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Unpopular Opinion: The “Star Wars” Prequel Trilogy was Superior to the Disney Trilogy

Also... Hayden was good in Episode 2 (not 3) and Jar Jar wasn’t completely unlikable.

Earlier this week I decided to begin rewatching all of the Star Wars movies again, in Chronological order, and I just finished Episode III Revenge of the Sith.

I used to loath the prequel series, but rewatching it I enjoyed them very much. They aren’t as bad as everyone says, especially after watching the new Trilogy, which I felt were TERRIBLE minus The Force Awakens.

Episode I was fine, but yes, it was made for kids and to sell toys. It’s very obvious that Lucas had merchandise in mind when he made it and had a kid as one of the main characters (even in the battle) and Jar Jar Binks (who I wouldn’t mind if they didn’t make him TOO much of a cartoon, falling all over and making error after error). Many will disagree with me, but this one was the weakest of this Trilogy. I did love how youthful and handsome Ewan McGregor looked though.

Episode 2 was actually really good! Hayden Christensen gets so much shit for his performance in this series, but he was actually good in this one! I loved the scene on that sand planet where he finds his mother and starts killing all those fuckers. He was Badass in this, and oh so handsome. I couldn’t keep my eyes off of him!!!! I found him even more beautiful now than I did when I was a teen seeing this in the theaters.

The battle scenes are better in this one than Episode 1, the story less contrived and the acting overall better. Also, McGregor is far better as the Head Master with Hayden his trainee than Neeson was with McGregor as his trainee. I did hate how rushed the relationship with Padme and Anakin was.

Episode 3... ugh. I liked it. It’s a lot of brainless fun. The issue is it is far more brainless than the previous one, and at times felt too rushed. Anakin going to the dark side felt too easy. Palpatine literally spoke to him a couple of times and boom, he switches. Also, Hayden is TERRIBLE in this one. Wow, he was bad.

Also, where was Jar Jar in this? I do know that they cut his role down significantly in the second film because of how much parents hated him, but to cut him from this one completely? Seems fucked up. No one even mentions him.

Also, why was Portman’s role so small in this one. She was barely in the film!!! The film actually could have used a little more of her presence. Also, that death scene with her giving birth was so ridiculous. Ugh.

With that said, I would take ANY of these over The Last Jedi or Rise or Skywalker. Those two are complete blasphemy and aren’t even real Star Wars movies. They feel like Disney cartoons.

Also, I know Rogue One and Solo both take place before A New Hope... or am I wrong? I’ve never seen either. I wanna watch them in 100% chronological order.

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by Anonymousreply 239August 23, 2020 8:34 PM

The story was certainly superior, and the whole thing is the product of more creative minds. But the dialogue is terrible, there’s too much CGI in many of the scenes, the music is hacked to pieces, and most of the performances are bad which makes you indifferent to the characters.

by Anonymousreply 1May 14, 2020 11:47 PM

Episode 1 looks bland. Too much white and grey colors.

Episode 2 is visually the most beautiful!!! This one uses many bright and vibrant colors in scenes. A lot of blue and pink. Very pretty.

Episode 3 is the darkest, with a lot of black and red.

by Anonymousreply 2May 14, 2020 11:52 PM

The presence of one Count Glamnor Dooku, aka Darth Tyranus, elevates the prequels above all other films and he’s barely in them. You just feel him there behind the scenes and haunting the characters with his clever machinations the whole way through.

He should have been a major character. I mean, a Jedi-turned-Sith who is courageously playing both sides only to lose his beloved apprentice, his rank and eventually his life in the process? An intellectual nobleman with moderate politics in a world of militant fascistic mercenaries running the world? An elegant philosophising diplomat Elder who fights like a gentleman wearing a cape? There’s your compelling movie trilogy.

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by Anonymousreply 3May 14, 2020 11:58 PM

I basically like to watch these things, like Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, etc., fpr the way in which different worlds are created and life might be like, and usually those aspects show up only in small bits. My favorite parts of the Harry Potter films were outside of Hogwarts, as when Bellatrix visits Snape's house, or when in Episode 5 Obi Wan visits the cloner planet, I loved the approach of Count Dookous ship as it launched that parachute thing approaching the planet and sailed over the city glowing orange. I like the visionary bits, which are very piecemeal.

Every actor in the Star Wars series basically hated the dialogue. As Alec Guiness says, ...'the dialogue was pretty ropey..."

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by Anonymousreply 4May 14, 2020 11:58 PM

I was so disappointed in The Force Awakens, that I never watched the additional two movies of the Disney Trilogy. Should I even bother?

by Anonymousreply 5May 15, 2020 12:02 AM

No, just no.

The prequels are horrible movies. Hayden and Natalie are terrible, playing it way too serious. George Lucas can't do everything. He should have had someone else either write or direct.

The Disney films aren't great, but the presence of the original cast elevates the lackluster material. And the newer actors have a certain charm that was completely missing from the prequels.

by Anonymousreply 6May 15, 2020 12:16 AM

Hogwash

by Anonymousreply 7May 15, 2020 12:18 AM

r6 that was George Lucas's fault for not developing the characters in a way that makes them relatable.

I think Attack of the Clones was the problem with the prequels. They should've spent more time focusing on Anakin's transitioning to the dark side rather than all the outer-space politics that no one really understood anyway. We all knew Palpatine was evil as fuck and built the Death Star!

OP I also agree that Hayden Christensen was underappreciated in the movies. He was smoking hot then. Padme's character was also very underdeveloped after Episode 1. The scenes with Padme's family never made Attack of the Clones. It would have been more interesting if we knew she had a family that cared about her, or if one of her parents or advisers felt that Anakin was bad news and tried to cock block. That would've added more layers and suspense to her story.

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by Anonymousreply 8May 15, 2020 12:26 AM

They are pretty awful, R5. I saw them in the theater. I was embarrassed to be there for the second to last one. The final one was just a shitshow, I could laugh at that one. Good thing is, you can just watch any of the Disney SW films whenever - they have very little continuity.

by Anonymousreply 9May 15, 2020 12:37 AM

They needed better actors to pull off that dialogue but Hayden and Natalie "looked" the part. Natalie isn't a bad actress for normal rolls and Hayden is terrible period.

by Anonymousreply 10May 15, 2020 12:47 AM

I saw this scene and gasped. Hayden was truly gorgeous.

And good in Episode 2. Terrible in 3. Idk what happened.

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by Anonymousreply 11May 15, 2020 12:49 AM

I thought Revenge of the Sith was a very good movie, particularly the second half. It's very underrated, imho.

Phantom Menace and Clones were total shit, however.

by Anonymousreply 12May 15, 2020 12:55 AM

Are Padme and Anakin supposed to be the same age?

Perhaps I was drunk or stoned, but I remember thinking, "isn't he a little kid compared to her age?"

by Anonymousreply 13May 15, 2020 12:58 AM

I think Hayden Christensen was cast more for his looks than anything else, god knows he was a terribly wooden actor. He really did look like he could've been Mark Hamill's father, the resemblance was strong.

by Anonymousreply 14May 15, 2020 12:58 AM

R13 Padme is older than him.

by Anonymousreply 15May 15, 2020 1:00 AM

In Episode 1, Padme is 14 and Anakin is 9.

Episode 2 takes place 10 years later, so Padme was 24 and Anakin 19 when they married.

by Anonymousreply 16May 15, 2020 1:03 AM

I wonder why Disney Plus didn’t put Solo on yet. Or if they ever will.

by Anonymousreply 17May 15, 2020 1:10 AM

Oh.

Thank You, r15 and r16.

by Anonymousreply 18May 15, 2020 1:12 AM

[quote] Episode 1 looks bland. Too much white and grey colors.

[quote]Episode 2 is visually the most beautiful!!! This one uses many bright and vibrant colors in scenes. A lot of blue and pink. Very pretty.

[quote]Episode 3 is the darkest, with a lot of black and red.

Serious question: you’re somewhere on the spectrum, right?

by Anonymousreply 19May 15, 2020 1:17 AM

Just as with James Bond films, I think these movies suffer when people (movie makers, audiences) take them too seriously.

by Anonymousreply 20May 15, 2020 1:23 AM

Lmaoooo this scene is the perfect example to the terrible writing and terrible acting.

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by Anonymousreply 21May 15, 2020 1:25 AM

Sadly, you are correct.

by Anonymousreply 22May 15, 2020 3:48 AM

In a certain sense the Disney trilogy is worse because it could have been so much better since it wasn't getting dragged down by Lucas's ego. His original trilogy was the best because he had money, time, and technology constraints he had to work around and because his wife, among others, tamped down some of his worst impulses and ideas. When filmmakers can do whatever they want, the results are often terrible. See also: the Hobbit trilogy.

Disney gave JJ Abrams the franchise on a silver platter, and he's ultimately a hack with few original ideas and very little interest in finishing what he starts. So of course TFA was a retread of A New Hope. What was he going to do? Come up with something new? And of course he went in a completely different direction from The Last Jedi because it pissed him off that Rian Johnson was trying to do something a little original. I'm not a big fan of TLJ, but I hate Rise of Skywalker more largely because its attempt to undo TLJ made the whole thing a bigger mess than it needed to be.

Anyway, to reiterate, the Disney trilogy is terrible because it could have/should have been better, but when you compare acting, dialogue, and special effects, the prequels are still objectively worse.

by Anonymousreply 23May 15, 2020 5:19 AM

R23 well said! I don't understand how you don't plan in advance with a franchise like Star Wars.

by Anonymousreply 24May 15, 2020 5:57 AM

Yes, with a franchise this famous it's odd that Disney didn't have the storylines set in stone during pre-production. Every single film they've done was re-shot.

by Anonymousreply 25May 15, 2020 1:36 PM

Disney sucks. Idk why they’re allowed to buy everything.

by Anonymousreply 26May 15, 2020 2:53 PM

Me sa like jar jar binks

by Anonymousreply 27May 15, 2020 3:26 PM

Jar Jar should not have been sidelined the way he was in the second movie and then completely dumped for the third. Who cares that the hardcore fans hated him? They hated everything about that Trilogy, to be honest.

by Anonymousreply 28May 15, 2020 3:39 PM

Even if the prequel films are failures, they're at least swinging for the fences. The overarching story is actually quite nervy. And say what you want, but we got to see a true artistic vision play out there; Lucas's vision.

