Sweden's doing it differently...Part II

link to Part 1 >

They were the top power in Europe till Napoleon and his wars wore them down. They came out on the winning side but like the UK after WWII, being on the winning side doesn't mean much.

The experiment is not going so well.

R3 Did you read the entire article?

R4 Of course. The experiment is far from over. They ultimately may be correct in their assumptions.

But these data cannot be ignored.

NYC emulating Sweden.

I would expect there to be more deaths in Sweden. That shouldn’t be the end of the debate, though.

More data... the "save longterm damage to the economy by letting more people die more quickly..." argument:

The Guardian: Just over 7% of people in Stockholm are carrying antibodies that would protect them against coronavirus infection, a survey by Sweden’s public health authority has found.

Looks like it's going to take awhile to get to herd immunity.

Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June, according to Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke, an advisor to the Swedish government's coronavirus policy.

Then all the deaths will have least bought them early herd immunity!

But maybe not.

[quote] For the city of Stockholm, two seroprevalence studies conducted by Swedish universities in April and early May found that 7.5 percent and ten percent of people tested there had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. Finally, based on the reported deaths in Stockholm County (1,855), and Sweden’s own COVID-19 infection fatality rate estimate (0.6 percent), it is possible to generate a crude estimate that 12 or 13 percent of residents in the Stockholm region have been infected to date.

[quote] Considering that the seroprevalence estimates from other hard-hit cities such as Wuhan (ten percent), London (ten percent), and Madrid (11 percent) are in a similar range, the official estimates that Stockholm might be approaching 40 to 60 percent immunity by June are even harder to believe.

So... what if their policy only brought them a superior way to kill old people without conferring much immunity onto the general population?

Just a (perhaps important) observation. The hope that antibodies for covid-19 confers immunity is NOT settled science for this particular virus.

Exactly

R10 all the articles I've read say you need 70%- 80% for herd immunity, not 40%-60%.

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. There is no proof yet that just because you have antibodies that it means you’re immune. Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.

[quote] Look at people who “recovered” and tested negative, and then it showed up back in their system again and they were back in the hospital.

Link, please.

I haven’t seen anything in any news articles related to this. Some people tested negative and subsequently tested positive, the thinking is the virus was still in the system, but nobody had to go back to the hospital or got sick again.

Looks like Anders Tegnell is even more incompetent than Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro. They've pulled into the lead.

CNN @CNN · 13m Sweden has revealed that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed the antibodies needed to fight the disease by late April.

LOL at this article. So you're telling me their strategy was a fail? I'm SHOCKED!

Amazing. The epicenter in the US, New York, is averaging around 19% of the population with antibodies with a severe lockdown.

Go figure that one out.

Did anyone ask Bob?

So ‘Midsommar’ was based on reality after all.

Strange to talk about ‘Herd Immunity’ when there isn’t a vaccine yet.

That was pointed out quite a while ago, when they first announced their strategy, R22. They ultimately backed off that claim, if I recall correctly, and said that they had been misunderstood and that isn't what they were going for.

Sweden did a bit better in the first quarter of this year when compared to the rest of the Eurozone (0.3% decline compared to 3.8% decline, if I recall correctly) but as other articles have shown, some of those small businesses that remained open in Sweden, softening the blow, are in trouble right now because the customers just aren't there, so Sweden may have only managed to delay the damage, not prevent it. The early estimates from a couple of different sources are that Sweden will take a 7-10% hit in GDP this year, in line with its neighbors.

It's going to be interesting in future years to see the data come out as to why certain regions were hit so much harder than others. There is speculation, for example, that Sweden didn't get hit as hard as, say, Italy, because Italy has more multi-generational housing and that family spread played a much larger role in Italy than it has in Sweden. Or perhaps it's the Chinese labor in Italy that caused so much harm. Or the fact that Sweden in winter isn't as much of a travel destination, so fewer incoming vectors.

