Drag Race Season XVII: Part Trois

I like Jackie but she needed to go.

I volunteer for another video!!!!

p.s. Crystal should've won this challenge

OP Thanks darl.

Heidi FtW.

It has to said.....the legs on Heidi's superfan needed to be hidden.......

Crystal was great.

Heidi is entertaining but she needs to hire make up artistes. her work is TRAGIC.

how very dare you, R4

Jackie is the most handsome boy. I hope she sticks around.

Heidi is the best but will get All Star’d

I hated the superfan and had to ff most of last night. Ugh.

I actually thought BRITA was super hot, but I have a thing for chubby burly men. I was mocked frequently by a friend because of this fact.

BIG legs!

Sherry isn't winning anything. How is she getting by?

I have a bad feeling Heidi is the next one copped.

* Chopped

Ha!

Heidi has charm to spare, but she lacks polish. Plus Ru has had to practically take her by the hand and lead her in the direction of anything remotely clever - not really fair to the other contestants. Heidi should have been sent home immediately for that tragic frock she put her super fan in.

I see what you're saying r15. I agree, I guess. Jackie's weird vaudevillian dance thing was horrible! That alone was enough to kick her off, IMO. Kill the Lights by Alex Newell is one of the best dance songs in the last 10 years and Jackie turned it into something really random. I was waiting for the giant hook to come out from side stage and take her away.

I would have been fine if Crystal had won but I love Jaida to death and with Crystal's slow start puts her on the list for All Stars. She really has hit her stride though.

Is it me or is there something in Sherry's eyes that makes her look demented? I know we all know about her predatory behavior but keep in mind we actually haven't seen much of her because they were editing her out. Now that I'm getting a good look at her there is something very creepy about her imo.

I'm having a difficult time understanding how Heidi did such a good job on her make over sister but showed up with the same tragic make up job on her own face. How did that fucking happen? I love Heidi too but I think it makes sense to send her packing next unless Jackie or Crystal really fuck up next week.

It was chivalrous of Heidi to not not say, my drag kid is fat so I had no choice. She missed a golden opportunity with that gap, but her model had one on the side already. I really liked that that the super fans were doled out in a nice way. I love Milwaukee queens. Well, except Jeffrey Dahmer.

I have to say I was stunned when I saw Heidi's drag kid's legs. I was NOT ready.

She's not that big at the top so seeing how much weight has gone to her legs was shocking.

Sherry's eyes? No. They're fine. Honestly I don't think of her much.

R18 They have access to an entire wall of fabric, Heidi could have done SOMETHING better.

Sherry did an amazing job on her drag sister. They looked freakishly the same and that woman looks nothing like Sherry PIe.

Last night's show was pretty damn good. Not Gigi Goode though.She arguably should have been in the bottom. Two swing coats that her mom made didn't exactly make her makeover a winner. If ever Crystal was going to win a challenge, it was last night. I could see it both ways.

Miss Jaida Essence Hall earned that win honey - but I'm not sure that Jackie deserved to be in the bottom two. And for sure, she didn't deserve the double SAVE!! Jackie's goofball take on a great disco song was not that entertainting. Heidi won that lip synch. Fuckery.

Bob is very unkind to Heidi's wig and makeup - and that ugly fashionless bitch BOB would know what money can do for you. Nothing if you look like him. Heidi still looked like a disco queen. A busted one, but the vibe was alright. I love her. Heidi doesn't need to be told how to be clever - she's the wittiest one there. Just not fashionably witty like Ms. Goode or Sherry Pie.

Jujubee is gorgeous with new teefs and a little All Stars lip plump Gloss. And she stopped doing drugs.

Im with the queen who said Gigi made a beautiful girl into a beautiful girl. The judges were falling over to praise them for really no reason.

Jackie's LS had NOTHING to do with the song. Nothing! She should have gone.

I really thought Gigi's Mom was going to win season 12 but Jaida might pull it off. That would be awesome!

I usually hate the family resemblance challenges, but these queens nailed it as a whole better than any previous cast.

Heidi and Jackie deserved to be in the bottom two compared to the others, and Heidi deserved to go home. But I love her, so I'm glad she was saved. She'll be great on All Stars.

I lived for Crystal this episode. Personality wise, I really like her, and I loved the looks she and the superfan wore.

I loved Sherry and Janet the Planet as the waitresses. I hate that Sherry did what she did to those guys in the past, because she is very talented.

Jaida and her superfan looked fantastic. I was worried the girl would flop, but she looked stunning. Jaida really did earn that win, even if I'd have preferred Crystal to win.

Gigi was pretty and the clothes her mother made her are good. Nothing exciting from her corner.

Oh. And people making fun of that girl's legs should just stop. It's not cute or funny. It's just cunty, and not in a good way. It's toxic waste.

r26 , people can write what they want.

R27 can you elaborate?

Why, r28? Isn't it clear to you?

R29 Forget it.

So much for discussion.

A big fat FF to you R29

Eff Eff off!

I don't like to see obvious cheap shit on Datalounge. She mentioned being bullied, and you could tell it was real. She said more than once that her legs had not been seen since 1998. And she showed them. That's not a weight problem and it requires no mean commentary. She showed herself. There's nothing Heidi could do but cheer her on.

Notice the fake out with Jaida and her girl though. She COULD NOT walk in those silver pumps. But she could walk just fine in the ankle strap higher heel numbers that she ended up wearing. Michelle was right about that facelift makeup! Jaida painted a bone structure on his girl that didn't exist and she looked like a DRAG QUEEN. Not a girl but a DRAG QUEEN. It was quite brilliant and the clothes and hair were fantastic too. Jaida makes ALL her own costumes. All of them. She better win this season. It's an excellent season, but Gigi is a fucking bore. Jaida Essence Hall please. More.

r26/ r30 you are tell people not to post things you deem toxic yet you post in the "Debra Messing really saying" thread "i'm a psycho bitch!" That's not toxic? Point being stop policing people. That's all.

r30 /31 I've already done it to you, dear. You don't own this place, hon.

I was not making fun of that girl r26.

I was truly surprised I was not expecting what I saw. It's not funny, it's just what I experienced.

So many people have a problem with the way they look, we hear about it quite a bit in this looks obsessed society we live in. Most of the time what people dislike about themselves isn't as bad as they think it is. Given that, I expected to see something else.

How are they comparable at all R33? Who cares what someone said about Debra Messing. Why would you need to make fun of the woman with the extremely heavy legs? There's nothing funny about it. Did she go on Drag Race to have people on the internet make fun of her? She had been bullied her whole life for the appearance and weight in her legs. Why would you defend your right to do more? She has a medical problem that registers as a deformity. Normal decent people don't make fun of that. Smarten up.

[Quote] Who cares what someone said about Debra Messing.

Who cares about a stranger with big legs? You don't know Debra? So why say it? You just want to win the fight that's all.

r36, this is the DL not the SJWDL, hon.

Thank you for talking sense R36

Couldja both just shut the fuck up? I mean, couldja?

I'm good. No problem, r40.

I had a feeling that Heidi would struggle this week, but the fact that she didn't even try making an outfit for her girl? SMH. She does join an elite group of having survived three lip syncs, however. And Jackie is lucky to still be around.

Gigi continues to coast, despite her stan in the previous thread insisting she'd "come back in force" this week, which she most certainly did NOT. A very pedestrian look saved by a quirky performance.

We'll never know since all her scenes hit the cutting room floor, but did Sherry have that outfit ready for her drag sister or did she make it? Complete with lettering on the skirt?

Jaida kills it again, and I hope that continues.

R42 I bet Sherry had that with her in her luggage. They all know there's a family resemblance challenge coming.

That was the dullest episode in a long, long time. Hopefully, they don’t repeat it next season.

The performance that Jackie did was sort of scary. But I guess it was different enough that Ru couldn’t see getting rid of her.

I love Heidi but she’ll probably end up going home soon. She’s inconsistent with her make up from week to week, which is weird.

Gigi is coasting on her outfits. She was on fire early on but now she’s sort of boring.

I’m thinking Jaida is gonna take it all.

How the fuck are they going to do the finale?

I agree, R45. Jaida for the win. I absolutely love Heidi but I agree she probably won't make top 4. She'll be very popular either way. I am going to predict the top 2 as Gigi and Jaida.

Last weeks lip-sync from Jackie was great but I did not enjoy this one. It was crazed. Sometimes quirky works but not this time.

KOT BeBe is fucking useless on Dragnificent. Have no idea why the talent less heifer was cast.

I have no idea what you're talking about r48...Bebe's new Afrobeat song "Banjo" is fire! I can't stop playing this damn song. One of the best songs released by a Rupaul Drag Race winner.

I can't tell if r49 is being funny or not.

she must be R49. the only drag racer that makes decent music is Trixie.

oops, I meant R50 up there

R50 I thought the same! It has to be a joke! And I am assuming that R51 comment about Trixie having good music is a joke too

R53 I said decent, not good.

I couldn't help it, I kept hearing this in my head when Heidi and her superfan were on the runway.

R54 Okay! I think there are a few others with better voices than Trixie. There are a couple of her songs I can tolerate on occasion.

Alaska actually has a decent voice but she rarely uses it, she always does an in character voice - her music is terrible.

R56, well, voices is another discussion. But Tixie, like you say, has some of the most tolerable songs. Moving Parts and Soldier are nice country ballads.

Jaida's partner reminded me of India Ferreh when she was on the runway.

Jackie Cox is running on fumes.

With that said, I'd love to fuck his hot, moist, hairy Person hole.

Did Heidi pressure her superfan to show off her legs? It was clear that she did not want to and understandably so. If she was going to make her show them off then she should have had her wear vertical striped tights or something, or perhaps a longer more flattering dress. Something to take the attention away from that area. I felt bad for the girl, I mean, why put emphasis on her insecurities? And the shoddy makeup and hair didn't help either.

Heidi's explanation about her not having enough time because she was too busy getting to know her superfan was a lousy excuse I'm glad Rupaul called her out on that. As much as I like Heidi, c'mon now, you're down to the final six and your makeup is still terrible.

We're down to the final six and Jackie Cox still goes on the runway with a beard. His makeup skills are terrible, his wig styling is not good and the outfits he made were very bad. He was lucky he had such a sassy sister to makeover. Then that dumb ass lip synch. That was a choice. Bitch shoulda gone home and you know all those queens thought so too. They want to get rid of Heidi at this point, but they are miscalculating. The audience doesn't love Jackie, Crystal or Gigi that much.

Heidi probably had a pre-made outfit already picked out like everyone else but got stuck with the fat chick so had to improvise. Obviously she's not gonna admit that on stage in front of the crying insecure fat girl.

R62 I love Heidi, but if she had a bit of foresight when planning for the makeover challenge she could have had an outfit that would be adjustable to the size/shape of her makeover partner. Gigi's mom and Sherry Pie were smart with their outfits, they probably would have worked on a large partner. You never know who you're going to get paired with (little people!!), so why not bring a garment that's flexible?

[quote]That was the dullest episode in a long, long time. Hopefully, they don’t repeat it next season.

The makeover shows are always the worst. I guess Ru does them to appeal to his straight female viewers.

Gay viewers are not interested in watching some fat frau find her inner drag queen.

R64 you're spewing nonsense, the makeover episode doesn't always involve fraus. season 9 had the crew and most of them were delicious men.

What bothers me the most about Jackie's face is that she uses part of her real brows instead of painting them on higher like all the other queens do. In addition to the beard, they make his face look very... squished? His makeup lacks the larger than life fantasy of the other queens.

The problem with the look Heidi had for her fan was that it had no thematic relation to what Heidi was wearing. Blaming her fans size is weak. Not like Sherry planned on being paired with a giant.

[quote]his hot, moist, hairy [bold]Person[/bold] hole

😅

Jackie looks like Indira Gandhi. All the time.

I know this quesrion is probably been asked before on one of the previous threads, but I'm a newbie (damn quarantine!) and have to ask: what is the production schedule like for this show? For an episode, how many actual days to they have to do all this stuff? A season of 14 episodes takes how many weeks to film?

The Heidi "not having time" piqued my interest in the calendar

TIA

dammit...question

R70. Each episode usually takes 2 days to film. Occasionally when the episode includes a complex challenge - like a musical production where they have to write, learn, and record lyrics, learn choreography , rehearse and perform, they will have an extra day or two built into the schedule. I have heard the production schedule is usually a month of filming for a season

The little dollop of Daisy was so friggin cute. She’s adorable.

Why don’t they show any of the costume preparation?

I’d love to meet GiGi’s Mom.

A good ol’ fashioned FRAUDOWN. That’s what we need! 🙄

I miss the dyke bitches of Season 1 or the mactors of Season 3. But Drag Race has to appeal to its new, true audience: the frau. All the Jackie Cox hijab defenders make sense.

The legend of Sherry Pie rises. ⏫ 🥧

Jaida is still my 2nd fave.

I STILL BELIEVE IN YOU GIGI GOODE

And Jackie Cox still sucks. “Gilda Radner”?!?! You take that back at once, Michelle Visage!

I think there is also a large young audience for Drag Race now. So fraus and their children?

R76 the audience seems to be 1) middle aged straight moms and their teen daughters 2) LGBTQ+++ youth, 3) lesbians of all ages 4) a few gay men.

I'd watch the A Few Gay Men remake

I guess that makes sense r77 but I didn't expect that women would be so big an audience for drag. But listening to Janet the Planet and other women talk about all the bullshit they go through, watching these queens actually celebrating all the things women are hated for must feel liberating.

It's not ideal for us but if all those women and all their daughters gay or straight are allies for our community I say "Come on in." Maybe so of them will bring their sons along as well

have you ever watched a video of a live performance R79? the front row is always a frumpy Frau with an outfit very much like the one worn by Heidi's makeover victim

It depends where they perform too for live audiences. Tours tend to skew women and younger, if they perform in gay clubs and bars there are more gay men and fewer women and a slightly older crowd. The venue makes a difference.

The female makeovers didn't bother me at all. Yes they were big fans but they were mostly pretty cool women who articulated their loved of drag well. Times have changed and whether we like it or not, Drag Race has a huge straight fan base. These women were much more realised and aware than teenage girls and gender confused young men. Besides, almost all of the makeover challenges have been on men or other Drag Queens. The one where they had to make over OLD men - that dude who claimed to save Judy Garland and the old guy who was so frail that he had to be carried down the runway.....were much worse. Of course we love the jock challenge - but they were actors, not jocks. The crew makeovers were well done and great fun as were the conjoined twin challenge of Season 7 when Pearl made Trixie attractive and Violet made Max gorgeous. I'm not Katya's big fan, but she and Mrs. Kasha Davis were great as old slot machine whores too.

Season 12 is probably the best one in 5 years. Anyone who thinks that Bob's season was great - forgets how bad it was. Season 9 had some great queens, but a curious winner. Sasha, Aquaria, Yvie, Monet X Change. Who cares? Manilla, Bendala, Kennedy, Shangela and Trinity the Tuck are the only queens of interest in the last years and they ALL were on their second run. I like Vangie and Eureka....for about 5 minutes.

This week's makeover was one of the better ones of all the season. The workroom convo seemed a bit more genuine when Jackie wasn't praying to Allah and the women were thrilled to be there. Why do gay men obsessed with Drag Queens in a mass marketed competition reality show have a problem with female fans of Drag?

I suspect its' Just that same nutter here who hates all the black queens and insists on his right to mock that poor woman's huge legs. Some mean old white men whose time has past.

Nice to see the fanbase cheering on Jaida this season - though they love Gigi too. A bit of Crystal. Lets' see how it shakes out.

I loved Janet the Planet. I really wish they would show us a bit more of Sherry Pie though. Creep.

The Read U Wrote U Quarantine version is legendary. loved it! Detox wow lol

At this point, they should let Sherry Pie's original edits air. It's only 3 episodes left and it continues to drive an open ended narrative that she does SO well with zero context.

R83. Detox had work done on her face and hadn't yet recovered so she couldn't wear make-up. It was an interesting alternate choice!

I like Trixie's singing, primarily her early country phase, I'm not as into the Southern California phase she is in love with right now. My favorite Drag Race singer by far is Adore.

Many of these queens are really going to struggle financially if this fucking virus is stll keeping big venues from opening much longer. Some established queens are already starvin' Marvins. Not everyone has Bianca del Rio money.

The minute I saw the frau superfans, I knew it would be a bad episode. To be honest I was surprised that none of them mentioned fibromyalgia and other "hysterias".

"I do not have enough spoons for this experience"

For the next makeover challenge they should have them do hyper-masculine, hairy bodybuilder-esque men (gay or straight) as that's something they have never done and never shown on Drag Race (I think Kameron Michaels has probably been the 'most' muscular they have ever had and he wasn't what I would describe as 'built' at all. I think it would be an interesting challenge, how to give someone who is an archetypal 'man' as feminine an illusion as possible. Plus eye candy.

I was ready for Jackie Cox to go tbh, not really impressed with anything she's done. I think it's a pretty open competition between the others though (obviously Sherry is excluded - presume she makes top 4 so whoever is eliminated last is going to end up being part of the top 4 by default?)

[quote] “Gilda Radner”?!?! You take that back at once, Michelle Visage!

Not only was that giving Jackie too much credit..it wasn't even that apt. That was more Andrea-Martin-as-Kate-Bush realness.

Jackie is dead weight and she should’ve gone home. But if it means we get another week of Heidi, then whatever.

R89 The pit crew would be perfect for that challenge. both present crew and crew of yore.

Using superfans was pretty endearing and none of them were too annoying or overly hyper. As people have pointed out, if they were male superfans we would have gotten a workroom full of Frankie Grandes and Nicos so just be thankful that never happened.

