Vivien Leigh. For better or worse, Scarlett O’Hara is the most iconic female role of all time. The measure by which all that came after would be measured. Had she not ran off with Olivier to do stage she would have surpassed Elizabeth Taylor.

Maria Montez

R57 Vivien was a woman and a wife. Larry had to do his duty and return home while Britain faced its greatest peril.

If by biggest you mean number 1 ranking box office star, it's Doris Day.

But if it's star in the sense of who the general public would name as the biggest of all time, I'd say it's Monroe or Taylor.

The question is who is the biggest MOVIE STAR, not the greatest actress. I haven't seen many umbrellas, t-shirts, purses, or bed spreads with Liz Taylor's face on them.

Streep is a character actress who became a movie star.

R62, M is a frau who became strangely overrated.

In a sense Chrissy Metz has this lock, stock, and all.

I miss bette midler’s movie star run (Down and Out in Beverly Hills, Ruthless People, Outrageous Fortune, Big Business, First Wives Club). Those movies made MONEY.

The standards for the polling were set by the Quigley Publishing Company. They published a poll, which became known as the "Top Ten Money Making Stars Poll", from a questionnaire sent to movie exhibitors every year between 1915 and 2013 by Quigley Publishing Company. The list was based on a poll of movie theater owners, who were asked to name who they felt were the previous year's top 10 moneymaking stars. The Top 10 Poll, which appeared annually in Quigley's Motion Picture Herald and The Motion Picture Almanac, was long regarded as one of the most reliable barometers of a movie star's box-office power, as film exhibitors base their decisions on one economic criterion: those stars who will bring patrons into their theaters.

Have at it, kids. It's amazing who is on the list and who isn'r.

^. Those lists depress me.

But I suppose I should know that the mob has NO discernment at all.

1988 Bette was #7 and the highest female

Leaving out child star Shirley Temple , Doris Day has the most years ranked number 1 .

R66 At that link, interesting to see top 10 stars of the 1930s. At 1937 and '38 is Jane Withers. The only actor still alive on the 1930s list. Margaret O'Brien is the only one left on the 1940s list. Kim Novak and Pat Boone only ones still with us from the 1950s.

It has to be Taylor. She had talent, drama, chops, everything. I have no real affinity for Marylin. I get why she's huge. But she's not for me.

For modern times? I would say Jodie, Julia or Sandra. They have so many huge hits.

Meryl is the best actress (I prefer Lange, but that's a close choice).

How the hell is or was Jodie a huge movie star?

Do they have to be dead?

Movie star magic and mystique: Greta Garbo!

if the criteria is biggest "star" who has stood the test of time and is still famously known - you should remove Pickford, Bergman, Garbo and probably both Hepburns from the list. No one knows or cares about Mary Pickford at all anymore and most individuals under the age of 50 or so have likely heard of Katharine, Audrey, Greta and Ingrid - but might not be able to spot them in a lineup. Of the remaining names, Monroe would win hands down and Liz a close second. Julia would have been up there with Marilyn 2 to 3 decades ago - but no longer.

Olivia de Havilland

This Oscar winning legend is still alive & kicking at 104!!

Go Olivia !!

A movie star is glamorous

Meryl is one of the finest and most acclaimed actresses ever however she’s lacks any sort of glamour; FACT

Olivia has divided her golden years between Switzerland and Paris !! That, my dear, is living glamorously

Meryl is a frau truth be told

Olivia "I stopped believing in God 'cause I lost the Oscar to the maid" DeHavilland hasn't been a bona fide STAR since the 1940s R77 you twat

Poll so white. This thread needs to be canceled.

I would replace Doris Day and Mary Pickford with Angelina Jolie and Meryl Streep. Also, this is one of those sad things where a woman of color can't even be included because of all the lack of opportunities for decades.

Diana Ross is an iconic star for decades now

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R82, you’re bumping a thread when the last response was 15 minutes ago?

Obviously it’s Chrissy Metz and no one else comes close. She’s bigger than all of them combined.

Precious

Julie Andrews doesn't get her due enough but she was big !!

r81, Ms. Ross is a star no doubt, but you wouldn't characterize her as a MOVIE star despite having a few box office hits, one with critical acclaim, in the 70s. Thats like saying Beyonce is a movie star, although she was the highest paid black actress of the past decade. They are so much more than that, and considered entertainers/pop divas first and foremost.

