Eldergays, tell us about Ed Koch

Ed's Cock 101

Ed=Cory

Bess=Rosario

Was deeply closeted - probably gay but was never out at gay bars or in a glass closet. Possibly asexual.

The term 'asexual' is / was new to me until a few years ago. People who prefer friendship over sex. Does anyone know about any printed or online research about this? I have a theory that asexual people were sexually rejected -- not abused -- in their sexual prime, either gay or straight. I want to know more about it.

He grabbed my pussy every time we went out!

There were strong rumors that an asset would procure men for Koch. He would never go out.

He denied he was gay until the end

He had a long term boyfriend who he dumped and disavowed when he started to have a political career. The boyfriend was devastated and felt Koch ruined his life. Koch is a sad closet case who was not a friend to the gay community.

Roy and I were always jealous of Ed and Bess' relationship.

This thread should be good. *pouring a tall drink*

Ed and Bess were our role models.

Shut up, R9!

He always denied it; there was no evidence of it; everyone assumed he was.

He was very discreet about it if he was. Never any confirmations of it from anyone. I think he funneled it all into politics.

He declared that Albany was a "city without a good gay bathhouse." This didn't endear him to upstate voters, so Mario Cuomo defeated him in the 1982 Democratic Primary.

LOL R13

So it seems as if he was just one of those guys who hit a certain age and gave up on sex?

Didn’t he always used to say, “How’m I doin’?”

He had sex with Roy Cohn's castoffs.

Ed Koch was a non-practicing homosexual when he was Mayor if New York. Much later, when asked if he was gay, said that he was too old to have sex therefore he wasn't "anything." This was an improvement over a previous statement that he was a heterosexual when asked.

I don't know. He hated Broadway and would have happily seen all the midtown theaters bulldozed for office buildings and hotels.

Larry Kramer hated his ass....

[quote]He hated Broadway

And yet they wrote a musical about him.

[quote]Larry Kramer hated his ass....

Larry Kramer wasn't exactly beloved.

There was quite the portrayal of him in Shortbus

[quote]There was quite the portrayal of him in Shortbus

That was the only scene in Shortbus that was good. Well acted and very heartfelt.

Yes he was gay and very closeted. Very good friend worked in his administration in the 70s. He was very discrete and like many gay men of his generation ambitious in the mainstream world of business the professions and politics; and expert at living in the closet.

R20, really fun show! I saw it at the Village Gate in 1985. They distributed a handout for audience members not familiar with the characters.

I agree with R1's comparison AND R6's comments AND R17's recollection. I was maybe 10 when Ed Koch was elected Mayor of New York City.

I recall Ed Koch was kind of a beloved mainstream New York City celebrity, getting photographed eating at pizzerias, Jewish delis, Chinatown eateries, soul food joints in Harlem.

Miss America Bess Myerson (no angel herself) was his beard. Mayor Ed Koch would show up for photo ops and social events with Bess Myerson by his side. They never confirmed or denied any rumours. Not confirming or denying anything lead to speculation that they were in fact a couple.

R1's comparison is accurate because for a long time people thought Bess Myerson and Mayor Koch were a legitimate couple, until a legal scandal uncovered that Bess Myerson was not involved with Mayor Koch at all, that she was in a relationship with a married man trying to influence his divorce proceedings.

R6 is correct, Ed Koch did have a boyfriend. Maybe they lived together, but I think Nathan was sort of forced out of NYC when Ed Koch became a political entity. Ed would acknowledge Nathan as an old friend who happened to be out. As with many aspiring politicians, I think Ed's handlers maintained a far distance between Ed and Nathan.

Ed Koch wasn't really a friend to the LGBT community of New York in the 1970s ignoring the AIDS epidemic and discrimination.

R17 has a good memory. Mayor Koch never discussed his private life or his sexuality. But he did have a routine New York humorous schtick response when asked about his private life or his sexuality. Someone would ask him to clarify his sexuality or ask Ed Koch point blank whether he was gay. Ed would offer a few laughs or chuckle, "I'm too busy to have a sex life", OR "I'm too old", OR "Why do people want to know about my personal life?" OR "I'm too tired" OR "I've no time for a relationship". It just became part of his nature to evade.