Most of the attendees at Drag Con are straight females.

Also, most of the commenters on the subreddit are from straight — sorry “queer” — teenage girls. You can tell because conversations are always interrupted to include at least one diatribe about how bad the day they’re having is.

R95. They did a demographics survey on the subreddit a year or so ago and most of the sub was young, white, gay men. I was pretty surprised - could just be that is who answered the survey.

R96. Possibly. I've been to a few shows and there were a few men there but there were far more women and a lot of them were teenagers. Maybe there are more men who watch but do not frequent the shows? Not sure if it is just the shows I have been to.

R97. I agree. I commented on this upthread. I think TV viewership, reddit subscribers, tour and venue and convention attendees, and club performance attendees all probably attract somewhat different audiences.

Yes. They attract different audiences and ages and gender identities. During isolation - why not shower with The Vixen? Aka TonyUntucked. Good clean fun. He's very cute.

Vixen is average. Okay.

The Vixen was always a very cute guy. His dick is average.

The Vixen seems tiresome.

Am I the only who finds Gigi annoying?

Krystal was robbed again. This is the second main challenge where she was clearly the winner.

I wonder if the producers regret not giving the win to certain contestants like Crystal once they see how well-liked they are. I agree her makeover was miles above anyone else, the second best was Sherry Pie’s. Jaida was middling.

The Vixen has a gross face and body, but that dick is nice.

The Vixen seems tiresome.

Someone remind me why Sherry Pie is cancelled but Brita continues on...

what did Brita do now?

Fat?

R109 Hiding from the person who wants to push her in front of a subway train because she DISAPPOINTED New York City!!!

R109, apparently she blew someone in their sleep but it’s all still hearsay.

All Stars 5 contestants have been released!

India Ferrah? Really? 👀 I guess someone has to go home first.

Mariah Balenciaga is a nice surprise. She’s a queen that’s grown on me since season 3.

It's a pretty disappointing cast and a lot of those bitches are looking old and FAT. Alexis Matteo was always a man, now an old fat man. India - nobody missed you. I like Mariah and Mayhem but they just don't have much ish beyond the runway. They are beloved queens by other queens though - which helps a lot in All Stars. The little boy, Ongina, from Season one - they waited way too long to bring him back. He's just a chubby bald man now. The illusion is gone. Ongina did some great numbers in his time.

It's a two woman race. Shea vs. Jujubee.

At least Mizz Cracker was self aware about her weight gain. Alexis looks...hefty.

It think Ongina was supposed to be on an earlier all stars season, but wasn’t able to be on it for some reason.

I’ll change my tune once this airs I’m sure, but I’m hoping that this will be more enjoyable than All Stars 4. I think with Alexis Mateo and Jujubee , it should be fun.

JuJu FTW.

glad to see Blair back - no way she can win - but she is entertaining. Definitely JuJu FTW

Shea or Juju FTW with Miz rounding out the top 3. I'm just hoping neither falls into the bottom 2/3 and gets Manila'd.

India Ferrah? Mayhem Miller? Whatever, will be shocked if they're not the first two to go.

Glad to see Ongina and Mariah return. I'm eager for a new round of dry one liners from Miss Balenciaga.

Shea looks amazing, I'm rooting for her or Juju.

I really like the All Stars cast. Not a dud in the bunch. Really looking forward to Jujubee and Mariah especially.

R122 Not a dud in the bunch? Nice try India Ferrah.

I want to fuck India.

Alexis Mateo the QUEEN of good untucked. Where is that clip where she makes fun of Raja’s crooked ass eye? I remember seeing her back in the S3 heyday and she said 3 things:

“Raja looks like a man.” “Carmen Carrera is not that pretty.” “And Michelle Visage is a FUCKING BITCH!”

Without old school untucked she loses 70% of her appeal. Now she’s just Vanjie’s drag mom to these new viewers. Blugh.

Mariah is WAY overdue. I hope she can live up to my high expectations. Juju and Ongina. 🥰 We need you to do the Filipinos proud after Fuck Em Sakura crying all over the place.

Shea Coulee is overrated and boring.

R125 I remember Alexis mocking Carmen Carerra's "weesh" nose in one episode and cracking up. I'm glad there are a lot of queens from earlier seasons on All Stars 5.

Here's the clip of Alexis joking about the "weesh" nose. 🤣

Hahahah I forgot that scene R127

Alexis Mateo was the best.

The commercial for AS5 just now said it's on VH1 ... I thought it was Showtime

I’d much rather watch India Ferrah than Silkie Ganash or one of those other terrible queens from the recent seasons

The problem now is that Drag Race is about drag race drag and not old school drag. The first seasons had queens who had learned drag in the clubs and been performing drag sans Drag Race influence. In recent seasons many of the queens only started doing drag because of Drag Race and their drag is designed to be successful on Drag Race - it is reality TV drag. It will be interesting to see if the queens from the early seasons can adapt to Drag Race drag.

The double save last week was bullshit.

R131 That's why I can't fully get behind someone like Gigi Goode. Her drag is way too calculated for my tastes.

Heidi is my all time favorite contestant on Drag Race. Things went down fair and square tonight and Crystal finally got a win. I'm not into Jackie Cox at all. Everything is so calculated and false and his drag sucks. Heidi and Jaida and Sherry Pie slayed the runway. I feel so bad that Miss Rona is stopping Heidi from capitalizing on her great popularity and success. It's true of all of them but the window is smaller for some of them. That boy is cute and charming funny as hell, good natured bitchy and pretty damn fine in drag. A STAR.

Jaida better bring this thing home, because NO one else deserves it. Gigi is not it.

Whoa! Gig's Mom just made it through this week.

Shame we lose Heidi for (presumably) one more week of charmless Jackie.

[Quote] Her drag is way too calculated for my tastes.

And Mommy is always there for the rescue. Just saying.

It’s a shame Jackie didn’t have a pair of glasses to put on that made her interesting.

Can't complain about the lipsync to 1999. It would have added something interesting if they chosen one of Prince's songs he recorded as his female alter-ego "Camille."

I usually never like the talent episodes, but this is maybe one of the best eps of Drag Race in a long time. So entertaining. Perfect runway looks from everyone on a simple theme. Jaida KILLED me with her lipsync. Heidi's performance will go down as one of the best ever, if not for the wrong reasons.

In agreement R134. I adore Heidi and I do hope once this has all blown over she gets to really do well for herself. I saw on the pre-drag race interview with Miz Cracker that she took out a big loan to get all her gowns, etc. I know they are doing digital shows at the moment and I am pretty sure she's got one on stageit soon. But yes, a lot of people are suffering financial issues too so it is a shitty time.

It has to be Jaida for the win.

[QUOTE] It has to be Jaida for the win.

Agreed. I used to be team Gigi but she's really shown her weaknesses and insecurities the past few weeks.

I would love if it were Crystal. It can really go any way this season. I don’t think Gigi will win. Too many weeks of not delivering. Jaida has a good shot.

The show was attacked for crowning white winners so they crowned Monet for All Stars. Then the show was attacked for crowning queens who wear expensive costumes so they will crown Crystal who wears thrift store stuff.

Sorry to lose Heidi. But it was a fair result.

I have not liked Jaida since the first episode and her shady behavior about the choreography.....and her UNTUCKED comments about not saying should would go last were just more of the same.

She did win the lip synch last night - and she never makes excuses when she fails in the challenges by blaming the judges or not having enough time or some other lame reason. Jaida does accept it when she goes wrong......but Heidi is unique and memorable. There are dozens of Jaidas out there in every drag town.....boring look/pageant queens.....nothing new there.

I liked Ross' comment that Jaida's story was probably hilarious when she was telling her friends about it on the phone.....and it might have been better if she had just told it instead of trying to act it out....

R144 they crowned the Oddly girl already

Oh my that was a long post....sorry....I must have thought I was Sherry Pie.

Wow. Jackie was packing those pants I. The workroom. Like no undies??

R144, that isn’t an accurate comparison. It’s unlikely that Crystal will win, but if she does, it’s because she’s never had to lip sync, has a charming personality, and unique fresh looks. It doesn’t matter if it’s thrift or designer. It’s all about the execution and how you wear it. Jaida and Gigi may have more wins, but their lows were pretty low. Crystal is a fan favorite and they could sell the win that way.

Monet is a completely different story. Her runways during All Stars were atrocious, her Snatch Game was embarrassing, and her win in the roast challenge was filled with jokes all of us have heard a million times before. No one watching the finale of that season thought she won for any reason other than affirmative action and to shut up the shrieking white girl fanbase who consider themselves cultural warriors.

R149 you destroyed Monet, but she deserves it. She WAS terrible on All Stars. I'll grant the boots and white runways-they were ok. But the rest were embarrassing. That pink panther disaster should've kicked her out. She's so underwhelming.

I don't know how Monet can even feel comfortable declaring herself to be an All Stars "winner", when we all know how and why it 'had to be' so. If you need to identify the one defining moment that proved the inmates (i.e. the wokester Twitterati fan base) were now running the asylum, it was that.

To me, she is and always will be a discount Bob.

Why do these queens, especially the young ones, ruin their faces with fillers and other cosmetic enhancements?

They backtracked on moving it to Showtime r129. It was clear Ru and the fans were not happy about it.

[quote]I'm eager for a new round of dry one liners from Miss Balenciaga.

I will always love The Shadeful Miss Mariah Paris Balenciaga Successful for writing CONGRATULATIONS RAJA on the mirror for her lipstick message.

I really love Crystal's scrappy and endearing oddball charm. She's a weirdo for sure, but it never comes across like she's trying too hard to be weird like Yvie did last season. I'm glad she wasn't eliminated early on, because she's hit a stride that I don't think anyone saw coming.

At this point, I suppose Jaida is the front runner, but I suspect that Sherry Pie would be sharing that mantle if he wasn't a lascivious creep who has subsequently been edited down to irrelevance. It makes you wonder, which queen has benefited from Sherry's excised airtime from most of the episodes, because I suspect Sherry would have sucked up more oxygen on this show if the charges against him had not come to light before this season aired.

Crystal is the Spongebob of drag.

R151, I almost feel bad for the production team because of this. They set out to make a campy reality competition show for gay men with a sense of humor. Now they’ve developed the most obnoxious fanbase in the world, aside from the Rick and Morty/Community douchebros. They are unbelievably entitled and throw a tantrum if the show doesn’t perfectly reflect their view on the world at that exact moment. It’s exhausting. At least they’re laughing all the way to the bank.

If the Sherry Pie incident happened in season three, they probably would have let the edit stay as it was and known that the viewership is intelligent enough to separate the art from the artist. Now we have a bizarre narrative where we have no context of how well she was actually doing or how everything played it because these delicate flowers completely fall apart at having to see someone they already cancelled existing and living in the world instead of being sent to Exile Island.

It’s pitiful and gotten to the point where I’m embarrassed to like the same show as these self-righteous imbeciles.

I enjoy Monet as a bald rubenesque gay guy with funky gallery docent glasses more than her drag persona. Monique, on the other hand, really clicks into who she’s supposed to be when she’s in drag - and given that she actually stepped up her execution when she came to AS4 (which Monet certainly did not), I’m surprised they didn’t crown her. I feel like the producers thought Latrice was going to have a better showing than she did?

I agree with Ru that this top 6 is strong. Season 12 has been a good cast, I think its been the strongest queens we have gotten in a while.

You are so right R157. I just saw on Twitter than Tyra Banks is apologizing now for being "problematic" on ANTM. What kind of world have we created? Where everyone spends their lives offended and triggered.

R159, I think it’s the best season and group of girls since S9. Possibly even better.

R152 I think some of them have identity and body dysmorphic issues and some of them feel this insane pressure to have a face / body that will best sell their drag.

R157, the thing that drives me crazy about all of this is that it operates under the pretext that the people who go psycho over “problematic” behavior are these bleeding heart advocates for the underdogs. But conditional empathy is not empathy at all. What about acknowledging that people are human and make mistakes? Where’s the compassion there? Their punishments for these “problematic” people are more extreme and fire-and-brimstone than any reasonable sense of justice — if you mess up or ever have in the past, it doesn’t matter if you’ve grown or learned your lesson. They will accept nothing less than you being completely socially isolated and lose any way of earning money.

It’s an insanely nihilistic worldview that is being promoted as progressive. If we can’t mature or cut each other some slack, what’s the point of even trying to better yourself?

It’s just insanely hypocritical, like Ellen telling everyone to be kind on her show and then going around getting waitresses fired for having chipped nail polish.

[quote]I feel like the producers thought Latrice was going to have a better showing than she did?

I think so too, which is why they had that bullshit queen vs queen lip sync challenge, which was a waste of time since it changed nothing aside from bringing the freshly eliminated Latrice back. I didn't watch the rest of AS4 after that episode. If they wanted her to return, why not just bring her back like they did Carmen & Kenya in S3/S4 instead of that entire song and dance?

Latrice was going to get eliminated yet again anyway; it was clear that she couldn't keep up with the younger queens and deliver. Like R131 pointed out, she was an old school queen trying to do reality TV drag against younger girls who were fully curated for Drag Race. It's an uncomfortable truth, but I think AS4 caused more damage than help for Latrice's image ("I'm the most beloved queen blah blah blah....").

[quote]Monique, on the other hand, really clicks into who she’s supposed to be when she’s in drag - and given that she actually stepped up her execution when she came to AS4 (which Monet certainly did not), I’m surprised they didn’t crown her.

When I read that Monet was chosen as co-winner with Trinity, I was surprised that she was chosen over Monique and Naomi. Monique had the better back story, and yes, from what I saw she had stepped up her drag since S10. And Naomi, ridiculous lips and all, had much stronger looks than the others. Plus, she was the one who had strategically eliminated Manila when she had the chance. Wasn't there a poll out there about AS4's top 4 and Monet came in last? I wasn't shocked about that.

Latrice on AS4 proved that coming back can go either way. All Stars can be great for your career if you’re someone like Tatianna from a pre-HD season who can expose their drag to a bigger audience and show their growth, or to a lesser extent, someone like Alaska to get crown that people felt they were robbed of.

But Latrice had astronomical pressure going in. She was probably the most universally liked queen of all time. No one had a bad word to say about her. I almost felt bad for her because if all I ever heard was glowing praise, I wouldn’t feel the need to elevate my drag to the same level of people who have way more to prove. It would also go to my head, which was definitely what happened to her and why she came across so poorly.

The same thing happened to Alaska. She lost all the humility that made her a fan favorite in season five. Of course she did well and won, but her career suffered. She still makes money touring, but the passion for her is long gone.

This is also what I think will happen with Shea Coulee on AS5. Although I personally don’t put her on the same level as Latrice and Alaska, the hype for her return and the love for her on Reddit is insane. If she doesn’t get the Latrice/Milk edit of This Bitch Thinks She’s Somebody, I’ll be very very surprised.

I hope JuJuBee watched AS4 and saw all the mistakes Latrice made.

R164, Monique was too shrill and had a tendency to be obnoxious. Also, her runway didn’t really have a noticeable upgrade. That banana clips look was something someone would get booted for in the third episode of a regular season.

And yes, Naomi had some great looks and her Adrenaline lip sync is iconic. But she was an imbecile with zero acting ability and only three words in her vocabulary: pose, strut, and fashion. Eliminating Manila only bit her in the ass because it made her look petty and turned her off to the judges. She was walking through the competition at that point and didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell at making Top Two, whether or not Manila was still there.

Out of the three, Monet did the best, but that was an embarrassingly low bar. We ended up with the worst top four in the show’s history and the producers obviously know that, which is why the elimination format has been completely revamped for All Stars 5. They’re not making the same mistake again.

I'm not a big fan of hers but Naomi did pretty well with her Wendy Williams in Snatch Dating Game.

We all know that Trinity wears that All Stars Crown alone. Except for Bendala. And Shangela. AS4 was TERRIBLE.

R168, I feel like people graded Naomi on a curve for that Snatch Game. Yes, she did well for someone no one expected to be able to form a coherent sentence. But when you think about great Snatch Game performances, I don’t think her Wendy Williams would crack the top twenty.

Gigi’s bit was hilarious, she just needed to focus more on fashion sins in the audience. Her punchline about Detroit was hysterical.

Can I throw out a weird theory. Tell me if you think it's full of shit or not.

I think some of the queens, like Ben and Shangela, and Latrice (at that level) were able to negotiate certain things about All Stars. They didn't want to win All Stars because they didn't want to be tied down to a WOW contract and have to share their money with WOW.

Basically, they go on All Stars, get some ratings for the show and get some extra exposure for their latest project or whatever and then peace out before they are contractually obligated to do anything. That way, both the queens and the show wins. I don't believe for one second that they didn't know Ben was leaving. And I don't think Shangela wanted to win. Latrice, I can go back on forth on. Notice how Adore did a few episodes and then walk away.

I don't think there is anything sinister going on, I just think that All Stars is more negotiated among WOW, the queens, agents and managers more than you might imagine.

Thoughts on that theory. I've had it for awhile.

That wouldn’t surprise me a bit, R171. There was also talks about Derrick negotiating her placing on season 7 beforehand.

I think Shangela did want to win. Yes, the contract with WOW is restrictive. But if you win Drag Race, your booking fees go way up in general and it’s a title that has some cache, as opposed to winning cycle 24 of The Voice.

The strange thing about her notoriously controversial loss is that everyone blames Trixie or Ru or the show, but no one ever blames the queens who voted her out of the top two. I always found that bizarre.

The one to blame was Shangela herself because she was apparently a bitch and unprofessional, and also always trying to control the narrative and play mind games and playing for the cameras and being disingenuous.