R80 Angelina Jolie has never been a star of the big screen (or small). A star of the tabloid press yes but that is her limit.

There really aren't any huge female actresses right now. If you look at the Forbes 100 that was released a couple weeks ago, the only two actresses who made the highest-earners list were #71 Sofia Vergara and #99 Angelina Jolie. Jennifer Lopez made the list, but that was due to her concerts. Scarlett Johanssen didn't make it this year since there were no Marvel films.

Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock were the last two huge actresses in Hollywood. Now that they're both aging out of leading lady status, I don't see anyone currently on the scene who can take their place. Margot Robbie probably has the best shot right now since she's both gorgeous and a good actress. I'm not sure she has the personality to do it.

Margot is a no-go. Too bitchy blonde, not in a crazy Sharon Stone way either.

Have you sodomites forgotten what a STAH looks like..

I agree R90. I don't find her to be a terribly great actress either. She's relatively dull and lifeless IMO; Margot has no "spark" on screen at all. The most recent female star who possessed the winning combo of looks, talent and infectious personality was Jennifer Lawrence. Sadly, she fizzled literally minutes after she ascended to her peak earnings and her ability to carry a movie. IMO, Winter's Bone (a decade ago) was her peak performance-wise and also one of her earliest star roles. Silver Linings Playbook and American Hustle were very solid performances, but not quite the same phenomenal level of perfection that she pulled off with Winter's. What exactly happened to her fame has been exhaustively speculated, but whatever the cause of her rabid decline - no one in my opinion has come closer to following the "Julia Roberts" trajectory of female star power (except for Bullock mentioned above). Emma Stone and Margot Robbie are both too niche (for different reasons) to become super-star-level-huge.

This thread is the ultimate in “opinions are like assholes-everyone’s got one”.I love the assured take-downs of people like Margot Robbie and Jennifer Lawrence by the crystal ball holders who just know for a fact that they’re all washed up in their twenties.

Katherine Hepburn and Joan Crawford were famously labelled box-office poison in the 1930s.Both went on to decades more of a top-tiered career.The point is that a career in the movie business is by it’s nature going to have peaks and valleys.Robbie and Lawrence’s next one could be huge-or not.They’re young and both have proven themselves multiple times with both big box-office and critical acclaim..And some duds.There is something misogynistic about these dismissals.Matt Damon for example is allowed multiple duds in a row without losing his standing in the ranks in the least.Margot Robbie has just come off huge hit Once Upon A Time in Hollywood where she was nominated for an Academy Award.Apparently that’s meaningless to the average DLer.

[R92]Where is the evidence of Jennifer Lawrence’s “rabid(rapid?) decline”?Why should she be held to a WAY higher standard than Pitt or Damon or Ben Affleck or any other male actor you can name?And if Julia Roberts or Angelina Jolie can’t rest on their laurels then who should be allowed to?

I’m old enough to remember reading magazines back in the 90s that were completely dismissive of Charlize Theron.Basically saying that she was being shoved down our disinterested throats by an over-enthusiastic Hollywood.Then she went on to win the Oscar for Monster and has basically never looked back.Completely proving the naysayers wrong about a clearly very talented and beautiful woman.

We can ruminate all we want about the dead legends.That’s easy.But definitive statements about the current women just proves William Goldman’s old adage about Hollywood-nobody knows anything.

From a non US perspective, Taylor is the only one in that list that stands the test of time.

I would say it's definitely Marilyn Monroe. Her image is still everywhere in our culture. You can show a picture of Marilyn Monroe to any teenager or twentysomething in 2020 and they'll immediately know who she is. With the exception of Elvis Presley, I don't think the average teen/twentysomething would be able to instantly recognize anyone else who was famous 60 years ago.

Cult status- Marilyn Monroe Considered best actress- K. Hepburn (followed by Meryl Streep...ugh)

Bette Davis had more range than Katharine Hepburn.

^ But Hepburn was willing to play opposite strong men. Bette always had weaklings.

R74 I have soft spot for Greta but her fellow-Swede Ingrid had a soaring intelligence and lasted almost 25 years at the top.

