Serving up this steaming pile of
Celebrity Gossip
Gay Politics
Gay News
and Pointless Bitchery
Since 1995

Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Israel, Simple Question: Good or Bad?

I am an American Born Jew who has always been raised to believe in Israel, that Jerusalem is the Holy Land and all should be done to keep the small state going. But the last few years I have been confused by the politics, the scandals and corruption we've heard about, and Israel's embrace of Trump. I thought Netanyahu had been indicted for corruption, embezzlement, and a new leader was to be voted in.

Could someone with a confident handle on the situation please explain it to me. I especially welcome any international DL'ers reading this. Any DL'ers in Israel?

Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 109a day ago

Sorry, link didn't go thru first time....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 105/17/2020

Bad.

by Anonymousreply 205/17/2020

Trolls are not even trying any more.

by Anonymousreply 305/17/2020

I love the State of Israel

by Anonymousreply 405/17/2020

[quote]I am an American Born Jew

by Anonymousreply 505/17/2020

I loved visiting Israel. Tel Aviv is ok, but Jerusalem is awe inspiring.

People like to criticize Israel, but Israel is the only country in the Middle East where people have freedom of religion and free expression.

And all of those hot young Jewish guys in military fatigues. Sigh.

by Anonymousreply 605/17/2020

I honestly don't think there is a simple answer. Way too much history and politicizing has made this a very complex issue. I hear Tel Aviv is nice.

by Anonymousreply 705/17/2020

I’ve read 25 books on this subject. Israel good, Obama bad.

by Anonymousreply 805/17/2020

At least the israelis don’t throw gays off roofs, like the Muslims do. But sure, let’s support all the pro muslim drag queens (zero logic there).

by Anonymousreply 905/17/2020

Whataboutism R9. We aren't discussing g Muslims. We are discussing Israeli corruption.

by Anonymousreply 1005/17/2020

R10 The practice of throwing gays (or anyone) off of buildings is wrong no matter who is doing it, so your Whataboutism point is moot.

by Anonymousreply 1105/17/2020

Principle of Israel as a country - good

Current government of Israel - bad

by Anonymousreply 1205/17/2020

I don't think Golda Meir would recognize Israel as it is today...and it is not for the better.

by Anonymousreply 1305/17/2020

OP the fact that you come here and ask a bunch of these knuckle heads to label anything good or bad for you just goes to show your a fucking idiot. I hope you get baked in an oven. I really do. You're just plain stupid.

by Anonymousreply 1405/17/2020

This should have been a poll.

by Anonymousreply 1505/17/2020

Wrong R15! This should never have been asked at all. The OP is a dirty filthy idiot that should be turned over to the Nazi's right away. To have no respect for the Jewish people and ask strangers about the state of Israel instead of learning about it for himself is a disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 1605/17/2020

Mind the apostrophes, R16.

by Anonymousreply 1705/17/2020

Ah, I see matt, the psychopath has arrived.

by Anonymousreply 1805/17/2020

We have an antisemitic jew hater in the chat...

by Anonymousreply 1905/17/2020

"The two have been on friendly terms since Netanyahu's stint as Israel's ambassador to the United Nations. For years they kept in close touch. Every Sunday afternoon, New York time, Netanyahu would call Silverstein. It made no difference what the subject was or where Netanyahu was, he would always call, Silverstein told an Israeli acquaintance."

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 2005/17/2020

Very good! Visited Israel 4 years ago. Loved it! There is so much history, culture, excellent food....a young, very civilized, vibrant country.

The Jews were there thousands of years before the islamic conquest. The Jews deserve a country of their own again.

by Anonymousreply 2105/17/2020

R19 you're an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 2205/17/2020

Bad. All states built on religion are.

by Anonymousreply 2305/17/2020

[quote]Israel, Simple Question: Good or Bad?

Israel, Simpleton's Question: Good or Bad?

There, fixed it for you.

by Anonymousreply 2405/17/2020

The Israeli people are fine. It’s their government that is corrupt. I do wish the Jews and Palestinians had better relations.

by Anonymousreply 2505/17/2020

Israel good for Jews, bad for Palestinians.

by Anonymousreply 2605/17/2020

[quote] The Jews were there thousands of years before the islamic conquest. The Jews deserve a country of their own again.

