Debra Winger Turned Down Fatal Attraction To Do Movie About White Supremacy

Debra had a bad year that year. She turned down Fatal Attraction. Left Nuts so Streisand grabbed it and got pregnant and couldn't do Broadcast News which was written for her.

All those roles got awards attention for the actresses while Betrayed bombed.

R1 She would've been good in Nuts. Babs doesn't work in the role at all.

Sorry but Debra was miscast in Betrayal. She's playing an FBI agent sent to infiltrate white supremacists who are also anti semitic.

^ meant Betrayed.

Seeing Costa-Gavras descend from "Z" to directing schlocky Joe Eszterhas scripts like "Betrayed" and "Music Box" was so depressing. Winger could do nothing with her stupid role and dialog, but actors like Costa-Gavras, and she and Tom Berenger got along well, so she probably remembers the film fondly, even though it sucks.

I love the moment where they reveal the FBI pic of Debra and it is a glamorous actor headshot.

Betrayed was such a disappointment. The trailer was good and it seemed with the director and cast, it would deliver. But Debra's character was so stupid and the script was not very good.

There are strong points - Berenger was at his peak hotness and he and Winger had good chemistry. The scene where they chase the black man through the woods is harrowing; they would never allow that today.

The whole point of having someone infiltrate is that they don't make their deception obvious. It would have made more sense to use someone like Sissy Spacek.

Debra Winger??? Betrayed???

When I was in highschool, for some history class I took, we had to bring in a movie about racism to screen for the class. Everyone brought in the usual films, like Mississippi Burning, To Kill a Mockingbird, Do the Right Thing, etc. But I brought in this one, knowing that it was pure Joe Eszterhas schlock. As I'd suspected, nobody had heard of it, not even the teacher, but everyone seemed way more entertained by it than the 'classics' we'd already seen.

Wow, remember when Hollywood had actresses. Debra Winger, Sissy Spacek, now we have Brie Larson and Anna Kendrick.

I saw Betrayed and had high hopes after the trailer. They never should have cast Beringer as a white supremacist. He was was too handsome and any hatred you had was lessened by his looks. I did like the ending when they played Waylon Jennings The Devils Right Hand.

R5 So true. Costa-Gavras making great films in Europe like Z, Shock Troops, The Sleeping Car Murders, State of Siege, The Confession, Special Section and then went to America and made another great film Missing. After that it all turned to shit: Hanna K, Betrayed, Music Box and worst of all Mad City. He went back to France with his tail between his legs so to speak but never reached the peaks for all his films from Shock Troops to Missing inclusive.

R11 writes,

[quote] Wow, remember when Hollywood had actresses. Debra Winger, Sissy Spacek, [bold]now we have Brie Larson and Anna Kendrick[/bold].

Who?

I watched Urban Cowboy last week and damn, Winger really is a great actress. It's a shame she is such a mess to work with because she has charisma, screen presence and acting chops.

She was brilliant in the first half of the '80s - Urban Cowboy, An Officer and a Gentleman, Terms of Endearment and even Mike's Murder. Then she made both Legal Eagles and Betrayed which were both bombs.

Mike's Murder failed due to studio interference

Warner Brothers reportedly was unhappy about the project because of its premise with the drug-fixated underpinnings of the L.A. entertainment world and refused to release it until Bridges made some cuts and changes.

The film originally was edited so that the events played chronologically backwards and featured a score by singer Joe Jackson. Bridges' original edit was poorly received by test audiences, and Warner Bros. forced him to re-edit it so the story unfolded in a more conventional way. Jackson's score was replaced by a new John Barry score. However, a couple of Jackson's songs remain in the film.

Who was the actor who played Paul Winfield’s boy toy in MIKE’S MURDER?

Debra was too smart and too opinionated for Hollywood. I adored her but knew from her interviews that she was not happy with the movie biz. Great actress though.

I remember the trailer from the VHS of Poltergeist III I used to watch all the time as a kid. It really stuck out and was affective.

I eventually saw the movie and really liked it. It only gets exploitative when they hunt the black guy in the woods. Otherwise, it’s a pretty good movie. I’m surprised it hasn’t had a reappraisal or that it did so poorly upon its release.

I’ve never seen Mike’s Murder. I’m a big fan of Winger and the director and I always meant to. I see it’s for sale on Vudu for ten bucks. Is it worth a blind buy?

R19 Winger's performance was so strong, she did receive Oscar talk that year, despite the flaws in the editing of the movie

Excellent timing, OP. I've had "Betrayed" recorded for some time, and just yesterday decided to re-watch it. I think it's great! But then, I'm a fan of Tom Berenger and think he should have become a major star.

R19 - Mike's Murder is a dud though Winger looks beautiful in it. The climax is laughably bad.

R5 and R13, the Lange Loons are going to burn you in effigy for dissing MUSIC BOX, even though you're right. However I wouldn't call MISSING a great film.

The last Costa-Gavras film I saw was AMEN, about the Vatican looking the other way after being informed about the Nazi death camps. More like a history lesson than a drama, however worthy the subject.

[quote] Lange Loons are going to burn you in effigy for dissing MUSIC BOX

She did receive an Oscar nomination

I think Debra was offered Music Box too, though it was written for Jane Fonda, who the studio decided was too old for it. Debra would have been wrong for it too.

I thought Music Box was pretty uneventful except for the reveal in the end.

I watched Music Box awhile back and it wasn't as good as I remembered. Lange is very good in it and, yes, she received an Oscar nomination.

I would love Mike's Murder to be reissued on Blu-ray, maybe by Criterion, and with Bridges' original cut with Jackson's original songs. Although not sure if that could happen since Bridges passed away and who knows where his original cut is.

I remember finding Betrayed very disturbing back in the day but I haven't seen it since it came out.

Jagged Edge was highly entertaining even with all of the plot holes.

Jeff Bridges was at his peak hotness and made Glenn Close's character lose all sense of professionalism.

