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Judge declares Oregon Gov. Brown's coronavirus restrictions 'null and void'

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — A county judge has declared Oregon Gov. Kate Brown’s coronavirus restrictions “null and void” because she didn’t have her emergency orders approved by the Legislature.

Baker County Circuit Judge Matthew Shirtcliff made the ruling Monday in a lawsuit brought by churches that had sued saying the social-distancing directives were unconstitutional.

The suit had also argued that emergency powers only last for a month and after that Brown would have needed legislative approval. The judge agreed.

Brown said she would immediately appeal the ruling to the state Supreme Court to try to keep the emergency orders in effect.

“This will ensure we can continue to safeguard the health of all Oregonians — including frontline health care workers, those living in nursing homes, workers in agriculture and food processing plants, and Oregonians with underlying health conditions –– while the legal process moves forward,” Brown said.

Ray Hacke, the attorney who represented the plaintiffs in the case, said in a phone interview Monday the ruling invalidates Brown’s ban on churches gathering for worship but also the entire stay-at-home order, Hacke said.

Common Sense intervened after the Sacramento-based Pacific Justice Institute filed the case earlier this month on behalf of Oregon businesses, expanding the scope, he said.

“The stay-at-home order is no longer in effect. It is invalidated. If people want to get their haircut, they can. They can leave their home for any reason whether it’s deemed essential in the eye of the state or not,” he said.

He added that the ruling was a vindication not just for freedom of religion, but for all Oregonians’ freedoms.

Shirtcliff, the judge, was the district attorney of Baker County from 2001 until Brown appointed him judge last September, with the appointment having taken effect on Nov. 1.

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by Anonymousreply 15405/23/2020

OP =

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by Anonymousreply 105/18/2020

This is big.

The courts do not look kindly on extended violations of civil liberties, even in a pandemic.

Expect more judges, liberal and conservative, to rule that the lockdown is unconstitutional.

by Anonymousreply 205/18/2020

Fine. Let em all get sick and die.💁🏻‍♂️

by Anonymousreply 305/18/2020

Oregon total number of deaths 138

by Anonymousreply 405/18/2020

Oregon total number of deaths 138 and rising

We're not safe until there is a vaccine but by all means, go bowling with your buddies tonight.

by Anonymousreply 505/18/2020

Everyone must be a shut-in like me or we're ALL GONNA DIE!

by Anonymousreply 605/18/2020

It’s really a procedural decision.

The governor simply needs to get approval of the legislature to work around this.

by Anonymousreply 705/18/2020

Yeah, the Oregon House and Senate are both Democratic. This won't be too much of an impediment.

by Anonymousreply 805/18/2020

Why doesn't she just convene the legislature (virtual is necessary) for a vote? A similar situation exists in CA. If the order is deemed illegal post-facto, doesn't this open the state government up for lawsuits?

by Anonymousreply 905/18/2020

[quote]Oregon total number of deaths 138 and rising.

Duh. The number of deaths are rising everywhere unless you get them down to zero day after day and the virus is gone.

Have fun waiting for that to happen wherever you are.

Meanwhile: the number of daily deaths and cases in Oregon are trending downward.

by Anonymousreply 1005/18/2020

[quote]We're not safe until there is a vaccine but by all means, go bowling with your buddies tonight.

So stay home.

Please.

by Anonymousreply 1105/18/2020

Again, you can see how the right wing thinks the economy will come roaring back. They firmly believe this. They have no idea what a consumer based economy does and what no confidence means. Even if just 25% stayed in and didn't resume spending pre-pandemic, we are going to hurt. But I'm being generous saying 25%. Spending won't rebound for a long long time and that is assuming there is no second wave or things don't start getting worse.

by Anonymousreply 1205/18/2020

This lawsuit was about churches; all retailers state-wide have been given a green light to re-open.

The Oregon Supreme Court is pretty liberal and will knock this down in a second.

by Anonymousreply 1305/18/2020

Please PLEASE all you right wing nuts please go out and resume your lives. You're FREE now. Go throw a huge "Own the Libs" party with as many people as you can find. No masks. They're for pussies.

Meanwhile, the Left just wanted more testing and a safe, responsible reopen.

by Anonymousreply 1405/18/2020

[R14] Does being Left equate to having immunity from Covid-19?

by Anonymousreply 1505/18/2020

R7 She won't get the approval of the legislature and she knows it.

by Anonymousreply 1605/18/2020

With a Democratic supermajority, she can get anything she wants out of the legislature. But this is headed to the Oregon Supreme Court.

by Anonymousreply 1705/18/2020

R15 Not with the crazy righties out there doing stupid shit cuz they're prez told them to.

by Anonymousreply 1805/18/2020

[R18] Ahem...thanks for the clarification.

by Anonymousreply 1905/18/2020

R18 I'm going to Oh Dear myself. THEIR

by Anonymousreply 2005/18/2020

[quote]Go throw a huge "Own the Libs" party with as many people as you can find. No masks.

Unless we're prepared to stay entirely inside our homes until a vaccine is (hopefully) developed, encouraging anyone to go without a mask in public is a danger to us all. I'd rather try to convince anti-maskers that mask wearing is a common good. Of course, we first have to convince them that a common good is a common good.

How about this: More than 95% of the residents of Hong Kong, a densely populated city of 7.8 million, immediately donned masks upon first hearing of coronavirus in their city. They weren't asked by their government to do it, they did it on their own, and they continue to do it. They have had four coronavirus deaths.

by Anonymousreply 2105/18/2020

R21 If you think being rational with them will help more power to you and good luck.

by Anonymousreply 2205/18/2020

[R21] Numerous articles have appeared about the Hong Kong flu of 1968-69, which claimed 100,000 American lives at a time when the country had just 200 million people. Woodstock took place during this period. The Hong Kong flu was not politicized in terms of simplistic Right/Lefts paradigms. Pandemics are not new, but lockdowns are. To argue that stay-at-home orders are the only possible strategy to deal with a pandemic flu is wrong-headed and without historical precedent, especially given the relatively low mortality rates and our ability to identify and quarantine vulnerable groups.

