Lee Daniels talk about losing rights to direct 'Brokeback Mountain'

Ehhhh. I think I t worked out. The film is pretty perfect, in my eyes.

I would love to have seen a Lee Daniels version of Brokeback, although I think that it might have been too melodramatic.

I wonder whom he would have cast.

Oprah can't buy you everything.

boo fuckin' hoo.

[quote]The film is pretty perfect,

It's a straight man's portrayal of homosexuality. Given that it was written by a woman, the movie really needed that gay input. The two leads lacked that smoldering passion and you can tell they were uncomfortable with the sex scenes which were mediocre to begin with. Also, too much input on their home lives, and really, who gave a shit about that?

It would be interesting to get a gay mans take on the movie, with gay men playing the cowboys. Matt Bomer and Ricky Martin would be great choices..

Ledger and Gyllenhaal both wanted to work with Ang Lee, and that's why they did the movie. It would have been a whole different movie (with Jamie Foxx and Will Smith?).

Is there anything to verify that he held the rights? I don’t remember that at all. Van Sant was the first director who publicly had interest in an adaptation and then Lee tried to make it as an indie production (Focus eventually came on board) Daniels seems full of it on this one.

I liked Precious a lot, but I think, based on his other work, Daniels would have brought too heavy a hand to BBM, though casing Oprah and Mo’nique as Ennis and Jack would have been interesting, to say the least.

[quote]I wonder whom he would have cast.

Whoever he was hot for at the time?

Well Jake Gyllenhaal isn't exactly Paul Newman. Let's be real.

I can’t imagine the outcome. His work is not exactly about nuanced emotion. I think Ang Lee did a better job than he ever could have done

Thank God that the untalented hack Lee Daniels never got his hands on this.

I like Lee Daniels in general, he does what he does well, but he would have been SO WRONG for this -- Annie Proulx' story is SO sparse and Ang Lee captured that feeling to a tee. That said Daniels' tent scene would've had hotter fucking

[quote] It would be interesting to get a gay mans take on the movie, with gay men playing the cowboys. Matt Bomer and Ricky Martin would be great choices..

No way! Both are too fem, to play rough and tumble cowboys on the range.

Ledger was actually perfect casting. I would have replaced Jakey, though. Not sure with who, but definitely someone else.

Lee Daniels would have gone for two pretty boys.

Back then, I noticed that those who saw the movie bringing expectations for romance or steaminess were very critical or disappointed. Gays were not as visible or accepted, and a lot of people wanted a big Hollywood love story. Months or years later, many of them were surprised to realize it was a great movie that just wasn’t the movie they had wanted to see. In my view, the movie is just about perfect.

Well, M. Daniels, I weep for you.

But you can't direct worth a possum shit.

[quote] Well, M. Daniels, I weep for you. But you can't direct worth a possum shit.

Ever heard of a little show called "Empire," you bitch??

Nasty ass.

I saw the movie in the theater and I was devastated by Heath Ledger’s performance. I don’t know when I’ll be able to see it again.

The sensibilities that Ang Lee brought to BBM were perfect because he showed gay love as sharing same qualities as straight love. Filmgoers got to see that attraction and yearning are universal qualities. This was a love story, not simply a gay love story and that’s the brilliance of BBM as directed by Ang Lee. Daniels’ directing efforts lack nuance. Ang Lee’s ability to let quiet moments express more than what words could ever do, this is something that Daniels misses or than hits.

[quote]Is there anything to verify that he held the rights? I don’t remember that at all. Van Sant was the first director who publicly had interest in an adaptation

I'd really like to know this too, because I think Daniels is full of shit here. Van Sant was attached from very early on, and in interviews he's always discussed it as going from him to Ang Lee (and seemed bitter about it, BTW). No one has ever mentioned Lee Daniels in conjunction with this film. Not Ang Lee, or the actors, or the screenwriters, or anyone. And Larry McMurtry has talked repeatedly about Heath Ledger's performance in Monsters Ball being the reason why they cast him as Ennis, so you'd think that if Daniels was ever involved, it would have come up.

[quote]I would have replaced Jakey, though. Not sure with who, but definitely someone else.

I don't know if I'd've gone to see it without Jake. I hated—HATED!—the story. I went to see Jake play gay.

[quote] Ang Lee’s ability to let quiet moments express more than what words could ever do, this is something that Daniels misses or than hits.

It's definitely a Chinese versus African American cultural difference.

I'd actually love to see both versions. It couldn't hurt.

Time for a Lee Daniels re-make of BBM!

Would Big Mama Oprah fund the project?

Please, Mommy? Please!!!

I didn't think it was such a great movie. The sex scene threw me at the beginning. It didn't feel authentic. And it was missing smoldering sensuality. Plus, it could've used more oral. And Ann Hathaway's tits were TOTALLY unnecessary!!! Ick.

I'd rather see Tyler Perry's version. And I want Tyler in a wig and dress playing Jake's role!!!

[quote] And Ann Hathaway's tits were TOTALLY unnecessary!!!

Totally.

It was gratuitous, so that straight men wouldn't feel completely grossed out by the gay sex in the movie.

The only problem? Straight men weren't going to see the movie any way. So the tits scene wasn't necessary.

[quote]And Ann Hathaway's tits were TOTALLY unnecessary!!!

Are you new here?

[quote] I'd rather see Tyler Perry's version

Madea's cowboy Christmas!

If Lee had directed it, it would've been released under the title, "Brokeback Mountain - based on the short story "Brokeback Mountain" by Annie Proulx"

"Brokeblack Mountain" (2021)- Jaden Smith and Lil Nas X star as two runaways who get a gig running drugs for Big Bertha (Oprah Winfrey) "The Fentanyl Queen". Amidst their travails in the mean streets of Minneapolis, forbidden love blooms. Also starring Gabourey Sidibe as a Caring Social Worker and Beyonce' Carter as a Caring Policewoman.

Let's greenlight it, R31!

R23 Ang Lee isn’t Chinese he’s Taiwanese, a big difference culturally speaking. Taiwan is the only Asian country to legalize gay marriage.

The scene where Ennis goes go Jack's parents house and retrieves the shirt... it's a masterpiece of minimalism. I don't think anyone but Ang Lee could have done that scene justice. It was so powerful.

Thank God!

Thanks r21. This just seems like Daniels trying to rewrite history to make himself part of BBM’s legacy.

R6 - their home lives kinda WERE a big part of the story. It was their home lives and the environment in which they lived and were raised that kept their story from being some Treasure Island fantasy. In other words, it was about real life.

