Vanessa Redgrave's Oscar Win-the most dramatic Supporting Actress win ever

Her win wasn't dramatic because there was NO competition, but her politicized speech was dramatic. Cher, on the other hand, was up against some terrific performances, and gave a pretty standard acceptance speech.

Vanessa Redgrave – Julia

Leslie Browne – The Turning Point

Quinn Cummings – The Goodbye Girl

Melinda Dillon – Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Tuesday Weld – Looking for Mr. Goodbar

The odd thing about this clip is (it is the official academy version) is that when she says the stuff about the zionist hoodlums the camera is on some woman who looks like Rhea Pearlman. I've seen the unedited version and the camera is on a blank looking Goldie Hawn at that moment.

I wonder why the Academy altered it.

Comrade Vanessa made an ass of herself with her extreme political views in front of millions of people. She should have saved the propaganda clap-trap for after the ceremony but common sense has never been her greatest virtue. Nothing like cancelling out your win with a self- imposed stupid mistake.

Oh, fuck off, R3. She enlivened a tedious Oscar night and what she said was correct.

LOVE her.

I should have been nominated and should have won.

And I would have saved you from this mess.

You're damn right, Donna.

Karen Lynn Gorney might have something to say about that.

R2 I think you answered your own question. As far as Goldie goes the lights are on but there's nobody home - they probably thought how dim she looked and best to remove a shot that would be ridiculed years later.

Who might be Hawn's present-day equivalent?

^^ Amy Poehler

I always assumed Goldie was pissed, not in her own world.

Except Karen sucked r7, couldn't dance. I stole that movie away from her!

R1, that is a pretty embarrassing field and Redgrave probably won in a landslide, even as controversial as she was. The rest are mediocre, sometimes because of the performance, sometimes because of the role.

They could have nominated Joan Blondell for Opening Night or Sissy Spacek for 3 Women instead.

OP - this thread wouldn't be complete without this clip that followed..... Mr. Paddy Cheyefsky

I never really get the acclaim for Redgrave in Julia. She's barely in it. Just the one scene at the lunch basically.

They were initially going to cast an unknown in the part considering the size of the role. Meryl flew to London for a final audition and then suddenly found out they went with a star (and she was given a small role I guess as a consolation.)

R13 Sissy Spacek was co-lead in 3 Women. She and Duvall should have both been nominated in the lead category instead of Bancroft and MacLaine.

Vanessa's speech was shocking at the time. Apparently when asked what he thought of the speech Jack Nicholson replied (clearly jokingly) "What are Zionists? Reds or what?"

She brings her purse to the stage. What a frau move.

My favorite clip of her, dancing with a gun over her head (at the 3:40 mark).

I was reading about this incident, since OP didn't give any context to what was being said. I'm very disappointed at the hypocrisy of Paddy Chayefsky criticizing her political standing. A guy who made his career doing the same.

I think she was brave. As I understood she made a documentary on the mistreatment of Palestinians and zionists planted bombs on the theaters showing it.

What an embarrassment for Mr. Chaiefsky lost all my respect for this douche bootlicker.

In addition to the lunch scene, there is the scene where she recites a Robert Herrick poem, and the scene in the Vienna hospital, both unforgettable. A year earlier, Beatrice Straight won for "Network", in which she appeared for 6 minutes.

R19 I saw a clip from that film that Vanessa made and she was holding up a fucking machine gun dancing around in a circle with a bunch of guys all holding their guns above their heads! For fucks sake Vanessa! Talk about BAD judgement.

I love her as an actress and as a person. I didn't have any problems with the speech. But I acknowledge she is one of those rich privileged people who really doesn't understand what the real world is like. She is far from alone in this but she is a classic example of white privilege. I am sure she is a lovely person, intelligent, etc but with the streets smarts of a baby deer.

Ellen Burstyn was once nominated for an Emmy for a role in an HBO movie where she appears for 10 seconds in a flashback sequence. She was shocked when informed and commented that she didn't even know she had been put up for nomination. She then said she next hopes to be nominated for a film that she doesn't appear in at all!

The people in the audience didn't like her, they really, really didn't like her.

Vanessa's a world class narcissist. They're all idiots.

At a dinner once, Vanessa was asked what she thought of Bill Clinton when she met him. "The important thing, darling," she replied, "is what he thought of ME"

Her daughter Natasha then said, "See what I have to live with?"

R24 Poor Natasha. I didn't realise it when she was alive (I watched The Comfort of Strangers again the other week for the fist time since its release) but she had the same laugh as Vanessa. You can hear Vanessa in Natasha's and Joely's voices and Joely looks more like Vanessa but every time Natasha laughed it was Vanessa's laugh. So so sad what happened to Natasha. And the pain Vanessa must have gone through and will until she dies must be unbearable.

There were rumours that Liam cheated on Natasha on a regular basis and Vanessa never approved of him but after Natasha's death they became closer.

Agreed, R19. Paddy Chayefsky was a huge blowhard and he made his living being one. All bombast and hot air.

She's damn right. Love her. Great actress. I met her once. Very focused. Lovely blue eyes.

[quote]that is a pretty embarrassing field and Redgrave probably won in a landslide, even as controversial as she was. The rest are mediocre, sometimes because of the performance, sometimes because of the role

I disagree. With the exception of Leslie Browne, they were all good.

Who pissed Jane Fonda off that night? She was cold towards Janet Gaynor and then gave an icy glare to the camera when her name was read.

Janet made a pass at Jane in the ladies room at rehearsal.

Jane always brought her little kids to the ceremony yet she admits she was kind of a neglectful mother.

her hat hair is a bit strange didn't the PLO have a stylist?