Doesn't Kramer hate everybody like Arthur Laurents did?

His police guard was always made up of the sexiest Puerto Ricans on the force.

r3, 'asexual' doesn't necessarily mean 'literally zero interest in sex', it CAN mean, 'insufficiently motivated by sex to endure the baggage that (traditionally) goes along with it".

I know a guy who was militantly asexual until he discovered Scruff. The moment he discovered he could have nearly unlimited sex on demand, with about as much effort as ordering a pizza from Domino's, he turned into a complete manwhore who was hooking up with multiple guys per day, to the exclusion of nearly everything else. After a few weeks, he ran into some emotionally-needy guy who tried to complicate his life by shaming him into a relationship he wasn't interested in, and he went back to being asexual again in frustration.

Since that point, he goes back and forth between 'militantly asexual' and 'online total manwhore' every few months. He'll tell you point blank that his interest in sex is inversely proportional to the amount of time and effort he has to expend to get it. When it's easy, he'll fuck almost anyone out of casual boredom. When it requires effort, he loses all interest in it.

R29 Thank you. I always thought 'asexual' meant not interested in sex ever. Your explanation helps broaden that definition for me. I know two people who fit the description.

Ed was a sell out. He did ZERO for his own gay people in NYC.

Hope Hell is Ed's new address.

Ed Koch was a connoisseur of BLACK cock.

The documentary Outrage has a section on Koch. Wiki says he "was a lifelong bachelor, dogged by "endless gay rumors", who publicly denied being gay. Although his record on LGBT issues is generally positive, he is blamed for treating the emerging AIDS pandemic in the gay community reluctantly, unlike the health crises he handled in other situations. New York and San Francisco were the main epicenters of AIDS in the early 1980s. Critics, most notably Larry Kramer, believe Koch handled the AIDS crisis poorly because he was closeted."

"I always thought 'asexual' meant not interested in sex ever."

That's the way I think of it too. Just not having sex is called being celibate. "Asexual" is akin to heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual. Unless the millennials changed the meaning of everything, which is entirely possible. My father's generation used to refer asexuals as "neuter," like their lack of sexual interest affected gender.

East Side YMCA sauna queen according to my older friends he gave amazing head ....and swallowed.

I met him once. Very tall, big guy.

I wonder if he fucked the guy on the left?

Ed Koch was a peanut butter bottom who was into cross dressing!

My dad was an NYPD detective in the 70s. During casual dinner conversation I learned that then candidate Koch was gay, and also that recently deceased VP / Gov Rockefeller was not with his young executive assistant when he suffered his fatal heart attack, but was engaging in light S&M play with a black hooker.

Adele Astaire said that George Gershwin who wrote Broadway musicals for her and her brother was not a heterosexual or a homosexual. She called him a 'neuter.' It was the first time I came across that term.

F U, R10

When was a little kid we lived in New Canaan Ct.. I am not sure if he lived there or his mother did but we used to see him around town with her all of the time and he was always very nice and cheerful. My mother always made a point to tell me that he lived with his mother part time and was very close to her and was asexual. This was the late 80’s.

Let’s just say naming the Queensboro Bridge after him was very appropriate.

He was a good Mayor, and made people proud to be New Yorkers again, and of course you couldn’t get more “New York” than him.

I met him a couple times in the early 90s back when he had started reviewing movies. (One was Pretty Woman, the other is slipping my mind atm).

I think Larry Kramer tells in the Outrage documentary how they lived in the same building and one time when Ed went to pat Larry's dog Larry pulled it away so he could not.

R39, I bet your father witnessed some pretty dark and crazy stuff as a NYC police detective in the 70’s.

Recall reading early in his political career Ed Koch had some sort of Manhattan democratic machine job or appointment where he was present (or even lead) raids on Greenwich Village gay bar like Stonewall. Some patrons knew who he was and would scream or whatever his "T", which likely got them in more trouble.

However most damning thing about Ed Koch and gays was his early response to the rapidly exploding epidemic. As things went from bad to worse still Ed Koch did little to nothing.

[quote] Some patrons knew who he was and would scream or whatever his "T", which likely got them in more trouble.