But I get it that you don't actually think for yourself. It's much easier for you to parrot political talking points with snide and superior non-arguments and shoot down any legitimate opposition.

by Anonymousreply 2305/18/2020

It's ironic that the Left's thinking has evolved from "trust no one over 30" and "question authority" in the 1960's to "do everything the government tells you to do without questions or you're a Trump-loving idiot" today. That's no going to persuade anyone.

by Anonymousreply 2405/18/2020

R23, you can write.

by Anonymousreply 2505/18/2020

Those who know Oregon well, what's Baker County like?

Once, when I was waiting for a dental appointment YEARS ago, like pre-Trump, I remember reading a magazine about the history of white supremacy in Oregon. How it became a stronghold for sometime.

Anyway, stay safe, Oregonites. We're one pacific coast!

by Anonymousreply 2605/18/2020

[R25] Thanks, baby!

by Anonymousreply 2705/18/2020

R23 and R24

Best posts ever.

by Anonymousreply 2805/18/2020

Oregon = blue state.

by Anonymousreply 2905/18/2020

R25

You succinctly explain why the lockdown of young healthy people is a ridiculous overreaction.

by Anonymousreply 3005/18/2020

R25

You succinctly explain why the lockdown of young healthy people is a ridiculous overreaction.

by Anonymousreply 3105/18/2020

I live in Oregon and Baker county has a relatively small population. Glad to be in a state that takes this virus seriously. We're in the process of slowly opening up those areas, which probably includes Baker county, within the state with low or zero reported cases.

Whether legal or not, the orders issued by Gov. Brown keeps us safe. Churches can still hold services, though may need to have several services each Sunday to limit the number of people in the room at one time. Is this too much to ask? Most of these small towns have congregations so small they can hold services and still be within the guidelines.

by Anonymousreply 3205/18/2020

"Whether legal or not, the orders issued by Gov. Brown keeps us safe."

What the fuck!

by Anonymousreply 3305/18/2020

Baker County is in the more conservative eastern part of the state, over by Idaho.

by Anonymousreply 3405/18/2020

[QUOTE]Baker County is in the more conservative

Say no more.

Good luck to them lol.

by Anonymousreply 3505/18/2020

R29 Oregon is a blue state, barely. The Willamette Valley which includes Portland, Salem & Eugene is solidly blue, but the coast and eastern side of the state are mostly red. CANDIDATE PARTY VOTES PCT. E.V. Hillary Clinton Democrat 1,002,106 50.1% 7 Donald J. Trump Republican 782,403 39.1 — Gary Johnson Libertarian 94,231 4.7 — Others Independent 72,594 3.6 — Jill Stein Pacific Green 50,002 2.5 —

by Anonymousreply 3605/18/2020

I see the right wing trash is still calling this a flu. FF and banned, motherfucker at 23. You're pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 3705/18/2020

Breaking news from KPTV Portland - the Oregon Supreme Court just ruled against that judge, and put back into place Gov. Kate Brown's orders. Thank God! Reporting from a senior citizens' mobile home community in Hillsboro, I'm ....

by Anonymousreply 3805/18/2020

She's actually been pretty popular in the Inland Valley (the most populous part of the state, along the Willamette River--including Portland, Salem, and Eugene) because of her extremely tough approach to the shutdown.

Oregon used to be a purple state, but it has been very blue for the last 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 3905/18/2020

R39 she's not really that popular, even amongst a lot of democrats. If you read the comment section of any news story, or social media, people have really negative reactions to her, even people who vote deomcrat.

by Anonymousreply 4005/18/2020

[quote] I see the right wing trash is still calling this a flu.

You're right. They're very different things.

"Half the people in America do not get a flu shot, and the flu is far deadlier" Cooper noted. "So if you're freaked out at all about coronavirus, you should be more concerned about the flu and actually do something about it, which is get a flu shot." --- Anderson Cooper

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by Anonymousreply 4105/19/2020

[quote] the Oregon Supreme Court just ruled against that judge, and put back into place Gov. Kate Brown's orders

Looking it up that's correct as far as it goes but still a bit misleading. This is a temporary stay of the lower court's order.

The next step is for attorneys from both sides to submit responses to the Supreme Court related to the governor's request to vacate the preliminary injunction Shirtcliff issued. Those responses are due by May 22, according to the decision by Thomas A. Balmer, presiding justice for the Oregon Supreme Court.

by Anonymousreply 4205/19/2020

[quote]I see the right wing trash is still calling this a flu.

They're trying really hard to minimize this. But the facts are against them:

The flu has killed 2,200 Michiganders since 2000. Coronavirus topped that in a month.

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by Anonymousreply 4305/19/2020

[quote]preliminary injunction Shirtcliff issued.

I wonder if he’s related to Heathcliff.

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by Anonymousreply 4405/19/2020

That was on March 4 r41. A LOT has happened since then you fucking numbnuts.

Surely you're not that stupid.

by Anonymousreply 4505/19/2020

I think he was trying to be snarky about Anderson being wrong.

by Anonymousreply 4605/19/2020

Thank you Captain Obvious.

by Anonymousreply 4705/19/2020

You are very welcome.

