Oops: Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes
Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.
Tegnell is the brains behind Sweden’s controversial approach to fighting the virus, and the government of Stefan Lofven has deferred to the epidemiologist in its official response to the pandemic. Gatherings of more than 50 people continue to be banned, but throughout the crisis Swedes have been able to visit restaurants, go shopping, attend gyms and send children under 16 to school.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||Last Monday at 10:37 PM|
This is good news because at least it stops people from saying we should’ve done nothing.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||06/03/2020|
One of the most bizarre covid-related moments of the past few weeks, was when the WHO praised Sweden's pandemic strategy, despite the double fact that it went against WHO's recommendations and that Sweden's death rate was already worse than that of its neighbors.
What were they thinking? were they just playing politics?
|by Anonymous||reply 2||06/03/2020|
[quote] If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done...
WTF?? Public Health has dealt with pandemics and knows how to deal with them. This isn't some unknown. Government usually have plans for dealing with this exact situation.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||06/03/2020|
But I thought Sweden was "winning" (as that other thread from some time ago claimed)...
|by Anonymous||reply 4||06/03/2020|
A large group of scientists in Sweden opposed his strategy from the beginning. I've been following a You Tube channel of a guy named Marcus Carlsson, who is a mathematician at Lund University because I have friends in Stockholm and and in rural southern Sweden. They thought this guy was totally, totally wrong and basically willing to "let Grandma die" to keep the economy open. Many more old people in nursing homes died in Sweden than should have opened. Meanwhile, Sweden had their PR machine going in the US and at WHO saying how great a model they were. Carlsson's puts out a video in Swedish and another in English on the same subject (some of the Swedish ones are not duplicated though). Check him out, especially his first one.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||06/03/2020|
r5 again: By "this guy" I mean Anders Tegnell, the health minister who was in charge of the Swedish policy. Norway had a strict and early lockdown and maybe a 10th of the cases and very few deaths and have already re-opened their economy. Tegnell was basically gambling with people's lives to show how cool he was and how great Swedes were that they didn't need basic public health rules like everywhere else in the world.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||06/03/2020|
How’s their economy doing? Probably not much better than the rest of Europe. Don’t get me wrong, this experiment proves they were foolish.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||06/03/2020|
[quote]potential for improvement.
That’s putting it mildly, Mr. Noah Shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||06/03/2020|
And nothing will happen to him. It’s easier for a black man to hail a cab in Bay Ridge than to get fired from a job in Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||06/03/2020|
Oh, he ain’t gettin a cab in Bay Ridge, let me tell...oh, I see. Never mind.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||06/03/2020|
Well, the pretty, blonde affluent Swedes are spending the next 3-4 months at their summer homes on the islands, leaving the darks and poors behind in their crowded tower blocks on the edges of Malmo, Stockholm, and Gothernburg. Only they will get sick and die.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||06/03/2020|
It wasn't the WHO r2, but one WHO doctor who was being asked about Sweden in a critical way and in typical WHO manner he did not want to offend a WHO country (think of how much WHO representatives have gone out of their way not to offend China) so just gave some garbled answer that has been misinterpreted.
He did not in fact praise Sweden's strategy, he said that Sweden's strategy might be a model for other countries post-lockdown. In other words, he wasn't praising the idea of not having a lockdown but just coming up with a platitude about how some of what Sweden is doing could be useful as we try to return to normality. He also emphasised that Sweden was in fact implementing restrictive measures against the virus.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||06/03/2020|
R6, Tegnell isn't the Health Minister, he is the state epidemiologist based at the Public Health Agency of Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||06/03/2020|
r12 Thanks. That's less bad, though bad nonetheless.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||06/03/2020|
r6: That's right. I had a feeling he had some other title. But he's been the one behind this controversial policy in Sweden. I hope he gets shit-canned but I don't know how Sweden works politically. Probably needs a change in ruling party or something?
|by Anonymous||reply 15||06/03/2020|
The deaths were worse than Ebola.
And Sweden gained nothing— not a better economy, not closer to herd immunity than the rest of the world.
His strategy was an abject failure
|by Anonymous||reply 16||06/04/2020|
"'If we were to encounter the same disease again knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,' Tegnell said. It would be 'good to know exactly what to shut down to curb the spread of infection better', he added." (From The Guardian.)
Hmmm...how about anyplace where people congregate? Like businesses, parks, theaters, cafes, restaurants, churches, etc.? How moronic can this guy Tegnell be? This seems unusually stupid behavior from a country that I thought was on of the more intelligent countries in the world.