I have absolutely no idea whether any of that is true, so treat with some skepticism, but we definitely have a lot to learn about the virus and about the response to it.

This is from late April, so it looks like I was wrong that they had backed off on the claim about her immunity.

[quote]Parts of Sweden are on track to achieve so-called herd immunity from the novel coronavirus-caused COVID-19 disease within weeks, according to the man who devised the country's unusual strategy for dealing with the outbreak.

[quote]Anders Tegnell said the Swedish capital, Stockholm, will be among the first places to develop such immunity. He told local media infection rates in the city of 2.4 million people have already started to slow, because locals have developed resistance to the disease.

[quote]"According to our modelers, we are starting to see so many immune people in the population in Stockholm that it is starting to have an effect on the spread of the infection," he said.

Ugh... "her immunity" should be "herd immunity," of course.

Interesting. Tegnell, just 10 days later.

[quote]The architect behind Sweden's coronavirus plan even said he wasn't sure if the relaxed approach is working.

[quote]"I'm not convinced at all," Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, told the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet on May 1.

WTF?

Why is anyone going on and on about this Swedish experiment?

No one’s going out to eat there or to shop either.

All in all, in nearly every measure, Sweden has failed. Its Covid death rate is among the highest in the world

It’s nowhere near the herd immunity levels you need. It’s below 10% when you need 70%.

Both in terms of economic impact and public health, Sweden is one of the worst countries in the world. Maybe in a year the story may look different, but nothing so far says they made the right decisions.

Sweden now has the worst death rate in Europe

An EU country like Sweden should be doing better. But it seems the EU cannot set health rules. Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?

[quote]Next door Norway is not in the EU; how are they doing?

Start a thread about the weather - then ask again.

I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent. What makes them like this? They're not that different from North Koreans if you ask me.

[quote]I'm fascinated by compliant populations like Sweden who seem wholly incapable of thinking for themselves and always eagerly doing what they're told with little dissent.

The same mindset as Nazi Germany, or even current Germany. It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.

[quote]It's hard for most Americans to understand, since we have an extreme independent streak.

Independence has nothing to do with it. Sweden has a miniscule, homogeneous population which promotes a compliant, we're in this together mentality. America's population is far too heterogeneous, angry, violent and distrusting for any type of social consensus to prevail.

That Dr Mengele type figure (Tegnell?) essentially did a lab rat experiment with the Swedish population. Live human beings sacrificed to test a theory.

R33, unlike you, and a lot of DLers, and right-wingers the Swedes believe in doing what's right for the common good.

[quote]and right-wingers

Throwing that one in sure threw us off the scent that you're regurgitating right wing talking points.

What the hell are you even talking about? Nothing I said was right-wing. The right doesn't believe in the common good. The anti-mask & anti-shut down bullshit tells you that.

What a weird, smug little country. How lazy are they? Put some effort into it like South Korea and Taiwan.

Sweden: 3998 deaths out of 10.23 million, median age 41.1

South Korea: 266 deaths out of 51.64 million, median age 40.8

Taiwan: 7 deaths out of 23.78 million, median age 42.5

"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Maybe, but at least through it all the latter will have done their best making sure there are adequate resources for the infected, so that in the end there are going to be fewer deaths per capita than in Sweden.

Sweden is just open to everything, aren't they? Foreigners, foreign bodies, etc.

Anyone that wants you to catch SARS-CoV-2 to save the economy is a sociopath, not an epidemiologist or an economist.

R38, to explain what I meant. This is an outsider, but based on what I've read. The Swedes don't see their government as evil, and unlike our current US administration, I don't think it is. Their government, unlike ours, didn't sacrifice people's lives in an attempt to lessen political fallout, no did they lie, cheat and steal to profit from the pandemic. I think their government made the wrong choice, but it wasn't because they're right-wingers. The population followed along because their government is mostly trust-worthy, and they believe in supporting the common good, unlike the Trump administration.