How do you respond to people who post things like this?

by Anonymousreply 2705/17/2020

It isn't a simple question. Just phrasing it that way indicates that you're baiting people.

Nothing about Jewish history has ever been "simple".

Why would anyone have expected a Jewish homeland in the 20th century following nearly successful genocide to be?

by Anonymousreply 2805/17/2020

[bold] Russia, Simple Question: Good or Bad?

I am an American Born Red Diaper Baby who has always been raised to believe in Russia, that Moscow is the Holy Land and all should be done to keep the people's state going. But the last few years I have been confused by the politics, the scandals and corruption we've heard about, and Putin's embrace of Trump. I thought Putin had been indicted for corruption, embezzlement, and a new leader was to be voted in.

Could someone with a confident handle on the situation please explain it to me. I especially welcome any international DL'ers reading this. Any DL'ers in Russia?

Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 2905/17/2020

OP, I would suggest that DL is really the wrong place for this--you'll attract all the wrong posters and your thread will most likely be deleted. I would find a forum (even a subreddit) where people will not be automatically suspicious of your motives like on DL, are interested in this particular subject, and are willing to engage with you and answer your questions.

by Anonymousreply 3005/17/2020

R7, R12, and R13 for the win.

by Anonymousreply 3105/17/2020

Something to keep in mind about the Israeli government is that it's the product of blatant right-wing corruption and electoral fraud. That's why Netanyahu is still practically untouchable. I think regular Israelis have also lived in fear for many years, both manufactured by the Israeli right wing and generated organically by Hamas chucklefucks lobbing rockets into Israel proper, and that hardly helps the political situation either.

Hamas being in charge in the Gaza Strip is one reason why I'm not as pro-Palestinian as I otherwise might be. Nothing will get better until Hamas gets the boot.

by Anonymousreply 3205/17/2020

That's sort of the problem in a nutshell R32

There's no one to make peace with even if you wanted to.

Hamas (Gaza) and Fatah (West Bank) trust each other less than they trust the Israelis and there are plenty of Hamas supporters in the West Bank and Fatah supporters in Gaza, so it's not like you can strike a deal with the more reasonable Fatah and be done with it so long as Hamas is running Gaza

by Anonymousreply 3305/17/2020

Netanyahu is Israel’s Trump—a fascist who made tons on being the president. He’s done whatever the ultra right wing has wanted just to keep power.

The right wing hates gays, by the way. They would be thrilled to throw gays off buildings. Instead they kill gays during the gay pride parades

by Anonymousreply 3405/17/2020

Israel was a good idea until Bibi ruined it

by Anonymousreply 3505/17/2020

R35 Just to be fair, it isn't all about Bibi. Most of the Haredim are mad, and the Orthodox Chief Rabbinate has too much power. It's a lopsided situation which many Israelis are not fond of.

by Anonymousreply 3605/17/2020

Israel...land-grabbing mutilators.

by Anonymousreply 3705/17/2020

IMHO, I think creating Israel will be remembered as one of the greatest errors in history. For the last 72 years we've been dragged into a fight that we have no business in. Neither side wants to get along, they both want to be the dominant force in the region.

by Anonymousreply 3805/17/2020

IMHO, I think creating Israel will be remembered as one of the greatest errors in history. For the last 72 years we've been dragged into a fight that we have no business in. Neither side wants to get along, they both want to be the dominant force in the region.

by Anonymousreply 3905/17/2020

No one asked you for a response, R27.

by Anonymousreply 4005/18/2020

Actually, that is incorrect, R38. Israel has made numerous attempts at peace to no avail. It will never happen. Jew hatred is a fundamental tenet of islam. The islamic god instructs muslims to kill Jews wherever they find them, and the islamic god sanctifies this incitement to genocide.

by Anonymousreply 4105/18/2020

It's complicated, unlike OP's trolling.

by Anonymousreply 4205/18/2020

[quote]IMHO, I think creating Israel will be remembered as one of the greatest errors in history. For the last 72 years we've been dragged into a fight that we have no business in. Neither side wants to get along, they both want to be the dominant force in the region.