Joan Blondell should have been nominated for Opening Night.

[quote] Paddy Chayefsky was a huge blowhard and he made his living being one. All bombast and hot air.

Pauline Kael's epic takedown of Chayefsky's "Network" pretty much said the same thing about him. His politics were all over the place in his work (sometimes he sounds like a libertarian, other times a lefty crank), but I'm sure if he were alive today, he'd be one of those a neoconservative Bill Kristol-type.

[quote]I'm very disappointed at the hypocrisy of Paddy Chayefsky criticizing her political standing. A guy who made his career doing the same.

He's not talking about her career. He's talking about her bringing it up during an Academy awards speech. It's apples and oranges.

[quote]I think she was brave. As I understood she made a documentary on the mistreatment of Palestinians and zionists planted bombs on the theaters showing it.

But she won for Julia. She didn't win for the documentary on Palestine. He just thought there was a time and a place for that kind of speech. And it wasn't an appropriate time to make it.

Jane Fonda had a similar attitude when she accepted for Klute. It wasn't the right moment to discuss Vietnam. Especially for a movie that had nothing to do with the war.

I'm not saying he's right. But he wasn't trying to say she had no right at all to her opinions.

Agreed: that is the most heinous haircut she ever had. She is now one of those people who look great with white hair.

R34, I don’t agree with your premise that it’s inappropriate to bring up politics in an Oscars speech if the topic is unrelated to the film. It can be a great opportunity to bring light to issues.

She gave another memorable performance in a small role the previous year in "The Seven-Per-Cent Solution". Great cast across the board in that movie, but no nominations in a very competitive year.

R35 Comrade Vanessa now has the face that she deserves.

Comrade Vanessa is 83 years old and looks great, though aged. Her bone structure has stood her in good stead.

"He's not talking about her career. He's talking about her bringing it up during an Academy awards speech. It's apples and oranges."

And to make his point he... made a speech during the Academy Awards. But he is a man and pro-Jewish so no one called him on it.

[quote] He's not talking about her career. He's talking about her bringing it up during an Academy awards speech. It's apples and oranges.

It's not apple and oranges, the fact she wasn't running for the documentary is irrelevant. What's relevant is that she was being a target of terrorist threats at this very award, why wouldn't she bring it up on stage? Paddy is a typical hypocrite, who would use the stage to boast about his mediocre understanding of politics as someone already pointed out, but who's mad at this woman's standing because she's criticizing his people.

Just another example of double standard by a blowhard narcissist.

R34 is your typical subservient bootlicker doormat. If an award broadcasted to the entire world isn't the right moment to protest a senseless war or terrorist threats to one's freedom of expression, I don't know what is.

Vanessa's talent as an actress can't really be argued. That aside, I've always admired her bravery and willingness to speak what she believes. In terms of outspoken humanitarian interests and pursuits, Mia Farrow is her American equivalent, and is similarly controversial. Their respective flaws aside, I truly believe that both of them care very much about people, and both have put their money where their mouth is, unlike most celebrity "activists." In any case, the pearl-clutching gasps of horror from the audience were ridiculous—the equivalent of contemporary social justice warrior outrage from idiots with selective hearing.

" the pearl-clutching gasps of horror from the audience were ridiculous"

Watching it now, yeah! But back then, it was a big deal.

R42 “broadcasted”? People who lived in glass houses shouldn’t throwed stones.

^^I meant to add, Vanessa's win was completely expected. And lots of publicity leading up to the Awards had people speculating if she'd say anything once she won, most hoping she would not. They kept citing Fonda's acceptance speech for Klute as an example, hoping Redgrave would follow suit. She did not.

R42 So you're saying Jane Fonda was a doormat for her Klute speech as well, right?

I called the poster a doormat for denying people the right to speak up at the awards.

Wasn't there supposed to be people outside the venue protesting and that is what she was referencing as much as threats she had received leading up to the awards day?

[quote] “broadcasted”? People who lived in glass houses shouldn’t throwed stones.

Though not as common, broadcasted is grammatically correct. I'm surprised an anal-retentive grammar nazi doesn't know that.

If Vanessa would have kept her mouth shut about making inflammatory remarks then she wouldn't have gotten death threats. She's a typical extremist, going over the top, and then becoming a crashing bore after awhile.

R49, Zionists were protesting outside the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion with signs calling her "Whore of the Palestinians" and burning her in effigy. She had to have a bodyguard with her. Small surprise she felt the need and desire, after that, to say something. So fuck you, R51.

"She enlivened a tedious Oscar night and what she said was correct."

You're an ass. She used the Academy Awards to promote her twisted political agenda. She behaved like a cunt. And what actually "enlivened" the show was Paddy Chayefsky calling the bitch out on her nasty speech: "I’m sick and tired of people exploiting the occasion of the Academy Awards for the propagation of their own personal political propaganda", also stating that her win "is not a pivotal moment in history and a simple ‘Thank you’ would have sufficed.” He was right.

HATE her.

A brave woman. It took stones to call out Israel and their apartheid policies when she did. Today it would have gone down much differently.

R53=Zionist sympathizer.

LOVE her.

Fuck you, you Zionist loving cunt. Chayefsky was a right-wing asshole, very apparent by his shitty Network screenplay.

John Travolta is nearly as tall as Vanessa and she's wearing heels.

Go suck the PLO supporter Vanessa Redgrave's withered clam, R55. By the way, Paddy Chayefsky won an Oscar for his "shitty" Newwork screenplay. You are truly moronic.

R57 thinks winning an Oscar certifies one's brilliance. Who's a moron?

You are, you fucking Zionist-loving gash.