[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Do they plan to keep their borders closed?

Also, as others have said, no one knows for sure how long immunity will last for those who have been infected. Seems like a reckless plan to me.

[quote]"But they're going to achieve herd immunity soon while others are going to continue to see more infections".

Herd immunity is going to take a long time at this rate:

"On May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown."

Swedes are instinctively inclined to social distancing with many living alone. Compare with Italy where people are much warmer and touchy freely. They hug and greet each other with kisses on the cheek.

[quote] Stockholm will reach herd immunity (the 40-60% rate of infection needed to prevent spread of the coronavirus), by June

They have a week left to make that deadline, and only 7% of the country has been infected,

The Swedes are Nazis and homosexuals.

Whoops!

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

Norway has opened its borders for travel to Denmark and Germany, because these countries are actually doing something. The Swedish border is still closed though. Norwegians are pissed because they aren't able to buy cheap alcohol, beef and candy in Sweden. Grocery prices are at least 50 % cheaper in Sweden than Norway. Many Norwegians who live close to the border shop in Sweden.

Sweden, Where No Lockdown Was Ordered, Becomes Second Most-Infected Country

R51 Fucking idiots thought they were being so smart. This is what happens when you ignore science.

What could go wrong, OP?

A different approach in a different Nordic country with a much better outcome. Then, again, the level of civic mindedness in Iceland is astounding since almost the entire population is little more than an extended family.

Sweden failed. Even its health minister admits he did it wrong.

Case Closed

Sweden isn’t known for being very smart. From them letting a bunch of asylum seekers in all at once to this, it shows they have no common sense.

Isn't this about the long game and herd immunity? Of course you'd expect a higher rate of infections. Will we see Swedes crawling out of the Covid barrel sooner and with lower infection rates when the second and third waves come around, as they surely will? People seem to be in a big hurry to condemn Sweden. The jury's still out, imo. But go ahead and keep pinning your hopes on an effective vaccine with in the next year or two.

Keep pinning your hopes on no one noticing people dying until Trump gets re-elected, R57.

We're all Sweden now.

R57, oddly, Sweden’s antibody rates are about the same as every other country’s (around 10%), yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.

You need about 70% for herd immunity to begin

[quote]yet it has the second highest number of deaths after the US.

Sweden? Where have you heard that?

Herd immunity is a fantasy. There has't been any evidence that there actually is any long-lasting immunity from having the disease. Some people, yes, but not many so far. There is also more evidence of persistence of infection: some people who have tested negative for months after recovery have experienced recurrence of the disease and tested positive again. The consequences of both of these facts are pretty simple: no good can come of getting infected by SARS-CoV-2.

Also, for a disease this infectious, herd immunity would only begin at around 85% (not 70%). Big difference.

So we're no longer following the Swedish story?

Nope, it failed, as expected, so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away.

Oh, I see.

They sure found a great way to resolve the problem of the ageing population.

We are all Sweden now.

"Surge of cases in Europe since lockdown easing, says WHO"

"The body’s regional director for Europe, Hans Kluge, has told reporters that Europe has seen a surge of Covid-19 cases since countries began easing restrictions."

“Last week, Europe saw an increase in weekly cases for the first time in months,” he said, adding that more than two dozen countries in Europe had recorded resurgences of the deadly virus."

"Thirty countries have seen increases in new cumulative cases over the past two weeks. In 11 of these countries, accelerated transmission has led to very significant resurgence that if left unchecked will push health systems to the brink once again in Europe."

I hope ABBA and Pippi Longstocking are ok.

[quote]so all the idiots talking up 'The Swedish Model' shut their yaps and went away

I still enjoy 'The Swedish Meatball' and will continue consuming same.

Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.

*than

[quote]*than

*thanks

[quote]Maybe, but I’d rather live in Sweden then in America right now. Our culture is going to shit.

Gurl, you need to do more reading up on Sweden, it seems.

