Mae West - A Man?

What?

Just never had super feminine features, and they became less so as she aged.

She didn’t change drastically. She got older and heavier.

Erna is that you?

“Mae West - A Man?”

Mae-be

“Mae West - A Man?”

Don’t mind if I do! But only one?

I have no idea why these people look so different.

R7 Clearly, the second is Marlon’s sister, who also goes by the name Kathleen Turner.

Mae West was never a looker. She was short and dumpy but she hit on a sellable persona. I don’t know whether she wrote her double entendres dialogue herself or had someone write it, but she had some classic material.

There are just some marginally talented people who come along at the right moment and have success.

Bette Midler owes her entire career to Mae West and Sophie Tucker.

I cannot look at old Mae West and not think of Erna/MPC.

Damnit.

R9 She was a brilliant comedic, envelope-pushing writer. She wrote and produced and starred in her own movies. She wrote a play called SEX that was shut down in NYC for being obscene, and that was before her film career. She supposedly also discovered Archie Leach, who became Cary Grant. She saw him on a film lot and thought he was too hot not to be in her movie. She was way ahead of her time.

She was way more than her cartoonish onscreen persona suggests. Everyone should watch a documentary about her. She was a phenomenon.

[quote] I cannot look at old Mae West and not think of Erna/MPC.

Stinkfish.

The photo made it appear as though OP was posting another of Madonna's quarantine videos.

Even with the hair and the makeup and the lashes she doesn’t look half as artificial as Madonna.

Madonna has surpassed Mae West with her latest visage.

She was such an odd performer. She wasn't at all beautiful, but her films all depend on the fact of everyone thinking of her as irresistible.

[quote] She was such an odd performer. She wasn't at all beautiful, but her films all depend on the fact of everyone thinking of her as irresistible.

She's like money - no intrinsic value, but all covet it.

”She was such an odd performer. She wasn't at all beautiful, but her films all depend on the fact of everyone thinking of her as irresistible.”

It was the same with Marlene Dietrich. European seductress, but there were more talented and beautiful women.

“She was such an odd performer. She wasn't at all beautiful, but her films all depend on the fact of everyone thinking of her as irresistible.”

This completely ignores that all of those films are comedies, and everything about the situations she puts herself in was always absurd. The setups were absurd, the people were absurd, and she was absurd—but with a biting wit that put her miles ahead of everyone else onscreen. Homely people being objects of affection is a comedic trope going back to Shakespeare.

[quote] but with a biting wit

I read that as "a biting wig".

She started in vaudeville at 14 and never really left.

This happened with a lot of stars. They said Tony Curtis was taken over by his lesbian sister in later years.

Someone asked her if she was a man and her reply was, "When I die, some people are going to be *very* surprised!" or something similar. Of course, the comment is a total non-answer. It could mean that the people who think she is a man will be surprised that she is a woman.

Mae West did not write her own lines. She hung out with Gay men and stole their lines. Her plays were largely improvised in rehearsals.

The estrogen and testosterone balances shift in both women and men as they age. It’s part of the reason women’s voices become lower and men’s voices get higher.

R24 What are you talking about? She wrote her own lines. The woman wrote screenplays, stage plays and novels. It’s ridiculous to try to take that away from her.

Her face was average, neither beautiful nor ugly - but she was curvaceous, and had a sexy mind, and men like that in a woman.

She was extremely sexual and unashamed about it. I’m sure that that made her popular with both men and women. Her characters and her lines probably provoked a lot of playful sex banter and roleplay among a lot of people.

As others above have hinted at, Mae West portrayed a Sexuality that was not only physical- but cerebral as well. I'll always remember Dr. Ruth saying 99.0% of sex is in the brain- stimulate THAT and you'll have a legion of lovers, or as in West's case, fans.

Tony Curtis' sister wore a terrible toupe.

Faye Dunaway’s brother is a sight to behold.

Warn a bitch, R31.

Jesus.

We had similar taste in men.

Speculation about Mae's "hidden gender" has been around for decades. Check out DINAH EAST sometime.

(Mae West = Dinah East. Get it?)

It's not very good, but it's relevant to this discussion.

[quote]Raquel Welsh alluded to her really being a man.

Mae and Raquel did not hit it off on the set of MYRA BRECKENRIDGE, where Welsh played the title trans character. Mae's quote about her, "She's a pretty enough little thing, but let's face it. No real woman would ever play that role."

[quote] that the real Mae died and her effeminate gay brother stepped in and became her.

Lucy O'Ball was going to do this but Gary Morton talked her out of it.

We would never have had such a woman, on my show

Pretty sure she had Histrionic Personality Disorder. Same as Marilyn Monroe. In fact I would stake my parents lives on Marilyn Monroe being a clinical level Histrionic.

That's itself appropriately histrionic, r38.

DL was diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder in May 1995 and has never taken its meds.

Mae West was a brilliant provocateur who parlayed a society-pricking outlook on sex aimed at overturning hypocrisy and a satirical bent into some fine theater and great fame. Moving into movies, she saved Paramount, had her movie nominated for Best Picture, was the highest-paid woman and second-highest-paid person in the US, and owned much of the 1930s.