Peter Coyote was very sexy as well.

Joe Esterhaz was all over the place at one time, wasn't he?

I watched Jagged Edge again recently. Very boring. And yet another role that Glennie was miscast in.

Why was she miscast?

I can't imagine Winger in the Glenn Close role

I can imagine Winger in Anne Archer's role in Fatal Attraction, but no way was she going to take a supporting role back then.

Can't see her in the Fatal Attraction part either. Close had just enough of the crazy to pull it off. I did like her in Cannery Row, although that got dumped. Then they played it a million times on HBO and that's where I discovered it.

Glenn was perfect for Fatal Attraction.

It would be interesting to see Winger in Broadcast News but I love Holly Hunter in that movie.

the only problem with Glenn in Fatal Attraction is that I didn't find her attractive enough to believe a man would have an affair with her when he's married to Anne Archer

I agree but the way she came on to him at the book party and the restaurant can be seductive to a man, who's wife insists on the kid to sleep in their bed.

r36 see Prince Charles and Arnold Schwartzenegger. Sometimes men cheat with less attractive women.

Glenn has nicer boobies that millions of guys wanked over in this movie

R39, I hardly believe millions of guys have jerked off over Glenn fucking Close.

R40=M

I loved Glenn's non-tanned titties. You know you wanted to suck 'em like Michael D did in the elevator.

Close auditioned for Winger's coveted Wonder Girl role on TV's Wonder Woman, but they went with a brunette to match up better with "sister" Lynda Carter.

At least close looked like a real woman. Megan Fox looked like a vivid video sex doll. And sucked as an actress too with her porn voice. God movies died a painful death the last decade.

I think one of the things that Dan was attracted to Alex in FA was that she was intense and was bold. He wanted to be seduced and, at first, her intensity was arousing. But, of course, it had a downside.

I love Winger but just can't see her as Alex.

I thought that Glenn looked her best in THE JAGGED EDGE. Her hair was styled to soften her strong features and her suits she wore were designed to show off her curves. FATAL ATTRACTION, she looked like the wild woman she was portraying.

Debra is as nuts as Faye Dunaway and less talented.

Winger told Dunaaway that she thought her performance in Mommie Dearest was like Kabuki theatre.

Can you imagine eavesdropping on THAT conversation?

Faye will never live that role down. She has no sense of humor about it.

So when Debra declined Fatal Attraction, is that when they rewrote the role of Alex Forrest as a man?

Close worked in Fatal Attraction partly because she was playing against type. She wasn't typically physically sexy. Believing Michael Douglas would fall for her is a testament to her acting.

I watched Jagged Edge a few years ago. The writing is shockingly bad, just like Flashdance, but Close isn't, unlike Jennifer Beals.

Basic Instinct and Showgirls are classics because Verhoeven had the budget and panache to find the appropriate performances in his actors (or lack thereof) and the entertainment value in the poor writing.

I am not the Lange loon, but I LOVE Music Box. I think it's a great film and fantastic performance by Jessica.

Not a fan of Blue Sky, I wish Lange had won her second Oscar for Box not Sky.

And it would hold up much better all these years later in this climate than Tandy does in Driving Miss Daisy lol

I thought Lange was good in Music Box and Blue Sky, but the movies themselves were lame.

[quote]She has no sense of humor about it.

Maybe it's because it ruined her career? Maybe it's because she's tired of her movie career being reduced to one footnote. She's an academy award winning actress who has worked with the best in the industry. And all people want to do is discuss that one movie, and not the oeuvre that STILL sets her apart from 90% of the actresses in the industry.

I was heartbroken by Winger's choices in the mid to late 80s

She did Urban Cowboy, Officer and a Gentleman, and Terms of Endearment back to back. She was my favorite NEW actress. When she was up against MacLaine for Terms, I remember my friends and I all thought, 'Well, give it to Shirley cuz she'll never have this chance again Debra is DEFINITELY going to win soon."

Then she made Mike's Murder, Legal Eagles (still don't get that one), Black Widow, Betrayed and Everybody Wins (the worst of the lot) and I was like f...u....c....k

Now I wish Debra had the Oscar for Terms instead of that MacLaine woman.

Most of these young bitches today would KILL to have a filmography as iconic and daring as Faye's.

I like Everybody Wins: good cast and more fun than anything else Arthur Miler wrote.

Mike's Murder was a dud. Great Joe Jackson track.

Debra Winter is a terrible actress.

At least Redford was still gorgeous in Legal Eagles.

Winger was Trash: made one stupid mistake after another and never gave a shit about her career. And today she reaps what she sowed as nobody gives a shit about her and hasn’t in over 20 years.

It wasn't Debra that told Faye it was Kabuki (that was a director James Brooks see link)

Debra told Faye that she watched Mommie Dearest ten times to learn how to act.

Still a great compliment.

And I love Faye, Debra, Jessica, Meryl AND Glenn so not a loon (or an equal opportunity loon depending on your viewpoint)

But Sarandon can fuck right off lol

Better link

Betrayed is on amazon prime. I’m watching it now. It’s an enjoyable thriller. They don’t make things like this anymore. Tom B. and Ted Levine (yes, him) are hot as f.

Now we have an actress named after cheese and another who just acts "awww shucks" all the time. In every role. With no variation.

Faye's hair is gorgeous in that clip at R62. And she seems so sane.

Glenn would have been a great Hippolyta to Debbie Wings’ Wonder Girl.

You're misreading Fatal Attraction. He doesn't have an affair with her. It's basically an extended one night stand. Close works because she's brittle and turns him off of extending it to am affair and/or leaving his wife. If she was a potential wife the story wouldn't work.

There is a really interesting interview on the dvd with the art director I think. (forget what his job was)

Anyway he documents how Close was brave enough to let them let her looks deteriorate as the film went on.