R57, CRASH won the Best Picture Oscar. Enough said about Oscar's infallibility in choosing the best.

R53 Completely correct. She was obviously anti-Jewish and simply a self-willing, stupid pawn for the devious Palestinians, their leaders, and their violent tactics.

She's probably had an undiagnosed mental ailment all these years. Normal she ain't.

I remember watching this as a kid, it freaked me out, because I didn’t understood a damn thing.

R60 is some douche who thinks if you have any issue with Israel's atrocious policies then you're an anti-Semite.

Redgrave gave a brilliant performance playing the Jewish Auschwitz survivor Fania Fenelon and won an Emmy around 1980. That's how much of "anti-Semite" Redgrave is. Every frame of that movie shows her compassion and empathy.

She was protesting Israel and fucked up Zionists. She was right.

"Mia Farrow is her American equivalent, and is similarly controversial."

This is laughable. She's controversial because she collects children and is a grade A media troll who has made a career off of accusing Woody Allen of abuse. She has her cause celebs but with not with the consistency or conviction of Redgrave.

Anti Israeli government does not equal anti Jew. How many times do you need to hear that, r60, before it gets in your little brain. Many of us who are anti Israeli government are Jewish. We just oppose human right violations, we oppose genocide, and we oppose racist policies within Israel. We all believe Israel has a right to exist, and celebrate the fact that it does exist

R58, take your "Zionist" shit and shove it really, really hard up your ass. Redgrave wholeheartedly supported the PLO, a terrorist organization that vowed to destroy Israel. Redgrave made an absolute fool of herself dancing around with a machine gun (presumably used to shoot at Jews); the pathetic display was shown on a 60 Minutes segment about her. The woman is an insane cunt. And you LOVE her? How m moronic.

And actually, Paddy Chayefsky's "Network" has been characterized as a "brilliant satire" and as one reviewer put it "the Chayefsky script, with its crisp jargon and its fast-flowing comedy, interrupted by those arias of self-revelation and moments of heart-stopping compassion that are this writer’s hallmark, is remarkably rich in itself, as well as in comparison to the aridity of most screenwriting." Sounds deserving of an Oscar to me. I guess you wouldn't think so, but then you're really stupid.

"CRASH won the Best Picture Oscar. Enough said about Oscar's infallibility in choosing the best."

No, "Crash" didn't deserve to win. But "Network" did. The movie is a classic and so prophetic. One article stated " 1976, Chayevsky and Lumet’s bleak view of television’s crassness and irresponsibility was deeply shocking. But the scary thing about re-watching Network today is that even its wildest flights of fancy no longer seem outrageous at all. The film was so accurate in its predictions that its most far-fetched satirical conceits have become so familiar as to be almost quaint."

Jews can be anti-Zionist. That bitch is full on communist twat.

Kick granny in the Cunt for that stunt.

I feel sorry for Liam Neeson. At least his wife escaped that horrible bitch by dying.

Jews can be anti-Zionist. That bitch is full on communist twat.

Kick granny in the Cunt for that stunt.

I feel sorry for Liam Neeson. At least his wife escaped that horrible bitch by dying.

Vanessa Redgrave was doing a play at the Public Theatre in NYC. After every performance, she would stand in the lobby with a bucket asking for donations for the PLO.

Jane Fonda's folly was crossing over to Hanoi and posing with the Communist enemies during the very controversial Vietnam war which she later apologized for.

Vanessa Redgrave has been anti-capitalist and was reported to even referring to people on movie sets as "comrade". Dancing with a gun over her head and supporting Palestinian leaders with their war-like tactics was her Jane Fonda moment, along with the anti-capitalist training sessions, all of which she has never apologized for. She's just plain too batshit crazy to. She made Jane Fonda look like a Girl Scout.

[quote]Before the Socialist Workers party, there was the Workers Revolutionary party. Thousands went to its rallies in the 70s, drawn by the presence of Vanessa Redgrave and her late brother, Corin. The party was nothing more than a vehicle that promoted the regimes of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi – for money – and supplied a stream of women for its supreme leader, Gerry Healy, to enjoy. It fell apart in 1986 when 26 women came forward to describe the "gross sexual abuse" they had suffered at his hands. In a poignant account that has stayed with me, one exhausted party worker described how she realised that she had wasted her life the moment Healy loomed over her.

[quote]"He was not listening to a word I was saying. He wanted only one thing from me, my sexual submission. Something inside of me snapped... It was as if everything I believed in was proved in one, revealing second to be false, lies. I, my husband, my children, my comrades had sacrificed so much, had worked so hard for this... animal."

[quote]Whenever arts journalists praise Vanessa and Corin Redgrave's "political commitment", I wait for them to explain precisely what their politics entailed. They never do and the silence of the liberal mainstream about the far left is one reason why abuse has flourished. But it's not flourishing now. After all these years, members of the SWP have discovered they have minds of their own and revolted in defence of the rights of women.

. . .

Actually R66, Pauline Kael, preeminent film critic of the 20th century (and Jewish, not that it matters) mocked NETWORK and Chayefsky, labelling her review "Hot Air," saying, "[Chayefsky] is like a Village crazy bellowing at you: blacks are taking over, revolutionaries retaking over, women are taking over. He's got the New York hatreds, and ranting makes him feel alive."

So much for consensus of opinion on Chayefsky's "brilliance."

[quote]Vanessa Redgrave has been anti-capitalist

All the while becoming excessively wealthy.

Both Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave were the same. Grew up in theater families. Never had to struggle. Never had to accept responsibility for whatever ideology they practiced. It's easy to be Communist when you have money in the bank and a secure safety net.