Histrionic? She bought the irony and played the character the rest of her life. But she was savvy, iron-willed, funny and nobody's fool.

And she wasn't a man.

She was better.

R38 Marilyn was borderline and possibly histrionic. West might have had histrionic tendencies but she was worlds apart from Monroe. Monroe was the perpetual victim (or at least presented that image to the world ). West was more of a tough broad and never presented herself as an need of rescue.

It’s funny that people above are complaining that she plays sexy without being a gorgeous leading lady. This is meant to be comedy. She is not trying to be Marilyn Monroe.

“I’m the girl who works at Paramount all day and fox all night.”

(You have to say it to get it.)

She was basically a drag queen.

[quote] Mae West did not write her own lines. She hung out with Gay men and stole their lines.

Link.

r42

You hit the nail on the head. Mae was never a victim, no matter what, she turned the tables and made it work for her.

Correct, R43. She was a comedian.

One of my favorites:

Mae: Why don't you come up some time and...see me.

Mae: Aw, you know it's Lent.

Mae: Well, come up and see me when you get it back.

Bwhahahahaha. So simple, so silly and yet hilariously funny.

Ooops, it should be

Mae: Why don't you come up some time and...see me.

Man: Aw, you know it's Lent.

Mae: Well, come up and see me when you get it back.

DL NEEDS AN EDIT FUNCTION. This is not AOL 1995.

In what year did the "real" Mae die and when did the second Mae die?

Please learn how to spell Raquel Welch and Lucille Ball.

I have read a fair bit on this, as the subject did fascinate me. One of the observations made, was Mae West (as the audience knew her), was effectively a character created by the real Mae West. However, the real Mae West died after the initial burst of film fame. Because she was the cash cow of the family, her brother then effectively become trans and continued the act. So when I say the "the brother become trans" I mean he started living life as a woman. Not a Michael Dorsey from Tootsie setup, but going to lengths to alter himself.

The biggest clue to this is the very obvious change in facial structure from the large round face seen in the films, to the face Mae West had when she went to the UK. There was a definite change in appearance and it wasn't just age.

Next, Mae had apparently alluded to the fact she had fooled the world. Apparently, she wanted it made known she had been a man after her death. But when she died her long term assistant and doctor went to lengths to prevent it from becoming public. There have even been requests for her body to be exhumed so her gender can be established.

Raquel Welch was also very certain that when she met West, West was indeed a man.

R52 So Real Mae’s wit and talent for on-the-fly endless double entendres, and for script and fiction writing, was shared by her brother, who happened to look enough like her to pass as her after her death. And her whole family was on board with it. Sure. Makes lots of sense!

R53 Yes pretty much.

Mae was witty, audacious, and a self-made woman. She was ahead of her time. Common with many celebs, she was also an insecure person behind her risqué image. Like the fictional Norma Desmond, she became a victim of her own image. She lived as a recluse later in life, still believing she was a glamorous, sexual woman desired by men. At the same time, she was afraid to go out because she no longer matched her screen persona.

R42: The idea that Marilyn was a perpetual victim is the repetitious and false tabloid narrative of her life. She had a lot of issues, but she never would have been the big star of 20th Century-Fox if she was a passive, frail thing. She was one of the first actresses to challenge a big movie studio for creative control and win, something Bette Davis attempted and failed to do. She was one of the first women to have her own production company. She divorced 2 husbands who did not support her having a career. She financially supported husband #3. She risked the Hollywood blacklist by publicly defending Arthur Miller (#3) while he was being investigated by the HUAC for Communist ties.

According to Robert Mitchum, Marilyn (like Mae) played her sexy image for laughs: "she burlesqued it". She and Mae played unreal comic characters. The difference is that Marilyn really wasn't trapped by that character. She could separate herself from the image, as several people who knew her have mentioned. She could go out into the crowded street without makeup, not caring that she looked unkempt and unglamourous. Mae could not. Mae needed all the artifice of glamour and an entourage of muscle men to emphasize that she was still desirable way past her shelf life. Marilyn didn't live long enough for us to see how she handled ageing, but plenty of biographies have shown that she was interested in more than being an unchanging archetype.

Histrionic personalities are exceptionally entertaining, they're if anything over represented in Hollywood (and now IG, Youtube and porn) . Their entire disorder is built on the need to grab and keep attention. They don't just adopt new faces, they adopt a new personality. The quirkier, the better. The mask occassionally falls but in general even they dont know who they really are. They act hyper sexual because that's the easiest attention grabber. They have trouble maintaining relationships. They frequently fake illness and use suicide threats to get attention. They have wild mood swings and are prone to depression.

And the symptom that seals the deal for Marilyn. Every emotion that isnt self focused is superficial which is why their partners say its like dating a self involved empty sex shell. What was it Arthur Miller said about Marilyn? Haa.

The photographers and Hollywood execs and politicians and celebrities that Marilyn fucked often get written off as exploiters who damaged *her* when the truth is that Marilyn probably had HPD. She slept with everyone for approval and attention. What damaged her is when they inevitably moved their attention elsewhere.