Though I’ve been demoted. I’m now Lieutenant Obvious, unfortunately.

by Anonymousreply 4805/19/2020

R41 links to RCP (Right wing Cunts Puking) as his source. I rest my case. R41, sit down and shut up, troll.

by Anonymousreply 4905/19/2020

FINALLY reason and sanity prevail over fascist hysteria and diktats.

by Anonymousreply 5005/19/2020

[quote] FINALLY reason and sanity prevail over fascist hysteria and diktats.

Are you referring to the original court decision or the state supreme court decision?

by Anonymousreply 5105/19/2020

[quote]to rule that the lockdown is unconstitutional

All these white Republicans bitching about their constitutional rights. Meanwhile, they've done nothing but try to deny the rights of anyone who isn't a straight white Rich Republican male. They want to tell women what they should do with their bodies. They don't want to give gays the right to adopt, they wanted to amend the Constitution so they couldn't marry. They've treat blacks like second class citizens since they arrived in shackles.

But suddenly everyone should be so concerned about the government interfering because they can't eat out at a fucking restaurant for a couple of weeks! Or how dare that Caliegh can't get her fucking nails done this month! What a travesty!

And this is just the first step. Next they will be protesting over the required use of masks (I've already seen many of them bitching about it on Facebook). And why not? Their leader in chief doesn't wear one.

by Anonymousreply 5205/19/2020

[quote]Meanwhile, they've done nothing but try to deny the rights of anyone who isn't a straight white Rich Republican male.

We've been mishearing them this entire time. They've been talking about their Constitutional [italic]Whites[/italic], not rights. Silly us.

by Anonymousreply 5305/19/2020

[quote]Caliegh can't get her fucking nails done this month!

With all of that hair coming out of her ears, Caleigh's nails are the least of her problems.

by Anonymousreply 5405/19/2020

How dare they dissent from my bigoted, assumptive beliefs. How DARE they!

by Anonymousreply 5505/19/2020

r52, Did the lower court's order specify only straight white men could go outside ?

by Anonymousreply 5605/19/2020

I'm so tired of people calling this the typical flu and acting like they were welded into their homes. When a new virus pops up, and spreads this quickly across the globe, yes you do react with stricter measures. It's not just about deaths, or preventing everyone from getting it -- we don't know much about it yet. There could be lifelong associated complications in those that recovered. They've seen some evidence of this.

No, lock down forever isn't an option, but these bitches were being bitches 1 week into this. It's the same crybaby, Ayn Rand minded morons, as always.

I noticed they got a mouth on them when it comes to "muh freedumbs", but didn't say shit when Republicans were raiding the treasury and selling their personal stocks, hiding the facts for weeks. The crybabies didn't protest for better testing, or other common sense measures, instead, not wanting to be inconvenienced at all. I'm in a strict lock down area, from day 1, and it's nothing like these sociopaths say. Everyone is still allowed to go out shopping, for drives, go to the parks, except for the most nonessential gatherings (dining in, movies, bowling, etc.) NOTHING THAT SIGNIFICANT CHANGED, especially nothing major to justify calling being cautious, as being a "shut in".

With these types of people, it doesn't matter if it's a lock down, or simply wearing a mask, they'll still bitch. That's who they are. Sign a waiver to not get treated, or STFU with the poor me, because you can't go sit in a restaurant.

by Anonymousreply 5705/19/2020

I guarantee if trump said, “I’m trying to lock down the country to protect everyone but the Dems are fighting me on it. They want you all to get infected! Stay in your homes unless it’s absolutely necessary,” these idiots would be at their doors ready to shoot their own grandmother if she had the gall to be walking down the street.

by Anonymousreply 5805/19/2020

If people would turn away from the manipulative fear-stoking reports in the media and the shrieking headlines to engage in more thorough fact-based research, they'd see the percentage of deaths assigned to Covid is still remarkably lower than many many other causes of death, per day. Seeking out dissenting data doesn't mean the current contagion isn't serious or life-threatening, it is, but for fuck's rein in the hysteria already.

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by Anonymousreply 5905/19/2020

...for fuck's sake rein in the hysteria already

by Anonymousreply 6005/19/2020

The lawsuit in Oregon was brought on behalf of churches. Church services around the world are notorious spreaders of the virus.

There haven't been many cases of infection out there in Baker County, but it only takes one infected person at a church service in Baker City and half the city could be infected within a week. It's not hysteria, it's plain science.

The hysteria is the reaction from people who can't tolerate having to change their traditional church service for just a matter of weeks or months without throwing a hissy fit. The remaining restrictions in rural Oregon are likely to be dropped in a matter of weeks - during the summer at the latest - and yet they're filing lawsuits.

by Anonymousreply 6105/19/2020

I saw this governor interviewed early in the pandemic and she was doing all she could to keep the people of Oregon safe. She also sent ventilators to Andrew Cuomo since they didn't need them.

by Anonymousreply 6205/19/2020

And here we go:

Fat ass deplorable in Las Vegas bitches about Costco taking away his cart because he refuses to put on a mask. Tries to shame the employee by videotaping it.

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by Anonymousreply 6305/19/2020

Hopefully, the same thing happens to California's lockdown orders.

by Anonymousreply 6405/19/2020

[R52] It's people like you who've turned the once great Democratic Party into repository for race-baiters and lunatics. You could opt to refuse your stimulus check because it was funded by white people, capitalist and the fossil fuel industry. As least you'd prove that you have some degree of integrity. Asshole.

by Anonymousreply 6505/19/2020

While the churches in Oregon are suing to reopen, churches in Georgia and Texas are closing up shop again due to members of the congregation and priests testing positive. This is going to be a recurring theme across the country in areas that rushed to reopen. Hopefully the courts in Oregon will rule on the side of caution as the number of cases/deaths have been low thanks to early adoption of shelter in place rules.

by Anonymousreply 6605/19/2020

It cracks me up how dumdums like in the vid at R63 were so easily trained to respond to common sense restrictions with lines like ‘I’m not a fucking sheep.”

