ChartMater has updated best selling artists of all time list

Madonna is the only post 1980 act in the top 10...

Good for Madge for shattering the glass ceiling.

Amazes me that Madonna is ahead of the Stones in terms of sales. They had 20+ years on her, including some huge hits.

R3 Madonna has WAY more hits than them, especially worldwide, she was a hit making machine from 84-09

She even had more top 40 hits in the 90s than she did in the sainted 80s in the US

Billboard also named her the #1 selling singles act of the 2000s (her third decade!) in 2009 in the US

Janet #57. Just saying 🤣

Beyoncé #55 and Adele #46. Beyoncé has released more albums and came out way before Adele

Metallica rounds out the top 20? Interesting ......

I thought that Pink Floyd weren't huge commercial successes in their day, but I guess they've kept selling for the last fifty years.

[quote] Beyoncé #55 and Adele #46. Beyoncé has released more albums and came out way before Adele

Adele is white. Beyoncé is black. Of course Adele out sales the black women who influenced her.

[quote] Her mother is still her closest friend, and current roommate. Adele credits her with turning her on to Mary J. Blige, Lauryn Hill and Alicia Keys – she calls The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and Songs in A Minor “life-defining.” The other big influence was Etta James, whose music she discovered in the bargain bin of a record store.

R8 Dark Side of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Wall. According to some data DSOTM has spent around a so far a total of 950 weeks on the charts.

dat old sow janet Jackson in da 50's....heehee

Nirvana is my all time favorite band. But I never they'd be that high. They only had four albums.

R9 Beyonce makes shitty music and hasn’t had a hit in over a decade on her own.

I'm surprised Elvis ranked so high, considering how few good songs he had, how early his heyday was, and how much his reputatioI'm surprised Elvis ranked so high, considering how few good songs he had, how early his heyday was, and how much his reputation has suffered since the 1960s.n has suffered since the 1960s.

I'm surprised Elvis ranked so high, considering how few good songs he had, how early his heyday was, and how much his reputation has suffered since the 1960s.

Wow.... Madonna, Céline Dion Ariana Grande and not

Prince Freddie Mercury David Bowie Radiohead Bjork ???????????????????????????????????????

Thought Taylor Swift would be higher

Good to see ABBA in the top 20

Janbot’s head is exploding.

"Prince Freddie Mercury David Bowie"

Freddie Mercury was in Queen, which is #4 on the list.

A bit surprising Lady Gaga has sold less than Pink or Maroon 5. Judging by her fans she should be in top 10 ahead of Madonna.

Queen is top 5? Last time I saw such a list Elton was top 5. All the others top 5 names are the same.

R9 except these are WORLDWIDE numbers and whites are a minority globally/worldwide

Wow, Madonna sold more than Cher, Janet Jackson and Lady Gaga

COMBINED

Janbot will be along soon to tell us some pointless statistic about how Janet was the first black female to be the best-selling artist on two consecutive days in two separate years.

I don't know why, but it strikes me funny that Enya scored higher than Janet, Beyonce or GaGa.

R26 Enya was HUGE worldwide for years, in fact the US was one of her weakest market She just never got nor wanted the media attention

Hmmmm, Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald and Peggy Lee haven’t sold 8 million? Garland sold more than that after she died?

Enya lives as a semi-recluse. She doesn’t decide to just stop by The View and hand out tickets for a tour like Janet.

R28 the list is acts who debuted during the rock era

Elvis Presley onwards

Impressive. I find it amazing how music sold more when you actually had to go out and actually buy the album. For awhile you can sit at home and buy albums but people did so less.

Plus, music was way better back then. I was a 90s kid but I loved all the music before me and some after. Only two women in the top 11. Madonna made top 5. That is impressive. She did blast the glass ceiling. Nirvana- wow. They weren't even around that long.

R31 Madonna was actually #4 for years until that Freddie Mercury movie came out and their back catalogue sales SOARED

Interestingly enough, Queen only had about SIX big hits in the US, while Madonna has like FORTY or something

R1 has not turned on a radio since 1991

R33 didn't U2 debut in the late 70s?

I think 1979, Madonna's first single was late 1982 followed by the album in summer 1983

R32 I'm not surprised at all about Madonna. She sold massive amounts. Top 5 is fitting. Yes, I seem to remember she was #4 until the movie came out.

What number is Lady Gaga?

R36 LG hasn't really had much success since 2011. She bombed with like 4 consecutive albums. She's been a bit of a non event esp compared to her hit making, album selling age group. Though she is getting a bit long in the tooth to be compared with them.

[quote] She bombed with like 4 consecutive albums.

#1 albums are bombs now. lol

Poor JanBot.

R38 album sales are irrelevant, everyone streams for free which doesn't count towards sales

Madonna's last album debuted at #1 last year, making her only the second over 60 woman in music history after Streisand to have a #1 album and it still only sold 500,000

Yet it's been streamed on Spotify (alone) over 200 Million times

That’s true, r40. So keep in mind people like a Gaga debuted in an era where sales were non-existent. It’s like having to take inflation into account when comparing ticket sales for old and new movies. Times change.

Having streams count as sales (with a complicated formula) is absurd. They need to go back and give more weight (than they now do) to albums people had to physically leave their homes and fork over a good amount of money to buy. That shows, more than anything, what was actually popular than streaming which can be manipulated far easier.

Queen #4 thanks to the successful movie. Millions of albums and singles have been bought and streamed since then

OP, why two #2s? Michael and Elvis aren't tied for second.

Queen may not have had a lot hits in the States, but they were HUGE in the rest of the world. People always forget that there's a vast market outside the US. Case in point, Nana Mouskouri is, along with Madonna, one of the top selling female artists of all time, but most Americans have never heard of her.

R45 Impressive you know about Nana. Yes, Madonna, Nana and Celine have ruled the world, by far, for females.

R45 the Nana thing is suspect, as she doesn't appear on ANY official list in ANY country as one of the biggest selling artists ever

There's ZERO evidence to back her labels "claims"

Literally ZERO

Kylie Minogue at 102!

[quote] They need to go back and give more weight (than they now do) to albums people had to physically leave their homes and fork over a good amount of money to buy.

Uh, where? Music stores are a thing of the past. What century are you living in gramps?

R14 I thought the same thing when I saw Elvis' ranking. His heyday was the 1950s and very early '60s yet he's still ranked so high?

He redeemed himself with a few great recordings in the late 60s...but he was kind of a joke for a long stretch there.

[quote]Madonna was actually #4 for years until that Freddie Mercury movie came out and their back catalogue sales SOARED

[quote]Queen #4 thanks to the successful movie. Millions of albums and singles have been bought and streamed since then

Hmm... Note to self: Call agent and Oseary. Time to make biopic on me. Need to dethrone Beatles.

Mainstream rock and pop was so dominated by males until Madonna. Country had its share of very successful females. R&B as well.

R53 yup.and prior to Madonna, the big selling female artists would go merely double or triple platinum at most. Like Donna Summer, Pat Benetar, Streisand, Diana Ross etc

She comes along with Like a Virgin and sells 10 Million in the US alone and 11 Million outside the US. and then she beats those numbers with the 25 Million selling worldwide True Blue album

In fact when the LAV album went to #1 on the Billboard charts in 1985 it was the first solo album by a female artist to hit #1 in FOUR years since 1981

LAV likely would have sold more had TB not eaten into its sales. Imagine if LAV would have had Crazy For You or Into The Groove? Their long term sales were also cannibalized by Immaculate Collection.

R54 yup, Warner's wanted to do "a Thriller" with LAV and release 7 singles well into 1986, they also were gonna rerelease the album with Into the Groove tacked on for the Christmas 1985 season but Madonna said no, as she was already working on and nearly done recording True Blue

This sales chart is irrelevant in 2020 where it's all about streaming now.