Life back to normal in Sweden.

[quote] The Swedish Model

Hawt.

[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.

Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?

Tegnell spotted in the wild biking to work

[quote]Why didn't he show the graves? Why didn't he show the ICUs?

Why? And should France, Spain, Italy, Belgium....countries that have has so many more deaths per capita?

You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.

Should you take a video of the bar in Florida that is the epicenter of an outbreak and declare the pandemic over? Should you post the video of the surprise birthday party that infected 18 people and say that everything is back to normal?

It is a stupid video that only shows the ignorance of the person creating it and the ignorance of those spreading it.

[quote]You missed the point, babycakes. An idiot with a cameraphone showing people at a roadside cafe in no way indicates that Sweden has gotten back to normal.

No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid. We get what he means.

My friends in Italy continually send me cell phone videos of our town. People at cafes, going shopping, restrictions eased. "We're back to normal". I know what they're saying.

[quote] No one, except dopes like you, would interpret what he's saying so literally as to mean that Sweden is exactly back what it was preCovid.

[quote] Life back to normal in Sweden.

You have a different definition of normal.

R82 you may have Aspenger's but most of us don't.

Sweden's little experiment failed miserably. Can we now stop holidng it up as some libertarian model to follow?

Check out these graphs. Don’t think this is working out for them so hot.

See how quickly you can identify Sweden on this map.

OMG the juvenile name calling on DL anymore. The place is becoming unbearable with infantilism.

.............

From a 7/30 Newsweek article entitled, "Sweden, Which Never Had Lockdown, Sees COVID-19 Cases Plummet as Rest of Europe Suffers Spike":

Amid fears over a potential second wave of the novel coronavirus across Europe, new infections in Sweden, where full lockdown measures were not implemented, have mostly declined since late June.

The number of new cases per 100,000 people in Sweden reported over the last 14 days since July 29 dropped by 54 percent from the figure reported over 14 days prior to then, according to the latest report Wednesday from the World Health Organization (WHO).

Meanwhile, other parts of Europe have reported large spikes in new cases over the same period, including Spain, France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands, which have seen increases between 40 and 200 percent over the last month, according to the latest WHO report Wednesday.

The seven-day rolling average of Sweden's daily new cases has been dropping consistently since June 29. Its daily case count has been mostly decreasing since June 24, when it reported 1,803 new infections, its largest single-day spike since the outbreak began, according to data compiled by Worldometer.

The seven-day rolling average of daily new deaths in Sweden has also been declining since around April 15, when it reported a record daily death count of 115. The country's latest seven-day rolling averages for daily new cases and daily new deaths stand at 154 and 2.

However, the Scandinavian nation ranks eighth among countries with the highest number of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people. It outranks the U.S. and Brazil, which are the world's first and second worst-hit nations in terms of total cases, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Last week Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, who has led the country's COVID-19 response, said the nation's controversial anti-lockdown strategy has been a success "to a great extent," in an interview with UnHerd.

While an official lockdown was never ordered, Tegnell noted: "We have cut down on movement in society quite a lot. We have compared how much we travel in Scandinavian countries, and the decrease in travel is the same in Sweden as in neighbouring countries. In many ways the voluntary measures we put in place in Sweden have been just as effective as complete lockdowns in other countries.

"We are now seeing rapidly falling cases, we have continuously had healthcare that has been working, there have been free beds at any given time, never any crowding in the hospitals.

"The failure [of the strategy] has of course been the death toll…that has been very much related to the long-term care facilities in Sweden. Now that has improved, we see a lot less cases in those facilities," Tegnell said.

When asked whether having a lockdown in Sweden could have made a difference on the impact of the outbreak, Tegnell told UnHerd: "It would have made maybe some difference, we don't know…we also have to look at what are the negative effect of lockdowns, and that has not been done very much so far."

The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates the number of new COVID-19 cases in the U.S. states and the European Union.

