So This Quarantine We Have Going On Could Last As Long As 12 to 18 Months

I'm very worried that they will rob me of my Hummell collection and Bradford Exchange plates, to say nothing about the possible loss of a caftan or two!

I don’t think the US will have a quarantine past June-ish. People are already getting antsy for the end of April. Don’t think the economy can survive much more either.

I really don't think it will last that long, OP.

Return to "normal" is about 12-18 months but not quarantine. Unless of course this virus turned Contagion deadly.

Get real OP. Not even 12-18 weeks.

I think they'll come up with a treatment before then

I'm just quoting what Fauci and several other epidemiologists have stated is a good possibility. Until there is a vaccine, we will never be rid of this virus in society. That goes for other countries as well.

People would never agree to such a thing. They are just barely still tolerating it now. I imagine most would just say "fuck you, I'm going out anyway" unless every street was lined with military men waiting to shoot whoever steps outside or something like that. Or if we're all taken to concentration camps or something like that. That's the only way I can see it working for that long.

Unless there's some crazy spike in deaths, the quarantine will end by April 30th. Social distancing and masks will continue. People over 65 will be advised to stay at home. And so forth. We'll learn to live with this. There's no other alternative.

I've got a gun and I'm not afraid to use it to protect my Precious Moments collection!

This stay at home order will last until they can get the testing squared away for determining who has had the virus already, and likely not contagious. Those people can get back into the work force, since they are not at risk. Things will never be as they were before this virus existed. Fauci has made it clear that things like shaking hands should be a permanent thing of the past. Until a a reliable vaccine can be found things will not be “normal”. Expect temperature testing and face masks before entering parks and businesses.

Bull

shit.

Go somewhere else to stir up hysteria, Vlad.

China has already lifted the quarantine everywhere. They had to reimpose it in Wuhan at one point, and now Singapore has reimposed it too, so even when they lift the quarantine they may have to temporarily reimpose it from time to time to get things back under control.

But people like OP are just being drama queens.

[quote]This stay at home order will last until they can get the testing squared away for determining who has had the virus already, and likely not contagious.

Absolutely not. This stay at home order will not last after April.

Getting "the testing squared away for determining who has had the virus already, and likely not contagious." will take months.

An economic depression is not going to be allowed to happen. We'll learn to live with the virus and take precautions, but closing the country for months on end? Not going to happen.

I’ve never cared for shaking hands. People tend to be one extreme or another, either they grip your hand like a vise or the are like a limp fish. So, I wouldn’t care if it goes away. But, I doubt the complete lockdown will continue pass mid May, at the latest. Social distancing will continue until we get a vaccine.

Whenever the so called quarantine ends , things will be a new normal. People will never go to stadiums etc with the same reckless abandon.

New clusters will pop up. I think the Rethugs look forward to many deaths. The decision to force people in Wisconsin to vote in person is unspeakable.

It will be the Drumpf admin on steroids, with the new Barbie doll spokesmodel, uh, the press secretary.

Can we substitute presenting hole for shaking hands? (Men only, of course.)

Thousand unemployed OP??

Sweetie, 6.6 MILLION filed for unemployment in a week, and that’s only those that are eligible.

Business prognostications are DELUSIONAL. A full third of this country will be unemployed in the next month, and it will only get worse.

It’s not going to last over 2 months, trust me on this.

I think they're going to end it, the deaths are going to spike, then we'll be right back in quarantine all over again. Even if they do set us free, it won't last for long.

Stay at home orders in NY and NJ will last well past April and into the summer. You have no idea what is happening here. They are digging mass graves on islands where there were former plague hospitals. The rest of the country is not experiencing what we’re experiencing here. Commercial real estate is going to die, there will be a massive shift to work at home. The theater and music industry may never recover here.

Just shut up. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

If the quarantine starts hurting the bottom line of the elites, it will end. Not a minute before that.

R13 and r20 exactly. The economy can and will be turned around...death is irreversible.

It's like trying to get rid of crabs. You miss one louse and you have to start all over again. All you need is for the quarantine to be lifted someone asymptomatic goes to the grocery store, touches a box of cereal that someone susceptible picks up. The cashier then touches it, then their kids and starts all over again.

We won't get a vaccine for at least another year. During the interim, MDs and researchers (not the dumbass politicians who've been useless through all of this) will identify and determine the mechanism of action of this virus in the body. This will lead to development of firmer clinical support measures that will shorten hospitalization stays and lower mortality rates, perhaps to tolerable levels that may allow things to open back up to near-normal levels.

Count on this being the scenario.

Meanwhile, back to reality:

"Some European countries are starting to lift coronavirus lockdown measures"

Schools and universities cannot go back into session with the virus still untreatable and without there being a vaccine.

I'm not saying the government won't tell universities to bring students back, but when (or if) they do, entire towns will be decimated. Just look at what happened with Falwell's university and that was a small school whose students were only back for a few days.

Even if they come up with a vaccine anytime soon, there are 7.5 billion people on the planet. It will take years to vaccinate everyone and eliminate this. Who's going get vaccinated first? The people in third world countries, or the billionaires and their families?

Do you fools realize that there a people still going to work every day?

How the fuck are you able to eat, cruise the internet, turn on the lights etc? It's because people are working. Are those people allowing us to still carry on with our lives be sacrificial lambs?

Some of us are still working, R29. What are you even talking about? Your last sentence is nonsensical.

Meanwhile, Trump may call for a return to business as usual but that will only apply to Federal employees, and not even all of them. Its the States that have shut things down, and the States that will lift the shutdown. Trump can try to influence the state Governors, but that’s it.

In addition, some employers voluntarily closed down. I think the automakers did so, in which case, Trump will have to threaten them to get them to open.

People are still going to work and still dying. A lot of the people succumbing are in the medical field, transportation, first responders and people who work in grocery stores and the warehouses. The people who are still out and about and around lots of people.

This pandemic is not the American people’s fault so the government should support Americans until this crisis is over and Trump is gone

I have a really good handshake that I’m never going to get to use again.

R33, I heard something during the 2008 crash with respect to the globalized economy: if a software company can create 10 jobs in the US, and make 10 employees rich; or alternately, raise 30 employees out of poverty in Bangalore, which is the moral thing to do? Globalized companies don’t have national allegiance.

Trying to put a brave face on this, but I don’t have the resources many of you seem to have. Struggling as well with depression, chronic health issues, family issues, and more. No idea where May’s rent is coming from and my landlord (three-unit owner-occupied building) can’t afford to let me slide. Respecting the shelter-in-place orders but as far as I’m concerned, this is not a life.

I’m impressed by those who’ve tapped into reserves of strength and creativity during this crisis. I haven’t managed to do that. If this is going to go on much longer, where I feel I’m merely going through the motions of living, why should I continue to live?

R36, what income did you use to pay April's rent?

If you lost work, apply for unemployment.

If you lost a gig or freelance work, still apply for unemployment. And see if you can get any grants that places like Freelancers Union are giving to freelancers.

This too shall pass, and there are resources to help you get through it.

[R36], DL is full of helpful people who can keep you off the ledge. Don't be afraid to ask for help. (But please don't tell anybody outside of DL that we helped you. We'll get a 'reputation'). Seriously, I've seen posters who were near destitute receive answers about ways to keep your head above water. It may be that way temporarily, but you will be back on your feet again.

R36, this moment is just temporary. It may seem like forever, but it’s not. Hang around to see what happens next.

R37, R38, R39... your kindness is much appreciated.

We can't and won't stay at home for 12-18. months, and it goes way beyond the economy. Take cancer screening tests, for one. The longer those are put on hold, the more people will die of preventable cancer. We can't wait until coronavirus cases go down to zero (which may be a looooong wait). Fauci said himself (and we know he's not the type to dismiss health concerns) that we'll have to walk the line between the risks of coronavirus and the risks of shutting portions of society down.

[quote] (not the dumbass [italic]Republican[/italic] politicians who've been useless through all of this)

FTFY.

The sensible states (you know, the blue ones) will continue the sheltering until the first of June, and then slowly begin reopening their economies. Old people and those with underlying conditions will continue to shelter for a while. We won't be out of this until 2021.

The problem is the religious lunatic states (you know, the red ones) are refusing to shelter, and the virus is going to explode there in the coming weeks. By refusing to take their medicine, they're making it worse on themselves. And everyone, because it's going to take longer for the whole country to come back to some semblance of normalcy/commerce thanks to them refusing to bend the curve.

I said 2021 because that's the likely turning point to finally get this solved. The choice before the American people: vote Dem and get better, vote Trump and die.

But did you hear Gavin Newsom on Rachel's Tuesday night show? I loved the use of the term "nation-states" and how California is once again leading the country in the right direction. That's what leadership looks like: bold, decisive, effective. Compare and contrast that with Trump's dithering. It makes me want to scream that this entire mess was completely avoidable. A competent president would have tasked the Task Force (Pandemic, not Trump's Space Force, aka total waste of time and money) to stomp it out over there before it had a chance to come over here, but oops, the celebrity apprentice fired them, saving all of $20 million a year (SWAG) so we get to spend $Trillions on the the kid's credit cards to prop up a failing capitalist system fraught with fraud, greed and corruption.

Trump's dithering and delaying cost us our way of life. If we don't wake up this nation and make them see the complete idiot he is, there won't be a nation by 2024. I mean, who thought we'd be huddling in our homes, afraid to go to the grocery store and talk to our neighbors when Trump wandered around the debate stage behind Hillary like some orange-painted deranged mafioso madman?

I hope the deplorables are happy. We're all as miserable as them now.

Eventually governments will have to choose whether they want their countries and citizens to face financial ruin and social collapse or whether to let the inevitable - which has been put off since mid March and house arrest - happen and let the germs fall where they may. Wuflu will be one more way human existence is challenged, along with traffic accidents, guns, terrorism, murder, the hundreds of other flu strains, cancer, etc. Until such time as medical science comes up with a Wuflu treatment and/or vaccine or discovers that it is possible to build up immunity.

R43 has a solid point. At a certain point it becomes one of hundreds of ways you can die when people are allowed outside.

The "Wuflu" troll never has a solid point. He's just spamming Datalounge with "well car accidents kill too, you know" and pretending like he's a genius for saying it.

The choice facing most government (minus the ones that actually prepared when they say this coming e.g. New Zealand, Korea etc.) is destroy the economy or kill a lot of people. The cold hard truth is that we're playing a guessing game with this virus. We don't know why some people get die or have a very rough ride, while others remain asymptomatic or have a milder run. We don't know if people who have recovered actually acquired immunity (there is growing evidence that they don't).

America being America will but money ahead of all other concerns and will see the death toll sky rocket. Meanwhile, other countries like Germany, Canada, and the UK (to a lesser extent) are gearing up for prolonged economic devastation. All three countries are creating relief programs that are effectively universal income programs in all but name. In Canada, for example, any citizen who made at least $5000 in 2019 is entitled to $2000/month for at least the next four months.

China, is already beginning to see a second wave. Sweden which hasn't closed schools, restaurants, or bars, is suddenly changing course. Denmark is planning to reopen schools after Easter, but the government is facing mounting opposition from citizens. This going to last for a long time yet, and will likely see the rise of 'big government' in many countries.

The reality is, what we knew as normal is not going to be the norm when this all over. We're living through a new 9/11. In a few years time, 'post-covid world' is going to be the new catch phrase.

R45 truly believes everyone is a "troll" who doesn't mirror his peculiar worldview.

Is there really growing evidence that there is no immunity? Do you have a link? I'm not finding anything that substantiates that, R45.

Obviously some people have immunity, or EVERY SINGLE PERSON would become deathly ill. Not happening...

We're surrounded by viruses, bacteria, fungi, every day. And life, such that it is, goes on and will go on.

R46, it may kill 500,000 in the US. That sounds like a lot indeed. But it's less than half of one percent of the population.

And then there's herd immunity which no one has talked about.

Our great grandparents Lived through two world wars, tuberculosis, Spanish flu, Polio, the Great Depression and found a way to survive and come back stronger. If they did it without losing their shit and pussing out so can we. I know it’s tough. We are all feeling this one.

