58 and no retirement savings

Those that are 58 and still have sugar daddies, congrats!

I'd like to hear personal stories why you didn't save (or not saving) for retirement. Did you spend your money on drinks or drugs, dining at fine restaurants, porn, rent boys, clothes, or a gay cruise? Why didn't you tuck a few dollars into a saving or investment account? Perhaps you didn't save because of unforeseen medical expenses, boyfriend or partner scammed you, or you made a bad investment.

I'm dedicating this next song to OP.

I think I always knew I'd be OK. I never wasted my money on drugs and alcohol or other vices, but on travel and plastic surgery.

The latter is what helped me snag a rich husband.

Everyone has been threatening my faggy little life since I was three.

I don’t plan on leaving anyone anything and I’m comfortable being uncomfortable as long as I can hustle up appropriate footwear.

No retirement savings at 58 is scary. Start today. There are immediate tax benefits to putting money in an IRA or 401k, it does not matter whether you itemize or take standard deduction.

I'm depending on my future inheritance

Paying rent/ morgage is enough to wipe out 50% of some people's income. Add food, clothing, car, etc. and they can barely keep their heads above water. And don't start that bullshit about, "just get a roommate or 2 more jobs." Ask yourself why are people like Bezos earning billions while there are Amazon workers who are being disabled by their daily job functions, while they earn slighly over minimum wage?

Even now, figure out what you can stash away and forget about having every payday. If you have access to a 401k--put money there. You can always do an IRA

The oldest Gen Z’ers graduated this year so I think him and people like him should just quit their jobs and commit. Make some room for the young girls. Their time is up ;*

My husband and I started planning and taking the necessary steps for a comfortable retirement at least 25 years ago. We'll be mortgage-free by the end of the year, and will retire in our late 50s next year. I also should add that we have had some incredibly good fortune in our careers, in that sacrifices we made (and that many others would not have bothered themselves with) eventually paid off. So my advice to others would be to start planning early, do what you can to prepare through the years, make career choices with your eye on the future, and hope/pray for some good old-fashioned dumb luck. The longer you wait, the more limited or later your retirement will be, but don't let that stop you from getting started with a plan, no matter your age.

I've always assumed I'll just commit suicide if things get rough.

Great advice, r11 - for another thread! This is the OLD FAG/NO MONEY thread.

Personally, I had a 10-year stretch of making over 250k a year and I blew it on fabulous travel, taking people out to dinners, clothes, expensive rent and gifts for various relatives. I also invested money with a horrible money manager. I had 25% less than what I put into his fund after 10 years.

While I do have a little money - it's as good as nothing given how ridiculously expensive everything is now.

My plan is to rot away in my rent stabilized sublet (unless i get kicked out), live on my social security and what little shitty work I can find on the side.

It can be done. My ex lives like a pauper in LA. He seems quite content.

A LOT of people are in the same boat. Median savings are like $100,000. The average American can’t afford to save - Especially with a family. Gay men theoretically have it better - but there was also never the driver to push to make a lot of money to support a family.

Many of those 50+ assumed we would never live to retirement because of AIDS. Until about 2000, I was just waiting for the clock to start ticking on the 5 year incubation period. I’m sure many were more diligent and less paranoid. But seeing so many guys I knew die young of AIDS - and having 5 uncles aunts and father die before 68 from cancer - planning for retirement was not a priority. Living for today and worrying about dying young were my obsessions,

My partner has saved maybe $40,000. But he did inherit a house in the Midwest. But even at 57, I can’t get him to take financial planning seriously. I’ve gotten serious - but also know I’m likely to die before 75 so I’m not freaking out. My bigger concern is still dying before I get to retire at 65.

When 10% have 90% of the wealth are we shocked? How did we allow this to happen? We are the dumbest idiots on earth. 90% of us are fighting over 10% of the wealth but by all means lets keep worshipping the rich and greed.

If you're in your late 50's and really have nothing--saving isn't going to do much. Are you going to inherit? If not, start investigating local, state and federal programs that assist low income seniors. Seriously. I got my mom into a HUD senior apartment building a couple of years ago. Her rent will always be 30% of her SS income. If she had stayed in her previous apartment, the rent alone was greater than her SS check and she would have to continue to work just to pay rent. Look into now because waiting lists for low income senior buildings are years/decades long.

Oh jez, I didn’t know my dad came on here! This place has gone to shit!

R15 it's not greed it is being responsible in preparation for your retirement.

For me, I'm 58 and have about $850,000. I hoping, knocking on wood, to double that in the years before retirement (additional savings, 401K, and a small inheritance). I also live in a rent control building for 25 years and that has been helpful as well.

R13, you are living the consequence of your actions. Everyone, you need to have a plan as, we all know, a lot of us will just have ourselves to count on (those who are single - which I am).

"I never wasted my money on drugs and alcohol or other vices, but on travel and plastic surgery."

This is the most DL thing I've ever read.

R19, okay, you go girl!

OP, in retirement you can always move to Palm Springs and share a home with other gays. I see a lot of this and many guys are quite happy with this arrangement.

Anyone and everyone should read a little book called The Automatic Millionaire - it's not beautifully-written prose, but it can also be read in an afternoon. The book takes you through different scenarios that shows you how you can't afford NOT to save money, through the magic of compound interest.

I read it when I was about 33, which was a little late, but it changed the way I think about saving money in general - not just for retirement. And, the book's promise is real - I'm a millionaire. On paper - I don' t have a bucket full of cash sitting under my sink, but I'm a millionaire.

The book's thinking is easy to understand and easy to implement.

Thanks R22. I found that you really need to do research and and make plans for yourself. No one else is going to do it unless you have a financial advisor (pros and cons to that too).

R22, how old are you (real years not grindr years)?

"[R13], you are living the consequence of your actions. Everyone, you need to have a plan as, we all know, a lot of us will just have ourselves to count on (those who are single - which I am)."

Oh, I'm very aware of the consequences of my actions. That was the point of my post. Anyway. I'm adapting. I live a very low-maintenance life and therefore want for nothing.

Invest as soon as possible. It’s never too early to start. And don’t spend any money on useless shit.

Oh god, I was laid off in my mid-forties as my entire field was sent overseas, and spent every cent I had saved until then on retraining, I had one month's expenses left when I got the first job in the new field. So yeah, if a cruel fate says you're going flat broke at 45, a comfortable early retirement is not happening!

