I miss Emma. It's been almost a decade since I've seen her. Can anyone fill me in on what she's up too. Oakdale just isn't the same without her.
WHET Emma Snyder
|by John Dixon||reply 364||Last Friday at 3:17 PM|
Ironic that she worked MORE on the show when she was OFF contract, than when she was ON contract
|by John Dixon||reply 1||05/16/2020|
Ain't that a kick in the cunt! Emma looks just like my next door neighbor, Rose Perini, of Bay City.
Are Rose and Emma twins?
|by John Dixon||reply 2||05/16/2020|
She called Maeve Ryan a bitch on Ryan's Hope
|by John Dixon||reply 3||05/16/2020|
Remember when Emma and Carly finally had it out, and Carly stormed off, only to return and tell Saintly Emma that her mashed potatoes were lumpy! That look on Emma's face!
|by John Dixon||reply 4||05/16/2020|
How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW? Do you think Madonna was influenced by her?
|by John Dixon||reply 5||05/16/2020|
[quote]How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW?
Hanging out with Charles Keating is likely the reason.
|by John Dixon||reply 6||05/16/2020|
Am, I the only one who didn't care for her?
|by John Dixon||reply 7||05/16/2020|
Anna Stuart met her now husband James Cromwell at Charles Keating Christmas party
Apparently Charles wife had played matchmaker thinking the two would be perfect for one another
|by John Dixon||reply 8||05/16/2020|
She sends her love.
|by John Dixon||reply 9||05/16/2020|
Shallow post: what's with Cynthia Watros and the duck face? She's purses her mouth constantly, or at least she did on her reunion show. Does she do this on camera when she plays her GH character? In the 90's on GL I don't remember her constantly putting her lips out there. She's always had a full mouth, but not duck pouting.
|by John Dixon||reply 10||05/16/2020|
Didn’t Eileen Fulton end up in financial trouble in 2008? Something with the mortgage on her NY apartment.
|by John Dixon||reply 11||05/16/2020|
Unfortunately, she’s still trying to get some more of John Dixon’s dick.
|by John Dixon||reply 12||05/16/2020|
"I'm tired. SO TIRED. I'm SICK AND TIRED of being blackmailed by everybody ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!"
What the fuck was Zimmer doing winning that Emmy? Criminal that she stole it from La Hubbard.
|by John Dixon||reply 13||05/16/2020|
Kathleen Widdoes - at the end of ATWT her face and neck were so swollen. I know she probably gained weight but some of that looked like the kind of swelling/gain that happens when one is unwell. I hope she is better now.
|by John Dixon||reply 14||05/16/2020|
They wrote off Kathleen Widdoes weeks before the final episode. I think it was a shame they didn't have her in the final episode as she was on the show for 25 years
|by John Dixon||reply 15||05/16/2020|
Holden at his hottest!
Craig at his hottest!
Iva with blond hair!
And sad news.....
|by John Dixon||reply 16||05/16/2020|
You all fled my dynamic, welcoming, THRILLING thread for....Emma?
Lady of the lake - I mean, pond? That Snyder woman?
You have ALL lost your minds.
|by John Dixon||reply 17||05/16/2020|
r17 Shut up and slice, bitch.
|by John Dixon||reply 18||05/16/2020|
Happy Thanksgiving! And don't forget who got Emma's china, bitches.
|by John Dixon||reply 19||05/16/2020|
^ It still looks so weird, seeing Todd Manning at the Snyder Farm.
|by John Dixon||reply 20||05/16/2020|
Snyderly speaking, here are MDM and LMS.
MDM looked so much like my first boyfriend.
|by John Dixon||reply 21||05/16/2020|
R20 I know many OLTL fans were pissed that he went to ATWT, since they aired at the same time in most markets. If he had gone to GL, Y&R, B&B, etc. it wouldn't have been as bad.
|by John Dixon||reply 22||05/16/2020|
I was pissed because he was there at all, r22. I hated Todd Manning.
|by John Dixon||reply 23||05/16/2020|
The second one, who turned out to be his twin, was HOT as fuck! I'm surprised no other soap had cast him before OLTL in 2003. He had been in the business since 1995.
|by John Dixon||reply 24||05/16/2020|
Lucinda dear at r17. Your thread was a rousing good time. Too rousing it seems as the police shut it down.
Take solice, the police shut down my thread as well.
|by John Dixon||reply 25||05/16/2020|
Muriel is the Mimi Torchin of DL, still pissed she didn't get to work on AMC or GL, and taking it out on soap fans ever since.
|by John Dixon||reply 26||05/16/2020|
R26 Did she try Passions?
|by John Dixon||reply 27||05/16/2020|
r21 Michael David Morrison and Susan Marie Snyder were electric together. His replacement was beyond bland -- but MDM was irreplaceable Wish Mr. Locher would get her on for a Snyder family reunion. Would love to hear what she has to say about working w. MDM. Anyone got any stories about him ?
|by John Dixon||reply 28||05/16/2020|
Thoughts on Greg Marx?
|by John Dixon||reply 29||05/16/2020|
When Kathleen Widdoes was young I thought she looked like Jean Simmons, with maybe a little bit of Audrey Hepburn from certain views.
|by John Dixon||reply 30||05/16/2020|
Time is a bitch . . .
|by John Dixon||reply 31||05/16/2020|
When Locher did the Santos Family Reunion did anyone ask Paul Antony Stewart how big his husband is?
|by John Dixon||reply 32||05/17/2020|
[quote]Thoughts on Greg Marx?
Ah, the sexy Tom Hughes. I saw him first on DOOL and was excited when he showed up in Oakdale.
The switch to nonsexy Scott Holmes was really jarring.
|by John Dixon||reply 33||05/17/2020|
Whoa, honey! Who is PAS' hubby?
|by John Dixon||reply 34||05/17/2020|
[quote] How did you all feel about Simm's??
|by John Dixon||reply 35||05/17/2020|
Just to follow up on Eileen Fulton's fanbase from last thread...
When I did the online thing, back before someone invented the word blog, half my emails were from people wanting to see Lisa in another one of her romantic storylines. This would have been from right after the Martin Chedwyn story until I stopped doing my blog a few years later. Some ladies just adored Lisa.
|by John Dixon||reply 36||05/17/2020|
R34, PAS is married to stylist Michael Cook. There was a post about their wedding in an earlier Midwestern thread. This is from some other internet forum:
[quote]Paul Stewart, 48, and Michael Cook, 32, first spotted each other through a crowd in 2010. (Paul: “It was a lesbian bar at 4 a.m. — isn’t that how we all meet our husbands?”) Five years later, Paul, an actor, proposed to Michael, a stylist and fashion editor, while they watched a meteor shower from the backyard of their Catskills house — which became the obvious choice for the wedding venue. “We spend a lot of time in the city, but this is our home,” Michael says. “Every weekend, we were mowing the paths and weeding the gardens to get it ready.” Their 50 guests gathered around a newly planted tree for the ceremony; for the reception, they followed the grooms down a path to find the caterers roasting chicken and whole lamb over a fire, the tables lined with moss. “People were traveling from all over,” Paul says. “We didn’t want to spend a minute without them.”
|by John Dixon||reply 37||05/17/2020|
Just correcting something somebody posted on the last thread. JFP & Genie may not have been copacetic but Genie's biggest interpersonal problem was with Wendy Riche.
Genie has said she will never work with her again.
|by John Dixon||reply 38||05/17/2020|
All the talk in the previous thread about Joe Stuart. I went to imdb and couldn't find him. There were 2 Joe Stuart's listed. One and actor & one a producer. Neither had Loving in their credits.
|by John Dixon||reply 39||05/17/2020|
R38 Weird to hear that about Wendy. The show was so Lauracentric at that point, but that may have been more Claire Labine.
R39 I found him in three seconds. I am assuming you searched Joe Stuart and not Joseph Stuart.
|by John Dixon||reply 40||05/17/2020|
Do you think Paul Anthony Stewart has had botox? He looks so good for nearly 50
|by John Dixon||reply 41||05/17/2020|
PAS's husband needs to sit on my face. And Paul can stroke as he watches!
|by John Dixon||reply 42||05/17/2020|
Kimberly Simms was the perfect Mindy. She elevated the character. The show was fucking stupid for letting her go. She had a ton of chemistry with everybody.
Losing her, Sherry Stringfield and La Bev all in the same summer during hot story lines was devastating. The show was at a peak, ratings were rising as high as #2 for a bit I believe then it was over in a flash.
|by John Dixon||reply 43||05/17/2020|
The cast of General Hospital hated Joseph Stuart when ABC moved from from Loving to GH
When the show had its 7,000 episode and invited the press to a party, most of the cast BOYCOTTED the event, to send a message about their disgust towards Hardy
He barely lasted a year. GH cast was one cast you didn't push around.
|by John Dixon||reply 44||05/17/2020|
Although I liked Krista's Mindy, her Mindy was more for comedic effect. I am glad she came back in the end. For the last week, I would have loved to have the originals interact with all the recasts. Judi Evans could have bumped into Beth C's Beth on the street. Elizabeth Dennehy and Sherry Stringfield could be sitting in a booth at Company as Blake walks by, stops, looks them over, and keeps walking.
|by John Dixon||reply 45||05/17/2020|
R45 I had a similar idea for the ending week. Beverlee had passed away by that time but I actually thought they might close with the death of Alex (it was Alan) and I thought it would be something if every time someone walked by a photo of Alex on a mantle, it would change - from Bev to Marj to Joan.
|by John Dixon||reply 46||05/17/2020|
R29 I wanted Gregg (two g's) Marx in me quite deeply.
|by John Dixon||reply 47||05/17/2020|
The full article from what R37 posted is here
|by John Dixon||reply 48||05/17/2020|
I did not know that Kathleen Widdoes is godmother to Kaitlin Hopkins.
Kaitlin's mother, Shirley Knight, just died not so long ago.
|by John Dixon||reply 49||05/17/2020|
It had nothing to do with story. The reason Genie didn't get along with Riche is because Wendy constantly berated her about her weight. She would even berate her about it on the set in front of cast & crew. Genie felt humiliated and swore she'd never work with her again.
|by John Dixon||reply 50||05/17/2020|
I thought KT was perfect teenage Mindy. The 4 Musketeers meshed so well. Simms was the perfect adult Mindy: talent, scorching chemistry , beautiful. I'm glad they brought back KT for the end. Her chemistry with Clarke was unmatched.
|by John Dixon||reply 51||05/17/2020|
Simms had IT. She also meshed really well with Beth C as Beth Raines though I think KT did as well.
|by John Dixon||reply 52||05/17/2020|
Emma’s cheese puffs made me want to puke,
|by John Dixon||reply 53||05/17/2020|
R42 Tan lines.
|by John Dixon||reply 54||05/17/2020|
I’ve met PAS a few times socially. A doll. And his husband is as well. So nice.
I’ve told this story on here before. There is one of the those old grave yards somewhere near Gramercy Park. I’m talking a picture of one of the headstones and someone yells out, “ say cheese” and it’s Kathleen Widdows standing with a cane laughing. I talked her for a few minutes. Mentioned she had to be forced to kiss Jon Hensley. LOL. She was a character. Only in New York.
|by John Dixon||reply 55||05/17/2020|
Kathleen’s bf back in the day was actor Richard Jordan and he was a hot piece of ass. He died way too young.
|by John Dixon||reply 56||05/17/2020|
R56 Jordan was more than her bf. They were married and had a daughter whose name is Nina Jordan.
Ms. Jordan on her parents (from the attached interview):
[quote] Q. Did growing up the child of two talented and successful actors, Kathleen Widdoes and Richard Jordan, inform your art at all?