[quote]I think Ongina was supposed to be on an earlier all stars season, but wasn’t able to be on it for some reason.

I read she had been invited in the past but couldn't get time off from her day job. I'm glad she finally made it on—love my S1 queens.

They're also scrapping the "Lip Sync for Your Legacy" format for AS5.

Shangela didn't expect that there would be an 11th hour plot twist and that they'd bring in a Survivor-style jury who would determine the finalists' fates.

What's funny about the "shrieking white girl fanbase who consider themselves cultural warriors" (love that, R149!) is that they love Trixie Mattel and have no problem with her win. I like her too, but she was the third best performer of that season. A VERY distant third. She was the Snapple of AS3.

R171 I think this happens all the time. The established queens do not want to win. They are already making mid 6 figures and the last thing they want to do is to be tied down to WoW. Shangela for example filmed both A Star is Born and AS3 in the summer of 2017. No way would she want to give up promo or movie related work for a WoW contract. The WoW contracts are good for the queens who need visibility and have either fallen off the radar or were never really on it. Not for those who are already at the top of the list and making coin. Shangela also runs her own management group and has a ton of projects on the go. A WoW contract would be a nightmare for her.

Trixie’s part Native American tho.

R179, “diversity” to the Drag Race fandom just means black. It doesn’t count if you’re Asian, Hispanic, or Native American.

Trans is the only other acceptable alternative.

These girls make money. Trixie said that she cancelled $40K in gigs to film AS3. AS3 filmed mid July to mid August 2017. I am sure they don't pull that in every single month but that is what she was making pre-all stars. Trixie has done a great job of going commercial and mainstream and maximizing her success across the Drag Race fan base.

Trixie is very business-savvy. She's said that the real "drag race" starts when your season is over and you have to figure out how to monetize your RuGirl status.

Trixie definitely has the most crossover appeal of all the Drag Race girls other than Bianca. Yes, she underperformed on All Stars, but she’s a great advocate for the brand as a winner.

But on the same side of that coin, R180 a lot of the black queens say that there is a segment of the fanbase that is very racist and vocal about it. So I'm fascinated at how this one little show has brought together cultural warriors, racists, housewives and gay men. It's very strange. Have any black queens been able to breakthrough like Latrice and Bob... and now, I guess, Heidi?

Question: I can see that he's high style, high life all fashion and special. But is Miss Fame insane?.

R184. Shangela and Naomi are also both black and are as successful as Bob. Shea Coulee, Monet, and Yvie are all almost at a million followers on Instragram as well although I wouldn't say they are at Bob's level.

RuPaul is the black queen who broke through and became the most successful drag performer in history. There are definitely racists in the fandom. Some people write disgusting and vile things on the black queens’ social media. But here’s the thing: it’s few and far between. If you look at four hundred comments per social media post, only one or two of them will be outwardly racist. It makes sense that the queens would focus on it, because many people only remember the awful things said about them. So queens of color are vocal about it and they should be.

The problem is the reaction by the overwhelmingly white fanbase where RACISM! has become a dog whistle and a straw man of sorts. If you criticize an underperforming queen of color, it’s never that they’re underperforming. It’s that you’re a racist. It’s a generational issue too. They are in a hivemind where any controversial or contradictory opinions are shot down and they don’t have the skills to engage in any sort of debate. If you call someone a racist, it shuts down the conversation completely and allows you to have the appearance of being a victor.

They pick and choose their battles too. They have a great deal of contempt for gay men and are always saying slurs and disgusting things which they get away with, because they believe that if you’re a man and gay, your privilege overrides your ability to be victimized.

When something becomes a mainstream success, you have to deal with a mainstream audience. And this show has a tendency to attract mentally unstable people, so it’s not too surprising that they would have all sorts of contradictory opinions and hateful attitudes. There’s no logic in crazy.

I forgot about Shangela. (Sorry Shangela). I only follow 3 queens, Bianca, Shangela and Latrice on Twitter. The others, I don't really follow outside of this thread. So I'm not really sure what is happening on their social media. But it's good to know that the racism isn't as prevalent as I thought. It just seems the black queens do speak up about it quite a bit, so I figured that it was bigger than it was. However, you don't really see that a lot from Shangela and Latrice, but it sounds like the Vixen has made racism in drag her platform.

Shangela definitely wanted to win. She was rigged out because the producers saw the success of Trixie’s YouTube show with Katya and had predestined her for the win. She sucks on AS3.

ANYWAY

Why do these judges keep licking Jackie Cox’s asshole? She wasn’t fucking funny. Plenty of comedians make jokes about their immigrant parents with aplomb (Margaret Cho, Jokoy) and that’s the best she could do? “Oh we saw your HEART!”

My husband and I both go “UGH” and eye roll every time that ho starts up the waterworks. So over her.

This comedy special was incredibly bad. The only one who made me laugh was Gigi Goode. That line at the end about Detroit lol

Jaida was always my second pick for the win and now I’m pretty confident she’ll get it. But who cares? None of these girls are stars. Heidi is at least charming and fun as well as funny unlike some “HILARIOUS!!!” winners with shit makeup (BOB). Gigi is only 21(!!!) so she has nowhere to go but up after her amazing showing this season.

And I’m 100% convinced the only reason Crystal keeps getting the love she does on stage is because Ru is obsessed with her mullet.

[Quote] Now we have a bizarre narrative where we have no context of how well she was actually doing or how everything played it because these delicate flowers completely fall apart at having to see someone they already cancelled existing and living in the world instead of being sent to Exile Island.

Agree!

If Gigi wins that's fine. Most of the winners are never heard from again after the win. I'm fine with not seeing her.

It's a real bummer for Sherry.

R177 They also love and worship Katya - who is not only white but also problematic in so many ways that they overlook. I think Katya is as shocked as anyone that she is a favorite given her cult following seems to be many who find her mental illness and addition endearing.

Tyra Sanchez got racist hate from the time she won S2, even before social media was everywhere and an essential part of the fandom. Of course, she's been pretty toxic herself at times, but it's understandable.

R189, unfortunately the judges have a gun pointed at their head in regards to Jackie. The risk is very high that there will be thinkpieces written and Twitter hate campaigns organized if they critique her in any way that could be deliberately misconstrued as Islamaphobic. So she’ll get chance after chance and glowing praise for minor improvements. Jackie seems to know this too, which is why she keeps running to the well of her persecuted heritage any time she under delivers in a challenge.

I’m gonna be honest here. Heidi’s performance was a little trainwreck-y, but it was entertaining as hell. I think it will eventually be seen as iconic in the same way that Laganja’s comedy routine and Roxxxy’s Read U Wrote U verse became. I’ve watched it twice since it aired. There was an enjoyment factor there that was utterly lacking in Jackie’s umpteenth failed attempt at displaying any charisma or authenticity. But it doesn’t matter because she has an immunity idol in the form of that garish red, white, and blue hijab.

Jaida was bad, but I have trouble criticizing her in the circumstances she was in. She was sabotaged and Sherry sucked up whatever laughs were left in the room. Maybe it would’ve been just as bad if it aired earlier in the show, but I feel like she deserves the benefit of the doubt in this instance.

This should have been the week of the double save.

It seems to me that some (not all) black queens come on the show and it becomes apparent that they are basically only familiar with black culture and their particular form of drag (usually more conservative Southern style glamour drag, though not always) and they struggle in and end up resenting challenges that they feel like are rely on white cultural references. It’s basically a more subtle version of what happens to virtually all the Puerto Rican queens.

Black queens also unfairly exploited by the fanbase. Every one likes to show support for black queens publicly online — shades of “I have a black friend” — but it doesn’t always translate into ticket sales or something they can monetize well. Asia O’Hara learned this the hard way. All throughout her season, everyone was gushing on Reddit and Twitter about what a star she was and she was shocked when she found out she could only get bookings at half the price as the other top contenders in her season.

You could say this is systemic racism on the part of club promoters. But Bob is always booked. So is Shangela. And RuPaul is at such a height of superstardom that she doesn’t have to even perform live or get in drag most of the time.

R197 when you look at the demographics of TV viewership, people tend to watch shows with people who look like them and I think this translates to ticket sales. You can appreciate, enjoy, and praise a diverse cast of people but when you look at where people put their time and money - it is towards those who are the most relatable to them and often that is people who look like them.

Also Dahlia as a Broccoli is the worst forced meme of the millennium.

I can't believe that people like Miz Cracker. I re-watched season 10 a few weeks ago and she was just... not great.

Aww, I teared up when Heidi was sent home.

I loved her talks with the producers. She is funny.

I’ve never cared for Crystal and Jackie. I honestly can’t tell them apart. They sort of cancel each other out.

I’ll be fine with either Gigi or Jaida winning.

Please god let the word "problematic" die. I see this vague, lazy term used everywhere lately to refer to X, Y or Z "issue/s" in place of elucidation.

r201 I did too, but she'll probably snag the next All Stars if she just polishes things up a wee bit. She certainly became a fan favorite at the very least. RuPaul did seem more ardent than her usual pat line about Heidi having a strong future ahead of her.

[quote]It’s basically a more subtle version of what happens to virtually all the Puerto Rican queens.

Somebody from Puerto Rico on the RPDR subreddit explained that the producers don't like the PR queens because they got wise to how the drag houses there would game the system to get their queens on the show.

There are four main drag houses in PR, each of which would select two queens to audition. Whichever queen made it onto the show had a whole team behind her as far as wardrobe, coaching, etc., and was assigned a "buddy" queen in her house who was considered a good prospect for the next season. After the queen who made cast went home, she would share her "intelligence" with the other queen so that if she got cast, she'd hopefully be even better prepared. (Obviously, though, many of the queens were held back by their poor English.)

Jessica Wild was her house's pick who got on S2, and Yara Sofia got selected to audition for S3. (Alexis Mateo wasn't part of the house system because she lives in Florida.)

In S4 Kenya Michaels was her house's nominee, but Madame LaQueer bucked the system and got cast without the backing of her house. Kenya was cunty to MLQ because she thought there were other, more talented queens who should have gotten her spot instead. ("Puerto Rico feel bad because Madame doing a bad work of RuPaul's Drag Race!") Lineysha Sparx, MLQ's drag daughter, was chosen to audition for S5.

April Carrión (S6) told Kandy Ho (S7) that she would need to make herself stand out so she wouldn't get pigeonholed as filler, so Kandy presented herself as a villain. Production had finally caught on to the game, though, and gave Kandy an edit that was minimal even for a filler queen.

The house system is also speculated to be the reason that in the most recent seasons, the PR gurls who've gotten cast are queens who live in the mainland US (Naysha Lopez and Cynthia Lee Fontaine).

Shangela was so annoying.....she can't be anything else.

And the mainland drag houses don't do the same thing? Sure Jan.

Shangela, DJ Pierce is by far the most accomplished and successful of them all. Bianca has more money, but Shangela's credits go on and on. He's very ambitious that one. That's why he was so disliked. Drag is only one of his many talents. And it took him a long time to get his drag together. Now Shangela tours the world in Solo shows. The boy can act, the bitch can dance and there ain't much he can't figure out. He gets cast as a dude, is on Ariana Grande tracks and performs for Beyonce. Shangela has wild respect. AND he was ROBBED of the All Stars Crown. By jealous petty bitches.

Trixie who?

R197 I’m not sure Asia O’Hara is a good example for booking fees and racism. I’m not denying it’s an issue, but Asia just doesn’t have the X factor ergo lower booking fees.

R208 Asia is a dud. You get a sense of how boring and humorless she is watching her on Fashion Photo Review with Raja.

[Quote] You get a sense of how boring and humorless she is watching her on Fashion Photo Review with Raja.

And Raja isn't a fun day in the park either. Talk about a humorless dull duo. Yikes!

Where are these alleged Shangela projects? She is not likable

And when she gets the project, she shows up at the red carpet looking a mess, like she always does.

^ Dude is answering his own negative racists post again. You can always tell when he's got TWO dee-vices fired up. Supporting his own lost cause. Same guy hates Monique Heart, Asia O'Hara, Kennedy Davenport, Monet and The Vixen, of course. The racists do play on the weekends. And pretend that it's in the imagination SJWs. What a fool you are R212. Like who you like, but stop being so obvious about supporting your own racist opinions just moments later - from another computer in your institution.

Oh god r213, even if true, who cares? Get a hobby.

It’s just stating a fact. Shangela lost because the other queens did not like her. She has no hit show, no hit YouTube show, no singles, etc. I hope she is making money on the circuit but she is not as popular as other queens who have been more successful after the show.

R216 Go fuck Vixen ya mental cunt.

How are they dealing with getting rid of predator Sherry at this point?

From your other device I will. You referenced yourself, ha. How appropriate. Get the phones mixed up again? You're insane R216. Shangela has a show on HBO with Bob and Eureka, did you hear? She's the first and ONLY drag queen to walk the red carpet at the Oscars. She had her own world tour. You're white hood and ancient old fag man is showing again. You don't run this thread or anything else. And overt racists are no longer tolerated here. Ask your friend Miss Warwick. Watch your mouth and your back. We ain't all ancient white sissies in this place. Y'all know nothing about drag race or dick. You ain't seen neither.

No one is using multiple devices. I think you are a paranoid nut job.

You've been busted on this before. Easy enough to shut you down again. But then the whole class will suffer. Shut up while you still have functioning gums R219. We've all seen your work.

R218 Ooops the mental is out and threatening people online.

You can say a lot of things about Shangela, but you can't say that she hasn't been successful. She and Bianca are probably the two most successful queens to ever come out of that show and I'm talking about crossover appeal, not just the drag world. I mean Shangela is cashing McDonald's checks -- and not from working the drive thru. You don't get more crossover than that.

anyway back to season 12, will we be happy with a Crystal win?

How are they going to do the crowning?

Gigi or Jaida

Zoom

They should go back to the S1-3 crownings. Just the judges and the queens. Everyone 5'11' apart.

That would be amazing R227 because we may get a genuine reaction from the winner-no more taping everyone winning or stupid ties.

This thread is about season 12 not the other queens from others seasons. Start your own thread about that, please.

Here's a thread for other seasons I've posted.

The Whoopi Goldberg I thought she was showed up for Untucked this week. Really wise advice and deep truth. Not Ru platitudes. Some hard truths. I was impressed.

r231 I was also impressed with Whoopi. This is how I remember her from WAY back before the View. I think she's so tuned out from the View bullshit that she's barely even phoning it in, so when we see life out of her like in this episode it is a welcome treat.

As they were applying makeup this week, I noticed Jackie already had a five o'clock shadow over which she was about to apply her foundation. Do they take razors and other sharp objects away from the queens and require them to use a Norelco or something?

If I had been clocked for my shadow, I'd be shaving upwards, against the grain, immediately before applying my makeup. Maybe she has an issue with ingrown hairs.

Jackie has infidel hairs. And she's only half Iranian and that half doesn't speak to her and her parents divorced and she grew up with her loving WHITE father in CANADA. I can't stand Jackie Cox or her fake Muslim beard.

Boy Jackie is handsome

I would rather hear Brita braying about life as a Polynesian Morman (something that’s actually interesting and I’ve always wondered about) than Jackie insincerely jockeying her irreligious heritage for woke points.

It was very courageous of her to admit she has “misgivings” about the state-sanctioned torture and murder of gay men in Iran.

Polynesian Mormons? You rang?

r222 Ahem....

There's absolutely nothing interesting about Brita.

So it’s Sherry, Gigi, Jaida and Crystal.

Sherry out.

3-way Zoom party finale?

R241, I don’t know if this is a spoiler or not. But if Jackie goes home this week, I really hope they don’t bring her back to fill Sherry’s slot. They’re probably not going to be able to do the lip sync from the crown, so just have it be a Top Three.

[quote]The problem now is that Drag Race is about drag race drag and not old school drag.

Old school drag, aka pageant queens, is so dated. It's about as relevant today as the Miss America pageant. It doesn't translate well to TV or social media. People are looking for something different.

The good thing about Drag Race is that it allows all kinds of drag and encourages talent in all areas.

The bad thing is that creates a tv show culture that is divorced from real life or real community. Drag has been commodified per RuPaul Incorporated. They never show them working in clubs or being unexpected after the show. It’s not a horrible thing but it has a rigid franchise feel.

I love Jaida. Her Makeover was one of the best ever on this show. That woman looked great AND she looked like a drag queen. The rest of the bio women merely looked like women wearing a lot of makeup. There’s a difference.

Gigi was my favorite for a while but she’s just too young to win. She may make a better impression on All Stars.

I like the personality of Crystal a lot. She’s lovable like Heidi which is fun to watch.

The rest? Meh.

At least The Boulet Brothers had the guts to cast a Drag King, Landon Cider, who auditioned to get on Drag Race and was denied.

I liked Jackie at the start but like Gigi she's shown not much talent.

Bring back Matt Iseman a/k/a Bette Bordeaux from Celebrity Drag Race for the finale!

R246, Landon Cider is incredibly talented and did a great job on Dragula. I think it would be interesting to do a season of Kings vs. Queens. You know what I have zero interest in? This crazy push to get bio queens on the show, as well as the incessant claims of transphobia directed towards the producers.

Ru and WOW know what the general audience is interested in. They want to see a transformation. Drag King contestants would fill that role. I know that the straight female fanbase feels entitled to bulldoze their way into one of the only situations that isn’t about them and demand representation, but no one is interested in a show about pretty women with makeup, long hair, and dresses transforming into...pretty women with makeup, long hair, and dresses. They can take that shit to American Idol, The Voice, and all of the eight thousand other shows that bend over to kiss the ass of glamorous female entertainers but will never cast a drag queen.

