Fucking laid off

Life offers no guarantees OP. But you are right. It is a very shitty time to be job hunting. How is your hole? Can you present it?

Oh, go ahead and get a blog OP.

Excuse me miss, but I have problems of my own. I do not have time to accommodate anyone else's. My sister is currently suffering from HIV. Does anyone care about my problems? Some people can be so damn selfish. If you continue to contact me with your problems, you will be reported. Have a great day!

OP. your employer is not your friend and owes you nothing. Just like you don't owe them an explanation if you found a better job and wanted to leave

You're going to take the rest of the week off? So, tomorrow?

OP you sound really unpleasant and entitled. They’re are people actually suffering out there. You’re worried about getting another 6 figure job. At least you get unemployment benefits.

Corporations these days are built around lies. A lot of people are simply paid to lie. It's unfortunate.

Sorry for your layoff. That sucks. Unfortunately, your next employer, if it's a corporation, will probably be a liar also. Really, this whole economy is built around bullshit.

OP is why it's such a joy to work from home. Not having to listen to OP's daily dose of drama on a face to face basis is a godsend.

R8, I work from home too...hence the rant here instead of in the office kitchen.

My grandfather was paid well and had a pension and the company he worked for still make a fortune. They managed to make money while still treating employees with basic decency. He was loyal to that company for life.

Playing office politics is not for the timid. You had to have seen or heard signs that this was coming. I had the same thing happen to me only I was prepared and had loads of questions for my boss and HR, specifically about age discrimination and that I was 5 months away from being able to retire. When I threatened a lawsuit, they backed down and let me work the additional 5 months so I was eligible for a full retirement and a 6-month severance when I walked out the door.

OP, you need to sit your manger down and try to "find a solution" and ask him to try to revisit the issue with whoever so that he can retain you. YOu might consider taking a slight pay cut. But don't offer that unless it come up further down the line. YOu get it. Economies need to be taken, but you need to demonstrate to your boss that getting rid of you, will make it impossible for him to function EFFECTIVELY. he can function, but not as well as if you were there for support. Make sure he knows that who ever encouraged this to happen was not looking out for HIS interests. Ask him to help you find a solution....

Don't trust anybody OP, especially management!

You can have my confusing, stressful, shitty job if you’d like OP!

R12 here. Nothing that is done cannot be undone. If necessary look into options like taking a two week unpaid furlough. Or working 3 or 4 days a week. But work with your manager to find options other than letting you go. Being laid off is not necessarily permanent. YOu are eligible for unemployment and ifI'm not mistaken your company has to pay some of that. But you have to make a case for them to keep you and you have to get you manager to buy into it. To do that you have to persuade him it is in HIS interests. Now get back in the damned game.

That sucks big time OP. I'm sorry for you. I'd try to talk again to the manager as well. Don't give up.

Let me guess, R6–you work in HR!

Let me guess, R6–you work in HR!

Good for you, R11.

It’s one step away from feudalism - with corporations and the 0.1% as our overlords. Get the additional $600/week now and move somewhere cheaper.

No problem. Just get rid of the word "off."

REVOLUTION NOW!!!!!!

TAKE TO THE STREETS!!!!

OP -- is this your first time at the rodeo? You say you've been working there for 8 years, yet you sound like the greenest, most naive person. You have the attitude that your employer used you. That's the whole purpose of hiring someone!!! It's called work! They use you to do something and you get paid for being used. Try to remember how these relationships work.

OP, you had me sympathizing until you added the "100K+ job" part,

No one making more that about 75K should ever be dumb enough to be blindsided. The onus is on you for not being invested enough to understand your role and its safety. It sounds like you knew for months before COVID-19 that things weren't great, and you didn't try to find an alternative. And you sat on your hands when the virus started getting attentions. It was a job you didn't like in the first place, and it's obviously a rotten company (no HR rep would tell you when your supervisor knew something about your termination unless the system is faulty, HR is not following standard protocols or the HR person is being let go, too). But you'd rather sit there and collect and be miserable, and share it with complete strangers.