[quote]I'd really like to know this too, because I think Daniels is full of shit here. Van Sant was attached from very early on, and in interviews he's always discussed it as going from him to Ang Lee (and seemed bitter about it, BTW).

Daniels didn't say he was attached, he said he OWNED the rights, two completely different things. He let the rights lapse and who ever got them went with Lee.

'The Butler' could have been an interesting study of Presidents' lives in recent history. But in Lee Daniels' hands it was a big soupy mess. There wasn't a bit of nuance within 60 feet of this movie. He would have made a travesty of BBM. Ang Lee did a beautiful job.

Thank GOD Ang Lee was the director. He did an amazingly exceptional job. The movie is perfect in every scene and details. I was surprised to learn that Ang Lee is a straight man

r8, it sounds like he optioned the script which Larry McMurtry co wrote from Annie Prouix's story. Optioning means pay a portion to the writer to have exclusive rights to make the film - which would include you buying the script. You have to pay these people a lot of money. They aren't nobodies. Options usually give you rights to renew by paying additional money. If you can't get it made in said time the rights revert back to the writers and they can sell it to someone else.

Ang Lee is brilliant. I don’t know Lee Daniels’s work.

The scene where Jack and Ennis kiss in the stairwell has all the passion and intensity one could ask for, r6...

I don't know him

...still laughing at the queen who suggested Bomer and Ricky Martin.

But wouldn’t the trades have reported on that r41? This wasn’t just some random screenplay either, it had McMurtry at the helm.

R39 I was disappointed by that movie.

And she was serious about it, R45!

Leave it to DL to trash and question the gay guy in favor of the straight director.

Matt Bomer! as a cowboy?? ded. perhaps at someone's bachelorette party, yes, hmm... I can see that

Ang Lee may be genderfluid or bisexual, or a queer folx--we can't know.

--instrumental for society in many devious ways to have a minority demographic that one can identify into without repercussions

I'm glad Mr. Daniels mentions the sex scene in the tent. I've always had a problem with it, because it never felt genuine. I'm sorry... it's a great example of how straight people imagine gay sex: pull down your pants and go for it, which is generally not the case. There should've been more, way more, tentative, sensual foreplay. And then, I'm sorry, it's just not that easy to have anal sex for the first time, not without much more effort and pain. That threw me off and cast skepticism on the rest of the movie. I've come to appreciate it, somewhat. Still not as good as it should've been, but not bad (for a straight guy).

[quote] I'm sorry... it's a great example of how straight people imagine gay sex: pull down your pants and go for it, which is generally not the case. There should've been more, way more, tentative, sensual foreplay.

“Sensual foreplay”? With those two particular characters in that particular moment? Sorry, I don’t see it. It sounds like some viewers are projecting their own fantasies onto the scene, much like they did for the first time scene in Call Me By Your Name.

well but--straights presumably know what straight sex is like, but they make it look like something else entirely in the movies I mean straight sex in the movies is also the way straights imagine it to be, not the way it really is

His BROKEBACK would have sucked.

He’s just not a great director.

[quote] he said he OWNED the rights, two completely different things. He let the rights lapse

[quote] he optioned the script which Larry McMurtry co wrote from Annie Prouix's story. Optioning means pay a portion to the writer to have exclusive rights to make the film - which would include you buying the script. You have to pay these people a lot of money

Correct. And he said that he lost the option because it was too expensive to keep paying, without the movie being made.

It almost sounds like the Hollywood studios were waiting until he gave up the option, so that they could go with a different director.

Assholes.

[quote]Daniels didn't say he was attached, he said he OWNED the rights, two completely different things. He let the rights lapse and who ever got them went with Lee.

Yes, owned the rights with the intention to direct (he calls himself the 'original director' of BBM in the article). But his account of his involvement seems to omit that of Gus Van Sant, whom McMurtry and Ossana have said was the first director involved once they completed the screenplay. It did not happen that the script jumped straight from Daniels to Ang Lee, Van Sant was involved for quite some time before that. And I just find it curious that Daniels' connection has never been mentioned by anyone associated with BBM. The genesis of the movie has been obsessively chronicled over the years, especially at the ten-year-anniversary mark, and no Daniels.

[quote] Given that it was written by a woman, the movie really needed that gay input.

Except that the sex in the short story was more raw and real than anything in the film.

[quote]It sounds like some viewers are projecting their own fantasies onto the scene, much like they did for the first time scene in Call Me By Your Name.

People bitch about the scene in Call Me By Your Name because it was more explicit in the book, and the movie was afraid of it. It was a classic panning to the window shit that gays have endured for decades.

Here’s an interview with Proulx in March of 1999. She states flat out that McMurtry and Ossana held the rights.

“The film rights of the short story “Brokeback Mountain,” the closing story in the new collection Close Range, were optioned by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana, who wrote an exceptionally fine screenplay. What happens next with it remains to be seen.”

Brokeback Mountain was published in 1998. Daniels is not telling the truth.

This is sort of a dour humblebrag, it’s like a Yelp review where a Karen cuts up a restaurant for three paragraphs but then says they served Up “a nice bread basket”. Sour grapes.

[quote]And I just find it curious that Daniels' connection has never been mentioned by anyone associated with BBM.

You find it curious? I find it business as usual in Hollywood.

[quote]I find it business as usual in Hollywood.

Yeah people in Hollywood often life to puff up their resumes.

Whatever happened to the Richard Pryor movie he was supposed to do with Mike Epps?

His movie would probably pompously be called "Lee Daniels' Brokeback Mountain"...And it would suck big time.

Lee, gurl, I know exactly how you feel. I had the option for "The Normal Heart" and I just could NOT get it made. I even cut down the number of solos I sang in the film and those evil producers would still NOT touch it. Being an artist is the worst profession because regular people just don't understand our vision.

Lee Daniels is too melodramatic, not a talented story teller and too obsessed with white boys. He has such a complex. No!

I think that Jake Gyllenhaal was so-so in BROKEBACK. It was totally Heath’s movie all the fucking way. You could smell his repression, his fighting against his desires for Jack.

[quote]I'm sorry... it's a great example of how straight people imagine gay sex: pull down your pants and go for it, which is generally not the case. There should've been more, way more, tentative, sensual foreplay.

The movie wasn't based in reality, it was a glossed over romance. In reality, they were sweating in the sun all day and working with animals. They would have stunk something fierce. AND their hygiene habits would have been questionable. Did Jake carry a douche in his back pocket just for the moment when some cowboy stud would have thrown him on his back and raised his legs?