Do they not remember that they did not come up with that response on their own - that they read it or watched it or heard it and are parroting it like, well, a parrot?

Maybe he’s a sheep-parrot.

by Anonymousreply 6705/19/2020

[quote]Fat ass deplorable in Las Vegas bitches about Costco taking away his cart because he refuses to put on a mask.

Right-wing logic:

It's perfectly acceptable for a bakery to refuse service to a gay couple wanting to order a wedding cake.

But a bakery (or any store) refusing service to someone not wearing a face mask in the midst of deadly pandemic is totalitarianism.

by Anonymousreply 6805/19/2020

[quote]To argue that stay-at-home orders are the only possible strategy to deal with a pandemic flu is wrong-headed and without historical precedent, especially given the relatively low mortality rates and our ability to identify and quarantine vulnerable groups.

Since a) nobody is arguing that, and b) you're wrong about the "historical precedent" (see, for example, 1918), you're wrong on both counts.

What people are saying is that locking down until we are ready to do what needs to be done to manage the pandemic, mostly with "test, trace, and isolate" until a vaccine can be developed, is just common sense. It saves lives and buys time for the other practices to be put in place.

by Anonymousreply 6905/19/2020

Oregon has a low rate because she shut it down early. I live in Trump country, Oregon, and the fuckers are out with no masks or distancing, and I can't wait until more of them start dying, the conservative tears, raining.

by Anonymousreply 7005/19/2020

[quote]"Half the people in America do not get a flu shot, and the flu is far deadlier"

That's ridiculously false. COVID-19 is far deadlier than the flu. If we count flu deaths the same way we count the current virus deaths, we lose about five to fifteen thousand people a year to the flu, more or less depending on the year.

The reason that the reported annual numbers for the flu are so much higher than that is because people are using estimated flu deaths, which include, among other things, pneumonia deaths, rather than actual deaths. If you want to compare apples to apples, you have to compare 15,000 reported flu deaths a year to what is shaping up to be 150,000 deaths for the coronavirus.

by Anonymousreply 7105/19/2020

[quote](see, for example, 1918), you're wrong on both counts.

There was no national lockdown in 1918

[quote]What people are saying is that locking down until we are ready to do what needs to be done to manage the pandemic, mostly with "test, trace, and isolate" until a vaccine can be developed, is just common sense. It saves lives and buys time for the other practices to be put in place.

Not happening anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 7205/19/2020

[R72] Thankfully a voice of reason has returned.

by Anonymousreply 7305/19/2020

[quote]There was no national lockdown in 1918

There isn't a "national lockdown" today, so your point is a complete non sequitur. Back then, there were regional lockdowns, just as there are today. Again, historically, speaking, the statement above was flatly incorrect.

[quote]Not happening anywhere.

It's happening literally all over the world. It's not happening nearly as fast as it should be here, despite the best efforts of various states, largely because of the inattention, not to mention the occasional hostility, of the federal government.

by Anonymousreply 7405/19/2020

So getting the basic facts wrong is being a "voice of reason," r73?

by Anonymousreply 7505/19/2020

[quote]Not happening anywhere

It’s happening in countries around the world ... just not in the country that has long proclaimed itself the world’s most advanced nation.

by Anonymousreply 7605/19/2020

[quote]It's happening literally all over the world.

It's not happening in Europe.

They've been bickering for the last month about apps and still can't come to an agreement. Meanwhile lockdowns are coming down all the same. Too late now. The cat is out of the bag.

by Anonymousreply 7705/19/2020

It's now apparent that a certain loony contingent of DL has made Covid-19 part of their religion, conflated it with politics, and now cannot be reasoned with on the subject. Everything is reduced to easily consumed black and white moral dichotomies in which they see blindingly obvious truths while everyone else is stupid and/or motivated by nefarious designs. Have you all gotten even crazier since the lockdown? Seems like it.

by Anonymousreply 7805/19/2020

It's happening in Europe, r77. You've already proven, many times over, that you have no idea what's happening all over the world, including European countries, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and, of course, the Asian countries that have handled this pandemic far better than the U.S.

Perhaps before you post again, you should actually learn something about the topic?

by Anonymousreply 7905/19/2020

[quote]It's now apparent that a certain loony contingent of DL has made Covid-19 part of their religion

Oh, the irony, given your posts. The projection, not to mention ignorance, is so obvious, I'm not even going to bother with the details.

by Anonymousreply 8005/19/2020

[R80] Legend in your own mind.

by Anonymousreply 8105/19/2020

And there's that projection again, R81. At least I don't have to resort to some of the dumbest trolling on DL to get attention.

[quote]It's people like you who've turned the once great Democratic Party into repository for race-baiters and lunatics.

[quote]It's ironic that the Left's thinking has evolved from "trust no one over 30" and "question authority" in the 1960's to "do everything the government tells you to do without questions or you're a Trump-loving idiot" today.

[quote]It's now apparent that a certain loony contingent of DL has made Covid-19 part of their religion, conflated it with politics, and now cannot be reasoned with on the subject.

[quote]Pandemics are not new, but lockdowns are.

by Anonymousreply 8205/19/2020

[R82] She's unbalanced!

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by Anonymousreply 8305/19/2020

R79 Contact tracing is not happening in Europe. Denmark with a small population was able to do it, to an extent but the UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany are not.

Apps are still in the development stage, no country is making use of them yet. And no one is waiting for them. Easing of lockdowns, opening of borders have begun.

by Anonymousreply 8405/19/2020

Like I said...

You do like to keep proving me right, don't you? Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 8505/19/2020

Would someone explain to me how contact tracing in a city like NY would be carried out.