IMHO, I think creating Pakistan will be remembered as one of the greatest errors in history. For the last 72 years we've been dragged into a fight that we have no business in. Neither side wants to get along, they both want to be the dominant force in the region.

by Anonymousreply 4305/18/2020

Moot point, OP.

by Anonymousreply 4405/18/2020

R29 for the win.

by Anonymousreply 4505/18/2020

Israelies are just about the rudest people on earth. Only one step below mainland Chinese people. Their behavior is shocking.

by Anonymousreply 4605/18/2020

OP and others: you might be interested in this Oxford Union debate on the BDS ("Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions") movement between UK gay-rights and human-rights activist Peter Tatchell and Professor Alan Dershowitz:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 4705/18/2020

R46, people warned me about how rude Israelis can be. I was there for two weeks and never encountered any rudeness or hostility. They are not Greeks or Spaniards, of course, but not nearly as rude as New Yorkers can be. I felt that they just weren't very comfortable speaking English.

by Anonymousreply 4805/18/2020

R46/R48 I think that assertion is an overused generalisation. The Haredi, or Ultra-Orthodox can certainly be that way, brusque and dismissive, however many mainstream Israelis are very nice and well-mannered.

Israel is a huge melting pot: many Americans and Europeans, it isn't really fair to paint with such a broad brush. Obviously it depends which neighbourhoods you find yourself in.

by Anonymousreply 4905/18/2020

R43, that's a good point. I have met Pakistanis who are very proud of their country and I think to myself "why?". If I had to live in South Asia (and I never want to, ever), I would live in Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh (yes, even Bangladesh) over Pakistan.

by Anonymousreply 5005/18/2020

I think it's somewhere between good and bad. Why? The Israel of the 1960's and 1970's when they forged a peace with Egypt. And later gained the respect of several other border nations. In fact the only one they could never achieve peace with was the Palestinians.

by Anonymousreply 5105/18/2020

Whatever you think of Netanyahu, he managed the pandemic much much much much much much much much much much much much better than his buddy Trump.

They has strict lockdowns, anyone coming in from overseas was quarantined for 14 days on arrival and with a population of 9 million (more than NYC) there have only been 276 deaths so far.

And that's with the Haredim (Hasids) more or less ignoring lockdown orders to the point where they had to send in the army to patrol their neighborhoods to enforce it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 5205/18/2020

I do fear for Israel's international reputation with its goals to annex the entire West Bank. Zionist has become a dirty word, and a moniker used improperly. Without hesitation I believe Israel is THE Jewish homeland, and it has every right to exist, despite many mistakes made along the way.

It was originally proposed that only Area C was to be annexed, (I don't support any of it) now with Trump's tacit approval, Bibi and others are emboldened to go for this land grab, some advocates say even the majority of Palestinians in Area C shall not be automatically eligible for Israeli citizenship, even if they would choose that. That is unconscionable to me. There once was a pact not long ago, where progressive parties would refuse participation in any coalition government if this were to come to pass.... Sadly, it seems many have reneged. Despite boundaries being a difficult matter, many better solutions have been presented to this.

I hope more brilliant minds prevail, or else Israel shall lose more support from progressive Jews who live throughout the world.

No one can foster goodwill or trust on the road to peace, and a two-state future whilst Israel continues down this path. International law and common sense must prevail to ensure fairness.

by Anonymousreply 5305/18/2020

R47, thanks for posting that. I'm a big fan of the Oxford Union debates. I somehow missed that one. It was very interesting, intelligent and informative, on both sides of the debate.

by Anonymousreply 5405/19/2020

This news story sums up why nothing about the situation is easy:

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) sent a planeload of humanitarian aid for Palestinians to fight Covid.

The EIthad Airlines plane landed in Israel because they have an international airport.

The Iranians immediately denounced the UAE and accused them of betraying the Palestinians.

Hamas does whatever Iran says, so they're not happy about it either.