Most streamed artists of all time on Spotify (by lead artist credit):

#1 Drake

#2 Ed Sheeran

#3 Eminem

#4 Ariana Grande

#5 Post Malone

#6 Justin Bieber

#7 The Weeknd

#8 Rihanna

#9 Coldplay

R56 streaming is irrelevant too, it's FREE, crazed fans will stream their favorite artists on loop

Concert ticket sales/box office should be used as the barometer of a successful artist

R56 this chart includes streaming. Without it, Drake wouldn’t be that high on the list. Just saying

HAHAHHA! Janbot will STILL argue than Janet was some huge star. Do notice that fucking ENYA has outsold Janet. Yes, ENYA!!!

R57, streaming is what matters and the charts reflect that. Artists make the majority of their income through it. Buying music is antiquated.

Regarding Madonna and the Stones, what's impressive is that the Stones have like twice the size of the catalogue of Madonna but she matches them. The Stones may overtake her due to streaming but Madonna will remain the only female artist in the top 10. There is 0 chance of anyone knocking her from the top 10.

[quote] Nirvana is my all time favorite band. But I never they'd be that high.

What's incredible is that with streaming, singles sales, digital singles sales and compilations, Nevermind is one of the 10 best selling albums of all time. That's fucking nuts.

[quote] LAV likely would have sold more had TB not eaten into its sales

This is taken into account in one of their lists of the best selling albums. It takes into account compilations, singles, digital singles, streaming, etc. Celine Dion is the only female with two back-to-back albums with more success than LAV and True Blue.

R60, not true that artists make the majority of their money though streaming. .008 cents a stream. That’s why everyone tours and does endorsements now.

Honestly, I don’t think streaming and sales can be compared accurately. Future lists should just be streaming or just sales, as buying music is a thing of the past.

Shania Twain and Adele--two artists with only like 6 or 7 albums between them--have outsold Janet. Janet is not even one of the top 10 female artists. Another surprising thing here is that Eminem has outsold Mariah! That's huge.

"[R14] I thought the same thing when I saw Elvis' ranking. His heyday was the 1950s and very early '60s yet he's still ranked so high? "

Yeah, Elvis became a joke by the early sixties, gets no play on Oldies radio, and had very few good songs. And there are no artists from the 1950s on that list, mass media wasn't quite as massive then, and the fans who remember those days are old now. The only reason I can imagine for that ranking (if it's accurate) is that the Deplorables have continued to quietly buy his music for decades. I understand that's where his fan base has been since his death, and we don't pay any attention to what they listen to.

As for Queen suddenly bumping up the list... I heard that Brian May spent about ten years doggedly pushing the Freddie Mercury movie through Development Hell. It turns out to have been time well spent.

If it is international rankings, then Elvis' position is understandable. He is still popular overseas, especially in Asian countries, where his rebel yet wholesome image is more palatable to their conservative tastes than say, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, and even, Madonna.

Celine Dion being so high on that list is an abomination.

Also, Elvis has crossover appeal due to his gospel recordings. He also appeal to country music fans.

Sales of these old-timey artists are in the millions, while streams of the newer superstars are in the tens of BILLIONS. There's no comparison.

Why do people keep talking about Nirvana? They are not in the top 10.

R70 that's a bullshit "argument",. If they had streaming in the 50s-early 2000s, these artists would be in the BILLIONS too

People actually had to GO OUT OF THEIR HOUSE AND BUY MUSIC back then

And artists make practically NOTHING off of FREE streaming, mere pennies

Touring is the most lucrative for them, it takes a popular artist to sell millions of tickets the world over at hefty prices, followed by (and no one ever mentions this) official merchandise sales, tour books, t shirts, posters etc. Have become even more profitable than album sales/streaming too in recent years

R70 Yes, bullshit argument. Watching something or listening to something should not equate a sale.So then, lets add up all the radio play for artists? Even that can be and has been manipulated. I bet if there was no streaming and people had to get out of their houses to buy music again, you would see huge shifts in who is popular and successful.Back in the day, album tracks could not chart. For instance, Madonna's Into The Groove was #1 in sales and a huge radio hit yet did not chart. Why? It wasn't released officially as a single. Now, Drake can have 10 top 40 hits in one week from streaming alone.

R72 Exactly. Touring is difficult in and of itself.

R51, you're correct that if Madonna authorized a good biopic complete with access to her catalog, her sales would blow her up to at least #3, if not higher.

R54/R55, true. For years Madonna was her own biggest competitor and her own worst enemy when it came to her sales. She cannibalized herself with her first album and LAV, then with LAV/TB, then again with TB/WTG, then LAP/Breathless/TIC, and AGAIN with BS/STR/Evita, and even arguably with ROL/Music.

Streaming is way to easily manipulated, as Bieber demonstrated when he told his fans to put some song if his on repeat while they slept. There simply is no way now to replicate the value of having to physically purchase a record/tape/CD, even at a reduced price.

^ "too easily." And I forgot the link:

R74 Yes and no. She was her biggest competitor and she did cannibalize her sales esp with Immaculate Collection coming too soon after Like A Prayer. Immaculate Collection should have waited until late 1991. She should have allowed WBR to add on Into The Groove and Crazy For You (that may have been a Geffen thing) to Like A Virgin. It was smart to go straight into True Blue. I'm not sure Who's that Girl hurt TB as much as Immaculate Collection did. She definitely killed the momentum from her first album with LAV. Again, not a bad career move, though. Same with ROL /Music.

Didn't Jay Z get busted goosing up Beyonce's streaming with Tidal?

R78 indeed

Queen leads Madonna by more than 23 million in album sales alone. If you think Bohemian Rhapsody made Queen sell 23 million (plus whatever Madonna has sold after 2018) albums then you are one fucking idiot. If queen sold anywhere close to 25 million since 2018 when BR released, they'd be by far the best selling musical act of the world in the last two years.

Queen would have been at #4 with or without the movie. Their music helped the dull movie become a massive success not the other way round.

R80 not true, Madonna was #4 on that very list until last year

Madonna sold WAY MORE singles than Queen

R77 I think it was smart to go to TB only because "Into the Groove" and "Crazy for You" had already disrupted LAV's momentum. But she could have had another 1-2 singles from LAV easily--everything she released from that album went top 5. And of course if "ITG" and "CFY"/"Gambler" had been on that album it would have been as big as TB at least. Also WTG definitely hurt TB in that she could have had 1-2 more singles from TG as well--everything released from TB also went top 5.

Why the disrepect for Elvis? His catalog is amazing.

I wonder if Madonna will push for a biopic the way Elton John did.

Probably not, because that would admit that she's no longer young enough to play the lead herself.

R80, the film's impact on their sales was ginormous. 3-4x increase in the first 6 mo after release and still going strong.

Queen has sold massive amounts of their GH compilations. That is where their sales are.

The Top 10 are massive international sellers.

Are these based on certifications alone? I didn't have time to read the article.

R84 Aside from the gratuitous diss of Madonna that came out of nowhere, she has consistently, even younger, shied away from doing something like a biopic. She has toyed with the idea from time to time but in the end, decided against it.

Why didn't Tidal try to fudge Madonna's numbers instead of just Kanye and Beyonce? Hmmmmm

R84 they were gonna make an unauthorized one a few years back with Brett Rayner directing and Madonna went apeshit over it, blasting it on social media and DEMANDING to read the script, she basically did everything she can to stop it from being made and it worked

Madonna HATES being considered a "nostalgia act" like Queen or Elton, she's not having that, I think we will get a biopic probably when she finally retires , it will be official.of course

Janet SLAYING at #57!

Look, #57 of all time is damn good! Especially for a female solo artist.

Madonna won't even do her greatest hits on tour on her own terms, no fucking way is she going to greenlight some nostalgia movie.

