Sweeny Todd Starring Johnny Depp

[quote]I also think he is a below average singer

He made your average goat sound like Pavarotti.

He stinks, literally.

I have not seen the (shudder) Johnny Depp version, but it can't be better than the 1982 filmed version with George Hearn and Angela L. Not possible.

His British accent wasn't any better.

R3 I have to look that up. Everything is elevated by Ms Lansbury

I admit it.

I like this movie.

I enjoyed it. Johnny Depp has an "I can't sing" likable singing voice.

But I like the show and music very much. OP - have you lived under a rock to not know this MAJOR broadway musical by Stephen Sondheim?

The movie is just OK. HBC's sad attempts at singing make Elizabeth Taylor in the ghastly film of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC look good. Carter had no business being in a film where most of the role is sung,but since she's married to the director...

Depp gives a two-note performance. Of course, he sings better than HBC, but most anyone would. But his voice, which might be serviceable in rock, is simply not up to the demands of the score.

Any good stage version will be better. I saw the original cast (Lansbury and Len Cariou, who I actually like more than George Hearn, who replaced Cariou) and also saw Hearn in the mini-Sweeney at the Circle In The Square, and then Brian Stokes Mitchell in a production at the Kennedy Center.

The film consists of warmed-over bits from Tim Burton's other films, especially SLEEPY HOLLOW.

I knew it was a musical, but I thought it was a musical like "the sound of music" where you occasionally get a break from the singing. Not a le miz or evita style musical where EVERYTHING is sung.

OP, I wouldn't call you a philistine.

I would call you a cultural wretch. But your taste save you. The movie is hideous. All the way through.

This is one example of the perfect combination of performer and material.

I couldn’t watch it. It came in tv & Depp & Bonham Carter were so gross I could t stand them.

Off

A masterpiece of a stage musical turned into a absolutely shitty movie.

What R12 said

HBC is one of those women who manage to look dingey and dirty even in her finest clothes. Even as Princess Margaret on "The Crown" you can see that thin film of grease and dust she can never manage to complete scrub away.

I think it's visually splendid, and the orchestrations are beautiful. Their voices are so thin though! It's a shame, especially if you're familiar with either the original or the revival voices. That being said, I was in the bag for Burton back in 07 as a teenaged gayling. I remember going to the midnight showing and leaving the theater pumped. As I've grown, and grown weary of Burton's schtick, its flaws have come to the surface. I'm still able to enjoy aspects of it.

Timothy Spall's properly over the top and Alan Rickman's legitimately great! There's something about Sacha Baron Cohen's performance. He probably kills it... and maybe he should have played Sweeney? But if that happened, the entire film would need a tonal redux. You know who I read auditioned? Toni Collette. What a shame! But honestly the industry should have known which actors were gonna get the lead roles.

Yes, R12, but the movie of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC is even worse, in spite of Diana Rigg as Charlotte.

R15 Oh Toni would have been much better!! I have grown weary of Burton, once his rampant misogyny and racism was pointed out to me I couldn't not notice it. And when interviewed about it, he is pretty open about not giving a shit whether the public likes it or not. As long as he's making money he doesn't give a shit about offending anyone.

The film could have been so much better with better leads - But it could have been a lot worse than it was.. The problems were ultimately all Burton's fault. He cut down the roles of Anthony and Johanna to the point where no one cares about them -And that means you stop caring about the story at the climax.

Even worse was his dishonest advertising for the show, which gave the impression it wasn't a musical. Lot's of people walked out when the singing didn't stop after three or four minutes. Sweeney was a go-big-or-go-home piece that Burton tried to play both ways...

R18 They have bigger roles on the stage production? That makes sense, I felt like that whole storyline was shoehorned in. A thin plotline to justify the gore and murder. It definitely needed fleshing out.

The one saving grace is that the young man playing Anthony was extremely handsome and he and Joanna had better singing voices than the leads.

Betsy Joslyn in Sweeney Todd gives the worst performance in any recorded Sondheim musical. She singlehandedly sabotages the production.