The best thing about "The Butler" was the hotness of Lenny Kravitz.

The problem with "The Butler" was that it had already been done as "Backstairs At The White House".

"Backstairs At The White House" was like a historical "Love Boat". It had a cast of thousands and every one a star.

With Daniels it would have been much more yippee-yi-o-K-Y!...

The sex scene in the tent was had by two essentially straight characters with little to no homosexual experience.

The reaction the above posters, as gay audience viewers, had seeing Hathaway’s breasts was what Jake’s repressed character also most likely felt as he affected his lifelong charade.

Everything you’re complaining about wasn’t put there by Ang Lee for a straight or gay audience but for an audience that understands more about life than the two characters they’re watching do.

Lee Daniels in his telling of his part of this process, and especially his telling of how and why he avoided watching the movie blah blah blah is exactly why we should grateful we were spared his telling of those repressed gay cowboys.

[quote]It almost sounds like the Hollywood studios were waiting until he gave up the option, so that they could go with a BETTER director.

FYFY

FTFY

Are you retarded, R71?

You're trying to be sarcastic, but you're failing miserably.

If you're trying to write out "Fixed it for you" using four letters - the way a 12 year old would do it - then it's FIFY.

Not FYFY or FTFY. Idiot.

As usual, the Klan Grannies are trying to tear down an out, proud and successful black man.

Quelle surprise.

Ugh, are we in the moment where every slight is going to be dragged out for pathos and examination?

I recently watched MOONLIGHT on Amazon Prime. I was exposed more. Other than a JO session with another boy, the film was rather chaste. After HOLDING THE MAN, I set my expectations too high, especially for an American film.

r75 It's not a moment, really. Rather, it's the continuation of this dragged out decade. Or the beginning of an even draggeder outer one.

[quote] “Sensual foreplay”? With those two particular characters in that particular moment? Sorry, I don’t see it. It sounds like some viewers are projecting their own fantasies onto the scene, much like they did for the first time scene in Call Me By Your Name.

There was something lacking in the spontaneity of the sexual encounter. Neither was "gay" yet somehow knew exactly what to do without hesitation. They both would have smelled bad and Jake would not have douched. It was sanitized and Hollywood. I recalled being like "yuck" when I first saw it. It was missing something genuine.

Lol, maybe we should have yellowed their teeth and knocked a few out while we are at it.

[quote] There was something lacking in the spontaneity of the sexual encounter. Neither was "gay" yet somehow knew exactly what to do without hesitation. They both would have smelled bad and Jake would not have douched.

You're kidding, right?

You're talking about COWBOYS. The same people who have been known to fuck sheep, cows AND each other.

It's not rocket science. You take your dick, and you stick it in the hole. Voila!

And by the way, it's probably dirty and smelly, fucking a farm animal. But they do it anyway.

Your post has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on Datalounge.

[quote]Jake would not have douched.

Nobody would have douched when it took place.

There's a reason why prissy queens don't become cowboys.

It's also the reason why actual gay cowboys are so damned hot.

*looking at Bonner Bolton*

Buck would have.

Lee Daniels should cast Bonner Bolton in his re-make of BBM.

Bonner would make a perfect Jack Twist, because he's a rough and tumble bottom.

Bonner has a nice, clean hole too!

r83 Buck was two, Mom.

[quote] As usual, the Klan Grannies are trying to tear down an out, proud and successful black man. Quelle surprise.

Lol. Little Miss Lee lied. McMurtry’s too old to call him out but don’t be surprised if Proulx does.

I agree that the sex scenes lacked passion or intimacy. It wasn't a prison scene where everyone knows where the man goes up in the man. These are two men that are slowly falling for each other. I think there would have been some jacking off together and some tentative cock sucking before it ever got to full on "spit on your rod and drive it deep."

Straights have been portraying gays in film for the last hundred or so years and it's ALWAYS the same we are either made to be a stereotype or sexless entities.

Exactly what "quality" or "nuance" did Ang Lee bring to the story? Lol It's the same take but this time with cowboys, and two dull ones at that. Overpraised, boring, forgetful film with an unimaginative director.

[quote]Exactly what "quality" or "nuance" did Ang Lee bring to the story?

I don't blame him. He could only work with the material. If anyone is to blame, it's author Annie Proux. It's not really a story for gay men.

What is the point of him saying this? He didn't make the movie, so what? It's almost like dumping on the director. "well, it I had made it....." That's like when Streisand said she was offered Hidden Figures.

[quote]It's not really a story for gay men.

It's a story for tire irons.

R91 Yeah, let’s attack the director who got the Oscar for the film, not a smooth move.

R80,Thank You.

R88, you just didn't get it.

Heath should have won the Oscar that year, no question. The film is one of the greats.

But it's okay to attack the gay man/director for talking about this?

Another Lee Daniels quote: "If I had directed Gone With The Wind, Mammy would have been the one saying "Frankly, I don't give a damn" and slamming the door on her exit."

R15, Neither Matt Bomer and Ricky Martin are "too fem". Where the hell did you get that from? Both are well groomed men but only one can actually act. And Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal weren't exactly beacons of virile masculinity in real life either but they managed to depict the characters as intended.

[wuote] But it's okay to attack the gay man/director for talking about this?

It’s not him talking about this, it’s him lying about holding the rights. If Daniels has just said, “I wish I’d had the rights, here’s how I would’ve done it.” that would’ve been different and opened up a discussion.

Instead he makes up a total fiction about owning the property and tries to imply that no one wanted to make it (true) because a gay black man held the eeins (false).

*reins

Whatever happened to Lee Daniels redoing "Terms of Endearment" where he was going to show that black men are downlow gay?

[quote] Your post has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on Datalounge.

R80, you have compared folklore about bestiality to sexual intimacy between two men. You should reconsider your definition of "idiotic."

[quote] [R15], Neither Matt Bomer and Ricky Martin are "too fem". Where the hell did you get that from? Both are well groomed men but only one can actually act.

Which one?

R102 So they are both just fem enough?

r85, that Bonner Bolton video is a classic and revealing study on the nature of human sexuality. Prior to seeing it, I never knew that straight guys presented hole to women.

[quote]it’s him lying about holding the rights

How do you know he's lying? Show the proof.

I want to see gay cowboys like this.

[quote] How do you know he's lying? Show the proof.

I did. Way back at r58. An interview with Proulx back in 1999.

But just in case here’s an additional interview with Diana Osanna in 2005 where she goes into greater detail about how she and McMurtry secured the rights shortly after the story was published in the New Yorker in 1997. By Spring 1999 they’d already written the screenplay. Where is Daniels in any of this?