In this new Disney era, Star Wars needs someone like Kevin Fiege in charge. Not that I'm a fan of him or of the Marvel movies. I'm not. But SOMEONE has to be looking at the bigger picture. Kennedy has been a disaster.

by Anonymousreply 29May 15, 2020 3:45 PM

The last film was an insult to fans in the guise of fan service.

by Anonymousreply 30May 15, 2020 3:47 PM

As a long-time SW fan (seriously, RotJ was the first time I went to the movies), I agree. The prequels weren't what I was expecting and they had a lot of issues (dialogue, too much focus on the technical side), but the creative expansion of the setting, the underlying themes and "mythmaking", and the courage to try something new, make them much better than the painting-by-the-numbers sequels.

I think that a Favreau-Filoni team could manage the franchise well. Filoni is a creative through and through and he's basically Lucas' protege. Just watch him in the 2nd episode of "Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian." Favreau is more of a visionary with regard to the technical side of things, he's more experienced as a director and as a producer. Both are super-fans, although I think nobody can top Filoni in this regard.

by Anonymousreply 31May 15, 2020 3:52 PM

This is part of Filoni's monologue, but the whole thing is really good.

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by Anonymousreply 32May 15, 2020 3:58 PM

Clickbait title for that article.

A HUGE number of fans view the prequel trilogy as being superior to the Disney trilogy.

It had a lot of problems, but at least the story was coherent, if corny and under-developed in several places.

The Disney trilogy doesn't even try to make sense.

by Anonymousreply 33May 15, 2020 4:01 PM

They have to stop pandering to the hardcore Aspie fans and tell a good story. If the story is good, the fans will follow. I don't think most people wanted a re-tread of A New Hope, which is essentially what The Force Awakens was. We didn't need another goddamn Death Star, for starters. And for the love of God, no more Jedi vs. Sith, and the young Jedi in training! It's beyond tired. They need to start fresh.

by Anonymousreply 34May 15, 2020 4:01 PM

Look what they did with The Mandalorian, a new spin on the Star Wars saga with an original plot and it's been very well-received.

by Anonymousreply 35May 15, 2020 4:02 PM

[quote]They have to stop pandering to the hardcore Aspie fans.

The pandering was to sjw fans, not the aspie ones.

None of the hardcore fans wanted another Death Star or most of the silliness that was in these movies.

by Anonymousreply 36May 15, 2020 4:10 PM

R36 oh shut up. Still mad there was a black man in the cast? Lmaoooo

Get over it. 99% of the cast were white and you all still cry about one Black person.

And the spin-off films are better then the trilogy, as is The Mandalorian.

by Anonymousreply 37May 15, 2020 4:13 PM

The Phantom Menance was trashed by many when it came out. It even made it to the top of IMDB's worst movies of all time list. The first two prequel movies received Razzie nominations for Worst movie of the Year. Jar Jar Binks was despised by Star Wars fans.

The prequels are just no damn fun. After the backlash for the forced humor in Phantom Menance, Lucas went the other way. The result is a chore to sit through. How are you going to have Samuel Jackson in a movie and not have some camp factor to it? The two leads are boring and have no chemistry at all. It's just an unmemorable mess with Lucas' self indulgence splattered all over the screen like an inkblot made by a five year old.

The truth is that Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy. Fresh story, compelling characters, great balance between humor and drama.

by Anonymousreply 38May 15, 2020 4:18 PM

Rogue One is on many Star Wars fans best lists, r38.

by Anonymousreply 39May 15, 2020 4:21 PM

Rogue One was excellent.

by Anonymousreply 40May 15, 2020 4:23 PM

[quote]Get over it. 99% of the cast were white and you all still cry about one Black person.

r37 oh shut up. The only reason you're happy is because they cast a black person.

While the there are legions of racists and misogynists who hated the films for solely those reasons - - probably as many as those who loved the films for diversity and female power - I am not one of them. Crediting or blaming the film based solely on those reasons ignores actual story and character failures.

No, I'm mad they WASTED a character, not that he was black. I've never particularly cared the Finn was black. I cared that he was terrible, poorly developed, and way under-used. A child kidnapped and made into a stormtrooper with no past and no family could have had so many avenues to explore. In turn, his story would have added further depth to the story of an abandoned Rey also seeking her identity. We got nothing.

I never cared that they went with a woman - if they had created Rey as compelling as Ahsoka, they would have had a homerun. The hints that she's coming to Mandalorian are sending people into ecstatic fits - that it might be Rosario Dawson is being called genius.

I cared that the story was terrible. I cared that the characters (both the old ones and the new ones) were badly done, poorly developed, and in the end, weren't given worthwhile stories.

Contrary to your statement, I actually view the Disney trilogy as the worst example of audience and fan pandering that seemed to be written as fan fiction. From incoherent story lines to poorly executed story beats, it was a master class in what NOT to do when making a movie.

You will, of course, just scream racist, rather than consider that there are legitimate reasons both to like and dislike the Disney films.

by Anonymousreply 41May 15, 2020 4:44 PM

R41 what you ranted would be believable if you did not start with “ oh shut up. The only reason you're happy is because they cast a black person.”

The future certainly wouldn’t be so white.

by Anonymousreply 42May 15, 2020 4:56 PM

r42 - you would be believable if you actually knew how to read and saw that I was mocking the content free response in r37.

It's a way to emphasize the point. But, you probably wouldn't understand that any more than you understand how to parse an argument.

by Anonymousreply 43May 15, 2020 5:10 PM

The main problem with the Prequels is that they wasted the first movie by having Anakin as a child and focusing on Qui Gon Jinn who is killed off. If it had started with Anakin as a teenager they could have better established his relationships with Padme and Obi Wan. Because they started with him as a child, the other 2 films feel rushed

by Anonymousreply 44May 15, 2020 5:43 PM

The film needed to show Obi Wan’s background too. He is a major part of the Star Wars world.

by Anonymousreply 45May 15, 2020 5:50 PM

R44, I think Lucas wanted to show that Anakin's fall was ultimately rooted in hang-ups that he had from childhood on (no father figure, except for a Sith Lord who groomed him from early on, peers that really didn't understand the needs that he had, and so on). As Filoni explained in the video above, the Duel of the Fates was about which future Anakin would have: one with Qui-Gon Jinn, who would have raised him to become a self-actualized person, or one with Darth Sidious, who would make him a slave forever. Qui-Gon lost, and Anakin's course was set.

From a meta-perspective, it makes sense to show why Anakin had this strong need to save the ones he cared for, because this is the main driver behind his fall and his redemption.

by Anonymousreply 46May 15, 2020 5:55 PM

But from a narrative perspective, having Anakin and Obi Wan's relationship start and develop between movies robs the final duel of any real dramatic payoff.

by Anonymousreply 47May 15, 2020 6:03 PM

My friend made the mistake of showing his son the prequels before the originals. He was so disappointed when he got to the end of A New Hope because he was looking forward to Vader and Ben fighting again. That corridor fight really is anticlimactic if you see ROTS first.

by Anonymousreply 48May 15, 2020 6:05 PM

Absolutely true, R47!

I think the prequels could have been better if Lucas hadn't had to limit it to three movies. In fact, I think the success of Clone Wars shows that there's a lot of story to tell and that it works best with enough time. (I also think that people tend to overestimate Filoni's influence on Clone Wars; it was pretty much Lucas' baby.)

by Anonymousreply 49May 15, 2020 6:07 PM

R48, fans have tried to address this issue. It's not perfect (and I think it's not thematically appropriate), but it's a nice 'what if.' Enjoy!

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by Anonymousreply 50May 15, 2020 6:09 PM

The trouble with 'SC 38 Reimagined' is that it makes the saber battle between Luke & Vader in 'Empire' and Return/Jedi' look inferior. It really creates a cascade of disappointment.

I don't care for the Sequel trilogy; I only saw each of those once, compared to probably hundreds of views for the OT, and dozens for the PT.

How this for an unpopular opinion? Pound for pound, ounce for ounce, I like the Prequel Trilogy more than the Original Trilogy.

by Anonymousreply 51May 15, 2020 6:23 PM

[quote]The main problem with the Prequels is that they wasted the first movie by having Anakin as a child and focusing on Qui Gon Jinn who is killed off. If it had started with Anakin as a teenager they could have better established his relationships with Padme and Obi Wan. Because they started with him as a child, the other 2 films feel rushed

I agree that it would have worked better to have him start at 14 or 16, rather than 8. I liked Qui Gon, but Obi Wan should have started the prequels at the age he was in Clones. Obi Wan should have found Anakin and their relationship needed a lot more development. As good as the animated Clone Wars was, it should not have needed in order to backfill their relationship and story. Seeing Obi Wan as an apprentice doesn't add much. Showing Anakin as his apprentice just beginning his training would have added a lot more.

by Anonymousreply 52May 15, 2020 6:34 PM

The prequels are still “art” IMO. At times, poorly acted/written art, but art.

The sequels are the kind of design by committee schlock that has no discernible beating heart whatsoever.

Originals > Prequels > Sequels

by Anonymousreply 53May 15, 2020 6:37 PM

[quote]My friend made the mistake of showing his son the prequels before the originals.

The Machete Order is the best way to watch it if you're not going to watch in release order.

ANH, ESB, AotC, RotS, RotJ - skipping TPM in its entirity. This way, the 2 prequels serve as an extended flashback right after the big reveal at the end of Empire, then you jump to the aftermath of the reveal. This flashback creates more dramatic tension for Jedi and the Luke/Vader final confrontation.

by Anonymousreply 54May 15, 2020 6:39 PM

Love that, r54! How creative!

by Anonymousreply 55May 15, 2020 6:47 PM

I agree that the Phantom Menace should've started with Anakin as a teen, they should've just gone ahead and cast Christensen from the very beginning. A flashback scene doing a summary of Anakin's childhood would've been sufficient. Watching a movie that focused on a 10 year-old was pretty boring.

by Anonymousreply 56May 15, 2020 6:48 PM

That’s why Phantom Menace made so much more than the other two...

by Anonymousreply 57May 15, 2020 6:52 PM

[quote]The prequels are still “art” IMO. At times, poorly acted/written art, but art.

There's nothing artistic about sticking actors in front of a green screen for two hours. The prequels are two hour promotional videos for CGI.

The originals used models and puppetry to convey its message. The Cantina scene in Star Wars is still as wonderful all these years later.

Making Yoda CGI was just one way that Lucas completely lost the plot.

by Anonymousreply 58May 15, 2020 6:54 PM

[quote]The prequels are just no damn fun

This. The prequel trilogy killed my love for the series. I adored the original trilogy as a kid but I just don't care about the Star Wars universe anymore. I haven't even seen the last movie or Rogue One and really don't care if I ever do.

by Anonymousreply 59May 15, 2020 6:55 PM

Yoda was not CGI in The Phantom Menace. He was in the other two.