The young lovers are thankless roles. Who cares! More slasherism please!

The film looks great, the orchestrations are lovely, but it just a good deal of the score and Depp and Carter aren't very good singers. Even worse, they've been directed to play their characters as one-dimensional and constantly depressed. Carter probably had a good Mrs. Lovett in here, but she's not directed to play her the way she's written - as brassy and loud mouthed. Instead, she looks like she's about to kill herself during every scene.

Depp and Carter don't have awful voices, but they're both on the thin side. They hit the notes (sometimes, just barely) but don't have a lot of power in their voices. Toni Collette really would have been much better, although thank God we lost out on Russell Crowe's Sweeney. He'd been attached at some point.

R21 is right. But it's still better than Johnny Depp doing Sondheim.

[R21] I've always hated her shrill voice. The Broadway original, Sarah Rice, was lovely and had a beautiful voice.

R25, it's not just her voice, she really uses her facial expressions like she's possessed. When she sings "are you screaming", you almost expect pea soup to come streaming out of her mouth.

This really made me laugh. A sped up Betsy Joslyn to a chibi. She really sounds insane here but even at this speed you can hear how lousy her singing is.

Yikes! The speeding up really points out her pitch problems!

I used to think Betsy Joslyn and Lysette Anthony were the same people for years.

There are videos out there of Joslyn as a replacement for The Witch in the original production of Into the Woods and her demented, twitchy acting works for that role. I remember her being pretty decent in the clips I saw, but she really is terrible as Johanna.

Possessed Johanna

I like her Johanna. She’s as twittery as the birds - I think it serves the story well that Antony and Johanna are buffoons instead of the expected tortured Romeo and Juliet.

Sweeney Todd is one of my favourite musicals, but I can't bear this movie. I suppose when something is your favourite you're going to be hypercritical. But I'm usually pretty good at accepting change from stage to movie if it's done well. In this case, it's done terribly. I can't stand Depp's and Bonham Carter's voices, they remove some of the best songs ("Kiss Me" is brilliant and funny) and I don't like Burton's usual cartoonish look to the piece. I would love it if it was remade in the future more faithfully. They really need people who love the originals to be involved in these movie adaptations of musicals. If Burton does love Sweeney Todd he did a great job of hiding it.

It was good but so gross it was hard to watch.

Sweeney is my favorite Sondheim musical,, and I first saw it with Landsbury & Hearn in 1979. I've also seen the Staunton/Ball production in London.

The film is a travesty. Burton should have not been attached to it, and Depp/HBC are among the worst casting decisions in musical films. Liz Taylor could not sing Desiree, but at least she could act it.

I've worn out one DVD of the Hearn/Landsbury production (and bought another off of eBay). I was gifted the Tim Burton Sweeny and watched it only once. I was also gifted the film soundtrack (from the same friend who knows I love Sweeney) and have not even taken the cellophane off of the CD. I cannot think of anyone I dislike so much as to regift that unopened CD.

It is not like Sweeney Todd is some obscure musical. It gets produced constantly and the Lansbury/Hearn video was played frequently on cable. Plus the concert version also ran a good deal on cable. The show has been produced in opera houses, which is a pretty good indication that it is sung through.

Even if you did the usual quick google search before going to the movie, how could you not know it was sung through?

When the movie came out, a bunch of people on DL said they went to a screening and towards the end, whenever anyone sang, the audience groaned. Once, someone said "you mean she's going to sing again?"

That reminds me a bit of when Chicago came out. I hadn't seen it but a friend had and she said she didn't like it because they sang too much. "I thought it was going to be more like The Sound of Music" is what she said. I suppose the biggest musicals my generation were exposed to as children were the Disney ones like "The Little Mermaid", "Aladdin" and "The Lion King", so a lot of people aren't used to sung-through musicals. But it does always crack me up when people go to musicals and complain about there being too much singing. That's kinda the point!

I love musicals, the only time I have a bit of an issue with the ones that are all sung are that some of the dialogue pieces sound so ridiculous when sung. Rent is one of the worst for this (well, it's just the worst anyway you look at it, in my opinion). Those answer phone messages make me cringe.

