link to Part 1 >
|by Anonymous||reply 1||05/19/2020|
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|by Anonymous||reply 90||Last Friday at 3:27 PM|
link to Part 1 >
|by Anonymous||reply 1||05/19/2020|
They were the top power in Europe till Napoleon and his wars wore them down. They came out on the winning side but like the UK after WWII, being on the winning side doesn't mean much.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||05/19/2020|
The experiment is not going so well.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||05/19/2020|
R3 Did you read the entire article?
|by Anonymous||reply 4||05/19/2020|
R4 Of course. The experiment is far from over. They ultimately may be correct in their assumptions.
But these data cannot be ignored.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||05/19/2020|
NYC emulating Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||05/20/2020|
I would expect there to be more deaths in Sweden. That shouldn’t be the end of the debate, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||05/20/2020|
More data... the "save longterm damage to the economy by letting more people die more quickly..." argument:
|by Anonymous||reply 8||05/20/2020|
The Guardian: Just over 7% of people in Stockholm are carrying antibodies that would protect them against coronavirus infection, a survey by Sweden’s public health authority has found.
Looks like it's going to take awhile to get to herd immunity.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||05/20/2020|
Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June, according to Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke, an advisor to the Swedish government's coronavirus policy.
Then all the deaths will have least bought them early herd immunity!
But maybe not.
[quote] For the city of Stockholm, two seroprevalence studies conducted by Swedish universities in April and early May found that 7.5 percent and ten percent of people tested there had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. Finally, based on the reported deaths in Stockholm County (1,855), and Sweden’s own COVID-19 infection fatality rate estimate (0.6 percent), it is possible to generate a crude estimate that 12 or 13 percent of residents in the Stockholm region have been infected to date.
[quote] Considering that the seroprevalence estimates from other hard-hit cities such as Wuhan (ten percent), London (ten percent), and Madrid (11 percent) are in a similar range, the official estimates that Stockholm might be approaching 40 to 60 percent immunity by June are even harder to believe.
So... what if their policy only brought them a superior way to kill old people without conferring much immunity onto the general population?
|by Anonymous||reply 10||05/20/2020|
Just a (perhaps important) observation. The hope that antibodies for covid-19 confers immunity is NOT settled science for this particular virus.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||05/20/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 12||05/20/2020|
R10 all the articles I've read say you need 70%- 80% for herd immunity, not 40%-60%.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||05/20/2020|
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. There is no proof yet that just because you have antibodies that it means you’re immune. Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||05/20/2020|
[quote] Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.
I haven’t seen anything in any news articles related to this. Some people tested negative and subsequently tested positive, the thinking is the virus was still in the system, but nobody had to go back to the hospital or got sick again.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||05/21/2020|
Looks like Anders Tegnell is even more incompetent than Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro. They've pulled into the lead.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||05/21/2020|
CNN @CNN · 13m Sweden has revealed that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed the antibodies needed to fight the disease by late April.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||05/21/2020|
LOL at this article. So you're telling me their strategy was a fail? I'm SHOCKED!
|by Anonymous||reply 18||05/22/2020|
Amazing. The epicenter in the US, New York, is averaging around 19% of the population with antibodies with a severe lockdown.
Go figure that one out.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||05/22/2020|
Did anyone ask Bob?
|by Anonymous||reply 20||05/22/2020|
So ‘Midsommar’ was based on reality after all.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||05/22/2020|
Strange to talk about ‘Herd Immunity’ when there isn’t a vaccine yet.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||05/22/2020|
That was pointed out quite a while ago, when they first announced their strategy, R22. They ultimately backed off that claim, if I recall correctly, and said that they had been misunderstood and that isn't what they were going for.
Sweden did a bit better in the first quarter of this year when compared to the rest of the Eurozone (0.3% decline compared to 3.8% decline, if I recall correctly) but as other articles have shown, some of those small businesses that remained open in Sweden, softening the blow, are in trouble right now because the customers just aren't there, so Sweden may have only managed to delay the damage, not prevent it. The early estimates from a couple of different sources are that Sweden will take a 7-10% hit in GDP this year, in line with its neighbors.
It's going to be interesting in future years to see the data come out as to why certain regions were hit so much harder than others. There is speculation, for example, that Sweden didn't get hit as hard as, say, Italy, because Italy has more multi-generational housing and that family spread played a much larger role in Italy than it has in Sweden. Or perhaps it's the Chinese labor in Italy that caused so much harm. Or the fact that Sweden in winter isn't as much of a travel destination, so fewer incoming vectors.