Ricky Martin try to act fem recently on a episode of Rupaul's Drag Race, it was cringe inducing. I can see Matt Bomer playing a cowboy. The little cowboy routine he did in Magic Mike was sexy.

Aren't we discussing his claims, rather than his gayness?

Can't we separate the two?

[quote]You find it curious? I find it business as usual in Hollywood.

That people lie about their resumes all the time, sure. But the reason I find it curious is because it can so easily be refuted. As someone above pointed out, why wasn't Daniels' purchase of the rights ever reported in the trades at the time? A purchase of a McMurtry script would have been worthy of coverage, as would a property based on a work by Proulx. And others have offered proof via articles that indicate Daniels' recounting of things does not match up at all the film's production history as laid out by Proulx, McMurtry and Ossana, Gus Van Sant, James Schamus, etc. So if he's lying, why the hell would he lie about something that other people have the receipts for? Or if there's been some production-wide effort to edit him out of the history all these years, what was THAT about?

Like I said, curious.

Black Directors Matter!

[quote]Diana Osanna in 2005 where she goes into greater detail about how she and McMurtry secured the rights shortly after the story was published in the New Yorker in 1997

And they didn't make the movie, did they? So someone else got the rights after them.

There are clearly some missing pieces to the story. But I am going to chose to believe that Lee Daniels isn't lying.

[quote] And they didn't make the movie, did they? So someone else got the rights after them.

They did. Osanna and McMurtry won the adapted screenplay Oscar for their efforts. Osanna would’ve won Best Picture as she was a producer, along with James Schamus. The rights were always with Osanna.

Do you even know what you’re talking about?

[quote] But I am going to chose to believe that Lee Daniels isn't lying.

Why?

Maybe he's not lying. Maybe he thinks he lost the rights to direct BBM, in his mind.

"Given that it was written by a woman, the movie really needed that gay input. "

Oh, bullshit. Did you ever read the story, written by Annie Proulx, that it was based on? The movie was very faithful to it, and the story was beautifully written and entirely plausible. Are you saying women don't know nuthin' about gays, therefore no woman should write a script or story featuring a gay character? That's highly biased and very dumb.

"How do you know he's lying? Show the proof."

How do know he's NOT lying? Show the proof.

[quote] Why?

Because it is something so stupid to lie about. It's something that can be fact checked almost immediately. Maybe he had part ownership of the property. Maybe the article misquoted him in some way. And this would not be the first time that a gay person or a black person's name and/or involvement in a project was omitted from the reporting.

I'm sorry but, unlike a lot of you, my first instinct isn't to trash and not believe other gay men or black men - gay or otherwise.

Call Me By Your Name’s sex scene was lame how they cut to the window during the anal scene but it had Timmy groping Armie and Armie giving Timmy a blow job and let’s not forget the peach scene It was also written by the same guy who probably did the greatest gay film of all time the hardly discussed Maurice and theCMBMN’s director was gay.

Brokeback Mountain had Jake groping Heath and a rushed sex scene a lot of kissing without tongues I don’t know about you but if I’m deeply attracted or in love I use tongue. Still I think it’s a great love story ( but common in which one of them dies but it makes it sadder Heath dies in real life)and it is almost a perfect film. Remember this is the Lee’s second gay film.

I don’t understand the praise Moonlight gets and the main problem with me is the 3rd segment that ends with the two lovers touching face. One of the most false moments in film history.

Daniels was kind of a sleazy filmmaker

[quote] I'm sorry but, unlike a lot of you, my first instinct isn't to trash and not believe other gay men or black men - gay or otherwise.

As if black men or gay men, especially ones in Hollywood, are incapable of lying. Otherwise check my posts. I’ve said nothing about Daniels’ skills as a director. I don’t really care.

I’m a film buff who loves BBM and has read quite a bit about its development— that’s why this story set off the alarm bells for me, not the claim that it was supposed to be made by a black man or a gay man or a woman or whomever. If Ang Lee or Gus Van Sant stepped forward and said they were the one who was supposed to direct Precious and attempt to take away from Daniels’ work in developing and directing that movie would you say the same?

[quote]this story set off the alarm bells for me

Alarm bells? Really?!

[quote]this story set off the alarm bells for me

Alarm bells? Really?!

R78 Frau here. The hygiene issue really bothered me.

First off, anal would NEVER have been the first sex act done by the cowboys. It would have been oral all the way. Or dry humping. Two emotionally detached cowboys who are afraid of being gay? Anal wouldn't have even come into the equation on that first encounter. You have to be with a DL or closeted person to really understand this. That's "too gay" for most of them.

Second of all, if you're going to do an anal sex scene eventually, they would have lubed beforehand. I'm sure they had some butter, or a can of pork and beans he could have dipped his hands into and lathered the guys ass up with.

That's why you needed a gay man's input,. The movie was low on that hot smoldering passion between two young, butch ripe cowboys.

Lee, Bucatinsky, Casper Andreas, Greg Berlanti who directed the Broken Hearts Club could have been good choices.

The Michelle Williams character was too much of a dishrag as well. She needed more bitchy vindictiveness.

[quote] First off, anal would NEVER have been the first sex act done by the cowboys. It would have been oral all the way. Or dry humping. Two emotionally detached cowboys who are afraid of being gay?

First off, they were DRUNK. Drunk off their asses.

Second, It was a tension that was building between them, and the sex was supposed to be a release of that tension.

Third, Ennis himself would never admit to being gay. He wasn't afraid of being gay, because he didn't think of himself that way. "Jack, it's your fault I'm this way." In other words, sex with another man wouldn't even have crossed his mind - EVER - if Jack Twist hadn't entered his life.

This is not a movie about two gay men. It's a movie about one closeted gay man, and his falling in love with a straight man. And yes, straight men can develop feelings of love for another man. But it doesn't always translate into sex. It can just be an emotional connection, or a bond, or whatever. Hence the term, "bromance." It doesn't mean these guys are sleeping together.

However, in one heated moment, a straight man has a wild, drunken encounter with a gay man, and it opens up an entirely new world to him. Ennis was confused about it for the rest of his life. He lived a straight life before Jack Twist, and he lived a straight life after Jack Twist.

But this one specific person, opened up a door for Ennis, that he could not close. He not only had a sexual attraction to Jack, but he also had an emotional connection to Jack. That doesn't make him gay. It makes him human.

[quote] The Michelle Williams character was too much of a dishrag as well. She needed more bitchy vindictiveness.

Ugh. Again, you're projecting your own gay self into the movie.