So since then I've been earning good money and have saved and invested diligently, but I'll never be able to catch up to the people who had better luck.

Regarding inheritance. My ex always assumed he was going to inherit a lot of money when his father (a widower) died. His father was wealthy with multiple houses, a boat and a plane. My ex never saved, thus never invested, and spent more than he made on clothes, shoes, trips abroad and eating out six nights a week. He ran up massive credit card in the process. What my ex didn't anticipate was that his old man would remarry very late in life - not once but twice. My ex's eventual inheritance didn't even cover his credit card debt, let alone set him up for retirement. Making matters worse was that my ex was already in his mid 60's when his father died and he had no means to dig himself out of debt. He had to file for bankruptcy, lost his house, and now lives on SS.

[quote] My ex's eventual inheritance didn't even cover his credit card debt

Is that why he's your "ex'?

Having seen my parents retire themselves in the past 5 years I think there is a lot of misinformation out there.

1 - You do not need $1M or anywhere close to it. My father retired with about $400,000 in his 401K and they are doing quite well even with the market craziness.

2 - My parents are doing quite well because they are largely debt free. I don't doubt they will probably get a car loan at some point to get a new one, but not having a house payment is HUGE from what I can see. They could live on SS alone. It would be tight, but they could do it. The $400K makes things comfortable. I would not retire until I had a paid for home.

3 - They, in general, don't buy useless shit. My mother used to work in estate planning and there are a large number of people who buy whatever HSN has for sale that day. It is mind boggling.

I have to admit for myself, I'm in my 40's and have about $100K at this point. I don't need (and certainly don't expect) any of that $400K. Their house though .... I hope they hang onto it because I bet I will need the money from that sale. If they sell it, they sell it (it is theirs), but student loans and wage stagnation (though I make pretty good money) has taken a toll.

To answer R2, I'll be the first to admit I spend a LOT of money on going out in my 20's and 30's. My after work routine at the local gay bar (drinks and dinner) was probably $40-$50 a night X 4 nights a week. I don't regret going out as I met a lot of nice people, made friends, etc. but I could have done that going out twice a week instead of 4-5 times per week.

[quote] Median savings are like $100,000.

That sounds high for a median.

[quote] [R13], you are living the consequence of your actions. Everyone, you need to have a plan as, we all know, a lot of us will just have ourselves to count on (those who are single - which I am).

So, r18, if you are killed by a murderous trick who gets your $850k?

R27, thank you for sharing that heartwarming story of entitlement, poor judgment and karma.

[quote] I would not retire until I had a paid for home.

Thank you, Suze Orman. And what's your advice for those of us who rent?

Buy a house R33.

I can’t even claim a lottery investment plan as I don’t play.

My response was scary R33, but buy a place. Even if it a shitty, one bedroom, it will be worth something when you retire. I would be terrified to retire as a renter unless you have some kind of rent freeze/cap.

Many people retire and rent of course (especially when assisted living is involved), but they are paying that rent from the profit of their home sale.

Scary=Snarky

Owning your house free and clear isn't always the best solution. There are other expenses like property taxes, maintenance, etc.

For example, our house will most likely be paid off by the time we retire, but our property taxes are $18k a year, or $1,500 a month. A new roof is about $30k. New mechanicals like furnace, water heater, AC and appliances add up too.

I'd love to stay in our home but I don't think we can afford the extras. We'd be better off selling at a nice profit and buying something smaller with fewer expenses.

R29, the key to their success is having their house paid. Otherwise a higher amount is definitely advisable.

R31, my brother and sister for about 60% (9 and 13 years older). 40% for my financial power of attorney and medical power of attorney (both are younger than me and I trust them to look after me when I'm not able) - they are not aware they will get an inheritance and didn't ask.

I am glad you recognized that, r36. I will buy a house. Can I borrow $80,000 for the downpayment? And will you co-sign my mortgage loan?

R38, great point

But is this the time to buy? After years of struggle and coming back I was finally planning to look at condos this year... and now everything has changed. Including my profession, I'm still working but of course the industry where I work has taken a hit just like every other industry.

Do I fucking dare make a home purchase now, even a 1Br condo?

R42 depends where you are. In my region, home prices are reaching pre-recession levels. And, since many people can't get mortgages right now if they are temporarily laid off, savvy investors are snatching up properties and paying in cash. Assholes.

I think there will be a major correction this year, maybe before the election. Maybe not. But I'd wait.

R42, I think interest rates are going to be very reasonable for the foreseeable future. I would advise you make sure you are okay job wise and then buy. For me, I never bought and I always feared a potential lay off but even it that happens you can pull out equity on your home. Buy, but only when you feel the risk is as low as possible.

I'm planning to buy within the next couple of years. I live in Los Angeles and will retire in Palm Springs or Fort Lauderdale (either places are cheaper to buy then to rent in my opinion).

I can't imagine being in my late 50s and having zero in retirement. There comes a point where you have to start taking that part of your finances seriously.

[Quote]And don't start that bullshit about, "just get a roommate"

If your finances are that much of a mess, then yes, you cant afford to live alone.

I think about this a lot, probably too much. I’m 55 and in good health, and have some money in 401k accounts ($390k), $100k in cash (just now, strangely, from a windfall), a really nice co-op in midtown east nyc that I bought in 1999 and paid off. The maintenance on that co-op is $973/month but includes electricity, heat, taxes, white glove door staff and excellent security. I inherited a winterized cottage in New England, and it’s very beautiful. But I wring my hands about money a lot. I could (and might) “tuck into a ball” and live simply if I need to, and rent out the cottage in summer to cover its taxes and upkeep ($2800/annually present day). I could also sublet the co-op for $3k/month and pocket the float $1,700 (present day) after paying higher maintenance with sublet fees, and live in the cottage. If I needed to, I’d sell both properties, bump my investments, and rent a tiny place in a college town, near the town green, for access to lectures and a pool and bookstores. I’m working now, and make $230k/yr, and love my job. I’d like to continue another 10 years, but who knows anything with all the uncertainty in the world. My friends are a mixed bag. Some are broke and in bad health. Many, many people are broke and unhealthy right now, and I feel really bad for them. I am not sure we can count on Social Security. That trust may run out, or it could be means-tested and only cover the truly indigent by the time I plan to take it, at 70 or whenever it’s highest ($3,300 or so presently). I’m doing ok but can’t take my eye off the ball, or fuck around buying bits of tat that I don’t need, or piss through cash in bars and restaurants. Fuck that. I don’t want to worry about money when I’m old, and I am getting old fast. My parents are set, but could outlive their assets. I would rather have them with me than their money. They’re beautiful people, always loved me unconditionally. I’d do anything for them.