Come again.

"She called him (George Gershwin) a 'neuter.' It was the first time I came across that term."

Very commonly used term by previous generations for an unmarried man with no visible romantic attachments. Which usually meant he was gay and led a secret life - unbeknownst to the persona using the term.

R48

There's a line in recent television version of "Love In A Cold Climate" where the obviously gay and flamboyant Cedric Hampton enters a drinks party. Two women start gossiping and one says "men like that, my God", the other responds "nature's idea of birth control darling"...

He campaigned with Ethel Merman. I saw them in 1981 in Coney Island when he was running for re-election. Ethel's handbag had giant metal "EM" initials on it. We wondered why.

She did say Gershwin was definitely not heterosexual because if he had been she 'would have known.' I'm not sure how she would have known. I guess knowing everybody in the business she knew none of the beautiful female stars or chorines had ever slept with him. There must have been a lot of talk about that.

[quote] Ethel's handbag had giant metal "EM" initials on it. We wondered why.

You were wondering why Ethel Merman’s bag had the initials EM on it?

Huh?

They do say Ed Koch had a lover, a Mr. Richard Nathan who ended very badly: was harassed, threatened and finally driven out of New York by newly elected mayor Koch. Mr. Nathan died of HIV/AIDS in 1996.

More:

Sorry, wrong link.

disgusting closet case.

a friend lived across the street from him on park, and he'd hold swanky pool parties with pool boys half naked

Best of my knowledge Ed Koch never lived any where near Park Avenue. Washington Square Park yes, but that is different.

IIRC the man moved out of his parents Greenwich Village apartment and into his own rent controlled unit as he began his political career. After leaving mayor's office he moved to lower Fifth Avenue giving up the RC unit.

Helena was a neuter, r48.

R52 We weren't sure if it was to remind her it was her handbag or if she needed the initials to remind her who she was.

By 1981 the Merm wasn't what she'd been - she was losing it.

When you're pretty much universally known, you in effect don't need a name tag saying, "Hello, my initials are EM"

Now I get it, r59.

And this is fucking hilarious:

[quote] We weren't sure if it was to remind her it was her handbag or if she needed the initials to remind her who she was.

[quote] And yet they wrote a musical about him.

There's a musical about Koch?

Jesus. Did you not even read the fucking thread, r61?

I think there is something ascetic and tragic, if not admirable, about people who stay closeted for life, as it appears he did. I don’t think they should be made fun of for that choice.

R59

You just don't have a clue ....

Ladies (and some gentlemen) had one, two or three of their initials monogrammed on all sorts of items going back hundreds of years.

While decorative and in case of needle work also busy work, main object was to mark items for easy identification, especially in cases of loss or theft.

Presumably people know their own names and thus don't need their bed, body, and table linen monogrammed, yet historically all were obviously or discretely. Trunks, luggage, wallets, handbags and other leather goods all historically were monogrammed and or carried some other sort of identifying mark such as coat of arms or crest.

If Ms. Merman was sitting in a restaurant and someone pinched that handbag then tried to leave the premises; if caught (hopefully) all the lady had to do was point to fact her initials were on that bag to show ownership. Unless thief also had same name he or she would have to come up with a good reason for having that bag.

No R64, You just don't have a clue. Monograms are not four inch high gold-toned letters glued to the side of large leather handbag.

I could see them from 100 feet away. Nothing discrete about it.

Gurls, gurls: it's discreetly!

[quote]Discreet means “judicious in one’s conduct or speech, especially with regard to respecting privacy or maintaining silence about something of a delicate nature.” Discrete means something quite different: “apart or detached from others, separate, discontinuous.”

Sorry, but I've been seeing this mix-up so much lately, I just had to say something.

Bless you, R66 and R67

Size really has nothing to do with it; the monograms are there for various purposes regardless if they meet with your approval.

Stitched letters on my vintage linens are three or four inches high, what of it? There is certainly no real reason for such a thing when simple small laundry mark would suffice. But obviously person or persons disagree.

You sound like that insufferable little Mary Haines kid, going around pronouncing things "perfectly ridiculous".

I don't give a shit if it meets your approval or not, fuckface.

I'm a prisspot and you have vintage monogrammed linens?