It was set in the 1960's. In Wyoming, for fuck's sake.

She was a country housewife, not a Real Housewife of Atlanta.

Jeez.

God's Own Country is a superior film. It had the passion that Brokeback Mountain lacked and even though the actors were also straight they delivered a true, believable performance. No unnecessary tits popping up here and there no pandering to a straight audience just Francis Lee in all his glory.

[quote] This is not a movie about two gay men.

What?!

[quote] It was also written by the same guy who probably did the greatest gay film of all time the hardly discussed Maurice

Honey, the greatest gay film of all time is "Pee Wee's Big Adventure".

R7, Jamie Fox and Will Smith?! 🤣 I love Brokeback Mountain. Slow burner, but so raw and real. Everything worked out well for everybody.

And it still would have lost best picture to Crash.

Daniels would have made it his masterpiece.

Daniels would put Precious and Viola Davis up there..... And Viola would hog the microphone asking why ppl don't like angry , sad, black ppl that shame everyone into accepting their lifestyles? Everyone wants to be 50 years old!

First of all, the scene in the tent was of a "STRAIGHT" man, Ennis who suddenly decided to fuck Jack, because Jack tried to grope him...."in his sleep." So if you think about the context, the scene worked very well. It was an explosion. No conversation, no exploring, just a really hot fuck. In a way it was like a rape as far as Ennis was concerned. You could see the shame and embarrassment and the muddle he was in the next day.

And there were other scenes that showed their awkwardness and how difficult it was to talk about their feelings. And there was fear too with the recognition of the fact that these were two men who loved one another. Now the scene that just ripped my heart out because it was so powerful was that final scene when Ennis drives up to that mean little ranch where Jack's parents lived. That house reminded me of a tomb. A dead place.

And when he went up those stairs, and looked out the bedroom window. All I could think of was what a contrast it was from the personality and the lively spirit of Jack. What it must have taken for him to rise above that horrible environment and become the man he was. I saw the movie several times back then. But Since Heath died, I've never been able to watch it again. No one could have done what Ang Lee did. And Lee Daniels least of all.

Their awkwardness was quite a bit subsided later in the movie, after their reunion, when they were lying in bed together talking about how to handle their attraction to each other

[quote]God's Own Country is a superior film. It had the passion that Brokeback Mountain lacked and even though the actors were also straight they delivered a true, believable performance. No unnecessary tits popping up here and there no pandering to a straight audience just Francis Lee in all his glory.

Matt, is that you?

God's Own Country is a wonderful film, but it wouldn't even exist without Brokeback - FFS, it lifts at least one scene wholesale. And it paid a price for its lack of 'pandering': it made only a smidgen of what Brokeback made, and even as recently as last month, its distributor was editing out the sex scenes for streaming. You can have an 'uncompromised' little movie that no one sees, or you can have a blockbuster that's a mainstream classic. But you're probably not going to get both for a long time.

[quote] The scene where Jack and Ennis kiss in the stairwell has all the passion and intensity one could ask for

The uncomfortable face-smash fake kiss? Yes, so much passion and so intense.

[quote] First of all, the scene in the tent was of a "STRAIGHT" man, Ennis who suddenly decided to fuck Jack,

Oh hun, you are living in a fantasy world. STRAIGHT men never decide to fuck another guy just because they are groped by said guy, otherwise soccer players would be banging each other all day long.

R135, MARY!

R139, Ennis thought he was straight. He'd been living and acting straight, and he had the fear of God put in him about "queers" by his daddy who took him to see a couple of dead queers. Murdered by guys like Daddy.

[quote] Ennis thought he was straight.

And Trump thinks he's amusing and clever. No - Ennis is a homosexual

OF course he was.

God’s Own Country is very good film but I prefer Beach Rats and GOC not even close to being the great film Brokeback Mountain is in God’s I didn’t like the way they used words like ‘faggot’ to express themselves even in a kidding way.

Gosh, the PR people of GOC are out in full force. No, your film is not comparable in any way to BM. It will never be part of cinematic history. There, I said it

R120 here some other points i forgot I liked Daniels as a sleazy director. He gave us full frontal of very handsome Stephen Dorrff, in Precious a mother demands oral from her own daughter, I haven’t seen Paperboy but I think Nicole Kidman spreads legs, Zac Efron not nude but spends a lot of time in tights whities and I believe he did something kinky to McBongo.

Then he makes one of the worst Oscar bait movies of all time and calls it Lee Daniels presents The Butler which was done so much better as Backstairs at the Whitehouse( the great Olive Cole from Roots got another great role). I wish I could watch it again. Not just for the Oscar begging I like Oprah but I don’t want to see her as two timing hoochie mama in love/sex scenes.

Nor will God's Own Country be part of the "Gay Films in Which One of the Leads Gets Murdered for Being Gay" canon, r145.

There, I said it.

True but Brokeback Mountain in the category of a general love story which the other one dies like Live Story and the many others. I give it a pass.

I'm sorry. Anyone who lists "Lee Daniels Presents" has to have a huge ego. It's not like he's Hitchcock.

Jenny Cavalieri wasn't murdered while changing a tire, dumbass r148. Some of you people!!!

"The uncomfortable face-smash fake kiss? Yes, so much passion and so intense."

They were a couple of redneck guys. Repressed gays who had a hot affair, been apart for a long time, and were now able to see and touch each other again. I thought that kiss showed just how much they wanted each other and they wanted each other a LOT. What exactly was NOT passionate and intense about it? It didn't look "fake" to me.

[quote] Anyone who lists "Lee Daniels Presents" has to have a huge ego.

Or how about "Tyler Perry's (fill in the blank)."

What is it about these AA directors and producers, that makes they so insecure as to INSIST on having their name in front of all of their projects?

I named a whole network after myself!

R152, because they deserve it

R150 i meant one member of a couple in love dies I didn’t say anything about the cause of death. It wasn’t Illogical for a gay man to die that way in the past. When Jack’s wife is telling He has died she is lying Ennis is imagining what happened and it was his worst fear. We dont really know how he died. At least that’s how I interpreted it.

[quote]This is not a movie about two gay men. It's a movie about one closeted gay man, and his falling in love with a straight man

If they had anal and came back for more, they were both gay. That's some hetero-splaining BS saying one was straight. Gyllenhaal even tried it when they were promoting the movie claiming that his character was really bisexual. Please. They were queens and the movie would have been better had it showed their sexual experience ripening and deepening as they grew closer to each other, instead of the obligatory standoffishness. The movie just parroted straight ideas of what being gay is like and of course the fraus ate that shit up because they pitied the two lead characters.