Except now the scientists are questioning whether there is a herd immunity to coronavirus. R50.

I hope the quarantine never ends. Humans are the worst and deserve to suffer.

[quote]And then there's herd immunity which no one has talked about.

And no one will. Sweden gave it a go, and the verdict is still out about its effectiveness. Of course everyone wanted Sweden's experiment to fail. Because if it is in any way successful, there'll be lots of business owners and hundreds of millions of people who will be righteously angry about being locked away for fuck nothing.

R48 Here's a report from Newsweek

R50 Um honey, the 500K if the projected figure if we continue social distancing and tight lock down policies. When Trump was talking about ending the lock down after Easter, models showed around 2.5 million Americans would die before December.

There is still debate about herd immunity will work for COVID-19. This was the UK's initial approach to the virus before the government was given modeling about how many people could die. They changed course but the damage was done, and the UK is on course to have the highest death toll in Europe.

The rest of the world will be okay...America, you in danger gurl!

R42 that was so depressing to read because it’s TRUE.

[quote] if we continue social distancing and tight lock down policies.

Speculation.

[quote]models showed around 2.5 million Americans would die before December.

Speculation.

[quote]and the UK is on course to have the highest death toll in Europe.

Speculation.

The most unfortunate aspect of a novel virus that no one has a fucking clue in hell about is the "speculation", which tends to ramp up hysteria/panic. But perhaps that's the method to the madness.

Trump is intentionally trying to kill us.

R42, true. Leadership makes a big difference. Our great grandparents had FDR, we have the orange joke.

It’s a good question to ask as to how to get out of this lockdown.

Bear in mind that the idea of lockdown, in my state anyway, isn’t really intended to keep people from EVER getting infected. It is primarily intended to spread out the number requiring hospitalization at one time. Otherwise, the system will get overwhelmed and people with otherwise survivable infections may die from inadequate medical treatment. This might mean the same number in total will require hospitalization, but we have a better survival rate. Secondarily, by the lockdown, we might see heard immunity develop, and a vaccine or treatment found, so many people won’t ever get infected.

At some point, some great percentage will have developed immunity from exposure, and then it’s time to re-open for business. Will the government create a spreadsheet to determine what are acceptable levels of dead? They do this in wartime, incidentally, though not That formerly and not with civilian dead, usually.

R58, it’s more than “speculation” by ignoramuses, if that is what you’re suggesting. It’s educated opinion by experts in the field.

There are plenty of people who understand virology; have experience with other Coronaviruses; and understand statistics. The best ones know, what they don’t know. (Unlike Trump who has no understanding of this) They’ve already sequenced the virus DNA. This is a far cry from “no fucking clue”.

[quote]Meanwhile, other countries like Germany, Canada, and the UK (to a lesser extent) are gearing up for prolonged economic devastation.

Bullshit. No country, especially Germany of all places, is gearing up for prolonged economic devastation.

R63, I suppose it depends on the definition of “devastation”. One could argue that the US is past that point already.

[quote]And then there's herd immunity which no one has talked about.

It's talked about constantly and was mentioned on this thread multiple times.

[quote]It’s educated opinion by experts in the field.

OPINION is not fact. By medical officials who are speculating on an unknown virus using models from known viruses that have unknown corolation with the unknown virus.

[quote]have experience with other Coronaviruses; and understand statistics.

Those "other coronaviruses" were no where near as virulent as this coronavirus. Statistics on an unknown virus is yet more speculation.

[quote]They’ve already sequenced the virus DNA. This is a far cry from “no fucking clue”.

Sequencing the DNA does NOT provide definitive medical information on progression or immunity, let alone treatment, of the virus. We're all in lockdown because the medicos are clueless as to how to proceed.

R66, I am not sure how you are using the word “speculation”. That’s where theories originate. From educated speculation. It’s not synonymous with “guesswork”.

r59, it's genocide and it's Putin.

R67, he's a rightwing troll, repeating Trump's anti-California talking points on one thread, cheering on Boris Johnson and the Tories on another.

He's only insisting that medical knowledge is "speculation" because he's the kind of rightwinger who doesn't trust experts, because science and medicine and education are the domain of the hysterical libtards.

Rightwingers are very much in denial, and are all somewhere on the spectrum of "it's just the flu, stop getting hysterical" to "it's a man-made virus caused by 5G towers." Just because this "Wuflu" troll can spell and doesn't call this an outright hoax doesn't mean he's not a Trumpster with an agenda.

Until there is a proper cure or vaccine for it the coronavirus will stay with us beyond our social distancing phase which will not last much longer because of economic interest trumping human safety and lives.

[quote]That’s where theories originate. From educated speculation.

Theories, speculation, opinions, could, may, possibly, etc.. In the end, it's all guesswork, not knowledge. If it was knowledge, we wouldn't all be sitting locked up in our homes. It only becomes knowledge with proven results, positive or negative, based on actual conditions and outcomes.

Poor R69 is reduced to spewing childish pejoratives at those who don't share his peculiarities.

The business world will come up with some gimmicky safety guidelines to get those back to work who can survive the virus. The rest will have to stay isolated and potentially lose insurance coverage if they put themselves in danger by going out for something other than buying necessities.

r72, how would "necessity" outings be monitored? I don't think the business world cares if the vulnerable die. Dump & his acolytes would be perfectly happy to use slave labor, including prisoners and those held in border cages.

"religious lunatic states ... are refusing to shelter, and the virus is going to explode there in the coming weeks."

Don't get my hopes up!

"Austria and Denmark are planning to lift their coronavirus lockdowns. But experts say easing measures too early might bring the virus back worse than before."

R71, you’ve jumped that shark, here. It’s called the scientific method. And your knock on “knowledge” WTF?

I live in the state of VA, in the blue zone outside Washington DC. Sadly, many people don't take the stay-at-home orders seriously. The gates of the local and national parks have been locked, and people are parking on the street near the gates (or in neighborhoods near the parks) and going into the parks anyway. Because "no one is gonna tell ME what to do. I'll go where I want." But, then, the same people want to continue to "work from home" (so they can go to the park all day). And then at stores, people are disregarding the guidelines that imposed to encourage social distancing, and they're bringing their whole damn family to Home Depot. This behavior undermines the efforts of those who really are following the guidelines.

In the meanwhile, the people with the lower-paying jobs (trades, retail, restaurants) still have to work as normal, and the medical professionals are working crazy hours.

We're just protecting those who make more money, and a lot of those people don't even appreciate it.

It’s reasonable to predict that as the curve flattens and we become compassion-fatigued, we’ll start accepting deaths from coronavirus as an unavoidable risk of modern life, like heart attacks and car accidents. We’ve seen this with other epidemics in different parts of the world. It’s plausible that westerners will nonchalantly start wearing masks in public like people do in Asia.

Herd immunity WILL slow the spread, so hospitals and morgues will no longer be overwhelmed, although the overall infection and death rates will remain the same until a successful vaccine is developed. And when the media finally tires of reporting COVID-19 deaths, they’ll turn to the economic recession eclipsing coronavirus as the biggest threat to society. People sick with COVID-19 might even be stigmatized for being “ignorant” or “reckless.” Since they are already disproportionately elderly, poor, overweight, and non-white, they are perfect scapegoats for the tanked economy.

As of today 14k people have died in the US alone. If you think this quarantine will be over anytime before September you're out of your mind. At this rate, if quarantine is relaxed by June we'll end up with half of million deaths.

[quote]Herd immunity WILL slow the spread,

As yet, there is no definitive medical knowledge that this is accurate.

R80 If this virus is so different from other coronas that herd immunity is only speculation, this is incredibly scary news. I can’t even begin to imagine what would be if we had absolutely no ability to gain or maintain immunity to it, which means no vaccine would be effective, either.

[quote]I can’t even begin to imagine what would be if we had absolutely no ability to gain or maintain immunity to it, which means no vaccine would be effective, either.

Treatments to ease/mitigate symptoms, leading to more recoveries, less hospitalisation, less deaths. With the hope that eventually Wuflu, out of sheer exhaustion from infecting so many, mutates to something far less virulent and more benign.

Flattening the curve is by definition only postponing or prolonging the inevitable. People who will die will still die, but in a more manageable way. Whenever the quarantine ends, there will still be people infected with the virus somewhere in the world and they will cause the chain reaction to occur again. We will have to learn to live with Covid-19 like our ancestors did with many deadly communicable diseases.

12 to 18 months? Sure, that's when they might have a vaccine ready, but they will have a treatment before then. The day a treatment is ready is the day the quarantine will be over.

[quote] Schools and universities cannot go back into session with the virus still untreatable and without there being a vaccine.

I agree. If you send students back to campus too soon, and pack thousands of them into cramped classrooms and dorms, it will be a catastrophe. "Social distancing" is impossible on a college campus. The students themselves may be young enough to avoid dying in large numbers, but they will spread the virus to faculty, staff, and the community at large. And unlike some businesses, where people can rotate between working at home and in person, you can't invite students back to campus, then tell them to leave for a weeks, then make them return again for a few weeks, etc. I would not want to be living in a college town when the students return to campus (and to the community) en masse.

[quote]If this virus is so different from other coronas that herd immunity is only speculation, this is incredibly scary news.

It's not news. Why are you acting as though you've just been informed of a fact? We do not know whether people become immune to CV-19 after having had it or not. Full stop. There is NO NEWS that suggests that immunity is speculation.

In fact, Fauci said a week ago that immunity should last until at least September, based on current findings coming after studies of the body's antibody response.

And this is from a recent article: "Experts say the body’s antibody response, triggered by the onset of a virus, means it is unlikely that patients who have recovered from COVID-19 can get re-infected so soon after contracting the virus."

The article also states a study using rhesus monkeys showed immunity.

Things will be nearly back in August.

Nightmare now. Especially in NYC.

[quote] Secondarily, by the lockdown, we might see heard immunity develop,

I hear ya, bro.

Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?

15 million people have applied for unemployment in three weeks. The system is completely overwhelmed. No one is receiving payments. Banks are overwhelmed with requests for SBA loans. The small business process is ridiculous and the banks don’t even have actual rules in place and are refusing to pay out despite the fact they have access to the money. Wells Fargo, one of the country’s biggest banks, won’t have anything to do with the program because it’s such a shambles.

Again, you people are delusional. Money was needed YESTERDAY. It’s going to take months for any kind of relief to actually make it into people’s bank accounts. Those $1200 payments? Lol, no one has received them and no one will for weeks to months.

Wake up. Help is not coming for a long time, and there are people in serious financial danger that literally can’t pay for food, much less rent, etc.

Yes, lift the lockdown. Let’s see how that works out for us. Lol. Fucking idiots.

R1, Not to mention your vintage Playgirl collection.

[quote]People would never agree to such a thing.

Then let those dumbasses run around and get sick. The rest of us however should be allowed to keep working from home to protect ourselves. We shouldn’t be forced to go back to working in poorly ventilated office buildings during this time if we don’t feel comfortable doing so.

It's pretty much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Many people are fucked no matter what happens. Unless the virus somehow magically disappears overnight which is very unlikely.

The guy who is saying this is all speculation and that everyone will get lasting immunity and we should all get back to work etc etc........is probably cowering in his basement afraid to leave the house right now. If you want to get out and get a job why not apply for walmart or amazon...they are hiring! Oh right, your an idiot who is just afraid of dying from the virus as everyone else.

[quote]Our great grandparents Lived through two world wars, tuberculosis, Spanish flu, Polio, the Great Depression and found a way to survive and come back stronger. If they did it without losing their shit and pussing out so can we.

Except a whole lot of people didn't live through it and had a profound effect on its survivors.

For starters, check out the documentary Influenza 1918.

[quote] Oh right, your an idiot

I love irony.

My grandmother's little brother died of the influenza, then her older brother died of the influenza while serving in WWI. The family never got over it and the loss of the eldest male hurt them terribly financially. Her sister also had polio (before the vaccine) and it was a huge burden on the family. None of the surviving kids finished high school because they were needed to take care of each other and work odd jobs, leading to generational poverty because they had no education and no real job prospects. My mom and her siblings grew up eating squirrel and roadkill and stolen vegetables. Mom was married off right after high school, her brother went into the Navy the day he graduated high school, and her sister went into secretarial school before even graduating high school (though she did get her degree).