"Redgrave gave a brilliant performance playing the Jewish Auschwitz survivor Fania Fenelon and won an Emmy around 1980. That's how much of "anti-Semite" Redgrave is. Every frame of that movie shows her compassion and empathy."

Boy, are YOU out of touch with reality. There was controversy about Redgrave's casting in that movie, and rightly so. The character she played was a 24 year old, short, dark haired, dark eyed, Jewish woman who was a cabaret singer. Redgrave was tall, blonde, blue eyed, had no singing talent and supported the PLO. It was stunt casting; it garnered a lot of publicity. By the way, idiot, playing a Jew doesn't automatically make one NOT an anti-Semite. Redgrave is an actress; she gets paid to pretend she's somebody else. Just cause she played a Jew doesn't mean she LIKES them.

I watched some of that "Playing for Time" but didn't watch the whole thing because it was so mediocre. And Redgrave's performance was far from "brilliant." It was mediocre, too. The production got undeserved praise and Redgrave got an undeserved Emmy. I think the film got awards because the Academy voters thought it would be nice to give awards to a Holocaust drama.

The woman Redgrave played in the film, Fania Fenelon, didn't like the production. Linda Yellen filmed Playing for Time using as script a dramatic adaptation by Arthur Miller. Fénelon bitterly opposed Miller's and Yellen's purportedly sanitized rendition of life in the camps and above all Yellen's casting of Vanessa Redgrave to play her. Redgrave was a well-known PLO sympathizer and, standing close to six feet tall, bore little resemblance to the petite Fania. "I do not accept a person to play me who is the opposite of me ... I wanted Liza Minnelli. She's small, she's full of life, she sings and dances. Vanessa ... doesn't have a sense of humor, and that is the one thing that saved me from death in the camp", Fénelon said. She scolded Redgrave in person during a 60 Minutes interview but the actress garnered the support of the acting community. Fénelon never forgave Redgrave, but eventually softened her view of the production to concede that it was "a fair film".

R69 The typical work of an extremist who can't leave her political views at home and insists on thrusting them on everyone.

R67/R68, you're a ranting old cunt repeating yourself. Hilarious that all the Zionist gashes come out of their deplorable holes to go after someone as brilliant Redgrave. Nothing changes with these old fucking cunts.

Pamela Geller, that Zionist, racist wide-open gash, is the big heroine of the last several posters.

This is THEIR. girl!

Thanks, I'll take Vanessa any day. A least she has talent.

"Actually [R66], Pauline Kael, preeminent film critic of the 20th century (and Jewish, not that it matters) mocked NETWORK and Chayefsky, labelling her review "Hot Air," saying, "[Chayefsky] is like a Village crazy bellowing at you: blacks are taking over, revolutionaries retaking over, women are taking over. He's got the New York hatreds, and ranting makes him feel alive."

So much for consensus of opinion on Chayefsky's "brilliance."

Pauline Kael was not the end-all and be-all of film comment, you dumbfuck. I've heard the word "brilliant" applied to the work of Paddy Chayefsky many times. He won three Oscars. You're an idiot.

R76

Nessy, you’re a cunt.

A miserable cunt.

Your daughter committed suicide by skiing because you were such a fucking cunt.

R74 is reading with old, bitter, us-ridden prejudices against Redgrave. How hilarious.

By the way, none of what you describe about the movie or its reception is at all true. Fenelon , by the way, was the subject of disparaging remarks by the other women in the camp who said she distorted the truth about what they al went through.

As for you, R77, talk about a dumbfuck: yet another rube who thinks winning an Oscar certifies brilliance. Halle Barry, Helen Hunt...I could go on. What a fucking hack you are.

*pus-ridden prejudices

I remember the pro-Israel fanatics protesting every day when she did Driving With Miss Daisy in 2010. My boyfriend at the time commented that it would have been funny if he had worn a pro Palestine shirt to the play. Palestinians still exist, and they’re still horribly treated and killed. Where’s the international outrage?

[quote]The character she played was a 24 year old, short, dark haired, dark eyed, Jewish woman who was a cabaret singer.

I thought she played down her Jewish roots. Her father was Jewish, her mother Catholic. I think there's a moment in the play where someone calls her "jew shit" and she replies, "We're not Jew shit, we're French."

"Fenelon , by the way, was the subject of disparaging remarks by the other women in the camp who said she distorted the truth about what they al went through."

You're dissing a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR? Are you an anti-Semite like your cunt Vanessa Redgrave, too?

"Talk about a dumbfuck: yet another rube who thinks winning an Oscar certifies brilliance."

Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Don't you know that? No, I guess you don't. You're not very bright.

R83, I wasn't dissing a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR. HER FELLOW HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS WERE. You dumb cunt.

Wow, R84--that's your reposte? Talk about being not very bright.

R78=gash Zionist Pamela Geller.

Israel is a terrorist state that bulldozes the homes of Palestinians and moves them into concentration camps. Vanessa was right.

The producers, Bob Hope and the network supposedly felt someone had to say something about what had happened with Redgrave so they asked Paddy to do it.

Meryl tells the story of how she never met Redgrave while they were making Julia except for one day when they were put in the same car to drive to a set. Meryl wanted to tell Redgrave how much she admired her acting but Redgrave lectured her about Trotsky for the whole drive over and that was all they talked about.

[quote]Israel is a terrorist state that bulldozes the homes of Palestinians and moves them into concentration camps.

No, Arabs force Palestinians into camps. Abbas won't let Palestinians move out of the Balata camp in the West Bank. Lebanon won't let them buy real estate or work in many professions.

"Israel is a terrorist state that bulldozes the homes of Palestinians and moves them into concentration camps. Vanessa was right."