The face just got older and the result of too much plastic surgery. Is that too simple for so many of you to accept? She was a brilliant comedienne way ahead of her time and unique. The whole point was it was all tongue in cheek. She created Mae West and spent the whole of her life being Mae West. Dietrich had too many facelifts. Hedy Lamar ruined her own breath taking beauty attempting to preserve it. For those who don't 'get' Mae's burlesque tonge in cheek humour watch this clip. Mae being an international operatic Diva. Every time I watch it I laugh my fucking ass off. skip to about 1:23 to get to Mae singing. Oh, and it isn't dubbed.

Mae was the 1930s Hollywood version of Courtney Love

I remember reading a bio on Mae West which claimed that West, like every other comedian of her era, stole lines from burlesque acts or small-time comedians. Even the lines she made look spontaneous were from her book of one liners and extremely well-rehearsed.

Not to say she wasn't funny, though. She may not have thought up the lines herself, but she knew how to deliver them with a knowing wink at the audience. Very drag queen-like.

That era had Mae West; today, we have Miss Lindzey.

I will now and forever be known as Raquel Welsh.....

A woman friend of mine used to wonder what it would be like with Mae West in the cast of "Steel Magnolias", "Thelma and Louise", "Enchanted April" and "Golden Girls", doing her usual shtick.

Besides the lines, her waggly movements, always shifting on her hips and shimmying, her raised eyebrow and her smirk and the way she looks up and past the camera all came together to make her into a human cartoon. Oooh! She’s one of the easiest people to imitate (even when done poorly, you know who it is and it’s usually funny) because she was unforgettable. Oohhh!

Yeah, this is like that French lady that lived to be 122 but really her daughter took over her life when she died.

I wish they had cast Mae West in more films later in her life. She would have been brilliant in the Faye Dunaway part in Network and the Ali McGrew role in Love Story. Can you imagine her doing the hair push and then delivering the line "Oh honey, love means never having to say you're sorry" although she would have probably re-written then line to say "Oh honey, love means never being sorry for having me".

What some of you are forgetting is that Mae West was extremely short. He shoes were literally a shoe on top of a shoe for height. If she was replaced by a man, he would have had to be a midget.

He is a man! Goes by Erna now. Lives in Barcelona now with a small dog.

Madonna has also been replaced by her effeminate brother so just another Similarity between Mae and Madge

Yes it's so obvious the brother has taken over playing Madonna.

This has been going on for longer than people know. When Jesus Christ was crucified and then his corpse was thrown into a cave, his little-known younger sister Shesus pretended to be him. She didn’t have the beard but she was a pretty butch lesbo, and it helped that he had the flowing, luxurious locks and the sinewy sensuous body shown off on so many Catholic crosses. People saw Shesus crawl out from behind the rock and just assumed that Jesus had been refreshed after going to heaven and being touched by an angel. She gave a couple last speeches, collected her gold and her desert vittles and then ran off with Mary Magdalene to France, where they cleaned one another’s holy chalices and started a successful furniture business. To this day, you can sometimes find original Shesus setées in some antiques markets around Saints-Maries-de-la-Mer.

Oh R70 thank you. I needed that badly.

R71 I'm always happy to help people brush up on their ancient history!

Don't tell anyone, but I am using this quarantine as an opportunity to finally finish my forthcoming book, "Shesus Christ: The Tempestuous True Story of Jesus's Transgender Twin Sister and Her Star-Crossed Love Affair with The Red Woman—Including 50 original etchings of Shesus's original Gaulish woodworks."

It's due out this August from Farrar, Straus & Giroux.

Mae West (76 at the time) once got angry at a journalist, because he said she looked like a 30-year old. She retorted that she did not look older than 26.

Fun fact: She was Kanye West's grandmother.

she was Sheena Easton's lover

Mae was five feet tall.

Have any drag queens in recent years been doing Mae? Or is she completely alien to younger gay guys in this age of RuPaul et al?

I think her material and her personna are classic and would translate well with a really good impersonator.

1. Mae West brother died in 1964....26 years before she did

2. The surprise she continually referred to was the fact that although he image was of a sexually liberated woman, she was anything but in real life...she didnt drink, didnt smoke and was somewhat of a prude. She didnt go to parties, didnt throw parties, and disliked those who did. She didnt like foul language used around her and didnt use it herself. She detested outright displays of sexuality...thats why she was always, ALWAYS, fully dressed and didnt show skin.

3. Her death certificate would have stated she was a man or had a sex change.

^^^sorry, Her brother died 16 years before she did. ^^^

Mae West height was 5' 0$. The film shot made her seem taller, even with heels. The persona projected her to be more of a physically dominant and sexually aggressive female.

Good points, r78.

r80...

I just watched the PBS documentary and then did a search via google to find this thread.

The older Mae appeared to me to be male, so I googled was Mae West a man. The young Mae did not appear at all to be a drag queen but a construct, old Mae did appear to be a man.