R93 - I should have mentioned that I am a big Jennifer Lawrence fan (much more than any other current well-known actress and more so than most of the women on this list in fact). Her decline however is hard to debate with a string of box office duds one after the next (Joy, Mother!, Red Sparrow, etc.) that do not help setting her up for nabbing another great character like the ones that she played in Winter's Bone, Silver Linings Playbook, etc. She has the goods (as I mentioned) - stunning beauty, obvious talent and an amazingly infectious personality (needed to be a "star"). I have thoroughly enjoyed some of her less than praised films as well - Passengers for instance. But love her or not (I do) - she has declined quickly in a way that we did not see happening to movie star actresses in the 80's or 90's. I don't see this as her fault - more due to a fickle industry that has a very short attention span these days. Moviegoers no longer seem to have much in the way of loyalty to actors - not in the way that we used to see. In comparison to male industry talent - I think that most would consider Jennifer a far greater star than Matt Damon ever was.

[R92]Fair enough,butI think you’ve missed my point.Which is that every actor in Hollywood has their hits and misses and that’s just the name of the game.Sure Jennifer Lawrence is in a bit of a slump.I’m saying that it’s way too early to right her off completely.Which you,(fan or not),seem to be doing.And obviously on DL you’re not alone.I think this is sexism pure and simple.

Let’s take Brad Pitt as an example.Before Once Upon A Time in Hollywood,his last 7 credits as an actor have included Deadpool 2,War Machine,Allied,The Big Short,By the Sea,Fury and The Counselor.Big Short got some critical acclaim but none of these could be called trail-blazers or box-office blockbusters.Nobody cares.He’s had his hits and is unquestionably one of the world’s biggest movie stars.Why isn’t Jennifer Lawrence given the same grace?She has literally brought hundreds of millions of dollars into an industry that badly needs stars.

^And in the beating a dead horse to death department,his follow up to OUATIH,Ad Astra only made $50 million domestically at the box office.:)

It’s Marilyn.Next.

This ray of sunshine.

Actually I think Jlo deserves to be included on this list. She evokes all that glamor, star power and her movies actually make money. They might be critically panned but most of her "bombs" the past decade were actually very profitable.

R94 No one under 30 knows or cares about her. Marilyn on the other hand.

Monroe winning this is a joke.

Movies, AIDS work, jewelry, perfume, coffee-table books, Andy Warhol painting, marriages, Academy Award---

It's Elizabeth.

To 're-read OP's premise: "at their peak."

Marilyn sang for and had an affair with the President of the United States. Elizabeth was condemned by the Pope. TIE.

Marilyn sang for our troops. Elizabeth worked to 're-stigmatized and raise research money for AIDS with her own Elizabeth Taylor Foundation, still extant. WIN: Elizabeth.

Cultural milestone: Marilyn was on the 1st cover of "Playboy." Elizabeth commanded the first million-dollar salary for an actress in movie history ("Cleopatra"). TIE.

Both women's faces adorn modern crotchless, handbags, posters, etc. TIE.

Both women's visages were painted by Warhol. TIE.

Awards: Marilyn = 1 Golden Globe. Elizabeth = 2 Academy Awards for "Best Actress," 2 Golden Globes. WIN: Elizabeth.

Perfumes: Marilyn wore Chanel #5. Elizabeth launched a billion-dollar perfume empire with her own signature products, notably the still enormously successful "White Diamonds." WIN: Elizabeth.

AFI "Top 25 Female Screen Legends": #6 = Marilyn. #7 = Elizabeth. WIN: Marilyn.

Husbands: Marilyn married two American icons: Joltin' Joe DiMaggio and esteemed playwright Arthur Miller. Elizabeth married a hotel heir, an award-winning movie producer, actors, a singer, a U.S. Senator, and a fellow rehab patient. WIN: Marilyn, for quality over quantity.

Death: Marilyn is of course still a mystery. Suicide, or "suicided" by powerful political entities? Lived fast, died young (36). Still beautiful, still working. Elizabeth lived long enough to become frail and wheelchair-bound. Died at age 79. WIN: Marilyn, because of the political and sexual intrigue that yet engenders books.

Over-all, though, I'm sticking with Elizabeth Taylor, for her lasting impact with her humanitarian work and her perfume empire.

DE-stigmatize, not RE-stigmatize!