He looks better in TPM

by Anonymousreply 60May 15, 2020 6:55 PM

R59 what about Solo?

by Anonymousreply 61May 15, 2020 6:55 PM

You had me until your last sentence, R23.

The prequels were way better than the last three. It was so disappointing to see them and how they ended the whole thing.

Why the fuck do they kill Solo? Why the fuck didn’t they use Luke more? It’s all crap.

by Anonymousreply 62May 15, 2020 6:58 PM

I see the Prequel Trilogy as beginning where it does because it introduces the most important characters to the later trilogy - Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader), Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Palpatine, whose arc towards becoming Chancellor and eventually Emperor begins in 'Phantom'. That's why I'm satisfied with where it begins, with but one qualification:

For me, it's a disappointment that Palpatine simply appears out of nowhere at the beginning of 'Phantom's' narrative, without any explanation for who he is and where he came from; the most powerful character in all of the Star Wars films.

by Anonymousreply 63May 15, 2020 6:59 PM

Ford wanted Han to die decades ago. He came back so they could finally off him for good but agreed to make an appearance in the sequels.

by Anonymousreply 64May 15, 2020 6:59 PM

I prefer Revenge Of The Sith to Return Of The Jedi. By quite a bit, actually. Jedi is very poorly made. And Jesus Christ, those fucking Ewoks...

by Anonymousreply 65May 15, 2020 7:00 PM

r61, I saw Solo but didn't like it much. The main guy wasn't a bad actor but he looked so unlike Harrison Ford it just kept taking me out of the movie. The story was a mess and the supporting characters aside from Chewie and Lando weren't interesting to me.

by Anonymousreply 66May 15, 2020 7:02 PM

I loved Kira and L3 in Solo.

by Anonymousreply 67May 15, 2020 7:03 PM

I didn't watch the Parkinson interview again posted above but I saw it a long time ago. Doesn't Sir Alec say he was cheated out of .25% of the profits or gross? Whichever it was it would have been an enormous sum of money. Even if he didn't need it he could have set up a charity or scholarship fund with it.

by Anonymousreply 68May 15, 2020 7:08 PM

WRONG.

The hatred for THE LAST JEDI is irrational and Russian bot-generated.

Most people really loved THE LAST JEDI; that's why it got a 91% Fresh tomato rating. THE FORCE AWAKENS got a whopping 93%.

Compare that to the prequels: THE PHANTOM MENACE was trashed with 53% and the banal ATTACK OF THE CLONES could only muster 65%.

Two Good Movies + One Stinker at Disney = SUPERIOR to Two Stinkers + One Good Movie for the prequels.

The critics are in agreement with the general, public consensus about these films.

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by Anonymousreply 69May 15, 2020 7:08 PM

I think Revenge of the Sith is a great film. I agree, it's very underrated. It has Ian McDirarmid camping it up. He's fantastic in the movie and really deserved an Oscar nomination. Also, I absolutely adore John Williams' score for this film (and the other prequels). Williams really could have phoned it in, but I thought the scores were excellent.

I think Hayden was cast because of his looks, too. I don't think he's a bad actor, though. I think Lucas thought he could tap into the Titanic fan syndrome since Attack of the Clones came out a few years after Titanic's huge success.

The prequels are not perfect, but I felt there was some semblance of telling a story, whereas with the Disney trilogy, you could tell they were making it up as the went along. The last in the Disney trilogy was HORRIBLE. A complete shit show. It was like "This will do". Bringing back the Emperor again was lame and reeked of desperation. Plus, I didn't feel any of the newer characters were that interesting. Rey was not compelling in any way.

Rogue One is excellent. But I do like Solo. Both of those films actually feel like they were set in the Star Wars universe. Solo actually is the first film to capture the spirit of the first Star Wars movie.

by Anonymousreply 70May 15, 2020 7:14 PM

r11 I remember being in 5th grade on my first date (with a girl) watching that scene and knowing that this entire straight thing wasn't going to work out. I was the age demo for these movies. I loved E1 for the visuals. Nabo was a perfect looking planet and the Queen's costume were fabulous. Baby Anakin was annoying.

Why did Lucus go for unknown actors. Yes, it worked enough in the 70s, but really an experienced actor was used for everyone else, why based your story around some local theater Canadian?

I thought E2 was very forgetful. E3 was fun for the drama and CGI.

I can hardly watch the old ones because I don't like the actors, minus Ford. The new movies do suck. But Rogue One, which really isn't a SW movie, was really good.

I saw the Adam driver movie, once they mentioned NEW death star I was completely done with the series. I low key prefer Star Trek. I mean look at the cast. I would have loved to be in an orgy with all of the actors.

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by Anonymousreply 71May 15, 2020 7:15 PM

That’s what they are trying to do for the Obi Wan series, R45.

Unfortunately it’s on hold because of incompetence on Disney’s part or the producers. Ewan won’t look young much longer....

by Anonymousreply 72May 15, 2020 7:15 PM

Mr. Plinkett knows.

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by Anonymousreply 73May 15, 2020 7:16 PM

No they need to do a serious all about life on the death star, sort of like a Three's Company mixed with the Golden Girls.

by Anonymousreply 74May 15, 2020 7:17 PM

They tried that, r74, and it SUCKED BANTHA BALLS.

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by Anonymousreply 75May 15, 2020 7:19 PM

Mr. Plinkett owns the OP.

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by Anonymousreply 76May 15, 2020 7:20 PM

They both sucked.

by Anonymousreply 77May 15, 2020 7:22 PM

When I saw the big battle on Scarif in Rogue One I thought "THIS is what they should've done on Endor in Return of the Jedi instead of those fucking Ewoks!" A big Rebels vs. Empire battle to close out the first trilogy instead of those Ewoks everyone hated would've made for a much better film.

by Anonymousreply 78May 15, 2020 7:23 PM

Revenge of the Sith is a very well-done film, but unfortunately it suffered because of the stink left from Phantom Menace and Clones. Those two were such terrible movies it took the luster away from Star Wars and Revenge of the Sith wasn't as appreciated as it should've been.

by Anonymousreply 79May 15, 2020 7:25 PM

[quote]he prequels are not perfect, but I felt there was some semblance of telling a story, whereas with the Disney trilogy, you could tell they were making it up as the went along. The last in the Disney trilogy was HORRIBLE.

Exactly. God only knows why. As has been mentioned above, it's incredible they didn't have a concrete story arc for all three films in the trilogy and everything mapped out from the very beginning. It was so amateurish, and really unexpected for such a huge big-budget franchise. You'd think they would've had everything locked down before they even started filming Force Awakens.

by Anonymousreply 80May 15, 2020 7:28 PM

Attack of the Clones wasn’t even that bad. Phantom Menace was.

by Anonymousreply 81May 15, 2020 7:28 PM

r75, she should have done Hard-Hearted Hannah

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by Anonymousreply 82May 15, 2020 7:29 PM

R71 they go for unknowns because they’re cheap. If they went for an established star, they would eat up a lot of the budget, as well as try to negotiate a percentage etc. unknowns take what they can get.

Plus it catapults the unknown into stardom.

Hayden was hated at the time for his performance, but he sure did become a household name all over the world at the time.

And Portman also.

by Anonymousreply 83May 15, 2020 7:30 PM

The cast of Star Trek were mostly unknowns too. The actors did some work prior but they were far from “stars”.

Zoe has Star Trek and Avatar the same year.

by Anonymousreply 84May 15, 2020 7:32 PM

[quote] Plus, I didn't feel any of the newer characters were that interesting. Rey was not compelling in any way.

Except for Oscar Isaac, none of the new trilogy actors were terribly interesting.

What made the original trilogy so special was that Ford, Fisher and Hamill had lots of charisma and the three of them had wonderful chemistry with each other. They played their roles so well that you really cared about those characters and what happened to them. And then you had Alec Guinness playing the role of Obi Wan like he was playing Shakespeare. He was a major talent whose professional skill was a huge selling point for making you believe that this universe and all the things in it were believable and could exist. It wasn't just the special effects alone, it was a very special group of actors who brought those characters to life that made the first trilogy so great.

by Anonymousreply 85May 15, 2020 7:38 PM

Oscar Isaac is not compelling in the least. And he was supposed to die at the beginning of TFA. He begged JJ to not kill him off.

by Anonymousreply 86May 15, 2020 7:40 PM

I only remember Darth maul, the pod race, and the cringe acting performances. barely remember the second one but the last one I saw in theaters and the audience actually clapped. Me and my mom looked at each other and laughed.

by Anonymousreply 87May 15, 2020 7:52 PM

Lol r87. Your mom sounds fun!

by Anonymousreply 88May 15, 2020 8:02 PM

Mr. Plinkett suggests the whole "Reassessing the Prequels" is a Disney-generated publicity campaign to increase profits for Disney Plus.

OP fell for it. Or is OP being paid to shill for the Magic Kingdom?

@ 31:55:

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by Anonymousreply 89May 15, 2020 8:06 PM

R89 huh? I literally just randomly decided to watch them again because I do have Apple Plus. I paid for the full year at once.

by Anonymousreply 90May 15, 2020 8:15 PM

OP's got a hard on for Jar-Jar Binks!

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by Anonymousreply 91May 15, 2020 8:18 PM

I get what you're saying r83, but Avengers became an arguably larger franchise with well enough known actors in every role, minus Spider Man. It made everyone money. Disney brought some experienced actors, but Hayden was a disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 92May 15, 2020 8:19 PM

Christensen is actually quite good in Shattered Glass. He’s just not the kind of actor who can handle the big operatic, comic book stuff. Same goes for Portman. The Brits (McGregor and McDiarmid, especially) knew how to handle the artifice. It’s in their training.

Mark Hamill isn’t actually a great thespian, but he had the right skill set and made it work.

by Anonymousreply 93May 15, 2020 8:26 PM

[quote]That’s why Phantom Menace made so much more than the other two...

It had been 20 years since RotJ. Fans were desperate for Star Wars movies - at that point, all they had were a few videogames and books.

A big reason TPM did so well was that pent up demand. However, after people saw it, they realized that any movie was not, in fact, better than no movies. The lowered performance of the next two movies were a direct result of the the first one. You can see similar performance curves on other movie series.

by Anonymousreply 94May 15, 2020 8:27 PM

Agreed, OP.

by Anonymousreply 95May 15, 2020 8:38 PM

Which movie was the one where he became Darth Vader? That was my favorite and I loved that scene.

by Anonymousreply 96May 15, 2020 8:40 PM

[quote]Which movie was the one where he became Darth Vader?

Revenge of the Sith - everything leading up to putting on the mask was well-done...until the "noooooo" when Palpatine tells him he killed Padme.

by Anonymousreply 97May 15, 2020 8:49 PM

Yeah, that was cringeworthy.