In that first scene at the book party when they meet she is really done up to the nines and looks great. Then as her mental condition subsides so does her appearance. She let them put dark eye makeup on her and flatten her hair and light her poorly for the scene after the suicide attempt where she shows up at Dan's office.

The guy said it is not a good look for her but she was without vanity and let herself appear in a way that was best for the character.

[quote] Betrayed is on amazon prime. I’m watching it now. It’s an enjoyable thriller.

did this thread make you seek out the movie?

Let her looks deteriorate as the film went on? My, that was a short journey wasn't it?

Betsy Blair must have loved playing a white supremacist since she was such a liberal.

oh shutup M. Remember your audition for King Kong where they called you a beast? Be nice to G. She's suffered enough.

notice how in the link at r61 Miss Dunaway calls it the Crawford. She always does that. She seems to be unable to see the words Mommie Dearest.

Winger's self-aggrandizement is so tedious. Fact is, once she had enough clout to have some choice over her roles, she consistently chose poorly. Betrayed was her 3rd or 4th terrible film in a row where she played a law enforcement officer or a lawyer.

R57 How dare you disagree with my assessment of Everybody Wins.

Oh wait....maybe I'm thinking of Cannery Row.

She did TWO films with Nolte?

Okay I'm re-watching Everybody Wins.

They should have named it Nobody Wins because it's a stinker.

Fuck Debra Winger picked up a lot of discarded roles from Sissy Spacek - Urban Cowboy, Terms of Endearment & Choirboy.

Though Spacek picked up Marie after Debra Winger declined the role. Shame they never actually made a film together.

I wonder if they rewrote the part of Dottie in "A League of their Own" after Debra left the film. Debra was pretty but she wasn't the beauty that the character was suppose to be. She'd make more sense as the sister Kit.

R78 It's well known she left once Madonna was cast. I don't blame her but Geena Davis was better in the role than Debra would have been.

Is Spacek related to No-Nose Nanette Fabray? They or or they both got the same bad rhinoplasty.

Pauline Kael loved Debra Winger. More than Meryl Streep.

[quote]She recoiled at Fatal Attraction, why would I play a crazy woman

Would have been the easiest money she ever made - not a far walk from the page to the stage on that one, toots.

I started watching Mike’s Murder last night before bed. I like it so far. Mike is hot hot hot. No wonder she wanted that D so bad.

M allegedly based her look in Big Little Lies on Pauline Kael.

Thank you to whomever complimented my beauty in Jagged Edge. Here's a little inside tidbit, I was thinking about losing 3 fucking Oscars in a row to get these tears hoin'

R73 Ms Dunaway has no difficulty saying "Mommie Dearest" in her nororious voicemail..

More Andrew Lloyd Webber stupidity

Tom Berenger allegedly has a drinking problem. For r21.

If Winger was in Betrayed, she didn't look like herself, even her voice was different. I didn't recognize her in this stinker of a movie.

Here's Debra blowing another fart in Shitley's direction!

the funny thing about these casting threads is that most people just mentally project the same exact movie with a different actor. If Winger had done Fatal Attraction, she might have scared off Michael Douglas, who was the draw. She might have had the director replaced. Or it might have been the same exact movie and a forgettable bomb because audiences were never interested in buying tickets to see her, regardless of her talent. Or she might have been powerful enough to demand rewrites that defanged her character to make her more human and less villainous, which would have made the movie suck.

R91, I think Glenn miscast, but I don’t think Debra Winger was the answer. Barbara Hershey would’ve been perfect and maybe even a bigger hit. People have been saying Glennie wasn’t hot enough for the role for thirty years now.

The character wasn't meant to be especially hot. She was horny, up for it, gave blowjobs in elevators and initially agreed to a one-off weekend fuckfest.

I've seen many straight men in my life cheat on their wives with average looking women. The midlife crisis guys go for the young hot girls. Lots of men are just looking to be with someone new.

The arc of “you fuck an ugly woman and she’ll become a psycho stalker” isn’t as interesting as “attractive woman is rejected for the first time and it becomes her unraveling.”

R95 the character was already deeply troubled before she met Dan. Its implied she was abused by her dad.

At least people remember Faye. Debra is forgotten.

I’ve never had to do a cheap slasher flick myself. But if the phone isn’t ringing, you have to do what you have to do.

M you were in "Still Of The Night" where you showed your tits and ass.

M's salacious cameo in the lowbrow raunchfest "The Pom Pom Girls".

For everyone insisting Glenn wasn't attractive enough for the Fatal Attraction role: First, Glenn is what used to be called a handsome woman with strong, almost masculine features. Those features were played up well in the film with big power 80s hair and power bitch wardrobe that suited the sexually aggressive character well. In short, she looked terrific, and you absolutely could imagine a guy spending a couple of days with her for some hot and (what he thinks is) noncommittal sex. She's more sexy than pretty, and you see it especially in the scene when she's next to his pretty but bland wife.

Second, look at Monica Lewinsky, Paula Broadwell (the Petraeus affair), Lauren Sanchez, and scores of other women much richer and more powerful men than the Michael Douglas character risked their marriages and livelihood for. Glenn in her prime was absolutely a catch by comparison.

[quote] I’ve never had to do a cheap slasher flick myself.

Actually you did, it was called "Still of the Night" which you yourself said was a stinker

R101- Briliantly said-

I thought Glenn looked awesome in the film and she was totally hot.

The idea of Winger and Hershey (two actresses I love) is insanely cool too...

Love FA and loved Glenn.

People don't understand that sexy people aren't necessarily conventionally attractive and vice versa. Think Madonna.

As R104 said

Look at Helen Mirren, imagine what she could have done with the role of Alex - she can turn on the sexual charm full tilt

[quote]Look at Helen Mirren, imagine what she could have done with the role of Alex

We have an idea.

Barbara Hershey would've been all kinds of crazy in Fatal Attraction x10.