Its funny. This thread really show how women are fetishcized, and trivialized. Monroe IS the most iconic female movie star of all time. And its kind of sad, but she was a young troubled woman, a junkie, and though quite talented is not even among the top 10 best actresses of all time. But she was sex kitten, a fox.

^. Yes, the mob want females to be troubled, junkie sex-cushions.

They're less keen on this exemplar of capable, determined intelligence—

In her prime or at her peak, my choice would be Clara Bow.

She was enormously popular. If her name were on the marquee, people flocked to the movie theaters to see Clara Bow. It didn't matter what the movie was about, they went to see her.

Her movies would fill theaters 5, 6, 7 times a day. Theater owners couldn't wait for the next Clara Bow movie.

Though her career was short, she made a tremendous impact on the film industry.

OMG. R109 here. "Crotchless" was supposed to be "tchotchkes"!

Was Ann Bancroft considered a big star in her day ?

[R111]You know what else is funny?How you reduce Monroe to some worst estimate of her and then blame “us” for the trivialization of women.If you looked a little deeper maybe you’d find that there’s more to her story than the surface stereotypes that you traffic in.

Obviously her beauty and her tragedy are a big part of her legend.But the same argument can be made for James Dean,Rudolph Valentino,Rock Hudson, or any number of male “legends” you could name.So it’s hardly a gender specific phenomenon.And lots of famous “hot” performers have died young and tragically.You don’t see them on postage stamps.

There’s a lot more substance to the Marilyn legend for some of us who have cared to look.She was one of the first women to take on the studio system head on-and she won.In a true blow against a rigid patriarchal system of oppression.She bravely stood by Arthur Miller when he was a target of the McCarthy witch-hunts in the 50’s(at a time when that could have easily ruined her career).She was ahead of her time on race-relations in the arch-conservative times she lived in.Google Ella Fitzgerald/Marilyn Monroe.Her pursuit of intellectual left-wing causes was admirable at a time when she was roundly knocked for it in the press.She spoke out about her own sexual abuse at a time when that was almost virtually unheard of.She loved books and wrote poetry.And she genuinely cared about her craft and left Hollywood at the height of her career to study at the Actor’s Studio to improve and deepen it.

She also literally came from nothing and make something substantive out of her life.Against enormous odds.People admire that about her to this day.Some of us respond to her much talked about vulnerability because we see someone who could have given up,but kept on trying.That she eventually succumbed to her demons is yes,tragic.And it saddens us.But she sure left something fabulous in her wake.That is the essence of the Marilyn legend to me.But do go on and reduce her to a drug-addled,empty-headed sex kitten if that makes you feel better.

[R112]^See above.Think outside the box.

[quote] She was one of the first women to take on the studio system head on-and she won.

There was an actress whose lawsuit broke the whole damn studio system, well before Marilyn.

Famous sister, did a classic movie or two. I don’t think anyone on DataLounge has heard of her.

[R118]You’re talking about Olivia deHaviland I believe.And her famous sister is Joan Fontaine.So I’m one DLer who has “heard” of her.And I’m not sure what your point is.I said Marilyn was “one” of the first woman,not the first.Her move was still trail-blazing in the context of Hollywood history..

It should have been obvious that anyone who can’t understand how to put a space after a period wouldn’t understand many other things, either.

So who’s on the 2nd tier top 10 list?

Based on other entries on this thread:

1.Meryl Streep? 2.Joan Crawford? 3.Marlene Dietrich? 4.Barbra Streisand? 5.Angelina Jolie? 6.Sophia Loren? 7.Ava Gardner? 8.Barbara Stanwyck? 9.Judy Garland? 10.Jane Fonda?

[R115]Yes,after an Oscar win for The Miracle Worker and the iconic role of Mrs. Robinson in The Graduate,I think it’s safe to say that Anne Bancroft was pretty big.But it’s pretty clear as well that she remains one of those that were “big in her day”,instead of an all-time great.Like Norma Shearer or Michelle Pfeiffer.It remains a bit of a mystery as to what the difference is between the two.

R121, Ava Gardner never carried a film on her own.

R122, "The Pumpkin Eater" earned her numerous honors.

^Fair enough.So who would you replace her with?

How about some love on this thread for Rita Hayworth?

R125, Lana Turner, who carried numerous films on her own.

