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Sweden's doing it differently...Part II

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by Anonymousreply 90Last Friday at 3:27 PM

link to Part 1 >

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by Anonymousreply 105/19/2020

They were the top power in Europe till Napoleon and his wars wore them down. They came out on the winning side but like the UK after WWII, being on the winning side doesn't mean much.

by Anonymousreply 205/19/2020

The experiment is not going so well.

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by Anonymousreply 305/19/2020

R3 Did you read the entire article?

by Anonymousreply 405/19/2020

R4 Of course. The experiment is far from over. They ultimately may be correct in their assumptions.

But these data cannot be ignored.

by Anonymousreply 505/19/2020

NYC emulating Sweden.

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by Anonymousreply 605/20/2020

I would expect there to be more deaths in Sweden. That shouldn’t be the end of the debate, though.

by Anonymousreply 705/20/2020

More data... the "save longterm damage to the economy by letting more people die more quickly..." argument:

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by Anonymousreply 805/20/2020

The Guardian: Just over 7% of people in Stockholm are carrying antibodies that would protect them against coronavirus infection, a survey by Sweden’s public health authority has found.

Looks like it's going to take awhile to get to herd immunity.

by Anonymousreply 905/20/2020

Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June, according to Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke, an advisor to the Swedish government's coronavirus policy.

Then all the deaths will have least bought them early herd immunity!

But maybe not.

[quote] For the city of Stockholm, two seroprevalence studies conducted by Swedish universities in April and early May found that 7.5 percent and ten percent of people tested there had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. Finally, based on the reported deaths in Stockholm County (1,855), and Sweden’s own COVID-19 infection fatality rate estimate (0.6 percent), it is possible to generate a crude estimate that 12 or 13 percent of residents in the Stockholm region have been infected to date.

[quote] Considering that the seroprevalence estimates from other hard-hit cities such as Wuhan (ten percent), London (ten percent), and Madrid (11 percent) are in a similar range, the official estimates that Stockholm might be approaching 40 to 60 percent immunity by June are even harder to believe.

So... what if their policy only brought them a superior way to kill old people without conferring much immunity onto the general population?

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by Anonymousreply 1005/20/2020

Just a (perhaps important) observation. The hope that antibodies for covid-19 confers immunity is NOT settled science for this particular virus.

by Anonymousreply 1105/20/2020


by Anonymousreply 1205/20/2020

R10 all the articles I've read say you need 70%- 80% for herd immunity, not 40%-60%.

by Anonymousreply 1305/20/2020

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. There is no proof yet that just because you have antibodies that it means you’re immune. Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.

by Anonymousreply 1405/20/2020

[quote] Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.

Link, please.

I haven’t seen anything in any news articles related to this. Some people tested negative and subsequently tested positive, the thinking is the virus was still in the system, but nobody had to go back to the hospital or got sick again.

by Anonymousreply 1505/21/2020

Looks like Anders Tegnell is even more incompetent than Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro. They've pulled into the lead.

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by Anonymousreply 1605/21/2020

CNN @CNN · 13m Sweden has revealed that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed the antibodies needed to fight the disease by late April.

by Anonymousreply 1705/21/2020

LOL at this article. So you're telling me their strategy was a fail? I'm SHOCKED!

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by Anonymousreply 1805/22/2020

Amazing. The epicenter in the US, New York, is averaging around 19% of the population with antibodies with a severe lockdown.

Go figure that one out.

by Anonymousreply 1905/22/2020

Did anyone ask Bob?

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by Anonymousreply 2005/22/2020

So ‘Midsommar’ was based on reality after all.

by Anonymousreply 2105/22/2020

Strange to talk about ‘Herd Immunity’ when there isn’t a vaccine yet.

by Anonymousreply 2205/22/2020

That was pointed out quite a while ago, when they first announced their strategy, R22. They ultimately backed off that claim, if I recall correctly, and said that they had been misunderstood and that isn't what they were going for.

Sweden did a bit better in the first quarter of this year when compared to the rest of the Eurozone (0.3% decline compared to 3.8% decline, if I recall correctly) but as other articles have shown, some of those small businesses that remained open in Sweden, softening the blow, are in trouble right now because the customers just aren't there, so Sweden may have only managed to delay the damage, not prevent it. The early estimates from a couple of different sources are that Sweden will take a 7-10% hit in GDP this year, in line with its neighbors.

It's going to be interesting in future years to see the data come out as to why certain regions were hit so much harder than others. There is speculation, for example, that Sweden didn't get hit as hard as, say, Italy, because Italy has more multi-generational housing and that family spread played a much larger role in Italy than it has in Sweden. Or perhaps it's the Chinese labor in Italy that caused so much harm. Or the fact that Sweden in winter isn't as much of a travel destination, so fewer incoming vectors.

