Why Progressives Keep Losing

There is a difference between progressives and far-left progressives.

R1, fair point. Although many far-leftists in my experience insist they are "not that far left".

I'm not a huge fan but Alexandria Ocasio Cortez nailed it this morning on The View about how people want to fight against democratic socialist policies until it impacts them personally. Then it's a completely different story. After all, no ones turning down those 1200 stimulus checks, now are they?

Yeah, there are extremists on the left who think their way is the only one. But there are also moderate democrats who are just as stubborn and set in their way. Both factions think they know it all. And neither does.

The most important message right now is that healthcare can not be tied to employment any longer. You need a stronger healthcare system that makes it a right for every citizen to be granted healthcare, and not a privilege that you get when you get a job. Improve on Obamacare, do what you need to do. But it wouldn't hurt for the party to fully come together and try and come up with something.

Both leftists and conservatives mischaracterize "socialism"--it's not handing out $1,2000 checks to people. That is actually something libertarians support. Socialism is defined as...

[quote] a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whol

R4 The reason it correlates with socialism is because once you remove the incentive to work people get lazy and do the bare minimum.

R5, but come on. A one-time $1,200 check is gonna make people stop working? I don't think so.

Because the progressives don’t have their own political party.

There's actually truth in everybody's statements here to be honest.

Except, if progressives had their own party they WOULD continue losing because there aren't enough of them to win alone.

[quote] a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whol

What exactly does this even mean? The community being the government? I’ve never understood this, nor all property being theft.

Progressives have a party, the loser Green Party.

Because their ideas are even stupider than the fascists on the right.

OP, because they are not real progressives but fucking phoneys that once in office reveal their true colours. Think the Clintons — very disappointing.

Oh for god's sake R4, socialism is having free, decent healthcare for everyone regardless of income bracket. It's as simple as that.

That someone who has cancer cannot get proper treatment in the richest country in the world if they don't have money or insurance is a disgrace. This is what socialism is about — common sense

Excellent article OP, an extremely good explanation.

Fascinating that many African Americans are so anti immigration, but it does make some sense when you think about it

r14--that's not socialism at all. And there is no country where healthcare is "free".

R15, but if we look at white Americans as a whole, I'm sure the pro-immigration numbers are much smaller than they are for White Democrats. White, older Republicans in particular.

True R17

R16 healthcare isnt generally free, but there are countries where it is affordable for all. The NHS in the UK, comes to mind, although its flawed

R18, I know, some of those countries that have relatively inexpensive healthcare are ones where health insurance is still a thing. I see a lot of Bernie supporters saying that all countries have single-payer systems which is a complete lie.

R16, yes, I knew this idea would not be popular with the Anglo Saxon hoi polloi.

France, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Spain, .... have health systems paid by the state in other words by the citizens through their taxes and it has been working pretty well, to the extent that you can be a pauper and still have any sort of treatment without breaking the bank. You would not be turned away when you are dying at the A &E because you can't afford it.

R20, again, that's not "free". And you know that Germany is a multi-payer system with private health insurance too right? The German model is generally what most Democrats seem to want and I'm fine with that.

R21, article for Alice in wonderland

R22, Your article has nothing to do with what I posted. I wasn't disagreeing with you on the state of American healthcare. I was saying that those countries that have better healthcare are not all "socialist" or single-payer systems. There are many countries in the world that are NOT single-payer. Germany is one of them.

Reports on the best health care systems in the world. The US for obvious reasons is not included

R23

[quote] The German healthcare system. ... Healthcare in Germany is funded by statutory contributions, ensuring free healthcare for all. In addition, you can also take out private health insurance (Private Krankenversicherung or PKV) to replace or top up state cover (gesetzliche Krankenkasse or GKV).

R23 in Germany, as well as in other countries, you have a choice; in the US you don't.

Australians have guaranteed basic health care and usually supplement that with private health insurance.

Well that's five minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Really long winded way to come to the oft-stated fact that "Black voters, especially older black voters in the South, are actually pretty churchy and conservative."

And the whole nonsense about "everyone who likes Burmese food and abstract art is a Bernie supporter and everyone who likes chain restaurants and superhero movies is a Trumpist" is ridiculously simplistic. Yes, it tracks that more "open" people hold more liberal politics, but it's not a 1:1 thing and again, is it news to anyone that these stereotypes are often true?

r26 and that's why I said I support the German model. I believe it's the most tenable model and that is what Democrats have been fighting for since the days of Truman. And I'm sure none of them considered themselves socialist.

That abstract art example was ridiculous. Being open minded to abstract art can be a sign of naïveté and lack of maturity. I’m more rigid now in my beliefs now than I was a teenager because of more life expectancies.

Experiences

Here is my main problem with far left progressives...

Their all or nothing approach to government. You have to be willing to play well with others in order to get the change you seek. But more importantly you have to be willing to play the long game. You have to meet the American people where they are and you can't call them stupid or low information because they aren't on the same page as you are. I'm a moderate, but don't scream at me about wanting to see people die and go bankrupt over medical care, because I would prefer fixing the ACA (Obamacare) before just throwing everything out and going to MFA. I think everyone sees that we're headed towards MFA, maybe not in the lifetime of anyone posting on this thread, but that's where we're going and we're gonna get there when we get there.

And stop the whole "I know better than you" thing. No you don't. Political disagreements are good and healthy and strengthen the process. People don't need to be lectured to and talked down to. I got so tired of being told by privileged white boys why Bernie was the best choice for me and how I was wrong for supporting Pete and then eventually Biden because they were out of touch on issues of race. I don't need white people talking to me about who is out of touch on race and what should offend me. It gets exhausting.

R32, PREACH! You took the words right out of my mouth. It's so funny to me that Bernie is supposed to be so "woke" about race relations when he really isn't. Biden has a much closer relationship with the black community than Bernie PLUS he was vocally anti-apartheid. But things like this don't matter to the far left.

R32 is correct

We know what's best for those low-information blacks!

He appears to be the son of comedian (and I use the word loosely) Andy Borowitz and Susan Borowitz who was a television writer.