You sound like an anti-Semite. Just like Vanessa Redgraves. Cunts.

Israel does exactly that, R91. It's been proven. If you support that, you're a Zionist gash.

" I wasn't dissing a HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR. HER FELLOW HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS WERE. You dumb cunt."

Your comment was indeed an attempt to disparage her, because she said some not so nice (but true) things about your anti-Semite idol Vanessa Redgrave. You moronic cunt.

Actually, it's being kind to say you're not very bright. You're a retarded, mentally defective, anti-Semitic piece of dogshit. I think that puts it succinctly.

"Israel does exactly that, [R91]. It's been proven. If you support that, you're a Zionist gash."

"Zionist gash?" You sound, well, loony. No wonder you like Vanessa Redgrave. She's got some screws loose, too.

Link, please, r92. The camps are in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan and Lebanon.

Allow mw to educate you, silly STUPID Zionist gash R93, on Fenelon:

"Playing for Time the movie, and the memoir upon which it is based, have assumed an important place in Holocaust scholarship. Since its publication and tremendous commercial success, Fénelon's testimony has been accepted as truth and widely dispersed in a plethora of academic, popular, and musical resources. This has proved a source of great frustration and heartache for the other survivors of the orchestra, who almost unanimously found Fania's representation of their orchestra and its personnel false and demeaning. They have fought a fierce battle in the decades since Playing for Time appeared to have their version of the orchestra and its history represented. Some attention has been paid to their concerns, but in large part they have been ignored. The greatest sources of anguish are the supposed inaccurate portrayal of Alma Rosé, the alleged slanderous portrayals of many of the other musicians, and the portrayed diminishment by Fénelon of their bond and support for one another."

[quote] She is far from alone in this but she is a classic example of white privilege.

You mean limousine liberal.

R90, to state Israel is not the persecutor of the Paletinians is a complete lie.

R97, Redgrave has given so much money away to political causes that she lives in a simple flat in London and claims she can never stop working because she needs the money. Her choice, granted, but she is NOT a limousine liberal.

R2, Also missing from that clip is the audience reaction shot, while Redgrave was speaking, that showed Barbara Stanwyck glaring at her from her seat.

for a while she lived with Liam Neeson and his sons when they were young

R101, He was her son-in-law.

Well, this thread turned out a lot less fun than Cher’s.

R100, I've seen that clip. Stanwyck was not glaring at her. She was gazing at her. You're vastly reading into her look. I recall it quite well. She's appraising her, not giving her the stink eye.

I can assure you Stanwyck did not give a shit about Zionists or Palestinians that she would glare at Redgrave.

[quote]for a while she lived with Liam Neeson

I wonder if she ever got a glimpse of his humongous manhood.

At least we aren't discussing the wig I was forced to wear in Julia. The director sent me a letter of apology you know.

[R73], I can't speak for Vanessa Redgrave, but I believe your claim that Jane Fonda didn't take responsibility for her actions is unfair. She worked with Vietnam vets extensively. She also did took other actions to show her sincerity about the hurt and outrage her trip to Vietnam caused.

I for one have always felt somebody or somebodies, set her up, in order to destroy her acting career. No, I have no proof. It's simply a sense I have.

R73 is also a fool to state Fonda was a Communist. And she certainly made amends, or tried to, over the years with Vietnam vets.

R73 is just a garden-variety shit stirrer.

People have gone to jail for less than what Jane Fonda did. What about that soldier that claimed he tried to hand her a message to take back to the US and she just handed it over to his captors?

Absolute lie, R110. Here's a refutation of that lie by people who were there.

And R110, here's Snope's also saying that's a lie.

R93

Israel and the Islamists are BOTH CUNTS!

IDF = terrorists

I wish she was my Psychiatrist!

Remember when Mike Wallace tried to corner Redgrave about this incident in a 60 Minutes interview, and she shut his ass down.

Mike Wallace was such a yellow journalist hack: first, his "documentary" on "the homosexuals," then trying to get the best of Streisand and Callas, then Redgrave.

What a low-rent.

Noshing before the tears.

Is that Paul Sand sitting next to Melinda Dillon?

yes r119

Paul Sand and Melinda Dillon were in the improv group that also had Valerie Harper, Mary Frann and others.

Oops!

OP - Congratulations. You must be so happy. I truly didn't think this thread would last the evening, but just a little over 25 hours and you've already passed the 120 reply mark.

Of course, it's mostly just two queens bitch-fighting, but a win is a win!

I'm half Jewish and my grandparents, one of whom was born in Israel in a kibbutz, are staunch anti zionists, many socialist jews are.

R117 I won't wade into this debate except to comment about what an overrated smarmy asshole Mike Wallace was. And his son, the Fox news anchor is even worse.

R63 You might be interest to know but Mia Farrow & Vanessa Redgrave are close friends.

R126 What makes you say Vanessa and Farrow are close friends?

They may have shared a stage in 1971 and 1998 but Vanessa —as much as I love her for all her earnest eccentricities— has been quite undiscriminating and appeared in lots of money-making trash over the last six decades.

R116 she wrecked him in two sentences. You can see the defeat in his face at the 4:00 mark. Vanessa is far more intelligent than he ever was, and he was a fool to think he could pull a fast "You hate Jews like me!" one on her.

Kate Jackson in Making Love was robbed!

The way she dropped the plate!

The sadness Claire felt knowing that the man she ever loved could NOT love her back.

She was like a dramatic version of Grace Adler.

Seriously, I thought she was great.