R46, I'm a very independent person and have thought about moving some place where I would have no friends. Are you alluding to that in your college town? I could easily do that but I'm feeling I am being forced to go where my friends are going to retire (either Palm Springs or Fort Lauderdale) as you can take care of each other as you age. I live in Los Angeles now but the thought of either place is very off putting - I hate the hot weather and would prefer to live in a oceanside town in my own cottage but I fear that is just a dream...

R47 Maybe not just a dream. You might head to Northern California or to a coastal midAtlantic region. I spend a lot of time on Zillow and have a standing search for 1 or 2 bedroom seafront homes. Some are monstrously expensive, but some others are not.

Palm Springs looks ok, but I’d struggle with the heat. Settling there depends on the quality of your friendships. I’d want to feel certain I could count on them as we age. My parents’ friends all settled near each other in Florida, and some of these friendships dissolved over time (the influence of partners and social competition among widows and widowers can turn elderly people into mean teenagers but with progeria). My work is intensely social and public, but I’m privately a loner. I can get by with my three closest friends (and four siblings) in contact by whatever technology comes along, but wouldn’t be too afraid to settle on my own in a place with good infrastructure (a good grocer, maybe library, places to swim and hike). We can also keep access to good media and send for special things on amazon or whatever replaces it over time. I’d try to put myself where I want to be (for me it’s nyc and New England coast as long as I can move between them). I’m going to keep small but nice places, located near things I like to do and see. Freedom is a bigger deal to me, at least that’s how I see it at 55. I might change. I basically want to be a nice old man who wears neat clothing and smells nice, definitely have a garden, and cook good food.

When the market went down in the 2008/2009 I cashed out my investments. I was scared. I took that money and paid off my house and my office building (4230 sq ft building) value at $620,000. Tenant rents 2655 sq ft and my business have the balance. When you pay off mortgages you free up so much money. I was lucky I didn't squander any of the money. I ended up at 66 with a building generating $50+ annually (less expenses) and I have $1.47 million on IRA's and mutual funds and $30,000 annually in social security which I think I can live on. I still have my business which nets around $300,000 a year. I am a big proponent on paying down debt. It allows you to live on less income. Figuring all this is tough considering your circumstances.

I’m 50 and want to start a retirement fund but I am now unemployed because of this coronavirus. I may be called back to my job but that’s months away or maybe my job is not coming back at all. I have 50k in savings. This was the start of my retirement fund but now I’m nervous I may need it to cover me while I’m unemployed after unemployment runs out. What would be a good way to start? How much should I put into retirement fund? My expenses are around 2k a month. Just don’t wanna get caught months down the road with no job and no more savings. Any ideas?

Thanks R48. I'm 58 and would like to work til my mid 60's so lots could change in the meantime. I want to make the best decision for me and want to be happy in my later years. I've made some sacrifices so hopefully I will be in the best possible position and want to be true to me. I wish you well in your journey too!

R50, keep your expenses down and save/investment as much money as you can. A co-worker once told me that equities are the best bet to make the most money; however, I would stick to blue chips ones as they are the most secure - I've done well. Know that you are in for the long run and don't get nervous with fluctuation in the market. I would recommend buying $25K now since prices are down and then as you get more comfortable buy more. Google search best growth stocks and do some research. I would say Fiserv, MicroSoft, PayPal are all safe and good investments. Hope that helps and good luck.

Also, if anyone has any other suggestions, I would like to hear too.

R52 thanks for your input. How do I start? Do I see a broker? Do I start my own E*TRADE account? Do I start a Vanguard index fund? What if all of a sudden I need money badly in five years? Will there be a penalty? Capital gains taxes? I have so many questions.

R53, I'll respond tomorrow with my thoughts. Happy to help

Hell, you can't even sell ass at 58. You gonna be on the street digging in dumpsters.

R52 I wish I bought Clorox stock long ago.

Bitcoin!

[quote] I’m working now, and make $230k/yr, and love my job.

B*tch...why are you in this thread?!!! Next!!!

During my working life, I put 10% into a 401k from the first day I was eligible (when I turned 25). When I retired at 55, I had over $2M in my 401k. Waiting until 58 to start is just stupid. You fucked yourself 35 years ago. Shoot yourself.

So everybody should send wretchedly poorer neighbors to live with the Duchess “I Don’t Have the Warmth or Depth Of A Cunt” Snotty of R59.

Many people have been struggling to make it month to month so investing from their savings into a 401K, and IRA or even a savings account is difficult. I didn't start saving with 401K until my late 30s. Now that I'm 60 I will have a reasonable nest egg, but probably not enough to last me if I live beyond my mid 80s.

R59 how much did your employer kick in your 401(k)?

Look, if you're not going to be following business news, tracking companies and the stock market, invest in low cost index funds. Google Bogleheads and index funds. Index funds allow you to diversify even if you are only starting with a small stash. Putting a large percentage of your precious savings on a handful of companies is really risky. Warren Buffet can afford to throw 100 million on Delta and it's a rounding error for him. If you have 50K and invest 10K each in 5 separate companies and 2 of those companies tank, how would you feel? It's not a rounding error for you.

Bitch, you got work to do until you’re 80!

[quote]Median savings are like $100,000.

[quote]That sounds high for a median.

2015, but median savings by age.

$117,000 for those in their 50s.

I'm 50. Made an unfortunate decision about a move/commuting in my early 30s that put me in debt (though I don't regret it, I had years of loving where I lived and all the social and entertainment options it afforded me) and lost all progress/dug myself deeper when my industry imploded in 2009. I just this month finally paid off the last of my credit card debt and can start saving in earnest for a down payment on a house. Luckily I'm single and want a small space, something like a Craftsman bungalow, which I'll be able to pay off before retirement.