Actually I’m holding out hope that Pfeiffer will make a big comeback and take her place among the greats.At her peak she was peerless.That rare combination of beauty,talent,charisma and mystery.The Fabulous Baker Boys is one of my all-time faves.

[R127]Interesting choice.Turner’s career at the top certainly proved more durable than Gardner’s did.

r121 Julie Andrews, Sandra Bullock

[R130]Yup.Worthy choices.

Jean Harlow is seriously underrated as a star and comedienne.

Marilyn never had any kind of power. So the only choice is Elizabeth Taylor.

R132, She was a major star, but her popularity always escaped me.

[R133]What the fuck are you talking about?Marilyn had power and she used it.A lot of people in Hollywood hated and resented her for it.Have you ever read anything about this woman?Try a better argument.

Marilyn may be the darling of fat women who think that personality disorders are a substitute for personality, but the truth is that she never carried a movie that has really endured. Of her two classics, one is a bit part (All About Eve), while Lemmon and Curtis do most of the work in Some Like It Hot.

But, no, her fans just have to insist that this unstable, destructive addict was really a misunderstood genius, a combination of Susan Sontag and Sarah Bernhardt in the body of a pin-up model who just never got the chance to shine. Ridiculous.

R136, it wasn't at all a bit part Monroe had in ALL ABOUT EVE. She was in a few scenes and had lines.

Of course Monroe is the biggest female of all time. She's a brand 58 years after her death.

*Of course Monroe is the biggest female movie star of all time.

Just because she has more fame now than the other actors, doesnt mean she is the biggest star of all time. That's rubbish. What if she fades into obscurity 2 or three decades from now ?

Lasting name recognition alone doesn't make you the biggest star. It's one of the criteria. Kate Hepburn will always be a legend for her Oscars, no matter what.

If Monroe fades into obscurity 2 or 3 decades from now, that will still mean she was an iconic brand for nearly 90 years.

And as it has been said repeatedly, talent (like number of Oscar wins) doesn't make someone the biggest movie star of all time, but Katharine Hepburn had my vote.

Exactly, R139. Just because Marilyn has more iconography than other stars, that doesn’t mean she was the greatest movie star, which you can’t judge without taking into account the movies.

Marilyn might be the biggest celebrity, but that makes her more Kim Kardashian than Katharine Hepburn.

Hold your horses, R133. What kind of power this poor girl had? She died a mess because she was unable to control the narrative of her image and her personal life. She was used and abused by all kinds of men throughout her life. She was a strumpet who spent the last months of her life as a whore for the Kennedy brothers. She didn't want to make Let's Make Love and was forced to by her studio. She was fired from her last movie unceremoniously by said studio. The list of her woes and misfortunes goes on and on. She was a powerless woman. Taylor, on the other hand, was power incarnate and conquered all her enemies. You can't really compare their trajectories. MM was a loser during all her sad and tragic life and died as such. Elizabeth Taylor died the undisputed Queen of Hollywood. (Mary, I know...)

The only power Marilyn had was her pussy. When it sagged, she was over and died.

r140 Kate wasn't a star just for her Oscars/talent.

Besides the fact that no one is close to breaking her Oscar record, Kate was a major box office star for 6 decades in Hollywood and she starred in some of the most iconic movies of all time. She also set trends for being very idiosyncratic and for fashion. She's considered as the greatest for many reasons, not just one.

Bette Davis was a better actress and a more interesting personality than Katharine Hepburn.

[R136],[142]Careful.your misogyny is on full display.Your reduction of a beloved American figure to a talentless,used up whore says more about you then it does her.And no one is saying Elizabeth Taylor doesn’t deserve her accolades.But I could use her own drug addictions,struggles with obesity,8 failed marriages,long list of box office bombs,many illnesses,infidelities,rather gross betrayal of her close friends like Debbie Reynolds and questionable parenting skills to describe a woman who was rather less than the warrior woman you describe..I don’t though.Because obviously Elizabeth Taylor is unquestionably a great Movie Star.So is Marilyn Monroe.You taking the less savoury aspects of her life and saying that negates her standing completely is bizarrely unfair.You need to calm down a little.