I don’t think Debra is nearly as crazy as Faye. She was more a very aggressive bitch (she had a lot of “masculine energy”) who did a lot of drugs. As we see with Faye, mental illness (if untreated) just gets worse as you get older. Debra can still act like a cunt (like on WWHL) but she seems to live a pretty sane life (speaking of long marriages, by the way).

She would have been an interesting choice for Fatal Attraction, actually. But she’s someone whose career and talent has been highly romanticized because she “left Hollywood” (I put that in quotes for a reason).

I just finished watching Mike’s Murder. Meh. It may been more interesting in it’s original, violent, non-chronological edit. The movie got less interesting as it went on, which is probably why it was intended to unfold backwards. Mike was a hot piece of ass though. I didn’t know Paul Winfield was gay in real life. I loved him in White Dog.

According to the internet 'Actresses Who Turned Down or Considered to Play Alex Forrest in Fatal Attraction' included our Faye.

Dunaway circa 1987 as Alex Forrest would have been incredibly fascinating.

I want to visit that parallel universe.

Wow, here's Faye and Michael Douglas together in that era.

I wonder if this was when she was being considered for Fatal Attraction.

Were they also fucking? We know Douglas was a sex addict, and Faye's always game for a little sumthin' sumthin'

Miss Dunaway was also always game for a Kusturica film!

R112, it was the hit of all of Europe and Cannes!

Here's Faye AND Debra (near her recent husband Timothy Hutton) and Tom Cruise, and Molly and Harrison, and De Niro!

I wonder if this is when Debra told Faye she watched Mommie Dearest over and over to learn how to act.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during that photo shoot!

Faye as Alex would have been fantastic. I can't see Debra in the role. She's a different kind of crazy.

Faye as Norma Desmond was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the past 30 years. Who cares if she couldn't sing it?

Ooooh, I think they were fucking.

R113- But it was not WELL SOLD in this country! But she was BRILLIANT in it!

R114, Thanks for sharing that cover. I don't remember ever seeing it. It predates the Vanity Fair series by a long mile. I tried to guess the date before looking, and it was a head-fuck! An established Cruise (if Life wasn't taking a gamble) would be on this cover post-Top Gun (so early 1987 or later), but looks a few years younger than that to me (so it made it a head-scratcher). Winger glows with youth but is established and must be doing well enough, so I figured it might have been during the success of Black Widow, which was a very small hit (so early 1987). I imagined this was before Hutton crested with his flops Made in Heaven/A Time of Destiny, which ended his major leading man status (so I figured mid-1987 or before). Dunaway had made a semi-comeback with Barfly (so late 1987, I figured). Molly Ringwald looks mature beyond her teenage roles (so roughly 1988). De Niro was difficult to peg, but I figured he looks right out of his Awakenings era (around 1990 or before). Harrison Ford looks straight out of Regarding Henry (filmed 1990), which really threw me, but this would definitely be in the mid-to-late 1980s, when he was taking more serious roles to break out of his Indiana Jones/Han Solo mold. April 1987 makes sense if you look at it from a career standpoint, but the way some of the actors looked (some slightly older than they were) made it hard!

As far as guessing too late, I think the inclusion of Hutton was the biggest tell, as he wouldn't make a cover like this by the time Made in Heaven flopped (with no recovery).

R118, April 1987

MARY!

Did Shitley Maclaine ever confirm that she was the victim of a fart attack?

I remember Shitley said Debra was turbulent and flatulent.

Watching Terms in TV right now and I can’t believe I never picked up before that Aurora calls Flap “limited.” She should be a DL legend for that alone!

I heard Lucy wanted her role in Fatal Attraction, but Gary talked her out of it.

R96 When? I don't remember that scene.

Faye was right about Arizona Dream.

It was very popular at Cannes.

Warner put it in only two theaters in U.S. one being in Seattle.

Then pulled it out of both in a week.

Then after waiting a couple of years to finally release it on dvd. Warners cut 20 minutes out of it, including the scene below which is an important arc in the Depp/Dunaway story line.

Depp said the same thing about the release history of Dream that Faye complains about on the voicemail. And this was back in the early 90s when he was still beloved.

r124 in the hospital cafeteria when she asks him if she can have the kids. She says you've always recognized your limitations. It is one of your most best qualities.

R124 no not then, I always remembered that one. It’s the very beginning before Deb gets married. And she says it in such a Barbara Thorndyke kind of way too.

It’s hilarious I just noticed it.

r92 NICE. VERY SHARP SUGGESTION. PERFECT. Hershey always had a kooky vibe. She's stunning. Would have been great to see her in such a villainous role.

R125, Faye may be a (putting it nicely) a pain in the ass to those on set, but her instincts are good when it comes to what works and what doesn't. Her criticisms of Mommie Dearest are accurate as well. Faye is great in it but the movie needed to be reigned in at times.

R109: Mike’s Murder is a favorite of mine, but the original version would’ve made it much more interesting. And yes that actor who played Mike had a hot ass in those tennis shorts!

Tom berenger was so hot in this

Hershey did play a sort of villain in Black Swan and was one of the best parts of the film. She was creepy as hell.

She was evil in A Killing in a Small Town.

Hershey played Madame Merle in Jane Campion's version of The Portrait of a Lady, who is a villain.

Emma Thompson said that she auditioned for Fatal Attraction. Her Alex might've been interesting. I imagine that she would've played it more cool and upper crust.

Hershey played a villain in The Natural quite memorably.

She also takes part in a gang rape in Last Summer.

Miranda Richardson had the role at one point. She would have knocked it out of the park if she believed in the character (she didn't).

R134 Emma Thompson was so young--I think she would have been in her 20s. That would have been an interesting but very different dynamic than Glenn playing the role in her 40s.

Hershey was the dark angel in The Natural while Glenn was the good one.

I think it made it interesting and made the film more surprising having Close in the role. She always played such nice women that you wouldn't think she'd be the trouble she turns out to be.

Glenn was brilliant.

It would have been interesting to see someone like Michelle Pfeiffer in the role. She was probably too young at the time but I think she would have been good.