I'm assuming that Social Security will be gutted and picked clean by the next Republican administration or two before I hit retirement age, so I'm not counting on that income at all. I wish I'd put a higher percentage in my 401k earlier on, but I've tried to strike a reasonable balance between retirement saving and having a decent quality of life in the present. I do enjoy my work, so remaining on the job as long as my health and eyesight hold up isn't a daunting prospect like it seems to be to lots of folks who hate showing up for work each day.

I'm always pleased to see these threads on retirement insecurity start, people who are getting older expressing heartfelt concerns about long-term standard of living. Inevitably there will be the 'I have millions in cash, stocks and property, a weekend home, make $250,000 per year and I love my job!' post. 'But I still worry about money, so sometimes I skip dessert when I eat out'.

Not everyone makes six figures. And if you don't want to live in bigoted Trumpland, then you have to pay through the nose to live in a liberal city. If you don't start off rich, it's hard to get there. I know it's the American Dream to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and build a fortune from nothing, but the odds are against us. We can't all do it. It takes a combination of determination and luck.

[quote] our property taxes are $18k a year

Why would you live a place/location where you pay $18k in property taxes? That’s nuts. I live in a well-to-do town in a three story townhouse and I pay $1500 a year.

"You might head to Northern California or to a coastal midAtlantic region. I spend a lot of time on Zillow and have a standing search for 1 or 2 bedroom seafront homes. Some are monstrously expensive, but some others are not. "

FYI in Northern California all the affordable seaside houses are in small coastal towns that are hours of winding road away from anything resembling a city, and which lack the kind of transport and medical services that seniors need. And your neighbors will be a mix of Deplorables, old hippies, drifters, and Republican retirees who will invite you over for drinks and fascism.

Check out life in any small town VERY carefully before you buy.

Someone I know has spent most of his adult life working off the books, never saving during the periods of prosperity, and reporting so little income that he'll be unable to collect enough Social Security to live on in old age. He's turned down opportunities to train for legit careers, and is basically counting on his partner to support him in his old age. The partner is actually fed up and would love to get out, but can't bring himself to end the relationship and see someone once beloved out on the street in his old age.

Having seen years of this at close hand, I don't understand it. How can a person who is intelligent and capable in so many ways never make the leap to taking the future seriously?

When I was in my teens and twenties, I was very good about working and saving. I also was usually working 1 1/2 jobs. I opened an IRA account, as well as some mutual funds with only a little money, but haven't looked at them in ages, nor have I added anything. I was a hard-worker, but, with no real plan. I just never figured things out. At a certain point, I just got tired, I think, from spinning my wheels, and started drifting in my 30s. Still working, but just kind of sleepwalking.

I changed careers mid-life (never having settled on one). I'm a nurse now, age 46. However, I've had a few professional setbacks early on (everything that could have gone wrong, seems to have), which I'm trying to sort through. I also struggle with depression/mental health, which affects the quality of my life a small (sometimes large) degree.

I always assumed--if able--that I would work until my early-to-mid 70s, at least part-time. I'm not sure I'd take to retiring. I'm not a home-owner. I only have a little saved up. I'm living on unemployment right now. I live frugally. I've never been in a relationship.

I still don't have a plan, unfortunately. There are just fundamental things about me mentally that are getting in my way. Therapy and medication haven't helped. I have parents who saved and live well. I'm not sure how well I'll be taken care of when they go. They have helped me in the past, but I try to look to them as little as possible. I'm incredibly fortunate I have them in my life and they love me.

But, I really want to figure out things. I'm not sure why it has to be so challenging. I know I'm not getting younger, and time is precious.

I empathise with a lot of people in this thread who are on hard times, including the OP.

For you Mr 58, it's not too late. As mentioned above, start that 401k to the max, at least up to the point your company matches. Keep yourself healthy and vibrant, work till 70 and then start your SSA: you get like 8% interest each year past your actual retirement SSA, so at 70 you'll probably get over 3K per month. I could live on that. Fortunately, my partner waited to collect his SSA till his retirement age, and could work and earn his salary and collect SSA with no penalty. His company let him and many go at the beginning of the pandemic, so he's been collecting unemployment plus the $600 kick. Almost 2 months, and he just transferred $6000 from his unemployment into his checking account. Recently his old job, who paid him a severance, called to offer him a job. Ironic. I wanted him to milk unemployment a while longer, but the company could report a job offer refused, and stop unemployment. He'd rather work anyway. So back to working, getting a salary, collecting SSA. Still a win win. Putting everything in the bank. He has a moderate 401k. I have a traditional pension, please my SSA when I get to start it in 5 and 3/4 years, we will be alright.

I’ve made a deal with the devil, and work in sales in a largely toxic industry that has been in the news the last week or so. It has been lucrative (not hedge fund lucrative, but lucrative nonetheless). I’ve hated my job for the most part but I do it with an eye toward retirement. Even doing all the right things, it’s depressing to talk to my FA and how much more I have to save and work to not have to dial it back in retirement. Yes, I live in an expensive state but it is disheartening. I don’t understand how people who don’t work in careers that involve sizable bonuses or commissions get ahead. The system feels rigged and it just sucks.

[quote]Why didn't you tuck a few dollars into a saving or investment account? Perhaps you didn't save because of unforeseen medical expenses, boyfriend or partner scammed you, or you made a bad investment.

We've tucked a few dollars away but it won't be enough, and it's largely because we've had to deal with my medical expenses and inability to work full time. We also lost quite a bit in 2008, thanks to a sketchy investment banker at a place that rhymes with Nedwurd Bones. Our finances never really recovered since the 2008 crash so I don't hold out hope that we'll have much retirement to live on. It's worrying but also there's honestly nothing we can do about it.

A younger coworker recently shared at a Zoom happy hour that the pandemic has changed her view on her finances. She said that she lived paycheck to paycheck before, and saw no alternative. Yet, with nowhere to spend money, she found that she actually could put away money.

Personally, I earned my way past bad spending habits. I wish I had more discipline before. I get a thrill from saving and investing, as long as I also get to buy a few wants in addition to my needs. I am not where I should be, but am catching up fast.

[quote]But, I really want to figure out things. I'm not sure why it has to be so challenging. I know I'm not getting younger, and time is precious.