I have absolutely no idea whether any of that is true, so treat with some skepticism, but we definitely have a lot to learn about the virus and about the response to it.

by Anonymousreply 2305/22/2020

This is from late April, so it looks like I was wrong that they had backed off on the claim about her immunity.

[quote]Parts of Sweden are on track to achieve so-called herd immunity from the novel coronavirus-caused COVID-19 disease within weeks, according to the man who devised the country's unusual strategy for dealing with the outbreak.

[quote]Anders Tegnell said the Swedish capital, Stockholm, will be among the first places to develop such immunity. He told local media infection rates in the city of 2.4 million people have already started to slow, because locals have developed resistance to the disease.

[quote]"According to our modelers, we are starting to see so many immune people in the population in Stockholm that it is starting to have an effect on the spread of the infection," he said.

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by Anonymousreply 2405/22/2020

Ugh... "her immunity" should be "herd immunity," of course.

by Anonymousreply 2505/22/2020

Interesting. Tegnell, just 10 days later.

[quote]The architect behind Sweden's coronavirus plan even said he wasn't sure if the relaxed approach is working.

[quote]"I'm not convinced at all," Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, told the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet on May 1.


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by Anonymousreply 2605/22/2020

Why is anyone going on and on about this Swedish experiment?

No one’s going out to eat there or to shop either.

All in all, in nearly every measure, Sweden has failed. Its Covid death rate is among the highest in the world

by Anonymousreply 2705/22/2020

It’s nowhere near the herd immunity levels you need. It’s below 10% when you need 70%.

by Anonymousreply 2805/22/2020

Both in terms of economic impact and public health, Sweden is one of the worst countries in the world. Maybe in a year the story may look different, but nothing so far says they made the right decisions.

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by Anonymousreply 2905/22/2020

Sweden now has the worst death rate in Europe

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by Anonymousreply 3005/23/2020

An EU country like Sweden should be doing better. But it seems the EU cannot set health rules. Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?

by Anonymousreply 3105/24/2020

[quote]Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?

Start a thread about the weather - then ask again.

by Anonymousreply 3205/24/2020

I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent. What makes them like this? They're not that different from North Koreans if you ask me.

by Anonymousreply 3305/24/2020

[quote]I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent.

The same mindset as Nazi Germany, or even current Germany. It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.

by Anonymousreply 3405/24/2020

[quote]It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.

Independence has nothing to do with it. Sweden has a miniscule, homogeneous population which promotes a compliant, we're in this together mentality. America's population is far too heterogeneous, angry, violent and distrusting for any type of social consensus to prevail.

by Anonymousreply 3505/24/2020

That Dr Mengele type figure (Tegnell?) essentially did a lab rat experiment with the Swedish population. Live human beings sacrificed to test a theory.

by Anonymousreply 3605/24/2020

R33, unlike you, and a lot of DLers, and right-wingers the Swedes believe in doing what's right for the common good.

by Anonymousreply 3705/24/2020

[quote]and right-wingers

Throwing that one in sure threw us off the scent that you're regurgitating right wing talking points.

by Anonymousreply 3805/24/2020

What the hell are you even talking about? Nothing I said was right-wing. The right doesn't believe in the common good. The anti-mask & anti-shut down bullshit tells you that.

by Anonymousreply 3905/24/2020

What a weird, smug little country. How lazy are they? Put some effort into it like South Korea and Taiwan.

Sweden: 3998 deaths out of 10.23 million, median age 41.1

South Korea: 266 deaths out of 51.64 million, median age 40.8

Taiwan: 7 deaths out of 23.78 million, median age 42.5

"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Maybe, but at least through it all the latter will have done their best making sure there are adequate resources for the infected, so that in the end there are going to be fewer deaths per capita than in Sweden.

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by Anonymousreply 4005/24/2020

Sweden is just open to everything, aren't they? Foreigners, foreign bodies, etc.

by Anonymousreply 4105/24/2020

Anyone that wants you to catch SARS-CoV-2 to save the economy is a sociopath, not an epidemiologist or an economist.

by Anonymousreply 4205/24/2020

R38, to explain what I meant. This is an outsider, but based on what I've read. The Swedes don't see their government as evil, and unlike our current US administration, I don't think it is. Their government, unlike ours, didn't sacrifice people's lives in an attempt to lessen political fallout, no did they lie, cheat and steal to profit from the pandemic. I think their government made the wrong choice, but it wasn't because they're right-wingers. The population followed along because their government is mostly trust-worthy, and they believe in supporting the common good, unlike the Trump administration.

by Anonymousreply 4305/24/2020

[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Do they plan to keep their borders closed?

Also, as others have said, no one knows for sure how long immunity will last for those who have been infected. Seems like a reckless plan to me.

by Anonymousreply 4405/24/2020

[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Herd immunity is going to take a long time at this rate:

"On May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown."