I think this is also why the show isn’t big on trans contestants. Yes, we had Peppermint and Gia compete post-transition. Maybe they should have one on per season. But seeing Gia just essentially change her makeup and curl her hair before the runway challenge wasn’t exactly riveting television.

[Quote] I know that the straight female fanbase feels entitled to bulldoze their way into one of the only situations that isn’t about them and demand representation

Kinda like gay bars for the last 20 years.

[Quote] but no one is interested in a show about pretty women with makeup, long hair, and dresses transforming into...pretty women with makeup, long hair, and dresses.

Yes. It was called Drag U.

More random Season XVII thoughts.

I like Jackie more than most, I know him from NYC a little and he's a funny, friendly guy. Sure she's a "utility outfielder", but always gets it done and is quite solid. Her one-woman show was good. She took the notes and nailed them. She wins lots of mini challenges because she's clever and has lots of cultural references, which I think is absolutely necessary. Look how totally lost Gigi and Jaida are when people talk about anything that didn't happen on Instagram in the last eighteen months. Complete blanks! It's Jackie's "Now with more Millennial Flavor!" that annoys me.

Crystal should have won the make-over challenge with her inspired Bert & Ernie drag. She was robbed. It was inspired while Jaida's was "pretty". I don't get the applause over her make-over, it was fine, but nothing more imo. Sherry Pie's make-over was excellent too, they looked like twins and I thought she also nailed it.

Sadly, Heidi fell just shy of the top four, but even in defeat was funny, and gracious. She is the fan favorite with the most to gain by being on RPDR this season. I hope she gets some great opportunities and fun from the experience.

Like many, I'm guessing that Jackie gets sent packing this week.

It would be great if they threw in a drag king or even a child or senior drag queen (or all child / all senior drag race) but the formula is pretty rigid.

Matt Iseman a/k/a Bette Bordeaux seems gay, I was surprised he had a girlfriend! I worked with him on a little project last year and he was a total pro. He's also gigantic in real like, like 6'4" and 235 pounds, so just getting him in heels was a triumph. I think he's kind of sexy for a middle aged guy. I bet he knows his way around a man.

Heidi was my favorite because Heidi is exactly who this type of show benefits the most. This experience is going to change her life in ways she could never have imagined will working in that gas station in North Carolina. Of the remaining queens, I don't really have a favorite. I wouldn't mind if it was El Debarge. I do think Gigi has been floating through only because she has a polished runway. I know I'm alone, but I feel bad for Sherry Pie. I don't mind Jackie or Jaida. This has been a good season.

[Quote] or even a child

Fuck no! Fraus have taken over in general with drag now we get their kids? Pass!

Just for you Jan

R252, I respect Jackie’s references. It’s just a shame they’re delivered by someone utterly devoid of charisma or any likability. She may comes across well in real life, but that doesn’t mean anything in a televised competition. Her eyes are hollow and every reaction she says feels calculated and delivered robotically. It also seems like something a lot of gay people do when they’re trying to come across as straight-passing. I don’t know if it’s because of deep-seated self-loathing or an attempt to double dip as a queen and the trade of the season, but Ru is right when she says her walls are making it very challenging to open up to her.

And I’m sorry, there’s a place for a discussion of Islamaphobia, but Drag Race isn’t it, especially since there has been zero discussion on the show of the life-threatening horrors that gay men endure in Muslim majority countries like his ancestral home he’s so proud of. If they are not going to talk about that, then we shouldn’t get a bunch of emotional runway speeches designed to make his homophobic mother the victim for not being allowed to come into the US.

Until Sharia Law is abolished, it’s not the job of the gay community to overlook the sins of Iran since their penalty for our “sins” is death.

R254, I would inhale his dick.

Gigi started off so strong, but is sinking fast. The great outfits can only carry you for so long. He reminds me a lot of Raja, who was always immaculate with his looks but didn't wow with his personality or talent.

I'm sure when Jackie channelled Eartha Kitt in the litterbox, Gigi, Jaida, Heidi and Crystal had no idea what he was doing, nor once explained did they know who Eartha Kitt even was.

Matt Iseman always seems like he does a truckload of coke before every American Ninja Warrior ep. That said he’s hot af.

Gigi is definitely talented you crazy revisionist hoes. That Madonna alone was worth the price of admission. She was one of the funniest in the comedy challenge which is usually reserved for the most stereotypical black lady performance as winner (note: I LOVE that comedy but let’s be honest. And no white queen would get away with that in this day and age).

And her snatch game character was clever. Her looks are also flawless and she emotes well on stage.

She just needs more life experience to form her own references and have personal stuff to draw from for improv. But Gigi has been great.

And Raja’s looks we’re NEVER “immaculate.” They were thrifty as the day is long. She had style, but immaculate? Please.

[Quote] She just needs more life experience to form her own references and have personal stuff to draw from for improv. But Gigi has been great.

Yes, it was called Violet Chachki.

Raja had style but look at her now, Hi Granny! Raja never had any personality but like Raven she's very hard and serious.

Gigi is this season's Blair St. Clair. Or Scarlett Envy.

I absolutely don't feel sorry for Mr. Pie. Wretched human being.

Who the fuck cares, R261? Not every queen needs encyclopedic knowledge of replacement actresses from campy 1960’s superhero shows to be good at their job. And Jackie doesn’t deserve a medal for playing the mid-century kitsch icon trivia game by acknowledging her with a phoned in impression.

I know who Elizabeth Montgomery is too. That doesn’t mean I’d be good at drag.

BTW, most of the queens you listed are of the age group where they would’ve seen The Emperor’s New Groove as kids and Eartha plays the iconic villain in that film. So yes, they would know her. And if they didn’t, Valentina did her in Snatch Game two years ago, as did Chi Chi in season eight.

Eartha Kitt impressions on the show aren’t exactly groundbreaking.

R267, I don’t feel bad for Sherry, but I also don’t feel bad for her idiot victims who thought you needed to submit a jerk-off tape to get cast in a stage version of Disney’s The Nightmare Before Christmas.

I want Crystal to win now. Gigi is too much like Aquaria and Jaida is too much like Aquaria. Crystals market is more unique.

I want Heidi to come back for All Stars. But she does give me Chi Chi vibes. They have raw talent but are not very career savvy.

Also, it’ll be funny if Shea loses because a black winner won last time and we now need an Asian winner (tipping the scales to Juju) instead.

Funny that we get talent like Shangela and Shea yet we get talentless Monet as the winner.

Monet is a fantastic host, which is an underrated skill that translates to a marketable media personality. Everything else about her sucks, though.

Honestly, I'd take Gigi or Jaida or Crystal as winners. This has been such a great season and I don't necessarily think any of them outweigh the other in winner attributes. Crystal is the dark horse, for sure, but I bet with a little media training and confidence building she'd be able to really come into her own and sell the Drag Race brand that Ru so desperately seeks with every winner. Gigi is going to be fine, I'm betting she already has Vogue and Harper's Bazaar and the other fashion mags scrambling to book her for videos and appearances. Jaida's strength is how polished she is, which puts her in a Chad Michaels category of always being seen as a perfect representation of a Drag Race winner.

R271, Shea is VERY overrated. She has talent, but I feel like a lot of queens have done the same schtick she has to much better effect.

If I were to guess right now, I'm gonna say Crystal is gonna win. She's had the best edit all season where she's coasted but not been cocky about it, has the sob story, an arc that proves she's listened to the judges and applied the critiques, and is instantly recognizable. I feel like Jaida's been given the red herring edit, where it's so obvious she does well but she's only there to represent the show as a polished queen. They're not applying a backstory to her.

I agree with R269. The whole episode with Sherry Pie was a tempest in a teapot, and completely unnecessary. The "victim" was 36 years old. Fer Christ's sake, how fucking gullible can a person be? l

The whole finale is a mess anyway. So why not Heidi?

I still love the El DeBarge running gag.

Heidi is nothing like Chi Chi, who was frankly dumb. Heidi is not dumb nor inexperienced. They are both southern, black and poor. That's it.

Jaida is a little more than polished. I would most compare her to Trinity the Tuck. Fishy, flawless drag. Great taste in clothes and surprisingly skillful in the acting and other challenges. Quick witted and a bit shady, but far from a villain. Not a great dancer, but not much else she can't do. Jaida is far more attractive and accomplished than Aquaria?? They have nothing in common. Jaida would be the winner that represents the RuPaul SuperModel of the World better than Raja or Bebe or Tyra did, except she's also smart, has heart and talent and the fans LOVE her. Very unusual for a black queen.

Crystal does get a good edit and he's a fun goofy guy. But he does halloween type drag and has no real identity as a drag queen. He's like MILK without the incredible bitchiness. I don't see him as the winner.

The season is still for Jaida or Gigi to win. And in truth, only Jaida deserves it at this point. My opinion.

BTW. Unlike Chi Chi, who proved himself to be just as limited, awkward and dumb when he returned for All Stars, all Heidi needs is the glow up that being a Ru girl provides. Makeup artists and more fashion forward DRAG. The rest she has in buckets. Don't even fix that gap. I love the gap in her smile. That boy could star in his own sitcom and or WOW show tomorrow. He's nothing like like dumb hunky shallow and fake Chi Chi. Heidi is glamorous, fast, funny and very TALENTED.

Sherry Pie has far more than one victim R276. A tempest in a teapot? No.

I think Gigi and her mom are very talented. Her Instagram will be popular and she’ll get some endorsement deals from it. She’ll have a decent career doing runways for a bit for designers who want to have a drag queen gimmick. But then when the next 21-year-old with a couture body and strong fashion comes around, she’ll be old news.

To have longevity as a Ru girl, you have to be able to handle yourself on a mic, host shows, and have a kick-ass live act. I don’t see this for her. It would be Aquaria 2. In a way, I think it would serve her well if she didn’t win and came back on All Stars with some more experience. She would have a great shot.

I would be totally alright with a Jaida win, and would definitely prefer it to Gigi, but she’s had some low points too. I just wish that Jaida had a slightly more unique edge to her. She’s very polished, but there isn’t that something extra that makes a star.

I think Crystal would be the most satisfying winner. She really is a one-of-a-kind character and a true original, which is almost impossible to find on the show after 12 seasons of copies after copies. She’s a weirdo, but in an authentic and charming way, not in a calculated Sasha Velour manner. She’s been hitting out of the park from the Madonna challenge on.

The only winner I would be disappointed with would be Gigi.

Amen, R279. Ru usually gives a short and sweet goodbye to the contestant eliminated. The fact that Ru gave Heidi a bit extra with her "you're a star" speech, it says something. Heidi has got IT.

Any of those 3 would be fine. It’s just a game show, nothing more.

The thing I really liked about this season was how well the elimination order worked out. Aside from Aidan, no one was dragged out too long or eliminated too soon. Dahlia had a shitty attitude and very little talent to show off, so she was a smart first boot. Rock’s tenure was mercifully cut short, which was a relief because all the focus on her mental issues was draining. Brita was kept long enough to ring enough drama out of her villain story and then discarded immediately when it was no longer useful. And I was afraid we were going to have to deal with Jan until at least Top 5, so her boot was a welcome surprise.

I see no lies in your post R284. It's been a very good and almost fair season. An order of elimination that made sense with what we saw, really great talent and mostly excellent runways. Fair LSFYL decisions - except for the double save. Season 12 would only disappoint me now if Gigi wins. She's really good - but not a winner. If Crystal pulls off The Ball challenge, give it to her. That dude is nothing if not original and surprising. I'm not into his drag, but he's sincere and unique. I prefer Jaida. She's not about to let a ball drop. Let's see.

Jackie cutting Heidi off when she was about to tell a interesting anecdote about her very first job, "about to go into another one of her little stories" right after she was sobbing for the umpteenth time retelling the same god boring ass sob story! Bitch has no self awareness.

Gigi is easily the best white Instagram fashion queen the show has ever seen. Jaida is easily the best black pageant girl the show has ever seen. Crystal, with her sweet But SFW “brought to you by the letter M and the children’s television workshop” weirdness is an interesting prospect as a RPDR winner too - she’s a smalltown red state queen who loves her Trump-voter parents and is exactly the sort of sweetheart who could expand the brand to walking children in nature and hosting WOW drag queen story hours.

Jackie needs to move back to Canada. She could probably write her own ticket at the CBC.

I'm surprised that more people don't like Jackie. But then, I don't really see what is being posted in social media and on other message boards. I thought being cute as a boy would get him some extra points, but apparently that hasn't helped.

Why should it? This is a drag competition, not Who Looks Cutest As A Boy competition.

R287, that’s not exactly a glowing endorsement of the CBC.

I love Jackie. I would have liked the top 3 to have been Heidi, Crystal, and Jackie.

R288, he’s really not that cute as a boy. Walk into any gay bar in Manhattan and you’ll find forty guys who look exactly like him.

I don't get the thirst over Jackie either, but I just chalk it up to just having different tastes and the generally low bar that's set regarding the matter (considering how awkward a lot of the queens look as boys).

Jackie is an average looking guy. End of story.

It wasn’t meant to be, r290.

I am totally fine if GiGi wins. She is expected to win next week and be back on top.

CALM DOWN Kayleigh ( r268), no one is robbing you of your right to have an opinion!

[quote]I agree with [R269]. The whole episode with Sherry Pie was a tempest in a teapot

I agree too. Nobody cares about these things. I mean, it's a bunch of counter-culture young gay guys, do they all have to be Mother Teresa? How stupid do these fools have to be to not realize someone is just making shit up to see your dick? Damn, every time I go on Skype I'm in my underwear anyway, do I give a crap? No!

Crystal as a boy is my pick for hottest of the bunch.

I love how tiny tits Visage had to go on and on about Sherry being self centered. Just to show what a meanie Sherry was in the show. Stupid. Do the producers really think some of us don't know what they're trying to do? We're not children for fuck sake. Sheeeeesh!

Jakcie Coxx continues to be insufferable. Always bringing the waterworks when someone critisizes her. But her father was such a handsome man. He looks quite gay too.

Obviously, Sherry or one of her friends are on here doing damage control. Go away, skank. Sherry, you are a despicable human being, and yes, selfish too.

Jaida and Dida Ritz have the same drag mother but are worlds apart in style.

That’s my random contribution.

Dida gave one of the most iconic lip syncs of the show IMO - This Will Be (An Everlasting Love) by Natalie Cole.

r304 Dita not Dida. Matt Iseman, is an actual Dr. He went to Princeton and got his MD from Columbia.

Fick mich, doctor R305

I like Iseman, but it’s obvious he’s EXTREMELY ambitious and he can come across as a tryhard and a kiss-ass sometimes. He was on The Apprentice with Ross during the Terminator season.

What a fucking waste of an Ivy League education and medical degree to throw it away to pursue being a thirsty, Z-List celebrity.

Asshole.

R308 I wonder what other income he had or what happened that made him decide in 2002 to leave medicine to pursue a career as a full time stand up comedian. He would have probably only recently finished his residency - ten years becoming a doctor and then you switch to see if you can make it as a comedian?

"We All End Up Doing What We're Second-Best At", or so the quote goes. Maybe if Dr. Iseman kept working in that field he wouldn't be as satisfied or accomplished.

Oh calm down Mavis/r302. No one is doing the made up story in your bipolar head mental case head.

Sheeeesh!

Jackie is likable out of drag, but is ugly and unfunny in drag. As a drag artist, she brings nothing to the table. She reminds me of Miz Cracker in that regard.

For Ru to say that this season of queens is the best he's ever seen, says a lot. It's a shame they re-edited the show to cut out Sherry's scenes, because it adversely affected the flow of the show. They should have just aired it as originally planned. Putting up a disclaimer would have been more than sufficient. Do they think we gays are easily shocked and offended?

R312, they’re not doing it for the gays.

They’re doing it to please the “queer” “woke” racists white teen girls who are now the main demographic of this show. They’re the ones “cancelling” people online.

[Quote] They’re doing it to please the “queer” “woke” racists white teen girls who are now the main demographic of this show. They’re the ones “cancelling” people online.

Aka, Mavis/r302.

I blocked r313.

I think they edited Sherry out for backlash mitigation, plus they probably initially gave her a very favorable edit since she went to top 4. Gigi has the fast track since Ivie won last time. I like Jaida but she seems very pageant and kind of aloof.

Holy crap, Ru Paul just won 97 thousand dollars on The Price Is Right!!!

Wow, it’s too delicious that he’s giving it to Planned Parenthood!

Fantastic!

Almost all the contestants won their stuff.

Speaking of creeps - introducing Canada's Drag Race! With the delicious Jeffrey Bowyer Chapman, Stacie MacKenzie, Traci Melchor as judges AND Brooke Lynn Hytes as your host? HUH. He has the personality of a Timbit. How the fuck are they gonna do this and who said they could??? Traci Melchor is super cool though. When did Ru franchise? As the article says - Brooke is the first Drag Race alumni to serve as a Drag Race host. Of the 150 previous contestants, they chose her? What's the muslim from Halifax think of this? I don't like Jackie but she could host a damn Canadian version of Drag Race better than BLH. WAY better.

R317 I wonder if Ru donates any of his fracking money to charities.

R318. It filmed ages ago. I guess BLH was the only token Canadian they had at the time. In a Canada is a small world moment, I looked him up because he was also Canadian and realized I knew his family growing up!

r318, where have you been, Ru's franchised a while back- there's been 2 seasons of Drag Race: Thailand and one of Drag Race: UK.

Well R321. I been busy. Ru hosted the U.K. version. And the Canadian season has not been aired yet, no matter when it was filmed. I fucked Jeffrey Boy Chapman after a party at Traci Melchor's in the summer of 2018. Were they filming then? He never mentioned it, but he was cute with his wide boy hips and pretty lips. It was a very clean night. We met again. Then I got what I wanted from him. But Brooke Lynn Hytes wasn't there or maybe I just didn't recognize him? He's so gross looking out of drag. That's why I said that Jackie would make a better host if they have a season 2. Who knew?