There are audition clips on the dvd. It is clear why Close got the role. She's almost as perfect in the audition as she was in the film. Anne Archer not so much. Her audition was adequate but she did the scene where she finds out he cheated much better in the film.

Yeah, r140 I was shocked at how bad Archer was in the rehearsal. Close's performance isn't that much different from the rehearsals. She completely enveloped Alex from the start.

I can't think of many examples of an actor (in this case, Glenn Close) playing against type so masterfully.

Her trajectory after that was interesting. But, it would have been better had she been male (she turned 40 when Fatal Attraction came out).

She followed up with Dangerous Liaisons, where she was even better (in a better film, which has aged well). And, she got a fun, respectable supporting role in Reversal of Fortune. But, Immediate Family was a dud (it sounds like a saint-role similar to those at the beginning of her career, and it was directed by the guy who got Jodie Foster her first Oscar, so she was probably strategic there). She got to be in Zeffirelli's Hamlet, but as Mel Gibson's mother (already heading into his mid-30s, he was too old, even though a lot of guys are who do the role famously, ahem, Kenneth Branagh). She got to work with Istvan Szabó and won at Venice, so that wasn't bad. She got Emmy/Globe/SAG attention with three projects, but she had to go to TV to do it. Spielberg put her in a movie, but it was a in a small role an no one even knew it was her. By 1993, she did that star-studded turkey with Meryl Streep where they both played Chilean.

It wasn't until the mid-90s where things kind of briefly picked up for her again and she did Cruella, as well as worked with Tim Burton on Mars Attacks! when he was still kind of good. She got to have a substantial role in the Harrison Ford hit Air Force One, and worked with Robert Altman.

She has done fine her whole career. But, when you look at what Hannibal Lecter did for Anthony Hopkins, for example, and compare what Alex Forrest did for her, there was an imbalance there. Even Jeremy Irons got to work with Malle, Bertolucci, Cronenberg, and Soderberg (pre-Oscar) within five year of winning his Oscar. It's interesting.

It’s amazing that G was so known for “good wife” parts before that. Fatal attraction was how I first knew who she was and I was so amazed to Shortly find out later that she was typecast as something totally different up until then.

That’s how well she embodied the roll, I guess. Still , I never bought into that she was “robbed” of the Oscar. Nomination was well deserved, though.

*ROLE goddamn it

R139 I think having someone too beautiful would've changed the dynamics too much.

R145 Same thing with Silence of the Lambs had it been Michelle. The strength of the character would've been lost to her great beauty. It woulda been a basic Hitchcock blonde. Starling being slightly butch worked for the move Jonathan Demme made.

Glenn is perfect in the film. Even M. agrees.

have not seen an interview with her where she does not come across as anything but a snobby shithead

Shitley MacLaine winning Best Actress. Her acceptance speech was over 3 minutes long. I love how she hugs Debra Winger on her way to the stage. I bet she secretly wanted to strangle Debra.

I fucking love Debra Winger and have been a fan since the first time I ever heard her utter a line. Her speaking voice did something for me. But I would be fucking terrified of that bitch. But I've never had any desire to meet a hero or even just someone I admired. Some things are just best left where they are.

I wonder how long at took Shirley to come up with "turbulently brilliant." Both a complement and and insult wrapped in one.

R149 ooooh Rock ...

Always eerie to see that clip considering he died a year later.

Was this before or after Liza’s first trip to Betty Ford?

before r152. 1984---she did The Rink on Broadway then went straight to Betty Ford.

I think Debra Winger was the 80s movie star before Julia Roberts. No one went to a "Debra Winger movie" like they did to a Julia Roberts movie. But she was in some good movies that made her movie star. Just not to the same degree.

R153 thanks! What an odd (and campy) choice of presenters for such a major award.

Love Winger. She is an intelligent and perceptive actress who does not do BULLSHIT. Kind of like Lange. She could have done SO much more, too. Great actress.

Ms Shirley McClaine loathed one of these actresses. She absolutely adores the other. Guess which on played her daughter?

That was a campy choice to present Best Actress. For Best Actor they were kind of campy too picking Stallone and Dolly Parton. Plus oddly they sat Duvall and MacLaine right next to each other.

I always mixed up Debra Winter and Demi Moore.

I can't believe that Urban Cowboy turns 40 years old this year! I remember what a phenomenon that movie and soundtrack was when it was released. Gilley's in Houston was a cultural phenomenon. As a kid, I watched that movie over and over again on HBO, which was the only cable channel we had along with MTV.

Winger would have been a great choice for "Fatal Attraction." She could have played crazy VERY well. It wouldn't have been that great of an acting stretch for her; she WAS crazy. If she'd done the role she might well have won an Oscar.

I wonder why they couldn't delay Broadcast News a bit to accommodate her pregnancy.

The only good thing about "Urban Cowboy" was Scott Glenn. He really made an impression in that movie. The only exceptional thing about Winger's performance was that she humped a mechanical bull. Anyway, that movie sucked. Who gave a shit if Bud and Sissy got back together again? They were both stupid rednecks with double digit IQs. "Urban Cowboy" was based on a magazine article and Bud and Sissy were based on real people named Dew and Betty. Dew and Betty eventually divorced. Despite the sappy happily ever after ending of Urban Cowboy, my guess is that Bud and Sissy eventually divorced, too.

She was rumored to be the first choice for Postcards from the Edge too.

R158 wow what was with that year? Plus M was the previous winner and was actually at the ceremony so why wouldn’t she have presented that?

This must have been the last year Johnny Carson hosted, I guess.

1984

R164 I find that hard to believe. Mike Nichols had a permanent hard on for M. in the 80's with Silkwood & Heartburn so I'd say M. was first choice. No way would Shirley would with Winger again.

Winger was too busy making the flop adaptation of The Sheltering Sky. Although I think I need to watch it again. It had beautiful cinematography and the score was stunning.

