Fake Covid Death Numbers

Hospitals are in a shit storm now. Regular admissions are way down. The feds are paying hospitals based on number of covid patients. I work in hospital administration.

They aren't "fake" and they aren't being "inflated." That's a bullshit story that MAGAdroids are trying to spread. The reality is that deaths from coronavirus are being under-reported by as much as 50%.

Expalin this please, r2

R2 is correct! This is a deplorable propaganda misinformation thread!

Also please explain this

We know why.

I don't. r6.

Tell me - Why?

YOU sound like the propagandist, r4

They want us to be afraid. They want to us to be ok with “contact tracing”. Our rights are being infringed on more and more everyday. The patriot act on steroids. Terrifying.

They want us to be afraid. They want to us to be ok with “contact tracing”. Our rights are being infringed on more and more everyday. The patriot act on steroids. Terrifying.

It's ok, r9. It's the Obama permanant bureaucracy doing this.

And because Trump is so disgusting, to be spied upon is fine.

Never fear, everything is here....

No one wants to talk about this.

I don't doubt for a second R2's reason is a great deal of it.

I meant R1.

Allison Pearson? Figures. That nasty Tory bitch is an incompetent, lying sack of bile-covered shit who likened asking kids to wear masks to child abuse.

See how easy it is to change the narrative to prevent a focus on Trump’s incompetence? Other countries with working governments implemented a coordinated response to the virus, and have seen a fraction of the infections and deaths of those seen here in the US. But instead of throwing his ass out of office, we’ll haggle over how deaths should be reported, allow a value to be placed on sacrificial risk groups, and roll the dice on state-by-state reopening strategies too often focused on “saving” the economy over saving lives. We’ll done, Trump defenders!

PA Health Rachel Levine took her mother out of her Care Home right before she then sent RL sent Covid-19 patients into care homes....

Medical malpractice is nothing new. I'm more inclined to believe R1 than R2

You're not allowed to say that, R17. Admins will delete the thread.

R17 He, HE! Enough with the bullshit.

Whenever his skeletons come out of the closet the idiots who played along with his creepy sexual dress-up will get discredited with him.

There's already been repeated thread after repeated thread on this OP. Why did you find it necessary to come here and start another? Why? Why OP? Can you give us an intelligent, honest answer? Can you? Why would you come here and post this kind of shit yet AGAIN when there have already been so many prior threads on this EXACT same subject. Do you really think this is that damned interesting that it warrants another entire thread to be started? DO YOU??

Why couldn't you have done a search first OP? That would have been the polite thing to do. What you demonstrated was just plain selfishness. You have shown that you don't think about anybody but yourself. It's all about you and your own satisfaction. Next time before you post, do us all a favor and do a search. We don't need another duplicate thread just because of your laziness.

I suspect that Covid deaths are UNDER REPORTED.

The statistics just show Corona patients who died in hospitals. How many are dying at home?

Also, some states like Florida are not releasing stats at all. Florida also fired the woman who was keeping track of the deaths because she wouldn't change the numbers.

You all realize that the nursing home thing is a trump dog whistle, right? These were nursing home residents who already had covid and were hospitalized returning back to the facility under quarantine.

R5, it's very simple. The death rate is lower if you test more people. If 100% of those you test are being admitted to hospital because they're desperately ill with the disease, then you can't be surprised when a lot of them die. Once you start testing very broadly, the death rate drops substantially because you've now found the people who are mildly or not at all ill, and you're comparing the dying with a much wider sample.

Experts think the "true" death rate is somewhere between 0.5 and 3% of those infected. It varies with age of population, obviously, and with how good the heath system and government policy on the matter are. But mostly if it's a lot higher, it's because you're not picking up 100% of infections with testing, so they're not recorded. All the countries with a very low rate (under 1%) have very good testing.

A good rule of thumb is, if your health system is overwhelmed and your death rate appears to be upwards of 5%, it's a bet Nathan Detroit would take in a snap that your total infections number is much higher than you think.

If you make your total population your 100%, worldwide death rates vary from 0.1 deaths per million population to 18.6, the main variable being early action.

Trolls are running with two lines now: 1. Fake death numbers and 2. The only reason the case numbers are increasing is due to more testing (not more infections).

Excess deaths associated with COVID-19.

The real coronavirus death toll.

I already had R5-R12 on ignore.

[quote]Expalin this please

There's nothing to "expalin" [sic], since it's explained right in the article. The headline doesn't match the content.

[quote]“It is not uncommon that death certificates and surveillance case definitions for deaths of communicable diseases are sometimes divergent,” Herlihy told Deavers. “Most of the time, the cases … do line up very closely. But there can be slight discrepancies.”