[quote] A. I was a little girl and I had these incredibly good-looking parents who were always concerned about their looks. They were both sort of vain, but they had to be. That’s the business. And I remember people asking me, Do you want to be an actress when you grow up? And I would always say No, absolutely not, even though I loved to perform. My mother was always learning songs for different musicals she was working on, and I’d learn the songs with her. I had a couple of canes, sequin tutus and top hats, and I would dance and sing all the time. I wanted to make art, but I didn’t want it to be about my looks. As a little girl, we had a coffee table book about Georgia O’Keefe, and inside it there was a beautiful photograph of O’Keefe’s craggy face. I thought, If you’re an artist, you can be really old and have a craggy face and people will think you’re beautiful. If you’re an actress, and you’re really old and have a craggy face, everybody’s going to say, Look at your old craggy face, you used to be so beautiful when you were 25. I didn’t want that! I wanted to be able to get the craggy face and have people think I’m beautiful.
|by John Dixon||reply 57||05/17/2020|
Kathleen Widdoes was best friends with the late actress Shirley Knight
|by John Dixon||reply 58||05/17/2020|
Which we touched on at R49
|by John Dixon||reply 59||05/17/2020|
I'm in 1989 GL right now on youtube. I know we have been saying this but Michelle Forbes is beyond phenomenal. There is no way another actress was better than her from 88-89. Sonni/Solita was the most interesting character and Kim Zimmer upped her game due to MF. KZ can do anything but even she upped her game.
The build up to Beth being alive was pitch perfect. Has there ever been a better lead up to a popular character being alive after being presumed dead? The writers did this as perfect as I could imagine. They had everybody involved heavily from Roger and Sonni to Rusty and Vanessa. I loved how Michelle, Sherry and James Rehorn shared a scene. Just the 3 of them. Beth's return was done expertly.
|by John Dixon||reply 60||05/17/2020|
The thing I loved is what they followed the Beth is alive story with - Phillip having to fake his death and ask....yes, India for help.
|by John Dixon||reply 61||05/17/2020|
R61 But am I wrong? The Beth is alive (we all knew it of course) was very, very well done. The build up was, to me, one of the best. The writing was pitch perfect.
|by John Dixon||reply 62||05/17/2020|
Oh yes, it has one of my favoritest moments, when Lillian sees Beth for the first time.
|by John Dixon||reply 63||05/17/2020|
R63 I don't think it gets the kudos it deserves. The writers made sure all the details of Beth's disappearance were addressed. And the build up was really the late 80s version of edging. LOL.
Beth was the tentpole character in the 4 mustkateers story. She was very popular. Her "death" was heartbreaking for many but most knew she was not dead. The build up to her return was so well done.
|by John Dixon||reply 64||05/17/2020|
[quote]But am I wrong? The Beth is alive (we all knew it of course) was very, very well done. The build up was, to me, one of the best. The writing was pitch perfect.
Pam knew how to plan out a story. And back in the 1980s, they still let stories play out slowly. None of this rushed 3 months to finish a story arc that we have now.
|by John Dixon||reply 65||05/17/2020|
I met Kathleen Widdoes when we acted together on stage in New York. What a dream and wonderful friend. She came to see me in a play about 6 years ago. Our photo together sits atop the grand piano in my home. Of course, I will not have time for stage work in the near future. Re-creating the role of Katherine Chancellor on Y&R will be consuming the majority of my time.
|by John Dixon||reply 66||05/17/2020|
This Scoche Marin person is basically the DL version of that woman from hoarders who jarred her own shit. She just doesn't get it.
|by John Dixon||reply 67||05/17/2020|
|by John Dixon||reply 68||05/18/2020|
I loved the Sonny Solita storyline. 1989 was also the time when the Dylan Lewis storyline started. I thought Morgan Englund was so good and sort of heartbreaking at the same time. Holly was back, Roger was coming back. Sherry Stringfield and Kimberly Simms came on the show. And of course the Beth returns storyline. This was the beginning of another golden age for GL.
|by John Dixon||reply 69||05/18/2020|
I missed Sonny/Solita entirely. I started watching GL in 1989 when I was home to watch ATWT, which I usually taped. I realized I was also addicted to GL on the Fourth of July because my VCR died that day, and I had to go to a picnic. Fortunately, it rained, and we held the picnic indoors, and I got to watch GL at the host's apartment. There were three of us there who watched it religiously, it turned out.
I got a new VCR on the morning of July 5.
|by John Dixon||reply 70||05/18/2020|
What ever happened to the million dollars Roger put in his living room safe during this Pam Long 1989/1990 period? As I recall, no further mention was made, and eventually I stopped watching.
But I'm sure one of you knows [italic]exactly[/italic] who took it out of the safe and what s/he did with it.
|by John Dixon||reply 71||05/18/2020|
I don't get the weird story about Kathleen Widdoes kissing Jon Hensley.
|by John Dixon||reply 72||05/18/2020|
My name is SONNI you bitches!
|by John Dixon||reply 73||05/18/2020|
I assume the event of which R71 speaks had to do with the Spaulding embezzlement?
|by John Dixon||reply 74||05/18/2020|
The money Roger took was Beth's ransom, right?
I'm at the episode where Beth shows up alive on the beach. Did the creepy Bruce guy know she was alive?
GL was soooooo good during 1989 to 1993.
|by John Dixon||reply 75||05/18/2020|
The creepy dude that had Beth (Neil) is, shall we remember even in trying to forget, played by Billie Eyelash's real life father.
|by John Dixon||reply 76||05/18/2020|
No, Bruce the art dealer trying to make Phillip believe Beth was alive. He had Dana impersonate Beth.
|by John Dixon||reply 77||05/18/2020|
I vaguely remember Dana. She was very pretty.
Wasn't she killed by Chelsea Reardon's crazy stalker?
|by John Dixon||reply 78||05/18/2020|
Bruce was insistent Beth was alive. I am not far enough in to know if he did actually know she was alive.
|by John Dixon||reply 79||05/18/2020|
KRISTI FERRELL! WOO HOO!
|by John Dixon||reply 80||05/18/2020|
OMG how the hell did he find Kristi Ferrell??!???!?!?!?!?!????
|by John Dixon||reply 81||05/18/2020|
Really looking forward to the Shayne family reunion!
|by John Dixon||reply 82||05/18/2020|
|by John Dixon||reply 83||05/18/2020|
|by John Dixon||reply 84||05/18/2020|
R72 she was just making a silly joke about kissing him. She didn't mean it literally.
|by John Dixon||reply 85||05/18/2020|
Apparently Kim keeps in touch with Kristi, even after all these years. I'm guessing she talked her into this
|by John Dixon||reply 86||05/18/2020|
That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.
However they may have gotten back in contact over the last several years.
|by John Dixon||reply 87||05/18/2020|
That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.
However they may have gotten back in contact over the last several years.
|by John Dixon||reply 88||05/18/2020|
[quote] That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.
That is not what I read - in an interview with Soap Opera Digest she said that Kristi was living on a ranch
Where did you hear Kim say the cast lost touch with Kristi?
|by John Dixon||reply 89||05/18/2020|
This was years ago, R89. Maybe around the time Kim's book came out?
|by John Dixon||reply 90||05/18/2020|
R90 I read Kim's book and there was nothing about Kristi Ferrell in the book
I sourced where Kim said she kept it touch with Kristi (Soap Opera Digest) - where is your source for "The cast lost touch with Kristi"
|by John Dixon||reply 91||05/18/2020|
Let it go, r91. It's really not a big deal.
|by John Dixon||reply 92||05/18/2020|
[quote] It's really not a big deal.
Translation - I made it up
|by John Dixon||reply 93||05/18/2020|
[quote] How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW?
When you're from Bay City you have to do SOMETHING.
|by John Dixon||reply 94||05/18/2020|
[quote] Translation - I made it up
No. If you check you will see that the other poster isn't me. The point is that kind of bitchy snarkiness has no place in the P&G threads.
|by John Dixon||reply 95||05/18/2020|
[quote] The point is that kind of bitchy snarkiness has no place in the P&G threads.
That is why ABC Soaps was number #1 in the 1980s!
|by John Dixon||reply 96||05/18/2020|
You are in the wrong thread, kiddo.
|by John Dixon||reply 97||05/18/2020|
R57, I sat next to Richard Jordan at a Broadway matinee performance of Bent, starring Richard Gere.
He had just been in a popular television mini-series and one frau after another kept approaching him at Intermission.
Check him out in "The Mean Season", with Kurt Russell and Mariel Hemingway.
|by John Dixon||reply 98||05/18/2020|
R93 no, I didn't make it up. But I don't have an notated bibliography of every interview I've ever read or any that I have ever DONE. All I know is that for a long period of time, no one could locate Kristi Ferrell, and Kim was one of a few people that mentioned it in interviews.
You do not need to come here and be an accusatory cunt.
|by John Dixon||reply 99||05/18/2020|
R96 Y&R would dispute that.
What state was Bay City supposed to be in?
|by John Dixon||reply 100||05/18/2020|
Bay City was said in later years to be in IL.
|by John Dixon||reply 101||05/18/2020|
[quote] Y&R would dispute that.
They didn't become number 1 until the late 80s
|by John Dixon||reply 102||05/18/2020|
[quote] You do not need to come here and be an accusatory cunt.
Then don't make things up
|by John Dixon||reply 103||05/18/2020|
Fuck off, R103. You are unwelcome here.
|by John Dixon||reply 104||05/18/2020|
R102 Mid-80s and GL briefly kicked GH in the cunt and out of #1 in '84.
|by John Dixon||reply 105||05/18/2020|
Just block the shithead.
|by John Dixon||reply 106||05/18/2020|
I did, R106.
I remember them now, there was something else a few months back where they did the same thing and kept hounding someone as to "where's your source."
|by John Dixon||reply 107||05/18/2020|
Kathleen Widdoes was great in the Charlotte Greer story on "Ryan's Hope" with an Irish brogue and going insane after Neil (Roy Poole) had a heart attack and died. Of course the star of that story was Judith Chapman who could have gotten an Emmy for that short term role. I'd love to find episodes of when Judith was on "As the World Turns" as one of Tom's wives, Natalie. I've found a lot of stills and articles with her from that time, but no episodes.
|by John Dixon||reply 108||05/18/2020|
R107 wouldn't be protesting so much if their info wasn't "suspect"
|by John Dixon||reply 109||05/18/2020|
People make things up and when they get caught, they sure get defensive.
|by John Dixon||reply 110||05/18/2020|
[quote] OMG how the hell did he find Kristi Ferrell??!???!?!?!?!?!????
Wasn't too hard to find if you know the name she used when she was a Dallas Cheerleader. Scanning very quickly, the only 'friend' I saw from GL was Frank Dicopoulos.
|by John Dixon||reply 111||05/18/2020|
This was one of the stories just discussed where it was repeated on multiple shows.
The Dobsons did it first on GL then on ATWT (and SB, too?)
|by John Dixon||reply 112||05/18/2020|
Question for the group - if you had to sum up the "identity" of each of the soaps, what would you say? For example, DAYS has always been couple focused, action/adventure focused and over the top (at least for the last 25 years)
|by John Dixon||reply 113||05/18/2020|
GL Families and couples.
|by John Dixon||reply 114||05/18/2020|
GL was also home for a long time for characters. Rich characters.
|by John Dixon||reply 115||05/18/2020|
(rich as in multilayered not rich as in money)
|by John Dixon||reply 116||05/18/2020|
AW-class drama ATWT-Families and history GL-Multi generational complex relationships
Non P&G shows:
AMC-small town hijinks BB-English language novella DAYS-romance and camp GH-dark , mafia and international crimes OLTL-Camp mixed with social issues SB-Humor and great dialogue Y&R-pretty people moving at a glacial pace
|by John Dixon||reply 117||05/18/2020|
Girls, girls, girls. These are crazy times. Coronavirus anxiety is affecting us all. Lockdowns are making us all a bit stir crazy. And that seems to be coming out in this thread today.