And once again the Palestinian people wind up in the middle, losing.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 5505/19/2020

I'm an American-born Israeli. Been living between the US and Israel until I was about 14 - my parents couldn't decide where the f they wanted to live, but they finally settled in Israel to be close to the rest of the family. Here's my random insights/rants as an "insider": - Politics: BAD. The political situation with the neighboring countries and especially the Palestinians is like an extremely tangled spider web, I don't believe it could be resolved. People here don't have much hope for "peace", it has become some sort of a mock word even. Just plain distrust between the two "sides". I think the last time people really felt optimistic was in the early 90's when Rabin was prime minister. Then that orthodox wack-job assassinated him in the the middle of Tel Aviv and took all sign of hope down the shitter with him. - Occupation: BAD. I wouldn't say the Palestinian population is comprised of only saints and martyrs, they're a society like any other. But the occupation situation is a major fuck-up, it really does corrupt your soul. Many Israelis have an innate superiority complex and it's frustrating to see that Zionism is still considered a good thing and so many proudly describe themselves as true believers. You learn in school about the 19th century european colonialism of Africa and its atrocities, but the common slow-brained Israeli will probably fail to see the similarities. - IDF: BAD. I did my mandatory service. Nothing violent - I was in the navy intelligence. During my training they gave us big ass M-16's and took us to the shooting range often. I cried the first time I shot it. And it's so powerful it gives you nasty bruises to your chest and arm. I will never forgive the state for tricking me, and all the 18 year old kids fresh out of high school, straight into this joke of "serving your country". It's been some years since I last put on those retched uniforms, I hope today's kids are better informed and worldly to know that usually this is such a waste of time, so if they want out, they can get a pass even before they're enlisted. - Tel Aviv: GOOD. I've been a resident for almost 10 years now, after a few years in Jerusalem (BAD). It's expensive as fuck, the summers are brutal, it could get extremely crowded and as an avid cyclist, the drivers are the worst and there's not a single day when I don't fear for my life. But it's a small city so you can walk or cycle almost everywhere, you have every type of cultural activities you can think of, it feels very diverse, it attracts the most interesting people and the food is great. It always felt like a much smaller version of NYC to me. - People: dunno really. I live in my little left-wing bubble and rarely venture out of it. There's a general feeling that most Israelis are basically helpless morons, the prime example is Netaniahu keeping getting re-elected time and time again. So it's better to my mental health to keep away from the news and not socialize with the so called morons too often. People are indeed rude, in general, it's even considered a virtue. But it's more like funny-rude, you just say whatever's on your mind and don't have too much respect for other people's personal space. The social distancing of the last few months made thing a little better in that respect, but I guess people will be quick to forget and be back to hi fiving strangers in no time.

by Anonymousreply 56Last Friday at 12:15 AM

They may not throw people off the roof but they happily murder Palestinians the natives of the country they are stealing.

by Anonymousreply 57Last Friday at 12:27 AM

Ignorant Jew-hating trash squat on their fat thighs to shit on Jews/Israel. Guess the "Hasidics" threads all got deleted.

by Anonymousreply 58Last Friday at 12:38 AM

R56 Cool perspective. Thanks for sharing.

[quote] IDF: BAD. I did my mandatory service. Nothing violent - I was in the navy intelligence. During my training they gave us big ass M-16's and took us to the shooting range often. I cried the first time I shot it. And it's so powerful it gives you nasty bruises to your chest and arm. I will never forgive the state for tricking me, and all the 18 year old kids fresh out of high school, straight into this joke of "serving your country".

Sadly, there seems to be a move to introduce compulsory military service here in the U.S., too, that goes far beyond selective service. I was stunned when Susan Rice was out promoting her book and casually weaving in how necessary she found it that all citizens be required to serve and none of her interviewers would push back. Total madness.

by Anonymousreply 59Last Friday at 12:59 AM

on my first trip I was aware of something so subtle...that the Jews were so mentally and physically relaxed and not on their guard as they usually are in Europe. I think of my Dad who rarely spoke of his Jewishness in an effort to protect us his kids.

It has big issues, and it depends who you talk to from the Palestinian side on how they feel about the place. Educated and living in Israel, it's great;poor and living in Gaza you burn with hatred. An hour ago I was in contact with a relative in Johannesburg and watched a video of the shooting of Jews by Einsatzgruppen in a village in Latvia where my family came from. Among those shot that day were 3 family members. I understand why Israel exists. I wish to fuck people could just get on and live in peace. On the whole, Israel is good.

by Anonymousreply 60Last Friday at 1:12 AM

On the whole Israel is bad. They are a land of land stealers and murderers.