R89, but not even in the same universe as good as #5 and being the top female solo artist.

R87 I kind of admire that about Madonna. It is frustrating for those who want her to embrace her past, and there are signs she is. She would make a killing off her music with touring and merchandising it properly in TV, films and such. But she doesn't. If it was about ego, she could have her cake and eat it too but she doesn't. I think it hurt she was with WBR and rightly left them. They are awful. Prince said they were the worst. It is why she had to learn to market herself- they weren't going to help much. But it also hurts her not having any good team around her to market her going forward;leading her in the direction of at least taking care of her catalog.

Well Madonna belongs in the top 5 for her catalogue of pop hits. But after "Vogue" she went downhill, creatively, IMO.

I guess it's nice that she's still trying, who knows maybe she'll strike gold again. But it seems doubtful.

R93 She went downhill creatively after Vogue? Most critics and fans would argue she was only getting started. I guess to each his own.

I don't know why anybody would care if Madonna finds success again or not. She is at the very top. By far. What more could she want? As others have said, she could dip into the nostalgia well and find huge pent up demand. She chooses not to.

R93 her best album came WAY AFTER Vogue

Ray of Light in 1998

Whatevs, her later work is never played.

R96 that's because the 80s in general is more nostalgic and remembered than the 90s and 2000s

Almost no big hits from any artists in the 90s gets play, Boyz II Men owned the 90s but I never hear their stuff in the radio There's something "special" about the 80s in pop culture

[quote]Most streamed artists of all time on Spotify (by lead artist credit): #1 Drake; #2 Ed Sheeran; #3 Eminem; #4 Ariana Grande; #5 Post Malone; #6 Justin Bieber; #7 The Weeknd; #8 Rihanna; #9 Coldplay

This list makes me sad (with few exceptions). In 30 years, are people going to look at these artists with the same awe and reverence that we bestow upon the Beatles, the Stones, and Zeppelin? Will Drake and Bieber replace Michael and Elvis on the all time greatest list?

r81 so from last year to now, Queen sold not just 23 million albums but 23 million albums more than what Madonna sold ? r85 , it doesn't matter by what fold their sales went up after the release of the movie. It's about how many records they sold in pure sales after the movie. Did they sell 23 million more records than Madonna in just 2 years ? Did they even sell 23 million records in the last two years ? Can u show the numbers on how many albums Queen and Madonna sold after BR released ?

R96, never played where? Her streaming numbers for Ray of Light, Confessions, and Rebel Heart are as strong as her early catalog streaming numbers.

R100 exactly and her most viewed video on YouTube is a song/video from 2015

But 80s nostalgia ALWAYS overrides 90s and 2000s nostalgia

There's nothing like the 80s. Nothing. 90s and 00s songs just didn't connect with such large groups as 80s music did. By the 90s we were balkanized.

R102 Although the 70s has big nostalgia too

R99, 2 years ago the same site had Madonna (#4) ahead of Queen (#7) in pure album sales.

[quote]But 80s nostalgia ALWAYS overrides 90s and 2000s nostalgia

Honestly I don't think this is true. I hear far more Amy Winehouse on my local stations than later Madonna. of which I hear virtually none except for 'Rain'. You could say it's just Amy nostalgia except I hear more Adele than later Madonna.

104 By their own admission, their numbers aren't up to date/accurate. They probably corrected their numbers now.

R105 it depends on where you live

I hear Take a Bow, her biggest US radio hit from 1995, a lot on the radio still, NEVER hear Amy but do hear Adele

R106, they specify how up to date they are for each artist. Both Madonna and Queen were up to date as of 2017.

I hear Frozen, Don't Tell Me, Secret, Take A Bow (though not as much). Madonna has so many hits though. I can understand why some stations focus on her trademark hits. I never hear Amy Winehouse.

Live in Houston.

As far as what Madonna songs get played, I think you're just as likely now to hear "Take a Bow" "Ray of Light" or "Hung Up" as any of her songs up to "Vogue."

[quote]Frozen, Don't Tell Me, Secret, Take A Bow

Only one I ever hear is 'Take A Bow'. But I concede it could be geographical, as R107 posits.

R110 I don't listen to commercial radio anymore but I hear newer Madonna songs, even sings that weren't big hits, all the time in stores and my gym

I work at Target and they always play "Jump", "Living for Love", "Get Together" etc

It's weird since they weren't big hits in the US at the time of their release

Where are they getting their criteria from?

Nielsen Soundscan has been tallying actual music sales since 1991. This was their list of biggest selling female acts post 1991 back in 2015. These were the top five:

Mariah Carey (54,209,000).

Celine Dion (52,129,000).

Shania Twain (34,250,000).

Britney Spears (33,300,000).

Reba McEntire (30,118,000).

R113 that's just album sales in the US since 1991, not singles or streaming

This takes into account worldwide numbers, album and single sales, streaming numbers etc

I think Madonna is at 30 Million albums sold in the US since 1991 , 65 Million from 1983 to the present

Yeah, in the US Mariah is strong competition for Madonna, but worldwide she's not even close.

Please note that Queen’s album and singles were updated in 2020 meanwhile Madonna’s numbers are still from 2017.

Their streaming however were both updated in 2020.

Madonna used to be number #4. Queen’s sales and streaming due to the tremendous success of the film have vastly increased

Drakes has billions in streaming. No wonder most of his sales equivalent comes from streaming

Madonna is vastly undercertified in the US by probably 10-15 million albums alone. WBR hasn't recertified her catalog since she left them in 2009. And they were horrible at recertifying to begin with. Mariah was just recertified. Also, Soundscan missed Madonna's enormous Immaculate Collection sales from Fall of 1990. She likely sold close to 6-7 million during the time right before SS started.

Do we have the Madge version of Janbot now?

Madgebot?

We are all strictly talking numbers. We got off on a Madonna tangent but I don't detect bot behavior.

Didn’t see The Beach Boys on that list.

Were the Beach Boys a huge selling album band or were they just a singles band?

The Beach Boys were bigger in singles sales. Pre-1970s, aside from the Beatles, there were few big album sellers. A gold record was a much bigger deal then, platinum certification wasn't even introduced until the mid-70s.

^ Forgot to add, the platinum certification when it was first unveiled was 2 million for singles, 1 million for albums. Up to that point, a gold certification meant 1 million for each, then gold was bumped down to 500k for albums and kept at 1 million for singles.

R124 And what is messed up- when they changed singles, they did not bump up the singles who were Gold but sold a million units up to platinum. I think they changed it in the late 80s. That is messed up.

Didn't the RIAA recertify after the fact? I think they rely on the labels to push for recertification, but they will do it.

^ For example, if you look at the Beatles catalog, you see a bunch of their singles retroactively recertified as platinum.

R127 Yes, it is supposed to be pushed by labels but so many are terrible at it and some don't exist. It should be done regardless.

Agreed. I thought you meant they refused to do it.

I never understand the success of Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin. Who actually listens and buy their music?

Janbot is creating a ton of negative Madonna threads because of this thread. LMFAO

Poor JanBot.

Janbot really did go and create all these Madonna threads bashing her looks and such. They all appeared after this thread got going. Is this poster really that unhinged?

Cher at 61?? She should have been in the top 20, maybe the top 10.

R134 Based on?

I trolldar'd Janbot. It had posted 27 times in the anti-Madonna thread. There were only 40 something posts.

R134 stats don’t lie. What you think does not equal facts

R137 Who knows. Cher is not a musical force.

I'm gonna get called the Neil Diamond Troll again but he's sold 130M albums over the years which should put him near Prince on the list, but he's not on there at all.

How many other artists aren't on the list who should be? And why not?

What does this mean, anyway? It's supposed to explain the absence of older artists but that doesn't make much sense to me.