I'd really like to know.

by Anonymousreply 8605/19/2020

[quote]Contact tracing is not happening in Europe.

Again, you simply have no idea what you are talking about, something you've been demonstrating here for weeks. You are pretending that "contract tracing" is an all-or-nothing event that can only be done with an app. You are, of course, rather stupidly wrong.

Contact tracing is happening in Europe and it's happening in the U.S., with tens of thousands of people employed to help with this and tens of thousands more being hired.

And none of this changes the essential point that test, trace, and isolate remains the best way to handle a pandemic until a vaccine can be developed. You cannot argue with that, of course, so you will continue to play these silly games.

by Anonymousreply 8705/19/2020

R86, right now it's mostly a matter of detective work, talking to people who have been tested with the virus and tracking down whom they might have been in contact with. This isn't new, of course; people have been doing this for decades with respect to various illnesses, including STDs, among others.

As you might expect, you don't need 100% compliance to be effective. There have been studies on this which show that if you can identify as few as 50% of those infected and trace 50% of their contacts, you would have a significant reduction in transmission, a reduction that would allow the economy to reopen much more safely.

The idiots above don't want to talk about that, of course, because they want to pretend that we're all cowering in fear and want to completely lock down the country for years, until a vaccine can be developed. They are the ones who are insisting that it's black-and-white, all or nothing, rather than accepting that there are concrete steps we can take right now, metrics we can follow, well-documented plans we can use, to handle this pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 8805/19/2020

Dear, I lived in Italy for decades. I'm constantly in contact, in conversation with co workers and friends there. I read the press daily. I watch the RAI. I'll be returning there hopefully to my place there this summer.

There is no wide scale. testing. No contact tracing.

I know of only one person who has been tested and that's only because he works for our city government before the public.

by Anonymousreply 8905/19/2020

Dear, given your ignorance of pretty much everything connected with this pandemic, including the obvious ignorance documented above, I'm not sure what point you think you're making about the "constantly in contact" remark. Great, you know a few people in Italy. And this is supposed to impress us why, exactly?

You are, of course, wrong on both the testing and the contact tracing, as you would had you even bothered to do even a 30-second web search on this. You have made it clear that you prefer your ignorance, though, so I'm quite confident that you will not perform that search and you will continue to display your ignorance here for all to see, ad infinitum.

by Anonymousreply 9005/19/2020

No one is waiting for your contact tracing wet dream

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by Anonymousreply 9105/19/2020

R91, since Italy is already doing contact tracing, I'm afraid that all you're doing is continuing to demonstrate that you have no idea what you're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 9205/19/2020

For the record, Italy began contact tracing in February. Perhaps before you post again, you might want to do some basic research?

by Anonymousreply 9305/19/2020

Please note in the above article

"Both regional and international borders will open June 3, with the government eliminating a 14-day quarantine for anyone arriving from abroad."

Not even quarantine. So where is the contact tracing idiot?

by Anonymousreply 9405/19/2020

Um, r94, since none of that contradicts anything I've written about contact tracking, I have no idea what point you think you're making.

Well, other than that you're a fool, but we already knew that.

by Anonymousreply 9505/19/2020

[quote] There is no wide scale. testing (in Italy).

As of yesterday, Italy had performed more tests per million than all but five other countries.

by Anonymousreply 9605/19/2020

What's interesting is that people like our idiots above cannot argue with the basic premise that test, trace, and isolate remains the most effective tactic for dealing with the pandemic, so they have to play these silly games rather than acknowledge reality.

by Anonymousreply 9705/19/2020

Not to mention, R96, that once you have contained the virus to a manageable level, then the "wide scale testing" isn't really required anymore, since what you're testing are the resurgent outbreaks as they occur. Has Italy hit that level? It's a debatable point and one we will find out in the coming weeks.

The reason we need so many tests in the U.S. is that we clearly have not hit that point.

by Anonymousreply 9805/19/2020

R96 Italys testing has been in Lombardia and Emilia Romagnia. Do you know the figures for the rest of the country?

Besides testing is one thing, a program of contact tracing is another. And it's not happening in Italy.

Are you even able to read Italian?

by Anonymousreply 9905/19/2020

R99, we've already covered this. Italy has been contact tracing since February, and is poised to roll out their new app for even more wide-scale tracing in a couple of weeks.

As with everything you've posted on this thread, you're simply wrong. That matches your posting history, of course, since you've been consistently wrong on this pandemic for weeks. Dozen of posts and you cannot get even your basic facts right.

by Anonymousreply 10005/19/2020

Italy tried to develop an app. The project has been abandoned.

Borders are opening. No required quarantine for visitors.

No one is waiting for an app or contact tracing to open up the country.

by Anonymousreply 10105/19/2020

I can attest that support staff (i.e. non licensed office workers) in California Dept of Public Health offices are being trained right now for an all-out contact tracing blitz force.

by Anonymousreply 10205/19/2020

R101, since you seem to have so much trouble grasping this, let me put it in bold for you: [bold]Italy has been contact tracing since February[/bold].

And you still cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that test, trace, and isolate remain the best practices for dealing with the pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 10305/19/2020

Since when does some goober county judge have the power to overrule a governor's official order. I thought that would require a Federal Judge.

by Anonymousreply 10405/19/2020

And, of course, you got the information wrong about Italy's contact tracing app. The project has not only not been "abandoned," they've announced that the app is scheduled to be released by the end of May. The story was in Forbes today.

Don't you ever get tired of being 100% wrong, r101? Is it really that hard to do a simple web search before you expose yourself as a fool?

by Anonymousreply 10505/19/2020

They were ruling on a state law, R104, so it was handled in state court.

by Anonymousreply 10605/19/2020

[quote]Italy has been contact tracing since February.