A reminder. The P&G threads are HAPPY threads. We make a point of getting along. We're here for a common interest -- a love of soaps, especially the P&G soaps. It's OK to disagree, but we do it nicely.
If you are having a bad day. If being cooped up at home is getting to you. If you just have to release all those frustrations somewhere, there are plenty of threads on DataLounge on which you can do so. There are many Meghan Markle threads where you will feel right at home. There are boatloads of Trump threads on which to unleash your anger. Tons of conspiracy theory threads that will welcome you with appropriate bitchiness. Please take your anger there.
|by John Dixon||reply 118||05/18/2020|
I remember there was something where (I think) Jack had to go knock on a door but he stood in the hallway for at least a WEEK before knocking... it took FOREVER for him to knock on that door
|by John Dixon||reply 119||05/18/2020|
R119 I never understood why Y&R was so popular. Watching old episodes just proved my point. A lot of times it was boring. And the same old same old with story lines.
|by John Dixon||reply 120||05/18/2020|
[quote] GH-dark , mafia and international crimes
Only for the last twenty years or so, before that it was GH-Medical Drama, espionage, romance, and business.
|by John Dixon||reply 121||05/18/2020|
Thank you, Aunt Liz, for r118. We like nice here in the marvelous midwest.
r113, I'm only able to comment on two of the soaps. AW at its best was about being able to be so close to the world you wished you lived in, you could almost taste it, smell it, feel it. Throughout the history of the show, Rachel and Jake McKinnon best embodied this principle. Jake wanted so bad to be thought of as a nice guy, as a successful guy, as a cool guy, as a smart guy, as a rich guy, and he could see all the living examples of what he wanted all day every day. And he never quite made it, somehow.
Rachel was more successful at attaining the position in life she wanted, but I only started watching in 1988, so I never saw her go through the process. She had already hit her mark by the time I came around.
Scotty D best described ATWT: "the fantasy of a multi-generational family that works." I'd always liked that kind of novel. No surprise that kind of show became my favorite. Until they ruined it after Douglas Marland died.
|by John Dixon||reply 122||05/18/2020|
[quote]Y&R-pretty people moving at a glacial pace
Back when I was a kid, Bill Bell was writing Days. In the mid 70s, pre-VCRs, the only way to catch soaps was to see them live. Since Days aired at 2 p.m., I only got to see it during the summer and at Christmas holidays. Or if I was home sick from school.
One time when I was sick, Days was climaxing a storyline with Mickey Horton finding out Mike was not his biological son and was having a breakdown in the sanitarium. Bill Bell's stories moved slow, but he also knew how to keep you hooked. You just kept watching because the payoff was also spectacular when it FINALLY came.
Anyway, I had some illness, so was home sick on a Monday and a Tuesday when this storyline was climaxing. But as I said, it was happening very slowly. I was well enough to go back to school on Wednesday, but feigned continued illness so I could see the climax. When it did't come on Wednesday, I continued playing sick on Thursday and Friday so I could stay home to watch Days.
Of course, the climax didn't come that Friday. I had to return to school the following Monday. But my mother kept me updated on what was happening on Days. The storyline didn't have that spectacularly satisfying, worth-the-wait climax episode for another month!!!
|by John Dixon||reply 123||05/18/2020|
[quote]Jake wanted so bad to be thought of as a nice guy, as a successful guy, as a cool guy, as a smart guy, as a rich guy, and he could see all the living examples of what he wanted all day every day. And he never quite made it, somehow.
Fantastic summation of the Jake character!! I'd never thought of Jake in quite those terms, but that really was what he was all about! Bravo!!
|by John Dixon||reply 124||05/18/2020|
I just tried to watch the Locher Room with Dr. Bob, Kim and Andy but the sound quality was so poor that I gave up after a while. Maybe Alan needs to not do these live but instead record them after they get the sound working right. Is there a good reason it has to be live?
|by John Dixon||reply 125||05/18/2020|
r124 Thanks, Aunt Liz. Jake was my favorite character on AW. I was never able to believe he would rape Marley.
|by John Dixon||reply 126||05/18/2020|
I also wish Alan would do what Stars in the House does and posts highlights of interviews.
|by John Dixon||reply 127||05/18/2020|
Thank you to everyone who has posted on these P&G threads, you made my day! I just spent the last two hours catching up on all the gossip (this thread and the previous); old soaps and their devotees are my lifeline.
|by John Dixon||reply 128||05/18/2020|
I suppose you all know, but, Kathleen Widdoes and Shirley Knight were in "The Group" along with Candice Bergen and Jessica Walter. The book and the movie are a must for any true DLer!
|by John Dixon||reply 129||05/18/2020|
Of course I was in “The Group” too. I miss those gals, but they are all looking forward to my debut as Katherine Chancellor on THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS on CBS.
|by John Dixon||reply 130||05/18/2020|
May I have the address of the Scoche Marin troll. There’s a special music box I want to send her.
|by John Dixon||reply 131||05/18/2020|
R131 Just block it. I did.
|by John Dixon||reply 132||05/18/2020|
R131 Mrs. Piper, may I pay the postage for that package? It would be my honor.
|by John Dixon||reply 133||05/18/2020|
As long as The Group is played on TCM Emma will be eternal. She will be noticed outside of the soap opera ghetto by film.queens that will cherish her forever.
|by John Dixon||reply 134||05/18/2020|
I don't know how GL didn't win best show in either 90, 91, 92 or 93. It only won writing in 90. The show was on fire during this time. There are so many great stories going on. From summer 88 to summer 93 was a true peak. The one thing I have not liked was Sam being crippled. I hate when soaps make people blind or crippled. It is soooo boring. Amnesia is fun, though.
|by John Dixon||reply 135||05/18/2020|
Zimmer's emmy reel scenes were outstanding. She did beautifully playing that.
|by John Dixon||reply 136||05/18/2020|
R135 1990 was the end of Santa Barbara's three-year run. We never watched it, but from what I've seen on youtube, I don't know how it kept winning. 1991 the winner was ATWT which was in the middle of Marland's run as HW so you can't argue with them winning. 1992 AMC won, which was during Megan McTavish's storied run with Agnes Nixon, so again you can't fault it. 1993 was Y&R; it was a good year for them but it wasn't the greatest. To me it is a shame that GL only won three times, and had to share one of them with Y&R, and OLTL only won once. While some other shows have a lot more. B&B and SB should not have the same number of Outstanding Drama Emmy's as GL and more than OLTL. Especially since B&B's wins didn't have to wait for the current four soap period, and it has NEVER been the best soap on the air. At least some of Y&R, GH, and DAYS' wins can be chalked up to the less competition over the last decade. Looking at what shows have the most Emmys just tells me they are largely a joke, when it comes to actually quality.
|by John Dixon||reply 137||05/18/2020|
Santa Barbara won because of Patrick Mulcahy’s dialogue. A lot of JFP’s worst instincts got their start here:
1.) The dark look; 2.) The gutting of traditional soap pillars, like having multiple generations and core families on the canvas, to instead focus on a small group of younger, sexy characters and 1 or 2 characters over 40; 3.) The misogynistic treatment of woman (Eden Capwell was raped by her OBGYN).
What it did have, however, was amazingly crisp, sharp dialogue that was witty and sophisticated. It’s something he brought to GL during its early 90s renaissance.
|by John Dixon||reply 138||05/18/2020|
R138 then by all means they could receive the writing awards, but I don’t think they ever were the most outstanding all around soap.
|by John Dixon||reply 139||05/18/2020|
I think if you weren’t a huge soap fan who kept up with all the shows,r139, SB seemed refreshing and different. The problem is what made SB unique is also antithetical to good soap opera , and eventually Mulcahy’s scripts couldn’t mask that any longer.
When they won the second Emmy for Best Show, there were maybe 15 contract players, on an hour long soap, and at 1/3 off them were barely used. Compare that to ATWT in 1989 which probably had 40 contract players and multiple characters and stories.
If you didn’t watch soaps regularly a good episode of SB seemed modern and like a breath of fresh air. I’m guessing their votes came from the folks who didn’t watch soaps or thought the medium was low brow.
A lot of the hacks that ruined shows in the 90s and 2000s got their start in daytime here or worked for several years on SB -Chuck Pratt, JFP, Robert Guza....
|by John Dixon||reply 140||05/18/2020|
R139 I just never really watched NBC soaps, other than Sunset Beach later on because the first half didn’t air opposite other soaps. I watched all the CBS and ABC soaps.
|by John Dixon||reply 141||05/18/2020|
Sorry I meant R140. Also it is strange you said what you did because I was a child at the time, and I tried watching Santa Barbara a few times and rather than sophisticated it seemed cartoonish, so I didn’t watch it. Especially compared to GL and GH which aired opposite it.
|by John Dixon||reply 142||05/18/2020|
That's a stunning shot of Kathleen Widdoes at r68!
|by John Dixon||reply 143||05/18/2020|
I just read upthread that Kathleen was married to Richard Jordan. That surprised me. Remember when TV started doing mini-series like Rich Man Poor Man? He was in a wonderful one called Captain & Kings.
I remember he was in a longterm relationship with his co-star Blair Brown. After reading the post that he was Kathleen's ex I googled him. I am stunned to learn he had another longterm relationship after Blair and it was none other than Marcia Cross.
WTF??? How did I not know this? Their relationship lasted until his death.
|by John Dixon||reply 144||05/18/2020|
r138, did Timothy Gibbs' character actually rape Nancy Lee Grahn's character on Santa Barbara? Or was he falsely accused? I remember clicking to NBC during commercials on GL when I watched IRT, but I never saw enough episodes to follow the plot completely. But I do remember that gorgeous environmentalist he played, Dash something, who sat in jail in a denim work shirt for what felt like months.
|by John Dixon||reply 145||05/19/2020|
Ironically, Carrie Nye (Susan Piper, later Caroline Carruthers, "GL") is in "The Group", a smaller role as the class outcast, basically a free spirit who doesn't follow social norms. Sort of like the Tallulah Bankhead type roles she later played, including "The Scarlet O'Hara Wars" as the great Ms. B. for which she got an Emmy Nomination.
|by John Dixon||reply 146||05/19/2020|
GL deserved to win one of those years. This may have been in the middle of Marland's reign but it was also in the middle of Long and Curlee's reign. GL moved quick yet you were able to sample your story with what felt like enough time. Even in 88/89, there were so many characters used and some in surprising ways like Sonni and Roger teaming up with Rusty to investigate Beth's return. Roger and Beth's returns, Holly and Blake coming on the canvas, Reva/Sonni/Josh then Will/Mindy. Even the recasts were great. GL had plenty of humor during this time.
|by John Dixon||reply 147||05/19/2020|
A large part of Santa Barbara's appeal was its cast. TPTB knew how to snap up talent and give them fun material to play with. Clearly the producers had money to offer and were willing to sign actors for the short stints they find appealing.
Of course A Martinez and Marcy Walker...but also Lane Davies, Justin Deas, Robin Mattson, Louise Sorel, Nicolas Coster, Jed Allan, Judith McConnell, Roscoe Born, Robin Wright, Harley Kozak, Dame Judith Anderson, etc. When SB went off the air, the cast included soap royalty Kim Zimmer, Thaao Penghlis, Krist Tesreau, Jack Wagner, Eileen Davidson, Charles Grant, Gordon Thomson and Sydney Penny.
Brilliant actors can make any material shine and the SB cast did.
|by John Dixon||reply 148||05/19/2020|
R140 Interesting that all those hacks were at SB. I had no idea.
|by John Dixon||reply 149||05/19/2020|
r144 Richard Jordan seems to me like the kind of man who chewed up his female partners and then spat them out after he had sucked the youth out of them.
|by John Dixon||reply 150||05/19/2020|
SB was up against titans GL and GH. It didn't stand a chance.
|by John Dixon||reply 151||05/19/2020|
Patrick Mulcahey is such an enigma to me. He is one of the greatest scriptwriters ever in the genre. He can write truly beautiful, emotional and/or heart shattering dialogue. I am still dumbfounded that he is into hard core (very hard core) S&M. The two things just don't compute to me.