I have absolutely no idea whether any of that is true, so treat with some skepticism, but we definitely have a lot to learn about the virus and about the response to it.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||05/22/2020|
This is from late April, so it looks like I was wrong that they had backed off on the claim about her immunity.
[quote]Parts of Sweden are on track to achieve so-called herd immunity from the novel coronavirus-caused COVID-19 disease within weeks, according to the man who devised the country's unusual strategy for dealing with the outbreak.
[quote]Anders Tegnell said the Swedish capital, Stockholm, will be among the first places to develop such immunity. He told local media infection rates in the city of 2.4 million people have already started to slow, because locals have developed resistance to the disease.
[quote]"According to our modelers, we are starting to see so many immune people in the population in Stockholm that it is starting to have an effect on the spread of the infection," he said.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||05/22/2020|
Ugh... "her immunity" should be "herd immunity," of course.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||05/22/2020|
Interesting. Tegnell, just 10 days later.
[quote]The architect behind Sweden's coronavirus plan even said he wasn't sure if the relaxed approach is working.
[quote]"I'm not convinced at all," Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, told the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet on May 1.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||05/22/2020|
Why is anyone going on and on about this Swedish experiment?
No one’s going out to eat there or to shop either.
All in all, in nearly every measure, Sweden has failed. Its Covid death rate is among the highest in the world
|by Anonymous||reply 27||05/22/2020|
It’s nowhere near the herd immunity levels you need. It’s below 10% when you need 70%.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||05/22/2020|
Both in terms of economic impact and public health, Sweden is one of the worst countries in the world. Maybe in a year the story may look different, but nothing so far says they made the right decisions.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||05/22/2020|
Sweden now has the worst death rate in Europe
|by Anonymous||reply 30||05/23/2020|
An EU country like Sweden should be doing better. But it seems the EU cannot set health rules. Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?
|by Anonymous||reply 31||05/24/2020|
[quote]Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?
Start a thread about the weather - then ask again.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||05/24/2020|
I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent. What makes them like this? They're not that different from North Koreans if you ask me.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||05/24/2020|
[quote]I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent.
The same mindset as Nazi Germany, or even current Germany. It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||05/24/2020|
[quote]It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.
Independence has nothing to do with it. Sweden has a miniscule, homogeneous population which promotes a compliant, we're in this together mentality. America's population is far too heterogeneous, angry, violent and distrusting for any type of social consensus to prevail.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||05/24/2020|
That Dr Mengele type figure (Tegnell?) essentially did a lab rat experiment with the Swedish population. Live human beings sacrificed to test a theory.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||05/24/2020|
R33, unlike you, and a lot of DLers, and right-wingers the Swedes believe in doing what's right for the common good.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||05/24/2020|
Throwing that one in sure threw us off the scent that you're regurgitating right wing talking points.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||05/24/2020|
What the hell are you even talking about? Nothing I said was right-wing. The right doesn't believe in the common good. The anti-mask & anti-shut down bullshit tells you that.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||05/24/2020|
What a weird, smug little country. How lazy are they? Put some effort into it like South Korea and Taiwan.
Sweden: 3998 deaths out of 10.23 million, median age 41.1
South Korea: 266 deaths out of 51.64 million, median age 40.8
Taiwan: 7 deaths out of 23.78 million, median age 42.5
"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".
Maybe, but at least through it all the latter will have done their best making sure there are adequate resources for the infected, so that in the end there are going to be fewer deaths per capita than in Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||05/24/2020|
Sweden is just open to everything, aren't they? Foreigners, foreign bodies, etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||05/24/2020|
Anyone that wants you to catch SARS-CoV-2 to save the economy is a sociopath, not an epidemiologist or an economist.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||05/24/2020|
R38, to explain what I meant. This is an outsider, but based on what I've read. The Swedes don't see their government as evil, and unlike our current US administration, I don't think it is. Their government, unlike ours, didn't sacrifice people's lives in an attempt to lessen political fallout, no did they lie, cheat and steal to profit from the pandemic. I think their government made the wrong choice, but it wasn't because they're right-wingers. The population followed along because their government is mostly trust-worthy, and they believe in supporting the common good, unlike the Trump administration.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||05/24/2020|
[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".
Do they plan to keep their borders closed?
Also, as others have said, no one knows for sure how long immunity will last for those who have been infected. Seems like a reckless plan to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||05/24/2020|
[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".