R322 Drag Race Canada filmed in November 2019 so looks like your rendezvous was pre filming. Drag Race season 11 (BLHs season) filmed June 2018.

The mediocre and uncreative Brook Lynne Hytes got the gig because no other queen was willing to spend that kind of time in Canada. It's not like it's taping in Vancouver.

Even the other (few) Canadian queens didn't want it.

[quote]Ru's franchised a while back- there's been 2 seasons of Drag Race: Thailand and one of Drag Race: UK

There have also been two seasons of The Switch Drag Race, the Chilean version (which is an official franchise but a completely different show focused on live singing).

Ru (justifiably) gave Heidi a hard time for her awful drag name but what about Brooke Lynn Heights? So juvenile and meaningless since she is from Canada. Wtf.

R326, I HATED the name Brooke Lynn Hytes. It was cringy faux hipster bullshit. And his real name was a better drag name anyway.

I kind of liked the name Heidi N. Closet, but then I’m a sucker for a punny drag name. The ones that piss me off are the [Jewel] [Luxury Car] [Fashion House] Mad Libs ones. Why doesn’t Ru call those out? And enough with the O’Hara/Davenport bullshit.

I think Jackie’s still around because Ru wants him on the show. Ru said at one point that he was surprised Jackie hadn’t won any challenges. Maybe Ru thinks he’ll surprise us.

I just realised...when is the library going to open this season?!

r329 - yeah I keep saying "ooh the reading challenge" but nope. I wonder if they cancelled it due to Sherry Pie - she probably won it.

Heidi Love

R330 - Yes, possibly, it would make sense. I just enjoy the reading challenge.

I love the Heidi compilation. R331. Heidi deserves all the love.

They’ve had a mini challenge each episode this season. So unfortunately, I think that the Bosom Buddies one was the reading challenge repurposed. I thought it was clever, but not clever enough to replace the reading challenge proper. I miss queens getting called a BMW!

I wonder if they shelved the reading challenge this time, after how horrible it went last season. Brooke won it practically by default; Silky and Vanjie were complete cringe.

Maybe it'll return for S13 - Everybody Loves Puppets came back this year after skipping S11.

The puppets challenge this season was pretty lame. This group of queens doesn't seem particularly strong without prepared material

I'm starting to dislike Gigi. She made a brief appearance on WWHL this week and she already has an attitude. She reminds me of smug Aquaria.

Don't you mean a smugger Aquaria r336?

Has anyone seen the contenders for RUDP AS part whatever? Not a bad cast.

r337 Yeah I thought India was an odd choice but apparently she had beef with a few queens so it should be interesting.

Word is that the reunion is going to be a virtual slumber party hosted by Ru next Thursday and then on Friday, the top THREE will lip synch for your life using some new innovative technology. So they won't be bringing back whoever goes home tonight. And it better be Jackie. And whoever is crowned the winner, will be done in real time.

Correction. The slumber party Reunion has been shot and will be aired next Friday. The virtual finale is May 29.

Tonight was good! Totally appropriate.

I'm tired of "loveable" weirdos and young skinny fashion bitches winning. Give it to a drag QUEEN. Jaida killed every aspect of this challenge. She's all that the show was ever designed for and as good as any of them at it. But she does it with a sense of irony and humor too. She's magnificent. Her makeup was totally different tonight and made her more beautiful than ever. Don't hate her because she's perfect. She's fucking perfect. Bitch can dance and rap too. Ms. Sherry PIe can SING!. We know she has the real Broadway creds. Sherry Pie deserved to win this challenge. We finally saw a lot of what she can do, and it's a lot. So talented.

I don't know how they came up with another win for Gigi? I would placed her third safe.

Carson Corny Crispy is completely useless. I can stand his ancient ASS of no talent. Why is he there?

Jamal Sims remains S E X Y. Year after year. That man is too fine and joyful.

[Quote] I don't know how they came up with another win for Gigi?

Like Violet the judges are enamored with her runway. They can't see past it. If Gigi's mother wins it will be another Violet. And where is she now?

Spoiler but cute summary

R336 There's something about Gigi that I think is more off putting than Aquaria. Maybe because Aquaria didn't have her mommy design all of her costumes? Gigi's drag feels like it was created by an algorithm. I re-watched season 10 recently and noticed that Aquaria, at least, had some sort of sense of humor. Like, was Jackie wrong when she called Gigi a costume queen? Her looks are nowhere near as "conceptual"/"fashionable" (eyeroll) as Violet or Aquaria. For fuck's sake, she was basically cosplaying last episode.

I've had ENOUGH (officially) of all these Rusicals. ENOUGH!

R343 I think Gigi will be a worse win than Violet Chachki. I never thought I would be defending Violet, of course she doesn't have Trixie or Katya's level of mainstream success, but to be fair she IS busy with her burlesque. I get the impression that she takes her drag very seriously. Again, Gigi's mommy is the one creating her costumes. Judges love her, but I'm not seeing her performance abilities sustaining her career. She offers nothing. I can't see her even living up to Violet.

It is a bit hard to figure out their formula for choosing a winner. Gigi has the most IG followers but Crystal has had the biggest increase in followers. If you think who out of Jaida, Crystal, or Gigi would be most likely to have a successful WoW show - maybe Crystal?

The last few winners were Bob, Aquaria, Sasha, and Yvie with Trixie, Trinity and Monet winning All Stars recently as well.

Jaida is poised and professional but I don't know if she has that 'it' factor. Heidi and Crystal have far more vibrant personalities / quirkiness.

[Quote] but to be fair she IS busy with her burlesque.

Sure maybe the first few years after her win but now? Her burlesque IS going no where. She was a terrible winner but Ru has a good track record of that.

[Quote] Bob, Aquaria, Sasha, and Yvie with Trixie, Trinity and Monet

Bob was fine. Aquaria was dull. Sasha, who? Yvie the jury is still out. Trixie is a drag superstar like it or not. Trinity is boring as is Monet.

R348 Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying she's doing it. She seems to be "busy" with it and puts some effort into it. Obviously, it somehow sustains her. I'm not a fan.

I literally can't see Gigi doing shit in 5 years. What's she going to do? Scooby Doo cosplay? I'm just not seeing it!!

A to Z

R349 - exactly. It is hard to know what criteria they use to determine a winner. More often than not, they don't seem to choose the fan favorite.

Prior to Season 9 the winner was always the queen who had the best track record, did the best over the season.

But from Season 9 onward track record doesn't matter and they will crown whoever they want.

True R353. And the show is worse for it. The Lip Synch for the Crown negates the whole season when Sasha Velour or Yvie Oddley win. I hate it. I don't care who the kids like. Shea and Eureka were robbed.

Jada and Gigi are the only legit contenders for the season 12 crown. Crystal is just weird with clown makeup and dressed by Mondo from Project Runway. Jaida made EVERY SINGLE ONE of her own gowns and costumes. I wonder who dressed Gigi? Oh right, his mommy.

I'm glad Ru spared Crystal, even though Jackie technically turned in a better lip sync performance. Crystal was the more unpredictable and exciting queen who showed growth and versatility. Jackie was proficient at everything and generally very likable, but there's a certain paint-by-numbers quality to her drag that makes a lot of it seem like a stale retread. Also, her overemphasis on her Persian heritage seemed more strategic than authentic and it got old fast.

Despite the best efforts of the editors, Sherry was clearly one of the best queens of the season and I strongly suspect she would have been the season 12 winner if she wasn't moonlighting as a sex pest criminal. Jaida is probably the next strongest contender overall, but I honestly think if it came down to her and Sherry, it would likely go to Sherry who is the more entertaining queen with a very distinct brand. Jaida is good, but she's not quite as memorable.

[Quote] , Sherry was clearly one of the best queens of the season and I strongly suspect she would have been the season 12 winner

Agree. Producers tried but fail to make her look terrible. She's a great drag queen. Shame he is an asshole.

I like Violet. She is big in the fashion world like Miss Fame. They go to shows in Paris, or did before Miss Corona.

It’s a good top 3. Based on past formulas, I could see GiGi winning unless she chokes which is entirely possible.

[quote]Gigi's drag feels like it was created by an algorithm.

I think I feel the same way about Gigi, but I [italic]definitely[/italic] felt the same way about Aquaria two years ago. They both come off as something created in a drag laboratory for the specific purpose of competing on (and winning) the show.

Both can serve 'lewks' all day long, but I'm unsure if I'd ever hand over money to watch either of them perform.

“I'm glad Ru spared Crystal, even though Jackie technically turned in a better lip sync performance.“

Thank you for saying this. I thought I probably would be the only one who would admit that Jackie outperformed Crystal—but Crystal is wonderfully weird and definitely deserved to stay. Her silly/strange/funny creature costume is the only reason I really enjoyed the women-made-over episode.

RuPaul seemed a little confounded during the judging and I believe that was real. The five finalists are the strongest in the show’s run in my opinion. Jackie is the ‘weakest’ in a sense, but Jackie is very, very good. I agree the Persian thing was made into too much of a thing (How ironic that the Persian princess was defeated by a blue genie after singing about rubbing her lamp!), but that’s reality TV. Everyone needs a ‘thing’ to stand out, or so the logic goes.

I didn’t love Gigi at first. I was impressed with the clothes, but they were a little too perfect, really, and everyone was too enamored of her and that put me off a bit. But Gigi is a performer. Her robot was one of the most entertaining Snatch Game characters ever. (It’s often so dreadful and Gigi was legitimately funny and witty.) Her Madonna performance at least as it was edited was by far the best. Gigi proved herself to me IMO. I resented her a bit because I was hoping Heidi would take it all, but without Heidi there, I can like Gigi better. And Gigi does not seem as full of herself and as off putting to me as some similar “fishy queens” like Aquaria. I think Gigi is a better package overall.

Jaida was under the radar for me for most of the season, maybe because she is so polished and kind of comparatively quiet. She didn’t fight for TV time in or out of drag, and I appreciate that.

Sherry did come across as a total pro from what I saw. I was impressed with the performance and I really think to edit the season the way they chose to do was a major mistake. She WAS there. She was present in all the performances and she was always judged—so why pretend she wasn’t there sometimes? Like, fine, cancel her candidacy in the end. But the editing just screwed up the narrative and had my mind doing too many double takes. She wasn’t shown during rehearsal and then suddenly she is opening the performance. Poor editorial judgment, IMO.

Anyway, I think all the finalists are incredibly talented. But more than that, I enjoyed this season in great part because I LIKE all of them. There’s no Phi Phi, no Derrick, no Shangela talking about being Danaerys Targaryen, no insecure reality show villains. And I loved that.

If Sherry was not invited to the reunion, does that mean Jackie Cox will be the fourth finalist, or will they only have three finalists?

I actually would have chosen Jackie to win last night, so I was especially disappointed that she was eliminated. I also love Crystal and, like others, have become disillusioned with Gigi as the season progressed. I was surprised her final look got so much praise.

I really hope they keep the top three as Crystal, Gigi, and Jaida. Jackie should’ve gone home weeks ago and I don’t think she deserves to be shoehorned into the top four just because Sherry was disqualified. I want Crystal to win, but I have a feeling they’re going to go with Gigi. Booooring. The last exciting winner the show had was Bob back in 2016. So here we go again with yet another fashion girl no one wants to follow after the show.

Whatever, she’ll have a pretty instagram which is all they seem to look for in a winner now. But I’d rather eat glass than see her live on a mic at a show.

Why do they need to add someone for a top four when the point of the finale is to name the top one? That seems like an entirely pointless endeavor.

Sherry Pie did one thing the whole season. Same face. Same derpy-derpy walk and bit. I don't get the appeal of this one at all.

Gigi and Jaida are both missing the Uniqueness factor. They are slightly less interesting versions of Violet and Aquaria.

Crystal actually has the uniqueness factor and all the others. She should win.

However, I didn’t like her lipsynch that much. And if finale is them lipsynching, she might not have it.

I realize we're getting a very edited version of Sherry, but I agree with R364. It's not that she's untalented, but she comes off as some hambone refugee from a vaudeville show. And it's unbelievable she never got clocked for her paint job which looks like she copied it from a 40s horror movie.

Jackie's HUGE glasses annoyed me so much I couldn't listen to a word she was chirping.

Gigi did give some good performances....and her dropping face first on the floor during Ru's commentary on the headdress challenge was funny..... And yes her Madonna was great as was her Snatch Game. She's got something.....as opposed to Jaida who is nothing - and is sort of homely.

Jaida's actions during the first show about the choreography turned me against her from the beginning and I couldn't get back on the Jaida wagon.

They only gave THREE names to text for a winner - so Jackie isn't IN the race.

I wonder how much Sherry Pie spent on those expensive costumes that she wore all season. Ten grand?

Violet is successful in a different way- she's performed her burlesque show in Paris (as well as around the world) and like Miss Fame, models and attends the Fashion weeks in Paris and NY- she's the drag Dita Von Teese. She's been featured in Vogue at least 3 times last year. Watching the mini docs of Werq the World, she comes off as very entitled though.

[Quote] she's the drag Dita Von Teese.

Not really but okay.

I'm so tired of the show's dime store psychology. The show goes on and on and on and on about people "being in their head," which is probably a LOGICAL thing to experience while being on a reality show. Especially with the judging panel being the way it is. She's "in her head" this, she's "in her head" that. I just can't take it anymore!!

We won't know how well Sherry actually did because they cut most of her performances and interaction and almost no confessional. I don't think Crystal will get it - too much like Yvie - a weirdo with cosplay style of drag. She is very likeable and sweet but I don't see it. I think in this instance, under these circumstances (pandemic and Sherry Pie being a creeper) the only winner I can see is Jaida. RPDR is constantly criticized for lack of minority winners. They had to give it to Monet as a tie to try and fix that (Trinity won that - Monet was nowhere near her level). Jaida is good, damn good and deserves the win.

good points, r372.

I agree, Jaida has a great look like Tyra, but she’s lovable instead of detestable. She’s a little bland, but LOOK OVER THERE!

I don't really get the criticism of Gigi's mom making her outfits. Very few of the queens make their own outfits. Some spend tens of thousands to get designer gowns made to come on the show. Lots of others borrow from other queens.

Being able to design and sew all your own outfits is a great skill and talent but not doing so isn't something that people typically get criticized for.

I love how they tore Crystal to pieces in the beginning of the season then loved the same type of pint and crazy at the end of the season. So manufactured 🙄

Gigi is far and away the best of the crop (we’ll never know about Sherry Pie) and really ran this season from the jump. The comparisons to Violet are completely off base; Violet had a very specific look and style and absolutely ZERO stage charisma (granted her burlesque is honestly amazing if you haven’t seen it live you should).

Gigi has plenty of stage charisma and quirkiness and I’m not talking about braces (that’s a choice). People forget she’s 21. And like R375 said: MOST of these bitches come with prepared, expensive fashions. This is not exclusive to Gigi Goode.

That said I’m guessing a Jaida win and actually hope she does. She’s a very polished (yet kinda dull) queen who checks all the boxes so she’s a good winner. But as my husband says: you can see her down at the Kit Lat lounge. Gigi is better off returning for an all stars after she’s had a couple extra years under her belt. Remember: Gigi is only TWENTY ONE.

I do fear the racist fraüspawn if Jaida wins tho. They will go apeshit.

Jaida is like a skinny Kennedy Davenport (whom I love, BTW): very traditional, old-school, pageanty glamour drag.

It would be awesome if Crystal was a surprise winner. Jaida would also be a nice surprise. If GiGi wins, it will always be seen as a Trixie mixed bag win.

What happened to Aquaria? She won but doesn’t seem visible anymore.

Trkxie was a win that was forced on us. There is no reason that Gigi wouldnt be winning on her own merits.

I agree that Trixie was the fix. I am rewatching All Stars 4 and Trinity seriously deserved the win. But I’m not angry about the co-win because I enjoy Monet, too.

I think it's foolish to expect a winner who truly "deserves" it from the All Star seasons. They're just there for WOW to pump up the queens they like.

Trixie won because Ben quit, and then Ru had the other queens throw her out. Is that fair? Probably not but it’s not a scientific evaluation.

Is Aquaria okay?

Do we think El Debarge will appear at the finale in some form? Will Ru give him some fracking dollars for an appearance?

R383, that would be a clever idea, but he no longer wears a mullet. I doubt he would wear a wig just to play that game for Ru.

Oh, I wouldn't expect him to regrow his mullet for Ru! I wonder if Ru will have him to make one of those fan videos they usually have 1 celeb do per queen during the finale for Crystal.

Interestingly enough, Monet was the intended solo win of AS4. They frantically made it a tie at the last minute. It was heavily rumored that Monet would win until the last week. And it was accidentally proven when the programmed instagram post that came out the night of the finale revealed Monet as the sole winner. Someone forgot to take it down.

Aquaria is pretty active on Instgram and has lots of sponsored posts.

And while I am not a fan of Trixie, I have to give her kudos for the business empire she has built. She has branded and marketed herself well and is making good money. She took the Bianca approach of create a character and she has maximized opportunities to build her brand and engage a wider audience. While I don't really get he appeal of Uhhhh, it gave her a broad audience base to work with.

Trinity undeniably won the season, R386. Had Monet been the sole winner, then it certainly would have been obviously orchestrated. It was probably worth the $100,000 investment and the frustration of the audience to name two awardees if Monet was meant to be the only winner.

Jaida for the win!