To each their own. But I thought All Over the Guy was much better in dealing with a similar theme.

And Interesting that someone brought up Viola Davis. She would have nailed the Michelle Williams part. Viola can do frustrated like no one else can, and she would have made the character interesting. We also would have gotten a juicy monologue.

Yeah, one of the the two men in BB was "straight", huh? Was it Jack? He couldn't get enough sex out of Ennis so he went to Mexico to get some. Doesn't seem like he was too "straight." And Ennis? He preferred to butt fuck his wife as a poor substitute for Jack's ass. Unlike Jack, he was a one man man; only Jack would do for him. Yeah, these two sound SO "straight."

R137, Annie, are you OK? Are you OK Annie?... because you seem to be giving Brokeback Mountain way too much credit than it actually deserves, there were plenty of better gay films before you even writ that drivel into existence.

Popularity and prosperity don't mean much when you consider the heaps of mass produced, mind-numbing dog shit Hollywood serves up for public consumption...and with success.

[quote] That's some hetero-splaining BS saying one was straight. Gyllenhaal even tried it when they were promoting the movie claiming that his character was really bisexual. Please. They were queens and the movie would have been better had it showed their sexual experience ripening and deepening as they grew closer to each other, instead of the obligatory standoffishness

Are you insane?

Jack did in fact have sex with his wife - more than once - which makes him bisexual. Whether you like it, or not.

Same for Ennis, except that he didn't even acknowledge his bisexuality. To him, it was a one person "fling," which in his mind, didn't make him gay or even bi. It's a rationale that lots of closeted straight guys use. Not saying it's right. It just is what's going on in their mind.

And the bottom line is that you didn't write the book, so you don't get to say what is and is not. Next time, write your own fucking book, and then you can make the rules.

Until then, STFU!

[quote]The Michelle Williams character was too much of a dishrag as well. She needed more bitchy vindictiveness.

I always thought it would have been better if the screenwriters had her character keep away the daughters from Ennis out of bitter revenge.

BBM is an all time classic and I’m so glad that Ang Lee directed the film. It’s so real and almost perfectly flawless. I wouldn’t change a thing from the movie.

1. BBM 2. CMBYN

BBM is far from a perfect film, but my biggest quibble is Jake G. I think he was miscast.

Jake is always good. The only time I didn’t like his performance was in that animal rights movie he did for Netflix.

Viola is great actress but I don’t even think she could pull off playing a young woman in Wyoming 15 years ago.

R159 dear, before you go on and on telling people to shut up you should know that Brokeback Mountain is based on a short story not a book.

Pedro Almodovar has also said he was offered the chance to direct it at some point, but eventually turned it down because he said he would not have been able to make it the way he wanted. He was very complimentary about Ang Lee's version, he just said he viewed the story differently and would have wanted the sexual relationship to be more passionate in the film than it was. There are a few interview from recent years where he discusses this. I hadn't heard about Lee Daniels owning the rights at some stage, but given that it was offered to at least one other director in the years between Van Sant's initial attachment and Ang Lee eventually making it, it might well have been the case that he did at one time, and it was just never publicised, the same way that Almodovar's potential involvement was not publicised until he mentioned it himself later on.

Here are a couple of quotes from Almodovar on the subject:

From a Financial Times interview in 2015:

“They offered me Brokeback Mountain but I had many doubts. Thinking about it, I don’t know if I made a mistake or not [in turning it down]. They promised me total artistic freedom and final cut but it was a story that was so physical — it’s not just that the characters sleep together once — and that has to be there. I think Ang Lee went as far as he could and I like his version very much. But I always imagined it differently and I don’t think I would have been able to make it the way I wanted. They wouldn’t have let me.”

From a Vulture interview in 2019:

Are there any American films you wish you could have made?

The only one that I was tempted to actually take was Brokeback Mountain, which the screenwriter Larry McMurtry offered to me to direct. I knew the story by E. Annie Proulx, and I was fascinated by the project. I hesitated during the two or three months that they were waiting for me. In the end, I think it was much better that Ang Lee made that movie. I love the movie and I think both actors are wonderful. But my vision of that short tale was much more physical than it was in the movie. That’s what it’s about in the story — there’s something very animalistic about their love, they’re searching for warmth in each other, and it has that twist to it. I was sure that I couldn’t do it as physical as I wanted to. Perhaps I will one day make a movie in English, but it will be with European money, then I can be as free as I am now.

I enjoyed BBM, but I definitely would've loved to see Almodovar's version of the film!

Did any of these people, or posters here, read the short story? Lee’s movie was totally faithful to the original story.

[quote] there’s something very animalistic about their love, they’re searching for warmth in each other, and it has that twist to it. I was sure that I couldn’t do it as physical as I wanted to.

HA! Told you bitches who were whining about wanting to see "tenderness" and a "build up to sex."

That dumb fantasy is in your stupid little heads.

Even gay director Pedro Almadovar felt that their first encounter was "animalistic," and he in fact, would have gone even further than Ang Lee did.

So please SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THAT!

There are gay men who have had sex with women. They do it for different reasons, but mostly to stay in the closet. Doesn't mean they're bi-sexual. In BBM, both Jack and Ennis have sex with women to appear heterosexual, but they don't LIKE it. They would have avoided it if they could. I think the definition of someone who is bi-sexual is someone who LIKES having sex with both males and females.

If he’d directed it, he would’ve hired Monique to play the Randy Quaid character for ten dollars—and then she’d have refused to promote it like she did with Precious. And then we’d be hearing from her and her charlatan husband forever in relation to the film. Nah...we good.

[quote] In BBM, both Jack and Ennis have sex with women to appear heterosexual, but they don't LIKE it. They would have avoided it if they could

How could you possibly even presume to know this? Did you write the short story? No you didn't.

Every indication from both the short story and the movie is that being gay was NEVER on Ennis' radar. And as pointed out upthread, even more so because his father drummed it into his head that being gay is bad, and it will get you killed in 1960's rural Wyoming.

Ennis was just going about his business, just as any other straight man in the world does. Went to work, did his job, blah blah blah. It was Jack Twist who came into the picture and introduced him to something that would otherwise have NEVER crossed his mind.

For you to ASSume otherwise, is just ignorant.

Both men got fired for being gay.

"For you to ASSume otherwise, is just ignorant."

Seems to me you're the one doing all of the ASSuming. You didn't write the short story, either, you ass. You think a man likes to have sex with another man (and in fact, is in love with him) is "straight!"What an ignorant dipshit you are!