[quote]older artists have very few features, so the absence of them can be irrelevant. The Beatles for example have simply no orphan song at all.

Cher has sold over 100M albums so she should be about #39, not #61.

James Brown has sold over 50M and should be on the list, but he's not on it at all.

The Monkees sold 75M albums (35M in one year) and aren't on the list.

What exactly is going on here?

R140 the link at R1 isn't just album sales. Why exactly can you not read?

There is no link at R1.

^Oops, meat the link at OP.

The point is that the sales on this chart cover all types of media, not just albums. I know that.

What I'm saying is that if we know someone has sold 150M albums, we can also assume they've sold at least a few streaming, digital singles, etc. that are also measured on here. Therefore, if someone has sold 150M albums [italic] before adding in streaming, digital singles, etc. [/italic] then they should be on this chart somewhere.

The article is barely coherent and the metrics don't make sense.

You can't assume anything, R144. The site does analysis of individual artists that deep dive into their catalogs. Cher, for example, has very weak streaming numbers. And even though "Believe" is one of the biggest selling singles ever, overall her singles sales are not that strong.

Dolly Parton? Frank Sinatra? Ella Fitzgerald? Neil Diamond? None of them have outsold Arctic Monkeys or Little Mix?

Irrelevant. If the list is missing artists like Johnny Cash, James Brown, and Frank Sinatra who have sold more albums than, say, Renaud (#118) has sold ALL singles/albums/streams in total, it's not a comprehensive list. "Well, Sinatra doesn't stream much" doesn't on ANY level equal "Renaud is a better-selling artist than Sinatra."

This ChartMaster website is basically 538 for album sales, except made incomprehensible by poor English and attention-getting tactics.

If you're really into this kind of thing, that's fine, but it's been presented on this thread as a comprehensive list based on solid, time-tested metrics. It's not.

The site also has charts of pure album/single sales, pure digital sales, etc. The list at OP is one of many. But do go on with your silly posturing.

Okay, ChartMater Troll 🍅🍅

Cher has not sold over 100M albums. If so, give us receipts.

Could it be certifications are counted only? Some record companies, like WBR, are terrible with certifying or recertifying their artists. If a band or artist actually sold more, like Sinatra, but their record company failed to certify, maybe that is the difference? Both Prince and Madonna are under certified by a lot.

By the mid-90s people were stealing songs off the internet. That's why everyone is from the 70s - 80s.

R149, reading comprehension is not trolling. Trolling is complaining that a list that purports to show one thing isn't legit because it doesn't show another thing even though the site that has the list has other lists that show that other thing.

R151 No, people sold a fuck load in the late 90s through to the 10s. Adele had zero issues selling. Beyonce had zero issues selling. Beiber has zero issues selling. Jonas Bros had zero issues selling. Same with Katy Perry. I saw a Gaga stan try to make that point because she struggled to sell but artists the general population likes had no issues selling.

Gaga is bigger than Madonna.

Female musicians with the most #1 albums on official charts worldwide that debuted this century:

1. Lady Gaga - 72

2. Ariana Grande - 70

3. Adele - 62

4. Taylor Swift - 61

5. Norah Jones - 53

6. Pink- 47

7. Beyonce - 37

8. AvrilLavigne - 31

That debuted this century. Key.

And a #1 album means nothing in the age of streaming. Gaga can't sell more than 10 of her contemporaries. Taylor, Adele, Katy, Beyonce, Dua Lupa, Arianna, and many others blow Gaga out of the water with albums and singles. Gaga isn't bigger than anybody. I KNEW you were triggered and trying to diminish this thread and chart.

R154 Totally made up chart statistic.

R156, It's the opposite of made up. These are from OFFICIAL CHARTS.

R157 No they are not.

Madonna's biggest song on youtube is La Isla Bonita followed by Hung Up and Like A Prayer. Frozen does well.

Can we get back to this chart? Janbot and the Gaga loon have derailed it.

I wonder if they take into account only certified sales. That could explain a lot.

R160, Janbot IS the Gaga loon. No, it's not just certified sales. Chartmaster says they haven't studied all artists yet. It's still missing some big artists but I don't think any of the artists they haven't studied have a chance of hitting the top 10. Maybe Frank Sinatra, but that's it.

R161 Ahhh thank you, that makes sense about Janbot.

That also makes sense that they haven't gotten around to all artists. I guess they don't want to publish figures for artists when they haven't gone deep into their sales and applied their formulas to them.

[quote]Cher has not sold over 100M albums. If so, give us receipts.

Go to Wikipedia, lazy ass. There are multiple sources there.

R163 Are you including her albums with Sony? Doesn't count for her alone.

[quote]reading comprehension is not trolling

Okay, look, I'm sorry you're new, but calling you the ChartMater Troll on Datalounge isn't the same as calling someone a regular everyday troll.

The reason this thread went haywire so quickly is because people assumed it was a comprehensive best-selling list, when it wasn't, which set off the Janbot Troll and the Janbot Accuser Troll.

Sorry you don't know what a Google or a Wikipedia is, R164. Must really affect your quality of life.

R162, exactly, they do a lot of investigation into all the artists.

R165 There is no Janbot accuser troll. We have to call out that person because they flip out every time Janet doesn't fare well and Madonna does. As far as not comprehensive, it IS if the artist is actually listed. They've dug deep into actual numbers. Others with an agenda are trying to derail this thread by suggesting it is not accurate when it is not accurate only for artists not listed who we know have sold a lot.

Wait, you meant Sonny at R164, not Sony, right? Oh lord. Okay, you're dumb, I'll help you out.

[quote]As a solo artist, Cher has sold 100 million records worldwide (in addition to 40 million as Sonny & Cher)

The sources were Time, Vanity Fair, The Telegraph, and AllMusic stats.

R169 Nice try (not really). It says "Claimed sales" when ACTUAL certified sales are 41 million. Is she under certified? Maybe. Until then, 100M for Cher is highly suspect.

R169 Doesn't know how to read. That 100 million claimed sales is not for albums but all sales including singles. Believe probably accounts for the bulk of that. But Cher did not sell anywhere close to 100 million albums.

[quote]We have to call out that person because they flip out every time Janet doesn't fare well and Madonna does.

No, you don't have to constantly shriek "JANBOT!" or "Poo Shoes!" or "Welp Troll!" or anything else, for that matter. I suspect the entire point of this thread was specifically to antagonize whoever it is you think is Janbot.

[quote] As far as not comprehensive, it IS if the artist is actually listed.

No. What you mean is that their information and stats are detailed for the specific artists they've looked at so far. Because they've only looked at a sampling of artists, their "best selling artists of all time" list is NOT comprehensive. It's selective.

R172 So we should never post anything for fear of upsetting this janthing? You're fucking nuts (and have an agenda).

There aren't many who would even make the top 10 who haven't been looked at so calm your fucking tits. If an artist is on the list they've been looked at extensively.

Certified units weren't common until the 1980s and 1990s, which the page very specifically explains, and many artists are left off that list because of it (Dolly Parton, Diana Ross, and others).

Cher is included because her claimed sales fit the available figures with regard to certified units sold. That goes for a vast majority of those artists on the list.

You don't want to believe it, fine, not my problem. I chose Cher because someone else mentioned her earlier in the thread; I could have chosen plenty of others instead. Notably, most of the sales on the Wikipedia page match the figures for artists that ChartMater includes, but you've decided Wikipedia is lying about Cher, so.

[quote]So we should never post anything for fear of upsetting this janthing?

Not even close to what I said. Aren't you the dolt who has been going around shrieking about reading comprehension?

R165, not new, I just know how to read. Again, the site acknowledges all of the things you keep complaining about. Right there on the page linked at R104:

"Please keep in mind that some artists haven’t been studied so far, e.g. legends like Elvis Presley (who should have similar results to Michael Jackson) or Frank Sinatra (probably in the top 15), so their pure album sales aren’t available so far. All figures reflect the value as collected at the time of the artist’s respective articles."