You just sound like an asshole. Go fuck yourself.

Mayor...the Musical

R53, are you the "MR" troll? Why the fuck are you using it? NO ONE under the age of 85 addresses anyone as "Mr" in the US. It's pretentious and asinine. If you're from another country, TAKE NOTE.

"a friend lived across the street from him on park, and he'd hold swanky pool parties with pool boys half naked"

What people make up. IF Koch had an apt on Park (which he didn't) , he must have been MIGHTY RICH (which he wasn't) to have an apt with a POOL.

He was a car wash cunt.

He hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

If your going to hold a swanky pool part with boys only half naked I'd say what a bore.

What's the point?

[quote] If your going to hold a swanky pool part with boys only half naked I'd say what a bore.

Oh, dear!

corrupt and racist.

R73

Most money Ed Kock made was from his book published after leaving office, IIRC that brought in around 1.5 million or something. For much of his life the guy was a career politician or in appointed offices; none of those jobs paid remotely well enough for him to have Park avenue sort of money.

When he was young, my husband's family went to some political event that Koch attended. There's a picture of his family surrounding the mayor and my husband unconsciously put his hand is on Koch's hip. He brings the photo out every couple of years and we cry from laughing.

R69, size matters, darling.

Big deal R75, he turned me into a newt!

However he identified or didn't identify Ed Koch was attracted to men.

When I was in my early 20s he came on to me very aggressively at the Gristedes on University Place. This was in the late 1990s. In his defense maybe I gave off mixed signals, but I was so flummoxed that a) the former Mayor was hitting on me and b) a 70 year old man who could have been my grandfather was flirting with me.

I've heard of similar stories from a scores of other guys. He liked dick. It was an open secret during his reign.

R83

Knew at least one friend who went to NYU in late 1980's who had a similar experience. In fact it was rather an open secret to any gay guy (especially younger) who lived in Washington Square Park area of Greenwich Village that it was Ed Koch's hunting grounds.

In that respect he was no different than any other elder gay; Ed Koch saw something he fancied and would cruise the guy. Think by the 1990's many young people had no idea who he was anyway, and just put it down to another old perv making a move, which happened all the time to most young gays down there.

WHY haven't any of these guys who succumbed to Koch's charms ever talked?

R39, it wasn't a black hooker. It was Poncheeta Pierce, a WNBC-TV personality. She called her friend Meghan who lived on the same block. Meg dashed over and claimed she was with Rockefeller.

R39, it wasn't a black hooker. It was Poncheeta Pierce, a WNBC-TV personality. She called her friend Meghan who lived on the same block. Meg dashed over and claimed she was with Rockefeller.

Hey R87 - not to hijack the thread, but that’s a twist on the official re-re-revised story I’ve never heard before. Megan M was definitely (one of?) Rocky’s mistress, she was overpaid for an executive assistant & he’d bought her an apartment. PP lived in the same building as MM, and PP had known Rockefeller for a decade. Rocky could have certainly been carrying on with PP at the time, or in the past, as well - the guy was a notorious pussy hound all his life and that was really no secret to the public at large.

The final official version of the story has MM calling PP for help - they lived in a building just down the block from NR’s townhouse /office, and PP called 911 but left the scene before cops arrived. If he was with PP instead that makes a bit more sense - she calls both 911 & her friend to cover for her.

What doesn’t add up in all of the scenarios is the time delay, around an hour, between when he had the heart attack and when PP called 911. If he’d just been having sex with either PP or MM it seems likely that 911 world have been called sooner — so it still seems likely there was more that needed to be removed / stage managed / covered up before calling the cops. Some rumors have Rockefeller trussed up in bondage gear that needed to be removed. Also the initial statement to the press; that he was alone in his Rock Center office, was so full of obvious lies it almost seems designed to be investigated by reporters later.

I think David, who was arguably more powerful than Nelson at that point and the family “fixer,” was the one who orchestrated the machinations that happened during that hour — ensuring whatever very scandalous thing that had actually happened was hidden by the less scandalous manufactured scandal that he was screwing his young (white) assistant MM when he had the heart attack.

