50 years ago vs now

1970 was not considered a great time for America.

1970 was not considered a great time for America # 2

No, remember when politicians actually got in trouble for lying? Nixon did a billionth of a fraction of Trump. Nixon was also at least smarter that a lump of dung and did a few good things.

1970 was not considered a great time for America # 3

But people actually seemed outraged when the right wingers pulled that shit with Kent State.

Whereas no one seems to bat an eye now.

Is not good to compare, but we are in a very unusual time, for sure. I think it’s as perilous as any time since the Civil War, because it has the potential to go very bad, very quickly. The President is literally insane, for starters.

As the 70s wore on they warmed up a lot. Post Nixon and post Vietnam.

You can't expect that kind of era to go on & on forever.

R4’s pic reminds me, have you ever noticed that Trump‘s pointing gesture at press conferences is identical to how Don DeLuise would point? There’s nothing that Trump does that is dignified.

Nixon WAS creepy looking.

Chill out Mary. America went through a Civil War. I’m sure things were a bit worse back then.

The sixties seemed way more hardcore than now.

R10, But what were the consequences? Do you want to go through that, and hear people say, “As God is my witness, it’s no big deal as I’m sure I’ll be hungry again”? Or similar?

I am also 50 and I do remember the turbulence of the 70's. There were ecology issues, Vietnam was still raging, Watergate, OPEC, we had to sit in line for hours just to get a tank of gas (this generation would lose it if they had to wait as long as we did for shit) and there were protests everywhere, most ending in violence.

There still seemed like there was hope though. I remember how there was a push to understand each other then that we are missing now. This is the most nihilistic time and, fuck, I was in my teens during the Cold War/nuclear build-up, AID's and the fairly evil Reagan. I hope this is the closest America ever comes to a dictator. Imagine how much worse it would be if Trump had a coherent brain.

R1, to be fair, as the OP is 50, he would not remember events from the year of his birth, lol. And really, people don't develop cognizant memories and comprehension until they're like 5?

Watergate was kid's stuff compared to what Trump has done.

[quote]As the 70s wore on they warmed up a lot. Post Nixon and post Vietnam.

I turned 18 and graduated from high school in 1970, so I think I have a more accurate recollection than OP. And after Nixon, we still had years of scars from Vietnam. And then MASSIVE inflation, really high interest rates, gas shortages, terrorism and skyjacking. So it wasn't all fun and games.

One major difference between now and the 70's is how information is shared and discussed online - on social media, online forums, and the like. We didn't have this back then. Before, we would discuss things within our social bubble - family, neighbor,friends, who are mostly very like us, and the establishment/corporate media - who set the tone and parameters of what is/is not discussed. We felt less divided because we could exist in our own bubbles without having to venture out too much unless we made an effort to do so.

Now, with the rise of social media, EVERYONE has a voice. Everyone gets to share their opinion immediately on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, whatever. Overall, this is a good thing. Issues that affect people w/o power (LGBT, African-Americans, immigrants, etc.) can get immediate attention in social media that would have been buried before. Sometimes, what is being discussed or shared on social media drives the establishment media. Would the killing of George Floyd made the news in the 70's? Probably not, it was just par for the course. White, middle class America could go on with their lives completely unaware of the dangers African -Americans faced on a daily basis.

We don't get to bury our heads in the sand anymore. We are constantly bombarded with news and information, and everyone's opinion of that information, instantly on social media and mainstream news. It's a constant information overload. That makes us feel overwhelmed and helpless, and it exposes the deep divisions in this country that have always existed.

Apologies for the long-windedness.

Same show, different players, OP! We just have access to more information now.

"So it wasn't all fun and games."

But we had disco!!!!

We could drink at age 18! Which really meant 16, with the non-photo IDs they had, at the time.

Great leaders in the 70's? OP, Does the name Nixon mean anything to you?

r20 Not in California.

[quote][R1], to be fair, as the OP is 50, he would not remember events from the year of his birth, lol. And really, people don't develop cognizant memories and comprehension until they're like 5?

But he said 50 years ago - so I thought he meant 1970.

The decade kept changing. 1978 was very different from 1975.

Look at the "let's be" threads...we've done them all ,1970 thru 1979.

One day I'd been really following and posting on the Let's Be 1978 thread and that evening I saw some film made in 1978 on TV and it was amazing how that thread caught the era. It was freaky, in fact. DL is very good at that sort of thing.