While i'm fine with any lf them winning, to me Crystal is not drag, she just looks like a person dressed in ridiculous costumes. I know that 's drag, but you also know what I mean.

R386 is correct. Monet was intended as the winner of AS4, adding Trinity as a co-winner was a last minute revision.

I might be alone in this, but Jaida Essence was the worst of the challenge and should've been in the bottom with Jackie (with Jaida staying). That voice, oof.

I understand what you mean R390, but you need/should broaden your view of what drag is.

Whilst Jaida is my favourite I like both Gigi and Crystal. I wouldn't be surprised if Crystal won because Ru loves her and he said he's a big fan. I think Gigi has shown she's got some personality and wit so I do like her. But yes, #teamjaida !!

I did not know Monet was the intended winner. I always wondered why they made AS4 a tie and what Ru's reasoning was, whether he wanted to switch it up or he was influenced by the public. He's never seemed to care before then.

Yeah, that 100k was an insurance policy to avoid the show getting “cancelled” by obnoxious white teenage girls who love to seem with it and screech RACISM! at the drop of the hat.

I also think we 're on our way to a Crystal win.

Also, I don't understand why she didn't have a mullet reveal during the JLo lip-sync. Some girls!

The decision to make it a tie could not have been a spontaneous one. The show operates on a budget. A big part of that budget is the $100,000 payout at the end, which is financed or underwritten by someone. And you know for damned sure RuPaul did not put up the money himself. He has said on his podcast that he has paid over $50,000 for cosmetic dental care. He’s very wealthy. If he registers the cumulative amount he has paid for dental work, then he definitely did not put out $100k of his own money to award a second winner. And that means someone else agreed to double the grand prize. That doesn’t happen spontaneously in the moment. It had to have been planned in consultation with someone involved with the business and the sponsorship of the show.

maybe not spontaneous, but it was very rushed. that editing job was a mess.

Aqueria is a mystery to me. How could someone so young be able to have the creative vision that she has and be able to absolutely nail the execution, down to the smallest detail. She is focused and driven like few others on the planet. Next level.

R399, let’s not go nuts. Nobody’s perfect. Great visual eye, utter lack of charm or personality.

R399=Raja typing while wearing a kimono

R399 And she does it all without her mommy's help!

I don’t get the fixation on Aquaria or Violet. At all. “Perfect” is boring to me, I guess. Gigi barely outgrew the perfectly boring classification for me because of her robot act, including the comebacks.

I think that an under-appreciated strength of this show is its variety and diversity. I don’t mean diversity in the current pop-culture sense, but the performance and presentation diversity. Almost every season, there’s someone who is basically a human cartoon up against a guy who could pass as a slightly odd-looking but beautiful giant of a woman, against some hardworking and athletic dude in makeup, against a gymnast, against a comedian. It’s not comparing apples and oranges; it’s comparing apples and oranges and bananas and pomegranates and quinces and gooseberries and black currants.

I don’t get the fixation on Aquaria or Violet. At all. “Perfect” is boring to me, I guess. Gigi barely outgrew the perfectly boring classification for me because of her robot act, including the comebacks.

I think that an under-appreciated strength of this show is its variety and diversity. I don’t mean diversity in the current pop-culture sense, but the performance and presentation diversity. Almost every season, there’s someone who is basically a human cartoon up against a guy who could pass as a slightly odd-looking but beautiful giant of a woman, against some hardworking and athletic dude in makeup, against a gymnast, against a comedian. It’s not comparing apples and oranges; it’s comparing apples and oranges and bananas and pomegranates and quinces and gooseberries and black currants.

Am I the only one who thinks Crystal should have been sent home several episodes back? She seems nice enough but has nowhere near the skills and talent as the others.

No, R405

RuPaul is turned on by Crystal, and so it was inevitable he would be in the final four.

No, he lacks the qualities, but so do all the other Season 12 queens. For the second year in a row, everyone is less than the best, and there's not even anyone at the level if Yvie Oddly this season, who at least approximated something and someone interesting, different, on top of her game and with a persona striking enough to merit the publicity.

GiGi and Heidi were 2-3 years too soon. Sherry Felon was a one-note clown who obviously was a less-manic, more dangerous Mimi Imfurst. The pageant queen is just a pageant queen and Crystal is a Grade B Smiling Clown whose "aesthetic" is Shriners Circus and whose mullet is a greasy, creepy mess.

Cox is a dude in drag with no spark. And so on. They've run out of worthy queens willing to sell themselves and their stories/edits/images to feed the Monster and WOW. Plus the commercial shilling is so bad there are 4-5 shows going on at once and the distractions are watering down the brand.

Canada? Christ. Britain was bad enough. Thailand's seasons are better than the US 12, and they're not that good anyway. The third celebrity show was the best episode of any of the Drag Race episodes in four years.

Off topic but what’s the trend with the little dash of white above the lips on these queens? Gigi does it and I think Jan did? It looks stupid.

The problem with RPDR is you have queens who grew up watching it and to quote Asia "your whole perception of drag is what you see on RuPaul's Drag Race." There are too many young Lewk queens. I give them props for getting Widow, Crystal, Heidi, Aiden nad Jaida in there who are not CA or NY queens but they need more of the girls in the flyover states. I would love to see a season of just queens from all red states - who voted for Trump (minus Florida, of course, we have seen enough Florida queens).

I 'm with R409. I d love them to bring in all queens who voted for Trump. Then Id love them to bring in a giant padlock and a huge can of gasoline.

r410 lol not the queens, the states that voted for trump - Like a queen from Oaklahoma, Texas, Ohio, Georgia etc...

Are “female impersonators” and drag queens one and the same? I grew up in the 80s and 90s and sometimes saw people like this and Dame Edna on talk shows and considered them to be novelty comedians and they were obviously very talented insofar as making people laugh and presenting professionally. But they never did the glamazon supermodel cheesy musical thing—is that a RuPaul original creation?

I think the show does a decent job of having a mix of queens from different areas of the country. Every season there are always a few from Flyoveria. I do miss having one Puerto Rican queen (who actually lives on the island) per season, but R203 explained upthread why that's not happening anymore.

I will say that Seasons 9 and 10 each had one or two too many queens from the New York area. And those were the two wokest seasons - hmm, coincidence? 🤔

I’d love to see Crystal on an All Stars season, but win this one... no. It’s got to be Jaida for me. I know some say she’s too pageant-y, but that Prince by way of Vanity outfit and lip sync of last episode proves Jaida has IT.

R399, Oh, please. That spoilt brat has no creative vision. Giovanni Palandrania comes from a comfortable middle class upbringing. His mommy and daddy financed his partying, drug habits and drag wardrobe. He had the connections beforehand and Sharon Needles was his drag mother. Just look at what a mess and lazy performer he's been after his season. Nothing of substance whatsoever.

If you watch some of the seasons with the PR folks - you can see it. April Carrion was wearing a Kandy Ho t-shirt on her season, not that it did them any good - short of Yara Sophia I don't think any PR queens have made it to top 4.

At one time April and Kandy's house, the Doll House, was dying to get Kandy's drag sister, Queen Bee Ho, on the show. She's a talent performer and a seasoned pageant queen, but she can't speak a lick of [italic]ingles.[/italic]

I think the biggest factor to the win will be "Who is most likely to draw a crowd to a stage show?"

^ Are you high? That is the least consideration. Kennedy Davenport and Latrice draw crowds at every stage show. Jinkx briefly drew crowds to a tour. Shangela sells out shows. But Dragcon and merch and WoW shows is the only thing that RuPaul makes money from. Trixie and Katya, blech. Yvie Oddley I don't even get that bitch. And I'm not that old. But the fandom doesn't like her because she's not a performer or a makeup cameleon or an instagram story? But she is. What she isn't is a drag queen in my mind. He's a nasty bitch. Crystal is versatile and conceptual in ways that Yvie could never hope to be. And I don't think Crystal should win either.

When Ru chose Sasha over more deserving winners (Shea and Trinity) I got it. Sasha did give a great lip sync to a beautiful Whitney song and he's a talented conceptual queen. But it was a fixed game in my head. With some truth. Others feel that way about Violet. Violet was neck and no neck with Ginger Minj. Violet did turn it out in a finale performance, but Ginger had the resume. Ginger had edited as a terrible bitter bitch, because she was.

I think Violet IS the pivotal winner between old and new Drag Race. And Violet was pretty great. Someone paid for her amazing looks, but they were amazing. She's conceptual and arty and smart and antisocial and Katya and Miss Fame came to love her. The weirdos of Season 7. You can't find a more old school at the mic host drag queen than Ginger Minj. She's also fucking talented. Was raised doing Xtian films and went into to many community theatre productions. Bitch won Snatch Game and the John Waters challenge. Nuff said. But Violet was not only a look queen, but something new. Aloof and a bit nasty. Young as fuck with some porn in her resume. Her attitude sucked but the looks were beyond someone who was going to lip synch to Whitney or Britney or Ariana. Her whole show was new. Don't sleep on Violet. Ginger Minj shot her own self that season. Just a bit too mean. Because she had it in the bag. Then Violet did her burlesque in the finale and BOOM!

I'm team Jaida this season and would otherwise be for Sherry Pie. Talent has nothing to do with age or looks. And there are all kinds of winners. But lets not pretend that anyone other than Jaida or Gigi should win. Crystal is a weirdo that amuses RuPaul. I hated when Aquaria won, but I love it when she says "BonJor." He's amusing. There's some wacky boy in there. But I'd rather see a flawless pageant queen than some instagram job who thinks that putting a belt around his skinny boy tits brings it to the runway. Drag Race went off the rails when they decided they were the Met Gala. Stupid.

Violet on the other hand was that bitch. Real kink and real Dior and extreme corsetry. Whatever he knew and however he knew it - she does it well.

Thanks, Violet/r419.

Welcome. R420. You're now a pet peeve of mine.

R421, "ASMR ... FOR FETISH? GROUNDBREAKING."

I would love to have out with RuPaul. I bet she is a riot when she lets her hair down.

[quote]This thread is about season 12 not the other queens from others seasons. Start your own thread about that, please.

r421/r424, YOU brought up Violet I didn't. So what are you not understanding my quote you quoted?

[quote]Like Violet the judges are enamored with her runway. They can't see past it. If Gigi's mother wins it will be another Violet. And where is she now?

Huh, R425? What didn't you do. You've proven yourself boring AND nuts from a at least two different devices on this thread. Now go vote for one of your own posts again. Jerk me a soda.

r426, why are you obsessing over what I've posted up thread? What's your point? You got your feeling hurt over my Violet joke? You are proving you're a little crazy the silly quotes that mean nothing? Take a pill, dear.

r426, one device. But you are proving yourself with the crazy multi device story in your head.

I think it's obvious why Ru usually picks the younger fashion queens to win, they remind him of himself.

All those votes - just for yourself R428? In a few hours your benign and colorless posts will have 4 votes each!! Everyone knows your number. Go on. Who else gonna love you R428? Vote for your own posts before they even land. From your second and third device. What a fuckin ugly tool you are. Gross. I block both of you, but you come back with more. Always so boring and obvious. Easy put downs. Enjoy the show. Be gone this time.

I agree with some of the others who feel Jackie won the lip sync over Crystal. Does anyone else also think Jackie's look was much better than Crystal's blue velvet hodgepodge? I get that she was trying to go for unusual, but it simply wasn't visually appealing to me.

Crystals outfit makes "music" when it moves. It was in tribute to a conceptual designer - but made by that purportedly talented weirdo Mondo, from Project Runway. He only designs for drag queens now, and only the ones who can afford it. So a lot on RPDR. Give me Jaida, Heidi and even Gigi's mom anyday. Drag race has become a $$$ drag on the runway. Sherry Pie's combined looks must have cost at least 20 grand.

r430, you are fucking crazy but you are the "you're using multiple devices troll" screaming at people who don't praise your every thought. It's a game show, honey. That's it. You've taken this waaaaaaay beyond normal. Knowing every tiny detail of a game show tell us who you really are. Sad.

I'm disappointed to learn that the Nick Cave who designed the Soundsuits that inspired Crystal is not the Nick Cave I thought it was.

This runway was underwhelming. Crystal, it was creative but something about it was off. It looked like she had air trapped underneath and the boots were just a no-no. Jackie looked like she wrapped herself up in Christmas paper and blew a smurf. Jaida, beautiful but pageantry as usual. Gigi, why are we in the eighties? You weren't even born then. And the braces were not cute at all.

The RPDR twitter account is doing a survey - asking people to tweet #teamgigi or #teamjaida or #teamcrystal so maybe the winner will be the one with the most tweets! i am sure they use it to gauge public opinion.

[quote]I would love to have out with RuPaul. I bet she is a riot when she lets her hair down.

Actually, Rupaul is known to be humorless bordering on unpleasant,

She was something else on Terry Gross:

“That’s sixty THOUSAND, Terry. Sixty THOUSAND.”

It’s actually embarrassing that Sharon is Aquaria’s drag mother. She has none of her drag mother’s charm or transgressive attitude. All her Twitter is is lecturing everyone how the world works and a bunch of cringy apologizes for being white and acting like straight women are the most important people in the drag world. I guess she knows she’s at minute 9 of people still giving a fuck.

I’d love to know what Sharon REALLY thinks about Aquaria.

Can one of your Twitter queens let us know how the top three are ranking in the voting? I had to quit Drag Race twitter over the obnoxious fans and the queens who can’t stop posting and clogging up the timeline.

R436 They’ve been doing this for years now. RuPaul says “hashtag ______” during every episode and a hashtag keyword is put onto the screen.

I’m sure the producers keep tabs on the popularity of contestants with social media through use of hashtags, likes and mentions. It’s also straightforward marketing. Every hashtag is an online campaign. People see one trending or tweeted by someone they follow and some of those people look them up to see what they are about. It’s an online form of “word of mouth” marketing.

It’s also a way to make the audience feel like they are being heard. If Jaida is your favorite, and you just wait a week and then see the result, that’s one form of entertainment—a cliffhanger. If she is your favorite and you tweet #TeamJaida, then you’ve increased your investment. You’re now participating on a team. Whether the winner was predetermined or your tweet factored into choosing the winner, it doesn’t really matter that much insofar as your fandom. You’re now part of a “team,” and you may always feel invested because you joined that team. We are very programmed to stick with the tribes we choose in this world.

Loved Gigi's prom outfit!

I too was surprised that Jackie was eliminated. Oh well, neither of them were likely to win the crown so in a way it doesn't matter. I like Crystal a lot but I'll actually be disappointed if she wins. Jaida and Gigi are much more deserving. It's hard to say with how Sherry's screen time has been whittled down, but I think she may have been the strongest contender. WoW dodged a bullet for sure.

This season had no shortage of young queens with a lot of potential. It made for fun viewing, though it might have been smarter of them to wait a few more years before going on.

The moment Jackie Cox took off her shoes in the lip sync, she should’ve been immediately disqualified. At least she didn’t pull her wig off I guess.

Is there a taboo about removing one's wig onstage or something?

You must be new to Drag Race r444. Ru hates when Queen's remove their wig, they always lose (obviously revealing a wig underneath is different).

And I agree r443, Jackie clearly beat Crystal except for the fact she took off her shoes to do it. For that alone Crystal deserved the win.

But when will we see Jackie’s cock?

Removing the wig at the end of a performance used to be required for Female Impersonators to perform legally in many places.

r445 Heidi's wig came off during her LSFYL with Nicki Doll, but she still won because she treated it with humor but other than that - if you take off your wig, you lose.

Twitter stats: Jaida 24K likes, 8.7K retweets Gigi 18K likes, 5.7K retweets Crystal 38K likes 13k retweets

I don't know to tell how many times the hashtag has been used but those are the stats on the posts that asked about who do you want to win, use #team...

[quote]But when will we see Jackie’s cock?

Whenever he wears those shorts.

I'm surprised to see the crazy fandom rally behind quirky Crystal. I had assumed that they'd adore Gigi the clothes hanger. Of course, the fandom would never rally behind Jaida because, well, you know. I like all three which is nice considering the crap finalists and winners over the last few seasons.

The "at home" reunion will probably be a messy shitshow like the "at home" Atlanta Housewives reunion. The new storming offstage is unplugging your webcam. ZZzzzzz.

r445. that's what clinched the crown for Sasha Velour.

They've already started advertising 'Meet The Queens,' Canada's version of RDR lol What the hell is going on?? They haven't even began ALL Stars yet or wrapped up this season.

oh come on R451, Crystal is latina so don't play the race card. People don't support Jaida in the same numbers because as polished as she is, she doesn't offer anything new or quirky. Yvie had the biggest fan support for season 11, and she's well, you know.

I tried watching, "The Switch", but as it's not subtitled, it was okay. What struck me about those particular queens is that they try to look more fishy than over the top. Maybe they're saving the over the top looks for the end.

Drag Race Thailand is the best of all the franchises. Those queens can be bitchy, have heart and look amazing.

Ru has aspergers and rich person syndrome. His stage personality is a fake, just like mean Ellen.

Most successful, effective onscreen personalities are “fake.” They are performed. By people whose job title is ‘performer.’ Average, everyday people being their genuine selves don’t translate any better on camera than average, everyday faces with no makeup do. Anyone on camera has a made-up face and a made-up persona. And we wouldn’t want to watch them otherwise.

Gigi really hurt herself when she became shady and full of herself at the midway point. She started off as young and likable, but then her true colors started showing and, surprise, she's just another bitchy queen. I would take sweet Heidi over her all day long.

On the opposite side, Jaida started off as unlikable and ended the season as one of my favorites.

Whatever. RuPaul is a strange man off camera.