It also doesn't compute to me that he spent the end of his career writing for such a schlocky garbage show as B&B. Any of the shows would have bent over backwards to have him but he chose to write for the worst. After all the amazing work he did in his career I just don't understand that choice.
|by John Dixon||reply 152||05/19/2020|
SB's biggest issue at the beginning was that they kept recasting.
After things settled, they had the same issue GL would later have with CBS - less than 70 percent of local affiliates would show it in the time slot (if at all). Also what killed Ryan's Hope.
|by John Dixon||reply 153||05/19/2020|
R138 - how do you know he's into S&M?
Wanting to work at B&B in his twilight years isn't shocking - B&B is 30 minutes (less work) and given its quality makes an episode of 90 Day Fiance seem like film noir - its easy, dependable cash.
|by John Dixon||reply 154||05/19/2020|
I want to say he did an article for advocate or some other gay magazine
|by John Dixon||reply 155||05/19/2020|
R154 That's been well known for years.
R155 Remember, we need our SOURCES or some queen will hiss at us all. And unlike Digest and Weekly, which are not archived or notated anywhere on line, info about Mulcahey's BDSM/leather activities are easily found with a search.
|by John Dixon||reply 156||05/19/2020|
There are additional sources, search "Patrick Mulcahey leather" and pages show up.
I know he used to talk about it some on his Twitter page, and had a partner or slave who was also named Patrick (but usually written as patrick, if I recall, to indicate his beta standing to alpha Patrick.)
|by John Dixon||reply 157||05/19/2020|
He's also apparently speaking at a master/slave confrence in Washington DC on Labor Day Weekend.
|by John Dixon||reply 158||05/19/2020|
In searching for Mulcahey I found this article, which makes a claim I have *never* heard before....
That the Dobsons were considered for a return to GL in 1995.
(Didn't JFP and the Dobsons have a falling out or never fell in?)
|by John Dixon||reply 159||05/19/2020|
Mulcahey married his "slave" and yes his name is also patrick.
Another enigma about him is after decades of living in San Francisco he & his hubby have moved to a teeny tiny town in Washington. Population less than 1000. What the hell?
|by John Dixon||reply 160||05/19/2020|
r159's article is intriguing. I also never heard rumors of the Dobsons returning to GL in 1995. But then much of what the article reported did not come to pass.
But if the Dobsons were considering becoming GL HWs again, that may explain why JFP was fired from GL. I can't imagine the Dobsons working with her again, so her ouster may have been a pre-requisite for their coming aboard.
As for the rumor that A Martinez was coming to GL, that's only natural since Marcy Walker was already there collecting a high salary to do nothing.
|by John Dixon||reply 161||05/19/2020|
Wonder why Laura Wright isn't being included in the Shayne family reunion.
|by John Dixon||reply 162||05/19/2020|
A return of the Dobsons to GL would have been amazing . They loved GL and a lot of the characters that were front burner during their tenure in the 70s were still front burner.
|by John Dixon||reply 163||05/19/2020|
Lets be real- they were probably going to return but the network was the issue. TPTB did not want GL to succeed.
|by John Dixon||reply 164||05/19/2020|
I still think SB going against a resurgent GL and GH was never going to work. Every person I knew were either a GL or GH person, some both. I don't think I had ever met a SB person. If GL had not gotten its act together after 86/87, it might have made a move. I think GH was in a slump during GL's resurgence but they had hard core watchers.
|by John Dixon||reply 165||05/19/2020|
The thing that knocked GL down is the thing that always made it slip up every time - when Luke and Laura came back they thought "we have to compete and do something special."
And it never worked. They should have just been the best GL they could be. But the last 20-25 years of both ATWT and GL were about people behind the scenes wanting them to be anything and everything other than the things they already were, beautifully.
|by John Dixon||reply 166||05/19/2020|
What is shocking about GL's Golden 88-93 era was the ratings kept crashing. It only went up by a little in 91-92 season going top 5 but mainly because the others shows started crashing with GH having a huge ratings drop.
|by John Dixon||reply 167||05/19/2020|
That was also when soaps really started to lose numbers big time, even before OJ.
At that point, it was mostly talk shows that were blamed for the fall.
|by John Dixon||reply 168||05/19/2020|
Did Reva and Roger ever have a story together or significant screen time?
|by John Dixon||reply 169||05/19/2020|
Roger got Reva drunk and took dirty photos of her in 1989 or 1990.
Billy somehow came to the rescue, tricking Roger somehow into burning an envelope with oil leases (?) but that really contained the dirty photos.
|by John Dixon||reply 170||05/19/2020|
Kim on Zaslow from her book:
Michael’s return to Guiding Light reminded me of the scene in the movie Soapdish where Whoopi Goldberg’s character reminds the producers of her show that they can’t bring back Kevin Klein’s character because he had been decapitated. Their response was to give his character the very first successful head transplant. Miracle of miracles, he was now alive and well and being written back into their show! Michael’s return to Guiding Light was a textbook soap opera move, in that there was no possible way he could have survived his fall off the rocky cliff—but he did. You see? No one’s ever really dead in Soap Land! Michael was a force to be reckoned with and was very opinionated. In other words, he didn’t take shit from anyone. If he didn’t like something, he’d let you know. Michael didn’t care if he hurt someone’s feelings or stepped on toes. He knew who his character was and fought for Roger with everything he had. If a scene was written that made his character any less than who Michael thought he was, Michael would pitch a royal fit until it was fixed to his satisfaction.
|by John Dixon||reply 171||05/19/2020|
I can't believe that Signey Coleman, mousy Hope from Y&R, took over Annie Dutton from Cynthia Watros, on GL. I had forgotten it completely; I must have blocked it out.
|by John Dixon||reply 172||05/19/2020|
Signey Coleman is one of the least charismatic actors to every appear on a soap, rivaling AW's William Grey Espy. Zero energy, lots of staring.
|by John Dixon||reply 173||05/19/2020|
R173 Exactly, that must be why I blocked it out. I hated her on Y&R. Whatever one may think about Melody Thomas Scott as Nikki, on Y&R, she does have charisma and presence. I kept wanting Nikki to snap and start slapping her around. If she couldn't hold her own against MTS, why did anyone think she could against Kim Zimmer.
|by John Dixon||reply 174||05/19/2020|
[quote] I can't believe that Signey Coleman, mousy Hope from Y&R, took over Annie Dutton from Cynthia Watros, on GL.
That was one of those stories that you could tell someone changed along the way. I don't think Coleman was hired to be Annie, but they kept going for weird hyped stories after the clone thing, so they changed it from "Teri DeMarco" to her being Annie. And she didn't sell it at all, nor did Zimmer and Newman seem to be very welcoming in scenes with her.
Although her holding up a picture of Cynthia Watros in front of her face and saying "Jarsh!" was sort of funny.
|by John Dixon||reply 175||05/19/2020|
Signy always reminded me of Renee Zellweger, for some reason.
|by John Dixon||reply 176||05/19/2020|
Hopeless was such a blah character, and really quite the self-righteous beyotch ordering Victor to stay away and have nothing to do with raising HER son.
|by John Dixon||reply 177||05/19/2020|
I worked at Gelsons Market in Pacific Palisades when I was going to UCLA in the 90s and Signy Coleman came in all the time while she was playing Hope. She was a nasty bitch and very condescending. She yelled at her husband a lot in the store .
|by John Dixon||reply 178||05/19/2020|
R178 Vincent Irizarry or the other one?
|by John Dixon||reply 179||05/19/2020|
Signy had some of the worst cosmetic surgery ever. It was really pretty shocking to see on camera, and much worse than this air-brushed photo.
|by John Dixon||reply 180||05/19/2020|
In a lengthy interview with Soap Opera Digest - Patrick Mulcahey said the killing off of Maureen Bauer was the right thing to do, as her death spun all the characters into new storylines they would never be in if it were not for Maureen getting killed off
The only thing he disagreed with was the firing of Rachel Miner (Michelle) to age the character, He said her acting was second to none, and they should have kept Miner for that reason.
|by John Dixon||reply 181||05/19/2020|
Here’s s cleaned up version of the excellent Ladies of Loving reunion.
|by John Dixon||reply 182||05/19/2020|
Signy Coleman was no Cynthia Watros, but I thought she did a decent job on Y&R as Hope. I'm not saying she was fantastic on Y&R. but she was decent. Remember this is the she show that kept people like J. Eddie Peck, Brenda Epperson , Shari Shattuck and Don Diamont on contract for ages, so great acting was never a major requirement.
|by John Dixon||reply 183||05/19/2020|
I did think Maureen was a bit boring and dowdy. However, the way they wrote that story and her death made me realize how important she was. I totally took her for granted. I wish they had "killed" her off as they did Beth and Roger. Not at all.
Signey Coleman. Wow what a terrible idea. All the way around. Just recast and move on but not with plastic surgery Annie.
|by John Dixon||reply 184||05/19/2020|
[quote] J. Eddie Peck, Brenda Epperson , Shari Shattuck and Don Diamont on contract for ages, so great acting was never a major requirement.
But, they were good-looking and fun, she was neither.
|by John Dixon||reply 185||05/19/2020|
[quote] However, the way they wrote that story and her death made me realize how important she wa
That is exactly the same thing Jill Farren Phelps said -
JFP saying the ONLY reason why there was such outcry is that the episodes leading up to her death, made the audience care more about the character than they did BEFORE hand. JFP saying that is what they did "wrong" in killing off that character
If they had to do it all over again, they would just send her on an out of town trip, and die off-screen in a plane crash. Then that way the audience wouldn't be that invested.
|by John Dixon||reply 186||05/19/2020|
r186 Well she's right but they should have written her that way, and all of them, the entire time. So she is admitting they should have written characters to make the audience invested in them. Hmmm what a revelation there Jill (Marian).
|by John Dixon||reply 187||05/19/2020|
And R186, I would have felt regret with her dying either way. That's what I am saying. But the way they wrote the ending was a gut punch for the ages. I swear the song at the end with the montage is what really got most people.
|by John Dixon||reply 188||05/19/2020|
The biggest IRONY about the killing off of Maureen is that it nabbed Ellen Parker an Emmy and those episodes won Guiding Light the Best Writing Emmy Award
Which was the ONLY Emmy James Reilly (Days of our Lives & Passions) won for writing -
|by John Dixon||reply 189||05/19/2020|
Anyone know why Roger Howarth joined the cast of ATWT?
Also, did he really have an affair with Marie Wilson?
|by John Dixon||reply 190||05/19/2020|
R190 Well, he liked eating and living indoors, so a paycheck came in handy.
Supposedly he was over playing a rapist.
|by John Dixon||reply 191||05/19/2020|
Just watched the 1993 Daytime Emmys to see Ellen Parker's win. GL had a shit ton of acting noms, many times two per category. Also won Best Writing. Should have won Best Show. Fun to see Nancy Curlee. Why did you leave us????? Why didn't you come back????
|by John Dixon||reply 192||05/19/2020|
Saying Mo would have been less missed if she had just been killed in a plane crash is bull.
She was the Bert character, though the show never really seemed to get that.
|by John Dixon||reply 193||05/19/2020|
Head writing is really a burnout job, especially for an hour show.
I'm surprised Marland was able to do it as long as he did at ATWT, or that Lemay did a year of 90 minutes a day!
|by John Dixon||reply 194||05/19/2020|
Didn't Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon do it forever, though? We needed Nancy to stay or Pam to come back. Or both again. Pam got certain characters (like Beth and Reva) while Nancy got others (like Alan Michael, Mindy, Ross).
|by John Dixon||reply 195||05/19/2020|
R195 I think it is different, if you created the show. It is harder to come in and continue a never-ending story that you didn't create. That is why so many head writers come in and want to get rid of established characters and create new families.
|by John Dixon||reply 196||05/19/2020|
Nancy Curlee was a fan of GL since she was 12.
|by John Dixon||reply 197||05/19/2020|
Bill did it well when it was a half hour and he wanted it to stay that way. He was able to continue when Y&R was an hour because he had a great right hand helper (Kay Alden).