Sweden has reported nearly 79,800 confirmed cases, as of Thursday, according to Johns Hopkins University. Last month, Sweden was the second most-infected country per capita in the world.

Instead of a lockdown, Sweden aimed to develop "herd immunity," hoping that an increased number of people exposed to the virus will help to prevent a second wave of infections.

Several academics as well as teachers and parents in Sweden have previously spoken out against the country's anti-lockdown strategy and the risks imposed on children's health, among other issues.

As of Thursday, there are nearly 1.8 million (1,704,897) confirmed cases reported in the European Union/European Economic Area and the U.K., according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

More than 17 million people globally have been infected since the virus was first reported in Wuhan, China, including over 4.4 million in the U.S. Over 9.9 million globally have reportedly recovered from infection, while over 667,600 have died, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

The graphic below, provided by Statista, illustrates U.S. states with more than 100 COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people in the past week.

Has anyone else checked in on Sweden yet? They are down to zero covid deaths now.

It's too late for us to be Sweden or Italy here, assholes.

We have 5,000,000 cases, we have 50,000 new cases every day, and 1,000 deaths every day and dumb cunts everywhere who refuse to wear masks or show five minutes of common sense.

Stop trying to make Sweden happen, it's not going to happen.

Only 10% of Swedes wore masks. The big difference is that we have a larger population and shitty healthcare.

We would move there except for the horrible weather and bad food.

[quote]Only 10% of Swedes wore masks. The big difference is that we have a larger population and shitty healthcare.

I suspect our obesity rate is a bit higher than Sweden's as well.

Some of these recent articles that are 'promoting' Sweden's methods of dealing with COVD are nothing more than propaganda by certain people who have a particular agenda to push.

It is important to remember that Sweden doesn't have much high density population and have recently taken measures to protect the elderly. Sweden like everywhere else in the world is nowhere near 'herd immunity'. Their new cases may not be rising at the levels of other European countries but people are generally practicing social distancing, working from home, etc.

At the end of the day you can't really compare countries with COVID or any other illness.

Although Swedish sizemeat is legendary, a fabulous eldersister sizemologist told us that in her extensive experience Copenhagen has the most magnificent massive sizemeat!

The Swedish Health Minister himself their approach was a mistake. While the economies around Sweden are opening well, Sweden remains mainly closed.

End of story

Sweden’s immunity rate is around 10%, which is where it is around the world.

Herd immunity requires about 70%

And given that most people only maintain the antibodies for COVID-19 for a couple of months there will never be herd immunity unless something else like T-cells kick in and prevent reinfection. But all that T-Cell stuff speculative at the moment.

Retired English physician comments about mask insanity

Sweden really got a special one in this Dr Mengele clone. He won't stop.

Sweden is dumb,,,,, now theyr fukd with high death rates.... dumb fuks

Deaths in Sweden for the last 3 weeks have been well under 5 a day. Mostly 1 or 2 or zero. Their per capita death rate is still lower than places like Spain, Italy, Belgium, the UK...places that had total lockdowns. In all of these months the number of deaths in Sweden under the age of 50 is a grand total of 70.

Right, because dead old people don't count.

R105 You might want to speak to Andrew Cuomo about that.

Why would I want to talk to Cuomo about R104's disregard for the lives of old people?

R107 If you are so concerned about the welfare of old people, rather than focusing on Sweden , I suggest you take a look at why over 6,000 people died in the nursing homes of NY. That is even more than total deaths in Sweden.

R108, I'm referring specifically to R104's dismissal of the death of people over the age of 50 as if their deaths don't matter.

People die everyday for all sorts of reasons. About 32,000 people over the age of 50 died during the 2019 flu season in the US. 32,000 old people. Did you give a rats ass about it? But suddenly you're concerned about some deaths in Sweden. What a joke.

I have this weird superpower where I can be concerned about more than one thing at a time. At the moment I'm concerned about R104's cavalier dismissal of the death of old people as if they don't matter.