Jadia is very southern pageant queen, and she is at the top of that style. It must hard comparing different genres. But she has the southern lady drag down pat.

RuPaul wouldn’t be RuPaul without being a strange man.

Jaida is from Wisconsin

Why do some threads—like this one—routinely lock up and then reload when I click in the comments box, while most other threads do not?

It always takes one or two reloads of the page before I can comment in this thread and select others.

Why do some threads—like this one—routinely lock up and then reload when I click in the comments box, while most other threads do not?

It always takes one or two reloads of the page before I can comment in this thread and select others.

I don't like clown drag that isn't transgressive or edgy. Crystal just wants to be loved, and that always has been a huge turn-off on Drag Race when it comes to winning.

In other words, Crystal's aesthetic is tweenish and unicorn-rainbow. No. No matter how much Ru Paul wants to fuck him.

You beat me to it r462, Jaida was born and raised in Wisconsin r460 and is a Milwaukee/Chicago drag queen. She is definitely not southern.

The South doesn't have a monopoly on pageants.

Rupaul seems to have consumed a large amount of new-agey spiritual, self-discovery and human potential books so when he talks as himself it's often a regurgitation of all of that housewifey gibberish. I'm sure he's a big proponent of "The Secret" and all that blather. It really makes him sound like a well-informed idiot, but then everyone will point out how financially well off he is as some sort of proof that he must indeed be a sage. It doesn't always work like that.

Hard work and some luck also helps dummies succeed if they are focused enough. Rupaul also didn't even hit the "not still struggling" phase of his career until his late 40s with Drag Race and Drag Con, so I detect some degree of exhaustion and bitterness to him. He's certainly done very well from sheer determination and hustle, but none of this was guaranteed and it took a long time to achieve.

Fracking is far more lucrative than drag ever could be.

Rupaul and Lady Bunny came up together and were roommates during the whole club kid scene in NYC. Now Ru is a multimillionaire and Lady Bunny is screaming out Bernie talking points on Twitter. Ru had that certain something that just translated to mainstream acceptance and success. Ru comes off as someone who came from a rough beginning and made it through hard work and a whole lot of luck and is just grateful and has hooked on to that new agey stuff to help him organize it all in his head.

Some people need to put things in boxes and assign otherworldly explanations to their success. I'm glad he chose the new age feel good stuff over that Jesus nonsense.

[quote]Some people need to put things in boxes and assign otherworldly explanations to their success. I'm glad he chose the new age feel good stuff over that Jesus nonsense.

That new age feel good shit is just as ridiculous as that Jesus nonsense.

RuPaul is also very witty. He has a quick, dry wit and a deep knowledge of Old Hollywood history, camp and the film and music industries. He’s a master of pop culture, and he has a very well-honed camp-based conversational improv skill. People have to work to keep up with him in conversation, and you see that on the show and hear it on the podcast. He’s not deeply intellectual but he really has a masterful working knowledge and a gift for conversation that have taken him far.

This season's queens really got a bum deal because of Miss Corona. Gigi, Jaida, Crystal, Jackie and Heidi probably lost $100k+ in income from not being able to make appearances this year. There won't be much interest in most of them after the season is over. Gigi is the only one that I can envision having a decent career long-term.

Yep r472. It costs a lot of money to get ready for Drag Race, and given they can't tour they aren't going to recoup those costs and take advantage of the exposure. The year after your season airs is the best year for these queens to make money.

Ru was also smart to take the ball and run with media opportunities and diversify. Also Ru is gorgeous and glamorous (really, I've seen him in person when he was in his Versace homage for, "AJ and the Queen), whereas Lady Bunny is not. People are always subconsciously receptive to beauty, especially if there is a bit of self-deprecation thrown in.

RuPaul is very insecure about being a high school drop-out so he fills his head with self-help junk and spews it out to “prove” how smart and enlightened he is.

Is he in recovery? Sometimes he sounds like an ex-addict with all his talk of “self-realization” and other meaningless mumbo jumbo.

I don't know, but I think he's emulating the Oprah formula, and you see how successful she was at it.

[quote]Ru had that certain something that just translated to mainstream acceptance and success. Ru comes off as someone who came from a rough beginning and made it through hard work and a whole lot of luck and is just grateful...

Exactly. RuPaul has always known it isn't about "the act", it's about "the story". Through the "Supermodel" hit record and video Ru painted a story of himself and his life, one that anyone could identify with and he walked that thin line until the Drag Race show finally catapulted him to a much bigger regular paycheck instead of doing endless gigs here and there for twenty years ever could.

Lady Bunny is a idiot and complete Berner. Anyone with a brain should be able to see through a fraud and empty suit like Bernie Sanders, but no, not Bunny! That's why she's still doing bar gigs and DJing when she can get the job. I wonder if she relies on nightlife smarties like Chi Chi Valenti and Johnny Dynell for those bookings?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the appeal of Lady Bunny. She's not especially funny and she's sure as hell not great looking as a drag queen.

I think Lady Bunny's shtick is that she is a throwback to the wild and raunchy era of drag queens.

“Crystal is Latina”

Since when??? 😳😳

There is an affectation that Ru puts on that seems disingenuous. It is like Ryan Seacrest when he talks. There are moments where Ru is human but they are few and far between. I think that is why he and Michelle work so well together - Michelle is Ru's humanity interpreter.

“There is an affectation that Ru puts on that seems disingenuous. It is like Ryan Seacrest when he talks.”

It’s called “hosting” in the US. In the UK, it’s called “presenting.” It’s considered a skill in the entertainment business.

Google tells me Crystal has a white dad and a mexican mom r480. I had no clue until that poster brought it up. Don't think it was mentioned on the show.

What R482 said. That’s a good observation.

Don't forget to vote for your own posts R484!! Jesus loves you. Your tag teaming of your opinions on this site are famous and hilarious. You're not smart enough to assume another persona. So keep supporting yourself. Weirdo. RuPaul is not a great guy and is seriously creepy. A good host with lines fed to him through his earpiece. He is a one of a kind brand, but he didn't achieve it from hard work any more than good luck and greed. Most everyone knows and accepts this.

Good luck to you in your future upvotes. Some of your most inane posts have 23 likes?? How does that happen bitch @ R484?

This is what I call a good observation.

I'm gunning for Crystal to win. While Gigi is no doubt very high fashion, she's also very young and has a lot to learn. Jaida has a great personality and a lot of her drag remind me of older drag (from earlier seasons). Very pageant-y, high hair, and very polished. Crystal however has the personality, her make-up skills and her look make her instantly recognizable, and not to mention RuPaul is in love with her (or maybe it's just the mullet).

r482 I know what presenting and hosting is. A good host puts it on for the presenting part and can be human in other situations. RuPaul, Seacrest they sound like they are on camera hosting 24/7 - it is that over enunciation and way of speaking that seems fake and phony. The most human I have ever seen Ru is during Jasmine Master's season where they were doing a mini-challenge to soul train line dancing and Jasmine comes out with a loaf of bread dancing and Ru just mutters, where did you get a loaf of bread? Other than that he sounds very affected.

I don't think you ever see the "real" Ru or any real versions of celebrities at that level. There are people spending a lot of time trying to get Ru cancelled. So there is TV Ru, Interaction with the Contestants Ru, and Real Ru that only a handful of close friends and his husband ever get to see. I think there maybe one, maybe two girls, each season that he really sees something in. The rest he are just game show contestants. For instance, I think he genuinely liked Heidi. I also think he liked Silky. If you notice, he tends to gravitate towards a certain type of queen.

That's a great summary of RuPaul's true talent. Drag Race is theoretically the search for the next RuPaul but on their best day 99% of the contestants couldn't stand in for Ru. Maybe Trixie. And Courtney, who didn't win, is having the most Ru-ish career.

Oh, and of course the reddit teens love Crystal. She's cheerful and "different" but a little bland, the perfect screen to project onto.

Reddit is all about Jaida winning. They like Crystal but they are only about Queens of Color (black queens) this year as they feel they don't get the same love as other queens so they are focused on supporting black queens. Their only exceptions are Trixie and Katya - they still post about them as well but otherwise posts about white queens get downvoted. They are very anti-Gigi. They waffle on the not white or black queens - some support them, some feel they are still taking attention away from the black queens whose efforts they want to spotlight.

R485, you sensitive little girl:. You can’t just make up stuff. Your accusation is a lie; I simply agreed with a another poster. Why are you so butt hurt about someone disagreeing with you? And what are you talking about regarding upvotes—I understand the concept but, again, you’re making things up. Get help.

^ 7 upvotes in less than 20 minutes.

Sorry, I have to say this: @ R484 I made an innocuous observation. Followed by an attack at R485. He was upset I guess that I contradicted him. He accused me of voting for my posts (what’s the point of that anyway? It’s meaningless.) Now I’m getting all these ‘likes’, which never happens to me and I can’t help but believe it’s the offended poster at R485. This is such a great thread about Drag Race and I was on topic about it but have riled up another poster. Very disturbed person.

R483, Crystal referenced being of Latin American descent a few times on the show. During The Ball Ball she mentioned being inspired by Carmen Miranda and wanting to show his Mexican side or something to that effect.

I really doubt RuPaul is influenced by Reddit.

RuPaul could really give two shits about what the kids are complaining about this week on Reddit or Twitter.

Whoever the posters are on here who are saying the fandom is racist and only supports white queens needs to take a quick trip to Reddit. As someone mentioned above, they are ONLY about black queens. They stanned Widow von Du for weeks despite her crummy attitude and busted looks. And the patron saint of that sub is Shea Coulee.

Yes, there are the occasional racist comments, but they get showered with hundreds and hundreds of downvotes and they’re quickly banned. They appear at a ratio of 1 to 10,000. All they ever talk about is how evil “white cis gay men” are. You can’t criticize a black queen on there for any minor thing without being called a racist.

As far as Gigi goes, they find her boring and reductive. And I can’t help but I agree.

I agree Ru doesn't care about Reddit. I think it is producers who choose the winner and it is likely determined fairly early . I am sure Ru gives some input. Social media presence and success is definitely a factor. They like queens who can get bigger mainstream audiences - although Yvie hasn't done much and BLH and Vanjie are both more popular online. They definitely factor in diversity / inclusiveness. i don't know if the final lipsyncs count much or not.

r499, I agree with you. The producers have a storyline to tell, roles to fill, and they edit the show accordingly. It's all mapped out. I do think the finale lip syncs matter, however. There is no clearer indication of this than with Sasha Velour. There was simply no way to edit around her iconic lip sync performances on the night, so she had to be crowned the winner. If Sasha and Shea had performed comparably then I'm certain it would have gone to Shea, as she had the stronger season overall.

R498 I think it depends on which the 500 Drag Race subreddits, though. I think the main one is filled with tweenagers writing fanfic about Crystal and Gigi.

^I think it depends on which OF the 500 Drag Race subreddits you are looking at**

The main sub (/r/rupaulsdragrace) sets the overall tone and I think is one of the most populated TV show sub on Reddit. Then there are satellite subs: /r/gonewildrpdr which shows the queens and peripheral non-entities naked. The absolute trash heap is /r/RPDRdrama. I almost think you guys should check it out. It’s the petty drama of the day, but it has some of the most truly psychotic moderators you’ll ever see on the internet. They’re totally power mad and they’re in the middle of this way with a drag race YouTube vlogger named Jakey Once. They altered the rules so that if anyone defends him, they get an automatic ban. There are some master posts about it. It’s messy and hilarious. It’s basically a hivemind of fat teenage girls with serious personality disorders.

R503 r/rpdrcringe is usually good for a laugh. I can never get enough of vintage Robbie Turner cringe.

I think Sherry Pie will crash the reunion and give them all a piece of her mind. That's the rumor anyway.

504 - are those real posts ?

The drama sub sounds fun, will check it out.

Here is your winner

[quote] I think it depends on which the 500 Drag Race subreddits, though. I think the main one is filled with tweenagers writing fanfic about Crystal and Gigi.

[bold]CRYGI[/bold]

Holy shit. I fell into a rabbit hole on that drama sub reddit. Those people are batshit.

Makes me glad to be back here with you silly bitches.

I really doubt Ru has heard of Reddit.

But this ISN’T Reddit, Blanche! It isn’t!!

This is DL. Why is this whole thread now suddenly about what teenagers write on another website?

The DL fandom’s trajectory, at least, is predictable. (I don’t care about Reddit and won’t check it.)

If you to back to the beginning of discussions about this season here, you’ll see that there was a near consensus that Gigi was the winner and that this season was going to be boring because she was OBVIOUSLY pre-selected to win. Flash forward to the end of the season and people are tired of her bland perfection. An inevitable backlash.

Interesting too that the early discussions here did name one major competitor for Gigi—the French one whose name I can’t even remember. Because she was another modelesque one. And some people said Dahlia, who didn’t last long.

I certainly didn’t pick the winner from the beginning. My favorite at first was Jan, and then Heidi.

And remember when this thread was overtaken by people who by mid-season convinced themselves that Gothy Betty Boop Aiden was going to be revealed as transgender toward the end, and was going to be awarded the title just to shut up people on Reddit? 👀

All this speculating didn’t really pan out.

How can we feel smug if we don't make fun of Reddit, R511?

Though my brief forays there didn't give me the impression that there is anything approaching a consensus on who the winner should be.

I thought that Widow would go all the way, and Nicki and Jan would last longer. Still think Jan got a raw deal. Didn't think Crystal and Heidi would get as far as they did.

At least I correctly guessed that Jackie wouldn't make it to the finale.

Reddit doesn’t really say as much about the general fan base as Instagram does. Instagram shows fan base is younger female and mainly loves skinny rich white girls even if they have little talents. That’s why Farrah Moan has way more followers than black queens with talent. I bet these girls don’t consider themselves racist it’s just a preference to them.

Reddit gets really loud (hence all the discussion) woke fans but they are a minority compared to clueless teen girls and their frau moms.

Ru even joked in the past that if this show went mainstream then that would mean he sold out. It’s clear that since VH1 came along Ru doesn’t get final call, VH1 does. In season 7, when this started you could tell Ru didn’t like Pearl but the show pushed her anyway. That’s also the season where being young, pretty, white and wealthy became a winning formula. And that’s when queens of color started getting more online hate even if the fan base was getting credit for becoming more progressive simply cause younger fans came along and outnumbered gay viewers.

“ That’s why Farrah Moan has way more followers than black queens with talent. I bet these girls don’t consider themselves racist it’s just a preference to them.”

If you’re talking solely about Instagram, then it probably is not racism that drives the appreciation for veneer over performative talent. Instagram is just photos. And potentially very short videos. That’s all it is. So one shouldn’t expect talent to be appreciated via Instagram.

That’s like lamenting that Vogue subscribers care more about people being pretty and what clothes they wear than about their singing abilities. Of course they do. That’s by design.

Social media has had a straightforward dumbing-down, short-attention-span trajectory. First it was Friendster—about making friends. Then it was MySpace—about making friends plus expressing yourself with photos, playlists of favorite music, bios and blog entries. Then Facebook stripped away the personal-expressiveness aspect—no space for a bio or self-expression other than photos, just status updates. Then Twitter was like, ugh, people are expressing themselves too much; let’s just give them enough space for trite fortune cookie fortunes. And it was a hit. And then Instagram realized these newly dumb people want Vogue, but without the annoying articles and words. They just wanted to look at themselves and hot people. And so here we are.

“Ru even joked in the past that if this show went mainstream then that would mean he sold out.”

Yes, he doesn’t say so explicitly but he implies regularly via his podcast that his motivation now is to accumulate money.

“It’s clear that since VH1 came along Ru doesn’t get final call, VH1 does.”

That’s not a secret, either. Although, again, he has not said so expressly, RuPaul has clearly telegraphed this via the scripting of the show. In all early episodes, he said, “I’ve listened to the judges, but the final decision is mine and mine alone.” He stopped saying that when the series left Logo.

R510 - she probably has but does gaf at this stage

I remember when S1 was out one of the producers(?) of the show was on TWOP and said how Ru reads the feedback there and really liked hearing what people thought.

Sounds legit, especially after all of the Michael K./dlisted references in the early era (Phoebe Price, Hot Slut of the Day, Detective LaToya, and the walking children in nature meme).

Speaking of walking children in nature, I just rewatched the All Stars season (the first season) with her and I find her endlessly amusing. Except I noted since she was forcibly teamed up with someone, when they played a Newlyweds Game-type game that required the partners to match answers, she could not say anything coherent. I don’t remember who her partner was, but she asked Tammie to please try, and she said in her confessional that she may have made a mistake in choosing Tammie. Tammie seemed daftly unaffected.

It made me wonder if she has schizoaffective disorder or something. Instead of cleverly pulling non-sequiturs from the ether, maybe she just has a thought and language disorder. She seems utterly incoherent.

Speaking of walking children in nature, I just rewatched the All Stars season (the first season) with her and I find her endlessly amusing. Except I noted since she was forcibly teamed up with someone, when they played a Newlyweds Game-type game that required the partners to match answers, she could not say anything coherent. I don’t remember who her partner was, but she asked Tammie to please try, and she said in her confessional that she may have made a mistake in choosing Tammie. Tammie seemed daftly unaffected.

It made me wonder if she has schizoaffective disorder or something. Instead of cleverly pulling non-sequiturs from the ether, maybe she just has a thought and language disorder. She seems utterly incoherent.

Nina Flowers was Tammie's team mate on AS1 - she stuck by her to the end.

The show has been pretty open about letting the audience know that it's the team of producers who make the choice of who stays and who goes. RuPaul is just one of the producers so he doesn't have final say, he gets just one vote.

The lip syncs are fun but have nothing to do with who sashays and who shauntays. That decision has already been made before the music starts.