[quote]To add to the confusion, Bol said he expects the numbers from the two reporting systems to “converge” over time. That’s because death certificates can sometimes take weeks to complete. So, it’s possible some of the deaths in the gap between the two systems might not have a death certificate yet.

The article got one thing wrong, though, and that is this statement:

[quote]“You guys record every COVID case that dies, whether that is the cause of death or not,” he said. “To my knowledge, you don’t do that with influenza, is that correct?”

That used to be true but the CDC began a separate tracking process for flu deaths a few years ago.

Deplorable propaganda is getting more tired by the day!

R28.

[quote]They want to us to be ok with “contact tracing”.

You do understand that "contact tracing" has been a reality in the medical profession for decades, right? When your doctor asks you who your sexual partners are after you have been diagnosed with syphilis, that's "contact tracing." When your pediatrician asks you what school your kids go to after they have been diagnoses with measles, that's "contact tracing,"

[quote] Hospitals are in a shit storm now. Regular admissions are way down. The feds are paying hospitals based on number of covid patients. I work in hospital administration.

Liar

Tuning out abysmal ignorance so that you can focus on reality isn't exactly being an ostrich, R31. It's separating the signal from the noise.

Based on your posting history, though, it's pretty clear that you don't know the difference.

One.

Two,

Thanks you OP for pointing out that the bad democrats are making up this disease to hurt our wonderful President Trump who loves the gays peoples. There is no bad disease, there is only bad democrats! You are to be congratulated for bringing the truth to this good patriot homosexualist site.

Yeah, that was a pretty obvious troll remark, R33, most likely based on this debunked conspiracy theory.

Three

[quote]No one wants to talk about this.

You can find plenty of discussion of it on Breitbart and other right-wing nutcase sites. You might be more comfortable there.

We also don't want to talk about the moon being made of green cheese, R12, and the earth being flat. How telling.

OP is nothing more than your garden-variety troll. FF and block.

Wow. Mob mentality in full display.

I'm not OP (nor R12) and don't necessarily agree with him, but wow. Crushing all dissent would make Boris proud.

Wow... Stupidity in full display, since nobody here is "crushing all dissent." See, R43, all of those "dissent" posts are still there, available for all to read, as are the posts with the information showing that those posts are total bullshit.

Welcome to an open site that allows people to write what they want, even if it's "dissent."

Fair enough, R44, I should have said attempted crushing. See R42.

R43 equates blocking someone off one's feed as "crushing all dissent." You really are quite stupid, R43. I guess you don't understand that blocking someone means the blocker can't see them. You're not blocking them for the entire thread not to see.

"FF" is not same as blocking, R45. Read before you call someone stupid.

Meant R46.

I'm talking about blocking, R47/R48, not FF'ing. I know full well the difference, cunt.

Ok, Q.

No one but a troll would put up a thread that crowed about "Fave Covid Death Numbers." Ignore, FF--whatever you choose. Neither is crushing dissent.

R41 Everyone knows the moon is made of Blue Cheese! How dare you, sir! Good day, sir!

It's hard to fake the death numbers, op. The NYTimes, CDC and assorted other outlets and agencies monitor excess deaths.

"Fake," not "Fave."

Our healthcare system is flawed and corrupt from the top down. You don't need to be a Breitbart reader to see this. One minute we're talking about the absurdity of charging $30 for a dose of aspirin or $629 to apply a bandaid and the next we're worshipping the ground healthcare personnel walk on because there's a panic. Don't underestimate the lengths people will go to when there's a monetary incentive involved.

The CDC guidelines for mortality certification are... questionable.. at best

[quote]In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.

Rr55, that's not "questionable." It's standard practice for any death, whether from heart disease, cancer, pneumonia, etc. And they're using the correct language, as well, with "probable" or "presumed," rather than assuming certainty. Why on earth would you have a problem with that?

[quote] Wow... Stupidity in full display, since nobody here is "crushing all dissent."

But you are Blanche, you are hurling unfounded accusations and discouraging people from engaging in good faith dialogue by calling them right wing trolls in lieu of making a definitive argument.

Sorry, R57, but you are, of course, rather obviously incorrect, since you're ignoring the posts on this thread that show that the OP is full of shit.

And I'm still waiting for any sign that any "dissent" is being "crushed," since all of those "dissent" posts are there for all to see.

[quote]One minute we're talking about the absurdity of charging $30 for a dose of aspirin or $629 to apply a bandaid and the next we're worshipping the ground healthcare personnel walk on because there's a panic.

The doctors and nurses putting themselves at risk caring for covid-19 patients aren't the people setting hospital pricing.