SO. Big world. Big head on someone who's not a big boy. Grow up. If you can't work for your own satisfaction beyond a salary that OUGHT to have given you some options in contacts and offers, you don't need to bother us.

Because, Miss, with all due respect, I have my own problems.

Such as how to get the camel toe back on the camel and into the desert.

I feel like Madame LaFarge, knitting and licking my lips to see what will happen when the corporate toadies and drones are furloughed and not called back! Suddenly they have to pay for health insurance! Now there's nowhere to hide the fact that they do nothing but play on social media all day. In a downsized corporation it's going to be out the door they go. Maybe, just maybe, people will get angry enough to end this hyper Capitalist shitshow.

[quote]They will backstab you in a minute

A minute? Try a split second!

OP, this was your chance to do your Joan Crawford! I guess you don’t know how to win the hard way.

As R6 said [quote]OP you sound really unpleasant and entitled. They’re are people actually suffering out there. You’re worried about getting another 6 figure job. At least you get unemployment benefits.

I'm sure you have some type of financial safety net. Imagine people working for $xx.xx/hour and getting laid off with no recourse. You can still collect unemployment. Yup, it sucks...but I think most of us are one decision away from your plight. I suppose we'll all deal with it or come to DL and pitch a tantrum.

[quote] Playing office politics is not for the timid. You had to have seen or heard signs that this was coming. I had the same thing happen to me[.] [] I was 5 months away from being able to retire. When I threatened a lawsuit, they backed down and let me work the additional 5 months[.]

R11, I'm glad you got your retirement, but I disagree that OP should have seen this coming.

OP, I was sympathetic until you started "requiring" $100,000 for your future, new job. Get a grip, humble yourself, and look for a new job that pays your bills.

I disagree that OP is in the position to get his job back, even at a lower rate of pay. It's over. I'd apply for unemployment.

r29 - I disagree. OP should have seen this coming. He should have built relationships in the office so he knew what was being discussed behind closed doors. At my company, the grapevine was always ahead of the curve and usually nailed it on the head about what was going to happen. I've been through round after round of layoffs in my career and details always leaked out ahead of time.

[quote] My first question to HR person after her spiel was if my manager knew. And she confirmed he did. I get on a call with him and he swore he had no idea.

I don't understand why you're so mad at your boss. Why would he have any responsibility to level with you?

Does anyone else think OP was fired rather than laid off?

Well - what was he supposed to say OP? Tell you that you most likely will not have a job and deal with the fall out of that? Anger, minimal job performance, etc.

Plus, if HR is involved, he CANNOT say anything. He did what he was told.

Losing any job sucks, but this isn't your manager's fault dude.

[quote] He's [manager's] been angry (directed towards me) when he feels someone has circumvented his manager role[.] [From the OP.]

Maybe manager just decided to take the opportunity to lay off OP and will hire someone who manager feels more compatible with.

Grovel, OP.

OP, as someone who’s been through the same, I welcome you to the brotherhood but also, I say this with love: you’re PATHETIC! Why did you give your snake boss the satisfaction of seeing you in distress? Did you think he was going to come clean? He could have put you forward for the chop, himself. Get yourself together and pretend, in front of them, how you’re going on to better things. Lie, if you must.

I live as if I’m making 40K - just in case I’m laid off, and can live off of savings and unemployment until I can find work. I am also able to take a lower-paying job (if I must) because it will at least pay the bills. I also have no dependents.

OP, are you a family man/woman, and/or have a lot of debt and nothing saved up? Why panic over earning less than 6 figures?

R31 I didn’t know we still lived in the dark ages

Did you say you were telecommuting? I’ll bet it has everything to do with the lockdown. And I’m sure your not alone. They found out your job could be done from anywhere. And while 100k ain’t what it used to be, they can pick up an unemployed person for 60k. They will just change the title and find some desperate schmuck to take over.