I agree, OP.

You should watch "Years and Years" on HBO.

I’m 59, OP, and I agree with you. It’s certainly never been worse in my lifetime(imho).

[quote]I’m 59, OP, and I agree with you. It’s certainly never been worse in my lifetime(imho).

I, as a gay man, hated the 80s more - but not JUST because of AIDS.

I lived in San Francisco in the 1980s, R26, I understand. I lived in the Castro, worked @ SFAF, and volunteered @ STOP AIDS Project. I could count the number of HIV negative people I knew on one hand. IMHO, it is worse now (for the country). Just my opinion.

[quote] You should watch "Years and Years" on HBO.

I was the one that posted a clip from it the other day (but I have not seen all of it).

To add to what R26 and R27 said: I do agree one thing - ONE - seems to be better: gay men and lesbians have some legal protections and are not the targets they used to be. I took so much homophobic abuse in school and was attacked several times in my 20s. Not to say those things NEVER happen now, but that appear to be less frequent, and there are more visible communities of support for us.

I watched too many friends die in the 90s, and am glad that medications exist now to keep people alive and to minimize risk of infection.

I'm 57. As as white man, things have always been "good" for me. As a gay man, things are better now than they were back in the 70s-80s. But if I were a person of color I don't know if I'd feel the same way. Another poster nailed it when he said things were shit, but at least we had hope. Right now, I'm feeling pretty hopeless.

We're looking at the complete collapse of democracy. Take a moment to imagine what will become of this country with an authoritarian regime.

It will be a fucking nightmare. The US will become the enemy of the free world. The implications of this are beyond terrifying. Not to mention our economy will stay cratered. No investment in innovation or programs designed to rebuild our infrastructure. Just a continued siphoning of money from the bottom upwards.

China may be a despicable, Communist country - but they're middle class is growing at a phenomenal rate. They actually INVEST in their citizens (if they're not persecuting them).

And look at us. On the verge of ruin. With a psychotic leader that almost half this country worship as a god.

The flat earthers are about to enjoy a permanent golden age.

50 here too! I remember Nixon was on TV constantly, but I was too young to understand what was going on. Stuff didn't really start to have an impact until AIDS killed Freddie Mercury and Rock Hudson (my ma made a big deal about it). However, I was still too young to worry about AIDS affecting me at that time. Then Clinton impeachment, World Trade attacks and Hurricanes Katrina/Sandy.

This Trump era is by far the worse thing to happen to this country in my 50 years. Not only does his bad behavior hurt all races, genders and sexualities, he is also damaging America's standing and support around the world with allies and enemies alike. Now - he is even affecting our health and lives. And the crazy gets worse everyday. Trump is destroying America from the inside-out and will succeed if he is not stopped. Now - is a lot worse!

I hate when you elders glorify the past. Bad shit has happened back then and will continue to happen, sadlyyyy.

R30!

[quote] And look at us. On the verge of ruin

Oh, please. Other people have survived and come back from wars, genocides, nuclear bombing, plague, etc. Obviously Trump is an embarrassing disaster, but some of this shrill doomsday caterwauling, like at R30, is just too over-the-top. It reaches parody-level.

[quote] I was the one that posted a clip from Years and Years the other day.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I would have missed this gem of a show if you hadn't done that.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was very affecting.

R35 you are welcome. I have it on my view list so I'd better get on it and watch it!!

[quote] R34: Oh, please. Other people have survived and come back from wars, genocides, nuclear bombing, plague, etc. Obviously Trump is an embarrassing disaster, but some of this shrill doomsday caterwauling, like at [R30], is just too over-the-top. It reaches parody-level.

Oh, please, yourself. You’re talking about a country where wearing a mask to save lives is considered controversial; and where a couple months of social distancing is considered “something we can’t do [italic] forever!” [/italic] as if it were the slightest bit challenging. You think they could well tolerate “wars, genocides, nuclear bombing, plague”? No, they could not.

Humanity in the past has survived these things. A lot of individuals did not, and many of the individuals who did survive were permanently scarred.

Trust in government, in the news media, and in other institutions is at historic lows. Community participation is also at a historic low. People feel hopeless and disconnected.

This is part of why I can barely even hate Trump. As loathsome as he is, he's more a symptom than a cause of what ails us. A cult of personality around a strongman is exactly the kind of thing that comes about in this kind of historical moment.