The flu deaths of old people last year didn't matter to me, just as much as they didn't matter to you.

So you're just going to keep telling lies and deflecting instead of being a man and standing behind what you said.

The one who is deflecting is you. Let me ask again: " About 32,000 people over the age of 50 died during the 2019 flu season in the US. 32,000 old people. Did you give a rats ass about it?"

And as far as 2020 goes and the deaths of old people, you really should be more concerned about the hoofs number of 6,000 old people dead in NY nursing homes alone.

Sweden has done better than many countries. And as it stands now, the number of deaths a day are 1 or 2 or zero.

And as far as daily new cases go... you should be concerned about France and Spain where they are skyrocketing. That's not happening in Sweden.

hoofs...spellcheck....should read "horrible".

Again, you don't what I'm concerned about, other than your dismissal of elderly deaths as unimportant. Stand behind what you said or sit down and shut the fuck up.

Old people die everyday of one thing or another. I’ve yet to encounter anyone who is immortal. If you are worried that no one will care if you die or not because you’re old, seek professional help. Younger people dying is more tragic. Their lives were cut short and they’ve left a grieving family behind, so people will be more affected by an eight year old dying over an eighty eight year old dying. Sad but true.

R116 Please post where I wrote that "elderly deaths as unimportant"

Thanks in advance.

R114, are you R104?

During the last week new cases in Spain average about 4,000. That's a country that has a strict lockdown. Sweden about 200. Even if you take into account population size, Sweden's daily case rate is much lower.

But yeah, lets criticize Sweden.

"had a strict lockdown."

People are just pissed that the Swedes aren’t suffering.

R122 Its politics. Sweden doesn't fit the agenda. People don't like that.

Coronavirus: Sweden's economy hit less hard by pandemic

not sure this is backed up by the data

[quote]Coronavirus: Sweden's economy hit less hard by pandemic

Gee, what a surprise!

Oops don't mention "no masks" to the American gays - they're so keen on them they're wanking into them at this point.

Sweden: population 10 million Confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infections: 85,219 Confirmed SARS-CoV-2 deaths: 5.790

Australia: population 25 million Confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infections: 23,989 Confirmed SARS-CoV-2 deaths: 450.

Yeah, Sweden's doing a real bang-up job, huh?

Btw, 60% of Australia's infections and deaths have been a result of the recent second wave of infections in Melbourne.

Euro countries cannot be compared to Australia an isolated island. Idiot.

[quote] Yeah, Sweden's doing a real bang-up job, huh?

Yes. "CoV-2 deaths: 5.790" isn't so terrible. Not enough to grind the country to a halt, walking around like zombies in masks...and the number are higher than some places due to a blunder with old people's homes early on.

People have been conned into thinking masks make things safe.

[quote]the number are higher than some places due to a blunder with old people's homes early on.

"Blunder"? That's a nice euphemism - more like State-sanctioned euthanasia! Nursing homes were instructed not to send their elderly COVID-19 patients to hospitals but to instead "make them comfortable" at their with pain medicine while they died from lack of treatment.

Barbaric. Fuck Anders Tegnall. i

R129. Australia is a continent. Idiot.

Is it possible that Sweden has achieved herd immunity, which might explain its lower rates?

Seems very unlikely, but I'm just an anonymous nobody, so what do I know?

R132 Australia is both a continent and an island. It is classed as the world's biggest island.

Just further to some of the comments above it is really unfair to compare Sweden & Australia. Sweden population's is less than half of Australia. on a relative small piece of land bordering two other countries (Norway & Finland).

Stockholm and Gottenburg, Swedens two largest cities have a combined population of just under 1.6 million people.

Sydney & Melbourne may have populations of 5.5 million & 5 million respectively but they are two of the largest cities in the world given the amount of land mass each city have.