Mom and both her siblings were absolutely insane when it came to money, and terrible when it came to caring for their own families. Life was cheap, kids were expensive irritants, and they were skinflints and misers.

So don't tell me that everyone got through the early part of the 20th century unscathed because it was TOUGH and the pandemic, the wars, the Depression, the lack of vaccines and life before FDR's New Deal hurt the entire country terribly. It's partly why we're in the mess we're in today.

R97, yet he’s got good points.

[r51] My grandparents were that generation -- and they were financially scarred from all of it. They scrimped, saved, repaired, mended, reused, and never spent a dime foolishly. If that mentality returns as a result of what we're going through, then we are in for some tough economic times.

R51 The greatest generation is credited with building the American Dream. They got the economy booming after WWII. Boomers, Xers, Millennials and Gen-Z are just soft. We haven’t been tested with real hardship or adversity. That’s why some of us are freaking out about what is happening right now.

My grandpa Sam had a rental apartment and a bus company in Brooklyn. He also had a vacation home, on Statin Island, I understand. Then he caught encephalitis lethargica around 1930 sometime, and didn’t have the energy to work. He lost it all. His 14 year old daughter, my aunt, had to go to work. Then he died young. My Dad used to turn his entire salary over to his mother, then she would give him $2 back, for himself. They literally became dirt poor.

Encephalitis lethargica swept across the world. It’s a bit of a mystery. Some think it was a side-effect of the Spanish flu that was pandemic a few years before. So, this business today could be even more dangerous than we realize. But, one thing at a time, I guess.

We are already seeing the affects. Our school received an alert that there has been a huge increase in child abuse and that we should be on the alert for signs of abuse.

Hi Americans! I'm a Canadian siting up here with my free health care, and my $2000/month from the government to help pay my bills will I'm out of work. Have fun done there!

[r92] My valuable vintage gay porn magazines are safe and secure in a lockbox at the bank. If times get really desperate, I will sell one a month on Ebay.

out of quaratine by May. Take it to the bank.

R106....yup and back in quarantine by July or August.

Well, if we really practice social distancing, and sheltering in place, etc. we can flatten the curve. That means we have to go through two or three weeks of sharply reduced new cases. Like down to maybe a couple dozen. With TESTING, we can start isolating and tracking and control the spread faster. That will allow us to start gradually allowing people to go out in public. Maybe returning to work. But IMO large crowds like sporting events, concerts,etc. will still be unwise. And we have to be absolutely certain. The problem is that you can have no symptoms and be contagious. So things may loosen up, but they will not be "back to normal" until we have a vaccine and everyone gets their COVID19 Shot.

American will end the lockdown too soon .. you know Americans being stupid and all .. because Trump wants to run on a booming economy. That will be a mistake and lead to a second wave, particularly in red states.

Most other countries, like Canada, the UK, France, etc. will very slowly start to lift some restrictions by the summer and will see much smaller second waves of the virus.

Asian countries that were are effected are just now lifting restrictions after four months, and they containment was far more aggressive than most countries in the west ... mostly due to their lack of civil rights.

Our impatience and arrogance have ensured that this crisis will last much longer than it had to.

Cases are re-emerging in Wuhan and all over Asia. There will be no end to the lockdown here anytime soon. This virus is far too infectious.

They need to invest billions into hospitals and then lift everything. It’ll be a decade before a vaccine is created.

[quote] I don’t think the US will have a quarantine past June-ish. People are already getting antsy for the end of April.

The lifting of shelter in place has nothing to do with whether anyone feels antsy. It’s based on data and science and the potential for the spread of disease.

Maryland and Virginia are on stay home orders until June 10th.. That sounds about right to me.

[quote] My grandmother's little brother died of the influenza, then her older brother died of the influenza while serving in WWI. The family never got over it and the loss of the eldest male hurt them terribly financially. Her sister also had polio (before the vaccine) and it was a huge burden on the family.

My grandmother’s brother also died of influenza in similar situation. I’d ask if we were cousins, but we never had polio in the family and no one I’m related to ever ate roadkill.

Someone will do the math and calculate the value of anticipated deaths vs. the cost of remaining shut-down. Once we cross that line, things will start opening up.

But we need to understand the disease better to do this. Particularly, we need to know if people can be reinfected, or if reinfection is common. Then we need to know how much of the population has been exposed to the disease and become both immune to re-infection and no longer contagious. These people can go back to work. After this is all known, and the cost is calculated, they will open things back up.

Welp, we're fucked. Scientists at Oxford University are corroborating what Korea and Chinese scientist have found. At least a third of people infected and recovered from COVID-19 have shockingly low levels, or even undetectable levels, of antibodies in their blood. At best, this means 1/3 of people will have limited immunity and prone to reinfection within a much shorter time span that with viruses like influenza. At worst, it means sustained immunity is not possible. This also means, antibody tests are likely to be ineffective.

Also, University of Cambridge scientists have identified three strains of covid-19 and that it appears to be mutating to adapt to our immune systems. They have find the Type C (the one in most common circulation in Europe) can actually hide in healthy cells for long periods of time after most other covid cells have been killed by anti-bodies. This could be why some people seem to be reinfected and suddenly test positive some weeks after a negative test.

[quote] He also had a vacation home, on Statin Island, I understand.

They have an island just for cholesterol medication?

Yes, r117.

It’s an island surrounded by gravy.

Link, r116?

Based on your poor writing, I’m sure you misinterpreted everything in any article you read.

The CDC did say On February 25th: “we’re going to have to get used to living in a different way”. That’s really the scariest thing I‘Ve heard, about this moment. Just think about it: who it comes from, and what it might mean!

When you realize the economy is nothing but a house of cards you start to realize even small disruptions are disastrous. I'm of the opinion we should NEVER have gone off the gold standard.

DL -- which was only ever meant as a vehicle for "pointless bitchery" -- may not be the place for these conversations.

OP (for example) seems to be either a casual troll or a professional one, but a shit-stirrer either way.

Partisan politics and zero-sum arguments run amok in our threads, as they do in our world. It's reasonable to imagine solutions for our time during/after quarantine -- but we can barely have those conversations when differences of opinion are being dismissed as worthy of COVID death, and some posters are getting off on variations of fatalistic death porn.

Capitalism is dead. Globalism is dead. In five years, we will live in a radically altered world.

That one guy in New Rochelle, NY gave covid to his family, his neighbors, his synagogue and a neighboring one.

As transmissions become reduced and we all go back to life as usual, just one positive will make it spread like wildfire again.

Waves of a viral infection can be mitigated if people who were infected previously have immunity and there's a vaccine.

As of now, only 10% of the US population has been infected and we're a year away from a vaccine. Only the most callous of governments would demand we all return to work as usual.

R124, do you really think it’s as low as 10%? I’m guessing it’s closer to 30%-40%. But I have not stats. Just guessing.

R121, Lucifer, I heard there isn’t enough gold in existence to back all our money today. Plus, electronic money is a newer concept that gold can’t support, I don’t think. Maybe this discussion would be for another thread?

A word to the Debbie Downer OP: you're not watching a horror movie. This is real life. Your scenario sounds like an unoriginal horror movie script.

[quote] Waves of a viral infection can be mitigated if people who were infected previously have immunity and there's a vaccine.

These are HUGE ifs. We can’t even get a vaccine for the common cold.

And no one knows if once you have this you’re immune from it or its variations, nor for how long.

Scary shit we’re dealing with here.

R116 Undetectable antibodies could be because of false positives, ie the person never had covid-19, a more sensitive test is needed.

I'm worried that OP is running low on bootleg Xanax.

[quote]Secondarily, by the lockdown, we might see [bold]heard immunity[/bold] develop

Is that anything like aural sex, R61?

The USA has one third of the world's COVID cases. It hasn't been that long since it started here, the contagion is mind-blowing.

And old fat farts just can't stop going out and get infected!!! What the hell is wrong with them? And then they just don't want to die!!! Well, fucking stay home, gramps and stop blocking the aisle!!!!

Wasn't it quaint when DL was talking about whether PrEP would lead to Super AIDS.

Guess what? Covid will kill you quicker

[quote] The USA has one third of the world's COVID cases. It hasn't been that long since it started here, the contagion is mind-blowing.

It’s also startling that 45% of the cases in the U.S. are in just New York and New Jersey. It’s amazing how much better California has managed the disease than New York.

[quote]Wasn't it quaint when DL was talking about whether PrEP would lead to Super AIDS.

[quote]Guess what? Covid will kill you quicker

Some of us speculated that the next AIDS could be airborne and spread through casual contact. Guess what?

[quote]A word to the Debbie Downer OP: you're not watching a horror movie. This is real life. Your scenario sounds like an unoriginal horror movie script.

In case you haven't noticed, we're living in a horror movie right now, with an incompetent game show host as the president.

Yes, we're really going to have to keep this up until there are 0 cases of the virus or until there's a vaccine. Everybody saying otherwise is in denial or very naive. The government knows this too but they know everybody will lose their minds if they say it, so they ease us into it gradually. "It'll be over by Easter I'm sure" turned into "we're extending this until May," and then in May it will be "I promise we'll have some degree of normalcy by June," and they'll keep on extending and extending it one month at a time. Like the frog in boiling water analogy.

So not only do we have the virus to contend with but people will be committing robberies and murders out of desperation to get the things they need, and others will commit suicide. Then you'll have people starve to death because there won't be any jobs so therefore no money to buy food. And many jobs lost are never coming back even after things finally do open back up. Assuming that there's anything to go back to. The virus is very intelligent and possibly incurable because of the antibody situation and the fact that it can evolve and adapt so quickly.

Things are going to get very, very ugly. This could very be the end for all of us. I can't pretend things are going to be okay because I don't think they are. I see no hope. There is no light at the end of this tunnel. Just a door closed in our faces.

Jesus R138 just jump already

R138, you are insane.

Go diddle your clit to your dystopian disaster fantasies somewhere else.

[quote] It’s also startling that 45% of the cases in the U.S. are in just New York and New Jersey. It’s amazing how much better California has managed the disease than New York.

Is is that they managed it better or haven’t they seen their cases explode yet, a la Texas?

I love you, r139!

[quote] So not only do we have the virus to contend with but people will be committing robberies and murders out of desperation to get the things they need,

And y’all were makin’ fun of us for buyin’ ammo?

Make fun of me all you want. I just speak truth. As I said, the government plans to keep us inside until there are 0 cases or until there's a vaccine. But there are never going to be 0 cases and no vaccine will ever work that will be able to keep up with the rapidly changing virus. So we're never going to be able to leave our houses again. And these houses will become our mausoleums. Anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves. They want to see hope where there is none because without hope, they might as well end it all right now. I understand that.

[quote] Yes, we're really going to have to keep this up until there are 0 cases

No, we don’t have to and no doubtably won’t.

Poo Shoes is all over this thread with her hysteria.

R144 Even if your Stephen King scenario came true, wouldn’t at least 80% of the infected recover without hospitalization? Wouldn’t we start considering those who succumb to COVID-19 as a sad but inevitable fact of life? Corona has simply undone many of the medical advances that allowed the chronically ill or genetically disadvantaged to survive beyond their normal lifespans in the first place.

R147, They'll just keep getting it all over again. And each time it will do a little more damage to their system until it finally breaks down completely and it gets them.

Somebody should find a way to inject dead or weakened virus into people to cause their immune systems to produce the antibodies for it.

Well, although R138 makes it sound pretty bad, I think most of us have to agree they’re leading us along a few weeks or months at a time. All the experts are saying 18-24 months until it’s gone. Many are saying it may be around forever, or for years anyway, like measles. And it is harder to make a vaccine for Coronavirus than the flu. People are used to the flu being the gold standard and they relate everything to the flu.