I do not understand why Israel exists. There is no reason for them to be occupying the land. Many have Russian roots, I am sure Putin could find a village to park them in so Palestine can have their country back.

by Anonymousreply 61Last Friday at 2:50 AM

[quote] I am sure Putin could find a village to park them in

That man is INCREDIBLE!

by Anonymousreply 62Last Friday at 7:35 AM

I admire Israel but I can't stand the hypocrisy of some jews. They demand that white countries get flooded with africans immigrants and yet they want Israel to remain an ethnostate. Why can't whites have a place of their own just like jews have Israel?

by Anonymousreply 63Last Friday at 7:41 AM

[quote] Why can't whites have a place of their own just like jews have Israel?

The Anti-Semite has arrived.

by Anonymousreply 64Last Friday at 7:44 AM

R53 I too believe that if you can keep and defend your land, the. It’s yours. Many people make the argument that because Jews once’s lived there, that they have a forever claim to the land. No other country in the world operates under that rule. I’m seriously confused about the idea that Jews were owed old land back when people from all over the world aren’t able to make similar claims.

That said, the people are good. The government is to conservative for my taste.

by Anonymousreply 65Last Friday at 7:46 AM

Jews have Israel, africans have Africa and asians have Asia. Why can't whites have a place of their own? What the hell is anti-semitic about that?

by Anonymousreply 66Last Friday at 7:58 AM

[quote] africans have Africa and asians have Asia.

Africa and Asia are continents consisting of various nationalities and ethnic groups. Not sure what your point is.

by Anonymousreply 67Last Friday at 8:05 AM

R63 Because historically, White Christians oppressed the Jews throughout Europe for centuries, mostly because the Christians blamed the Jews for crucifying Jesus. The whites have also been financially oppressed by Jewish bankers for hundreds of years by usury. That was a big selling point for Hitler, because the Jews actually did have a monopoly on the banks, and still do in many ways. A weakened white race is more preferable to some Jews than a strong white race who may potentially oppress them once again in the future. Many Jews believe that they are superior because they're God's "chosen people". I've met some Jews who believe that whites and blacks intermarrying is a good thing for Jews, who don't support miscegenation in their own society. The belief is that race mixing produces confused people with no roots who are easily manipulated. Granted, not all Jews feel this way, but it's hard to say just how many do. The Hasidic Jews in particular are very racist.

by Anonymousreply 68Last Friday at 8:07 AM

R67: It's a white supremacist who wants America for whites. These sub-humans do this in every thread about Israel because they're cretins. FF and ban it.

by Anonymousreply 69Last Friday at 8:08 AM

R69, not sure how that person hasn't been banned yet. They should at the very least be banned for blatant stupidity.

by Anonymousreply 70Last Friday at 8:10 AM

I'm not american. I'm talking about Europe. Europe should be a continent for europeans, just like Israel is a country for jews.

by Anonymousreply 71Last Friday at 8:11 AM

[quote]The whites have also been financially oppressed by Jewish bankers for hundreds of years by usury. That was a big selling point for Hitler, because the Jews actually did have a monopoly on the banks, and still do in many ways.

Ignorant, anti-Jewish scree. The same as used by Hitler, who learned it from 1,700 years of Church-fomented Jew hatred.

Bunch of little Adolphs and Heinrichs all over this thread.

by Anonymousreply 72Last Friday at 8:13 AM

Some of my favorite artists are jews. I worship Barbra Streisand, Sondheim and James Gray. Jennifer Jason Leigh is one of my favorite actresses. I just wish jews could stop demanding that Europe gets flooded with african immigrants. That's all.

by Anonymousreply 73Last Friday at 8:16 AM

The founding of Israel was a half-assed project, if you're going to take over someone else's country, you need to crush the opposition utterly, so they're under no illusions that the place belongs to you now.

by Anonymousreply 74Last Friday at 8:26 AM

Uh this is history, R72. The Jews were barred from most professions due to that antisemetism you're referring to. The only vocations available to Jews in Europe for centuries were as bankers and jewellers. How else could Hitler have been so effective at convincing the Nazis that Jews were the cause of their devastated economy?

This is from the Jerusalem Post: [quote]As mentioned previously, it is no secret that the Jewish people and the diamond industry have a long history together, dating back as far as the middle ages and onwards. During this time, Israelis were dotted all around Europe, with many of the countries they occupied imposing harsh limitations on the types of industries that Jewish people could work in. Jews were prohibited from buying land and furthermore from engaging in any agricultural practices, which drove them to professions that did not carry such strict limitations. One main industry that remained untouched by such strict and prejudice limitations across Europe was finance and trade, including such specific professions as loans, banking, and the trading of gemstones and diamonds. This therefore led to a significant portion of Jewish people working within the finance and trade industry, which is where the relationship between diamonds and the Jewish people first started to grow.