Maybe everyone should stop defending their favorite artists. Unless you are related to them some how, why do you care if the sold less or more. Y’all are like high school girls defending their diva. Let it go. If you like Cher or Gaga what do you care if Madonna did or did not sell well. This is one chart with specific methodology. Also, how well are records kept for music since 1960 for all countries? Certification vs Shipped? Soundscan started in the early 1990. Streaming is a different angle. You could argue this stuff all day long.

R174 and R175 No that wasn't me but Cher has not sold that many albums. That 100M figure is for albums and singles combined. You are choosing to be obtuse in order to dismiss this list because your faves didn't fare too well.

R177 The only ones defending their faves is the jan/gaga person. They are in a tizzy. Stats are stats. You can argue to a point but only to a point.

[quote]I trolldar'd Janbot. It had posted 27 times in the anti-Madonna thread.

You posted 39 times in this thread, and your friend (or "friend") has posted 26. All three of you are trolls.

The problem R177 is that I was listing different artists as examples, not realizing that these trolls were assuming (wrongly) that those artists were my faves and I was defending them. I also didn't realize that they were posting all this as a Madonna defense and anti-Janet Jackson/Janbot thread.

Per the ChartMater site, Cher's album sales from all sources are 53 million worldwide:

R180 Yes and my replies are facts. I am defending the chart from attacks from fan nuts not flaming. Defending Madonna? How you little bitch? Now I know exactly who you are. Busted.

R180 Says the troll who posted 47 times in this thread.

R119 that’s the Madonna loon!

Madonna Loon AKA Jabba

I like Madonna, but if I see her name mentioned in one more comment here, I think I am going to throw up a little. Yes, she's great, but can we please talk about some of the other acts on this chart?

One thing that's interesting is that these charts make clear Elton John's sales didn't get that much of a bump from Rocketman. Not even in the same universe as Queen's sales post-Bohemian Rhapsody.

The most impressive star on this list by far is Michael Jackson. He is the number 1 solo artist just behind the Beatles. Rather than split his success and money four ways, it was all his, for better or worse. Despite the allegations, his music is still widely played on radio stations throughout the world on several formats. I hear him more than the Beatles, Elvis and Madonna combined where I live.

R184 Nope. No one was attacking Madonna in this thread. You don't attack the #5 selling person. Everybody was having a nice discussion until the jan/gaga troll went nuts. Here they are right now R185 jabba who is the alter ego of janbot and who doesn't like Madonna.

Gaga has more talent in her toe nail than Madonna in her entire body.

[quote]That debuted this century. Key.

So you're saying that Madonna is over 100 years old? LOL

As you can clearly see from this list using OFFICIAL WORLDWIDE CHARTS that Madonna has been irrelevant for the past 25 years. She was once dominant, but that hasn't been the case in decades.

Female artists with the most #1 singles on official charts worldwide (as lead artist):

1. Rihanna 159

2. Lady Gaga 140

3. Katy Perry 114

4. Ariana Grande 93

5. Pink 88

6. Adele 87

7. Taylor Swift 53

8. Beyonce 52

Not sure what your point is R191. Of course current artists have sold more if you limit the time frame. This is measuring longer than from 2000. Almost all of the best selling artists of all time haven’t had a #1 chart hit since 2000. I doubt many people think Pink is more popular than Michael Jackson because she out sold him for the last 20 years. If I start with the year 2019, the list would be different since some of those artists haven’t released music in last year.

Change the goalposts as you wish though to make “your” diva #1. You might want to consider why you spend so much time doing this. Maybe get a hobby other than fan obsession?

R190 Sure, Jan. That's why she can't buy a hit or keep up with her contemporaries. Too bad the general public doesn't agree or buy her solo shit.

R191 That was fan made and is complete bullshit. Gaga cannot keep up with any of those women. They have far more #1s, top 10s and have sold far more albums.

Just like her questionable induction into the rock and roll hall of fame, the validity of Madonnas sales here are all smoke and mirrors, the rest of the top 10 looks accurate.

R191, you do know that this is the 21st century right? And Madonna debuted in the 1980s which are part of the 20th century?

R195, your comment doesn't make any sense. How are Madonna's sales all smoke and mirrors? Your saying chartmasters just happened to fudge Madonna's sales while getting everyone else in the top 10 right? No.

JanBot never makes sense.

I find the performance of bands like Guns N' Roses and Nirvana the most interesting. Nirvana only had like 3 studio albums, one of which is one of the 10 most popular albums ever. With Guns N' Roses, we know that Appetite for Destruction and the Use Your Illusion Double Album are still popular because their music resonates with the public. With Nirvana, how much of their popularity is due to genuine appreciation of their music vs. post-death hype? Whitney Houston's music was actually not doing too well in terms of digital sales/streaming until her death. Once she died, people were downloading, viewing and streaming her biggest hits like crazy. She also happened to die at the time when Spotify was just starting to become huge.

Tracy Chapman at 83 is a surprise

Tracy's debut does incredibly well on streaming which is surprising to me. I didn't think anyone younger than me (32) was even familiar with her music at all. Of course, her best performing song is Fast Car. Her album did very well in Europe when it was released there which also surprises me because it's a folk album.

I think a lot people are surprised about worldwide numbers. People you think would be a hit worldwide aren't and those you think wouldn't be are.

R199 "With Nirvana, how much of their popularity is due to genuine appreciation of their music vs. post-death hype?"

I don't think it's really possible to measure that, but Nevermind was HUGE when it was first released. Third biggest selling album in the US in 1992 after Michael Jackson and Garth Brooks and also a big hit across Europe. No doubt Kurt's death boosted interest in them (hardly any of the early 90s grunge acts have sparked any interest in subsequent generations) but they were legit one of the biggest bands in the world when he was alive.

R150, what a childish response.

Why in the world is Queen on this list? They had two number one songs (Crazy Little Thing Called Love, Another One Bites The Dust) and about three other top ten songs. Not exactly record-breaking.

Most people think in terms of who the biggest artist of a decade was. For the Fifties, it was Elvis. For the Sixties, it was the Beatles. For the Seventies, it was Elton John. For the Eighties, it was Madonna. The rest is just trivia.

Why in the world is Queen on this list? They had two number one songs (Crazy Little Thing Called Love, Another One Bites The Dust) and about three other top ten songs. Not exactly record-breaking.

Most people think in terms of who the biggest artist of a decade was. For the Fifties, it was Elvis. For the Sixties, it was the Beatles. For the Seventies, it was Elton John. For the Eighties, it was Madonna. The rest is just trivia.

[quote] Why in the world is Queen on this list?

I guess you missed the title of the thread?

[quote] For the Eighties, it was Madonna.

Uh, no, it's Michael Jackson. However, since he debuted in the 70s, Madonna IS the biggest selling artist to debut after 1980.

Madonna's the only female in the top 10?

[quote]That debuted this century. Key.

[quote]So you're saying that Madonna is over 100 years old? LOL

No one can be that stupid.

R208, yes. Celine was at number 11. Eminem is now higher than Mariah.

"Why in the world is Queen on this list? They had two number one songs (Crazy Little Thing Called Love, Another One Bites The Dust) and about three other top ten songs. Not exactly record-breaking."

Why are people this short-sighted? Original chart positions are only a snapshot of part of the public response at the time of release. They don't say anything about a song or album or artist's staying power or ability to connect with future generations. There are plenty of huge #1 hits and initially successful artists that no one cares about anymore.

"Bohemian Rhapsody" is the most-streamed song from the 20th Century. That means the kiddies love it too. Queen's 2 greatest hits albums have been consistent high sellers every decade since their release. That means they gain lots of new fans as new generations discover them. That's why they are on this chart--because they've been selling big for a long time.