I took issue with the use of the word “power”.As I’ve stated before,Monroe left 20th Century Fox at the height of her career to hold out for better parts and better films.The studio capitulated completely.She got script and director approval,more money and her choice of upcoming projects.That is power.Star power.She used her fame to further causes that she believed in.And you really think her contributions to Some Like It Hot are negligible?Billy Wilder himself would disagree with you.That Gentlemen Prefer Blondes isn’t a classic?The Misfits?Bus Stop?No accounting for taste I guess.And yes she was fired from her last movie by her studio.But just before she died,she was hired back at a larger salary.As I said,dig deeper or shut the fuck up.

You’re repeating tired National Enquirer myths about her as fact.There’s actually very little concrete proof of her involvement with the Kennedy’s beyond a possible one night stand or two.It’s all speculation.And has it never occurred to people like you that she may have gotten a vicarious thrill or two of her own by fucking a president?Can’t that in itself be considered a type of power?Why should sexual power be denigrated in the first place?

I guess there are always going to be people like you that can’t talk about Monroe as anything but a brainless victim.But if you think her fans are just “fat women who mistake personality for personality disorders” you are being willfully delusional and I think you know thatAnd bravo on your cutesy DL cuntiness!Marilyn’s appeal survives across a wide assortment of demographics.And the American Film Institute,critics like Roger Egbert and countless film scholars might take umbrage with that as well.Please go ahead and hold on to your quaint little opinions.Like assholes,we’ve all got one.

[R142]And “strumpet?!Haven’t heard that one in awhile.What are you,120?

Lana Turner became the new Joan Crawford in a way. As Joan got older, all the roles that would have gone to Crawford during her heyday now went to Turner. Peyton Place, Madame X and Imitation of Life would have all been Joan Crawford pics a decade earlier.

R124, R125 The Pumpkin Eater" was planned for Patricia Neal.

I though Bancroft (aka Anna Maria Louisa Italiano) with her long nose looked a bit uncomfortable in this English film married to Peter Finch and fending off Maggie Smith.

But this film was all about uncomfortability as the main character descended into her own personal nightmare.

No, R145, Davis was neither.

Yes r150 she was. She had a much bigger range than Hepburn. She was also a riot on talk shows. Hepburn was rather stodgy and uptight.

[quote]Marilyn?!? She had her charms but no way she could pull off Eleanor of Aquitaine, or Taylors Martha.

Well, according to Actor Studio scene partner Maureen Stapleton, Marilyn's Anna Christie performance got spontaneous applause when finished. The ONLY time it happened in Studio history.

Bus Stop, Prince and Showgirl, Misfits...you sell Monroe short on her capabilities.

I agree that Bette Davis had more range than Hepburn.But KH had more star quality.Both were undeniably Movie Stars.

Can anyone picture Hepburn in "Now, Voyager", "All About Eve" or "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?"?

Bette Davis had more star quality than nearly anyone else. She was a fascinating personality and talent. Even more incredible given the fact that she was never beautiful, she wasn't even pretty. She was almost homely. Still, she commanded the screen and was immensely witty and enjoyable in interviews.

[R154]No.But it’s also hard to imagine Bette Davis in those Hepburn screwball comedies of the 30s and 40s,where she was a delight.They had very different styles and I think it’s pretty futile to compare their “greatness”.If ever there were 2 women who don’t need to have their reputations defended,it’s those two.Both of them are pretty much above reproach.

[R152]Agreed.

Davis could play a more diverse set of characters, but mostly within one genre. She couldn’t excel in movies that weren’t straight dramas. Hepburn played far fewer types, but those types could fit perfectly in a wider range of genres, whether drama, comedy or even adventure films. They were both great, but in very different ways.

No one cares about your geriatric diatribe regarding MM R146. She was a talentless whore who never received an Academy Award Nomination. She killed herself. She was a mess. She was exploited by everyone in her life, including Lee Strasberg and 20th Century Fox. She never had power. Deal with it., gramps.

Davis could not have played Mary Tyrone in Long Day's Journey Into Night. Hepburn was the best actress of her generation.

R159, why are you invested in tearing down someone who's been dead for 58 years, huh, Mary? You type cunt.

Davis could've played Eleanor of Aquitane.

Davis would've played Eleanor of Aquitaine doing a Bette Davis impression.

No, she wouldn't have.

By 1968, Davis couldn’t have done Eleanor. At her peak, Davis probably would have equaled Hepburn in the role. With the right director, she might have surpassed her.