Next time, do your due diligence, otherwise you risk sounding like a moron.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 75Last Friday at 8:26 AM

R70: You ban it, by clicking the ban button. Or block button. But banning sounds more forceful and final. But make sure you FF that Nazi crap before the banning. Too bad there's no Beating button, some of these assholes sure deserve one...

by Anonymousreply 76Last Friday at 8:29 AM

Jews have no idea that if whites get screwed, they will also get screwed. Jews have much more in common with whites than with other races. We should be in this together.

by Anonymousreply 77Last Friday at 8:32 AM

WTF, when did this site turn into Stormfront?

by Anonymousreply 78Last Friday at 9:32 AM

Israel is an evil occupier.

by Anonymousreply 79Last Friday at 12:08 PM

R78 Didn't you know that far left Progressives hate Jews? They promote Islam like there's no tomorrow.

by Anonymousreply 80Last Friday at 1:42 PM

OP - something doesn't feel quite right about your post.

If you are truly an "American Born Jew" as you claim, I doubt that you'd be so naive on this subject that you'd need to turn to DataLounge to help you form an opinion. You would be either directly or indirectly exposed to Jewish culture, attitudes and views on this matter.

Is this an attempt to bait people into speaking badly about Israel?

by Anonymousreply 81Last Friday at 1:45 PM

R80 - it is possible to embrace Islam without hating Jews. True progressives don't feel hate toward anyone - with the possible exception of the deplorables.

by Anonymousreply 82Last Friday at 1:50 PM

R77, be Jewish is a religion not a “race”

by Anonymousreply 83Last Friday at 2:25 PM

"I am an American born Jew" is the new:

"Lifelong Liberal Democrat here who voted for Obama twice, but Hillary/Biden..."

by Anonymousreply 84Last Friday at 2:27 PM

OP, every country has its share of scandals and shitheads. Why people expect Israel to be any different, I have no idea. People who live in glass houses...

Let's also take into account that the far Right has risen all over the world. Extremists are running the show now. Again, Israel is no different in that regard. There will always be people who jerk off over nationalism. The Right has used that for decades. The shittier a country gets, the more its citizens wish to be lied to, told they're #1 and how wonderful everything is. The Right will give that to them. The Left on the other hand will throw reality in people's faces, hoping to make real change, real progress. Average citizens just don't want to deal with that. It's too hard. Most human beings are incredibly lazy.

by Anonymousreply 85Last Friday at 2:45 PM

I actually had a socialist tell me that Israel shouldn't exist, its mere existence is antisemitic - it was created because countries didn't want Jews living with them, and the belief that Jews need a homeland is basically telling Jews that they're not wanted in other countries. This person wasn't a Jew, btw. Mental gymnastics working overtime.

by Anonymousreply 86Last Friday at 2:48 PM

Honestly, I don't care about the politics and I love Israel. The lady I am rooming with and I took a trip there in September and got a gorgeous suite in Jerusalem and we wandered around and you simply can't compare the level of civilization with what the Arab neighborhoods look like. The Arabs were welcoming and hospitable but overall, we were incredibly impressed and glad we took the trip.

by Anonymousreply 87Last Friday at 2:50 PM

[quote]Why can't whites have a place of their own just like jews have Israel?

Whites have Scandinavia.

by Anonymousreply 88Last Friday at 3:05 PM

Bad obviously.

A religious state that is institutionally racist, which implements an Apartheid regime against the indigenous Palestinian population is inviting, and deserves conflict.

Israel is an Apartheid state.

Boycott, divest, sanctions.

by Anonymousreply 89Last Friday at 3:18 PM

Scandinavian countries are full of african immigrants, just like every other western european country. Asshole. Whites need an ethnostate of their own, just like jews have Israel.

by Anonymousreply 90Last Friday at 3:28 PM

Idiot/r90, the majority is white. Israel also has Muslims living in its country.

by Anonymousreply 91Last Friday at 3:36 PM

I visited Israel last year and saw police and the military almost every place I visited. If it takes that much force to keep the peace it can't be good. Is it Israel's fault? That's hard to say because there has been internal fights and also with Israel's neighbors for as long as I can remember.