That whole scene was ridiculous, honestly. They’re putting parts on the man and boots and he’s still smoking from the burn wounds!!

They didn’t clean him up or anything😳😳.

No bacta tube like what Luke had, it’s dumb.

by Anonymousreply 98May 15, 2020 9:51 PM

R92 Avengers was years later. And stars kept away from superhero stuff for YEARS, and didn’t sign onto the superhero stuff until after they became the most established movies.

The early Marvel stuff cast small actors, or has beens. RDJ was not a big star when he became Iron Man. Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth were not big stars. ScarJo, Jeremy Renner were not big stars. They became big stars because of the franchise. Same as the Star Wars movies.

by Anonymousreply 99May 15, 2020 10:18 PM

[quote]Seeing Obi Wan as an apprentice doesn't add much. Showing Anakin as his apprentice just beginning his training would have added a lot more.

I think this would've made a huge difference, and it also would've given Padme and Anakin's relationship more time to really develop like a true love story. I also would've liked to see Bail Organa have more screen time with Padme since he was a central figure to the overall story. Maybe Leia's early life can be the topic of another Disney movie.

by Anonymousreply 100May 15, 2020 10:37 PM

There were some deleted scenes both in AotC and RotS that I would have loved to see included. It's not much and it fixes not the underlying problem, but it gives more context. For instance, these romance scenes in AotC.

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by Anonymousreply 101May 15, 2020 10:44 PM

Or the birth of the Rebel Alliance subplot in RotS.

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by Anonymousreply 102May 15, 2020 10:44 PM

Are with r85 100%. The chemistry the trio had was irreplaceable.

People also forget that Harrison Ford was one of sexiest men on earth during the original trilogy. I remember wishing as a gayling that Lando and Han were romantically involved in some way!

by Anonymousreply 103May 15, 2020 10:49 PM

[quote]Are with [R85] 100%. The chemistry the trio had was irreplaceable.

To me, the worst part is that it could have been so much better even with Rey, Finn, and Po - they needed to spend more screen and adventure time together.

Oscar Isaac may not be as sexy as a young Ford, but he's still a very sexy guy and a very good actor. If they were going to have a trio, they needed to BE a trio.

When you watch the original Magnificent Seven, you become invested in the ups and down of the group. Same for Luke, Leia, and Han (and Chewie, R2, 3PO). We never get a cohesive group to root for, so the entire story becomes fragmented and disjointed.

by Anonymousreply 104May 15, 2020 10:59 PM

The one good thing about the Disney trilogy was I thought Mark Hamill did a fantastic job as Luke. He's really become a solid actor. In the original he was charismatic but he was still learning as an actor. In TLJ, I felt he really inhabited older Luke. I know Hamill wasn't crazy with what Johnson did with Luke in the film but I liked the arc the character was given and Hamill played it perfectly.

Plus, I just really like Hamill. He's great on Twitter. He treats the fans well, he's very progressive (hates Trump) and has a good sense of humour.

by Anonymousreply 105May 16, 2020 12:06 AM

[quote] And for the love of God, no more Jedi vs. Sith, and the young Jedi in training! It's beyond tired. They need to start fresh.

To each their own. Personally I enjoy the Jedi muckity-muck over anything else in the SW Universe (especially the hell that is the X-Wing capers, Thrawn’s story or the Bounty Hunter nonsense, miss me with all that), but then I also enjoy Wuxia/Samurai films and courtly literature and dramas about spirituality conflicts and moral wars so perhaps I’m the niche target audience for that kind of story. I think the premise of the Jedi - an order of Warrior Monks fading into obsolescence but still trying to pull political strings for shaky ethical purposes - can make for excellent drama. It just hasn’t been adapted well by Lucas or anyone else so far...

What the subset of fans like me would really pop for is a cinematic version of some of the earliest books in the novels timeline (not all of them canon, no I will not apologise) that deal with Jedi origins - the way many of the later books such as DARK DISCIPLE have been adapted into episodes/seasons of CLONE WARS. It would probably only be me losing my shit to see DAWN OF THE JEDI, the KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC series, LOST TRIBE OF THE SITH, RED HARVEST, DARTH PLAGUEIS (such a badass character, my Gods do I love him), CLOAK OF DECEPTION or MASTER & APPRENTICE as solo spinoff movies or 3-part miniseries, but lose my shit I would. Even the handful of books about Darth Bane & Darth Maul (go with me here, he’s better in the books) would make me pop.

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by Anonymousreply 106May 16, 2020 1:26 AM

I’m a an avid Trekie

by Anonymousreply 107May 16, 2020 2:12 AM

What a shit scene r101. They act like she wasn't the Queen like a couple of years ago. They serve their own food? She didn't mention how he helped during the invasion? The dialogue and pacing was cringe. I like the idea of a back story, but this was terrible.

by Anonymousreply 108May 16, 2020 2:21 AM

I loved the political scenes from r102. I was also sad to see them cut after they were released on the DVD.

by Anonymousreply 109May 16, 2020 2:25 AM

R109 they were in the theatrical release?

by Anonymousreply 110May 16, 2020 2:32 AM

I thought the Unpopular movie Opinion on DL was Bedknobs & Broomsticks is better than Mary Poopins

by Anonymousreply 111May 16, 2020 2:38 AM

I never liked Mary Poppins.

by Anonymousreply 112May 16, 2020 2:39 AM

Oscar Isaac is fine, but SEXY? That is pushing it.

by Anonymousreply 113May 16, 2020 2:40 AM

No, we didn't find out about them untii the DBD came out t110. I thought they would have added a bit more weight to the story.

by Anonymousreply 114May 16, 2020 5:35 AM

Nope, I'm sorry you're dead wrong.

Those prequel movies were three of the dullest, most deadly shitty movies I've ever seen! How they didn't kill off the franchise is a fucking miracle!

by Anonymousreply 115May 16, 2020 5:41 AM

Is the only reason why Finn was kidnapped because the original clone with daddy voice aged out of the role? Why wouldn't the empire just have more clones made?

Also regardless of him being black--why is he so juvenile and hairless? Why wouldn't they cast someone hotter?

by Anonymousreply 116May 16, 2020 5:49 AM

They didn’t cast for looks.

by Anonymousreply 117May 16, 2020 5:57 AM

I'm sorry but Daisy Ridley is a SHIT actress. I saw her in Murder On the Orient Express and it was like she was reading her lines phonetically she was so awful.

by Anonymousreply 118May 16, 2020 6:01 AM

Adam Driver doesn't have the right kind of voice for the character he played.

by Anonymousreply 119May 16, 2020 6:27 AM

That Anakin/Obi Wan battle at the end of ‘Revenge of the Sith’ made all of the prequel messiness that came before it totally worth it for me.

That one giant lava burst as they lock hands while teetering on the steaming pipes? Fuck yes. The waaaaaay over-the-top Williams score? Fuck yes.

The way the once-beautiful Anakin growls, “I hate you” after he’s been horrifically dismembered, and Obi Wan responds, “You were my brother!”... It all gets me every damn time. It paid off.

BTW, I agree that Lucas should’ve gone with his original plan and started the prequels with a slightly older Anakin.

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by Anonymousreply 120May 16, 2020 7:25 AM

That was an epic battle scene.

I wonder if people still write Anakin/Obi Wan fan fiction 🤔🤔

by Anonymousreply 121May 16, 2020 7:37 AM

R121 fanfic is more popular these days (especially slash) so I'll bet there's plenty for Anakin and Obi Wan.

by Anonymousreply 122May 16, 2020 7:56 AM

[quote]What a shit scene R101. They act like she wasn't the Queen like a couple of years ago. They serve their own food? She didn't mention how he helped during the invasion? The dialogue and pacing was cringe. I like the idea of a back story, but this was terrible.

R108, these scenes were cut together. Obviously, they weren't intended to be presented in one piece like this.

Monarchs in Naboo are elected heads of state. There is no real royalty, 'Royal House of Naboo' is just how they call their government. Why shouldn't they serve their own food? They are an upper class family, her father is the son of cloth weavers who worked himself up to become a professor, her mother is a house wife.

by Anonymousreply 123May 16, 2020 11:17 AM

R121/R122 the Jedi & Sith are characters ripe for Slashfic. I mean, all-male religious factions of political dissidents who at an early age are segregated from civilisation and forbidden to couple (I.e. LTR, marry or reproduce) heterosexually)?...come on, now.

I used to enjoy many an excellent SW fic back in the day, though my preferred pairings were Qui/Obi (otp, obviously), Lorian/Dooku (😭😭😭), Maul/Savage (mmm,angsty Sithcest) & Feemor/Xanatos (aka just gay Padawans being bros). The SW fic community is also renowned for having some of the best Gen/platonic stories around, presumably because of the celibate nature of the Jedi and the chaste nature of the canon: in this genre I recommend fics exploring the direct Jedi Master-Padawan lineage from Yoda down to Ahsoka — so, Yoda-Dooku-Qui-Gon (though technically he was never given the Master rank through some hot bullshit)-Feenor/Xanatos-Obi-Wan-Anakin-Ahsoka.

There’s still some old ‘00s archives up and live with plenty of well-written material, for those who care to look. Unfortunately though, the fascists at the House of Mouse are implementing Terms of Service across popular fic platforms like AO3 and ff.net banning people from using copyrighted SW characters, so those that want will have to get out the shovels and do some search engine digging in defunct Livejournals, webrings, Angelfire and such.

by Anonymousreply 124May 16, 2020 3:46 PM

I'm not a slash fiction person, but years ago I stumbled upon a graphic slash story involving Luke and Han and it was HOT.

by Anonymousreply 125May 16, 2020 3:52 PM

When I was a kid, I used to undress my 12” Luke and Han dolls and make them kiss.

by Anonymousreply 126May 16, 2020 4:02 PM

[quote]Is the only reason why Finn was kidnapped because the original clone with daddy voice aged out of the role? Why wouldn't the empire just have more clones made?

No, if you count all the other source materials to provide answers.

Apparently, they stopped making clones on Kamino at the end of the Clone Wars when the Empire was established.

According to the backstory, Finn and other kids (including the girl in Rise of Skywalker they find on the moon with the crashed Death Star II - who turns out to be Lando's kidnapped daughter) were kidnapped by the First Order to fill their ranks since they didn't have the imperial infrastructure for recruitment.

To me, the First Order was always ill-conceived. It would not be unrealistic to think that remnants of the Empire would still exist in pockets - it was a huge galaxy spanning organization with thousands of ships, generals, and troops. Of course, power hungry generals, warlords, imperial governors (like Tarkin) would continue to fight to hold power, even as a nascent New Republic struggled to consolidate power. There would also have been a HUGE number of systems that became independent and decided not to join the New Republic.