You need to be that schmuck. I know these are my numbers, but you get it. They might go for 80k and retain someone who knows the job. But you have to sell it. Don’t act desperate. Be pleasant but focused. I agree with the poster who said it’s over. The firing is the difficult part for many. Who wants to have to go through that again.

But your interviewing right now. Didn’t you say your there through the end of the year? Well that’s your interview. You have to show you hold no grudge. Impress them with the mature way you handle the situation. I would follow up with HR armed with thoughtful questions about the separation.

So don’t grovel. In your situation that would be the worst thing to do. It would make them uncomfortable. At the same time you need them to respect how you look out for yourself. While I appreciate and reward loyal employees, I don’t respect them. I’m just one rung up and I take care of me first.

If retirement is close, make the case that you will be leaving soon enough and would be happy to train the new person and document all your SOPs. If they do that you have to be very careful about making the new person look incompetent. It will reflect on your training. Trip them up some other way.

Good luck. The world is not over and you probably have value you can broker in a new gig. All that can happen is they say no and your back where you started.

[quote]I don't understand why you're so mad at your boss. Why would he have any responsibility to level with you?

Umm, maybe because these asshole employers are always expecting us to be transparent and upfront with them, so it should go both ways.

To avoid heartbreak, disappointment, and postal feelings, I don't expect loyalty from anybody at work.

You’ll be fine. You’ll be glad you put away 8 months worth of savings for your rent/mortgage and other living expenses to cover a situation like this. Right?

[quote] R31 I didn’t know we still lived in the dark ages

Oh, the dark ages are always just around the corner, waiting to pounce once there’s enough apathy. Futile rage is apathy’s BFF.

I feel for you, Op. Your manager should of given you a heads up that there was a risk you may lose your job. Given the current environment you should also assume there was a risk of losing your job. My company has a state contract and doesn't anticipate any layoff's but I'm hearing about pay cuts and furlough's in other states. I've been through the process of losing a good paying job. It took me a long time to get my money back.

OP I am very sorry to hear it.

Also, another lesson that 85% of managers suck because 95% of corporations suck.

[quote]these asshole employers are always expecting us to be transparent and upfront with them, so it should go both ways.

It should, but it hasn't in this country since the Reagan presidency.

Large businesses and corporations are jumping on the opportunity to lay off unproductive, difficult, and expensive (i.e. aging) employees whom they really wanted to fire and replace prior to the pandemic, but did not for various reasons (legal, political, etc.) So if you were one of the more older or rebellious employees, OP, you were on shaky ground to begin with. And you certainly sound expensive.

Telecommuting has been revolutionized with sophisticated surveillance/productivity tracking software, and there’s a surprising amount of young talent in countries with lower costs of living: professionals in marketing, research, accounting, I.T.,etc. who speak fluent English and are willing be paid less than Americans and to be closely monitored online (randomly or constantly activated cameras and mics during the shift.)

Ironically, a few of my older ex-colleagues are teaching English to our future replacements in China now, and are treated with more respect by their elementary-aged students than by their former American corporate overloads. Are you willing to relocate, OP?

R30, i agree and w&w you. But it's hard to be in the grapevine with everyone WFH now, especially if you need to grapevine into a larger, peripherally related department.

The grapevine itself is probably not so juicy.

Anyone can be laid off at anytime, no feelings involved. Let's say the baseline is a 15% chance of a layoff any month. This year, I've prepped myself that it's 55% chance that someone in my office will get cut. I am mentally prepared myself.

R47 agree. If a company lays me off now, don't they have legal fears or other such fears too? Do you mean they will just use "covid has slowed down business" as a justified excuse if any laid-off smuck tried to sue?

[quote]these asshole employers are always expecting us to be transparent and upfront with them, so it should go both ways.

[quote]It should, but it hasn't in this country since the Reagan presidency.

Exactly. Workers’ rights are currently in the shitter, and there is mass Stockholm syndrome in the U.S. Prior to the Reagan administration, if you were to tell me that employers would one day be allowed to look up our credit histories, require us to pee in cups, and fire people at will, I would have laughed at your paranoia. Next thing you know, we’ll be chipped.