They’re not used to how it was back in the 1920s and 1930s, when polio came around seasonally and people regularly got life threatening diseases like scarlet fever that sometimes left them crippled or killed them. People back then just lived with it because that’s all they knew. People went out and had fun, but when an epidemic of typhoid or polio came around, they stayed in.

But the majority of Americans in those days lived on farms, or walked or took public transportation to work. They were healthier and fitter. The weak were culled by disease.

If we can’t realistically stop this, the answer is to make people healthier. Have fitness and nutrition programs on TV to help people communally exercise and eat better, which they’re doing in other countries by having people mass exercise at a certain time. If people can get it and mostly survive, they’ll calm down.

What’s happening now is culling the sick and weak. People don’t want to hear this, but we may not be able to save a lot of the highest risk people, and if this comes around a second time, a lot of the weakest will already be gone. Or used to isolating.

R138 / R144 may be overdoing it a bit, but look who we have running the country. He and his crowd are going to take every last penny they can and leave the populace fucked. I don't even want to think about where we will be in a few months.

[quote]Wuflu will be one more way human existence is challenged, along with traffic accidents, guns, terrorism, murder, the hundreds of other flu strains, cancer, etc. Until such time as medical science comes up with a Wuflu treatment and/or vaccine or discovers that it is possible to build up immunity.

But the difference is most of us can visually and physically avoid traffic accidents, guns, murder or other catastrophic events. Not in every instance obviously, but in many. In the case of this virus, it's not viewable: you can't see, smell, taste, or touch it. You don't always know who has it, in most cases, or know how to avoid it. That's what makes this different, and frightening.

Another point being missed here: it's not just keeping people alive and healthy, so we can all get back to work and make $. Many citizens work in the public service domain, what happens when their ranks are thinned? Teachers, doctors, nurses. Bus drivers. How will we get back to work without schooling, transit, groceries?

If our military all fall ill and are weakened; if our local police force, or fire departments, are decimated. Who will protect us and keep social and public order? Mayhem and complete breakdown will result.

r152, if you are worried about not having enough people left after this is over, there will always be a hoard from Central America to quickly repopulate any decimated areas.

R152, the fear is the people that die will be highly trained people that can’t be easily replaced. Doctors, nurses etc.

It will be about three months, same as what happened in China. Things should be opening up around June.

China is already getting their second wave - and they were much more diligent about their lockdown.

Someone above mentioned AIDS. Some people have said that when they contracted HIV, they experienced an illness that was like "the worst flu ever". Then the virus works quietly for years, damaging the immune system, with the host unaware of its presence. Is there a way of knowing if this virus has long-term effects (beyond potential lung damage)?

It's interesting but it seems the very old and the young are the ones not taking social distancing seriously. Thank God for my Gen X brothers and sisters we might be the only ones left after this.

r36 - I'm sorry to hear you are feeling down and dealing with the rent. I went through a terrible time myself. I was unemployed from Jan 2015 to Sept 2017. Do you know what saved me? It wasn't job adverts, it wasn't the countless hours doing specific job applications; it wasn't anything people traditionally do. I picked up the phone and called an old - very very distant- hardly remembered me-type of acquaintance. Turns out he was starting a new company and he hired me on the spot - on the phone. I am still working for him to this day. He saved me and took me out of a very bad situation. I don't know you and I don't know your background. But pick up the phone, talk to people, get out there, even though you don't feel like it. Do it. You have to do this - get active, get connected. Don't sit and ponder. Act.

I know this sounds heartless and brutal. Get a good night sleep, enjoy the Easter weekend and start Tuesday. Make a plan. You WILL do it.

I've been quarantining very carefully, here in the South, but I was invited to a friend's for Easter Sunday dinner. There will be a Lesbian couple one of them has MS, and my friend and I and possibly her sister who has also been stuck in the house. So five of us all of whom have been seriously sheltering for the past month with maybe three trips to a supermarket between us. I'm torn. I want to go for a couple hours. But Not sure if it will be safe. It's a private home, no kids or old people. Just five very careful adults one of whom has a weakened immune system.

Well this is super fucking depressing. :(

[quote]China is already getting their second wave - and they were much more diligent about their lockdown.

That’s what they get for ending social distancing too soon. What did they think would happen?

R160 - I suppose if you want something badly enough, humans will rationalize anything. We've been told what to do. If you think your life is worth the risk, then.....that's your decision.

This seems to be promising - we talked about in freakout thread

More “striking” evidence has emerged that the BCG vaccine given to counter TB may provide protection against Covid-19 and significantly reduce death rates in countries with high levels of vaccination.

A study of 178 countries by an Irish medical consultant working with epidemiologists at the University of Texas in Houston shows countries with vaccination programmes – including Ireland – have far fewer coronavirus cases by a factor 10, compared to where BCG programmes are no longer deployed.

This translates into a death rate up to 20-times less, according to urologist Paul Hegarty of the Mater Hospital, Dublin

R138 Fuck you.

The simple pin-prick blood testing kits to detect antibodies (and implied immunity) are faulty:

Yes, but what is a Cheese N’ Egger??

R138, call your doctor and refill your meds.

[quote]The virus is very intelligent and possibly incurable because of the antibody situation and the fact that it can evolve and adapt so quickly.

Please educate yourself, R138.

R166

Did Elizabeth Holmes have something to do with it?

I say it joking but this whole mess has made me think of Bad Blood, especially with who is running our country and private industries competing for treatments and diagnostics

If some people don't have money and go shooting people for what they need, it won't be long before there are no more drug dealers.

"In case you haven't noticed, we're living in a horror movie right now, with an incompetent game show host as the president."

Indeed life is not perfect. But go jump off a bridge if life is that bad. People with shitty attitudes are such a pain in the ass. They bring everything around them down.

R164 thanks for the link. I was one of those discussing BCG vaccination in that thread. It looks like a real correlation, with real protection from the virus. There is also promising examination of the actions of this virus in human systems, in that we may have been treating for the wrong symptoms and outcomes (ARDS/pneumonia vs O1 deprivation/heme hijacking) and doing way more harm than good.

Like I said upthread, we have the best minds in the world working round the clock to figure this thing out, and get some answers. We may not get a foolproof vaccine soon, but we will have better treatment options and protective measures that work in place, to keep things going to a half- or near-normal level. Patience is a virtue.

[quote]But go jump off a bridge if life is that bad. People with shitty attitudes are such a pain in the ass. They bring everything around them down.

Agreed. The Debbie Downers need to go fuck off.

O1 should read "O2", above.

[quote] R160: I've been quarantining very carefully, here in the South, but I was invited to a friend's for Easter Sunday dinner.

You absolutely should [bold] not [/bold] go, and that goes for everybody thinking of spreading the disease at Passover or Easter, unless you can sit 6 feet apart and be served by waiters in hazmat suits.

I know a year seems like a long time, but we all need to put our lives on hold for now, and maybe up to a year. Otherwise, you might catch the disease from a nice Lesbian sitting across the table; or she might catch it from you. Do you really want to be responsible for that? What if you wipe-out all your friends? Remember, COVID-19 is for everybody, even nice people. See link.

Like r172, I'm going to greet the apocalypse with a smile and a POSITIVE attitude!

Plague Police, banging on your door.

Massachusetts’ peak medical usage date is pushed back 5 days to 4/20. I’m eager to get the worst of this over with!

Other states and countries, too, are in the pick-list.

R173, good I am glad you are here! We need to focus on the positive and what we can do and what we already have that can help keep us safe. I know it looks so dire given our president, current administration, and spineless GOP, and bickering Dems.

[quote] In five years, we will live in a radically altered world.

Lol. We’re living in a radically altered world NOW.

Anybody who would go to an "Easter Sunday dinner' in these times is a big fucking selfish idiot. A lot of people have gotten sick (and DIED) because of dumb fucks who go to wedding, funerals, birthday parties, etc. and share food and hug and kiss and basically act like utter retards. People who do this are too stupid to live. And some of them DON'T live because of their idiot actions.

I know a guy who just had a baby 3 months ago. 32. Dead. Father is in the hospital with it as well (doesn't know his son died). Two other family members are in ICU.

Until they develop a vaccine, things are going to get *rough* economically. The good news in only 40 percent approve of the way Dump has handled this crisis.

Lol. Of COURSE R106 is a troll.

R183 Sad.

These dumbasses who whine about wanting things to go back to normal need to STFU and deal with social distancing for as long as necessary because the rest of us don’t want to risk getting this shit.

R182, it’s maddening, isn’t it? Even nice, otherwise careful people can spread COVID-19, unbeknownst to themselves.

I, in particular, want to get through April without getting infected because the nearby hospitals are all swamped right now.

R186, I spoke with his brother to give my condolences and he said how devastating it was they couldn't even give him a proper burial and that they won't tell their father because he already has a heart condition coupled with battling this and now the loss of his son. the mother is going through hell right now as well as the deceased man's wife.

If you go out to buy something (which better be necessary), mask/gloves are MANDATORY. When you get home, take off everything you're wearing and wash it when you can and wash your hands immediately. Wipe every single thing you buy, immediately throw away the bag (if you're not using your own bag). You need to take every precaution you can.

People need to stay away from each other right now. You just need to.

R186 I say let these idiots go back to work and then deny them a ventilator if they become critically ill. It'll make doctors' lives easier because they won't have to choose who gets a chance at recovery and who drowns to death in their own fluids.

r164, what does that mean for TB carriers?

I’m getting huge. It’s still too cold & windy outside. I can’t garden. I can’t walk down the unsidewalked winding country roads. It’s not like there isn’t traffic - every city person with a second home or the money to rent a house here is here, driving around. They’re not too good at driving. I’ve lived here for 20 years & I am nearly hitting joggers on these roads. They are 2 laned and curvy. I’ve slammed on my brakes a few times to avoid hitting someone jogging out from behind a tall hedge or around a curve that’s never had runners in them before.

I only drive to the supermarket, which is pretty emptied out. My husband buys food from a restaurant every night to support local business.

My family is dead. I never prepared myself for that. It’s a problem when you come from a small family. One day, you’re just alone, I lived in the city for 20 years, so all my friends were there. When I had to move out here, I lost my relationship with them because nobody wants to drive out here & back in the same day, but hotels are horrendously expensive here, even in the off season. And you don’t get anything but a bed & bathroom for the money. They’re are no large luxury suites or gourmet meals. Yiu can get a lot more for your money somewhere else. Nobody wants to drive a 5 hour round trip in I’ve day. We’re getting older.

A very good piece about the problems Vegas is facing and why opening could be 3 months or 12 months. Naturally, the author is being attacked by people who want to get back to their tables.

How are coke heads handling the pandemic?

"If you go out to buy something (which better be necessary), mask/gloves are MANDATORY. When you get home, take off everything you're wearing and wash it when you can and wash your hands immediately. Wipe every single thing you buy, immediately throw away the bag (if you're not using your own bag). You need to take every precaution you can."

I think you're kind of hysterical.After venturing outside (only for something ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!) do you swab your body from head to toe with alcohol and peroxide and bleach, too?

Germany has a very low death rate from the virus and America, with a high percentage of people with some German ancestry, also has a relatively small death rate. It looks like areas with fewer German-Americans are the hardest hit.

A nice thing about quarantine is that with less sun we’ll all have less wrinkles and liver spots.

R194, droplets get on clothing. There's nothing wrong with changing your clothes when you get home. I didn't say to dip your body in boiling water or anything. Only to change your clothes, wash your hands and wipe whatever you buy.

R193, I can’t speak to coke, but my pot dealer is offering a discount. A lot of customers must have fled to the Hamptons.

R183 My condolences to your friend and his family, that is terrible.

Regarding wiping stuff down .. I’ve been one who typical has been more of a natural products type or person. Much of the Lysol wipes or spray will make my eczema flare. Should I spray with a diluted hydrogen peroxide or bleach soultion? I don’t have enough rubbing alcohol to be spraying items with.

It’s very hard for me to live by being this exacting.

And as people are murdering one another for food, the DJIA will soar to new highs.

It'll be a lot sooner than a year.