OP's statement that Jerusalem is the Holy Land is difficult to see if you visit the city. Jerusalem is a divided city and occupied by various religious and political groups.

Given Israel's current government, now you have a potentially corrupt government in a chaotic region. This isn't good for anyone. As for Netanyahu, this is just another conflict that will run its course and a new government will take over at some point. Having Trump involved in any way isn't good for anyone.

by Anonymousreply 92Last Friday at 4:18 PM

By the standards of modern progressive Western democracies in peaceful regions, Israel is only moderately open, liberal, progressive and free from corruption etc, and accepting of LGBT people. They dont yet have gay marriage, but have granted some limited recognition of civil unions since 1994. they do have Pride parades etc in Tel Aviv

But people forget that Israel is and has been effectively in a state of war since its inception, and constantly under attack from all sides. And it was born as the result of the Holocaust, with all the emotional and spiritual baggage that comes with quite understandably. And additionally it has a significant proportion of the population that is very religious and conservative. When you take all that into account, it becomes clear that it is surprising that it is as good as it is. It is far better on LGBT rights for instance than any other country in its region. Compare apples with apples - Israel should be compared with other countries in the Middle East, and also countries that are currently at war or experiencing unrest/ terrorism.

Yes, Israel has issues, and major flaws. It has a culture than can at times appear harsh. But name a wartorn country that doesnt. And name a country in the Middle East that is anywhere as good to live in as an openly gay person

by Anonymousreply 93Last Saturday at 3:19 AM

Britain occupied Palestine from 1918 to 1948. They sponsored the theft of the land by the Zionists in 1948. The zionists have been murdering the natives and stealing their land ever since. It is important to separate Jews from Zionists. I know of only one Jewish person in my circle who supports this terrorist nation. Even many who live there believe the Zionists who murder and steal land to be in the wrong.

by Anonymousreply 94Last Saturday at 4:00 AM

Bad.

by Anonymousreply 95Last Saturday at 4:05 AM

The Middle East is a messy, histrionic drama queen. I’m surprised there’s anyone left alive.

by Anonymousreply 96Last Saturday at 4:06 AM

Bibi reminds me of Putin in many ways. The fact that he has managed to keep power even after being brought up on a ton of charges is creepy as fuck. Before you know it he’ll be in power forever like Vlad.

by Anonymousreply 97Last Saturday at 12:48 PM

R94 is extreme, but there is some truth in what they’re saying. Most Jews I know either don’t care about Israel or believe it has the right to exist but will call out the country for how it treats non-Jews in there very only country. It’s a very fucked up situation. The bottom line is Israel exists, it’s not going anywhere. Some people still can’t wrap their heads around this.

by Anonymousreply 98Last Saturday at 12:51 PM

Israel was a decent idea in the beginning, but over the decades the suppression of the Palestinian Arabs is bad. Israel has under Netenyahu has taken much of the Palestinian territory and basically has become an apartheid state. That is why the Israelis have lost so much international support.

by Anonymousreply 99Last Saturday at 12:53 PM

[quote] Israel is only moderately open, liberal, progressive and free from corruption etc, and accepting of LGBT people.

That’s not really true. Gays have a tough time there. It’s not like living in Saudi Arabia, but it’s not paradise for them either. Israel is definitely not free from corruption. It’s hugely corrupted, especially right now. Bibi and his cunt wife should be sitting in jail cells.

by Anonymousreply 100Last Saturday at 12:53 PM

[quote] Given Israel's current government, now you have a potentially corrupt government in a chaotic region. This isn't good for anyone. As for Netanyahu, this is just another conflict that will run its course and a new government will take over at some point. Having Trump involved in any way isn't good for anyone.