Madonna trashed her performance in it because Madonna was a huge fan of the book.

Wasn’t Winger nominated for TSS?

R168, I watched it a few months ago for the first time. The cinematography was stunning. And Winger is possibly at her most raw. A real naked performance (Annette Bening wanted that role or passed--I forget which--even though it was a bomb). Quite admirable work. Winger wasn't the problem.

The script at times is just so, so terrible. The dialogue can be so trite. The author distanced himself from the final output.

I included some screen shots I took while watching.

R169 She only ever received 3 nominations for An Officer and a Gentlemen (1982), Terms of Endearment (1983) & Shadowlands (1993).

Travolta and Winger were perfect8in Urban Cowboy.

This thread made me search out the Betrayed movie and I'm watching it now!

The first time I ever saw Debra Winger was in the disco movie "Thank God It's Friday" (1978).

R174 You have my pity.

Don't understand why she was nominated for Lead in Shadowlands. She is supporting at the most and really isn't all that memorable.

She did get to do a deathbed scene with her son again though, so maybe the Academy were just remembering how good she was in "Endearment"?

I wonder if this is where Lea Michelle got the idea to start farting on co-star

Lea didn't just fart, r177, she took a giant shit in their wig!

[quote] Don't understand why she was nominated for Lead in Shadowlands.

Lack of strong female roles that year, so she made it on the list cause they needed five in the category

[quote] This thread made me search out the Betrayed movie and I'm watching it now!

You will have to give us a review once you finish watching it

r167 Winger was mentioned before Nichols signed on as director.

R179 she had A Dangerous Woman come out the same year. It was probably a nomination honoring both performances but they probably went with the more sentimental performance over the crazy she played in ADW. Michelle Pfieffer and Julia Roberts were on the shortlist for nominations that didn't get the final spot I think Winger took.

She really hated making An Officer and a Gentlemen. Didn't even show up at the ceremony for her first Oscar nomination.

I just watched Betrayed (not R173) and I liked it much better all these years later.

It really got under my skin, and I loved Winger's performance, whereas years ago I was must 'meh'

Tom Berenger was scary but Ted Levine (it puts the lotion on it's skin) was terrifying as a complete racist psychopath.

Why did she hate working on Officer? Richard Gere or Taylor Hackford or both?

I heard she and Richard did it, she wanted more, he didn't - but that was years ago and could have just been based in misogyny.

Anyone know the truth?

She has stated openly that she was repulsed by kissing Gere and likened him to a brick wall or something. A few years ago I read an interview with Gere where he claimed to have run into Debra at a party and approaching her by saying "So you still running around saying terrible things about me?" And in absolute Deb Winger fashion told him "yes" and walked away.

Debra sounds like a woman who knows how to hate

Winger may have had problems with Gere but her real problems were with Don Simpson the producer. He was really rough on her about her weight and wanted her to take pills to reduce water retention which she found humiliating. I think there is a Barbara Walters interview on youtube where she talks about it and another more recent one where she says the people she had trouble with on that film are all dead now so joked I guess I can talk about them.

Gere has admitted to being kind of an asshole on that film. There is a youtube video where he talks about how Louis Gossett Jr. got so fed up with him one day he walked off the set and got in his car and left.

"Shadowlands" isn't great, but I thought she and Hopkins were fine and kept the sadness from spilling over into sentiment. I don't remember feeling hers was really a supporting role, but it's been decades since I saw it. Hopkins was nominated for "The Remains of the Day" that year, so Winger got the "Shadowlands" nom instead.

She talks about Don Simpson in Searching for Debra Winger.

Don Simpson was a pig. If he had lived he might have been #metoo'd before Weinstein.

Isn’t he mentioned repeatedly in “You’ll Never Make Love in this Town Again” as a fan of S&M and coke?

[quote] Michelle Pfieffer and Julia Roberts were on the shortlist for nominations that didn't get the final spot I think Winger took.

Roberts was not going to get nominated for "The Pelican Brief" but Winger did edge out Michelle Pfieffer for "The Age of Innocence"

And the entire cast and crew of Fatal Attraction let out a collective sigh of relief.

That year Winger got the Golden Globe nomination for "Dangerous Woman" NOT for "Shadowlands" - Academy Rules states you can only submit one movie role per category

So given the choice, Winger felt she had a better shot with "Shadowlands" than "Dangerous Woman"

BTW the other actress Winger edged out for that final fifth spot was Juliette Binoche in "Blue"

Go 8:19 into video she talks about the Chauvinism on Officer & Gentleman and how she was able to get through the love scenes with Gere

This is interesting

Richard Gere and Debra Winger the International Rome Film Festival Closing Ceremony in 2011

r49 Fayes a fool...most of us love MD and watch it over and over again. Who cares why we loved it..we loved it!

I feel the same way about Faye in Mommie Dearest as I do about Elizabeth Berkley. The movies they’re in are entertaining because of their performances. They’re memorable. Who won the Oscars for Best Actress in the years they came out? Bet people aren’t still talking about those performances as they are about Joan and Nomi.

R179, that wasn't an especially weak year for actresses at all. Pfeiffer should have gotten the nomination instead of Winger. and Holly Hunter deserved the win. Hunter also getting a nom for supporting for The Firm was overkill, though. Ellen Barkin, Julianne Moore, Jodie Foster, and Patricia Arquette had decent performances that could have gotten nominations (although back then they wouldn't have nominated for a film like True Romance). I think Demi Moore was also hilariously trying to get one for Indecent Proposal.

^ Forgot to add, the Oscars also completely ignored The Joy Luck Club (not surprisingly). But there were a few nominee-worthy performances there as well.

R201 details on Demi's Oscar bid please?!

1993 WAS not an especially weak year for Best Actress but I would now have awarded Bassett for WLGTDWI as Hunter should have won in 88 for BN.