There are some Davis roles that Hepburn could never do (Baby Jane, first and foremost), but I do wonder about Margo Channing. It wouldn’t be the same without Davis, but it’s not like Hepburn couldn’t get a handle on a self-centered, imperious actress.

Bette made everything camp.

Her only successful serious roles was when she had William Wyler slapping all her campy ticks into submission.

[quote] A first rate singer, actress, director, producer, and interior decorator.

Hi, Babs! Didn't know you came here.

Please. Bette had a lot more successful serious roles than the Wyler films. Anthony Harvey could've reigned her in if she had played Eleanor.

"Davis roles that Hepburn could never do (Baby Jane, first and foremost"

R165, Baby Jane was a piece of camp shit. Hepburn would never stoop to doing garbage horror movies. In the same year, Hepburn delivered a sublime performance in O'Neill's Long Day's Journey, a great film adaptation. Big difference in quality.

Hepburn in '.Suddenly last Summer' was about to verge on camp.

But Bette revelled in camp right from the beginning. Now Voyager is early camp.

Baby Jane was camp, but not a piece of shit at all. It was a brilliant film. After Sunset Boulevard, it really showed casualties of Hollywood. The damn movie is still a part of pop culture 60 years later, a piece of shit never would've lasted that long.

Did Anthony Harvey reign in anyone on that movie, R168? The movie is great fun, but it’s because everyone in that movie is unleashed, Hepburn included (then in her sixties, she writhes on a bed simulating sex).

R169. I agree that Hepburn’s 1962 achievement easily surpasses Davis’s. Long Day’s Journey isn’t Hepburn’s best-remembered movie, but it might be her greatest performance.

OP No Mae West?

[R159]You’re a moron.Have a great moronic life.

R170, "Now, Voyager" is perfection.

Baby Jane and All about Eve are both camp.

And both films fizzle out in the second half. Davis demands our attention but all her flashy histrionics gets monotonous after 45 minutes.

Wyler knew how to keep her under control and get the cast to weave an interesting story to keep us interested.

I’ve been waiting for someone to argue for Mae West.She was huge but pretty one-note.But what a note it was!She single-handedly changed sexual attitudes in America.You can’t say that about many people period.

[quote]And both films fizzle out in the second half. Davis demands our attention but all her flashy histrionics gets monotonous after 45 minutes.

Well, you're probably the only one who feels this way.

[R176]I couldn’t disagree more about Davis in All About Eve.Her portrayal of Margo Channing grows in depth throughout the film.It is in my top 5 favourite performances of all time.She was born to play that part.Just magical.

What about Gloria Swanson?Surely she deserves to be up there.

Bette Davis as Margo Channing is widely regarded as one of the top performances by an actress in film history. Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond is also in this category. And Sunset Boulevard is also camp, but it's one of the greatest films ever made.

Mae West was so far ahead of her time, and her stuff is still funny today.

Jimmy Carter once told Bette Davis that "Now, Voyager" was the only movie he ever paid to see twice in his life.

R181, the genius of Sunset Blvd, is that it transcends its campy elements in the way that something like Baby Jane never does. The scene where Norma returns to Paramount gives her a humanity that a lesser movie never would think of doing,

R152, the closest to any verification I can find for that story is that Ellen Burstyn heard about it from people who saw Marilyn do the scene.

So the most famous celebrity in the world — one who was always underestimated for her acting — gave a performance so great that its reception was unprecedented in the history of the Actors Studio, and yet the best evidence is that one famous actress later heard rumors about it?

It never happened.

So consequently what are the best or our favourite performances by a film actress?Hard to pick definitively but are some of mine:

Bette Davis,All About Eve Liza Minnelli,Cabaret Jane Fonda,Klute Vivian Leigh,A Streetcar Named Desire Michelle Pfeiffer,The Fabulous Baker Boys Gloria Swanson,Sunset Boulevard Cicely Tyson,,The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman Marilyn Monroe,Some Like It Hot Greta Garbo,Camille Diane Keaton,Annie Hall Meryl Streep,Sophie’s Choice Jessica Lange,Frances Diana Ross,Lady Sings The Blues Barbra Streisand,Funny Girl Jodie Foster,The Silence Of The Lambs Jodie Foster,Taxi Driver Glenn Close,Fatal Attraction Kim Basinger,L.A. Confidential Anjelica Houston,The Grifters Ronee Blakley,Nashville

[quote]The scene where Norma returns to Paramount gives her a humanity that a lesser movie never would think of doing,

In Baby Jane there's the scene where Jane looks in the mirror and finally sees reality. Davis was heartbreaking in that scene. She took what could've been a caricature and gave the character real pathos.