Not because of the economy. Not because of Trump. Not because of anything but the fact that breeders are at home with their crotch fruit 24/7 now [italic]and are ready to kill them[/italic].

(They're also discovering that mean old Mrs. Teacher, who couldn't handle their precious little genius, wasn't the problem after all.)

I honestly don't think it will last that long - because of the societal unrest OP talks about. Maybe it should - but at some point the public health concerns will give way to the economic concerns and everything collateral to that like crime.

What R201 said.

This is lasting until June. At least. If you think it’s going to end sooner then you haven’t been listening to Dr. Fauci. People start gathering and going back to work, then it will spread all over again. New York is the blueprint for what the rest of the country is trying to avoid. Our hospitals will be overwhelmed if we start right back up. You’re delusional if you think this issue will be under control by end of this month or May.

COVID-19 feels like the final nail in America's coffin. I predict the country is going to tear itself apart over the next twelve months. The 2020 election was always going to be a massively divisive event, worse than 2016. Now, it's taking place in the midst of the worst pandemic and economic collapse in a century. (Although, it should be pointed out that the economy was in the stages of a recession before COVID came along). IF Trump wins, the blue states will riot, if Trump loses the red states will riot. The America we knew and grew up in is dead.

R195 German genetics beat corona? I doubt that their gene pool is of consequence, because Germany is in central Europe where there is a LOT of mixed ancestry. However, Germany IS a rule-based society where you are publicly shamed for crossing the street on a red light, so they’ve taken well to social distancing, I’d imagine.

It’s also a culture that thinks highly of science and medicine, so healthcare is a priority. That’s why they have a higher number of hospital beds and healthcare professionals compared to Italy and other neighboring countries.

Many Americans of German descent still hold onto these values despite living in the U.S. - land of excess and immediate gratification. Adhering to German values has much to do with their success in flattening the curve. Compare Germany’s response to the pandemic to their pathetically regressive cousins in the U.K. It has made all the difference.

[quote]I predict the country is going to tear itself apart over the next twelve months.

"Shelter in place" and "social distancing", which ignored the Constitution and rule of law, was the beginning of the end, illustrating how easily fascism can be made palatable to the panicked. Fascist dictator Newsome's "nation-state" declaration is but a further slide down the slope to the destruction of America.

Well, screw those fascists. We should have a big parade celebrating our awesomeness! That will show them.

R208 perfectly proves the point.

R207 Actually Trump's election showed how quickly people were willing to turn to fascism. Also, if you want to go back to work, go for it! Just wave your right to a ventilator should you get sick!

R208 you literally made me LOL!

Lootin, shootin and killin.

R210 Another member of the empty-headed "he's a fascist 'cause we don't like him" mob.

R212 = 50 year old virgin.

Trump can do whatever the hell he wants but many, many key industries that keep the economy going will take years to recover.

Any industry that depends on something made in China is screwed. Even if we make hand sanitizer here, there is a plastic bottle shortage. The bottles come from China.

Stadiums, colleges, restaurants, bars, theaters will reopen with a flurry of activity....but beyond Trump loyalists, nobody will go week 2.

[quote]The virus is very intelligent and possibly incurable because of the antibody situation and the fact that it can evolve and adapt so quickly.

What the fuck?

No, the virus is not "intelligent." Also, this virus is mutating far slower than seasonal flu does, mutating at a rate of about 25 mutations a year versus just over 50 for the seasonal flu.

I guess people like you are either dumb or bored, but god I wish there weren't so many of you jackasses online. You're causing real harm.

Guys, r215 and I just got engaged.

Back. The. Fuck. Off.

I WILL cut a bitch!

(The save the date cards will be in the mail next month.)

DeBlasio said yesterday he doesn’t think there’s going to be an end to working from home in the foreseeable future. He was prognosticating about the next few months, so I’m sure he meant even well beyond that.

DeBlasio is a moron. He was also saying on March 14th that there was no reason to close schools.

I love how people are still calling me crazy and stupid when many people are basically saying the same thing as me. I hope you like the quarantine because you're not going anywhere.

You're crazy because you've been spamming Datalounge with "the government plans on using the military to force us to stay in our homes until we die here" and other assorted melodramatic nonsense. And no, no one is agreeing with you, if for no other reason than Trump very obviously wants us all out of our homes ASAP.

I pretty much avoid most of the news about this, what exactly is going on with school kids? Are they being left back? Summer school? What's the plan for them? I know they're doing online courses, but what about testing?

Force? Americans don't have to be forced. All it takes is some fear mongering to get the panicky and hysterical to do whatever they are told.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

.....

R221 it’s a shit show. Kids at a disadvantage are going to be even more screwed. Even with schools giving laptops and such. PP’s point about child abuse and DV is sadly real for a lot of people.

R223, that's not a surprise to Charles Barkley

[quote]...what exactly is going on with school kids? Are they being left back?

Probably not - but then most of them are never “left back” to begin with. Why start now?

WHAT R204 SAID!

what r201 said.

Thanks Boris Op. Dah, you’re a putz!

I just read on DM (where else?) that 92 or so Koreans were re-tested and were found to be "re-activated" with the virus. I'll try to find the article and post the link. Anyway, good luck with trying to enact back-to-work deadlines for the masses during a pandemic.

[quote] COVID-19 feels like the final nail in America's coffin.

Jesus Fucking Christ. You know the rest of the world is going through the same exact thing right now, right, you stupid fucking cunt?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It can't happen that long. It's just evolution. Let's get on with it and if you die you die, if you don't let's just keep moving.

until a vaccine becomes a reality, nothing will be the same again. i know i would be constantly worrying for myself and especially for my mom - months from now - many out there could be still be infected but asymptomic.

R191 Me too. Hang on. Be brave. Endure.

[quote]others also tested positive after they had 'recovered' earlier this week.

I think it's common for people to suffer the symptoms for a few days and then enjoy a few days symptom-free. Then the virus rallies back for another day or two before the host is completely over it.

Now if a person has been over the virus for a month or two, and it comes back, then that's going to be problematic.

[quote]The virus is very intelligent and possibly incurable because of the antibody situation and the fact that it can evolve and adapt so quickly.

R138 must be Donald Trump. He literally just said “the virus is very smart. It’s invisible but it’s very smart.” “It’s a genius.”

The government's latest projections pretty much confirm that if we lift the stay-at-home orders at the end of the month and try to "go back to normal" (which seems to be the assumption nearly everyone is working under), we'll be fucked, and the situation will be nearly as bad as if we had done nothing at all. We're either facing a summer of staying locked indoors or a summer of death.

[quote] Stay-at-home orders, school closures and social distancing greatly reduce infections of the coronavirus, but lifting those restrictions after just 30 days will lead to a dramatic infection spike this summer and death tolls that would rival doing nothing, government projections indicate.

[quote] The government’s conclusions are sobering. Without any mitigation, such as school closings, shelter-in-place orders, telework and socially distancing, the death toll from the virus could have reached 300,000. But if the administration lifts the 30-day stay-at-home orders, the death total is estimated to reach 200,000, even if schools remain closed until summer, 25 percent of the country continues to work from home and some social distancing continues.

I could care less about sports but that sucks for fans if there is no football season. I feel like that would bum them out more than no basketball or baseball.

If all the NBA, MLB and NFL (even NHL?) hot jocks started OnlyFans jackoff accounts, donating proceeds to COVID research and testing, we'd all be saved!

Why wouldn’t covid-19 be like the common cold, which you can catch over and over again? I don’t think people who get the covid have immunity.

I kind of doubt there will be a vaccine in 18 months. I just don't see it. I think we will find ways to mitigate it and we will have to pursue life with some "more" risk.

I think there are probably tons of people who were exposed, but have good immune systems and developed antibodies without any symptoms. Those people will probably never get sick if they encounter corona again.

I want my electronic Immunity Passport NOW, dammit.

[quote] The lifting of shelter in place has nothing to do with whether anyone feels antsy. It’s based on data and science and the potential for the spread of disease.

Their predictions have been waaaay off though.

We’re actually doing much better than the original predictions. Total deaths are probably going to around 60,000... originally predicted to be 100,000 - 240,000 in best case scenarios.

If we do well, it will be because we heeded the advice of anyone other than Trump and his scumbag admin. Fuck that cunt and his supporters who will lie about his role in making the situation far worse with his incompetence, idiocy and lies. We were ill-prepared for this out of his ever-present need to spite Obama.

Orange, steaming pile of rancid shit.

Well at the end of 18 months, I'll either be 300 lbs or 100 lbs. I'll either sit around and eat all day, or starve because I won't be able to afford food.

R248 preach! We had 2k deaths today alone

I insist on working at home for the rest of the year. I’m not going to risk getting this death virus by going to a stupid office building when I can do all of my work at home. And if they try to force us to go back to the building, they can kiss my ass.

[quote]It can't happen that long. It's just evolution. Let's get on with it and if you die you die, if you don't let's just keep moving.

You first sweetie.

I am so over this quarantine shit. I wish the virus would kill us all and get it over with or just go the fuck away. And when this ends if I am still alive, I never want to hear the words "COVID-19," "coronavirus," "social distancing," or "flatten the curve" for the rest of my life.

More evidence that we're fucked. There's no way to return to anything even remotely close to "normal" anytime soon.

[quote] Over the past few days, I’ve been reading the major plans for what comes after social distancing. You can read them, too. There’s one from the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute, the left-leaning Center for American Progress, Harvard University’s Safra Center for Ethics, and Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Romer.

[quote] I thought, perhaps naively, that reading them would be a comfort — at least then I’d be able to imagine the path back to normal. But it wasn’t. In different ways, all these plans say the same thing: Even if you can imagine the herculean political, social, and economic changes necessary to manage our way through this crisis effectively, there is no normal for the foreseeable future. Until there’s a vaccine, the US either needs economically ruinous levels of social distancing, a digital surveillance state of shocking size and scope, or a mass testing apparatus of even more shocking size and intrusiveness.

[251] Today, my boss suggested we go back to the office next Monday. I told him that neither he nor the job is worth risking my life and I that I wouldn't go back until there is a vaccine. I have to ride a train to get to work. He drives and parks in a ramp across the street from the office. I told him the decision to return would be mine, not his.

R253 Cry me a river you fucking pussy. You don’t know what REAL isolation is crybaby.

R255 Good! Don’t back down. If you can do your work just fine at home, he can fuck off. There is no reason we should risk our lives for a fucking job that can be done just as easily at home.

Where do you live that would even be a suggestion right now R255? The country is hitting a peak. Everyone has been told not even to go to grocery stores for the next two weeks. Your boss is a moron.

So do you believe him?

Why specifically grocery stores?

There's a grocery store in my neighborhood where the owner is this old Arab guy (definitely over 65) and he keeps coming to work with gloves and mask. He said his doctor told him he shouldn't be doing it not only because of his age, but he survived a heart attack and cancer, but he's been there a long time and said he needs to make sure his customers get what they need. His employees keep trying to stock the shelves, but they can't keep up with demand.

Are we really not recommend to go to the grocery for the next 2 weeks? I have unperishiables but we eat a lot of fresh fruits and veg, dairy.

The magnitude of all of this is overwhelming.

I’m over sitting in my apartment all day. We need to open everything up and let the chips fall where they may.

The biggest problem facing the Earth is overpopulation. What is the genuine harm of losing a few million of the weakest members of society to this disease? Mother Nature is fighting back against the human race. Let her do what she needs to do. The rest of us should get back to work.

R263, you have no loved ones, I take it.

[quote]The biggest problem facing the Earth is overpopulation. What is the genuine harm of losing a few million of the weakest members of society to this disease? Mother Nature is fighting back against the human race. Let her do what she needs to do. The rest of us should get back to work.

Thoughts like this do cross my mind from time to time...but it's also killing plenty of doctors and nurses, and more than a few young people. If the hospitals become overwhelmed with c-19 patients (most of whom will not die, as long as they get appropriate care), what happens if you end up needing treatment for something else and they don't have a bed for you?

[quote]there is no normal for the foreseeable future. Until there’s a vaccine, the US either needs economically ruinous levels of social distancing, a digital surveillance state of shocking size and scope, or a mass testing apparatus of even more shocking size and intrusiveness.