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by Anonymousreply 4505/24/2020

Swedes are instinctively inclined to social distancing with many living alone. Compare with Italy where people are much warmer and touchy freely. They hug and greet each other with kisses on the cheek.

by Anonymousreply 4605/24/2020

[quote] Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June

They have a week left to make that deadline, and only 7% of the country has been infected,

by Anonymousreply 4705/25/2020

The Swedes are Nazis and homosexuals.

by Anonymousreply 4805/25/2020


Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

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by Anonymousreply 4906/03/2020

Norway has opened its borders for travel to Denmark and Germany, because these countries are actually doing something. The Swedish border is still closed though. Norwegians are pissed because they aren't able to buy cheap alcohol, beef and candy in Sweden. Grocery prices are at least 50 % cheaper in Sweden than Norway. Many Norwegians who live close to the border shop in Sweden.

by Anonymousreply 5006/03/2020

Sweden, Where No Lockdown Was Ordered, Becomes Second Most-Infected Country

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by Anonymousreply 5106/19/2020

R51 Fucking idiots thought they were being so smart. This is what happens when you ignore science.

by Anonymousreply 5206/19/2020

What could go wrong, OP?

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by Anonymousreply 5306/19/2020

A different approach in a different Nordic country with a much better outcome. Then, again, the level of civic mindedness in Iceland is astounding since almost the entire population is little more than an extended family.

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by Anonymousreply 5406/19/2020

Sweden failed. Even its health minister admits he did it wrong.

Case Closed

by Anonymousreply 5506/19/2020

Sweden isn’t known for being very smart. From them letting a bunch of asylum seekers in all at once to this, it shows they have no common sense.

by Anonymousreply 5606/19/2020

Isn't this about the long game and herd immunity? Of course you'd expect a higher rate of infections. Will we see Swedes crawling out of the Covid barrel sooner and with lower infection rates when the second and third waves come around, as they surely will? People seem to be in a big hurry to condemn Sweden. The jury's still out, imo. But go ahead and keep pinning your hopes on an effective vaccine with in the next year or two.

by Anonymousreply 5706/19/2020

Keep pinning your hopes on no one noticing people dying until Trump gets re-elected, R57.

by Anonymousreply 5806/19/2020

We're all Sweden now.

by Anonymousreply 5906/19/2020

R57, oddly, Sweden’s antibody rates are about the same as every other country’s (around 10%), yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.

You need about 70% for herd immunity to begin

by Anonymousreply 6006/19/2020

[quote]yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.

Sweden? Where have you heard that?

by Anonymousreply 6106/19/2020

Herd immunity is a fantasy. There has't been any evidence that there actually is any long-lasting immunity from having the disease. Some people, yes, but not many so far. There is also more evidence of persistence of infection: some people who have tested negative for months after recovery have experienced recurrence of the disease and tested positive again. The consequences of both of these facts are pretty simple: no good can come of getting infected by SARS-CoV-2.

Also, for a disease this infectious, herd immunity would only begin at around 85% (not 70%). Big difference.

by Anonymousreply 6206/20/2020

So we're no longer following the Swedish story?

by Anonymousreply 6306/24/2020

Nope, it failed, as expected, so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away.

by Anonymousreply 6406/25/2020

Oh, I see.

by Anonymousreply 6506/25/2020

They sure found a great way to resolve the problem of the ageing population.

by Anonymousreply 6606/25/2020

We are all Sweden now.

by Anonymousreply 6706/25/2020

"Surge of cases in Europe since lockdown easing, says WHO"

"The body’s regional director for Europe, Hans Kluge, has told reporters that Europe has seen a surge of Covid-19 cases since countries began easing restrictions."

“Last week, Europe saw an increase in weekly cases for the first time in months,” he said, adding that more than two dozen countries in Europe had recorded resurgences of the deadly virus."

"Thirty countries have seen increases in new cumulative cases over the past two weeks. In 11 of these countries, accelerated transmission has led to very significant resurgence that if left unchecked will push health systems to the brink once again in Europe."

by Anonymousreply 6806/25/2020

I hope ABBA and Pippi Longstocking are ok.

by Anonymousreply 6906/25/2020

[quote]so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away

I still enjoy 'The Swedish Meatball' and will continue consuming same.

by Anonymousreply 7006/25/2020

Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.

by Anonymousreply 7106/25/2020


by Anonymousreply 7206/25/2020



by Anonymousreply 7306/25/2020

[quote]Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.

Gurl, you need to do more reading up on Sweden, it seems.

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by Anonymousreply 7406/25/2020

Life back to normal in Sweden.

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by Anonymousreply 7506/25/2020

[quote] The Swedish Model


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by Anonymousreply 7606/26/2020

[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.

Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?

by Anonymousreply 7706/26/2020

Tegnell spotted in the wild biking to work

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by Anonymousreply 7806/26/2020

[quote]Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?