Loads of rock songs never hit number one or anywhere close to it but are still streamed in large number to this day. Stairway to Heaven, Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, November Rain, Smells like Teen Spirit, In the End, etc.

^ Exactly. Plus airplay was historically given way too much weight in determining the Hot 100 singles chart. Pop radio stations didn't always choose their rotations based on what people loved the most--and they definitely weren't giving much airtime to seven minute songs.

In the early days of Billboard, they charted airplay, sales and even jukebox plays separately. They junked those charts by the 60s and created the Hot 100 which combined sales and airplay metrics. And for a long time they only considered a narrow category of stations for airplay. So hard rock, electronic, gospel, and other "niche" acts weren't going to chart well unless they crossed over to a pop station. And to do that you needed DJs willing to play it or "forced" to play it because of demand.

R204 You have a strange definition of childish.

Yeah, I think including airplay in the hot 100 is so fucking stupid. Who the hell cares how often a song is played on the radio? It's not like most of that is due to people requesting that shit. In the 90s, wasn't the Billboard 100 revamped to be even more skewed towards airplay? I think that's how Mariah managed to get so many number one hits. I found an article recently that showed that the singles from Mariah's Butterfly weren't doing that great until Mottola got radio stations to play the song more which helped get My All and Honey to number one. Otherwise they would have been in the top 10 but never hit number one.

R206 Most people think of Michael Jackson or Prince as the acts that defined pop music in the 80s. I’d even consider Cyndi Lauper and Culture Club/Boy George as more “80s” then Madonna

Forgot to add at R213: also Billboard had rules about eligibility to chart that meant some wildly popular songs could never chart on the Hot 100. One rule was that the song has to be purchasable as a single (not just as part of an album). So when a station plays an album track that isn't sold separately as a single (very common on classic rock stations), it couldn't chart no matter how much it was played.

R216 Yeah oooookay. Suuuuuure.

Google Mariah and payola. Tommy got her many #1s that weren't deserved. She also deeply discounted her singles. Billboard had to change their rules because of it.

[quote] I’d even consider Cyndi Lauper and Culture Club/Boy George as more “80s” then Madonna

You'd be in the minority.

That explains why nobody even remembers most of Mariah's number one hits. Compare to that to the hits that The Beatles, The Supremes, Michael Jackson, Madonna or Whitney had in their prime. There is just no comparison,

R216, Holiday, Lucky Star, Borderline, Like a Virgin, Material Girl, Crazy for You, Angel, Into the Groove, Dress You Up, Live to Tell, Papa Don't Preach, True Blue, Open Your Heart, La Isla Bonita, Who's That Girl, Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Cherish -- All '80s hits. Madonna was everywhere in the 1980s. Radio, MTV, magazines, etc. And her look defined the '80s just as much as Michael's.

R221 facts dont matter to Jabs.

R220, Madonna’s seat sniffer, keeps trying to lump Madonna in with real artists that had and still have a much bigger cultural impact. Sure, she sold a lot of horrendous music decades ago, now she’s all but forgotten

Mariah was aided by her husband. He stacked the deck. Most of her #1s are not big streaming/youtube hits. They aren't classics. She had too much payola and discounted singles.

R223 You do realize saying it doesn't make it true. Are you our current WH occupant? That person mentioned others but you singled out one artist. I wonder why? Oh never mind. I know. You're in pain, toots. Suck it up.

R225, R223 think that Janet was bigger than Madonna, they don't live in the real world.

R223 - I singled out one, because “one of these things is not like the others”

R227 No, we know why you singled her out and that was not it. You tried but failed miserably.

R226 not at all, I just don’t think Madonna had/had the same impact as The supremes, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston

R229 You are blinded and stupid. STOP with YOUR SHIT. WE ARE SICK OF IT.

Uh, Madonna definitely had more of an impact as The Supremes or Mariah.

*than, not as

R231 no one said Mariah

Denying Madonna had a huge once in a lifetime impact is insulting. Even her haters will acknowledge this. You cannot rewrite history by typing out the words you fucking nut.

Don't forget Joseph was once a huge Madonna fan. It's obvious by how much he knows about her.

Anywaaaayz,

It is interesting to see who was a huge album seller vs a huge singles seller or who was both.

It's longevity that matters on this list, continuing to sell music for decade after decade. I mean look at Led Zepplin, who had a heyday that lasted only about five years, and who didn't have #1 hits (according to five seconds of internet research). Horrible acts like Niel Diamond and the Osmonds probably sold more records at the time, but the Osmonds are forgotten outside of Utah and Led Zepplin continues to sell forty years after their drummer choked on his own vomit. Even my local Oldies radio station devotes about 20% of their programming to their stuff.

Who knew that being a has-been could be so lucrative!

Have to admire Madonna, who is the only female in top 10. It’s been easier to be a male singer or band whose music is bought by virtually everyone: straight, ga, men or woman. Not many straight people purchase Madonna’s music which is considered gay.

R229 your uninformed opinion is useless. Aside from the sheer number of people who've cited her as a direct influence, Madonna's cultural impact has been the subject of scholarly research.

The Madonna-haters are SEETHING.

Wow, this chart has made Janbot lose his shit.

Don't go near any bridges, Janbot!

R238 Considered gay? Plenty of straight people like her music esp straight women who are her primary audience. You think she sold that much with mostly gays?

Led Zepplin has continued to sell. It is amazing how you see hot acts who sold a shit load initially but faded quickly while others, like Zepplin, continued to sell sell sell. Also, acts like Springsteen never had a #1 hit but sold truck loads.

Males in the rock genre have a huge advantage. There isn't hardly any age discrimination and rock stations will continue to play them along with younger acts.

R238 not only is she the only female , but I’d argue she’s the only one of the top ten that is not a real musician, sort of a man made pop star. Not much of a voice, doesn’t write music or lyrics, more of a visual “artist”.

R243 Sure, Jan. God you fucking nuts are triggered.

"doesn’t write music or lyrics" Yeah, OK. Camille Barbone spent over a decade in litigation with Madonna over ownership of a 4-song demo tape from before she was famous. But the idiot at R243 thinks there are a bunch of suckers out there who have all conceded hundreds of millions to Madonna in royalties forever by letting her claim songwriting credits.

[quote] Not many straight people purchase Madonna’s music which is considered gay.

This is so not true. The biggest Madonna fans I've met have been straight women. Not saying gay men aren't big fans but it's really the straight crowd that made her so huge. Sure, straight guys aren't her biggest fan group but then again that's how it goes with many female artists. If you're a straight man and listen to Kate Bush or Enya you probably keep that to yourself. Madonna’s music is actually more butch than theirs. Her voice can get quite masculine.

This is actually why I respect Madonna. She really put her career on the line when giving gay men so much positive attention when it wasn't easy or cool. And yes I know some of her gay dancers weren't too happy with her in the end but we all know she's a tough business girl with possibly some kind of personality disorder. The reality is it's many times the super cunts that make the change possible. However she's shown time and time again she's still vulnerable in her own way and that her heart is in the right place.

It's actually funny how I find myself defending Madonna these days. I always had friends, straight girls and fellow gay men, who were her big fans and I was always like meh. Still, I've liked some of her songs over the years and I really loved Confessions on the Dance Floor. I never would've believed in the 80s she turns out to have such a long career with so many changes in her music style.

And Janbot, relax, I was a Janet fan during The Rhythm Nation and always found her very likeable. There's no need to pit these two against each other. Janet lost her way and Maddie kept on going long after her.

R244 see r245 for an example of nuts ....

Who the hell is Camille Barbour?

Exactly r248

Queen are extremely impressive. Their music has universal appeal.