It is simply impossible to compare the two countries COVID0-19 infection or death rate.

Having said all that I think the road Sweden has taken in relation to COVID is inhumane in the extreme.

[quote]It is simply impossible to compare the two countries COVID0-19 infection or death rate.

Yeah, looking all those stat's it would seem logical that Australia's infection rate per capita should be WORSE than Sweden's (bigger cities for the disease to spread).

What could possibly explain the difference, hmm? How about this: Australia took a civilized, modern-medicine approach to the pandemic while Sweden took the Nazi/Ayn Rand approach?

R136 Following your logic Spain, Italy the UK, Belgium took an even more Nazi/Ayn Rand approach. Their numbers are worse.

[quote]Having said all that I think the road Sweden has taken in relation to COVID is inhumane in the extreme.

It has had fewer deaths per capita than some other major Euro countries with fewer new cases as other countries see theirs rising.

All without a severe lockdown and a less impact on the economy.

This is not a person who cares about facts or science.

[quote] walking around like zombies in masks

[quote] People have been conned into thinking masks make things safe.

He's just repeating right-wing talking points.

He's a troll.

R139 The Nordic countries are full of right wing trolls?

Why are you assuming the person being quoted is from a Nordic country?

I'm not assuming that....but masks are shunned in the Nordic countries. So I guess they're all Trumpers too.

[quote] He's just repeating right-wing talking points. He's a troll.

NO, you're repeating the left. You don't have one original thought in your head along with the inevitable "troll" insult thrown in at the end.

Keep hiding behind your mask, Mary and believing they will make you safe.

You're a dumb gay American clone - all your "views" on the world are laid out for you and you repeat them ad infinitum.

That's a ridiculous logical fallacy. All ducks are birds, but not all birds are ducks.

[quote]So I guess they're all Trumpers too.

Trumpers. Trolls.

Gee, I sure am original!

[quote] NO, you're repeating the left.

No, I'm repeating the science. Masks help prevent the spread. And putting one on in no way stops me from living a normal life and in no way makes me a zombie.

So I repeat: you are a troll.

[quote]That's a ridiculous logical fallacy.

What do you expect from an idiot?

[quote]So I repeat: you are a troll.

Right, because that's your only response to someone who thinks differently from you.

Pathetic.

Calling someone a "troll" is a mantra by some.

[quote] Right, because that's your only response to someone who thinks differently from you.

No, I responded to your argument first.

You can pretend all you want that people are just calling you names, but the fact is your arguments are crap and they have been refuted with facts.

[quote]Calling someone a "troll" is a mantra by some.

It's all they know ...along with "you're blocked!" & FF.

BIRD brains.

[quote]No, I'm repeating the science. Masks help prevent the spread.

Meanwhile over in the Netherlands...

"The Dutch government on Wednesday said it will not advise the public to wear masks to slow the spread of coronavirus, asserting that their effectiveness has not been proven."

From r152's article:

[quote] RIVM chief Jaap van Dissel said that the organization was aware of studies that show masks help slow the spread of disease

[quote] He argued wearing masks incorrectly, together with worse adherence to social distancing rules, could increase the risk of transmitting the disease.

So, it's not that masks don't slow down the disease; it's that people don't wear them properly and don't social distance.

[quote]He argued wearing masks incorrectly, together with worse adherence to social distancing rules, could increase the risk of transmitting the disease.

Therefore, in a real world application, he believes masks are not effective.

Wouldn't it be easier to continually repeat to stupid people, through the news for example, how to wear a mask properly since wearing it properly DOES reduce the rate of transmission?

[quote]Therefore, in a real world application, he believes masks are not effective.

He believes his fellow Dutch citizens are idiots who can't be trusted to follow simple directions.

Masks are little worn throughout Northern Europe.

[quote]He believes his fellow Dutch citizens are idiots who can't be trusted to follow simple directions.