When I was about 39 I felt exactly this way and pushed to figure myself out, get established, but it all went haywire with illness followed by injury. I'm now 48, a little older than you, and feel like pushing myself to figure it all out actually did more harm than good. Maybe take some time to decide if you're really that unhappy with what you have and where you are now, and if there are some smaller changes you could make that wouldn't put so much pressure on you. Just a suggestion, I don't mean to say you're doing anything wrong, just wanted to add my own two cents.

I have invested wisely and early. But I am still afraid to be a broke pensioner. A month ago I was given a diagnose which means I have a 50% chance of becoming old. If I die before my mother she will inherent my savings and she will be living a good life. Which I am totally fine with. If my mom dies before me my savings will go to my other family members, which I am not too keen on. My sister raised her two daughters like the Kardashians and I know they will spend my hard earned money on stupid princess shit.

I worked a clerical position but worked for an ESOP company that rewarded years of service with stock. So, on a piss poor salary I retired after 25 years with nearly $1 million in stock that is now in an IRA. But more than a third of that is eaten up from a divorce settlement(of the gay variety). but I am at peace now as being single and 63 yrs old, my spending is going WAY down. I have no mortgage ,own outright in Palm Springs and inherited 1/3 of a cottage on Lake Michigan. But it was only as stroke of luck I ended up as I did, as my own savings thru company 401k was just under $100,000 after 25 years due to low salary.

even if you cant afford to , contribute as much as you can to 401K early on in life. It will pay off

Why do threads like this always bring out poster like R46 and R49, bragging about their millionaire status?

I have about 300k in various 401ks and 60k in savings. I'm 48 and my career is winding down. I'm a copywriter working on the client side and my contract is up in November. After that, who the fuck knows. Luckily I have a partner and I get all my insurance through him. He also has two sizable public sector pensions coming to him in about 15 years. But I need to figure shit out. Nurse? Radiation technician? Shit retail? *gulp* Real estate?

The options are limitless!

I struggle with this. My partner has refused to be serious about saving for retirement for 25 years. It’s our only fight. He’s now 57 and has about $45,000 in 401k - and $10k in credit card debt. I consider it a financial disaster - but he has so many friends who live paycheck to paycheck, he considers himself doing ok. He says he will work until he drops - and when I tell him that probably won’t be an option, he calls it negative thinking. Retirement saving requires fear and negative thinking I guess.

We have never merged finances and each pay our own way. But I’m looking at retirement where he will have no money - which puts the pressure on me. However, the reality is one of us - probably me - is likely to die before 72. And when one of us is on our deathbed, 401k will be irrelevant. So I live now and love him while we’re here. Money is important but so is life.

R78, Do you have any favorite cousins or friends that would be more deserving of your money? I would not want to leave any money for anyone that did not appreciate it.

Retired at 66. Husband semi retired at 63, did side hustles and lived off savings. I kept working to carry the health insurance before we were Medicare eligible. Condo is paid for, living well of SSI and income from IRA. I also started doing side hustles to keep busy after I retired. The side hustles went down the drain with Rona. I don’t think I’ll go back to the side hustles (if they ever resume). I didn’t do it for the money, but rather to keep busy. I’ve found plenty to keep me busy without part time work.

I don't know what's wrong with one of my buddies but he's a procrastinator. He's close to 50 and still doesn't have a Roth IRA. His job doesn't offer IRA etc. I've been telling him for over 10 years to get one. He told me he only has 100k in savings and will be working until he dies.

I wouldn't rely on people dying and leaving you money. My inheritance was stolen from me by my own mother.

Where would you guys put 150K if you had it? real estate or stock market?

I wonder about the jobs that many of are banking on doing in our 60's and 70's--will AI take over and there will be no jobs to fight over. I work in a non-technical role for a tech company and was selected to be laid off. My manager fought it and went to various upper management executives with justification on why I should stay. One of the executives asked why they couldn't just have AI do my job. Luckily, I have expertise in a very niche non-technical field and management reversed its decision. But give it a few years and I'm sure AI will be doing most of my work. My expertise won't be needed because my counter-parts' jobs will also be done by AI. My institutional knowledge and relationships/contacts won't matter.

R53, I have most of my portfolio with Fidelity. If you have a 401K or IRA, you might want to keep it there. The others would work as well but you want to be conscious of fees associated with any account. If you keep the stock for over a year and need to sell. the earnings would be taxed as ordinary income - google what your state has for taxes on stock earnings for taxes. You can start with a Vandguard Index fund but growth stocks are going to make the most money for you. However, remember you have no dividends.

WHAT I WOULD REALLY RECOMMEND is if your income isn't too high over $137K, I would suggest you open a ROTH IRA too as any earning on those investments are tax free. Depending on your age, it could be up to $7,000 per year. I would max out the ROTH amount each year and then the remainder in an IRA (if you can) or just buy stocks (as many as you can afford). BUT IT IS CRITICAL THAT YOU GET INTO A ROTH.

Hope that helps and by no means am I an expert so everyone please help out if you have additional information. I really like to see us come together as a community and help each other.

R25, in other words, don't live life.

We are supposed to work to live not live to work and save.

R86, you're going to get arguments from both sides. I'm a lifelong renter and think of paying for shelter, either in rent or mortgage as an expense. Real estate is an investment if you are earning from it--renting it to others. If you're living in your house, it's a cost of living. I don't think renting or owning IN GENERAL is better than the other financially. I think of buying as a lifestyle choice--you want to own your place and do with it as you please, you want a house in the suburb for your kids to grow up in, etc. I rent an apartment in a city center because I value location more than having a large single family home (among other reasons).

Google renting versus buying. It's not as simple as renting is throwing your money away. Renting is better or just as good as owning financially if you save and invest the cost difference from renting to owning.

It's called living within your means r89. We all have to do it.

The town I live in has a large transient population of university students and military personnel, and owning is much cheaper than renting. My mortgage is $700/month while the house next door, smaller than mine, rents for $1000/month with only water and trash paid. I literally cannot afford to rent.

No, R91, he's talking about spending money you actually have on what was called "useless shit." He wasn't talking about going into debt for it.

R53, to show you the importance of a ROTH and how it can be beneficial, I purchased about $30K in Fiserv in 2008 and have made about $200,000. If that purchase would have been in a ROTH, i wouldn't of had to pay taxes. When doing a ROTH, make sure you find a good growth stock and you should be good.