Got to meet her and her amazing sister Lynn together at the Broadway Cares Equity Fight Aids Annual Flea Market. I have "Julia" on DVD signed by Vanessa and "Gods And Monsters" signed by Lynn.

R127 Mia and Natasha became firm friends whilst making Widow's Peak. The Redgraves have been very supportive of Mia!

[quote]I called the poster a doormat for denying people the right to speak up at the awards.

And what part of "I'm not saying he was right" did you not get?

Idiot.

"Vanessa is far more intelligent than he ever was, and he was a fool to think he could pull a fast "You hate Jews like me!" one on her."

No "intelligent" human being lets herself be filmed prancing around with a machine gun to show her support of terrorists who want to kill Jews. In fact, anyone who would do that would have to be stupid as hell.

R133, no "intelligent" human being supports anyone who has so little respect for Palestinians.

Hey, she married him.

[quote]What about that soldier that claimed he tried to hand her a message to take back to the US and she just handed it over to his captors?

That has been a rumor for decades, it has not been proven to be a fact.

Bingo R134. I think her point has always been that any human who is suffering or oppressed is worthy of compassion, end of story. It is not a black-and-white issue; it's an issue of a group of people being treated poorly, and the people of Palestine have in fact been subjugated and abused. Jewish Zionists do not allow a multi-faceted perspective on this, though—you are either with them or against them. Vanessa was correct to point out the irony of a group of historically persecuted people persecuting and ghettoizing another.

R136, see R112. Not only is it not a fact about Fonda, it was proven to be false by Snopes.com.

R138 I'm a fan of the idiosyncratic Vanessa but not of the coarse-voiced Jane Fonda. I've consulted the IMDB and found out that I paid good money to see four of her movies back in the 60s but NONE since then.

I don't know about her Hanoi hi-jinks but I remember her tactlessly expressing her anger that Burt Lancaster was too sick to appear in her 1989 movie called 'Old Gringo' and how she was forced to use a second-rater called Gregory Peck.

I like Call the Midwife.

How the fuck is her character still narrating CTM when the character was written out several years ago?

Dear R141, I haven't seen this show but I'm assuming Vanessa is—

Zionist Hoodlums!

She was right, of course.

Bullshit, R139. She never snarked at working with Peck. Your bias against Fonda is very evident.

R144 I suspect Fonda did say that about Peck, but she was being facetious. She was joking! Peck was well-loved by everybody in Hollywood.

Lancaster sued her over being replaced in the film.

Did he, R146? And so what if he did? People sue each other all the time. Being sued doesn't mean you're guilty of anything. Actors are replaced all the time; I'm not sure how that would justify a lawsuit.

I think the story was that Burt had had a heart attack and they couldn't get insurance on him.

Yes, far more likely, R148. There's a real anti-Fonda troll vomiting up on this thread easily disproven lies.

"She was right, of course."

She's not "right" about anything. She's just a loony Hollywood cunt who supported violence against Israel. No wonder so many people hate her.

So many people DON'T hate her, but a lot of people ARE fed up with Israel, R150.

She WAS right.

I remember seeing Neil Simon booing Redgrave from the front row. He was there with then-wife Marsha Mason who was nominated for The Goodbye Girl (which he wrote).

I watched it and she kept me from nodding off. Back then The Academy Awards were on a Monday night beginning at 9:00 PM.

Neil Simon booing, R152? I would need to see that to believe it. I remember distinctly the cut to Marsha Mason, who sat there, gazing at Redgrave. People did boo, I remember. Neil Simon booing, though? Not that I recall seeing. Not on camera.

"So many people DON'T hate her, but a lot of people ARE fed up with Israel."

Oh, she was VERY hated for her performance on the Oscars that night and for her idiotic behavior, like dancing with a machine gun. She advocated for violence against Israel. Which makes her NOT "right." But it does make her a cunt.

No one really cared beyond a few offended souls at the Oscars. Beyond that, tt had no impact, R155. Don't pretend it did.

"No one really cared beyond a few offended souls at the Oscars. "

The Oscars were just the tip of the iceberg. Her politics were despised by many, even before the Oscars. Don't pretend that it didn't.

"Playing for Time the movie, and the memoir upon which it is based, have assumed an important place in Holocaust scholarship. Since its publication and tremendous commercial success, Fénelon's testimony has been accepted as truth and widely dispersed in a plethora of academic, popular, and musical resources. This has proved a source of great frustration and heartache for the other survivors of the orchestra, who almost unanimously found Fania's representation of their orchestra and its personnel false and demeaning. They have fought a fierce battle in the decades since Playing for Time appeared to have their version of the orchestra and its history represented. Some attention has been paid to their concerns, but in large part they have been ignored. The greatest sources of anguish are the supposed inaccurate portrayal of Alma Rosé, the alleged slanderous portrayals of many of the other musicians, and the portrayed diminishment by Fénelon of their bond and support for one another."

Fenelon depicted her portrayal of her Holocaust experience as she saw it. The survivors who disagreed with her must have seen it differently. Or maybe they were just jealous that Fenelon's story got so much attention and acclaim. At any rate, none of this discredits Fenelon's opinion of Vanessa Redgrave, which is entirely accurate. Your attempt to slander Fenelon as a bad, unworthy person falls pathetically flat. You lose again, "Zionist Gash" troll.

R157, in 2011 Vanessa Redgrave was honored by the American Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. I'm attaching the YouTube clip. That's how"hated"she was/is.

R158, I was reporting what others felt about her. That's it no way trashing Fenelon, not on my part.

And of course she got the BAFTAFellowship in 2010.

Neil Simon can be seen in the Paddy Chayefsky video giving a sign like right on Paddy. Arthur Laurents also claps loudly and turns to Shirley MacLaine who doesn't join him.