Blame all this shit on deplorables if you must, but it's worth considering that Democrats' big solution for the pandemic is giving $4,000/year of tax credits for Americans to go back to college. They are completely unwilling to do anything to improve the country because they're as beholden to the elites who have been looting this country for the past 40 years as the Republicans are.

I'm 57. I agree with what everything R17 wrote.

I remember Watergate and Nixon's resignation. What Trump did was the level of and worse than Watergate. People just don't care today, because of the deeply partisan nature of politics (Thank you, Ronald Reagan. He said government is the problem. Look where we are now). If Fox and social weren't around, Trump would have been forced to resign or removed from office.

I remember the Fall of Saigon. I can remember the Nightly News listing the number of Americans killed, wounded or MIA each night at the end of the program. Nobody cares that we are still involved in Afghanistan or Iraq or the mess we created there. GWB told us after 9/11 to go shopping. Well we did and waved the flag! Twenty years on...GWB and Cheney are war criminals. we manufacture bombs in the US for Saudi pilots to drop over Yemenis and have helped turn that civil war into the greatest humanitarian crisis in the world today. Guys what those Yemeni kids will become 20 years from now?

There was apathy, selfishness, racism, sexism, and all sorts of bigotry in 1970. Some things have gotten better, some things have stayed the same, some things have gotten worse.

Today, we had some weeks ago a group of white men armed to the teeth exerting a State House. They went home to sleep in their own beds that night. Can anyone imagine an armed group of black men doing the same and going home to sleep in their beds? I can't

I wasn’t yet born but I’m a bitch.

R37, my post was in direct response to R30, and yes, that exaggerated, dystopian, demoralizing view of this country becoming a second North Korea deserved an "Oh, please," IMO. Change and improvement will (or at least can) begin with getting Trump out of office in November. Trump is not some immortal god. He's not permanent and there's no reason to just lay down and die.

None of this is going to matter once alien invaders land and take over the planet.

"[R37], my post was in direct response to [R30], and yes, that exaggerated, dystopian, demoralizing view of this country becoming a second North Korea deserved an "Oh, please," IMO. Change and improvement will (or at least can) begin with getting Trump out of office in November. Trump is not some immortal god. He's not permanent and there's no reason to just lay down and die."

Never did I say that we are becoming North Korea. Nor did I say Trump is immortal or that we should lay down and die. Stop making shit up just so you can react to it.

We are in the midst of a complete economic meltdown on par with the great depression, and every sane person with an informed opinion is sounding the alarm bells about the growing threat of authoritarianism yet you dismiss it all as dramatic nonsense. SMH.

And if you think that once Trump leaves office the healing will begin then you're even dumber than I imagined (and believe me, I imagined you to be pretty fucking stupid).

But let's just do a tally shall we? The middle class is cratering, a global pandemic is wreaking havoc on all economies, more than 40 million are jobless, 100,000 are dead and that number is rising, we have a psychotic narcissistic nut for a president (who just retweeted one of his acolytes saying the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat) and 40% of our voting public are delusional, racist, mouth-breathing conspiracy zombies who seem to be lusting for civil war. Nope, nothing dystopian to see here folks!

Personally I would rather assume the worst and act accordingly then be a tra-la-la ding-dong like yourself.

R43, you sound extremely upset. And your second post only enhanced my original assessment of you as a shrill and caterwauling Chicken Little.

None of the things your worst-case scenarios hypothesize about are irreversible. American democracy is not on the edge of extinction. We are not about to become the "enemy" of the free world as you claim. Believe it or not, Democrats actually can start taking steps to help restore the middle class. This pandemic has brought about a scary time fraught with uncertainty, but it's also [italic]not[/italic] the Bubonic Plague, which wiped out 1/3 of the population of Europe. Of course once Trump leaves office, the country won't become some giant kumbaya circle, but having actual, responsible leadership and a restorative president -- a la Roosevelt -- will help heal some rifts and can help put some people back to work. Nowhere near 40% of the country voted for Trump. Outside of trolls with an agenda or the fewer than 0.000001% of people appearing in those sensationalized videos about riots or COVID protests, nobody is aching for a civil war.

Maybe that sounds Pollyanna to you, but I'm not sure exactly what one can gain in life walking around with that giant chip on your shoulder or your form of do-nothing, assume-the-worst fatalism.