He has said no such thing.

it's not mentally taxing to wear masks correctly and adhere to social distancing guidelines. If you think your people can't manage it, then yes, you believe your people are idiots.

Yeah, right I'm sure Americans, the Spanish, the Brits, the French, the Italians... are so much more diligent in wearing masks correctly.

COVID-19 situation in the WHO European Region

Note the 14 day increases country by country. Scroll down graph on the left.

Gee....shouldn't Sweden's case numbers be going through the roof?

[quote]Gee....shouldn't Sweden's case numbers be going through the roof?

Why? Their immediate neighbors' aren't -- though their numbers are appreciably higher than Norway and Finland.

Why?? Considering that Sweden did not have a severe lockdown and masks are not required....why aren't their numbers spiking? They should be sky rocketing. Denmark up 131%.

Finland up 122% Norway up 146%

Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020.

NO ONE WANTS GO TO SWEDEN as theyr fukd with such hi rates per capita

R166 Their per capita rates are less than Italy, Spain, UK, Belgium. And not much higher than the US.

[quote]Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020.

Sweden records IT'S highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020.

What country hasn't?

What, are people supposed to live forever?

[quote]What, are people supposed to live forever?

No, but I would have liked a little longer.

[quote]What country hasn't (recorded its highest death tally in 150 years)?

Most African countries haven't.

Neither have most Asian countries.

[quote]Sweden records IT'S highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020.

You lost me at "IT'S"

R172 Maybe someday DL will add an edit feature.

[quote]Most African countries haven't.

It's very weird what's happening in Africa. Even if you let for testing not being at the same level with rich countries, the deaths just aren't there and would have been impossible to ignore.

The BBC...August 20th:

"Germany has reported its highest daily infection rate for the coronavirus since April"

"Spain and Italy also logged their highest daily figures in months on Wednesday and cases are rising steadily in France"

But most interesting of all is this:

"Whenever there is a jump in cases, it does not take long for someone to start talking about a second wave. But the truth is we are still in the first wave in Europe. The wave is being suppressed, but it is still there."

"What gets less attention is the fact that it is falling in some places too – Sweden and Portugal are both examples of this over the past month or so."

Gee, I wonder why Sweden's falling numbers get little attention by the media...

"Coronavirus: Some European countries see coronavirus spikes of more than 70% - here's what's happening where." See the interactive map. Compare Sweden to its neighbors.

The map that says Sweden's infections per 100,000 is still higher than its neighbors even after their larger increases last week?

The numbers of its neighbors are rising much, mach faster. And in some countries that had had the most severe lockdowns, the numbers are going through the roof. See Spain.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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While many European countries are seeing new cases surge to levels not seen since the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic, Sweden – whose light-touch approach has made it an international outlier – has one of the continent’s lowest infection rates.

Sweden’s 14-day cumulative total of new cases was 22.2 per 100,000 inhabitants on Tuesday, against 279 in Spain, 158.5 in France, 118 in the Czech Republic, 77 in Belgium and 59 in the UK, all of which imposed lockdowns this spring.

Twenty-two of the 31 European countries surveyed by the ECDC had higher infection rates. New cases, now reported in Sweden only from Tuesday to Friday, are running at roughly the rate seen in late-March, while data from the national health agency showed only 1.2% of its 120,000 tests last week came back positive.

Sweden’s coronavirus death toll remains more than five times higher than Denmark’s and 10 times that of Norway and Finland, but lower than some countries that imposed lockdowns, such as the UK, Spain and Italy.

I've visited Sweden several times over the last few years and I had an erection for most of my visit. The people (men) are so attractive and they age well. They are also usually quite open to new experiences. I sleep with a nice young man in Stockholm who considered himself to be straight but thought he would try anal just to make sure.

If I were considering a move to Europe, I would want to summer in Sweden and winter in northern Italy where the men also jaw dropping gorgeous.

[quote] who considered himself to be straight but thought he would try anal just to make sure

Hilarious.