What's wrong with the third/last option? Mass testing would not be difficult for most Americans or Europeans to fit into their lives. Don't you want to know if you're infected, so you can seem proper treatment AND stay home to protect others? I don't see a problem with having this implemented.

It will cost some $ to get it up and running but it can be done. Better to spend the many millions to fund this, rather than lose trillions in a plummeting economy due to the uncertainly we live in now. Social distancing won't kill us either, we can get used to this if implemented smartly.

The "surveillance" they mean is epidemiological surveillance/tracing, which will be a part of an overall containment strategy, but not the main part. If we implement the other two methodologies properly - mass testing and social distancing - this option won't be as necessary.

What I meant to add to my post at r266 is, what is so 'intrusive' about mass testing? there is plenty of health surveillance going on even before COVID-19, with mandatory test reporting in many states. Many states mandate that cases of TB or hepatitis are reported to the state and local Boards of Health or Dept of Public Health, this has already been ongoing even though many don't realize it.

So we do mass testing, and the results are reported in mass database collection. I don't have a problem with this, given the widespread scale of the spread of this. Within a few more months, everyone will have had it.

Everything will be reopened prematurely because we’re selfish, uncooperative infants.

“Go shopping, everyone, and die.”

And so it begins. When the deaths start piling up, is he just going to cover it up.

I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't revoke quarantine guidelines in the next 12 to 18 days.

r101 barf. the "greatest generation" were a bunch of racist, homophobic, corny, xenophobic, wife beating, pedo, child beating maniacs. go watch 50's school films about gay people trolling the Leave it to Beaver neighborhood looking to rape everyone. The only reason they did well economically is that they killed everyone during WW2 and the other economics were ruined. Their stoic mannerisms were because they were raised to be chain smoking John Wayne strong silent type wannabes. They raised their children to be Baby Boomers, the worst people who ever lived, because their parents were garbage trash people. Boomers couldn't bother to raise children - too selfish, you get my generation - X - and I had to raise myself, my sister went off touring with a punk band at 15, and my brother was sent to boarding school. Boomers are so shitty, that THEY know they are shitty. I HAD NO ADVERSITY? I was taking care of myself at 12. Nobody knew where I was, I skipped school every day, and lived on my own at 16. That greatest generation bullshit pisses me off. Saving Private Ryan straight up propaganda, glorifying war and killing people, as though THAT is what makes people resilient and great. YUCK.

These dumbasses. All the gains we've made with social distancing will be erased.

R269, I doubt they could cover up that many deaths by having all of the healthcare workers going along with the lie.

R273, did you see the news from NY today re cardiac deaths? They've spiked 400%. Most likely from COVID-19, but it will be recorded as a cardiec event. Red states will fudge the numbers.

All that being said, if they lift the stay at home orders, the numbers may be too high for them to avoid notice.

Let all the retards who want to get sick go out and catch the virus. Just keep the fuck away from the rest of us.

Even if they lift it, I'll just continue to stay home and when I need to go out, gloves/mask and will scream at anyone who comes near me - and I won't look crazy doing it because I'm sure I won't be alone in feeling that way.

Here's another one. They're lying about the numbers.

And the positive news is: Traffic fatalities, gun deaths, muggings, robberies, assaults, rapes, murders and other rampant crimes that are part and parcel of life in angry, violent America are WAY down to non-existent.

Why don't you start a new thread about hiding CV19 death #s? This thread is about the possible duration of global quarantine.

[quote]Absolutely not. This stay at home order will not last after April.

This morning, Los Angeles extended Safer at Home until May 15th.

[quote]I’m over sitting in my apartment all day. We need to open everything up and let the chips fall where they may. The biggest problem facing the Earth is overpopulation. What is the genuine harm of losing a few million of the weakest members of society to this disease?

The utter selfishness of the "I'm bored, let's just kill several million people" mentality is mind-boggling.

And the people we're losing are not "the weakest members of society," you just said that because you're looking for excuses to make it okay to let a few dozen million people die so you can go get a Big Mac whenever you want.

The point about hiding the deaths is that red states will do this to give reason to prematurely lift their stay at home orders.

[quote]The utter selfishness of the "I'm bored, let's just kill several million people" mentality is mind-boggling.

indeed

[quote] The utter selfishness of the "I'm bored, let's just kill several million people" mentality is mind-boggling.

Exactly. Americans have become so spoiled, so pampered, so entitled, and so self-centered. We can't deal with even the slightest inconvenience. We can't make even the smallest sacrifices. The thought of having to spend a few more weeks in our homes (for most of us, homes with Internet access, access to various delivery services, cable TV, and an assortment of modern appliances and gadgets) has become so unbearable that many people are now openly advocating that we just let millions of people die and burden our doctors and nurses (literally) to death. That's where we're at.

Trust me, folks, I would LOVE to stay home but can’t.

[quote]And the positive news is: Traffic fatalities, gun deaths, muggings, robberies, assaults, rapes, murders and other rampant crimes that are part and parcel of life in angry, violent America are WAY down to non-existent.

America's mass shooters must be getting itchy trigger fingers. Where can they go now, except for hospitals and grocery stores?

A bit of perspective. From 2018:

Flu killed 80,000 people this past season and put 900,000 into the hospital, making it the worst influenza season in decades, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.

Here's some more perspective. From 2020.

[quote] The U.S. topped 1,000 coronavirus deaths in a single day for the first time Wednesday, a daily death toll more than double that of two of America's most deadly illnesses – lung cancer and the flu.

R288 And? 1,000 people die today. 6 people die tomorrow. Fear mongering. Effective. Obviously.

Except that, at least in New York, the numbers of dead is rising and rising.

If it were mapped on a graph it would be an arrow going straight up. So we shouldn’t do anything, right?

R290 It's not a value judgement. It's manipulating statistics for agenda. Which is BAD.

R284 = The profound truth.

R289 = Hopefully, there's a grease fire with your name on it.

2018 was a year when the flu vaccine didn’t work well and had a very low rate of effectiveness. I took the vaccine anyway and ended up getting the flu anyway. It was the worst flu I’ve had since I was a kid. I ran a very high fever. Lots of body aches.

I was thinking about that flu yesterday, because I remember experts saying the three flus they used for that vaccine were the wrong ones. That’s why it was so ineffective. They have to guess if the flus they are including in the vaccine are the most likely ones, and they guessed wrong.

I was wondering, is there any possibility the “flu” of 2018 was actually an earlier version of this Coronavirus? Because the flu vaccine didn’t work, and that flu didn’t have a lot of head congestion either. I remember thinking it wasn’t like a regular flu. And back then, no one would have tested for Coronavirus and doctors would have assumed it was the flu. Any possibility both the flu and a Coronavirus were going on at the same time, causing so many deaths?

And The Trump administration has zero plans for how to contain this virus and re-open society, other than, “let’s do it!” So sad. This moron is such a spectacular failure of leadership, why is he even running for re-election? He has NOTHING to offer the American people. NOTHING.

R292 And a germ with your name on it.

They're talking about at least the end of May. By then we'd have a good view of where we stand- and where we're headed. And maybe everyone could be tested, to know their status.

[quote]Because the flu vaccine didn’t work, and that flu didn’t have a lot of head congestion either.

There are 4 main types of flu. And over 600 different strains worldwide. That flu jab you get in Fall is a worldwide guesstimate of WHICH flu strain may be prevalent in Winter.

Here’s a comparison between Coronavirus death estimates and flus.

Here’s the article that goes with the graph:

R164 a Japanese friend speculated that the infection and fatality rates in Japan have been low due to TB vaccination for every baby/toddler. He said normally Japanese kids get the shot by age 2. Japan, particularly, Tokyo, has incredible population density. Sure they could be under-reporting but by any measure the infection rates in Japan are really low compared to megacities like NYC, London, or Paris.

Selfishly, I hope there's something to this as I was vaccinated against TB as a kid.

R300 India should be a good study for that as they get BCGs there. The effectiveness of the BCG wears off after about 10 years though.

I was vaccinated against TB several times just a couple years ago for a previous job. But I still got Covid-19 in February.

I'm just sayin'

[quote] Selfishly, I hope there's something to this as I was vaccinated against TB as a kid.

Personally, I don’t find anything selfish about this at all. Nothing. Self-preservation is paramount.

"More evidence that we're fucked. There's no way to return to anything even remotely close to "normal" anytime soon."

If your attitude is that "we're fucked" then I suggest you jump off the top of a tall building and put yourself out of your misery. I think that would be the most sensible action for someone like you.

R300, the death rates in Japan have been low because Abe falsified the data so the Olympics could go on. Now that it seems the Olympics might be permanently cancelled in Tokyo, we're now seeing the signs of a genuine pandemic there. I spoke to two different friends living in Tokyo and they both said that no one took it seriously because the government didn't. It was business as usual until a few days ago. Now that the veil has been lifted, we're starting to see some shocking numbers come out of Japan.

r300/301 its the BCG vaccine, a specific type of early TB vaccine used in many countries. There have been posts in other threads about this, the research community has made the potential connection and is investigating this.

Its supposed to confer decent levels of protection against COVID, the countries with an active recent BCG program are showing much lower infection and death rates. Further research is needed to see if the causal relationship holds.

I loved R271's pointless vitriolic rant.

The Lone Star state's about to become a new epicenter. Yee-Haw!

r305, they are scheduled for September 2021, I thought.

In that desperate situation, I am sure the mob will first attack people who begin their sentences with SO.

R309, a few days ago, the head of the Tokyo Olympics essentially said that they can't guarantee the 2021 Olympics will take place because of Covid19. This is pretty big since they were guaranteeing the Olympics only a month or so ago.

You wanna make an omelette ya gotta break a few eggs.

FYI Here's my new normal. I leave the house to buy some "absolutely necessary" Groceries. I have thin latex gloves on, I have a surgical mask on, and I have a small baggie with toweling saturated with lysol cleanser. I know exactly what I need so I'm not in the store very long. I try to go in the middle of the week early in the morning around 7:30 or so. I have my own shopping cart, collapsible. I take the stuff out of the backseat, put it in my cart and get the elevator to my apartment. When I get in, I empty the cart on the floor. I put the produce in the sink with luke warm water and vinegar, let it soak. I spray all the boxed and canned goods then wipe them down. I wipe down the shopping cart. I wash my hands with the gloves on. Hot soapy water. Then I take the gloves off and wash them again. I go to my car and wie off the steering wheel and the seats. That's my new normal.

R313 you sound gay

R313 sounds like the morning grooming monologue from American Psycho.

R314, this is a gay site for gay people to talk about gay things. If you’re not a gay man or a lesbian, you are not welcome here. We don’t want you in our bars and we don’t want you on our sites. You have the entire rest of the internet to fart up with your inane, bigoted frau fixations.

No one needs to die because you’re bored, R263, you fucking sociopath. Grow up. If you want to get it, feel free to walk in a hospital and start licking things. We’ll see how far that gets you.

You just know r263 is so arrogant that he thinks he's immune; that he's so healthy he could never ever catch it. If he does, don't waste a ventilator on him even when he begs. Allow him to do his part for "overpopulation." If he's strong, he won't need the ventilator anyway. If he's weak, well...let the chips fall where they may

[quote] R263: weeks? I have unperishiables but we eat a lot of fresh fruits and veg, dairy.

You sound like my sister in late February when I was encouraging her to stock-up on everything. I even sent her a list. Again, not necessarily to avoid the virus, but mostly because all our neighbors will panic and buy-out the stores. I told her to buy potatoes, as they are long lasting, and her response was to complain that even potatoes can go stale.

I wanted to reach through the phone and slap her! They won’t taste stale when you have no other food, I thought. R263, you’ll just have to change your diet for a few weeks. Problem solved.

R318 Mary!

[quote] I’m over sitting in my apartment all day. We need to open everything up and let the chips fall where they may. The biggest problem facing the Earth is overpopulation. What is the genuine harm of losing a few million of the weakest members of society to this disease?