Agnes was the same. Easier to do solo at 30 minutes, but you need help at an hour. Aggie trained a few people (Washam, McTavish) but the only one who ever seemed to really get her vibe and/or respect it was Lorraine Broderick.
|by John Dixon||reply 198||05/19/2020|
Being a head writer is not that difficult
What is difficult is getting network approval. Everything has to be approved. It is worse for a P&G head writer because not only do you need network approval, you need P&G approval - so that is two layers of approval you need to get past.
You can have the most brilliant long-term story bible, but as the years wore on, the network wanted everything "focus grouped" and leaned more to "big events" like fires, explosions, floods.
Though Agnes Nixon created AMC, she sold the show to ABC and had to get network approval, despite her track record. In the late 90s, she just got fed up and quit.
The reason Bill Bell & Douglas Marland lasted so long is that they had creative control. Bell in particular - he told the network what stories he was going to do. He didn't need anything approved he ran the show.
Same with Marland. before he consented to head write again, he insisted on total creative control. Nowadays you don't have that anymore.
|by John Dixon||reply 199||05/19/2020|
R199 I wonder if FV has that at DAYS? He doesn't seem to get much push back about his story choices.
|by John Dixon||reply 200||05/19/2020|
R179 Coleman played Hopeless on Y&R from 1993-97, which was after she and Irizarry had divorced (1992), yet before she was married to #2 (1999-2006). She did appear once in a blue moon until they killed her character off (2008). At that point, they had her in a death bed for about a week.
|by John Dixon||reply 201||05/19/2020|
R201 Sorry, I didn't notice where you said it was while she was playing Hope.
|by John Dixon||reply 202||05/19/2020|
GL could have begged Nancy or Pam back. Or both. It seems they almost got the Dobsons back. Though I never watched the Dobson's GL, I feel I know it from you all. I wonder what they would have done? Did anybody say why they think it fell through? If they were looking to get them back, they could have tried for Nancy or Pam but if the network was a bunch of assholes I can see why they didn't.
|by John Dixon||reply 203||05/19/2020|
R203 Pam quit GL for the same reason Agnes Nixon quit AMC in the late 90s. Pam was just tried of dealing with both P&G & CBS second-guessing her long term story outlines
towards the end Pam wanted to bring Kim Zimmer back for a one-day guest spot at Christmas time as a vision to 6 year-old Marah
The network said NO - then the final straw was Pam idea to slowly integrate a new family into the show that was Jewish. At the time "thirtysomething" was all the rage and Pam envisioned a Jewish Michael Steadman type character, and then slowly bring in other members of the family (think how the Coopers were expanded)
The network fought Pam on that one, so that was the final straw and she quit.
|by John Dixon||reply 204||05/19/2020|
[quote]I wonder if FV has that at DAYS? He doesn't seem to get much push back about his story choices.
You're confusing EP Frank Valentini with HW Ron Carlivati.
Frank is EP of GH. Ron was HW of GH, then moved over to Days.
I don't think Ron has total creative control, but he certainly has much greater autonomy at Days than he did at GH. It's obvious many of his stories at GH suffered from network interference, So, Ron likely has that autonomy written into his Days contract.
Marland certainly had it total creative control written into his contract when he was at ATWT. Before that, he may not have had creative control, but he clearly had a exit clause written in. He twice bolted from shows with virtually no notice -- GH in 1979 and GL in 1982.
|by John Dixon||reply 205||05/19/2020|
R205 in terms of GH Marland and Gloria Monty couldn't stand one another, so in that case he was allowed to quit with no notice
On GL he made it clear he was going to fulfill his contract and then leave, after they dumped his friend Jane Elliot
All the good headwriters didn't seem to want to come back to daytime, I think because of dealing with the networks was such a hassel
And in late 90s and 2000s we were stuck with mediocre head writers like Dena Higley, who just wind up going from show to show.
Every daytime actor has said the same thing - if only the long term story and writing were top notch, the ratings wouldn't have slid that much.
|by John Dixon||reply 206||05/19/2020|
R205 Sorry I meant RC. I get them confused because they were a team for so long.
You would think that the networks would learn from the fact that when they interfere with the shows, the shows suffer and when they don't the shows do better.
|by John Dixon||reply 207||05/19/2020|
[quote]On GL he made it clear he was going to fulfill his contract and then leave, after they dumped his friend Jane Elliot
Malrand must have had a weird contract cycle. His first scripts aired in early Jan 1980. His final scripts ran in mid Sept 1982. Most HWs would have had a one year, two year or three year contract, so Marland leaving after two years and nine months seems bizarre.
|by John Dixon||reply 208||05/19/2020|
Ahh, I just checked. Marland left GH in August 1979. He likely was immediately hired by GL to be HW but spent a few months watching the show and writing his Bible before his scripts started airing in Jan. 1980. So, his contract probably ran Sept. 1979 to Sept. 1982. That explains it.
|by John Dixon||reply 209||05/19/2020|
I thought he was at ATWT immediately after GH, for a few months-he wrote the Willows story for Lisa.
I watched a couple of the Episodes of the Willows story on You Tube. There seemed to have been an intention to do some sort of story involving Penny-Nancy, Bob and Chris mention getting a mysterious message from Penny in London. Wonder what that was about .
|by John Dixon||reply 210||05/19/2020|
R210 yes. According to Wikipedia P&G asked him to do a temp job on ATWT for 13 weeks, between the previous head writers and the Dobsons, with which he swapped. I guess they wanted to finish out their GL stories before moving.
|by John Dixon||reply 211||05/19/2020|
R202 Perhaps I should have clarified this, and or tagged the post where that was stated, but I didn't write R178.
|by John Dixon||reply 212||05/19/2020|
Ron does not have creative control at DAYS. Alan Alarr has more creative control & he has nixed so much.
|by John Dixon||reply 213||05/20/2020|
Did anyone watch last night's The Story of Soaps? It was quite good.
EZ told a story about a "very big Hollywood star" who was doing OLTL and they asked to be let out of their contract because they couldn't handle the speed & massive amounts of memorization.
Any idea who she was speaking of? I know that's why Joan Collins left GL but I didn't know it also happened on OLTL.
|by John Dixon||reply 214||05/20/2020|
I don't know who Vickie Sleestak was talking about, but it reminded me of GL's other example of that genre: Keir Dullea. And ATWT had another bolter of that type in Robert Vaughn.
|by John Dixon||reply 215||05/20/2020|
[quote]Being a head writer is not that difficult
I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not. It takes a special kind of person to write/guide a never-ending story for 20 to 40 characters for 250 episodes a year.
|by John Dixon||reply 216||05/20/2020|
Why did the Dobsons leave GL?
Did that Story of Soaps have any GL mention? If so, what did they mention? Or was it just a masterbation of ABC and some NBC soaps? I know this aired on ABC but they should call it "The story of ABC soaps with some NBC thrown in" otherwise it isn't fair. AMC and OLTL have been long canceled. GL and ATWT dominated ratings for decades and ran longer.
|by John Dixon||reply 217||05/20/2020|
Watched Story of Soaps. Surprised ABC allowed the show to (rightfully) criticize the network. First with Luke's rape of Laura — this segment and the AIDS segment offered a depth the rest of the series did not. And finally, with the criticism of ABC's cancellation of OLTL and ABC. La Lucci and Carol Burnett called the network out and the huge fan backlash / picketing was featured. Wondering if the network is reconsidering its decision.
Didn’t need to see Andy Cohen comparing his Real Housewives to our soaps. That’s like comparing caviar to dog food.
Seemed like after ABC, NBC got slightly more time than CBS…not a lot from the P&G soaps.
|by John Dixon||reply 218||05/20/2020|
R14 Kathleen and her husband live near me. Saw them on the street before the current lock down, She was in good spirits. Mentioned to her that the Brooklyn studio is now a self-storage.
|by John Dixon||reply 219||05/20/2020|
r218 Both OLTL and AMC had very low ratings. What was controversial? When ratings are so low for the remaining shows why would they consider bringing back these long canceled shows? Of course they masterbated over their own fucking shows trying to elevate them with the implication being the others are lesser. CBS needs to counter this shit and NOT mention ABC shows. It needs to be titled: "Daytime dramas- How they transformed America." Don't even mention that fucking Luke and Laura bullshit. Fuck them.
|by John Dixon||reply 220||05/20/2020|
[quote] I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not.
Being a dialogue writer is 10 times more difficult than being a head writer
And Irna Phillips wrote everything BY HAND - then she would dictate to a typist.
|by John Dixon||reply 221||05/20/2020|
[quote] EZ told a story about a "very big Hollywood star" who was doing OLTL and they asked to be let out of their contract because they couldn't handle the speed & massive amounts of memorization.
Farley Granger - he actually had a nervous breakdown on the set and that was his last day. Irony is that he got an Emmy nomination for his work on OLTL
Decade later he went to ATWT, but this time his long-time partner (producer Robert Calhoun) was Executive Producer and the feeling was Calhoun could help Granger with the memorization. But it was still a problem and Granger left, this time much more gracefully.
Granger would pop back in from time to time, TPTB making sure his lines were limited and easy to memorize. Then they killed the character off, leaving Lisa a widow once again.
|by John Dixon||reply 222||05/20/2020|
Farley Granger? Never heard of this person. A "Very big Hollywood star?"
|by John Dixon||reply 223||05/20/2020|
[quote] Never heard of this person.
That's a reflection on you, not him.
|by John Dixon||reply 224||05/20/2020|
[quote] I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not.
when Michael Malone (OLTL) presented his long-term story bible to the network he storyboarded everything! After the presentation the head ABC Daytime told him he had enough material for TEN YEARS let along one year.
Telling Malone SLOW DOWN the speed of his original stories were too fast and needed to be at pace for a day to day show.
|by John Dixon||reply 225||05/20/2020|
R224 A "Very Big Hollywood" star wouldn't or shouldn't be someone I would have to google.
|by John Dixon||reply 226||05/20/2020|
Last night's Story of Soaps was fairly good. The history of soaps involves a lot of material to incorporate into two hours, so everything couldn't possibly be covered. They got a few of the facts wrong too. I'd give it a rating of B or three stars.
Overall, I enjoyed it. Nice little trip down memory lane. I especially enjoyed the discussion of the Luke and Laura rape. Nice to see a frank discussion of that. Glad they showed the clip of that rape scene (including the Herb Alpert "Rise" song which played when that scene aired in 1979).
Yes, the show was ABC heavy, but we knew it would be. In addition, Days, Y&R and B&B got a little screen time, as did the P&G soaps. No mention or clips from Santa Barbara, Sunset Beach, Passions, Capitol, Love of Life. or Secret Storm. Likewise, no Ryans Hope that I saw which was surprising given that ABC owns Ryans Hope.
Also no mention of Peyton Place, the original nighttime soap. Show specifically said Dallas was the original nighttime soap, which is incorrect. Likewise, no clips of Falcon Crest, Knots Landing, Melrose Place or 90210.
As for P&G, there were a few clips show from AW and ATWT, but all were without any audio, just the video. The only GL clips I recall seeing did have audio with a few lines of dialogue -- Roger demanding sex from Holly and Reva confronting her clone. Also no mention of Edge of Night, although there was footage of Sharon Gabet at a fan event. There was however, a quick little tribute to Mary Stuart of Search for Tomorrow, which was nice.