Thanks R93, you got me

But I was also thinking about enjoying experiences. For instance spending holidays with friends in warm countries without having to splurge, meeting new people and going to lovely little cafes for great conversation, learning to cook good food, walks in the park, etc...In short enjoying life, which doesn't involve crass consumerism R91

The idea of owning a house in retirement and sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars in home equity seems irrational - unless you have plenty of cash. My home = my retirement savings. I plan to sell at 64/65 and live off that value for 15+ years. The rent where I’m moving is only slightly more than the taxes and maintenance on the house I own now.

R90 to your point, I'm in rent control and that has added to my investment portfolio as I have a cheaper expense with ith.

If you aren't saving any money for retirement r83, that is not money you have.

Disposable income is the money you have left over after you put some into retirement.

R93* of course

R97, yes, and as long as the building is habitable, you should not move. Having a low housing cost is key because it's usually by far the largest expense that we have. My rent is 1,500. For my income level, I could rent 2,500 one bedroom apartments in my neighborhood in newer and more luxurious buildings. But I don't NEED to do it. I still have access to the same 95 walk score, shops, restaurants and train station as renters in more expensive buildings. And I save and invest the $1,000 difference every month.

I think you need to make it a priority, I live in the heart of WeHo and the buidling/my apartment are great although the noise from neighbors can be bothersome at times. I pay $1,500 too and have been here for 25 years. You have to make savings a priority and focus on a plan that will provide the best return. Like you, I am able to save a large chuck every month as I keep my expenses down. Total cost/total savings ratio is 1/3 cost to 2/3 savings.

R88 do I open a Roth on my own? Who do I see about opening a Roth? How do I find a good growth stock?

Say something happens & I need $ five or 10 years down the line, can I take money out of the Roth or is there a penalty? How long do you have to keep it in a Roth? What are the tax advantages of a Roth? Thank you for taking the time to answer me.

Can you still open Roth IRA for 2019? I know it's already 2020 but aren't you supposed to be able to open one until tax deadline for previous year?

R102, if you put 2000 into your Roth IRA, and it grows to 3000. No penalties if you take out up to 2000. If you take out more than 2000, then there will be penalty. That's what I remember from years ago, not sure if they changed it.

R102

You may withdraw your contributions to a Roth IRA penalty-free at any time for any reason, but you'll be penalized for withdrawing any investment earnings before age 59 ½, unless it's for a qualifying reason.

You can open or contribute to a ROTH until April 15th of the following year. You can't contribute for 2019 but can contribute for 2020 until April 15, 2021.

For stocks, you might want to look at the ones I previously offered or just do a google search on best growth stocks or blue chip growth stocks. Make sure to take some time to do some research and look at the prior history in earnings. For the most part, you should see a steady incline for growth, albeit not for this year.

You need to set up a ROTH with a financial institution. I have mine with Fidelity. With Fidelity you can get an IRA and buy stocks too - similar to other ones.

Since you are paying after taxes (money that already has taxes paid) you won't be responsible for any taxes on earnings you make. So, say you buy some stocks for a total of $25K and over the next 10 years it goes to $100K - you don't need to pay taxes on any other the earnings.

Also note that with any investment there is risk so be aware of that and don't get nervous when the stock market dives - that's a good thing too as you can buy stock at a cheaper rate and more than likely a quicker incline when the market returns.

"Which I am totally fine with. If my mom dies before me my savings will go to my other family members, which I am not too keen on. My sister raised her two daughters like the Kardashians and I know they will spend my hard earned money on stupid princess shit. "

Well change your will then, R78! Leave your sister a generous bequest, enough to compensate her for being your executor, and giving your money to specific charities and not her spoiled daughters.

R105, this year it's July 15 due to the virus.

IRS Notice 2020-18 Relief for Taxpayers extended the 2019 federal income tax filing, payment, and IRA contribution deadline from April 15 to July 15, 2020.

R107, thanks for the correction!

I think Roth IRAs are overrated - people get so obsessive about them when they aren’t necessarily better than standard IRAs or 401ks for many of us.

I live in an obscenely high tax area and make good money - so I’m in high tax brackets for federal, state and local taxes. I also invest extremely conservatively.

When I retire, I’m moving to a no tax state/ city - and my income will be way lower which means a much lower Federal tax bracket. So I’m better off not getting taxed now - which is what Roth does - but when I retire.

R100 That’s so smart. To me, an inexpensive rental presents freedom.

R110, the downside is that I really want a dog and my building doesn't allow them. I'll have to make a lifestyle choice one of these days and pay for it.

Save a little, regardless of what else you do

Cut back on everything else to get rid of any debt -

THEN Save a lot.

You’ll make it

The whole point of this thread is we all started too late. I think the realistic solution has to focus on figuring out how to live on $25-$30k/year - no matter what we save. It’s doable. I know a lot of retirees living on SS - not ideal maybe but you can get by. Living in a very cheap place is key. And as you get old, a lot of the things that costs money are less important.

As a caregiver, I’ve worked with the smug shits who budgeted for restaurant lunches into their 80s.

The truth is people stop pretending to give a shit about you once you retire. You’re in the way or require attention. Turning you into a consumer limits social interaction and getting you to move out to zero-culture low-cost-of-living shitholes means there is more room for the living.

You can graduate from working to gaseously waiting for death too easily. And you started off as a cunt. Don’t be so eager.

The wealthy areas of LA are filled with 90 year olds who exercised obsessively and saved tons for retirement to live into a old age - and are now being wheeled to the occasional doctors appointment by paid nurses who are the only people who care about them. Save - but don’t make saving for old age the point of life. Those 65 years are your life.

I don’t think I’ll be alive much past 65 so whatever happens after that fuck it!

There are days when I hope I’m just the figment of some autistic kid’s imagination and he’s a sick little fuck.

R84, what were your side huddles? Just turned 60 and the sole breadwinner for my partner, 67, and myself. I freelance and still work but it’s a young person’s world out there in my mind of work. Thought I’d try to keep it going until I’m 63, then live off savings and some side jobs, so curious what you were doing.

[R84], what were your side huddles?

R84 may it clear that he and his partner "hustle", not huddle. And it's impressive for guys in their 60's do be able to still attract johns.

I retired at 58 (almost 10 years ago) and in retrospect I could've (and should've) done it earlier. I was lucky enough to have an excellent pension, and a substantial supplemental retirement account (but no Social Security.)