Sweden’s death rate per capita was the highest in the world over the seven days to June 2. Further proof that lockdowns, closures, enforced social distancing and masks and gloves actually work, as opposed to doing none of those things during a pandemic.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||06/04/2020|
R16 You mean his 'experiment' was an abject failure. Tegnell may want to call it a 'strategy' but it was a fucking sadistic experiment played right of the 'Nazi Book of Medical Experiments' by Josef Mengele.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||06/04/2020|
Smug sociopaths actually admit they're wrong? Wow.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||06/04/2020|
He doesn't even entirely take responsibility for just how stupid and wrong he was. He qualifies it by actually saying he doesn't know how he could have made the situation any better, then walks back his error in judgment by saying he still thinks the situation in Sweden is actually okay.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||06/04/2020|
Funny when deplorables hold up signs "We should do it like Sweden!"
Sweden's experiment was a failure.
Its strong social safetynet like healthcare for all holds that country together during the epidemic
|by Anonymous||reply 21||06/04/2020|
Sweden is about to haemorrhage foreign skilled workers.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||06/05/2020|
They will be paying for their bone-headed strategy and Tegnell's hubris for some time. Countries may shut their borders to Sweden movement as they start to reopen after lockdown.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||06/05/2020|
"He doesn't even entirely take responsibility for just how stupid and wrong he was. "
Men never do.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||06/05/2020|
R23, exactly. It's the fact that Sweden is now seeing repercussions from other countries to its policy that Tegnell has been forced into a half-hearted mea culpa.
Sweden is now completely overhauling its testing policy, from doing as little testing as possible to free testing for anyone with symptoms and contact tracing. Swedish politicians allowed themselves to be too controlled by their "experts".
|by Anonymous||reply 25||06/05/2020|
Oh cut the Swedes some slack! Best sex I EVER had was at the Grand Hotel in Stockholm. Swedes are polite, good-looking and very adventurous in bed.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||06/05/2020|
Great, R27! Why don't you go back there and try your luck now?
|by Anonymous||reply 28||06/05/2020|
[quote]'Nazi Book of Medical Experiments' by Josef Mengele.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||06/05/2020|
R25 I believe that the politicians had no say and had to take the advise from Tegnell and act on it as he directed. But the whole coronavirus mess has been handled badly by most Governments just some worst than others. Even countries like Australia and New Zealand could have acted more swiftly - distance and an excellent bio-security system which included aggressive testing, tracking and quarantine all helped but if their Governments had acted a few weeks earlier, particularly Australia they may have come out of lockdown earlier.
Still Tegnell is damaged goods now and rightfully so. One of the most important codes of medicine: first do no harm. He basically let people die. Along with Trump, that mad Brazilian president and some others, Tegnell should probably be tried for crimes against humanity. Wilful policies that directly result on the deaths on hundreds and thousands of people is unacceptable.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||06/05/2020|
What did the king say when asked about the situation?
"Börk börk börk"
|by Anonymous||reply 31||06/05/2020|
Italy is off the hook because they were the canary in the coal mine. Everybody was learning from them and the lockdowns were all modelled on the Italian experience.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||06/05/2020|
[quote]I believe that the politicians had no say and had to take the advise from Tegnell and act on it as he directed
They also stubbornly stuck to their guns for a long time.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||06/06/2020|
You guys are missing the biggest point, which is, at least in Sweden's case, herd immunity does not appear to exist. The evidence is damning. It suggests, unless the virus peters out on its own with the advent of summer or an effective vaccine is created within the next 6 - 12 months, it's likely everyone on the entire planet will eventually become infected and at some point there will not be enough healthcare workers to treat the sick.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||06/07/2020|
[quote]I believe that the politicians had no say and had to take the advise from Tegnell and act on it as he directed
This is bullshit. He's just a technocrat. It's politicians who wield power. They chose to listen to him, and did so because he offered easy advice - "don't change anything to drastically, keep the economy open".
|by Anonymous||reply 35||06/07/2020|
Again, Swedes are a very compliant population. Like North Korea. They’re very prone to being led over a cliff like lemmings.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||06/07/2020|
R35, the Swedish constitution makes it extremely difficult for government ministers to overrule the recommendations of a public agency.
[quote] It is written into the national constitution that Sweden's public agencies are independent of the government. There are two main goals of this: ensuring that decisions are made based on knowledge and expertise, and limiting corruption, because ministers cannot have influence in agency decision-making.