I have to wonder if the show had to pay for use of the clips of those non ABC shows, which may have factored into why so few were used. Show likely got to use the ABC clips for free.
|by John Dixon||reply 227||05/20/2020|
Still on you, r226. A star of a Hitchcock movie is a very big Hollywood star.
|by John Dixon||reply 228||05/20/2020|
R227 CBS should counter. It was a deliberate attempt to make it seem ABC shows were more important.
|by John Dixon||reply 229||05/20/2020|
R226 I cannot believe that a gay man doesn't know Farley Granger!
|by John Dixon||reply 230||05/20/2020|
R230 How do you know I'm a man? (I am).
Good lord he was from the 40s and 50s. I was born in the 80s.
|by John Dixon||reply 231||05/20/2020|
[quote]Being a dialogue writer is 10 times more difficult than being a head writer
I respectfully disagree with this as well. The breakdown guides the script writer. It takes talent to write good dialogue, but they have help via the breakdown. And the reason why I will always say HWing a soap is a hard job because the job involves so much more than story creation.
[quote] CBS should counter. It was a deliberate attempt to make it seem ABC shows were more important.
There are a ton of reasons why it was light on CBS. Maybe CBS didn't want to cooperate fully with the special.
|by John Dixon||reply 232||05/20/2020|
I was wrong, the show did include Melrose Place clips. Sorry.
So much material to take in, I'll need to rewatch it.
|by John Dixon||reply 233||05/20/2020|
Judi Evans is hospitalized after a serious horseback riding accident.
She broke her collar bone, fractured 7 ribs, 2 vertebrae and has a collapsed lung.
|by John Dixon||reply 234||05/20/2020|
[quote] It takes talent to write good dialogue, but they have help via the breakdown.
Every soap actor has said the same thing - they would NEVER want to be a dialogue writer for all the diamonds in the world
Head writer - soap actors would consider, but dialogue writer? Never. Because they know it is ten times harder. So they would know.
|by John Dixon||reply 235||05/20/2020|
[quote] Judi Evans is hospitalized after a serious horseback riding accident. She broke her collar bone, fractured 7 ribs, 2 vertebrae and has a collapsed lung.
Poor Judi, first her husband dies. Now this.
|by John Dixon||reply 236||05/20/2020|
[quote]Poor Judi, first her husband dies. Now this.
Her son Austin died back in December. As far as I know, her husband is still alive.
|by John Dixon||reply 237||05/20/2020|
R236 Her son died, not her husband. But yes, she's had an awful time of it lately.
|by John Dixon||reply 238||05/20/2020|
It was her son that died not her husband
|by John Dixon||reply 239||05/20/2020|
A breakdown doesn’t just guide. I only know from Marland’s breakdowns, but they say things like, “Lily tells Holden she doesn’t understand why he’s been avoiding her. He hesitates, then admits it’s been hard being around her, as he still has feelings for her and can’t bear seeing her with someone else.” It’s all very specific. Frankly, his breakdown and script writers were more typists than writers.
|by John Dixon||reply 240||05/20/2020|
R236 here - yes sorry meant to say her son, not her husband.
On top of all of this, she found out through the media her character Adrienne got killed off Days
|by John Dixon||reply 241||05/20/2020|
MVJ was not happy with last night's special revisiting the Luke/Laura rape and Liz's rape being the catalyst. She said they should have interviewed her for the trut of what went down.
I really wish she'd write a memoir.
|by John Dixon||reply 242||05/20/2020|
Different head writers will have different levels of involvement.
Harding Lemay wrote every word. Marland mapped out a lot.
Some only hit the main points and then let the breakdown writers do more of the pacing.
|by John Dixon||reply 243||05/20/2020|
R232 That is speculative but I know ABC and it was deliberate. They want their shows and esp GH to be deified.
That is very sad about Judi. I hope she is ok. What a terrible time she's had lately.
|by John Dixon||reply 244||05/20/2020|
I haven't seen the special yet (recorded it to watch today) but the feedback I see on social media is
(a) It was a special for the masses, not for soap fans
(b) it started OK but went off into BS like Andy Cohen at the end.
PBS really needs to do a more complete look at the genre.
|by John Dixon||reply 245||05/20/2020|
That's how I feel about it R245. When Andy Cohen showed up, I knew this thing wasn't about traditional daytime serials.
|by John Dixon||reply 246||05/20/2020|
r245 Yes, a station who does not have a stake in making one show or a group of shows seem more important. ABC has an agenda. Sorry guys, it just chapped my ass about ABC. I'm on a tangent and I will stop.
PBS or Ken Burns doing a special would be heaven.
|by John Dixon||reply 247||05/20/2020|
Compare this to 50 Years of Soaps, also on network TV, and you can see how short this one fell.
|by John Dixon||reply 248||05/20/2020|
I know attempts have been made to pitch such a show to PBS but nothing materialized.
|by John Dixon||reply 249||05/20/2020|
[quote] I know attempts have been made to pitch such a show to PBS but nothing materialized.
Clip clearances would be a major headache
|by John Dixon||reply 250||05/20/2020|
These people managed to do it.
|by John Dixon||reply 251||05/20/2020|
So CBS did it and it was very even handed even opening with an ABC soap. The first hosts were from all three networks. ABC would never and has never.
|by John Dixon||reply 252||05/20/2020|
[quote] So CBS did it
Yes but back then it was free publicity - you would need ABC, Televest (P&G) and Columbia (Days, Y&R, B&B) to let researchers go through their vaults.
There is no reason for those companies to lift a finger for PBS
|by John Dixon||reply 253||05/20/2020|
I knew last night's show was doomed to fail when the EP of the show was doing press for it. She stated she is not a fan of soaps and never has been. No, shit! It was so apparent.
|by John Dixon||reply 254||05/20/2020|
Off topic, but I still can't understand why one of these nostalgia channels hasn't jumped on the old daytime soap bandwagon like Retro has done with The Doctors. I understand music rights in the 80s are a thing, but I think there are creative ways around that. I just hate that there is all this programming that is being ignored.
|by John Dixon||reply 255||05/20/2020|
I don't understand why everyone is giving Andy Cohen shit for saying "I think reality TV replaced soaps" (other than the fact that he's an annoying narcissist).
The reality is, for the MAJORITY of Americans (not die hard or "lean in" fans, like myself) the pillars that soaps offered - female centric stories, an endless supply of "what happens next," emotionally driven tales and something that (primarily women) can "own" as their own - are also offered by reality TV. In the grand scheme of American history, the latter is shinier and, because of the cheap cost, more prolific. So, for the vast majority of people (casual viewers), it has filled the need that daytime soaps once did. Couple this with technological and habit changes (working outside the home, etc) and boom.
His statement wasn't nuts. He's a narcissist though.
|by John Dixon||reply 256||05/20/2020|
R256 I agree. There's a reason why MTV's Real World was spearheaded by Mary-Ellis Bunim.
|by John Dixon||reply 257||05/20/2020|
R250 I don't think it would be quite the nightmare you'd think. I would assume all three networks would see inclusion in a PBS show as a badge of honor.
The bigger challenge is to convince PBS it's worth doing, and to have someone who can do a take on all of it that covers history and nails all the academic parts, but also gets to the heart of why the soaps resonate.
It would also be hard to show clips out of context, so any clip shown where there's serious dramatic action (e.g. Karen Wolek on the stand, Reva in the fountain) would have to have some introduction to them.
|by John Dixon||reply 258||05/20/2020|
Soaps should have gone back to 30 minutes in all honesty. GL and ATWT would be on the air today if they'd done that. Ditto those canceled ABC shows.
|by John Dixon||reply 259||05/20/2020|
R259 Creatively and cost effectively, yes, agree 100 percent.
But we always look at these shows with our hearts and our eyes and ears. The companies that produce them only saw them as money generating bumpers between ads they sold, and when they stopped shitting out tons of money, off they went.
|by John Dixon||reply 260||05/20/2020|
[quote] Off topic, but I still can't understand why one of these nostalgia channels hasn't jumped on the old daytime soap bandwagon like Retro has done with The Doctors
The Doctors was owned by Colgate-Palmolive so the ownership rights are easy to get.
ABC & P&G are quite content to let their library of soaps sit in a vault collecting dust. They see no reason to release any of their library, and even if they did the return would be minimal, so what is the point?
|by John Dixon||reply 261||05/20/2020|
[quote] I would assume all three networks would see inclusion in a PBS show as a badge of honor.
They see soaps as shit, why would we waste our time on such a shitty industry? The executives still feel that way. Hell, they would allow clip clearances for game shows as in their minds, that is more prestigious than a soap.
|by John Dixon||reply 262||05/20/2020|
Is that Kathleen Widdoes? I thought that it was Bob Hoskins at first.
|by John Dixon||reply 263||05/20/2020|
[quote] Both OLTL and AMC had very low ratings. What was controversial?
With OLTL, it was especially controversial because by the time it ended it was the highest rated soap on ABC and was, along with DAYS, the only soap to have gained year-to-year viewers. Not to mention they were presenting the most compelling soap they had in years, they were really in a renaissance. Even today the soaps, which are cheaper to produce, have as high ratings as some more expensive primetime shows, which get renewed.
|by John Dixon||reply 264||05/20/2020|
Even GL, in its last several years, was STILL MAKING MONEY.
They didn't cancel them because they were losing money.....they cancelled them because they weren't making enough profit for their liking.
|by John Dixon||reply 265||05/20/2020|
R265 Exactly. The problem GL and ATWT had, was that P&G was the middle man. And they wanted out of the business. What was egregious about ABC is there was no middle man.
|by John Dixon||reply 266||05/20/2020|
R264 They will never cancel GH until it passes GL for the longest running show but even then, it is their marquee show ONLY because of the 80s boom. They will cling to it until only 5 people watch which it isn't far from.
GL was improving in its last year as well. They were finally writing characters as they should have been written (Beth for one). Phillip was back. Things were heating up. There should have been more of an uproar but I think there was a bit of shock when they actually pulled the plug. We all knew once they did it to GL, they were going after others. Had GL improved 6 months sooner it miiiiight have saved it some time.
|by John Dixon||reply 267||05/20/2020|
R267 Part of the problem with GL, was that many fans hated the production changes so much, that it didn't matter how much better the writing had become. I knew some longtime fans who said they were prepared to let it go, rather than to see what it had become. I wasn't one of them, though I hated most of the changes, I would put up with them to still have GL. I fully agree the show was getting much better.
|by John Dixon||reply 268||05/20/2020|
At the end the production changes were much less noticeable. It was definitely a bumpy transition but it WAS getting better.
|by John Dixon||reply 269||05/20/2020|
R268 Production values were improving as well. They were terrible in the beginning. They have some stunning outdoor scenes towards the end.
|by John Dixon||reply 270||05/20/2020|
Yes, once GL was canned I knew ATWT, AMC and possibly DAYS or GH would go. I knew two would go for sure since GL was not much lower than 3 or 4 others. Ratings were fairly close.
|by John Dixon||reply 271||05/20/2020|
R270 That was part of the problem. They were improving but many people had already abandoned the show. I know people who had stopped because they hated the changes but then tuned in for the last few weeks and loved it. They said if it had been like that from the beginning of the changes they never would have stopped.
|by John Dixon||reply 272||05/20/2020|
I was one who stopped watching due to character assassination. It just went too far. This was 2005 and I never ever thought I'd stop watching the show. I tuned in to see the production changes and wow were they terrible in the beginning. Terrible. But by late 08/early 2009 things were much improved all around. I enjoyed the show for the first time in ages.
|by John Dixon||reply 273||05/20/2020|
When I saw the Peapack Spaulding Mansion, I just couldn't do it. They could have been doing Shakespeare and I would not have been able to deal with it.
|by John Dixon||reply 274||05/20/2020|
You might say P&G wanted out of soaps, but affiliates were telling the network they didn't want to air soaps anymore
Guiding Light was only available in 75% of the country - affiliates were NOT making money on soaps, and they could have made MORE money airing talk shows.