In a Vanity Fair article it said that Winger "made a point" of sleeping with every male co-star she worked with. But Richard Gere was the exception; he didn't want to sleep with her. And that's supposedly where her animosity for him comes from. At any rate, in a fairly recent interview where she's asked about what co-stars of hers she liked kissing the most she diplomatically said she "dug" kissing them all. Well, no matter what their feeling for each other, Winger and Gere definitely simulated passion for each other very well in AOAAG. The movie clearly shows Gere shoving his tongue in her mouth and her sucking on it. Yech.

Did he suck on her nipples after she sprinkled them with tap water?

R203, I don't have details, just a vague memory of industry and press people laughing about it. Although I may have confused it with Disney's also ridiculed effort to get her a nom for The Scarlett Letter:

Thanks R206 it's always hilarious to look back to how deluded some people were and how very ambitious!

That Tribune article is hilarious!

R193 Yes.

Also, he didn't just have sex with hookers, he liked to beat them too.

R201 I think Julianne Moore's bottomless scene in Short Cuts killed any chance at her getting a nomination.

I remember being shicked and appalled that an actress would show such disrespect by flaunting her gross orange hairy unkempt fanny right in the faces of people trying to enjoy that movie!

I loved Anne Archer in Short Cuts. She really channeled her character’s disgust and horror when she finds out about what her boyfriend’s fishing party did when they encountered a dead woman’s body

R211 I remember watching it on cable with mother. At first I thought the actress must have been wearing skimpy orange lingerie until she turned around and MOONED the audience with that big white unclothed arse!

Chris Penn was really good in Short Cuts too.

Julianne Moore said she jumped at the chance to do that bottomless scene in Short Cuts = the reason is that America is so puritanical when it comes to nudity, why not have a scene where two people are talking like everything is normal, except the woman is naked from the bottom down.

That is why it is so shocking, as this would be a normal scene if everyone was clothed. But with the woman being nude from the bottom down, make it shocking - so why is that? That is the point Julianne wanted to make.

I thinl also Altman deliberately wanted his cast to do distasteful things - Robert Downey Jr. farted and Jenny Lee made phone sex noises.

Winger posted a recent photo of her and Shirley on her Instagram not that long ago. They looked chummy.

Renewed terms of endearment.

Chris Penn's performance in Short Cuts haunts me to this day. I've never been able to re-watch the movie.

Short Cuts had so many great performances. I agree with r212 about Anne Archer. What a scene. Even as hot as Fred Ward is, just leaving a body like that to continue fishing? Disgusting.

Chris Penn was very chilling in SC. I think I prefer his acting over his brother. RIP.

Annie Ross and Lily Tomlin were also excellent.

Winger likes to whine about how various things set her career back, but she was so difficult and made so many people on sets unhappy that she really has no one but herself to blame for how her career petered out.

I think the problem with Short Cuts was that there were so many good performance (Julianne Moore, Jennifer Jason Leigh and Madeline Stowe had all won supporting awards for it) that the academy didn't know who to nominate. Lily Tomlin was also being pushed by the studio for a nom. Then the whole ensemble won a special Golden Globe. They all probably cancelled each other out. So Holly Hunter and Emma Thompson wound up getting duplicate nominations.

The Oscars never really warmed to Altman, unfortunately.

I thought Madeleine Stowe gave the stronger performance as Moore's sister in Short Cuts.

Regardless of Winger's behavior, you can't tell me the best that an actress of her caliber can do now is that dreadful Ashton Kutcher mess The Ranch on Netflix?

Sam Elliott as well. Both are much too talented for that unfunny garbage.

OP What about the string of bombs Glenn Close did AFTER Fatal Attraction? Why do you give her a pass, but not Debra?

Immediate Family 1989

Hamlet 1990

Meeting Venus 1991

House of the Spirits 1993

The Paper 1994

Mary Reilly 1996

Mars Attacks 1996

Paradise Road 1997

Cookie's Fortune 1999

It's a shame Cookie's Fortune flopped because it was a fantastic film. The rest, meh. Glenn stopped making good choices.

R225, By 1996, Close had 101 Dalmatians, which was huge due in part to pre-established Disney property, part commercial touch from the director, and part Close's performance. You also Emmy/Globe/SAG nominations and wins for three TV projects. She won Venice for Meeting Venus. Mars Attacks! is a cult classic and she's aces in it. She also got to work with Robert Altman. Not to forget that Fatal got her Dangerous Liaisons, and her performance in retrospect is the one most people who are familiar with the race deserved the Oscar. She had a saucy turn in Reversal of Fortune as well.

This isn't to say that Close didn't have bombs post-Fatal Attraction. This is only to say she had more success mixed in, unliked Winger. After Terms, in the next ten years, Black Widow was a small hit and she had the critical success of Shadowlands/Dangerous Woman, which pales compared to Close's ten years post-Fatal.

The question isn't to drag down Close to Winger's level. Winger was difficult to work with on set and none of her successful films were due primarily to her performance (unlike Close in Fatal Attraction). She also turned down a lot of premium roles. The answers are all there as to why Winger's career turned out the way it did. And, yes, sex also played a role (but not as much). The question is why Close didn't get more opportunities to shine post-Fatal. And the answer is in part due to her sex, as I was trying to discuss in R142. Her "bombs" were more indicative of limited opportunities, where Winger had more opportunities and wasted/sabotaged them.

*She also had (not "You also")

**think deserved the Oscar.

I can remember eagerly following the drama over Debra Winger's casting in A League of Their Own. She wouldn't sign her contract until some demands were met. The studio gave her until five o'clock on Friday. She didn't sign. They had Geena Davis standing by ready to take the role and put her on a plane that weekend and dropped Winger from the film. I think that ended Winger's friendship with Penny Marshall. Marshall had stood by her once before over negotiations but this time she wanted to do the film and cut Winger loose.

r225 Close was struggling in the 90s with her films but that was also when she did Sunset Boulevard on stage and was a huge success. (ask Patti)

Penny Marshall and one of the producers confirmed Debra dropped out of ALOTO right before filming started because of Madonna. Coincidentally I'm sure, right before Winger dropped out, The Advocate ran an interview with Madonna where she trashed the film The Sheltering Sky and said Winger was all wrong for it (Madonna had wanted the role).