1970 was not a great time for Detroit.

I had a 76 pinto. It had a 6 cylinder engine, so absolutely everybody who first drove it Initially underestimated the power and spun the wheels taking off. It was the first year after the redesign or it was recalled and fixed, I forget.

Years and Years looks good! About to watch on Amazon now. Thanks!

I want to watch this Years and Years show now.

[quote]None of this is going to matter once alien invaders land and take over the planet.

I, for one, welcome our alien invader overlords.

We’ve had 6 good years in the last 60: 1994-2000. The rest was shit.

What was wrong with 1992 to 1994 and the Obama years?

[quote] Blame all this shit on deplorables if you must, but it's worth considering that Democrats' big solution for the pandemic is giving $4,000/year of tax credits for Americans to go back to college. They are completely unwilling to do anything to improve the country because they're as beholden to the elites who have been looting this country for the past 40 years as the Republicans are.

R38, I'm calling BULLSHIT here. Mostly due to the fact that it was this type of "Oh they're both bad candidates" nonsense that convinced enough idiots in OH/PA/MI/WI to throw their hands up and vote for the short-fingered vulgarian-turned-sociopath over Clinton. Though while I'm at it, just what the FUCK are you talking about? Are ya talking about the existing tax credit for students and how a few Dem's are trying to protect any CARES dollars from being taxed? Cherry pick much? Do you REALLY think that's all the Democrats are doing?

I rarely say this, but you are a fucking cunt. I hope someday you and your fellow travelers realize just what that attitude has done to debase and degrade this nation. And I hope you then find yourself filled with shame and existential horror at what you encouraged or helped enable.

R52 -- R38 is full of shit. So is R30. Two stupid cunts.

The horrible right wing has taken over to destroy anything good about our country.

The right wing used to be more about fiscal moderation. Then when Reagan and the moral majority and all that happened, the Republicans became the true repugs that we know today and the divisions became more acute, and from what I can see, hopeless.

All I can say, children, is: FUCK YOUI ALL. I was there in 1970. Lived through every second of it. It didn't feel like this. The bottom has dropped out.

Years and Years - Wow!! Stayed up all night binge watching Season 1. Best $12 I spent! Reminds me of Six Feet Under meets Black Mirror -- in a very possible future world (no spoilers!). Excellent suggestion. Thanks!

I'm 58 and this is the worst I've seen this country, too.

When my parents moved to the city in 1961, there waiting were thousands of low-skilled, high paying manufacturing jobs ; the kind where a couple of high school graduates with kids could buy a modest house, pay a mortgage and the bills and send your kids to the local public schools, or, if you had the desire and the dough-ray-mee, to private parochial schools.

Well, the shareholder class took a good long look at that situation, decided that, as haves, they had to have more, gutted unions which sustained those low skilled high paying, positioned Reagan, had judges in place to side with corporations and so it began: the permanent decimation of an upwardly mobile working class.

And it must be pointed, pained as I am to do it, that the Dems share some responsibility for that, too. I adore Bill Clinton, but I remember the internal Democratic fight over NAFTA. They saw how the outsourcing of jobs in the name of inevitable "globalization" would end up serving the wealthy shareholding class instead of the long term prospects of the working class.

I truly think Clinton had the working classes interests at heart, but even he has conceded that those who opposed him on the NAFTA were prescient and much of what they foresaw has come to pass.

That decimation of the former manufacturing jobs base has hit African Americans the hardest.

And now, Here we are.

50 years ago we didn't have a pandemic. Over 100,000 dead and I still have difficulty wrapping my head around it. Trump is the worst president in the history of this country. We protested the Vietnam War and it actually did something. I don't know why people weren't out in droves before the pandemic protesting the orange fucker. Things are so much worse now and it's all Trump's fault.

Is Biden Trump's fault, R59?

Whose fault is Biden?

I was an 8-year-old flower child in 1970 San Francisco and remember even then the deep distrust of government, the wide racial/economic/ generational divides, and intense hatred of the police. Back then everyone I knew felt strongly inspired that we could overcome . The bittersweet progress that we've made feels empty in light of where we are now, but despite all evidence to the contrary I think that many of us have suspended disbelief and still hold on to hope that we'll make it through this last dark year to quash Trump and his ilk. Maybe the divide has only widened in the last 50 years, but there will alway be we idealists who believe we can somehow overthow the corrupt and bridge that gap.