Link please.

Italy did do contact tracing expirement in a town in the North. But there is no program for contact tracing. Even the app that they hoped to get going was only volunteer, a token gesture more than anything.

But no one is waiting around for that.

by Anonymousreply 10705/19/2020

Italy has been contact tracing since February, r107, as you would know had even bothered to do a minimal search on contact tracing and Italy. And the app, that you claimed was abandoned, has been modified and will be rolled out in a couple of weeks. Funny how you just randomly make up shit that is so easily debunked.

And as I've already noted above, you don't need 100% compliance or 100% accuracy on contact tracing for it to be effective.

And you still cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that test, trace, and isolate remain the best practices for dealing with the pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 10805/19/2020

R105 The app has continually been postponed. How many announcements have been made. The app is only volunteer so it truly does nothing. No one is going to bother with it. If it even ever comes out.

For an app to be effective, 80% of the population has to have it.

Not gonna happen.

In the meantime the country is open.

by Anonymousreply 10905/19/2020

R109, the story was in Forbes today. You claimed that the app was "abandoned." You were wrong. Flatly, stupidly, wrong, because you didn't bother to do even a bare minimum of research, despite posting for weeks on this topic.

And you're also wrong on that 80% number, as I already posted above. You only need 50%. I love how you just randomly make up shit rather than doing your homework.

And you still cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that test, trace, and isolate remain the best practices for dealing with the pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 11005/19/2020

[quote]And you still cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that test, trace, and isolate remain the best practices for dealing with the pandemic.

They are by far the best practices.

But the scale, organization, privacy concerns, cost, administration. make it impractical. That's why it's not happening.

by Anonymousreply 11105/19/2020

And yet many countries have managed the scale, the organization, the privacy concerns, and the administration, which is why it's being done in quite a few countries and even more are working to emulate those countries, specifically because they are "by far the best practices." As usual, you are wrong.

Don't you ever get tired of having your ass handed to you?

by Anonymousreply 11205/19/2020

[quote]And you're also wrong on that 80% number, as I already posted above. You only need 50%. I love how you just randomly make up shit rather than doing your homework.

From the BBC

Contact tracing has been credited with helping to lift restrictions in other countries, when combined with other measures. South Korea never went into lockdown thanks to an early strategy of extensive tracing and mass testing. There was manual monitoring of credit card transactions, CCTV and mobile phone tracking to piece together where people had been. The UK probably won't use that level of tracking but a widely used app might help.

However, take-up would have to be massive for the virus to be totally supressed. Academics advising the NHS estimate 80% of smartphone users - 60% of the population - would have to download and use it. For a sense of scale, it's worth considering that even a successful app such as Whatsapp has only been downloaded by 67% of UK smartphone users. People would also have to be honest about displaying any potential symptoms, and inform the NHS.

by Anonymousreply 11305/19/2020

Still waiting for that link about contact tracing in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 11405/19/2020

[quote]A second study, which used a model based on the Boston metropolitan area, found that so long as 50% of symptomatic infections were identified and 40% of their contacts were traced, the ensuing reduction in transmission would be sufficient to allow the reopening of the economy

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 11505/19/2020

"especially given the relatively low mortality rates and our ability to identify and quarantine vulnerable groups."

Relative to what, you ignorant asshole?

That's the first lie to the Trumpers' "open the economy" argument.

Oh, yeah. And that their freedom to endanger to the larger population is super important because of their personal inconvenience.

Like the rest of us are having a huge coronavirus party without them.

by Anonymousreply 11605/19/2020

[quote]Still waiting for that link about contact tracing in Italy.

I already told you how to find it. By the way, your own cut and paste proved your 80% number wrong, since it said, "60% of the population," which is reasonably close to the 50% that the study I cited showed. You're still fixated on the app rather than on the number of ways that contact tracing is being implemented around the world.

As I already noted above, this isn't new and it's standard medical practice for far more than just a pandemic. The U.S. is already employing thousands of contact tracers and will be massively ramping those numbers up in the weeks ahead, including 20,000 in California alone.

by Anonymousreply 11705/19/2020

He's just one of the sociopaths who has been fixated on the "above 70" deaths, R116. Apparently, when you reach a certain age, your life isn't worth anything anymore.

by Anonymousreply 11805/19/2020

R115Studies are nice aren't they.

Meanwhile in the real world. Where's the app and who is using it? So far no one in Europe. And no one is waiting for it.

by Anonymousreply 11905/19/2020

Could someone tell me how contact tracing would work in NYC?

by Anonymousreply 12005/19/2020

Yes, R119, studies are nice, since they demonstrate quite clearly what needs to happen "in the real world."

And, of course, you're completely wrong about the various apps and about the various ways that contact tracing is already happening. It's interesting just how determined you are to remain ignorant and deny reality. I think you're up to over 100 posts at this point, most of them foolishly wrong.

by Anonymousreply 12105/19/2020

r120, see R88.

by Anonymousreply 12205/19/2020

[quote]But the National Association of County and City Health Officials estimate that the nation will need 30 contact tracers for every 100,000 Americans to handle the pandemic.

Could someone do some quick math?

How many people would be needed?

by Anonymousreply 12305/19/2020

R123, that's why you lock down first, so that you *don't* need that many and you can focus on the new outbreaks as they occur. See, for example, how many people New Zealand has allocated for tracing.

I'm sorry, is this really so difficult for you to understand? Do we need to use smaller words?

by Anonymousreply 12405/19/2020

By the way, California Governor Gavin Newsom has already announced that they will be recruiting up to 20,000 people to perform contact tracing, 50 tracers per 100,000 residents.