[quote] I hadn't heard about Lee Daniels owning the rights at some stage, but given that it was offered to at least one other director in the years between Van Sant's initial attachment and Ang Lee eventually making it, it might well have been the case that he did at one time, and it was just never publicised, the same way that Almodovar's potential involvement was not publicised until he mentioned it himself later on.

R164 there’s a difference between owning the rights and directing. Even Almodovar makes this distinction by saying McMurtry offered him to direct, not that he was giving him the property.

Diana Ossana owned the rights from shortly after publication in the New Yorker straight through to the Oscars. Annie Proulx has said as much. Daniels is just coming up with some story to build his own brand and get an ego stroke during Pride.

[quote] Daniels is just coming up with some story to build his own brand and get an ego stroke during Pride.

Or in other words...

Thank God hack Lee Daniels didn't direct it.

I think the thing about Ang's characterizations was that there wasn't much of a narrative arc in terms of the characters themselves. The empty monotony of Jack & Ennis meeting up to go fishing, and ride horses a few times a year, just meandered on and on. Their relationships never growing. Jack stayed married to Lureen, and if Alma hadn't divorced him Ennis wouldn't have done anything. As if they were paralyzed. As if they really had no real life except their recreation of their idyllic summer on the mountain when they were young. I found it profoundly sad. The movie really is a tragedy. I can't watch it anymore. Haven't seen it in maybe 8 years. So depressing.

[quote]Thank God hack Lee Daniels didn't direct it.

Honey, "Brokeback Mountain" is relegated to 3:00 A.M. showings between Rupaul's Drag Race re-runs. Yes, thank God!

[quote]As if they really had no real life except their recreation of their idyllic summer on the mountain when they were young.

Except that Summer when Elizabeth Walton stumbled on them. Reverend Fordwick spent years counseling Elizabeth about what she saw!

Dear, r177 we are living in a age of streaming and TCM having movies on the late show isn’t negative anymore.

I’m glad Van Sant didn’t do it either he only makes good movies by accident and I’m sure he would be cowardly on the gay aspects.

The scene with Ennis roughly turning Michelle Williams around to fuck her from behind suggests he would rather be doing it with a guy.

It’s a very very difficult film to direct And produce due to characters’ personal development and cultural complexities in the 60s. It required a very sophisticated and intellectual director to bring the story to life. Ang Lee was the right choice, period. 👏

[quote] The empty monotony of Jack & Ennis meeting up to go fishing, and ride horses a few times a year, just meandered on and on. Their relationships never growing. Jack stayed married to Lureen, and if Alma hadn't divorced him Ennis wouldn't have done anything. As if they were paralyzed. As if they really had no real life except their recreation of their idyllic summer on the mountain when they were young. I found it profoundly sad.

R176 just reinforces the fact that urban gays are so completely out of touch with rural life.

Honey, that's what they fucking DO all day. Sit around, fish, talk about nothing, and just.... do that.

What you call "paralyzed," they call every day life.

Annie Proulx really nailed the characters in 1960's Wyoming. They had nothing else to do up on that mountain, except to fuck each other.

They tended to the sheep, played the harmonica, sat around the fire, and drank.

That was their life. Period.

It's so funny for years I thought Ang Lee was gay. I had also watched another of his films with a gay theme: The Wedding Banquet, so I assumed he was. Never bothered to look it up.

To this day I'm still surprised; what makes a straight man from Taiwan to be interested in this topic. Times have changed, but it was not so 2 or 3 decades ago for a mainstream audience.

Ang Lee could be bi, R183.

I don't think anyone has actually ever asked him the question, so no one really knows.

Ang Lee is 100% straight and married since 1983. He has two children. He’s a very deep n sophisticated person.

True movie lovers know Ang Lee first got noticed with Wedding Banquet. He has won 2 directing Oscars has one underrated or forgotten film Lust Caution three classics and many major failures Incredible Hulk, civil war drama with pop star Jewel being no Vivien Leigh ,that Will Smith film starring with younger cgi Smith that no one liked, also Billy’s Long Walk a movie that had many hot actors I still didn’t have a desire to watch...

I thought it was strange a couple of years after the film was made Heath and Jake said Lee wasn’t much help. Considering Heath should have won Oscar and this film has been so far the only film Jake has been nominated maybe they didn’t need help.

R176, that is the story--there was no way for them to be together in the lives they lived, at that time. The Jake character was also frustrated by it; for the Heath character, settling down with a man was not an option (and I assume really not an option in 1960s Wyoming; I guess it was possible for lesbians to settle into a "we're spinster roommates" life?)

One of the things I liked about the story and the movie was the, for me, realistic evocation of Western life. My family comes from there and I spent a lot of time as a kid around farmers and ranchers and rodeos and the setting/characters rang true.

Jack wanted more, but Jack would've cheated.

I thought that old reprobate, Van Sant was suppose to direct it.

[quote] Jack wanted more, but Jack would've cheated.

I don't believe that at all.

Jack was the one who kept pushing for a relationship with Ennis. He kept saying that he wanted them to buy a ranch together, and live there as a couple.

However, that was completely out of the question for Ennis. Remember that scene when Ennis got divorced and Jack drove all the way to Wyoming from Texas, with a big happy smile on his face, thinking that they could finally be together? And he ended up having to turn right around, because Ennis was like, "no way."

Beyond that, Ennis was actually seeing Jack less and less as they got older, and Jack was getting tired of it.

So it's easy to see why Jack was fooling around on Ennis. But I do think that if they had lived together, Jack would have been faithful.

The bond they had was unbreakable otherwise they wouldn’t have seen each other for so many years. Jack was a devoted lover and Ennis was a coward. You could see At the end that he deeply regrets what he had done to Jack but it was way too late.

Thank you R191. YOU make a good case. I'd forgotten that scene. Ennis was literally paralyzed with fear. And you know, in rural Wyoming, I really don't see why they couldn't have moved to a more hospitable place and got a ranch. It seems like there were a lot of cowboys roaming around and living on a ranch took a lot of work. Two guys who were "roommates " or business partners, could have gotten away with it. I'm sure it was done in real life by both Gay men and lesbians. One of them could have been presented as the "tenant" because he needed the extra income.

Jack wanted the whole thing, R192.

He wanted in the 1960's, what most gay men take for granted today. The ability to live together with your partner in a comfortable home, and just be able to have a relationship with each other, and love each other, just like everyone else.

I suppose a person could have had that in New York or Los Angeles, but certainly not in rural Wyoming. And even in NY and LA, life would have been difficult on a gay male couple living together.