From UKMix:

Current daily average YouTube views:

Madonna: 2.6 millions - Jennifer Lopez: 1.9 millions - Britney Spears: 1.8 millions - Pink: 1.5 millions - Whitney Houston: 1.4 millions - Mariah Carey: 1.5 millions - Celine Dion: 1.1 millions - Christina Aguilera: 0.8 million - Janet Jackson: 0.14 million

Madonna right behind .... Iggy Azalea ?! Weird flex r251

Let's hear it for Janet "Heinz 57" Jackson!

Aren't Madonna's youtube views fucked up? Warners has her videos up as well as she has her own channel. Do they both get counted? They yanked all their artists off youtube for years in a dispute with YT. All the views prior were lost forever plus the years the videos were gone. Also, she has a zillion fan uploaded videos getting views. Someone needs to clean that up. Her YT views have started rebounding only in the last few years. Someone posted on a Prince forum (mainly it was his YT views and what would have been) that La Isla Bonita would be at 1.4 billion views if you added what she did prior to 2009, accounted for the missing years plus added up all the different uploads from Warner and fans.

R13 Beyoncé just topped the Bilkboard Top 100 last week and Lemonade and Beyoncé albums both sold well in this digital age. Stop playing. But she is more of a touring artist because album sales are primarily stagnant with Spotify. Adele hit at the last years before Spotify took over everything and her musings crossed aged brackets.

R255 What song just "topped" the Hot 100? Show us.

I don’t know why some people are shocked that Madonna is the only female in the top 10. Males singers can attract male and female fans. Female singers usually have a much smaller male fan base (outside of the gays). It’s simple marketing. A straight guy isn’t going to pay for a female diva. He will attend a concert full of male diva’s (The Beatles) or buy their album

R255. She does well with albums but her streaming numbers are suspect thanks to Jay-Z fuckery. Soooo.......

R256 Male rock singers have a distinct advantage touring wise as well. Females have a much smaller base to choose from. I think Madonna had a good straight male fan base early on, as did Beyonce, but they quickly turned on her with the interracial and gay stuff.

Very impressive numbers for Madonna on this chart. I still remember buying her debut album when it first came out. I knew she'd be big, but I never thought she would become the biggest-selling female artist of all time. She proved many people wrong.

R258 actually Beyoncé has never gone into the gay route. She has a ton of gay fans, but she doesn’t pander to gays like Madonna. Her success is due to growth from Destiny’s Child. Then with Single Ladies came out, white women and gays joined the bandwagon. I’m not sure what the interracial stuff is supposed to mean? Beyoncé has features a white counterpart on only a handful of videos. She’s never kissing up on them or anything. She actually is an interesting study on a pop star(?) that can play sexy, while married and puts her husband into a lot of videos.

Madonna did pander to the gays and it worked really well for her. I’m still confused why men would have an issue with some interracial thing, whatever you are referring to.

R260 Pander to gays? Yes because it was so fucking popular to do so back then. Fucking idiot.

Madonna opened the door for women to dominate music. Record companies finally saw women could actually sell a lot. Radio stations always gave more play to male dominated acts.

Beyonce is not an artist. She's a focus group tested pop tart that was pushed out in front by her mommy and daddy. Like Britney Spears.

[quote][R13] Beyoncé just topped the Bilkboard Top 100 last week and Lemonade and Beyoncé albums both sold well in this digital age.

Nope, it went #2, and it was Megan Thee Stallion's song. Beyonce was only a feature on a last-minute remix of the song. The only way that Beyonce can make it into the Top 10 nowadays is by jumping on a remix of a relevant artist's song. She certainly can't do it anymore with her own songs. Lemonade didn't sell half of what she claimed it did, because she and Jay Z got in a lot of trouble for inflating streams through Tidal.

r261 how does it not make is pandering? Doesn't matter when it became common, she still did it just like Madonna tried many other things to be edgy. Doesn't mean someone isn't a fan or appreciate her efforts. You Madonna fans are just as testy as the Janet and Gaga stans.

R265 You don't have to be a Madonna "fan" to dispute that stupid notion. She lost fans due to her displaying gays so prominently. By your definition everybody panders to one group or another. Rock bands pander to white males. R&B singers pander to blacks. Country singers pander to white conservative males.

Well, they actually do r266 lol. But R&B from the UK panders to whites as well. I'm still wondering why you have to go to personal attacks, calling things stupid. We were having a really nice discussion.

Because this thread has been derailed by janet/gaga loons always flipping out with any positive news about Madonna. We were all talking stats.

Someone call the WAHambulance for r268

R269 Nah, I called the Triggered Patrol on you, though.

I would like to extend special mention for Miss Diana Ross, who never gets listed on these best selling lists because of Berry Gordy's ALLEGED (side-eye) shady dealings with RIAA whereby he ALLEGEDLY (another side-eye) and regularly reported sales figures significantly and substantially below actual figures in order to line his own pockets. He, who actually had the nerve to state at least once and likely more "Motown never made any money on Diane because we were always promoting her."

Diana was a singles artist. Her albums were rarely big sellers. She was the Rihanna of her day in that regard.

Did she really only have $200k in the bank in 1981? Was she setting her cash on fire?

Diana to Smokey Robinson while looking at her paltry bank balance: "Smoke, can you believe what Berry has done to me?"

She was "working rich," R273. This is why she left Motown for RCA in 1981. That $20 million contract set a record as the highest recording contract up to that time.

Is there a similar list just for singles/45s?

Is there a similar list just for singles/45s?

r275 she can blame Berry, but if all she had was $200k then she was overspending as well. Glad she left, got a record deal fro RCA, then married a billionaire so that her little nest egg could grow and grow until the divorce. Diana's career was a mess, but she personally profited from her post Motown days.

I bet Tracee Ellis Ross has a lot more money than her mother ever did.

Madonna's youtube average is more impressive because none of the songs in her top 10 are new videos, they are all from 80s, 90s or 00s. LMFAO at Janet's numbers. So much for being a huge star. Apparently, nobody is listening to her music.

And apparently nobody is listening to Christina Aguilera's music either lol. Britney gets more than 2x the daily views she does.

[quote] LMFAO at Janet's numbers. So much for being a huge star. Apparently, nobody is listening to her music.

It is actually amazing how her career crashed. She was a huge star for quite a while, sometimes it seemed she was bigger than Michael. I wasn't a fan of her later R'n'B stuff and don't really remember how well they charted but she generally was one of those artists almost always getting heavy rotation on MTV. And then the nipplegate happened. She probably thought if Madonna can repeatedly show tits and stay relevant and on top showing a little bit of nipple is practically nothing. Oh boy.

Did this chart take into consideration the dozens of records Janet sold on the State Fair circuit?

There must be some mistake. I don't see Grammy-winner Neely O'Hara on this list.

R280 - Youtube views, sure, let’s take a look at their newest video releases

Janet - made for now / 71 million views

Madonna - Medellin / 46 million views + Crave / 5.9 million views (ouch) + Dark Ballet / 4.2 million views (yikes) + God Contol / 7.1 million views + Batuka / 3.9 million views (holy hell!) = 67.1 million views

Patiently waiting for r280 to move the goal post

[quote]keeps trying to lump Madonna in with real artists that had and still have a much bigger cultural impact. Sure, she sold a lot of horrendous music decades ago, now she’s all but forgotten

Cultural impact of Madonna....

[quote] let’s take a look at their newest video releases

Dumbass, you just DID move the goalposts. Madonna has over 14 videos that have more daily views than anything in Janet's entire catalogue. La Isla Bonita alone gets TEN TIMES more daily views than Janet's most watched daily video. So what if Madonna's most recent release bombed? She's fucking 60. Let's see how well Janet does when she hits that age. Obviously, it wont' be good since nobody is even watching her so-called "classic" videos NOW.