R159 and R160

Those kind of award shows are both sad and creepy because —although she held herself well in these short appearances and in that TV grilling at R116— we have to acknowledge she's becoming increasingly fragile.

Sure, R162. After all, she's 83 and has been in delicate health.

"Vanessa Redgrave was honored by the American Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. I'm attaching the YouTube clip. That's how"hated"she was/is."

Doesn't mean people actually LIKE her. Lots of people hate her who AREN'T in the film industry.

"I was reporting what others felt about her. That's it no way trashing Fenelon, not on my part."

You posted that crap to make her look bad. You failed. You're the one who came off as dislikable.

I'm enjoying your triangulations, R164. You're really silly.

Poor Vanessa had a massive heart attack a few years ago and nearly died. She had to give up smoking and apparently only has limited lung capacity. Really she is doing quite well considering and even made a documentary on asylum seekers a year or so ago, though I believe the film is not that good. Pretty good for a person her age with compromised health.

Une SJW avant la lettre.

R167 What???

"An SJW before the letter" ??

R161, But Stanwyck's glare, they delete.

It wasn't a glare, R169. I saw it and remember it. This was already pointed out.

where r170?

Shirley MacLaine looked pissed off.

I wish Mike Wallace had questioned Redgrave about the shaking her ass with a machine gun performance. But I suspect she stipulated that she would not do the interview if asked about that particular incident. Her machine gun dance reminded me of another another such insane act which involved her dear friend Jane Fonda. Fonda was filmed giggling and clapping her hands while seated on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun vehicle. Although Fonda has over and over admitted fault and offered apologies (she stated that her actions were "the largest lapse of judgment I can imagine.") to this very day she is still vilified and hated by many for her behavior. I think the same can be said of Redgrave; she's still hated for expressing her support for violence against Israel. However she, unlike Fonda, has never expressed any remorse or offered any apology for her detestable display of stupidity. Dancing around with a machine gun...what sheer idiocy.

when doesn't she r172?

I think you're overestimating just how many people still care or ever cared to STILL harbor hate for them, R173. Sure, some do; most don't or even know about that time. Vietnam? Please--it's a dim memory and most grew to hate the war, not the protesters. Fonda in particular is very much liked these days, especially because of her show with Lily Tomlin. And the fact that she did apologize over and over since then makes her a lot more palatable to people.

MacLaine had the same politics as Fonda and Redgrave, pretty much. MacLaine visited Castro wearing olive green Army fatigues, FFS.

MacLaine...Stanwyck...Neil Simon...People are seeing things that aren't there.

I know her. She is anti-fascist. She was a child during the blitz. Lovely woman.

I don't know her but I've met her and talked with her, and I agree with you, R177. She's lovely.

"MacLaine had the same politics as Fonda and Redgrave, pretty much."

She was never as radical as Fonda and Redgrave. And she never acted as stupid as those two.

I'd say, R179, that Shirley MacLaine personally dressed in Communist Green army uniform while holding a daiquiri and paying a personal visit to Castro (as she was pictured in People Magazine at that time, I recall) was pretty fucking stupid.

Here Shirley is...working her best Comrade look...

And here Shirl is, sharing a toast with Fidel over keeping a tight rein on the Cuban masses...

R170, Think what you want. To me, it was a steamy, disgusted glare.

R168: please see here -

R183, I'm not thinking what I want, I remember it--Stanwyck looked quizzical, patient. It looked like a moment she was tolerating. That did not make it a glare. What has also already been pointed out is that Stanwyck could not have given a shit about either Israel or the Palestinians enough to glare at Redgrave.

I had forgotten about that dress she wore. Who was her designer? Potato sacks R Us?

Agreed, R186. That dress is Redgrave's only crime.

R185, What are you, special? You think you're the only one who saw it?

I saw it too and I saw it for what it was.

Stanwyck was obviously disgusted that an Oscar winner was using their moment to draw attention to themself.

It had nothing to do with Israel or Palestine. It was the fact that an Oscar recipient was acting inappropriately.

Calm down, R188.

You saw it for what you thought it was.

Fixed that for you.

"You saw it for what you thought it was."

And YOU saw it for what YOU thought it was. Fuck off.

I always wondered what happened to my 1978 graduation gown ...you wore it beautifully Vanny!

"That Shirley MacLaine personally dressed in Communist Green army uniform while holding a daiquiri and paying a personal visit to Castro (as she was pictured in People Magazine at that time, I recall) was pretty fucking stupid.."

Not nearly as stupid as going to North Vietnam and sitting on an anti-aircraft gun while giggling and clapping hands. Not nearly as stupid as dancing around with a machine gun and spouting off propaganda at the Academy Awards. Shirley MacLaine may have worn a Communist uniform but it was for show. She was never a Communist. And meeting with Fidel Castro was just that; a meeting. She wanted to meet him. She was never a fanatical, radical political extremist like Fonda and Redgrave. MacLaine was just weird. Fonda and Redgrave were/are total idiots.

Excusing what MacLaine did, R192, as just a harmless little meeting with a brutal dictator who suppressed his people horribly (in particular homosexuals, who were put in the Cuban equivalent of concentration camps) is really a whitewash, and I won't let you get away with it. She wanted to "meet" a brutal dictator and that's okay with you? Fuck outta here.

Btw, Redgrave wasn't spouting propaganda at the Oscars. She was calling them what they were: Zionist hoodlums. Like all Zionists.

I wonder if Castro fornicated MacLaine the way he did to Trudeau.

MacLaine was also fornicating with this Aussie power-broker—

Pete Hamill ditched Shirl's cooze for Jackie O's.