How Hitlerian!

[quote] R291: It's not a value judgement. It's manipulating statistics for agenda. Which is BAD.

I think it was Stalin who said that there are three kinds of lies, they are “lies”, “damn lies”, and “statistics”.

If Trump wants to “open up the economy“, let’s start with resuming tourist visits to the White House.

My potatoes start sprouting after 7-10 days, that's not very long-lasting!

YOU know I would bet you a fortune that someone or several someones in Trump's orbit have said the very thing R263 is saying. The virus will kill mostly minorities and the elderly, and the people with chronic underlying medical conditions. Shit. That's Steven Miller's wet dream. And the Insurance industry and the healthcare industry will love it. So will the White nationalists. That Ayn Rand survival of the fittest thing is alive and well and a foundation of the guiding principles of the Republican Party.

I've had to change my vegetable routine. I but more broccoli and brussel sprouts because they last longer. Look the fact is, very soon, in a matter of months we are going to start experiencing shortages of all kinds of fresh produce. All the varieties of even non perishables are going to be limited. Trump has fucked up our economy in ways he could never have dreamed of. Who ever is President will have a really difficult time untangling this shitmess.

Trump just wants to get back to Mar-a-Lago for Asian massage-with-happy ending. Melania doesn't have sex with him anymore so that's why so many trips south. Impossible to arrange such things in the White House.

[quote] R310: In that desperate situation, I am sure the mob will first attack people who begin their sentences with SO.

My Japanese friend did not start every sentence with “ah-so”, He did however, end every sentence with “Ah” and begging every next sentence with “So”. It was very subtle and I didn’t notice it for a long time.

Walt Disney World announced they would be putting 43,000 employees on furlough this week..........the Florida economy will take years to recover from this and the DeSantis response has been disastrous......

[quote] R324: My potatoes start sprouting after 7-10 days, that's not very long-lasting!

You should be storing them in a cool dark place. Are you?

My hospital, Mass General, is now scheduling elective appointments, starting in June.

I hate to say this but I think we're going to go through a few cycles of this in the US. It doesn't really matter if your state gets this under control if another state doesn't and because of the selfishness and idiocy of Trump and the Republican governors it's not under control. Sometimes when I watch Cuomo I wonder why NY doesn't secede.

[quote] My hospital, Mass General, is now scheduling elective appointments, starting in June.

They can schedule all they want, it's not going to happen and why the fuck would you want to go to a coronavirus infected hospital if you don't need to.

R333, it’ll all be MtFs who will go to get breast implants and then begin screaming about being Literally Murdered when they catch CV19 from the hospital.

I’m not going near a doctor’s office or a hospital for at least 6-9 months unless it’s an ABSOLUTE emergency.

Trump wanted the virus to wash over American. He is a fucking psychopath

[quote]My hospital, Mass General

You have your own hospital? Well, lah-dee-DAH!

Over the coming weeks and months, the 1%s are going to do everything they can to try and push us to 'return to normal' not because they care about our economic situation, rather, they have the most to lose financially if this goes on any longer. I think it will prove to be both fatal and counterproductive. I think a lot of people will be too scared AND there will likely be another large spike in cases come the fall and early winter.

I get why some people want to return to 'normal' life, it's a natural reaction during a traumatic event. Denial is a powerful drug and coping mechanism. The reality is, we're never going back to 'normal.' We are in the midst of a major historical turning point and Lord knows what will happen. The economic model most of us have lived under our entire lives is dead. Granted, it's been dying for years now and COVID has only moved forward the inevitable. America will be hit hardest and the least able to cope, which is why I think the possibility of us slipping into full-blown authoritarianism (whether under Trump or someone else) is a very, very, VERY real outcome of all this. It's going to take at least five years before we understand the long term repercussions. Like with 9/11, it took about 5 years to really see how America's policies changed.

[quote]America will be hit hardest and the least able to cope

Americans are so clueless to what is happening around the world.

Actually the US is coping well compared to most.

R339 Yes the US is doing great....I mean we have the highest infection rate and the highest and fastest rising death toll in the world!

We are finally number one in the world in something again. And according to some people on this tread, it'll all be over with the end of April. Isn't that special?

Bullshit, r340. Link to your ridiculous statistics.

Number of cases is not the same as infection rate.

The US has much more population than any of those countries, so of course there’s more infections, but not infection rate. Current death rate is approx 2-3% of cases in the US; Italy is close to 8-9%.

R342 is an idiot.

In other words, you can’t refute.

Well of course you can’t, you’re wrong.

Um R342...this thing ain't over by a long shot

I'm in Australia but here's a story one of our major new programs just broadcast. Basically, US has the highest INFECTION Rate in the world when you take into account case count to population . America's infection rate is 4X Spain's and 7Xs Canada and 12X Australias.

America has a large proportion of conspiracy theorists, from both the right and the left. Native born and immigrants. I have family members who have sent me videos claiming this whole thing is an exaggerated hoax designed to subdue the American populace. I know so many people who are not taking this seriously at all.

Wasn't it supposed to be over by Easter?

R347, the vast majority of conspiracy theorists are right-wingers, by a enormous, overwhelming amount. The right-wing is practically a conspiracy theory factory.

If this lasts more than another month, I'm coming out of quarantine.

Exactly, R349. It really is so fucking lazy to do the "both sides" bullshit when for one "left-wing" conspiracy, I could come up with 10 from those parasites on the right.

I mean for fuck sake, the god damned president himself spreads conspiracy theories along with his favorite new network. OAN started this insane lie about Fauci starting COVID-19 specifically to hurt Trump, so show me a fucking insane left-wing theory that comes close to that one.

I choose life.

I choose life.

Like some disaster movie. They must have $pent their nest eggs on that trip to Disneyland.

The quarantine should end at the end of May. We can not kill our economy. We can lose 20% of our population. It is sad but WWII was sad also.

[quote] R333: They can schedule all they want, it's not going to happen and why the fuck would you want to go to a coronavirus infected hospital if you don't need to.

“Elective” isn’t really an accurate description. My problem is tolerable now, weighed against my doctor treating a bunch of the near-dead on respirators, I can put it off. But I don’t want to put it off forever.

R355, after we’ve flattened the curve in the initial states, such as on the Coasts, we’ll still be short medical personal and supplies for a while because we’ll send whatever excess we have to the other states, mostly in the interior. So, the critical time for your own state will be much longer that anticipated.

After the virus is better understood, they’ll start calculating how many prematurely dead will we get if we reopen the economy, vs. the cost of the continued shutdown. They’ve probably already done that calculation and concluded that the massive losses originally expected would be more costly than the cost of the initial shutdown.

If Trump butts in, and you know he will, he’ll make a “gut” decision to prematurely open the country. Fortunately, the States don’t have to listen to him. If they do, possibly due to Trump’s blackmail, we could actually lose all the benefit we’d gained but still take the hit to the economy, which will be made worse when he have to have another lockdown.

In a situation like this, you should act out of an abundance of caution, and stay closed for longer than “best case scenario”.

R324, it’s the light that’s making the potatoes sprout. And don’t keep them in a plastic container. They need to be well ventilated. I keep mine in a milk crate in a dark shelf.

If you leave them in the light, they sprout really fast. Especially if they’re damp. I have one on my counter right now that’s sprouting. I’m trying to grow more, which I’ve heard is pretty easy.

The deaths rates should go down, even as infection rates plateau or stay steady, as the medical community implements stable and improved measures for treating the most seriously ill, in hospital. This is already starting to take shape, and hopefully a drop in COVID-related mortality will show in the coming weeks.

The social distancing measures should have helped infection rates, and slowed them down. If we can keep the basics of these in place, esp for the most medically vulnerable, while also implementing mass testing (both for active infection and antibodies), we could start to bring people back to work (and perhaps school) on a rolling basis.

(R355) Dream on. End of May? 😂😂😂

R313 Nothing lasts forever. Hang in there.

I'm never leaving my house again.

[quote]we’ll still be short medical personal and supplies

Oh, dear!

This needs to wrap up by May 1. There is absolutely no reason why all healthy people shouldn’t be given masks and gloves and sent back to work. If you’re elderly then by all means continue to self-isolate, but the rest of us need to get on with our lives.

If this tries to go to June 1 there will be riots in the street.

R364 = Trump

...or one of his toadies...

History could probably tell us. i'm curious how it went down during the Spanish flu , specifically, in a populous city- like maybe New York? Did they have lockdown as well ? and how long it last?

[quote] There is absolutely no reason why all healthy people shouldn’t be given masks and gloves and sent back to work.

This has been said ad nauseam, how do you know you’re “healthy”? Just because you don’t have symptoms?

[quote] If you’re elderly then by all means continue to self-isolate, but the rest of us need to get on with our lives.

For some of us that means seeing our elderly parents and/or grandparents, which we wouldn’t be able to do for fear of infecting them.

R366 they did a study on St. Louis and Philadelphia regarding the Spanish flu. St. Louis handled it better, got a jump on it and Philly didn't resulting in many more deaths

[quote]how do you know you’re “healthy”? Just because you don’t have symptoms?

R367 Yes, that's exactly how it works. The assumption is if you don't have symptoms you're healthy. Not, well, you don't have symptoms, but you still may very well be sick. If that was the case, then everyone should assume they have every disease known to man, including HIV, cancer, MERS, SARS, etc. In other words, absurd.

If after four weeks of quarantine you don’t have symptoms, then you’re obviously not sick, and by May 1 it will really be more like six weeks of quarantine. Plus, if the healthy ones are all wearing masks and gloves, then we should be fine.

If you have symptoms or feel you are high-risk, then continue to stay home. The rest of us want to get back to our work and our lives.

[quote] The assumption is if you don't have symptoms you're healthy. Not, well, you don't have symptoms, but you still may very well be sick.

Are you posting from February?

[quote] If you have symptoms or feel you are high-risk, then continue to stay home. The rest of us want to get back to our work and our lives.

You could leave your house and pick it up immediately, be either asymptomatic or asymptomatic for up to two weeks.

Believe me, there’s nothing more I’d like to do than to stay home. Alas, as an essential worker, I can’t.

But you rush right on back to work. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your commitment. After all, they’ve probably treated you great so far, right? Paying you for your time home I assume?

I'm losing track. Is there ANY place in the US where you can go to a restaurant for a meal?

Only Mama’s house, r372.

Why do people like R370 even exist in society...???

[quote]You could leave your house and pick it up immediately, be either asymptomatic or asymptomatic for up to two weeks.

And the operative word is COULD. Just like you COULD leave your house and be hit by a bus. Life is not a 100% certainty. It's absurd to demand that it be.

R371, I’m not being paid to stay home actually. Haven’t been fired, but I’m not being paid until I return to work.

I have sat dutifully at home for weeks, only leaving my apt to grab a few groceries. It’s clear after weeks and weeks that I’m fortunate enough to not have been infected. I realize there’s a risk anytime one leaves the apt, even if it’s just to take a walk, but at some point we have to move on. We don’t have to reopen everything instantly, but what if offices can reopen with 25 or 50% of their staff returning? Keep distancing and wearing masks, but get things slowly up and running again.

Rent will come due, as will the rest of the bills, and we can’t sit inside for months while a vaccine is found and dispensed.

[quote] And the operative word is COULD. Just like you COULD leave your house and be hit by a bus. Life is not a 100% certainty. It's absurd to demand that it be.

You’re absolutely right. Which is why you don’t run onto a freeway. What you do instead is mitigate the chances of that happening. Which is what we’re doing.

For themselves, r374.

For no one else but themselves.

R374, he's a Trumpian agent/loon/secret Russian/stupid ass troll. I want to say he doesn't exist in RL, but I know people who think like that. They don't give a shit about people as long as their political agenda (straight from Trump) gets served.

[quote]Are you posting from February?

Yeah, that claim by R369 was just bizarre, r371. Are they a shut-in with no access to news and no knowledge of virus behavior? Have they not been paying attention at all and just woke up from a 60-day sleeping binge? Given the paranoid conspiracy theories the idiot spouts, I suspect it's willful ignorance. Example:

[quote]Unlike you, the more sensible and rational would characterize media coverage as sensational and alarmist to keep the masses paranoid, hysterical and compliant.