The political power structure would have been closer to a small and fragile "New Republic" and a "commonwealth of independent systems" against which the New Republic would compete for members with a fragmented group of former Imperial systems with various generals and governors fighting for control. Snoke should have been a "dark and sinister" new governor who came out of nowhere and was quickly consolidating former Imperial systems fleets under his control, posing a threat to both the independent systems and New Republic.

by Anonymousreply 127May 16, 2020 4:19 PM

So I just watched Episode 8 and 9. They were pretty good but, its just not George Lucas' Star Wars of course, where he takes a long time to tell a story. These are action movies with stuff blowing up every 5 minutes.

I liked Laura Dern's character in episode 8. Oscar Isaac's scenes with Carrie Fisher were good.

I know he's a weirdo and people will probably disagree, but for me Adam Driver was the best part of these last three movies. The Jedi father/son thing might be getting old, but he did an outstanding job with the material IMO, essentially being a confused man-child. The mind talk/ mind fuck scenes with Rey were awesome.

This is my favorite scene from both movies. How come the Jedi can't get some badass force lightening?

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by Anonymousreply 128May 16, 2020 4:46 PM

[quote]How come the Jedi can't get some badass force lightening?

It is explicitly a dark side sith force power.

While it's meant to foreshadow her lineage as Palpatine's granddaughter, this creates big problems for the Rey character. It's not a religious fervor to adhere to canon, so much as fantasy worlds only make sense when they operate with rules and are internally consistent. The more inconsistencies that exist, the more difficult it is to maintain immersion in that world. Also, when various "rules" are ignored or broken, the story inevitably becomes a series of Perils of Pauline.

by Anonymousreply 129May 16, 2020 5:50 PM

Ugh, I just can’t with Luke/Han.

Maybe it’s because I was fairly young when I saw them first and I just can’t see them in that adult way.

Same goes for Kirk/Spock and Mulder/Skinner.

by Anonymousreply 130May 16, 2020 6:02 PM

I never wanted have sex with Luke or Han. I wanted them as my best friends and loyal pals - the friends who would risk their lives to save you and you them.

I wanted Christopher Reeve's Superman. God, he was handsome.

by Anonymousreply 131May 16, 2020 6:21 PM

Mark Hamill started my fetish for boyish-looking blonds.

by Anonymousreply 132May 16, 2020 6:22 PM

As far as popular fan assessments of films like 'Star Wars,' I just can't, anymore. What has changed is the absolute, narcissistic sense of entitlement, the idea that the films exist to service fandom. It started creeping in during the three-year intervals between the films in the Original Trilogy, where Fox Studios began employing test audiences and post-film questionnaires. The infamous 'Holiday Special' was intended as a test of consumer tastes. Another form of input was toy sales. Making inquiries of popular fandom is the absolution [italic]worst[/italic] idea in my opinion, since it only produces mediocrity. The interval between 'Empire' and 'Jedi' saw the direct input of fan organizations and focus groups. IMO, 'Return of the Jedi' was the worst of any of the first six films.

The sixteen years separating 'Jedi' from 'Phantom Menace' only saw the entitlement of fandom grow, so that Episode One opened to a spoiled, toxic bunch of ungrateful people. The worst part of it is that Lucasfilm sought to placate them for subsequent films, which only made the problem worse.

The Sequel Trilogy are the result of that trend. They're the most hated (I myself prefer to pretend that they don't exist, or are not an actual part of 'Star Wars') but, ironically, they are the films that fan input created, the films that fans deserve. They suck because 'Star Wars' fandom sucks.

Now that Disney holds the reins, they need to stop listening to fandom and create some original, quality content. To the teller belongs the story, not to the listener. Let subsequent entries in 'Star Wars' be what they are, hopefully the vision of someone imaginative, and if fans don't like it, they can go fuck themselves. Nobody's forcing them to patronize the franchise. Make their own goddamned films if they don't like these.

by Anonymousreply 133May 16, 2020 6:44 PM

I agree with above posters that they should have just done original stories within the universe. They should have never done prequels. They should have moved on from trying to explain the rise of the Emperor and how Anakin became Darth Vader. The new movies were ok. The Force Awakens was an obvious retread of A New Hope, but at least it brought back Han and Leia. Harrison Ford was the best thing about that sequel. The Last Jedi kind of ruined Luke, the hero of the original. George Lucas created this universe (and fucked it up in the prequels, but still), and when he was asked who was the greatest Jedi ever, he said Luke Skywalker. The sequels didn't follow that at all. Then the Rise of Skywalker brought back the Emperor, which as above posters note shows JJ Abrams can't seem to do anything original.

The other thing about the sequels is that it shit all over the originals. Within a few years of defeating the Empire it's back? The Emperor was defeated but he's back? Ok. So the triumphant feeling of the first ending only lasted a short time then back to the baddies in control? It was a bad storyline. They should have written it farther in the future with all new characters who are the descendants of the originals, like Luke's great-grandchildren and Han and Leia's great-grandchildren. It could still be a Skywalker saga.

The Mandalorian is a really good show set in the SW universe a few years after Return of the Jedi. It shows that an original storyline set in the universe with new characters and myths can succeed. I'd rather see several new TV series set in this universe of The Mandalorian's quality than a bunch of shit movies. TV lets you really tell the story better rather than being constrained by a 2 1/2 hour movie length.

by Anonymousreply 134May 16, 2020 7:05 PM

100% agree r133. Stop pandering to the Aspie fans and all their bullshit and just tell good stories.

by Anonymousreply 135May 16, 2020 7:05 PM

[quote]The other thing about the sequels is that it shit all over the originals. Within a few years of defeating the Empire it's back? The Emperor was defeated but he's back? Ok. So the triumphant feeling of the first ending only lasted a short time then back to the baddies in control? It was a bad storyline.

Bringing back the Emperor was so fucking lazy and pointless. We saw him plummet down a shaft and disintegrate at the end of ROTJ but somehow he miraculously survived that? And it really shit on the whole point of the first trilogy, I agree. Luke defeated the Empire and Vader was redeemed, which was what everything was leading up to. The main storyline of the whole damn franchise was pissed on by bringing the Emperor back.

by Anonymousreply 136May 16, 2020 7:09 PM

R136, they later tried to explain it in the novelization and it kinda resembles the old Legends canon post-RotJ, but it was still executed in a stupid way.

So, the idea is that Palpatine did die on the 2nd Death Star, but the blue light coming up the shaft was his essence transferring itself to a clone body on Exegol. The idea is that it's hard to clone Force users, so it requires preparation, a lot of trial and error, Sith alchemy, and whatnot. Anyway, the clone body could not cope with the full power of the Emperor's essence, so the transfer was not complete. The clone body started to decay and had to be kept on life support. 30 years later, the clone has aged naturally and looks like a zombie Palpatine. When he sucks out the life out of Rey and Ben at the end, he completes the soul transfer, heals his body, and becomes the full Emperor again; that's why he starts to look all wrinkled up again. The 'scarred' look is actually his true form, an expression of his evilness.

Rey's dad was not Palpatine's natural son, he was a genetically altered clone body that showed no Force abilities and was 'set free' because Sidious hoped that he might produce Force-sensitive offspring.

by Anonymousreply 137May 16, 2020 7:33 PM

[quote]Now that Disney holds the reins, they need to stop listening to fandom and create some original, quality content. To the teller belongs the story, not to the listener. Let subsequent entries in 'Star Wars' be what they are, hopefully the vision of someone imaginative, and if fans don't like it, they can go fuck themselves.

I concur with this if you are including BOTH the neckbeard idiots AND the diversity idiots. Pandering to people screaming for women or minorities and not just "white people" is no better and will create as bad films.

The so-called "nu-fans" are just as bad as the idiots crying about how they've "ruined their childhoods" with these movies. I condole those idiots for their terrible childhoods if a sequel to a movie, no matter how bad it was, could ruin it.

A good story, well-told. That's not much to ask for. Yet, it really is a lot to ask for.

by Anonymousreply 138May 16, 2020 7:36 PM

R138 GET THE FUCK OVER IT. THE FUTURE WOULD NOT LOOK SO WHITE.

by Anonymousreply 139May 16, 2020 7:38 PM

[quote]I concur with this if you are including BOTH the neckbeard idiots AND the diversity idiots.

I've never encountered these "diversity idiots" of which you speak. Instead, it always seems to be the case that trailers or other advance press materials emerge, and there's evidently going to be black or female characters, and 4chan is triggered and starts screaming. Then the Russians amplify it, and it takes off exponentially.

The whole scenario of people hectoring a film, claiming it needs more diversity - this I've never seen.

by Anonymousreply 140May 16, 2020 7:48 PM

[quote]The Last Jedi kind of ruined Luke, the hero of the original. George Lucas created this universe (and fucked it up in the prequels, but still), and when he was asked who was the greatest Jedi ever, he said Luke Skywalker.

Well I for one got tired of the angle that Luke Skywalker was the Jesus of Star Wars. TLJ humanized Luke into a realistic and more relatable character. It was more feasible to me that Luke would turn into an old jaded man after all the issues and downfalls he faced in his life, but would finally come around for one last good deed.

by Anonymousreply 141May 16, 2020 7:51 PM

[quote]I never wanted have sex with Luke or Han.

Well as a kid when I first saw these movies I didn't. But if I saw them for the first time today you couldn't tell me that Luke didn't give Han some twink bussy to get off Tatooine!

by Anonymousreply 142May 16, 2020 7:57 PM

R140, I have encountered segments of the SW fandom that do complain about a lack of diversity (e.g., the 'Diversity Manifesto' thread on TheForce.net), but from what I saw, they were never toxic in the least. So, I guess you are mostly right with regard to the SW fandom.

There seem to be more toxic strands in other fields/fandoms (e.g., YA fiction) that can be pretty annoying. In one of my geeky hobbies, I've noticed a growing number of radical transwomen and their loyal 'cis' white knights; like always, they make everything about the trans, while LGB are mostly dismissed (unless it's about the only real lesbians--transwomen lesbians--that is).

by Anonymousreply 143May 16, 2020 8:05 PM

R141 = Rian Johnson

by Anonymousreply 144May 16, 2020 8:05 PM

[quote]I've noticed a growing number of radical transwomen and their loyal 'cis' white knights

R143, you only encounter them online, right? Not on the ground, in person?

by Anonymousreply 145May 16, 2020 8:11 PM

R145, only online, yes. Most transwomen that I encounter live are very normal and nice.

by Anonymousreply 146May 16, 2020 8:18 PM

yall diversity trans advocates and enemies alike need to stop derailing the thread.

by Anonymousreply 147May 16, 2020 8:20 PM

R146, then there's no hard proof they're the real thing, rather than imposters staged by troll farms. These days, that's where most of the extremity comes from.