Why? And should France, Spain, Italy, Belgium....countries that have has so many more deaths per capita?

by Anonymousreply 7906/26/2020

You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.

Should you take a video of the bar in Florida that is the epicenter of an outbreak and declare the pandemic over? Should you post the video of the surprise birthday party that infected 18 people and say that everything is back to normal?

It is a stupid video that only shows the ignorance of the person creating it and the ignorance of those spreading it.

by Anonymousreply 8006/26/2020

[quote]You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.

No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid. We get what he means.

My friends in Italy continually send me cell phone videos of our town. People at cafes, going shopping, restrictions eased. "We're back to normal". I know what they're saying.

by Anonymousreply 8106/26/2020

[quote] No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid.

[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.

You have a different definition of normal.

by Anonymousreply 8206/26/2020

R82 you may have Aspenger's but most of us don't.

by Anonymousreply 8306/26/2020

Sweden's little experiment failed miserably. Can we now stop holidng it up as some libertarian model to follow?

by Anonymousreply 8406/26/2020

Check out these graphs. Don’t think this is working out for them so hot.

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by Anonymousreply 8506/26/2020

See how quickly you can identify Sweden on this map.

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by Anonymousreply 8606/27/2020

OMG the juvenile name calling on DL anymore. The place is becoming unbearable with infantilism.

by Anonymousreply 8707/08/2020


by Anonymousreply 88Last Friday at 11:09 AM

From a 7/30 Newsweek article entitled, "Sweden, Which Never Had Lockdown, Sees COVID-19 Cases Plummet as Rest of Europe Suffers Spike":

Amid fears over a potential second wave of the novel coronavirus across Europe, new infections in Sweden, where full lockdown measures were not implemented, have mostly declined since late June.

The number of new cases per 100,000 people in Sweden reported over the last 14 days since July 29 dropped by 54 percent from the figure reported over 14 days prior to then, according to the latest report Wednesday from the World Health Organization (WHO).

Meanwhile, other parts of Europe have reported large spikes in new cases over the same period, including Spain, France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands, which have seen increases between 40 and 200 percent over the last month, according to the latest WHO report Wednesday.

The seven-day rolling average of Sweden's daily new cases has been dropping consistently since June 29. Its daily case count has been mostly decreasing since June 24, when it reported 1,803 new infections, its largest single-day spike since the outbreak began, according to data compiled by Worldometer.

The seven-day rolling average of daily new deaths in Sweden has also been declining since around April 15, when it reported a record daily death count of 115. The country's latest seven-day rolling averages for daily new cases and daily new deaths stand at 154 and 2.

However, the Scandinavian nation ranks eighth among countries with the highest number of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people. It outranks the U.S. and Brazil, which are the world's first and second worst-hit nations in terms of total cases, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Last week Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, who has led the country's COVID-19 response, said the nation's controversial anti-lockdown strategy has been a success "to a great extent," in an interview with UnHerd.

While an official lockdown was never ordered, Tegnell noted: "We have cut down on movement in society quite a lot. We have compared how much we travel in Scandinavian countries, and the decrease in travel is the same in Sweden as in neighbouring countries. In many ways the voluntary measures we put in place in Sweden have been just as effective as complete lockdowns in other countries.

"We are now seeing rapidly falling cases, we have continuously had healthcare that has been working, there have been free beds at any given time, never any crowding in the hospitals.

"The failure [of the strategy] has of course been the death toll…that has been very much related to the long-term care facilities in Sweden. Now that has improved, we see a lot less cases in those facilities," Tegnell said.

When asked whether having a lockdown in Sweden could have made a difference on the impact of the outbreak, Tegnell told UnHerd: "It would have made maybe some difference, we don't know…we also have to look at what are the negative effect of lockdowns, and that has not been done very much so far."

The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates the number of new COVID-19 cases in the U.S. states and the European Union.

by Anonymousreply 89Last Friday at 3:27 PM

Sweden has reported nearly 79,800 confirmed cases, as of Thursday, according to Johns Hopkins University. Last month, Sweden was the second most-infected country per capita in the world.

Instead of a lockdown, Sweden aimed to develop "herd immunity," hoping that an increased number of people exposed to the virus will help to prevent a second wave of infections.

Several academics as well as teachers and parents in Sweden have previously spoken out against the country's anti-lockdown strategy and the risks imposed on children's health, among other issues.

As of Thursday, there are nearly 1.8 million (1,704,897) confirmed cases reported in the European Union/European Economic Area and the U.K., according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

More than 17 million people globally have been infected since the virus was first reported in Wuhan, China, including over 4.4 million in the U.S. Over 9.9 million globally have reportedly recovered from infection, while over 667,600 have died, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates U.S. states with more than 100 COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the past week.

by Anonymousreply 90Last Friday at 3:27 PM
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