Or:

[quote]"Shelter in place" and "social distancing", which ignored the Constitution and rule of law, was the beginning of the end, illustrating how easily fascism can be made palatable to the panicked. Fascist dictator Newsome's "nation-state" declaration is but a further slide down the slope to the destruction of America.

Or:

[quote]Force? Americans don't have to be forced. All it takes is some fear mongering to get the panicky and hysterical to do whatever they are told.

I'd say just let him be, as he's clearly an idiot.

Damn this is getting me down.

My potatoes sprout pretty early, my guess is because I’m leaving in the bags!

PP- I guess we are getting the fresh stuff now while we still can. I’m looking into restarting our CSA box for fresh produce

R5, posters like you wish that the whole human race was wiped out

[quote] Which is why you don’t run onto a freeway. What you do instead is mitigate the chances of that happening. Which is what we’re doing.

R377 Buses run on the street as well. Which is why I mentioned them. You don't stay off the street to "mitigate your chances". You continue on with your life. Or at least the sane and rational do.

Poor R380 feels very threatened. Attempts to stave off panic by sprewing childish pejoratives. Did it help?

^^^ spewing ^^^

LOL... I don't feel "threatened" by you, R383. I'm amused by the paranoid ignorance, nothing more. Your own words condemn you far more effectively than I ever could. Alas, the amusement wears thin with your every new ignorant, but oh so "sane and rational" post, so I'll move on and leave you to wallow in your fear and paranoia about "the destruction of America."

Do have fun in your own little world. Maybe you can rejoin us in the real world someday.

You know I took this seriously from the beginning and was fully behind closures, travel restrictions etc... I was frustrated by people comparing it to the flu and downplaying the situation we were in but I am now looking around and thinking that people are letting fear overtake any type of logic. It reminds me of the aftermath of 9/11. I post on a few travel forums and one related to my job and all forums have now been hijacked by people who are insistent that everything will be closed until at least summer 2021. They are okay with letting people fall deep into debt and poverty, okay with universities closing, young people being laid off and their employers closing up forever. They believe everything from malls to cruises to county fairs are gone forever and anyone who disagrees is accused of being an idiot, a murderer, a selfish jackass. I'm now worried that fear is taking over and people will allow our freedoms to be stripped, companies to go bankrupt and every little joy in life will be taken away.

I also think when a vaccine is available it will be very difficult to ensure every person gets the vaccine. I'm already seeing posts that people will not be trusting the vaccine and won't be getting it and these are my European friends who would usually be very supportive of government intervention and public healthcare.

[quote] This needs to wrap up by May 1. There is absolutely no reason why all healthy people shouldn’t be given masks and gloves and sent back to work.

It would good if the government set up something like the CCC or WPA for the unemployed so that people got the benefit of working instead of sitting at home collecting benefits.

[quote]Do have fun in your own little world. Maybe you can rejoin us in the real world someday.

Us? You post only for yourself. And your real world consists of yourself alone shrieking pejoratives at anyone who doesn't share your very peculiar worldview.

Two people in my Podunk, hillbilly hometown (pop. 5,000) have incredibly been diagnosed positive for Covid-19. I mean, middle of nowhere. How? Are truckers transporting it from state to state? Is it arriving on grocery store items? Internet packages?

My cancer-stricken octogenarian mother (already a germaphobe) is terrified of leaving the house.

R387 people out working in large groups and spreading the virus between them and into their communities. Yeah, that sounds like a great idea, if you're a crazy person.

[quote]shrieking pejoratives at anyone who doesn't share your very peculiar worldview.

There's that projection again. Take a look at the quotes in R380 for an example of someone with a "very peculiar worldview."

[quote] My cancer-stricken octogenarian mother (already a germaphobe) is terrified of leaving the house.

I don’t blame her. I’m a helluva lot younger than she is and I don’t want to leave mine, but I have no choice.

[quote]If after four weeks of quarantine you don’t have symptoms

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the population (if that much) has done a 100% self-quarantine. Pretty much everyone has had to interact with someone or something from outside their homes for one reason or another. Grocery pickup or delivery (even if they never went into a store), mail, etc. Virtually everyone has had a possible contaminant in close proximity, no matter how careful they've been with masks, gloves, sanitizer, etc.

Is this what it's like to be an incel?

Depends R395, do you desperately want to fuck women while being terrified of them and hating them at the same time?

They just announced that if we stopped staying at home now, 95% of people in Los Angeles would get it.

So how many deaths does that boil down to?

As of 2018, population of 3.99 million

95% = 3,795,000

1.5% die = 56,750

USA population: 328,000,000

95% = 311,600,000

1.5% die = 4,674,000

Then you have to think about, what happens if 95% get sick? They say 80% survive without any serious complications.

Los Angeles: 95% get it. 3,795,000

80% are okay: 3,036,000

20% are not ok and need to go to the hospital: 759,000

Total hospital beds in Los Angeles: 75,000

United States: 95% get it: 311,600,000

80% are ok: 249,280,000

20% are not ok and need hospitalization: 62,320,000

Total hospital beds in the U.S.: 924,107

[quote]As of 2018, population of 3.99 million

Do you really think a virus respects city limits?

r398, what kind of dumbass draws that conclusion?

I’m using that as an example, R398. The figure quoted was for Los Angeles, so I’m using that as an example. These are ballpark figures. No one knows what the exact number would be.

1.5% mortality rate would be really low if we ran out of ventilators. Then the fatality rate jumps way up. We’re only doing as well as we are now because everybody that needed a ventilator got one. Obviously, if we have a lot more people that need ventilators, the death rate goes up.

There’s been a lot of talk about the large number of cases in the U.S., but by capita, our mortality rate has actually been pretty low compared to other countries. That’s because we have enough ventilators right now. If everyone that needs a ventilator doesn’t get it, that’s a death sentence for that person. Maybe they could have made it, but without a ventilator they wouldn’t have a chance.

And they’re already saying in NYC, if your heart fails and they can’t revive you, don’t even bring you into the hospital. Just leave it. I guess the body goes right to the mortician. So that’s probably more heart attack deaths than usual.

Because it's silly to use any place with artificial boundaries as an example. Use a metropolitan area. People who live in the Los Angeles city limits don't all go to hospitals in LA. People who live outside the city limits might.

R401, It’s not my figure, I’m getting it from CNN. Who’s getting it from Los Angeles.

A 1.5% case fatality rate might be conservative. NYC's is over 5% isn't it? It's 8% globally.

R403, I used an extremely conservative figure to stave off criticism about exaggerating.

If we stopped the quarantine, the caseload would go way up and you would definitely see an 8% or more death rate.

If 20% need hospitalization, what percent of those need a ventilator? At this point they’re only hospitalizing people that can’t get enough oxygen on their own. So that’s people getting oxygen from one machine or another.

If half of those people can’t be helped, because there aren’t enough machines, what’s the death rate then? 10%? Maybe.

R404, agreed.

That’s the problem, the innocent people outside of LA would affected. If it affected just LA, most people in the country would be okay with it.

Boston University is not planning to open their campus until January.

R407, that’s probably realistic. It might even be a little early, because flu season isn’t over until a month of two after that. So maybe that will be the end of Coronavirus, I hope.

[quote]Boston University is not planning to open their campus until January.

No way, that long?

Drump is actually right that we could open the country by Easter Sunday

Most colleges and universities are telling their students there will be no fall semester so don’t come, R409.

How are people supposed to go to work in NYC? They depend on overcrowded buses, subways & regional railroad networks like Metro North, PATH & LIRR. While suburbanites might have cars, millions of city dwellers don’t. People aren’t going to walk from the Bronx to their jobs in midtown Manhattan in the pouring rain. And traffic jams of epic proportions will occur if suburbanites eschew public transport & take their cars to work. Once people get into the subways, the virus will be back.

R364 - I don't think a FULL stay-at-home order in most states will last longer than June 1. It probably should, but we'll see more things "open up." But, as officials talk about the curve being flattened and we see death rates decline, I'd be really cautious once things do open up more. They'll be calls to "still practice safe social distancing and wash your hands and wear a mask" - and many people will abide by these suggestions. But Americans as a collective aren't cut out for this. Once there's any sort of green light to do "more" - a segment of the population will revert back to not taking precautions. We'll see another spike sometime thereafter.

I'm surprised we haven't heard about a legal challenge to stay-at-home order.

The quarantine will not last a year. That's just impossible to do and we won't have an economy left. I think we will be social distancing for that long and we will be wearing masks for the foreseeable future. However I think the sports & entertainment industries will take a massive hit during this time.

[quote] R389: Two people in my Podunk, hillbilly hometown (pop. 5,000) have incredibly been diagnosed positive for Covid-19. I mean, middle of nowhere. How? Are truckers transporting it from state to state? Is it arriving on grocery store items? Internet packages?

There’s no knowing what people do on the down-low; plus, maybe the mail? Influenza in 1918 came in on the mail, so there is that possibility.

[quote] Influenza in 1918 came in on the mail, so there is that possibility.

The Navy is starting to theorize that's how COVID-19 got on the USS Theodore Roosevelt - through the mail & supply delivery systems. They ruled out the shore stop in Vietnam as the culprit because another US Navy ship docked there after the Roosevelt and none of those sailors got sick.

R412 - This is why there will be mandatory mask wearing from now on. And I think that's really the way how to get out of this. Asian countries & communities have adopted wearing masks during colds & flues for years now. Its time the rest of the world adopt it.

[quote] during colds & flues for years now.

If they open the flues and light the fireplace they wouldn’t be cold.

[quote] They ruled out the shore stop in Vietnam as the culprit because another US Navy ship docked there after the Roosevelt and none of those sailors got sick.

Unless they have far more information than that, that’s not enough to rule it out. What if Sailor A was in a different part of town and caught it? Or spoke with someone who had it, but Sailor B from the other ship didn’t?

It’s pretty tenuous when you consider people who work in the same office as a positive person don’t necessarily all get infected.

R400--Agree. I began to prepare for this stay at home chapter in early February once I knew the virus had clusters of infection in Washington....and my college background was in business. Anyone in the infectious disease/epidemiology field would have seen this coming.....and until there is a vaccine, there are only two options.....let the virus run wild and overwhelm the health care systems or initiate some sort of social distancing . I think a lot of people have a hard time with the concept of exponential growth.......but the virus has one mission and that is to replicate. The entire planet is dealing with this and unfortunately, the initial US response was weak and we lost the ability to contain.

Asians also wear masks because of the horrible pollution

How did they develop such horrible pollution?

Rapid industrialization, R422, and heavy use of fossil fuels.

[quote] Influenza in 1918 came in on the mail

Couldn't they have just marked it "Return to Sender"?

[quote]Most colleges and universities are telling their students there will be no fall semester so don’t come

Source please? I love the way people just post this random information without any kind of attribution.

Thank you, r424, I desperately needed that laugh.

Scared the shit out of my cat when I burst out laughing, but he’ll get over it.

^Google it, cunt.

I have a visceral reaction to asshole joggers and pedestrians with no masks. They really should be called out for their selfishness.

My old friend Gabby Hayes likes wearing a mask. He said, "Roy, those folks don't know I don't have any teef."

R428, Unless the asshole joggers are male, hot as fuck and shirtless.

The jury is still out about masks. I tend to think they do little good, unless you're a health care worker who is continuously exposed to the virus. Otherwise there's no much reason to wear one. They don't offer much protection.

R431, they’ll minimize the amount of droplets that come out of your mouth when breathing or speaking. Every little bit counts.

People will be expected to work but not to party. All concerts and sports matches cancelled until a vaccine comes along, which suits me fine.

I'm a bit worried I'm turning into Bart when the school closed due to a teachers' strike.

That briefing today - are they basically saying it's over soon for much of the country?

Someone just flew overhead from East Hampton heading to NYC. It’s the first flight I’ve seen or heard in ages.

R436, Was it Peter Beard?

I think it was Chris Cuomo going back to Southampton.