Honestly, American Jews cause most of the problems in that country.

by Anonymousreply 101Last Saturday at 12:56 PM

For all the talk about it being a 'Jewish homeland', the Zionists don't want you to bring up the Canaanites and how the Jews genocided them.

by Anonymousreply 102Last Saturday at 1:02 PM

It’s not American Jews but Americans period. Even the Christian Zionists are helping to fuck up that region.

by Anonymousreply 103Last Saturday at 1:04 PM

There are two huge problems Israel has to face with any proposed solution to its Palestinian problem:

1. Gaza. Israel doesn't want it, but can't give it away because Egypt doesn't want it either. If Gaza became independent, Hamas would goad Israel into an outright shooting war that would be devastating to Gaza, and leave Israel looking like the bad guy no matter WHAT it did.

2. Right of Return. The majority of Israelis would happily agree to allow the West Bank to vote to join Israel, and give Palestinians WHO LIVE IN THE WEST BANK RIGHT NOW Israeli citizenship. Israelis might even be persuaded to cut a deal that recognized Palestinian conversions to non-Orthodox Judaism (like Russian immigrants to Israel have) to encourage cultural assimilation. The problem is, there are a lot of Palestinians who presently live in other countries, like Jordan, who'd demand the right to return and take up the same offer... and the UN would be inclined to agree with them. Israelis would NEVER agree to it.

If the West Bank joined Israel, with Palestinians gaining full voting rights in the Knesset, but with exiled Palestinians remaining exiled and Gaza out of the equation, the balance of power ends up looking something like this:

* "Jewish" parties could hold their noses and form a united (albeit extraordinarily fragile) coalition against "Palestinian" parties.

* "religious" Jewish parties could generally prevail as a plurality against "everyone else", as long as "everyone else" didn't have some single issue uniting them... a single issue that would basically never, ever happen, because it's hard enough for Israeli parties to agree about anything in the first place. When push came to shove, and it became "religious Jews" vs "everyone else", inevitably a few secular-leaning Jewish parties would side with the religious ones and give them their way.

However... if you add millions of EXILED Palestinians to the equation, the whole neat, orderly balance of power gets fucked. Former exiles would agitate against their "heretic" and "sellout" neighbors, and would shift the balance of power enough in the Knesset to throw a monkey wrench into the delicate power-balance outlined above. Furthermore, if it DID go to a vote among Palestinians, most present-day West Bank Palestinians wouldn't vote for any option that encouraged exiles to return, because it would dilute their own status quo that many have carved out for themselves. The Palestinians who left (or were expelled) were generally the most polarized and politicized. The ones who remained (or were allowed to remain) in the West Bank and prospered were the ones most eager TO bury the hatchet and prosper. If exiled Palestinians returned in large numbers, THOSE Palestinians would be the first to be on the receiving end of the returnees' wrath as perceived "sellouts".

Ultimately, Israelis have to play the long game... wait until the majority of bitter, angry exiled Palestinians have died off & their kids have established new lives elsewhere. Every year, the number of exiled Palestinians declines (death from old age, assimilation, etc), and the number of religious Jews slightly increases (due to higher birthrate). Eventually (possibly, but probably not now), the numbers will sufficiently fall into equilibrium long enough to entertain a "one state" solution involving union between the West Bank and Israel. But in any case, Gaza is likely to remain an insurmountable problem for the foreseeable future.

by Anonymousreply 104Last Saturday at 3:47 PM

Bad.

by Anonymousreply 105Last Saturday at 4:00 PM

R104 Not that I'm looking to start an argument, but who are these exiled Palestinians? You suggest there exists a " Palestinian Diaspora" on par with the Jews... I don't really like what naturally comes to mind, but it most certainly is "Johnny come lately".... Syria, Egypt, and Jordan, and many other countries did refuse mass Palestinian migration, due in part to Palestinians en masse rejecting Israeli citizenship...

I'm trying to be fair here, but I do not see the two factions as having the same history, and I'm eager to learn where PRESENTLY exactly do these Palestinians who wish for their own sort of Aliyah reside.

by Anonymousreply 106Last Saturday at 5:18 PM

The Hubris of the idea that they 'will let them join Israel'. The occupiers need to leave.

by Anonymousreply 107Last Saturday at 11:39 PM

Bad. End of thread.

by Anonymousreply 108Last Saturday at 11:55 PM

Bump

by Anonymousreply 109a day ago
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Don't you just LOVE clicking on these things on every single site you visit? I know we do! You can thank the EU parliament for making everyone in the world click on these pointless things while changing absolutely nothing. If you are interested you can take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT and we'll set a dreaded cookie to make it go away. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!