Tuesday Weld should've won.

Just IMAGINE a Tuesday Weld acceptance speech.

Actually, Tuesday was quite good in "Looking for Mr. Goodbar".

"Btw, Redgrave wasn't spouting propaganda at the Oscars. She was calling them what they were: Zionist hoodlums. Like all Zionists."

She was using the Academy Awards to promote her radical, extremist political propaganda. And it WAS propaganda. I know you worship her sagging ass, but that's exactly what she did.

"She wanted to "meet" a brutal dictator and that's okay with you?"

Shirley MacLaine, judging from her books, has always behaved out of the ordinary. She likes to know what makes certain kinds of people tick, which is why she met Castro. For her, it was just another experience, unlike that of Fonda and Redgrave whose behavior was always fueled by a desire for radicalism and the promotion of their political agendas. MacLaine's meeting with Castro ws NOTHING compared to the crazy shit Fonda and Redgrave have done.

Fonda's whole Vietnam thing is odd since in a way (and she admits this) she just did what her husbands did. Roger Vadim was sexual provocative and experimental so she was. Tom Hayden was against the war so she was. Ted Turner was a corporate bigwig so she became a corporate wife.

Jane Fonda, who has long been considered some kind of feminist, has always been an extension of the man she was married to. With Roger Vadim, she was the blonde sex kitten, Barbarella. With Tom Hayden she was the radical hippie anti-war activist. With Ted Turner she was the pampered trophy wife. Some feminist!

R199, that is a pathetic excuse to rationalize MacLaine's conduct at the expense of Redgrave and Fonda. Bull. Shit. She cozied up to a dictator, period.

R200, Fonda was involved in her anti-Vietnam activities well in advance of meeting Tom Hayden. And does it need saying that the Vietnam War was deeply unpopular, immoral (the extent of its immorality is felt even more strongly today), and many people campaigned just as strongly as Fonda to end it? The real enemy was Nixon.

R198, you're full of shit. It was NOT propaganda. Just because you hate her and love Zionism doesn't give any credence to your lame attempt, 43 years later, to dig up this old crap.

R201, Fonda has worked for 40 years on abortion rights, workplace rights, the ERA...everthing that concerns the betterment of women, she's been part of, and that makes her a feminist. Everything you say is meant to diminish her achievements, in a very sexist way.

Oh please r24 I wasn't at the dinner but I could still tell that that was a tongue in cheek joke. Vanessa was trying to be wittily funny

[quote]Fonda was involved in her anti-Vietnam activities well in advance of meeting Tom Hayden.

I'm just quoting her. She said in and interview and in her bio that she just became the men in her life. (starting with her father, he was an actor so she became one.)

She then says that's the wrap on me. There's no there there. She just assumed the men's identities. Her words not mine.

Those aren't her words, R204. You haven't actually quoted her at all. You're taking descriptions of how she felt in relation to the men in her life and you're making a judgment and then you're saying, hey, that's what she said about herself. You're utterly disingenuous.

You are way too invested in this r205 and sound unstable.

Fonda defined by the men in her life:

"There's no there there."

That's the bullshit you spouted, R204/R206, and are trying to claim Fonda said crap like that about herself.

Who's invested? You are, in tearing her down.

Well, she's not defined by any man in her life now. So I guess she conquered that problem. Why don't you say that?

That clip at 1.47 says she turn herself into a pretzel.

R204 "...she just became the men in her life. (starting with her father..."

And didn't her father send two of his wives to suicide?

Watch Vanessa dancing with a gun about 11 minutes 10 second and judge for yourself. I love her but really.

Uh-huh, R210--and that was 43 years ago.

"You're full of shit. It was NOT propaganda. Just because you hate her and love Zionism doesn't give any credence to your lame attempt, 43 years later, to dig up this old crap."

Oh shut the fuck up. You're crazy. You are one crazy fuckhead.

Dancing with a machine gun...supporting a terrorist group....boy, that Vanessa Redgrave is one crazy stupid cunt. No amount of time (43 years...so what?) can erase stupidity of THAT magnitude.

R212, blow me.

R213, I guess you oughta know about cunts, since you're a huge, gaping cunt.

I remember this tart fingerbanging herself on Nip/Tuck

So, R215, you're a tart if you're an actress and you're doing something that's required in a script? I guess you're very stupid and you don't understand how acting works.

R216 she's a tart because it's well known that she have blowies and handies in order to win her half Oscar. STFU you miserable bugger.

"it's well known that she have"

Oh, dear, R217. You're illiterate as well as an asshole, troll.

Lol someone's got their smelly knickers in a twist over some old actress R218

Go lie down

Lol--that's your response to your one stupidity, R219? Go out and get COVID, you stupid limey fuck.

Actually, its more than one instance of stupidity. I was just being nice to you, troll, R219.

R221 take a chill pill babe! Wishing Covid on a stranger just because you didn't like something they wrote (in jest) about a semi-famous actress? Clearly you have emotional/psychological issues that are truly concerning. Take care of yourself babe, we're all here for you X

I didn't say I wished it on you, I said go out and get it.

Look, it's okay that you're a Zionist troll but why pretend it was "in jest"? I would say the fact that you engage at all in this worthless attack of a famous actress (she's more than semi-famous) shows you care a lot more than you pretend. Babe.

R223 i really don't care one hoot for Vanessa's politics. And no, she is not really that famous anymore. She is good at doing that sad old lady voice, narrating Call The Midwife. And she didn't actually fingerbang herself on Nip/Tuck.

She's 83, R224. Sorry she hasn't been able to maintain her previous level of fame, but she has been around (and famous) since the mid-1960s.