I was once in an elevator with him and some of his group. Can't remember exactly where or why. He was a surprisingly big, tall man. No charisma.

R85

Probably one with most to tell was that lover Ed Koch had removed from the scene soon after becoming mayor. He's long since dead now, so that is that.

Recall over the years you'd hear people at Uncle Charlies or some other place claim they knew Ed Koch's "boy" personally. When pressed for details they'd clam up so am guessing it was all BS.

By 1990's until his death don't think many or any of young guys Ed Koch cruised around Washington Square park area/Greenwich Village or elsewhere actually succumbed. Even as a young man EK wasn't very attractive and by this time he had aged into a nebbishy looking old perv. A good number of young guys probably didn't even know who he was and were thinking "get away from me Claude".

That part of Greenwich Village did then have the overflow of young rough/street trade from further east (Astor Place and beyond to East Village). But cannot see EK bringing one of those boys home; he lived in a doorman full service building by that time and it would have drawn attention.

The lover was named Nathan

Ooh, r91, you should’ve started your post with “BREAKING!!!” We didn’t know that.

🙄

I saw him once in a steam room. He was, as said above, very tall and strongly built. A starker as they say in Yiddish. He came across as nebish on TV. On the whole a bad man.

Used to see him at a restaurant on the upper east side regularly in the 3-5 years before he died. I wondered if he had "moved on up" to the East Side because he was there regularly for dinner.

he lived, I think, near NYU, R94, after retirement although perhaps at end he lived uptown. Same building as Larry Kramer who hated him because of Koch's non-action during the AIDS crisis. There is a story that Koch had a retraining order against Kramer who was not allowed to address him directly. So if they were in the elevator together Kramer would say to his dog, "There's the evil man who killed all of daddy's friends. "

[quote] There is a story that Koch had a retraining order against Kramer

What was he trying to teach him to do?

An obvious typo asshole at R96. Or as Koch was heard saying once, in true New Yawk fashion, "fucking asshole."

Jesus, calm down, r97.

It was all in good fun FFS.

[quote] So if they were in the elevator together Kramer would say to his dog, "There's the evil man who killed all of daddy's friends. "

That is really not nice.

R95 that’s so ridiculous because of course it was really Reagan’s fault AIDS got ignored so many years. Even if Koch had supposedly “done more,” things still would have been a mess. There was only so much he could do.

But how in the world is Larry Kramer still alive?

R100

Luck of the draw I suppose.

Mr. Kramer was instrumental in getting laws, rules or whatever that prevented those with HIV/AIDs from getting transplants, so he dodged that bullet along with others and is still with us.

That being said in many ways believe the man is rather bitter that overall not just the gay community but society at large has moved on from HIV/AIDs. The disease is now largely seen a something chronic that can be managed with treatment, and or mostly affects minorities, the poor, etc....

Aside from those like Elton John, the well off power gay classes have largely moved on from AIDS like many others. Last big cause for them was marriage equality, and once that was in the bag they've largely gone back to their lives.

Ed Koch never lived on the UES in his life.

After moving out of his parents apartment he went an apartment on Bedford Street. From there to a rent controlled one bedroom at 14 Washington Square Place.

Finally EK ended up at 2 Fifth Avenue after the Rudin family offered him a sweet deal (yes, the same family that bought Saint Vincent's hospital over on Seventh Avenue). That was Mr. Koch's last apartment and where he lived at time of his death.

Going for dinner on UES or anywhere else beyond GV isn't difficult, one takes a taxi, car or if slumming subway/bus.

In many ways EK was a huge number of not only New York residents of his generation, but ever since right up to modern times; a life long renter.

R102. All true. I guess he hung out a lot on the UES though. The two movies I saw him at were both uptown this was very early 90s — Cinema 1 for Pretty Woman and some other theatre like that for the other movie I’m forgetting (this was when he was a movie critic).

[quote] The two movies I saw him at were both uptown

Oh, dear!

I saw him naked in the locker room at the gym once. My eyes still hurt.

Just be grateful you didn’t go blind, r105.

R101 = the "Mister" troll. Very formal, condescending and out of date using "Mr." Kramer.

"Ed Koch never lived on the UES in his life."

Jews of Koch's age did not live on the UES.