Now what was that you were saying about how it just couldn't be done?

by Anonymousreply 12505/19/2020

[quote]What people are saying is that locking down until we are ready to do what needs to be done to manage the pandemic, mostly with "test, trace, and isolate" until a vaccine can be developed, is just common sense. It saves lives and buys time for the other practices to be put in place.

Locking down until we are ready to "test, trace, and isolate" ? Hon,. we're already reopening. No one is waiting for you.

By the time Newson choses, trains and deploys 20,000 people the lockdown will be mostly a memory.

I just read an update on the on again, off again, Italian app. Still no release date. The end of May? I'll believe it when I see it.

Meanwhile, Conte says it will be voluntary. In other words, useless. And the country certainly isn't waiting for it. The country is open.

About testing in Italy. Here's a graph that shows where testing has been carried out and how numbers can fool you. Testing in Italy has been done mostly only in two regions.

Take a look at Lazio, that's the region of Rome, an area of nearly 6 million people and densely populated.

And follow down through the rest of the country. This idea that Italy is doing massive testing is false.

And there is no contact tracing.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 12605/19/2020

#Resist turned on a dime and became #Comply.

by Anonymousreply 12705/20/2020

Rolling Stone: “The reality is we can’t just tell the whole world to stay home”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 12805/20/2020

[quote]#Resist turned on a dime and became #Comply.

The next stunt they'll try to pull is “contact tracing", even though it's too late to do that effectively.

Something to think about:

“people must be willing to cooperate, particularly if cooperating means missing work and wages — and potentially putting friends, family, and coworkers out of work for two weeks, too. "

“With so many people who are unemployed or underemployed at this point, once they have the ability to be employed, are they going to be willing to be tested?”

by Anonymousreply 12905/20/2020

[quote]Locking down until we are ready to "test, trace, and isolate" ? Hon,. we're already reopening. No one is waiting for you.

Honey, the blue states are opening up precisely because they *can* "test, trace, and isolate." That's also true of the countries who have handled the pandemic the best, something you still don't want to acknowledge.

[quote]By the time Newson choses, trains and deploys 20,000 people the lockdown will be mostly a memory.

Honey, they've already hired many of them. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

[quote]I just read an update on the on again, off again, Italian app. Still no release date. The end of May? I'll believe it when I see it.

Still can't bring yourself to acknowledge you were lying, can you? So much for that imagined "update" of yours. And, of course, you still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that Italy has been contact tracing since February, no app required.

[quote]Meanwhile, Conte says it will be voluntary. In other words, useless.

See above, moron. 50% coverage is all that is required. The only thing "useless" here is your ignorance and denial.

[quote]And the country certainly isn't waiting for it. The country is open.

Moron, that's because Italy bent the curve downward and is ready to "test, trace, and isolate."

[quote]And there is no contact tracing.

Yes, dear, there is. I know that you don't like reality but continuing to deny it just makes you look more and more foolish. And desperate.

[quote]The next stunt they'll try to pull is “contact tracing", even though it's too late to do that effectively.

Um, no. It's not too late to employ an effective strategy, which is why you're seeing literally every country implement it. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? You're just randomly making up bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 13005/22/2020

[quote]“With so many people who are unemployed or underemployed at this point, once they have the ability to be employed, are they going to be willing to be tested?”

You might want to learn some history before you post again. People like you existed in 1918, too. How did that second wave work out? And what did cities and states do during that second wave?

by Anonymousreply 13105/22/2020

The latest from Anthony Fauci

Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage”

“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,”

“But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”

No one is waiting for for testing, testing, testing, trace, isolate in order to reopen.

by Anonymousreply 13205/22/2020

Actually, R132, the states and countries that are opening up, particularly those doing so with the most success, already have plans in place for testing, tracing, and isolating, and we've seen those plans in actions in multiple places across the U.S. and across the world.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

by Anonymousreply 13305/22/2020

Italy's Immuni app is already considered a flop.

Exactly as I predicted it's end of the month launch has been postponed once again.

No one will be downloading it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 13405/22/2020

R36 the majority of the state lives in the Willamette Valley, so it's not "barely" a blue state—population is what counts, not square milage. The entire population of eastern Oregon (including Baker, Malheur, Harney, Grant, Umatilla, and Union Counties) is less than that of a single Portland suburb. It's a lot of land with a very sparse population. Most of Brown's critics are in eastern OR, and they are a vocal minority. I was born and raised in Portland, and it's always been this way—there has always been a divide between the two sides of the state, with central Oregon being somewhere in the middle (though probably leaning more blue these days, given all the people who have flocked to Bend). My dad was born and raise din Los Angeles until he was in middle school, after which his family relocated to eastern OR; it was a culture shock for him, and he understandably left immediately after high school.

by Anonymousreply 13505/22/2020

*Shrug* See the Forbes article from a week later, R134. You can whine all you like but you were wrong above when you claimed that it had been "abandoned," just as you were hilariously, and embarrassingly, wrong when you said that nobody is doing contact tracing, thereby revealing you know absolutely nothing about health care.

by Anonymousreply 13605/22/2020

Not to mention that your own link shows that private alternatives are going to pick up the slack. So much for that talking point of yours.

It's funny, you know. All these posts of yours, over a period of weeks, and you haven't even bothered to do even a bare minimum of research on this topic. You know nothing; you've learned nothing; and you are absolutely determined to keep it that way. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 13705/22/2020

"Immuni, what ever happened to the app that was to guide us starting today"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 13805/22/2020

Uh-huh, r138.

*Shrug* See the Forbes article from a week later. You can whine all you like but you were wrong above when you claimed that it had been "abandoned," just as you were hilariously, and embarrassingly, wrong when you said that nobody is doing contact tracing, thereby revealing you know absolutely nothing about health care.