[quote]A minister who tries to issue direct commands to an agency over how to handle a specific issue -- either an individual case, or day-to-day decision-making -- could find themselves accused of 'ministerial rule' (ministerstyre) by political opponents. Overruling government agencies or disregarding their advice is usually seen as politically risky, even though it's not specifically forbidden in most circumstances.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||06/08/2020|
R37 Thank you. And to R35 you will note that I wrote 'I believe'. I wasn't 100% sure what the situation in Sweden was into the responsibility of the health measures taken but did recall reading a number of times that it was basically left up to Tegnell in line with the Swedish constitution. Doesn't say much for Tegnell's abilities really.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||06/08/2020|
Sorry for the Daily Fail link. But they're calling for the doc's head.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||06/09/2020|
Sweden didn’t lockdown, but economy to plunge anyway.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||06/09/2020|
Yep. Sweden's economy fell by pretty much the same amount as neighbours Norway, Finland & Denmark who didn't kill off thousands of their citizens in the process.
The thing about the economic downturn occurring world wide is that lockdown or not all economies are going to suffer - if somebody like myself who has zero interest or knowledge in economic matters could see that would happen once China placed Wuhan in lockdown its an embarrassment of major proportions for 'experts' who didn't see that coming.
The world's economy is so intertwined.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||06/10/2020|
Has Anders gone into hiding?
|by Anonymous||reply 42||06/10/2020|
Swedes are like a nation of compliant zombies. Polls show the government isn’t getting much backlash over their mishandling COVID. But expats are planning to relocate.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||06/13/2020|
Can't even admit he was wrong without "explanations."
|by Anonymous||reply 44||06/13/2020|
^ Very Swedish trait, r44.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||06/14/2020|
Sweden now whining about being treated like a pariah state by other Nordic countries.
[quote]But then came the pandemic. The issue of Sweden’s pariah status was hotly debated recently on a popular Scandinavian radio program, “A Norwegian, a Swede and a Dane,” which broadcasts weekly in all three countries.
[quote]“We can’t visit Norway. We can’t go to Denmark,” said Asa Linderborg, a journalist with a leading Swedish paper, Aftonbladet, adding that even Finland had barred Swedes.
[quote]“We are supposed to sit here in our corner of shame, and the worst part is that you’re savoring it,” she said, referring to Sweden’s neighbors. “All Norwegians, all Danes and all Finns are loving that the Swedes aren’t welcome anywhere. I long for you, yet you don’t long for me.”
Anders Tegnell thinks that a second wave will prove that Sweden has higher immunity, though he's backed down from the herd-immunity goal.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||06/23/2020|
Sweden now finds itself as one of 11 "European" countries that are seeing a significant rise in new infections. None of the other 10 is a member of the EU/EEA, however, only Sweden.
[quote]"In 11 of these countries, accelerated transmission has led to very significant resurgence that if left unchecked will push health systems to the brink once again."
[quote]The 11 countries were later identified by the WHO as Armenia, Sweden, Moldova, North Macedonia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine and Kosovo.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||06/25/2020|
Try to find a Swede who'll admit they were wrong to your face.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||Last Friday at 9:39 PM|
R49 Apparently Anders is furious that Sweden is being lumped in with those other countries. He rejects the statement by the WHO.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||Last Friday at 10:25 PM|
Why was this asshole the sole arbiter of what went down? He's the chief epidemiologist, but he doesn't run the country. Was there no one else involved in this monumental decision? And why hasn't this asshole been replaced?
|by Anonymous||reply 52||Last Sunday at 8:14 AM|
Go back and re-read the thread, R52. It's explained that Sweden's system puts science above politics, and until they filled the scientific positions with idiots, it worked. Kind of like how here in the US, until this president, we considered qualifications, experience and know-how above racism, bigotry, sexism and xenophobia.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||Last Sunday at 9:43 AM|
Sweden may well put science over politics, but he's not the only epidemiologist in the country. Doesn't he have to answer to somebody?
|by Anonymous||reply 54||Last Sunday at 12:59 PM|
Please tell me that sweet little evil Prince Oscar and his hot, hot, uncle Prince Carl Philip haven't been affected.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||Last Sunday at 1:59 PM|
He's the chief epidemiologist, his word is final.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||Last Sunday at 8:35 PM|
Well, R56, if enough Swedes get sick, the chief epidemiologist will be forced out. Don't tell me he has total authority and answers to no one in Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||Last Monday at 7:33 AM|
Australian TV has been doing a weekly episode on areas and countries around the world dealing with COVID. We have already had China, New York, Northern Italy, Russia, the UK. Tonight it is Sweden.
The reporters are brave going out there reporting on this. I expect it to be a takedown of Tegnell.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||Last Monday at 10:37 PM|