So not only did P&G want out,. CBS affiliates wanted out as well. It was only a matter of time before 50% of the affiliates were to stop airing soaps. If affiliates don't air soaps, they won't survive.
|by John Dixon||reply 275||05/20/2020|
In another 3 to 5 years the affiliate system will be falling apart, everyone is streaming now anyway.
|by John Dixon||reply 276||05/20/2020|
PBS aired a documentary about soaps in the early 80s, during the height of the soap craze. As I recall, it was a 3 part series. Maybe a few more.
What I'm remembering of it was that it seemed very factually accurate. I remember Ruth Warick serving as the narrator at least for one of the episodes. She talked about soaps can trace their origins back to Charles Dickens novels which were serialized into chapters and published in the London newspapers and always left readers on a cliffhanger.
Maybe it was British made? Wish I could remember more. Wish I'd taped it and saved it. I have that World of Soaps special from 1994 in my collection.
|by John Dixon||reply 277||05/20/2020|
R275 What is your source for it only being available in 75% of markets? I know that many markets aired it at a different time slot, usually 9 or 10am. The market next to mine did that. It appears to be the opposite with the ABC soaps; their affiliates were some of the people complaining about the cancelling of theirs.
|by John Dixon||reply 278||05/20/2020|
The What Is Your Source Queen is here again!
|by John Dixon||reply 279||05/20/2020|
I think ego had a lot to do with OLTL's being canceled.
ABC had always treated OLTL as the red headed stepchild. AMC was the prestige show while GH was the ultra popular show and then OLTL was the one in between those two.
When they decided to cancel AMC, it was no surprise.. Show was in horrible shape both creatively and financially. Had been for the past 5-7 years. Show was a shell of it former self. Frankly, its cancellation was somewhat expected.
As someone explained above, OLTL was on a ratings upsurge. Was the highest rated of the three ABC shows. Both creatively and financially, it was in great shape.
I just don't think ego-wise, ABC could cancel its prestige soap while letting the red headed stepchild live on. Thus, if one had to die, network opted to kill both of them.
|by John Dixon||reply 280||05/20/2020|
R279 I rarely ask for sources. I just want to know about it. I googled about it but couldn't find it.
|by John Dixon||reply 281||05/20/2020|
This is an old article but it talks about some of the stations that didn't carry GL at all.
Most of the CBS O&O stations carried it in the morning.
|by John Dixon||reply 282||05/20/2020|
R282 Thanks I knew not everyone carried it but I still think 25% of affiliates not airing it at all seems rather high. I, also, never realized until reading that article that Sunset Beach was supposed to be scheduled at 3:00pm opposite GL and GH. In my market it aired at noon, which allowed me to watch the first half of it before Y&R came on.
|by John Dixon||reply 283||05/20/2020|
Plus, P&G didn't need the hassle of actually owning daytime soaps, when they can just as easily buy advertising on ones they don't own. They still advertise heavily in the daypart, and anyone who watches Spanish language telenovelas can see how much they've moved into that space as well.
|by John Dixon||reply 284||05/20/2020|
The 80s did more damage to soap opera than anything. Mainly those 80s budgets. Up until the 80s soaps were produced for next to nothing with a limited amount of sets, a small core cast and they all returned major profits. These shows weren't meant to have skylines, sprawling casts (Didn't Doug Marland have like 50 contract players at one time?!?!) , and designer wardrobes.
The five things that contribute to the downfall of soap opera:
1) The Hour
2) Gloria Monty
3) The 80s (budgets/big business stories/big boobs)
4) Oprah and the rise of afternoon syndication
5) The end of new soap and headwriter development. Just stick with the ones that work and recycle the writers.
|by John Dixon||reply 285||05/20/2020|
[quote] These shows weren't meant to have skylines,
Depends on the show. I would say GL, ATWT, AMC, DAYS, and Loving were meant to be small towns, along with Search For Tomorrow and Love of Life. But GH, OLTL and AW were always meant to be mid-sized cities, with skylines. I'm not sure about Y&R, it could have gone either way. Other midsize city shows included The Doctors and the Edge of Night. Ryan's Hope, Capital, The City, and B&B, were unique since they were set in actual cities.
|by John Dixon||reply 286||05/20/2020|
Y&R’s set in Genoa City so I’ve always been fine if there was a skyline in evidence. That there was one in AMC’s Pine Valley was absolutely ridiculous.
|by John Dixon||reply 287||05/20/2020|
You guys must have been watching an alternate GL because I tried to watch it several times in its last year, and it was really, really bad. The dialogue sucked and the direction was terrible. I won't go into the sets or costumes, which are less important to me. I remember thinking someone should put this dog down so no one will have to continue to suffer.
|by John Dixon||reply 288||05/20/2020|
R287 Except the real Geona City, WI is tiny. Apparently the biggest news in the last few years was that a Dollar General opened up.
|by John Dixon||reply 289||05/20/2020|
In the beginning, Y&R's Genoa City was supposed to be a small town. One of the first lines uttered was by waitress Sally McGuire bemoaning the fact that she's "stuck in a place like Genoa City" .. lol! There was a newspaper, a hospital, a hotel, and a factory (The Chancellor Plant, which served as the main employer), but those type of things were pretty common in plenty of small, Midwestern towns back then.
Within a few years, though, things began to change. The Prentiss Family was introduced, and they owned Prentiss Industries. Eldest son, Lance, would fly to exotic places in his private jet. Laurie Brooks moved into a penthouse in the sky. And by the early 80s, there were new businesses in town like Newman Enterprises, Jabot Cosmetics, and Fenmores Department Store. So these businesses added substantial wealth and elements of glamour and fashion. In short, The Big 80s were in full swing. And of course, we soon got the Genoa City Mob, which meant big time crime had arrived.
As I recall, it was sometime in the mid-80s when Pittsburgh would occasionally be used as a stand-in for Genoa City. And Genoa City really did seem like it had to be at least that size for all the stuff that characters were getting involved in. Occasionally, they'd do something small town silly like show someone at a phone booth looking through a phone directory, yet it was less than a half-inch thick. .. lol! But still to this day, One Oxford Tower in Pittsburgh is used for the exterior shot of Newman Enterprises, and the skyline looks like this:
|by John Dixon||reply 290||05/20/2020|
Didn't Springfield grow into being practically NYC? It seemed to be a combo huge city/country/suburban/ near a lake and river.
|by John Dixon||reply 291||05/20/2020|
R291 That was part of the problem with the Peapack version at the end. Springfield had by that time been depicted as a big city, yet was now a small town again.
|by John Dixon||reply 292||05/20/2020|
R292 To be fair, it always portrayed that it had a part of town like peapack.
|by John Dixon||reply 293||05/20/2020|
R293 And GH has been depicted as having docks, but if they tried to film the entire show in a ship yard, it wouldn't look right.
|by John Dixon||reply 294||05/20/2020|
R283 I remember seeing a number in the high 70s or low 80s for clearance.
I will look for something more specific to source that....I know I have seen it somewhere in an interview.
|by John Dixon||reply 295||05/20/2020|
I think San Fran dropped GL altogether early in the 90s. It was very shocking at the time.
|by John Dixon||reply 296||05/20/2020|
It is so strange, to me, that affiliates are allowed to not show daytime programming, when they tend to get in big trouble with the network if they don't show their prime-time shows. If I were a network, they would be required to clear all our programming.
|by John Dixon||reply 297||05/20/2020|
Ryan's Hope was the worst in terms of clearance, when they were cancelled I think their clearance percentage was in the 40s or 50s. Since Agnes Nixon pushed them back to noon, and so many stations had noon news, it sealed RHs fate.
|by John Dixon||reply 298||05/20/2020|
Y&R had almost no competition during its 80s run on. No real competition. It almost achieved this aura about it that, I think, gave it a clear advantage. It was like all the other shows were also rans because of how much Y&R beat them in ratings. But again, it had no real competition. In my area, AMC didn't really have competition except news and Capitol then BB. When BB started taking off, AMC's ratings started to suffer.
BB was so bad. Trash. Such a shame it is one of the last 4 to survive.
|by John Dixon||reply 299||05/20/2020|
[quote] It is so strange, to me, that affiliates are allowed to not show daytime programming, when they tend to get in big trouble with the network if they don't show their prime-time shows.
I remember talking to a station manager who came in to talk to our college communication class, and he told me that Southern stations would often refuse to carry network shows, as many were resistant to show content with black characters or mixed couples, etc. until the 70s "Norman Lear" era. Indeed, several Southern stations dropped OLTL when they did the Carla story.
Local stations used to do a lot more of their own local programming too. My hometown CBS affiliate didn't carry As The World Turns for years (until well after the Marland era, I think) because it had a local talk show in that slot. Luckily, our cable system included another CBS affiliate, and that's how I got my daily fill of Oakdale!
|by John Dixon||reply 300||05/20/2020|
R298 Wasn't that what killed Search For Tomorrow and The Doctors, as well.
|by John Dixon||reply 301||05/20/2020|
Soaps don't make local stations any money
Airing syndicated crap and their local newscasts do - and affiliates were beginning to rebel and wanted OUT of airing soaps. So it was only a matter of time, before more affiliates started dropping soaps off their schedule.
|by John Dixon||reply 302||05/20/2020|
Then how have GH and DAYS able to stay on air with their pitiful ratings?
|by John Dixon||reply 303||05/20/2020|
Most network shows don't make local stations much money. It would be one thing if the networks cancelled the shows and gave the hours back to the affiliates, but they didn't. Whether, the networks are programming the hour with soaps, talk shows, game shows, news, etc. the local affiliate only gets to sell a few local ads. Local affiliates like syndicated shows because they get a larger share of the advertising pie. I happen to know a person who worked in a local affiliate near me, who said his company made it clear to ABC, that if they had continued to produce AMC and OLTL, but sold it to them as a syndicated show, instead of as a network show, his entire station group would have gladly bought them. He said that his channel was especially upset, because their noon news ratings tanked when AMC ended. Because many people watched their news show so that they wouldn't forget to change the channel and miss the beginning of AMC. When it ended the people just watched the CBS or NBC affiliate.
|by John Dixon||reply 304||05/20/2020|
[quote] Then how have GH and DAYS able to stay on air with their pitiful ratings?
Because they air earlier in the afternoon - GH was moved up an hour early, as affiliates has asked for years to get that 3PM timeslot back so they can air a syndicated talk show.
Affiliates wanted anything after 2PM to be turned over to them to program what they want. Unfortunately for ABC affiliates, they only have after 3PM as their own. If it was up to them they would have GH air at 1PM so they can have the 2PM slot back.
Now there are affiliates out there who don't air any soaps, and they are happy with that. They have that entire afternoon for themselves.
But for now some will settle for 3PM as there domain. btw there are many CBS affiliates that don't air "the Talk" and prefer to keep that 2PM slot to themselves.
|by John Dixon||reply 305||05/20/2020|
R305 I'm not sure, I do know that they allow the affiliates to choose to air Let's Make a Deal at either 10:00am or 3:00pm, just like they did with Guiding Light. It was strange that my local CBS affiliate always aired GL at 3:00 but chose to put Let's Make A Deal at 10:00. It is surprising because they seem to have never had a hit in that time slot since GL was cancelled. Every big syndicated show they schedule there seems to only last a season or two before they move it.
|by John Dixon||reply 306||05/20/2020|
R306 I think because more and more affiliates were flexing their muscles, the network was trying to be flexible with them in terms of when to air network shows.
The bottom line is that affiliates can air those shows anytime they want, or not air them at all.
|by John Dixon||reply 307||05/20/2020|
R307 The networks should have just offered the affiliates more advertising space during the shows. If they had done that the affiliates might have been placated because unlike with syndicated shows they don't have to purchase them. Also, they didn't take into account that the landscape was changing. Local channels are now multiplexed. If they didn't want to air it on their main channel, they would probably now air it on one of their sub-channel.
|by John Dixon||reply 308||05/20/2020|
Days stays on because NBC is getting a bargain on the licensing fees and they probably can't find something to replace it with. (Perhaps they saw what a mess ABC made with the whole Katie/The Chew/The Revolution).