Not to mention that your own link shows that private alternatives are going to pick up the slack. So much for that talking point of yours.

It's funny, you know. All these posts of yours, over a period of weeks, and you haven't even bothered to do even a bare minimum of research on this topic. You know nothing; you've learned nothing; and you are absolutely determined to keep it that way. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 13905/22/2020

[quote]Not to mention that your own link shows that private alternatives are going to pick up the slack.

Do you know Italy? Do you speak Italian? Have you ever lived there?

Yeah, right, private business is going to pick up the slack.

See you next year!

by Anonymousreply 14005/22/2020

LOL... I see you continue your fact-free posting habit. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? About anything?

It's funny, you know. All these posts of yours, over a period of weeks, and you haven't even bothered to do even a bare minimum of research on this topic. You know nothing; you've learned nothing; and you are absolutely determined to keep it that way. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 14105/22/2020

Oh, and R140, it was your own link that talked about the private sector, not mine. Perhaps you should learn to read the articles you link to?

by Anonymousreply 14205/22/2020

The sordid tale of Italy's contact tracing app in detal..

The funny thing is, Italy doesn't even have a wide scale testing program ready yet. Even if the app were available it would be useless.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14305/22/2020

*Shrug* See the Forbes article from a week later. You can whine all you like but you were wrong above when you claimed that it had been "abandoned," just as you were hilariously, and embarrassingly, wrong when you said that nobody is doing contact tracing, thereby revealing you know absolutely nothing about health care.

Not to mention that your own link shows that private alternatives are going to pick up the slack. So much for that talking point of yours. And, of course, you're wrong about the testing, as well.

It's funny, you know. All these posts of yours, over a period of weeks, and you haven't even bothered to do even a bare minimum of research on this topic. You know nothing; you've learned nothing; and you are absolutely determined to keep it that way. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 14405/22/2020

Even more interesting is how you don't want to even consider those countries who have successfully navigated the pandemic, have implemented a common-sense strategy, have bent the curve downward, and have successful test, trace, and isolate programs in place.

So, basically what you're saying, if anything you wrote was correct, is that Italy is moving too soon and it should not be doing so without those other components you (incorrectly) claim it doesn't have. Personally, I'm quite prepared to accept that Italy is moving too soon so, for once, we agree.

by Anonymousreply 14505/22/2020

[quote]and have successful test, trace, and isolate programs in place.

Ah yes....successful test, trace, and isolate programs in place.

LOL. Like France?

France testing per capita: 21,218

US: 42,050

Read about France's wonderful response to the crisis.

And as the article states: "Today, as it has begun loosening one of the world’s strictest lockdowns"

Gee...what happened to test, trace , isolate?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14605/22/2020

[quote]Ah yes....successful test, trace, and isolate programs in place.

Yes, dear, like several Asian countries, like New Zealand, like Australia, like several American cities, like most of the Scandinavian countries, with the exception of Sweden, of course, like....

It's funny how you just cannot bring yourself to admit, despite weeks of posts on this, the existence of countries that are doing it right. Hell, it took weeks before you could even bring yourself to acknowledge that test, trace, and isolate was the right thing to do.

Maybe by August, you'll have finally learned something.

by Anonymousreply 14705/22/2020

By the way, R146, posting an article about a French shortage of PPE *really* doesn't support your point about, well, anything. Tell me, do you even bother to read the articles you link here?

by Anonymousreply 14805/22/2020

Just as posting an article about a country not handling the pandemic well completely undermines whatever other point you think you're making. So you think posting articles about failures indicates ... what, exactly? That every other country should emulate the failures?

Tell me, do you even have two brain cells to rub together?

by Anonymousreply 14905/22/2020

So that's the testing and contact tracing situation in France and Italy. Meanwhile they're reopening.

On to the UK.

"Plans for contact-tracing in doubt as app not ready until June"

"Deputy chief scientific adviser suggests track-and-trace stopped in March due to lack of capacity"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 15005/22/2020

The Citizen app is offering contact tracing. You can volunteer to do it. Citizen is an app that alerts you of crimes near you.

Even though I think contact tracing is a good idea, I'm not volunteering to do it. It's way too Handmaids Tale for me.

by Anonymousreply 15105/22/2020

R36 writes,

[quote]Oregon is a blue state, barely.

It has carried for the Democrats, in U.S. presidential elections, for the eight consecutive elections of 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016.

Four of its five congressional districts are in the Democratic column.

It has elected Democrats to the state’s governorship in the nine consecutive midterm elections of 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010, 2014, and 2018.

Oregon was the No. 13 best-performed state for the Democrats in the United States presidential election of 2016. That made it the Republicans’s 38th best state. (Since 1992, no presidential winner has carried more than 32 states.)

Oregon is not “barely” blue.

Oregon is [italic]strongly[/italic] blue.

Oregon is, just in case you actually need clarification, aligned to the Democratic Party.

by Anonymousreply 15205/22/2020

R135 and R152 I'm aware of how Oregon votes and that population wise it is strongly blue. However that population is centered in a handful of counties (Hillary only won 8 of 36 counties in 2016) and once you go outside of those blue pockets, the rest of the state is red hicksville. So while it may vote blue based on the population of (mainly) the cities in the Willamette Valley, if you travel throughout that state, you're going to travel through many more areas aligned with republican "values." That a Q supporter won a senatorial primary shows how much crazy there is in the state. Fortunately, Merkley is well liked and respected and will trounce her in the general.

-r36

by Anonymousreply 15305/23/2020

Obviously it wasn't the best choice of words to say "barely blue" as I was talking area of the state vs clusters of population. Fortunately people win elections, not land.

also -r36

by Anonymousreply 15405/23/2020
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