How would Sherry crash the reunion if it's a virtual feed? Is she a techno wiz?

r523 maybe one of the other queens shared the number? lol.

Oh she'll find a way........she'll find a way........

Everyone thought Tammie was a hot ass mess back when S1 aired. She only became a legend after the fact (and largely due to, again, dlisted). She got a raw deal in the edit considering what cunts her teammates were (both Akashia AND Bebe).

It's why the queens want to be memeable. Alyssa only became beloved after she became a meme toward the very end of her season or even after. At the viewing parties I was the one lone Alyssa fan at the bar. Everyone hated the Coco/Alyssa thing at the time. She was not set up that way in her edit.

Tammie became a legend during the season 1 reunion when she came for Santino and Merle when RU yelled at her she was a god damn star. Tammie uttered the now iconic I don't see you walking children in nature line. Alyssa - well credit the B. Ames drop dead gorgeous remix for making Alyssa an internet sensation.

Tammie is cuckoo, but in an undeniably entertaining way. I've watched her Instagram live streams a few times for five or 10 minutes at a time. She is so bizarre that she's legitimately unpredictable, while always maintaining a low-to-moderate level of energy. And her words...they do seem schizoaffective to me. Anyway, I can watch her with fascination for short batches of time, and then it gets tiring because it doesn't add up to anything.

Someone should write about the future of drag. When you look at We're Here HBO the emphasis is so very positive and self-affirming. I guess I'm wondering if I'm also looking at an attempt to expand the market. Is it weird or good or or or that they're putting women in drag? But not as drag kings.

I wouldn't say instagram is really all about the skinny white .

Top five RPDR on Instagram with 2 million (ish) followers are:

1. Bianca (Cuban / Honduran) 2. Trixie (Native American / Caucasian) 3. Adore (Latino) 4. Kim Chi (Korean) 5. Katya (Caucasian)

Other queens with high Instagram followings (1.5 million ish): Manila, Shangela, Alaska, Alyssa, Violet, Naomi, Sasha, Aquaria, Vanjie and Plastique (5 are Caucasian, 5 are not)

r514, Naomi Smalls has 1.5 M followers, Farrah Moan has 1M, which belies your notion.

Trixie is Native American? I knew she was a sister!

r532 part - like 1/16th or something like that.

I just checked and Katya has bumped Kim for the #4 spot!

The next batch of queens who sit about 1 million followers are: Raja, Sharon, Willam, Latrice, Jinkx, Detox, Courtney, Ben, Milk, Miss Fame, Pearl, Bob, Trinity, Farrah, Cracker, Kameron, Monet, Brooke, and Yvie

The thing that makes Alyssa so legendary is that she was just being *herself*, and wasn't trying to become a meme or push a catchphrase. What we saw was just Alyssa BEING Alyssa. Until season 5 aired, she genuinely thought that she wasn't funny and was 'just' an elegant pageant queen.

Compare that to when her drag daughter, Laganja Estranja, competed a year later and seemed to only speak in cliches and affectations. I think she saw her drag mother's popularity and wanted the same for herself, but you can't force something like that. All she ended up doing was annoying everyone else; by the time she was eliminated, [italic]everyone[/italic] (fans, judges, the other girls - including her friend Adore) wanted her to go.

And Tammie Brown.... there's someone that's on another planet 24/7. That's just who she is. Makes for some great TV moments, but isn't the way to succeed on a show where one needs structure and to follow direction. It's a shame she didn't even try to lip sync, because everyone wanted her to send Akashia home that day.

Exactly, R527! The B Ames mix was the tipping point for Alyssa.

I personally always loved "THAT SHAKE N GO YOU GOT ON YOUR HEAD?" But alas it was not immortalized there.

And Tammie had that AFTER Ru told her how dlisted named her Hot Slut of the Day. <3

Trixie is 1/2 Native (mother) and didn't even know her Caucasian father. Brian (Trixie) is Ojibwe from the Bad River Band of the Lake Superior Tribe of Chippewa Indians. However I think since his family was really poor and there was a lot of alcoholism and abuse - it isn't a really positive or pretty picture of being Native American and so he doesn't talk about it much. He was removed from his home as a child and lived with extended family.

I'm floored, R537! Shows me right for going on phenotype. He just looks like an average, pallid white roly poly (like me).

But that's with the shaved head. Now that you've said he is Ojibwe, I think I can see it when I look at younger pictures of him with dark hair. His eyes and his smile.

Huh. Isn't that interesting? Thanks for the education!

Let's talk numbers. What does 1M followers mean for a drag queen in terms of Cash.

r538 he occasionally posts pictures with his aunt and mom. I think he did a video with his mom too.

Wow, R540, I hate that I feel this way, but this makes me like him more. His background shouldn't matter at all, but this makes Trixie seem a lot more interesting to me.

R541. I am not a big fan of Trixie the drag queen but I have full respect for Brian and what he has accomplished. To come from the background that he did and to persevere and to make it - kudos to him. Trixie was apparently the name his abusive stepfather called him as a child in mocking him for being feminine / gay so he took it and turned it into something powerful. He saw drag as a way out of generational poverty and went for it. I used to find his self promoting / ego a bit grating but after learning more about his background, I realize why he is so proud of himself.

Trixie's mom and aunt both appear in the WoW documentary "Moving Parts", which is currently on Netflix. You should definitely watch it, R541. In it, Trixie brings up a few dark times from her childhood.

She also mentioned being of Native American descent in the first episode of Season 7.

R543 I remember the story about his step-father and his drag name. Which is a heartwarming story. I didn't register the Native American thing at all. I guess, honestly, when I see people who basically appear (to me) to be white claiming their Native American heritage, I generally interpret it as a personal identifier that people invoke to make them feel special and exceptional. That's not good, but it's a prejudice I have.

One of my coworkers is proud of her Italian heritage, and she has always talked about being Italian with "some Cherokee." Her grandmother has passed along the tribal community to which her family belonged, etc., etc. Soooo she got her Ancesty DNA test, and it revealed that she is mostly Italian, but also has heritage from various Middle Eastern countries as well as Ashkenazi. No Native American. She was bothered and said she didn't believe the results. She called her mother and her mother said, "Oh, honey, I think Grandma made all that Indian stuff up to make us feel special."

Soo...yeah. Many of us at least on the East Coast grew up being told that we have 'a little Cherokee' in us. And we don't.

R543 I remember the story about his step-father and his drag name. Which is a heartwarming story. I didn't register the Native American thing at all. I guess, honestly, when I see people who basically appear (to me) to be white claiming their Native American heritage, I generally interpret it as a personal identifier that people invoke to make them feel special and exceptional. That's not good, but it's a prejudice I have.

One of my coworkers is proud of her Italian heritage, and she has always talked about being Italian with "some Cherokee." Her grandmother has passed along the tribal community to which her family belonged, etc., etc. Soooo she got her Ancesty DNA test, and it revealed that she is mostly Italian, but also has heritage from various Middle Eastern countries as well as Ashkenazi. No Native American. She was bothered and said she didn't believe the results. She called her mother and her mother said, "Oh, honey, I think Grandma made all that Indian stuff up to make us feel special."

Soo...yeah. Many of us at least on the East Coast grew up being told that we have 'a little Cherokee' in us. And we don't.

I wonder what tricks would look like with different makeup. I’m a moderate fan of the show, not a diehard, but her makeup is the reason I don’t connect with her. It’s too distracting.

I went on a whole roller coaster with Trixie. Loved his aesthetic on season 7 but quickly realized he was a great DQ but not a great drag racer. Like him as a person and, even though I enjoy folk/country music, I don't like his music (and don't like any music by *any* of the queens -- that 4th rate disco shit never appealed to me), but he's been carving a spot on bigger and bigger stages. One of my favorite recent musicians, Shakey Graves, even had him up for a bit of a collaboration. Pretty incredible for me to see queens transcend the scene as some of them have.

I liked Trixie's makeup the first time I saw it. (I like Kim Chi's aesthetic, too.)

But since the show requires versatility, it always annoyed me that Trixie was allowed to stick with her trademark, while so many others were penalized for having 'the same look.' Michelle Visage regularly chastises contestants for that, and she does not let them off the hook. But Trixie was never on the hook for some reason, and I think that's unfair.

More than that, I just never thought Trixie was on par with her better competitors. And Brian owed up to that at the beginning of his All Stars season. He said that he was lackluster on his season of RPDR, became very successful off camera, and that he came back to redeem himself and prove he is All Star caliber. And he failed to do it and beat himself up over it. So he was at least honest about that in his confessionals. It wasn't until Ben De La Creme quit the show that the judges suddenly transferred all their approval to Trixie. His performances, as shown (as edited?), did improve markedly from earlier in the season...but he was good mainly by comparison to himself.

It just seems like he absolutely benefited from preferential treatment by the judges/producers, especially the second time around but also the first time (for not forcing him to present his makeup differently), and that made me like him less than I might have otherwise. But also...generally...he just seems dull on camera to me.

His personality is magnetic, but it's a heavy, dour kind of magnetism. It doesn't scream 'winner.'

Omg. I'm watching the morning news and they have a Mommy cook talking about her online cooking show for kiddies. The anchors are asking question and she starts every answer with YAAAAAAAAAAAS! More Gay/Drag culture stolen.

Trixie is the best at fully embracing everything drag race (much like Alaska). She quotes other seasons iconic lines, brings up obscure references (her how does Kasha Davis orgasm had me rolling) and genuinely likes being famous and likes her fans.

r546, here's Trixie wih Kim Chee makeup on:

And Trixie trying to do RuPaul makeup:

R551 aren’t they doing The Boulet Brothers? Season 1 and 2 of The Boulet Brother’s Dragula is fantastic. I found season 3 a bit meh.

It certainly looks like it. Although I do adore Landon Cider from S3.

There is not nearly enough discussion about me on this thread. Talk about me more.

wait, this stopped being about season 12 a while ago lol

It was interesting to see Widow be so self sabotaging on the show. In everyday life she has the biggest head out of any other queen that I personally know. She was so sure she was going to win..... She does have talent, but people in Missouri think she's so great because she dances and can jump off a stage into the splits, but that's about where it ends. I guarantee she never imagined she would've gone home and Crystal would be in the finals.

Widow? Hahaha.....I had forgotten about her fat ass already......

Has anyone from DC ever been on the show? We have drag queens, too. And they might actually say something relevant in the political campaign challenges...

Has anyone from DC ever been on the show? We have drag queens, too. And they might actually say something relevant in the political campaign challenges...

Have you forgot about Tatianna r460? She was a DC-based queen and is one of my favorite personalities that has come through the show.

R561 Thank YOU! I did forget about her...she’s actually from Annandale or somewhere in Northern Virginia and not DC proper. Also one of my favorites. She was smart and witty.

Tatianna was a Chicago queen, no? I think she was great in lots of ways but he's pretty stupid in real life. Too much money and booze and drugs with no real life. I am not judging him from the show either. Tati is not intelligent or politically aware, never mind incisive. She mostly talks about getting drunk, pizza and dick. She likes a lot of boys. A lot of these queens like very feminine guys. Used to surprise me a bit - I would expect opposites to attract or whatever. But drag queens ain't all bottoms, they're just femme. And a lot of them have young pretty boyfriends. Tati is a pretty good dancer btw. Like Jujubee, she doesn't want to travel all the time or pursue being a top level Ru Girl. Jujubee is probably the most popular private event booked queen in Drag Race Herstory. I want him to WIN All Stars 55!!

Girl you are trying to do a purity test about whether her address was in the DC city limits or Virginia r562?

Your city is based on where you perform. She was a DC queen, her homebase was The Town.

In Season 2, Tatianna was billed as coming from Falls Church, VA.

Raven would go on and on and ON in the confessionals about how much Tatianna was an "airhead" and how she had no aspirations aside from being "a girl, and a dumb girl at that".

Yes, the days of Season 2 when the contestants were complete bitches who didn't think about trying being likable for the people on social media

Joey Santolini IS pretty dumb. Tatianna, like Adore doesn't get along with alcohol very well. And is often drunk and fucking things up. This is not where you go for political or coherent conversation.

Tatianna is not from Chicago. She’s from Virginia, and her Instagram states that her location is the DMV—DC, Maryland, Virginia, aka the DC Metro area.

Tatianna is not dumb.

Tatianna is over it. Point blank.

He's dumb. One of the dumbest. A lot of them are quite stupid. Tatianna is not what you see on TV. He's a big dumb dude. Same parts.

I once saw a YouTube comment claiming that Tammie/Keith is schizophrenic but medicated. I've also read that she's a big stoner, so who knows.

I enjoy her web sitcom [italic]The Browns,[/italic] co-starring S6 first boot Kelly Mantle.

I don't understand the dislike of Widow. He seemed harmless enough. I'm not sure what he did that was so awful. He just seemed like a lot of them, hot shit in their small town, but it doesn't translate to Drag Race.

Widow is a shit drag queen who reveled in other people’s’ unhappiness. Oh, and she’s always the victim. Good riddance.

R463, and yet you keep reposting anyhow? Your posts keep showing up as doubles.

There's a long time poster here R572 who has a well known and very predictable dislike of "uppity" black queens. It hates Widow, Monet, Silky, Monique Hart, Asia O'Hara, Shea Coulee and The Vixen, of course. He has a problem with their "attitude." Oy fuck. Old white racist fag.

Come to think of it, he doesn't like Tyra or Kennedy Davenport either. Hmm. Could it be, he's just a racist?

Does he dislike Ru as well, r575?

R507, nice reel of Gigi, but what it made me realize is that every one of her runway walks involves something involving her teeth. She's either picking her teeth, licking her teeth, biting something, or even wearing head gear!

what's up with that?

I give Trixie props for crossing a bunch of different markets - music, makeup, dolls, comedy. She works hard and keeps setting goals.

GiGi is very sexy to me in drag.

R577 Because Gigi bears a striking resemblance to the science fiction monster, The Predator.

Cleverly they are embracing the fact he looks like a monster and playing up his Wolf teeth.

Gigi does look good in Drag. The first and second time. And then it's all the same, because her l o n g head shape and bony face and HUGE teeth don't give her looks any variety. She can't really alter her face with makeup, just change her wig. Couple that with the fact that she wore the same silhouette 90% of the time - a deep V cut dress, blazer or coat dress for every fucking challenge, makes her really boring.

Gigi IS a pretty good performer for a 21 year old. But to compare her to Violet is ridiculous. Violet was one of a kind. There is no one else like Violet on Drag Race, ever.

#TeamJaida, all the way.

R571 I don't give a shit why Tammie is the way that she is. She's a hoot.

In closing....

I really liked Jan, and as the above poster says, I think she got a raw deal. I thought she had a longer way to go on the show. The "Virtue-cratic" drag queens are really dull. I haven't seen most of the earlier seasons, but the "butter doesn't melt in my mouth" SJW flavor of overly well-behaved (but totally passive aggressive) kind of queen never does it for me. Give me a mouthy car wreck, but with heart.... and talent!

I think the Sherry Pie faux scandal threw off a very good season. Who gives a fuck if you got some stupid guys to get naked for you? Don't we all spend our twenties doing that? I did!

I imagine the WoW/Drag Race company make a lot of money from the queens once they put them on the old Warner Bros. Seven-year contract, and milk them for all they're worth. I do hope enough trickles down to the performers themselves, but it does seem to really open up opportunities for them and let them make some money from their talents.

Ru needs to can the Celebrity Drag Race that follows the original show. It's even worse than that Drag makeover show he did a few years ago.

Sorry but it’s an uphill battle for Jaida. GiGi or Crystal are much more lucrative investments for the brand.

[quote]I think the Sherry Pie faux scandal threw off a very good season.

While I agree that it isn't the biggest crime, it's still a shitty thing to do and no employer and brand would want to be associated with that. I think they should've aired the episodes as they were originally meant to and then disqualified her at the end as they did. People don't cease to exist because they did a bad thing.

[quote]Sorry but it’s an uphill battle for Jaida

Judging solely on lipsync performance (a lot of people online keep saying that Jackie won over Crystal), Jaida should've gone home instead of Heidi. Heidi beat her fair and square in that performance. Obviously, they're taking track record into consideration so Jaida has a decent chance at the title.

Funny

[quote]I can't believe that people like Miz Cracker. I re-watched season 10 a few weeks ago and she was just... not great.

Cracker was very polarizing in an entertaining way on the RPDR subreddits. She can look good but other times it's like WHAT IS YOU THINKING

I love Cracker. She is smart and hysterical. I hope she wins AS5

Miz Cracker also did the best makeover that I'd ever seen:

What did you think of the reunion show? And Gigi and Crystal a thing? I totally missed that.

Rock m Sakura was still a pathetic mess

She was vulgar! I never liked her. Seemed way, way too needy.

They NY queens must all be doing pretty well. They all seemed to have fairly nice apartments. Was not digging Crystal's look. Cute brother, though. Surprised that Brita didn't mention she went to Maine to escape all of the implied death threats. Not a single mention of Sherry Pie... That was some great shade about meeting Rock M at Folsom.

Jan's apartment is very nice, an apartment like that in Manhattan is going to cost to run her 4-5k a month.

But I know she went to private school growing up, so she also comes from a family that does pretty well.

R592 Rock'm seemed needy because she IS needy. Must be exhausting being her friend.

Crystal's look was awful.

Time for a fashion lesson

r555 That must have broken a computer to try and give Darien a waist.

Rock's utter insecurity is tiresome r594. I saw her being all self pitying on social media and that was the last straw for me.

Its charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent, and Rock is completely lacking on nerve.

I loved Brita's library read about Dahlia Sin coming in 13th on a 12-person show.