And unfortunately, the imposters always manage to carry off a few actual Americans who buy into their bullshit, like the 2016 Bernie supporters who were persuaded by trolls to either stay home, or vote for Jill Stein. There's always a few. But the majority of it is fake, astroturfed.

But your real-life experience tells you that most trans are reasonable people.

by Anonymousreply 148May 16, 2020 8:34 PM

[quote][R138] GET THE FUCK OVER IT. THE FUTURE WOULD NOT LOOK SO WHITE.

LOL - So typical. What you want is for them to listen to people you agree with.

I don't want them pandering to any fandom - male, female, white, diverse, or otherwise.

By the way..."A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."

If the FUTURE would not look so white...does that mean the long ago past would be even whiter?

by Anonymousreply 149May 16, 2020 8:46 PM

Oh, they're definitely real, R148. I agree that a lot of the issues are mainly online, where it's easier to create echo chambers. Anyway, let's not derail this thread with trans issues.

by Anonymousreply 150May 16, 2020 8:55 PM

[quote]I have encountered segments of the SW fandom that do complain about a lack of diversity (e.g., the 'Diversity Manifesto' thread on TheForce.net), but from what I saw, they were never toxic in the least. So, I guess you are mostly right with regard to the SW fandom.

A good example of that group can be seen in the reaction to the end of Rise of Skywalker and the screaming that went on over how they destroyed Rey's character (such as it was) over a man. Not to mention the deranged Reylo people...but those are in a wholly separate category of crazy.

Both sides of that fandom should be ignored in favor of better stories - like they've done with The Mandalorian. Another example can be seen in the echo chamber around the criticism about how long it took for a woman to show up - it got ugly on both sides. While I think Anita Sarkeesian's criticism was absurd, she didn't deserve the vitriol from the neckbeards that was aimed at her. If you're going to go after a criticism, go after the substance of the criticism. Frankly, the neckbeards only proved her point, rather than discrediting it - no matter how much they think they "owned" her.

Filoni has a much better handle on Star Wars than Abrams (or Johnson) ever had.

by Anonymousreply 151May 16, 2020 9:08 PM

[quote]Oh, they're definitely real, [R148]. I agree that a lot of the issues are mainly online, where it's easier to create echo chambers. Anyway, let's not derail this thread with trans issues.

As you please, R150. I'll just leave this here and move on.

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by Anonymousreply 152May 16, 2020 9:13 PM

The problem with the prequels is that Lucas thought he could it all, and he couldn't.

He had a lot of good collaborators on the original three movies. From Gloria Katz and Willard Hyuck who helped create the final draft of A New Hope, to Marcia Lucas' first rate editing to Irvin Kershner, who really made Empire the dramatic tour de force that it was. Brian De Palma helped write the scrawling intro to A New Hope.

The prequels suffered in part, from that lack of strong input.

by Anonymousreply 153May 16, 2020 9:40 PM

Ironic r153, because the sequels suffer from too many cooks.

by Anonymousreply 154May 16, 2020 9:57 PM

Spielberg supposedly storyboarded the Yoda v. Palpatine fight in Revenge Of The Sith.

by Anonymousreply 155May 16, 2020 10:10 PM

[quote]Spielberg supposedly storyboarded the Yoda v. Palpatine fight in Revenge Of The Sith.

I found that fight much better choreographed and better paced than the one against Dooku at the end of Clones.

by Anonymousreply 156May 16, 2020 10:13 PM

Anybody want some Jar Jar porn?

Straight:

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by Anonymousreply 157May 16, 2020 10:51 PM

Gay:

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by Anonymousreply 158May 16, 2020 10:51 PM

Jesus. One black character and someone how it was some way to appease fans.

That is the biggest lie I’ve ever seen. Only a racist would think this.

by Anonymousreply 159May 16, 2020 11:10 PM

I love Hayden. God Bless Him.

THIS is why he was cast. Look at him. Anakin is gorgeous, and then he isn’t because of Obi Wan.

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by Anonymousreply 160May 16, 2020 11:10 PM

Their ability to make Hayden so unsexy and unappealing was the real movie magic.

by Anonymousreply 161May 16, 2020 11:32 PM

[Quote] so those that want will have to get out the shovels and do some search engine digging in defunct Livejournals, webrings, Angelfire and such.

Angelfire??

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by Anonymousreply 162May 16, 2020 11:35 PM

Imagine thinking ONE black person vs ONE HUNDRED white people is to appease fandoms.

Was that why Lando was black 40 years ago?

by Anonymousreply 163May 17, 2020 12:01 AM

[quote]Was that why Lando was black 40 years ago?

I overheard that said a couple of times back then (I live among racists), but back then there wasn't an internet echo chamber to propagate it out of all proportion.

by Anonymousreply 164May 17, 2020 12:34 AM

Yes. Just like Star Trek had a diverse cast. Why? Because they had hope and faith the future would be equal for ALL.

And because you heard racists bitching means it’s true or ok? Lmaoooo get a grip.

by Anonymousreply 165May 17, 2020 12:37 AM

Who are you addressing, R165?

by Anonymousreply 166May 17, 2020 12:41 AM

Damn he was hot r160.

People need to lighten up on Natalie and Hayden. Natalie was cast in 1997, over 20 years ago, to play Padme. Her acting skills weren't what they are today. She was a kid getting this epic role, plus the material wasn't great.

Are we really debating why Lando was black? The Empire Strikes Back will be 40 years old next week! FORTY. Racial inclusion in movies wasn't at the top of people's minds 40 years ago. Billy Dee is a smooth operator, so he fit the character. That's why he got the part.

by Anonymousreply 167May 17, 2020 1:40 AM

R167 I know that, but the racists can’t get that. 100 White people cast and 1 black person and they still will bitch. They wanna act like black people just don’t exist.

Portman was 15 when cast for the role. She was very young.

by Anonymousreply 168May 17, 2020 1:43 AM

No

The Force Awakens >>>>> Episode I, II, and III

by Anonymousreply 169May 17, 2020 1:52 AM

[quote]Racial inclusion in movies wasn't at the top of people's minds 40 years ago.

Depends on where you lived. In the middle to late 1970s, doctrinaire racists were bitching about blacks in everything and over everything. It was the era of desegregation and busing. Alex Haley's 'Roots' had just captivated television; there were many black sitcoms - 'Sanford and Son,' 'Good Times,' 'The Jeffersons,' 'What's Happening!!'. Blacks were appearing in commercials. Racists bitterly bitched and complained about it as though it were a planned assault.

So yes, the appearance of Lando Calrissian was regarded as tokenism in some circles.

Racism wasn't invented three years ago at Charlottesville, you know.

by Anonymousreply 170May 17, 2020 2:03 AM

People have been clamoring for Rosario Dawson to play Ahsoka Tano for years.

She's by far the first choice among fans. People went nuts with joy when the rumors started flying that it was a done deal for Season 2 of The Mandalorian.

by Anonymousreply 171May 17, 2020 2:14 AM

Yes, she's ideal, R171. I think that the future of the Star Wars franchise lies with characters like Ahsoka Tano and the Mandalorian. I'm also hoping for the return of Ezra Bridger.

The 4chan/Trumpsters/Russian trolls don't seem to have noticed 'The Mandalorian' yet. But you can bet they will once more episodes start coming out. They're seriously dedicated to hating on female characters and the actors who play them.

by Anonymousreply 172May 17, 2020 2:28 AM

Um, they've already finished airing the entire first season of The Mandalorian...

I'm less excited about Ezra Bridger. I feel like he became a Marty Stu. I'd love to see what became of The Ghost crew - you'd think that Sabine would show up on Mandalorian at some point.

The problem with Ahsoka is that we know that by the time of Rise of Skywalker that she's dead...she's one of the voices encouraging Rey at the end. It's not a huge problem, but it still creates a line in the sand for what they can do with her.

by Anonymousreply 173May 17, 2020 2:51 AM

R161 yes, at the very least we have to give Jorge points for consistency with Anakin’s characterisation.

In spite of a tragic backstory, Ani remains almost totally unsympathetic. He somehow comes through trials from boy to man without improving or addressing a single one of his countless ugly personality traits, and this miserable complex is only compounded by his later adoption of Reich-wing factional politics and psychoses.

He’s just a fundamentally creepy, repressed, developmentally-stunted little troll and no amount of Jedi training could make something of such a person. My love for Qui-Gon is deep and rich, but even I have to admit he truly was the real Phantom Menace going out of his way to raise that nasty little Cain up.

Ani would likely have been happier and safer and better off left alone after liberation, maybe moving planet with his Mom to work somewhere else in obscurity (making himself useful at a mechanic shop or a racetrack for the rest of his life, perhaps). Either that or Yoda should have shipped him off to the Agricorps the minute Qui brought him back the Temple (did we learn nothing after the Xanatos debacle?)

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by Anonymousreply 174May 17, 2020 11:00 PM

[quote]Um, they've already finished airing the entire first season of The Mandalorian...

[as dryly as possible] I'm aware, R173. Once the new season starts, and Ahsoka Tano appears, you can expect the 4chan/Trumpsters/Russian trolls to completely lose their shit and start trying to sink the series.

[quote]The problem with Ahsoka is that we know that by the time of Rise of Skywalker that she's dead...she's one of the voices encouraging Rey at the end.

It would appear that the 'Star Wars' writers do not intend to hold with that.

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by Anonymousreply 175May 17, 2020 11:15 PM

[quote] Spielberg supposedly storyboarded the Yoda v. Palpatine fight in Revenge Of The Sith. I found that fight much better choreographed and better paced than the one against Dooku at the end of Clones.

R156 this is just a theory, but I believe in some clunky basic way that the AotC fight scenes with Dooku were all meant merely to tell us about the skill level vs. mindset of each player in the game. For example, Anakin’s overconfidence and hot temper imperil him and others around him as evidenced by the flippant way the Count deals with him. On the other side, Dooku shows his weakness as arrogance and misplaced bitterness which put him at the mercy of a placid and grimly resigned Yoda.

These fights weren’t well-executed, but I think it’s possible to see the marks they were going for and so widely missed.

by Anonymousreply 176May 17, 2020 11:24 PM

Garrett Clayton as Ezra Bridger! He’ll be Jedi Fabulous!

by Anonymousreply 177May 17, 2020 11:29 PM

Too white, R177.

I liked the idea of Luke Paqualino in the role.