Back to Sweeney Todd, someone has uploaded a filming of the original cast from 1979. It's just from the audience, but surprisingly good quality considering the time. Interesting as it contains some of the original stuff that was cut out and fixed up.

R37, the movie wasn't advertised as a musical. If anything, it was hidden. So audiences went in, especially young audiences, not knowing it was a musical.

Sondheim said he loves it. I think the movie removes too much of the comedy. And the movie is just way to bloody.

Helena Bonham Carter is good, but I don't think she was right for Mrs. Lovett.

Which one was that R38? Sweeney Todd do you mean? I don't remember that one being advertised, but I know Chicago was advertised as a musical. I can imagine people thinking Sweeney Todd was just a Tim Burton film and being surprised by all the singing I guess. Particularly when it was of as poor a quality as Depp's and Bonham Carter's.

Here is a clip of Megan Mullally singing "Johanna" from some album she did. I enjoy this version. It really makes you aware of how creepy the lyrics are.

R39, I totally agree. The comedy is vital for the musical or it's just a miserable experience. I mean what happens to Lucy is nightmare inducing enough and that is all covered in the first 20 minutes as it is. Removing the comedy is such a shame. And the movie keeps in the humorous pieces like "The Worst Pies in London" and "A Little Priest" and "By the Sea" but manages to tone down all the comedy from them.

R41 Right, and Mrs. Lovett goes from being this kind of eccentric, kooky, evil/fun character to just being dour and expressionless. It's a shame.

R17 What rampant misogyny and racism?

[quote] Sondheim said he loves it. I think the movie removes too much of the comedy. And the movie is just way to bloody.

I don't think you can have a "Sweeney Todd" that is "way too bloody." That's pretty much a contradiction in terms.

I would have liked CHICAGO more if it hadn't been edited with a Quisinart, MTV style.

I saw the original cast on Broadway in 1979. I was a young teenager. All these years (and shows) later, it is still the most magnificent live show I have ever seen. Incredible score and cast. Nothing comes close, and I've seen a lot. The movie was a travesty. Now, I like Depp and Burton (in other films) but they were just wrong on every level. I saw the film once in the theater and I could barely stand it. The original cast is the only way to go. Just listen to the CD. At least we have that.

[quote]R40 I enjoy this [Mullally] version. It really makes you aware of how creepy the lyrics are.

Oh my goodness - that’s great!

Reminds me of the stalkerish reinterpretation of THIS song:

R17 I haven't seen many of Burton's films (just the Batman movies and Edward Scissorhands when I was a child), but is he really misogynist and racist?

I liked the film for what it was, although HBC’s weak vocals undercut it severely.

R49 It looks like it never got off the ground.

Saw the original Broadway production 7 times. Saw Hearn twice. Cariou was much better. Hearn starts at 8 and goes to 10. Cariou starts at 5 and goes to 11. His rage was truly terrifying. Later I worked on 3 productions of this show. I know this show inside out.

I have a lot of complaints about the film. My biggest is the missing chorus. Oh how I missed the chorus.

The kid who played Toby was great.

[quote]Even if you did the usual quick google search before going to the movie, how could you not know it was sung through?

Perhaps the OP is only familiar with the non-musical adaptions of the story, before Sondheim got involved. There's been several.

Just checked out a clip from this. They have completely neutered "God, That's Good!" which is a fantastic Act 2 opener on stage. I'm fascinated by how many people in the comments love the singing in this. Perhaps my ears are broken, but I couldn't sit through an entire movie with this type of singing in it.

If you are nerdy enough to know 19th century melodrama, you probably know that the version of the story most produced in contemporary times is a musical.

One should never value the opinion of the author, R39. There's a reason they're not critics.

There is nothing good to say about the acting, direction and general interpretation of the text in this movie. In fact, if you pegged someone as a likely Sondheim fan and you sent them to this as their first experience, you could pretty well guarantee they wouldn't be up for any more.