I thought for sure that Corday's lawsuit against Sony would be the final nail in the show's coffin, but because that didn't happen it's clear that Days is still making both the network and Sony money in some fashion.
Quite frankly, I think the only reason GH is still on is because Days is still on. I have nothing to back that up, except a silly hunch.
|by John Dixon||reply 309||05/20/2020|
I'm shocked GH is still on the air but I think they want to break GL's record THEN cancel it. My local affiliate still airs it at 2pm central. GL always did well here. Our local CBS affiliate was not happy when it was canceled. Big Houston market.
DAYS is shocking. It has been performing poorly for a long time. NBC seems like they desperately want out of the soap biz. Maybe they still want ONE on the air to beat ABC?
|by John Dixon||reply 310||05/20/2020|
Even as bad as the Peapack production values were I'd gladly take GL back. I just really miss those characters.
|by John Dixon||reply 311||05/20/2020|
R310 Which record? If it is television, they reach it this year, but If they want to fully beat GL, GH would need to run for over 72 years which would be 2035. Either way the US, which invented the soap opera, has now lost the records to the UK, The Archers has run on BBC radio since 1951 and Coronation Street on ITV since 1960.
|by John Dixon||reply 312||05/20/2020|
R312 ABC wants the television bragging rights. GL will remain the longest running show in US history.
|by John Dixon||reply 313||05/20/2020|
R313 Scripted show. Meet The Press is the longest running TV show and the Grand Ole Opry is the longest running show across entertainment.
|by John Dixon||reply 314||05/20/2020|
R314 Guuuurl you know what I meant.
|by John Dixon||reply 315||05/20/2020|
R315 Naturally, but I unfortunately possess an insane knowledge of broadcast history, and I rarely get to display it.
|by John Dixon||reply 316||05/20/2020|
R301 Yes, particularly The Doctors, because it got shuffled to 11:00 or something, if I recall, at the very end of its life. It had been doing OK for a long time but took a relatively quick plummet once it was moved around.
Search was a bit different as it was pushed from CBS to NBC, so it was just hard for people to get used to it being on a different network.
|by John Dixon||reply 317||05/20/2020|
since this is the P&G thread
Laura Wright first day at Guiding Light where she takes her clothes off as an exotic pole dancer
Go 5:00 into video
|by John Dixon||reply 318||05/20/2020|
R316 I'll let you brag since you are in the P&G thread. :)
|by John Dixon||reply 319||05/20/2020|
R318 and here's the next part, with recent divorcees Grillo and Moniz.
|by John Dixon||reply 320||05/20/2020|
I think Wendy Moniz best storyline was when she pretended she was dying and got her entire family to feel sorry for her (her saying she lost the will to live) and somehow convinced Hart to marry her on her deathbed!
|by John Dixon||reply 321||05/20/2020|
Oh the great Tammy Blanchard was in this episode.
|by John Dixon||reply 322||05/20/2020|
This was the only stretch of Matt/Vanessa I found interesting. They were otherwise the cure for insomnia for me.
Such a sad waste of Lisa Brown during this stretch.
|by John Dixon||reply 323||05/20/2020|
(and I still want - nay, need - to know why Lisa and JWS haven't been on a Locher Room reunion yet. If they can find Kristi fucking Ferrell they can get those two to sit down and participate too!)
|by John Dixon||reply 324||05/20/2020|
Behind the scenes at Another World
|by John Dixon||reply 325||05/20/2020|
R309 Regarding Days' profitability ... When Deadline covered Days' most recent renewal this past January, they actually reported that the soap is no longer profitable for Sony. Also, it didn't really sound like NBC desperately wants out of the soap biz, R310.
[quote] Renewal negotiations had been going on for months. According to sources, the holdup in reaching a deal was related to distributor Sony Pictures TV finding ways to adjust the show’s business model, including international sales, so they can continue to make it without going in the red. Because of Days Of Our Lives‘ age and declining linear ratings in all day parts, including daytime, the show is no longer profitable for Sony TV but I hear there was full commitment by the studio and the network to find a way to keep Days Of Our Lives on the air and cancellation was never an option.
|by John Dixon||reply 326||Last Thursday at 1:19 AM|
So is it a tax write off?
|by John Dixon||reply 327||Last Thursday at 3:58 AM|
EW just announced they are doing a week long AMC reunion. They have 30 former cast members doing this. I can't wait to see everyone because some of them we haven't seen since they left the show.
|by John Dixon||reply 328||Last Thursday at 5:26 AM|
R242 who is MVJ?
|by John Dixon||reply 329||Last Thursday at 5:40 AM|
Michele Val Jean
|by John Dixon||reply 330||Last Thursday at 5:54 AM|
Sounds great, R328. I hope Jonathan Bennett is on it and reveals how many fellow cast members he sucked off when he was playing JR.
|by John Dixon||reply 331||Last Thursday at 6:50 AM|
"No longer profitable" = probably breaking even or making very little money.
Trust, they aren't keeping money losing things on the air.
"Profit center" or "profitable" in corporate land is something that has a profit margin or ROI of 20 percent or more.
|by John Dixon||reply 332||Last Thursday at 7:27 AM|
Anytime a real city gets used as a locale, the show never lasts long. LOVE IS A MANY SPLENDORED THING and CAPITOL. The former used San Francisco, the latter was based in Washington DC.
|by John Dixon||reply 333||Last Thursday at 7:28 AM|
LOVE IS A MANY SPLENDORED THING was the first time we saw this legend on daytime......
|by John Dixon||reply 334||Last Thursday at 7:39 AM|
I didn't know La Bev was in LIAMST. Any chance people have videos from that?
|by John Dixon||reply 335||Last Thursday at 7:53 AM|
R333 Except, of course, B&B and prime time soaps.
|by John Dixon||reply 336||Last Thursday at 8:18 AM|
R335 There used to be some on YT but it seems like many of them were taken down.
There only seems to be one episode of LIAMST on YT right now (about four different accounts have uploaded it differently, but it's all the same - with a young Leslie Charleson in one of the segments).
|by John Dixon||reply 337||Last Thursday at 8:34 AM|
LIAMST was also, I believe, where Beverlee and Zaslow first worked together (and clashed).
|by John Dixon||reply 338||Last Thursday at 8:36 AM|
Why you won't find LIAMST ...
[quote] All 1,430 episodes of Love Is a Many Splendored Thing were recorded on videotape at the CBS Broadcast Center Studio #41 in New York City. Like most soap operas of the late 1960s/early 1970s, it fell victim to the industry practice of wiping tapes for reuse. Although the master tapes of the serial were erased, some rare kinescopes of episodes remain in the possession of private collectors. Only seven videotapes of the series are confirmed to exist. These are non-circulating copies stored at the UCLA Film and Television Archive. The archived episodes were telecast: March 8, 16, and 24, 1971, April 1 and 9, 1971, and March 12 and 20, 1973.
|by John Dixon||reply 339||Last Thursday at 10:16 AM|
I'm still here damn it!
|by John Dixon||reply 340||Last Thursday at 8:03 PM|
I want to watch the episodes from 1991 when Lucinda lost Walsh Enterprises to Connor, Kirk and Evan. Liz Hubbard and Allyson Rice Taylor were both amazing in those episodes
|by John Dixon||reply 341||Last Thursday at 8:14 PM|
What about me???
|by John Dixon||reply 342||Last Thursday at 8:16 PM|
here is a REAL TREAT for you P&G fans
Raw footage from behind the scenes as they shoot a scene from Guiding Light
What is interesting is that actors who are not in this scene are sitting off stage watching the scene - i would think they would be in their dressing room running lines, or in the actors lounge
|by John Dixon||reply 343||Last Thursday at 9:17 PM|
Interesting to see some of the permanent sets set up. I know in 1989 they were still in their old classic studio. When I saw the set, they were at the Broadcast Center in what used to be the old ATWT space there.
|by John Dixon||reply 344||Last Friday at 6:47 AM|
Alan Locher said that a very highly anticipated reunion will be announced at noon today.
Thinking this could possibly be Lisa Brown and John Wesley Shipp. OR possibly Justin Deas/Beth Ehlers/Coopers.
|by John Dixon||reply 345||Last Friday at 6:48 AM|
ATWT's Marnie Schulenburg just had a baby and has been diagnosed with Stage 4 breast cander.
|by John Dixon||reply 346||Last Friday at 8:04 AM|
Justin Deas (ex-Buzz), Frank Dicopoulos (ex-Frank), John Driscoll (ex-Coop), Beth Ehlers (ex-Harley) and Fiona Hutchison (ex-Jenna) will do a virtual Guiding Light reunion
This is HUGE as Justin Deas NEVER does interviews and this is the FIRST interview Beth Ehlers has done (about Guiding Light) since she left in a huff
|by John Dixon||reply 347||Last Friday at 8:11 AM|
Yep, it was the Coopers.
The fact that Lisa and JWS still aren't doing one has me QUITE interested in why.
|by John Dixon||reply 348||Last Friday at 8:28 AM|
R348 AGAIN JWS went on twitter and said he would absolutely 100% LOVE to do one
And Alan Locher never got back to him.
|by John Dixon||reply 349||Last Friday at 8:30 AM|
We all know re JWS saying that, R349, but I am wondering WHY it's not happening.
|by John Dixon||reply 350||Last Friday at 8:33 AM|
[quote] but I am wondering WHY it's not happening.
Ask Alan Locher
|by John Dixon||reply 351||Last Friday at 8:38 AM|
Maybe JWS rebuffed Locher’s toe sucking proposition?
|by John Dixon||reply 352||Last Friday at 9:32 AM|
I blame it all on Scoche Marin.
|by John Dixon||reply 353||Last Friday at 9:37 AM|
Here’s the 50 Years of Soaps special from 1994:
|by John Dixon||reply 354||Last Friday at 9:41 AM|
For when dear Emma and her damn squash are Murieled.....
|by John Dixon||reply 355||Last Friday at 10:14 AM|
Chill, Mary Ellen. We ain’t done yet here
|by John Dixon||reply 356||Last Friday at 10:22 AM|
It's coming soon. Muriel is on a heavy flow day today
|by John Dixon||reply 357||Last Friday at 10:37 AM|
Good Lord! SOD did a short interview with Judi Evans about her fall. On top of everything she broke the doctors found a blood clot in one of her lungs. They said it was not related to the fall and told her the fall probably saved her life because they found the embolism on her scans. She remains hospitalized & her husband can't visit because of COVID.
Tina Sloan tweeted her saying something to the effect - Judi, this is your mom. I hope you feel better soon. Just know your mom the RN would gladly take care of you if I could.
|by John Dixon||reply 358||Last Friday at 11:54 AM|
OK, that makes me cry. Tina is a good person......
|by John Dixon||reply 359||Last Friday at 11:55 AM|
There goes the "Four Musketeers Guiding Light Reunion" that has been the dream of Guiding Light fans
Though Beth Chamberlain played Beth Raines longer than Judi Evans, she is not the original "Musketeer"
|by John Dixon||reply 360||Last Friday at 12:03 PM|
R292, in the beginning of GL, the town sign and fire department seen were in Springfield Township (Union County) New Jersey.
|by John Dixon||reply 361||Last Friday at 12:18 PM|
Beth Chamberlain is too busy selling her damn kettlebells!
|by John Dixon||reply 362||Last Friday at 12:51 PM|
That bitch Ava Jerome has my china
|by John Dixon||reply 363||Last Friday at 1:46 PM|
We've been Murieled, dears.
Now we're over on the rickety bridge with Solita. Do join us!
|by John Dixon||reply 364||Last Friday at 3:17 PM|