The American Empire reached it's zenith from 1945-1965. Really only 20 good years. Barely a generation. The decline has been long and painful. Now becoming bloody. Been there done that.

You stupid bastards really did it.

...and things have gone from bad to worse...it gets worse every fucking day. These are some fucked-up times!!

IMO, things took a sharp, bad turn right after Sept. 11, 2001, the WTC & Pentagon attacks. Americans became mindless warmongers, mindlessly pro-law enforcement. Patriot Act was passed even though it was obviously wrong. IIRC, Hillary voted yes on the Patriot Act. I grew up near a huge military base. Prior to 2001, there was a more skeptical attitude towards military & law enforcement. People were more willing to question the military & police.

Bush the 2nd got the US into war with the wrong country with some mind-numbingly stupid, convoluted “logic” (weapons of mass destruction). To this day, I’m still shaking my head in disbelief about this war with Iraq.

[quote]I'm 50 and grew up in the 70s.

I'm 48 and I remember the 1970s as being absolute fucking shit, OP. Do you really not? Gas shortages, massive inflation, corruption, unemployment, enormous inequality, and a vapid fascist-loving Middle American culture that cropped up to protest gay rights, women's rights and civil rights. Even alternative singers and punks who were playing androgynous or gay would quickly turn to a fascist Nazi hateful phase, like Bowie's Thin White Duke (he was seen doing a sieg heil one day and apparently the backlash made him rethink his image) or Lou Reed going from gay to "fuck those faggots." And of course all the Nazi memorabilia and pro-Hitler hate the UK punks engaged in to make themselves feel edgy.

It was such a fucking nasty time, just awful. This is the same thing. It's not worse really, but it is just as bad. We're right back where we were 50 years ago.

No, R66, even with all you listed, THIS is much worse.

The exact same riots we're seeing tonight happened in the 1960s and 1970s too. I'd argue we haven't gotten to the level of a Vietnam War or a Kent State yet, we haven't seen the equivalent of an MLK or Malcolm X assassinated. So no, it's not worse.

MLK and Malcolm was before 50 years ago. You are focuced on the riots only (which will get worse). The state of our gov, democracy, pandemic, riots, Trump, GOP, economy - all at once, is far worse!

MLK and Malcolm was before 50 years ago. You are focused on the riots only (which will get worse). The state of our gov, democracy, pandemic, riots, Trump, GOP, economy - all at once, is far worse! If you think otherwise, you are deluded or a troll.

I was born in the late 60's and my parents sheltered me from a lot of what was going on. Today's kids know so much more just because of social media.

55 here. I think there's just too much credit and spending now. My parents had a credit card and it stayed in a drawer. They were friends with a couple that spent beyond their means and they were seen as foolish. Also, products have gotten so expensive with all the features that are about convenience. Look at cars. It's crazy what people see as baseline necessary in their cars. Do you really need that sunroof? Do you really need seats that heat up? I remember when cars had simple bench seats, front and back, so much more flexible! We had one television growing up and it was in the living room. I had a friend that was considered rich for our area. He had a television in his bedroom and it seemed like the ultimate luxury. Now we're expected to not only have iPhones and iPads and PC's.... but to replace them every other year with new models. The consumerism is crazy. There's no way it's sustainable.

There's a tremendous downside to all the conveniences these days. People actually think they need to buy pre-cut and cleaned salad greens or else preparing a salad is a lot of work! Is it really surprising that there's an obesity problem in the US? The food is industrially produced, at great expense to the environment and we have no idea what's in it anymore! The government has decided that we don't need to know where our meat comes from. This is crazy.

The 24 hours media/news/twitter stuff is also killing us. There was a time when we'd live our lives and then stop and read or watch the news once a day. Now it's all about the news. And the media companies know it so the headlines are getting more alarming to keep us engaged. It's like a drug.

I think I should stop now. Sorry if I'm rambling.....

[quote]I'm 50 and grew up in the 70s.

If you’re 50, how much of the 70s do you really remember? Wouldn’t you more accurately say that you came of age in the 80s? How much understanding and awareness of the bigger world out there did you really have at age 7 or 8?

Dude, I grew up in the 70s too. Shit was fucked up then too, and I knew it as a kid. Keep the faith.