That's aside from the fact that the British more often than not have a tin ear for what makes a Broadway musical tick (the NT Follies is a rare exception).

[quote] I was also gifted the film soundtrack (from the same friend who knows I love Sweeney) and have not even taken the cellophane off of the CD. I cannot think of anyone I dislike so much as to regift that unopened CD.

As long as you already own it, you might as well play the overture/credit sequence, which is wonderful

Mostly because no one attempts to sing during it

The musical of Sweeney Todd is nothing without the chorus.

My experience is different because unlike most on this thread I saw the movie first and I really liked, particularly HBC. I started listening to the soundtrack and be became fascinated with some of the songs (little priest, pies). It turned me into someone who didn’t much like musicals into a Sondheim fan.

Having now seen the other versions, I totally understand the criticism. I remember being shocked by Lansbury comedic Mrs Lovett. I still like the movie, , it is a different and darker view. Mrs Lovett is more one note, definitely, but is also more tragic and sympathetic so some of her actions are even more shocking. Here you truly feel she is in live with Todd (less so in the musical).

Many, if not most, Sondheim fans don't really like musicals, R58. There's Sondheim, and then you fall off a cliff and find everyone else.

Whereas many people who love musicals don't like Sondheim. He's not tuneful enough, his lyrics are "too clever": I'm not entertaaaained, enough. Etc.

Generalize much?

I have several sounds from this soundtrack. Overall it's considered by some to be one of Burton's best films. Johnny Depp is actually better than anticipated in his singing role. He is not a professionally trained singer- he did damn well for an actor who can sing. The entire cast was great. It's probably my favorite Sondheim score. If you're going to compare it to a theatrical production, you're not going to enjoy it for what it is. Depp is dark and menacing as Todd. I cheered when Perelli finally bit the dust. HBC is fun as the gin-soaked, addled Mrs. Lovett. You feel for her in her musical fantasy "By The Sea". Yes, Johanna and Antony are the better singers, so?

Angela discusses...

Ange playing opposite Depp is really something that should have been more seriously considered.

We had a long thread at IMDb about Our Sequel, complete with songs. Mrs. Lovett survived the fire but was an oozing, scarred pile of scar tissue, kind of like a blobfish. I think her number was “Crisp Me”. Then I believe she tried to resurrect Todd’s ghost via vodoo with Tobias’ help.

AND she gave birth to Sweeney Todd’s baby. His ghost did return, but only to try to groom the infant into a machination of revenge. Anthony and Joanna adopted the wee babe, then noticed strange goings-on in the nursery....

I forget the rest. (Maybe Mrs. Mooney was hired as wet nurse?)

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

R65 What a stupid article! Not every script needs to be cast with black/Asian/Latino/Whatever. I'm Latino and i think it's demeaning to the script. When will this madness end? Whites are still the great majority. Blacks are only 12% of the population and Latinos 18% per cent. All this backlash is just white liberals, mainly white women, trying to seem 'woke.' Well, I would take them more seriously if they created new roles for people of color instead of rehashing and casting POC in traditionally white roles. Now, THAT is insulting!

Do you guys think HBC's singing got better for the Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo track in Cinderella's real life action movie during the end credits? Branagh, Helena's ex, made his Cinderella version musical free.

I HATE this movie. I HATE it because I love "Sweeney Todd"! Its my favorite stage musical, I've seen several stage productions and worn out my cast album!

Every single stage production I've seen is lively and weird and funny and horrifying and has great music... and the movie has none of those things. The production is flat, the performances are lifeless, and the music is... ruined. Tim Burton should be ashamed, I'd thought the show was director-proof, but he proved me wrong! I've seen community theater directors do better.

Dame Angela should have won the Emmy for the recorded version in the 80s. They gave it to her inferior co-star instead.

R66, not every script needs to be cast with black/Asian/Latino/Whatever, but even fewer need to be cast with white actors. Even so white actors are cast, even when the character does not need to be white.

Blacks are only 12% of the population and Latinos 18% per cent. But if you look at film and television, leading roles are still over 80% white.

So maybe we should aim for 12% black and 18% Latino?