[R185]What?Are you denying that she gave the performance or that is was well received?That performance has been verified by multiple sources,including Maureen Stapleton,who actually performed the scene with her,as pointed out.Kim Stanley is quoted in Anthony Summers extremely detailed and well researched Marilyn bio as talking about the applause happening after the performance.Norman Mailer talks about it extensively in his autobiography of her,as have several others.I personally worked with an actor,James Noble,who was there on the night and told me he thought she was wonderful.

And what proof do you have that it was apocryphal?A hunch?Are you one of these unfortunate souls that think your opinions are equal to my well researched facts?You are legion these days.It must be wonderful to be such a benevolent teller of all truths.Please share your secrets with the rest of us!

The question asks who is the “biggest” not the most talented. Monroe was bigger in life and is bigger in death. She had IT!

In her late interviews with Carson and Cavett, Davis always spoke of "Miss Hepburn" with the highest regard and respect.

R190, And when Cavett asked Hepburn if she liked Bette Davis, Kate quickly uttered an almost dismissive "Yes, I think she's awfully good".

On a 1978 Merv Griffin Show, Bette offered that Hal Wallis had a script for her and Hepburn to make together, which obviously never happened.

R190, They each made bad choices in their later years, Kate's "Rooster Cogburn" and Bette's "Bunny O'Hare".

Peter Bogdonavich said one time that Marilyn Monroe was the biggest female star of all time. She had that hype and mystique that has never been matched. He said that Barbra Streisand was rising to Marilyn's level of stardom at the time he directed her in WUD, but he thought that she had made some poor movie choices since then and had lost some of her luster.

No one has lost more luster than Peter Bogdanovich.

I'll never forget your attempt to humiliate me, OP, you fucking cunt!!

R136 Of her two classics? Yeah, cause Seven Year Itch totally isn't a classic

No, R196, it really isn’t. Put it this way: in any discussion of Billy Wilder movies, how many would be discussed before The Seven Year Itch rated a mention?

Sunset Blvd. is a classic. The Apartment is a classic. The Seven Year Itch has one memorable moment, but the fact that the film hasn’t been totally forgotten doesn’t mean it’s a classic.

R197 Yeah, well... that's like your opinion, man. I personally find it to be both a classic a cult film

The lost mad soul who refuses to put a space after the comma and period has ruined this thread. I would like him to pull a Marilyn and kill himself.

R175 'Now, Voyager' is perfectly camp.

Is 'Now, Voyager' linked to this story?

Are they both referring to The Bible.

Marilyn Monroe has easily taken first place in the poll, because as more see this thread, it's obvious to them that, in terms of being the biggest female movie star of all time, she's it. A brand that rakes in millions. Eight years ago, her estate raked in $26 million in one year. That hasn't changed.

And by the way, it isn't about how many of her movies are classics, either. It's about her.

You pathetic capitalist moviegoers have no idea.

According to Quigley, the number female star of the 1940s was Betty Grable. I adore her, but she has been completely forgotten and disregarded today. None of her films are today considered "classic musicals".

She quit films completely in 1955 and spent the rest of her career doing TV variety shows , Vegas and "Hello, Dolly" and died of lung cancer in 1973 She was only 56.

R205, That iconic shot from behind pin-up photo did a lot for her popularity in the 1940s.

Yes Grable is an example of the fickle nature of fame.She was such a household name in her day.But she is certainly remembered by film buffs and pinup aficionados, if not the general population.

In the matter of monroe vs taylor, 2 thoughts:

1) marilyn wins in that compare where she came from to taylor's privileged childhood, upbringing life!

2) people always, well, some of them, say taylor was the better actress than monroe? i take offense to that, because my thinking is, could taylor have played ANY roles that marilyn did? singing and dancing and comedy? NO!.. the only role that taylor could have done of monroe's was "the misfits".. and I dare say that i personally COULD see Marilyn doing liz's roles, in serious melodramas...

OP Only 10 choices were allowed but you felt Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe were better than Joan Crawford and Bette Davis?