R56 Because there is a monetary incentive involved and I have seen firsthand how corrupt the healthcare industry is. I don't believe guesstimating or "eyeballing" a suspected Covid-19 patient should in any way be a legitimate form of documenting these cases. How were so many of these diagnoses made when there was NO available testing?

R59 is correct! Corporations set those prices and those corporations are undoubtably run by deplorables

The supposed "monetary incentive," r60, has already been covered above. Nor have you been able to establish that anyone is "guesstimating" or "eyeballing" when they make their diagnosis. And it's precisely *because* there was no testing that doctors had to use their best judgment, just as they do for every death they certify.

You're going to have to do better than that to pretend that the standard boilerplate language and process used by the CDC is somehow "questionable."

[quote] The doctors and nurses putting themselves at risk caring for covid-19 patients aren't the people setting hospital pricing.

Yes but they also didn't choose this career path in anticipation for a pandemic. Don't kid yourself. Most people entering the nursing field these days do so with the hopes of becoming a specialized practitioner and it's already one of the better paying occupations. The media has done a good job of making sure your sentimental instincts override your rationality.

Wrong thread

[quote]Yes but they also didn't choose this career path in anticipation for a pandemic.

So what? Neither did grocery store clerks, meat processing workers or nursing home aides. I honor them all.

In what way is applauding people who are on the front lines of the pandemic "overriding [my] rationality," r63? You seem to have a habit of making these rather bizarre inferences without quite coming out and saying what you mean. Be specific: where is the problem?

I have no problem appreciating the hard work and risk of many in the health care profession, particularly in the early days of the pandemic in cities like New York and Seattle where there was insufficient and inadequate protective gear.

I also have no problem reviewing all of the available data on the pandemic and reaching conclusions about that data independent of my respect for many in the health care profession.

[quote] The supposed "monetary incentive," [R60], has already been covered above.

Correct. There is a monetary incentive for reporting these cases. Glad we've established that.

[quote]Nor have you been able to establish that anyone is "guesstimating" or "eyeballing" when they make their diagnosis. And it's precisely *because* there was no testing that doctors had to use their best judgment, just as they do for every death they certify.

You've contradicted yourself within two sentences. Whether you want to call it using their best judgment or guesstimation is of no consequence. The symptoms of Covid-19 run concomitantly with a myriad of other infections and disease. No criteria other than testing is an absolute and should be admissible. Your argument is based on an appeal to authority and if you honestly believe in the infallibility of doctors and nurses there's a wonderful neurosurgeon currently serving as the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development that I think you should see.

Underreported coronavirus deaths, including data from New York, Spain, Italy, the UK, the Netherlands, etc.

[quote] Yes but they also didn't choose this career path in anticipation for a pandemic. So what? Neither did grocery store clerks, meat processing workers or nursing home aides. I honor them all.

You poor dope. Get a "support our troops" bumper sticker to make yourself feel just that little bit better about the fool's paradise you inhabit while you're at it.

[quote] In what way is applauding people who are on the front lines of the pandemic "overriding [my] rationality," [R63]? You seem to have a habit of making these rather bizarre inferences without quite coming out and saying what you mean. Be specific: where is the problem?

In the same way all cultthink and blind veneration obscures judgment....

[quote]Correct. There is a monetary incentive for reporting these cases. Glad we've established that.

Wrong. You have no data to back that up, of course, which is why you will continue to play these silly games.

[quote]You've contradicted yourself within two sentences. Whether you want to call it using their best judgment or guesstimation is of no consequence.

Yes, actually it is, as words matter. Your choice of words is inflammatory and inaccurate.

[quote]Your argument is based on an appeal to authority

Whereas your argument is based on ... nothing at all.

[quote]and if you honestly believe in the infallibility of doctors and nurses

Since I never said or implied that doctors and nurses are "infallible," forgive me if I ignore this as the bad faith [italic]non sequitur[/italic] that it is.

[quote] Wrong. You have no data to back that up, of course, which is why you will continue to play these silly games.

It's in the CARES act buddy, maybe you should read it.

LMAO R64 that was kind of a brilliant mistake.

[quote] Whereas your argument is based on ... nothing at all.

I'll repeat myself since you've decided any counter to your "I honor doctors and our marvelous healthcare system" platitude-in-lieu-of-an-argument approach isn't worth cherrypicking for a lamebrained dismissal. The symptoms of Covid-19 run concomitantly with a myriad of other infections and disease. No criteria other than testing is an absolute and should be admissible.

R66 Keep my name out your whore mouth.

I’m so happy deplorables finally discovered how to use the word fake!

[quote] all of those "dissent" posts are still there, available for all to read

Want to revise that comment, R44? OP is now crossed out and his link deleted.