Herd immunity is going to take a long time at this rate:
"On May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown."
|by Anonymous||reply 45||05/24/2020|
Swedes are instinctively inclined to social distancing with many living alone. Compare with Italy where people are much warmer and touchy freely. They hug and greet each other with kisses on the cheek.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||05/24/2020|
[quote] Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June
They have a week left to make that deadline, and only 7% of the country has been infected,
|by Anonymous||reply 47||05/25/2020|
The Swedes are Nazis and homosexuals.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||05/25/2020|
Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes
|by Anonymous||reply 49||06/03/2020|
Norway has opened its borders for travel to Denmark and Germany, because these countries are actually doing something. The Swedish border is still closed though. Norwegians are pissed because they aren't able to buy cheap alcohol, beef and candy in Sweden. Grocery prices are at least 50 % cheaper in Sweden than Norway. Many Norwegians who live close to the border shop in Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||06/03/2020|
Sweden, Where No Lockdown Was Ordered, Becomes Second Most-Infected Country
|by Anonymous||reply 51||06/19/2020|
R51 Fucking idiots thought they were being so smart. This is what happens when you ignore science.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||06/19/2020|
What could go wrong, OP?
|by Anonymous||reply 53||06/19/2020|
A different approach in a different Nordic country with a much better outcome. Then, again, the level of civic mindedness in Iceland is astounding since almost the entire population is little more than an extended family.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||06/19/2020|
Sweden failed. Even its health minister admits he did it wrong.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||06/19/2020|
Sweden isn’t known for being very smart. From them letting a bunch of asylum seekers in all at once to this, it shows they have no common sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||06/19/2020|
Isn't this about the long game and herd immunity? Of course you'd expect a higher rate of infections. Will we see Swedes crawling out of the Covid barrel sooner and with lower infection rates when the second and third waves come around, as they surely will? People seem to be in a big hurry to condemn Sweden. The jury's still out, imo. But go ahead and keep pinning your hopes on an effective vaccine with in the next year or two.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||06/19/2020|
Keep pinning your hopes on no one noticing people dying until Trump gets re-elected, R57.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||06/19/2020|
We're all Sweden now.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||06/19/2020|
R57, oddly, Sweden’s antibody rates are about the same as every other country’s (around 10%), yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.
You need about 70% for herd immunity to begin
|by Anonymous||reply 60||06/19/2020|
[quote]yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.
Sweden? Where have you heard that?
|by Anonymous||reply 61||06/19/2020|
Herd immunity is a fantasy. There has't been any evidence that there actually is any long-lasting immunity from having the disease. Some people, yes, but not many so far. There is also more evidence of persistence of infection: some people who have tested negative for months after recovery have experienced recurrence of the disease and tested positive again. The consequences of both of these facts are pretty simple: no good can come of getting infected by SARS-CoV-2.
Also, for a disease this infectious, herd immunity would only begin at around 85% (not 70%). Big difference.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||06/20/2020|
So we're no longer following the Swedish story?
|by Anonymous||reply 63||06/24/2020|
Nope, it failed, as expected, so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||06/25/2020|
Oh, I see.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||06/25/2020|
They sure found a great way to resolve the problem of the ageing population.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||06/25/2020|
We are all Sweden now.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||06/25/2020|
"Surge of cases in Europe since lockdown easing, says WHO"
"The body’s regional director for Europe, Hans Kluge, has told reporters that Europe has seen a surge of Covid-19 cases since countries began easing restrictions."
“Last week, Europe saw an increase in weekly cases for the first time in months,” he said, adding that more than two dozen countries in Europe had recorded resurgences of the deadly virus."
"Thirty countries have seen increases in new cumulative cases over the past two weeks. In 11 of these countries, accelerated transmission has led to very significant resurgence that if left unchecked will push health systems to the brink once again in Europe."
|by Anonymous||reply 68||06/25/2020|
I hope ABBA and Pippi Longstocking are ok.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||06/25/2020|
[quote]so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away
I still enjoy 'The Swedish Meatball' and will continue consuming same.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||06/25/2020|
Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||06/25/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 72||06/25/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 73||06/25/2020|
[quote]Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.
Gurl, you need to do more reading up on Sweden, it seems.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||06/25/2020|
Life back to normal in Sweden.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||06/25/2020|
[quote] The Swedish Model
|by Anonymous||reply 76||06/26/2020|
[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.
Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?
|by Anonymous||reply 77||06/26/2020|
Tegnell spotted in the wild biking to work
|by Anonymous||reply 78||06/26/2020|
[quote]Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?
Why? And should France, Spain, Italy, Belgium....countries that have has so many more deaths per capita?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||06/26/2020|
You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.