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by Anonymousreply 178May 17, 2020 11:33 PM

[quote] Disney sucks. Idk why they’re allowed to buy everything.

We all know why.

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by Anonymousreply 179May 18, 2020 1:22 PM

The scene where Anakin walks in and you know he murdered all those children always upset me.

by Anonymousreply 180May 19, 2020 10:39 PM

There was an article (I think last year) that compared Lucas' original draft/plans for the prequels to the finished films. Many of the issues came from his revisions. Originally Obi-Wan was more central to Ep I, Anakin was slightly older, etc.

Attack of the Clones is the weakest of the three. The last hour or so is all green screen, and the love story is weak.

I love Revenge of the Sith for the super-dark second half and make no apologies.

I'm glad that Hayden is ok with his place in the Star Wars legacy now.

Rogue One and Solo > the sequels. John Boyega is bland as fuck, Daisy Ridley is ok. Only Oscar Isaac has real charisma. How there was no framework for the sequels is shocking to me. "Just wing the story! It'll work out!"

I'd kill for a Sony-style hacking of Disney emails.

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by Anonymousreply 181May 19, 2020 11:24 PM

R180 hmph, well, at least HE got a reaction.

by Anonymousreply 182May 20, 2020 12:09 AM

Damn, how old is Hayden? I just turned 50 and don't have wrinkles like that.

by Anonymousreply 183May 20, 2020 2:28 AM

Everyone ages differently. I don’t get the mentality that people age the same. There are many factors to how someone ages, mainly genetics.

by Anonymousreply 184May 20, 2020 2:30 AM

Rogue One is a fan favorite. Whoever directed it should do the next movies

by Anonymousreply 185May 20, 2020 5:17 AM

R181 that's a cute photo.

by Anonymousreply 186May 20, 2020 5:33 AM

I just found the sequel trilogy so dull. I didn't care about any of the new characters (apart from BB8, who was cute), and I didn't like what they did with the old ones. I'm not a hardcore fan, though.

The first two prequels are so dreadful that they're almost a work of art. The acting, the storytelling, the dialogue, the midi-chlorians, Jar Jar... it's all so hilariously awful. Revenge of the Sith certainly features an abundance of cringe, but it has some genuinely gripping moments as well.

by Anonymousreply 187May 20, 2020 1:00 PM

Rouge One was a damn good adventure with high stakes. I absolutely loved it as a casual Star Wars viewer. Of course the movie with the sexiest modern cast and characters that the audience can emotionally connect to have to get killed off. I think their death helped make the movie one of my favorites as well. You understood the why behind it and we’re proud of them.

by Anonymousreply 188May 20, 2020 1:28 PM

[quote] Whoever directed it should do the next movies

Ha! Whoever that might be, indeed. Who took over from Gareth Edwards? Was it Tony Gilroy? Try watching the movie and then going back and watching the trailers. It’s jaw-dropping how unrelated they are. That the movie turned out as well as it did is kind of a miracle.

by Anonymousreply 189May 20, 2020 3:46 PM

I loved Rogue One, it was a great adventure story. I would still like to see the original version, though.

Glad to see some love for Revenge Of the Sith, it was a very good film, that is underrated because of the first two prequels. The first two were so awful and disliked, ROTS didn't get its proper due.

by Anonymousreply 190May 20, 2020 4:00 PM

R190 Sith definitely has its flaws (Padme’s stupid ass death, that “NOOOOOO!”, etc) but it's so unrelentingly dark, I cant help but enjoy it.

R186 It's Hayden and his daughter at the Star Wars park

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by Anonymousreply 191May 20, 2020 4:27 PM

It would have made roughly a thousand times more sense for Padmé to have died because her husband force-choked her rather than because she was a bit sad.

by Anonymousreply 192May 20, 2020 8:24 PM

Happy birthday Sith

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by Anonymousreply 193May 23, 2020 10:41 PM

R192, the ending makes the most sense if you assume that Vader is subconsciously using the dark side of the Force and his personal connection to leech off her life energy in order to keep himself alive. The 'she lost the will to live' explanation is just how the droid rationalizes weird Force stuff.

by Anonymousreply 194May 23, 2020 10:56 PM

TPM breakdown:

Pros - John Williams’ greatest score (though the CD getting released before the movie spoiled the plot lmao) Ewan’s dreamy Alec Guinness impersonation Practical effects, models & puppets blended with CGI (I.e. Theed, Yoda, the podrace vehicles & contestants) A then-unknown Richard Armitage playing a Naboo fighter-pilot hotly The symmetry of Padmé inadvertently starting the Separatist movement as her daughter does the Rebellion Palpy’s flawless yet convoluted Evil that is so smart it takes dozen rewatches to figure out its sick brilliance The Jedi Council rooms with their comfy ergonomic egg-chairs Liam Neeson & Samuel L. Jackson as a hot fit Daddy Jedi in their prime (an unseen phenomenon up to this point in the canon) YSL Amidala Red lipstick (gorgeous shade sadly long-discontinued)

Cons - Lucas having no co-writers ...resulting in exposition that is hamfisted, moralising, dry and filibustering to the point he may as well have used intertitles and made a silent movie Jarring moments of Jerry Lewis style comedy Samurai/Knight/Templar protags who somehow do not seem to fuck on the reg (nb. Ani proves that not fucking regularly or without crippling guilt=path to the Dark Side) Taoism/Zen Buddhist underpinning unravelling into nihilism because there is no proper interrogation of the Code in plot (imo the Prophecy should read ‘harmony’ in place of ‘balance’) The Force not even working on a backwater civilian lifeform Burgeoning romance between a pre-pubescent boy and a mid/late teenage woman Captain Obvious Olié Handwaved slavery Most of tie-in literature especially the kids’ book ‘Learn Letter Sounds with Sebulba’ (the gross low-tier villain character who cannot speak Basic and dies in Act II of Episode I anyway?), though the YA novels taking place before Episode I were decent tbh

YMMV - Force Sensitivity shown to be an archaic dangerous idea that is discredited in the vein of the Humours A big racing scene where 90% of the racers are guaranteed to die in horrifying fiery explosions E.T. character cameo in the Senate scenes which works as a funny fuck-you to Spielberg but also shatters Universe cohesion

by Anonymousreply 195May 23, 2020 11:27 PM

So anyways do we think Neeson slipped his horsedick to 20-something Ewan when they were both exhausted and tense after a long day of greenscreen? Or was Liam still strictly into pussy back in 1998?

by Anonymousreply 196May 23, 2020 11:29 PM

At age 8 I craved the entire gorgeously chic collection of YSL Amidala cosmetics. Suffice to say as I was not a spoiled princess I did not get it for Christmas.

The CoverGirl line released for TFA looks tacky by comparison. For some reason they thought it would be cute to package the makeup like vintage SW toys, which is definitely what female consumers want🙄

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by Anonymousreply 197May 24, 2020 12:15 AM

[quote]It would have made roughly a thousand times more sense for Padmé to have died because her husband force-choked her rather than because she was a bit sad.

It would have made roughly a thousand times more sense going into (as it were) ANH if Padme had come to reveal she was pregnant, but in his state of mind, he accuses her of having an affair with Obi Wan and attacks her in a jealous rage, then blames Obi Wan for everything, including kill her.

by Anonymousreply 198May 24, 2020 12:37 AM

An excellent review of the massive editing that Star Wars underwent in 1977, a major reason for the movie's success.

Marcia Lucas rearranged the scenes and important action sequences in a way that kept the story suspenseful and exciting. Steven Spielberg and Brian De Palma also helped to reel in George Lucas's habit of including unnecessary details. Unfortunately, I guess Lucas didn't have people around him like this during the second trilogy.

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by Anonymousreply 199May 24, 2020 6:02 AM

That's a great video, r199. I wasn't aware of how much was changed in the editing process. It's easy to see how Lucas unreined made such bloated, boring prequels.

by Anonymousreply 200May 24, 2020 7:13 AM

A longish article that points out that Lucas' ideas for Phantom Menace were better than his final script. He fucked himself in revisions.

Highlight: While we have no actual first-hand copies of any of the early prequel scripts, in the case of Episode I we have a detailed summary of the revised rough draft. This comes courtesy of the 1999 CD-ROM The Episode I Insiders Guide--one of its features was a copy of the final script with annotations about how the rough draft differed. The script was not known as Phantom Menace but was titled The Beginning. Qui Gon did not enter the film until the Coruscant section and so it is mainly the story of Obi Wan Kenobi, an older, full Jedi Knight, who uncovers the invasion of Utapau (Naboo in the film), rescues the queen, lands on Tatooine and recruits a young boy named Anakin Skywalker to become a Jedi. The tone is more mature, and in fact Jar Jar is a more realistic character who speaks normally and is not so over-the-top. In many ways, it is actually superior to the final script. Look out for Darth Maul as well, who is quite vocal in this version.

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by Anonymousreply 201May 24, 2020 8:25 AM

So Count Dooku: forms the Trade Federation as a way to create a stronger economic ethic galaxy-wide and enable an emergent middle-lower class to build a better standard of living, thereby fostering culture and perpetuating peace; acts as neutral mediator between bickering venal Senate politicians for YEARS, and many times attempts to put a stop their racist imperialistic moribund fuckery about policies re. the Outer Rim; initiated the compilation and construction of the Jedi library from scratch, and gave instruction in languages (his native tongue of Serenno) and martial arts practises & styles (Makashi) that the Order were otherwise allowing to die out; offered intel to Obi-Wan during the Clone Wars that would have given the Jedi a strong to chance to literally destroy the Sith AND thwart Palapatine at the same time, because he never fully turned to the Dark Side (notice his eyes never change color); and refused to ever give up his noble material comforts on joining the Jedi, often retiring to his cliffside Castle or making a habit of swirling around the temple clad in fine velvet and leather and silver because fuck this burlap-sack monkish-austerity cosplay bullshit.

True, he did try to have his sister whacked for almost ratting out his plans and also did the Jedi dirty by helping Palpatine in the first place, but ultimately his intention was to bring down Sidious & the Sith and the Republic as well as the heroes & Seperatists so there could be an end to corruption. He didn’t want power, only peace.

But👀👀he’s👀👀the villain??👀👀👀ok Sis🤷‍♀️

by Anonymousreply 202May 25, 2020 9:00 PM

r202, if ANY of that had been used as character development in the movies, it would have made Dooku a much more compelling villain and character overall.

Frankly, that story line would have made a better spine to the prequel trilogy with our finding out that Palpatine was the ultimate villain pulling all the strings, unbeknownst even to Dooku.