So sorry OP that you have to take care of a pension yourself. It feels unfair. You’ve worked for years. Hope you can save something to retire in a matter of years.

Can we hear a little less humblebragging from the guys who have it made? That doesn't help the rest of us!

After losing everything in my midlife, I've saved about $500K total including my 401K, and hope to work full-time for another ten years. But I live in an area where the median home price is like $700K, if you don't want to live on a block of methheads and pit bulls! Do I have any options other than taking my savings and moving to another state when I retire? Buy a studio condo somewhere sort of acceptable?

R122 you are actually headed to be better of than some of the humblebraggers, truthfully

Except that I don't own a home, R123, don't have a lot of time to buy, and can't afford one where I'd like to live.

But I'm holding off for now, until I see whether the coronavirus and riots will actually kill me, or cause some new financial disaster.

R122, so you rent, it's not the end of the world. If you have 500K and plan to work for 10 more years, you'll likely have enough to keep a roof over your head. Just don't expect it to be an apartment facing Central Park.

[quote] don't have a lot of time to buy

What does that mean?

R126 I assume he meant not enough time to buy and pay off before retirement?

I don't have what I need and I'm 58. I was never in a position to own property, a big missing link. I moved around a few countries, too. It's not going to be cat food but it's not going to be my current lifestyle, either.

Let's just say that I got fucked over by my ex who loved to gamble in cardrooms, at casinos and in the stock market. If he could gamble, he did, especially when we could least afford it. His new partner is a fat pig - but wealthy - opposite of me. And of course, the fucker is broke now and has to take orders from the fat pig. Lol.

I left San Francisco when I retired and moved to East Jesusville. I am stunned just how cheap it all can be. My mortgage is 460 a month. That is less than one third of my rent in SF. I never realized life could be so inexpensive. I do miss the coast some but prefer the ability to live fairly well on little money.

I'm beginning my 7th year of retirement. What surprised me the most was how little I needed to live on. All my hobbies are very low cost - hiking, backpacking, bike riding, mushroom hunting, backyard bbqs. Our library system is excellent and Amazon Prime and Netflix are cheap, we don't have cable.

R130 where is East Jesusville?

Capital of FLyoverstan

Honestly OP you should just start living frugally now. Literally cut out/down almost all discretionary spending.

Might as well get yourself used to what your life will look like in the future. Not trying to be negative or judgmental, just realistic.

Better shock now than later.

Save what you can, plan to work until at least 67.

An interesting read ...

The guy at the original link was unbelievable. He made a huge amount of money yearly, but worried about retiring.

i think i might have it worse then anyone else here? 55 soon to be 56, have only about 7, 500 dollars to my name, no job, havent' worked in over 3 years and even then rarely for like 10 years because i've been taking care of my elderly parents and their pet for years now without ANY help from my many siblings (hey, they come over once a month to bring food over and stay a couple of hours what more do you want them to do??!!), no job, no money, my own place, friends, love, sex, etc... and my married brothers and sisters wonder why i'm not happy and what's wrong???!...are they MONUMENTALLY that stupid and clueless or that self absorbed selfish?...

R137, my sympathies. Because I've seen it happen many times, but nobody ever talks about the fact that caring for elderly parents can be a FINANCIAL DEATHTRAP. Yes, carers can go for years without income, and I've seen them suffer all the indignities of being financially dependent, and it's all made worse by the unspoken parameters of the "Theraputic Relationship". In the therapeutic relationship, the carer does not express their own needs and the person who is cared for does not think about the carer's needs, the entire focus of the relationship is on getting the person who is cared for better.

All I can suggest is violating the bounds of the therapeutic relationship, and talking about money with your parents and siblings. Tell them that you either need to work and get a sibling to cover for you if they can't be left alone, be paid out of a family fund that needs to be set up NOW, or if there are assets, get everything in the will as that's the only way you'll ever be able to retire yourself. Your siblings will of course fight you on this, because being able to take advantage of your free labor is such a huge win-win for them.

Maybe ask your parents to leave you a big chunk of their estate instead of diving up equally among your siblings? For example, you get, 50% and they get split the rest. or talk to your siblings that you're not working, you need money, they chip in a few hundred dollars a month to you as payment? it would be cheaper than hiring a stranger or sending your folks to nursing homes etc.

good luck to you.

57, with less than $10k saved. Own a home in a southern California coastal city, but owe $300k on it due to using equity to take care of my parents through their final illnesses. Like some others, I frittered away my income on travel and fun -which I really don't regret. The one thing I seem to have done right is to build a career in a field that still has a very good pension. I plan to retire in four more years, after 40 years on the job. My pension will be 86% of my current pay. That should be fine if I sell my (large) home, pay off debt, and buy a small place in a local retirement community. I won't be wealthy, but I should be able to travel a couple of times a year (assuming the world every reopens). I won't be eligible for Social Security, but my retirement plan gives me medical benefits until I reach Medicare age. I have no one to leave anything to, so at some point I may get a reverse mortgage on the retirement home to supplement my travel income.

A lot of this thread is silly humble bragging and boilerplate Suze Orman drivel.

Maybe the solutions will have to be political. Obviously the workplace, stock market and real estate market has not been a boon to very many people approaching retirement age. For a typical 55 year old, there have been at least 3 recessions since they joined the workforce. Everything cost more than it did for previous generations, but they usually earned less money than those generations. They did not have pensions. They may have had jobs with no or grossly inadequate pre-Obamacare health insurance. If you are gay, you probably dealt with some employment discrimination that affected your prospects. Now you are in your 50s and you are definitely experiencing workplace age discrimination in favor of younger people.

R137, you should be logging your hours and efforts in a notebook. Also log your sibs' efforts, if any. When your elderly parents are deceased, you will bill the estate in probate court for your time and effort. You should also demand a written caregiving agreement from your parents now.

There may be a need to increase social security payments, and/or expand housing options for low income seniors.