Yet the corporate goons require us to sign non-disclosure agreements and give them at least two weeks notice before taking a vacation or quitting. They are unyielding, but demand OUR complete acquiescence. What an amazing power dynamic.

Am I old fashioned, but why not contact his wife and say you're having an affair?

The wife knows her hubs (the boss) is a hot blooded hetero from the way he motorboards here and pounds her cooch.

I bet they would have kept you if you had a less filthy mouth, OP. Do you really kiss your mother with that thing? Yeesh.

OP, I sense that your position indeed “had funding into 2021,” BUT: for only 70k per year, due to a glut of workers - most straight out of universities or from far-away lands - who are skilled in your profession since they were all told by their parents, guidance counselors, and Fox News to pursue said career because of its shortage of qualified workers and resulting high income potential. Watch out - they will blow a donkey if it gets them YOUR job.

I feel sorry for you OP. I make a 6 figures as well and when you work your ass off to get to that stage just to have ripped out from under you, I imagine it's infuriating as well as devastating. My mother lives in another state and I take care of her financially as well as provide a debt card for my sister to my account in case she runs into any trouble ( she's a teacher and very responsible) but has had to use it before. This kinda responsibility weighs on me daily with this Corona shit still going on.

OP, you’ll be fine. You have pluck! Take the night off and think about it tomorrow.

OP here.

Get your kicks in, I'm not denying I could have handled my career path better.

I wrote my post a few minutes after talking to my managers so I was slightly pissed off. Still not a happy camper of course but I'm not steaming as much. If you've worked for a MegaCorp you may be familiar with the management setup. My manager on paper takes care of me administratively but also zero oversight or involvement in my daily work. I literally had two one on one conversations with her in 2 years--when she became my manager and today when she informed me I was being laid off. Otherwise, we would communicate via messaging and email only when administrative things popped up (sign off on data access, vacation requests, etc). Everyone involved works remotely across the country.

My daily manager is the guy I actually work with or in his view, for, on my job duties. On paper, he's just an employee like me. What cheeses me off is when he wants to lord it over me, he's my manager, I work FOR him and he'll have a chat with my admin manager if I step out of line. For performance reviews, the HR manager goes to him since she has zero involvement in my work. Anything good that happens is because he has a direct line to upper management. He also told me he had my back. He loves playing Big Man on Campus except when there are zero raises, tiny bonuses--then, he meekly says it's out of his hands. Or like today when he said he wasn't told because he's not really my manager. Yeah, so pardon me if I was a little bit peeved after 8 years of being dependent on his gracious benevolence and biting my tongue and when the shit hits the fan, he bows out with "I'm not really your manager."

So that set me off but you're all right, ultimately, it's not his fault--this is MegaCorp being MegaCorp. He'll probably get the ax sometime down the line when they find someone cheaper to do his job.

R49 - To be fair, this is strictly anecdotal, based on what I’ve seen first-hand at certain organizations, so I’m extrapolating maybe too much? However, based on the odds, each of these companies would be sued through the roof by at least one ex-employee for discrimination, since each has diverse team members who have grumbled about unfair treatment in the past. A sudden layoff under most circumstances would ignite litigation. But not COVID-19!

Also, the telecommuting situation makes it so much easier to initiate a mass layoff without danger of violence, harassment or theft of property (intellectual or otherwise) or corporate sabotage. Access to the networks are blocked during the typical adios spiel via teleconference. It’s creepy. I feel bad for the I.T. staff burdened with retrieving laptops from angry/traumatized employees.

OP addressing some other bits brought up:

I'm okay financially. I grew up poor so saving and investing for security and retirement is pretty much ingrained. The break in employment crimps the retirement planning. I have enough cash for more than a year of unemployment. Like R55, I also assist my family. It's not a huge burden financially but I fret about not being able to help.

This is the only job where I've made good money. All my other jobs were in nonprofit and education and I had a very modest nest egg at 40. I stuck with this job because I figured it was time I started to earn and sock away for retirement. There isn't an inheritance or fancy family heirlooms in my future.