In many ways, you could say that Jack was way ahead of his time.

They were just two cowboys who wanted to grow old together watching those two lesbians, Lucy & Viv, on The Lucy Show.

R193 I agree, but after repeated viewing of that movie, over time, I also got the impression Ennis was scared of Jack and scared for Jack. He said as much. I think Ennis who was cautious to a fault, felt like Jack's openness was going to get him or both of them, killed. And maybe he was right. I thought of that scene where Jack goes back to that office to see Aguirre looking for work...and looking for Ennis the next summer, and Aguirre's hostility was right out in the open but Jack seemed to not read it at first.

[quote] I think Ennis who was cautious to a fault, felt like Jack's openness was going to get him or both of them, killed. And maybe he was right. I thought of that scene where Jack goes back to that office to see Aguirre looking for work...and looking for Ennis the next summer, and Aguirre's hostility was right out in the open but Jack seemed to not read it at first.

Well Ennis was sort of to blame for that, too.

Remember, Aguirre made a surprise visit to camp to tell Jack about his sick uncle, and that's when he caught both of them wrestling and frolicking in the wide open. I suppose they thought that no one ever came up to Brokeback Mountain, so they could be free up there. However, an occasional ranch hand could possibly have stumbled upon them (remember when the sheep got mixed up?), so Ennis wasn't being THAT cautious.

And that's what ended up in them both never being hired again by Aguirre.

R196, sorry but I don't understand your post. So Ennis is guilty of what exactly?

I think of Jack as a modern day Midwestern gay, who moves to NY or LA to get away from the small-town mentality. Jack moved to Texas, where it was a little bit more urban and open. Maybe even more free-thinking than Wyoming. He thought he could blend in better, which was kind of funny because even his father-in-law seemed to know Jack's secret.

Jack always knew that he would be trapped if he lived in Wyoming, and in fact he probably never would have gone back there, if it wasn't for his parents, or Ennis.

I'm guessing that Jack was more open, when it came to his sexuality. Everybody seemed to know that Jack liked guys, starting with his own family. Both his mother and father seemed to know, which is why he ran away from them.

Then he went to work on Brokeback, and one of the very first scenes was Jack cruising Ennis through the mirror on his truck.

Then Aguirre found out about them because they were being intimate out in the open.

Jack's wife surely knew about him and his penchant for other men, as did his father-in-law.

Hell, even that guy in Texas picked up on Jack's being into guys. Remember that scene where Jack and his wife were at a dance in Texas, then he goes outside to sit on the bench, and the other married guy follows him outside, sits next to him, and asks Jack if he ever wants to go... "camping?"

Everybody knew about Jack.

Ennis was a very different story. He was quiet and brooding, and he had a tough guy exterior. Most people would never have guessed that Ennis would ever hook up with another guy.

Hell, even Alma would never have known, had she not seeing him making out with Jack at the bottom of their apartment stairs. (which also disputes R195's claim that Ennis was "cautious to a fault.")

Not even I would be full-on making out with another guy out in the open, like that.

Who would of thought David Harbour (other married guy) would be playing one of America's most beloved characters on TV one day?

You know, there's 4 guys who always seem to be around. Richard Jenkins, David Harbour, John Carroll Lynch and J.K. Simmons. It's like one of them is always in the background in a movie. Always.

I'm very curious how Pedro Almadovar would have directed Brokeback Mountain.

Of Ang Lee, Lee Daniels, and Pedro, I think that I would have most enjoyed Pedro's vision.

He has the finesse of Ang Lee with the gay sensibility of Lee Daniels, which would have been a nice combination of the two.

Ang's subtle touch really captured the desolation of rural Wyoming in the early 60's. I don't see how either Almoldivar or Daniels would have done that. With Ang it wasn't just the two guys, it was the setting and even the sense of emptiness when they were together for their vacations.

R202 completely agree 👍

[quote] Ang's subtle touch really captured the desolation of rural Wyoming in the early 60's. I don't see how either Almoldivar or Daniels would have done that

Watch Almadovar's "Bad Education" (La Mala Educacion).

You'll see how he could do it.

[quote]because even his father-in-law seemed to know Jack's secret.

I think it was on the defunct IMDB boards that a few people had the theory that the father-in-law had Jack killed and I later saw that pop up in BBM fanfics. I went through a period where I read BBM fics for laughs because most of them were quite bad. In some fics about Jack's death it was either the father-in-law, the married guy in the town, or Lureen who had him killed. I also remember a bad fic in which Jack left Lureen and moved away to live an out gay lifestyle. Years later, his son tracked him because Lureen had AIDS and they figured she had to have gotten from Jack. They were other fics of Jack having AIDS and in some fics Ennis took care of him until his death.

I read some too, and a few of them were pretty good. I Remember one where Jack was a young underaged prostitute and Ennis saved him from a short unhappy life. They used to do fan fictions of Jake and Heath too. I remember one in particular that was pretty hot.

I make my own. It's surprisingly easy and it tastes wonderful.

Is it a dessert topping?

I'm glad he didn't direct it. BBM has its faults, but it was deliberately tailored to not just be a film for one specific community. Hate on that as much as you want, the fact that it was made palatable for the mainstream crowd really helped it in terms of the message it was trying to get across. It was great for gay rights. It made straight people see gay men as men instead of women trapped in men's bodies, and it made them see us as human rather than boogeymen.

If Lee Daniels had directed it straight white people never would have given it a second glance. The movie would have tanked and as a result mainstream studios would probably not make another gay film for the next 50 years.

......

What I don't get, and maybe I watched too many cowboy movies with Grandpa as a kid, but OK, Wyoming was an empty lonely place. I get that. But the main thing is these were ranchers. Hard life, etc. and they depended on ranch hands to do the work. It was really male dominated. So what would have been so wrong about Ennis & Jack getting a place as "roommates" or "business partners" and living together? IMO it was their own guilty knowledge about society's hostility, that blocked Ennis from agreeing to hook up with Jack. because Ennis was divorced, and Jack was ready to walk out on his life with Lureen. I think they could have got away with it.

Richard Madden and Froy should’ve played the two gay boys in BBM.

R212 go away

Fanfic is the absolute worst stuff out there.

R198, Ennis' daughter probably had an idea her father was gay; she told the Linda Cardellini character that her dad "wasn't the marrying kind."

I thought Heath was perfect as Ennis. I wasn't as comfortaable with Jake's interpretation of Jack. It wasn't util the very end of the movie at Jack's parent's house that we and Ennis fully appreciated what Jack went through. That guy who played his father was a POS for real.