"Janet - made for now / 71 million views"

That's because of Daddy Yankee. How do we know it's because of Daddy Yankee? Because if you look at his other videos, he has several that are over a BILLION views while Janet's other view counts are pitiful. Janet's videos with the most views are "Made for Now" and "Scream" with her brother, but all the rest of her videos are under 25 million views. Janet brought Daddy Yankee's video count down.

Meanwhile, Madonna has multiple videos with over 100 million views. And that's after WB wiped out her initial counts when they pulled her first set of videos off youtube. How's that for goalposts?

R288, we shouldn't expect Janbot/Gagabot to use actual facts. Anyone with common sense knows that a bigger indicator of an artist's longevity is if they have older videos with hundreds of millions of views. Anyone can have a hit in the moment, but it's much harder to sustain a hit decades later.

r284, I'm not seeing Lola Heatherton either.

I'm surprised Michael Jackson isn't at #1. According to ths timeline linked below, MJ was on top for many years. How did the Beatles leap frog past him?

It's based off of yearly sales so it's not very relevant. The Beatles have always been number one, at least since the end of the 60s.

Wow, Madonna was number one during different time in the 80 and early 90s and managed to stay in the top 10 until 2005 or so. That's extremely impressive.

I knew Drake dominated this past decade, but it was crazy to see just how much. Also Eminem in the early 2000s. Yet Drake is not as famous and ubiquitous as Michael and Madonna were in the 80s and 90s--just goes to show how much that kind of superstardom just doesn't happen anymore.

The level of fame and cultural impact that Michael Jackson and Madonna had does not exist anymore, we will never see that again. Nobody is that famous or influential these days.

R295 I think you are right about that.

Social media influencers are the new celebrities, and they are so easily accessible and ubiquitous that there is no aura or mystique.

Back in the day, everybody listened to the same radio stations, watched the same television networks and read the same magazines. The internet and social media changed all that, everything is niche now.

Yeah, if everyone's listening to their own iTunes instead of Top 40 radio, it's impossible for a single act to dominate the musical scene the way Michael Jackson or the Beatles did in their day.

It makes me feel a little bit sorry for today's musicians, they aren't going to be playing stadiums in their old age the way the Rolling Stones are. None of them will ever have that kind of mass audience, and that's due to changes in technology and the music industry. They just came too late for that kind of fame.

True r299. Today's acts will not have any staying power. Nobody in 40 or 50 years will know who Drake or Billie Eilsh were, unlike The Rolling Stones or Fleetwood Mac, for example.

IDK r299 I think Beyonce has found a way to be a strong touring artist.Of course she's not a 20 year old anymore so she could be the last of the line. I see people like Shawn Mendes and Ariana filling up stadiums. I think people will still see live shows in order to have that connection with their idol. Justing Bieber is another one that can do massive tours. He throws out an album and can do a wold tour at the flip of a switch. The game has considerably changed, but touring remains the bread and butter for artists. I think now it's even easier to make it big because there are so many avenues for grassroots growth or for a song to catch fire. Hitting the top of the Billboard 100 won't matter as much as 2-3 good weeks of streaming on social media and music sites. That said, tours aren't going to be as profitable as they were in MJ, Madonna, and for rock bands because of the increased competition.

Now is a great time for more unheard of artist to get their time to shine, without large record labels and radio DJs deciding who should be popular. Things are still be manipulated, but I think things are slightly more democratic in the music industry.

BTS! BTS!

[quote] LMFAO at Janet's numbers. So much for being a huge star. Apparently, nobody is listening to her music.

[quote] Did this chart take into consideration the dozens of records Janet sold on the State Fair circuit?

This list is a list of the 100 BEST SELLING Artists of ALL TIME. Lots and lots of people are listening to everyone on the list. That's literally why they are on the list. Janet is in the middle of the list. The Jackson Family has the distinction of 3 entries on the list. Michael is number 2. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons are number 74. Together they've sold almost a 1/2 billion records. That's pretty fucking incredible. Good for them! And good for Madonna and all of the other artists on the list.

[quote] That said, tours aren't going to be as profitable as they were in MJ, Madonna, and for rock bands because of the increased competition.

Tours today are a lot more profitable than they were during the 70s-90s. The top touring acts like Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Shawn Mendes, Beyonce are making a fortune from tours. Kids today have so much more money to spend on concert merch than they did back in the 70s and 80s. These top acts are making $50-100 million just from merch sales, and that doesn't even count ticket sales, meet & greets and concession sales.

The music superstars of today are all worth over $100 million. Even Shawn Mendes is probably worth more than Michael Jackson was at the time of his death.

[quote]Diana was a singles artist. Her albums were rarely big sellers.

Bullshit. The Diana album alone sold 10 million worldwide. The Supremes were one of biggest acts of the 60's all over the world. They were selling a lot of records. Billboard and Guinness book of records declared Diana Ross to the biggest selling female artist of all time.

For years Motown refused to participate in the RIAA system, so there sales were never officially reported until the late 70's. And even then, certifications weren't given out as they should have been.

In fact, most of the acts from the 60's had similar situations . Unless you were the cream of the crop.

That's why these lists need to be taken with a grain of salt. Madonna, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, and that Mouskouri woman have all claimed to be the biggest selling female artists in music.

r304 no one said that current music acts aren't making bank on tours, just that they probably won't have longevity. In 40 years Shawn Mendes, Ariana Grande etc. won't be selling out huge venues like the Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna and Fleetwood Mac still do. It's likely they'll have disappeared from the pop culture landscape.

[quote]Yet Drake is not as famous and ubiquitous as Michael and Madonna were in the 80s and 90s--just goes to show how much that kind of superstardom just doesn't happen anymore.

The thing about superstardom back then was even your grandparents knew who Prince, Michael Jackson and Madonna were, and probably could name a few of their songs. That's how famous "famous" people were back then, even older people who were two or three generations removed from the current pop culture were aware of what was going on. Today, nobody's grandparents have any idea who Drake or Shawn Mendes are.

R303, you missed my point. NOBODY is listening to Janet's music anymore. Her catalogue gets about 285,000 views a day. Madonna's gets almost 10x as many daily views. Which is really shocking because Janet was once considered a huge star up through the early 00s. It's like Les Moonves got his wish.

r305 Anybody can claim to the this or that. Madonna never claimed to be the biggest selling. She is the biggest selling female of all time. By far. Mariah claimed that for PR. She's not even #2, Celine is.

Janet Jackson hasn't been relevant in 20 years. I also don't remember her being a big deal with gay guys like Madonna, Whitney and Donna Summer are/were.

I'm not a Janet fan, but she's had a lot more success and longevity than Donna Summer. Summer was over and irrelevant after a few short years.

R310 was talking about her appeal to gays, not her longevity.

They had a brief affair in 1982.

Wasn't Freddie a bit too hairy and, you know, grown up for Michael?

I don't think MJ wanted to be a cum whore like Freddy.

R313, The talent in that photo is mind-blowing.

I can't believe that Freddie smoked. Wasn't he afraid of damaging his gorgeous voice? I guess it was the era of drugs, sex and rock 'n roll.

R313, who do you think was the top?

HAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!! Yeah, the thought of either of them topping...

King and Queen

r316 tons of famous singers have been smokers.

Sarah Vaughan smoked until her death of lung cancer. The voice propelled by the breathing remained phenomenally intact all the years of her life.

Frank Sinatra smoked, Aretha Franklin too. Dionne STILL smokes at almost 80 years old.

Marianne Faithful sounded so much better after she did all those drugs (not joking). Before, her voice sounded bland and forgettable. You can't forget Marianne's voice on "Why'd Ya Do It" once you hear it.

Same with Joni, she sounds better on her 90s version of "Both Sides Now" than in the original.