OP, are you single? Do you have love in your life? If so, hopefully that can help balance out the professional stress you're under right now. Best of luck to you.

OP: this is Datalounge so you know to expect the cuntery. But I'm not here to pile on. I'm in my 30s and I have been through THREE layoffs myself. I know what it feels likes and I know that sometimes you just need to vent. I will say, I'm now in a very stable job that I enjoy, managing the largest team I've had and making the best salary in my history. I wouldn't have gotten this opportunity were it not for my last layoff in 2016. But, in between that layoff and this new job which I started in 2018, I humbled myself and took some lower paying work to keep the lights on. You'll figure it out. Good luck!

OP Do you know anyone in the drug trade you could hook up with and shadow about till developing your own 'following' ? I can say, I've supported a few in the past.

It’s daunting, having career advancement for years or decades, and then suddenly being the target of ageism in the workplace/job market after believing hard work and merit alone were the keys to success rather than other advantages like: who you know; how attractive you are; your level of obedience; your gender, skin color, etc. Just having a feminine or “black-sounding” name is enough to get the door slammed on one’s fingers at the resume stage. Well, the same goes for a degree earned in the 80s or 90s.

I’d bet anything that Madame Lafarge and other posters piling on OP work in government and/or academia, blissfully unaware of the fact that once tax dollars/tuition money earned in the private sector dry up, they’ll be out on their asses, too.

R64 I work for a small, private business that deals with the majors. It’s nothing like academia or a government job. I have a front row view of what happens in MegaCorps like the one hapless OP worked for, and have seen complete departments wiped out in one stroke of a pen and sourced overseas. One victim - a cancer survivor - worked at MegaCorp for 20+ years and was left with no income, no health insurance, and a scant IRA. Too old and poor health history to find another job. Faithful bee’s loyalty and hard work did not count one bit.

Why is everyone acting like 100k is SO... MUCH money? I understand that there are cheaper areas to live in this country outside of the coasts/cities but besides housing & taxes everything is pretty much the same cost wherever, no? 100k does not go very far these days.

R68 Maybe you’ll lose your job one day and be stuck with a job that pays half that and you’ll figure out how other people make it work.

R69 Did you not factor in the cocaine and rent boys?

R64 I am self employed for 30 years, so your theory is wrong. I wasn't piling on OP, I was snarky about corporate drones because they are the types that have no idea what life is like off of the corporate tit and usually (in my experience) are the type of Trumpanzees that live in suburbia, drive SUV's and consistently vote GOP. They are just as bad or worse than the gun-toting, screeching assholes marching on state capitals. I've known people like R65 friend who were screwed by corporate employers. I hope OP lands on his feet and remembers this experience. Workers whether white collar or blue collar are screwed without a union in the absence of the astonishing lack of government labor policy regarding workers' rights or enforcement thereof.

OP, are you still laid off? Get cracking. I want to see a paycheck by July 1, or it’s the boot!

Holy F**k R25, R64 and R71!!! It's NOT Madame LaFarge - it's Madame Defarge.

[quote] R65: Too old and poor health history to find another job. Faithful bee’s loyalty and hard work did not count one bit.

Oh, yeah. “Loyalty” to your employer should be limited to not stealing the office supplies. Every employee should do whatever best benefits his or her personal needs without regard to the consequences to their employer when it comes to switching jobs to improve your income or career prospects; and maximizing your use of your benefits.

I did once repeatedly postpone a class that my employer was insisting I take at company expense, since I knew I was leaving the company soon, and I thought it would personally reflect poorly on my boss if I took the class and then immediately left the company, but that was an exception to the above. I have seen a number of people do exactly that with training classes, and it always seemed to me to be across the line.

I have had a few employers where my bosses were good people, and I’m not suggesting or justifying “cutthroat” behavior. I had a few bosses in particular who were demanding but generous and decent people. They really made my career and retirement possible. But when your career is concerned, you have to chart your own course.