R138 and R139... thank you very much for your thoughts and advice! it's a lonely endeavor, my parents thank me, but i don't think they TRULY TRULY GET my situation, that is why i have to tell complete strangers about my situation, if i told anyone the WHOLE story they wouldn't believe it! even the stuff i do say i get "are you the oldest child?" "are you the only child?" and the answer to both is nope!.....

i'm just the single man, while they all have husbands and wives and houses and jobs, so oh well, it sucks to be you!... i think some actually think i HAVE to live with OUR parents (and take care of their elderly dog too 24/7) because i CAN'T get a job, and so i HAVE to live with them, and so i might as well do everything or that i REALLY DON"T WANT a job, so once again i HAVE to live there and since i do i might as well do everything!..i think some of them think, i throw the trash, get the mail and answer a few phone calls and the rest of the day every day i sit around watching tv! also i think they think. because well "you are living there for free after all!"... and mom and dad ARE paying you too! yeah, how much utilities am i using each month? what 50 dollars or so?! and what they pay me a month? is less then what i would make a week if i was actually working!... and newsflash to my siblings! i have bills too! i have a school loan that i haven't made a payment on in years and years! (they of course don't because i'm the only one of them who went to college!).....

i went to college, have worked more jobs then ALL OF THEM COMBINED, and yet i'm the one who has the least and no life! i haven't had a vacation ANYWHERE in over 12 years! "oh, you should take a vacation then!' uh, i have no money to do so, is anyone any of you going to move in the house for the next 2 weeks or so 24/7? and take care of the elderly dog too!" i don't think so! besides, i would be back in the same situation after 2 weeks anyway... it would only be a temporary fix...

i could get a job tomorrow, i could say to my family "hey, i got a new job it's in alaska, i'm moving next week, good luck to you mom and dad and the dog, oh well!" but i can't!....

in regards to the will, everything is suppose to be split up between all of us equally, which of course is a MONUMENTAL JOKE! I do plan on consulting a lawyer about advice, basically on for example,my parents put me on their checking account since i'm the one who pays the bills and writes out the checks and takes care of the finances, once they both pass away technically that money is ALL MINE. i need to find out though if it's not part of the will or can be contested by my siblings.. if anything was fair they really don't deserve anything, but i don't think my elderly dementia parents will change their will for that! trust me, they'll still be getting a good junk of money anyway.....

R142, you've posted before about your situation and it sucks. I truly feel badly for you. At some point though, if you have made your case and it's fallen on deaf ears--the onus is on you to improve your life. Make your case once more--so there's no ambiguity. If nothing changes, then you need to do something about financial situation and/or career.

The other option is have nothing when you hit 60-65. That opens up the world of low income senior assistance. I posted previously on how I got my mom HUD housing. Don't blame the player playing the game--it sucks that lower income folks often do not qualify for anything. But if you're below poverty level, there's much out there to gain. I told my mom to retire and that meant she only had Social Security for income--it was low enough for her to qualify for housing assistance and Medicaid.

I agree with getting money from your parents, and I feel it should start now. $400 a week, plus full control of whatever estate they leave. Figure out that would be had you gotten paid from the first day you walked in their door. Tell all the relatives that this is what you're doing and if they don't want you to inherit everything at the end, then they need to start paying you out of their own pockets right now. When I realized my brother and sister-in-law had no intention of even chipping in to buy us dinner when I was taking care of my mother, I started taking all of her social security income, and I used her credit card to pay for every second meal when we went out. I missed the first two years when I had to give up my job to take care of her thinking that my brother was going to make it all right, but the realization quickly settled in with me that that would never happen. Actually your worth would probably be much more than $400 a week. Good luck.

A friend does live-in senior care, she charges $1000 a week, with time off. That's considered low for the field. If there are family assets, you should be getting at least that much with back pay, the alternative is paying more to strangers or full-time nursing home care, which is far more expensive. And if not now, it comes out of the estate, and that's final.

R142 etc., you are going to have to force this issue, as your family benefits so much from getting unpaid labor out of you that they're not going to life a finger to change the situation.

THANKS AGAIN FOR EVERYONE'S POSITIVE COMMENTS... in my family? no one will change their lives for me, but they had no problem changing my life FOR YEARS!....

i've been trying to find a work from home job that pays decent, but seemingly those are hard to impossible to come by.. either they are a) scams b) pay 10 bucks a hour or c) i'm not qualified for or d) they'll let you work from home after you've been working there for 10 years or more!

i've been thinking about a number of financial plans: in that either A) i have my parents start paying me more EACH WEEK like the above poster R144 stated in his number of 400 dollars each week, right now they only pay me 600 dollars a month! until things change OR i do get a work from home job that pays nothing and that i can't really live off of but my parents still pay me the 600 dollars a month to cover most of my rent which is the hugest expense. THEY might disagree with still paying me what they are currently paying me when i don't live there anymore, however, i can counter with, that i'm still having to take the dog and take care of it, i'm still working a low paying work from home job that is both not what i want to do and is low paying and i'll still be the one coming over to cut the grass, pay the bills, go grocery shopping for them and so on.

both situations i would have until the dog passes away (perhaps a year or so from now as he is 13 and the life expectancy is only 14 to 15 years old and then my siblings without having to take care of a dog too would be having to take care of our parents 24/7 with all of them on a rotating schedule...

not sure if either plan they'll agree to or which plan makes more sense... if they did the payments of 400 a week at 4 weeks a month they would have to take money out of their savings, each month which i don't think they would like, if they do the still pay me 600 that pays for most of my rent and i can move out and get my own place they could still do this without any harm to savings since they would pay me out of their checking account which is what they do now....

i've also thought for a long time now, "why aren't my siblings paying me instead of our parents? because you know i am taking care of OUR parents after all!" or at least they could pay me something alongside my parents! i'm only talking like 50 dollars a month from each of them! long ago, i once raised this to one of my sister's and her answer was "well, in these kind of situations, it's usually the parents that pay for their adult child as a caregiver"? that may well be, but why can't they pitch in and pay me as well! are they that self absorbed or too poor to give me only 50 dollars a month? really? REALLY?...

comments and suggestions everyone please! thanks in advance!..

[quote] Own a home in a southern California coastal city, but owe $300k on it due to using equity to take care of my parents through their final illnesses.

Well, r140, based on your vague description that home could be worth anywhere from $400k to $4mil. What is its value? And are you single?

lol -Single, [R147]. And the house is valued around $690k. Needs a new roof.

OP, any decisions made?

R135, I stopped reading your article after this line:

[quote] They also recognize that, as cis, white men, they have a privilege that can translate into helping other LGBTQ+ people