Should you take a video of the bar in Florida that is the epicenter of an outbreak and declare the pandemic over? Should you post the video of the surprise birthday party that infected 18 people and say that everything is back to normal?
It is a stupid video that only shows the ignorance of the person creating it and the ignorance of those spreading it.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||06/26/2020|
[quote]You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.
No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid. We get what he means.
My friends in Italy continually send me cell phone videos of our town. People at cafes, going shopping, restrictions eased. "We're back to normal". I know what they're saying.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||06/26/2020|
[quote] No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid.
[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.
You have a different definition of normal.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||06/26/2020|
R82 you may have Aspenger's but most of us don't.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||06/26/2020|
Sweden's little experiment failed miserably. Can we now stop holidng it up as some libertarian model to follow?
|by Anonymous||reply 84||06/26/2020|
Check out these graphs. Don’t think this is working out for them so hot.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||06/26/2020|
See how quickly you can identify Sweden on this map.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||06/27/2020|
OMG the juvenile name calling on DL anymore. The place is becoming unbearable with infantilism.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||07/08/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 88||Last Friday at 11:09 AM|
From a 7/30 Newsweek article entitled, "Sweden, Which Never Had Lockdown, Sees COVID-19 Cases Plummet as Rest of Europe Suffers Spike":
Amid fears over a potential second wave of the novel coronavirus across Europe, new infections in Sweden, where full lockdown measures were not implemented, have mostly declined since late June.
The number of new cases per 100,000 people in Sweden reported over the last 14 days since July 29 dropped by 54 percent from the figure reported over 14 days prior to then, according to the latest report Wednesday from the World Health Organization (WHO).
Meanwhile, other parts of Europe have reported large spikes in new cases over the same period, including Spain, France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands, which have seen increases between 40 and 200 percent over the last month, according to the latest WHO report Wednesday.
The seven-day rolling average of Sweden's daily new cases has been dropping consistently since June 29. Its daily case count has been mostly decreasing since June 24, when it reported 1,803 new infections, its largest single-day spike since the outbreak began, according to data compiled by Worldometer.
The seven-day rolling average of daily new deaths in Sweden has also been declining since around April 15, when it reported a record daily death count of 115. The country's latest seven-day rolling averages for daily new cases and daily new deaths stand at 154 and 2.
However, the Scandinavian nation ranks eighth among countries with the highest number of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people. It outranks the U.S. and Brazil, which are the world's first and second worst-hit nations in terms of total cases, according to Johns Hopkins University.
Last week Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, who has led the country's COVID-19 response, said the nation's controversial anti-lockdown strategy has been a success "to a great extent," in an interview with UnHerd.
While an official lockdown was never ordered, Tegnell noted: "We have cut down on movement in society quite a lot. We have compared how much we travel in Scandinavian countries, and the decrease in travel is the same in Sweden as in neighbouring countries. In many ways the voluntary measures we put in place in Sweden have been just as effective as complete lockdowns in other countries.
"We are now seeing rapidly falling cases, we have continuously had healthcare that has been working, there have been free beds at any given time, never any crowding in the hospitals.
"The failure [of the strategy] has of course been the death toll…that has been very much related to the long-term care facilities in Sweden. Now that has improved, we see a lot less cases in those facilities," Tegnell said.
When asked whether having a lockdown in Sweden could have made a difference on the impact of the outbreak, Tegnell told UnHerd: "It would have made maybe some difference, we don't know…we also have to look at what are the negative effect of lockdowns, and that has not been done very much so far."
The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates the number of new COVID-19 cases in the U.S. states and the European Union.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||Last Friday at 3:27 PM|
Sweden has reported nearly 79,800 confirmed cases, as of Thursday, according to Johns Hopkins University. Last month, Sweden was the second most-infected country per capita in the world.
Instead of a lockdown, Sweden aimed to develop "herd immunity," hoping that an increased number of people exposed to the virus will help to prevent a second wave of infections.
Several academics as well as teachers and parents in Sweden have previously spoken out against the country's anti-lockdown strategy and the risks imposed on children's health, among other issues.
As of Thursday, there are nearly 1.8 million (1,704,897) confirmed cases reported in the European Union/European Economic Area and the U.K., according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).
More than 17 million people globally have been infected since the virus was first reported in Wuhan, China, including over 4.4 million in the U.S. Over 9.9 million globally have reportedly recovered from infection, while over 667,600 have died, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates U.S. states with more than 100 COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the past week.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||Last Friday at 3:27 PM|
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