Sorry OP. You’ll find another job, hang in there

Maybe I wasn't referring to Dickens. R73 Sorry Gramps

Back to "work" this morning. I'd love for my non manager to tell me to focus on looking for a new job but since we are two man team soon to be one, he's going get me to finish as much work as possible before I go.

A friend was surprised I wasn't let go immediately and got a month's notice. I wonder if that would have been better. I have zero motivation to do anything or have interactions with anyone at the company. Other than not burn any bridges.

It’s Madame DeBarge

I don't think it matters who knew what and when at this point,OP. Everything is pushed back,everything is up in the air,everything is on hold. Take care of yourself in the best way you know how.

Is there hiring going on now in your field?

Its quite shitty to get shit canned and yet be expected to work another month. It's going to take some backbone to rise above this and go out OK. I'm sorry.

Just talked to my non manager and he's looking for ways to keep me around. Either with another department or as a contractor. Shitty thing is he said it's not even a cost issue. As I mentioned already, we have revenue set for the next couple of years and I have never been a negative cost because my team is always profitable. He said executives needed to cut headcount and I was a number. They figure my work can be redistributed to others and still keep the profits up. He said he wasn't consulted and therefore couldn't tell them my work can't be farmed out around the world at cheaper cost. Or it can be, but it won't be pretty.

I have another call with the admin manager later this week and I wondered what it was about. Now I see, it's likely to start the process of farming out my work.

And yes, in the back of my mind, I'm still wary the non manager is blowing smoke up my ass to keep me from burning a decade's worth of work and records before I leave...So I'm trying to keep my cards close...but I can see why he would be genuinely interested in keeping me around. Even if it's 100% self-interest. He cannot do the work on his own and he doesn't want to slow walk all the newbies for the next year or two to get them up to speed.

The problem is your going to need your old as a reference. Otherwise, I'd do EXACTLY what you mentioned. Start a bonfire!

OP/ R81 If it’s a numbers (of employees) issue and not a cost issue, why did they lay YOU off instead of one or more of the other workers that your tasks are being redistributed to? Your “non-manager” is an unreliable narrator.

stay there if you must but finally you need a new employer and fresh start. I'm sorry OP. What a pile of shit to have to deal with.

I would have felt better if they had told me it was a money issue.

OP, I was told it was because you smell. Feel better?

Seriously, the economy is a mess. I did read what all you wrote, but still, don’t take it personal. It’s a bloodbath out there.

I'm down to 2 weeks and my non manager manager is still sending new work my way. He dangled the possibility of contract work but I suspect it may be a long shot. In any case, I'm resentful I'm working as if nothing happened when I know others have been given the period to wrap up and move on. I can't tell him to fuck off because I don't want to burn bridges and there's the slight chance of contract work.

You are being big about this. I do hope you can put that company behind you and not be obliged to have anything to do with them out of financial need. I hope you get another job, in other words.

OP, it appears that you were laid-off years ago- and no one told us.

R89, reminds me to pop into the office and take the stapler when I clear out my desk.

Talked--agreed that I would not work on new projects--only wrap things up, look for new job.

OP you can have my shitty job if you want to be driven crazy every day the entire time.

I'd just look for new opportunities. Hanging on and begging for dear life never looked good on anyone.

It's like a bandaid. Just rip the damn thing off and move on with your life.

All the jobs I "thought" I couldn't be fired from or leave for greener pastures all don't seem too big of a deal now. I've never looked back except for my job prior to my current, it was heaven for so many reasons - but I knew it wouldn't last forever. Nothing does in the year 2020.

Good luck OP.

R92, we talked and agreed I would only now wrap things up and focus on job searching. There was the specter of contract work but he mentioned talking to upper management about how it only delays the inevitable and that I would leave as soon as I find a permanent job and they would have to scramble again to find someone. I think he wanted me to reassure him but I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it and I couldn't lie. I think that's why he switched from work as normal to go ahead and use your remaining time to look for a job.

A part of me wishes I had finessed the contractor commitment better, but, yes, a part of me is relieved to just move on.