Madonna is such a bitch. Who is she to criticize Winger considering the films she made?

It must drive her crazy that she never made it as an actress. I remember she used to bad mouth Sharon Stone a lot. Stone brought it up in an interview saying I don't know why she hates me so much. The reporter said because you gave the performance in Basic Instinct that Madonna has been trying to give and failing.

BTW Stone won an Emmy for The Practice. I didn't know that.

Can you imagine Madonna in The Sheltering Sky? Horrifying.

I remember reading that Madonna and Winger might potentially be in a film together and then I remembered M trashing Winger in The Sheltering Sky. Obviously it wasn't going to happen. I can't see Winger in Davis' role. I could see her in Lori Petty's role.

[quote] Regardless of Winger's behavior, you can't tell me the best that an actress of her caliber can do now is that dreadful Ashton Kutcher mess The Ranch on Netflix?

Why are you putting the onus on us? She has to answer for her own choices, not us.

Didn't The Ranch get rid of her character too on that show? Did her cunty behaviour get her tossed again?

She's a great actress but even her strong performances don't seem to be worth the headache of actually working with her to get them.

Winger on Anthony Hopkins:

"As for Tony, he's a friend. He has become even more American than I am now and lives permanently in Los Angeles. He loves the place. He's nuts, but he's great. You need more people like that. He does not mind what he says, knows his way around a film set and has such charm and talent that people always like working with him."

Glenn Close was 40 when she finally hit A list-dom with Fatal Attraction. Her run as a top leading lady was always going to be limited. Winger, on the other hand, was extremely young when she hit it big. She could have really had a good, long, run if she had fucking behaved herself.

Could never stand her mid-western accent that would come thru in all of her roles, by the way. Even when she was playing a Texan.

Winger is a good actress, but she's not so good she's worth all the headache.

When you see Marilyn Monroe in Some Like It Hot, and then you hear the horror stories of what Wilder and the cast/crew went through in dealing with her, you think "well, OK, it was awful but the result was worth it." There's nothing about Winger that makes you think she's worth whatever it took to get that performance.

Winger did a Broadway play a few years ago and clashed in the press with David Mamet, the director and writer.

Shirley MacLaine says in one of her books that Winger didn't seem to be able to act unless she was in a fight with someone. (She fought with everyone on Terms, the director, Shirl, Jeff Daniels, the girl who played Patsy.)

oh and probably George Dzundza too since he was fired and replaced with John Lithgow during the shoot.

R240 She sounds like my mother.

BUCK WOULD NEVER HAVE MARRIED DEBRA WINGER!

I wonder if she was offered Misery. I could see her doing well in that.

Bette Midler was the first choice for Misery. I wouldn't have thought people would think "Ah shucks, Bette won't do it. Let's try Debra Winger.."

R206, the only thing I agreed with in the article was Boys on the Side for a Best Picture. That’s an underrated movie that still holds up. I think it should’ve gotten the nomination with Whoopi for Best Actress and Mary Louise Parker for supporting.

I disagree, R238. There’s something magnetic and fascinating about watching Debra Winger on screen. She may not technically be the greatest actress, but she’s a terrific movie star.

With Glenn Close, you always see the wheels turning. Everything is a planned choice and feels very rehearsed. I’m sure that’s great in the theater, but it comes across as forced as the screen. Debra was much more naturalistic.

[quote]With Glenn Close, you always see the wheels turning. Everything is a planned choice and feels very rehearsed

So you are saying she is like "click click click?"

Glenn was a revelation in this and in spite of excellent reviews for earlier roles she hadn't truly become a star. She deserved this opportunity to prove herself.

Debra had several opportunities already.

Does anyone know if FA led directly to her being offered Dangerous Liaisons or she was already cast in this before FA opened?

Fatal Attraction was released on September 16, 1987 whereas Dangerous Liasons went into production on May 30, 1988.

R250 wow, do you know how long it took to film? That was speedy to get it released in 1988!

The time Debra made Andy cry.

[quote]Does anyone know if FA led directly to her being offered Dangerous Liaisons or she was already cast in this before FA opened?

Close had her eye on Dangerous Liaisons for a while. When the RSC left the Broadway production they were going to put in an American cast head by Close, Kevin Spacey and Kelly McGillis. Ticket sales were dwindling over the summer so they decided to close instead. Big mistake since Close would have been in the show during the release of Fatal Attraction where she was the most talked about woman in the country. So she probably would have been a draw on Broadway.

I'm guessing the huge success of Fatal Atttration helped her get the role in DL.

Slightly off topic (but of the same era) but The Boost was on TV late last nite. It was so infamous because of all the crazy Sean Young /James Woods shit that I had to see it. Wow talk about hilariously awful.

As far as Woods and Young, what really happened? Do we know?

R253 thank you!

r255 Woods later admitted that a lot of the stuff said about Young stalking him was said to placate his then fiancee. I think they just had an affair but he made it into much more legally.

I mean, yes, Young is nuts but I think Woods is even worse.

The two of them on that film set together. Lord.

I think Young might be an example of that saying "behind every bitch is a man who made her that way."

Woods made her that way.

I read an interview years ago with Sean Young. Early 2010s? I forget where. I learned she was a landlord to supplement her income. She seemed practical and down-to-earth and like someone you couldn’t bullshit. I’d love for her to have a comeback.

I think it was “ Sean Young: The EW profile” from 2008.

Also, she rules for getting. snapped at an awards after party she crashed with 1) Sandra Bullock, 2) Glenn Close, and 3) Brangelina. This was back in 2011 I think.

Debra Winger & Sean Young in a film together would have been something to see.