The best villains are always people who are heroes when they tell their own stories.

by Anonymousreply 203May 25, 2020 9:09 PM

Anything is better than the Disney trilogy.

by Anonymousreply 204May 25, 2020 9:15 PM

So when is the next series of movies going to start?

by Anonymousreply 205May 27, 2020 9:48 PM

Even before the lockdown, Disney had put a hold on most Star Wars, except for the Mandalorian. The lockdown just throws it further into the future.

At this point, they made the Taika Waititi announcement, but without dates. They've never actually cancelled the Rian Johnson trilogy they announced, but c'mon, after TLJ, I can't imagine that they'll go forward with it.

by Anonymousreply 206May 27, 2020 10:10 PM

The only two movies worth anything at all are Star Wars, and The Empire Strikes Back. Star Wars is still the best, because it's a complete movie, beginning, middle, and end.

All the rest, including Return of the Jedi, are rubbish.

by Anonymousreply 207May 27, 2020 10:24 PM

I like the Jabba the Hutt section of ROTJ but otherwise agree with you, r207.

Here's a little Star Wars love from Miss Coco Peru

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by Anonymousreply 208May 28, 2020 3:38 AM

R203 agree completely.

Imagine if Dooku, or Qui-Gon, or Feemor, or even the obvious popular and likely choice Obi-Wan had been the main character of Episodes I-III. What could have been.

Ani as the main character in the prequels is the lynchpin issue. Our Messianic hero is a traumatised precocious child who in adolescence turns to Neo-Nazism (more AMERICAN HISTORY X than SW...) which the narrative and characterisation condemns, yet the cinematography and moral structure tells us we’re supposed to back him until the final scenes. It’s conflicting, messy and somewhat nauseating to watch.

by Anonymousreply 209June 3, 2020 11:58 PM

When Feemor was 28, Xanatos was 26, Obi-Wan was 21, and Anakin was 15.

We were robbed of a Padawan Twink Squad movie.

by Anonymousreply 210June 4, 2020 1:47 PM

The Disney canon reboot also robbed us of the chance to ever see gay twink Padawan Ferus Olin on the big or small screen.

I bet, nowadays, he and Roan would be married officially...

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by Anonymousreply 211June 4, 2020 2:07 PM

^^^^I always wanted to see Ferus kick Anakin’s ass in a duel.

by Anonymousreply 212June 4, 2020 2:14 PM

Except that's not Hayden Christensen, R160. That's model Seth Kuhlmann (from the same photo session, see below).

People on Pinterest are notorious for being lazy and misidentifying celebrities. DL had a thread full of commenters who thought model Mark Allen Alvarez was a young Paul Newman, based on a misidentified photo (this time from Tumblr).

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by Anonymousreply 213June 4, 2020 7:07 PM

What the movies never went into is how Qui-Gon refused to become a Jedi Council Master not only because he disagreed with their ideology (like Dooku) and because he couldn’t get over the grief of losing Xanatos, but because Council Masters must not take or keep Padawans.

Qui was really out here loving his sons/apprentices/twink Harem so much that he refused the highest honour just so he could stay with him😢beautiful and gay.

by Anonymousreply 214June 9, 2020 10:58 AM

So dense....every scene just has so much going on...

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by Anonymousreply 215June 17, 2020 9:00 PM

Mark Hamill is having a virtual fund raiser for Biden.

At 500 bucks a ticket it’s a little, okay, a lot, expensive for me. 🤷🏻‍♀️☹️

by Anonymousreply 216June 17, 2020 11:58 PM

LOL The Critical Drinker is at it again!! LOL!!!!

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by Anonymousreply 217July 25, 2020 8:06 PM

....

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by Anonymousreply 218July 25, 2020 9:05 PM

Have folks seen the latest hoopla about Ray Park (played Darth Maul).

There's a huge twitter cancellation in process right now over whether he posted a revenge porn video of his wife blowing him.

But, believe it or not, it's actually gotten even uglier with all sorts of accusations flying. However, notably missing is a comment about the authenticity of the video itself.

by Anonymousreply 219July 26, 2020 10:04 PM

R219 noooooo don’t tell me that! Maul is my favourite in the extended canon.

His relationship with Savage in THE CLONE WARS is so beautiful, powerful and tragic. The homoromantic fraternal love they shared basically defied everything the Sith & Jedi brainwashed them into believing and forced them to obey; though they suffered abuse and trauma at the hands of their Masters and died painful wasteful deaths as Sith Lords, Maul & Oppress still held on to mutual equal love and respect and comradeship they built between them. They refused to follow the code of Master & Apprentice, and liberated themselves to become blood-brothers instead.

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by Anonymousreply 220July 28, 2020 12:35 PM

[quote][R219] noooooo don’t tell me that! Maul is my favourite in the extended canon.

The buzz right now is that plans to bring Maul into the live action universe are on hold and they may decide (or have to) to recast if they move forward.

by Anonymousreply 221July 28, 2020 12:58 PM

[quote] plans to bring Maul into the live action universe are on hold and they may decide (or have to) to recast

Truly this is a world without heroes.

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by Anonymousreply 222July 28, 2020 2:17 PM

I lose it at that TPM scene in the Senate, when Amidala is explaining what’s going on with the Naboo blockade and about to put forward her vote of no confidence in Valorum only to have a random blue alien man stand up and yell “ORDER!”.

There’s something very Brexit about the whole thing. It was prophesied, and we didn’t listen!

by Anonymousreply 223August 4, 2020 10:58 PM

Too true, r223. The politics of the prequels is surprisingly powerful and complex. Natalie Portman's famous line in RotS ("This is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause") is horrifically prophetic in this day and age. Every time I see clips from a Trump rally, I’m reminded of it.

by Anonymousreply 224August 4, 2020 11:07 PM

What's the big deal about the Darth Maul actor getting a blowjob in a leaked vid? Why is that even a thing these days?

by Anonymousreply 225August 4, 2020 11:28 PM

‘Duel of the Fates’ is inarguably the best piece of Star Wars music ever composed, and probably won’t be surpassed. Don’t come at me with your ‘Imperial March’ or ‘Leia’s Theme’ or ‘The Immolation’ or ‘The Millennium Falcon’ - you’re wrong, shut up, ‘Duel of the Fates’ is supreme. Even if you hated Episode I and rejoiced in Qui-Gon’a death (you fucking monster), there is no denying its power and resonance as a cue taken on its own merits. I even submit that it transformed the way soundtracks have been composed and performed since.

It was described once (in a source I cannot find or recall, sadly) as ‘an oratorio of the fight for the soul of an innocent’ (meaning Anakin), and I couldn’t agree more. It is all at once thrilling, haunting, seductive and chilling. You can actually hear the pulse and friction of the sinuous connection between Sith & Jedi within it, somehow. It’s so much more than a nerdlings ‘O Fortuna’.

The lyrics in particular are a stroke of genius, and it isn’t just my pagan bias saying that. Who would think to take an ancient Welsh battle-hymn, translate it multiple times (to English, then Celtic, then Greek, then Sanskrit), then give it to a modern male voice choir to sing inside Studio 1 at Abbey Road?

[quote] Under the tongue root, a fight most dread,/and another raging, behind in the head...

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by Anonymousreply 226August 4, 2020 11:30 PM

That is pretty fucking awesome, R226.

John Williams is a genius. He’s my favorite movie composer, ever.

So how many people believe that George is coming back?

by Anonymousreply 227August 5, 2020 2:12 AM

[quote]The politics of the prequels is surprisingly powerful and complex. Natalie Portman's famous line in RotS ("This is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause") is horrifically prophetic in this day and age.

Lucas had two extraordinary moments of prescience, the "thunderous applause" line and the election of Pope Benedict.

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by Anonymousreply 228August 5, 2020 2:58 AM

I maintain until my last breath that the prequel films were simply too aubversively gay for Disney - and the old guard of fanboys - to handle. The Ronin genre they are based on is already majorly homoerotic: add in the dramatic tension of sex-negative alt-Buddhism and plenty of physical peril and what have you got?

Qui-Gon & Obi’s relationship is purely for the Gays. They loved each other so much that there’s no doubt The Force reunited them in another life far in the future, maybe even a parallel version of our world. And now I’ve upset myself *cries blood*

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by Anonymousreply 229August 6, 2020 10:24 PM

The Yoda lineage is so beautiful😭😭😭

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by Anonymousreply 230August 16, 2020 10:30 PM

There seems to be a misconception that the prequels were worthwhile.

Here's Mr. Plinkett to set you straight.

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by Anonymousreply 231August 16, 2020 11:31 PM

R231 the prequels gave us new characters, introduction to the deep lore, and the visuals unseen at the time. The plot and the holes therein let down all the films as a chronology, big time, but it’s sweeping bitter fanboy revisionism to say that they had absolutely nothing to offer and that they can’t be enjoyed as a stand-alone set.

The Plinkett reviews are tongue-in-cheek, by the by. The character of Mr. Plinkett is written a slobbering delusional incel rapist, who while very witty and astute when discussing elements of filmmaking & storytelling has few other redeeming qualities. The reviews lampoon crazed derisive fans as much as Jorge and his movies.

by Anonymousreply 232August 17, 2020 12:31 PM

Rewatching EP I as I do paperwork.

RIP Padmé’s handmaiden, honestly. What a shitty deal for a teen girl who just wanted a summer job for which she could wear fantastic gowns.

by Anonymousreply 233August 18, 2020 2:08 PM

This one is going to pay for my next toyboy. Can’t hate.

by Anonymousreply 234August 20, 2020 12:54 PM

I thought Phantom Menace was pretty good and vastly underrated.

Attack of the Clones was non-stop action and delivered what I like in sci-fi action flicks. Ewan McGregor was at his most gorgeous. PS: I also heard he has a really big light saber.

by Anonymousreply 235August 20, 2020 1:12 PM

[quote] McGregor was at his most gorgeous. PS: I also heard he has a really big light saber.

Standard lightsaber blade lengths vary from thirty-two to thirty-seven inches.

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by Anonymousreply 236August 21, 2020 12:56 PM

[quote]Standard lightsaber blade lengths vary from thirty-two to thirty-seven inches.

But, that's internet inches, right?

by Anonymousreply 237August 21, 2020 7:50 PM

Had Sebulba won the fatal pod-race, he could unwittingly have prevented the reign of Vader and return of the Sith.

There was no way Maul was going to go to the lengths Anakin did under Palpatine.

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by Anonymousreply 238August 23, 2020 2:34 PM

You know, Jedi Masters & apprentices share quarters, and no-one ever talks about that.

Nor do we acknowledge that Qui-Gon being a renegade Living Force Jedi on the Gray path meant he likely did not eschew attachments emotional or physical...

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by Anonymousreply 239August 23, 2020 8:34 PM
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